1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,600 Hello and welcome to episode 52 of Design Curious Podcast. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,480 Today on the episode I'm very pleased to be speaking with one 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,280 of my coaches, Toby Fairley, and we are going to get into all 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,680 about how she started her career in interior design and the path 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,480 that she took to get there. Before I talk a little bit more 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,480 about her, I want to remind you I have that great quiz that I 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,240 just developed for you to take and find out what type of 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,280 interior design you should be doing, whether it's residential 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:37,160 or commercial or hospitality or spatial experience. 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,680 So go over to the podcast episode and in the show notes 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,320 you'll find the link to that quiz. 12 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,120 You can also find the link to the quiz on my Instagram at our 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,680 award design under the bio links. 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:55,240 And while you're there, send me a direct message to let me know 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,350 that you're listening to the podcast and which episode is 16 00:00:58,350 --> 00:01:00,670 your favorite. In the show notes, you'll also 17 00:01:00,670 --> 00:01:04,590 find the links for those downloads that I have created 18 00:01:04,590 --> 00:01:07,430 for you to help you get started in your career. 19 00:01:07,910 --> 00:01:11,030 So now let me tell you a little bit more about Toby Fairley. 20 00:01:11,670 --> 00:01:15,710 Toby Fairley is an innovation igniter, a thought architect and 21 00:01:15,710 --> 00:01:19,110 one of the leading voices on reimagining what it means to run 22 00:01:19,110 --> 00:01:23,190 a successful creative business in an equitable and sustainable 23 00:01:23,190 --> 00:01:25,510 way. As the host of Design You 24 00:01:25,550 --> 00:01:28,430 Podcast, Toby delivers a life altering inspiration for 25 00:01:28,430 --> 00:01:31,710 creative entrepreneurs mixed with tactical business advice 26 00:01:31,990 --> 00:01:35,790 and unfiltered aha moments on topics most business gurus won't 27 00:01:35,790 --> 00:01:39,710 dare to cover. And I have been listening to her 28 00:01:39,710 --> 00:01:44,190 podcast since episode one and love all the Episodes is great. 29 00:01:44,190 --> 00:01:47,430 So if you want to binge one, you can go back and listen to all of 30 00:01:47,430 --> 00:01:51,910 her great business advice and straightforward talk about 31 00:01:51,910 --> 00:01:55,770 design and what's up and coming in the design business. 32 00:01:56,290 --> 00:01:59,170 She's been featured in many publications as we talked about 33 00:01:59,170 --> 00:02:02,050 in the episode and when Toby's not running her high end 34 00:02:02,050 --> 00:02:05,210 residential interior design firm, leading her online 35 00:02:05,210 --> 00:02:07,370 membership community for ambitious creative 36 00:02:07,370 --> 00:02:11,450 professionals, design you or recording an episode for her top 37 00:02:11,450 --> 00:02:14,370 rated podcast. You can find her working on her 38 00:02:14,370 --> 00:02:17,490 upcoming book Thinking Deep Thoughts about How to Change the 39 00:02:17,490 --> 00:02:20,410 World, Painting or Curled up with a few good books and 40 00:02:20,410 --> 00:02:22,410 spending time with her family and two pups. 41 00:02:22,770 --> 00:02:26,250 Toby lives in Arkansas with her attorney husband and teenage 42 00:02:26,250 --> 00:02:28,210 daughter who's just gone off to college. 43 00:02:28,650 --> 00:02:35,210 So let's hear from Toby. You're now listening to Design. 44 00:02:35,210 --> 00:02:39,330 Curious, a place where you, Creative One, are here to learn 45 00:02:39,330 --> 00:02:42,330 about what it really is like to be an interior designer. 46 00:02:42,810 --> 00:02:45,610 And I'm your host and mentor, Rebecca Ward. 47 00:02:46,290 --> 00:02:50,340 If you're worried about how to succeed in a creative career, if 48 00:02:50,340 --> 00:02:53,180 you're ready to learn your next steps to become an interior 49 00:02:53,180 --> 00:02:57,540 designer, and if you want the satisfaction of doing something 50 00:02:57,540 --> 00:03:00,980 you love every day you are in the right place. 51 00:03:01,380 --> 00:03:05,420 Grab a coffee, a notebook, and let's dig into today's episode. 52 00:03:07,180 --> 00:03:08,820 Hi, Toby. Thank you for coming on the 53 00:03:08,820 --> 00:03:10,740 podcast today. It's such a pleasure to talk 54 00:03:10,740 --> 00:03:13,310 with you. Thank you so much for having me. 55 00:03:13,310 --> 00:03:16,190 I'm really excited to be here and so proud of your podcast. 56 00:03:16,190 --> 00:03:17,870 It's awesome. Oh, thank you. 57 00:03:17,870 --> 00:03:20,110 Yeah. And I would be remiss if I 58 00:03:20,110 --> 00:03:23,150 didn't say that one of the reasons why I have this podcast 59 00:03:23,150 --> 00:03:27,390 is because of my work with you. And it really prompted me to 60 00:03:27,470 --> 00:03:30,550 start doing courses and a podcast and all the things. 61 00:03:31,070 --> 00:03:33,630 And so you're part of the reason why we're here today. 62 00:03:33,990 --> 00:03:37,230 Well, I'm so happy to be a part of that, and thank you for 63 00:03:37,230 --> 00:03:38,990 trusting us to work with you, but. 64 00:03:39,430 --> 00:03:41,910 I do always remind people when they, when they give me some 65 00:03:41,910 --> 00:03:44,470 credit, that they're the ones who do all the hard work. 66 00:03:44,470 --> 00:03:48,270 So, yes, I, I may have inspired you, but you, but you're the one 67 00:03:48,270 --> 00:03:51,230 who pulled it off. So thank you. 68 00:03:51,230 --> 00:03:54,910 Thank you. So let's go back to talk about 69 00:03:54,910 --> 00:03:58,790 your career in interior design. And I know that you didn't come 70 00:03:58,790 --> 00:04:02,670 to it traditionally like it wasn't your first career choice, 71 00:04:02,710 --> 00:04:05,270 right? Yeah, so it actually ended up 72 00:04:05,310 --> 00:04:07,590 really being my first career, but. 73 00:04:08,110 --> 00:04:11,950 It took me a while to figure out what I wanted to do, so 74 00:04:12,390 --> 00:04:15,270 originally when I got out of high school I was always a great 75 00:04:15,270 --> 00:04:19,670 student and always creative. But also, I'm old enough being 76 00:04:19,670 --> 00:04:22,510 in my early 50s that. When I was getting out of high 77 00:04:22,510 --> 00:04:25,310 school, there wasn't as much encouragement to do what you 78 00:04:25,310 --> 00:04:26,590 love. There was a lot more 79 00:04:26,590 --> 00:04:29,790 encouragement to do what would be lucrative or what would be 80 00:04:30,070 --> 00:04:33,030 stable or all of those things. So yeah, at one point I was 81 00:04:33,030 --> 00:04:35,630 like, do I want to do pre Med? I love science, I love biology. 82 00:04:35,630 --> 00:04:38,230 And I was like, yeah, no, I don't think I could do like the 83 00:04:38,230 --> 00:04:41,590 blood and stuff all the time. Although I would be good at it 84 00:04:41,590 --> 00:04:43,790 and I could pass it in school, I don't think I want that as a 85 00:04:43,790 --> 00:04:47,140 career and so. I assumed I would do something 86 00:04:47,140 --> 00:04:49,940 in business and my dad encouraged me, which he had also 87 00:04:49,940 --> 00:04:52,020 done with my brother, to get an accounting degree. 88 00:04:52,380 --> 00:04:54,780 And I mean, I understood that. Like I understood the reason 89 00:04:54,780 --> 00:04:56,820 behind having that kind of business background and I'm 90 00:04:56,820 --> 00:05:00,170 really glad I have it now, but. Four years of accounting degree 91 00:05:00,170 --> 00:05:02,970 was really not very fun. And I'm not a quitter. 92 00:05:02,970 --> 00:05:05,890 I always finish everything. So I finished it, but I was like 93 00:05:05,890 --> 00:05:08,770 it about year three and I started understanding. 94 00:05:08,770 --> 00:05:11,450 It was like when HGTV was kind of just really coming on the 95 00:05:11,450 --> 00:05:14,850 scene and being from Arkansas, I hadn't had a lot of exposure to 96 00:05:14,850 --> 00:05:16,890 interior designers. My parents had worked with a 97 00:05:16,890 --> 00:05:20,410 person or two, but not in the way that we think of design now. 98 00:05:20,410 --> 00:05:22,290 It's really an up and coming field. 99 00:05:22,750 --> 00:05:25,470 And I was like, oh, I think that's my career. 100 00:05:25,950 --> 00:05:28,870 And I remember back then there was number Internet to get 101 00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:32,190 online and search. So I had to call the University 102 00:05:32,670 --> 00:05:37,150 of Arkansas and ask them if they had a degree in this field. 103 00:05:37,620 --> 00:05:41,460 And they had to mail me stuff by snail mail for me to learn about 104 00:05:41,460 --> 00:05:42,780 the career. Wow. 105 00:05:42,780 --> 00:05:45,500 But it was really fun and I was like, OK, I think that's for me. 106 00:05:45,540 --> 00:05:49,100 And so I, with immediately after finishing my accounting degree 107 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:51,180 turned around and went right back to school and did four 108 00:05:51,180 --> 00:05:53,220 years of design. The interesting thing about that 109 00:05:53,220 --> 00:05:56,100 when you already have an A degree like accounting and I had 110 00:05:56,100 --> 00:05:59,670 160 hours of. Of education. 111 00:05:59,790 --> 00:06:02,590 But design degrees take four years because it's all 112 00:06:02,590 --> 00:06:04,910 consecutive. I had all this extra time, so I 113 00:06:04,910 --> 00:06:06,070 was like, what am I gonna do with that? 114 00:06:06,070 --> 00:06:07,630 I'm gonna have an art minor or whatever. 115 00:06:07,630 --> 00:06:10,830 And I had this great advisor who said no one ever comes through 116 00:06:10,830 --> 00:06:12,310 here with a business degree already. 117 00:06:12,310 --> 00:06:15,150 Why wouldn't you get a master's in business in your spare time? 118 00:06:15,150 --> 00:06:18,390 Which I went ahead and did. So I remember not only did I 119 00:06:18,390 --> 00:06:20,630 tell my parents, OK, I'm going back to school and I'd love it 120 00:06:20,630 --> 00:06:24,460 if you would help me pay for it. Then I called like 3 months in 121 00:06:24,460 --> 00:06:27,380 and said, oh, and now I'd love to also go to grad school. 122 00:06:27,380 --> 00:06:30,860 And so now all my hours will be paying grad school hours because 123 00:06:30,860 --> 00:06:32,100 I'll be considered a grad student. 124 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:34,260 And they're like, great, Like what? 125 00:06:34,260 --> 00:06:37,820 What else can we pay for? But it turned out to be a 126 00:06:37,860 --> 00:06:41,900 really, really great decision. And in hindsight, it looks like 127 00:06:41,900 --> 00:06:43,580 I was so smart to have all of that. 128 00:06:43,660 --> 00:06:47,220 It wasn't as forethought as it looks, but it really did pay off 129 00:06:47,220 --> 00:06:49,220 to have the combination. And I ended up really in the 130 00:06:49,220 --> 00:06:50,860 field that I was supposed to be in all. 131 00:06:50,900 --> 00:06:53,620 Yeah, for sure. So when you talk about like your 132 00:06:53,620 --> 00:06:56,940 parents want you to have a career that's financially stable 133 00:06:56,940 --> 00:06:59,940 and everything like automatically interior design 134 00:06:59,940 --> 00:07:02,940 gets kicked to the curb like. Right, right. 135 00:07:03,020 --> 00:07:05,100 As do all the other artsy degrees, right? 136 00:07:05,140 --> 00:07:08,180 Anybody who wants to be an artist or a creative, it's like, 137 00:07:08,180 --> 00:07:10,460 well, that's not going to do it, right? 138 00:07:10,460 --> 00:07:12,780 Right. Yeah, but thankfully I did have 139 00:07:12,780 --> 00:07:18,420 a sense that although maybe the average salaries for art type 140 00:07:18,420 --> 00:07:22,440 careers, artsy careers. Are not always enticing. 141 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:27,400 I have this kind of knowing that if you really do follow your 142 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,040 heart and what you're meant to do, and you really become really 143 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,200 great at what you do, that it doesn't matter what you do, you 144 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,080 can. You can definitely create a 145 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,440 financially stable, lucrative career. 146 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,960 So I was hanging on to that thought and that thread the 147 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,680 whole time going OK Maybe the starting salaries are horrible. 148 00:07:47,050 --> 00:07:48,970 But I'm gonna do something different with this. 149 00:07:49,010 --> 00:07:50,850 I'm gonna go to the next level with this. 150 00:07:50,850 --> 00:07:51,850 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 151 00:07:51,850 --> 00:07:55,170 Use that to spur you on and to elevate the field. 152 00:07:55,170 --> 00:07:56,330 Really. And so that's. 153 00:07:56,330 --> 00:07:57,810 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's wonderful. 154 00:07:58,210 --> 00:08:01,250 Yeah. I know a designer who actually 155 00:08:01,370 --> 00:08:05,810 sometimes requires her employees to have a minor in business as 156 00:08:05,810 --> 00:08:10,390 well as interior design because it's business is such a huge 157 00:08:10,390 --> 00:08:13,630 part of, especially of the residential designers like. 158 00:08:14,070 --> 00:08:15,910 Yeah, it's really just being an entrepreneur. 159 00:08:15,910 --> 00:08:19,550 Like our skill set is design. But really the bulk of what we 160 00:08:19,550 --> 00:08:21,950 do is we run a small business day in and day out. 161 00:08:21,990 --> 00:08:24,190 And so it kind of doesn't matter what kind of small business it 162 00:08:24,190 --> 00:08:26,070 is. Small business is hard, 163 00:08:26,070 --> 00:08:30,430 entrepreneurship is hard, cash flow is hard, and all that stuff 164 00:08:30,430 --> 00:08:33,510 really does matter, especially the people who tend to be more 165 00:08:33,510 --> 00:08:35,909 creative and don't really like to think of that stuff. 166 00:08:36,350 --> 00:08:38,830 You know, I have the benefit of literally being about. 167 00:08:38,909 --> 00:08:42,030 About 5050. Left brain, right brain, even my 168 00:08:42,030 --> 00:08:44,670 human design says so, which is kind of funny, but I've always 169 00:08:44,670 --> 00:08:48,110 known that about myself. But a lot of creatives tend to 170 00:08:48,110 --> 00:08:51,790 lean very into the creative brain and don't want to think 171 00:08:51,790 --> 00:08:54,870 about any of that, you know, linear stuff or the structure or 172 00:08:54,870 --> 00:08:57,430 the spreadsheets. And we don't really have a 173 00:08:57,430 --> 00:08:59,230 choice if we're going to run our own business. 174 00:08:59,270 --> 00:09:02,430 So, yeah. And so from what I know about 175 00:09:02,430 --> 00:09:04,990 you is that you're kind of a super learner and so you're like 176 00:09:05,030 --> 00:09:08,080 you want to do know about something, You'll go and take a 177 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,560 course or you'll get a degree or get certified about it. 178 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,760 Do you think that it is required though, for all people to kind 179 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:20,080 of get that level of education going into the field? 180 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,320 No, I mean, definitely it has benefited me to be that type of 181 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:25,760 person. Like you said, when I'm 182 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,160 interested in something I have an extreme drive and in a 183 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:33,090 ridiculous amount of focus. To be able to really go deep 184 00:09:33,090 --> 00:09:37,010 into something, I like the confidence it gives me when I 185 00:09:37,250 --> 00:09:41,570 put some level of formal education behind something that 186 00:09:41,570 --> 00:09:43,890 I'm doing. Not everybody's wired that way. 187 00:09:43,890 --> 00:09:46,210 There are plenty of people who are like, I'll figure it out 188 00:09:46,210 --> 00:09:47,970 along the way. And I mean, I definitely have 189 00:09:47,970 --> 00:09:51,410 that I'll figure it out thing. But I I like to hedge my bets 190 00:09:51,410 --> 00:09:55,090 with hard knowledge and tangible facts and all of those things. 191 00:09:55,090 --> 00:10:00,090 So it's not a requirement, but do I think it's made it? 192 00:10:00,340 --> 00:10:02,940 Easier or giving me more confidence? 193 00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:05,340 I would say yes, I think it's the confidence thing because I 194 00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:09,540 think we tend to, as women, as creatives, as business owners, 195 00:10:09,540 --> 00:10:12,100 as humans, second guess, so many things. 196 00:10:12,100 --> 00:10:17,780 And when I can back up my thought process, my logic, my 197 00:10:17,780 --> 00:10:21,660 sort of educated guesses with facts and numbers, it usually 198 00:10:21,660 --> 00:10:25,300 gives me a lot of confidence to move forward in decisions where 199 00:10:25,300 --> 00:10:27,380 I think a lot of people say, say stuck so. 200 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:29,840 It definitely. I have a bias towards taking 201 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,880 action towards making decisions quickly and easily, and I I 202 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,480 think that probably has to be part of it because I've got a 203 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,760 lot of knowledge to help me as I'm moving forward in big 204 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:39,920 decisions. Yeah. 205 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,160 Have confidence in taking action because you have all that data 206 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:44,800 behind you. Yeah, totally. 207 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:46,080 Facts of learning. Yeah. 208 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,280 Yeah, yeah, that's good. So you got your degree and then 209 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,880 did you start working for someone else or did you start 210 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,040 your own business? Yeah, so that's an interesting 211 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,320 story. So when I finished my degrees 212 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,800 degrees after nine years, literally I could have been a 213 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,480 doctor. I just chose not to be one cuz I 214 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:08,040 was in school for so long so I got out of school in about 98 215 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,290 ish. And I went and interviewed in 216 00:11:11,290 --> 00:11:15,250 Little Rock in Arkansas, where I live for a design position and 217 00:11:15,250 --> 00:11:19,970 the starting salary was $17,000. And I was like, I mean, yeah, 218 00:11:19,970 --> 00:11:24,010 it's 1998, but that was still extremely low. 219 00:11:24,130 --> 00:11:26,370 Like, you're not going to be able to support yourself on that 220 00:11:26,370 --> 00:11:30,370 amount of money at that time. And so I had done an internship 221 00:11:30,370 --> 00:11:33,050 in Las Vegas that it was required to finish my degree in 222 00:11:33,050 --> 00:11:35,530 design and hospitality design, which was really fun. 223 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,120 And then I had just elected to do another internship for 224 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:43,400 someone who was local, I mean, in a town kind of just outside 225 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,600 of Little Rock. And he had been a designer in 226 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,480 New York for years, and then, as he was getting older, had 227 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,360 retired back to Arkansas. But he still had offices in both 228 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,720 places. And so I elected to work for him 229 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:58,300 for the summer. And got the taste of really 230 00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:01,740 dealing with some very highend clients and what that was like. 231 00:12:01,780 --> 00:12:03,700 Thankfully, I did have those two experiences. 232 00:12:03,700 --> 00:12:06,500 I don't recommend necessarily people not working for other 233 00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:10,020 people like I did, but after interviewing and hearing those 234 00:12:10,020 --> 00:12:12,060 starting salaries, I was kind of like, you know what? 235 00:12:12,060 --> 00:12:13,780 I come from an entrepreneurial family. 236 00:12:13,780 --> 00:12:16,900 My dad runs a family owned business and has my whole life. 237 00:12:17,410 --> 00:12:20,050 I think I'm just gonna rip the Band-Aid off and jump in. 238 00:12:20,210 --> 00:12:23,010 I was single at the time, even though it was like 28. 239 00:12:23,050 --> 00:12:25,330 And I was like, if I can't afford to eat, I can always 240 00:12:25,330 --> 00:12:27,690 drive over to my parents house and they'll at least feed me. 241 00:12:28,610 --> 00:12:30,250 Uh, so I think I'm gonna wing it. 242 00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:33,650 And I actually though ended up opening a little shop, a little 243 00:12:33,650 --> 00:12:36,090 like retail space. It was fun. 244 00:12:36,090 --> 00:12:38,010 I'm just got back in retail. We can talk about that in a 245 00:12:38,010 --> 00:12:41,210 minute, and I haven't been in it for 14 years, but I do really 246 00:12:41,210 --> 00:12:45,130 love that whole experience, as so many creatives do if being a 247 00:12:45,130 --> 00:12:47,330 shop owner and a shopkeep, even though it's also. 248 00:12:47,450 --> 00:12:49,810 Sometimes not something I recommend, but it was a great 249 00:12:49,810 --> 00:12:53,810 way to start because for people that didn't know me, I had other 250 00:12:53,810 --> 00:12:56,450 things to sell and I could build relationships. 251 00:12:56,450 --> 00:12:58,450 And so I started with a little shop. 252 00:12:58,450 --> 00:13:01,290 I started outside of Little Rock in a little community because I 253 00:13:01,290 --> 00:13:05,050 couldn't afford the rent here. But I found myself working here 254 00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:07,970 more often than not, which is our biggest city in in Arkansas 255 00:13:08,370 --> 00:13:11,130 for friends, parents, people I knew in college, that kind of 256 00:13:11,130 --> 00:13:12,770 thing. And it just kind of went from 257 00:13:12,770 --> 00:13:14,370 there. So I did start off on my own 258 00:13:14,370 --> 00:13:17,290 right out of the gate and I think my business was. 259 00:13:17,410 --> 00:13:22,050 Incorporated in 1999. So I did those internships for a 260 00:13:22,050 --> 00:13:23,690 few months and then I jumped right in. 261 00:13:23,690 --> 00:13:26,490 So I learned, learned school of Hard Knocks, made all the 262 00:13:26,490 --> 00:13:30,690 mistakes, did all the things, spent all the money, overspit 263 00:13:30,730 --> 00:13:32,210 all the stuff. Yeah. 264 00:13:32,610 --> 00:13:35,330 So I know that you do a lot of coaching now. 265 00:13:35,330 --> 00:13:38,530 Did you seek out coaching them for yourself back then? 266 00:13:38,530 --> 00:13:39,890 Was that something that you were? 267 00:13:39,930 --> 00:13:43,290 Yeah, so, so I started my business in 99 and the first 268 00:13:43,290 --> 00:13:47,490 business coach that I found. Was a person who I think still 269 00:13:47,490 --> 00:13:50,050 actually is in the business, believe it or not, and it's 270 00:13:50,050 --> 00:13:52,650 amazing that she is. Her name is Mary Nakstet, and 271 00:13:52,650 --> 00:13:55,450 she had written a lot of books, including textbooks, and one of 272 00:13:55,450 --> 00:13:57,850 my school textbooks was written by her. 273 00:13:58,170 --> 00:14:00,450 And so it was about professional practices. 274 00:14:00,530 --> 00:14:03,610 I had no idea that she ran these mastermind groups. 275 00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:08,070 And I was studying for the NCIDQ exam and I was using her book to 276 00:14:08,070 --> 00:14:10,510 study and I got to the very back of it and there was like this 277 00:14:10,510 --> 00:14:13,510 Backpage that had a flyer for these like little mentorship 278 00:14:13,510 --> 00:14:17,430 groups she had and I remember calling the number. 279 00:14:17,430 --> 00:14:19,950 And again this was in 2004. So I had to wait till like 280 00:14:19,950 --> 00:14:21,430 Monday because this was on a weekend. 281 00:14:21,430 --> 00:14:23,350 I found that I didn't wait till till Monday. 282 00:14:23,350 --> 00:14:26,030 There was number looking anything up on the Internet and 283 00:14:26,030 --> 00:14:29,400 I called. And I remember calling my mom 284 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,200 because I had stayed home. We're big football fans and all 285 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,800 my family was at the Arkansas, Texas football game in Austin. 286 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,560 And I had stayed home to be responsible and study for my 287 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,440 NCIDQ. And I remember calling my mom 288 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,120 and she was at the game, so at least there were cell phones 289 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,720 then and she could barely hear me. 290 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:49,040 And I was like, I think I want to go to this thing in New York 291 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,440 and it's like $5000. And she was like, what? 292 00:14:52,810 --> 00:14:54,530 And like, she was like, I can't hear you. 293 00:14:54,530 --> 00:14:57,330 And I like, will you go with me? And so she ended up going with 294 00:14:57,330 --> 00:14:59,290 me. She paid her own way. 295 00:14:59,530 --> 00:15:02,250 They let you bring a companion for like, I don't remember like 296 00:15:02,250 --> 00:15:04,130 another two or three thousand or something. 297 00:15:04,130 --> 00:15:08,690 And so I think four or five years, I went once, 1/4 and 298 00:15:08,690 --> 00:15:11,490 worked with Mary as my first business coach. 299 00:15:11,770 --> 00:15:14,450 And it made a tremendous difference. 300 00:15:14,450 --> 00:15:16,730 She was the first person to teach me how to charge flat 301 00:15:16,730 --> 00:15:18,740 fees. And I listened to everything she 302 00:15:18,740 --> 00:15:20,300 said. I did everything she said. 303 00:15:20,540 --> 00:15:22,980 I remember coming home from some of those sessions thinking, 304 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:26,100 well, what have you got to lose? And my dad was even saying, this 305 00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:27,820 is never going to work. You're going to charge people 306 00:15:27,820 --> 00:15:30,700 how much to do this work. And I remember I pitched my 307 00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:35,500 first fee to someone. It was $29,000 in 2004 and they 308 00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:38,570 said yes. Immediately I was like, OK, this 309 00:15:38,690 --> 00:15:43,450 lady really understands the concept of pricing per value, 310 00:15:43,450 --> 00:15:46,970 not per dollar and like really helping elevate and create a 311 00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:48,890 highend luxury brand and all the things. 312 00:15:48,890 --> 00:15:52,170 So yeah, and but the other thing that I knew when I was going to 313 00:15:52,170 --> 00:15:56,810 work with her is I had this understanding that some point in 314 00:15:56,810 --> 00:16:00,250 my future, I also would be really good at consulting and 315 00:16:00,250 --> 00:16:02,810 teaching because I was just really able to. 316 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,200 Understand, absorb, breakdown, kind of make things very 317 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,800 practical and understand implementation of the things she 318 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,440 was teaching me. And it goes hand in hand with 319 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,760 that part of me that it's a learner that has like all of 320 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,680 that focus. And I like to think about 321 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,080 building business almost as much as I like to think about 322 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,680 building a space or a room. So I kind of knew from then. 323 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,560 I was like sometime in the future I will be doing. 324 00:16:26,950 --> 00:16:29,910 This kind of work too. Yeah, it was interesting. 325 00:16:30,070 --> 00:16:32,830 Yeah, I had a similar kind of feeling too. 326 00:16:32,830 --> 00:16:36,190 As I grow in my business and got coaching, I'm like, I really 327 00:16:36,190 --> 00:16:39,350 love being coached, but I also love coaching other people. 328 00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:42,150 People just started asking my advice and things like that and 329 00:16:42,150 --> 00:16:45,750 it just was really just lighten up when someone asked for my 330 00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:48,830 opinion on how to like help with their business and things like 331 00:16:48,830 --> 00:16:52,050 that. So I had a similar kind of path 332 00:16:52,090 --> 00:16:53,450 with that. And so then here we are. 333 00:16:53,450 --> 00:16:56,770 I have a mentorship group, so that's a really fun path to 334 00:16:56,770 --> 00:16:58,930 trial. So then you really grew your 335 00:16:58,930 --> 00:17:01,050 business at some point. I don't remember what year it 336 00:17:01,050 --> 00:17:04,530 was, but I know you were on like magazine covers and I just 337 00:17:04,530 --> 00:17:08,089 really you had such an iconic style that it really stuck with 338 00:17:08,089 --> 00:17:10,050 me. Like your name was in my head 339 00:17:10,050 --> 00:17:14,050 because I knew your name and all the bright colors like went 340 00:17:14,050 --> 00:17:16,210 together all the time. Yeah, I would say that was about 341 00:17:16,210 --> 00:17:18,930 10 year path to really start showing up more in like a 342 00:17:18,930 --> 00:17:22,690 national way. And I remember prior to that I 343 00:17:22,690 --> 00:17:25,970 had looked at Suzanne Cassler. I had gone on one time to her 344 00:17:25,970 --> 00:17:29,530 website and I was like, I wonder how long it took her from the 345 00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:32,090 first time she started getting published like locally in 346 00:17:32,090 --> 00:17:36,010 Atlanta to when she was on the covers of like national 347 00:17:36,010 --> 00:17:37,810 magazines or had a product line or whatever. 348 00:17:37,810 --> 00:17:39,970 And I remember it was about 10 years. 349 00:17:40,370 --> 00:17:44,050 It was like from 98 to 08 or something almost exactly. 350 00:17:44,410 --> 00:17:46,690 And I was thinking about that path. 351 00:17:46,690 --> 00:17:49,730 I had been getting published locally and at home in Arkansas 352 00:17:49,730 --> 00:17:53,090 and having covers and doing well, like really getting my 353 00:17:53,170 --> 00:17:56,280 workout there and. Growing my business and got some 354 00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,080 really, really lucrative projects and like $1,000,000 355 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:05,320 interiors projects and this was probably around about from 99. 356 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,600 This was about 08 or 09 which was interesting because it was 357 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,680 right around when the recession was was about to hit as well. 358 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:18,120 In 2009, I was named one of the traditional home new trads, and 359 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,400 that was the first time they had brought back their list. 360 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,800 And everything kind of just started falling into place that 361 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,800 same year, right about the same time in the spring. 362 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,640 I also was on the cover of House Beautiful and I had started 363 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:35,120 networking and I was at market at high point and I had met Neil 364 00:18:35,120 --> 00:18:37,040 Turner, he was the assistant editor. 365 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:38,960 And then Steven Drucker was the editor at the time. 366 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:40,360 And it happened to be at this event. 367 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:43,520 And I went up and was talking to Newell and introduced myself to 368 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,040 Steven. And they said, I said I have a 369 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,000 project that I'd love for y'all to see. 370 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,480 And they said, well, we're actually looking. 371 00:18:50,980 --> 00:18:54,020 For we have a hole in the March issue. 372 00:18:54,420 --> 00:18:56,940 Any chance it would be appropriate for that? 373 00:18:56,940 --> 00:18:58,580 I mean it was just like divine timing. 374 00:18:58,580 --> 00:19:02,460 And I was like maybe it's blue and they're like, you're kidding 375 00:19:02,460 --> 00:19:04,060 and like it. This is the blue issue. 376 00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:06,740 And I was like okay and I sent it in and they were like, we 377 00:19:06,740 --> 00:19:09,500 love it, can we shoot it? And it was. 378 00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:12,020 The project was in Northwest Arkansas, about 3 hours away. 379 00:19:12,450 --> 00:19:16,410 And they flew in this amazing photographer, Francesco Leneze, 380 00:19:16,410 --> 00:19:18,130 who was like the top of his game. 381 00:19:18,130 --> 00:19:21,690 They flew in Robert Ruffino, who I love, who just actually 382 00:19:21,690 --> 00:19:23,410 retired from working with Hearst. 383 00:19:23,610 --> 00:19:25,210 He's been a stylist for them for years. 384 00:19:25,210 --> 00:19:26,930 And so he came in to style the pro. 385 00:19:26,930 --> 00:19:29,570 I mean, like the top people. I mean, it was blowing my mind. 386 00:19:29,570 --> 00:19:31,450 It just was like a fluke. And it all happened. 387 00:19:31,610 --> 00:19:33,250 And it literally happened in like a weekend. 388 00:19:33,250 --> 00:19:35,690 Like, I sent them the project at market and like, by the next 389 00:19:35,690 --> 00:19:37,090 Monday they were like, when can we shoot? 390 00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:40,130 Wow, that was just a dreamy situation. 391 00:19:40,130 --> 00:19:41,690 And I had no idea it would be the cover. 392 00:19:41,690 --> 00:19:43,650 And then they called. And they're like it's the cover 393 00:19:43,930 --> 00:19:46,890 of the blue issues. It was just one of those things 394 00:19:46,890 --> 00:19:49,570 that I don't know was meant to be or the timing was right or 395 00:19:49,570 --> 00:19:53,130 whatever, but it really was some very elevated work for me. 396 00:19:53,130 --> 00:19:56,250 It was a different level of work than I had done because I had 397 00:19:56,250 --> 00:19:59,890 the client that was willing to be adventurous and that had the 398 00:19:59,890 --> 00:20:03,610 funds to be and they had an art collection and they, they spent 399 00:20:03,610 --> 00:20:06,330 a lot of money on the project. It's just kind of the stars 400 00:20:06,330 --> 00:20:08,970 aligned. That moment was major game 401 00:20:08,970 --> 00:20:11,200 changer. People think if you get national 402 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,200 publicity that you're suddenly going to have all these clients. 403 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,160 It's not really that. It's like you have a rush of 404 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:16,640 clients. People don't see the magazine 405 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,240 and pick up the phone and start hiring you, but it just puts you 406 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:25,280 in a different level of credibility, kind of aligns you 407 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,200 alongside some other peers that have had that accomplishment. 408 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,800 And it also just does something for your own confidence. 409 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,400 So that's probably when you started seeing or sometime after 410 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,680 that. So that was in 09 and the list 411 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,600 was for traditional home was in 09 And then in 2012 I had 412 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,320 another cover that's home with traditional home and then I 413 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,880 think I had one in 2014. So, and I've had a national 414 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,800 cover since probably 2014, which is funny now is almost 10 years 415 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,870 ago. We don't push magazines the way 416 00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:53,230 we used to in our industry. We do a lot of stuff on, you 417 00:20:53,230 --> 00:20:56,310 know, online and with Instagram. But I had a really good run 418 00:20:56,310 --> 00:21:00,630 there in a like about 10 to 12 years into my career. 419 00:21:00,630 --> 00:21:02,870 I mean almost 25 years now or 24. 420 00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:06,310 That really took me to a different level. 421 00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:09,150 The other thing that was happening right then is that was 422 00:21:09,310 --> 00:21:12,550 right at the same time that design blogs and the whole 423 00:21:12,550 --> 00:21:16,230 blogosphere was like happening. And I was an early adopter, 424 00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:19,270 which I often am to things. I was an early adopter and I was 425 00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:23,230 one of the only practicing interior designers writing a 426 00:21:23,230 --> 00:21:25,030 design blog. There were a handful of us, but 427 00:21:25,030 --> 00:21:27,390 most of the people blogging were design enthusiasts and not 428 00:21:27,390 --> 00:21:30,550 interior designers. So Lauren Lease was writing. 429 00:21:30,550 --> 00:21:33,550 I was writing. A few people were Aaron Gates a 430 00:21:33,550 --> 00:21:35,070 handful of people. And I don't even know if Aaron 431 00:21:35,070 --> 00:21:37,430 was a designer yet or if she was more of a Blogger. 432 00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:40,630 Paloma Contreras was more of a Blogger first before she was a 433 00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:43,070 designer. So Lauren and I, I think had 434 00:21:43,070 --> 00:21:46,050 full blown design businesses, but when that was happening, it 435 00:21:46,050 --> 00:21:49,170 was also so intriguing to magazines because they were 436 00:21:49,170 --> 00:21:50,890 scared of it. They were like are these people 437 00:21:50,890 --> 00:21:55,850 our competition, but at the same time they wanted to tap into 438 00:21:55,850 --> 00:21:59,050 that knowledge and that tech and what was happening in the 439 00:21:59,050 --> 00:22:01,450 growth. And so it also opened up a lot 440 00:22:01,450 --> 00:22:04,170 of opportunities with magazines. They would be reading, like I 441 00:22:04,170 --> 00:22:06,870 would publish. And in real time, you know, an 442 00:22:06,870 --> 00:22:09,830 hour later, somebody from, like Southern Living would say, we 443 00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:11,550 saw you're having a party. Is it something we can 444 00:22:11,550 --> 00:22:12,430 photograph? What is it? 445 00:22:12,430 --> 00:22:13,550 Can you see this pictures? Yeah. 446 00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:16,430 So that was so cool because that had never happened before. 447 00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:18,790 And now it's so saturated in social media. 448 00:22:18,790 --> 00:22:21,510 But at that time, there just weren't that many of us doing 449 00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:23,150 it. And so it started instantly 450 00:22:23,150 --> 00:22:26,710 connecting us to magazines. So that was just again, sort of 451 00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:29,310 a right place at the right time. I guess my lesson from that for 452 00:22:29,310 --> 00:22:32,310 people is be an early adopter of things. 453 00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:36,150 Don't wait to try things because there's so much opportunity. 454 00:22:36,150 --> 00:22:39,990 You don't even know what could happen from you being willing to 455 00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:43,830 to try things to put yourself out there to test new technology 456 00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:46,230 to you know, be on the front end of a curve. 457 00:22:46,590 --> 00:22:49,590 So as we don't know what's going to happen with things like a I 458 00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:53,110 in the future, I would say stay very open and be willing to try 459 00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:55,830 and and jump in on things because that's the very thing I 460 00:22:55,830 --> 00:22:59,510 was doing and it was paying off in humongous ways. 461 00:22:59,710 --> 00:23:03,070 Yeah, and you've made this point recently on your podcast too is 462 00:23:03,070 --> 00:23:06,590 listening that to be an early adapter, to be an entrepreneur, 463 00:23:06,590 --> 00:23:09,030 you have to be a risk taker as well, you know. 464 00:23:09,270 --> 00:23:10,750 And so you have to put yourself out there. 465 00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:13,710 You have to be vulnerable. So there are a lot of mindset 466 00:23:13,910 --> 00:23:18,310 management that you have to do to totally make sure that you 467 00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:20,790 can. Keep being vulnerable and like, 468 00:23:21,070 --> 00:23:23,470 you know, have a little bit of a tougher skin if somebody didn't 469 00:23:23,470 --> 00:23:24,910 like your photo, you know, right. 470 00:23:24,910 --> 00:23:27,750 If they didn't like it. And also just like the risk is 471 00:23:27,790 --> 00:23:31,030 like, it might not work, yes, somebody might not like it, but 472 00:23:31,030 --> 00:23:33,550 you also are potentially wasting time. 473 00:23:33,550 --> 00:23:35,430 You also are potentially wasting money. 474 00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:38,470 Like you could create things that never gets picked up 475 00:23:38,590 --> 00:23:41,630 anywhere or published anywhere. But what if it does, right? 476 00:23:41,670 --> 00:23:44,590 And so that was my experience. Like, if I'm going to look and 477 00:23:44,590 --> 00:23:47,510 say, well, I spent all this money of these projects that 478 00:23:47,510 --> 00:23:51,630 nobody ever said yes to, but they did say yes to a handful 479 00:23:51,630 --> 00:23:53,350 that took me to a whole other level. 480 00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:57,310 And so every time that I would invest time, money, photography, 481 00:23:57,550 --> 00:24:00,350 spending my own money, just style things to take to a next 482 00:24:00,350 --> 00:24:03,550 level or mock up a party and like photograph it or do things 483 00:24:03,550 --> 00:24:05,870 like that. Yeah, I was spending money and 484 00:24:05,870 --> 00:24:12,100 time, but it was an investment in the potential success, not 485 00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:15,660 the actual success. But what I found is if I was 486 00:24:15,660 --> 00:24:17,660 willing to go ahead and put my own time and money into 487 00:24:17,660 --> 00:24:20,780 something, more often than not people would say yes to it. 488 00:24:20,980 --> 00:24:23,340 An example of that is I did this teeny little thing. 489 00:24:23,340 --> 00:24:25,180 It's not even, I mean, I wouldn't have ever even really 490 00:24:25,180 --> 00:24:26,940 called it a show house. It they kind of did. 491 00:24:26,940 --> 00:24:30,620 But I would call it more like a parade of homes or a model home 492 00:24:30,620 --> 00:24:33,260 or something in this tiny little community outside of Little 493 00:24:33,260 --> 00:24:36,220 Rock. And it was based on the idea of 494 00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:39,580 sustainability like at the very beginning of that movement. 495 00:24:39,580 --> 00:24:44,100 So again probably around that same period 00809, I don't know 496 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:48,060 sometime a long time ago it was called the Energy House and I 497 00:24:48,060 --> 00:24:53,300 had noticed that traditional home was doing this new thing on 498 00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:56,420 social media that they were calling a tip clip and it was 499 00:24:56,420 --> 00:24:59,300 just a little video way before short form video. 500 00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:05,210 And so I was like, if I go shoot myself touring the home and 501 00:25:05,210 --> 00:25:07,930 spend my own money and hire a videographer and make some 502 00:25:07,930 --> 00:25:10,410 little clips and send them over to them. 503 00:25:10,410 --> 00:25:13,650 And not only say here's a project I'm pitching about 504 00:25:13,650 --> 00:25:16,770 sustainability and like energy efficiency, which is a new 505 00:25:16,770 --> 00:25:20,050 Cuttingedge thing, but I also went ahead and spent my money to 506 00:25:20,050 --> 00:25:22,370 photograph it and to make these videos. 507 00:25:22,370 --> 00:25:24,330 And I knew magazines were short on budget. 508 00:25:24,330 --> 00:25:27,430 Things were, it was a recession and so they accepted the whole 509 00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:28,870 thing. I got a four page spread in 510 00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:31,990 traditional home and they ran my videos all over the place. 511 00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:34,270 That's a risk. They could have just said no 512 00:25:34,270 --> 00:25:37,150 thank you or we'll do it ourselves or whatever. 513 00:25:37,150 --> 00:25:40,510 And they literally took everything as is. 514 00:25:40,510 --> 00:25:42,630 And we're like, Oh my gosh, yes, can we send this? 515 00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:44,350 Can we run this? It saved them time. 516 00:25:44,350 --> 00:25:47,870 It saved them money. It was an investment in 4 pages 517 00:25:47,870 --> 00:25:50,870 in the national magazine that you can't buy that kind of press 518 00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:52,990 because it wasn't an ad, it was a feature. 519 00:25:52,990 --> 00:25:56,670 Right. So those are the kind of choices 520 00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:59,030 and risk that I've taken along the way. 521 00:25:59,030 --> 00:26:01,190 And sometimes I've gone into debt to take some of those. 522 00:26:01,190 --> 00:26:03,190 I'm not recommending that, but I'm just saying like they are 523 00:26:03,190 --> 00:26:05,230 actual risk. It wasn't that I just had a pot 524 00:26:05,230 --> 00:26:07,790 of money sitting around, but I would make an educated decision 525 00:26:07,790 --> 00:26:10,470 and think, OK, this one, I have some proof. 526 00:26:10,510 --> 00:26:13,750 I see what they're doing. What if I meet them halfway or 527 00:26:13,750 --> 00:26:16,070 what if I can I go there, I wonder what's going to happen. 528 00:26:16,070 --> 00:26:19,710 And that has paid off time and time again for me to do things 529 00:26:19,710 --> 00:26:22,430 like that, Yeah. Yeah. 530 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,360 So in that vein, let's talk a little bit about the retail side 531 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:28,800 of it. So you had a store before and 532 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,880 then now you've got one again. Can you tell us the differences 533 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,080 of what you did back then? And I know you closed it for a 534 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,760 reason for a certain amount of time. 535 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,640 So absolutely yes, all of that okay. 536 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,400 So I started in 99 with the the shop, which was great and a way 537 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,600 to get people in and get people to know me. 538 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,990 And then in 2009, so 10 years in, my design business was 539 00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:55,350 thriving, the recession was happening. 540 00:26:55,550 --> 00:27:00,030 I was starting my coaching business as a new revenue stream 541 00:27:00,030 --> 00:27:03,310 during the recession and I started having design camps and 542 00:27:03,310 --> 00:27:04,790 things. It's really how that started and 543 00:27:04,790 --> 00:27:07,030 people were seeing that on the blog and we're like, oh, I want 544 00:27:07,030 --> 00:27:10,510 to come learn from you. At that time, the design 545 00:27:10,510 --> 00:27:13,550 business was carrying the retail business all the time. 546 00:27:13,630 --> 00:27:16,350 So people would come in to shop, not really buy anything, wait 547 00:27:16,350 --> 00:27:19,270 for it to go on sale like people did and still do sometimes in 548 00:27:19,270 --> 00:27:22,830 retail stores these days. But I would get clients from it 549 00:27:22,830 --> 00:27:25,710 and then I would sell, you know, $100,000 worth of product to 550 00:27:25,710 --> 00:27:29,610 somebody like in their house. So realizing that the design 551 00:27:29,610 --> 00:27:32,530 business was where the money was at that moment and the store was 552 00:27:32,530 --> 00:27:34,210 a lot to take care of in a distraction. 553 00:27:34,210 --> 00:27:36,170 I had a toddler. I think Ellison was like, see, 554 00:27:36,170 --> 00:27:40,690 she was four and 09. I said it doesn't make sense 555 00:27:40,690 --> 00:27:42,410 anymore to me, I'm going to close the shop. 556 00:27:42,730 --> 00:27:45,730 I mean it was really kind of a trend in retail at that moment. 557 00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:48,420 Bennie Williamson had her beautiful shop in New York, 558 00:27:48,420 --> 00:27:51,020 Charlotte Moss had and they had. Both were closing their stores 559 00:27:51,020 --> 00:27:54,060 because retail was getting really hard right then because 560 00:27:54,060 --> 00:27:57,340 it was Amazon and a lot of the direct to consumer market was 561 00:27:57,340 --> 00:28:02,660 new and retail was getting shut out because of the Internet. 562 00:28:03,020 --> 00:28:07,100 So closed it, happy I closed it happy I had it all. 563 00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:09,660 Wonderful said I would never do retail again. 564 00:28:09,660 --> 00:28:11,260 Like you couldn't pay me enough to do that. 565 00:28:11,260 --> 00:28:16,640 It's it's not profitable. Fast forward 14 years and things 566 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,200 are really different now. So they're Shopify. 567 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,200 There's Shopify that integrates directly with Instagram. 568 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,200 People can shop right from their phones. 569 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,080 There are companies who drop ship to you and you don't even 570 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,760 have to invest in the inventory necessarily. 571 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,600 So things are so different. And also that four year old 572 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,440 toddler from back then is now an 18 year old young woman going 573 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,240 into apparel merchandising whose dream is have a boutique. 574 00:28:42,690 --> 00:28:45,650 And so this Mama and my Mama heart was like, OK, let's do it. 575 00:28:45,650 --> 00:28:48,570 I was going to get back in anyway to sell my product lines 576 00:28:48,570 --> 00:28:50,730 that I have with like Woodbridge and other things and do more of 577 00:28:50,730 --> 00:28:54,170 the furniture side. Her dream is on the apparel side 578 00:28:54,170 --> 00:28:57,370 and to be honest, I'm loving and having so much fun with the 579 00:28:57,370 --> 00:29:00,530 apparel and the clothes and but it's so different because as 580 00:29:00,530 --> 00:29:04,730 we're recording this, we've been open for six weeks or seven 581 00:29:04,730 --> 00:29:10,020 weeks, I think 7 weeks. Our customers are about 40% 582 00:29:10,260 --> 00:29:14,420 local or Arkansas and 60% everywhere else. 583 00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:19,380 And every day we're shipping clothing or drop shipping lamps 584 00:29:19,380 --> 00:29:23,740 or art or other things to mostly right now are kind of hot places 585 00:29:23,740 --> 00:29:28,140 are Georgia, North Carolina and places all over New York State, 586 00:29:28,180 --> 00:29:30,460 a couple of people in California but like we're shipping 587 00:29:30,460 --> 00:29:33,180 especially all over the South. So I must have a pretty good 588 00:29:33,580 --> 00:29:35,940 kind of audience on social media, like in that whole 589 00:29:35,940 --> 00:29:39,860 Southern kind of region, because the number of people in Georgia 590 00:29:39,860 --> 00:29:44,180 and North Carolina that have shopped with us is pretty fun 591 00:29:44,180 --> 00:29:46,740 and interesting. So it's so fun to wake up now 592 00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:49,380 every day and be like, oh, somebody bought a top or 593 00:29:49,380 --> 00:29:51,300 somebody bought a pillow or somebody bought a candle and 594 00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:54,460 then look and see. And more often than not, they're 595 00:29:54,460 --> 00:29:56,620 not here. They're in another state. 596 00:29:57,100 --> 00:30:02,120 So that is something that was not available in 2009 when I 597 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,560 closed the store. The Internet was not even that 598 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,440 helpful. You know, e-mail was about the 599 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,080 only way there was number social media. 600 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,440 You know, you'd have to try to e-mail or snail mail somebody an 601 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,440 invitation if you were gonna have an open house or a 602 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,520 Christmas event, right. And you know, social media has 603 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,200 made all of that difference. So it's kind of been interesting 604 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,600 to watch how the Internet and e-commerce and apps like Shopify 605 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,640 and Instagram have brought this business to a totally different 606 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,560 place. It doesn't mean that it's 607 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,760 without risk and it doesn't mean everybody should jump into it 608 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,320 necessarily, but a lot of the kinks are have been worked out 609 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:40,040 in that realm since I was in it, and it makes it easier and fun 610 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,560 in a lot of ways to be able to have a global audience. 611 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,600 And so for me that worked out great because over all of those 612 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,440 14 years I've been building an Instagram following on my main 613 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,960 Toby fairly site of 80,000 people or whatever. 614 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,520 I have people all over the globe that now can shop with me, get a 615 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:59,080 piece of our brand or what we're selling. 616 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,560 And so it's kind of fun to revisit it. 617 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,440 And I definitely eat my words to say I would never do this again 618 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,650 because I'm right back in the thick of it. 619 00:31:06,650 --> 00:31:09,770 But it's a completely different animal than it was when I left 620 00:31:09,770 --> 00:31:11,290 it 14 years ago. Yeah. 621 00:31:11,570 --> 00:31:13,010 OK. So then, yeah. 622 00:31:13,010 --> 00:31:16,570 So you would not necessarily discourage someone from going in 623 00:31:16,690 --> 00:31:19,250 to have their shop, if that's some, right? 624 00:31:19,250 --> 00:31:20,970 Yeah. So it's definitely different. 625 00:31:20,970 --> 00:31:24,490 And back then, you know, I was carrying three or $400,000 worth 626 00:31:24,490 --> 00:31:28,930 of inventory on 2000 square feet of showroom space with high rent 627 00:31:28,930 --> 00:31:31,890 and all kinds of things. Now my shop's in a teeny little 628 00:31:31,890 --> 00:31:34,730 town outside of Little Rock, in a building my parents own. 629 00:31:34,810 --> 00:31:38,010 That cost me basically thing to run and it doesn't matter where 630 00:31:38,010 --> 00:31:41,010 you're based anymore because you can literally ship everywhere 631 00:31:41,010 --> 00:31:42,610 and most people buy online anyway. 632 00:31:42,610 --> 00:31:44,810 So yeah, we do get some foot traffic, but most people are 633 00:31:44,810 --> 00:31:46,850 just watching what we're putting on Instagram every day and 634 00:31:46,850 --> 00:31:49,170 saying, I want that top, I want those pillows, I want that 635 00:31:49,170 --> 00:31:50,450 candle kind of thing. Yeah. 636 00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:54,650 So definitely if you keep your cost in check, we try to aim for 637 00:31:54,650 --> 00:31:59,250 about 70 to 80% drop ship product on our site versus about 638 00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:02,530 30% being things that we would actually inventory apparel, 639 00:32:02,530 --> 00:32:04,090 clothing. You do have to purchase the 640 00:32:04,090 --> 00:32:05,850 items. You can't mostly drop ship 641 00:32:05,850 --> 00:32:08,810 those, but it's a completely different ball game than 642 00:32:08,810 --> 00:32:11,530 carrying hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of inventory 643 00:32:11,530 --> 00:32:14,290 and sitting and waiting for somebody to find you without 644 00:32:14,290 --> 00:32:19,250 even having social media that we did not have back in 09 and 99 645 00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:22,050 and all of those time, yeah. So yeah, definitely different if 646 00:32:22,050 --> 00:32:27,170 you did it differently, if you did it in a way that is more 647 00:32:27,250 --> 00:32:29,770 conservative with your spend, I would say. 648 00:32:29,850 --> 00:32:32,370 And then honestly, the main thing is you just have to work 649 00:32:32,370 --> 00:32:33,530 it. If you're not showing up on 650 00:32:33,530 --> 00:32:35,410 social media every day, you're not going to sell anything. 651 00:32:35,810 --> 00:32:38,330 The days that I get busy doing other things and we don't post, 652 00:32:38,330 --> 00:32:40,690 we don't sell. The days that I show up multiple 653 00:32:40,690 --> 00:32:43,690 times a day, like I put up a post this afternoon about some 654 00:32:43,690 --> 00:32:47,090 football, like game day bags and within 15 minutes I had sold 655 00:32:47,090 --> 00:32:49,890 $300 worth of something to what, a bag To a customer. 656 00:32:49,890 --> 00:32:53,480 And so like if you're posting somebody's looking, if you're 657 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,240 working your social media. So that's such a beautiful thing 658 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,680 that we didn't have the last time in retail. 659 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,000 So that's a quick turnaround, very satisfying. 660 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,160 I know it's not fun. And then you tell it. 661 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,360 Yeah. So I think that a shop is 662 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,240 probably one of the main alternate revenue sources that 663 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,740 designers think about. Wanted to go beyond the Onetoone 664 00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:19,260 Design services, but I know that you have explored a lot more 665 00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:22,420 than that for revenue streams and you've coached people in 666 00:33:22,420 --> 00:33:32,580 this as well. So I've been doing coaches on 667 00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:36,100 the business side for a long time and fully intend to do way 668 00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:25,260 more on the design side. So I know that like courses are 669 00:33:25,260 --> 00:33:29,460 one that you definitely are proponent of and you have a 670 00:33:29,460 --> 00:33:40,710 program about that now. Actually did some about how many 671 00:33:40,710 --> 00:33:42,270 years ago was that? They're still selling, but 672 00:33:42,270 --> 00:33:44,590 probably five or six years ago House Beautiful asked me to 673 00:33:44,590 --> 00:33:47,870 partner with them and I did some design courses with them and 674 00:33:47,870 --> 00:33:51,310 Creative Live, which is a very established company that sells 675 00:33:51,390 --> 00:33:53,710 online education. Since then, I've mostly done 676 00:33:53,710 --> 00:33:55,590 things in the realm of business coaching. 677 00:33:55,590 --> 00:33:58,070 But I've taught many, many people and helped many people 678 00:33:58,070 --> 00:34:00,510 create design courses, and we're going to be rolling out a lot 679 00:34:00,510 --> 00:34:03,110 more of those ourselves soon. They work really well with the 680 00:34:03,110 --> 00:34:04,910 shop, right? Teach people how to decorate and 681 00:34:04,910 --> 00:34:07,230 then also say, and by the way, here's where you get that, like, 682 00:34:07,230 --> 00:34:09,350 really beautiful colorful lamp that I just taught you how to 683 00:34:09,350 --> 00:34:12,230 use. But what I've watched over the 684 00:34:12,230 --> 00:34:16,790 years is even the people that had such a great idea, they 685 00:34:16,790 --> 00:34:19,429 wouldn't get around to making their course for all kinds of 686 00:34:19,429 --> 00:34:20,270 reasons. They're busy. 687 00:34:20,270 --> 00:34:22,510 They don't know how. The tech is overwhelming. 688 00:34:22,909 --> 00:34:26,270 Back in the fall of last year, I decided that I wanted to try 689 00:34:26,270 --> 00:34:29,420 something and created what I call like a container, an 690 00:34:29,420 --> 00:34:32,620 experience where someone would work with us or a group of 691 00:34:32,620 --> 00:34:34,380 people would work with us for six months. 692 00:34:34,380 --> 00:34:36,020 And at the end of that six months they would have a 693 00:34:36,020 --> 00:34:39,139 finished course and we would meet twice a month and also give 694 00:34:39,139 --> 00:34:41,940 them homework and give them like our spreadsheets and our tools 695 00:34:41,940 --> 00:34:44,780 and our best practices and templates of how to create 696 00:34:44,780 --> 00:34:48,900 modules and all the things. And so we just finished the 697 00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:51,380 first ever group. It's called the online course 698 00:34:51,380 --> 00:34:53,860 incubator. I think we had nine people go 699 00:34:53,860 --> 00:34:57,030 through want to keep it at about 10:00 so that we can have hands 700 00:34:57,030 --> 00:35:00,110 on work with everybody and we just finished it. 701 00:35:00,150 --> 00:35:05,110 It is so fun and we had one of our members who has just been, 702 00:35:05,110 --> 00:35:08,150 she had just such a great idea and she's kind of been known as 703 00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:10,710 the Christmas Queen for years and does holiday decorating. 704 00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:15,190 And so she launched her course. Her name's Alyssa Berry and as 705 00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:17,910 of today it I think your course has been out. 706 00:35:18,110 --> 00:35:20,790 This is, I think, the 10th day, 9th or 10th day. 707 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:25,080 And she sold about 40 of them. So she's made like about $20,000 708 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,320 in 10 days, which is blowing her mind. 709 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,360 Yeah. And not every course flies off 710 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,040 the shelf like that. But if you can tap into 711 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,760 something that there's a void in the market or that you really 712 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,400 have a level of expertise. And she has done a great job 713 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,240 over the years of working her following and having a very 714 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:45,360 loyal social media base as well. So that was my goal, was to take 715 00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,640 somebody like her who kept saying I'm gonna get around to 716 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,200 it, I promise. I know I need to. 717 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,320 Yeah. And then create an atmosphere 718 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,960 where they would buckle down and have some deadlines that would 719 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,520 make them just rip the Band-Aid off and do it, even though it 720 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,920 felt hard and like a sidekick for a minute. 721 00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:05,040 And she did it and she did the work and it worked and and it's 722 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,520 really paying off in a really short time. 723 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,640 So that's really fun. So when I launched it in at the 724 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,720 end of last year and we started in January, I was like, we're 725 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:14,360 going to give this a whirl. I don't know if I'll ever do 726 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,510 this again. It's not inexpensive. 727 00:36:16,510 --> 00:36:18,670 It's $5000 to do this program with us. 728 00:36:18,670 --> 00:36:21,270 But although like, look at her, she's like made four times that 729 00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:23,310 back in 10 days. So not everybody's going to do 730 00:36:23,310 --> 00:36:26,990 that, but it's possible to pay for itself. 731 00:36:27,310 --> 00:36:30,590 It was so much fun and they loved it, that we're going to do 732 00:36:30,590 --> 00:36:32,630 it again. So we're getting ready to launch 733 00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:35,830 another round with 10 people Max. 734 00:36:36,110 --> 00:36:39,670 It's going to start in October. I don't have the exact dates 735 00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:43,590 right on me, but we're just opening up like the early sales 736 00:36:43,590 --> 00:36:45,390 around the time probably your podcast comes out. 737 00:36:45,390 --> 00:36:48,310 So August, September, we'll be selling, we'll get started in 738 00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:50,150 October. We'll spend six months together 739 00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:52,750 at the end of that six months, if you buckle down and do your 740 00:36:52,750 --> 00:36:54,190 thing, you can have a finished course. 741 00:36:54,190 --> 00:36:56,630 We'll help you like, learn to sell it and market it, all the 742 00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:59,590 things. And yeah, it was fun and they 743 00:36:59,590 --> 00:37:01,910 loved it and we loved it. And so, yeah, we're going to do 744 00:37:01,910 --> 00:37:04,170 it again, so. Wonderful. 745 00:37:04,170 --> 00:37:07,290 That's great. Just to help creatives find 746 00:37:07,290 --> 00:37:10,130 another outlet too, like. So a lot of them I I'm sure are 747 00:37:10,130 --> 00:37:13,290 designers or creative types. Yeah, So they weren't all 748 00:37:13,290 --> 00:37:14,930 designers, definitely all creatives. 749 00:37:14,930 --> 00:37:16,890 There were a couple of people working in like the kind of 750 00:37:16,890 --> 00:37:19,610 health related space. A lot of them had like an 751 00:37:19,610 --> 00:37:24,070 adjacent like your environment is a part of like their health 752 00:37:24,070 --> 00:37:26,910 and Wellness or well-being. Or one of our people is a as a 753 00:37:26,910 --> 00:37:31,150 Doctor Who is helping people with aging parents and there's a 754 00:37:31,150 --> 00:37:34,630 whole like interiors kind of adjacent component to it. 755 00:37:34,630 --> 00:37:37,370 But she also just helps you with that whole it's called 756 00:37:37,410 --> 00:37:40,170 unsandwiched and like if you're the sandwich generation and 757 00:37:40,170 --> 00:37:42,490 you're in between the raising kids and the aging parents. 758 00:37:42,490 --> 00:37:45,650 And so like her course, I don't even think it's live quite yet 759 00:37:45,650 --> 00:37:47,410 or it might be, it might be just going live. 760 00:37:47,610 --> 00:37:49,450 So we had the diverse group of people. 761 00:37:49,450 --> 00:37:52,050 We have somebody creating a course on how to create a 762 00:37:52,050 --> 00:37:55,040 kitchen that helps you manage your weight, which is 763 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,840 interesting. So like, there's a really cool, 764 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,600 We have a couple of people in that like Airbnb and shortterm 765 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,120 rental space. So like, it's been a really fun 766 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,520 process to see. One of them is an architect 767 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,600 who's through the pandemic, let her hair go silver. 768 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,400 She's in Canada and like had a whole new kind of like, epiphany 769 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,040 of like who she is and stepped into kind of the next version of 770 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,130 her. So she's all about aging 771 00:38:18,290 --> 00:38:21,130 beautifully. So she's in her 60s and she's an 772 00:38:21,130 --> 00:38:23,450 architect and she's like this is, I'm just kind of like coming 773 00:38:23,450 --> 00:38:26,490 into the next version of me. So I think it's called silver 774 00:38:26,490 --> 00:38:28,290 style and it's about finding your style. 775 00:38:28,290 --> 00:38:30,170 So like some really cool, unique things. 776 00:38:30,170 --> 00:38:32,970 And then one of the things we're doing in addition to that is 777 00:38:32,970 --> 00:38:38,040 we're in the process of creating a platform to sell other 778 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:39,880 people's courses besides our own. 779 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,240 So, OK, people that go through and finish a course are gonna 780 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:45,360 have the option and they're getting that ready for us right 781 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,880 now to submit for consideration. If we accept their course into 782 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:52,920 our program, like we'll be also helping to sell and do a revenue 783 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,360 share with them. Because I know the next step is, 784 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,770 OK, you got your course done. But then what if I don't really 785 00:38:58,770 --> 00:39:01,290 have a big audience or what if I don't know how to market it. 786 00:39:01,290 --> 00:39:04,450 And so it's going to be really fun to use our platform and our 787 00:39:04,450 --> 00:39:07,170 followers and to say, hey, you can not only get Toby's course 788 00:39:07,170 --> 00:39:09,570 on decorator, Toby's course on business, but you can get 789 00:39:09,570 --> 00:39:12,530 Alyssa's course on holiday decorating or this person's 790 00:39:12,530 --> 00:39:16,330 course on Airbnb's. And so like creating that hub 791 00:39:16,810 --> 00:39:20,850 for online education in the design related space. 792 00:39:20,850 --> 00:39:23,530 So you know, I'm always playing with ideas. 793 00:39:23,530 --> 00:39:26,010 I'm always testing and trying things and I'm always looking to 794 00:39:26,010 --> 00:39:31,360 see how I can help designers and creatives get over a hurdle or a 795 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,880 hump that's kind of in their way, that's keeping them from 796 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,320 being as profitable or having the kind of lifestyle or 797 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,320 business that they want. I knew that would be the next 798 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:39,560 hurdle. I was like we can put all these 799 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,640 people in business and they might have like a good out of 800 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,600 the chute, kind of like, you know, sale. 801 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,200 But then when everything kind of settles down and the new wears 802 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,240 off, what are they going to do to keep getting in front of new 803 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:54,800 eyes and really turning these courses into legit revenue 804 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,410 streams that hopefully make six figures or multiple 6 figures 805 00:39:58,410 --> 00:40:00,050 for them? And so we want to play a role in 806 00:40:00,050 --> 00:40:02,930 helping them get there too. So that's the next thing. 807 00:40:02,970 --> 00:40:04,570 Yeah. So I'm always trying something. 808 00:40:04,850 --> 00:40:06,810 Yeah, yeah, you are. That's so great. 809 00:40:07,130 --> 00:40:09,970 I think that would be kind of fun too, to be on your side of 810 00:40:09,970 --> 00:40:11,930 it. And seeing all of these amazing 811 00:40:11,930 --> 00:40:14,610 ideas come through that like, you know you wouldn't have 812 00:40:14,610 --> 00:40:17,250 thought of, that all these other people are bringing to you, and 813 00:40:17,250 --> 00:40:20,620 that you kind of get to be the first to peek in on these ideas 814 00:40:20,620 --> 00:40:24,020 and help to yeah. And some of the other people 815 00:40:24,020 --> 00:40:26,420 that we've helped build courses through, like our design new 816 00:40:26,420 --> 00:40:28,820 program, even before we had the online course incubator. 817 00:40:29,060 --> 00:40:31,820 Our student and my good friend Linda Holt comes to mind who's 818 00:40:31,900 --> 00:40:34,300 created the course on how to shoot Interiors with your iPhone 819 00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:37,460 because she's a photographer. So we've talked to Linda about 820 00:40:37,460 --> 00:40:40,220 partnering with us and selling her course on our platform once 821 00:40:40,220 --> 00:40:42,140 it's live. And so, you know, so we have so 822 00:40:42,140 --> 00:40:44,520 many. Amazing people that we get to 823 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,280 come into contact with all the time that you're right, that 824 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,520 have great ideas and expertise that I don't have, but I do have 825 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,280 the platform and I do have the reach. 826 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,120 So how fun to put those two things together and say like 827 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,680 what if we partner, what if we collaborate or what if we just 828 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,720 sell your thing through our sources. 829 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,640 And so that's going to be a fun next experiment to see what that 830 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,360 looks like. So yeah, great. 831 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,000 Wow, love that. OK, so there's lots of things. 832 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,880 We're going to keep tabs on you and put the link for everybody 833 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,280 to to be able to watch that course incubator come live and 834 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,400 be able to sign up for that and just see what other ideas and 835 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,080 things you have coming down the pipeline for all of us out here. 836 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,160 So what other things would you say before we go would you 837 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,440 recommend to a designer who's just thinking about getting into 838 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,220 the career? I think that we kind of started 839 00:41:33,220 --> 00:41:36,220 out saying you really have to have that business background or 840 00:41:36,220 --> 00:41:37,860 you have to think like an entrepreneur. 841 00:41:38,140 --> 00:41:41,460 And I've had so many people over the years say to me, Toby, I 842 00:41:41,460 --> 00:41:44,300 think you pivot, they call it pivot. 843 00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:46,020 I call it kind of just grow or expand. 844 00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:48,700 You pivot better than anybody I've seen. 845 00:41:48,700 --> 00:41:52,260 And I think what they mean is I'm always trying something just 846 00:41:52,260 --> 00:41:55,380 like we're talking about, you know, I moved into coaching in 847 00:41:55,380 --> 00:41:57,260 addition to design. And then we're like, what if we 848 00:41:57,260 --> 00:42:00,300 help people build courses or what if we try this e-commerce 849 00:42:00,300 --> 00:42:03,180 thing and so? The advice I would give people 850 00:42:03,180 --> 00:42:06,260 is it's so easy to think that you're just going to do this one 851 00:42:06,260 --> 00:42:07,500 thing. I'm just going to be a designer. 852 00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:09,460 It's going to make me all the money I need for the rest of my 853 00:42:09,460 --> 00:42:11,660 life, and I don't really think business works that way anymore. 854 00:42:12,220 --> 00:42:14,700 Yeah, the consumer can be your biggest competition doing their 855 00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:17,540 own design work. And so we have to have different 856 00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:20,700 angles to come at the revenue stream problem. 857 00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:22,740 I call it like putting a lot of poles in the water, right? 858 00:42:23,060 --> 00:42:25,540 We have one pole in the water. We can catch a fish at a time. 859 00:42:25,540 --> 00:42:28,140 If we have 5 poles in the water, we can catch 5 fish at a time. 860 00:42:28,460 --> 00:42:31,660 And so I would say to people either new in business, changing 861 00:42:31,660 --> 00:42:33,860 careers or just coming out of school. 862 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,360 That be open to the idea that business is multifaceted. 863 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,080 Successful businesses are more multifaceted in 2023 and beyond, 864 00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,720 and you have to be willing to do multiple things, which can feel 865 00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:49,960 exhausting at times. But it also can be really fun 866 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,320 and adventurous. And the sooner you get your mind 867 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,600 around that whole idea of testing and experimenting and 868 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:59,840 playing kind of in your business with different ideas and revenue 869 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:01,700 streams. We can really tap into our 870 00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:05,580 creativity and it can really make a huge difference in 871 00:43:05,780 --> 00:43:09,540 potential financially for us to grow our business and I don't 872 00:43:09,540 --> 00:43:13,620 think that was a way of thinking that most of us had, especially 873 00:43:13,620 --> 00:43:16,920 people my age coming out of. College in the 90s, like you 874 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,400 watch people get a job and do that thing for 40 years and 875 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,240 right that's just not how businesses anymore. 876 00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:24,880 You're gonna be lucky if the thing you're selling it stays 877 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,280 hot the way it is in the format it's in for three or four years. 878 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,680 But the consumers fickle and technology is. 879 00:43:31,110 --> 00:43:34,230 Fast and always moving and you've got to be moving and 880 00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:36,990 adapting to. So definitely encouraging people 881 00:43:36,990 --> 00:43:41,510 to start thinking that way, to not be surprised how much you 882 00:43:41,510 --> 00:43:44,230 have to be nimble and how many things you have to try to make 883 00:43:44,230 --> 00:43:46,550 businesses work. Because I think otherwise. 884 00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:48,950 That's the part nobody tells you and I think that's the part that 885 00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:51,670 can be, can create a lot of burnout for people, it can be 886 00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:55,350 very disheartening for people. It can feel extremely hard. 887 00:43:56,020 --> 00:43:59,460 And I think more than anything, it's the not knowing or being 888 00:43:59,460 --> 00:44:01,740 surprised by that that takes a toll on people. 889 00:44:01,740 --> 00:44:04,500 But if you can know going in, I'm going to become a lot of 890 00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:07,700 different versions of me throughout my design career. 891 00:44:07,700 --> 00:44:10,220 And I'm going to have fun testing and trying and playing 892 00:44:10,220 --> 00:44:14,060 and being willing to put things to bed and and invent new ideas 893 00:44:14,060 --> 00:44:17,700 or even, like I just did, circle back 14 years later to an old 894 00:44:17,740 --> 00:44:20,780 idea and like bring the new version of it to life. 895 00:44:20,980 --> 00:44:23,700 I think that's just what how we have to think is as business 896 00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:26,840 owners and creatives. Today and moving forward. 897 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,880 So that would probably be my biggest piece of advice. 898 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,800 It's served me very well to have that kind of a mindset, to be 899 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,240 willing to keep reinventing myself. 900 00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:36,600 And it's also just way more fun, yeah. 901 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,680 The 50 something version of me that's reinvented is different 902 00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,480 than the 40 something, than the 30 something. 903 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,280 And I know the 60 something will get to be different again too. 904 00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,760 And it makes it fun. It keeps me happy, it keeps me 905 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,280 excited. And you got to stay excited in 906 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:52,880 your business if you want it to do well. 907 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:56,930 So yeah, really good to show that you can use your creativity 908 00:44:56,930 --> 00:44:59,770 not only for your design projects, but also in your 909 00:44:59,770 --> 00:45:03,050 business and in your life. So that's a great application 910 00:45:03,050 --> 00:45:04,850 for that. Well, thank you so much Toby for 911 00:45:04,850 --> 00:45:07,490 sharing your knowledge and insight with us today. 912 00:45:07,730 --> 00:45:10,750 It was so fun. I'm often on the interviewer 913 00:45:10,750 --> 00:45:13,670 side of the mic and I should do more of these because it's 914 00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:17,070 actually, it is really fun and it reminds me of a lot of 915 00:45:17,070 --> 00:45:20,150 amazing things that I have been able to accomplish, but also 916 00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:23,670 that a lot of other people have helped me do over the years. 917 00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:25,910 And I think that that's something that I should probably 918 00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:28,790 spend more time doing because it makes you a little less burned 919 00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:30,990 out about your business and a little more grateful when you're 920 00:45:30,990 --> 00:45:33,070 reminding, remembering all of those fun things. 921 00:45:33,070 --> 00:45:35,630 So thanks for taking me and back down to relaying and like 922 00:45:35,630 --> 00:45:39,110 reminding myself how fun of a career it's been and. 923 00:45:39,230 --> 00:45:41,510 How much potential there still is left to to do? 924 00:45:41,590 --> 00:45:42,470 Exactly. Yeah. 925 00:45:42,470 --> 00:45:45,310 Like a gratitude session. So, yeah, absolutely. 926 00:45:45,310 --> 00:45:46,510 Wonderful. All right. 927 00:45:46,510 --> 00:45:48,350 Well, thank you, Toby. We'll talk to you later. 928 00:45:48,590 --> 00:45:57,870 Thank you. I thoroughly enjoyed that 929 00:45:57,870 --> 00:46:01,070 conversation with Toby. It's always a pleasure to talk 930 00:46:01,070 --> 00:46:03,270 with her. I have been on her podcast as 931 00:46:03,270 --> 00:46:07,350 well as in some of the groups in her design new program that she 932 00:46:07,350 --> 00:46:10,350 had, and it's just always great to talk with her. 933 00:46:10,350 --> 00:46:14,630 She has such great insight, very direct in her advice, and it's 934 00:46:14,630 --> 00:46:18,510 just as definitely a voice that I needed in my career path. 935 00:46:18,830 --> 00:46:21,910 So go and check her out. There's links to her course 936 00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:25,830 incubator in the show notes, as well as all the other things 937 00:46:25,830 --> 00:46:28,750 that she has going on her website and her Instagram. 938 00:46:28,750 --> 00:46:31,150 You can reach out to her. She's very active on there so 939 00:46:31,150 --> 00:46:32,710 I'm sure she would love to hear from you. 940 00:46:33,830 --> 00:46:36,470 And that's it for this week, so stay tuned. 941 00:46:36,470 --> 00:46:40,430 I've got another great episode next week with just a solo one 942 00:46:40,430 --> 00:46:45,430 with me and we're talking about a very relevant topic for most 943 00:46:45,630 --> 00:46:47,670 interior designers. So stick around and find out 944 00:46:47,670 --> 00:46:50,550 what that is. Until next time, stay creative. 945 00:46:52,350 --> 00:46:55,350 Thanks for listening. If you love this episode, please 946 00:46:55,350 --> 00:46:58,150 leave a rating and a review. This helps me reach other 947 00:46:58,150 --> 00:47:01,870 curious creatives like you. If you have a topic request or 948 00:47:01,870 --> 00:47:05,190 would like to contact me, simly head over to my website 949 00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:11,550 rwarddesign.com or e-mail me at podcast@rwarddesign.com.