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Welcome to she persisted I'm 
your host Sadie Saxton a 19 year

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old from the Bay Area studying 
psychology at the University of 

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Pennsylvania. 
She persisted is the Teen Mental

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Health podcast made for 
teenagers by a team in each 

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episode. 
I'll bring you authentic 

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accessible and relatable 
conversations about every aspect

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of mental Wellness. 
You can expect evidence-based, 

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Tina, proof resources, coping 
skills, including lots of DBT, 

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insights and education. 
In each piece of content, you 

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consume, she persisted Offers 
you a safe space to feel 

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validated and understood in your
struggle. 

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While encouraging you to take 
ownership of your journey and 

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build your life worth living. 
So let's Dive In. 

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Hello. 
Hello, and welcome to. 

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She persisted. 
I am so excited for today's 

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episode. 
I mentioned on Instagram stories

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that this episode is like kind 
of late. 

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I got on a terrible schedule 
where I was releasing episodes 

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like Thursday, Friday and 
Saturday and are up late day is 

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Tuesday. 
So I took a couple of days off 

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and held this episode until this
week's that work back on 

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schedule and it's a good one. 
So, I think it's well worth the 

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wait. 
But before we get into this 

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conversation with Liz and Molly 
about all things emotions, I 

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wanted to give you a Midsummer 
check it catch up. 

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I'm starting to think about the 
fall semester and how I'm going 

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to organize and plan and stay 
balanced. 

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I definitely am. 
Going to make sure that my 

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morning of my night routine are 
staying super consistent. 

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Sleep is still a huge priority, 
really a lot more walking and 

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saying consistent with working 
out so that I am still motivated

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and tired. 
When I go to bed, which is a 

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huge thing for me. 
I'm really excited to get back 

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to Philly. 
Get back into my routine. 

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See friends, get back into the 
schedule of school. 

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It's been so nice to have a 
break, so I didn't Feel burnt 

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out and overwhelmed through the 
whole summer but I'm also 

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excited to get back into the 
rhythm of school and podcasting.

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And that structure, I've been 
doing a lot of reading of two 

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books that I want to recommend 
to you. 

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That I've read the summer that 
our mental health related in 

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addition, I've also been reading
lots of romance novel novel. 

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So if you have recommendations, 
DM, me, I want to hear them, but

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the mental health books are 
building a life worth living by 

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Marsha, Linehan. 
It is her Memoir. 

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So it's her entire life story. 
And Marsha Linehan is the woman 

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that started Electrical 
behavioral therapy. 

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And she actually started at 
because she herself struggled 

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with suicidal, ideation 
emotional distress. 

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All of that kind of stuff. 
And she spent some time in a 

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really terrible mental hospital 
a really long time ago. 

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And from that, she really wanted
to create a compassionate 

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effective evidence-based 
treatment for patients, that 

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were really struggling to find 
treatment to be effective. 

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And so that's how DBT was born 
and it's such an amazing story. 

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It's so inspiring and it's just 
so good. 

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So if you are DBT fan, I highly 
recommend reading that because 

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she puts the skills in the book.
But it's also about her journey 

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with spirituality and how she 
really wanted mindfulness to be 

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a part of DBT. 
And what her mental health, 

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looks like when she was 18, 19, 
20 and at the lowest of lows in 

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the hospital and I'm leaving 
that starting to work in 

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research, all of that kind of 
stuff. 

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So really good. 
The second one I've mentioned it

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before, but Atomic habits 
everyone uses. 

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It's in some way. 
And if you want to improve 

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habits, or you just want to stay
consistent or understand how to 

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be more effective and creating 
habits. 

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I highly recommend. 
You read that, it's by James 

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Clear. 
It's literally applicable to 

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every aspect of life, whether 
you want to learn to play an 

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instrument or be more consistent
with working out or be better at

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studying. 
All of these things, come down 

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to habits and consistency and he
breaks down the sides of habit 

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building in a really easy to 
understand why there's lots of 

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great Doats. 
And if yeah, if you are 

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struggling to build habits, you 
want to see a change somewhere 

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and let your life and your like,
I don't really know how to do 

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this. 
Highly recommend, I'm sure 

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you've seen it on Tick Tock, but
it is amazing. 

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And I wanted to bring those up 
because we have authors on the 

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podcast today. 
We have Liz and Molly. 

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The authors of big feelings how 
to be okay, when things are not.

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Okay. 
They're also the authors of the 

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Wall Street Journal bestseller, 
no hard feelings. 

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The secret power of embracing 
emotions at work. 

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So for all of my book worms, 
myself included, these are three

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books that are applicable to any
aspect of a life of Life 

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emotions. 
I mean maybe not the DPT one but

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emotions have it setting and 
then just learning about DBT 

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Marsha because who doesn't love 
that? 

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But yeah that's kind of how 
things have been going. 

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I am thinking about doing more 
solo episodes on the podcast. 

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So I would love to have your 
feedback on that. 

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You want to listen to more solo 
episodes. 

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What do you want to hear more of
what? 

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Topics, do you want me to dive 
into? 

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Do you want more Q&A? 
Ask me, anything? 

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Advice tile episodes. 
Do you like these interviews? 

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Let me know. 
And to wrap up this intro, you 

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should follow on Instagram at 
at. 

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She persisted podcast because 
I've been working on some merch 

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for the podcast, and I'm very 
excited to share that with you 

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soon. 
So, with that, Our guests today 

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are Liz and Molly. 
They are the co-authors of no 

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hard feelings and their second 
book. 

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Big feelings, how to be okay 
when things are not okay, which 

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we really dive into in this 
interview, we discuss why the 

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seven big feelings which are 
burnt out. 

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Perfectionism comparison, 
uncertainty, anger, regret and 

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despair are so difficult to 
navigate and tips to work 

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through them. 
Why it's so important to 

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identify the emotions, you're 
feeling tips to lean into the 

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emotional experience to 
understand what your emotions 

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are trying to tell you. 
Recovering from suicidal 

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ideation and what to say to 
someone in this headspace and 

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lastly, any advice on supporting
someone struggling with these 

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feelings. 
So I do want to give a trigger 

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warning. 
We do talk about suicidal 

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thoughts and suicidal ideations 
a bit after, I would say the 35 

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minute mark, That's not 
accurate. 100% because I am 

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going to add the ads in this 
intro and so if you listen to 

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after the 35 minute, Mark, if 
you that is a trigger point for 

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you, just be aware of that up 
until that totally fine. 

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We talked about all these other.
ER topics but I would cut it off

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around there after we talked 
about regret. 

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So that is your point to stop 
listening. 

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If that is something that hits 
home for you, listen, Molly, do 

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mention this in the episode, but
their website is Liz and 

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Molly.com allies, eand mmol/l 
IE.com, and their Instagram is 

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the same. 
So at listen, Molly and Liz as a

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phenomenal illustrator, she is 
so talented with creating 

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Graphics that accompany these 
really difficult to address 

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topics. 
Like Burnout and overwhelm and 

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relationships and anxiety. 
So if you were looking for some 

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amazing drawings, in your 
Instagram feed that are mental 

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health-related, I highly 
recommend following her, and 

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there's a ton of them in the 
book as well. 

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So loved that so much, I always 
love when books have charts and 

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graphs to explain things Atomic 
habits, does that, and it's 

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great. 
So that's the intro for this 

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week. 
We're just going to dive in 

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because this conversation is a 
great one and I'm so happy that 

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listen Molly reached out and 
came in the podcast. 

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So with that, make sure to 
subscribe. 

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Is that you don't miss next 
week's episode. 

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Thank you for listening and 
let's dive in. 

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Thank you guys so much for 
joining me today and she 

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persisted, I'm so excited to 
have you on the show and dive 

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into all things emotions. 
It's something I'm super 

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passionate about and really 
doing the emotion education and 

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understanding what happens when 
emotions arise, why they arise 

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the functions that they're 
surveying and really just doing 

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that education piece was a 
game-changer for me and 

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navigating those big heavy 
emotion. 

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So I'm so excited to bring this 
conversation to my audience. 

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Thank you for having Be here, of
course. 

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So before we get started, I 
would love for you guys to share

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with listeners just a little bit
about their your book where they

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can get it. 
The process that would into 

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writing that as a little bit of 
a foundation so that they know 

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where they can dive into. 
So much more depth on this 

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conversation, I can start and 
lose can jump in. 

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So, we wrote this book, it's 
called Big feelings. 

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How to be okay? 
When things are not okay, it 

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came out at the end of April and
we had published our first book 

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called know, Hard feelings, 
which is all about emotions at 

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work and that came out in 
February 2019. 

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And after we wrote that book, we
realized actually there are some

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really hard feelings. 
We both went through really 

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difficult moments in our lives, 
which we can talk more about and

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we wanted to understand how do 
you work through these big 

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feelings. 
You are really honest in the 

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book that there's not like a 
magical checklist or a shortcut 

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that you can indeed work through
them. 

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And so we share our stories, we 
share some of our readers 

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stories and we talked, Experts, 
you can find it on Amazon, you 

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can find it on Bookshop. 
Dot-org and we are Liz, and 

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Molly mmol/l. 
IE. 

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We are on Instagram at Liz and 
Molly and our website is Liz and

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Molly dot-coms. 
You can find the book there as 

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well, amazing. 
So you guys outline seven 

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different emotions that can be 
especially difficult to navigate

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that you've learned both from 
your own experiences. 

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And in all this research, you 
did for this book, I would love 

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to kind of break those down and 
talk about why those Motion. 

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Specifically can be so difficult
difficult to navigate how you 

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can be more effective and 
educated. 

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When navigating those, I'd also 
touching on your own experiences

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there. 
So, we started out with many 

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more than 7, but we kind of came
up. 

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I think it was a list of maybe 
10 to 12 initially. 

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And again, this is based on 
Molly and my experiences just 

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things that we had grappled 
with. 

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And then we started turning to 
readers who would read our first

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book, and our audience on 
Instagram, and people who read 

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our newsletters Just to really 
serve a them and start talking 

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to them about which of these 
also resonate with you because 

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we wanted the book to be broadly
useful and also keeping in mind 

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Molly and I are two white women 
kind of both of them, 

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California. 
So we just we wanted to make 

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sure we were hearing from a 
range of people. 

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And what we found that was 
interesting was the, the seven 

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that we ended up with which 
include things like burnout 

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uncertainty, comparison, despair
really seems to invoke the 

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biggest responses from people 
and we've gotten questions 

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around like comparison is not 
really an emotion. 

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That's necessarily a feeling but
was interesting is when we asked

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people about Envy which is the 
emotion, that comparison creates

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they didn't have a strong of a 
response, but then when we said 

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things like, well, do you 
compare yourself people? 

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There was this overwhelming 
outpouring of like yes, this is 

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I struggle with this so much so 
think it speaks to how often we 

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In such an emotion phobic 
society that even if we can 

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identify the behavior that we 
are engaging and we still are a 

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little removed from the emotion 
that that behavior leads us to 

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feel. 
So we really wanted to meet 

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people where they were, which is
also why we chose words like 

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perfectionism uncertainty, as 
opposed to, you know, fear of 

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failure or anxiety, which are 
truly the emotion. 

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So that's a little behind why we
ended up with those seven that 

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are in the book. 
Yeah I think it's really 

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interesting and even just 
identifying In those at face 

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value, what you're experiencing 
can be really powerful. 

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I think what you're talking 
about with people having that 

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really emotional response, when 
you name, what they're 

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experiencing shows, how 
effective that can be and 

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becoming in touch with the 
emotion when you're trying to 

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suppress and avoid and not 
totally address what you're 

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navigating. 
And I remember at many points, 

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during my mental health Journey,
what I was working on was just 

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acknowledging, like, what 
emotion was coming up and trying

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to look internally being like, 
okay. 

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Is this like apprehension or is 
this anxiety? 

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And Really getting very 
specific. 

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Because once you know what 
you're actually experiencing, 

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it's a lot easy to address it 
and work through it. 

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Starting off. 
I think with burnout as a great 

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one that I think a lot of people
are experiencing right now. 

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We are sort of like, still in 
this weird limbo period with 

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covid, burn out with something 
that many, many people have 

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experienced. 
Why is that so difficult to 

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emotionally navigate? 
And why is that one of the 

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things that you chose to 
highlight or not? 

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Is something we hear about all 
the time and yet it can be 

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really difficult. 
To recognize in ourselves. 

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The reason for that is that a 
dangerous aspect of burnout is 

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that at affects our own 
self-awareness so it can 

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actually feel really good to be 
on the verge of burnout. 

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Like I'm getting things done, 
I'm crossing things off my list,

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you know, in the context of 
being at school you're like okay

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I'm in finals but everyone else 
is in finals. 

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We're all in it together. 
And it's only, you know, after 

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we get sick or after we come up 
for air or something else gets 

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added on to our plate that we 
really hit that Wall and we lose

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the adrenaline. 
And, you know, I remember this 

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after, you know, periods of 
burnout, especially in school 

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where I was, so glad to have 
something like a summer break, 

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but we need that. 
If we don't have that and we 

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don't say, okay, I'm going to 
give myself some time after 

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finals and go directly into a 
really intense job. 

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We end up not being able to 
actually like let the stress out

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of our system. 
So there's there's research that

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shows. 
It's really important to let 

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that stress. 
Cycle fully happen. 

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It's natural for us to go 
through periods of stress, but 

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we need to then return to that 
rest and digest part of the 

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cycle. 
And a lot of times, we force 

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ourselves to skip that. 
So, the number one thing you can

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do is look out for the early 
warning signs and the one that 

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I'll share first because I think
it really helps. 

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People think about this in a new
way, is sometimes it can feel 

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like you would like to get sick,
not like covid sick, but just 

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like have a cold. 
So you are forced to shut down 

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Because it's so hard to force 
yourself to take a break and 

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when you're in a place where 
you're like, wanting to be sick,

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that's not super healthy. 
But some of the other things are

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that you feel that everything is
overwhelming, even things like 

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going to the grocery store, you 
find people really irritating. 

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You're saying yes, to things 
that you should be saying no to.

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And so if we don't recognize 
these early warning signs, and 

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they're hard to recognize, 
right? 

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Because it's not, you know, 
they're not things that we have 

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to recognize. 
That's when we Get in trouble. 

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00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,900
And we spoke with somebody who 
is an expert on helping people 

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recover from burnout. 
And one of the things that he 

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00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:10,700
shared was he said sometimes, 
life Taps you on the shoulder 

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with a feather and sometimes it 
runs you over with the truck and

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00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:17,500
we need to learn to listen to it
when Taps you on the shoulder 

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with a feather. 
So that's that's part of 

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something that that Liz and I 
have both worked on getting 

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00:14:22,900 --> 00:14:24,900
better at. 
I think we still, it's still 

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really difficult and we both 
have gone through periods of 

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00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:29,500
burnout. 
Yeah. 

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00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:33,200
Elizabeth you mentioned another 
one of the difficult emotions of

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sorts to work through his 
perfectionism and I think that 

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is something that really goes 
hand in hand with with burnout 

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00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,200
and I've noticed from my own 
experience, my friends and peers

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00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,100
that do have those 
perfectionistic. 

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Tendencies are the ones that 
have voiced feeling burnout and 

301
00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:50,600
being more prone to that towards
the end of the semester, the end

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00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,500
of the year during a stressful 
period. 

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00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,800
What are what's your advice? 
They're like, is the the goal to

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00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,800
become on the other end of the 
spectrum? 

305
00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,600
Like a Buddha, not be a 
perfectionist. 

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00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:02,900
Stories it just like coping 
through that emotion, giving 

307
00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:04,800
yourself more grace. 
What's your advice? 

308
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,300
Yes, I think it's really 
important for us to clarify that

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00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:12,500
a lot of people who are 
perfectionist, don't identify as

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00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:15,700
perfectionist because they think
they're so far from perfect. 

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00:15:15,700 --> 00:15:18,600
That there's no way that this 
could describe them and 

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00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,800
perfectionism. 
Sometimes people have a hard 

313
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,800
time distinguishing between 
perfectionism and being a 

314
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,600
healthy striver. 
So healthy striving is like I 

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00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,800
want to get 100% on this final. 
All I got a 96 percent, I feel 

316
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,300
really good about that 
perfectionism is I got a 96 

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00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:39,100
percent and I'm going to beat 
myself up for that one question,

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00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:42,100
I got wrong and I'm going to, 
like, just obsessed over it and 

319
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:45,500
feel terrible about myself. 
So, perfectionism is really 

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00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:49,300
about a fear of failure. 
It's not, it's actually not 

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00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,500
moving towards quote-unquote 
Perfection. 

322
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:55,200
Because that's like, if I asked 
you what your perfect day is, it

323
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,600
would probably be different than
what my perfect day is. 

324
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,200
So it's very subjective. 
So I think I think the first 

325
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,700
thing is really to understand 
that perfectionism is not 

326
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,600
helping you move towards your 
goals. 

327
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,000
It's actually holding you back 
because it makes you so anxious 

328
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,200
and Afraid. 
And it's this like scarcity 

329
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,400
mindset. 
Where you think this is the only

330
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,600
opportunity I'll ever have. 
I need to do this, I need to 

331
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,600
keep pushing myself and that's 
just not the way life works. 

332
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,300
So if you could, as you said, 
give yourself more grace, give 

333
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:28,100
yourself the brakes that you 
need. 

334
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:29,500
You'll actually be more 
successful. 

335
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,000
Awful in the long run and it is 
some of it takes this belief 

336
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,200
that there will be cool 
opportunities for you beyond the

337
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,000
one that's currently in front of
you. 

338
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:43,800
And then a very specific thing 
that I found really helpful is 

339
00:16:43,900 --> 00:16:48,000
starting to identify when you 
find yourself using the words 

340
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,600
always and never. 
So I like so often will find 

341
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,400
myself thinking, you know, a 
good manager. 

342
00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,300
Good employee is never late to a
meeting or Always has the 

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00:17:00,300 --> 00:17:03,000
answers and the world is just 
not. 

344
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,099
That's those extremes are not 
helpful, like a good student 

345
00:17:06,099 --> 00:17:08,900
doesn't always get 100% adjust, 
you know? 

346
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:11,700
Like sometimes I have a bad day,
sometimes they just don't do 

347
00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:14,800
well on the exam. 
So moving away from seeing the 

348
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,700
world and these like 
black-and-white extremes and 

349
00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:20,800
instead saying, I'm going to 
give myself Grace. 

350
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,000
I did the best I can, there's 
still opportunities for me to 

351
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:29,400
improve but this one moment 
doesn't Define my holes. 

352
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,500
Self worth it doesn't Define who
I am forever. 

353
00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:35,900
Yeah, comparison. 
I feel like that's one of the 

354
00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:38,400
biggest Buzz words right now. 
The number of times I've seen 

355
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,700
comparison is the thief of Joy 
on my Instagram feed this week. 

356
00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:44,600
I couldn't even tell you, but 
it's me that so many of us 

357
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,200
struggle with and I think that 
is partially our society. 

358
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,600
It's partially like that 
perfectionist mindset that we 

359
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,700
do. 
Many of us hold ourselves to and

360
00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:55,800
it is so difficult to work 
through because it does bring 

361
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,700
out all these other emotions 
whether it's like jealousy or 

362
00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:01,700
anger sadness, A skilled. 
All of these things can come 

363
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:04,100
from jealousy. 
And we we did touch help touch 

364
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:05,500
on how it brings up and me as 
well. 

365
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:10,000
But why is comparison something 
that is so difficult to work 

366
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,100
through and to move away from 
comparison is a little bit hard 

367
00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:17,800
wired into us. 
So I think we can start there. 

368
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,400
It's we think that oh you know 
we'll get off social media and 

369
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,100
we'll be free of comparison. 
But unless you're living, you 

370
00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:28,100
know, Off the Grid you will 
always be able to be in contact 

371
00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:29,500
with someone whether you're 
getting a text message. 

372
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,800
Message from someone or running 
it into them at the store or 

373
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,300
seeing them online and your 
class. 

374
00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:36,200
And so we we can't say to 
ourselves. 

375
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,500
The goal is to just stop 
comparison and actually 

376
00:18:38,500 --> 00:18:42,500
comparison helps us figure out 
who we are so it can be helpful 

377
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:44,700
to us. 
We're not the only species who 

378
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:46,600
are Guided by comparison. 
There's really interesting 

379
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,700
research with monkeys where if 
the monkeys are together and 

380
00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:52,400
they're getting fed and one 
monkey gets a better piece of 

381
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,900
food than the other, the others 
are really unhappy. 

382
00:18:55,900 --> 00:18:59,500
So this is this is really hard 
hardwired, so a couple things 

383
00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:03,600
There is this idea that we 
should compare ourselves less to

384
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,400
other people and we want to 
challenge that and say actually 

385
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,600
you should compare yourself more
but thinking, but think more 

386
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,600
broadly about who that group is,
who you are comparing yourself 

387
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,800
to. 
So a lot of times we were only 

388
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,200
engaging in upwards comparison, 
which is comparing ourselves to 

389
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,700
people who we believe are better
or have something better than us

390
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:25,500
in some way and we're not 
comparing ourselves to people 

391
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:29,300
who don't have what we have. 
There's also something about, 

392
00:19:29,300 --> 00:19:32,700
you know, Listening to what 
those those triggers are. 

393
00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:35,200
So if we say I'm, you know, I 
shouldn't be feeling jealous. 

394
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,100
I shouldn't be feeling envious 
of this person. 

395
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,100
When we shut that down. 
We're actually not learning from

396
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,000
whatever that is, which can help
us. 

397
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,300
Make decisions. 
So we have the example in the 

398
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:47,800
book, Gretchen Rubin who is the 
author of a book called The 

399
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,100
Happiness Project. 
She was a lawyer. 

400
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:52,800
She went to law school. 
And then after she went to law 

401
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,300
school, she had a really 
prestigious career she clerked 

402
00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:59,000
for the Supreme Court, and then 
she was looking through her law 

403
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,400
schools. 
No magazine one day and she 

404
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,100
realized that the people who she
was most envious of were not 

405
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:08,300
lawyers, they were writers. 
They were lawyers who became 

406
00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:10,100
writers. 
And so, she said that's really 

407
00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:12,100
interesting. 
I think I should become a writer

408
00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:14,800
and if she had to shut that down
and said, I shouldn't be 

409
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,600
thinking that, you know, I need 
to move on to wouldn't have 

410
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,900
gotten that. 
So, asking yourself, what do 

411
00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:23,400
they have? 
That makes me feel less than is 

412
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,400
there a way that I can get that?
And maybe it's not that exact 

413
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,300
thing. 
Maybe it's telling yourself. 

414
00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:34,700
Oh, there's a piece of that, 
that I that I want and Liz Liz 

415
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:37,400
has a great story up at this 
from her own career that I'll 

416
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,100
let her share. 
Yeah, I had a friend who are 

417
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,800
like, a friend of a friend who 
got a promotion and she start. 

418
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,500
I think she started managing, 
like, 200 people this enormous 

419
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:53,300
department, and I Molly, and I 
are both proud introverts, but I

420
00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:56,000
just like hate being in 
back-to-back meetings. 

421
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,800
It's very stressful to me. 
It's just not my ideal day. 

422
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:01,600
The idea. 
Having 200 people and their 

423
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:06,100
families depend on me is 
incredibly anxiety-inducing and 

424
00:21:06,100 --> 00:21:10,100
so it's just like I've never 
aspired to like lead 200 people 

425
00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:14,000
and yet, when I heard about this
promotion, I was I was just so 

426
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,700
jealous and I didn't understand 
where that was coming from 

427
00:21:17,700 --> 00:21:20,000
because I was like, this is I 
know this is not who I want to 

428
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,200
be like, do I know myself at 
all? 

429
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,000
Like should I change my whole 
career? 

430
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,000
It's good. 
It's like my knot on each other,

431
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,700
right? 
And I went to bed that night, 

432
00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:35,200
this is my advice to everyone is
like just sleep on it, just go 

433
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,600
to bed, see how you feel in the 
morning? 

434
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,000
And when I woke up the next 
morning, I realized that. 

435
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:44,200
No, I didn't want that job. 
But I did feel kind of stagnant 

436
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,000
in my own career and I just, I 
kind of wanted to have something

437
00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:51,000
exciting to tell the world that 
was happening to me. 

438
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,100
And so what that allowed me to 
do was figure out okay, like 

439
00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:58,000
what in my life, could I have a 
conversation with my manager 

440
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,500
about a new exciting? 
Should I try to push myself to 

441
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:04,600
learn something new? 
Just how can I put some more 

442
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,100
excitement into my own life and 
feel like I'm making progress? 

443
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,900
But I don't like my personality 
has not changed and I certainly 

444
00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:14,800
don't need to frantically start 
applying to these like jobs that

445
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,400
I will passionately hate if I 
actually got them. 

446
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:19,800
Yeah. 
No I think that's interesting. 

447
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,800
And I think I'm so I'm very 
indecisive but once I also like 

448
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,500
to make decisions so I'm like I 
want to be in control but I 

449
00:22:26,508 --> 00:22:29,800
don't really always know what I 
want and so it makes me Gov like

450
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,900
the age-old question of like, 
okay, what are we doing for 

451
00:22:31,900 --> 00:22:34,000
dinner, like which restaurant 
you want to go to? 

452
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,500
And one of my friends and I were
talking about this like a week 

453
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:38,700
ago and she was like, okay we're
going to make the decision and 

454
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:41,300
then if you have an emotion 
about it you know what you want.

455
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,900
And it's the best trick because 
you immediately Rod like okay 

456
00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:48,100
this is fine or you beg. 
No I actually don't want so like

457
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:51,100
looping someone and be like okay
make this decision for me and 

458
00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:52,600
then I'm going to see how I feel
about. 

459
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,100
It can be really helpful in 
getting in touch with those 

460
00:22:55,300 --> 00:22:58,000
emotions that can come with 
comparison but they're kind of 

461
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,700
hard to like feel out. 
Exactly what they are. 

462
00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:03,600
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So it's very similar to this 
restaurant on certain, see 

496
00:24:35,500 --> 00:24:38,300
unknown. 
Let's dive into that uncertainty

497
00:24:38,300 --> 00:24:42,100
is a huge thing and I think it's
one of what I could identify as 

498
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:46,700
one of the most uncomfortable 
emotions that I feel and like 

499
00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:50,400
internally, like I like being in
control being out of control is 

500
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,100
something that is very 
anxiety-provoking. 

501
00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:56,000
Why is uncertainty? 
So difficult for people to deal 

502
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,400
with and how have you guys 
recommended that people navigate

503
00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,000
that? 
Yeah. 

504
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,200
So, Humans are hard-wired to 
hate uncertainty, like there's 

505
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,200
research that shows we would 
rather know that something bad 

506
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:11,000
is going to happen tomorrow at 1
p.m. that have like a maybe that

507
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,700
they may be happen, even though 
that's sort of a better 

508
00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:14,700
scenario. 
Yeah. 

509
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:19,200
So one of the things that you 
just touched on is we often in 

510
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,500
the face of uncertainty, we feel
like we want to control 

511
00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:25,000
everything. 
So we start doing what 

512
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,800
psychologists call anxious 
fixing and this was like my life

513
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,000
for Once before I figured out 
what was going on and I would 

514
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:36,900
wake up and feel just anxiety 
about the future and I would 

515
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:39,300
just do stuff. 
I would vacuum the floor, I 

516
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:43,400
would do the dishwasher I would,
whatever like do my email, I 

517
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:47,100
would respond to every message 
on every social media platform 

518
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,600
and just like work myself into 
this frenzy because I could 

519
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,200
control everything. 
And at the end of the day, what 

520
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,300
I found was that I had done all 
this stuff but I didn't feel 

521
00:25:56,300 --> 00:25:58,300
better. 
I felt worse actually felt burnt

522
00:25:58,300 --> 00:26:01,300
out and part of That was because
I had worked myself into 

523
00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:05,100
exhaustion without ever 
addressing the source of my 

524
00:26:05,100 --> 00:26:07,300
anxiety. 
So, I think it's really 

525
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:13,200
important to kind of suffer 
through the moment of realizing 

526
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,200
that you cannot control the 
future. 

527
00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:18,500
And that it's like, okay, I'm 
going to sit with this anxiety 

528
00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:21,200
instead of running myself into 
the ground and I'm going to 

529
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,600
really try to figure out like 
what am I actually afraid of 

530
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,400
happening because often we just 
push that aside and aside but 

531
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,800
when we really could confront 
our fears, we can start to 

532
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,000
figure out a path forward. 
We can sometimes they don't even

533
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,300
seem like they're that scary but
it allows us to at least start 

534
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:42,600
to take actions that help us 
address those needs as opposed 

535
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,400
to like, you know, organizing 
your bookshelf 15 times which is

536
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,000
not really good to put for you 
and it feels good in the moment.

537
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,200
And then one last thing that 
I'll share, I think it's such a 

538
00:26:53,208 --> 00:26:56,600
powerful phrase that has been 
really comforting to me over the

539
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:02,600
past couple of years is I'm a 
person learning to so let's say 

540
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,600
that you are taking a new class 
or something. 

541
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,200
Instead of saying like I need to
know everything, I have to get 

542
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:12,000
an A I have to have a good 
answer to every question. 

543
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,100
Just like I'm a person learning 
to do well in this class or to 

544
00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:19,900
participate in conversations. 
I'm a person learning to make 

545
00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:24,400
new friends because it allows 
you to give yourself more grace 

546
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,400
and see yourself as someone who 
can improve. 

547
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,500
Who should just be open? 
A feedback as opposed to this 

548
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:35,400
like very perfectionist mindset 
of I need to have everything 

549
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,800
figured out right now which is 
just a completely unrealistic 

550
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,900
expectation to set for yourself.
Yeah I think that's so true and 

551
00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:45,900
I love what you mentioned about 
sitting with like the in 

552
00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:49,700
certainty because until you 
accept that the uncertainty is 

553
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:53,200
happening and then kind of 
unpack like why that's so scary.

554
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:56,500
You're like, forcing yourself to
be uncertain about the 

555
00:27:56,500 --> 00:27:58,700
uncertainty. 
And then you're, yeah, it's so 

556
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:01,400
much Worse. 
There's this skill in DBT, 

557
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,800
dialectical behavioral therapy 
called Copa had, and it's where 

558
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,700
you like, imagine the worst case
possible scenario. 

559
00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:11,600
And you like fully walkthrough 
and mentally cope through and 

560
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,000
give yourself a plan for how 
you're going to navigate that. 

561
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,600
And it's one of my favorite 
things to share in the podcast. 

562
00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:20,400
Because if you are uncertain 
about like college admissions, 

563
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,300
for example, and you're like, 
okay worst-case scenario, I 

564
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:25,700
don't get in anywhere. 
It's like okay, you go to 

565
00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:28,600
Community College, you can work 
really hard. 

566
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,300
Transfer to an amazing school 
and how are you going to deal 

567
00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:34,200
with opening? 
Those rejection, letters? 

568
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,700
What emotions are going to come 
up? 

569
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:38,600
How are you going to cope with 
it the night of the day after? 

570
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,900
What stops you going to take? 
And you're no longer uncertain 

571
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:43,600
about how things are going to 
proceed. 

572
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,100
And so it's really an amazing 
skill and it's something that 

573
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:50,700
can be so helpful, navigating 
that uncertainty, because you 

574
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:53,300
take the power away from the 
unknown. 

575
00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:56,700
And yeah, I'm probably not going
to get into no colleges. 

576
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:58,700
You're probably not going to 
have to go down that route but 

577
00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:01,900
Does happen, you know exactly 
how you're going to deal with 

578
00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:03,800
it? 
Hmm, I love that. 

579
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:07,000
And I think, you know, say to 
you, you do such a great job, 

580
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,000
talking about this and I know 
you have other episodes on your 

581
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,200
podcast for you, you do share 
your story of, you know, having 

582
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,100
anxiety and those tools are so, 
so helpful, another tool I want 

583
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:20,900
to share is just having an 
understanding of your own 

584
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:25,100
tolerance for uncertainty. 
So many people have actually 

585
00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:26,700
different tolerances for 
uncertainty. 

586
00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:30,400
And I think sometimes our 
society Arises people who are 

587
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,200
like I can tolerate any amount 
of uncertainty. 

588
00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:37,500
My husband, who I met in 
college, you know, he loves 

589
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,900
variety and he's dying. 
He's never wants to know what's 

590
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:42,800
happening in the future, and I'm
a little bit different on that 

591
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,100
Spectrum, but we have an 
assessment on our website and in

592
00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:49,300
our book and they can help you 
understand your own uncertainty 

593
00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:52,800
tolerance profile. 
But I think it's okay to say to 

594
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,300
yourself. 
You know, I'm dealing with a lot

595
00:29:56,300 --> 00:29:58,400
of uncertainty. 
Are there ways that I can add 

596
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,100
more Certainty into my life 
because that is something that I

597
00:30:02,100 --> 00:30:04,500
value. 
And even you know, if you're 

598
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:07,300
waiting for colleges to get back
to your you're applying to jobs,

599
00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:09,600
you know, these moments where 
you can't add, you know, 

600
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,900
necessarily you can't know 
what's going to happen. 

601
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,700
Maybe there are other ways to 
add more certainty in your life 

602
00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:16,600
by saying. 
Okay, I'm gonna like eat the 

603
00:30:16,608 --> 00:30:18,900
same thing for breakfast every 
morning because that's going to 

604
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:22,200
be a grounding moment in my day 
when everything else is up in 

605
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,900
the air. 
And also just to know that like 

606
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:28,000
how much uncertainty you want 
can change over the course of 

607
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,600
your life. 
So so I remember in high school 

608
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,500
it was like I just really wanted
to know you know what my future 

609
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:35,200
look like and I wanted that 
certainty. 

610
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,100
Where was he going to college? 
What was I going to do with my 

611
00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:39,400
life be like what was I gonna 
end up with? 

612
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,300
You know it's like you want 
answers to all these questions 

613
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:44,000
and then I feel like in your 
20s, there's a period where 

614
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,000
you're like, I don't want to 
know what I'm going to do for 

615
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,300
the rest of my life, because I 
want to do everything and I 

616
00:30:50,300 --> 00:30:52,700
don't want to shut down all 
these possibilities and then, 

617
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,500
you know, now, Liz and I are in 
our 30s and it's like, well, it 

618
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:58,600
is sort of nice to have some 
some certainty. 

619
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,900
Because you're having to set up 
and pay for your retirement and 

620
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:05,000
all these things. 
So it will shift and there's 

621
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,800
going to be moments when you 
want more on less certainty. 

622
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:09,900
Yeah. 
I think that's such a great 

623
00:31:09,900 --> 00:31:13,000
reminder and it's something that
is really helpful to be mindful 

624
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,100
of because again, you can go 
into these situations and know 

625
00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:18,700
like what your point is where 
you're like. 

626
00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:21,000
Okay, I got to cope with this 
emotion before it gets any 

627
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,100
bigger, and that's different for
everyone. 

628
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:25,800
I think another emotion that's 
also very subjective and can be 

629
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,100
so all over the place. 
Depending on who you are and the

630
00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:33,800
situation you're in is anger and
it's I a lot of the times. 

631
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,900
Do you think that's like the 
biggest emotion? 

632
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:38,400
Because it's a lot of the times 
an external motion. 

633
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,100
It's one, you see in Conflict. 
It's when you see in 

634
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:44,100
interactions with other people, 
where is like comparison. 

635
00:31:44,100 --> 00:31:48,000
It's very internal burn out a 
lot of the times you don't have 

636
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,500
like a physical representation 
of that. 

637
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:54,900
Whereas anger, we see a lot, 
especially and teens and younger

638
00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:57,300
people and in adults as well, 
why is that? 

639
00:31:57,300 --> 00:31:59,800
Such an like overwhelming 
Experience. 

640
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,300
I know there's so many 
evolutionary reasons for that. 

641
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:04,400
But what are your guys thoughts 
there? 

642
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:10,400
Yeah, so I mean, anger is again,
this is a hardwired emotion and 

643
00:32:10,500 --> 00:32:16,000
it does help us advocate for 
things that we care about. 

644
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,800
So I think we're taught that 
anger is just like, you know, 

645
00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:24,100
oh, I'm frustrated at someone 
else, but there's a reason that 

646
00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:27,600
you're frustrated about someone 
else in your having a biological

647
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,600
reaction. 
So where it's like something has

648
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,300
been violated. 
Either you have been violated or

649
00:32:33,300 --> 00:32:36,600
something that you really care 
about has been violated and 

650
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,000
there are, I believe secondary 
emotion. 

651
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,800
Yes, exactly, exactly. 
So, there's probably even some 

652
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,100
fear there, you know, underneath
that anger, there's fear of 

653
00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:48,000
something being taken away or 
something bad happening when 

654
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,000
you're in the moment with anger,
is really important to give 

655
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,400
yourself a little bit of space 
to identify what those deeper 

656
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,600
May emotions are, which usually 
means not like immediately. 

657
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,400
Acting. 
And so you can say something 

658
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,600
like I'm having a strong 
reaction right now and I need to

659
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,800
take some time before I respond 
to you, but it is really 

660
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,700
important to follow up with the 
person to come back to the maybe

661
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:13,800
that's ten minutes later, maybe 
it's the next day and say, you 

662
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,900
know, let me talk to you about 
what was going on there, why? 

663
00:33:16,900 --> 00:33:20,300
I was feeling angry but but 
talking about it in a way that's

664
00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:22,700
not getting emotional. 
So we need to learn how to talk 

665
00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:25,100
about our emotions without 
yelling or getting emotional 

666
00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:28,000
about them, which is like 
lengthening that time between 

667
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,400
the the Sure. 
And the response but for for 

668
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,500
many women and people 
identifying as women we have 

669
00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:37,000
been socialized to say, okay, 
I'm just going to suppress that 

670
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,700
and I'm not going to come back 
to that because that's not an 

671
00:33:38,700 --> 00:33:40,400
emotion that I'm supposed to 
feel. 

672
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,500
But we look again, we lose we 
lose out on all that data about 

673
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:47,600
there was something that felt 
violated and that's something 

674
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:49,400
that we need to pay attention 
to. 

675
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:54,500
I think there's also, you know, 
sometimes we feel like we want 

676
00:33:54,500 --> 00:33:57,200
to vent about something and 
that's a good way to deal with 

677
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,200
the anger. 
It's like, oh, I'm so angry At 

678
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,800
this person because she did this
and you don't tell the person 

679
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,100
directly but then you go off to 
another friend and you like vent

680
00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:07,700
about it and sometimes hunting 
can make us feel better. 

681
00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:11,900
But often it just leads to sort 
of what the chronic rehashing of

682
00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:15,400
the situation without actually 
changing the situation because 

683
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,900
you're not talking to the person
directly about it. 

684
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:21,100
And it can be difficult for the 
the other person to just listen 

685
00:34:21,100 --> 00:34:23,100
to you vent. 
I mean, that's an emotionally, 

686
00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:25,199
that's emotional laborers, 
listening to someone, I'll 

687
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:28,900
spend. 
And so instead of venting We 

688
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:32,199
like to say, you know, how can 
you go back to the person of the

689
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:34,500
situation that caused the anger 
and try to deal with the root 

690
00:34:34,500 --> 00:34:37,500
cause of that? 
And again, that anger is going 

691
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:39,500
to be fuel for you to go do 
that. 

692
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,699
It's like, it doesn't feel good,
but it's telling you something 

693
00:34:42,699 --> 00:34:45,500
needs to change. 
Yeah, yeah. 

694
00:34:45,699 --> 00:34:48,800
I think it's also, it's, you 
know, there's I found myself in 

695
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,500
situations to wear first. 
I think it's just to emphasize 

696
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:55,500
Molly's Point. 
Like, it's so important to 

697
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:58,000
recognize your anger. 
I think a lot like a lot of 

698
00:34:58,008 --> 00:35:00,900
people we I was like, oh, I just
don't get angry and then we 

699
00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:03,900
would talk them that scenarios 
and they would be like, oh yeah,

700
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:05,600
that was a violation or you 
bring right. 

701
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,200
They listen to them this for 
anchoring. 

702
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,100
Yeah. 
Totally. 

703
00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:12,400
This every single day, but they 
just don't want to self-identify

704
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,800
as an angry person. 
Because again, it's such a 

705
00:35:14,808 --> 00:35:19,000
stigmatized emotion, especially 
for women or people identify as 

706
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,000
women. 
And so, I think it's just like, 

707
00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:24,700
just letting yourself be okay 
with that feeling and sitting 

708
00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:29,000
with it and then also, you know,
unfortunately there There are 

709
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,800
going to be circumstances where 
it's actually not the best thing

710
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,100
for you to go talk to that 
person directly, or you have 

711
00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:39,300
talked to them, and they just 
don't care and that's sort of 

712
00:35:39,300 --> 00:35:43,300
like a terrible but realistic 
part of life. 

713
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:46,900
And so, then the question is, 
like, what do I need for myself 

714
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:48,800
in this moment? 
And maybe it's, I just need to 

715
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,700
draw a boundary around this 
person, so I think it's also 

716
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:57,700
important to be out kind of 
recognized If you try to make 

717
00:35:57,700 --> 00:36:00,600
things better and they don't get
better and you find yourself, 

718
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:05,300
still angry seeing like ways to 
indirectly meet the need that 

719
00:36:05,300 --> 00:36:07,100
you have. 
And again, that might be like, 

720
00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:10,600
putting yourself in a different 
situation cutting someone out 

721
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,700
for a while. 
At least I think those are 

722
00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:16,100
really important steps to to 
have to like just set those 

723
00:36:16,100 --> 00:36:18,400
boundaries for yourself. 
Yeah. 

724
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,900
The the Common Thread that I 
think we keep coming back to is 

725
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:24,700
that like these emotions are all
trying to tell you something 

726
00:36:24,900 --> 00:36:27,800
like with anger. 
It's that there there is that 

727
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,700
Primary Emotion that is 
secondarily making you angry 

728
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:35,100
like there's that need to change
something whether there is fear 

729
00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:37,600
underneath whether it's 
insecurity or sadness. 

730
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,900
Anger is trying to get you to 
change the situation comparison.

731
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,400
You feel again that you wish 
something was different 

732
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,100
uncertainty. 
There's a fear that you're 

733
00:36:46,100 --> 00:36:48,400
really worried about potentially
happening. 

734
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,200
It's we I feel like we forget 
that that emotions are trying to

735
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,900
tell us things like we just It's
part of Being Human, but they 

736
00:36:56,900 --> 00:37:00,300
really do serve a purpose and if
we listen to them, it can be 

737
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:02,900
really effective. 
And it can also be a lot less 

738
00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:05,200
uncomfortable to experience 
them. 

739
00:37:06,900 --> 00:37:11,700
Yeah under prison yeah the 
second-to-last emotion 

740
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,700
experience that you guys. 
Outline is Regret. 

741
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,300
I feel like it's one of those 
that really goes hand in hand 

742
00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:19,100
with rumination a lot of the 
times. 

743
00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:22,500
And I is that one of the reasons
why it's such an uncomfortable 

744
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:25,800
motion to experience. 
Or are there other things that 

745
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,500
came into play? 
When you guys were researching 

746
00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:33,700
and exploring regret? 
Yeah, regret is extremely 

747
00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:39,400
painful especially in the 
scenarios where you can't change

748
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:43,300
the situation, right? 
So there's like I regret kind of

749
00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:46,100
being rude to my husband or 
whatever, but then you know, 

750
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,400
there's like a 99.9% chance. 
I can just apologize and make it

751
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,900
better but there's like I regret
not telling my loved one that I 

752
00:37:53,908 --> 00:37:56,800
lost something and I'd there 
just no way to fix that. 

753
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,500
And so I think it can be this 
like, extremely painful. 

754
00:38:00,700 --> 00:38:04,100
Ocean, which is also why we 
often try to run from it. 

755
00:38:04,700 --> 00:38:08,000
And it's interesting to watch 
those, you know, I think we were

756
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,700
all familiar with the like 
hashtag. 

757
00:38:09,700 --> 00:38:11,500
No. 
Regrets live a life of No 

758
00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:14,800
Regrets. 
And it's important to say you 

759
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,800
will have regrets because you 
can only live one life. 

760
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,600
So if you let's say you're 
choosing between two amazing 

761
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:26,000
colleges, it's totally normal. 
You have to pick one and then 

762
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,300
you might think from time to 
time. 

763
00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:29,900
Like, what if I gone to the 
other one, especially like on 

764
00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:32,900
days, when You're struggling or 
when things aren't so great. 

765
00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:36,300
So just the fact that we have to
pick a path for ourselves means,

766
00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:39,600
you're going to have regret, 
they're not inherently bad and 

767
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,400
so even though they're painful 
they also really helped us make 

768
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,700
meeting in the future. 
So for example, I share a story 

769
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:53,200
in the book where my grandma 
died when I was in my 20s and my

770
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,800
parents are immigrants. 
And so I just went to my 

771
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,300
grandma's house, a lot growing 
up and it was kind of this 

772
00:38:59,300 --> 00:39:02,500
connection to the Extended 
family that I didn't know that. 

773
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:07,000
Well, I'm the only one in the US
and when she died, my mom asked 

774
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,200
me if I would go with her to 
clean out my grandma's house and

775
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,600
kind of like help sell it. 
And I don't know, I just like 

776
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,900
didn't go. 
I was like I can't get on an 

777
00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:20,900
international flight right now. 
I have so much going on at work 

778
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,400
and that is like thinking about 
my mom alone and that house is 

779
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,000
like horrendous for me. 
Like I just feel so much shame 

780
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,900
for having made that decision. 
Yeah, but sitting with that and 

781
00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:35,800
realizing how much I regretted 
it a year ago. 

782
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,300
My dad was having heart 
problems. 

783
00:39:37,300 --> 00:39:39,900
I just dropped everything and 
immediately went home because I 

784
00:39:39,908 --> 00:39:44,200
was like, I never, ever want to 
regret putting work over family 

785
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,100
again. 
And so, I wish that I had made a

786
00:39:47,107 --> 00:39:49,300
different decision, right? 
Like I wish that I hadn't 

787
00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:53,300
learned this painful lesson and 
yet it really does. 

788
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,200
There's also anger in there at 
myself, like it does give me the

789
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,100
strength. 
Now, when the people I love need

790
00:39:59,100 --> 00:40:02,200
me, I'm just This is the 
priority. 

791
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,900
This is what I will always pick 
because I don't want to 

792
00:40:04,908 --> 00:40:09,900
experience that regret again. 
One, one thing I want to share 

793
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:13,300
about regret is that I think 
sometimes we blame ourselves 

794
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:16,300
because we think why didn't I 
make a different decision than? 

795
00:40:17,100 --> 00:40:21,200
And for the most part we made 
the best decision that we could 

796
00:40:21,300 --> 00:40:23,600
there are times when we talk in 
the book about different types 

797
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,800
of regret and sometimes we do 
something called self-sabotage 

798
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,700
regret which is where we know in
the moment that we shouldn't be 

799
00:40:29,700 --> 00:40:31,700
making this decision, but we do 
anyways. 

800
00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:35,600
But for the most part, it's sort
of a like you didn't know in 

801
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,800
some way. 
And now you do, you know, I 

802
00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:41,000
Think about this, we've talked 
about choosing colleges a couple

803
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,500
times on this and I think, you 
know, I am very happy with the 

804
00:40:44,508 --> 00:40:46,700
decision that I made. 
I met my husband in college. 

805
00:40:46,700 --> 00:40:50,400
I've met many wonderful friends.
I think in many ways though, 

806
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,400
choosing to go to college on a 
on the different coasts from 

807
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,800
where I grew up, made my life, 
more complicated, it meant that 

808
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:58,500
I was further away from my 
family. 

809
00:40:58,500 --> 00:41:01,500
I stayed further away from my 
family and I, you know, my life 

810
00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:03,100
is more complicated than it 
would be. 

811
00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:06,900
If I had just never left my home
City and I was talking to my 

812
00:41:06,900 --> 00:41:10,400
sister about that. 
One day and she said but you 

813
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,600
like you know you wouldn't be 
you if you hadn't made that 

814
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,800
decision and like you know, you 
made that decision because you 

815
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,100
wanted adventure and you wanted 
something different and so like,

816
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,000
you know, that was a decision 
that you made it 17, that was 

817
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,400
the best decision for you, then 
and of course, you could have a 

818
00:41:25,408 --> 00:41:27,900
different life. 
But it's like reminding yourself

819
00:41:27,900 --> 00:41:30,700
that, you know, you weren't 
trying to, to cause yourself 

820
00:41:30,700 --> 00:41:33,200
pain, or make things more 
complicated, you are. 

821
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,400
Weighing the costs and the 
benefits and you are making the 

822
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,000
best decision in the moment. 
And No, 10 years later you're 

823
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:42,100
going to see things that you 
didn't see then that can be 

824
00:41:42,100 --> 00:41:45,200
helpful to to then decide. 
You know what do you want to do 

825
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,000
about it now? 
So you know tool is this point I

826
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,500
can see I can look at that 
regret and say well maybe I want

827
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:54,400
to live closer to my family now 
and I did two years ago. 

828
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:55,900
I moved to be closer to my 
family. 

829
00:41:55,900 --> 00:42:00,000
Maybe I want to simplify my life
in ways that I can now rather 

830
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,800
than saying you know, I never 
should have gone to school and 

831
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,100
on the opposite Coast for my 
family because there's no way 

832
00:42:05,100 --> 00:42:07,700
that I can change that. 
Yeah, it's interesting. 

833
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,900
Resting and I really like that. 
You highlighted how you can get 

834
00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:14,400
a motion. 
Allows you to understand really 

835
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,500
where your values and priorities
lie and make decisions going 

836
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:20,500
forward. 
But it's also I think a really 

837
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:24,200
painful emotion because while 
anger is urging you to make a 

838
00:42:24,207 --> 00:42:27,000
decision to decrease the 
emotional intensity that you're 

839
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,700
currently feeling with regret, 
you're having an emotion that 

840
00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:31,600
something about something that's
already happened. 

841
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,400
Like you can't change that 
experience. 

842
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,900
You can't change the decision 
that you've made and with that 

843
00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:38,600
comes a lot of helplessness and 
That's something that's really 

844
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,700
difficult and I think that makes
regret and guilt. 

845
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:46,500
So, so painful and really 
overwhelming because you do have

846
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:49,200
that helplessness that 
uncertainty which I think a lot 

847
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,400
of the times going right into 
the next emotion, you guys 

848
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,000
outlined can lead to despair 
because you're like, what do I 

849
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,700
do? 
How can I move forward? 

850
00:42:56,700 --> 00:43:01,100
I just you you again are really 
in that like helpless victim had

851
00:43:01,100 --> 00:43:04,200
space with a lot of the times, 
is kind of where you you need to

852
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,600
sit for a bit before moving 
forward to Molly, I know you. 

853
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,600
Mentioned in the book and also 
when we were talking before this

854
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,100
recording about your experiences
with Despair and I think a lot 

855
00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:16,600
of the times it goes 
hand-in-hand with experiencing 

856
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,000
depression and so I'd love to 
hear your experience there and 

857
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,600
the Insight that you gained 
from. 

858
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,600
Navigating that yes, I'm happy 
to share and I will give a 

859
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,700
little warning. 
I'm going to talk about Suicidal

860
00:43:26,700 --> 00:43:31,000
Thoughts. 
So despair is actually the most 

861
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,300
recently defined emotion that we
talk about in the book. 

862
00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:37,700
It was not clinically defined 
until 2020 out. 

863
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:42,200
Really and the there seven 
indicators, it's feeling 

864
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,300
hopeless, having low self-esteem
feeling, unloved, whirring 

865
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:49,800
frequently, loneliness 
helplessness, and feeling sorry 

866
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,100
for oneself. 
And some of those indicators do 

867
00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:56,300
overlap with the diagnostic 
criteria for major depression or

868
00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:59,200
generalized, anxiety disorder. 
But the last three so 

869
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,900
loneliness, helplessness 
feeling, sorry for oneself. 

870
00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:05,300
Those are not symptoms of any 
other specific psychiatric 

871
00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:07,700
Disorder. 
So in other words just bear it. 

872
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,900
Volvo's feeling depressed and 
anxious but piling on feeling 

873
00:44:10,900 --> 00:44:13,900
hopeless and unloved and 
helpless, and sorry for yourself

874
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,900
and that really pushes it over 
into the intensity of Despair 

875
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,600
and fall of 2019. 
If I had looked at that list, if

876
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,000
that list had existed, which it 
didn't, I would have checked off

877
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,600
all seven of those indicators 
and you know what got me there. 

878
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,900
I had, you know, I had no 
history of depression. 

879
00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:36,600
I was 32 at the time and I was a
pretty upbeat person and I lot 

880
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:37,700
of things happen. 
I had been dealing. 

881
00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:41,600
With chronic pain for months, I 
had an experimental procedure 

882
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,400
done that made the pain worse. 
Doctors didn't believe that I 

883
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,700
was in pain. 
I just moved from New York to 

884
00:44:46,700 --> 00:44:48,500
LA. 
I was feeling really lonely and 

885
00:44:48,500 --> 00:44:51,700
no friends, my husband and I 
were ready to start trying to 

886
00:44:51,707 --> 00:44:54,500
have a kid but my period of gone
away because of stress. 

887
00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:57,700
So it was possible to get 
pregnant and I wasn't sleeping 

888
00:44:57,700 --> 00:45:01,700
at all. 
And I just I said I can't go on 

889
00:45:01,700 --> 00:45:04,400
my life is too painful. 
I don't want to keep living. 

890
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,200
I didn't particularly want to 
kill myself but I just really 

891
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,100
didn't want to be alive anymore.
And those thoughts were 

892
00:45:11,100 --> 00:45:14,700
extremely scary because I had no
idea what to do with them. 

893
00:45:14,700 --> 00:45:16,900
I knew that sharing them with 
other people. 

894
00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:20,400
I thought would be really 
dangerous because I, you know, I

895
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,200
never discuss these things with 
other people. 

896
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:27,200
And and what I what I wanted was
more stories of people who had 

897
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,400
had suicidal thoughts and had 
worked through them because I 

898
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,800
think there's a lot of stories 
that we hear about in the media 

899
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,200
of people having suicidal 
thoughts and acting on them and 

900
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:37,700
I'm glad that those stories 
exist. 

901
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,900
Because it's really important to
share those as well as painful 

902
00:45:41,900 --> 00:45:44,600
as they are. 
But I think, you know, there's 

903
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,200
there needs to be more stories 
of people having these thoughts 

904
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,400
and being able eventually to go 
through periods where they don't

905
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,000
have those thoughts anymore or 
they don't have those thoughts 

906
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,200
as frequently. 
So they're not disrupting their 

907
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,500
lives as much as they were. 
And it's difficult for me to 

908
00:46:00,500 --> 00:46:03,100
share this, you know, especially
thinking about, you know, like 

909
00:46:03,100 --> 00:46:07,500
my cousins hearing, you know 
this story but for me working 

910
00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:10,400
through It was really about 
finding, the right medication, 

911
00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:13,900
which was helpful meeting with a
therapist I've met with a 

912
00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:17,300
therapist, like twice a week. 
I mean, I really needed to talk 

913
00:46:17,300 --> 00:46:21,100
to someone that that much and 
then slowly opening up to my 

914
00:46:21,100 --> 00:46:24,000
husband and my friends about 
what I was feeling and having 

915
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,100
them be able to say like, okay, 
you know, we hear that, those 

916
00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:30,300
are scary emotions but we're 
here for you and, you know, 

917
00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:31,700
that's okay. 
It's okay. 

918
00:46:31,700 --> 00:46:33,500
That you're having those 
thoughts, it's not okay that you

919
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:34,700
act on those thoughts, but it's 
okay. 

920
00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:37,700
They were having those thoughts 
and it was a very slow. 

921
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,400
Process. 
And I talked about this in the 

922
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,600
book it started with with really
like chunking time and this is 

923
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,300
true for a lot of the emotions 
in the book like all you have to

924
00:46:46,300 --> 00:46:49,200
do is get through the now so it 
wasn't even about getting 

925
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:52,200
through the day. 
It was like okay it's 4 p.m. 

926
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,000
I can go to bed at eight pm. 
Can I get through the next four 

927
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,500
hours? 
Yes, I can be awake for another 

928
00:46:57,500 --> 00:47:01,800
four hours and then slowly 
starting to do things again. 

929
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,300
So there were days and weeks 
where I like you know I couldn't

930
00:47:04,300 --> 00:47:06,000
do anything. 
I just didn't want to get out of

931
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,600
bed and then it was like, Okay. 
You know, I went to the 

932
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,600
drugstore and previous version 
of Molly, would be like, okay, 

933
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,100
that's all you did today. 
You went to the drugstore like 

934
00:47:15,100 --> 00:47:17,000
compared to what you used to be 
able to do. 

935
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,600
It was like no. 
Like that's a very small thing 

936
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,300
that I did and I did go to the 
drugstore and collecting those 

937
00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:25,500
things over time and it's 
falling into despair. 

938
00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:27,700
Feels like falling into a 
bottomless pit. 

939
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:29,600
And it's like, well, how deep am
I going to go? 

940
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,600
I have no idea how deep I'm 
going to go and that's really 

941
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,000
scary coming out of it is like 
throwing. 

942
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,700
It's a climbing a wall and it's 
like throwing a pick against the

943
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,800
All and it's like, maybe not 
that pot high above you, but 

944
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,500
it's one pic and then, like, 
slowly and slowly working your 

945
00:47:43,500 --> 00:47:46,300
way up. 
And for me, the thoughts, then, 

946
00:47:46,300 --> 00:47:48,700
you know, went from being like, 
multiple times a day to, you 

947
00:47:48,700 --> 00:47:51,100
know, once a day then to, once a
week and, you know, they just, 

948
00:47:51,100 --> 00:47:53,900
it's very, very slowly got 
better over time. 

949
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,900
Yeah. 
This week's episode is sponsored

950
00:47:56,900 --> 00:47:59,800
by teen counseling. 
Counseling is an online Therapy 

951
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,500
Program with over 14,000 
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952
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Network offering support on 
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953
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,400
relationships trauma. 
And so Much more via talk text 

954
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,700
and video counseling. 
So depending on what level of 

955
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:14,700
support you're looking for, they
can help you out. 

956
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If you haven't heard of teen 
counseling before, they are 

957
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better, helps Branch 
specifically for teenagers. 

958
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,600
So what you do if you haven't 
ever used better help or teen 

959
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:26,800
counseling before is, you go to 
teen counseling.com, says, she 

960
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,300
persisted. 
You filled a quick survey about 

961
00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:32,200
what you're hoping to work on 
whether that is relationships, 

962
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,900
depression, stress burnout. 
They will match you with a 

963
00:48:34,900 --> 00:48:37,200
therapist that specializes in 
that area. 

964
00:48:37,700 --> 00:48:40,600
If you start therapy and you 
don't like your therapist, they 

965
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,500
make it super easy to switch and
find a therapist that meets your

966
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:46,600
needs and then after you fill 
out the survey if you are under 

967
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,700
18 you put in a parent or 
Guardians email so that they can

968
00:48:49,700 --> 00:48:52,400
give consent for treatment and 
provide payment and I sent the 

969
00:48:52,408 --> 00:48:55,400
email to myself, all that it 
says is Sadie or whatever your 

970
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,700
name is. 
Is hoping to work with a 

971
00:48:57,700 --> 00:48:59,400
therapist from Teen counseling 
please. 

972
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,100
Learn more here, give consent. 
None of your information in the 

973
00:49:02,107 --> 00:49:05,700
survey is disclosed your privacy
is completely protected because 

974
00:49:05,700 --> 00:49:08,400
HIPAA is enacted. 
So Super vague. 

975
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,500
You're then able to work with a 
therapist on addressing what you

976
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:13,500
are hoping to. 
And that's it. 

977
00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:18,100
You are able to again text talk 
and video all from your home. 

978
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:20,700
It's a great solution. 
If you're looking to try therapy

979
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:23,900
but you don't want to have to go
and do a therapist office and 

980
00:49:23,900 --> 00:49:26,600
deal with first and take 
sessions and all of that 

981
00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:30,000
overwhelmingness and waiting 
list that happen when you try to

982
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,500
find a therapist near you. 
So it's a great solution and I'm

983
00:49:33,500 --> 00:49:36,100
a huge proponent of therapy was 
what changed my life. 

984
00:49:36,100 --> 00:49:38,900
So highly recommend trying, 
Therapy out if you haven't 

985
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:40,900
before. 
So, to check out teen 

986
00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:43,300
counseling, you can go to teen 
counseling.com. 

987
00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:45,100
You persist it. 
Again, that is teen 

988
00:49:45,100 --> 00:49:48,000
counseling.com. 
She persisted to find a 

989
00:49:48,008 --> 00:49:51,000
therapist today. 
I remember a lot of the same 

990
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:55,500
experiences and in the same 
process of working out of, or 

991
00:49:55,500 --> 00:49:59,000
working to get out of that pit 
of despair and suicidality. 

992
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:04,000
And it's something that's very 
difficult to do because you've 

993
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:09,300
almost labeled that as your 
go-to kill or alternative. 

994
00:50:09,300 --> 00:50:11,800
Like I remember being in the 
headspace where it was like, 

995
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,600
everything sucks. 
But there's always this option. 

996
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,600
This is always either Behavior. 
I could engage in, or a mental 

997
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:23,300
spot that I can sit in and get 
some kind of relief emotionally.

998
00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:29,000
And so, it was my go-to way to 
relieve the distress that I was 

999
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,800
experiencing. 
Whether that was depression 

1000
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,600
anxiety, these other large 
emotions, and I had to get to a 

1001
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:38,500
point after slowly starting to 
like decrease the Intensity and 

1002
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:41,200
frequency of those Suicidal 
Thoughts of being like, okay. 

1003
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,900
But this is no longer an option 
like yes for a while I survived 

1004
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:47,700
by having this as the plan B. 
This was on the black back 

1005
00:50:47,700 --> 00:50:49,200
burner. 
This is the only way I was 

1006
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,000
making it through these intense 
feelings. 

1007
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,800
But now I'm at a point where 
that can't be an option because 

1008
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,500
I have to get to the point where
I my life worth living was not 

1009
00:50:59,500 --> 00:51:02,600
having suicide be on the back 
burner that's not wasn't the end

1010
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,700
goal, that's not where I wanted 
to be and so at some point I 

1011
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:07,500
just had to kind of make that 
decision. 

1012
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,100
And allow myself to explore 
other routes of coping, whether 

1013
00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:15,100
it was a distraction or asking 
for help or venting or talking 

1014
00:51:15,100 --> 00:51:18,100
through things and taking away 
that safety blanket that for so 

1015
00:51:18,100 --> 00:51:22,100
long had allowed me to to work 
through the distress that had 

1016
00:51:22,100 --> 00:51:24,000
Arisen. 
Mmm Sadie. 

1017
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,100
That's such a good way of 
describing it that that so true 

1018
00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:30,900
that safety blanket. 
Because it's like, yeah, it's 

1019
00:51:30,900 --> 00:51:33,600
like, it's a learned habit. 
And it's like a safe space, not 

1020
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:37,100
a safe space but it's a 
comforting space for your mind 

1021
00:51:37,100 --> 00:51:40,400
to go to When things are going 
bad and you're just like, well, 

1022
00:51:40,700 --> 00:51:45,200
you know, I could always not be 
here and it does it takes a 

1023
00:51:45,207 --> 00:51:47,300
while and it, you know, the 
interesting thing is like 

1024
00:51:47,300 --> 00:51:51,300
there's not a clear Line in the 
Sand where it's like suddenly 

1025
00:51:51,300 --> 00:51:53,700
you don't feel like that anymore
and I think when you're in that 

1026
00:51:53,700 --> 00:51:56,000
you want that because you're 
just like these thoughts are so 

1027
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:58,400
bad. 
I either don't want to you know,

1028
00:51:58,400 --> 00:51:59,600
I just don't want to be here 
anymore. 

1029
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,700
So I'm not thinking them or just
want to be out of this 

1030
00:52:01,700 --> 00:52:04,300
completely because this is just 
so hard. 

1031
00:52:04,300 --> 00:52:07,500
It's those hats are so 
distracting. 

1032
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:09,200
Because you have them, you're 
like, okay. 

1033
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,000
Well, you know, at least I could
do this and then you're like, 

1034
00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:14,800
but then I'm having these 
thoughts again and what is that 

1035
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,900
telling me about it? 
And it really is, it's a slow 

1036
00:52:17,900 --> 00:52:20,800
process and it it doesn't happen
overnight, but you are right 

1037
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,900
that eventually, you realize, 
oh, I haven't had those thoughts

1038
00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:26,900
in a while and then sometimes 
they do come back. 

1039
00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:29,300
I think, once you my therapist, 
put it as, like, looking over 

1040
00:52:29,300 --> 00:52:31,800
the edge and deciding that 
actually, you don't want to go 

1041
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,000
there, but it's okay. 
Like sometimes we do have to 

1042
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,700
look over the edge and even 
today, you know, it's not that I

1043
00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:38,400
never have. 
Thoughts? 

1044
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:40,800
But I have those thoughts and I 
say, huh? 

1045
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,100
Like that's interesting because 
that no longer feels as 

1046
00:52:44,100 --> 00:52:46,300
appealing. 
I know that that's there because

1047
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:49,000
I've gone there and, you know, 
I've made my made myself think 

1048
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,600
about that as an option, which I
hadn't done for the first 32 

1049
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:56,700
years of my life. 
But you're slowly slowly slowly,

1050
00:52:56,700 --> 00:53:00,400
you do make your life better to 
the point where that doesn't 

1051
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,300
feel like the automatic 
comforting. 

1052
00:53:03,300 --> 00:53:06,800
Place your dough and you're like
no I do want to be here. 

1053
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,700
It's like your life. 
If is no longer a place that you

1054
00:53:09,700 --> 00:53:12,000
want to leave, it's at the place
where you want to stay. 

1055
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,400
And so it's like first 
navigating those thoughts 

1056
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,000
because the thoughts are making 
your life worse and then it's 

1057
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:22,100
creating a life that discourages
the thoughts because you really 

1058
00:53:22,100 --> 00:53:24,800
do enjoy it. 
And it allows you to feel better

1059
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,700
and creating that life may not 
be going back to the life that 

1060
00:53:29,700 --> 00:53:32,600
you have previously. 
Yeah, so I think that's another 

1061
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,000
thing. 
We were sort of like, well I 

1062
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,400
just want to get back to like 
before I had these thoughts will

1063
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,200
most likely your life is going 
to Look pretty different than it

1064
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,100
was before for a good reason 
because whatever was happening 

1065
00:53:43,100 --> 00:53:45,800
there wasn't working and it just
led to the despair. 

1066
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:49,900
Yeah, so it does require 
re-crafting your life and for 

1067
00:53:49,900 --> 00:53:52,500
some of that it's acceptance. 
So I had to go through a journey

1068
00:53:52,500 --> 00:53:55,400
of just accepting some of the 
pain or how long it was going to

1069
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,900
take in physical therapy to work
through the pain even though 

1070
00:53:57,900 --> 00:54:00,900
that. 
But but I did get there and so 

1071
00:54:00,900 --> 00:54:04,300
rebuilding an acceptance means 
that that that life after that 

1072
00:54:04,300 --> 00:54:09,400
is is going to look different. 
So when someone comes to you, 

1073
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,300
with these really big 
overwhelming things, whether 

1074
00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:14,500
it's struggling with 
suicidality, whether it's 

1075
00:54:14,500 --> 00:54:17,700
struggling with despair burnout 
comparison. 

1076
00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:21,500
How do you guys recommend that 
people respond? 

1077
00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:24,100
Is it validating? 
Is it just creating space? 

1078
00:54:24,100 --> 00:54:26,800
I think a lot of us just want to
problem solve and throw advice 

1079
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,500
at it. 
What is your guys's advice 

1080
00:54:28,500 --> 00:54:30,900
there? 
How through the research that 

1081
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:33,500
you did for your book? 
How would you recommend that 

1082
00:54:33,500 --> 00:54:36,600
people support others who are 
navigating these really tough 

1083
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:41,000
emotions? 
Yeah, I think I want to call out

1084
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,800
something when it comes to 
despair. 

1085
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:44,900
That I actually learned from 
Molly of all we were writing 

1086
00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:47,800
this book together which was she
shared a story where someone 

1087
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:49,600
said their therapist and Molly 
correct me. 

1088
00:54:49,607 --> 00:54:51,800
If I'm getting this wrong just 
said to them. 

1089
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,300
Like if you were gone I would 
miss you and I think that's just

1090
00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:58,500
like such a knife to your point.
I think we often try to jump to 

1091
00:54:58,500 --> 00:55:02,000
problem solving or there's often
this tendency to be like I'm 

1092
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,200
going to fix this, you know, 
like your life, isn't that bad? 

1093
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:06,700
Like look at this. 
Like look at the bright side. 

1094
00:55:06,700 --> 00:55:10,400
Your you have all. 
These Privileges and what we 

1095
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,000
don't realize that that does is 
like really just minimizes 

1096
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,200
someone's emotions. 
And so I think the biggest thing

1097
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:20,800
is just like creating space for 
them and saying like I hear you 

1098
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,000
I acknowledge you like I love 
you, I'm here for you. 

1099
00:55:24,700 --> 00:55:27,400
If you did something really 
drastic I would miss you. 

1100
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,000
I think just like that has stuck
with me for a long time and then

1101
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:34,500
this. 
So when I was, when my 

1102
00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:40,000
father-in-law was dying, I also 
found that a lot of people that 

1103
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,500
I knew loved me and cared about 
me, didn't know how to show up 

1104
00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:48,300
for me and I just didn't have, 
like, I had no energy to help 

1105
00:55:48,300 --> 00:55:51,100
them show up for me, and so they
would kind of like, send me a 

1106
00:55:51,107 --> 00:55:54,700
text and be like, let me know if
you need anything and I just 

1107
00:55:54,700 --> 00:55:59,100
like I do I do not have the time
to figure out like what I need 

1108
00:55:59,100 --> 00:56:02,100
from you right now and then one 
of my friends who had gone 

1109
00:56:02,100 --> 00:56:05,200
through something really similar
sent me this text, it was like, 

1110
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,700
Hey I'm thinking of you here are
Oh three things. 

1111
00:56:08,700 --> 00:56:12,300
You just text me 1 2 or 3 and I 
will do them for you one. 

1112
00:56:12,500 --> 00:56:15,100
I will get you food at your 
apartment too. 

1113
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,300
You can call me and I'll pick up
the phone right away and I will 

1114
00:56:18,300 --> 00:56:22,300
just listen and three. 
I will like send you something 

1115
00:56:22,300 --> 00:56:25,500
to distract you like a funny 
joke and like whenever you need 

1116
00:56:25,500 --> 00:56:29,500
me to, as soon as I can, I will 
try to respond with these things

1117
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,300
and I thought that like she just
got it. 

1118
00:56:32,300 --> 00:56:35,300
Like she just totally understood
that. 

1119
00:56:36,100 --> 00:56:39,100
I didn't have the capacity to 
come up with those things, but 

1120
00:56:39,107 --> 00:56:41,800
it was just like I don't even 
think I ended up texting her 

1121
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,400
that much, but it just like 
knowing sometimes at night, when

1122
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:50,500
I couldn't sleep that like I had
someone to text 22 that she 

1123
00:56:50,500 --> 00:56:53,600
would like immediately respond 
made me feel so much better and 

1124
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:58,100
I think it was just the, like, 
really trying to see it from my 

1125
00:56:58,100 --> 00:57:01,000
perspective and not, it wasn't 
the fixing. 

1126
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,700
It was just like, I'm just going
to be here for you. 

1127
00:57:03,900 --> 00:57:05,500
Here are three ways for me to do
that. 

1128
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:09,100
That you don't have to call, you
don't have to like creatively 

1129
00:57:09,100 --> 00:57:11,600
come up with a full way for me 
to show up for you. 

1130
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:13,700
I found was like, so, so 
helpful. 

1131
00:57:13,700 --> 00:57:16,400
And then, yeah, I'll hand it to 
Molly because I think she also 

1132
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:21,300
has great advice here. 
I think checking in constantly. 

1133
00:57:21,300 --> 00:57:23,800
So I had a friend who, when I 
opened up to her, you know, I 

1134
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:27,400
said, I'm feeling like, I don't 
want to live anymore and she 

1135
00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,800
then, you know, she was still on
the phone with me, but then she 

1136
00:57:29,808 --> 00:57:31,900
texted me every day should just 
end. 

1137
00:57:31,900 --> 00:57:34,300
It wasn't didn't require 
response, but it's just like, 

1138
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,200
you know, checking in, she would
tell me something about what was

1139
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,500
going on with her. 
Or, you know, it was really 

1140
00:57:40,500 --> 00:57:44,300
thoughtful and its people who 
don't always expect who call and

1141
00:57:44,300 --> 00:57:47,200
check in, and it doesn't need to
be a big thing. 

1142
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,100
But it really His help in these 
moments. 

1143
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,900
Yeah, I really like what both 
you guys highlighted where it's 

1144
00:57:53,900 --> 00:57:56,800
like, not necessarily expecting 
the response or the 

1145
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,000
reciprocation from the person. 
I remember my grandmother had 

1146
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:05,600
pancreatic cancer and she got 
into remission and really did. 

1147
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,600
The did the full circle thing 
recovered? 

1148
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,500
But when she was initially going
through chemo and have the 

1149
00:58:10,500 --> 00:58:14,100
Whipple all of her neighbors and
friends, and family members were

1150
00:58:14,100 --> 00:58:17,600
like dropping off meals and 
writing letters and texting and 

1151
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,300
calling. 
And I remember her saying years 

1152
00:58:20,300 --> 00:58:24,300
after the fact that that was so 
exhausting and almost the 

1153
00:58:24,300 --> 00:58:27,100
opposite of what was helpful 
because they would drop off a 

1154
00:58:27,100 --> 00:58:30,100
meal and the person was like, oh
this will be so helpful. 

1155
00:58:30,500 --> 00:58:33,800
I am giving her one last thing 
to do, but the way she saw that 

1156
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,800
was like, no, but I have to 
clean the Tupperware and return 

1157
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:40,200
it to this person and say, thank
you, or they would call and she 

1158
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,100
big. 
Now, I have 45 people to call 

1159
00:58:42,100 --> 00:58:44,100
back or they would write a 
letter and she's like, now, I 

1160
00:58:44,107 --> 00:58:47,600
have to go to the Post Office 
and add a stamp and mail this to

1161
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,200
the person and it's like Maybe 
going into it you're like no, I 

1162
00:58:50,207 --> 00:58:53,400
don't expect a response but when
you don't say that and make it 

1163
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,600
very clear like especially when 
that person is so prone to 

1164
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,100
feeling overwhelmed. 
And again in despair it can seem

1165
00:59:00,100 --> 00:59:02,700
really overwhelming to them. 
Same thing with like when people

1166
00:59:02,700 --> 00:59:06,100
a drop by and she'd be like I 
have to get off of the couch, I 

1167
00:59:06,100 --> 00:59:09,400
have to go and offer them a 
Pepperidge and make them feel at

1168
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:11,300
home. 
And all I want to do is just sit

1169
00:59:11,300 --> 00:59:16,300
here and recover and relax. 
And so I think making it 

1170
00:59:16,500 --> 00:59:19,700
abundantly clear that you're 
just There and that they don't 

1171
00:59:19,700 --> 00:59:23,100
need to do anything in return or
as a response. 

1172
00:59:23,100 --> 00:59:25,100
And I really do love what you 
said. 

1173
00:59:25,100 --> 00:59:27,600
Elizabeth that Molly said when 
she was struggling which is to 

1174
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,600
say I would miss you that was 
all I wanted to hear from 

1175
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,000
everyone. 
It was like I remember wishing 

1176
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,300
someone would say that when I 
was going through that low point

1177
00:59:36,300 --> 00:59:39,500
in having those thoughts and so 
I think any of those things that

1178
00:59:39,500 --> 00:59:43,900
you guys mentioned would be 
hugely appreciated and just very

1179
00:59:43,900 --> 00:59:46,900
beneficial to the relationship. 
If someone does come to you with

1180
00:59:46,900 --> 00:59:51,400
one of these big overwhelming 
things A point. 

1181
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,300
Well, I know this conversation 
is going to help so many people 

1182
00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:57,300
and I these are things that all 
of us. 

1183
00:59:57,300 --> 00:59:59,100
I feel like navigate at some 
point. 

1184
00:59:59,100 --> 01:00:02,400
We all experienced these 
spectrum of emotions and I feel 

1185
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:05,800
like this gives a lot of ways to
cope through these things. 

1186
01:00:06,100 --> 01:00:10,600
And your book just has so many 
helpful resources to continue 

1187
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:12,900
this conversation and it breaks 
it down so well. 

1188
01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:15,700
Like even the charts and the 
graphs in the picture is just 

1189
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:21,200
amazingly verbalized and just 
explain these Motions and an 

1190
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:24,000
amazing way. 
So I highly recommend everyone 

1191
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:27,200
check that out to wrap things 
up, once again, working people 

1192
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:29,500
get the book and follow along 
with you too. 

1193
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,300
Well, again, thank you for 
having us and people can find 

1194
01:00:33,300 --> 01:00:35,700
the book. 
It's called Big feelings, how to

1195
01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:37,200
be okay, when things are not 
okay. 

1196
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,400
And you can find it on Amazon 
book, shop out org, your local 

1197
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,200
bookstore. 
We are Liz and Molly with 

1198
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,500
mmol/l. 
Ie with me, if you find us on 

1199
01:00:45,500 --> 01:00:48,500
Instagram and our website is Liz
and Molly.com. 

1200
01:00:48,500 --> 01:00:51,200
And again, we really love your 
podcast. 

1201
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,100
We really like what you're doing
is but especially for this 

1202
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:57,600
audience and thank you for 
sharing your story with world. 

1203
01:00:58,300 --> 01:01:00,300
Yeah. 
Thank you both and everything 

1204
01:01:00,300 --> 01:01:01,900
will be LinkedIn Today, Show 
notes. 

1205
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,600
So you guys can get their new 
book and their first book and 

1206
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:08,300
continue to follow along and 
Clem. 

1207
01:01:08,300 --> 01:01:13,000
Lot, of course, thank you guys. 
This week's DVT scale is the 

1208
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,700
Copa head scale. 
The Copa had scale is part of 

1209
01:01:15,700 --> 01:01:19,200
the emotion regulation module 
and the goal of this scale is to

1210
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:24,400
reduce stress by preparing, in 
advance, for a emotionally 

1211
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,000
overwhelming stressful, new 
situation. 

1212
01:01:27,100 --> 01:01:30,400
So there are five steps to this.
The first is that you described 

1213
01:01:30,500 --> 01:01:33,100
the situation that is likely to 
prompt uncomfortable emotions. 

1214
01:01:33,100 --> 01:01:35,800
So maybe it is the first day of 
school. 

1215
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,200
So, you are anxious about 
meeting new people or making new

1216
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:42,700
friends or introducing yourself.
You are going to check the facts

1217
01:01:42,700 --> 01:01:44,600
about what is accurate, what is 
likely to happen? 

1218
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:47,500
And be very specific and 
describing the situation. 

1219
01:01:47,500 --> 01:01:52,400
Make sure you know the who, 
what, when, where why and put 

1220
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,200
names the emotions and actions 
that are likely to interfere 

1221
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,200
with you using skills. 
Are you anxious? 

1222
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,500
Are you overwhelmed? 
Are you feeling alone? 

1223
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:03,200
Own and isolated. 
What is going to get in the way 

1224
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,500
of you being effective? 
Second, you are going to decide 

1225
01:02:06,500 --> 01:02:08,600
what coping or problem-solving 
skills. 

1226
01:02:08,900 --> 01:02:11,200
You were going to use if those 
emotions arise. 

1227
01:02:11,500 --> 01:02:13,700
So be specific and write down in
detail. 

1228
01:02:13,700 --> 01:02:16,500
How you're going to cope with 
the situation, your emotions and

1229
01:02:16,500 --> 01:02:19,700
then your action urges. 
So if you feel anxious or you're

1230
01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:22,100
going to do deep breathing, are 
you going to go to the bathroom 

1231
01:02:22,100 --> 01:02:25,100
and drink some water? 
You can use an affirmation. 

1232
01:02:25,100 --> 01:02:27,100
Are you going to count things 
around the room? 

1233
01:02:27,100 --> 01:02:29,800
What skills you going to use to 
Target each emotion? 

1234
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:31,600
Third. 
You are going to imagine the 

1235
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,200
situation that you've outlined 
in your mind is vividly as 

1236
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:35,800
possible. 
Imagine yourself in the 

1237
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:39,600
situation, imagine watching the 
situation and then the fourth 

1238
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:44,600
step is to in that imagined 
situation, rehearse coping 

1239
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,700
effectively. 
So imagine exactly what you 

1240
01:02:47,707 --> 01:02:51,000
would do actions thoughts what 
you would say, how you would say

1241
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:55,300
it how you would cope with a new
problem if that comes up and 

1242
01:02:55,300 --> 01:02:58,800
really make sure to use these 
coping skills and your imagined 

1243
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:01,300
worst case scenario. 
So First day of school. 

1244
01:03:01,300 --> 01:03:03,700
And you're like, I'm worried, 
I'm gonna fall down the stairs 

1245
01:03:03,700 --> 01:03:04,800
in front of everyone. 
Okay. 

1246
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,200
What would you do? 
You would get up. 

1247
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,600
Would you leave the situation? 
Would you laugh it off? 

1248
01:03:08,900 --> 01:03:11,300
Exactly what you would do to 
handle that? 

1249
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:15,200
And the last thing is to do a 
little bit of relaxation and 

1250
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:18,100
calm down after going through 
the anxiety of rehearsing the 

1251
01:03:18,100 --> 01:03:20,000
situation to get back to your 
Baseline. 

1252
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,500
So self-care distraction 
accumulating positives. 

1253
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:26,500
Just bring yourself back to a 
good headspace. 

1254
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:29,900
So that is the Copa had scale as
mentioned in this week's episode

1255
01:03:30,100 --> 01:03:32,400
and then a little bit more 
in-depth here at the end. 

1256
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:35,000
If you use the code but head to 
go out, make sure to send me a 

1257
01:03:35,008 --> 01:03:38,400
DM telling me how you used it. 
I'd love to hear about you guys 

1258
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,500
using your DBT scales. 
So with that. 

1259
01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:43,200
Thank you for listening. 
Thank you so much for listening 

1260
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:45,100
to this week's episode of she 
persisted. 

1261
01:03:45,100 --> 01:03:47,500
If you enjoyed make sure to 
share with a friend or family 

1262
01:03:47,500 --> 01:03:49,700
member. 
It really helps out the podcast 

1263
01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,800
and if you haven't already leave
a review on Apple podcasts or 

1264
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,000
Spotify, you can also make sure 
to follow along at at she 

1265
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,900
persisted podcast on both 
Instagram and Tick-Tock and 

1266
01:03:58,900 --> 01:04:02,100
check out all the bonus. 
His content and information on 

1267
01:04:02,100 --> 01:04:05,700
my website, she persisted 
podcast.com, thanks for 

1268
01:04:05,700 --> 01:04:08,300
supporting, keep persisting and 
I'll see you next week. 

1269
01:04:00,500 --> 01:04:03,700
His content and information on 
my website, she persisted 

1270
01:04:03,700 --> 01:04:07,200
podcast.com, thanks for 
supporting, keep persisting and 

1271
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:08,300
I'll see you next week.