1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,960 Welcome to Sheep Assisted, I'm your host Sadie Sutton, a 19 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,440 year old from the Bay Area studying psychology at the 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,000 University of Pennsylvania. Sheep resisted is the teen 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,880 mental health podcast made for teenagers by a teen. 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,120 In each episode I'll bring you authentic, accessible and 6 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,400 relatable conversations about every aspect of mental Wellness 7 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,000 you can expect. Evidence based teen approved 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,000 resources, coping skills including lots of DBT insights 9 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:28,680 and education, and each piece of content you consume. 10 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,479 She Persisted offers you a safe space to feel validated and 11 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,160 understood in your struggle while encouraging you to take 12 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:37,520 ownership of your journey and build your life worth living. 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:41,720 So let's dive in. This week on She Persisted. 14 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,600 I think even right now, a lot of people are going through things 15 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,880 that no one's been through before. 16 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:50,400 You get to this particular space where you think, well, nobody 17 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,560 has the experience, so how will I make it through this, right? 18 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,960 And I think the exercise that we all can kind of take ourselves 19 00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:59,840 through is, I may not have experience for what I'm going 20 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,800 through right now, but I know I've had a situation in which I 21 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,840 was starting from scratch, whether it was college, whether 22 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,200 it was tryouts for a team, whatever it is. 23 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,440 But I was able to learn and I was able to curate a way of 24 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,360 feeling comfortable enough to move forward. 25 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,160 Hello, hello, and welcome back to another episode of She 26 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,920 Persisted. I'm so excited you're here 27 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,240 today. We have a really incredible 28 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,800 individual on the podcast today, Yasmin Cheyenne. 29 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,720 She's the author of The Sugar Jar and Wisdom of the Path, 30 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,840 which has just come out. She is also a motivational 31 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,880 speaker and a self healing workshop leader. 32 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,200 And this was just such an incredible conversation. 33 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:34,960 We touched on so many different things. 34 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:38,000 We talked about navigating grief, how you can lean into 35 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,360 your own wisdom inside yourself. We talked about just the general 36 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,160 healing journey. And this was a really inspiring 37 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,720 and incredible conversation. But I know you'll have a lot of 38 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,960 great takeaways from. So with that, let's dive in. 39 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,600 Thank you so much for joining me today on She persisted. 40 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,400 I am so so excited to have you on the show and share your 41 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,080 journey and your books and your work with the She Persisted 42 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,240 audience. I'm so excited to be here. 43 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,440 Thank you for having me. Of course. 44 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,320 Well, to get things started, people have heard your official 45 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,880 bio, but I would love to get your journey and your background 46 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,160 and your words. Obviously today you're an 47 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,000 advocate. You have multiple books out, you 48 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,280 host a podcast as well. You've done all this incredible 49 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,200 work, but to kind of rewind and go back to the beginning, How 50 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,720 did you end up in the mental health space and doing this 51 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,040 work? My mental health journey started 52 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,960 when I was on active duty in the military. 53 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,560 I got the opportunity to serve as a victim advocate when I was 54 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,080 serving in the Air Force. And I think working with victims 55 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,240 of domestic violence, working with victims of crime, it just 56 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:43,000 became really curious about, OK, what happens to them after they 57 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,440 have this experience. And I think it opened up my own 58 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,880 healing journey to realizing I have a capacity to hold space 59 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,000 for really hard experiences. And I wonder, you know, how I 60 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,160 can begin to hold space for myself while I'm holding space 61 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,760 for these other people. So that was kind of the initial 62 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:03,320 starting point 15 plus years ago when I decided I really wanted 63 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,160 to learn more about how what we go through effects our mental 64 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,600 health. I think holding space for other 65 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,280 people is something that people either like, I know how to do 66 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,440 this, I'm good at this. So they're like, that makes me 67 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,640 uncomfortable, so I'm going to avoid it. 68 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,560 And when you're like, how can I be better at this? 69 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,120 There's sometimes like, OK, we'll validate, use eye contact, 70 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:28,280 like these very basic things, but for people who want to show 71 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,480 up more effectively and as a better friend or family member 72 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,520 in their relationships and kind of improve that ability to hold 73 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,080 space for people. Because it is really one of the 74 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,240 most incredible traits to have and one of the greatest gifts 75 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,560 you can give someone else. Do you have any advice or tips 76 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,280 that were helpful, especially in those early days before you did 77 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,200 all the internal work and got really good about speaking about 78 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,680 your own experiences? I will be honest and say that I 79 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,560 think it's something that I've always been able to do, but I 80 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,880 don't think that I was doing a good job of it in the past 81 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,600 because I think I was more concerned about what they would 82 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,760 think about what I was doing versus actually holding space 83 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,840 for them and being present to what they needed. 84 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,560 I think it's a natural response as well. 85 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,160 Like, Oh my God, are they going to be OK? 86 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,040 Am I, you know, like, am I doing all the things right? 87 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,279 But I think we really forget how amazing presence is and just 88 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,360 listening to someone, not necessarily trying to solve 89 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,040 their problems, not necessarily having the answers, but asking 90 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:26,800 them, what do you need? What do you think? 91 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,480 How are you feeling? A lot of times people just want 92 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:31,440 to talk. They don't really want to hear 93 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:32,960 your thoughts, they don't want to hear your opinion. 94 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,200 And whether you have any tools or not, listening is something 95 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,240 that I think we can all do better, including myself. 96 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:42,000 Yeah, no, it's, it's funny because I've been thinking about 97 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,560 that a lot recently because I feel like that's one of the 98 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,880 biggest relationship or like networking or however you want 99 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:49,360 to spin it. It's like one of those big 100 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,080 skills that people will tell you, but I think there's this 101 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:53,960 interesting balance of when you've struggled to be 102 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,560 vulnerable or that's been more uncomfortable. 103 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,200 It's almost like doing the work and sitting in that discomfort, 104 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,360 which is the key to so many things, is being more vulnerable 105 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,360 or talking about yourself or sharing those things so you 106 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,040 allow people to get to know you. And then on the flip side, it's 107 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,600 like when you are in relationships and supporting 108 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,320 other people, that skill of just listening and not sharing those 109 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,760 personal anecdotes or not being like, I've been through this 110 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,400 too, here's exactly how I solve this is also so powerful. 111 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,400 So it's like these very opposite sides of the spectrum, but both 112 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,520 are really, really important how to navigate and refine and 113 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,520 become effective at. Absolutely, and I think it's so 114 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,880 important sometimes just to ask people, how can I be here for 115 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:34,880 you? Do you want to hear what my 116 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:36,200 thoughts or do you want me to listen? 117 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,720 I don't we, I think we think that we have to have the answer 118 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,400 and show up perfectly when asking someone what they need 119 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,040 and they'll say, you know what, I really just want to talk or 120 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:45,560 yes, I would love to hear what you have to say. 121 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,760 What do you mean? You know, like the net opens the 122 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,520 door, respecting people's boundaries. 123 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,760 It's it's as simple as asking that question can help us show 124 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,720 up for people how they they need us to. 125 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,840 Yeah, and it's not a weakness. I sometimes think internally I'm 126 00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:00,200 like, well, I should know what they want in this situation or I 127 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:01,720 should just be able to understand. 128 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,160 And when people like care enough to actually ask and and want to 129 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,560 be as effective and helpful to you as possible, they're even 130 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,040 like, what can I do in this situation? 131 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,640 I think that really does show that you care and and value that 132 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,000 relationship. And it's not like how dare you 133 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,360 not know exactly what I want even though I haven't told you. 134 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,520 Absolutely, I agree. So I want to talk about your 135 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,360 first book before we dive into your new book that just came 136 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,960 out. But you have this idea of the 137 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,600 Sugar Jar, which is a way that people can really look back on 138 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,480 their overall growth and see all the progress that they've made. 139 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,760 And I think this is something people might be somewhat 140 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,360 familiar with, but it's a really important concept and element in 141 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,480 your podcast is also called The Sugar Jar. 142 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,080 So I would love to hear how you came up with this like metaphor, 143 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,200 I guess you could call it, how that applied to your own journey 144 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,440 and also how listeners can apply that in their own lives because 145 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,560 it is such an important concept. Yeah, Thank you. 146 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,880 Well, the sugar jar is really an opportunity for us to check in 147 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,880 with our boundaries, right? Because the jar represents us. 148 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:10,480 Even if we are parents, friends, family, we only have one jar 149 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,480 because there's only one of us. The sugar in the jar represents 150 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,560 our energy, our time, our resources, anything people want 151 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,680 from us, anything people want to take, give. 152 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,800 And the lid represents our boundaries because in order for 153 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,000 people to get to the sweet parts of us, we have to say yes and 154 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,720 take the lid off. But most of us are walking 155 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,560 around with no lid on our jar. People are just walking in and 156 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:34,800 out of our lives, taking the energy, taking our car, taking 157 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,720 our money, taking our everything. 158 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:41,280 And often we say to ourselves, they're using me, they're taking 159 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,160 advantage of me. They are, you know, they are 160 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,720 taking from me. And part of that is probably 161 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,760 true, but the other part is how are they able to have access to 162 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,160 you? And the, that answer is because 163 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,080 we don't have boundaries. And so the sugar jar is an 164 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,880 opportunity to check in and say, do I have enough energy for what 165 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:01,920 they're asking me for? Do I want to help you move? 166 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,760 Can I actually help you with that project? 167 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,960 You know, do I want to, am I available to date right now? 168 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:12,560 It's a check in with ourselves. And I think for many of us, 169 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,120 myself for sure, when I, when this concept came to me, I 170 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,680 thought I was doing a good job. I had been healing for a long 171 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,120 time. I had been teaching this work 172 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,400 for a long time, but I was exhausted. 173 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,880 I was overwhelmed. And even the good stuff felt 174 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,360 like too much. Like I would get a party 175 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,120 invitation. I'd be like, Oh my God, there's 176 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:31,000 another birthday. Like I cannot do anything else. 177 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,360 And it wasn't that I didn't want to celebrate my friends. 178 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,360 It wasn't that I didn't want to go to the events. 179 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,039 It was that I was saying yes to so many things. 180 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:40,840 That was a that was a no. I didn't even have enough 181 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,320 energy, enough sugar, enough sweet parts of me for myself. 182 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,920 And so the invitation in the sugar jar is to ask yourself how 183 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:51,840 you can begin to say yes to yourself. 184 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,120 First, have a full jar so that you can have the sweet parts of 185 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,280 yourself for you. And then show up with the people 186 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,800 and places and things that you want to be with full, not 187 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,840 resentful, angry and tired, but your best self. 188 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,040 Yeah, I think about this a lot, especially when it's like during 189 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,880 the school year, it's around finals or things are just really 190 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:16,160 busy and overwhelming and it feels like I have less like 191 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:17,400 bandwidth. There's always what I'm 192 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,640 referring to it as. And I think about if I'm saying 193 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,280 yes to things or making commitments, I'm like, am I 194 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,000 bringing a net positive or a net negative to the situation? 195 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,120 And a lot of the times it's like, OK, maybe it's a little 196 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,200 bit positive, but I'm also tired and not at full energy. 197 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,400 But I know that it's so important to invest in these 198 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,480 relationships. And I like seeing my friends and 199 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,080 I can at least like hang out and be lighthearted, even if it's 200 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,760 not some groundbreaking discussion. 201 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,120 But there's also some people I'll be rounding up big. 202 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,320 I know that there is like something going on internally or 203 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:50,760 we have something to work through. 204 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,840 And I'm also low energy and don't have any sugar left at 205 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,960 that point. So me going and showing up in 206 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,800 that interaction isn't going to bring any good to them, even if 207 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,160 it's the commitment or like we've said, we were going to get 208 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,200 dinner being like, hey, let's do a couple days from now or let's 209 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,680 do next week. We'll actually be a more 210 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:10,920 positive experience instead of bringing some negativity into 211 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:12,560 their life. And I think that's a challenging 212 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:16,920 thing to decide for yourself and to be honest and be like, I am 213 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,320 not at my best right now. And I, I want to be able to 214 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,840 bring my best friend for myself to my relationships is the best 215 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,000 thing I can do is say no and adjust this or reschedule or set 216 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,120 that boundary. And I think that's been a really 217 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,680 important lesson because I think especially as young adults were 218 00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:32,760 taught that you make commitments, you keep them, you 219 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,560 show up, you, you schedule these things. 220 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:38,840 And I think giving yourself and other people grace and like, you 221 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,680 can take a rain check and you can reschedule. 222 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:43,720 And especially if they're good friends and they they care about 223 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,440 you, they're not going to be completely upset. 224 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,600 The friendship's not going to be derailed over being like, can we 225 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,200 do this tomorrow instead? And so I really love that idea 226 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,280 and that concept and thinking about what value you're actually 227 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,160 providing beyond just showing up for the sake of showing up. 228 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,400 Absolutely. And I also think that the 229 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,200 concept of the sugar jar is not just, yes, we can reschedule 230 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:06,840 when we need to, but hopefully we get to a place where we're 231 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,280 not saying yes to things and needing to reschedule. 232 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,560 We're just saying yes when we have space. 233 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:14,360 And in the beginning we're saying, actually, I already know 234 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,040 I'm going to be busy because I have finals, so let's do next 235 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,280 week. Like in the beginning, we're 236 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,560 checking in with ourselves. Before that comes, things come 237 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:22,960 up and of course and we have to reschedule, but that's the 238 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,080 intention. Yeah, absolutely. 239 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,880 And I think one of the most challenging aspects of mental 240 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,480 health is like knowing what you should do but not knowing how to 241 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,680 do it. And one of the biggest game 242 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:40,040 changers are things that made that more accessible was having 243 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,960 past experiences as evidence that I was able to do that 244 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,720 thing. And so even if it's like saying 245 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,440 no to something where there's not really any stakes, it's like 246 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,440 you get an e-mail and it's like optional event or here's an 247 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,520 after school extra study session. 248 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:56,960 You're not individually being invited, but you're like, I am 249 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,560 so busy and stressed, I'm not going to commit to that. 250 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:02,000 And then the next time when someone's like, hey, I'm going 251 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,720 to this thing. Do you also want to go Bing? 252 00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:06,760 OK, well, I I didn't make the commitment when I was initially 253 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,720 asked that first time, so I know I can say no, it'll be OK. 254 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,880 And having that as past evidence and I think having that physical 255 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,760 metaphor of like, I put that the top on the jar before I can do 256 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,120 it again, it's happened. Everything was OK. 257 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,040 Life continued to go on. I think it's really helpful for 258 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,080 that to be top of mind and for people to remember and have more 259 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,440 trust in themselves as well. Yeah, agreed. 260 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,120 Agreed. I would love to shift gears a 261 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,680 little bit and talk about grief because this is something that 262 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:37,120 you cover in your books and in your own experience. 263 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,280 And I think it's something that people either have no idea how 264 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:45,400 to navigate if they've never experienced a loss before or 265 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:46,920 they are suddenly presented with a loss. 266 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,920 And they are also like, I have never been through this before. 267 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,360 So I don't have the skills. And I think the approach I try 268 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,040 to take with everything mental health wise is why wouldn't you 269 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,920 equip yourself with the skills before you actually need them? 270 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,200 Like why not learn how to breathe through anxiety? 271 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,960 Why not learn how to advocate for yourself or set a boundary 272 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,800 or validate someone else or whatever these skills are so 273 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,360 that when you're in that situation, like I absolutely 274 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,040 need to know how to navigate this, you can and you've at 275 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,080 least practiced the skills, even if it's in a less intense 276 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,440 situation. So can you speak a little bit to 277 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,520 your experience there? And then we'll dive into what 278 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,080 was helpful and what you recommended, all those things. 279 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,120 Yeah, I would. I say I talk about experience I 280 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,360 have with grief and my new book was The Path and it was the loss 281 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,360 of my grandmother and it was in my 20s. 282 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,920 And I would say that grief was the first experience I had where 283 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,920 no matter what tools I had, none of them actually matter. 284 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,280 I mean, being honest, I'm not trying to be like, Oh no, 285 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:46,040 there's no tools. There are so many tools. 286 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,600 I'm going to share in a minute. But I do think it's important 287 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,440 that I share that because there's a misconception 288 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:52,840 sometimes. I know for me it was, it was 289 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,880 like, OK, I've been doing therapy a long time. 290 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,120 I have the tools, I teach this. If grief happens, everything 291 00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:59,600 will be fine. I'll be able to move through it, 292 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,800 and it's like it threw my life apart, like everything just fell 293 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,360 apart. I almost feel like you go 294 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,280 through an experience of having to figure out who you are after 295 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,840 losing someone or losing something that is really, really 296 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,840 important to you. That even though you know 297 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,680 everyone's going to die one day and everything's going to 298 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:20,360 change, it still just shocks you to your core. 299 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,800 And so the biggest piece that I learned in grief is acceptance. 300 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,360 It was really hard for me to, sometimes it's hard to accept 301 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,280 things that you feel like there's no answer to it. 302 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,920 There's no reason. Like she just passed away. 303 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,160 She was older and I was like, well, why? 304 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:42,880 And, you know, trying to find a sense of understanding that can 305 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,320 help me feel, I guess, more comfortable with the 306 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,160 circumstances when really the acceptance was this sucks. 307 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,680 This is the hardest thing that I've ever gone through. 308 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,960 And I really just need to be there for myself as I'm moving 309 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:57,800 through it. And it took me a while. 310 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,160 I, I wanted to power through. I wanted to try to like distract 311 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:06,520 myself with work and really just being present to how hard it was 312 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,400 was really what I needed to do. The second piece is the tools 313 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,520 that helped me be able to be present. 314 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:17,000 The biggest tool was community. I can't stress how much I needed 315 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:20,320 to be around friends, around family, people who were going to 316 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,120 be low stress and no drama. Like people I knew I was going 317 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,200 to have a good time with. People who I knew I could just 318 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:28,040 like we could buy pizza, we could wear pajamas for two days. 319 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,360 Like people that were going to be easeful and easy. 320 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,400 I would say that's the biggest tool that I had in the in the 321 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,560 second one was therapy, knowing that my friends could not always 322 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,440 hold space for the big feelings that I was having. 323 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,680 So having a mental health provider be able to help me 324 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,360 navigate those feelings. I don't think that I would have 325 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,960 been able to make it through grief on our own, and I don't 326 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,560 think that we should be trying to make it through grief on our 327 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:57,440 own. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's really 328 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:02,560 such an interesting concept and something that has really 329 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:07,200 debilitating impacts. There was this whole, I think I 330 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,280 read it in Yohinari's Lost Connections book, and he talks 331 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,720 about the environmental causes of depression and anxiety and 332 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,040 like these different things that lead to us feeling this way. 333 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:22,240 And he was talking about the DSM and how a diagnosis of 334 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,200 depression is in a lot of ways synonymous with grief. 335 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,320 And yet that is sometimes like, OK, if someone has had a recent 336 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:31,440 loss and they may not be depressed, they may just be 337 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:36,640 grieving, and yet it's like the same emotional and physical and 338 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,840 mental experience as this really overwhelming and complicated and 339 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,280 intense experience that is depression. 340 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,840 And there it's also the question of like, okay, how long are you 341 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,280 grieving for before you're like, I need additional support and 342 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:52,840 help. And like you were saying, I, I 343 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,240 need professional support and on what I'm trying and the tools 344 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,840 that I thought would work in this situation aren't working. 345 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:03,760 So what can I do differently? And I did another interview 346 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:07,000 recently where we talk we're talking about how breakups when 347 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:11,079 you're in your 20s is biggest precursor for depression because 348 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:13,960 for a lot of people that's their first loss or. 349 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,359 Grieving. Experience that they have if 350 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,200 they haven't lost a loved one or a family member, that experience 351 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,680 of someone being gone from your life and not being able to move 352 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,640 forward in that. And so it is really debilitating 353 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,680 experience. And like you're saying, you 354 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,280 might think maybe these skills might work, right? 355 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:34,040 I know how to distract myself where I know that in the past 356 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,720 I've pushed through this experience, but grief can really 357 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,160 turn all that on its head and really change that lens and how 358 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,800 you view your mental health and identity, and in a really big 359 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,040 way like you mentioned. Absolutely. 360 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:47,680 And I think it's such a good point that you mentioned in 361 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,480 terms of breakups, you know, we often think about grief as just 362 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,880 death, as grief is loss. In terms of breakups, grief is 363 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,040 failing a class. Sometimes we have grief from 364 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,640 something people may think, oh, that's so simple. 365 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,040 No, for a lot of people, that's a huge thing and it's a huge 366 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:02,800 impact on your life. Depending on what the 367 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,960 circumstances are, grief can be even in the positive grief, like 368 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,880 when you have a child, like it's a beautiful thing, but the loss 369 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,160 of who you were before you had a child or before you had a 370 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,600 husband or before you moved. And so I think when we're 371 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,800 thinking about those losses that we experienced, especially like 372 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,360 when we're in our in our 20s, my first grief was probably a 373 00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:25,200 breakup. The key thing that was hard for 374 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,200 me in that situation. I think I see it in all the, the 375 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,800 different types of clients and workshops I've been in where 376 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,320 people are experiencing grief. The acceptance piece is so hard, 377 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,440 like accepting that it's over, accepting why it ended or 378 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,280 accepting that I have to move on, or accepting that this is 379 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:44,920 what life is going to be like now. 380 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,520 Or getting used to what it's like that because who wants to 381 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,680 imagine life without someone who made them happy at one point, 382 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,560 even if that is no more. And giving ourselves grace and 383 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,440 learning to be gentle with ourselves is really the work 384 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,720 when it comes to grief. Sometimes even beat ourselves up 385 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,600 and we're like, why is it taking me this long? 386 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:05,560 And grief takes as long as it takes. 387 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,560 Hopefully building that community around you that can be 388 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,360 supportive and really understand what you're going through is 389 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,480 going to be key, I think, to getting on the other side of it. 390 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,480 You mentioned acceptance, which is key in so many things in the, 391 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,440 in the mental health context. And I, I really love the message 392 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,640 of your newer book because it's so aligned with DBT and 393 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,360 dialectical behavioral therapy, which is what I went through. 394 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:31,560 And one of the biggest core concepts is your wise mind and 395 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,040 leaning into that wisdom and balancing like the emotional and 396 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,640 the rational, which is acceptance in a lot of ways 397 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,520 because we experience all these emotions when things change. 398 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,600 And then like you mentioned, it was really challenging not to 399 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,320 have an explanation or reason why something happened, but it's 400 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,200 still needing to have that emotional path forward where 401 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,880 you're accepting and moving on without being like, and This is 402 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,600 why this happened. And so it makes sense. 403 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,920 And then we keep going one foot after another. 404 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,680 Can you speak to how wisdom kind of ties into that acceptance 405 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,080 piece? And also anything that was 406 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,520 helpful in your experience? Because it's again, you know 407 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,000 what to do, but you don't know how to do it. 408 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,720 It's like yes, I need to accept this. 409 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,720 The actual acceptance piece can be so, so challenging. 410 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,240 Absolutely. I think the key to the wisdom 411 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,560 that I'm talking about in this book is compassionate honesty. 412 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,840 I call it compassionate honesty because we pretty much know how 413 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,280 to be brutally honest. I think our society at this 414 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,640 point understands clearly how to be brutally honest. 415 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,400 And I think a lot of us even talk to ourselves in that way. 416 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:33,880 Like, Oh my God, I can't believe you did that. 417 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,760 Like, the other day, I was running late for something and I 418 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,040 was like, how could you know? I was like tearing myself apart 419 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,600 inside. But compassion, honestly is the 420 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,240 complete opposite of that. It's, yes, you're running late 421 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,920 and you're human and it's going to be OK. 422 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,800 And, you know, you can apologize. 423 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,120 And it's giving yourself the grace and understanding that 424 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:52,640 things are going to go wrong sometimes. 425 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,280 And I think that's the wisdom that most of us are cultivating. 426 00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:01,320 It's as we grow that we realize, wow, life really does throw some 427 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,800 things our way that I'm not going to be able to be prepared 428 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,440 for in my 20s. I in in our 20s and in our 429 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,080 teens, but sometimes even in our 30s, we think I can prepare for 430 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,320 this and I can kind of build a life that allows me to not 431 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,400 really have a lot of mishaps or things go awry. 432 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:21,600 And that false sense of control, it's hard to surrender to. 433 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,640 It's hard to say actually, I can do the best that I can, but 434 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,960 there's going to be moments in my life where I'm not going to 435 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,240 be able to control anything. So that compassionate honestly 436 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,560 comes in and says, OK, I did the best I could to create this life 437 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,360 for myself that is going this direction. 438 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,720 I'm, you know, maybe I'm going to be a lawyer or maybe I'm 439 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,960 raising a family or maybe I'm building a business and on the 440 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,520 way, maybe I get a diagnosis or I break up with a boyfriend or I 441 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,040 lose my job or something great happens. 442 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,520 I get pregnant with twins. But that wasn't what I was 443 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,800 planning. So now, you know, there's all of 444 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,960 these things that happen. And when we ask ourselves with 445 00:21:55,960 --> 00:22:00,600 curiosity, with gentle curiosity, what do I need? 446 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,160 How can I be present to what's happening in this moment? 447 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:07,560 And in my book, I'm sharing what have I already went through that 448 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,680 reminds me that I can get through this tough moment. 449 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:15,240 I have the tools, I have the lessons. 450 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,440 I have the muscle memory, for lack of a better term, that can 451 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:23,680 remind me that as much as I feel completely dysregulated in this 452 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,880 moment, I actually know how to get through this. 453 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,240 It may not be the same experience, but my body knows 454 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,080 how to be in discomfort and arrive on the other side 455 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,640 stronger, better, clearer, braver, right? 456 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,560 Maybe with a loss of something or with a gain of something 457 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,080 that's new with a change. But I can do this. 458 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,920 And I think that's the wisdom that we're cultivating as we 459 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,400 move through life. It's not necessarily I have the 460 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,480 exact advice to give you, which sometimes we do. 461 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,960 Like if you're buying a house, I could say, oh, exactly, this is 462 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,320 what you need to look for, right? 463 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,240 Because I know, and then I might go through a house buying 464 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,680 process next time and I'm like, Oh my God, this is completely 465 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,240 different. I think that's what life is. 466 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,520 It's like every time we have an experience where we think, I've 467 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,640 gone through this, I should know. 468 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,600 Life shows us actually, you do know within your body, but you 469 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,240 may not know these particular circumstances, but that doesn't 470 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:19,880 mean that you can't make it across. 471 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,240 So I hope that when people think about wisdom, they don't 472 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,280 necessarily attribute it to their age. 473 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,760 They don't attribute it to their education level. 474 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,560 They don't attribute it to where they came from. 475 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,920 They attributed to the past that they are no longer in. 476 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,960 And even with the circumstances where they didn't make, quote UN 477 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,720 quote the right choice, how they still arrived in a better 478 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,760 situation than when they were. Because I do believe for most of 479 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,320 us, even people who had circumstances that were really 480 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,560 tough, like myself, I share in my book, I feel like I'm in a 481 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,480 better place than I was and I couldn't have planned this 482 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,040 possibly for myself. I just had to take one step 483 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,840 after the other and arrive. Yeah, I love this idea that 484 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:04,000 wisdom is really this innate knowing and trusting yourself 485 00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:07,960 even, and it's not tied to a certain accomplishment or an age 486 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,280 that you reach or an experience that you go through. 487 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:16,640 Do you have any exercises or experiences that you could share 488 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,720 that were helpful in your own journey to tap into that wisdom, 489 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,200 to have that trust in yourself and to remind yourself of those 490 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,720 experiences that you could lean on and say, I've, I've done this 491 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,280 before. I've been through this. 492 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,360 Because I think it's again, that idea of like, you know how you 493 00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:33,800 should feel and you know that you should be able to call in 494 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,520 those experiences, which really tapping into that wisdom and 495 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,280 having that trust can be really, really challenging. 496 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,080 It's incredibly challenging. I think even though since we 497 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,560 talked about it a little bit, we can talk about when I got out of 498 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,520 the military. I got out of the military in 499 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,760 2011. I don't know how old you are, 500 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,080 but I would imagine you were younger than me at the time. 501 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,120 We were in a recession, you know, there were no jobs. 502 00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:58,560 We're in the housing crisis, and that was most definitely 503 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:00,320 something that I hadn't been through before. 504 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,280 What was also interesting about that was because it was such a 505 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,240 unique experience. Nobody I knew, even my parent, 506 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,760 no one had been through before. So I think it's an interesting 507 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,040 thing to share because I think even right now, a lot of people 508 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,960 are going through things that no one's been through before. 509 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,520 You get to this particular space where you think, well, nobody 510 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,680 has the experience, so how will I make it through this, right? 511 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,120 And I had to remind myself that. And I think the exercise that we 512 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:29,680 all can kind of take ourselves through is, I may not have 513 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,840 experience for what I'm going through right now, but I know 514 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,160 I've had a situation in which I was starting from scratch, 515 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,280 whether it was college, whether it was tryouts for a team, 516 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,080 whether whatever it is. I've had a moment where I 517 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,480 arrived someplace and I had no reference point for what I was 518 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,440 going to be doing. But I was able to learn and I 519 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,480 was able to curate a way of feeling comfortable enough to 520 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,360 move forward. And I like to check in with 521 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,560 myself and ask myself in those moments, like, OK, I know that 522 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,240 I'm starting again. I know I don't know what I need 523 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,200 to do. Who do I need? 524 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,400 What do I need and how can I give it to myself? 525 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,560 Who do I need? Is there someone that I've 526 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,200 connected with, a friend, a coach, you know, whoever that I 527 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,720 can talk to that can help me point me in the right direction? 528 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,800 I think this is important so that we remember I don't have to 529 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,440 do it alone. What do I need for the next 530 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,400 step? Not for five years down the 531 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,320 line. I think 5 year plans are great, 532 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,640 but I think a lot of us get so caught up in them that we kind 533 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,840 of limit ourselves from being able to have things derail. 534 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,720 So what do I need right now to get to the next step? 535 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:37,360 And how can I allow myself, while I'm asking myself these 536 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:40,280 questions and while I'm at this place of change and starting 537 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:45,040 fresh, to be a beginner again and not have to know all of the 538 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,760 answers? I think it's incredibly 539 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,360 important, everything that I'm sharing in terms of like a 540 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:53,240 checklist or rules or anything like that for myself as a 541 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,040 recovering perfectionist. Trust me, guys, like I would 542 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,320 love to have the ABC step, but this was the closest that I can 543 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,520 find because in life, there really is no checklist. 544 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,440 And having questions that I can always ask myself that I can 545 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,680 kind of memorize is the checklist I've created in 546 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,480 moments where I know I'm uncomfortable because I'm going 547 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,720 to have to surrender to the fact that I have no idea what's about 548 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,600 to happen here. And it did work out in terms of 549 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,840 me being able to figure out what to do next and find a job and 550 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,360 get myself situated. But it took years for me to get 551 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:25,960 settled. And I think that's the last 552 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,760 piece that I'll share around the tools, the patience to know that 553 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,440 it may not be resolved when you want it to be. 554 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,000 Like, it's really hard to let go and allow things to unfold when 555 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,160 you're young. A lot of times you have parents 556 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,400 or people putting you on a direct path like, oh, you're 557 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,680 going to be in college for this amount of time, you've graduated 558 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,600 this time, and then you after that, it's off to the races. 559 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,120 And you kind of just have to allow life to be what it is. 560 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:56,400 And yes, you can take action and have direction and drive, but it 561 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,280 doesn't mean that you'll be able to control every aspect of your 562 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,320 life. And so that's the render piece 563 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,480 that letting go, that patience is something that I think we 564 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,560 have to cultivate as well. It's incredibly hard, and I 565 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,760 can't share that. It gets easier. 566 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,000 I just think that it gets more familiar and just like the 567 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,280 wisdom I'm talking about, you know? 568 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,120 Oh, I'm just in one of those zones again. 569 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:18,520 OK, I got this. You know what I mean? 570 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:24,040 Yeah, going back to the aspect of compassion that's so integral 571 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,600 to this wisdom and this approach that you're taking and giving 572 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,000 yourself more grace. One thing that you've shared 573 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,400 that was really helpful in your journeys, affirmations, which I 574 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,800 think is something that a lot of people can relate to that is 575 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,960 similar to asking yourself those questions, but these mantras and 576 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,960 things that you have on repeat to continue on that path and 577 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,440 give yourself more grace and support in those new foreign 578 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,720 experiences. We were like, I, I don't know 579 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,160 exactly what the next step will be. 580 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,880 I can't plan this all out. Can you speak a little bit to 581 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,880 that and, and how that was helpful and how you still use 582 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,640 affirmations today, whether it's at a different stage of your 583 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,120 journey in addition to like the early days of healing and 584 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,840 navigating and working through those stronger emotions? 585 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,520 Oh my goodness, yes. I would say I use affirmations 586 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,320 more today than I did before just because I think I was 587 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,960 harder on myself before and was less likely to pull toward 588 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,840 affirmations. I was more likely to be like, 589 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,160 what do I need to do? Affirmations changed my life 590 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,840 because when I'm in the middle of a crisis or some change or 591 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,360 discomfort that I don't know what to do, I can just 592 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,200 automatically pull to, but I have everything that I need and 593 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,200 I'm going to make it and everything's going to be OK. 594 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,040 And how do I know everything? You know, like that other voice 595 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,280 might say, how do you know everything's going to be OK? 596 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,120 There's like 100 voices that play inside of us sometimes that 597 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,440 sound just like us and sound like they're literally telling 598 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,600 the truth. And then I'll counter it and say 599 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,000 I know it because blah blah blah. 600 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,440 So I'm saying that to say that sometimes my affirmations will 601 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,840 help me lead to the questions that I was just sharing because 602 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:01,400 that alternate voice will pop up with its shame or it's guilt or 603 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,680 it's fear. And then it leads me to, well, I 604 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,320 have the evidence that I did this before. 605 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,480 So I know I can do this. I've got, I've got this. 606 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,200 I also just want to share that in moments where affirmations 607 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,720 may not be working because a lot of people will say to me, I did 608 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,920 the affirmations, I still feel terrible. 609 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,000 The phone, a friend is my favorite. 610 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,960 Like I will phone a friend when I do not believe in myself who 611 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,680 will remind me of, you know how badass I am of how I, you know, 612 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,560 I can make it. And I think that is more 613 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,080 important sometimes in those moments of crisis, especially to 614 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,800 have someone who can remind you. But I have affirmations on my 615 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,320 mirror. I have affirmations on my 616 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,320 computer. I have affirmations on my phone 617 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,720 and my notes app. I keep them everywhere so that 618 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,760 even if I'm in a moment where I can't remember that I can go to 619 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,520 them easily. And I share affirmations all the 620 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:53,720 time on Instagram too. And I think if you are someone 621 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,320 who's looking to create more positivity in your life, 622 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,160 following myself, following people like me or accounts like 623 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,800 me, that when you wake up in the morning, if you do find yourself 624 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,920 on social media first thing or around the first time that 625 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,120 you're starting your day, at least you're getting something 626 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,520 positive in you that you can use and carry with you. 627 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:16,320 And I even save them as my screensaver on my phone as well. 628 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,680 Yeah, no, I love that. And I think that's one of the 629 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,560 biggest things I'm always repeating because that's one of 630 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,400 the biggest questions especially parents have. 631 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,640 It's like, how does social media fit into the equation of Gen. 632 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,760 Z mental health? And doesn't it make things 633 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,800 worse? And is it even possible for it 634 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,280 to be a positive interaction? And I think like you're saying, 635 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,680 you have so much power to be a critical consumer and make that 636 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,160 a positive space. And like I would say mainstream 637 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,000 score page is Taylor Swift and dogs. 638 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,000 And I love it. It's great. 639 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,640 It's all positive things. Nothing negative is happening on 640 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,920 there. And so if you can be intentional 641 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,840 and add those people to your following list and just listen 642 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,640 to what those emotions are saying and anytime something 643 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,760 makes you laugh or smile, sprinkling those things in 644 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,880 because it is a significant part of our daily routine. 645 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,960 And like you're saying, when you wake up, if you can have those 646 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,720 more positive aspects and you don't have to do the work of 647 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,240 seeking them out, they're coming to you, which I think is really 648 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,000 incredible and important. And I really loved what you said 649 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,120 about how people come to you and say, what did the affirmations 650 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,720 and nothing worked or nothing changed. 651 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,960 And I think this is such an interesting aspect of mental 652 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,400 health. Or if you don't have that self 653 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,400 compassion and that, I don't even know if positive is the 654 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,560 right way to describe it. But that like more supportive 655 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,360 and giving yourself more grace and speaking to yourself in a 656 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,520 kinder way. If you don't have that, you'll 657 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:35,320 never get to that outcome of the mental health that you want. 658 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,800 And just changing the way you speak to yourself isn't going to 659 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,920 get you there either. But it's completely necessary to 660 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,520 have those kind of interactions with yourself and give yourself 661 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,240 grace and give yourself that support to get to the other side 662 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,240 of things because it is such an integral part of mental health 663 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,920 that the behavioral changes are also so important. 664 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:54,720 And so that's why I love that you mentioned these other 665 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,080 aspects like community and leaning on others for support 666 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,000 and then looking back on those past experiences to really 667 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,920 reinforce that aspect of resilience. 668 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,640 But I, I completely agree that that affirmation piece is really 669 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,160 important and huge, and especially in the maintenance 670 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,200 phase of things when you're continuing to just maintain your 671 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,600 mental health where it's AT and continue to have that dialogue 672 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,280 of grace and kindness and support with yourself. 673 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:21,960 Absolutely. And I think, you know, if you're 674 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:23,720 listening to this and affirmations may not have worked 675 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,800 for you in the past, say to yourself, OK, I'm saying the 676 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,040 affirmations and they're not working, So what do I need? 677 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,400 Allow yourself to need something else. 678 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,000 We think like, oh, affirmations were supposed to be it. 679 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,160 I was supposed to do the affirmations and everything was 680 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,360 supposed to be perfect. Allow there to be other options 681 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:41,760 for you. OK, Affirmations didn't work. 682 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,080 I'll call a friend. A friend didn't work or they're 683 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,440 not available. I'll journal. 684 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,640 Journaling is not available. I'm going to go for a walk. 685 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,280 I'm going to play with my dog. Like, allow yourself to be 686 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,840 curious about what you need and how cool it is to be able to 687 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,080 just give yourself what you need and not have to force yourself 688 00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,920 to do something that's not working in that moment. 689 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,640 Absolutely. If someone is listening, that is 690 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,440 really struggling, they're going through a loss, they're 691 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,120 grieving, they're they're struggling to find that wisdom 692 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,000 in their life. They're not succeeding in these 693 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,880 boundaries that they want to set or they're really just at a low 694 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,400 point. And they really relate to these 695 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,679 aspects of your story that you you mentioned in this 696 00:34:20,679 --> 00:34:22,679 conversation. And what would your advice be to 697 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,960 them? What can they apply today in 698 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,719 their life to kind of begin that journey which never ends, but 699 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,400 it's especially challenging when we're in those low points? 700 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:33,360 Yeah. The first thing that I would say 701 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,960 is what I wish I had known about then was a grief support group. 702 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,480 There's so many grief support groups now where people are 703 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,400 meeting up and talking about it. And it's so amazing to be in a 704 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,320 room full of people who are grieving when you're grieving 705 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,679 because you don't have to pretend, you don't have to say 706 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:52,120 everything's OK. And I think as much as we need 707 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,719 community who makes us feel great, we also need communities 708 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,760 where we don't have to pretend everything's OK. 709 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,880 So that's the first thing that I would say to someone who's 710 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,680 grieving right now and resonates with this. 711 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,520 And the other thing that I would say that I wish someone had said 712 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,760 to me is nothing's wrong. I had never seen anyone grieve 713 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,360 in the way that I felt where I, you know, for a while I felt 714 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,440 like I just can't even get out of bed. 715 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,040 Like, I can't, I don't want to do anything. 716 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,000 I'm fine with being here all day. 717 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,720 And my husband was really good with this. 718 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:24,880 But, you know, having someone say like, this is OK. 719 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,840 And not necessarily that this is normal, but your experience of 720 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,120 grief is normal and you don't have to be grieving in the way 721 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:33,560 someone else is. You know, sometimes people 722 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,760 grieve and they just, they're back to work and everything is 723 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,600 fine. And I, we don't actually know 724 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,840 what they're fine inside. We just see what they're 725 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,040 portraying to us. And so being really careful 726 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,040 about what we take in and our comparison, you know, this is 727 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,400 the other side of social media. We may see somebody on social 728 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,760 media who appears to have everything going for them and 729 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:53,080 everything's great, even though they just had a loss. 730 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,040 And we start to compare ourselves. 731 00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,640 Really allow yourself to just be where you are and take it day by 732 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,520 day because I feel like grief makes you more present than 733 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:03,400 anything else. You don't. 734 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,640 You don't have any other option than to take it day by day. 735 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,080 So allow yourself to be in that slow space, and the last thing 736 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:10,320 I'll say I know is the last thing before. 737 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:11,680 Like, you know, it's. Amazing. 738 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:16,680 You will get out of this. There will be a moment where you 739 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,320 think about this person or this experience and you think, I 740 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,920 cannot believe that I'm at the place where I'm at now where I 741 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,560 don't feel like how I felt when I think about this anymore. 742 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,120 And there's grief in that. You even feel like, Oh my God, I 743 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,920 don't feel sad anymore. And we have these moments of 744 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,240 reassuring ourselves that I still miss them. 745 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:41,600 I still love them or good riddance. 746 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,680 But I'm, I still can't believe I'm where I'm at. 747 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,600 And the wisdom is in all of that. 748 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:51,200 I think it's such an exciting moment when you realize that 749 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:56,200 you're on the other side of it, but also allow yourself to go 750 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,680 back there when those moments come up. 751 00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,680 Because I feel like even when you get on the other side of 752 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,120 grief, there's still those moments where it reminds you of 753 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,760 how hard it was the first time. I love that. 754 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,000 Well, this was so powerful and I know it's going to help so many 755 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,520 people. If people want to buy both your 756 00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,000 books or listen to your podcast or follow along on Instagram, 757 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,840 where can they do that? Yeah, so Wisdom of the Path is 758 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,800 my new book. This book is a journey of love 759 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,400 and also sharing really tough stories like grief that I've 760 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,240 been through, but the other side of it and how we can live in our 761 00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:31,880 peace. So you can find that anywhere 762 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,200 books are sold. Amazon, Target, Barnes and 763 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,360 Noble, and all the indie bookstores too. 764 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,760 The Sugar Jar is a book that is great for boundaries. 765 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,080 So if you're looking to refresh or start your healing journey, 766 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:44,520 that's the perfect book to start with. 767 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,600 And it's also available anywhere books are sold. 768 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,840 And you can follow along with my affirmations and my prompts and 769 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,880 questions on Instagram. Yasmin Cheyenne. 770 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,080 Thank you so much, this was absolutely incredible. 771 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:58,840 Thank you so much.