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Hello and welcome to episode 43 
of design. 

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Curious podcast, I'm your host 
and Mentor Rebecca Ward today on

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the podcast, I have a really fun
interview with James bartol, and

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before I tell you a little bit 
more about him, I want to remind

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you of my mentorship program. 
My design Mentor, we are 

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accepting new members currently 
through the summer. 

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I would love for you to get in 
there. 

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Get a jump. 
Start on your career. 

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With the help of someone who's 
been there and done that. 

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So, if that's of interest to 
you, you can learn more about my

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design Mentor in the show notes.
You can also find links to those

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downloads that I offer the three
things. 

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I wish I had known before I 
started my career in interior 

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design and the roadmap to 
Interior Design career. 

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Both of those are really helpful
and then you get put on the 

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mailing list so you won't miss 
an episode, it comes straight to

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your inbox every week along with
other information and bonus. 

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Well, that I like to put in 
there. 

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Also, don't forget about the 
promotion that we have for the 

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Now you'll remember Erica was on

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marketing. 
So you're going to go back and 

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listen to that episode. 
And then I would love for you to

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leave a review of the podcast on
Apple podcasts or pod Chaser. 

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And When you do and you 
screenshot that and email me or 

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post it on Instagram and tag me,
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If you're interested, you can 
find information about the 

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course in the show notes links. 
And in exchange for that review,

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you'll get that coupon code. 
So don't forget to do that. 

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Alright, let me tell you. 
A little bit more about James. 

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James, Bartel is a New York, 
city-based production designer, 

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working primarily in the film 
and television industry. 

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He received his BFA in film TV 
production at nyu's Tisch, 

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School of the Arts, James 
production design, credits 

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include a variety of feature and
short films that have screened 

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at festivals worldwide, 
television print and Commercial 

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projects include clients and 
networks such as Nordstrom Estee

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Lauder. 
Wired TruTV investigation, 

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discovery Bravo. 
And MTV most recently James has 

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been sharing his experience with
the next generation of 

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filmmakers as an Adjunct, 
professor teaching production 

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design classes at Montclair 
State University. 

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And I had such a fun time 
talking with him about giving to

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the Next Generation, which is 
also something that I believe in

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with my mentorship program. 
And I just really enjoyed 

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talking with him about set 
design and film design. 

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And And really could see in his 
background that he was 

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definitely had an eye for 
design. 

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He definitely has a flair for 
the design, but is also great to

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talk about the film aspect of 
it. 

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So I think you're going to enjoy
this conversation and let's hear

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from James. 
You're now listening to design, 

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curious a place where you 
creative one are here to learn 

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about what it really is. 
Like, to be an interior designer

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and I'm your host and Mentor 
Rebecca, Ward, if you're worried

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about how to succeed in a 
creative career, if you're ready

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to learn your next steps to 
become an Interior Designer. 

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And if you want the satisfaction
of doing something you love 

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every day, you are in the right 
place. 

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Grab a coffee, a notebook. 
And Let's dig into today's 

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episode. 
Hi James. 

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Welcome to design cures podcast.
So great to have you on here. 

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Thank you so much. 
It's great to be here. 

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Thanks for having me. 
Yeah, and it's great because I 

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love your industry. 
I think it's really interesting,

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definitely adjacent to interior 
design and residential design. 

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And so let's talk about 
production design. 

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So how did you get into that and
what was your path into that 

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creative filled? 
Sure. 

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Yeah, well, I mean, it started A
long, long time ago, as a kid 

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and I was, you know, lucky to 
have parents that. 

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Let me play around with the 
video camera at home and made a 

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lot of home movies back in the 
90s different time. 

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But I really knew that I wanted 
to work in or movies. 

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And as I started to get older, I
got really into theater in high 

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school and ended up doing a lot 
of the set design for some high 

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school productions and my Local 
children's theater Productions. 

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Then went to NYU for film really
thought that that I wanted to be

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a director and then as I was in 
school, I realized that I was a 

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little bit more interested in 
the sort of creating these 

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visual worlds of films. 
And once I started to understand

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the roles of a production 
designer, I realized like, okay,

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this is where I belong in. 
This is this is the right field 

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for me and yeah since then just 
been working doing Out of film 

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TV. 
Also, some commercials some 

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photoshoots, as well, for 
advertising and yeah, that's 

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sort of where I'm at right now. 
Okay, great. 

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So, I've talked a lot on the 
show about like, what interior 

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designers do, what the roles 
are. 

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Could you explain a little more 
about what the roles of a 

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production designer is? 
Yeah, for sure. 

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So the production designer is 
sort of concerned with the 

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overall aesthetic. 
Look of the film, essentially. 

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We like to say anything that is 
on screen that is not isn't the 

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actors. 
Everything else, the 

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environments, the set, the props
and just sort of helping to 

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formulate that look with the 
director and the 

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cinematographer. 
And yeah, it's sort of part of 

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this. 
What we call like the Holy 

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Trinity of the Film Production, 
the director cinematographer in 

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the production design in her and
the head of the art Department, 

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Which involves set decorators 
and props masters painters 

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Scenic artists. 
You know it's a huge part of 

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production and not always given 
the recognition or the right. 

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You know, the understanding of 
what the role is. 

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But you know I found that to be 
really fascinating and 

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fulfilling and you know it's 
never never a dull moment. 

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Yeah, I imagine that. 
It's a very Large and 

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encompassing type of production 
because you're not only doing 

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just like interior set 
decorating, you're also choosing

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locations and everything that 
comes into view on camera. 

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So that is, that's a lot of 
moving parts that you have to 

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think about very in-depth. 
There, did you get a degree in 

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production design then? 
Or is that a degree that's 

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offered? 
Um, yes. 

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I got a degree in film and TV 
production and then sort of 

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concentrated and production. 
Fine. 

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Okay. 
Um, where's some students you 

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know concentrated at editing or 
cinematography or even costume 

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design and sort of taking 
different paths there, right? 

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So then in your education did 
they require you to take any 

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like art history classes and you
know interior design 

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introduction when our classes 
just because you're going to be 

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dealing with a lot of those 
types of things. 

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What kind of classes did they 
have you take? 

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Yeah, well a lot of Definitely 
art history classes because so 

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much of this job involves 
research especially when you're 

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working with different time 
periods. 

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Also classes in in camera are 
important because understanding 

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what different lenses due to the
spaces that you create. 

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It's amazing. 
What a camera can do to make 

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spaces feel bigger or smaller 
more. 

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Sort of what you design that 
looks correct with your in 

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person. 
Might not look the same on 

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camera. 
Often does not look the same. 

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Okay. 
Right? 

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Yeah. 
And that also encompasses 

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lighting which as you know as an
interior designer is huge and 

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you know, really Paints the 
space that you design and create

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there's a lot of different 
elements at play in production 

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design as with interior design 
in terms of interior design like

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education. 
I already had like a really 

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strong interest in that. 
I didn't need to take any 

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specific classes for that. 
I worked for an interior 

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designer. 
Through college and after 

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college and also worked with 
some apartment stagers, or home 

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stagers, we have apartments in 
New York, mostly so. 

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But, you know, the same thing is
a home Stager and definitely 

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influences my work, and there's 
so much crossover between the 

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two. 
Interesting, so what made you 

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work with interior designers 
while you are in college? 

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Yeah, I've always been really 
interested in it, just on a 

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personal level, I have always 
been concerned with my space. 

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Aces and my home, you know? 
And I do think there's so much 

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crossover, like color theory is 
really important, as you know. 

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And I'd also helped me sort of 
being more aware of different 

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designer, Styles, different 
periods, different aesthetic 

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choices. 
Also, where to Source a lot of 

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the props and furniture and what
we call set dressing in film it,

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you know, helped me become more 
acquainted with where. 

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All these pieces come from and 
Yeah. 

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Also very fulfilling and has 
also been a career that I feel. 

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I would enjoy and and in many 
ways like I said there's so much

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crossover. 
Yeah, yeah for sure. 

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Yeah. 
Do you think you would ever 

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leave production design and 
going into interior's I do? 

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I don't know that I would leave 
but I think there's definitely a

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world where I could do both and 
be totally. 

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Yeah, I would be thrilled to do 
more of that. 

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I really got a lot out of, you 
know really enjoy Department 

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staging and also working for 
designers. 

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And it definitely scratches a 
lot of the same pitches 

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creatively know. 
And a lot of production designer

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colleagues that I have work in 
interior design as well or came 

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from interior design, okay? 
So they maybe had degrees and 

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interior design and then they 
crossed over into that field. 

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Yeah, absolutely, yeah. 
So you will do the design for 

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your own home. 
Is that what I see and your 

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background here I am at home. 
Yes, yes. 

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Thank you. 
I'm I'm feeling I was very 

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nervous speaking with a interior
designer to be a judge. 

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I'm a bit of a maximalist if 
yeah I can. 

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Yeah. 
Thank you great. 

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00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:43,700
Yeah so we know that you have 
experience and interest in 

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interior design. 
Are there other areas of design 

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that have also worked into your 
creative flow here? 

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Yeah, as a production designer, 
a lot of graphic. 

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Sign comes into play and yeah 
lighting design to a degree 

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because we're very, you know, in
production design. 

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And as part of the art 
Department, we're very 

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interested in what we call 
practical lighting, which is any

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light source that is seen on 
camera versus like a movie 

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light. 
Sometimes all scenes are lit 

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just through table lamps and 
floor lamp considering that, you

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know, keeping that sort of 
design involved in in mind is 

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super important as well. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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For sure. 
Yeah. 

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And going back. 
To when you said how things look

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completely different on camera 
than they do in real life, made 

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me think of how when we go to 
photograph projects that we've 

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completed and I'm there with the
photographer and we're looking 

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through her, camera will start 
to move the furniture into a 

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position that we wouldn't 
normally stage it like that for 

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the client because it's like 
floating some odd way in the 

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middle of the room. 
But through the camera lens, it 

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looks proportional and looks 
like a good Dimension. 

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So I'm sure you have to consider
a lot. 

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Out of that as you're doing your
production designs. 

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Yeah. 
Definitely a big one is in one 

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that took, you know, experience 
to learn. 

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And is whenever we hang wall 
art, you have to hang it about 

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six inches lower than you might 
naturally. 

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Hang it. 
Yeah. 

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Which always like looks a little
funny but on camera you know. 

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It looks correct. 
Yeah. 

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People tend to hang wall art to 
high anyways. 

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Nearly up at the ceiling. 
Guy came through who was like 65

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in hanging all the photos. 
It's like it seems right to me 

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00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:36,600
that's a good point. 
What about your personal taste? 

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00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:38,600
I know you said you're a 
maximalist and how does that 

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00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,300
influence Your Design style? 
I mean, with production design, 

235
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you're designing so many 
different interiors and you 

236
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really do have to cater towards,
you know, it's always about 

237
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story. 
So sometimes as much as my 

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personal aesthetic is Is sort of
veers towards maximalism, I do 

239
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have to, you know, adjust for a 
character because we might have 

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a character's home that is, you 
know, we want to reflect the 

241
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traits of the character and help
tell that story. 

242
00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:11,600
So often that is someone, who is
very, who might be very 

243
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,600
minimalist or might not be 
concerned with their home design

244
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,300
or maybe we want to emphasize 
the sort of like chaos of a 

245
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:22,400
character which, you know, might
mean laundry on the floor and 

246
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,000
trash bins overflowing. 
And at the Of the day. 

247
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Like I said, you're always 
supporting story and character 

248
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,800
in that way. 
Yeah, I think that's a 

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fascinating. 
Sometimes I'll be watching a 

250
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movie or a show or something. 
And I'm really just like not 

251
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paying attention to the story 
because I'm looking at the set 

252
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,500
and thinking about how the 
designer had a, you know, source

253
00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:43,900
that or put that there, or why 
they chose that thing, and I get

254
00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:46,400
distracted by us. 
Sometimes I'm sure most interior

255
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,800
designers do because we're 
noticing and once in a while 

256
00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,300
I'll recognize a piece of 
furniture artwork or something, 

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00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:55,800
that I know where it came from. 
Like, oh I I know that I've been

258
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,600
quiet in the house. 
That's great. 

259
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,900
I mean that's yeah, that's the 
interior designer and you, yeah,

260
00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:04,000
sure. 
Yeah. 

261
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,400
What kind of skills do you think
are Universal that can cross 

262
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:10,900
over from interior design 
production designer? 

263
00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:14,100
Just design in general? 
Well, I think when it comes to 

264
00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:18,200
production design as compared to
Interior Design, speaking about 

265
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,600
character earlier, I think it 
good interior design. 

266
00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:24,400
Also tells a story, there's a 
narrative. 

267
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,800
Quality about good interior 
design and I'm sure you 

268
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,500
experience with your clients. 
You know, you want to make their

269
00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:35,900
home feel like their own versus 
the cover of a magazine and 

270
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,600
picking things that aren't just 
trendy, but our personalized. 

271
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:42,700
So I'm really interested in in 
that and how you go to Interior 

272
00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:46,700
Design can reflect a narrative, 
not to mention just The 

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00:15:46,700 --> 00:15:51,600
Narrative of objects and the 
stories that you know, objects 

274
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:57,100
or certain fabrics and colors. 
Until and you know I do have a 

275
00:15:57,108 --> 00:16:02,100
big interest in Antiques and 
vintage housewares which really 

276
00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:05,400
plays into. 
We speak a lot about furniture 

277
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,100
pieces with character. 
Yeah. 

278
00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:09,000
And I think that's a big 
interest of mine. 

279
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,900
That certainly feeds into my 
professional work. 

280
00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:15,900
Yeah. 
Have you had friends or family 

281
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,600
kind of pick up on your skills 
and asked to do their houses or 

282
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,900
anything like that? 
Oh yeah. 

283
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:24,400
The time all the time? 
Yes. 

284
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,700
I'm sure you have as well. 
Yeah, but they'll be out 

285
00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:30,700
shopping and they text you like,
is this okay for my house? 

286
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:33,200
Exactly. 
Yes. 

287
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,500
Yeah, my mother. 
And I have that have that 

288
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:39,800
Rapport, although, she has great
taste that she always just needs

289
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,100
a backup sometimes but that 
where you get it from your 

290
00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:45,600
creative talent? 
I think so. 

291
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,300
I think that's a big part of it,
my parents renovated a, an old 

292
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:55,200
1800s home back when I was a kid
and I think that That sort of, 

293
00:16:55,300 --> 00:17:00,000
in my dad refinished, a lot of 
antique furniture and I think 

294
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,300
that definitely planted the seed
at an early age. 

295
00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:06,200
Yeah. 
Like this is cool and this is, 

296
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,800
you know, this is something I'm 
interested in. 

297
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,300
Were you living in that house 
while they were renovating it? 

298
00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:15,099
Yeah. 
Which was quite it was exciting 

299
00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:16,700
as a kid. 
I think my parents are. 

300
00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:18,400
I know my parents were 
exhausted. 

301
00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:23,800
Yeah and we also I'm I'm from 
rural Maine, which has some 

302
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,400
intense weather Especially in 
the winter it's so so I'm kind 

303
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,800
of living in as a home is coming
together sort of dealing with 

304
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,300
especially with an old house and
the old heating systems and 

305
00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:39,400
draft the drafty rooms and that 
sort of thing. 

306
00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:43,700
It was a lot of fun and I will 
look back on that on that house 

307
00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:47,900
is a lot of fun. 
This I'm sure it has spoken into

308
00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:50,700
what you are doing now, just 
being able to see the house and 

309
00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:54,200
it's deconstruction and observe 
the things and I'm and I could 

310
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,100
see See that it probably does 
play a part in your liking for 

311
00:17:58,100 --> 00:18:01,200
antiques and things like that 
because it's such a historical 

312
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,000
house. 
Would be really interesting to 

313
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,400
live in a. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

314
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,600
Absolutely. 
Definitely said that. 

315
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,500
That interested in early age and
you were speaking about skills 

316
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:14,000
to. 
And there's certainly a lot to 

317
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:17,100
be taken from back-and-forth 
production designed to interior 

318
00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:18,900
design. 
And I have to do a lot of 

319
00:18:18,900 --> 00:18:23,900
drafting and floor plans as 
interior designers, do as well. 

320
00:18:23,900 --> 00:18:26,800
Okay? 
We also do a lot of mood boards 

321
00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:31,900
and pulling together swatches. 
And and like I said it's a lot 

322
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:34,500
of you know a lot of the same 
skills I think. 

323
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,100
And who would be the person 
you're presenting to then is it 

324
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:42,100
the director and like who gets 
to decide what looks good? 

325
00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:46,600
Yeah, I mean it's always a 
collaboration but one of the 

326
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,300
first things I do and I take a 
job or even sometimes before I 

327
00:18:50,308 --> 00:18:54,300
take a job and have to give sort
of a pitch of, you know. 

328
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:58,500
How I would handle these spaces 
and how I would handle sort of 

329
00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:03,700
the overall palette of the film 
and the aesthetic of the film. 

330
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,500
And then sort of starting to 
zero in on individual sets and, 

331
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:12,000
you know, all the way down to 
what kind of silverware this 

332
00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:16,200
character uses or it's very 
exciting for me to start with 

333
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,400
these sort of like broad Strokes
of a design and just sort of 

334
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,300
keep filtering in and in but yes
to answer your question you sort

335
00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:27,300
of present these Is to a 
producer or to the producers to 

336
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,800
the director often the 
cinematographer. 

337
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,200
But that person is sometimes 
brought in after you actually. 

338
00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:37,700
And just, yeah, it's just 
constantly a dialogue. 

339
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,300
If you are working with great 
directors, they often trust your

340
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:43,200
work. 
You know, you're the 

341
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,700
professional and they certainly,
you know, you take these notes 

342
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,800
and develop the design further 
and it's a constant 

343
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,500
collaboration. 
It's really exciting. 

344
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,300
Exactly. 
You can't do your work in a 

345
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:58,700
Bubble, you know, you feed off 
each others ideas and it's all 

346
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:01,200
about visual communication, 
really? 

347
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:07,400
It's just, how can I put 
together the most visual pitch 

348
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,700
or it's all about showing 
swatches? 

349
00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:15,000
Like I said, and reference 
images and creating models set 

350
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,600
models. 
And it's all about, you know, 

351
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,400
presenting things as visually as
possible because as you move 

352
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,300
into production, you start to 
execute those ideas. 

353
00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:28,300
And you can't have the director 
at your side the whole time, 

354
00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:31,900
because they're concerned, with 
actors, and the camera, and 

355
00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:35,100
Technical and costume, and all 
these other things. 

356
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:39,200
So, it's coming up with really 
concrete design ideas, from the 

357
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,700
beginning, getting that sign 
off. 

358
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,800
And then, you know, they sort of
trust you to execute with your 

359
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,500
own team, of course. 
Right? 

360
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,700
Right. 
Yeah, I think I would enjoy that

361
00:20:49,700 --> 00:20:52,400
collaborative because I love 
collaborating with other 

362
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:56,200
designers in my office and You 
know, look at the clients input 

363
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,800
eventually. 
But yeah, all right with them. 

364
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,800
But even like the trades people 
who have like, the carpenter 

365
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,400
will be like, oh what if we 
build it this way you know and 

366
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,000
just like have ideas that I 
wouldn't even thought of. 

367
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,600
So I think that's that's a great
approach. 

368
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,200
Yeah, for sure. 
I think it's about yeah. 

369
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,700
It like respecting everybody's 
background and and what they can

370
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:20,100
contribute that you might, like 
you said, might not think of 

371
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:24,300
and, and bringing in their own 
ideas and kind of like growing 

372
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:29,400
It into this like really cool 
thing that, you know, this is 

373
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,700
overall aesthetic. 
That's that everybody's excited 

374
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:34,000
about. 
Yeah. 

375
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:37,500
What about budget. 
So I'm sure just like we deal 

376
00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:41,000
with our clients budgets and 
sometimes they're generous 

377
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:45,000
sometimes they're really tight 
and so we got to there's 

378
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,200
challenges with us. 
I are you running into that 

379
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,800
often or do you feel like you're
scrambling to make it come 

380
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,800
together, or do you feel like 
you usually have a pretty good 

381
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:54,900
budget tour? 
Work with. 

382
00:21:55,300 --> 00:21:58,500
I mean, I've worked with all 
sorts of budgets, as I'm sure 

383
00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:00,600
you have too. 
And I think actually, the 

384
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:05,000
biggest challenge for me is time
over budget. 

385
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,700
We often talk about the like 
time money, quality triangle, 

386
00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:15,300
like, right to and and but I 
find time, you know? 

387
00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:19,200
If I have time, we can get 
creative to make things budget 

388
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,300
friendly, but if there is no 
time, you know, sometimes we 

389
00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:25,100
have to spend more money just to
get The job done. 

390
00:22:25,100 --> 00:22:28,800
But I appreciate a little bit of
a challenge to and, you know, 

391
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,200
how can we make this butter 
friendly and get the most out of

392
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,500
it but it forces you to be 
really creative. 

393
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,600
Yeah. 
Constraints really do spark 

394
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,200
creativity? 
Yeah. 

395
00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:44,400
So sometimes it's good to have a
little bit of a constraint even 

396
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,500
though we all wish for the 
unlimited budgets, it's time to 

397
00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:50,200
sure. 
Yeah, exactly. 

398
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,500
Exactly yeah. 
So what kind of projects are you

399
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:54,900
working on? 
On now. 

400
00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:57,900
And what have been your favorite
up to this point? 

401
00:22:58,300 --> 00:23:02,100
Well, I just finished a feature 
film or rather I finished it 

402
00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:05,300
last year, but it just premiered
at the South by Southwest 

403
00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:10,000
Festival feature film that I'm 
really excited about and excited

404
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,900
for people to see, you know. 
Right now it's in sort of early 

405
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:17,300
stages and it'll go around the 
festival circuit, you know, soon

406
00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:20,300
enough we'll be streaming and 
yeah, I'm really, it's called 

407
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:22,000
late bloomers. 
Okay. 

408
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:27,800
Directed by Lisa stain and it's 
Out this sort of millennial 

409
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:33,200
woman who's kind of a mess, 
she's trying to figure her life 

410
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:38,200
out and ends up drunkenly 
breaking her hip in an accident 

411
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,900
and ends up in physical therapy,
with an older woman, who doesn't

412
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:46,300
speak English. 
And the film is, it takes place 

413
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:51,500
in here in New York City and it 
deals with a lot of topics, sort

414
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:56,200
of and theme sort of, you know, 
you're found, Emily here in a in

415
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,200
the city and and what that's 
like and also a little bit of 

416
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,200
gentrification. 
And yeah, I'm really excited for

417
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,800
people to see it. 
I just saw it for the first time

418
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,500
at the festival which is always 
a little nerve-racking, but it 

419
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:14,100
was, it was very satisfying. 
Yeah, you were satisfied with 

420
00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:16,600
your work too. 
I'm sure that is nerve-racking 

421
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,400
to see like how it really comes 
together after they've edited it

422
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,900
and you know down whatever they 
need to do this. 

423
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:24,200
Make sure that your designs 
have. 

424
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:28,700
Held up to oh yeah. 
And you have to be mentally 

425
00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:32,500
prepared for like oh that one 
set that I spent all that time 

426
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:36,000
and lost all that sleepover 
doesn't make it more. 

427
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,100
Yeah, you know a certain shots 
that you know, sometimes you 

428
00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:43,600
only see one half of the room 
that you spend all this time on 

429
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,400
and and but you kind of have to 
just resign to that and 

430
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,000
understand that's like you know,
this is what this story needed. 

431
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,600
And then yeah the end of the 
day. 

432
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,500
It's not a Showcase of your 
Design so much as just doing 

433
00:24:56,500 --> 00:24:59,400
what needs to happen to tell 
this story. 

434
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,000
But of course you know, like you
said when you watch when you 

435
00:25:02,008 --> 00:25:05,700
watch movies or TV, just honing 
in on these little design 

436
00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:08,300
details. 
And so I'm often seeing things 

437
00:25:08,300 --> 00:25:11,100
or my mistakes or maybe two 
things, I would have done better

438
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:15,900
but nobody else has is paying 
attention to but that wasn't the

439
00:25:15,908 --> 00:25:18,100
case with this movie. 
So yeah, that happens in 

440
00:25:18,100 --> 00:25:21,100
Interiors to you'll be like you 
know pretty much finished the 

441
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:23,500
project and there might be 
something you're like well I 

442
00:25:23,508 --> 00:25:25,800
would have preferred This fabric
that is out of stock. 

443
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,600
So we had to do this one and you
know, like nobody's going to 

444
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,700
know the difference but you do 
as the designer you could see 

445
00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:35,600
the potential but it's really 
not going to make a difference 

446
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:40,200
and in the final product but I'm
sure you learn a lot from that 

447
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,400
also. 
Yeah, it's just, you know, I 

448
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,400
think it's always valuable if 
you can pull away from a project

449
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,800
and say, okay well I you know I 
I keep a little journal and 

450
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,600
after every project that I work 
on or even during the project I,

451
00:25:53,700 --> 00:25:56,000
you know, sir Take notes of 
like, okay, well, you know, in 

452
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,800
the future I should, you know, I
would do it this way and like, 

453
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,900
this worked really well, but 
maybe they're sort of, just, 

454
00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:05,300
like a way to keep track of 
opportunities for growth in the 

455
00:26:05,308 --> 00:26:07,000
future. 
Yeah, for sure. 

456
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,500
Yeah, I have this document a 
living document called Lessons 

457
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:15,000
Learned for each project and so 
like always something that I'm 

458
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,400
learning every time I have a 
project and I've been doing it 

459
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:22,200
for 15 years but there's always 
a new scenario that happens and 

460
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,200
so sorry. 
I like to keep track of that. 

461
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,000
So I'm not repeating my 
mistakes, you know. 

462
00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:29,000
Yeah, yeah. 
I think that's what's so 

463
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,800
exciting about the work that we 
do is it's it is always 

464
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,500
different. 
We have our own processes but 

465
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,600
have to tailor your work to the 
project and to the people you're

466
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,300
working with but I think that's 
really exciting part of the fun 

467
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:43,500
of it. 
Mmm. 

468
00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:46,600
Yeah. 
So your bio says that you're 

469
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,200
starting to share your 
experience with next-generation 

470
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,200
filmmakers and so tell us a 
little about that Journey. 

471
00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:58,300
Like you're starting to are you 
mentoring or just speaking 

472
00:26:58,300 --> 00:26:59,900
around? 
Yes. 

473
00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:03,800
I'm actually teaching undergrad 
classes at Montclair State 

474
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,300
University over in Jersey. 
I sort of just kind of happened 

475
00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:11,400
upon it. 
Last spring semester, so spring 

476
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,500
of 2022 and sort of fell into 
it. 

477
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:18,700
Our colleague friend of a friend
sort of recommended me for it 

478
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:21,200
and I thought well I don't know,
you know, I've not really done 

479
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,200
any teaching, but I do like 
working. 

480
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,200
With young people and I thought,
well, you know, and generally 

481
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,700
the film industry at least here 
in New York, is a little bit 

482
00:27:31,700 --> 00:27:35,700
slower in the winter and the 
early spring just because the 

483
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:39,900
days are shorter and it's gets 
very cold and the work is a 

484
00:27:39,908 --> 00:27:41,400
little bit sparse. 
So I thought, you know, I have 

485
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,200
time to do this and why not? 
Try it. 

486
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,800
And I, you know, I went in not 
knowing how it was going to turn

487
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,200
out or if I'd be any good at it,
or if I would enjoy it, but I I 

488
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,700
really got so much. 
Much out of it and it it got me 

489
00:27:56,700 --> 00:28:01,000
excited about the work again to.
Yeah, because it's it's easy to 

490
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,900
get, I don't want to say 
discouraged but you've done 

491
00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:08,400
interior design for 15 years and
it can get really exhausting. 

492
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:13,700
And, and teaching really kind of
invigorated, those interests for

493
00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:18,100
me again, and I going through my
old school books and notes and 

494
00:28:18,100 --> 00:28:22,100
things I thought unit and 
especially reviewing films eye 

495
00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:24,800
and seeing the students get 
really About it. 

496
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,000
I thought this is the I really 
just was reminded of like this 

497
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,500
is why I really love the work 
and I know I'm doing it. 

498
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:33,600
I'm teaching again. 
This they asked me back. 

499
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:39,100
So I am back this spring and 
teaching again and learned from 

500
00:28:39,300 --> 00:28:43,800
my experience last year and yeah
it's really it's really 

501
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,400
gratifying and I'm really 
enjoying it a lot. 

502
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,600
I don't know if it's something 
that I'll, you know, I don't 

503
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,000
know how long I'll be doing it 
or it right now. 

504
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,800
It's perfect for me and I'm 
enjoying it. 

505
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:55,400
Wonderful. 
Yeah. 

506
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,700
That's really great. 
It's good to be reminded of your

507
00:28:58,700 --> 00:29:03,400
why when things are tough or 
like you've been doing it a long

508
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,900
time and you just kind of lose a
little focus on your career and 

509
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:09,100
you're like oh yeah this is why 
I'm doing it. 

510
00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:14,300
This is why I love design and 
get really inspired by it again 

511
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:18,900
is always a fun experience. 
Yeah and I'm sure you doing this

512
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:21,800
podcast and talking with people.
I'm sure you get a lot of that 

513
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,300
same energy and excitement. 
That hats. 

514
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,000
Yeah, really cool. 
Yeah, yeah. 

515
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,700
Well, thank you for all the 
great information about 

516
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:35,800
production design. 
Any last-minute, advice for a 

517
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,700
creative thinking about doing a 
career of design, like what, 

518
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:41,400
what would you recommend for 
them? 

519
00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:46,800
Well, I think I would say just 
jump in and start doing it and 

520
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,200
that could start at a personal 
level and your own, you know, in

521
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,000
your own home in your own 
spaces. 

522
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:54,100
I think that's a good way to 
build up a portfolio. 

523
00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:57,600
Folio and take pictures. 
And obviously there's a lot of 

524
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,800
great reading material out there
and a lot of greats. 

525
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,300
Yeah, education available, oh, 
but I do think that the best way

526
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:10,900
to do it is just to jump in and 
and start to keep kind of my 

527
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,900
skills fresh. 
I will often do sort of just 

528
00:30:13,900 --> 00:30:18,100
like concepts for films that 
don't exist or projects that 

529
00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:21,600
won't be realized, but it's just
like a good way to kind of, you 

530
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,100
know, strengthen those, those 
muscles in that next. 

531
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:27,100
Set a little bit. 
And and I think that's that 

532
00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:29,700
would be. 
My advice is just jump in there 

533
00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:32,500
and do a bed and and learn learn
as you go. 

534
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:33,900
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

535
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:35,800
There's always stop. 
You're gonna learn along the 

536
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,400
way. 
So, just get started now. 

537
00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:39,800
Yeah. 
Yeah, I think I think that's 

538
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,000
true. 
Yeah, well, that's great. 

539
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,700
Well, thank you so much James. 
It's been a pleasure talking 

540
00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:46,700
with you. 
Yeah, you too. 

541
00:30:46,700 --> 00:30:49,100
I enjoy listening to the 
podcast. 

542
00:30:49,100 --> 00:30:52,300
So I mean, again, I'm I 
appreciate you having me on. 

543
00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:54,100
Yeah, great. 
Well, you're welcome. 

544
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,400
Welcome to come back anytime and
we'll talk to you again later. 

545
00:30:57,900 --> 00:30:59,100
All right. 
Sounds great. 

546
00:30:59,100 --> 00:31:07,800
Thank you. 
So that was such a fun 

547
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,900
conversation. 
I really enjoyed having James on

548
00:31:09,900 --> 00:31:15,000
the podcast and hopefully we can
follow his progress in his 

549
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,900
career and just kind of keep 
tabs on how he's giving back to 

550
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:22,200
the Next Generation in the 
influence that he can have so 

551
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,000
fun. 
So don't forget again that 

552
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,200
you're going to want to leave a 
review of the podcast. 

553
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,800
Where you listen to podcasts. 
You can leave a review there. 

554
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,000
Take it. 
In shot of it and send it to me 

555
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,900
so that you can get your code 
for that Master Class. 

556
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:41,000
That Erica sore is offering, and
don't forget to sign up for my 

557
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,700
design mentor, and get your free
downloads and all the things. 

558
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,300
And next week, we will continue 
our summer series. 

559
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,300
Having more interviews than just
me talking, which is kind of 

560
00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:54,800
fun. 
So we'll have another great 

561
00:31:54,800 --> 00:32:01,100
interview next week and until 
then stay creative, thanks for 

562
00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:03,400
listening if You loved this 
episode. 

563
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,200
Please leave a rating and a 
review. 

564
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,900
This helps me reach other 
curious. 

565
00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:08,100
Creatives. 
Like you. 

566
00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:12,200
If you have a topic request or 
would like to contact me, simply

567
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,200
head over to my website, our 
Ward design.com or email me at 

568
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:03,400
podcast at our Ward design.com. 
You loved this episode. 

569
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,200
Please leave a rating and a 
review. 

570
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,900
This helps me reach other 
curious. 

571
00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:08,100
Creatives. 
Like you. 

572
00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:12,200
If you have a topic request or 
would like to contact me, simply

573
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,200
head over to my website, our 
Ward design.com or email me at 

574
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,900
podcast at our Ward design.com.