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Hey guys, welcome back to. 
Nevertheless, she persisted a 

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podcast with Sadie 7. 
Today, I'm here with my dad 

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again, and we're going to talk a
bit about what it's like, as a 

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parent to have a daughter or 
child and treatment what we hope

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for in the future at home, and 
all of that. 

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So, we've talked a good picture.
Yes, which is a program that was

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an intensive, residential 
therapy booty, their 

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dialectical, behavioral therapy.
And so, this is a program that 

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was recommended To Us by our 
local medical personnel and your

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care providers. 
Yes. 

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And we didn't know anything 
about this at all. 

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No idea did a lot of research 
online and many that people 

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suggested that we consider this 
and thankfully we were able to 

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make the connection with the 
ReUse and it's just outside of 

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Boston and Belmont. 
And its affiliated with McLean, 

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Hospital, which focuses on 
mental health issues. 

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And it's also staffed by a bunch
of Harvard Medical School 

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Personnel, so I can't speak 
highly enough about it. 

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Yeah, they are miracle workers 
and truly view, but but I'd say 

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that, you know, that's pretty 
important that I give context as

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to what I say, Boston. 
What am I referring to finish? 

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Drop me off on the streets at 
the Boston University? 

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Yeah, yeah. 
I think so. 

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So as a parent, at three East, 
you talked a bit about the 

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parent group, we did family 
therapy sessions. 

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And then you also had a lot of 
interactions with Miriam my 

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personal therapist, as well as 
different. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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So what was your experience as a
parent? 

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Well, your child was at three 
days. 

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Well, at first there's you don't
you don't have any experience 

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whatsoever. 
So my first experience was 

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complete ignorance in that we 
hopped on a plane, you and your 

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mom and I and we flew to Boston 
and we go and have this sort of 

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interview process. 
Hopefully get you guys kicked 

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you out of the room, he just out
of the room. 

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Then they said that you weren't 
written interested in attending 

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and such a speed bump, travel, 
cross-country thinking that you 

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were going to get started there.
And yeah you decided that I 

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didn't want if you want to. 
So that was a speed bump and 

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that's okay. 
We roll with it and thankfully 

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it turned out a couple of days 
later, it worked out but but 

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that's a fun story. 
But setting that aside I would 

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say that, you know I didn't have
any context or really sort of 

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any Sort of I didn't know what 
to do. 

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So good news is we quickly 
learned in terms of what it was 

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going to be like being a parent.
Yeah. 

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As part of three East, and what 
our role was and what your role 

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was and the good news is they 
were very upfront. 

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The team there was very upfront 
about listen this is as much 

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about you and your wife working 
hard and kind of developing the 

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skills that you need as a parent
just as much as it is about 

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Sadie and her working on the 
things that she needs to. 

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And I think it was interesting 
that the geography was 

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challenging because we are 
across the country. 

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However, I'm glad that basically
every weekend, one of your mom 

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or dad would actually fly across
the country to spend, as you 

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said the weekend with you. 
In addition to the Monday 

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morning parent, meetings and I'm
just so thankful. 

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We were able to do that. 
I know that there's kind of most

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people would not have been able 
to pull that off. 

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Yeah, probably thankful that we 
may as well blessed to be able 

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to do that because I think you 
appreciate it very much. 

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Much responded to that time. 
I think it was a big portion of 

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the success. 
How much time we got to spend 

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together and practice the skills
we have learned and have those 

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trial runs before I went home. 
True true. 

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Yeah. 
I know. 

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And to family therapy 
face-to-face. 

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I think that was a really big 
part portion. 

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I agree. 
I agree. 

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And it was, you know, during 
that 14 week, period. 

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We went from no communication 
with each other or almost, no 

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communication with each other, 
and certainly not genuine and 

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authentic, and deep to you being
Friendly generous in giving of 

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how you were feeling and how you
were suffering and how much you 

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were suffering and I hope in 
return. 

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We were being more open 
communicators as well. 

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Definitely. 
And that was, you know, really 

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credit 23 East and what they 
were trying to do both with you,

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but also with us, I got so much 
out of those monday-morning 

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parent meetings that they would 
conduct from eight in the 

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morning until 11:00 11:30 in the
morning. 

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And I know that Jamie did as 
well. 

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And so, and as you said, Ed 
following that with in-person 

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family therapy meetings, where 
we are all together combined 

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with the one-on-one time that we
got over the weekend where there

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was no nothing got in the way of
just us being parents and then 

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you being a kid. 
Yeah. 

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And that was, that was my own 
therapy to candidly. 

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Just you and I walking the 
streets of Boston, I'm going to 

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grab a lunch and I know you and 
Mommy would do it on the office 

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as well. 
So and sometimes thankfully, we 

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were They able to travel across 
the country, to be with you 

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together. 
Yeah. 

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So but I was very, very, very 
happy with how that worked out 

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in terms of this 14 weeks. 
Yeah, I agree. 

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What was it, like being a parent
and still being a parent on at 

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the program provided for a 
therapeutic boarding school? 

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So so your experience as a 
parent at a therapeutic boarding

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school. 
My experience is a parent, a bit

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different like not as intensive.
I don't see you every End. 

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Yeah. 
What's different in that? 

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The therapeutic boarding school 
has a very different protocol 

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versus the residential 
intensive. 

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Increased briefs wants the 
parents to be there every 

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weekend, once the parents to be 
on campus on every Monday 

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morning. 
Very much wants this intensive 

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as much as possible interaction 
to basically, try and push the 

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push Stanley, where's the 
family? 

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And to uncover things that come 
up, like conflict and tension 

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and anxiety. 
Any moments in this any other. 

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So that was their protocol and 
that was their approach. 

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Where's the therapeutic boarding
school? 

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In some ways was the 180 
opposite where had a group we 

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went from having, you know, 
three days out of seven seeing 

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you or two and a half days out 
of seven. 

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Seen you to literally the next 
week when we took you to 

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Montana, they said they didn't 
want to see us for three months.

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Yeah, that's so that was very. 
Yeah, we barely said goodbye and

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I was like, wait, what? 
And that was that was really 

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hard for us. 
Because while it was very 

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difficult to enroll you in three
years, which was across the 

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country. 
There was the comfort knowing 

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that I will see you in five 
days. 

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I can call you everyday, call us
whenever you want it, and we 

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could call you. 
And there's something very 

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comforting about that versus at 
this. 

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Therapeutic boarding school in 
Montana. 

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It was, literally we'd really 
it's important that we not hear 

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or see from you for a long time.
Yeah, opinion. 

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Because it was important for 
your Be to stand on your own two

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feet and not be overly reliant 
on us and for allow you time to 

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look inward as opposed to in 
some ways you could say be 

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distracted by your kind of 
laying things off on your mom. 

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And I and so. 
And again, I think a lot of 

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different approaches can work in
the reality is that when you 

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were in threes, that was by many
ways, a crisis mode. 

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And so you have to take a 
certain very acute care. 

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Very cute. 
Whereas, the Third, Repeated 

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warnings will clearly is a huge 
step down in that you're sort 

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of. 
If it's a big step forward in 

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terms of, on the way to kind of 
great mental health and fitness.

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So, but they're different. 
And so, as a parent about 

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therapeutic, boarding school 
student, it's just, you have to 

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be prepared for a very different
approach, including the level of

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interaction and availability 
that you get with your child. 

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And so, for us, that was 
probably one of our biggest 

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struggles was that we went from,
as you said, you know, 

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tremendous amount of That's very
open and amazing and exciting. 

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Because we just even a step down
from where we were before. 

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I was kind of surprising not to 
see you guys every day not be 

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able to talk to you in person. 
And then to go from, I get to 

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see you two and a half days out 
of seven. 

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Call you every day to see you in
three months. 

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Yeah, you know, by the way, the 
heels of that you're going to 

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have Google doc time interaction
rather than a phone call and 

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you'll definitely have a phone 
call for social reasons. 

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But it's once a week and then it
said and short and And then 

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obviously family therapy, which 
was wonderful because it was at 

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least through FaceTime, so you'd
be able to get that visual, but 

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very limited, very limited. 
Now, on the positive, I think it

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really put you in an 
uncomfortable position of having

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to look Inward and to make sure 
that your foundation was strong 

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regardless of your mom and dad, 
which I think is an incredible, 

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incredibly important life lesson
and will serve you the rest of 

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your life. 
Yeah. 

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And And this is where parents 
and think despite their best 

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intentions, don't give their 
kids enough space to be able to 

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develop those foundations. 
And so, I'm certainly holds from

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therapist to therapist who do 
the same thing. 

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They both practice DVT that's 
what they preach their 

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approaches can be so different 
it so varying levels of 

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Effectiveness for different 
people. 

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Yeah yeah so that's definitely 
like as a friend and as an 

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outsider you definitely like 
learn that there's like a ton 

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out there and that any time that
you feel like you've reached a 

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dead end and there's, you know, 
not to sound cliché. 

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But like no more hope, you know,
like there's always another 

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solution or something you can at
least attempt and try, that's 

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could give you the results you 
want. 

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So that's what I kind of felt 
like was happening. 

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Freshman year, was this kind of 
like difficulty with knowing how

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to deal with it and freshman. 
Your there were also times I 

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definitely made mistakes as your
friend in terms of like not 

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reaching out when I should have 
or you know, there were times 

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when I felt like I could have 
talked with you more and I 

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didn't I think, as a frantic 
fault for any. 

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No, absolutely, absolutely. 
And I think that's part of it 

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too. 
Is like French is not like 

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stealing shit people. 
Yes, I have different degrees of

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like regret around things but 
there's not exactly. 

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That's the thing is to get to 
his regret. 

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Yeah. 
Which is like, you know, I'm 

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lucky to be in a place where I 
don't have regrets about what 

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I've done in the past and for 
example, there's one time I 

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remember when you were like, oh 
I literally have the suicide 

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note and I like didn't do 
anything because I remember, she

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talked to me and she'd be like, 
oh yeah, like I'm talk to my 

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therapist about it. 
So I was kind of like, Like at 

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that point, I was like, oh like 
she's talked to a therapist like

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what more can I do? 
When in that situation, I 

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probably should have been more 
forward and more assertive but I

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think that's part of it too. 
Is like navigating, the system 

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is so hard and figuring out how 
to do it is part of it. 

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So, I think that while some of 
those mistakes can be like 

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problematic, I think they as a 
friend, it was necessary for me 

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to figure out how best to 
navigate the resources I had and

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also how to do it in a way that 
was actually helpful to Sadie 

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because sometimes it would be 
like I could do something, but 

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that, in the end might not be 
helpful to you. 

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That could honestly harm you 
more than more than help. 

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So that's like, always a 
challenge. 

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Always a, always a struggle. 
But yeah. 

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What else? 
I'm? 

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So you saw me at that point 
freshman year. 

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Yeah. 
You're so in the know reach out 

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to a lot while I was in Boston 
at McLain and then in Montana my

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God, yeah, I would call you back
a single week and phone combos. 

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We had a Google doc, we did. 
We had a Google doc. 

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I um, so yeah, McClane, I might 
as one of the people that I was 

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okay to call because that was a 
very healthy friendship and so 

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every color every week and talk 
to her, give her the update, 

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complain about like, I heard all
about the weather, which, of 

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course, we don't experience here
in California because we have 

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the same weather all year round.
But it's snowing pretty much 

227
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:14,100
snow heard about brunches. 
Heard about altars of 

228
00:12:14,100 --> 00:12:15,600
activities. 
That was kind of fun. 

229
00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:20,000
All your outings. 
Yeah and then I started to get 

230
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,000
too dark to you more and Montana
after probably like six months 

231
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,100
it took a really long time for 
them to let me get to talk to 

232
00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:28,300
you. 
And that is all that. 

233
00:12:28,300 --> 00:12:30,200
That was probably. 
The thing I felt most was that 

234
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,300
time. 
Yeah, and that was grossly, a 

235
00:12:32,300 --> 00:12:34,400
regular that they even let Talk 
to you at all. 

236
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:39,200
Yeah. 
So seeing that person that you 

237
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,500
saw leave for treatment freshman
year and then the interactions 

238
00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:45,900
that we had later when I would 
come and visit or even after I 

239
00:12:45,900 --> 00:12:47,800
came home, do you notice a 
change? 

240
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,400
Do you think it was different? 
Yeah, I think the probably the 

241
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,800
biggest thing I noticed is like 
you were excited about things 

242
00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:58,800
and it sounds so base and like 
oh like that doesn't mean 

243
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,100
anything but like there was 
literally point. 

244
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:04,600
I remember when you didn't seem 
excited Do anything about 

245
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,300
anything? 
You would wake up and you just 

246
00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:08,000
we would talk but you wouldn't 
you weren't excited about 

247
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,700
anything and it was like 
heartbreaking because it's like,

248
00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:14,100
there's nothing I can do to make
you feel like you want to wake 

249
00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:15,500
up and do something the next 
day. 

250
00:13:15,700 --> 00:13:18,900
But at the same time, I have to 
watch you sit here and like feel

251
00:13:18,900 --> 00:13:22,400
like there's nothing you can do.
And feel my God, that was 

252
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:23,600
freaking me out. 
Are you kidding me? 

253
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,000
21 minutes or not recording? 
Yeah. 

254
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,300
So I think that was like, seeing
you be excited about stuff being

255
00:13:28,300 --> 00:13:31,600
excited about going places and 
doing things and like, you know,

256
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,600
snowboarding and like stuff 
where you You were engaging your

257
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,300
mind and your body and like you 
were excited to do it like you 

258
00:13:37,300 --> 00:13:39,500
weren't forced to do it. 
You weren't like doing it 

259
00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:41,800
because you like had to do it to
seem normal or anything. 

260
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,600
It was just like you wanted to 
do it and you enjoy it. 

261
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:46,100
That was like, probably the 
biggest thing. 

262
00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:51,400
And then I guess I mean I think 
our conversation has changed a 

263
00:13:51,408 --> 00:13:52,900
lot. 
After you came back or 

264
00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:58,600
conversations before I at least 
always felt like the check-in 

265
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,800
was super important and like we 
always have to talk about how 

266
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,500
you were feeling and it was like
almost the core of what we 

267
00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:06,900
talked about. 
And when you came back it was 

268
00:14:06,900 --> 00:14:11,400
almost like you, you have the 
self-awareness like we don't 

269
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,000
have to talk about it. 
You just knew and you were able 

270
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,400
to like you. 
Like if you were in a spot where

271
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,200
you weren't feeling good, you 
knew what to do next. 

272
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:20,700
It wasn't like I didn't Feel 
like we were just talking, not 

273
00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:22,300
get anywhere. 
It was like, you knew what you 

274
00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:27,400
had to do next to kind of feel 
better or like you know, maybe 

275
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,400
is relax your mind or like take 
a nap or whatever. 

276
00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,800
So that was like, another thing.
It's like a lot of the times 

277
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,300
before I think we would talk a 
lot and I would feel like we 

278
00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:37,700
were getting somewhere and then 
it would feel like you still 

279
00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:39,400
felt the exact same way you did.
When we started the 

280
00:14:39,408 --> 00:14:41,600
conversation, which, of course, 
is, you know, if that's just how

281
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,700
it is, when you have, you know, 
depression and anxiety. 

282
00:14:43,700 --> 00:14:46,200
It's you can't just like snap 
out of it, you know, like you're

283
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,800
in the spot and you can talk 
about everything, but it won't 

284
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,200
necessarily help. 
Um, so that was like, that was 

285
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:54,500
hard. 
That was really hard. 

286
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,400
I think on both of us hard for 
me just because I felt like I 

287
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,600
didn't know what to do and hard 
for you. 

288
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,300
Obviously for very clear reasons
because he's a person going 

289
00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:04,100
through, but it was like hard. 
Yeah. 

290
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,900
And coming back, I think it 
wasn't like that. 

291
00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:10,200
It just all of that, that made 
it that any tension that there 

292
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,100
was because of that was gone. 
Like, it was just so if so felt 

293
00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:19,200
so natural and it felt like, you
know, just felt normal in a way 

294
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:20,200
that it had to be. 
For. 

295
00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:26,200
So as a friend with to someone 
who is struggling or who is 

296
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,900
going through that, obviously, 
it's very important to not take 

297
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:32,300
on the struggles that they're 
going through. 

298
00:15:32,300 --> 00:15:35,300
I feel like, yeah, there was a 
lot of, as we said, we both had 

299
00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:37,000
other friends who are going 
through things, I know for me, 

300
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,600
especially, I would take on 
their struggles and feel like I 

301
00:15:41,608 --> 00:15:46,800
needed to manage it and Their 
depression just fed, my just 

302
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,400
grew, and grew and grew. 
So, it was very important to. 

303
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,400
It's very important, separate 
yourself? 

304
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,000
Oh, I don't know. 
I was going with this. 

305
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,200
Yeah, like separate yourself 
like, yeah. 

306
00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:04,800
How are you effectively? 
Do you think you are effectively

307
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,000
able to do that? 
I think? 

308
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,900
Yeah, I think to some extent 
like I was yeah, like I had a 

309
00:16:09,908 --> 00:16:13,300
support system of my own. 
So for example, my mom was is 

310
00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:16,100
was and is My main support 
system. 

311
00:16:16,100 --> 00:16:17,900
In that any time, I felt like I 
was struggling or didn't know 

312
00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:21,200
what to do. 
I could go to her and when it 

313
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,600
came to supporting Sadie both as
a friend and also just to 

314
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,600
someone dealing with depression,
it was like, if I felt like, I 

315
00:16:26,608 --> 00:16:28,300
didn't know what to do. 
I knew I had someone I could 

316
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:31,900
talk to about it, who I knew 
would keep it confidential. 

317
00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:34,400
And who would give me honest 
feedback. 

318
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,500
Okay. 
Anyways, so important to not 

319
00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:39,900
internalize other people's 
feelings. 

320
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,200
What other advice you have for 
listeners, who are trying to 

321
00:16:43,208 --> 00:16:45,300
support someone who Is 
struggling with depression 

322
00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:48,700
anxiety, any of that. 
Number one is like, don't be 

323
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:51,200
afraid to like, ask for help. 
Because at least for me, like, I

324
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:52,900
was a student. 
I was like a youngster. 

325
00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:56,700
I was just a young blooming 
youthful. 

326
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,700
Teenager at the time border. 
Yeah. 

327
00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:04,099
At that time, that I was friends
with Sadie when we started being

328
00:17:04,099 --> 00:17:06,099
friends. 
So the important thing is to 

329
00:17:06,099 --> 00:17:09,500
remember like this is not a, 
it's not your burden, right? 

330
00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:14,700
Like very important and I think 
that also can Come really 

331
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:17,099
problematic and friendships to 
as you begin to see this as a 

332
00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:21,000
burden, then it'd be like if it 
becomes something that you feel 

333
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,900
is a burden, you won't want to 
spend time with this person 

334
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:25,500
anymore. 
And I the thought of that like 

335
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:28,400
terrified me, so I knew that 
like it was important at that 

336
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,200
time for me to prioritize our 
friendship over like anything 

337
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,800
else that was going on so that 
it wouldn't pervade and kind of 

338
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,400
like, you know, in fact, 
everything that happened with 

339
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:43,400
between us as friends, part of 
it is like knowing that it's 

340
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,100
okay to reach out. 
For additional help from an 

341
00:17:45,108 --> 00:17:47,000
adult and like not being afraid 
to do that. 

342
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,700
And knowing that, even if, like,
I knew, if I did it, like Sadie,

343
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:52,000
might be mad at me now because 
she didn't want me to do that, 

344
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,400
but I know that in the long 
term, it's beneficial and that 

345
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,000
it's necessary and that I 
couldn't do it on my own, so 

346
00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,300
that's part of it. 
And then, the other part of it 

347
00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:02,500
is having your own support 
system and, you know, making 

348
00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:05,500
sure that you're not getting 
stressed out by this or staying 

349
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:08,600
up late or whatever it is 
because of it. 

350
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,000
Because then it again, it'll be 
harder to spend time with that 

351
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,900
person, which is It's not not 
ever worth it and then also it 

352
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:20,000
becomes it could you know, that 
burden could become too much on 

353
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,100
you and so yeah part of not 
internalizing, it is. 

354
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:28,700
Yeah. 
Is that Sweet. 

355
00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:33,100
I'm what do you wish you'd done 
differently? 

356
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,600
I wish I'd been. 
I'd wish I'd been more explicit.

357
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,300
When you with you when we 
talked. 

358
00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:42,200
I think a lot of the time I was 
afraid to say the word 

359
00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:46,400
depression, or say the word 
anxiety or talk about suicidal 

360
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,700
ideation. 
I was too scared of those words 

361
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,000
and I think it made our 
communication a lot blurrier and

362
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,300
a lot of fog year and it was 
harder for me sometimes to know 

363
00:18:56,300 --> 00:18:58,500
what you were really feeling and
probably hard for you to know 

364
00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:00,600
that I was hearing you and 
understanding you because I 

365
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:01,800
couldn't verbalize it. 
It. 

366
00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:05,200
So I was too afraid. 
So I guess like I was so scary. 

367
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,100
There's a lot of weight to those
words. 

368
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,300
They mean a lot and I don't 
experience it so I can't know 

369
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,700
what that weight is. 
And so for me, it was like, if I

370
00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:16,500
say this word am IA, am I using 
it correctly? 

371
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:18,400
Let Her Cry. 
Like, It's both a medical word 

372
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,600
and like a like an this again 
goes back to what I was saying 

373
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,800
about words that are used today 
in society liberalization. 

374
00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:26,600
That lose weight. 
Like they're. 

375
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,900
So for a while, triggered 
trigger, big white shoes were 

376
00:19:29,900 --> 00:19:31,300
used to like coming UPS all the 
time. 

377
00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:33,200
Yeah. 
Which completely invalidates 

378
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,200
people experiencing 
post-traumatic stress disorder. 

379
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:36,200
Right? 
Who actually have triggers. 

380
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,200
Yeah, we're like I'm so 
depressed or this makes me 

381
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,100
suicidal or my God. 
I have so much anxiety. 

382
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,000
Yeah. 
Yo, myself I think was a big one

383
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,900
too because KMS was used a lot 
and so it's honestly still is 

384
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:47,700
used a lot. 
Yeah. 

385
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:49,400
So it's a lot of those dreams 
that just get used 

386
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,300
interchangeably and lose weight 
and can be very invalidating. 

387
00:19:52,300 --> 00:19:56,600
So especially when being serious
and using them in a genuine way,

388
00:19:57,100 --> 00:20:02,300
you don't ever want to, It's 
hard because you see those use 

389
00:20:02,300 --> 00:20:05,600
so lightly and yeah and it makes
them lose their weight. 

390
00:20:05,700 --> 00:20:08,800
Yeah. 
So to assign that to things when

391
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,000
it's not doubt is is a hard 
thing. 

392
00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:15,900
Yeah and I guess like I guess 
what I was saying about like not

393
00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:17,400
being able to communicate and 
verbalize it. 

394
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,000
It's like because they become so
colloquial because everyone says

395
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,100
it, it's like, if I use this 
word, is that not validating? 

396
00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:25,600
What you're feeling, or is that 
too extreme? 

397
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,400
It's like it's these two ends of
this spectrum and I like 

398
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,700
couldn't find what it meant for 
you. 

399
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:33,500
And so I was afraid to talk 
about it and I was afraid to use

400
00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:38,600
those words and I think like 
yeah and I think people forget 

401
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,200
the importance of like language 
and vocabulary and like how it 

402
00:20:42,208 --> 00:20:45,500
really can affect people. 
Thank you so much for coming by 

403
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:46,700
Pie has so much. 
I'm fine. 

404
00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:49,500
We'll have you back many times 
I'm so ready, guys. 

405
00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:50,900
I feel like there's so much more
we have to discuss. 

406
00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:53,300
Well, okay, here's the thing. 
This is like a brief overview. 

407
00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:55,000
That's doesn't even go to down 
here opinion. 

408
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,300
But the number of conversations 
we have about mental health and 

409
00:20:57,300 --> 00:21:00,600
society and like our opinion, I 
believe naturally talking about 

410
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,400
like we just talked about it, 
all of our conversation. 

411
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,600
Yeah. 
Shouldn't we didn't even get 

412
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:04,800
into today. 
So I can't wait for those 

413
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,100
episodes where we literally just
debate back and forth about the 

414
00:21:07,108 --> 00:21:10,300
pros and the cons, and all the 
dimensions of social media. 

415
00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:12,400
Exactly. 
All I could stuff the way the 

416
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,900
magical creatures are so looking
Valley culturing all that's 

417
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:19,100
time. 
It's a cold. 

418
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:22,900
Stigma. 
Hey mom. 

419
00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:26,300
So, yeah, there are definitely 
more episodes coming about that 

420
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:27,900
but thank you so much for coming
today. 

421
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:30,400
I love talking to you for having
me. 

422
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,700
This was so fun. 
Yes, nobody will see my sister's

423
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:34,500
play. 
Oh my God, I'm so excited. 

424
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,400
It's going to be so good. 
It's a musical. 

425
00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:38,400
I'm like really excited. 
Apparently, it's good. 

426
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:41,400
These are these chosen notorious
for being like hours long, but 

427
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,200
I'm like so ready Sadie's. 
Not expressing the same feelings

428
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,600
as me. 
But I'm telling you, I'm 

429
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,600
literally so excited. 
We hate go now though. 

430
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,500
So thanks for listening. 
Be sure to follow the 

431
00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:53,200
nevertheless. 
She persisted podcast Instagram 

432
00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:57,700
at nevertheless. 
With SS, the Twitter that she 

433
00:21:57,700 --> 00:22:02,300
persisted underscore SS and the 
Facebook. 

434
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,100
Nevertheless, she persisted 
podcast with Sadie Sutton to 

435
00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:09,000
stay up-to-date on new episodes,
dropping recordings behind the 

436
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,900
scenes content and all of that. 
Be sure to tune back in next 

437
00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:18,500
week for another episode. 
Thanks for listening and I'm 

438
00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:20,300
sleepy P. 
Wait I'm not ready. 

439
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:21,500
I wasn't ready. 
I like to go now. 

440
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:25,800
Okay, ready and PS? 
Nevertheless she persisted