1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,880 If you don't know how to decorate, it's not everybody's 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:03,440 skill. If you don't know how to style, 3 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,400 what you can see is OK. My bathroom is dated. 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:10,360 Oh, my kitchen is ugly? OK, I need to RIP it out, right? 5 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,720 But in a lot of cases, both of these spaces just need some 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,000 creativity. Maybe the countertop needs to be 7 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,600 replaced, like maybe it's the backsplash. 8 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,200 Maybe we just need to paint the cabinets too. 9 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,280 And but in a lot of cases, you know, I think a lot of people 10 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,120 would be so much happier if they had like a decorated living 11 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:27,480 room. As I'm looking at these 12 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,000 submissions that I'm getting from people that, you know, are 13 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,960 like, hey, come to my house and do a one day makeover, It's like 14 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:34,800 everybody has a Gray, the Gray world. 15 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,840 Like everybody's got like a collection of Gray furniture. 16 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,880 And that's and on the other hand, like nothing brings Gray 17 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:47,640 to life faster than color. You can easily add color to an 18 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,200 all Gray room and totally bring it to life. 19 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,680 You're now listening to Design Curious, a place where you, 20 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,640 creative one, are here to learn about what it really is like to 21 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:02,240 be an interior designer. And I'm your host and mentor, 22 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,400 Rebecca Ward. If you're worried about how to 23 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,480 succeed in a creative career, if you're ready to learn your next 24 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,640 steps to become an interior designer, and if you want the 25 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,720 satisfaction of doing something you love every day, you are in 26 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,880 the right place. Grab a coffee, a notebook, and 27 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,520 let's dig into today's episode. Hello, and welcome to episode 28 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:31,200 186 of Design Curious Podcast. This week on the podcast, I am 29 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,960 interviewing Maria Killam. I was very excited to have this 30 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:39,040 interview because I have been following her for years and she 31 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:44,360 is just, in my mind, the color expert of all the industry. 32 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,320 Maria is an internationally recognized color expert, design 33 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,600 educator, and the creator of Groundbreaking System for 34 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,960 Understanding Undertones. For 17 years, she taught 35 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,200 homeowners and designers how to create timeless, beautiful 36 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,840 spaces through her blog Color Me Happy, her E Design services and 37 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,040 her globally attended True Color Expert training. 38 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,560 Known for her straight talking, no nonsense approach to color 39 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,800 and trends, Maria is passionate about helping people to stop 40 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,400 making costly renovation mistakes and instead create 41 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,920 homes filled with joy, art and personality. 42 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,080 I know you're going to enjoy this conversation with Maria. 43 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:26,560 The one episode I did about color way back and was very 44 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,400 popular and I know that people are hungry to find out more 45 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,840 about how they can really understand color because it's 46 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,640 such a part of the design process. 47 00:02:35,640 --> 00:02:37,480 So I think you'll enjoy our interview today. 48 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,720 Let's talk with Maria. Hi Maria, welcome to Design 49 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,280 Curious podcast. It's great to have you on today. 50 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,360 I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me. 51 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,640 Yeah, me too. I was just telling you that the 52 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:53,120 color episode that I did a while back was one of our most 53 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,960 popular. So I know that people are hungry 54 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,440 For more information on color, how to select it, how to 55 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,240 understand it. And so that's why I sought you 56 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,480 out and asked you to come on the show because you are the color 57 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,480 expert in my opinion, so. Yeah, well. 58 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,560 Let's talk about how you became this expert. 59 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,120 Where did you start getting into the world of color? 60 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,120 Well, I was in a corporate job. I was the sales manager in the 61 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,000 hotel industry and I just kind of got into it. 62 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,880 Just, I don't know, I don't even remember how I got into it at 63 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,080 this very moment. But it's just corporate and it 64 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,200 wasn't creative. And I had been decorating my 65 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,560 friends and family all through my 20s. 66 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:40,160 So then I started doing some personal growth and development 67 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,480 training through Landmark Education. 68 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,760 And the background of that training is every single course 69 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,520 is always asking the question, are you living your life 70 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,080 powerfully? Are you living a life that you 71 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,480 love? And I was like, no, thank God 72 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,840 not doing other one of those things. 73 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,960 Oh no, That was in my early 30s. At this point, I decided I'm 74 00:03:57,960 --> 00:03:59,800 that's it, That's it. I'm just going to do it. 75 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,200 I'm just going to like quit my job, which I actually would not 76 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,040 recommend that you just drop everything and start a start up. 77 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,280 And that's basically what I did. And I put an ad in the Yellow 78 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,920 Pages and the ad said we use what you have to create 79 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,840 affordable, incredible interiors at the bottom. 80 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:17,440 I wrote expert color consultation. 81 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,680 Well, the ad worked and went in, someone called me and she said 82 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:23,120 I'm looking at all these beiges and I see that, you know, some 83 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,640 have like pink undertones and some have green undertones. 84 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,760 Can you help me with that? And I said absolutely, I had no 85 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,640 idea what she was talking about. And of course I decided, well, I 86 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:34,920 bet, of course she didn't hire me. 87 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:37,640 And so I decided, well, I better figure this out. 88 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:42,200 So I found a five day color course in San Francisco led by a 89 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,920 woman called Joanne Day, who I'm sure is long retired now. 90 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:52,080 That was 28 years ago now. So I flew down, I painted for 91 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,800 five days and I decided I was going to be an international and 92 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,440 color consultant. I came back, I wrote it on a 93 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,720 sticky note, stuck it up on my mirror and basically, you know, 94 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,040 it's like, who knew I would get there through writing A blog 95 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,240 called Color Me Happy, which I had still write twice a week. 96 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,240 So yeah, I've been doing that for 18 years. 97 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,240 I started writing my blog in 2008. 98 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,880 So there are a lot of people that use my content as a total 99 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,120 and complete resource for their new build and their renovation. 100 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,360 You know, every question they have, I had someone e-mail me 101 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,600 the other message me. And then she's really like, I'm 102 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,400 just looking because, like, I can't. 103 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,120 I'm doing a commercial hallway. And I just want to know, like, 104 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,000 which Sheen? And then I didn't respond right 105 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:31,880 away because I was in a meeting. So then a little while later, 106 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,640 she sent me a note. She goes, oh, don't worry, I 107 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:38,040 found it on your blog. I'm like, Yep, that's how it is. 108 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,520 So yeah, So then started writing my blog. 109 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,440 And the world changed after that. 110 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,200 And I just was convinced up until that point that maybe I'm 111 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,000 just going to be broke forever. Maybe I'm going to have to marry 112 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:54,000 money in order to have it. I started writing my blog and 113 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,800 that's when the world changed and now I have a 7 figure 114 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,280 business training and teaching homeowners and designers how to 115 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:05,000 choose paint colors, how to choose finishes for everything 116 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,720 in the home, how to do that in a timeless way. 117 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,520 I think one of the reasons why people, they find me because 118 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,320 they're looking for paint color and then they, one of the 119 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,200 reasons they stay is they're intrigued by the whole timeless 120 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,040 conversation because nobody talks about that. 121 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,640 You know, most designers are just like going to trade events, 122 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,440 for example, like they want to get up on what's trending so 123 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,080 they can put that in their clients homes. 124 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,360 And my philosophy is very different from that. 125 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,120 So, so that's that's kind of long, but. 126 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:36,480 Anyway, Well, yeah, so then you took that course on color and 127 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,640 then just started did did you fall in love with color? 128 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:40,800 Did you like? I did. 129 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:43,000 With you like because I. Totally did. 130 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,880 Yeah, they can't see those undertones sometimes and I 131 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,200 think. Well, I mean, yeah, Fast forward 132 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,000 after I did that, I started working at a Benjamin Moore 133 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,800 store and then I started painting up these 8 1/2 by 11 134 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,560 boards, which I still sell on my website today, a collection of 135 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,000 50 neutrals and whites. And it comes with my 136 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,240 understanding undertones, color wheel that I invented. 137 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,440 Yeah. And so I started to do color 138 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,960 consultations using those big boards because that's what she 139 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:11,240 did. You know, what I learned in this 140 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,960 course in San Francisco was that she would paint up these huge 141 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,520 boards and leave them in people's homes. 142 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,000 Well, I couldn't do that. So I started painting up the 143 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,760 bigger samples. And you can't actually make the 144 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:25,840 correct choice in the minutiae of the correct and most useful 145 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,120 neutrals unless you have a big sample to compare. 146 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,600 Like you need to be able to pull out those big neutrals, pull out 147 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:36,360 a range to go, oh, OK, yeah, this is pink beige, not green 148 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,720 beige. Oh, this is, you know, taupe, 149 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,640 not Violet, grey. Because the minutiae of useful 150 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,760 neutrals is really small and finite. 151 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,760 Because one thing I noticed when I was doing color consultation 152 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,600 after color consultation, I mean, I've done now I've been 153 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,200 like, really, I've been in over 20,000 homes now in my career, 154 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,560 like virtually and in person. So what I've noticed is all the 155 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,000 good neutrals were always like, they always came back to the 156 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,680 same ones. Like I'd walk into someone's 157 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,280 house and plunk down Manchester Town and again, that would be 158 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:08,720 the right color. That would be the right one. 159 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,880 And I'd be like, OK, really. Like there's a system here. 160 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,320 So that's how the system was kind of born was because I just 161 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,120 noticed like which neutrals I was using over and over and over 162 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,720 again. So color is actually way easier 163 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,200 than people think it is. I mean, and it's not designers. 164 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,560 It's not their fault nobody learns practical real world 165 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,039 color in design school. You learn a little bit of color 166 00:08:33,039 --> 00:08:35,320 theory, which is not useful at all. 167 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,240 Nobody actually walks into anyone's house and says, I think 168 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,640 I'm going to do a split complementary triad here. 169 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,160 Like, no one's doing that. That's not the way that you use 170 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:47,120 colors. Right. 171 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,000 Yeah. So yeah. 172 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:54,080 So you have a color wheel of neutrals, which I think is 173 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,080 really handy. Are those then your favorite? 174 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,840 Yeah, so these are they're, they connect to like 50 neutrals and 175 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,840 whites, which basically are light, are the light to darks. 176 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,120 But so each section has a range of light to darks of the most 177 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,400 useful ones. And they're in the same like 178 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,040 range of value as well, right. It's not like there's three 179 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:19,520 wildly different green beiges, like they are the same from 180 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,440 light to dark. So, you know, they're just the 181 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,600 ones that whenever you need a green beige, whenever you need 182 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,400 like that pink beige, you pull them out of the collection. 183 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,200 Basically, when you have my collection of 50 samples, they 184 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,800 just pick the color for you. It's a no brainer. 185 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,960 So yeah, I mean, and beige is back and as you know. 186 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:38,120 Right. Yeah. 187 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:40,720 And when I started thinking about beige being back, I 188 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:45,240 thought it's been 16 years officially since beige has been 189 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,840 back. So there's a lot of designers 190 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:52,000 that have had a really good career already, like a good run, 191 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,960 but have been choosing all the cool Grays and whites for 16 192 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,640 years. So I mean, they're going to be 193 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,720 rusty on the world of beige and well, that's where that's when I 194 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,120 where I come in, right. So yeah. 195 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:11,880 OK, so you have this grasp on the neutrals colors, but I'm 196 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,680 sure when you're decorating and advising on color, it's not just 197 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:17,240 everything neutrals, right? You're. 198 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,640 Incorporating color. So talk about that. 199 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,840 Yeah, so I'm the neutral queen, but I'm also the color queen 200 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,280 because the other part of my training, this is the part that 201 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,520 I actually learned in San Francisco, which was super 202 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,760 valuable, and that is that all colors can be described in three 203 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:34,400 ways. They're always light or dark, 204 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,160 clean or dirty, cool or warm. And so clean and dirty is 205 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,320 actually, once you understand that distinction, like if 206 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,400 anyone's been reading my blog, they would have kind of gotten a 207 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,600 sense of it. But you really go deep on clean 208 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,680 and dirty in my courses and that's when you really 209 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:53,080 understand how how to create flow, how to create that 210 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,400 cohesion that everybody wants from one room to the other. 211 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,640 And people are afraid of color like they just are, especially N 212 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,840 Americans are just wildly afraid of color. 213 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,640 So my job, you know, what my goal is in this world is to just 214 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:10,400 bring more joy into people's homes. 215 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,000 That's and that's the other thing I'm doing with my I've 216 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:14,800 recently rebranded my YouTube channel. 217 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,560 So now I'm doing this decorator renovate one day makeovers. 218 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:23,480 But basically it's to show that people are so like, because a 219 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:25,480 lot of people, if you don't know how to decorate, it's not 220 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:27,440 everybody's skill. If you don't know how to style, 221 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,400 what you can see is OK, my bathroom is dated. 222 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:34,360 Oh, my kitchen is ugly. OK, I need to RIP it out, right? 223 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:38,720 But in a lot of cases, both of these spaces just need some 224 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,080 creativity. Maybe the countertop needs to be 225 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:42,680 replaced, like maybe it's the backsplash. 226 00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:44,280 Maybe we just need to paint the cabinets too. 227 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,360 And but in a lot of cases, you know, I think a lot of people 228 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,200 would be so much happier if they had like a decorated living 229 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:51,560 room. Because I'm looking at these 230 00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:54,080 submissions that I'm getting from people that, you know, are 231 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,360 like, hey, come to my house and do a one day makeover. 232 00:11:56,680 --> 00:12:00,000 It's like everybody has a grey, the grey world, like everybody's 233 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,960 got like a collection of grey furniture. 234 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,400 And that's. And on the other hand, like 235 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,440 nothing brings Gray to life faster than color. 236 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,560 So boom, you can easily add color to an all Gray room and 237 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,920 totally bring it to life. That's what I love to do. 238 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,520 Like, really, between you and me, like if I could just style 239 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,720 homes all day long, that's what I want to do. 240 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,560 But I can't make enough money doing that yet. 241 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:29,840 I want to be as Mr. Big in the world of one day makeovers 242 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,480 because they're so fulfilling. And that's funny because that's 243 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,240 how I started. I started my business called One 244 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,480 Day Design. I was moving furniture around 245 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,400 and doing these one day makeovers. 246 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:44,320 And now I've come full circle 25 years later and or 28 years. 247 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,200 Oh my gosh, like I'm 58. Yeah. 248 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:51,080 So 28 years later, that is what I'm doing now on my channel. 249 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,440 So yeah, I'd love to show how you can really make a room come 250 00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:01,360 to life with color using or even a neutral room can come to life 251 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:06,040 with texture and contrast and interesting shapes. 252 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,720 And those are the things that you need to keep in mind when 253 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:10,240 you are decorating A neutral room. 254 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,280 So yeah, so color is definitely, there is a trick to picking 255 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,440 color that's actually way easier than picking a neutral. 256 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,120 Like you don't really need the big samples as desperately as 257 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,480 you need the bigger samples in neutrals. 258 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,640 And I teach people in my courses how to do that. 259 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:30,160 So, yeah, what I need to learn, Rebecca, is simplifying my 260 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,280 message a little bit. You know, not only can I 261 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,040 decorate your house, but, you know, I can style it and then I 262 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,360 can pick all the paint colors for it, and then I can help you 263 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:42,800 pick all the finishes for it. And by the way, I'm obsessed 264 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,480 with fashion as well. I can help you with that. 265 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,440 And by the way, I have a fabulous garden. 266 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,320 I can help you with that. Like it's I'm doing too many 267 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,320 things I think. Multi passionate A lot of 268 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,360 creatives are so. It's hard. 269 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:58,600 Hard to streamline. Yeah, well, the listeners can't 270 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,120 see all the color that I'm looking at right now. 271 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,040 Talking to Murray. Just got a gold sweater, coral 272 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,600 necklaces and green curtains in the background is just so 273 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,880 colorful. And I love the way it all comes 274 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:13,320 together. So we do talk a lot about 275 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:18,080 timelessness, and there's the mindset that goes around that, 276 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,680 and I'm sure you train designers how to do that, but you talk a 277 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,200 lot to homeowners about that, too. 278 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,880 What are your top tips, I guess, for creating a timeless space? 279 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,960 Because it seems like as a designer myself, I think most 280 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,120 clients I talk to, they're like, oh, I want it to be really 281 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:34,720 timeless. But then they tell me all these 282 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,280 things that they've seen that are trending that they want in 283 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:38,520 their home. So. 284 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,440 So how do we approach timelessness? 285 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,240 I actually think, and this is one of the things that I tell my 286 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,160 students that I encourage my students to do, is to take all 287 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,080 of the things that are trending right now. 288 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,480 Because what happens with every trend, Like right now we're 289 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,560 moving into the warm neutral English country kitchen trend 290 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,200 and that's what everybody wants. And we're throwing up because 291 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,560 we've gone from like, we actually have been doing a 292 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,160 little more of a like, it's been easier to sell timeless through 293 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,280 the Gray trend than the black and white trend because 294 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,200 everybody was just doing like white marble. 295 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,880 Yes, that is a timeless countertop. 10 years from now 296 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,520 when everyone hates Viola marble because they've seen it 297 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:27,040 butchered in so many, many, many homes and builders are doing it 298 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:30,800 so badly, everybody's going to hate it. 299 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,400 They're going to hate it. Right now, most people, you 300 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:36,480 know, all the celebrity designers are doing it 301 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,120 beautifully. They burkas and all the things 302 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,440 you're like looking at and people grab on to those, to 303 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:46,080 those inspiration photos and then they go shopping. 304 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:50,120 But the problem is that they're on a big budget. 305 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,120 They start making purchases based on the budget. 306 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,000 And I just posted this yesterday on my Instagram, right where 307 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,680 somebody can, oh, here's my 12 by 12 Viola marble tile that I'm 308 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,360 going to throw up in my bathroom. 309 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:07,920 But the one that Nate Burkett's dead is a full slab, so it 310 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:12,880 didn't end up busy and blotchy and nasty like the one that you 311 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,600 end up with because your budget became a factor. 312 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,040 About a year ago, a little more than a year ago now, I met Brent 313 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,800 Hall who wrote Where is this book? 314 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,960 I actually have it on my counter building a timeless home in an 315 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,040 instant age. And he said that beautiful 316 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,080 design has been kicked to the curb and the homeowner goes out 317 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,080 shopping and they end up making all these choices based on their 318 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,440 budget. And The thing is, is that people 319 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,480 say timeless. It's like a loosely thrown 320 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,640 around word, as you were saying, but when the homeowner isn't, 321 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:47,480 they're not in the business, right. 322 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,720 So when the homeowner starts to become aware of design, it's 323 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,040 when they're start, they start working on a project. 324 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,480 So then they start, you know, and maybe they're at their 325 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,960 friend's house or maybe they go travelling and they go to a 326 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,760 hotel and they start to see like, OK, like they start to see 327 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,200 that they look at the world from a different lens because the 328 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,359 lens they're looking at it through is, OK, I'm doing a 329 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:09,800 renovation. Like what do I want it to look 330 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,640 like? So then they think that because 331 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,880 the trendy neutral always seems like it's, it's totally 332 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,800 timeless, right? Like black, white. 333 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,480 Oh my gosh. I mean, doesn't every room need 334 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:28,359 a hit of black totally timeless until it's completely overused, 335 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,960 until it's the only hardware choice that anyone slaps on 336 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,480 their cabinets in their kitchens and their bathrooms. 337 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:36,760 I was just looking at one yesterday. 338 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,400 A designer or somebody, a follower had sent me this, a 339 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:42,480 kitchen that was all white countertops with like a pink 340 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,800 beige stain on the cabinet. So she's like, why does this 341 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,480 bother me so much? And then there was these 6 inch 342 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,040 black poles, like from out of nowhere. 343 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,440 There was no black in his kitchen, but it had black poles. 344 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,720 And that's exactly what happens. The trends get big and then 345 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,720 everybody adopts them, but they don't know how to take them and 346 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,080 put them in their house. So then they just throw in 347 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,000 what's trending. Like right now everyone's 348 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,320 starting to do is they put in the Viola marble shower, then 349 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,560 they put in the pink beige floor. 350 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,560 But the pink beige in no way relates to the Viola marble. 351 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:21,240 But beige to people is, is they see that number one, they see it 352 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,760 as neutral and #2 pink beige looks kind of creamy when it's 353 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,960 on a small scale until you install it. 354 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,080 And wow, now I got pink beige floors and pink beige is, is 355 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,680 always the default neutral in, in the beige trend, right? 356 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:36,400 Just like taupe was the default neutral in the great trend 357 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,960 because taupe is warmer than all the Grays, but it's cooler than 358 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,400 all the beiges. And so there's always a default 359 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,280 neutral that everybody chooses. And then that's how their house 360 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,520 ends up being a hot mess. So if you follow my advice, 361 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,480 which is to keep your finishes, you know, in the world of like 362 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,200 whites and creams and now you can like, you know, maybe a 363 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,360 little bit of black and white, like a little black and white 364 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,160 small scale tile, like some basket weave in your bathroom, 365 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,680 like and introduce it and sparingly. 366 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,360 Now you can change up your bathroom or your kitchen 367 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:08,600 whenever you want. You can just paint the walls, 368 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,720 You can replace the wallpaper like it becomes a thing of joy 369 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,120 and beauty forever. Instead of what people are doing 370 00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,760 right now is they're throwing in everything because the trend, 371 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,320 the pendulum has moved from black and white and and 372 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,640 relatively simple, unless you overdo it with the black to now 373 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,440 we're back to like Taj Mahal and Viola marble and people are 374 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,160 craving like warmth and they and the and we're back to pattern, 375 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,600 big busy patterns. So we're right back to the 376 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,040 Tuscan trend when everybody put in property and tile everywhere 377 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,920 with a gold countertop. First of all, that was a flash, 378 00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:42,600 right? But that became the default 379 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,040 kitchen of the Tuscan trend and bathroom. 380 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,720 And it was done wrong over and over and over and over again. 381 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,840 And that same thing's going to happen now. 382 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,080 And it's happening, starting to happen already, like, and you 383 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,560 know, and that's how the cycle goes. 384 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,600 And then the next homeowner hates their house. 385 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,000 Or if you live in your house long enough, you then hate that 386 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,040 trendy stuff he put in because you're married to those bossy 387 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:05,760 neutrals. Forever. 388 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,240 Forever you have to work with you get a big blotchy countertop 389 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:12,920 in your kitchen like. You're stuck with that color 390 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,280 scheme forever. There's nothing you can do. 391 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,440 And so you like it in the beginning, but then after the 392 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,280 trend is over now I hate it. So yeah, that's and that's how 393 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,480 the cycle goes and everything gets thrown in the landfill. 394 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,040 So really what I teach is sustainable just because it's 395 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,360 timeless. People talk about sustainable 396 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:32,920 design, but what's sustainable is not having to renovate every 397 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,920 10 years. That's just more sustainable 398 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,320 than anything else. Yeah, 'cause it made me think of 399 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:43,360 also wood stain colors where like there was a time when red 400 00:20:43,360 --> 00:20:48,040 mahogany floors and cabinets were all the things. 401 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,720 You can't do a lot with that. It has to stay so warm with your 402 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:54,720 paint colors and everything. That's a challenge. 403 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,960 So making sure that you go with more neutral stain colors, you 404 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:01,800 can do that's all. Yeah, you know, make it 405 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:03,240 timeless. That's right. 406 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,720 Yeah, totally. Wow. 407 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,240 Yeah. And I think probably underlying 408 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,720 all of what you just said is that the homeowners need to 409 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,480 recognize that they should get an expert on the job to help 410 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,160 steer them away from just grabbing those trends that they 411 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,920 don't know how to implement properly. 412 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:24,280 Yes. 100%, yeah. I mean, we work with clients, my 413 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:27,120 E design department and I, there's, I have 5 team members, 414 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,680 color designers and we put together new belts, renovations, 415 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,600 kitchens, bathroom packages for clients all over North America. 416 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,680 So what's different about what I do than what a full service 417 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,120 designer does? A full service designer, they 418 00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:41,960 collect all the samples for you. They design all the middle work 419 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,600 for you, all the picture molding that everyone's in love with 420 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,520 right now. Like a full service designer is 421 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:49,120 going to do that and they're going to charge you anywhere 422 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:54,240 from 7 to $12.00 a square foot versus just buying the DIY color 423 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,120 slash finish package For me, like it's the difference is like 424 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:02,800 $7500 versus $50,000 and more. So you can sleep at night, you 425 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,080 have Peace of Mind, you've got the packages, all the details 426 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,200 all laid out and that is 100%. You got to have a guidepost. 427 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,200 Otherwise you easily will get distracted by the next 428 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,120 inspiration photo you see on Pinterest and then a lot of or 429 00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:20,280 on Instagram and people don't know right now. 430 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,840 I mean, you know, we're getting a lot of AI images as 431 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,880 inspiration in RE design department or people are sending 432 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:31,200 in primarily AI images. Well, they're like completely 433 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,120 unrealistic. AI does not have your budget in 434 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:38,920 mind and, and, and it's filled with picture molding everywhere 435 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,160 and people don't even realize why they actually love that 436 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,640 image as much as they do, but they also don't realize how 437 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,320 expensive millwork and picture molding actually is. 438 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,400 But we're moving away from the white box and that's why the 439 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,360 world of traditional design and traditional elements like all of 440 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:01,280 this molding is now suddenly trending in a big way as well. 441 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,560 I think we had a two or three-year moment through the 442 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,600 Gray trend whenever, when everybody was doing like they 443 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,960 were just slapping up geometric molding on an accent wall and 444 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,920 painting it. That was a thing for a while to 445 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,040 try to add some interest to the white room. 446 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,160 Right? Yeah. 447 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:18,720 Yeah. OK. 448 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:24,200 So what is lighting you up right now as you see creatively or 449 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,760 like if there's a trend that you actually might like that's 450 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,720 coming down? I know we're recording this 451 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,640 early in the year and the Pantone color of the year is 452 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,280 Cloud Dancer, which again is white. 453 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,240 What's your hot take on that? Well, I, I don't actually 454 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,320 understand why white would have ever been chosen. 455 00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,960 I think that that trend is done and dusted. 456 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,520 I think that from what I understand, from what I know 457 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,160 about, like what I've been told about one of the reasons that a 458 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,000 new color gets chosen is because people are requesting it. 459 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,160 It's a color they don't have in their deck and they add it to 460 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:58,920 the deck. But I can't imagine that like a 461 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,720 barely there grayed out white is going to be in that category. 462 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,960 I just think that we've had enough of the white box. 463 00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:09,640 We're like 9 years into the black and white trend right now. 464 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,400 Like that trend is, is over. I mean, we're moving on. 465 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,280 We've, I mean, you couldn't buy a burgundy, throw a pillow. 466 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,280 Like I'm not off the shelf like this Christmas, especially when 467 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,160 Ralph Lauren Christmas started to be like pitched everywhere by 468 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:26,760 all the influencers. I mean, it's amazing how long it 469 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,840 took actually for burgundy to come in because I've been 470 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,760 pulling burgundy out of dining rooms for decades. 471 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,200 But it's back in again and everyone loves it. 472 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,720 Brown is back, you know, and it took six years for brown to come 473 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,760 back. We had to really forget what it 474 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,960 used to look like in the Tuscan house. 475 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,400 And we 2 Dec 2 trend cycles later, you know, from the brown 476 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,360 trend to the Gray trend, the black and white trend, we're 477 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:49,960 back to brown. Like, well, we're back to beige 478 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,320 is where we're at. I mean brown, I don't see brown 479 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,600 becoming as big right now as beige. 480 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,000 Is it? Yeah, beige is it. 481 00:24:57,120 --> 00:24:59,600 That's that's what we're doing to warm it all up. 482 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,640 So I'm excited about the fact that color is back. 483 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,000 I'm excited about the fact that beige is back because everybody 484 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,280 will come running and do my work because they don't understand 485 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,480 it. And, and that makes me happy. 486 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,200 And I'm also excited about my when they makeover shows on 487 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,120 YouTube. And yeah, so that's that's. 488 00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:21,960 Wonderful. OK, well then let's tell 489 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,880 everybody how they can learn more from you. 490 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,320 So you talked about your blog and what's the name of that? 491 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:34,840 Mariakillam.com OK, KILL AM and yeah, you can also find me on 492 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,640 Instagram. Pat Maria Killam Yeah. 493 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,560 And then there's this is coming out in April. 494 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:41,760 I have a course in Chicago for designers. 495 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,880 Chicago's training is make 14th and 15th, so if you'd like to 496 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:52,400 Polish up on your color skills and beige skills or you want to 497 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,200 create a side hustle and that's the place to be. 498 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,720 Yeah, Well, definitely, yeah. And I think that you first came 499 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,280 on my radar. A colleague of mine here in 500 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,080 Sacramento, I think, took your class and told me about how she 501 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,920 learned so much about like, reading the undertones because 502 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,200 she was a newer designer and really didn't have experience 503 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,800 with color. And she really appreciated that 504 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,520 class. So that's when I first heard of 505 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:20,200 you, but that was years ago now. So yeah. 506 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,480 So, but I, I really do appreciate following your 507 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,960 Instagram account and I'm going to check out your YouTube 508 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,520 channel. Everybody loves the makeover, 509 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,280 right? So. 510 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,240 Yeah, for. Sure. 511 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,120 Great. And we'll put all of your 512 00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:40,920 contact information in the show notes for everybody to find you. 513 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,560 But thank you so much, Maria, for coming on today. 514 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:53,440 Thank you so much for having me. So you're definitely going to 515 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,360 want to check out all that she has to offer. 516 00:26:56,360 --> 00:26:59,360 Links are in the show notes. Maybe you want to just follow 517 00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:03,000 her on Instagram, which is a lot of fun, or take one of her 518 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,240 classes in person or just check out more of her resources for 519 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,480 understanding undertones, which is very, very important as well. 520 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,560 All that for you in the show notes. 521 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,040 And don't forget, we have that webinar replay for you to 522 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:21,800 download from Passion to Profit if you are interested in that in 523 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,360 the show notes as well. And of course, I would love to 524 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:27,800 work with you one-on-one in my design mentor if you're looking 525 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,160 for mentorship in the design career. 526 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,600 All right, that's all I have for you this week. 527 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,040 Next week we'll have another great episode. 528 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,680 And until then, stay creative. Thanks for listening. 529 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,040 If you love this episode, please leave a rating and a review. 530 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,040 This helps me reach other curious creatives like you. 531 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,200 If you have a topic request or would like to contact me, simply 532 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,680 head over to my website ourawarddesign.com or e-mail me 533 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,840 at podcast@ourawarddesign.com.