Hello and welcome to episode 43 of design.
Curious podcast, I'm your host and Mentor Rebecca Ward today on
the podcast, I have a really fun interview with James bartol, and
before I tell you a little bit more about him, I want to remind
you of my mentorship program. My design Mentor, we are
accepting new members currently through the summer.
I would love for you to get in there.
Get a jump. Start on your career.
With the help of someone who's been there and done that.
So, if that's of interest to you, you can learn more about my
design Mentor in the show notes. You can also find links to those
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I wish I had known before I started my career in interior
design and the roadmap to Interior Design career.
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Alright, let me tell you. A little bit more about James.
James, Bartel is a New York, city-based production designer,
working primarily in the film and television industry.
He received his BFA in film TV production at nyu's Tisch,
School of the Arts, James production design, credits
include a variety of feature and short films that have screened
at festivals worldwide, television print and Commercial
projects include clients and networks such as Nordstrom Estee
Lauder. Wired TruTV investigation,
discovery Bravo. And MTV most recently James has
been sharing his experience with the next generation of
filmmakers as an Adjunct, professor teaching production
design classes at Montclair State University.
And I had such a fun time talking with him about giving to
the Next Generation, which is also something that I believe in
with my mentorship program. And I just really enjoyed
talking with him about set design and film design.
And And really could see in his background that he was
definitely had an eye for design.
He definitely has a flair for the design, but is also great to
talk about the film aspect of it.
So I think you're going to enjoy this conversation and let's hear
from James. You're now listening to design,
curious a place where you creative one are here to learn
about what it really is. Like, to be an interior designer
and I'm your host and Mentor Rebecca, Ward, if you're worried
about how to succeed in a creative career, if you're ready
to learn your next steps to become an Interior Designer.
And if you want the satisfaction of doing something you love
every day, you are in the right place.
Grab a coffee, a notebook. And Let's dig into today's
episode. Hi James.
Welcome to design cures podcast. So great to have you on here.
Thank you so much. It's great to be here.
Thanks for having me. Yeah, and it's great because I
love your industry. I think it's really interesting,
definitely adjacent to interior design and residential design.
And so let's talk about production design.
So how did you get into that and what was your path into that
creative filled? Sure.
Yeah, well, I mean, it started A long, long time ago, as a kid
and I was, you know, lucky to have parents that.
Let me play around with the video camera at home and made a
lot of home movies back in the 90s different time.
But I really knew that I wanted to work in or movies.
And as I started to get older, I got really into theater in high
school and ended up doing a lot of the set design for some high
school productions and my Local children's theater Productions.
Then went to NYU for film really thought that that I wanted to be
a director and then as I was in school, I realized that I was a
little bit more interested in the sort of creating these
visual worlds of films. And once I started to understand
the roles of a production designer, I realized like, okay,
this is where I belong in. This is this is the right field
for me and yeah since then just been working doing Out of film
TV. Also, some commercials some
photoshoots, as well, for advertising and yeah, that's
sort of where I'm at right now. Okay, great.
So, I've talked a lot on the show about like, what interior
designers do, what the roles are.
Could you explain a little more about what the roles of a
production designer is? Yeah, for sure.
So the production designer is sort of concerned with the
overall aesthetic. Look of the film, essentially.
We like to say anything that is on screen that is not isn't the
actors. Everything else, the
environments, the set, the props and just sort of helping to
formulate that look with the director and the
cinematographer. And yeah, it's sort of part of
this. What we call like the Holy
Trinity of the Film Production, the director cinematographer in
the production design in her and the head of the art Department,
Which involves set decorators and props masters painters
Scenic artists. You know it's a huge part of
production and not always given the recognition or the right.
You know, the understanding of what the role is.
But you know I found that to be really fascinating and
fulfilling and you know it's never never a dull moment.
Yeah, I imagine that. It's a very Large and
encompassing type of production because you're not only doing
just like interior set decorating, you're also choosing
locations and everything that comes into view on camera.
So that is, that's a lot of moving parts that you have to
think about very in-depth. There, did you get a degree in
production design then? Or is that a degree that's
offered? Um, yes.
I got a degree in film and TV production and then sort of
concentrated and production. Fine.
Okay. Um, where's some students you
know concentrated at editing or cinematography or even costume
design and sort of taking different paths there, right?
So then in your education did they require you to take any
like art history classes and you know interior design
introduction when our classes just because you're going to be
dealing with a lot of those types of things.
What kind of classes did they have you take?
Yeah, well a lot of Definitely art history classes because so
much of this job involves research especially when you're
working with different time periods.
Also classes in in camera are important because understanding
what different lenses due to the spaces that you create.
It's amazing. What a camera can do to make
spaces feel bigger or smaller more.
Sort of what you design that looks correct with your in
person. Might not look the same on
camera. Often does not look the same.
Okay. Right?
Yeah. And that also encompasses
lighting which as you know as an interior designer is huge and
you know, really Paints the space that you design and create
there's a lot of different elements at play in production
design as with interior design in terms of interior design like
education. I already had like a really
strong interest in that. I didn't need to take any
specific classes for that. I worked for an interior
designer. Through college and after
college and also worked with some apartment stagers, or home
stagers, we have apartments in New York, mostly so.
But, you know, the same thing is a home Stager and definitely
influences my work, and there's so much crossover between the
two. Interesting, so what made you
work with interior designers while you are in college?
Yeah, I've always been really interested in it, just on a
personal level, I have always been concerned with my space.
Aces and my home, you know? And I do think there's so much
crossover, like color theory is really important, as you know.
And I'd also helped me sort of being more aware of different
designer, Styles, different periods, different aesthetic
choices. Also, where to Source a lot of
the props and furniture and what we call set dressing in film it,
you know, helped me become more acquainted with where.
All these pieces come from and Yeah.
Also very fulfilling and has also been a career that I feel.
I would enjoy and and in many ways like I said there's so much
crossover. Yeah, yeah for sure.
Yeah. Do you think you would ever
leave production design and going into interior's I do?
I don't know that I would leave but I think there's definitely a
world where I could do both and be totally.
Yeah, I would be thrilled to do more of that.
I really got a lot out of, you know really enjoy Department
staging and also working for designers.
And it definitely scratches a lot of the same pitches
creatively know. And a lot of production designer
colleagues that I have work in interior design as well or came
from interior design, okay? So they maybe had degrees and
interior design and then they crossed over into that field.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. So you will do the design for
your own home. Is that what I see and your
background here I am at home. Yes, yes.
Thank you. I'm I'm feeling I was very
nervous speaking with a interior designer to be a judge.
I'm a bit of a maximalist if yeah I can.
Yeah. Thank you great.
Yeah so we know that you have experience and interest in
interior design. Are there other areas of design
that have also worked into your creative flow here?
Yeah, as a production designer, a lot of graphic.
Sign comes into play and yeah lighting design to a degree
because we're very, you know, in production design.
And as part of the art Department, we're very
interested in what we call practical lighting, which is any
light source that is seen on camera versus like a movie
light. Sometimes all scenes are lit
just through table lamps and floor lamp considering that, you
know, keeping that sort of design involved in in mind is
super important as well. Yeah, yeah.
For sure. Yeah.
And going back. To when you said how things look
completely different on camera than they do in real life, made
me think of how when we go to photograph projects that we've
completed and I'm there with the photographer and we're looking
through her, camera will start to move the furniture into a
position that we wouldn't normally stage it like that for
the client because it's like floating some odd way in the
middle of the room. But through the camera lens, it
looks proportional and looks like a good Dimension.
So I'm sure you have to consider a lot.
Out of that as you're doing your production designs.
Yeah. Definitely a big one is in one
that took, you know, experience to learn.
And is whenever we hang wall art, you have to hang it about
six inches lower than you might naturally.
Hang it. Yeah.
Which always like looks a little funny but on camera you know.
It looks correct. Yeah.
People tend to hang wall art to high anyways.
Nearly up at the ceiling. Guy came through who was like 65
in hanging all the photos. It's like it seems right to me
that's a good point. What about your personal taste?
I know you said you're a maximalist and how does that
influence Your Design style? I mean, with production design,
you're designing so many different interiors and you
really do have to cater towards, you know, it's always about
story. So sometimes as much as my
personal aesthetic is Is sort of veers towards maximalism, I do
have to, you know, adjust for a character because we might have
a character's home that is, you know, we want to reflect the
traits of the character and help tell that story.
So often that is someone, who is very, who might be very
minimalist or might not be concerned with their home design
or maybe we want to emphasize the sort of like chaos of a
character which, you know, might mean laundry on the floor and
trash bins overflowing. And at the Of the day.
Like I said, you're always supporting story and character
in that way. Yeah, I think that's a
fascinating. Sometimes I'll be watching a
movie or a show or something. And I'm really just like not
paying attention to the story because I'm looking at the set
and thinking about how the designer had a, you know, source
that or put that there, or why they chose that thing, and I get
distracted by us. Sometimes I'm sure most interior
designers do because we're noticing and once in a while
I'll recognize a piece of furniture artwork or something,
that I know where it came from. Like, oh I I know that I've been
quiet in the house. That's great.
I mean that's yeah, that's the interior designer and you, yeah,
sure. Yeah.
What kind of skills do you think are Universal that can cross
over from interior design production designer?
Just design in general? Well, I think when it comes to
production design as compared to Interior Design, speaking about
character earlier, I think it good interior design.
Also tells a story, there's a narrative.
Quality about good interior design and I'm sure you
experience with your clients. You know, you want to make their
home feel like their own versus the cover of a magazine and
picking things that aren't just trendy, but our personalized.
So I'm really interested in in that and how you go to Interior
Design can reflect a narrative, not to mention just The
Narrative of objects and the stories that you know, objects
or certain fabrics and colors. Until and you know I do have a
big interest in Antiques and vintage housewares which really
plays into. We speak a lot about furniture
pieces with character. Yeah.
And I think that's a big interest of mine.
That certainly feeds into my professional work.
Yeah. Have you had friends or family
kind of pick up on your skills and asked to do their houses or
anything like that? Oh yeah.
The time all the time? Yes.
I'm sure you have as well. Yeah, but they'll be out
shopping and they text you like, is this okay for my house?
Exactly. Yes.
Yeah, my mother. And I have that have that
Rapport, although, she has great taste that she always just needs
a backup sometimes but that where you get it from your
creative talent? I think so.
I think that's a big part of it, my parents renovated a, an old
1800s home back when I was a kid and I think that That sort of,
in my dad refinished, a lot of antique furniture and I think
that definitely planted the seed at an early age.
Yeah. Like this is cool and this is,
you know, this is something I'm interested in.
Were you living in that house while they were renovating it?
Yeah. Which was quite it was exciting
as a kid. I think my parents are.
I know my parents were exhausted.
Yeah and we also I'm I'm from rural Maine, which has some
intense weather Especially in the winter it's so so I'm kind
of living in as a home is coming together sort of dealing with
especially with an old house and the old heating systems and
draft the drafty rooms and that sort of thing.
It was a lot of fun and I will look back on that on that house
is a lot of fun. This I'm sure it has spoken into
what you are doing now, just being able to see the house and
it's deconstruction and observe the things and I'm and I could
see See that it probably does play a part in your liking for
antiques and things like that because it's such a historical
house. Would be really interesting to
live in a. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. Definitely said that.
That interested in early age and you were speaking about skills
to. And there's certainly a lot to
be taken from back-and-forth production designed to interior
design. And I have to do a lot of
drafting and floor plans as interior designers, do as well.
Okay? We also do a lot of mood boards
and pulling together swatches. And and like I said it's a lot
of you know a lot of the same skills I think.
And who would be the person you're presenting to then is it
the director and like who gets to decide what looks good?
Yeah, I mean it's always a collaboration but one of the
first things I do and I take a job or even sometimes before I
take a job and have to give sort of a pitch of, you know.
How I would handle these spaces and how I would handle sort of
the overall palette of the film and the aesthetic of the film.
And then sort of starting to zero in on individual sets and,
you know, all the way down to what kind of silverware this
character uses or it's very exciting for me to start with
these sort of like broad Strokes of a design and just sort of
keep filtering in and in but yes to answer your question you sort
of present these Is to a producer or to the producers to
the director often the cinematographer.
But that person is sometimes brought in after you actually.
And just, yeah, it's just constantly a dialogue.
If you are working with great directors, they often trust your
work. You know, you're the
professional and they certainly, you know, you take these notes
and develop the design further and it's a constant
collaboration. It's really exciting.
Exactly. You can't do your work in a
Bubble, you know, you feed off each others ideas and it's all
about visual communication, really?
It's just, how can I put together the most visual pitch
or it's all about showing swatches?
Like I said, and reference images and creating models set
models. And it's all about, you know,
presenting things as visually as possible because as you move
into production, you start to execute those ideas.
And you can't have the director at your side the whole time,
because they're concerned, with actors, and the camera, and
Technical and costume, and all these other things.
So, it's coming up with really concrete design ideas, from the
beginning, getting that sign off.
And then, you know, they sort of trust you to execute with your
own team, of course. Right?
Right. Yeah, I think I would enjoy that
collaborative because I love collaborating with other
designers in my office and You know, look at the clients input
eventually. But yeah, all right with them.
But even like the trades people who have like, the carpenter
will be like, oh what if we build it this way you know and
just like have ideas that I wouldn't even thought of.
So I think that's that's a great approach.
Yeah, for sure. I think it's about yeah.
It like respecting everybody's background and and what they can
contribute that you might, like you said, might not think of
and, and bringing in their own ideas and kind of like growing
It into this like really cool thing that, you know, this is
overall aesthetic. That's that everybody's excited
about. Yeah.
What about budget. So I'm sure just like we deal
with our clients budgets and sometimes they're generous
sometimes they're really tight and so we got to there's
challenges with us. I are you running into that
often or do you feel like you're scrambling to make it come
together, or do you feel like you usually have a pretty good
budget tour? Work with.
I mean, I've worked with all sorts of budgets, as I'm sure
you have too. And I think actually, the
biggest challenge for me is time over budget.
We often talk about the like time money, quality triangle,
like, right to and and but I find time, you know?
If I have time, we can get creative to make things budget
friendly, but if there is no time, you know, sometimes we
have to spend more money just to get The job done.
But I appreciate a little bit of a challenge to and, you know,
how can we make this butter friendly and get the most out of
it but it forces you to be really creative.
Yeah. Constraints really do spark
creativity? Yeah.
So sometimes it's good to have a little bit of a constraint even
though we all wish for the unlimited budgets, it's time to
sure. Yeah, exactly.
Exactly yeah. So what kind of projects are you
working on? On now.
And what have been your favorite up to this point?
Well, I just finished a feature film or rather I finished it
last year, but it just premiered at the South by Southwest
Festival feature film that I'm really excited about and excited
for people to see, you know. Right now it's in sort of early
stages and it'll go around the festival circuit, you know, soon
enough we'll be streaming and yeah, I'm really, it's called
late bloomers. Okay.
Directed by Lisa stain and it's Out this sort of millennial
woman who's kind of a mess, she's trying to figure her life
out and ends up drunkenly breaking her hip in an accident
and ends up in physical therapy, with an older woman, who doesn't
speak English. And the film is, it takes place
in here in New York City and it deals with a lot of topics, sort
of and theme sort of, you know, you're found, Emily here in a in
the city and and what that's like and also a little bit of
gentrification. And yeah, I'm really excited for
people to see it. I just saw it for the first time
at the festival which is always a little nerve-racking, but it
was, it was very satisfying. Yeah, you were satisfied with
your work too. I'm sure that is nerve-racking
to see like how it really comes together after they've edited it
and you know down whatever they need to do this.
Make sure that your designs have.
Held up to oh yeah. And you have to be mentally
prepared for like oh that one set that I spent all that time
and lost all that sleepover doesn't make it more.
Yeah, you know a certain shots that you know, sometimes you
only see one half of the room that you spend all this time on
and and but you kind of have to just resign to that and
understand that's like you know, this is what this story needed.
And then yeah the end of the day.
It's not a Showcase of your Design so much as just doing
what needs to happen to tell this story.
But of course you know, like you said when you watch when you
watch movies or TV, just honing in on these little design
details. And so I'm often seeing things
or my mistakes or maybe two things, I would have done better
but nobody else has is paying attention to but that wasn't the
case with this movie. So yeah, that happens in
Interiors to you'll be like you know pretty much finished the
project and there might be something you're like well I
would have preferred This fabric that is out of stock.
So we had to do this one and you know, like nobody's going to
know the difference but you do as the designer you could see
the potential but it's really not going to make a difference
and in the final product but I'm sure you learn a lot from that
also. Yeah, it's just, you know, I
think it's always valuable if you can pull away from a project
and say, okay well I you know I I keep a little journal and
after every project that I work on or even during the project I,
you know, sir Take notes of like, okay, well, you know, in
the future I should, you know, I would do it this way and like,
this worked really well, but maybe they're sort of, just,
like a way to keep track of opportunities for growth in the
future. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I have this document a living document called Lessons
Learned for each project and so like always something that I'm
learning every time I have a project and I've been doing it
for 15 years but there's always a new scenario that happens and
so sorry. I like to keep track of that.
So I'm not repeating my mistakes, you know.
Yeah, yeah. I think that's what's so
exciting about the work that we do is it's it is always
different. We have our own processes but
have to tailor your work to the project and to the people you're
working with but I think that's really exciting part of the fun
of it. Mmm.
Yeah. So your bio says that you're
starting to share your experience with next-generation
filmmakers and so tell us a little about that Journey.
Like you're starting to are you mentoring or just speaking
around? Yes.
I'm actually teaching undergrad classes at Montclair State
University over in Jersey. I sort of just kind of happened
upon it. Last spring semester, so spring
of 2022 and sort of fell into it.
Our colleague friend of a friend sort of recommended me for it
and I thought well I don't know, you know, I've not really done
any teaching, but I do like working.
With young people and I thought, well, you know, and generally
the film industry at least here in New York, is a little bit
slower in the winter and the early spring just because the
days are shorter and it's gets very cold and the work is a
little bit sparse. So I thought, you know, I have
time to do this and why not? Try it.
And I, you know, I went in not knowing how it was going to turn
out or if I'd be any good at it, or if I would enjoy it, but I I
really got so much. Much out of it and it it got me
excited about the work again to. Yeah, because it's it's easy to
get, I don't want to say discouraged but you've done
interior design for 15 years and it can get really exhausting.
And, and teaching really kind of invigorated, those interests for
me again, and I going through my old school books and notes and
things I thought unit and especially reviewing films eye
and seeing the students get really About it.
I thought this is the I really just was reminded of like this
is why I really love the work and I know I'm doing it.
I'm teaching again. This they asked me back.
So I am back this spring and teaching again and learned from
my experience last year and yeah it's really it's really
gratifying and I'm really enjoying it a lot.
I don't know if it's something that I'll, you know, I don't
know how long I'll be doing it or it right now.
It's perfect for me and I'm enjoying it.
Wonderful. Yeah.
That's really great. It's good to be reminded of your
why when things are tough or like you've been doing it a long
time and you just kind of lose a little focus on your career and
you're like oh yeah this is why I'm doing it.
This is why I love design and get really inspired by it again
is always a fun experience. Yeah and I'm sure you doing this
podcast and talking with people. I'm sure you get a lot of that
same energy and excitement. That hats.
Yeah, really cool. Yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you for all the great information about
production design. Any last-minute, advice for a
creative thinking about doing a career of design, like what,
what would you recommend for them?
Well, I think I would say just jump in and start doing it and
that could start at a personal level and your own, you know, in
your own home in your own spaces.
I think that's a good way to build up a portfolio.
Folio and take pictures. And obviously there's a lot of
great reading material out there and a lot of greats.
Yeah, education available, oh, but I do think that the best way
to do it is just to jump in and and start to keep kind of my
skills fresh. I will often do sort of just
like concepts for films that don't exist or projects that
won't be realized, but it's just like a good way to kind of, you
know, strengthen those, those muscles in that next.
Set a little bit. And and I think that's that
would be. My advice is just jump in there
and do a bed and and learn learn as you go.
Yeah. Yeah.
There's always stop. You're gonna learn along the
way. So, just get started now.
Yeah. Yeah, I think I think that's
true. Yeah, well, that's great.
Well, thank you so much James. It's been a pleasure talking
with you. Yeah, you too.
I enjoy listening to the podcast.
So I mean, again, I'm I appreciate you having me on.
Yeah, great. Well, you're welcome.
Welcome to come back anytime and we'll talk to you again later.
All right. Sounds great.
Thank you. So that was such a fun
conversation. I really enjoyed having James on
the podcast and hopefully we can follow his progress in his
career and just kind of keep tabs on how he's giving back to
the Next Generation in the influence that he can have so
fun. So don't forget again that
you're going to want to leave a review of the podcast.
Where you listen to podcasts. You can leave a review there.
Take it. In shot of it and send it to me
so that you can get your code for that Master Class.
That Erica sore is offering, and don't forget to sign up for my
design mentor, and get your free downloads and all the things.
And next week, we will continue our summer series.
Having more interviews than just me talking, which is kind of
fun. So we'll have another great
interview next week and until then stay creative, thanks for
listening if You loved this episode.
Please leave a rating and a review.
This helps me reach other curious.
Creatives. Like you.
If you have a topic request or would like to contact me, simply
head over to my website, our Ward design.com or email me at
podcast at our Ward design.com. You loved this episode.
Please leave a rating and a review.
This helps me reach other curious.
Creatives. Like you.
If you have a topic request or would like to contact me, simply
head over to my website, our Ward design.com or email me at
podcast at our Ward design.com.