1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,360 I'm speaking to a really nice couple about to move into a home 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:08,720 and they were initially looking for hard finish support only. 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,000 We don't generally take on projects where it's just hard 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:13,680 finish. And I will talk to designers 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,120 still. I'm blue in the base about the 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,240 importance of selling product as well by product furnishings with 7 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:23,480 an S but that's not really what they were in the market for. 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,000 But I liked them and we were really having a great 9 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:29,160 connection, great call. And one of my designers had 10 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,760 already done more of a vetting phone call with them. 11 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:33,400 So I knew that they were possibility. 12 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,600 So I brought up a pitch deck that I had about what does it 13 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,800 feel like to work with impeccably designed homes? 14 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,480 And I said, you know, I know some of this is beyond what 15 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:46,440 you're looking for because we're a full service interior design 16 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,880 company. But let me just show you what 17 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,080 the path looks like. And a lot of this would drop out 18 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,120 for you because it sounds like you just want hard finished 19 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,720 support for your extent, this big renovation that they wanted 20 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:58,880 to do. Well, by the time we were done 21 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,200 with me showing with them what we did, the both of them said, 22 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,120 you know what, we think we want you to do more. 23 00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:07,160 We think we want to do some whole home insert. 24 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:08,560 We do it. We do it in phases. 25 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,200 Can we do it, you know, a few rooms at a time? 26 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,000 I said sure, absolutely. You're now listening to Design 27 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,080 Curious, the place where you, Creative one, are here to learn 28 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,120 about what it really is like to be an interior designer. 29 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,360 And I'm your host and mentor, Rebecca Ward. 30 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:30,080 If you're worried about how to succeed in a creative career, if 31 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,920 you're ready to learn your next steps to become an interior 32 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:37,320 designer, and if you want the satisfaction of doing something 33 00:01:37,320 --> 00:01:40,760 you love every day, you are in the right place. 34 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:45,160 Grab a coffee, a notebook and let's dig into today's episode. 35 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,160 Hello and welcome to episode 172 of Design Curious podcast. 36 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,640 Today on the podcast, I have guest Donna Hoffman. 37 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,360 She is a seasoned interior design business coach who 38 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,680 successfully built her seven figure luxury interior design 39 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,240 firm despite launching during the 2008 Great Recession. 40 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:09,080 Known in the industry as the master of Words, Donna brings 41 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,160 unmatched insights in branding, marketing and sales strategy 42 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,320 specifically tailored for design CEO's. 43 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:20,080 Her coaching empowers clients to clarify their niche, to 44 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,440 compellingly communicate their value with confidence, and to 45 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,800 significantly elevate their revenue, often doubling and 46 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,360 tripling their fees or surpassing previous income 47 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,240 ceilings. Uniquely, Donna integrates a 48 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,520 keen understanding of the creative brain, guiding highly 49 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:40,240 sensitive entrepreneurs to identify routine and hidden 50 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,400 business stressors that affect creative brains in particular, 51 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,040 and to structure their businesses to support highest 52 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,680 profitability and personal well-being. 53 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,160 Her broader approach refrains sensitivity as a strategic 54 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,680 asset, enabling design business owners to operate more 55 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,600 profitably, make sharper decisions, and build businesses 56 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:06,480 that are resilient and scalable. I loved talking with Donna. 57 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:12,160 We had very much aligned thoughts on how designers should 58 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,400 run their businesses. We also started our businesses 59 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,960 around the same time. So it's fun to talk to someone 60 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,360 who's in the same phase of life as me as far as the business 61 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,200 goes and coaching and all that. So let's talk with Donna and 62 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:27,960 hear what she has to say. Hi. 63 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,320 Donna, welcome to Design Curious Podcast. 64 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,040 It's great to have you on today. Thanks, Rebecca. 65 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,440 I'm so happy to be here with you. 66 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:37,960 Yeah. I think we're very much aligned. 67 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:42,360 Both of us have a passion for our industry and the designers 68 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,760 working in it and their businesses. 69 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,800 And so first of all, let's get started. 70 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,480 Who you are, how you got into this industry in the first 71 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:56,040 place. Yeah, so I got into the industry 72 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,720 just in time for the 2008 crash. Perfect. 73 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,760 So I've never knew. What I mean, and just to make it 74 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:08,000 really interesting, my life partner, my hubby, my best 75 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,720 friend in the world, his industry was collapsing and so 76 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,160 he was imploding and going offshore. 77 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:20,640 So just as I'm launching this business mid mortgage, two kids 78 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:24,760 were saving for college, Steve's career starts taking a huge hit. 79 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,240 So I knew I had to be successful and I had to be successful 80 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,080 really quickly. So I was the designer building 81 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,600 out a business that today is A7 figure business. 82 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,600 But I was crying on the way to my appointments with my clients. 83 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,480 I'd suck it up, be terrific in the meeting with my clients, get 84 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,800 back in the car and I'd sob because I didn't want to cry at 85 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:46,320 the house. I didn't want to make Steve feel 86 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,600 worse and I didn't want our kids to know how much pressure I was 87 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,560 under. So I'd tell you that not as a 88 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,320 poor, poor, pitiful me, grateful for what we were able to create 89 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,440 and to do, but just making sure my ringer's off. 90 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:01,800 How rude would that be? But to say that I didn't marry 91 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,200 Rockefeller. I wasn't born with a silver 92 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:08,080 spoon in my mouth, and I was terrified. 93 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,400 As I was building this business. There was a moment, Rebecca, 94 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,920 where I thought one day we could lose our house. 95 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,160 I wonder if we're going through the college money we're dipping 96 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,960 into the four O 1K. And I can tell you that as as of 97 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,520 the moment that we're taping this, we're hosting A stunning 98 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,440 wedding for our daughter at the Ritz Carlton in Philadelphia 99 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:30,280 just a few days. So all this to say that I dug 100 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:33,640 this out of a hole with a design business. 101 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,640 Yes, to be able to monetize creativity to everybody who's 102 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,720 out there listening, there is a way to monetize creativity, but 103 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,280 you have to be very strategic, very savvy about what you're 104 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:47,240 doing with it. So we'll dig in all that today. 105 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,040 Sure. I'm sure, yeah. 106 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:53,000 So when you started your business, you definitely 107 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:57,440 couldn't do it as just a hobby or a jobby it had to be 108 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,080 profitable. How did you even learn how to 109 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,280 start your business? Like, were you an entrepreneur 110 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,600 before? Did you have a mentor or a 111 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:08,880 coach? Yeah. 112 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,160 Oh, great questions. So I had already had a 113 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,920 consulting business in a totally different world. 114 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,360 I don't know if you've ever heard of TV shopping, but I was 115 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,320 an on air host in TV shopping for several years, left that and 116 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,720 began to consult to teach other people how to do that. 117 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,200 So I already knew how to run a consulting business. 118 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:33,160 I already had become really good at sales because there's one 119 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,640 thing you learn to do as a QV C show host is how to load your 120 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,480 airtime dollars per minute and be very compelling, but in a 121 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,240 covert way. So my knowledge and 122 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,800 understanding of sales and marketing absolutely aided me 123 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,640 and I already had a business brain from having run another 124 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:55,320 consulting business and I had to be successful. 125 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,400 I mean, it wasn't a question of if it was, I had to be. 126 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,480 And so I just kept my head down through a horrible economy 127 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,560 launch and I just kept going and I made it happen. 128 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,240 So you definitely came into it with high skills in sales and 129 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,840 marketing. So what were some of the first 130 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:18,240 steps you took towards that in your business? 131 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,840 Well, very early on I realized that investing in the business 132 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,200 was going to be important. A lot of designers, I enter this 133 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,520 industry thinking this is a no cost start up. 134 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,560 It's not like starting a bakery right where I need to buy pots 135 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,760 and pans and have a a storefront. 136 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,840 Well, savvy business people know that you have to invest in your 137 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,680 business. And I saw the writing on the 138 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,120 wall very quickly. I thought, man, I don't even 139 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,000 know what I don't know. And yeah, there's a lot of free 140 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,160 information out there, but I don't have time to sift through 141 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,560 the good stuff and the garbage. So I invested in a coach pretty 142 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,840 early on in my career. And ultimately I'm so grateful 143 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,240 for the business coaching that I've received, which is why I 144 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,360 coached today. But ultimately, even the very 145 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,600 best coaches failed me eventually because they didn't 146 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:13,320 understand or they didn't address how a brain like yours, 147 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,360 a brain like mine, a brain like everybody listening, the 148 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,680 creative brain, how does that operate in business? 149 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,880 And the routine stresses in business that would upset a 150 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,720 civilian affect us differently, deeper. 151 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,440 And so working with even the very best business coach 152 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,720 ultimately started to frustrate me. 153 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:36,799 However, I still to this day credit my early launching 154 00:08:36,799 --> 00:08:40,080 success with the work that I did with the coach. 155 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,679 I so believe in coaching and I don't say that because I coach a 156 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,480 coach because I know it moves the needle and, and I know you 157 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,080 know that too, and so do your listeners. 158 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,000 Yeah, for sure. So what are some of those 159 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,960 challenges that you're seeing then with the people that you're 160 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:58,640 coaching as far as sales, marketing, even that mindset 161 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,000 around sales because none of us get into interior design, 162 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,320 wanting to be a salesperson. No, not a one. 163 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,800 But here's, you know, the big secret that nobody's talking 164 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,120 about. You don't design for a living. 165 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:13,560 You sell design for a living. You get to design while doing 166 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:15,640 it. So I think some of the biggest 167 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,880 misnomers are that designers think they'll hang a shingle and 168 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:22,720 business will just sprout up around them. 169 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,520 Designers think that by going to design events, they're going to 170 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:27,880 get business. No. 171 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,480 And one of the biggest mistakes that I see design entrepreneurs 172 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,480 in their first seven years trajectory and even in their 173 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:38,320 twenty year, you know, there are all these phases of trajectory 174 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,280 in a design business. I was just speaking at the 175 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,120 Interior Design Society's national conference, and I was 176 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,760 addressing this room of 200 talented, savvy, smart business 177 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,200 owners. And the heads were nodding when 178 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,720 I talked about the difference between being Gina the 179 00:09:55,720 --> 00:10:00,000 generalist, Gina the generalist, or Jerry the generalist versus 180 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,960 teaching and having a compelling, succinct point of 181 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:08,800 difference. And it's incredible to me how 182 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,400 resistant design CE OS are to that because they think if I 183 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,920 niche, I'm going to close myself off from business. 184 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,680 But the way I like to teach niching, you niche and you 185 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:24,800 diversify at the same time, it's amazing to me that people in 186 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,680 that early growth trajectory don't have that nailed. 187 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,840 And I also have designers coming to me who've been in business 20 188 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,840 plus years whose numbers their earnings to start where they 189 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:38,440 want them to be. And they are also in this rut of 190 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,480 just being a generalist. You can't compete as a 191 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:45,080 generalist and you can't compete trying to be the lowest price as 192 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:46,600 a race to the bottom. Yeah. 193 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,200 So I think those are two mistakes. 194 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,720 Do you find the same thing? Yeah, yeah, for sure. 195 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,800 Nobody wants to pigeonhole themselves into saying like, oh, 196 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,760 I only do kitchens and baths or something like that and think 197 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,880 that nobody's ever going to think about them for some other 198 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,360 type of project. Right. 199 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:03,680 That's right. Yeah. 200 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,080 But I imagine that what you would agree with is that when 201 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,720 you do have a niche that you can have such specific language that 202 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,280 you can target someone much easier and get your message 203 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,320 through the noise when you have a specific message to. 204 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,280 Tell do you want an example from a phone call I had this morning 205 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,320 with a prospective client talking about niching and 206 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:27,920 diversifying, being able to pivot. 207 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:33,680 So part of our niching is that we specialize in whole home 208 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:37,920 design, whole home new build and extensive renovation. 209 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,360 And there's more to the branding message than that, but that's 210 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,600 just to give you a quick bullet point on that. 211 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,160 So I'm speaking to a really nice couple about to move into a home 212 00:11:48,680 --> 00:11:53,520 and they were initially looking for hard finish support only. 213 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,880 We don't generally take on projects where it's just hard to 214 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,520 finish. And I will talk to designers 215 00:11:58,520 --> 00:11:59,960 still. I'm blue in the face about the 216 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:04,040 importance of selling product as well by product furnishings with 217 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,320 an S, but that's not really what they were in the market for. 218 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,800 But I liked them and we were really having a great 219 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,000 connection, great call. And one of my designers had 220 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,960 already done more of a vetting phone call with them, so I knew 221 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:21,240 that they were possibility. So I brought up a pitch deck 222 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:24,280 that I have about what does it feel like to work with 223 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,200 impeccably designed homes. And I said, you know, I know 224 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,680 some of this is beyond what you're looking for because we're 225 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:31,800 a full service interior design company. 226 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,720 But let me just show you what the path looks like. 227 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,880 And a lot of this would drop out for you because it sounds like 228 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,000 you just want hard finished support for your extent. 229 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:40,960 This big renovation that they wanted to do. 230 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:45,280 Well, by the time we were done with me showing with them what 231 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,320 we did, the both of them said, you know what, we think we want 232 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,360 you to do more. We think we want to do some 233 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,280 whole home in certain. We do it. 234 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:54,200 We do it in phases. Can we do it, you know, a few 235 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,720 rooms at a time. I said sure, absolutely. 236 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,920 So the pivot for me when I talk about specializing, you know, we 237 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,640 specialize in whole home. We're excellent at whole home 238 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,760 large scale renovation because our processes are that good, but 239 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,320 you better believe we can take on a smaller project. 240 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:12,640 Then I said to them, they said, are we too small a project? 241 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,080 I said no. I said my criteria is, is your 242 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,360 budget commensurate with your scope of work? 243 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,240 Are you kind ethical. There lovely people who I think 244 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,880 we would enjoy working with and they giggled a little bit and 245 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,200 they said you don't want a tough client. 246 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:30,720 I said I don't want a nut job. So at that point I felt 247 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,960 comfortable enough, you know, with them to make the joke. 248 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,680 So the pivot for us is yes, we can do and we can do smaller 249 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,520 projects as well as long as it fits these criteria. 250 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,200 Now that said, would I accept a project where somebody's just 251 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,960 looking for a new sofa? No, because that's really not 252 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,400 what our business foundation is set up to do. 253 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,360 Though pivoting might mean we specialize in this this, this, 254 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,240 but as you talk to a client, you know, we also do, we also do 255 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:03,280 couples, designer, whatever gazillion other sub specialties 256 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:04,800 you want to have. Does that make sense? 257 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,960 Yes, 100%, yeah. So basically taking every 258 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,560 opportunity that you have with a prospective client and educating 259 00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:16,760 them to make sure that they're aware of all of your services 260 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,680 and the benefit of utilizing all of those services just like you 261 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,520 did with the clients this morning, yes. 262 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,800 And you use the golden word benefit. 263 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,280 The word benefit is that's a sales word. 264 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,120 You have to speak to the benefit of what you do, the benefit of 265 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,960 your services, the benefit of your work, why it is, what is 266 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,880 the value to the client, the benefit to them in hiring you 267 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,200 versus your competitor down, down this the block. 268 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,000 And you need to be really clear on what that is. 269 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,520 And I hope everyone listening, I hope you have a pitch deck, the 270 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,840 experience of working with ABC designs and go through it. 271 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,120 Show them what the process looks like. 272 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,400 Show them your 2D elevations, Show them your 3D elevations. 273 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,480 Show them whatever bells and whistles. 274 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:04,000 If you have line item budgets like we do, show them one so 275 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,760 they can see what does it feel like, what do they get working 276 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,200 with you. And that's really what helped to 277 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,840 turn this client from, yeah, we'll just saw finishes only to, 278 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,320 Oh yeah, you know, maybe we'll have you do a few finish out as 279 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,480 well, a couple of spaces on the 1st floor. 280 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,760 And to track back to this idea of niching and diversifying. 281 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,200 Yeah, my company does specialize in these big projects, 20,000 282 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,240 square foot residences, 14,000 square. 283 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:32,040 I mean big, but I love a small project because it's easier on 284 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,080 my team. It's great as a piece of fill 285 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,920 when we're or a filler project, I should say, when we're in 286 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:41,680 various stages and phases of some of the behemoth projects 287 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,960 that we're working on. And I find them really 288 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,760 gratifying because they finish a lot sooner. 289 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:47,360 They don't take two years to finish. 290 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,520 So this idea of niching and diversifying, being ready to 291 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,120 pivot, really important. Great. 292 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,600 OK. I love that point and that you 293 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,120 suggest that everyone should have a pitch deck. 294 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,360 Is that typically like a PowerPoint presentation or 295 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,600 something that you're showing them on your computer during the 296 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,800 consultation or? Yeah, great, Great questions. 297 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,080 So in terms of when you share it with your client or your 298 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,920 prospective client, or as I sometimes call them, the client 299 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,560 suspect until until they're until they've proven themselves 300 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:21,800 right. We're not sure we're like them 301 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:23,640 on right, because not all clients are worth having. 302 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,360 That's a that might be another podcast episode, who knows. 303 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,520 First, what's the pitch deck and then when do you show it? 304 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,760 So what is the pitch deck? It's kind of like your, your 305 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:37,880 highlight reel, but on paper. So it is PowerPoint. 306 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,160 That's how we recommend our designers. 307 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:41,960 We coach how that we recommend they do it. 308 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,120 It works really well because you know, you can embed video into a 309 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,760 slide deck. So for example, when we're 310 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,000 showing in our slide deck, when we're showing what our design 311 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,000 boards look like, we took some video just on an iPhone panning 312 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,600 down the conference room table of all of the, you know, sample 313 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,440 boards and all the yumminess. So they could say, yeah, you're 314 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,599 going to have these gorgeous electronic assets to look at, 315 00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,560 but you also have these live samples so you can put video in, 316 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,680 which is great. And whatever you feel the 317 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,240 superstar moments that you bring as a design company. 318 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:18,960 And I know you bring so many of them. 319 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,040 I know listening to me, you might be thinking, Oh no, what 320 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,119 do I do this special? You do more this special than 321 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,760 you even realize. It's amazing to me how much 322 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,600 untapped potential designers have as business owners looking 323 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,120 at their businesses. So you're going to make that 324 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,920 highlight reel for yourself. Just keep it on your desktop, 325 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,960 put it on your laptop, put it on your iPad so that you can pull 326 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,240 it out in the following ways. In our company, if somebody 327 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:51,800 calls to talk to us about perhaps engaging us, I have one 328 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,000 of my design teams speak to them first because if they're a non 329 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,520 viable client as the design Ceoi really don't have the time to 330 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,200 give to every marvelous person who wants to call our company. 331 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,200 So if they pass the litmus test as, and yeah, when you think 332 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,080 there could be a fit here, then our designer will, one of our 333 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,920 design team will turn them over to me and then we'll set up a 334 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,800 Zoom Think Zooms are a fantastic way to have a more personal, 335 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,120 engaging experience with a prospective client. 336 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,960 That said, Zoom can go on a little bit longer. 337 00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:27,480 So if it's a prospective client that you don't even know if they 338 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,960 could be correct for you, I would take that as a phone call 339 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,480 first. But if it's a great call, then 340 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,840 to say, hey, so and so you know what, before I come out to your 341 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,640 home and we look at XYZ together or I look at your blueprints or 342 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,440 whatever it is you're doing. I'd love to invite you to set up 343 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,640 a Zoom call with your significant other and me or your 344 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,560 design partner if you're designing with your mom, 345 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,440 whatever, so that we can get a better sense of each other and 346 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,400 so I can answer more questions before you have a live session 347 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,240 with me since that is at Bay. So 1/2 of this couple has spoken 348 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:05,040 to our team already, but they both came to speak to me for a 349 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,560 Zoom. So it was during that Zoom, I 350 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,080 decided would you like to know a little bit more about what the 351 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,600 experience would feel like working with me? 352 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:14,920 Great. I have a slide deck. 353 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,120 Let me just pull this up for you. 354 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:20,120 So I did it during this Zoom. However, there are times that I 355 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,600 speak to people, it's a phone call. 356 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,520 They're all in. They say, yeah, we please can we 357 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:27,760 meet with you? How do we meet with you? 358 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,000 And then when I'm meeting with them live toward the end of the 359 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,280 meeting, I, I preserve some time to say, listen, just want to 360 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,120 give you a better idea of what it will feel like, what the 361 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,480 experience will be like working with our company. 362 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,600 And I'll pull out my iPad and I'll go through that pitch deck. 363 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,120 I will do it with builders that I'm meeting with. 364 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,160 Yes, I'll do it with architects that I'm meeting with again, 365 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,320 deciding during that cocktail or that coffee or that luncheon, is 366 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:56,920 it appropriate for me to pull this out? 367 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,520 If it's going to feel salesy, slimy with the architecture 368 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,800 builder because the conversation isn't leading there, I won't do 369 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:04,680 it, but I'll have it with me just in case. 370 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:06,680 Yeah. Though, do those scenarios help 371 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:07,360 you? Yeah. 372 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,600 For sure. That that's very helpful. 373 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:15,640 Yeah, I love that and definitely makes me think that we have APDF 374 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:17,320 or something that we send out to people. 375 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,680 But having this as a pitch deck where you have slides and you 376 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,800 can embed the video and like show you in action or a 377 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,800 different scenarios like that's a great plus. 378 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,440 I think it definitely brings it home for a lot of prospective 379 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,520 clients, so. And you get to speak to it. 380 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,800 You get to voice it. So you're directing their eye. 381 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,080 You know, take a look at this. This is what a 3D model is. 382 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,520 Hit the video. We actually move you through the 383 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,400 space. You can't get that from APDF or 384 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,920 if you're talking them through a line item budget as I was today, 385 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,000 I can explain this is how our line item budgets function. 386 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,720 This is why there are so many columns. 387 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,440 This is how why we always come out on budget At the end of the 388 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,080 day, you wouldn't get that looking at APDF. 389 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,200 You just a bunch of numbers as somebody watching it for the 390 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,640 looking at it for the first time. 391 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,320 Yeah, really good. I want to go back to something 392 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,080 that you referenced earlier when you brushed over, but it's when 393 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,000 designers, they're starting out and they are selling their 394 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,960 services, but they're also wrestling with their fees and 395 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,040 telling. The service fee or selling. 396 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,640 Furnishings, they're design fees, but it's what I was 397 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,680 thinking that maybe you're referring to, but I'm sure it's 398 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,360 both because there's two parts of that, right? 399 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:31,040 You have to 1st sell your design fees and then you need to sell 400 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,120 all of the furnishings to the client, which might be a big 401 00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:37,320 number as well. OK, this is this is meaty stuff. 402 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,520 So let's talk about the design fee. 403 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,200 Unless I'm mistaken, everyone who was in business is in 404 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,240 business as a for profit business. 405 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:49,400 Unless you are a nonprofit business. 406 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,400 And if you're a nonprofit business, I'm happy to tithe or 407 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,640 do some sort of charitable contribution to you. 408 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:02,000 But if you are not a nonprofit person, then you are a consumer, 409 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,880 just as I am when I go out to a store or whatever. 410 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,600 So this idea that designers have to keep dropping their fees, I 411 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,560 don't, I, I know where it comes from. 412 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,160 It comes from the fact that designers by and large, are 413 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,880 creatives. There's this gorgeous artistic 414 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,640 soul, but it's a creative brain. And the creative brain comes 415 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,360 with certain reactivity or sensitivity that I teach about. 416 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,720 And that's what makes designers, our brains a little different as 417 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,760 a creative, things that would bother a civilian bother us 418 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,480 more. By civilian I mean a non 419 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,080 creative. And I love civilians. 420 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,880 I'm married to 1. So I don't say this in an 421 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,400 elevating way. Hey, look at us. 422 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,240 But we function a little differently. 423 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,080 So anything that would make a civilian a little nervous will 424 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,160 make us really loopy until you know how to get your arms around 425 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,200 that creative brain and use it to your advantage. 426 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,280 So this idea that designers have to apologize for charging, the 427 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,640 bottom line is you know more than your client. 428 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,240 And if you have a prospective client on the phone that's 429 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,040 telling you, I could do my own furnishings, terrific. 430 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:07,720 Let him go. Because guess what? 431 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,840 A monkey could walk into a furniture store with a credit 432 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,400 card and a well meaning furniture store salesperson 433 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,640 could furnish a monkey's home. That's not what you do. 434 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,160 It's not what I do. So if you're speaking to the 435 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:25,200 right prospective client, you should not have any problem 436 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,120 justifying the value of what you do. 437 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,960 And when I say value, sometimes designers think I'm talking 438 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,680 about the markdown sweater in, you know, the basement of the 439 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,840 department store. I'm, I don't mean value as in 440 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,960 low cost, the value of what you do, the benefit to the consumer 441 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,840 of what you do. So you have to be really clear 442 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,040 on that. And I would love for you to know 443 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,040 what your competitors are charging. 444 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,800 And even if you're charging fixed fee, I'm the only coach in 445 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,360 America who's not rah rah fixed fee. 446 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,120 I teach a hybrid. I think fixed fee has a lot of 447 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,520 risk involved for designers, but hour doesn't work either. 448 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,840 So I, I teach a blended approach. 449 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,200 But anywho, so no matter how you charge, you have to, you have to 450 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,000 have an hourly rate that you're basing your calculation on. 451 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:11,920 So I'd love you to know what are my competitors, what are my 452 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,240 colleagues charging? If you have any group that 453 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:15,720 you're masterminding with, ask them. 454 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:17,920 But if they're in different regions of the country, that 455 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:19,400 won't help you. You really want to know what 456 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,920 what's happening in your region of the country and if you feel 457 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,320 that you are below average, then I would like you to start 458 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,600 raising that up. Now, is it comfortable to do a 459 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,280 40% jump in rate? Now that's going to make you 460 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,240 uncomfortable and I'll, I'll talk to you about why in a 461 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,320 second. But first, to close this loop, I 462 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,600 recommend that as you're raising your rate, do a 10% rate 463 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:49,640 increase. January 30th, do a 15% rate 464 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,480 increase. March 1st, what? 465 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,600 Pick a day and pick a percentage. 466 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,640 Is it a 10A-12? A 15? 467 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,960 Maybe 20, but maybe 15 is going to be the easiest thing for you 468 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,480 to do. And maybe year over year you 469 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,040 want to keep looking at pulling that rate up to a point where 470 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,320 you're going to be comfortable. And the reason I said it's going 471 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,720 to make you uncomfortable is that I have seen hands down time 472 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,720 and time and time again with the savvy, talented, brilliant 473 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,160 designers that I get to coach and in their businesses. 474 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,320 I know sure as rain, as I grow a designer in her business, I'm 475 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:32,000 also going to ignite a little bit of nervousness, a little 476 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,920 apprehension, a little anxiety, which is why I think mindset 477 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,320 support is so important for people like us. 478 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,320 And which is why I included in a coaching program that I that 479 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,200 Ioffer because I know every time I have a designer raise their 480 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,040 rates, get more powerful in their niching language, define a 481 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,000 niche, start reaching out to bigger architects, better 482 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,320 builders or all the other networking that we need to do. 483 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,880 I'm going to elicit a little bit of that little bit of knee 484 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,960 knocking. So raising rates gets designers 485 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,680 nervous. And furniture, you should be 486 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,200 selling furniture. You should be selling it at 487 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,720 MSRP, period. You're not Bob's discount 488 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,400 furniture. That's not who you are. 489 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,160 Yeah. That's great. 490 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,560 I wholeheartedly agree with all of what you had just said. 491 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,160 So. Hallelujah, give me an e-mail. 492 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,520 So I'm definitely in support of that. 493 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:30,360 And I think that it is really hard for creatives to set that 494 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:35,120 money line out there and just say like, I have an expertise 495 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:37,760 and I, you know, it. Just because it comes easily to 496 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,560 me doesn't mean it comes easily to everyone else. 497 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,680 It's hard for creatives, I think, to understand. 498 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,800 Do you find that with like talking about the creative 499 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,840 brain? But like, I think creatives 500 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,200 assume everyone else can already do what they do or something. 501 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,600 They do. And just to go back to this 502 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,600 group of 200 designers I recently addressed at the IDs 503 00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,960 conference, I was talking about the nature of a creative brain 504 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:05,200 and the offshoot of it. And that in order for you to do 505 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,040 what you do so well, designing that comes with a certain 506 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,120 sensitivity. It's a sensitivity to your 507 00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:12,560 environment. It's it's an ability to see 508 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,240 what's not there. Without that, you wouldn't be 509 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,280 able to even think about having a business because you would be 510 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,920 able to design. But that same sensitivity also 511 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,360 has some other ramifications. So you're more sensitive to 512 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:29,160 certain impulses and certain not even impulses, currents, certain 513 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,360 currents out there. So things like stress, 514 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:36,160 overwhelm, those are deadly for people like us. 515 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,920 They affect us more and differently than a civilian. 516 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,840 So I did this seven question quiz with these 200 designers to 517 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,000 help them identify are you a creative? 518 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,720 Are you a creative? HSP. 519 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,520 Meaning highly sensitive person or are you a creative empath 520 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,680 which is in more extreme level of that reactivity or 521 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,320 perceptivity? Because Becca, when I say is 522 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,400 sensitive, I don't mean you cry easily. 523 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,520 You might, but that's not the sensitivity I'm talking about. 524 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,120 I mean, it's a reactivity. It's like your radar is just a 525 00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:10,640 little more heightened. So when I did this test and I 526 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,240 said, OK, if you have this many answers, you're this, this many 527 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,920 answers you're that, I said, raise your hand. 528 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,000 If you posted just only as a creative, no hands went up. 529 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,880 Raise your hand. If you test it as a creative 530 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:28,440 slash HSP highly sensitive person, about 6% of the room 531 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,400 raised their hands. Now star K raise your hand. 532 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,560 If you test it as creative empath, which is the most 533 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,080 extreme sense form of that sensitivity or reactivity, the 534 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,480 entire rest of the room, the other 94% of the room raised 535 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,360 their hands. They looked around at each other 536 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,480 and they smiled and they laughed and I giggle. 537 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:52,600 I said hello, my lovely because they didn't know what they were. 538 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,600 So they're trying to run and structure a business, but 539 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,160 ignoring their constitution, who and what they are. 540 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,120 And there are certain built in stresses in any business, not 541 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,840 just our industry, but our industry has several built in 542 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,160 stresses, client service being one of them, several built in 543 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,720 stresses in ours. So I think that the reason 544 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,920 designers is a long winded answer for you, but the reason I 545 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,000 think designers have a hard time with raising rates. 546 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,800 They paralyze themselves with what will somebody else's 547 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,840 reaction be because they're so attuned to everybody's reaction 548 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,760 as opposed to being immune to reactions on that. 549 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,880 I know my rate, I know my value, I know my worth. 550 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,720 If you're the right client for me, I would just love the honor 551 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,200 of designing for you. But if you're not the right 552 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,360 client for me, that's OK too. And I wish you the very best in 553 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,120 your project. And you let the train pull out 554 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,480 of the station so that the right train can pull in. 555 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,960 Yeah. And I say that to you with the 556 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:59,120 caveat of how you and I started our chat just a short while ago. 557 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,320 I'm not a silver Spooner. I didn't have Big Daddy 558 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:07,680 bankrolling everything I had to fly and be successful. 559 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:12,080 But I knew that if I kept undercutting pricing, I knew I'd 560 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,120 never launch a business that could support our family. 561 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,280 And I see that time and time again with the designers who 562 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,880 come to me for coaching when their numbers aren't working. 563 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,200 There are several things that are off for them, but their fees 564 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:30,080 are one of them for sure. Yeah, well, I just love 565 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,280 everything that we've chatted about, and I'm sure the 566 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,560 listeners do, too. We're recording this in the 567 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,600 fall, but I know this episode will come out just after the New 568 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,960 Year's, a happy new year, and you have an Academy that's 569 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,600 coming up in February. So why don't you tell people who 570 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:51,080 would love to get more from you how they can sign up for that? 571 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:52,480 Sure. Yeah. 572 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,040 So we have a small group Academy. 573 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,280 It's a six month Academy. It's online and it's six months 574 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,080 for a reason. I don't believe in these 12 575 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,520 month programs. I don't want to make you a 576 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,200 professional student and I don't want you to be dependent on me. 577 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,560 I want to build your muscle so that you are saying, Don, I've 578 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,080 got this, I'm ready to fly. So I have a six month Academy. 579 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:20,080 It's a combination of recorded videos, but there are live twice 580 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,160 monthly coachings in a small group with me as well. 581 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,960 And every month we lean into the three pillars that are to me the 582 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,560 only pillars that you need to lean into to have a gorgeous 583 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,480 client centric profit proud business. 584 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,120 And that's what I want everyone to have a profit proud business. 585 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:42,360 So those 3 pillars are the pillar of sales and marketing, 586 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,640 the pillars of the business of your business. 587 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,560 That's contracts, that's your scope of work because PS, your 588 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:49,560 scope of work is actually a sales tool. 589 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,520 Yes, it is operations and systemization and it's all part 590 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:56,000 of the business engine, the business of the business. 591 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,640 And then every month we lean just just a snudge, but just the 592 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,440 right amount of snudge into fantastic mindset hacks that 593 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,560 work brilliantly for people like us with that creative brain and 594 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,320 that that reactivity. And it's because of this program 595 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,360 that I have designers coming to me who either say, done, I've 596 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,680 never build more than $5000 a year. 597 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,240 And then in month three with me, they put out a contract for 598 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,760 18,000. And then I also have designers 599 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,320 coming to me saying, you know, one year I built 300,000, the 600 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,040 next year I built 500,000. I'm so uneven. 601 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,280 What do I do? This last round, wonderful 602 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,640 designer Michelle, she booked half $1,000,000 in business 603 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,880 month two or three and working with me between two projects and 604 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,200 that was in April of this past year. 605 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,720 So she totally blew past her numbers. 606 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,560 So I want to see people making the kind of numbers that they 607 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,520 want to make. And because of the way I teach 608 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,120 and the way I've structured this program, it's as appropriate for 609 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,880 people who were in that first nine year trajectory for A7 year 610 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,320 trajectory of growth. And as appropriate for designers 611 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,800 who in their 20 plus years, whose numbers AKA earnings 612 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,160 profit, just not where they need them to be or want them to be. 613 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,120 So I'm thrilled at what we see happening for the design 614 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,440 community. I love our industry and I want 615 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:24,240 to see designers operating as powerful CEOs, be male CEOs, 616 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,440 male CEOs, but not undercutting the value of what they are, the 617 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,320 value of what they do because they're selling a creative 618 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,960 service. Do you have to thread a needle 619 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,360 to monetize creativity? You better believe you do need 620 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,200 to. But that's why I think it's 621 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,480 great to learn from somebody who's like you and who 622 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,640 understands your constitution as well. 623 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,880 So that's kind of a little, I should probably be able to say 624 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,120 that shorter, but I get excited about it. 625 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,440 Yeah. No, that's great. 626 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,720 That's great. So we'll definitely can we have 627 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,640 a link for people to go to your website to sign up. 628 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,040 For it, sure. In fact, if you want, I can. 629 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:03,360 Even if you want to get onto a wait list or to get onto the 630 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,760 mailing list. To get information on this, just 631 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,280 go to. It's long. 632 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:15,639 Sorry about this Successful designbizacademy.com/join now 633 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,080 and kind of Join Now just means get onto the wait list for 634 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,560 information about it. So it's successful. 635 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,639 Design Biz BIZ academy.com/join Now. 636 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,679 Perfect. We'll put a hyperlink to that so 637 00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:30,880 people can just get that even better. 638 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,679 Yeah, that'll be easy. And how can they connect with 639 00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:36,960 you on social? Are you on Instagram? 640 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,000 Yes, if you want my coaching brand, you'd go to Decorating 641 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,800 dot Genius. And if you want to just get 642 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:47,600 inspired with some beautiful luxury design, you can go to at 643 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:55,120 IDH Designs at I like impeccable D like designed H like homes at 644 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,200 IDH Designs. And that's our Instagram for our 645 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,880 luxury design company. Either way, I'd love to see you 646 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,320 there. Wonderful. 647 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,080 Well, thank you, Donna for coming on today. 648 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:06,960 It's been such a great chat. I feel like we kind of touched 649 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,080 the tip of the iceberg with so many topics. 650 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:11,480 There's definitely room for more. 651 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:15,640 So you're welcome to come back anytime and we can discuss more 652 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,560 great things for the creative brain. 653 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,240 Sounds great, I love it. You are wonderful and I love 654 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:23,520 spending time with you. Thanks so much for having me. 655 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,040 O if you'd like to reach out to Donna, we have her contact in 656 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,680 the show notes. And don't forget that we have 657 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:42,840 some great free content for you in our links. 658 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,080 We have some downloads, we have Rd. maps. 659 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,160 We've got also my design Mentor if you are just getting into 660 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,480 coaching. And my design mentor is kind of 661 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,960 like the first step to coaching. It's very approachable, it's 662 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:01,960 affordable, and really is just a great starting place to get your 663 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,200 business running or to get your career switched over to into 664 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,000 your design or just talk with a mentor about interior design 665 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,080 industry. So I'd love to see you in there. 666 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,240 My design mentor and links are in the show notes. 667 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:17,200 That's all I have for you this week. 668 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,600 Next week we'll have another great episode and until then, 669 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,160 stay creative. Thanks for listening. 670 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,520 If you love this episode, please leave a rating and a review. 671 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,240 This helps me reach. Other curious creatives like 672 00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,640 you. If you have a topic request or 673 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,000 would like to contact me, simply head over to my website 674 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:42,320 ourawarddesign.com or e-mail me at podcast@ourawarddesign.com.