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Welcome to Sheep Assisted, the 
Gen. 

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Z mental health podcast. 
I'm your host, Sadie Sutton. 

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Let's get into it. 
I'm curious if you guys have 

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experiences as well. 
Maybe it's with school, maybe 

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it's with things with your 
mental health where it's like 

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you have resources available. 
You know, if you do the thing, 

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you'll have the better outcome. 
And it's not that you're like 

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lazy or you don't want to do the
thing or it's extra work, but 

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it's literally you being like, I
should be able to do this by 

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myself. 
And not only am I accepting that

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I can't do this by myself, but 
I'm not going to accept the help

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because is I just should be able
to do it alone somehow. 

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Hello, hello you guys and 
welcome back to She persisted. 

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If this is your first episode, 
welcome. 

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We're doing a little cozy sit 
down solo episode. 

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I don't think I've done a solo 
episode since I've graduated 

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college and I'm now working full
time as a clinical research 

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assistant. 9 to 5 busy bee up in
here. 

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And so still getting adjusted to
the new schedule and what's 

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working as far as bouncing the 
podcast, still some social media

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clients and then my full time 9 
to 5 research shop. 

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So once everything is all 
coordinated and set up and in a 

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good flow, we'll of course do an
episode on post grad jobs and 

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routines and habits. 
What's been helpful, what 

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hasn't? 
But I wanted to sit down and 

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talk to you guys about something
that I noticed in the past 

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couple of weeks that I was 
curious if you guys had 

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experienced as well. 
And my hunch is that yes, you 

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guys are also familiar with 
this. 

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I wanted to hop on and share 
kind of how I was working 

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through it, how I was navigating
it. 

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And maybe it's helpful you guys 
can implement these tips and 

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tricks and ways of thinking in 
your own life. 

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So if you know me, I am in a 
pretty good spot when it comes 

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to my mental health. 
And I've been, I almost said 

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I've been lucky, but I've been 
really, really intentional with 

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my mental health and I put a lot
of context and safeguards and 

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habits in place to maintain my 
mental health. 

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I've really careful boundaries 
and I'm really aware of how I'm 

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feeling on a day-to-day basis 
and try to make shifts really 

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quickly if I'm not feeling well.
So I don't want to say I'm lucky

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because it's definitely 
something that I've been really 

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intentional about. 
And I've also been in spots 

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historically with my mental 
health where it was so not in a 

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good spot, which you guys know, 
which is why I started the 

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podcast this year. 
First episode. 

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I went to a year and a half of 
intensive treatment for severe 

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depression and anxiety. 
I was like in and out of the 

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hospital, all the things 
suicidally depressed. 

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So like we've we've had a we've 
had a moment and now my mental 

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health has been really stable 
for the past six years. 

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I'm lucky that all I keep saying
I'm lucky. 

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I want to know what your guys 
thoughts on that when you're 

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having good mental health, Are 
you like, I'm lucky to feel this

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way because I'm obviously 
grateful for it, but I also feel

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like when you say I'm lucky that
it feels like you haven't taken 

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steps to have that outcome. 
And I really do feel like I've 

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taken a lot of intentional steps
and actionable choices to have 

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good mental health, and I'm 
really proud of that. 

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ANYWAYS, for the past six years,
I've been in a better spot. 

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I was really lucky this was luck
to have access to incredible 

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clinicians. 
And they've done a lot of 

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therapy and learned so much 
about how to maintain my mental 

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health, what works for it, what 
doesn't have support systems in 

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place that have allowed me to 
maintain my mental health in 

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addition to like what I'm doing 
on a day-to-day basis. 

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Anyways, all this to say that 
I'll have a depressed day here 

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or there, feel more anxious at 
certain times, but generally I 

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feel really stable and content 
and happy with where my mental 

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health is at. 
But there's one thing. 

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And if you know me, this is not 
a surprise. 

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It's my sleep. 
My sleep is a struggle and I've 

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done different sleep studies and
I still don't really totally 

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know what the exact root cause 
is. 

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But I'm a bad sleeper. 
And that if I get 8 hours of 

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sleep, it's not like the typical
person's 8 hours of sleep. 

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It's not like high quality rest.
So I find myself I could sleep 

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for 16 hours and still feel 
tired. 

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I could sleep for 12 hours and 
still nap. 

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Always really hard to get up 
during the day, tired during the

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day. 
And this has been going on for a

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long time still. 
Again, not totally sure what it 

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is, what the reason is, but 
sleep is an ongoing challenge. 

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And so throughout college and 
especially like the past couple 

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of months as I've had more 
success with some different 

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things with relation to my 
sleep, I did CPTI. 

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So I worked with a sleep 
psychologist to really look a 

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lot at the way I was thinking 
about sleep and the habits I had

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around it and shifting a lot of 
those things to have better 

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sleep hygiene in addition to 
what I was already doing. 

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And I found myself on a 
day-to-day basis on this like 

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internal narrative that I should
be able to do this without help.

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Like I should be able to do this
like a normal person. 

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Like, people sleep well, people 
can get up in the morning, 

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people don't have to nap during 
the day. 

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Like I should be able to have a 
consistency schedule. 

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I should not have challenges 
with this. 

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And it was a really interesting 
way of like shaming the behavior

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or the symptom or the feeling, 
whatever you want to label it 

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as. 
Because it wasn't like I was 

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feeling shame. 
It was just like this, like very

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logical, like most people can do
this. 

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So I should be able to also. 
And you might be like, well, 

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obviously you're shaming 
yourself there. 

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That's very clearly like a shame
based narrative going through 

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your head. 
But for some reason it didn't 

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really clearly come across as 
like I'm shaming myself for not 

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being able to have a consistent 
and regular sleep schedule. 

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And what was really interesting,
and I've now noticed that I've 

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done this with other things as 
well in my life, but it was 

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normally like, I should be able 
to do this thing, but then I 

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also wasn't accepting help or 
putting benchmarks in place to 

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allow myself to do the thing as 
maybe I should be able to, if 

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that makes sense. 
So there were a number of things

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with respect to my sleep, like 
going to bed really early, 

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making sure that I was really 
consistent with my medications, 

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not doing caffeine certain times
of the day, doing more caffeine 

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in the morning, being really 
consistent with Cbti and really 

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exploring like these thoughts 
that I was having about sleep 

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and why I was more avoiding the 
night routine or more resistant 

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to trying these things. 
All of these support systems or 

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scaffolding that I could put in 
place to allow me to sleep 

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better, I was not doing because 
I was like, I should be able to 

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do that without those, despite 
the fact that if I did those 

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things, I would get the outcome 
I wanted. 

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And I'm curious if you guys have
experienced this as well. 

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Maybe it's with school, maybe 
it's with things with your 

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mental health where it's like 
you have resources available. 

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You know, if you do the thing, 
you'll have the better outcome. 

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And it's not that you're like 
lazy or you don't want to do the

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thing or it's extra work, but 
it's literally you being like, I

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should be able to do this by 
myself. 

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And not only am I accepting that
I can't do this by myself and 

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accepting the help, but I'm not 
going to accept the help because

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I just should be able to do it 
alone somehow. 

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And I felt like I caused myself 
a lot more like stress and 

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ineffectiveness. 
And I like literally lost sleep 

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over it because I didn't want to
like accept these resources or 

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help because I felt like I 
should be able to do the thing 

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without support. 
And when I kind of had that 

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realization, I was like, Oh my 
gosh, like that train of thought

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doesn't remotely track that I 
can't do the thing like a quote 

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UN quote normal person can. 
And then I also will not accept 

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the help to allow me to get on 
the quote UN quote normal person

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outcome. 
And I'll just struggle and not 

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do the thing and be more 
distressed because I like 

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deserve that. 
And it just didn't make sense. 

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And so once I realized that that
was how I was approaching the 

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like lots of additional 
supplemental ways of scaffolding

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my sleep, and this could apply 
to anything, it was easier for 

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me to accept help and again, 
really focus on that outcome of 

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like, OK, my goal here is to get
better sleep. 

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My goal here is to wake up at 
this time every day. 

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And yes, I might need more 
support and more scaffolding to 

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get that outcome. 
And not using those resources 

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and support is not only going to
not make me get to the outcome, 

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but I'm going to feel worse 
about it and I'm going to dig 

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myself a deeper hole. 
And so that was really helpful 

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for me to think and sit with and
unpack and like, do some radical

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acceptance around. 
Like, OK, at this point in my 

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life, if I want this outcome of 
sleeping better, being able to 

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wake up in the morning without 
feeling so exhausted and sleep 

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deprived, have a consistent 
schedule, I have to stop getting

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mad at myself for not being able
to do this the way that other 

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people are and accept help. 
Otherwise, I'm not getting the 

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outcome, and I feel bad about 
it, if that makes sense. 

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So I find it really helpful to 
understand, like, what shame is 

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as an intellectual concept. 
I'm an intellectualizer. 

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Can you tell by how this episode
has gone so far? 

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And then I'm better able to 
recognize it and interact with 

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it differently because I was 
doing this for like weeks and 

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months, if not years, without 
realizing. 

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Like, Oh my gosh, I'm shaming 
myself and not doing this 

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behavior because I'm ashamed of 
needing support. 

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So in DBT or dialectical 
behavioral therapy, the way that

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we think about emotions is that 
they either fit the facts, like 

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they're justified in a given 
context, or they don't fit the 

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facts. 
So like, is it a proportionate 

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response? 
Does it make sense to feel this 

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way? 
Emotions are always valid. 

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So we don't ever say I shouldn't
feel this way because I'd be 

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shaming ourselves. 
We don't say this is bad to feel

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this way. 
It's wrong, it's blah, blah, 

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blah, blah. 
It's always valid. 

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We always feel those things. 
We createspace for them. 

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It makes sense given the 
context, but sometimes the 

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amount of the emotion we're 
experiencing doesn't fit the 

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facts. 
Maybe it's it's 

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disproportionate, maybe it's not
justified, maybe it's being 

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overanalyzed, etcetera. 
And that's when we work to 

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change the emotion. 
And so shame fits the facts when

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you're going to be rejected by a
person or group that you care 

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about if your personal 
characteristics or behavior are 

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made public. 
I'm doing this podcast episode 

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right now about how I was not 
doing well with my sleep. 

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So my shaming really didn't fit 
the facts. 

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Would people maybe be like, wow 
that's really unfortunate that 

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you're 22 years old and you 
don't have a normal sleep 

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schedule? 
I mean, maybe, but would my 

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family and my friends and the 
people whose opinions I care 

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about reject me and 
excommunicate me and treat me 

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differently if I was like, I 
really struggle with my sleep 

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and I need to put a lot of 
scaffolding in place to allow 

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myself to have a somewhat normal
sleep routine and not be 

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constantly exhausted? 
No. 

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And I also what's interesting 
about this, like internal 

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shaming was I had the lived 
experience to know that like, my

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family's supportive. 
My friends are so patient and 

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supportive. 
You guys are listening whenever 

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I go Mia for a bit because I'm 
napping. 

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They're always so sweet and kind
and understanding. 

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One time sophomore year of 
college, I was sleeping for not 

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literally 48 hours but at like 
odd hours during a 48 hour 

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period. 
So I wasn't responding to like 

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face times and texts from my 
friends. 

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And my sweet adorable friends 
Alice and Bianca, if they're 

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listening, showed up by my front
door to like literally be like, 

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are you alive? 
We haven't heard from you all 

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weekend. 
Like what is happening? 

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And I was like, I'm sorry guys, 
I was just sleeping. 

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I was very tired anyways, so I 
had the lived experience to know

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that like the shame doesn't fit 
the facts, like I won't be 

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rejected or humiliated based on 
this thing. 

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And yet I was still shaming 
myself. 

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So it's interesting that like 
even when we know logically or 

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we have the lived experience to 
support the fact that we won't 

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be rejected, we still hold 
ourselves to that higher 

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00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,720
standard and are like more 
sensitive about what's 

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00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,440
embarrassing or shameful. 
So in this context, it's not 

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effective to feel the shame. 
It doesn't make sense given the 

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00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,800
situation, and it's preventing 
me from getting the outcome I 

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want, which is having a good 
night's sleep, having a 

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consistent sleep routine, 
accepting the resources and 

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skills that are at my disposal. 
So DBT opposite action for shame

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00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,920
are Oh my God you guys wait, 
this is a funny moment. 

236
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,240
I'm literally doing the opposite
action to shame with this 

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00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,360
podcast episode, but I just 
didn't even realize until I'm 

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00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,880
recording it such a DBT sleigh, 
which is making public your 

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00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,640
personal characteristics or your
behavior with people who won't 

240
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,600
reject you, which is you guys, 
the lovely sheep resisted 

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00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,520
community. 
I know you guys will not reject 

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00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,920
me or shame me or make fun of me
because I'm like, my sleep is a 

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00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,960
hard thing that I have to work 
very hard at to keep consistent.

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00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,520
And speaking to that experience 
and being like, I not only 

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00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,840
struggle with this thing, but 
I'm thinking about it in this 

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00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,800
way that's like really even more
ineffective and it's causing me 

247
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,440
distress and embarrassment or 
whatever it is. 

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00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,760
Speak to it. 
If you want to send me a voice 

249
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,120
memo or a message or comment 
below the episode, what it is 

250
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,200
you're struggling with, put it 
out there. 

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00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,480
I'm here to support you. 
I'll respond. 

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00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,680
Be there as a good listener 
validating others. 

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00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,200
She persisted listeners and also
do the same if you see any 

254
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,480
messages or comments. 
So A, put a voice to it, name it

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00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:14,760
to tame it is what we say with 
shame and B, repeat the behavior

256
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,360
causing the shame over and over 
and over again. 

257
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,120
So like for me, I was like, I 
shouldn't need the scaffolding 

258
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:22,960
and resources to have a good 
sleep routine. 

259
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,440
So I'm going to use all the 
scaffolding and resources and 

260
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,760
support to have a good sleep 
routine until it's normalized. 

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00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,960
I'm like, this is working great 
and I can use these and I can 

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00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:34,600
settle my alarms and have my 
really early night routine and 

263
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,000
take my melatonin at the same 
time every night and drink my 

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00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,200
multiple coffees in the morning.
And that's like normalized and 

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00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,640
what happens and doesn't feel 
shameful or like odd or like I 

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00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,400
should be doing something 
differently. 

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00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,760
Then there's another level of 
this which we call all the way 

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00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,960
opposite actions for shame, 
which is not apologizing or 

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00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:53,480
trying to make up for what's 
happening. 

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00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,560
Like so sorry, I'm drinking my 
third cup of coffee for the day.

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00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:00,000
I'm a bad sleeper, which I do 
this if like you have ever been 

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00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,600
around me IRL and I'm like, I'm 
a bad sleeper. 

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00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,280
Like sorry, like I told my 
friend who we carpool to work 

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00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,520
and I was like, if for for 
whatever reason you ever don't 

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00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,760
see me, by the time we're 
supposed to leave for work, go 

276
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,600
without me, I probably didn't 
wake up. 

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00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,080
Like I'm so sorry and it's not 
on you. 

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00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,120
It's a me thing. 
Like apologizing for things that

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00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:21,120
haven't even happened yet, which
also I feel like is an effective

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00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,800
thing to like set expectations 
and I take accountability. 

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00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,320
It's not on someone else. 
So that I also do feel is like 

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00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,920
an effective expectation 
boundary communication to set, 

283
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,160
not apologizing for like I have 
to go to bed early and like I 

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00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,800
can't do that tonight because 
like I have work tomorrow and I 

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00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,720
need to be really consistent 
about my routine. 

286
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,960
I'm going to be exhausted if we 
go and do that thing after class

287
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,520
because it takes me X amount of 
time to like wind down, do my 

288
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,720
night routine, etcetera. 
And then the last one, which I'm

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00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,320
not doing at all, curled up, 
sitting in my bed comfortably 

290
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,320
for this episode. 
But changing your body posture. 

291
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,280
So fake it till you make it, 
looking proud, competent, 

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00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,720
lifting your head, body language
that maintains eye contact. 

293
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,600
You are acting in like a 
competent, proud, intentional 

294
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,440
way with this behavior because 
you shouldn't be ashamed of it. 

295
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,640
Your body language shouldn't be 
embarrassed or shameful because 

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00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,000
this isn't a shame inducing 
situation. 

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00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,320
Remember, it doesn't fit the 
facts. 

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00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,560
We're changing that emotions 
because it's unjustified and 

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00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:21,960
ineffective. 
So like I said, like if I am 

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00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,040
late for work because I don't 
use my support systems to get 

301
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:29,680
myself up on time and get rested
enough that I can wake up for my

302
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:33,040
alarm in the morning, I should 
feel guilty because I've made a 

303
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,880
commitment and I have a 
responsibility and I'm letting 

304
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,800
others down South. 
In that situation, you do act in

305
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,440
accordance with the guilt, but 
not always with the shame, if 

306
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:48,920
that makes sense. 
So in that situation, you make 

307
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,680
public the behavior. 
So you like explain I have a 

308
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,400
really challenging time with my 
sleep. 

309
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,320
Normally I do all these things 
to try and set myself up for 

310
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,480
success and make it as easy as 
possible for myself to have a 

311
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,120
like seamless easy morning 
routine and not feel sleep 

312
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:06,680
deprived. 
This is like something I'm 

313
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,880
struggling with. 
Being vulnerable about that, 

314
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,880
apologizing for the behavior, 
taking full accountability. 

315
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,760
I didn't wake up on time. 
I didn't follow the routine that

316
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,320
allows me to be successful in 
waking up in the morning. 

317
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,320
I scrolled on TikTok instead of 
going to bed. 

318
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,120
I didn't put my book down. 
I didn't start my night routine 

319
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,360
early enough. 
Whatever it is, repair the 

320
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,920
transgression. 
So what harm did you cause in 

321
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,440
the situation? 
Like I was late, which means 

322
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,640
that I missed out on the 1st 30 
minutes of work. 

323
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,920
So I'm no stay 30 minutes later 
I caused someone else to have to

324
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:43,000
take over my workload because I 
was late and they had to cover 

325
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,480
for me. 
I'm going to cover for that 

326
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,120
person and apologize and make up
the same amount of work for 

327
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,440
them, etcetera. 
Repairing the trust. 

328
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,120
How long do you have to show up 
for work on time? 

329
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,680
Is that person doesn't see you 
as someone who's not reliable or

330
00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,720
consistent or able to show up 
and trust that when you say 

331
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,360
you'll be there, you'll be there
on time. 

332
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,800
Then you commit to avoiding that
mistake in the future to them 

333
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,319
and to yourself, yourself that 
like you will be there on time 

334
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:10,040
and you will wake up and that's 
not something that they have to 

335
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,720
worry about. 
And then accepting the 

336
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,200
consequences gracefully. 
Are you fired? 

337
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,760
Is there like a pay doc? 
Do you have to apologize? 

338
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,880
You have to reschedule 
something, stay late, whatever 

339
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,599
it is, right? 
You accept those consequences 

340
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:24,240
because the guilt is justified 
based on those actions. 

341
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,440
You take accountability and then
the all the way opposite actions

342
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:29,960
for shame when you do feel 
guilt. 

343
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,840
So like, you should be guilty 
behaviorally, something was 

344
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,440
ineffective, you committed a 
transgression. 

345
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,040
But we're not shaming ourselves 
because like, you did something 

346
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,360
wrong, but you as a person are 
not wrong, right? 

347
00:17:42,360 --> 00:17:44,840
Like that's guilt and shame. 
I should have clarified that 

348
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,640
earlier, but it's a good thing 
to be aware of. 

349
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:49,760
So guilt is I did something 
wrong. 

350
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,840
Shame is I am wrong. 
So we can do something wrong, 

351
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,440
but that doesn't mean that we're
wrong or bad as people. 

352
00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,040
So we can do all the behaviors 
to make reparations for doing 

353
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,360
something wrong, but that 
doesn't mean we want to endorse 

354
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:04,600
these like thoughts and feelings
that we as a person are wrong 

355
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,560
and bad. 
So the other two things that you

356
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,160
do is forgive yourself, 
acknowledging the causes of your

357
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:10,600
behavior. 
Like you guys can hear me being 

358
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,640
like, I didn't set my alarm, I 
didn't get to bed early enough. 

359
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,360
I didn't stop scrolling on 
TikTok. 

360
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,840
Not I am a bad person, I am 
lazy. 

361
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,160
I don't know how to wait. 
Like right. 

362
00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,200
Like it's what were the external
things that led to this? 

363
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,960
And then we let it go, we move 
on, we keep going with our lives

364
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,400
because it's not going to change
the outcome. 

365
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,600
It's not going to change the 
relationship or the behavior to 

366
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,680
continue to sit in it and Stew 
with that thought behavior 

367
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,120
thing, whatever it is. 
And this is something that I do 

368
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:46,080
feel I'm really good about is 
letting it go, being like 

369
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,400
nothing is going to change at 
this point. 

370
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,040
We just keep moving forward and 
giving yourself that grace. 

371
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,640
So what am I doing now moving 
forward? 

372
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,840
I am doing all those things with
the opposite action and over the

373
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,840
top opposite action for the 
shame in this context. 

374
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,320
So I'm talking about it. 
I'm not apologizing. 

375
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,400
I'm doing the behavior of like 
putting the scaffolding in 

376
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,320
place, using my sleep hygiene 
routine and not feeling ashamed.

377
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,440
Like I need an early bedtime and
lots of structure and support 

378
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,920
and I can't just sleep for three
hours and be fine the next day. 

379
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,880
I'm being really mindful of how 
I'm thinking about my sleep, 

380
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,800
knowing that like OK in the 
past, this is an emotional 

381
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,200
vulnerability that like things 
around my sleep are not only 

382
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,760
really challenging, but I have a
lot of feelings around them. 

383
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,640
Like I'm more predisposed to 
feel ashamed or guilty or angry,

384
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,840
whatever it is. 
So when I'm having thoughts and 

385
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,120
feelings about sleep, I'm paying
a lot more attention to them and

386
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:48,240
I'm having more awareness around
the OK, like what's the root 

387
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:49,840
fear there? 
What's the feeling? 

388
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,680
What's the thought and why? 
And then I'm packing that, 

389
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,680
checking the facts. 
If it's justified, we continue 

390
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,800
on our way. 
If it's not justified, we do 

391
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,360
opposite action. 
So I hope that you guys are not 

392
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:04,480
also struggling with your slave 
because it's not a fun thing to 

393
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,240
navigate. 
But I do hope that this was 

394
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,640
helpful if there's something 
else that you keep shooting and 

395
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:15,000
shaming yourself about to. 
Understand how to be more aware 

396
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,640
of that and how to navigate that
in a really like self 

397
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,240
compassionate and effective way 
and to get the outcome that you 

398
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,280
want, right. 
So if you're also in that 

399
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,800
position, I hope that it was 
helpful to kind of unpack, 

400
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,360
intellectualize that a little 
bit and understand how you can 

401
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:34,440
kind of counteract those 
feelings and thoughts and get 

402
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,240
out of our own way because I 
feel like that's something I do 

403
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,720
a lot and I'm sure you guys can 
relate to that as well. 

404
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,440
So if you liked this little like
mini solo where we just 

405
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,040
reflected on things and 
thoughts, let me know. 

406
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,400
If you want to name it to tame 
it and send me a message to DM 

407
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,400
and e-mail anything to let me 
know what it is that you're 

408
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,600
working on feeling less shame 
about, let me know. 

409
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,400
I'd love to be a listening ear 
there to support however I can. 

410
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,360
I really do hope this was 
helpful. 

411
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,720
I want to do more episodes at 
some point on shame and do like 

412
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,840
a book club episode on like 
Brene Brown's episodes in her 

413
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,400
work because it's such an 
interesting thing. 

414
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,160
And I think that's one of the 
things I struggle most with with

415
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,320
my mental health, which is why 
it's popping up here with 

416
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:18,440
something as inconsequential 
asleep is shame and like really 

417
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,320
internalizing and attaching our 
behaviors and our feelings to 

418
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,080
like us as people. 
So more episodes on that coming 

419
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,320
at some point, but I want to do 
more solos for you guys now that

420
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:31,440
I'm not as intellectually 
drained from classes and exams 

421
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,600
and work and having a little bit
more mental bandwidth, which is 

422
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,080
exciting. 
So if you guys have any requests

423
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,160
for solo episodes or things you 
want to hear on the podcast, let

424
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,360
me know. 
I hope this was helpful and I 

425
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,080
hope you guys have a great week 
and I will talk to you next 

426
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,920
Thursday if you enjoyed this 
episode. 

427
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,680
If she persisted, make sure to 
leave a review, subscribe and 

428
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,040
share with a friend or family 
member. 

429
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,400
Follow along and at She Persist 
a podcast on TikTok, Instagram, 

430
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,200
YouTube and more for bonus 
content. 

431
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,200
Thanks for listening and keep 
persisting.