1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,520 And at the end of the day, that causes you work because people 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:08,000 will be contacting you about one thing and you have to explain 3 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,680 again and again how you do that and all of this. 4 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,440 It can be kind of messy. I think if you ever hesitate 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,720 about sending your website, that's a massive giveaway. 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,240 Yeah, I don't really want to look at it. 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,720 Yeah, absolutely. And it's crazy, right? 8 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,800 Because we do spend all this time on Instagram curating all 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:34,160 of this stuff and we forget about the website. 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,360 And then anytime someone says they want to follow up with the 11 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:44,160 website, you cringe. So that's the big giveaway. 12 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:48,120 Yeah, you're. Now listening to Design Curious, 13 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,360 a place where you creative one are here to learn about what it 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,680 really is like to be an interior designer. 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,920 And I'm your host and mentor, Rebecca Ward. 16 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:02,640 If you're worried about how to succeed in a creative career, if 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,480 you're ready to learn your next steps to become an interior 18 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,840 designer, and if you want the satisfaction of doing something 19 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,280 you love every day, you are in the right place. 20 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,720 Grab a coffee, a notebook, and let's dig into today's episode. 21 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:23,120 Hello and welcome to episode 174 of Design Curious Podcast. 22 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:28,120 Today on the podcast we have website designer Elle Kwan. 23 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,920 She works with interior designers whose work deserves 24 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,240 the spotlight, but whose websites are whispering when 25 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,640 they should be commanding the room. 26 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,440 She creates elevated magnetic brands that open doors to bigger 27 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,760 budgets, magazine spreads and the kind of dream clients who 28 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,080 say, here are the keys, go make magic. 29 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,680 Don't we all want that? So I really enjoyed the 30 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,320 conversation today with Elle and I think you will too. 31 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,280 So let's get into it. Hi Elle, welcome to Design 32 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,200 Curious Podcast. It's great to have you here 33 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,160 today. Oh my gosh, thank you so much 34 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,200 for having me. I'm so excited to be here with 35 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,639 you. Yeah, we were just chatting 36 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,600 about how you are actually in Hong Kong and you are in 37 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:17,040 tomorrow for me, so. I know visiting from the future. 38 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,440 Yeah, yeah. Well, why don't you tell us your 39 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,560 origin story about how you started doing websites and 40 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,680 copywriter for interior designers and maybe even why you 41 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,800 are in Hong Kong? Right, well, I came from a 42 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,800 little place called Dartford, which is in Kent in the UK, can 43 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,400 probably tell from my accent. And I was growing up I thought 44 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:44,120 it was the most boring place on earth and I really was craving 45 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,320 excitement. After uni I did that thing where 46 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,080 you go travelling and I don't know, I hit upon Asia and I 47 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:54,600 loved it. But incidentally, I had just 48 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,320 been back to the UK for the summer, and I discovered 49 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,000 numerous things about Dartford that I'd forgotten that are 50 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:07,520 really interesting. Like, yeah, there's some really 51 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,080 cool stuff. Like 1 is it's home to wild 52 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,840 barricades, right? Which is really weird. 53 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,840 And it said that Bob Dylan might have released those from Carnaby 54 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:20,280 St. And I don't know why they've 55 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,840 ended up in Dartford, which is like half an hour away from 56 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,560 London, but they have Mick Jagger is from Dartford, from 57 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,240 The Rolling Stones. Henry the Eighth has a house 58 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,560 there, except he had to give it up to one of his wives that he 59 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,760 divorced. So there's loads of history 60 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:38,440 there. There's loads. 61 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,760 So yeah. So anyway, it's very exciting. 62 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,200 And we moved here almost 20 years ago. 63 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,840 You know, we came for two years just to see how it would be. 64 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,640 And it's been fantastic. I felt like home as soon as I 65 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,800 stepped off the plane. And yeah. 66 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,960 And I was more of a journalist, writer then. 67 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:04,600 I worked for magazines. Hong Kong is very into luxury 68 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:08,960 and design, and they love their labels. 69 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,200 So I wrote for a lot of luxury magazines. 70 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,800 But obviously with design as an element, we're talking about 71 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,200 hospitality, high end restaurants or Vista. 72 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,720 Then when I had my babies, I kind of took a bit of time out 73 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,160 and I was actually struggling with parenting. 74 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:31,040 And I found a a nonprofit that was focused on parenting and 75 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,000 they were looking for someone who could handle all their 76 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,560 content. So I inherited a very old and 77 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:42,840 clunky blog that I was supposed to take over, and I started 78 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:45,080 writing for them. And, you know, I was writing in 79 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,000 a similar way that I was for the magazines, which was more 80 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,080 entertainment. And then I realised that this 81 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,680 kind of writing, book writing, was really connected to selling 82 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,480 and sales. And so that's why I learned 83 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,680 copywriting. And you know, in the end we were 84 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,840 in charge of some really big campaigns for them. 85 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:08,840 They sold courses and certifications and things like 86 00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:11,320 that. And then after eight years of 87 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,200 being with them, you know, my babies were now older, and I 88 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,120 just started thinking I would like to do something that 89 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,040 brought those two worlds together. 90 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,440 And so with the experience I had, it kind of made sense to go 91 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,640 into copywriting, which I did. And I was still frustrated with 92 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:33,160 web design, but actually web design's really moved forward. 93 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,840 Now a lot of the platforms are drag and drop. 94 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:40,280 They're no code, they're easy, and I found that I could 95 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:43,080 actually design alongside writing. 96 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:46,000 So I just marry that experience now. 97 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:50,160 I love working with interior designers because they're 98 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,320 creative souls, they're visionaries. 99 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:57,040 They have a lot to think and say, but they don't necessarily 100 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,040 say it on their websites. And marketing can feel a bit new 101 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:06,440 as well, so there's plenty of scope there for kind of opening 102 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,880 that up as the channel for interior designers. 103 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,000 And, you know, I love listening to them, and I have such a great 104 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:14,760 aberration for what they do. I wish I could do it, too. 105 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,600 Yeah. But my design is definitely 106 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,640 online focused rather than in real life. 107 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,800 Yeah, still creative, still creative outlet, but yeah. 108 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,720 I love it, Yeah. I definitely lose myself in the 109 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,800 flow of it. You know, I do love it. 110 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,520 And I, I'm introverted, so I love hunkering in front of my 111 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,280 computer. So yeah. 112 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,400 So how do you find your clients, your design clients? 113 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,880 Do they start out being local or have you just been online 114 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:49,720 internationally or? Yeah, definitely internationally 115 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,920 contacts through that I had through the magazines back in 116 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,880 the day. It's an interesting community 117 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:02,160 here because it's new as a field for kind of residential 118 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,680 properties and it can be quite closed as well. 119 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,080 And then obviously it's there's lots of the big corporate 120 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,640 groups. So that's kind of a whole 121 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:18,520 different arena. And the designers I love working 122 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:23,160 for are ones who have been in business for a while and they 123 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,000 want to move beyond the referral circle. 124 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,960 Or they're frustrated with referrals not being as steady as 125 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,800 they like and they need another Ave. 126 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:38,480 And mostly they set up their website and then they feel like 127 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,440 it's embarrassing, but it doesn't reflect the level of 128 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,760 their work. So they're the ones I ultimately 129 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,280 like to help and they are all over the world and I'm well 130 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,200 placed, right? It's great. 131 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,800 The time difference for the UK is great. 132 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,200 America, I can work while you guys are sleeping. 133 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,040 Australia's just a few hours so. Yeah, yeah. 134 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,240 Wow. OK, so let's talk about interior 135 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,280 designers websites then. How should they be working for 136 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,200 them? What should be on the website? 137 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,120 Yeah. So I think really what we've 138 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:20,360 seen is this evolvement from initially websites being a 139 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,120 portfolio piece or an extension of the portfolio. 140 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:28,680 And still we see a lot of websites where you click on and 141 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,679 it is just the pictures that scroll through and and very 142 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,720 little else. Sometimes that's all there can 143 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:40,919 be and I just think it's missing an opportunity because if you 144 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:46,240 think about people who are interested in hiring interior 145 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,600 designers and the kind of publications that they are 146 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:54,120 looking at, you know, if we think, I don't know, Elder Core 147 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,120 or something, you have the images. 148 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,080 People fall in love with the images, but the story is just as 149 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,440 important as well. We'd love to hear about what was 150 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,400 used and why it was used and why it was chosen because generally 151 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,360 that's outside of your field of expertise. 152 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,880 And there's almost some romance in there as well. 153 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,960 So that's really handy to have on a website. 154 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:24,040 And I think that's one big challenge with websites is that 155 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,680 we often write them from our point of view, like what is 156 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,440 happening for us? Like what are the services that 157 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,080 I want to offer? How do I work? 158 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,320 Whereas if you think about it, when you go onto a website, you 159 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,360 are really looking at what's in it for you. 160 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,360 You know, what do I get from this experience? 161 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,440 Do I like this designer? Do I resonate with them above 162 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,520 any other designer who I'm checking out? 163 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,200 And so the website is a fantastic opportunity to really 164 00:09:55,560 --> 00:10:01,320 build that connection and it can work whether you are really 165 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,280 building kind of your authority or you're showing up on 166 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:05,880 Instagram and doing a good job there. 167 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,600 It can work as an extension. But I also hear from a lot of 168 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:15,000 designers who are tired with the push from Instagram, always 169 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,920 feeling like they need to be on there and getting DMS from 170 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,560 people who are not really clients but want advice or want 171 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,840 to know where this tile came from, this kind of thing. 172 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:33,880 The website is much more of a sales vehicle than it is a 173 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,360 marketing vehicle, which Instagram is. 174 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:41,680 So on a website, you're going to get your more serious shoppers. 175 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:46,760 They're really narrowing down, hey, who am I going for rather 176 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,640 than DIY? How do I do this kind of topic? 177 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,160 Yeah, that's a good distinction there. 178 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:58,040 How would a designer kind of help them stand out from another 179 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:03,160 with their website? I think it's really comes down 180 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:09,280 to being specific about who you are, how you work, what your 181 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,840 specialism is, and so who you're talking to. 182 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:19,200 Importantly, it's really easy to well, I feel like interior 183 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:24,560 designers have a lot of fear about really niching down or, 184 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,720 you know, standing up and saying this is what I do. 185 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:32,200 You know, I was working with the coloured specialist recently and 186 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,160 to look at her site, you would never know that that was her 187 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:39,160 specialism. It was kind of bare basics of 188 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,360 what she could do. And when I dug into this love of 189 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,880 colour and this expertise, you know, she was trained in colour, 190 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:51,360 she'd done certifications in it. It was her real selling point. 191 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,360 So really it's, it's kind of the secret sauce. 192 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:58,400 What makes you, you and designers are passionate, right? 193 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,800 They don't just do it because, you know, it's hard work to make 194 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,360 this business work. They do it because somebody's 195 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,160 driving them. So it's really tapping into that 196 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,920 kind of desire. Who, who do you want to help? 197 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:13,400 Why do you want to spend your time doing this? 198 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,680 And what are you best at? Basically, I think once you 199 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:21,600 cannot really articulate that on your website, it starts to set 200 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,520 you aside from every other designer. 201 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,960 And then of course that works whether you're talking story, 202 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,240 the way you're writing about what you do or the way you're 203 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,920 showing what you do. So you can show your images, but 204 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,440 you can also style your website to convey this message. 205 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:45,400 You know, whether it's luxury or whether it's country dwellings 206 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:49,480 that you work on or you know, historical kind of residences, 207 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,120 all of that can be conveyed in the design of the website as 208 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,600 well. Yeah, I'm sure your job is kind 209 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,040 of like our job as a designer because we might have a client 210 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:08,200 come to us and show us a picture of some, maybe some really clean 211 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:13,600 and minimalist interior that they like, but their lifestyle 212 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,320 would not match up with that type of style very well. 213 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,240 So we have to coach the client and say, well, you can take some 214 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,360 aspects of that, but it's going to look completely different 215 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,120 than this photo that you're showing us because you live in a 216 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,640 different way. So I'm sure for websites as 217 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,840 well, like a designer might come to you and say here is a 218 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:37,880 beautiful minimalist website that I love, but it's not really 219 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,600 going to show what they're great at. 220 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,760 Like if it's colour or if it's like maximalism or something 221 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,960 like that. It needs to match up with what 222 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,200 the designer is actually doing is is what I'm hearing you say. 223 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:54,080 Yeah, I mean, exactly. It really is about tapping into 224 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,280 what makes them distinct and then reflecting it. 225 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,000 It can be scary. That's why it's good to work 226 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:06,320 with people on it, because you can talk all of this stuff out 227 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,360 when you're just working on that by yourself in your own mind, it 228 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,080 can be difficult to classify, but also if it's scary because 229 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,320 you're making a decision about who you're not choosing to work 230 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,920 with as much as you are who you are choosing to work with. 231 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:27,800 So I think we always start with what are your business goals? 232 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,480 What do you want to achieve? And that that can feel very 233 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,520 fuzzy at the start. So it's about really clarifying 234 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,040 that as well. OK, so you work with the 235 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,240 designer to kind of help refine their message of what they bring 236 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,440 to the table? Yeah, we and we have some fun 237 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,320 times as well. Like people say it's like fun 238 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:53,560 Europey. Like I have people laugh and I 239 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,240 have people cry and I have people have lightning bolts. 240 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,080 So, and that's the part I love, and that's the bit that feels, 241 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,080 you know, back to my journalism days when I was interviewing 242 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,480 people, you know, it's really kind of bringing these stories 243 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:08,960 now. I love that. 244 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,880 Oh, yeah, That would be really helpful, your journalistic 245 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,720 background to just find the story within what the words that 246 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,760 they're saying, Yeah. Yeah. 247 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:18,680 Or not. Absolutely. 248 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,400 Well, when I was studying writing that one of the 249 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:27,560 exercises that we had to do was watch the Evening News and 250 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,760 predict what headlines would be the next day, you know, so you 251 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:35,520 really do get a sense of like, Oh my gosh, that's such great 252 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:40,040 language, how can I do that? Or Oh my God, you said that 253 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,600 different from any other designer I've heard explain this 254 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,080 process and it's just really pulling it out. 255 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:51,520 So I always record when we're working and I actually often 256 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,960 speak to clients or US clients. And I asked them about the 257 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,720 designer and I asked them about their experiences because when 258 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,320 we're talking about our website, we are talking about the 259 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,840 designer's message. But like I said before, we also 260 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:09,080 want to reflect what the potential clients looking for as 261 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,160 well. So using their language is 262 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,720 really useful too. Yeah, great. 263 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,400 So what would be some maybe common mistakes that an interior 264 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,960 designer is doing with their current website before they get 265 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:26,400 some help from you? I think the main 1 is just 266 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,120 treating it like a portfolio and just not including enough 267 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,640 detail. And a quick way to rectify that 268 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:37,760 is add some testimonials and even better add a case story. 269 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:43,040 So we have these amazing images and then just talk about the 270 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,360 kind of before and I call it the before and after archway. 271 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,560 So you basically talk about the before, what was the client 272 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,600 facing? What were they worried about? 273 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,360 And the after what they actually experienced. 274 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:02,120 And then the archway is have you helped bring that about? 275 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:07,240 So that's a really simple before and after transformation story. 276 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:11,000 And you know, we're all hooked on all those design shows. 277 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:12,800 We love a before and after, right? 278 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,400 And we show that in pictures, but you can show that in words 279 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:20,280 as well. And then the other main issue is 280 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,880 that people don't think about what they want that website to 281 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,079 do. They often think like, oh, I 282 00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:28,160 need something. I mean, that's reflective of my 283 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,240 work. But they also forget to ask that 284 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,000 something of their client. And that can be something as 285 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:38,320 simple as like sign up for emails that they might send or 286 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,520 updates if they give talks in the community, this kind of 287 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:43,000 thing. Or. 288 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:48,160 It can be the the big one book of consultation or e-mail me 289 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:54,200 about an inquiry or get started. I don't know why but it seems 290 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,560 designers are shy to include those kind of buttons or calls 291 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,920 to action on their website and they can be totally missing a 292 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,640 lot of the time. And then the other one I love is 293 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,000 just a kind of fleshed out mini bio. 294 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,720 Just why? Why are you doing this work? 295 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,040 What inspires you? Because that kind of connection 296 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,240 really helps you connect with your potential clients. 297 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,080 Anyone that's visiting that site, that doesn't have to be 298 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,760 potential clients. It could be editors, it could be 299 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:34,440 other people who know people, but they want to look at the 300 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,520 site and know who you are a little bit, not just your work. 301 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:44,480 Yeah, that's really good. So how often do you need to 302 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,360 redesign your website? Maybe you've had it for five 303 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:50,680 years or I don't know, maybe even longer. 304 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,880 But you know, it's time for a redesign. 305 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,160 Well, when you look at your site and it doesn't feel like you 306 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,920 anymore, maybe you have evolved your services and your website 307 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,920 still says you do. I don't know this kind of design 308 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,080 and actually you've moved into virtual design, but it doesn't 309 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,080 say. And at the end of the day, that 310 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:16,120 causes you work because people will be contacting you about one 311 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:20,280 thing and you have to explain again and again how you don't do 312 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,240 that. And all of this, it can be kind 313 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,400 of messy. I think if you ever hesitate 314 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:31,840 about sending your website, that's a massive giveaway, yeah. 315 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,200 I don't really want to look at it. 316 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,680 Yeah, absolutely. And it's crazy, right? 317 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,720 Because we do spend all this time on Instagram curating all 318 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,160 of this stuff and we forget about the website. 319 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,320 And then anytime someone says they want to follow up with the 320 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,360 website, you cringe. It's like, Oh no. 321 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,880 So that's the date giveaway. And I think also anytime you're 322 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,280 actively scaling or expanding, you're having additions. 323 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,920 That's a good time. You're adding staff members, 324 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,880 this kind of thing. I think the first. 325 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,760 Few years, you're constantly going back and forth. 326 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,920 What are your offers? How are you working? 327 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:15,720 You figure out your mistakes, right? 328 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:20,880 By about year three, you're kind of oh, OK, I'm going to at least 329 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,520 settle on this for a while. So that's a good time as well. 330 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,600 If you've started off with kind of a basic website, but now you 331 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,480 you've found your track, that's a good time too. 332 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,400 OK. And if a designer wants to work 333 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,840 with a website designer like yourself, what are some things 334 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,280 that they should ask about to find the right match for a 335 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,520 designer for them? Absolutely. 336 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:54,600 One of the big ones is how did they manage the website once 337 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,600 it's done. As I said, when I started with 338 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,560 the nonprofit, I inherited this old website. 339 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,000 It was guarded by a tech guy that I never met, but who is 340 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,000 allocated 30 minutes a month or something like that, that he 341 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,440 would work on that website. And so any technical stuff, it 342 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,040 was just we were powerless, you know, we were held ransomed by 343 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,160 the website. And these days it doesn't have 344 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,920 to be like that, but a lot of that still happens. 345 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:31,280 So you get handed this website and you have no idea how to 346 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:38,760 replace pictures or if you are into adding case studies or 347 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,360 before and afters, you don't know how to do it. 348 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:44,600 And that's really frustrating and that's why it can get out of 349 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,760 date fast. So it pays to look for a 350 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:53,720 designer who can at least educate you on how you can use 351 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,200 the website. Then the other one is 352 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,760 capability. You know, just what do you want? 353 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,320 If you want a shop, can they do that? 354 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,920 If you are in a time crunch, can they do that? 355 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,200 You know, the basic things like that. 356 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,400 But the big one is try and avoid getting stuck into some kind of 357 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,400 gatekeeping thing where you have to pay for a retainer to get 358 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,120 your website updated because no one wants that. 359 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure, because yeah, you 360 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,920 might have a new project every couple of months. 361 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,800 You want to be able to update and not have to keep going back 362 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,080 through that retainer and right? I mean, and it's fine if you are 363 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,000 so busy and you're at that stage, you're like, yeah, I just 364 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,840 want to pay someone to do this. But for little tweaks and 365 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,880 changes, go, who wants to like look at a headline and just 366 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,000 think that was me six months ago and now I don't know how to 367 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,720 change this. This person wants me to pay like 368 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,080 a few 1000 bucks for me to just change it, you know, like that 369 00:22:56,080 --> 00:23:00,720 doesn't make any sense. So I think it really pays to to 370 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,600 look and just flexibility, like how well do you resonate? 371 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,920 How well are they going to work to understand you and what 372 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,680 you're trying to achieve? Because it's easy to get like a 373 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,720 cookie cutter website. Yeah, it's not nearly as 374 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,600 effective as something that really does feel like you, that 375 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,160 you're happy to share. Like, it leaves such a burden 376 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,640 off your shoulders when you're like, yeah, look at this. 377 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,200 Yeah, because. You're happy to send it. 378 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,160 Yeah, it's like your partner working in the background. 379 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,560 If you have a great website, it's like telling all the 380 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,920 information, showing all the work and selling yourself to a 381 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:40,840 potential client while you're sleeping. 382 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,200 It could be, you know, So, yeah, yeah. 383 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,680 Well, the the big questions as well as is are you going to 384 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,560 write the website as well as design it? 385 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,280 Are you going to add search capabilities so you are found in 386 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,680 Google? Those are all great questions as 387 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,040 well. So you know the scope and also 388 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,880 what they expect for you to deliver. 389 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,600 Do you have pictures ready? How many do they need those kind 390 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,480 of practical things to really handy as well how long it's 391 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,760 going to take and how invested you need to be? 392 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,080 And another one I love to ask is how do you keep me updated so 393 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,400 that you can kind of fit that into your schedule as well? 394 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,520 Because no one wants the website to be a huge, big headache for 395 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,000 months on it. Right. 396 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,160 Yeah, it. Shouldn't be. 397 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:26,880 It shouldn't be. Like in this day and age, it 398 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:28,520 shouldn't be, but sometimes it can be. 399 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,840 Yeah, OK. Well, you've generously offered 400 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,120 a free 30 minute consult for our listeners and we'll be sure and 401 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,560 provide that link. Can you go over what you might 402 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,760 do in those thirty minutes on the call? 403 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,560 Yeah, absolutely. So I call it the three S 404 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,680 framework because when I work with clients, focus on strategy 405 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,320 first, then story and then the style. 406 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,160 And So what we do on that call, we really look at what's working 407 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,280 for the website and then where it's falling flat and maybe 408 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:05,880 losing you clients or losing you inquiries because a good website 409 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:12,760 really should be qualifying your inquiries and increasing them as 410 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,040 well. So we just go through OK, well 411 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,960 strategy, what is your website doing for you right now? 412 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,960 And what do you really want it to be doing? 413 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,280 Why is it not doing that story? What is your website saying 414 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,320 about you and who is it speaking to? 415 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,560 And is that a match for you? Is that what you want? 416 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,440 Is that working? And then style, is this 417 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,280 conveying what you want it to convey? 418 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:43,000 And then on that call, I normally give 3 to 5 action 419 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,800 points that they can really take away and and just do themselves 420 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,840 to refresh the website a little bit if they want to, so they 421 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,520 come away with something really useful as well. 422 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,840 Yeah, that's wonderful. I think people will definitely 423 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,720 want to take advantage of that. Where can we find you? 424 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,120 Are you? You're on Instagram and you hang 425 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:05,840 out and I'm sure your website so. 426 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,440 Yeah, my website is the best place I read. 427 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:14,000 So it's elquan.com. Very easy. 428 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,960 Just myname.com. I am on Instagram and I'm trying 429 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:25,320 to be better on Instagram. So I'm at I'm at elquan.com, but 430 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,520 I find it a little overwhelming. So I do check my DM. 431 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,040 So the best way to get me on Instagram is to just DM me and 432 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,920 then I can get in touch back with you. 433 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,360 And then the website has everything. 434 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:42,600 It has a list of my services. It has how to book that website 435 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:47,360 review and anything else they want to know about me, what I'm 436 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:53,080 listening to right now. OK, Well, we'll put those links 437 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,840 in the show notes to make sure everybody can find you. 438 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,840 Thank you all for coming on and sharing all of your insight 439 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,400 about website, which is such an important tool for designers to 440 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,720 have and use it well. So thank you for sharing today. 441 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,880 You're so welcome, thank you for having me. 442 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,800 Yeah, it's great talking with you. 443 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,320 All right, so we have Elle's contact information in the show 444 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,360 notes because I know you're going to want to reach out to 445 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:30,400 her, get your website all spoofed up and ready for your 446 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,480 ideal client. And don't forget we have a lot 447 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,920 of other great things in the show notes and on Spotify, we've 448 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,120 put together some playlist just for you. 449 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:44,520 So we have different categories depending on if you are a career 450 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,200 shifter or if you're just starting out in interior design 451 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,200 or if you're looking to develop your skills. 452 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,320 So we have some playlists for you. 453 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,040 So you can just cut right to the episodes that are meant going to 454 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,120 speak to you in this time of life. 455 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:01,400 And so check that out on Spotify. 456 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,400 But of course, you can listen to these podcasts wherever you get 457 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,440 your podcasts, even on YouTube. All right, that's all I have for 458 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,040 you this week. Next week we'll have another 459 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,680 great episode. And until then, stay creative. 460 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,280 Thanks for listening. If you love this episode, please 461 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,080 leave a rating and a review. This helps me reach other 462 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,800 curious creatives like you. If you have a topic request or 463 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,080 would like to contact me, simply head over to my website 464 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:34,440 ourawarddesign.com or e-mail me at podcast@ourawarddesign.com.