1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,960 Welcome to Sheeper Assisted. I'm your host Sadie Sutton, a 19 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,440 year old from the Bay Area studying psychology at the 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,000 University of Pennsylvania. Sheeper Assisted is the teen 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,880 mental health podcast made for teenagers by a teen. 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,120 In each episode I'll bring you authentic, accessible and 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,440 relatable conversations about every aspect of mental Wellness 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,000 you can expect. Evidence based teen approved 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,040 resources, coping skills including lots of DBT insights 9 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:28,680 and education, and each piece of content you consume. 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,439 She Persisted offers you a safe space to feel validated and 11 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:35,160 understood in your struggle while encouraging you to take 12 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:37,440 ownership of your journey and build your life worth living. 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,720 So let's dive in. This week on She Persisted. 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,200 We'll wake up in the morning with our throat hurting and 15 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,440 you'll tell somebody how my throat hurts, right? 16 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,880 Like that rolls off our tongue in a way that is totally 17 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,680 appropriate. Wait for whatever reason, feel 18 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,040 like we need to wait until we have hit rock bottom before we 19 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:58,320 say that about our mental health. 20 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,960 Next time you're thinking that next time you're having that 21 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,360 little struggle actually answering the question, when 22 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,280 somebody says how are you can open up for you the ability to 23 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:12,120 be vulnerable and you'll find that almost everybody around you 24 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,200 is also struggling in some other way. 25 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,200 Hello, hello, you guys, and welcome back to another episode 26 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,520 of She Persisted. I am really, really excited for 27 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,440 this episode because this is hitting very close to home. 28 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,560 We have Allison Mallam on the podcast today. 29 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,240 She went to the University of Pennsylvania and that's where 30 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,160 she founded Active Minds. And I have been a member of the 31 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,120 Active Minds chapter at Penn. And I'm sure you guys are aware 32 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,520 of this, but my mental health journey and she persisted, is 33 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,040 really, really synonymous with advocacy and activism in the 34 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,240 mental health world. And so this was a really 35 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,080 incredible cool conversation to have about what large scale 36 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,520 mental health advocacy looks like, how we can create 37 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,680 communities where people feel heard and included and seen, and 38 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,800 also bring change to the mental health industry. 39 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:00,080 So like I said, Allison Mallam is on the podcast and joining 40 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,600 her is Lauren Sakara. They are both team members at 41 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,000 Active Minds. Allison is the founder and 42 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,120 executive director and Lauren is the VP of School Mental Health. 43 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,520 So we have two really interesting perspectives here. 44 00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:13,280 If you aren't familiar with Active Minds, it is the nation's 45 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,760 leading nonprofit organization that promotes mental health 46 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,800 awareness and education for young adults. 47 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:20,920 They have a huge network of chapters and award-winning 48 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:24,840 programs at over 1000 colleges, including Penn K through 12 49 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,080 schools, workplaces and communities. 50 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,000 And this is a really powerful episode. 51 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,560 We talked about the loss in Allison's personal life that led 52 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,000 her to start Active Minds. We talked about why there is 53 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,040 such a challenge and struggle with talking about mental health 54 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,360 and being vulnerable and being open and what causes that 55 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,280 disconnect between knowing that it's good to get support, it's 56 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,120 good to lean on others, and then actually taking that step to be 57 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,000 vulnerable. We talked about how you can 58 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,480 actually open up and connect with others regarding mental 59 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,240 health, common struggles that occur on college campuses, how 60 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,280 to support a teen who's struggling with their mental 61 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,520 health, how you can get involved or join a chapter of Active 62 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,360 Minds. And then Big Picture policies 63 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,880 that schools and government should implement so that we can 64 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,920 really bring global change to mental health, which is a really 65 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:11,840 important part of the activism conversation. 66 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,480 So I'm really excited for you guys to listen to this one. 67 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,000 I hope you leave this feeling inspired and empowered on your 68 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,440 journey of being a mental health advocate, or at least feel more 69 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,160 equipped to support others who are being vulnerable and 70 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,080 speaking out about their own experiences. 71 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:29,920 So with that, let's dive in. Well, I'm so excited to have 72 00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:33,760 both of you guys here today. I was part of one of the Active 73 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,440 Minds chapters at Penn, and it's just such an incredible 74 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,120 organization. I see the Sands Islands packing 75 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,800 set up every year, and it's just such a powerful community that 76 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,160 you guys have built. And so I'm so excited to have 77 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,720 you on the podcast today. Well, really appreciate that. 78 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,600 It's a, it's an honor for us to be here and always really fun to 79 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,640 talk with folks about what Active Minds has meant for them 80 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,240 and to them and what Active Minds is doing out in the world. 81 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,520 So just really happy to be able to to have this conversation 82 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,400 with you and with Lauren from our team. 83 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:07,960 Yeah. OK. 84 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:12,320 Well, to start, I would love to hear why you started Active 85 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:13,680 Minds. A little bit of background 86 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:14,600 there. I know you have a really 87 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,040 powerful story and so I'd love to touch on that. 88 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,120 And then we'll of course, touch in to how people can get 89 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,600 involved with mental health advocacy because I think so many 90 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,400 people have this experience where they've gone through 91 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,400 mental health challenges, they feel so compelled or they know 92 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,880 someone and they feel so compelled to get involved, to 93 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:36,480 speak out, offer support. And unfortunately, it's not 94 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,920 always that easy. Like there are ways that are 95 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,720 really effective and amazing and inspiring when it comes to 96 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,280 mental health advocacy. And sometimes when we talk about 97 00:04:44,280 --> 00:04:46,840 things that can be less effective and empowering for 98 00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:49,600 people. And so I think having specific 99 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,040 ways you can get involved and really be part of a community, 100 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,760 which is one of the other amazing parts of mental health 101 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,680 advocacy that sometimes gets missed is super important. 102 00:04:58,680 --> 00:04:59,800 So I'm excited to dive into that. 103 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,560 But to start, can we hear a little bit about your own story 104 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:08,040 and why you started Active Mind? Sure, I'd be happy to share. 105 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:13,680 So the the short of my really kind of personal and life 106 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,440 changing story is that I was a student at Penn. 107 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:21,120 Actually, also in my freshman year at Penn, I lost my brother 108 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,640 Brian to suicide. Brian himself had been a college 109 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,440 student and he started struggling with his mental 110 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,640 health in his freshman year of college, but didn't tell anybody 111 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,600 until his senior year. We come from a really supportive 112 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,200 family. My mom is a clinical social 113 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,200 worker. We came from the environment 114 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:41,240 where he had the support at home if it were something that he had 115 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,240 felt comfortable talking to people about, But but he didn't 116 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:48,360 and hid his symptoms for the entirety of his college career, 117 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:52,400 both from me and my mom, but also from his friends and the 118 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,720 folks around him. And he ultimately went and got 119 00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,160 help from his school's counseling services, came home, 120 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:00,840 took a voluntary leave of absence from his college, but 121 00:06:00,840 --> 00:06:03,360 ended up taking his life in March of my freshman year of 122 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,120 college. So that's what kind of got me 123 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:09,840 into this world of of understanding learning being 124 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:13,040 thrown into mental health, mental illness, suicide, suicide 125 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,160 prevention. I happened to be taking an 126 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,880 abnormal psychology class this semester that Brian died. 127 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,640 And so it was taking what I was learning in school and really 128 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,240 applying it to home. And, and I think the thing that 129 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:27,240 really struck me the most was learning the age of onset of 130 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,360 most mental health issues, learning the fact that suicide 131 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,760 is the second leading cause of death for youth and young 132 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:34,960 adults. Finding all of that out only 133 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,880 because my brother had taken his life and only because I was in 134 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,280 an abnormal psychology class and wondering why we weren't talking 135 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:45,080 about it more openly. So that people like Brian knew 136 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,640 that they weren't alone, knew it wasn't their fault, and felt 137 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,560 comfortable reaching out for help earlier. 138 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,240 And, and people like his friends who saw changes in him but 139 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,440 didn't know what to say. I wanted them to know what to 140 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,520 say and how to support him and help him get into the, the care 141 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,800 that he needed. And so I launched a student 142 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:06,040 group at Penn in my junior year. And upon graduating, a year and 143 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,560 a half later, I started the nonprofit in order to develop 144 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,280 and support other chapters of that student group at other 145 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:12,760 schools. And, and really more than 146 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,280 anything, bring about kind of a generational shift in mental 147 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,280 health and mobilize and engage youth and young adult as a whole 148 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:20,880 to talk about mental health differently. 149 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:25,080 Because I saw just how quickly my generation and people who are 150 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,640 younger than me were wanting to talk about mental health. 151 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,400 We're lobbing on to this idea of having a mental health group. 152 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,800 And it just wasn't something that we had been taught about as 153 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,720 we were growing up. And so it was going to create 154 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,360 need for some change and some generational shift in mental 155 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,280 health. And so that's how Active Minds 156 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,040 was was launched with the idea that we have the opportunity to 157 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,440 mobilize the generation, the Active Minds generation, to 158 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,200 think and talk about mental health differently. 159 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,680 And to create a space where everybody gets the help they 160 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,720 need as soon as they need it. Because we're talking about 161 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,760 mental health every day and recognizing that we may not all 162 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,600 have mental illness, but we all have mental health. 163 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,320 And so this is part of our everyday life, and we have an 164 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,080 opportunity to make sure that policies are supportive of 165 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,720 mental health, individuals know what to say to each other, and 166 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,440 people feel comfortable talking about both their struggles and 167 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,680 their triumphs and recognizing it's part of their everyday 168 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,880 work. I want to talk about the. 169 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,440 That phenomena where people, we have really universal 170 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:19,960 experiences when it comes to mental health. 171 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,360 I think a lot of us can relate to that feeling of like, no one 172 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:23,800 gets it. I'm so alone. 173 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,880 I don't feel supported, I don't feel seen. 174 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,600 And yet so many people are feeling that way at the same 175 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,800 time. We're just not talking about it. 176 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,080 And I'm sure you guys have had so, so, so many people come to 177 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,159 you and express that and explain that. 178 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,559 Like I just didn't feel seen. I didn't feel hurt. 179 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,520 I didn't know how to articulate what I was going through. 180 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,520 And I was wondering if we could speak a little bit to that 181 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,360 experience, potentially why people don't feel comfortable 182 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:47,720 being vulnerable. And I think that that's 183 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,680 something that when you haven't struggled with your mental 184 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:53,480 health, it's really confusing, whether it's parents or peers or 185 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,120 friends. It's like, why didn't they say 186 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:57,920 anything? Why didn't they ask for help? 187 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,320 I would have responded well. So I was wondering if you guys 188 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,440 had any thoughts there and why people struggle to put words to 189 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:09,920 those things or or hide and and put on this like different more 190 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,680 edited version of themselves to the outside world. 191 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:16,480 Even when you know that you would have responded well, or 192 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,760 that you would have been there with open arms wanting to offer 193 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,120 support and invalidation. Yeah. 194 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:24,960 Lauren, do you want to take that? 195 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,840 I want to introduce Lauren Takara, who is our VP of school 196 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,280 Mental Health and and would love for you to be able to take that. 197 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,920 Lauren. Yeah, happy to to do that. 198 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,360 Thanks for having us, Sadie. So I think you're right. 199 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,840 I think that, you know, our our health and Wellness journey is 200 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,560 personal, right. So there's this layer of like, 201 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,080 yeah, I don't want to burden somebody. 202 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,120 I'm, I'm going through this myself. 203 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,840 But I think one of the things that I want to point out is that 204 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,480 this generation, I think Allison has really been a trailblazer in 205 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,480 this mental health moment. Because when, you know, Brian 206 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:03,560 died and she started Active Minds, she was probably 1 of 207 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,240 very, very few people, let alone undergraduate students that was 208 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,280 really talking about mental health and really trying to like 209 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,840 normalize that conversation and combat some of that stigma that 210 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,880 you're talking about. And so we've seen a huge shift 211 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,120 in 20 years. So yes, there's still a layer 212 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,400 all of this. I don't want to burden people. 213 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,800 And it's like, it's, it's this personal, but on the outside of 214 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:30,560 that, people are very interested in advocating for mental health 215 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,080 as a movement as a whole, right? So there's this like dilemma in 216 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,400 some ways. Like I want to advocate for it 217 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,200 as a whole, but I don't want to say anything personally. 218 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,960 So, so I think a lot of our young adults are sort of 219 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,680 experiencing that. They really care about their 220 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:47,840 peers. They really care about how 221 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,240 mental health is valued and prioritized in their schools and 222 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,040 in their communities, but they don't know what to do in that 223 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,840 individual space. So one of the cool things that 224 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,680 Active Mind recently launched, we worked with Showtime and MTV 225 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,280 and we rolled out sort of like an everyday conversation tool 226 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:12,720 that can really help provide youth and young adults the tool 227 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,440 to have those individual conversations with their peers. 228 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,120 And it's called ask. So it's ASK and it's acknowledge 229 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,560 support and keep in touch. And so folks can go through a 230 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:28,760 self-guided sort of YouTube video, their series, and it kind 231 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,640 of gives them the step by step of really how to think about 232 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,840 asking people, you know, hey, how's it going and sort of 233 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,280 validating what somebody else is sharing with them. 234 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,360 You might not have all the answers and that's OK. 235 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,960 You don't need to have a clinical background to help 236 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,360 somebody. You don't have to have a 237 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,840 clinical background to have a conversation about mental 238 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,840 health. Just like Allison said, we all 239 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,040 have mental health, like we have physical health, right? 240 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:59,000 So this tool really helps you acknowledge that, hey, somebody 241 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,960 might be struggling or you might be like, you're acting like 242 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:04,560 yourself. I just want to check in and see 243 00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:05,880 how you're doing. How are you doing? 244 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,040 Oh, you're, I hear you're having a bad day. 245 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,000 Have you eaten today? Have you seen the sun? 246 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:12,800 Have you gone outside for some fresh air? 247 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,360 Like even those little pieces, right? 248 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,720 Help and if something is larger than that, that somebody is 249 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,280 experiencing a mental health crisis, that is where the 250 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,320 support comes in, right? How can you support that person 251 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:29,120 in, say, finding the tools and resources or other people to 252 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,360 maybe help them if things are are feeling a lot stickier or 253 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,960 harder for you to just navigate on a general conversation level, 254 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,120 right? And so being able to be there 255 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,360 and support somebody through that, being able to say, Hey, 256 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,280 I'd, I'm not a counselor, but I know that our campus has a 257 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,080 counseling center. Let's go and see what they have 258 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,680 and really advocating for getting an appointment or hey, 259 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,960 have you called 988? You might just need to talk to 260 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,840 somebody that has that clinical experience that I don't have, 261 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:00,200 right? That support piece. 262 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,000 And then the last step is really keeping in touch. 263 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,760 This is probably the most important, right? 264 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,360 In the sense that it's not just this one and done and you don't 265 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,960 have to keep in touch in sort of this robotic way. 266 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,720 Hey, so you came to me to have this conversation. 267 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,000 How are you doing? It's like, hey, how's it going? 268 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,000 How is that psychology test? Like, hey, I saw that you are 269 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,040 volunteering, you know, at the local animal shelter. 270 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:25,760 I saw from your Instagram. How's that? 271 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,600 That must be really a lot of fun, right? 272 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,960 It's just these Nuggets that you can sort of ensure that you're 273 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,640 staying in touch with somebody that you are checking in and not 274 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,160 this robotic way, but seeing sort of the whole person being 275 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,080 there fully for them. It's not just like, thanks for 276 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,000 having the conversation. I'm out of here. 277 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,320 That, that consistent sort of checking in. 278 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:50,480 Hey, let's grab a meal. That makes a huge difference. 279 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:56,040 So we, we share those tools as very, very simple everyday ways 280 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,120 to kind of ensure that we are staying in touch with people 281 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,080 that we're checking in in a way, because our world is our world 282 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,200 right now. And a lot of our students are, 283 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,280 are navigating not only school things, but just life in 284 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,120 general. And so how can we ensure that we 285 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,960 are genuinely and intentionally connecting with people that in a 286 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,080 way that matters, right? And the the smallest 287 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,520 conversation can make the world of difference to somebody. 100% 288 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,000 And I also think Allison, what you mentioned about your brother 289 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,080 about like having this facade that you put on for friends and 290 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:30,520 family and school and all of that. 291 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,840 I, I remember that experience and I also remember that it was 292 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,720 like a very precariously put together facade. 293 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,800 And I think if I'd actually been asked like, how are you doing or 294 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,080 tried to be vulnerable about that, I would have just been 295 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,720 emotions and not something that would have been able to, to stay 296 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,400 established. But I also remember that because 297 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,280 I was really struggling and really emotional about my mental 298 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,200 health, I would present went fine for small questions like 299 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:55,760 how is your week going? How did the test goes? 300 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,800 Like those little freebies that people ask you like, how are you 301 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,080 doing today? And then all the way up to like, 302 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:02,800 how is your mental health? How are you doing? 303 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,120 How do you feel about yourself? How do you feel about your life? 304 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,680 And so if you're listening and you're like, that's me. 305 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,240 I'm completely putting up this facade where I'm letting no one 306 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,720 in and someone else how my day is. 307 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,440 And I'm saying great, but I'm really struggling on the inside. 308 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,840 I'm not even remotely having those vulnerable conversations 309 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,360 being like, I'm not doing well and I might need support 310 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,320 starting at those smaller ones like how was your day today? 311 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,160 Been like, you know what? It was really overwhelming and I 312 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,920 missed my alarm and I have this crazy test coming up and having 313 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,160 that vulnerability about those smaller things that feels more 314 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,560 manageable can be helpful and kind of doing a little exposure 315 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,520 therapy up to that big vulnerability of like, I, I'm 316 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:44,320 not OK. And I think I need support 317 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,360 because unfortunately, like you're building that skill set 318 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,760 and you're building that routine and pattern of just not being 319 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,320 vulnerable and not asking for help and not sitting with how 320 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,840 you're feeling and suppressing that, which can be even more 321 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,720 painful as well. Yeah, I think it's so right, 322 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:00,160 Sadie. And I think about it often 323 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,320 because, you know, we'll wake up in the morning with our throat 324 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,400 hurting and you'll tell somebody how my throat hurts or like, I 325 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,080 didn't sleep well last night, right? 326 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,040 Like that rolled off our tongue in a way that is totally 327 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,600 appropriate because we're vocalizing our struggle. 328 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,280 We're saying, OK, this might be a tough day or I got to watch 329 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,040 myself. But wait for whatever reason, 330 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,560 feel like we need to wait until we have hit rock bottom before 331 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,000 we say that about our mental health. 332 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,280 And so next time you're thinking that next time you're having 333 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,320 that little struggle, I so wholeheartedly agree with what 334 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,760 you said, Sadie, actually answering the question. 335 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,960 When somebody says, how are you can open up for you the ability 336 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,960 to be vulnerable in micro doses, which can then build up on each 337 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,000 other. And you'll find that almost 338 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,360 everybody around you is also struggling in some other way. 339 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,920 And so you're also opening up the conversation for them to say 340 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,680 the same thing. And then everybody wins, right? 341 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:58,360 Like you've shared, they've shared. 342 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,520 You don't feel alone because so much of this field alone, so 343 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,640 much of this field like it's our fault that we're the only ones 344 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,640 that everybody else has all their stuff together. 345 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,160 But it's because we all are keeping up this facade. 346 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,640 And what's so interesting about how we talk about mental health, 347 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,119 as Lauren was saying earlier, there's actually a lot more 348 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:19,880 conversation about mental health going on. 349 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,760 And, and research is showing that people are saying, no, I 350 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,680 wouldn't judge somebody who tells me they have a mental 351 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,359 health disorder. I wouldn't judge somebody who 352 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,240 tells me that they're going to therapy. 353 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,160 But I judge myself. And so if you think about it in 354 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,760 that way, nobody is judging you and nobody would judge you if 355 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,960 you shared what you're going through. 356 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,640 The most judgement that's happening is yourself to 357 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,720 yourself. And so if you give yourself a 358 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,280 little bit of permission to say, I know that I have people in my 359 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:51,360 life who love me and care about me and this is the whole of me 360 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,840 that gives you the opportunity to be your whole self and to get 361 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,000 the support. Not only that you need, but you 362 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:00,160 deserve, right? You deserve support when you're 363 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,960 struggling in the same way that you do if you didn't sleep well, 364 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,600 in the same way if your throat is hurting and, and just 365 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,680 recognize that that's what it means to take care of your 366 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,280 mental health. Yes, it's cucumbers on your 367 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,560 eyes. Yes, it's massive, these stress 368 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,200 activities, if that's something that helps you during a 369 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,480 stressful time. But sometimes it's as simple as 370 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,680 I didn't have a good night or I'm not having a good day. 371 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,160 That is also self-care. That is also taking care of your 372 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,600 mental health. And in many ways is what we need 373 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,480 in order to be able to be that the totality of our 374 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,440 vulnerability to get the support that we really deserve. 375 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,880 Allison, I'm curious when you were at Penn if Penn Face was a 376 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,600 thing, because whenever we have a pen grad on the podcast, I 377 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:43,720 have to ask because it's such a hot topic. 378 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,000 I think that's what most mental health conversations revolve 379 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,080 around at Penn. And there was a study, I'm doing 380 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,200 quotations because it was not an actual study. 381 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,080 But you see this floating around in the Penn community that like 382 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:58,160 Penn is the most depressed university and the students are 383 00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,880 more depressed than any other college. 384 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,760 And I've I've heard a lot of different schools of thought. 385 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,520 Subjectively, I haven't found that to be the case. 386 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,240 And I'm also curious what your thoughts are there, because it 387 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,280 really exemplifies what you spoke about at the beginning 388 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,560 with your brother, where it's like you're putting on this 389 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,960 facade that everything's OK and everyone's doing it and no one's 390 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,400 talking about this internal struggle. 391 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,400 And it's really interesting for a community to embrace and 392 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,280 accept that, like, that's what we're all doing and that's 393 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,120 what's happening, and it's ineffective, but we're not 394 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:26,320 really shifting anything about it. 395 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,480 So I was wondering if that was a thing when you were there and if 396 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,680 you had thoughts. Yeah, I so I was a pen before 397 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,040 the term pen face was a thing. Like that's how old I am, I was 398 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,400 saying. And also absolutely, but I would 399 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,720 say that it's not, it wasn't and continues to not be unique to 400 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,320 Penn. And this is one of the things 401 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,280 that I've really come to understand and appreciate. 402 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,000 My brother was at a school that was similar to Penn. 403 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,760 And so I could equate his experience and my experience and 404 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,400 say, well, you know, we're at similar types of school, then I 405 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:58,120 can see this is happening and this is happening at schools 406 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:00,960 that are not penned right. And, and we are all facing 407 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,720 different stressors. For some folks, they are non 408 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,160 traditional students who have families and also in school. 409 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,960 For some folks, they are working a full time job and also in 410 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,320 school. For some folks, they are, you 411 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,480 know, a student athlete or in Greek life and also dealing like 412 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,160 every What I have seen over the years in doing this work is 413 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,080 that. Everyone is facing stresses and 414 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,480 stressors in their own ways, in ways that we could never 415 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:31,000 understand if we're not them. And it's all relevant and it all 416 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,760 matters. And so, yes, penface existed, 417 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,000 though the term wasn't even known yet. 418 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,920 It hadn't been coined yet, but it existed. 419 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:41,640 And that was what I was trying to breakthrough, was I wanted my 420 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,440 peers to know. You don't. 421 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,600 Have to be perfect. And actually, the vast majority 422 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,160 of the people here are struggling, and you're not alone 423 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,800 if you are not having the time of your life right now. 424 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,360 And if we can break that open and we can have this everyday 425 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,520 conversation about mental health, it opens up this idea 426 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:03,280 that, oh, I can struggle, struggle and also be successful, 427 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:04,600 right? That was the message that my 428 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,600 brother had never gotten in his mind once he got his diagnosis 429 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,120 of his mental health disorder. To him, that was a life 430 00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:14,360 sentence. He could never be the, you know, 431 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:18,240 Dean's list graduate, superstar person that he had seen himself 432 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,640 being because he had this mental health disorder. 433 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,000 And what he needed was a role model to say, yes, I also have 434 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,120 schizoaffective disorder or I've also struggled with depression. 435 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,880 And I'm going to graduate and I'm going to be a really 436 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:33,680 successful at whatever I want to be. 437 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,680 Those messages didn't get out there. 438 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,440 And I think what we see often in environment like Penn is this 439 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,040 idea of perfect or nothing. And the whole idea of active 440 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,280 minds of mobilizing around mental health is to say you are 441 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,800 still somebody even when you struggle with your mental health 442 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,320 because we all struggle with our mental health. 443 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:52,760 We all just don't all talk about it. 444 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,600 And these struggles happen across socioeconomics said It's 445 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,120 across demographics, across gender identity, with different 446 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:03,760 groups of people who research is showing are impacted even more 447 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,560 than others. But it's not just one type of 448 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:09,320 school and it's not just one type of student who struggles 449 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,360 with their mental health. And that that's what this is 450 00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,040 about is whatever it is, it is impacting you. 451 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,480 Let's talk about it and let's get you whatever the support 452 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:21,080 that you need in that moment in order to be able to be that 453 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,680 successful person that you desire to be for yourself and to 454 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:25,840 be able to thrive. And that looks different for 455 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,160 everybody. Yeah, I think that was one of my 456 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,400 biggest realizations going home the first couple of times from 457 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,600 college. It's like everyone is having 458 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,440 really similar experiences. Everyone is missing home. 459 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,520 Everyone is trying to build that new friend group and meet new 460 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,440 people and it's overwhelming and stressful. 461 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,080 Everyone stressed about their midterm coming up. 462 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,640 Everyone's like slightly sleep deprived. 463 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,120 Unfortunately, like all of those are the same. 464 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:52,160 And maybe there's some big things, like maybe your school 465 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,520 is a big a sports school and a lot of your social interactions 466 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,360 revolve around that. Maybe you're in Greek life, 467 00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:58,880 maybe you're not. There's those types of things, 468 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,640 but generally the subjective experience is really similar 469 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,000 across the board, which is very important to remember. 470 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,000 I think also what you mentioned is so interesting. 471 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,320 We have such a gap between psychology research and what we 472 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,200 know about mental health, and then what the general population 473 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,160 is actually aware of and internalizes. 474 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,840 And the fact that we know the majority of adults will be 475 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,200 diagnosed with a mental illness at some point in their life. 476 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,360 Not just that they have mental health or that they'll struggle, 477 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,120 but they'll be diagnosed. And that's believed to be an 478 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:30,240 underestimation. So if you're not diagnosed or 479 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,720 you're not struggling, you're you're the minority. 480 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,120 You're not in that majority of people that at some point have 481 00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:39,840 that that tough spot or have this thing that they're dealing 482 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,480 with it in their day-to-day lives. 483 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,560 And most people just aren't aware of that and they still 484 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,040 internalize it. Like you're saying that like 485 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,320 this is going to affect the trajectory of my life and this 486 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:51,320 is going to have a really big impact on my future. 487 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,320 I want to talk about some of these like, I don't know, 488 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,000 warning signs would be the right term. 489 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,880 But I think to implement the ASK framework, it's really important 490 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,720 to be aware of people acting different and what to keep an 491 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,760 eye out for. I think especially for parents 492 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,520 who have never had a teen before and they're like, what is 493 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,360 happening? I don't know what to look for. 494 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:15,040 And I think also as a teen and as a young adult, when you've 495 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,400 never had friends struggle before, you don't know what to 496 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,080 look for. It's very confusing and 497 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:20,560 overwhelming. And you're like, are they just 498 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,000 in a a different period of time? Maybe their personality is a 499 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,880 little bit different or is something actually wrong? 500 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,080 So I'd love to get your guys this thoughts on what people can 501 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,040 be aware of and when they then should go and implement the ASK 502 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,560 framework. And if they're younger, if 503 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:36,880 they're in middle school or high school, potentially loop in a 504 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,960 trusted adult. Yeah, that's a a really great 505 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,680 question. Middle school is hard already, 506 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,400 right? And so you add in just like what 507 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,280 middle school is puberty, right? It's just, it's weird, it's 508 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,160 wonderful, it's awkward, it's fun. 509 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,760 It's it's all those things, right? 510 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,960 And so from like a developmental side of, of things, we go 511 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,480 through a lot at that age and we're trying to figure ourselves 512 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,360 out. And I was recently talking to a 513 00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:06,520 parent who sort of asked the same question. 514 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:11,760 And you know, I think for for parents and caregivers is you 515 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,800 can use Oscar as an everyday tool. 516 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,800 You don't have to use that. Just when you see something 517 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,120 happening or you kind of think something is happening, you can 518 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:22,240 use those same steps just to check in. 519 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,480 So kind of like how Allison said, when somebody asks you how 520 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,720 you are, answer how you are. We have to learn how to be 521 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,560 honest in answering that question because I think as a 522 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,080 society, we've gotten away from that. 523 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:36,640 Right? And so for parents and 524 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,040 caregivers, it is that checking in, Like, hey, how's it going? 525 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,480 Hey, I saw that you just chucked your school bag down at the door 526 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,840 and didn't open it. Did you have any homework? 527 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,680 You know, like, is there anything in me? 528 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,360 What's happening? Right. 529 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,640 And and I get it, there is this dynamic between parents and 530 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,600 children and especially when you are of that age, you're like, 531 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,360 stop bothering me. But I think for parents and 532 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:04,040 caregivers, it's like not to stop, right? 533 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,160 To continue. And maybe you learn how to ask 534 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,080 the questions a different way and how to check in different 535 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,840 ways. But, you know, it's like if you 536 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,520 did just Chuck the backpack at the back door and then just take 537 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,440 off. OK, What there's more to this? 538 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,360 Giving them a minute to kind of like, you know, collect 539 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:24,040 themselves and then going up to them a little bit later and be 540 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,480 like, hey, I just, you know, kind of chucked that a little 541 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,320 hard. You know, like, how was your 542 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,680 day? Did you have lunch? 543 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,480 Who did you sit with? And and being able to ask those 544 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:38,120 kinds of questions to kind of unpack, not in a sneaky way, but 545 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,240 in a different way. That doesn't just be like, 546 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,240 what's going on, right. That's the thing that I think 547 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,400 you have to do. And then you have to keep that 548 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,000 going. You, you have to consistently do 549 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,000 that. So again, it's just not this one 550 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,360 and done. And I think for parents and peer 551 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,040 groups, they do this, but it does get maybe a little more 552 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,040 challenging as their children grow up because they are far 553 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,680 more independent. They're leaning on their peer 554 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,640 groups a lot more. And I think that's where having 555 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:08,080 an active Minds chapter really helps sort of also come at it 556 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,000 from a different level because you have that peer-to-peer 557 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,840 opportunity where you can have a student group that you are part 558 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,440 of that you are talking about mental health and really 559 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,280 thinking about like, what are the warning signs? 560 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,320 You know, like, OK, hey, Allison stopped coming to the active 561 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,520 Minds chapter meeting on a consistent basis. 562 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,520 Maybe I should call Allison and see what's what's going on, 563 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,680 right? You know, it's just paying 564 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,640 attention to like these little cues that somebody is starting 565 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,880 to just sort of slowly withdraw, right? 566 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,360 So it's not showing up to an active Minds chapter meeting, 567 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,520 not doing their homework on a consistent basis or opening up 568 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,280 their backpack when they come home, you know, cuz there's 569 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,240 homework, right? There's always some sort of 570 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,280 homework, but it's like paying attention to those little pieces 571 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:56,000 you to talk about sleep, right? We also know that you need sleep 572 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,360 to grow as teenagers. You need sleep. 573 00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:01,440 So it's it's understanding like teenagers need a lot of sleep to 574 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,160 grow, but where is the too much sleep coming in to play? 575 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,720 And like how do we check in on that? 576 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,640 So I think you always have to sort of be aware that you have 577 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,880 to like ebb and flow. You have to move through and not 578 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,760 feel so rigid when you're asking the question, when you're just 579 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,120 checking in, right? It's paying attention to some of 580 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:25,720 those everyday behaviors that are just small indicators that 581 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,120 could increase into something larger. 582 00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:30,480 And you want to be able to pay attention to them before they 583 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,120 get into that larger piece. So I think that's probably the 584 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:38,280 advice that I would give most folks and that doesn't feel too 585 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,200 hard to like really conceptualize and utilize on the 586 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,840 day-to-day. So hopefully that feels 587 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,960 manageable for most folks. And, and we've gotten feedback 588 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,000 that it does, right? Like that consistency and, you 589 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,560 know, lighten it up, like bring in humor, go do something. 590 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,880 You don't have to feel so robotic and rigid just to check 591 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,960 in and to pay attention. I especially think that it is a 592 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,240 lot easier to like disclose things to your peers than it is 593 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,600 to your family. I think it's just our nature, 594 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,400 right? Because it just feels like we're 595 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,400 not burdening our families at that degree. 596 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,600 And so it's a lot easier. So as friends, we do take a lot 597 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,120 of that on our shoulders and that could impact what we're 598 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,400 also going through. So it's also being able to 599 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,800 ensure that you're available for folks, but then you're also 600 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:28,560 taking care of yourself because sometimes that can be very 601 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,520 overwhelming as well. And that could impact your own 602 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,280 mental health if you're the one that everybody comes to and 603 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,680 like, oh, Lauren, you're so strong. 604 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,520 You're the strong friend. You hear all the OK, great. 605 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,280 But can you check in on me every once in a while because yeah, it 606 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,240 is a lot, right. So also I think being aware of 607 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,200 like who in your friend group do you go to and also checking on 608 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,040 that personally consistent basis because it it's a two way St. 609 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,520 for sure. You mentioned chapter meetings, 610 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,760 if people don't have an active Minds chapter at their school 611 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,960 and they'd like to learn a little bit more, can you guys 612 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,280 give us kind of an overview of what it looks like to get 613 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,440 involved and also opportunities if there isn't a local chapter? 614 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,800 All the things related to advocacy and active minds 615 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,200 specifically. Yeah, so the chapters are what 616 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,360 we call our student LED mental health groups and that's what 617 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,160 Allison really started when she was at Penn and then really how 618 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,640 she started Active Minds. And so we have about 600 Active 619 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,480 Minds chapters across the country and they're student LED 620 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,200 mental health clubs essentially. And all you need is at least 621 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,880 three students and an advisor to start the chapter. 622 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,760 That really follows a lot of high school and college club 623 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,200 requirements. If you want to start a student 624 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,160 club in your school, you need to register at your school. 625 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,080 So you need to ensure that the charter is an officially 626 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,800 recognized student organization and then you just fill out a 627 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:59,000 registration form on the Active Minds web page and our chapters 628 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,840 team will send you sort of an onboarding kit for high schools. 629 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,960 We have a free student facilitated curriculum that they 630 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,520 can use as their program guide. So instead of being like, Hey, 631 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,600 we, we just started this club. Now what do we do? 632 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,880 We have this, this discussion guide that students can use 633 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,880 that's peer-to-peer. They have subtopic areas like 634 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:22,680 social media and mental health. And then it's all discussion 635 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,560 based where they can use that as their chapter meeting. 636 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:32,120 And then, you know, they can create events, they can bring in 637 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,520 speakers. Active Minds has a number of of 638 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,920 speakers that actually share their own mental health stories. 639 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,200 So you can bring in an active mind speaker as part of your 640 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,120 chapter work. But it's really easy to start. 641 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,880 So there is a list of all of the chapters on our web page. 642 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,360 So if you're not sure if your school has one or not, you can 643 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,600 check that out. So you can kind of see, oh, 644 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,600 well, I didn't know that Penn had a had a chapter. 645 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,640 Great, then you can kind of see find out where their meetings 646 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,040 are. But if you don't have a chapter, 647 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,840 it's really easy to start and then you're part of our network. 648 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:08,280 And so once you register, we host sort of workshops and we 649 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,720 have a lot of resources for our chapter members and our leaders. 650 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,920 We have a newsletter that we send out to all of our students 651 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,160 in our network and it's every other week. 652 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,480 Through that newsletter, we're always highlighting new 653 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,720 resources or or opportunities to get involved in active minds and 654 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:26,880 beyond, right? It's not just about like what 655 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,120 Active Minds is doing, but in the field of mental health, we 656 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,400 partner with a number of organizations across the country 657 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,720 at the at the national level and at the state level. 658 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,880 So say you're really are are interested in say telling your 659 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,960 story and advocating for state policy. 660 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,640 We can probably connect you with a lot of those state policy 661 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,400 leaders who are trying to affect change at the local level where 662 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,160 you could go and testify or or tell your story to some elected 663 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,000 official. So those are the types of things 664 00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,680 that our chapters do. So it's not only about this 665 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,720 education and awareness, but also this advocacy piece and 666 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,800 wanting to really change policies or advocate for 667 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,080 resources or funding even that Go chapters can actually do a 668 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,000 little bit more at your school campus. 669 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,840 I want to touch on policy and schools. 670 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:23,080 What are you guys hoping to see in the next like 5-10, twenty 671 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,440 years as far as shifts in policy and how we approach mental 672 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,880 health and middle schools, high schools, college, etcetera? 673 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,840 What are you guys working towards? 674 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,760 It's a great question. I think the, the first thing I 675 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,240 always think about is money. So we need a lot more money. 676 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,920 I mean, I think just in healthcare in general, you know, 677 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,880 access to mental health care, there's still a lot of barriers 678 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:51,720 to somebody accessing care for themselves, right? 679 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,480 And so I think a little bit of that is we need to do a better 680 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,880 job of educating people about what is out there already and 681 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,560 how they actually access the healthcare system because the 682 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,640 healthcare system is scary. It's big, it's complicated, 683 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,880 right? So I think there's an education 684 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,880 piece that we need to be part of. 685 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,440 But then from like the policy and financial side of things, it 686 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,159 how do we actually develop a pipeline on Black, Indigenous 687 00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:21,120 and people of color therapists that actually are going into the 688 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,960 mental health workforce, right? Because we know that a lot of 689 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,880 our communities of color, when they don't see themselves 690 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,560 represented in the healthcare system, that adds a layer of 691 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,320 hesitancy and, and distrust, right? 692 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:39,440 And so having more of an opportunity to get folks into 693 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,199 the field of mental health from a clinical standpoint, I think 694 00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,840 is, is one thing. And then I think with the 695 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,320 funding also comes like, what kinds of programs can schools 696 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,440 actually tap into? You know, it's great that you 697 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,920 can have an active minds chapter, but how is your school 698 00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,160 funded? Is the funding actually 699 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:03,560 supporting increasing the counseling center or increasing 700 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:05,520 the resources around mental health? 701 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,840 Because again, you don't always have to think about mental 702 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,800 health from the clinical side of things, but it's just, you know, 703 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,120 from a school culture side of things. 704 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,000 Where is that support? So I think those are the first 705 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,400 two things that I really think about and where we really need 706 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,280 to head over the next five years. 707 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,200 And I think we're starting to incrementally see some of that 708 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,480 shift. I think the White House and the 709 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,120 Biden administration has put a lot of effort and funding into 710 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,800 mental health, which has been lovely, which is great. 711 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,840 It's never enough, right? So like, we constantly have to 712 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,880 be advocating for more, but it's a huge, huge step in the right 713 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,840 direction. Allison, what would you add? 714 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:44,960 Yeah. I think what you've said, 715 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:46,960 Lauren, is great. And I think one of the things 716 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,800 that's been really interesting for me to see and and to learn 717 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,400 is when we think about mental health and especially when we 718 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,920 think about policy change, folks often just think about clinical 719 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,280 care. We need to increase the number 720 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,640 of counselors and it that is critically important. 721 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:01,720 We need to increase, we need to diversify. 722 00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:04,760 We need to make sure counselors are available to folks in the 723 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,520 modality that they are able to reach them. 724 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,680 So not everybody can drive to a therapist. 725 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,480 Not everybody has insurance to cover a major therapy 726 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:13,800 appointment. So what are the ways that people 727 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:18,080 can access care? But also, if we only think of it 728 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:22,680 in terms of the treating those who have either hit rock bottom 729 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,920 because we know folks aren't getting help until too late, 730 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,200 then we are missing a whole opportunity to kind of take this 731 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:29,680 public health approach to mental health. 732 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,040 And those are the pieces, as Lauren was saying, that I think 733 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,560 is so important. That data shows that when a 734 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:37,560 youth or young adult feels as though the environment around 735 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:38,920 them cares about their mental health. 736 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,440 So if their school cares in mental health or college does 737 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,040 whatever it may be, they are actually more likely to reach 738 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:46,000 out for help. They are more likely to have 739 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,800 positive mental health. And so as we look at policy 740 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,520 changes, we need to continue to look at policy change as it 741 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,360 relates to a public health approach to mental health and 742 00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:00,560 not just a clinical intervention treatment for people with severe 743 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,920 mental illness. And and again, I, you know, as 744 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,960 somebody whose brother had severe mental illness, I hear 745 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,880 and I feel it deeply. And also there were three or 746 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,960 four years where he could have been getting a different level 747 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,520 of support before we got to that point. 748 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:18,280 And we are going to reduce the burden on our clinical care, we 749 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,280 are going to reduce the burden on our counseling centers if we 750 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,120 can continue to take this public health approach. 751 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:25,520 So everything from, you know, there was the introduction of 752 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:30,600 988 last year, which is a public health shift in how we used to 753 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,360 have to think about a 10 digit number to call mental health 754 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,560 number. No, now it's just 988, just like 755 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,320 you call 911 because you know what, your mental health is just 756 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,480 as important as your physical health and safety, and we're 757 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,640 going to make this number just as easy to remember. 758 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,840 So now with the introduction of 988, let's make sure the 988IS 759 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,120 printed on the back of student ID card alongside the blue light 760 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,880 phone number and other crisis. You know that the police, 761 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,440 because you know what, at a school, your mental health 762 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,880 matters just as much as your physical health and your safety 763 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,600 does. What other kind of public health 764 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,040 approaches, which is to mental health, where is this 765 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,520 programming? Where are we ensuring that there 766 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,720 is mental health programming in health education classes? 767 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:08,280 Where are we ensuring that there's mental health in first 768 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,120 year orientation in college? Where are we ensuring that 769 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,920 there's a mental health parity within the workplace? 770 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,800 So new employees, young employees understand where to go 771 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,800 to get mental health support in addition to how to, you know, 772 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,040 get the support for their physical health. 773 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,480 So really looking at the policies that bring mental 774 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,000 health to the same level, bring parity to mental health, the 775 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,680 same level of health and safety issues, I think is a really key 776 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,920 important part of this conversation that we can and 777 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,280 we'll be pursuing over the next few years. 778 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:42,560 Can I add something? Yeah, I think the other piece to 779 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,200 that, I think Allison, you're spot on. 780 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:49,040 But the other piece to that is how would mental health being 781 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,680 embedded in other policy issues as well? 782 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,400 So when you think about gun control, we know that this 783 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,280 generation of students has all been affected by gun violence, 784 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,320 right? So when we think about gun 785 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,800 control, when we think about climate change, right, how is 786 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:08,160 mental health also being woven into that narrative as well? 787 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:11,800 Because we know that like all of those things really affect our 788 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,920 mental health. So I think it's, yes, it needs 789 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,880 to be like part of a stand alone policy priority, but there are 790 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:22,160 other priorities where mental health can actually be embedded 791 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,520 into that framework as well. And I think that's the piece 792 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,200 that is sometimes missing that we talk about it in these 793 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,840 separate boxes where actually it's very intersectional in some 794 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,520 ways, right? And we can't talk about gun 795 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,560 control without talking about all the other layers to that. 796 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,480 And mental health is a big piece of that. 797 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,400 I love that so so so important. If people want to learn more 798 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,200 about Active Minds and follow along with the work you guys are 799 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,280 doing, where can they do that? Yeah. 800 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,280 So they can go on to activeminds.org. 801 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,920 That is our web page. You can sign up for our 802 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,200 newsletter. Even if you don't have an Active 803 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,560 Minds chapter where you haven't started working with us or 804 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,320 participating in our program. Anybody can sign up for our 805 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,400 newsletters. That's probably the first place. 806 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:11,240 As well as following us on all the social media because our 807 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:15,280 newsletters, like I said, are always updated and highlighting 808 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,520 new ways to join us and be part of our programs. 809 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,720 So that's probably the first place to start. 810 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:22,840 And then our programs are all listed there. 811 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,040 So you can actually kind of dig in and see what our full menu of 812 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,880 offerings are. And then if you have particular 813 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,240 question, say about chapters, you can actually fill out an 814 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:35,560 inquiry form and then connect with our team and we'd be happy 815 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,360 to connect with you and kind of do a a deeper dive as needed. 816 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,600 Incredible. Well, thank you guys so, so much 817 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,880 for this conversation. I know so many people are going 818 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,160 to be so impacted by it and really motivated to get 819 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,880 involved. So thank you guys for taking the 820 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,360 time. Such a pleasure, thanks for 821 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:52,960 having us.