Welcome to, she persisted, I'm your host CD son.
Every Friday. I post interviews about mental
health, dialectical behavioral therapy and Teenage life.
These episodes break down my mental health Journey.
Teach skills to help you cope with life and showcase
testimonials from individuals, including teens, just like you.
Whether you've struggled yourself or just want to improve
your mental Fitness. This podcast is your inspiration
to live a life. You love and keep persisting
this week on she persisted People don't always want answers
or problem solve, they want someone to listen at the eyes
and validate and I think we all can do that qualified or not.
I not only asked for help and I accepted that I need help.
But I trust you to other people. Enough to help me this week's
DBT skills, radical acceptance to start this many skills
education we have to talk about pain.
Pain is our body's natural way to tell us that something is
wrong whether that's emotionally or physically.
Will pain is inevitable for everyone.
Suffering is not and suffering comes as a result of remaining
miserable and not accepting our current reality.
This is where radical acceptance comes in, this means that you're
100% with every ounce of your being accepting your life, your
reality, your emotions as they come, this is one of the hardest
DBT, skills out there to accept things that you dislike you
disagree with, and you fundamentally wish were
different is a very difficult thing to do, and it has profound
results. Really accepting that your
current reality In This Moment is feeling depressed or anxious
or stressed or overwhelmed allows you to stop being in that
headspace of denial. That that's not what's actually
going on and instead making measurable changes to improve
your head space. So this week, when you're faced
with something less than desirable, I challenge you to
accept that you're in this situation, say to yourself.
This is my reality. I don't agree with it.
I don't think it's okay. But this is what my reality is
and I can't change it. Sit with those emotions, sit
with the discomfort that arises and allow that suffering to
slowly start to decrease. Hello everyone, and welcome back
to another episode of she persisted.
I'm so excited for you to listen to this week's episode.
I'm changing some things up here in the she persisted world and
really updating and improving my show layout.
So I have a couple new features to these she persisted show I
had did a little bit different of an intro this week.
Really going to be sticking to the audio B that you get.
Here at the beginning of the episode, you got a tidbit of DBT
education, right at the beginning that you can implement
this week. And at the end of this intro,
I'm going to do some rapid fire Q&A questions from listeners.
This week is actually my spring break last week.
We were out of town, but this week I'm off from school.
And so, I have just been diving into work and the podcast.
I listened into the most amazing Clubhouse, this week, all about
podcasting, and improving the quality of your show, and
really, just putting out, amazing high-quality content.
Aunt. I had a really amazing coaching
call with a fellow podcaster and I am excited to make some
changes in that room as well to continue to improve the quality
of the show and I've been doing tons of calls and interviews
with upcoming, gas potential upcoming guests, just all things
to really bring you guys the best content that I possibly
can. And you can get the most out of
these podcast episodes. So, jumping into these qas
because for this first week, I want to go into a little bit
more detail and really give these Amazing question, some
attention. So if you want to have your
question answered in next week's episode, you can either
anonymously submitted on my website.
You can shoot me an email at inquiries it she persisted
podcast.com or you can DM me on Instagram question 1.
How did you survive high school while navigating depression and
anxiety at the same time? The short answer was that for a
point in time I did not navigate High School.
I did not do the second semester of freshman year because I was
on a medical leave while I was getting intensive treatment.
And that was something that I never thought that my mental
health would get to. I don't think my family saw that
my teachers didn't see that, but when you're really, really
struggling and your mental health is consuming your life
continuing to be an active engaged.
Successful student. At some point isn't possible.
Without that, really strong mental Foundation, your ability
to cope your ability to be persistent and have grit without
that. You're not able to put yourself
into all these different activities that we as teams
engage in. So, What I had to create that
Foundation, from scratch for myself, learn the coping skills
that allowed me to get through the day, rewire the belief
systems that created so that I could be confident and happy and
mentally healthy, create really strong relationships that
uplifted, me and made me feel safe, and seen and heard and
valued. And after that, I was able to
really recreate my life in a way where when I felt moments of
depression, or anxiety or stress, whatever it was that
came up. I could still Ate my life with
school and work and the podcast. So, now when I'm having a down
day, which I would say, is more common than me feeling anxiety.
When I'm having an off day, I'm feeling super unmotivated and
sluggish and feeling. Those feelings of depression, I
really hold on to the mindset that it is in permanent.
I know that when I wake up the next day, it's going to be a
fresh start and I'm not necessarily going to be feeling
the same feelings. I do my best to do the opposite
of what I'm doing, whether that's to get up and go outside
or do something. Do work be productive, sometimes
that's not always possible when I'm not really feeling up to all
those things I do. The next best thing rather than
staying in bed and doing nothing, which is watching a TV
show or consuming some kind of content that improves my mood.
Try to make myself feel, happy trying to do something and
distract myself from these other feelings that are really putting
a damper on the day. I might watch the office for a
while, maybe I'll listen to a podcast, whatever it is that
really does bring me joy. So that's my in the moment
approach to feeling down. Down or depressed and really
just emphasizing. That this is today, tomorrow is
going to be different. I'm going to have a fresh start,
even if I still feel somewhat depressed.
It's not going to be the same amount of depressed and same
emotions as today. And then long-term I try and
create really healthy routines that improve my mental health.
So I try and prioritize my sleep.
I try and get up at this similar times every day.
I do my best to maintain my physical health.
I do things that make me happy and make me feel productive and
motivated and inspired and passionate.
Not because all of those things, increase my mood.
So having a life that's filled with things that increase my
mood on a regular basis and doing my best to cope with the
impermanence of negative emotions when they do arise.
Next question is, what's your thoughts on meditation?
I really want to be good at meditation, like that is a goal.
I have for myself, I want to be like a Buddha at some point, not
actually. But I want to be able to like
meditate in the morning and meditate at night, be super in
touch with my thoughts. I think that is a really amazing
skill that So many people have and I'm not there yet.
I have found sleep meditation to be very helpful listening to
meditation or doing a guided meditation myself before bed.
That is something really effective that I've been able to
implement in a link my episode on sleep meditation down below.
I also really like to do a meditation sometimes in the
morning to set the tone for the day and set my intentions, as
long as I'm out of bed, I find that to be effective.
Sometimes I'll fall back asleep though.
So just making sure to switch up my environment if I'm doing a
morning meditation. But I wish I was better at
meditation. I wish I could Implement that
more and it's a skill. I'm still working on.
Next question. I got was how can you make sure
to practice DBT skills daily? This is a hard one.
DBT is such a Content Field Therapy that it's almost like
you're taking a class to learn all these different skills and
remembering them is in itself, somewhat of a challenge.
So one of the ways that I have found most effective to make
sure I'm practicing my DBT skills is to Be reminded of the
skills daily and one way to do this is with a diary card.
If you're into BT, you know, what a diary card is in your
feeling about, basically tracks, your mood, and your urges, your
behavior is all of that throughout the day, but you're
also tracking your skills usage. So, once a day you're looking at
a comprehensive list of all the DBT skills so you can reflect on
what your unintentionally practicing as far as skills and
you're also able to kind of remind yourself.
Hey, I forgot about that skill, I'm going to use that tonight.
We're actually that would be a great thing to do in this
conversation. Later, let me use that skill.
So even if you're not using a diary card or that's not
something you need in your life right now, just having like a
sticky note or a printout of DBT scales, next to your bed
somewhere where you can glance at it and be reminded I would
say is my best tip for making sure.
You're practicing skills daily. Next question is, what is your
favorite aspect of your morning routine?
This is a hard one because I feel like I I know I'm not a
morning person and I feel like my morning routine has lots of
room for growth and It's not the most practical, because we're
still in lockdown. I'm not going to school yet
though. Next week, I've, this might be
different, so it's not, it's more.
Kind of like, I have a long morning and I have classes, and
I'm not forced to get up and get ready to go.
Somewhere that being said, I have made one significant change
in my morning routine this week, which I found to be really
effective and it might be my new favorite part, which is that I
get up the first time I wake up in the morning.
And so I have in the past struggled with weight, Up really
early in the morning and not being able to go back to sleep,
but after I've gotten my sleep more regulated, I'm someone that
has more problem with pushing snooze over and over again, then
waking up early and not being able to get enough sleep.
So when I wake up for that first time, which normally is like,
just around 7 a.m., I will get up because I know that if I push
news or I go back to sleep, I'm not able to wake up and be as
alert and aware as I am at that initial time.
So I ended up like snoozing until like 11:00 a.m. which is
is so bad and the other mindset change that I've done about
waking up that early this week is that.
I'm telling myself that, I know it's going to be hard.
I know that getting up in the morning is going to be difficult
and terrible. And if I practice it and
continue to maintain this habit for a couple of weeks, it will
get easier. And for whatever reason I've
never approached getting up in the morning with that mindset if
I was just like, I should be able to get up early, other
people and get up early. Why is it so hard for me to do
this and yet that validation piece of being like this?
Going to be hard and it's going to get better.
Has been really, really effective for me in having a
morning routine and being willing to get up.
So I would say that's my favorite aspect of my morning
routine is getting up that first time when my body tells me that
I'm ready to get up and then having that time in the morning
to kind of relax and it's quiet and nice out and it doesn't feel
like I'm rushing to a first class or a meeting or whatever
it is. So those are all the questions
that I'm going to answer for this week.
If you have a question, you want me to answer next week?
Be sure to DM it to me, email or submit on my way.
Website. And I will answer it and I'll
also answer some more of these on Instagram.
So if you're not already following me at at she persisted
podcast, if you asked a question that didn't get answered, I will
be answering it on Instagram as this episode goes up.
This week's episode is sponsored by teen counseling.
I cannot tell you guys. How many DM's texts emails?
I get from teens parents, even friends asking, how can I find a
therapist? How can I enroll in therapy?
How can I find a therapist for my teen?
How do I tell my parents? I want to go to therapy.
That's why I'm English teen counseling teen counseling is an
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support you're looking for, they got you, you're going to go to
teen counseling.com, she persisted, you'll fill out a
quick survey about what your goals are for therapy.
Whether that's improving your mental health, during the
pandemic, working on your relationship with your parents.
Self-esteem, whatever it is. They'll match you with therapist
that fits your needs. You'll enter your information
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They had to the website learn a little bit more about the
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And from there you can meet that therapist on a frequency that
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having to go into an office, meet with a therapist meet with
The Stranger and go through all of that for the first time.
So you can go to teen counseling.com, she persisted
again. That's teen counseling.com says
she persisted to get started today.
So, without further Ado, this week's guest is a curried
Aronofsky. He's a 27 year old former
College Dropout, turned medical student, and a mental health
Advocate, you might recognize him from social media at at MD
motivator, and for his inspirational Tick-Tock and
Instagram posts. If you love what you hear in
this episode, you can follow him on Instagram and Tick-Tock at at
MD motivator check out his YouTube MD motivator.
And finally check out his company and mental health
movement.com, that's mental health and the mtv.com.
All of his links will be in today.
Description. Be sure to tag them as well if
you listen to the episode. Thank you so much for coming on
the show and for joining me today.
Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited for this, of
course. So can you tell me a little bit
about yourself and your journey and what brought you to your
work in mental health, advocacy, sure, I'll try to keep this
really short and to the point, my name is Zachary Aronofsky.
I'm originally from Canada. My now, live in Sydney,
Australia. So my story, I guess I can
start. When I was in high school.
Straight-A, student entered College flopped, I failed out of
college. Go to point 5 9 g p AI 9 FS on
my transcript. I remember calling my Dean and
my Dean saying Zachary College isn't right for you.
Not even like can I get reinstated?
And I remember my parents had no idea at the time.
So, I went down to the dinner table at day, shared it.
My mom stormed away. My dad said, move out.
So it was a really like ultimate low my life from like a
relationship standpoint from an identity standpoint of who I was
in terms of I guess like this perfect student or a
well-rounded person is like filled out a college, maybe
younger brother, stop looking up to me.
So then over the next Year I did was actually over the next 56
years. I did whatever I could
essentially to prove people in my life wrong the wrong way.
I guess to approach getting motivated or doing the things
you want to do. But obviously, it got me to the
point where I was a year out from starting medical school as
a client and I'm like, I kind of have a story here of being like
a former College Dropout in my transcript.
So on social media one day I just put up my transcripts, my
.59 GPA, just put it out kind of shared my story and I was blown
away, I'll never forget. This kid from Vermont random guy
from Vermont message me is one. One message you just expose
vulnerable and real and just like you sharing.
I was like, it's social media to be used for good.
I was blown away because from my understanding of social media in
the past is that it was these filtered photos and filtered
stories in this highlight reel, right?
So the fact that I could see this, I was okay.
Maybe there's something there. So over the next four months,
every single night, I would host Instagram live with either a
medical student resident, or doctor, from around the world.
World and through that, I came to understand that there was
this mentor to mentee Continuum of.
I guess people want to exchange knowledge and people that I
looked up and inspired to become Sadie.
They were much more willing to be vulnerable and share their
obstacles and adversities and setbacks which the mentee like
myself or people before me got really inspired by.
So through that, I created a formula, not sure if you read
it. So the formulas called
vulnerability equals relatability equals empowerment.
So, that formula that I use, when I spoke about the academics
is What I use when I speak about mental health, but backwards for
a second. So that's that company reached
out to me and they said, Zach, how you travel North America and
speak about being a former College Dropout to inspire
students. I was like, that's amazing.
So I did that for about five months before, moving to
Australia, when I moved to Australia that was January of
2020. So I started medical school here
at the University of Sydney, like five minutes away from
where I live right now and then covid happened.
I went through a six-year relationship breakup, which I
didn't know at the time that that was I guess my source of
happiness and Who I was medical school is challenging, I had ACL
knee surgery so my outlet which was like sports and working out.
I lost that and all these things and I was isolated I couldn't go
back home because it covid. So all these things came in on
me till like a Breaking Point and that was like May or June of
2020 and I went I was like, okay I can't be the only one feeling
this way. I was like crying myself to
sleep wasn't getting sleep. I was binge eating.
I wasn't being productive. I wasn't studying.
I just wasn't myself and I was okay.
I have to do something about this so I Counseling Services
here at the University of Sydney, which is free and threw
that one of the things they we went over and we talked about
was the fact that I am a huge over-thinker and I never told my
thoughts but they said that journal your thoughts.
So I was like, okay I bought a journal, not this one, this is a
beside me and I voted out one night.
I'm like you know what, why not Journal my thoughts on social
media like journaling my transcripts on Instagram.
So I did that on Tick-Tock and then it just snowballed, I
became best friends with a guy. I have never met a need of in
the states. Is named Jake Goodman.
Who we now co-founded a company called the mental health
movement, which is a clothing line to start the conversation.
We started a podcast, we have student scholarships for mental
health. We give back globally to
nonprofits, monthly and been very fortunate to have connected
with so many brilliant. Amazing people that inspire me
and yeah, it just been really fast-paced last eight months.
That's that's amazing. And it's so cool.
How much of a transformation you were able to have and how many
people you are? But impact within covid, which
was a huge mental health, low for so many people, so many
people are struggling and looking for that reassurance,
that what they were going through was, okay, and normal.
And so I think that's just amazing.
So really diving into this overthinking anxiety that I have
seen so much of your content about that, that I felt would be
so helpful to share with listeners.
So, can you kind of talk to me a little bit about your experience
with anxiety, and then we can segue into your advice on that.
Yeah. So I think my anxiety to
overthinking it. Go hand-in-hand about thinking
about always what's the worst case scenario and never actually
getting anything tangible down on paper.
So I thought once I saw when I started like, I guess, writing
my thoughts down and seeing it as this, I guess, worst-case
scenario and recognizing, okay, it's not that bad and it was
there. It was like, okay, this is 1 2
3. These are the only three
thoughts that have but it goes around 100 times in my head.
So not 300 thoughts. They're just great and then I
can take tangible actions towards them once.
I know the three things the worst-case scenario.
And then okay, that's the worst case I'll be.
Okay, that's visible is super helpful to me with anxiety and I
think more so about recognizing that when I started talking to
people that I've never talked to my life about, I struggle with
certain things, or just the word struggle, I never use that
because it's week and I started saying I struggle, I started to
recognize that I really wasn't alone like I'm social media.
I know there's social proof that I'm not alone, but like my real
life, like my friends were Medical School, my friends back
home. Opening up more to my family
build, a deeper relationship with Them through that with my
parents over the last year. So I think finding an outlet
that works for you. For me personally, it's
journaling and having the confidence to know that there's
some form of support system for you, whether its family friend,
someone you trust, or professional support to have
that outlet to go to to know you're not alone.
So with your journaling getting specific, are you the kind of
person who can just write down and like everything goes in the
page? Do you like prompts do you like
writing down? Like gratitude, what works for
Yeah. Yeah.
Music music, I'm listening to music that I really like like
I'm just like not connected to my phone actually.
So I said a journal or notebook. I don't journal on my phone or
my laptop because I'll get distracted.
And I just my mind, will wander, not be present.
So I find what I'm doing that. I like to go out and nature if
I'm able to like go to the beach or go or like a forest or hike
and write it out there because they're just mental Clarity to
allow myself to just think about him, but I guess I'm Very
deliberate what I write. So I so if I said there was
three things that all right, the worst case scenario for all
three and then. All right.
What are two steps I can take today?
What are two steps I can take for each of those things and
just have find that getting the ball rolling and knowing them.
The worst case scenario it stops a lot of what was nice you
personally. Hmm.
Yeah. No.
I think that makes a lot of sense.
What is your advice for supporting someone?
That is going through anxiety. I think, starting conversations
about mental health and going through my Own Journey.
That was something my parents and I struggled with my peers my
teachers, they were like, okay, like we see you're struggling.
We see something's going on here, but a lot of us are
familiar with how to support someone that struggling with
that if we haven't experienced our self.
And so, I was wondering what your tips were for supporting a
friend. Family member someone in your
community, that is actively struggling with anxiety.
Yeah, I think anxiety or just mental health, or pretty much
anything. A lot of times I was talking to
one of my friends. People don't always want answers
or problem solve. They want someone to listen
after eyes and validate and I think we all can do that
qualified or not. So I think that's a really
important feature is not like for me personally, I'm all
about. Okay, it's the problem.
Here's the quick fix I already told you.
Like that's kind of how I do my we're thinking, but sometimes
sitting with the problem and recognizing there is no quick
fix, there's Beauty in that. So I think if you're listening
to you, if you want to connect further asking questions, It's
using diffusers that helps me a lot as well.
So what I mean diffusers like playing sports, so if I'm
playing basketball shooting Hoops, my friends are much more
open to this fluid conversation to speak about things that are
more real to me as opposed to say.
Okay 6:30 p.m. today, we're meeting at the dinner table such
a delight. It's funny.
My sister is the same way where when we're talking about
something, if she gets emotional, she it's like hard if
I were to look at her and pick. Okay, tell me what's Happening
Here. I see.
You're so what I'll do is I'll intentionally like scroll on my
phone and have tuner out. She just gets into this like,
space of Consciousness. I'll tell her, that's what I'm
doing. I'm like, I'm listening, but I
know that if I stare at you, you're gonna stop talking and
it's really helpful, especially with teenagers when we kind of
have become accustomed to this environment of constantly being
on technology. It's definitely not.
I wish that wasn't a way that people opened up more, but doing
that parallel processing and having that distraction.
Totally agree. So, helpful and I love the
validation piece. I know that was one of the
biggest things in my relationship with my dad,
because when I started struggling with depression, he's
never been depressed. Today in his life.
So he was like did he realize that kids could get depressed?
And so it was really interesting because he first approached it
by I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning.
I didn't want to do anything and he would come into my room and
he would play classical music. Like as loud as the speaker
would go. He think if I play something
loud enough, she'll get up, she'll go do something, she'll
go to school, it'll be fine. Of course I didn't get up.
I just ignore him. I was like Dad this isn't
helping go away and it wasn't until I was in intensive
treatment I was at a residential and I had Diary cards that kind
of tracked where I was at depression, wise, anxiety, wise,
suicidal, ideation wise, and he couldn't understand what I was
feeling. I was hiding a lot of things so
we couldn't see it, but he would look on these diary cards to
make. Oh my gosh, like she's
experiencing a 9 out of 10 for the worst emotions she's ever
felt for depression and anxiety and suicidal ideation.
And I can't even imagine how much pain that is for someone to
go through on a daily basis. And then you could be like, I
see that you're struggling and he'd never said that before.
He'd never Been aware of that, he never communicated that and
yet it was so powerful and for him, just to make that space and
be like, I acknowledge this. And I see it, and it's real, and
I can't solve it for you. He didn't get it 100%, but he
could see it and appreciate that.
And that was so powerful. Especially you said tip for
parents or someone who hasn't been there before.
Yeah. And I think that's a huge thing.
There you said write, your dad's never experienced a day of
depression is life. Sometimes you can't relate to
switch. Someone's going through most
times. You probably can't, but I don't
think it's about fully saying, okay, I've been there.
I've done that. It's more so talk to me.
What are you? What are you going to kind of
feel? What can I do to listen?
What can I do to help? I'm here for you.
Just like simple things but like, totally.
I kind of backwards, methodology of how you usually solve
problems and your daily life, right?
Totally totally. And it's funny because
validation is so great. Because even when you completely
disagree with someone, like sometimes when you look at
someone that's depressed from the outside, you know, that if
you get up and get active and you get outside that will help
but that's the hardest thing for people to do.
So completely frustrating to try to just want someone because you
can't make them do things. You can't make them get out of
bed and yet you don't have to agree with the decisions they're
making. You don't have to agree with the
actions that are going on to validate them.
You can just kind of be there to appreciate the pain, and the
emotions and validate that, and not reinforce and agree with
behaviors as well. So, it's just such an amazing
tool. I want to take a timeout and,
because I know you're all about tangible action for your
listeners. I wanted to revise some value.
That helped me over the last year with when you're in that
state, when you don't want to do.
I think knowing that it would help.
So, for me personally, I use a Google Calendar and do a thing
called Pomodoro study techniques.
I'm very structured in my studies, but the issue with your
emotions is you can't say at 11 a.m. till 12, I'm going to feel
this way, right? I wish I wish.
So what? I've come to learn one of my
friends, who's a psychiatrist in Melbourne, he said this thing
called micro goals, so I've been doing that.
So an example of that would be. So let's say it's Thursday, 6:36
p.m. and I'm laying in bed. And something of negativity or
something floods. My thoughts.
And it's supposed to say can't do it.
Can't get in that state. Okay, I go to my phone, I set an
alarm for 7:06 p.m., so the next 30 minutes, I listen to music,
I'll cry, I'll go on Pinterest, I'll do whatever I want and I'll
flood those emotions and let myself feel, but at 7:06, then
I'll go wash my face. Walk down the street, cook
something to eat, do one, small micro goal to allow myself to
transition out of that. So I allowed myself to feel, but
not take over my day or Week, which is something that's
helpful to me. I know it's easier said than
done, but I think that could be very helpful, at least one
listener of yours. Totally.
And it's so powerful because you give yourself that place to
experience and you're not avoiding.
So you're not necessarily problems worse for yourself in
the future and then from there, you're able to change your
action, through able to change those behaviors, which then will
change your thoughts and then your emotions as well.
So you can really come full circle and move past that place
that you're in will helpfully healthily moving through that
and process. The saying.
And so, it's amazing. So some of my favorite posts
that you share our about what you should say, and what you
shouldn't say to people that are struggling.
Because again, we, we all have emotions.
We all have mental health. We know what we experienced
times. When I have a friend, or a
family member, that's going through something, I'm like
what's helpful here. Like I have to really, we rewire
my thought process to be like, how can I support this person
and not going to problem solving?
Because that's how we approach. So many things and it's not
always helpful. Yeah.
So, I was wondering if you could kind of walk me through the do's
and don'ts of speaking to someone who's struggling with
her motivation. Anxiety, all of those kinds of
things. That's a big question and I my
pardon no expert. I just share from what I've
experienced. That's when you know what?
I've looked up and found. So I think obviously the things
not to say is right your traumatic, your attention,
seeking your disease, just just be positive or just snap out of
it, right, or relax or like all those things, right?
Obviously you can explain why those don't work.
Work. But I think figuring out what
does work as opposed to thinking about the right terms.
I think it's more about thinking about like you were saying the
right, thought process? Okay, I'm not trying to solve a
problem here. I'm trying to allow this person
in my life to feel accepted feel a valid, a listen to empathize,
like the things we've said before, right?
So what can I do to help whenever you need to talk?
I'm here to listen to you. I can't imagine how that feels
right things that I guess open the conversation of except
through the acceptance, right. Is shutting that door which they
probably don't want to open to begin with.
So the fact that they're slightly opening it you never
know how long they'll be open for and what it means to them
because that's another thing right?
When we talk about seeking support the such a guess, tough
term to say, especially on social media.
Because the quick response people say is when I've sought
support in the past, people have shut me down, people said, yeah,
right now with right with Meghan Markle where she went and she
asked for support and they're like sorry.
Oh, yeah. So that's spot-on.
Exactly. Perfect thing in pop culture
right now where it's that's real life, what happens to a lot of
people? So I think seeking support is so
hard especially if someone has already been troubled in the
past from it, so to respect that and be there.
And yeah, so yeah, that's that's what I think.
Whenever I talk about actionable steps, you can take for,
depression, or anxiety, or whatever it is, that you're
struggling with. I always say that the hardest
thing I ever did was for that first time accepting that I
needed help because they Month and everything was real.
It wasn't that I could just avoid it anymore and put it in a
nice little spot. In the back of my head, it was
like, okay I'm voicing this, I'm telling someone else, it's
actually a real problem, and I was also saying that I couldn't
handle it myself which for me, I totally saw as a sign of
weakness that I wasn't strong enough that I wasn't able to
handle this. That it was too much for me.
And I had so many negative beliefs around that, that I was
going to be good enough because I couldn't cope with this or
manage it and so getting through that that first time and telling
someone that you're not okay and hopefully having that be well
received received means that you're not only trying to avoid
what you're going through which is creating more suffering for
yourself. But you have more people in your
corner and they're not going to solve your problems or not.
Going to fight your battles for you.
But you have support and you have people, you can lean on and
you have more people, you can get advice from and tips and
tricks and just so much more knowledge from which you can
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talk about that. First time you sought support.
Was there an epiphany? Was there a Breaking Point.
Why did you seek support? Okay?
I know why. Why did you hit that point?
Yeah, so it was it was crazy and that I was like backed into a
corner when I was struggling with depression and anxiety and
when I was really, really struggling.
I was already in like weekly counseling.
I was going to a therapist and we were like, trying to think.
I was like, working on, like getting all my chores.
Has done or having effective conversations with my parents.
So I was in therapy, just not for depression, and it was just
slowly, but surely, everything was deteriorating around me.
I wasn't sleeping. I would go like days without
sleeping. I wasn't eating, I was
withdrawing from every single person around me whether that
was my parents or my friends. I was really just going.
Six hundred percent into school and other activities to avoid
anything and I was just super overwhelmed and really sad and
just so many emotions that I wasn't processing.
I actually went into the doctors, my parents brought me
in because they were like, this is not normal.
We don't know what to do. And what we're trying right now
isn't working, so they brought me in to my pediatrician and
they ask you the questions or like, have you lost interest in
things you've used to enjoy? How are your relationships?
Do you feel sad a lot of the time and it had gotten so bad.
I was so withdrawn. And so like removed from coping,
and from what I was going through and I was also 13.
I forgot to mention that I was 13 at this time.
So this was a lot for for someone, my age to be going
through. And so I went to the doctors and
they're like, okay, you have a psychiatrist appointment this
afternoon and during that entire appointment, I didn't say
anything to anyone. I was completely silent and
closed off. I went to the psychiatrist.
Same thing. So I actually went to the
hospital the first time that I ever got that help.
And the way that I communicated that I was actually going
through something and validated that was, she had me draw, like
a pie chart and she was like, what are your emotions that
you're feeling? For me, it was just like I said,
like sadness and emptiness and alone.
And that was what I was feeling 100% of the time.
And so, I went to the hospital and I was there, I think for a
week or 10 days at that point at 13 and I had just was so removed
from the idea of asking for help or coping or getting support
that the ability to voice what I was experiencing or go to
anyone. At that point was so far from my
my reality. And so for that first time
actually acknowledging that That was crazy because I also didn't
realize what Depression was. I was really young at that
point, had really heard of it hadn't had friends that had
struggled with it, so it kind of felt like I was just kind of
crazy. Like, I'm experiencing all these
things that aren't normal. No one else is having this going
on. And so I was just like, I just
am really, really miserable and I don't know why it after that
came. Not only a lot of support, but a
lot of clarity, because what I was going through, was, in a
sense, not normal, but other people had gone through before,
and it was an actual diagnosis, and there were treatments and
people that Jobs were to support you which is therapists and
doctors will of that. And so that was that first time
that I ever got support on. And then the other pivotal
moment was when I was in residential treatment and I
wasn't able to stay home because things were improving with
depression and anxiety and my family relationships.
So, I got to this Hospital in Boston, which I've talked about
on the podcast so many times because they have the most
amazing program, but they asked me in the really do want to be
here. It's like no, I don't want to be
here. I had Googled before and if
you've ever Ever seen the movie Girl Interrupted.
It's based on this hospital, it was an asylum and like 1900's.
I was like, oh my God, where am I going?
I was terrified. 14 years old about to like get carted off to
some like psychiatric unit and I was so scared when I got there
and I was like, no, I don't want to be here.
And they're like, okay, we completely respect that and we
understand that and you can't be here unless you see the wisdom
and this treatment and you trust us.
And so that was the other time where I not only asked Help and
I accepted that I need help. But I trust you to other people
enough to help me and I gave it to their advice and their
support and the skills. They taught me.
And I actually opened myself to the idea of treatment working
instead of just going through the motions like I did initially
which was hearing that I wasn't okay.
And that I was depressed and navigating that.
So those were definitely the two pivotal moments for sure.
Wow, yeah, I can't imagine what it must be.
Like at that point to just with open arms trust someone, when
you got vulnerable right and in that state, It's much easier to
trust me a good place. It was terrifying for sure.
And on top of that, I just talked all of my belongings and
moved across the country and my parents just thought they would
take me there. Like, okay, she will drop her
off. She's good sign the paper and
she'll they'll work on this but of course with so much
compassion and love, they were so worried about me but to hear
that they weren't going to like help me, unless I want it to be
helping her somewhat. Like this isn't how this works.
And so I'd lost everything in a sense in the hope of getting
treatment and getting help. And I didn't believe In that
treatment that I was pursuing at that point.
It's so it was crazy for sure. And it was definitely a moment
that stuck with me and I'm so glad that I trusted them because
14 weeks later, I was waking up and for the first time in years,
I wasn't depressed. And I wasn't suicidal.
And I'm knew how to cope with and manage my anxiety.
And that wouldn't have happened unless I really did trust them,
and give that my all. And so, I'm so glad I did, but
it was again, terrifying and scary completely amazing, and
that life-changing moment that's I think that's most people write
with like life-changing. A few moments it's like this
really scary transition or you don't know what if and just?
Yeah. You're so thankful that you went
through what you did. Now 1,400 that now you have a
skill set and now you want to inspire Empower others to
probably do the same. And we don't see it in the
moment. Like I was like, did not
understand the purposes and any of this, I was just miserable.
I hated everything. I didn't understand why I was
being forced to get treatment. I didn't think the treatment
work at all of this had no purpose or meaning or Journey
that I could. So now like three or four years
later, I can look back and be like this is why this worked.
This is why asking for help at this point was so effective.
And these were the resources that that had such an amazing
impact on me. But in the moment you don't see
that. You don't see the purpose of
struggling with things that you can help other people and
connect with them. And so it takes time for sure.
Another thing that I thought would be super important and
relevant to touch on was red flags of sorts or things to keep
an eye on. On to know when someone else is
struggling. What should you look out for to
keep an eye on other people's mental health and check in with
them and kind of be aware of when things might might not be
going so well for them. Yeah.
I think of red flags is different for everyone, right?
I think it's more. So about being aware of the
relationships, you have with the people in your life and what
their I said she I guess. Quote unquote, normal is from
this super energetic outgoing guy and the last three days I've
had Lunch in my car, or lunch at the library, or just small
things of just isolating more to check in on and just asking.
Hey, man, how's everything doing.
Are you okay, just like going out of your way when you
recognize as opposed to just thinking that getting caught up
in your own bubble, which is easy for a lot of us to do.
So I for me personally, that was one of the things that I
noticed, I did more was, I was just more I guess standoffish or
I guess no more more tired or made excuses of why not to go to
certain things or a last-minute cancellation Fashion.
So I felt like yeah lean into your intuition and try to really
know based off your relationship with someone if ya just ask.
I think that's from my perspective of what I've
learned. I would love to hear your
thoughts as well. Yeah, I think I completely agree
and I think people won't always be receptive.
Or remember people ask me like, are you okay?
And the default pic? Yeah, I'm totally fine.
I'm good. But even just knowing that
someone noticed something or cared enough to ask, like that
means a lot even if I in that moment, was the able to think
I'm actually not, okay. I could really use this support
because X Y and Z is gone on and this is what would be helpful.
But just to know that someone notices, that you're acting
differently and cares enough to get curious.
That is so powerful. And so, even if someone doesn't
receive it very well in the moment, just know that it might
have a, really, really big impact on their emotional state
that day. The other thing that I really
wanted to touch on because I don't have male guest on the
podcast super often. It is called she persisted, but
that's mostly because of my story.
But I have you read the book? Untamed by Glennon Doyle.
I have not but I've heard of it so good.
I'm so she, this isn't like so many books, but she talks about
her relationship with her son. And how, when her daughters were
born, she trained them from day one to like, think outside of
the box. And if they're asking a question
and being authoritative, that's what they're doing.
They're not being bossy. So she train them to fight
against this and be feminist their entire life.
And then she looks at her relationship with her son, when
he was becoming a teenager and she was like, I have put him in
this box that I was trying to destroy, which is not
expressing. Oceans and not saying when
you're not okay, or connecting and having strong relationships.
And I think that would be really interesting to kind of touch on
and get your experience on as far as the gender Norms on
expressing emotions and saying you're not, okay?
And navigating mental health challenges because it's a huge,
it's a completely different standard for males and females
and you see it so much in the treatment industry, even when
you're just looking for programs, for teenage boys
versus girls, totally different Numbers when you look at like
statistics as far as abuse or neglect and male versus female
programs, completely different and even just like the rates as
far as teenage depression for males versus females.
The number of females that will either be in touch enough with
their emotions to voice that they're struggling, is so
different from what we see in males.
And so I kind of just wanted to hear your thoughts on that.
Yeah, I think that's really eye-opening to me, especially
the last year I thought female struggle more with mental health
or suicide than males. I think females Whole have much
better support systems in place right sides that they can go to
for help. So it never gets tickets for
normalized. What normalized?
His emotions are normal. Like there's no breaking point
when the guy who is it is it three out of every four,
suicides his mail? And I think that has a lot to do
with the fact that we're not allowed to feel are more
importantly. We don't have these cliques or
groups or friends or family that we feel like we just go when we
are not like banter but just like expressed his daily.
What's going on right? Spent Iran.
Be like this person is so annoying.
I'm so angry. Like that's like no, you don't
let it out you surprise. Say what do you think it
eventually grew to a point where it's like, oh my God, how could
he have done this? It's because there is no fluids.
Yeah, so I think that was a huge thing and I've actually done a
social experiment know if you saw it on my Instagram, the last
few days where I've gone into the city.
So before I say, the last 50 days, there's been no cases of
covid here in the whole state of New South Wales.
So I put up a some shallots and that it's our cousin.
So how to sign says, if you've ever struggled with depression
or anxiety, hug me, I was blindfolded with my arms, open
the middle of the city and like, 90% of people that hug me, or
guys, like I would have never thought a random guy would hug
another random guy but Mental Health on the street and be so
vulnerable. So even the last couple days
I've recognized that like Guys, want other guys to be receptive
to to open that door so that they can just Express
themselves, right? Yeah, so I think it's really
important that we all do our part as males and obviously, as
females to be, as vulnerable as we are comfortable to be on,
it's just it's crazy. It's just a mind-boggling to
think about because as humans were built off of connection,
when we're not connected, when we're not having engaging
responses from people are physical health declines, our
stress levels increase, like there's physical Presentations
of how much that impacts you and how much that makes you
struggle. And yet males in our society or
condition to the ought to do the opposite of connecting, which is
not express your emotions, not get really authentic or
vulnerable and relationships, and the impact on mental health
is just terrible. And then, that's exacerbated
because we have all these statistics where it's like,
well, females experience things for more than men do, as far as
depression, and anxiety related rates.
And it's like, well, if people aren't expressing that in the
first place, of course, those statistics will be skewed.
And then, as a result, there's less Says, there's less people
aware of it and talking about it.
And so, it's just something to be really, really aware of and
really, really cognizant of because it's just, it's a crazy,
big problem and it's like hurts your mind to think about, but
yeah, exactly. And but if there's been one,
good thing that I think is come from covid is I guess the
destigmatize a shit or more normalization around the the
conversation to mental health. But I think there's still ways
to go there and I think it's more about.
Okay, what are the actionable steps that you can take?
Take because people are speaking about it because people are
like, you're not busy in this 9 to 5 life.
You can't just suppress it with busyness.
Like people are making these drastic like shaky decisions,
but they're not drastic. They're just more aware of like
holy shit. This where I'm at in my life for
this is actually feel. It's like, I need to make
changes and just yeah, I think that's one.
Positive of covid is, I guess more awareness of our mental
health, totally, totally. No, I completely agree were
given so much more time and space to just sit with what
we're going through before we could just numb everything.
Out with going for like point A to point B to point C and just
interacting with everyone and never getting to sit with the
emotions and the thoughts that we're having.
And now you're forced to do that and that's caused a lot of pain
for a lot of people because they are, there were so out of touch
with them, that it's so overwhelming.
And they're so out of practice of dealing with those emotions
and coping through them. But it also with time you get a
lot better at that until I'm with it and coping with it, and
hopefully people are gaining more skills and that'll carry
back to when we're going back to more normal version of life and
we can carry those into our relationships, too.
Exactly spot-on. Yeah, I grow sound.
Well I'm so glad we got to sit down.
I feel like there were so many different amazing parts of this
episode will be so helpful for listeners.
So thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you, say for having me for everyone, that's listening.
As you know, already she's 17 years old and I just met her for
the first time and she's I'm so inspired by you and I look
forward to watching you along your journey as well.
Say thank you, thank you. I appreciate it.
In case you skip to the end. I wanted to recap this episode
Zachary and I die. I've into his journey from
College Dropout to medical student in mental health,
Advocate. We talked all about his
experiences with anxiety overthinking and the journaling
prompts that help them cope with these feelings.
We dive into how to support individuals that are struggling
with anxiety, or mental health, challenges, and using diffusers
in these interactions to encourage authentic, open
conversations. We also talked about supporting
someone when you don't necessarily relate to their
experience, but still want to create space for their struggle.
Lastly, we talked about setting micro goals to transition from
intense, emotional experiences to navigating your
responsibilities. And finally, how gender Norms
impact emotional expression and mental health challenges.
If you enjoyed this week's episode, please share with a
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future episodes and leave a five star review on Apple podcast to
let me know what you think. Thanks for listening and I'll
see you next Friday.