1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,680 Welcome to Sheep Persisted, the Gen. 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:04,360 Z mental health podcast. I'm your host, Sadie Sutton. 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,200 Let's get into it. I think self compassion is one 4 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:08,960 of the most important ingredients in emotional 5 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,440 fitness. Anything that makes a person who 6 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,680 they are, even things that make people annoying and frustrating 7 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:18,760 and infuriating, Those things served them well at some point 8 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,640 or they wouldn't be that way. And as we accept that about 9 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,400 ourselves and other people, we free up space to change. 10 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,880 Hello, hello and welcome back to another episode of She 11 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,280 Persisted. We have a repeat guest today and 12 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,560 I'm absolutely so excited to have her back. 13 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,960 Doctor Emily Annal is on the show. 14 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,440 She is a clinical psychologist, emotional fitness expert, 15 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:43,040 speaker, author, and the Co founder of COA Your Gym for 16 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,360 Mental Health. For the past two decades, she 17 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,320 has been working clinically with executives, leaders, and teams 18 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,560 and has conducted extensive research with prominent 19 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,120 psychologists and entrepreneurs about how leaders can improve 20 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,240 their emotional fitness. She has a book that has just 21 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,600 come out. It is called Flex your Feelings. 22 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,680 A link is in the show notes. And in preparation for this book 23 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,840 launch, we had a conversation that really went all over. 24 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,480 We talked about emotional fitness, imposter syndrome, 25 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,440 emotional intelligence, how we can train our mental health, and 26 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,600 we debunked some pop psychology myths. 27 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,040 This is just such an incredible conversation. 28 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,280 Emily is absolutely the best and you guys are going to adore this 29 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,560 conversation and leave with so much wisdom to improve your your 30 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,120 mental fitness. And if you enjoy the episode, 31 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,040 share on social media, send to a friend or family member, leave a 32 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,280 review, subscribe all the things I hope you enjoy. 33 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,640 So let's dive in. Well, thank you so much for 34 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,400 joining the MC persisted. I'm so excited for this part too 35 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,520 and have you here in person to this conversation. 36 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,680 It's so nice to be back and so cool to see that the next 37 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,320 generation is taking up mental health in a completely different 38 00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:49,720 way. Yeah, I think there really is 39 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,320 this emphasis on mental health. There's definitely the belief 40 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,840 that it's malleable. There's that growth mindset that 41 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,280 was like drilled into all of Gen. 42 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,960 Z in middle school and elementary school. 43 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:03,640 We had the SEL classes. So I think it's a really good 44 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:07,280 time to kind of install this information, give people the 45 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,199 tools that they can use and hopefully they see the dividends 46 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:14,160 as they transfer out of high school, college into life and 47 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,840 you're kind of creating these habits that really last a 48 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,480 lifetime for sure. OK, amazing. 49 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,640 Well, I wanted to start with a philosophy that you have, which 50 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:26,320 is that who you are anywhere is who you are everywhere. 51 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,120 And so I wanted to hear how you discovered this and also its 52 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,520 implications for listeners because I really love this. 53 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,680 I think it ties a lot into emotional fitness. 54 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,560 I think that we can think of like physical health as being 55 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,320 fairly silent to some areas. We sometimes think that about 56 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,080 mental health, like it only applies when we're having a 57 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,280 breakdown or we're stressed or overwhelmed. 58 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:46,200 I'm so I'm really excited to your book there. 59 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:49,160 So I think I came to understand this idea of who you are 60 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:50,600 anywhere is who you are everywhere. 61 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,960 As I learned more about the patterns that we repeat 62 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,240 throughout our life, and one of the ways this became so clear is 63 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,680 the number of times that my patients would be talking to me 64 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,000 about the dynamics that they have with their colleagues or 65 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,840 with their boss at work. And it would be so clearly tied 66 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,240 to the dynamics they had with their siblings and with their 67 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,160 parents growing up. The fact is, we bring our whole 68 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,080 selves with us everywhere we go. We are emotional creatures. 69 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,960 We might want to think, oh, work isn't really the place for 70 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,760 feelings, but we're bringing our emotions with us to work whether 71 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,960 we like it or not. So the more we understand 72 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,080 ourselves anywhere in our life, the more we'll understand 73 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:34,120 ourselves everywhere in life. And as you heal yourself in any 74 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,560 part of who you are, you will see that ripple through your 75 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,080 entire life. Yeah, before we even get into 76 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,040 emotional fitness and emotional intelligence and all of these 77 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:47,720 different facets of this, I want to ask you about Gen. 78 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,760 Z in particular because I I'm probably on a very specific side 79 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,520 of TikTok because I'm very ears open or out. 80 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:55,640 Like what are people saying about Gen. 81 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:56,760 Z? Like what are what are the 82 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,600 topics there? But I've heard a lot of people 83 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:00,920 be like, they don't want to hire Gen. 84 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,680 Z Gen. Z is more gig economy. 85 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,600 It's less like really putting in the hours, doing these full time 86 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,200 roles. There's definitely a different 87 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,640 attitude around hiring Gen. Z versus millennials or whatever 88 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,200 else. And so I'm curious what your 89 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,280 thoughts are there because I think a lot of this is 90 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,959 synonymous to how people respond to their boss, whether it's 91 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:20,519 setting boundaries or making requests or dealing with 92 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:23,480 burnout. Like there's really a lot of 93 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,520 messaging that like Gen. Z is lazy, they don't want to do 94 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,400 the work, they're emotionally mature, like they're not 95 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,080 respecting their boss. And so I'm curious what your 96 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,400 thoughts are there, if you think that's accurate, if you think 97 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,480 it's just like a mismatch of communication styles, do we lack 98 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:38,440 emotional fitness? Like what are your thoughts 99 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,880 there? So I think Gen. 100 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,800 Z was dealt a really tough hand. Yeah, You know, we're being 101 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,840 handed all these insane circumstances. 102 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,320 Climate change threatens existence, period. 103 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,960 It's one of the first generations where people are 104 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,960 making less money than their parents did. 105 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,080 The ideas of being able to buy a house to do all the things that 106 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,480 our parents were taught are really important or almost 107 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,880 impossible. And so my feeling is that Gen. 108 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:10,360 Z is a generation that's saying, OK, well, if sitting down and 109 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,640 working one job for my whole life isn't going to get me 110 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,600 everything that I've been told is important, then I better care 111 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:16,880 about what I'm doing. Yeah. 112 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:18,720 I better feel passionate about my work. 113 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,560 I better be doing something that is changing the world in some 114 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,240 way. And I think they get a lot of 115 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,560 shit for that. When really, it makes perfect 116 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,680 sense to me. Why would you stay at one job 117 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,120 for your whole life when you're not even being paid enough to do 118 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,120 the things that you feel like you're supposed to be doing? 119 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,600 So to me, I don't think Gen. Z is lazy. 120 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,000 I think they're a meaning making generation. 121 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,240 I think they want to do things that actually matter. 122 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,000 And I think that's amazing. And it just means that it gets 123 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:47,680 complicated when Gen. Z and Millennials and Boomers 124 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,160 and everyone are in a workplace together, and they all have such 125 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,760 different values and such different compass being the way. 126 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,320 Yeah. So to me the question is more 127 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,520 how can we find common ground and make sure that everyone 128 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,600 feels seen and understood and that what them doing matters? 129 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,920 Yeah, I also do think there's the, like, vulnerability element 130 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,880 or Gen. Z doesn't have many qualms about 131 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,920 voicing where they're at or being really transparent with 132 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,720 like Taylor Swift didn't release the album yesterday. 133 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:15,840 I'm honestly in a really bad mood because of that. 134 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:18,240 And I'm sure rumors are like, I'm sorry, like this is work 135 00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:19,880 like that can't be impacting your mood. 136 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,480 Like we put on a front here. And that's not how this works. 137 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,640 First, Gen. Z is very vocal about these 138 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:27,080 things. It's very normalized. 139 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,080 And so I'm sure that also has repercussions when it comes to 140 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,040 perceptions of Gen. Z and how they show up for work 141 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,160 and not just putting on that masking thing like everything is 142 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,000 perfect all at the time and it no way impacts our ability to 143 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,400 provide and show up in a career context. 144 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,920 I'm sure like anything, there's balance to be found. 145 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,360 I know. I think that there was the 146 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,520 pendulum that swung one way where there was no room for any 147 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:52,880 emotions and everyone had to suck it up and just do what they 148 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,560 were supposed to do. And that resulted in a lot of 149 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:57,920 trauma and a lot of problems. And then it's possible things 150 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,000 have swung the other way where there isn't a lot of serve 151 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,840 skills to figure out how to compartmentalize and to make 152 00:07:04,840 --> 00:07:07,360 sure that you are feeling your emotions but also doing the 153 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,680 things that you have to do. And at some point, balance will 154 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,040 be found. But I'm a big fan of people 155 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,160 being able to say yeah and what they need. 100% you've also 156 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,720 debunked this idea that if you find a job you love, you won't 157 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,080 work a day in your life. But I think Gen. 158 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,480 Z aspires that right? We want our passions to be 159 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,200 aligned with our careers. We have like that sense of 160 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,960 purpose. We want to make a difference, 161 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,880 but I also think this is an interesting philosophy and 162 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,920 you've talked about how this isn't necessarily the case, even 163 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,160 if you're doing something that's really aligned with your passion 164 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,240 and it feels like you're fulfilling that sense of 165 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:40,600 purpose. Can you speak to that a little 166 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,120 bit? I want to caution people to be 167 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,320 very wary of anything that has all or nothing thinking built 168 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:49,680 into it. This idea of, oh, just find the 169 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,080 right job and it'll never feel like work, it'll never be hard. 170 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:55,800 That's bullshit. That's just not how life works. 171 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,680 The truth is, anything that you want, anything you want to 172 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,920 achieve, even something you're so excited and passionate about 173 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,720 is going to live on the other side of some struggle, on the 174 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,920 other side of some discomfort. So if you're doing a job you 175 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,960 really like, then hopefully most of the time it's great and 176 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,000 you're enjoying yourself. But some of the time they're 177 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,000 going to be tasks you don't really feel like doing. 178 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:17,840 There's going to be something that's harder than you thought 179 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:19,840 it was going to be. You're going to fail or you're 180 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,960 not going to progress the way that you thought that you would. 181 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:25,480 And my worry with this idea of find the right job you'll never 182 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,560 work a day in your life is that people, people then think the 183 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,600 second they come across any obstacles or struggle, but that 184 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,120 means they're on the wrong path. The truth is that life includes 185 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,919 suffering, it always will. And I think by accepting this, 186 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,960 we are more likely to face it with some conviction in our 187 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,640 ability to move through it, instead of this intense desire 188 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,880 to take a left turn or avoid it. Altogether, yeah, 100%. 189 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,600 I want to talk about these different facets of emotional 190 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,320 fitness and you break this down a lot in your book. 191 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,720 And so people want like exactly how they can improve their 192 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,320 emotional fitness specific practices they can do. 193 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:05,000 But to start, what are the signs that people lack emotional 194 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,240 fitness? I think we more commonly not 195 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,920 like that person maybe isn't the most stable or like that's a 196 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,760 very sensitive person or they're not being super effective. 197 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,040 But I don't think we have the strong articulation of like 198 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,680 there's room for growth there. We could potentially be more 199 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:23,640 effective and almost the preventative work that we're 200 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:24,880 doing. And so I'm curious how this 201 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,760 shows up and like day-to-day subjective of experiences, 202 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,040 career, relationships, all of that. 203 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,760 So let's first think about the difference between health and 204 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,640 fitness. So if you think about someone 205 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,160 who's physically healthy versus not, you might think they're 206 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,120 either sick or they're well. But to be physically fit is a 207 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,160 different thing. You can be not sick and still 208 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,000 not be fit. A person who's fit is someone 209 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,360 who eats healthy, sleeps enough exercises, they're actually 210 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,680 preventing a lot of the illness. They're less likely to get sick 211 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,040 because of the work that they're doing. 212 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,960 So similarly, emotional fitness isn't about a lack of emotional 213 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,640 disorders or problems. It's about having an ongoing 214 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,240 practice that bolsters you against the difficult things 215 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:12,360 that you're going to face in life. 216 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,520 So a person would probably know that they don't have great 217 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,080 emotional fitness if their relationships aren't as strong 218 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,800 as they want them to be. If they're noticing that the 219 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,480 feelings that they have don't feel like they match the 220 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,760 situations that they're in, they don't have all the coping 221 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,800 strategies they need. If they feel like they're 222 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,560 putting out one thing and people are perceiving them a totally 223 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:34,440 different way, that's probably a sign that they need to learn how 224 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,760 to empathize better or communicate differently, or that 225 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:38,400 their self-awareness could use some work. 226 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,280 So the idea in the book is, all right, what the hell does that 227 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,760 actually mean? How do I do an emotional push 228 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,240 up? How do I get stronger so that my 229 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,640 life in these areas improves? I think that's really 230 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:50,920 interesting. And I think you mentioned 231 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,480 something there that unless you've been through mental 232 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,600 health challenges and you get yourself back to like, OK, I'm 233 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,240 back to normal functioning. I'm almost back reset at zero. 234 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,760 And then you're like, OK, but how do I thrive? 235 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:03,760 Like, how do I flourish? How do I build this life that I 236 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,640 really enjoy? Not just like back zero, no 237 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,400 longer in distress, struggling actively trying to solve these 238 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,640 problems. And I think unless you've gotten 239 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,960 to that point where you're like, this isn't sustainable, this 240 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,920 doesn't work, I need help. We kind of just accept our 241 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,640 emotional vulnerability and our emotional health, our emotional 242 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,320 fitness as it is. We don't think of it as 243 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,480 malleable. We're not like, my emotions 244 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,080 don't match the situation or it could be more effective. 245 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,200 It's like, well, it's not horrible. 246 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,000 It doesn't need clinical support. 247 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,800 So this just must be how I function. 248 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,080 There is not that like subclinical almost like 249 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,800 awareness that we could potentially have effective 250 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,120 interventions that allow us to thrive and allow us to do these 251 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,080 things more effectively. And it's not just a given that 252 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,840 we have some amount of emotional health and it's not something 253 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,000 that can be impacted through things like emotional push ups 254 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,360 and going to the mental gym and all of these different 255 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,360 interventions. That's such a good point. 256 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,880 I do think we forget often as adults that if you practice 257 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,640 something, you'll get better at it, that you can flex your 258 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,120 emotional muscles and get stronger. 259 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,280 Every single person out there can level up when it comes to 260 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,200 their emotional fitness. Every person can improve the 261 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,760 relationship they have to themselves and to other people. 262 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,320 And I totally get it. If it's not broken, don't fix it 263 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,440 kind of thing. But just imagine what your life 264 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,680 would feel like if you cranked up the volume on how satisfy you 265 00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:31,560 feel and the relationships that you're in and in how authentic 266 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:35,000 it feels to be living your life. You know, we we forget how 267 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,520 important things are until we feel them. 268 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:40,560 In fact, often hear patients say, I didn't even realize till 269 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:42,520 I was depressed until I wasn't depressed. 270 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,600 So wherever your life is right now, I promise you that working 271 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,600 on your emotional fitness will level you up in ways that might 272 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,840 be hard to even imagine right now, but are so worth doing. 273 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:58,160 100% I definitely agree with that philosophy and that kind of 274 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:01,960 lived experience that you don't really realize how ineffective 275 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,080 it is until you've been in a different position. 276 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,200 I think the same thing is absolutely true for our physical 277 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:08,040 health. Like if we're not sleeping well, 278 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,720 but we have slept the same our entire lives, totally didn't 279 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,040 know, could be different. Or like you see athletes with 280 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,960 insane cardiovascular strength, that's fine for them, but like, 281 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:18,720 that's not something I'm capable of. 282 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,320 And we don't have that growth mindset that yes, our capacities 283 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,400 are different, but there's still room for improvement. 284 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,640 And that baseline benchmark isn't something that's set in 285 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,360 stone and unable to be changed for the better. 286 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,880 We don't know what we don't know, and that's the beauty of 287 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:38,240 this practice is you're going to realize that there are things 288 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,440 free to work on that you never could have even imagined before. 289 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,520 And there's something so profound about that. 290 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,640 It's so exciting for me to see someone say shit. 291 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,600 I didn't realize I needed to work on this. 292 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,840 And now that I am, everything in my life around me is improving. 293 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:54,520 What a cool thing that each of us can tap into. 294 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,240 In your book you talk about soft skills, which I hadn't heard the 295 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,840 term before. And so I'm curious what those 296 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,200 are, why we need them, how we can develop them and the 297 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,520 different areas that they benefit. 298 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,680 I'm we talked about how mental health impacts all these 299 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:11,480 different areas, but I imagine there's ones that are especially 300 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,920 related to our ability to develop our soft skills. 301 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,200 Yeah, so the term soft skills I think was born in the world of 302 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,520 tech to describe non-technical skills. 303 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,800 So hard skills are knowing how to code, that kind of thing. 304 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,200 And soft skills are more how to manage your emotions. 305 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,280 So I actually hate the term soft skills because they're not soft. 306 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,400 They're, they're very difficult and they're very important, but 307 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:36,360 they are profoundly shifting in the way you live your life as 308 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,840 you develop these skills. So really, I would maybe say 309 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,920 that the seven traits that I talked about in the book are the 310 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,080 seven quote, UN quote, soft skills that I think will change 311 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:50,040 your life. I based these for, for those who 312 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,240 aren't familiar with this emotional fitness stuff, it's 313 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,560 based on research I did about 10 years ago. 314 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,400 I interviewed 100 psychologists and 100 entrepreneurs and I 315 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,840 asked them the question, how would you know if you were 316 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,320 sitting across the table from an emotionally healthy person? 317 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:04,960 What does that kind of person do? 318 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,400 What do they not do? What does that feel like to be 319 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,520 with them? And out of this research came 320 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,400 these 7 traits of emotional fitness, the seven things that I 321 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,240 think emotionally healthy people are working on all the time. 322 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,480 And these are 7 things that at least I definitely didn't learn 323 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,720 in school, but I don't know anyone who couldn't use a little 324 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:28,200 bit more work in all of these, or at least a few of them. 325 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,240 So the idea is at the beginning of the book, you will kind of 326 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,160 rate yourself of where you feel like you fall in these 7 traits. 327 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,240 And then by at the end of the book, you'll rate yourself 328 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,200 again. And most of the time, those 329 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,520 ratings go up. Can you walk us through the 330 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,560 seven traits so people can be aware of like, oh, I definitely 331 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,120 don't have that one as established as it could be, or 332 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,320 like, oh, I'm totally nailing that area and feel pretty 333 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,040 confident about my ability to operate in that domain. 334 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:53,600 For sure. And then I'm going to ask you 335 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:54,960 what your biggest strength is in. 336 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,520 Your area of growth. I'm ready. 337 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:01,000 So the first one is mindfulness, which I define as the ability to 338 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,120 become more comfortable being uncomfortable. 339 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,880 So, you know, staying in the present moment is hard. 340 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,480 We tend to move away from it. We tend to avoid the things that 341 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,000 are uncomfortable. Mindful people can deal with 342 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,000 discomfort. Second one is curiosity, which 343 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,400 is asking questions of yourself and of other people and being 344 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,640 able to hear feedback when people come to you with it. 345 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,040 Being curious opens the door for the third trait, which is 346 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,960 self-awareness. So understanding your emotions, 347 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,440 your triggers, your biases, everything about you that 348 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,360 defines who you are after self-awareness is resilience, 349 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,640 which is the ability to bounce forward through setbacks and 350 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,040 failures. And notice I say bounce forward 351 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,760 and not bounce back because I don't think we ever go back to 352 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,160 being the person we were before we went through a hard thing. 353 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,400 And so instead of trying to get back to who you were, resilience 354 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,200 is about taking what you've been through and using it as a 355 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,800 springboard into a better version of yourself moving 356 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,080 forward. After resilience comes empathy. 357 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,800 So if self-awareness is understanding of your own 358 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,360 emotions, empathy is being able to understand and feel other 359 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:06,599 people's emotions after. Empathy is communication. 360 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:10,680 So being able to put words to your needs, your boundaries, all 361 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,200 of that, and also being able to listen well and take in what is 362 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,000 being said to you. And then finally is playfulness. 363 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,160 And that actually might be my favorite one. 364 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,359 I think we wildly undervalue how important play is. 365 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:28,160 And being playful is really about saying yes and meeting 366 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,760 people in their ideas, building on those ideas, not worrying 367 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,840 about the destination so much as the beauty and joy of the 368 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:36,960 journey. Yeah, OK. 369 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:39,800 I wrote down which ones. I was like, OK, I think I got 370 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:41,120 that. Definitely room for growth. 371 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,800 I think like self-awareness and resilience piece. 372 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,760 I think having been through a lot of mental health challenges, 373 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,120 it's been through all the therapy intensively, it's hard 374 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:54,200 to not know kind of where your blind spots are or what keeps 375 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,400 coming up and you're like, oh, that's still something I'm 376 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,320 working on. So I would say like that 377 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,200 awareness of where my strengths are, where I'm likely to get 378 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,560 triggered, what I can do preventatively to solve for 379 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:07,760 that. Then I think that goes hand in 380 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,240 hand with resilience, having to overtime establish these coping 381 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:13,480 skills that allow me to be effective in these emotional 382 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,560 situations. And then I would say like the 383 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,960 mindfulness and the playfulness are two things that I wouldn't 384 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,760 say that I don't do them, but they definitely are things I 385 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:24,160 have to be more intentional about. 386 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,640 I'm definitely someone who is avoidance prone. 387 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,600 I'm more of a distractor. And so when it comes to like 388 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,400 sitting with the emotions, sitting with the discomfort and 389 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,760 someone who's like, maybe later, I'll come to back to that at 390 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,120 another time. And the playfulness as well. 391 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:40,240 I think it's, it's more comfortable to have the control 392 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,600 and the certainty. There's the self-awareness. 393 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,840 And so I think that I tend to learn more towards like that 394 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,720 self-awareness, resilience, problem solving versus 395 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:49,080 playfulness. Let us happen and we'll be 396 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:50,360 mindful. We'll see how it goes. 397 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,520 Nice, I love it. So you know what a fun thing if 398 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,480 your homework is to play more. Yeah, exactly. 399 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,680 I'm curious if there are some of these from working with clients 400 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,040 from the interviews you conducted where you think that 401 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:07,240 most people are lacking or most people inherently easily pick up 402 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,840 like empathy or self-awareness. Like are there areas where 403 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,760 you're generally like the general population does not have 404 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,040 this one nailed or most people can function effectively for the 405 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,520 most part with this trait? I found that it really varies 406 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,600 what you're strong in, what you need to work on can look so 407 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,960 different from person to person. I will say, and there's plenty 408 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,920 of research to support that almost every person thinks 409 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,800 they're more self aware than they actually are because you 410 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,440 don't know what you don't know. You know, when I, when I do my 411 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,040 talks, I will do a poll where I ask everyone to say, do you 412 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,480 think you're generally more self aware, the same or less self 413 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,800 aware than the average person? And 95% of people say they're 414 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,640 more self aware 100%. It's like, well, you can't all 415 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,320 be more than average, right? And so there's something I think 416 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,440 really freeing about telling yourself, you know, it's OK that 417 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,400 I don't know everything yet. And in science, one of the 418 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,840 things you realize is the more you know, the more you realize 419 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,000 you don't know. So similar, you know, I've been 420 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,040 in therapy since I started grad school and. 421 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,480 I think of myself as a self aware individual and then I'll 422 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,760 leave a session and be like, oh shit, I just blew my own mind 423 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,840 with something I had no idea was completely standing in the way 424 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,680 of the things that I want in life. 425 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,760 So that's one that I would say no matter how self aware anyone 426 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,520 out there thinks they are, there's probably still more. 427 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,080 Work to that you up perfectly for that one. 428 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,640 Yeah, I love it. Oh my goodness. 429 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,400 I want to talk about imposter syndrome and I think this will 430 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,920 also tie in to a little bit of like shame and play because 431 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,840 those two things are really correlated. 432 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,920 I love Brene Brown's work there and I think this is something 433 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,560 that very like type A high achievers, we struggle to have 434 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,120 these things that we do for fun that serve no purpose. 435 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:51,640 We struggle to kind of let go and not feel shame around these 436 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:53,320 things. And similarly, we at the same 437 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,400 time feel imposter syndrome and shame about the context that 438 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,280 we're in. And so I think this is also 439 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,280 really related to our emotional fitness because a lot of shame 440 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:03,600 is how we are interpreting events. 441 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,800 There is that level of, I think self-awareness at play, our 442 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,000 ability to be resilient when those emotions arise or when 443 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,080 those thoughts are something that pop up. 444 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,000 And so I'm curious what your thoughts are there and how 445 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,800 emotional fitness ties into imposter syndrome because it's 446 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,480 such a buzzword and people are always talking about how they 447 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,440 feel impostor syndrome in in some context and it's painful. 448 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,440 People want to move past that and feel comfortable and 449 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,800 confident, whether it's in an educational setting or a career 450 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,080 setting. For sure. 451 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,080 I mean, imposter syndrome's really common. 452 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,280 There's actually something a little bit healthy about 453 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,440 imposter syndrome. So what we were just talking 454 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,320 about the idea of you don't know what you don't know. 455 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,840 Have you heard of the Dunning Kruger syndrome? 456 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,840 Right. It's like if you don't know a 457 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,320 lot about something you think you do because you don't realize 458 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,000 the scope of the problem. In my mind, imposter syndrome is 459 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,120 almost the opposite of that. It's it's almost like you see 460 00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:58,200 that the scope is so big that you rate yourself too low on how 461 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,720 much you actually know. So there's something cool I 462 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,680 think about saying, hey, what? What don't I know? 463 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,120 Where could I be challenging myself, etcetera. 464 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,400 The problem comes when we have such an unrealistic idea of how 465 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,360 we're seen in the world. When I talk about imposter 466 00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:18,160 syndrome, I talk about the deeper psychological truth of 467 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,160 it, which is imposter syndrome is essentially that if your 468 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:27,360 inner voice doesn't match what people are saying to you, that's 469 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,800 really uncomfortable. So if in your own mind you think 470 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:35,360 I'm not smart enough, I'm not good enough, or I shouldn't be 471 00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:38,040 here, I don't deserve this job or whatever, and then someone 472 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,720 comes to you and says you're doing so great at this job, 473 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,320 you're so smart, I think you're so great. 474 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,800 Those two things not matching is so uncomfortable that we would 475 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:51,080 almost rather convince ourselves that other people are lying than 476 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,600 to think maybe this voice I have inside isn't right. 477 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,400 And that's because we formed that voice very young in life 478 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,360 and it served us at some point. And so it's uncomfortable to 479 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:03,360 change it. So I think it ties into 480 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:06,360 emotional fitness because the more you learn about yourself 481 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,320 and the stronger your relationship with yourself gets, 482 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,400 the less you're going to reject what other people think about 483 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,320 you when it's a positive thing. And the more you're going to be 484 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:20,240 able to hold a strong core of yourself when you get negative 485 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,440 feedback, if that makes sense. Yeah, I also definitely think 486 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,440 there's something to be said for awareness of what your strengths 487 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,280 are, even if it's like a drop in the ocean compared to the field 488 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,640 you're working in. Being able to say, I don't know 489 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,840 the vast majority of this, there are all these people that have 490 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,840 so much more insight. But in this like tiny area, I 491 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,120 can provide some value. And being able to show up in 492 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:46,040 that respect, I think can be really effective, especially in 493 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,160 work settings, even though it does kind of go against that 494 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,080 internal need of like, I don't want to be rejected. 495 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,000 What if I reject myself 1st and what if I just set up for 496 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,280 failure? And so it's not a surprise when 497 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,880 I'm doing this thing that I'm really passionate about, it's 498 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,240 aligned with my purpose, which we talked about a lot of people 499 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,080 are now aiming and striving to do. 500 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,720 And the prospect of rejection there and others not sharing 501 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,640 your belief that like, this is what I want to do and I'm good 502 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,720 at it and this matters in my life is really daunting and 503 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,120 really scary. For sure, it is one of one of 504 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:19,640 the little exercises I'll tell people to do when they feel this 505 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,560 is start a self esteem file or a smile file or a win bin, 506 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,240 whatever you want to call it, whether it's a digital folder on 507 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,880 your desktop or an actual box in your room. 508 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,840 And every single time you get positive feedback of any kind, 509 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,600 anytime your sibling, your boss, your colleague, your friend, 510 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,760 your kid, anyone in your life says something that they love 511 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,720 about you or that you do well, write it down and put it in that 512 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,920 folder. And then when you're feeling 513 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,000 crappy about yourself or the imposter syndrome kind of peeks 514 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,360 out, go through that file. I've been doing this for 10 515 00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:54,480 years and it's very compelling to see 10 years of data that 516 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,040 I've made difference, made a difference in people's lives. 517 00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:01,640 So the problem is we tend to to obsess about negative feedback 518 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,240 and let positive feedback fly right by us. 519 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,720 So the goal here is collect that positive feedback and don't let 520 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,880 it escape you completely. And if you're like looking for a 521 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,720 new job or up for a promotion, that's like the best thing you 522 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,480 can do is be like this person said, I was killing it at this 523 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:16,920 time. That's true. 524 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,080 This is a strength. It's like not only internally 525 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,840 super effective, but there's a lot of external purposes as 526 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:24,920 well. So I'd ask you a question, which 527 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,640 is what is 1 strength that you didn't know you had until 528 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,640 someone pointed it out to you? That's a good question. 529 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:38,480 I feel like again, what you said about our almost internal 530 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,360 dialogue about how we show up in the world and how others 531 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:45,680 describe how we show up in the world when that doesn't match, 532 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,280 it's confusing. And so I know that I try like 533 00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,160 very hard to be compassionate and understanding and kind 534 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:56,240 towards others, but I know I'm trying and putting in that 535 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,000 effort and being very like consciously aware of it. 536 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,640 Like I'm taking these steps. This is a behavior that's being 537 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,280 engaged in. And so when I hear friends be 538 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,520 like, you are like one of the most thoughtful people and 539 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,600 you're such a great friend, having that synonymous with 540 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,040 identity versus behaviors that are taking place or like the 541 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,280 effort that I know I'm intentionally putting into this, 542 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,040 it just just naturally happen. I think that's almost 543 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,200 interesting to see. And Dick, OK, that strength, 544 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,880 they perceive that like I'm trying hard at this and this is 545 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,840 something I work at. And so I think that's a cool way 546 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,960 where like it almost mismatches and there's almost that 547 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:29,320 discomfort of like, Are you sure? 548 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,840 Like, I don't know, everyone doesn't perceive it that way, 549 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,040 but it also is, again, it's interesting to see when people 550 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,240 can highlight those strengths that you maybe haven't 551 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,800 internalized, just something that's like a win and can go in 552 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,640 that win bin. It's so nice to be validated. 553 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,480 I think this is another thing that Gen. 554 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,400 Z gets a lot of shit for is like, oh, we, you know, they 555 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,200 want trophies and recognition all the time. 556 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,800 It's like, we all want recognition. 557 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,800 We all need recognition. Each of us needs to feel like 558 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,240 what we're doing means something. 559 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,520 Why would we slave away at a job if it's not working or if nobody 560 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,280 wants to be doing what we're doing? 561 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,400 So I'm actually a big fan of ask for the recognition that you 562 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,320 need. You know, a lot of people are 563 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,760 bad at accepting compliments. And I say, not only should you 564 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,080 accept a compliment, but ask For more information. 565 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,200 Someone says gives you a negative piece of feedback. 566 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,680 You'd probably say, oh, well, can you give me some examples? 567 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,840 Or what do you mean? But when someone gives us 568 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,640 positive feedback, why don't we say thank you so much? 569 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,520 Like, tell me more like, when did you see that show up? 570 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,720 Or what does that feel like for you? 571 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,400 I don't think there's anything wrong with needing to feel like 572 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,680 what we're doing is working. What is the like emotional push 573 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,400 up you recommend people do if they are adverse to compliment? 574 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,400 Good question. I'd say it's mindfulness for a 575 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,520 lot of people. So if getting compliments makes 576 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,440 you uncomfortable, to avoid that discomfort, you're going to turn 577 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,000 away from it and instead just take a slow breath and say to 578 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:54,400 yourself, OK, I know this might not feel good to just take this, 579 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,480 but actually I'm doing everyone a service by being gracious and 580 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,480 I deserve this compliment. You know, I think that when we 581 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,360 are convinced people are bullshitting us, we're 582 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:06,360 essentially saying it's more likely that you would lie to me 583 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,480 than it is that I am wonderful in the way that you're saying I 584 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:10,760 am. Why would the people in your 585 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,160 life be? Mind you, you know, take it in, 586 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,520 let yourself have it. What about for people who 587 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,840 struggle to accept feedback, they're not doing that? 588 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,640 Example of can you tell me a little bit more? 589 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,840 Is there a situation that I can tie to this so I can really be 590 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,800 aware of what the behavior was or the interaction and reflect 591 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,400 on that? For people that don't respond 592 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,320 well to feedback or criticism? This comes up a lot in 593 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:38,440 workplaces because it can be so direct and formal and objective, 594 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,280 even though it feels very subjective and personal. 595 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,000 What is that related to emotional fitness wise and what 596 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,280 do you recommend that people do to combat that? 597 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,400 Taking in feedback is hard. You know, hearing that you're 598 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,200 not doing something well or that people didn't like what you put 599 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,600 out there, that sucks. You know, it completely makes 600 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,160 sense that your first instinct would be to push it away or to 601 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,760 deny it or to be defensive or, you know, whatever. 602 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,400 But this is one of those muscles where you can get better at 603 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,800 taking in feedback. So the next time you get a piece 604 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,160 of feedback, give yourself a little space. 605 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,120 Say that's interesting. Give me 10 minutes to think 606 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:14,680 about that, and then let's talk about it. 607 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,760 And in that 10 minutes, tune into yourself, what's happening? 608 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,320 What is your body telling you? What are you worried about? 609 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,960 You know, if they said, oh, the project you turned in didn't 610 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,360 really work, does it feel like they're saying you suck at your 611 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:29,680 jaw because that's not what they said. 612 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,320 And so you have to distinguish that. 613 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,840 And then think about the fact that they trusted you to give 614 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,280 you this feedback, which says something about you in a 615 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,480 positive way. And then go back to them and 616 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,480 say, I'm really going to think about that. 617 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,480 Thank you for being willing to share that with me. 618 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,360 So the push up that I would tell people who aren't so right at 619 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,400 taking in feedback is lean into the discomfort and send a text 620 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,800 message to someone in your life once a week or once a month that 621 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,160 says, hey, I'm working on my emotional fitness and in 622 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,720 particular, I want to get better at taking in feedback. 623 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,920 So I would love it if you would tell me one thing that I'm doing 624 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:07,240 well in our relationship and one thing that I could do 10% 625 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,800 better. And I think 10% better is nice 626 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,960 because you're not saying like, what should I completely change 627 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,000 about myself? It's more just how can I level 628 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,080 up a little bit? And then when you get the 629 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,320 message back, look at it. Check in with yourself. 630 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,320 How do you feel about it? Thank them for it, offer to 631 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,680 return the favor if they want it. 632 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,000 And the more you do this, the less it will feel really 633 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,080 uncomfortable to get. Feedback of a funny anecdote of 634 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,680 like the reverse of this, which is that when I was in treatment, 635 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,760 I was in a therapeutic boarding school for 14 months and we went 636 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,040 heavy on the feedback, like 3 * a week. 637 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,800 We had like circles with all the girls and there was always the 638 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:44,760 opportunity for feedback. Sometimes it was bullying as 639 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,080 feedback, but it was like very direct. 640 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,160 You're just not being authentic or like this tour wasn't done 641 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,760 like how the rest of people have been doing it. 642 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,000 Can you work on that and being able to be open and accepting to 643 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,160 that, sit with it, not respond with something like after 14 644 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,840 months, you can do. And so I was talking to one of 645 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,720 my friends and she was like, I will frequently go up to my 646 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,320 boyfriend and be like, what's the feedback like? 647 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,120 Do you have any thoughts? How can I improve? 648 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,080 And I'm like, this isn't a, this is a relationship, not a 649 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:14,880 quarterly review. Like I will come to you if 650 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,120 something's not going right. She's like, is there any 651 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,960 feedback? Is there any room for growth? 652 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:23,160 And so it's really funny when we really emphasize these areas and 653 00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,520 we almost are like overcorrecting and making like 654 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,760 all the effort to make sure we're showing up in that way. 655 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,360 And I just thought that was hilarious because most people 656 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,560 don't have that problem of asking for too much feedback. 657 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,480 For sure, although I think that's cool, like in my 658 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,200 relationships, I will every once in a while say, hey, let's check 659 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,160 in. How are we doing? 660 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,480 How are we feeling? What can we do better? 661 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,880 How can we show up for each other in a in a better way? 662 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,080 So I'm here for that. But the other thing to remember 663 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,000 is any feedback a person gives you is at least partly to do 664 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,960 with them and not you. You know, every relationship 665 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,880 between two people is Co created by both of those people. 666 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,800 And when someone says here's a way that I see you, well, that's 667 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,600 partially because of their experience. 668 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,560 So emotional fitness is being able to check in with yourself 669 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,560 and say, how much of this is actually mine? 670 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,640 What responsibility do I hold here? 671 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,440 In what ways could I show up better, which will allow them to 672 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,680 show up better? And what ways do I have to just 673 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,280 be OK with the fact that I can't fix anyone else and that I might 674 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,720 not be able to be what this other person needs me to be in 675 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:23,840 this moment? Yeah. 676 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,760 I think the other piece of feedback that's challenging what 677 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,760 you mentioned is like the emotional intensity for some 678 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,080 people and taking that 10 minutes to like step back, calm 679 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,120 down, be more logical. I think this is one of those 680 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,200 areas we talked about the beginning, which a lot of people 681 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,560 have room for growth because I'm like, I'm very sensitive and 682 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,160 learning those skills to respond more effectively to my emotions, 683 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,040 know what my emotional bandwidth is, was so freeing because it's 684 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,840 not like your emotions are controlling you. 685 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,600 Obviously we can't control our emotions, but it's more I can 686 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,920 work with them and I understand what to expect and what skills 687 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,800 work and how to communicate my limits. 688 00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,720 And so I'm curious what your advice is for people that have 689 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,040 that experience where the emotional intensity city maybe 690 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,440 doesn't fit the situation. It's valid, but it's not 691 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,000 justified. And rather than just being like, 692 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,000 OK, I'm super sensitive, anytime I get feedback, I'm going to 693 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:13,840 start crying. And that's just a given. 694 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,240 Or any other context that emotional intensity can show up. 695 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,600 What are some ways that people can work on that? 696 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,320 Yeah, I tell this story in the book that when I first started 697 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,760 going to therapy, I would cry all the time. 698 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,280 Like I'd tear up anytime I was talking about anything. 699 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,000 And it felt really frustrating because I'd be like, I'm not 700 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,000 actually sad about this. Don't worry about this. 701 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,000 I'm not. I'm not upset, it's OK. 702 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,760 You're right. And eventually my therapist was 703 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,080 like, maybe you're not super upset about this, but obviously 704 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,200 something is trying to be seen here. 705 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,320 So what if we just let you feel what you need to feel? 706 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,680 So if you feel like you're hypersensitive, it probably 707 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,960 means that there's something very valid that needs to be 708 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,000 understood. And I think therapy is a really 709 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,720 amazing place to understand that. 710 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,520 The other thing I would say is never underestimate the 711 00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,400 incredible power of a few slow, deep breaths. 712 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,680 You know, I agree that we can't control our emotions all the 713 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,120 time, but when I'm feeling overwhelmed, I do have more 714 00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:12,040 control over it than I thought by just pausing and taking a few 715 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,280 deep breaths and calming my nervous system down. 716 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,120 Because it's one thing when you feel sad about something or 717 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:19,880 upset about something. It's another thing when your 718 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,320 body's in fight or flight mode and it's telling you that 719 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,159 something is dangerous when it's not. 720 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,719 And I think by calming those systems, we can look at things a 721 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,000 little bit more logically. This actually makes me think of 722 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,480 one of my least favorite phrases out there is always trust your 723 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,600 gut. Everyone always says always 724 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,520 trust your gut, no matter what your gut knows. 725 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,000 But the truth is that your gut instinct was formed as much 726 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,120 around trauma as it was around truth. 727 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:49,280 So for example, if you were bit by a dog as a kid, your gut 728 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,120 instinct around all dogs might be that they're dangerous, but 729 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,520 they're not all dangerous. So it's our responsibility to be 730 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,800 emotionally fit in a way that we know, our gut instincts pointing 731 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,560 us toward what we want in life. Or are they just trying to avoid 732 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,560 danger in a way that might not actually be serving us? 733 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:11,120 What is the like a difference between emotional intelligence 734 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,640 and emotional fitness? And what your thoughts are 735 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,360 there? Are they synonymous or people 736 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,320 that are emotionally intelligent also really emotionally fit? 737 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,480 Are these skills you work on separately? 738 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,000 Can you explain the two? So I think there is a difference 739 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,840 in the sense that emotional fitness is the ongoing proactive 740 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,640 practice of becoming more emotionally intelligent, OK, You 741 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,200 know, So emotional fitness is a practice, Emotional intelligence 742 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:41,200 is a state that you have. And the other thing about 743 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,560 emotional intelligence is there's difference between 744 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,880 knowing and being able to do something about without knowing. 745 00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:50,080 So you can be really emotionally intelligent and say, oh, I know 746 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,960 exactly what I need to change in my life. 747 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,080 That's different than actually being able to change it. 748 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,280 I work with plenty of people who are like, I did the thing again, 749 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,920 even though I know I shouldn't do it and I recognized it right 750 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:01,720 in front of my eyes, but here I am doing it. 751 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,040 So you can be super emotionally intelligent, but not necessarily 752 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,560 feel like you have the emotional fitness to make change in your 753 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,920 life. So it's an ongoing, it's a 754 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,800 driver practice. I don't know anyone who doesn't 755 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,040 have more work to do. Yeah, you talked about how 756 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,040 therapy is a very important practice for people to dig into, 757 00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,440 struggling to receive feedback, intense emotional responses, all 758 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,080 these areas that are like emotional fitness adjacent. 759 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,680 I'm curious what your thoughts are on when people can 760 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,880 independently work on their emotional fitness. 761 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,680 They can almost improve these blind spots, work on these 762 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,960 skills versus this would be helpful to work on in therapy. 763 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,920 I need a professional to support me in this progress. 764 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,520 And obviously you can do both, right? 765 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,160 You can be in therapy and also independently work on these 766 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,760 other areas of emotional fitness. 767 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,280 But for people who are listening and they're like, I'm really not 768 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,520 sure what the line is. Obviously it'll be different for 769 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,360 everyone. What is your advice there? 770 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,240 I almost compare therapy in this sense to having a trainer. 771 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,000 Yeah, you can totally work out without a trainer. 772 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:02,440 Tons of people can. You can go your whole life 773 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,200 without a trainer no problem. But it's almost undeniable that 774 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:09,480 if you have a trainer, your practice is probably going to 775 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,000 become better as a result, not only with that trainer, but also 776 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,880 when you're not even with them. Because now you've learned a new 777 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,920 way to work out. You have a better sense of your 778 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,840 form, of the things you didn't realize you need to work on, 779 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,080 that kind of thing. So my feeling is that anyone who 780 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,800 has the option to be in therapy, go do it. 781 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,840 Just go do it because you're going to learn things about 782 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,120 yourself that you never realized. 783 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,920 But if therapy isn't an option for you, there are still so many 784 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,640 ways to work on your emotional fitness. 785 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,720 Probably the ideal thing is to be doing both at the. 786 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:38,120 Same. Yeah. 787 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,440 A lot of people, like you said, know what to do, but they don't 788 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,160 do it. This is especially true for 789 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,000 physical health and fitness. It's like everyone, if you could 790 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,920 solve how to get people to go to the gym, you would make billions 791 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:49,800 of dollars. Yeah. 792 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,320 How does this show up for mental health? 793 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,520 Do you find that it is less intensive, it's easier for 794 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:58,960 people to go to the mental gym versus the physical gym? 795 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,240 Or are we applying the same principles of like having an 796 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:04,400 accountability buddy? Are we scheduling it? 797 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,920 Are we making it fun and reinforcing building a habit? 798 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,640 What are your thoughts there about having that resilience 799 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,600 when it comes to going to the mental gym, having that 800 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,160 motivation similar to kind of our physical health? 801 00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:18,480 Yeah, so I'll often say most people don't go to therapy 802 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:19,800 because they don't know what to do. 803 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,880 Most people go to therapy because they do know what to do, 804 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,920 but need help understanding why they're not doing it. 805 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,480 So just like with physical health, I know I need to 806 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,520 exercise, I know I need to eat well, but I'm not. 807 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,080 Why am I not? Why am I getting in my own way? 808 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,040 And that's what I find a lot with mental health is most 809 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:36,800 people know what they need to do. 810 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,480 But how do you do it? In what ways are you sabotaging 811 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,120 yourself? And how can you get out of your 812 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:43,840 own way? You know, I have people who say, 813 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,120 oh, I'm in these unhealthy relationships over and over 814 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,160 again. I know that I shouldn't be, but 815 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,840 how and why do I feel pulled toward these unhealthy 816 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,640 relationships? That's the complicated work. 817 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:56,560 And that's where I think therapy can be really helpful is if you 818 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:59,160 know what you need to do, but you don't seem to be doing it, 819 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,840 there's probably a really complicated and beautiful and 820 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,680 interesting reason why. And as you learn what that 821 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,960 reason is, you're going to have more power to change it. 822 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,880 So give yourself a little break. I think self compassion is one 823 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,600 of the most important ingredients in emotional 824 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,360 fitness. Anything that makes a person who 825 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,600 they are, even things that make people annoying and frustrating 826 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,720 and infuriating, those things served them well at some point 827 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:27,120 or they wouldn't be that way. And as we accept that about 828 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,960 ourselves and other people, we free up space to change. 829 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,800 Yeah. I'm curious as far as building 830 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,120 momentum, that's something that's really helpful for people 831 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,640 that are investing in their physical health. 832 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,400 They see progress, they feel better, and then you can just 833 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,320 continue that, like reinforcement cycle. 834 00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,120 Is there an area of emotional fitness that is helpful to start 835 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,520 with where you would see that positive result? 836 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,680 You feel the shift and how you're interacting with your 837 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,920 surroundings and it's easier to stay motivated. 838 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,800 Continue putting the reps in and showing up at the mental gym. 839 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,680 Now that's a great question, because I think mental health is 840 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,760 a little different than physical health in that it's a little bit 841 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,720 less measurable and concrete, and some of the most beautiful 842 00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:14,600 signs of good mental and emotional health can't really be 843 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,040 measured. It's just a feeling. 844 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,240 I remember when I was going to therapy for years, I was like, 845 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,040 So what am I doing all this for? But then I just kind of woke up 846 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,440 one day and I was like, oh shit, all my relationships are better 847 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,920 than they were before. I'm, I just feel more satisfied 848 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,520 with my life. I seem to be making better 849 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:33,440 choices, healthier people just seem to be appearing around me. 850 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:34,880 I'm not really sure when this happened. 851 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:37,680 So there is this element of trust you have to have. 852 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,800 But I would say when it comes to emotional fitness, the reason 853 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,720 mindfulness is first is that anything you're going to do is 854 00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:46,760 going to be uncomfortable. So getting better at tolerating 855 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,720 discomfort is really important. And that is kind of measurable. 856 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,680 So I'd tell someone, think of something that makes you a 857 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,560 little uncomfortable, like saying no having a good boundary 858 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,320 with someone. Or maybe something that makes 859 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,880 you uncomfortable is not being on your phone all the time. 860 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,880 Or maybe you're uncomfortable apologizing, whatever it is. 861 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,320 And practice leaning toward that discomfort and practice it over 862 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,000 and over again until it doesn't make you as uncomfortable. 863 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,920 And that's pretty profound if when you can see, oh, I used to 864 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,640 have so much trouble saying no and now I still don't love it. 865 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,720 But I just said no to something. That's a sign that you're 866 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,320 becoming more emotionally fit. And the better you are at that, 867 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,320 the easier all of the rest of the traits will be to work on. 868 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,280 Yeah. Another question about the 869 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,480 process of doing our emotional push ups, investing in these 870 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,920 different areas of fitness. We talked about saying no, 871 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,280 setting a boundary, giving feedback, getting feedback. 872 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,400 These are more behavioral things. 873 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,600 I know like for me, a big mental health behavior that helps my 874 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:50,280 emotional fitness is getting enough sleep. 875 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,200 It's like not necessarily 100% emotional, but it has a direct 876 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,880 impact on my emotional vulnerability. 877 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,960 And so I'm curious when we talk about emotional fitness, how 878 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,840 much of this is truly internal of like, how am I feeling? 879 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,400 How am I thinking about this versus engaging in these 880 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,600 behaviors that in turn impact our thoughts and our emotions? 881 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,800 Well, first of all, mind, body connection is so real. 882 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:12,960 I'm glad that you mentioned that. 883 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,760 I'll have people come in and say I'm really struggling, I'm 884 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,040 depressed, I'm sad, and then I'll find out that they only 885 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,800 sleep 4 hours a night, that they eat junk food, and that they 886 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,640 don't move their body. It's like, right? 887 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,920 I know it's hard to exercise when you feel down, but these 888 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:30,080 things really affect each other and working on your physical 889 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,880 health will improve your mental health and vice versa. 890 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,040 So I think that's really important, but it sounds like 891 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:41,320 you're asking is there a non behavioral aspect to emotional 892 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:42,520 health? Yeah, like for people who are 893 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:47,840 like, OK, I'm going to the mental gym, I'm doing my mental 894 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,520 push ups, I'm working on my emotional fitness. 895 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,560 I'm curious. Like when I initially think 896 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,080 about that, I'm like, you're just thinking through it. 897 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,680 Like you're telling yourself, OK, how can I be more mindful? 898 00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,760 How much distress am I experiencing? 899 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,480 And I think the behaviors are also very aligned with improving 900 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,520 your emotional fitness. And so it can be hard to kind of 901 00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,080 synthesize those two and be like these behaviors that maybe are 902 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,520 more related to like my relationships or my career or my 903 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,600 academics also are impacting our emotional fitness. 904 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,360 And conversely, really sitting with those thoughts and really 905 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,520 paying attention to those emotional experiences, like 906 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,480 there's just a lot of different facets to what emotional fitness 907 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,360 means for each person. For sure, I think you're right. 908 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:35,080 It's the actions, behaviors, and it's also just the intangible 909 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,040 things. It's being able to sit still 910 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,240 with yourself. It's, you know, being as kind to 911 00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:42,000 yourself as you are to your best friend. 912 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,200 You know, if you're treating anyone in your life better than 913 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,120 you're treating yourself, you have work to do. 914 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,480 You know, like you, as much as anyone else, are worthy of your 915 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,360 own love and kindness. So I agree with you, there's 916 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,240 plenty of behaviors to do, but at the end of the day, sometimes 917 00:43:57,240 --> 00:44:02,080 it's just looking inward and feeling proud of how far you've 918 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,640 come and, you know, recognizing your gains and trusting that 919 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,440 you're going to keep moving toward where you want to. 920 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:08,800 Go, yeah. And I think for a lot of people, 921 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,720 if you don't have that internal peace in check, the behaviors 922 00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:13,760 are impossible to do totally. Like it's just you can't get 923 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,760 yourself to do those things. If you don't think you're worthy 924 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:17,920 of getting better, you're going to fight against yourself to get 925 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,120 better, so that's really important. 926 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,640 I would love to talk about almost mentally training too 927 00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,680 hard we can burnout. Physically, we can injure 928 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,360 ourselves. Is there too much like 929 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,360 investment in our emotional fitness? 930 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,920 Can we burn out? Can we feel really stressed? 931 00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:38,400 Do we have a bandwidth for how much we can try and improve our 932 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,360 emotional fitness in like a given period of time? 933 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,720 For sure, I, I think there is such a thing as hyper fixating 934 00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:47,760 on your own self and mental health. 935 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,160 You know, if the only thing you ever read are self help books 936 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,360 and the only thing you're ever thinking about is how to get 937 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,400 better. And you know, you also have to 938 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,840 just get out there and live life and feel joy and let yourself 939 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:00,600 off the hook a little bit. For sure. 940 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,920 And then while self-awareness is really important and we have to 941 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,720 be thinking about who we are etcetera. 942 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:12,680 I also think some just trust in ourselves and, you know, all of 943 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,120 that is really important. One question I get a lot is 944 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,840 people will say, you know, I see that when your traits is 945 00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:20,640 empathy, but is there such a thing as being too empathetic? 946 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,240 You know, I I empathize with everyone and and it's really 947 00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:26,720 overwhelming. My response to that is most 948 00:45:26,720 --> 00:45:30,120 people who think that they're too empathetic actually just 949 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,400 don't have enough boundaries. My job is literally to empathize 950 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,600 with people, but my job is also full of boundaries. 951 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:38,640 There's a reason why therapists aren't friends with their 952 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,280 patients and why the session starts on time and ends on time, 953 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:43,920 and that we meet in the same place all the time. 954 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,240 Those boundaries are in place so that I can be really deeply 955 00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:49,280 empathetic with the person in that hour. 956 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:54,400 Similarly, if you find yourself feeling like you have too many 957 00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,720 feelings for everyone else and not enough for yourself, instead 958 00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:59,200 of trying to have less for everyone else, just build 959 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:02,040 boundaries around it so that that empathy is flowing to 960 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,080 yourself first. You know, classic airplane 961 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:05,720 theory. You have to put your own mask on 962 00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:06,640 1st. Yeah. 963 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,200 The last thing that I want to ask you about is what probably a 964 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:11,880 lot of people are experiencing after listening to this 965 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,800 conversation is like, OK, I should be more emotionally fit. 966 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,840 I should have more emotional intelligence, should be going to 967 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,040 the mental gym. And you've talked about on your 968 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,680 social media, and I'm sure you talk about it in the book as 969 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,160 well, why we shouldn't be shooting ourselves, why we 970 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:27,640 shouldn't be putting all this pressure on all these things 971 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,840 that we we should do. And so I'm curious if you can 972 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,480 speak to that. I think after listening to this, 973 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,120 we have little self-awareness of like where our blind spots are, 974 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,480 where there's room for growth. And how do you not fall into 975 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,000 that trap? For sure. 976 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,360 So I often say it stop shitting all over yourself. 977 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,960 You know, when you say I should be better at my job, or I should 978 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,920 be prettier, or I should have worked last night instead of 979 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,240 watching TV, that mindset isn't super helpful because if you 980 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:56,040 feel like you should have done something already, then it feels 981 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,360 like you couldn't do it now. You have to leave space for the 982 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,080 idea that that change is still possible. 983 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:04,800 So I recommend that when you say should to yourself, try again 984 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,360 and replace should and should have with could and could have. 985 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,360 So instead of saying, oh, I should have a better job, say I 986 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,000 could have a better job if I took these kinds of actions and 987 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,720 really focused on it. Instead of saying I should have 988 00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:21,240 worked last night instead of watching TV be you might say, 989 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:23,680 OK, well, I could have worked last night, but I decided to 990 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,400 watch TV because I needed rest today. 991 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,840 I'll work instead. And just this mindset shift puts 992 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,600 you in a place to say, all right, well, it hasn't happened 993 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,680 yet, but that doesn't mean it can't happen now. 994 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,440 Yeah, I love that. And I think it's also helpful 995 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,360 with comparison to others. I do that a lot where I'm like, 996 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,160 I wish I had the thing or I wish I was in that position or I wish 997 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,120 I had that opportunity. And then I think about the could 998 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:49,560 and what that person did to get there. 999 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,680 And I'm like, do I want to take 6000 math classes? 1000 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,960 Like do I want to spend all this time in this? 1001 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,000 Like, no, that would be my worst nightmare. 1002 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,040 And in fact, it did probably won't happen. 1003 00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,080 It could happen, but it won't because I don't want to do that 1004 00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,320 thing and that wouldn't be enjoyable for me. 1005 00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,160 And that is really freeing to like, OK, there's that emotional 1006 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,440 experience, but like, is that something that I really want? 1007 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:11,760 I could do it if I really wanted to, but I just don't. 1008 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:13,680 For sure. And the should will keep you 1009 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,120 from doing it when you do. I want to like the example I 1010 00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:20,880 give is, you know, I, I started yoga not that long ago and I 1011 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,960 remember this beautiful, incredible Yogi woman in front 1012 00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,400 of me just, you know, mastering every pose. 1013 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,000 And I spent the whole class comparing myself to her and 1014 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,760 feeling really crappy and being like, oh, I should be better at 1015 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,400 this and I'm never going to be as good as her. 1016 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,040 And afterwards, I realized I just completely cheated myself 1017 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,560 out of an opportunity to get a little better, to take one step 1018 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,800 closer to her. Because instead of focusing on 1019 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,320 my practice in that class, I was comparing myself. 1020 00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:48,240 And so if you, you know, in the workplace, if you're comparing 1021 00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:51,000 yourself to everyone else, that's time you could spend 1022 00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:54,920 using them as motivation to move toward that place. 1023 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,080 Yeah, yeah. Well, if people want to get your 1024 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,040 book, follow along on social media. 1025 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:01,720 All of the things, where can they do that? 1026 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,640 Absolutely, I would love to connect with your community and 1027 00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,560 can I just say you are an absolutely lovely host and you 1028 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:09,880 give me hope for the next generation. 1029 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,360 So my book is called Flex Your feelings. 1030 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,640 Train your brain to develop the seven traits of emotional 1031 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,280 fitness. And you can get it anywhere that 1032 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,000 you buy books, wherever that might be and on social media. 1033 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:27,880 My handle is at Dr. Emily Anhalt DREMILYA NHALT. 1034 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,120 I'd love to connect with people on any platform and thank you so 1035 00:49:31,120 --> 00:49:32,640 much for having me. You are a delight. 1036 00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:35,240 Of course, thank you and I'll put all those in the show notes. 1037 00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:37,120 OK, great. If you enjoyed this episode, if 1038 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:39,800 she persisted, make sure to leave a review, subscribe and 1039 00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,160 share with a friend or family member. 1040 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:44,480 Follow along at at she persist a podcast on TikTok, Instagram, 1041 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,320 YouTube and more for bonus content. 1042 00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,280 Thanks for listening and keep persisting.