1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,960 Welcome to Sheeper Assisted. I'm your host Sadie Sutton, a 19 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,440 year old from the Bay Area studying psychology at the 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,000 University of Pennsylvania. Sheeper Assisted is the teen 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,880 mental health podcast made for teenagers by a teen. 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,120 In each episode I'll bring you authentic, accessible and 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,440 relatable conversations about every aspect of mental Wellness 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,000 you can expect. Evidence based teen approved 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,040 resources, coping skills including lots of DBT insights 9 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:28,680 and education, and each piece of content you consume. 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,439 She Persisted offers you a safe space to feel validated and 11 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:35,160 understood in your struggle while encouraging you to take 12 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:37,440 ownership of your journey and build your life worth living. 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,720 So let's dive in. This week on She Persisted. 14 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:46,640 One of the things that is most critical in the work around 15 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:51,600 generational trauma is to 1st work on regulating the nervous 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,040 system. With that, you are creating an 17 00:00:55,040 --> 00:01:00,240 emotional foundation of greater strength to be able to then do 18 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,840 some of the digging. Work into those past wounds in a 19 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,360 way where you don't feel like you're trying to crawl out of 20 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,800 your own skin because you feel so incredibly emotionally 21 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,800 overwhelmed. Hello, hello and welcome back to 22 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,160 She Persisted. I'm so excited you guys are here 23 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,320 today. It has been a crazy couple of 24 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:22,040 weeks, almost have grad school apps submitted, but things are 25 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,240 busy busy. Hence the adjusted release 26 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,000 schedule of She persisted. But we have a really exciting 27 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,240 conversation today that I know you guys are going to love and 28 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,840 learn so much from. We have Doctor Marielle Bouquet 29 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,160 on the podcast. She is a first generation Black 30 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,680 Dominican psychologist, a world renowned intergenerational 31 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,440 trauma expert. She's the author of Break the 32 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,840 Cycle and she is a Columbia professor. 33 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,160 We talked about so many things in this episode, but I really 34 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:54,960 wanted to make this episode like a foundational first stop shop. 35 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,520 Everything you need to know about what generational trauma 36 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,680 is, how that might apply to you, how you can support others 37 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,960 navigating generational trauma, and I really hope you would get 38 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:06,960 that. In this interview, we talked 39 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,919 about what generational trauma is, how it works, if it varies 40 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,200 by siblings, how being born with generational trauma can affect 41 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:16,960 you, ways to prevent it from negatively impact affecting you. 42 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:19,200 What it means to break the cycle. 43 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,360 Supporting others when they're navigating their own journeys, 44 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,600 navigating those intense emotions that can arise when you 45 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:29,360 are doing the work to break the cycle, how to lower stress and 46 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,680 boost emotional safety, and then also where to begin if you are 47 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,880 breaking trauma cycles. So really everything you need to 48 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,240 know to start your journey is in this episode. 49 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,640 And this was just such an incredible conversation. 50 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,080 So grateful to have had this conversation with Doctor Bouquet 51 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,680 and I hope you guys love this as much as I did. 52 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,360 We'll dive in. But as you guys know, if you 53 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,840 enjoy the episode, share with a friend or family member, tag me 54 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,160 that she persists to podcast all the things. 55 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,600 I hope you guys are having a good fall. 56 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:03,000 And with that, let's dive in. Thank you so much for coming on 57 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,000 Sheep Assisted. I'm so excited for this 58 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,360 conversation and to pick your brain about all things 59 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,600 intergenerational trauma. I think it's something that 60 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,440 young adults are starting to become aware of, but it's not 61 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,120 something that they fully understand. 62 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,960 So I'm really excited to get your insight and expertise in 63 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,960 this conversation. And I'm so excited to join you 64 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,120 in this conversation, especially, you know, in in 65 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:27,240 talking about the incoming generation and ways that we 66 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,760 could proactively learn about generational trauma. 67 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,280 So thank you for having me. Of course, to get things 68 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,800 started, I would love to hear a little bit about your background 69 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,360 and how you came to be an expert in generational trauma and work 70 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,400 in the mental health space. Yeah. 71 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,040 You know, working in the mental health space is actually 72 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,880 something that happened a little bit more by happenstance. 73 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:53,520 I was volunteering while I was still an ad executive in New 74 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,520 York for a couple years. And in that volunteer work, I 75 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,840 actually realized that being able to help folks from the 76 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:03,320 perspective of mental health was an option which I didn't 77 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:07,320 actually know prior to. And it was something that, you 78 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,400 know, it just became cemented in me of wanting to do. 79 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,320 But Fast forward into when I was then getting my clinical 80 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:18,399 training, a lot of the training and a lot of the clients that I 81 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,440 had the pleasure of working with was centralized around trauma 82 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,800 and centralized around generational trauma. 83 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,360 But we were actually not using that language because it's such 84 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:32,120 a new language within the field of mental health that we weren't 85 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,320 necessarily like really understanding that that's what 86 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,480 we were working with in the room. 87 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,040 We in essence, just thought, OK, there's this person that's been 88 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,920 depressed for decades, but not really realizing that there's a 89 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,040 root to that depression. There's something that's 90 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:50,040 happening that's feeding the depression and not allowing it 91 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,040 to subside. And so that's when I started 92 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,640 becoming really curious about what else is there that we're 93 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,920 not naming and we're not working through that. 94 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:02,400 That's going to be really essential to create sustainable 95 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,720 healing. For people that are not familiar 96 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,480 with generational trauma, can you explain to us how that 97 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,200 works, how far back it goes? And then we'll talk about 98 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,760 breaking that cycle. But how do you define 99 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,280 generational trauma? Yeah, generational trauma is the 100 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,160 only type of trauma that can actually be passed down the 101 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,440 family line, as far as we know. And it happens at the 102 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:29,200 intersection of our biology and our psychology, meaning that 103 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:33,800 within our biology, we can have a parent or two grandparents, 104 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,760 great grandparents and distant ancestors who have actually 105 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,520 suffered traumas within their own lifetimes. 106 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,880 And if that trauma had not found a point of resolution to to some 107 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:50,160 extent, to an extent that they were able to live in greater 108 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,760 peace than not, then it's likely that it could have shown up in 109 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,160 their genetic encoding in their gene expressions. 110 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,080 This is where we kind of like have an understanding of the 111 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,800 seals of epigenetics, which means that our social 112 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,320 environments can actually drive our genes to turn on or off 113 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,480 specific tags depending on what's happening to us. 114 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,280 And if all of that is happening right, then these gene 115 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:16,680 expressions transition, they change. 116 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:22,120 And upon conception, the next generation that inherits gene 117 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,320 messaging that is reflective of the pains of the past. 118 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,000 And now Fast forward to everything that happens after 119 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:30,760 we're born. This is where the psychology 120 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,280 part comes in. And if we're born into a home, 121 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:36,640 maybe where there's emotional chaos, it's rampant and 122 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,160 relentless. Or if we have a parent or two 123 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,920 who themselves are living in trauma and aren't really 124 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,440 attuning to us. Or if we have, you know, an 125 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,400 experience of bullying in school. 126 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,160 Or if we have a turbulent relationship that has toxic 127 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,920 elements. Or if we have a pandemic that we 128 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,240 had to struggle through and really suffered a number of 129 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,480 losses through it. All of this then factors into 130 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,720 our psychology and what now with this, you know, emotional 131 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:04,680 vulnerability that is biological. 132 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,840 It can get triggered into being a trauma response and then 133 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:11,320 making us now the new bearer of generational trauma. 134 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:17,160 For listeners that have siblings, is generational trauma 135 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,720 going to be consistent for each child or is it more dependent 136 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,360 on, like you said, that psychology, those subjective 137 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,440 experiences of what people go through? 138 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,480 What an excellent question. I really appreciate discussion. 139 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,800 And although we don't have really a ton of like sibling 140 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,560 studies, there's a lot of studies like in the field of 141 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,880 psychology, which I'm I'm sure you already know, that have twin 142 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,520 studies especially. And twin studies are used in 143 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,800 order to really kind of have an understanding of what transpired 144 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,760 that could have impacted one child versus the other. 145 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,640 But what you're saying is indeed true. 146 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,720 A person's circumstances and their own capabilities will 147 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:01,520 factor into how a person internalizes trauma versus not 148 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,960 because we can have one sibling that is in a really turbulent 149 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:12,360 and dysfunctional relationship that could upend their life and 150 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,520 the other sibling have a series of healthy relationships that 151 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,120 don't actually trigger that trauma response. 152 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,920 So it is contingent upon the person's social environment. 153 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,720 But what we do know is that biologically, it is likely that, 154 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,760 you know, two individuals coming from the same womb and the same 155 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,960 kind of genetic makeup could have a similar genetic or at 156 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:40,200 least like biological process. I'm curious what this looks like 157 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:43,280 if you are like, aware that you have a history of generational 158 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,600 trauma in your family. When we hear trauma, we often 159 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,760 think of PTSD, or we think of doing trauma work or unlearning 160 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,520 these belief systems. But if generational trauma is in 161 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,840 the picture, are people more likely to be depressed or 162 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,160 anxious? Does it show up in 163 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,440 relationships? Maybe it's emotional 164 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,760 sensitivity? What are you like, predisposed 165 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,360 for? I guess that would be the best 166 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,160 way to explain it if generational trauma is something 167 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,440 that's in the equation. You know what we look at 168 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,920 generational trauma. We're not only looking at those 169 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,400 biological vulnerabilities, which of course, you know, could 170 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:19,600 make us predisposed to a host of things. 171 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,120 But the the ones that we have, the more concrete research on is 172 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,760 the predisposition to PTSD. Which means that there is a 173 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:33,760 likelihood that the hormonal makeup that is in our bodies, 174 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,840 even upon birth, that that is already structured a certain way 175 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,440 to make it so that we may experience stress more potently 176 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,920 and therefore potentially have that transform into PTSD 177 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,520 symptoms in our lifetime. Now, when it comes to 178 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,120 generational trauma, there's also, like I mentioned, that 179 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,680 psychological aspect of it. So we're also looking at the 180 00:09:56,680 --> 00:10:00,360 ways in which there's been potentially modeling within a 181 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:04,040 person's home where there may have been one or two or several 182 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,200 family members that have actually had, let's say, 183 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,680 codependent qualities. And those codependent qualities 184 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:12,680 were modeled. And because they were modeled, 185 00:10:12,680 --> 00:10:16,920 especially at such a young age where we're ingesting socially, 186 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,240 you know, kind of how to be based on what we're seeing the 187 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:25,320 adults do and say in our environment, then it's a greater 188 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,880 likelihood that we'll have that, you know, PTSD symptomatology. 189 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,040 But coupled with that, we'll also have codependent qualities. 190 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,640 And the same goes for a host of other kinds of interpersonal 191 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:42,640 qualities that are also situated in, you know, relational trauma 192 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,760 especially. Before we get into breaking the 193 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,720 cycle and doing the work so that this pattern of generational 194 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:53,600 trauma doesn't continue, would love to know what your thoughts 195 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,920 are on. I guess preventative work would 196 00:10:55,920 --> 00:11:00,120 be the question, Like if you aren't necessarily experiencing 197 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,840 similar patterns of codependency or you aren't seeing symptoms of 198 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,560 PTSD, but you're aware that there's a history of 199 00:11:07,560 --> 00:11:09,200 generational trauma in your family. 200 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,000 Are there certain like resilience factors that can make 201 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:17,480 you less likely to experience these kind of, I guess, examples 202 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,080 of generational trauma in your own life, Things that you can 203 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,440 do, whether it's relationships or coping skills, belief 204 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,320 systems, things like that? Excellent question. 205 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:34,520 So one of the most important and effective mitigating factors 206 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,920 against trauma surfacing in our lives, especially when we're 207 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,560 still children, is to have at least one adult in our lives 208 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:47,160 that is persistently there, present and supportive. 209 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,640 So even if we have that experience of that bully in 210 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,360 school, that there is someone that's there who we can have a 211 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,360 candid conversation with who can also show us that they can 212 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,160 protect us and help us. So it's really important to note 213 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,720 that because the relationship that we have with a safe person 214 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:13,600 can really be helpful in us not then obtaining symptomatology 215 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,400 for the long term. But there are also a number of 216 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,120 different things that we can be doing both as a society and as 217 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,040 individuals in order to help mitigate trauma or to at least 218 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,360 ensure that we're getting ahead of it. 219 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,080 First and foremost, really kind of as a society, I think it's 220 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:35,160 really critical that we start having very candid and 221 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,240 intentional conversations about how to talk about trauma in the 222 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,800 school system, in health Ed, in other aspects of, you know, 223 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,600 sometimes we're like in history lessons and we're not talking 224 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,000 about the trauma that has been suffered by the individuals that 225 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,040 were a part of that historical event. 226 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,200 And so things like that, that that I think can be incredibly 227 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,720 helpful in US obtaining the language prior to even ever 228 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,080 needing it is a part of that proactive, you know, kind of 229 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,840 like agenda that I think is really essential from the 230 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,080 perspective of, you know, an individual. 231 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,800 One of the things that we have not been taught to do is to have 232 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,160 body attunement since we're little and very often you see, 233 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,520 especially right now, I think us millennials are are definitely 234 00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:28,560 in a place where we are enacting a lot of ways to actually help 235 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:33,560 us to absolve the pains of the past by tuning into our bodies 236 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:37,000 for the first time. Because we were never taught in 237 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,960 the education system with within our homes, no one's ever taught 238 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,800 us to have body awareness, body attunement and body regulation 239 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,800 practices within our day-to-day. And I think it's such a 240 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,880 disservice that you know it. I can't even call it a 241 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,520 disservice because quite frankly, somatic psychotherapy 242 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,200 and somatics in and of itself hasn't really made its way into 243 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,720 the Western world until really very recently. 244 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,320 But I think that what we can do with that information, with the 245 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,480 understanding that that can be a helpful set of practices that 246 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,920 can really help a person to gain like emotional resilience. 247 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,840 I think that we can have greater conversations about it to 248 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,920 intersperse it into our daily lives, make it more of a 249 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,840 lifestyle change that we could TuneIn with our bodies when 250 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,200 we're having a conversation and see how we're taking in that 251 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,400 conversation from an emotional perspective. 252 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:30,000 If we could do more of that, even in a proactive way, it can 253 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,480 be incredibly helpful in helping us to feel more settled within 254 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:40,760 our own emotional experiences. Yeah, so breaking the cycle, I 255 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,400 think this is one of the things that people are probably most 256 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,320 aware of because it's quite a hot topic on social media. 257 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,880 I was on TikTok yesterday. You've probably seen this before 258 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,160 where it's like you have the three glasses and it's 259 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,680 grandmother, mother, child, and then you're like pouring the 260 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,120 water and it's like this is you breaking the cycle. 261 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,840 Everyone is is talking about this, but I think there isn't as 262 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,560 much of A nuanced understanding of what this actually means and 263 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,120 what that that work looks like and what that impact looks like 264 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,120 for future generations. So for people that aren't 265 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,640 familiar, what does it mean to break the cycle? 266 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,800 And is that possible? Because we did talk about this 267 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,960 biological piece. Yeah. 268 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,120 You know, breaking the cycle means that you are going through 269 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,640 the number of patterns that are present not only in your family, 270 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:30,040 but many times in your community and even in the larger society 271 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:35,880 and deciding to actually take on the really, really arduous and 272 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,880 complicated task of no longer perpetuating those cycles 273 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,840 forward. And that can mean a host of 274 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,440 things, right? But cycle Breakers just know 275 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:49,600 that the status quo of how things have been can no longer 276 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,760 be maintained and things need to change. 277 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,760 So if that status quo is that, you know, hitting kids in the 278 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:00,840 home being just a cultural norm or, or even a family norm, 279 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,440 understanding for yourself that that is no longer a norm, that 280 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,400 will be persistent within your family line because you are 281 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,080 cutting the cord. You are breaking the cycle of 282 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,920 hitting children and, and sending them into, you know, a 283 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:17,040 psychological spiral. So it, it can look like that and 284 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,680 it can look like, you know, kind of in a, in a more community 285 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,480 based way. It can also look like maybe 286 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,920 educating community members on the fact that physical 287 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,640 retribution upon a child can actually have very long standing 288 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,800 effects. And it isn't, you know, helpful 289 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,160 or healing or even conducive of learning, which is usually what 290 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,240 people want for a child to change their behavior and learn 291 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,720 alternate behaviors. And their brain is, is not 292 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,480 actually comprehending that because their brain is in 293 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,280 survival mode. So, you know, there, there are 294 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,640 ways that we can kind of enact break the cycle protocol within 295 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,840 our own life from an interpersonal or family based 296 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,720 perspective by looking at the patterns that we wish to disrupt 297 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,400 within our families. But we can also extend that 298 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,640 forward into our communities. We can do like some of the 299 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,040 volunteer work that I did, right? 300 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,560 And like do psycho education to community members in community 301 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,680 members could even be your friends, right? 302 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,160 And just like sharing details with your friends, like, oh, I 303 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,400 read this book or I heard this podcast and it was really 304 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,599 informative as to, you know, the ways that I need to enact change 305 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:19,839 within my own life. Maybe this is something that's 306 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,599 applicable to your life and to your family. 307 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:24,960 Let's talk about it. And that's already community 308 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:26,800 work because you're extending the work forward. 309 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,680 So it's really important for us to consider those different 310 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,400 layers of how we can break cycles. 311 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,960 I'm really curious about how this looks when you have a close 312 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,520 relationship with your family, but you're also trying to do 313 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,520 this work. You've spoken to so many people 314 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,480 about this. You have, I'm sure, supported 315 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,720 many people through this process as well. 316 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,840 Are there challenges that arise when one individual is trying to 317 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,080 break a cycle? And I'm sure parents perceive it 318 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:57,320 as like you're saying I did something wrong or you're saying 319 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,160 that I've failed as a parent. I'm sure there's tension that 320 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,800 arises there, especially if maybe the child is really ready 321 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,680 to do the work. The parent isn't in the same 322 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,840 headspace. How do you recommend that people 323 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,000 navigate that? Yeah. 324 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,280 You know, this is one of the toughest parts of breaking 325 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,640 cycles. It's like having the difficult 326 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,440 conversations with people that we love, who we wish to maintain 327 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,760 a relationship with, but who we understand has also potentially 328 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,560 perpetuated harm, even if they weren't aware of the fact that 329 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,400 their own behaviors were harmful. 330 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:33,800 And one of the things that you just said is actually a guiding 331 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,160 post in those conversations, which is us being able to say 332 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,120 and acknowledge. I know you did the best you 333 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:42,760 could. I know that you had only a 334 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:48,200 limited amount of tools. And I had this vast Internet and 335 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,240 the podcast world and books and language and research studies 336 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,000 that are prominent right now in my generation. 337 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,960 And all of these hosts of tools and skills and therapy that 338 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,120 actually helped to reorient me around how to behave differently 339 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:06,200 in a way that isn't as harmful as it has been within our 340 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,720 family. And I think that what can also 341 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,000 be helpful is being able to, again, with that elements of 342 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,680 compassion, being able to say, I can tell that you suffered a lot 343 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,320 in your childhood too. I can tell that something 344 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,800 happened that was hurtful and harmful and not helpful. 345 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:26,800 And you know, my heart is open to listening. 346 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,600 And I think that that's the bridge, right? 347 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,640 Like these are the things that can actually create healthy 348 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,680 conversation, rather than the conversation feeling like it's 349 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,640 pointing fingers in any direction because that's just 350 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,240 going to erect walls and everybody's going to feel 351 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:47,120 invalidated, not supported, and not seen in the conversation. 352 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,880 Yeah. I think one thing that can be 353 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,560 challenging about this conversation that maybe people 354 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,200 are less excited about having these conversations on a 355 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,200 day-to-day basis. Obviously we still have a lot of 356 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,600 mental health stigma, so. We're not having these 357 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,200 conversations in line at Starbucks or whatever it is. 358 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,920 But I also think there's that element of we all have these 359 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,000 different families of origins and lived experiences. 360 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,680 And like you were saying, there can be that gap that needs to be 361 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,360 bridged between, OK, I didn't necessarily have that lived 362 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:19,040 experience, but I want to support you in doing this work 363 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,640 and I'd love to understand and I'd love to be there as a 364 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,960 support system. Do you have any advice for 365 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,880 people who are in that position where maybe they have a friend 366 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,440 or an extended family member or significant other who is going 367 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:33,960 through this work? They're trying to break 368 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,120 generational trauma, but this person maybe doesn't have the 369 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:40,600 family of origin with a similar experience, or they just can't 370 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,680 pull from their own experiences when validating and empathizing. 371 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:49,320 Yeah, I find that it can be incredibly helpful to create a 372 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,680 community, even if the community is a one person community and 373 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:59,280 meaning like another person with you that can actually hear you 374 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,720 out, understand your journey, potentially walk that journey 375 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,360 with you. I oftentimes speak to even the 376 00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:11,320 ways that when I entered this work as a human, as a person, as 377 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,880 me, as Mariel rather than Doctor Mariel, helping others to walk 378 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:21,400 through this path when I was doing it myself, I decided to be 379 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:25,240 a cycle breaker, Co cycle breaker with my sister and with 380 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,280 my best friend. And separately, I would have 381 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:33,080 conversations with each of them about some elements of breaking 382 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:37,600 cycles, some way in which I was experiencing triggers from the 383 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,480 people around me that perhaps weren't ready to change and how 384 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,760 I could then find my way back to peace. 385 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:48,840 And I think that that was helpful to have that support 386 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,080 system. But the added bonus was that 387 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,960 because they were also breaking cycles, that I was also being 388 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,200 helpful to them. So it was very Co regulating in 389 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,000 a healthy, interdependent and not codependent way, while also 390 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,160 being very informative and in healthy and safe conversations 391 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,520 with people that I love and trust who were also willing to 392 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,680 go into that the spaces of vulnerability for themselves. 393 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,040 But even for me and with me to be able to break cycles together 394 00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:19,000 together. I oftentimes tell people, if you 395 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,760 can find a Co healing partner, by all means, please, you know, 396 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,360 walk the path with them, share the resources with them. 397 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:30,080 If you're listening to podcasts, listen to them and and debrief 398 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,280 on them. If you're reading a book, read a 399 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:36,400 chapter at a time and then reconnect and and find your way 400 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,480 into the healing space with someone so that it doesn't feel 401 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:41,560 as lonely. Because loneliness can be very 402 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,440 traumatic. So we don't want to add trauma 403 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,680 to the trauma. We want to be able to create 404 00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,600 places of safety, of emotional safety, in order for the trauma 405 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:55,280 to have a safe space to be felt. What do you do if those 406 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,040 challenging experiences or more traumatic experience, whether 407 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,360 it's loneliness or maybe there's conflict as you're navigating 408 00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:05,520 this with family, any type of mental health work can bring up 409 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,160 lots of feelings and strong emotions. 410 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,280 What do you do and how do you recommend that people navigate 411 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,840 those intense feelings that arise throughout this process of 412 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,840 cycle breaking? Well, you know, it can be 413 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,680 helpful, of course, to have trained mental health 414 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,280 professional to work with. And I understand that's not 415 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,520 always a point of access for folks, especially right now with 416 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,840 the overburning of the system because the system wasn't 417 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,600 structured well beyond the pandemic to be able to support 418 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,200 as many folks as as need support right now. 419 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:44,160 But one of the things that is most critical in the work around 420 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,440 generational trauma. And I structured not only my own 421 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:53,440 therapy sessions, but also my book in this way is to 1st work 422 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,680 on regulating the nervous system, connecting to the body 423 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,680 in a way where you and your body are, you know, kind of in unison 424 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:07,280 in learning to default to safety more often than you default to 425 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,680 stress and trauma or trauma triggers. 426 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:16,240 And with that, with that season of learning how to regulate, you 427 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,560 are creating an emotional foundation of greater strength, 428 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,920 let's call it, right, emotional strength to be able to then do 429 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,040 some of the digging work into those past wounds in a way where 430 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,840 you don't feel like you, you're trying to crawl out of your own 431 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,880 skin because you feel so incredibly emotionally 432 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,960 overwhelmed. And so that is like step zero 433 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,080 really of doing generational trauma work is like really 434 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,560 understanding the ways and the mechanisms and the skills of how 435 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,360 to ground and then transitioning into the work. 436 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,480 But the beauty of then transitioning is that you now 437 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:57,040 have a mastery that's been obtained of the emotion 438 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,720 regulation skills. So that when you get into that 439 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:07,760 territory of my emotions are going, you know, into 789 of 10, 440 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,880 you have the skills that you'll need to regulate. 441 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,360 You mentioned defaulting into safety instead of stress. 442 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,200 I'm curious what that means to default into stress. 443 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,880 Is it mentally? Is it emotionally? 444 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,400 Is it like the way you're speaking to yourself? 445 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,040 And then what does that process look like of going to safety 446 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,520 rather than stress? Yeah, I think the default is 447 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,000 stress. What I mean by that is 448 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,640 defaulting to a nervous system state of alarm. 449 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,080 So going into, I know that there's expansions that are 450 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,000 happening even as we speak of like the different categories, 451 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,840 but fight, flight, freezer, fond, you know being like the 452 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,440 standing for. And if something happens that's 453 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,440 in front of us, for example, what we're going to use like a 454 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,080 benign example, benign enough, we lose our favorite pen. 455 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,120 This pen was gifted by someone that was, you know, very dear to 456 00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:05,200 us and had our name on it. It was special pen. 457 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,200 Lost the pen. Lost it at the airport. 458 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,640 Can I get it? Of course it's going to bring up 459 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,720 a lot of emotions and even emotions that are very complex. 460 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,200 One might see it as a pen, but that pen carries an emotional 461 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,640 connection. That pen is also bringing up 462 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,120 loss and the the loss that's been, you know, present for us 463 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:28,560 for a very long time in reference to other things, loss 464 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,480 of people, loss of community, loss of, you know, not being in 465 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,160 our hometown and transitioning all the losses coming up, right? 466 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,040 And the trigger response is there and it's accumulating. 467 00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:43,960 And that can be like the place where we tend to default to if 468 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,560 anything is lost. And let's say that the same 469 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,680 person really keeps a tight ship running on, you know, 470 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,480 controlling all the variables around their life in order to 471 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,120 never experience loss. So there's a lot that's 472 00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:59,360 happening from the perspective of loss around this item. 473 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:03,800 And that's the place where, you know, we're defaulting to time 474 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,800 and again, what we're learning with the regulation work of 475 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:14,160 trauma is that we're learning then to process emotionally any 476 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,400 loss that happens around us, minimal or or big, but we're 477 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,320 processing it differently. So we're not going into full 478 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,520 emotional shutdown and emotional overwhelm. 479 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,800 Instead we may feel it may say, man, I'm really sad. 480 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,720 That sucks, but our body isn't like going into states of 481 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,240 dissociation, going into places where we feel a lack of safety 482 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,760 and we're really losing time and losing our connection to a 483 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,720 present world. So that's what I mean by going, 484 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,600 you know, into safety versus like that stress response, which 485 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,440 is more kind of like that nervous system response that 486 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,200 tends to overtake us. Yeah, you mentioned earlier that 487 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,880 we're in a really unique period of time because there's so many 488 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,840 resources, whether it's podcasts or books or research. 489 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,120 What are your recommendations for people that are beginning to 490 00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:05,320 do this work and looking for more things they can consume but 491 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,400 not sure where to start? Yeah, I would first start with 492 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:15,480 learning more about yourself. I think it can be incredibly 493 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,080 helpful to do things that are. So it almost seems like it's 494 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:25,600 like 100 years back in time, but sitting outside for a moment 495 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,920 without our phones and just looking at trees and breathing 496 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,280 in fresh air. There's so much you can learn 497 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,040 about yourself in a moment where you sit in silence that is so 498 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,280 incredibly critical to your mental health that because we 499 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,280 are so over consumed with technology around us, we're, 500 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,000 we're not really allotting that time to, to really getting to 501 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,400 know ourselves in those moments. Someone could pass by and they 502 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,240 could have a Cologne that smells like the Cologne of a really 503 00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:03,920 toxic ex, let's say, right? And your arms and your chest and 504 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,760 everything just starts tingling. And in that moment, you can have 505 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,680 a point of recognition of the fact that there is a trigger 506 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,360 that you can experience in reference to a smell. 507 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,520 But you wouldn't have otherwise like had that understanding if 508 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,360 you were, you know, hopping from 1 train to the next on your 509 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,400 phone. And you also had, you know, 510 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,160 music playing in your headphones. 511 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,840 And you're like moving. And there's so much happening. 512 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,520 You're not allowing yourself an opportunity to get to know 513 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,360 yourself in a way that is actually going to inform your 514 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,520 healing. Because later on in the healing 515 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,240 process, once we start doing the digging work, once we start 516 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,800 really reconciling some of those wounds, we're going to need that 517 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,880 data in order to understand what we need to work on. 518 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,160 Gotcha. I have really enjoyed this. 519 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,920 I think people are going to learn so much from this 520 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,840 conversation and I think there's just so much nuance. 521 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,280 But you explained it in a really digestible way, especially for 522 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:01,960 people that are beginning this journey. 523 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,440 If people want to continue to read your books and consume your 524 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:10,080 content, where can they do that? Well, they can find me at Doctor 525 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,920 marielbouquet.com and my clinical practice is break the 526 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,920 cycle of trauma.com. Incredible. 527 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,000 Thank you so much.