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Hello, and welcome to episode 
35, designed curious podcast, 

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I'm your host and Mentor. 
Rebecca Ward, and today we have 

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an interview with Jill. 
Hornbeck, who is an instructor 

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at Las Positas? 
College since 2001 and I love 

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having the conversation with 
someone in Academia and from a 

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community college program to 
really give us insight to see if

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that's a Direction. 
That you want to go as you're 

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thinking about becoming an 
interior designer. 

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So let me get into a little bit 
more about Jill. 

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But first, I want to share with 
you that we have a free download

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for you on the three things. 
I wish I had known when I 

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started out as an interior 
designer and you can find out 

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what those three things are in 
the link in our show notes and 

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that will put you on the mailing
list so you'll get the podcast 

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email every week into your inbox
so you won't miss an episode and

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And any bonus content that I 
occasionally sent out, you'll 

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get as well and just stay up to 
date on all the things and 

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information about my design 
Mentor. 

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So go ahead and get that 
download. 

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And now let's learn a little 
more about who Jill is. 

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And why she's here today? 
She has a Bachelor of Science in

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interior design from UC Davis. 
She also has an MBA marketing 

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from Cal State East Bay, she's 
the owner of ever Interiors in 

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Livermore, which she started in 
1992. 

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And she's been teaching at Las 
Positas College since 2001. 

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Jill, Hornbeck has always wanted
to be an architect and then 

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found working with colors and 
Furniture was a lot more 

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interesting than designing 
houses and buildings after UC 

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Davis. 
She worked at an interior 

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design, firm doing model homes 
and residential design. 

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She then worked for a Home 
Building Company as a marketing 

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coordinator working with the 
sales office doing graphics and 

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public relations. 
Along with teaching at LPC, 

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Johan back runs her own interior
design business and has three 

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children. 
Her advice to potential students

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is to get experience right away.
And there's a lot of awareness 

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about this industry. 
Thanks to HGTV and you need to 

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show that you understand. 
It's more than just putting 

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samples on a board, the 
products, and interior designer 

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more complex and people realize.
So having the experience with 

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products and clients will help 
you build confidence in your 

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design skills and your ability 
to communicate with the many 

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people you will encounter. 
And And in our conversation, I 

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can just tell that she is an 
amazing instructor. 

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I would have loved to take in a 
classroom, her but I did learn a

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lot from her in this episode, 
and I think you will too. 

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So, let's get into our 
interview. 

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You're now listening to design, 
curious a place where you 

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creative one are here to learn 
about what it really is. 

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Like, to be an interior designer
and I'm your host and Mentor 

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Rebecca, Ward, if you're worried
about how, Succeed in a creative

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career, if you're ready to learn
your next steps to become an 

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Interior Designer. 
And if you want the satisfaction

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of doing something you love 
every day, you are in the right 

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place, grab a coffee, a 
notebook, and let's dig into 

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today's episode. 
Hi, Jill. 

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Welcome to design carriers 
podcast. 

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So, glad to have you here. 
Thank you, Rebecca for having 

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me. 
Yeah, so I'm really interested 

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to hear how you became an 
interior designer for our 

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audience. 
Won't you tell us a little bit 

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about where you're located and 
what you're currently doing. 

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Okay again, my name is Jill 
Hornbeck and I'm located in 

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Livermore, California. 
I am an interior designer and 

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have been a designer for over 30
years. 

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I I absolutely love interior 
design. 

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I got started actually in my 
local high school, I liked 

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taking the drafting classes and 
I did a few classes at the 

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Academy of Art College between 
my Junior and senior year in 

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high school. 
And I knew that's what I wanted 

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to do. 
Okay? 

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So I went off to. 
Yeah, I went off to the UC 

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Davis, they had a wonderful 
design program. 

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You could kind of emphasize and 
Interiors, or graphic. 

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And I went there for just Her 
for years. 

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I did a lot of internships and 
that's a really important part 

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of finding out, if it's a 
profession that you want to get 

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into. 
So summertime, I would come 

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home, and I worked for designers
up in San Ramon, and Danville. 

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And that way, I also got units 
towards my education. 

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Right? 
And upon graduating from Davis, 

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one of the internships I had 
done was a co-op and a design 

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Co-op is an excellent 
opportunity for designers. 

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Starting out because Cuz there 
were six of us that owned our 

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own design firms and we met with
clients that we got through 

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networking and references and 
referrals from clients existing 

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and we never were competing with
one another for business. 

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So it was a great camaraderie 
where we'd meet at lunch and, 

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you know, ask questions of how 
do you handle this and has 

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anyone seen a polka dot with, 
you know, pink dots and right? 

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Someone, you know, had One just 
the day before. 

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And so a lot of just very 
helpful designers working 

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together at the same time, I was
working for it was a Campbell's 

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carpets, which is a contractor 
that was meeting with home 

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buyers, that would buy new homes
and we would meet with them and 

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pick out Carpeting and pad and 
tile and vinyl at those days. 

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And I would meet with new home 
buyers everywhere from Benicia 

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which is what is our 
headquarters? 

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All the Way down to San Jose, 
San Francisco, out to Tracy. 

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So, that was kind of my weekend,
especially my weekend job in the

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coop to, it was really nice. 
If there was a big job that 

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someone was doing, they would 
ask of designers to join them. 

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Okay? 
And so for example, I did model 

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homes that way because it would 
be hard for one person for show 

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you all home. 
So, there are three of us that 

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would go in as kind of 
contractors with each other and 

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do model homes. 
All around to Reno and the 

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valley, the Central Valley and 
so forth. 

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So that was an excellent 
opportunity at that time. 

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I was also getting my master's 
degree in marketing so I have a 

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masters from Cal State East Bay 
so I was also getting married so

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it was kind of time to to think 
about doing something as one job

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instead of a bunch of jocks. 
So I went to work for a home 

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builder out and Tracy there was 
called Sir land homes. 

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They were A small home builder. 
And I was marketing coordinator 

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since that was my Master's 
Degree. 

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So I had a fantastic site on the
other opportunities, to 

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interview designers, to do 
mom's. 

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Oh yeah, yeah. 
So it was fun to be on the 

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opposite side and see their 
design talent. 

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And so we put together 
everything from the sales office

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to the models, to merchandising 
the models with the designers to

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selling the homes and doing 
focus groups for marketing. 

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And so forth from there, I ended
up going to another Builder up 

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in Danville called Braddock and 
Logan and they're also for a 

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marketing coordinator position 
and a lot the same kind of 

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thing. 
We did a lot of infill projects 

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which are basically like 
supermarkets that have gotten, 

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you know, foreclosed or whatever
that land. 

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And so they would come in and 
buy that and build, you know, 

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small 2030, you know, 10 
Townhomes or single family homes

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in different locations. 
So the same kind of thing to, 

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the lot of the marketing part of
that I was still at the same 

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time doing my own design 
business, because that's okay. 

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The wonderful thing about 
interior design, you can bring 

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it home, you can take it to a 
studio, you can, you know, be on

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the road with it. 
So at that point, I started 

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having my family, so it meant me
moving my business home. 

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So, I did a lot of just 
residential clients out of my 

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home and also teaching at Las 
Positas College. 

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So I Again there in 2001 as a 
design instructor and have been 

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there ever since. 
So, I teach about two classes, a

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semester there. 
And yeah, so it's a awesome 

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opportunity to be also seeing 
all the product as a teacher 

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making sure that the students 
understand the use for the 

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different items. 
So, I was doing that, and I also

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ended up picking up Kenyatta 
College there in Redwood City 

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alone. 
Ecollege in Fremont. 

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Aunt Chabot College in Hayward 
and so Hawarden the Chabot 

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College and Las Positas are like
that. 

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They would call Sister colleges 
came out, dancing District, so I

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actually am teaching there again
next semester, another 

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professional practices class so 
I just love interior design. 

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I have probably 10 to 15 clients
a year just with doing the 

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teaching part of the job as well
and everything's done by 

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referrals previous clients or 
friends. 

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Friends kind of thing. 
So, okay, I'll see you in a 

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nutshell how I got started. 
Yeah, that's quite a journey 

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going back in your story. 
I was interested to understand 

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why you chose to get a masters 
in marketing, what led you that 

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direction, if you knew like 
design was always the thing for 

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you but marketing. 
Yeah, that's the competition in 

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me. 
So, my sister was going to get 

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her master's and I thought, oh 
no, there's just, no way she 

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could have a masters and not 
movies. 

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So that was really my push for 
that, which she became a teacher

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as well. 
So that money part without a 

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master's, you can't teach at a 
community college. 

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So in a sense that gave me the 
opportunity to be teaching in 

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that position, and then I chose 
marketing just because it was so

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closely related to models. 
And you know, the home building 

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industry which was also, you 
know, the direction I took. 

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So do you think the Getting also
helps you with your own design 

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business because we have to do a
lot of marketing of our own 

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businesses. 
So have you found any of that 

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education kind of pull over to 
your personal business? 

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Or is it just that it was a 
stepping stone to get you a 

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teaching position? 
No, I absolutely feel like it's 

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very related. 
Okay. 

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Our presentation skills, how we 
present our self, you know? 

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And our design ideas, I would 
Definitely say the first company

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I work for, she was the 
marketing. 

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Director was very into 
presentation of yourself as well

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as your materials. 
So I think that really kind of 

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gave me the eye opening 
experience that, you know, being

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professional presenting, your 
work clients expectation is that

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we are very creative and all 
avenues. 

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So we can't have some great 
ideas but not a great way to 

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show them, so I I definitely 
think that has helped me venture

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out and making sure that what 
I'm presenting is is something 

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that the client finds 
professional and so forth. 

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Hmm. 
And then do you bring in that 

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marketing to your business 
practices class that you teach 

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as a part of the oh yeah, yeah 
most definitely because a lot of

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what we do is work with our 
client profile that's who our 

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client is what their needs 
wants, their lifestyle. 

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I'll and so it's definitely an 
area that we question our 

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clients as to the direction and 
what they think of things. 

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So we definitely have to Market 
our ideas to what their needs 

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are. 
Hmm. 

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When you then decided to take 
your business home and leave the

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coop. 
Did you find that challenging 

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not to have that collaborative? 
Circle of designers around you 

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anymore? 
Or did you still go back there 

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or connect with them frequently 
to get that feedback? 

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Yeah. 
Definitely, it is hard to be in 

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your home away from colleagues. 
I think at the time I really was

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I scale back with selling of 
product and went to more 

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Consulting. 
So I think with doing more 

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design from home, what designers
have to really think about is 

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their resources. 
So I would say resources in 

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terms of colleagues as well as 
the products that they can 

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purchase. 
So I think that helped a lot 

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because it Is basically a going 
out in Consulting with clients 

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in terms of space planning 
measuring design, but I wasn't 

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selling product. 
Anyway, just because really as a

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designer to be full time is when
you can sell those type of 

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things. 
When your part-time, you don't 

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have as much Avenues and 
abilities to go out and find 

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things to sell to other people. 
Okay? 

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So yeah, okay. 
So going to the education part 

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of becoming an Designer. 
You are teaching at several 

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different colleges currently our
community. 

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Colleges, how do you find that 
the program at the colleges that

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you're working at different from
UC Davis, where you attended 

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would you recommend one or over 
the other if someone like it's 

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just coming out of high school 
as opposed to starting over in 

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their second career. 
So great question. 

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I Ponder this a lot because I 
think you and you leave high 

230
00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:50,400
school and go directly to Age 
you go for a couple of different

231
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:55,500
reasons so for me to go directly
off to a four-year College, it 

232
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was just the Avenue that I felt 
was best for me, I would say 

233
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education-wise it was probably 
not as practical of an education

234
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,200
curriculum. 
As I would say, I definitely 

235
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direct myself to teach more 
practicalities in Community 

236
00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:19,100
College. 
I think that's probably Yes, 

237
00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:22,400
with some of the four years and 
especially a you see program and

238
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I another classmate of mine left
and went to UCLA to do landscape

239
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,700
architecture and she and I 
talked about the same thing. 

240
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We both felt like we came out of
a very nice degreed school but 

241
00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:43,100
probably not as useful tangible 
practical knowledge behind us to

242
00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:48,100
say hey we're off and running. 
Yeah so I think that's probably 

243
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:53,100
the biggest First thing I see in
the way that I teach is that we 

244
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absolutely do client profiles, 
we practice presenting to 

245
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clients, we often use real 
clients, either, I have the 

246
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:07,800
students find them on next door 
or use a family friend, but not 

247
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themselves because we always 
tend to design differently for 

248
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:16,400
ourselves and having someone who
has absolute clear constraints, 

249
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,700
I have a Saint Bernard, I want 
white. 

250
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:22,900
B, I have 10 kids and I don't 
want to clean, you know? 

251
00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:25,900
That is our typical client. 
Not. 

252
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,700
Oh, I have lots of money. 
I want my place to look pretty. 

253
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:33,600
I have a cleaner that comes in 
every day, the sky's the limit 

254
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:38,500
that is never our client, right?
So I definitely, you know, try 

255
00:15:38,500 --> 00:15:44,300
to get students to understand 
that we have to design around 

256
00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:47,700
constraints and problem-solve 
often times. 

257
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:51,900
So I I would say that's the 
biggest thing that I try to get 

258
00:15:51,900 --> 00:15:55,600
across and measuring. 
I mean I have to be honest. 

259
00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:59,200
That is a struggle for people 
all the time. 

260
00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:02,100
Yeah. 
So is measuring with a tape 

261
00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:06,700
measure and then scaling things 
out so we go over that quite a 

262
00:16:06,708 --> 00:16:09,800
bit. 
So most of my students at the 

263
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,500
community college's, I would say
80% or what? 

264
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:14,900
I call re-entry. 
So they've been someplace else 

265
00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:18,100
and a career or education and 
now they're coming back to a 

266
00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:21,100
passion. 
Our a change of career, I would 

267
00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:25,600
say the other 20% are out of 
high school and I will often 

268
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,700
times encourage them to do two 
years and transfer just because 

269
00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:34,600
I feel at 18 and 22, it's a 
great time to spend time out of 

270
00:16:34,608 --> 00:16:38,300
four year degree, mmm-hmm for 
whatever that you'd like you 

271
00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:44,800
know to have as a career for the
students at a re-entry they have

272
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,000
something already. 
I usually have them do like a 

273
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,400
certificate program. 
And that's our 10 classes and 

274
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,700
most of the colleges so that 
they have already some 

275
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:57,100
education. 
I guess. 

276
00:16:57,100 --> 00:16:59,300
The other biggest thing is, I 
try to have them do an 

277
00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:01,400
internship. 
I just remember some of the 

278
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,000
students say, oh, I have classes
and then I go into this and I 

279
00:17:05,008 --> 00:17:07,800
don't really like, I was doing 
great. 

280
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,200
It's better today than in four 
years. 

281
00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,800
Yes, exactly. 
Yeah. 

282
00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:17,800
So I definitely kind of approach
different based on the age of my

283
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,599
students that You know, I could 
see like go off and get a 

284
00:17:21,608 --> 00:17:24,400
four-year. 
Stay do your certificate start 

285
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:25,700
working. 
Hmm. 

286
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:30,900
So real good with the curriculum
at your colleges more 

287
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:34,100
residentially focused. 
I don't know if you found an 

288
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:37,600
easy Davis, if you had a lot of 
commercially focused classes or 

289
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,600
not, but I tend to see that the 
four-year degrees are really 

290
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,600
geared towards working in a more
commercial environment, whereas 

291
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,600
the community colleges might 
have more residential Classes as

292
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,200
an offering. 
Yeah, that's a great question. 

293
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,000
I would say at Davis, it was 
definitely a 50/50 residential 

294
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,100
and Commercial, I would say that
most of the community colleges, 

295
00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:03,000
it is more of a residential 
program. 

296
00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:06,200
I have another classmate that 
went to Cal Poly and she does 

297
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,100
commercial interior design and 
that at that time that they were

298
00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:12,300
offering. 
Like I said, more like you said 

299
00:18:12,300 --> 00:18:16,400
to four-year colleges have kind 
of a blend of that. 

300
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:20,500
So I think the other two About 
that is that if you're a 

301
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:25,000
re-entry student you might be 
looking at doing self-employed. 

302
00:18:25,300 --> 00:18:28,100
So you tend to find yourself 
doing more residential work that

303
00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:28,800
way. 
Yeah. 

304
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,400
Then doing commercial work, 
right? 

305
00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:33,900
Where you're likely to work for 
a larger firm or something. 

306
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:34,900
Correct. 
Yeah. 

307
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,800
Do your students towards getting
any like in California? 

308
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,500
This certified interior designer
or taking the NCI. 

309
00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:46,000
DQ what they qualify for that 
coming out of your program. 

310
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,200
Typically they have a more 
stringent basis for being able 

311
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,700
to take the test. 
So I think Chabot has a more 

312
00:18:55,700 --> 00:19:00,900
geared towards program where 
with their units there in kba. 

313
00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:04,200
So the national kitchen and bath
Association approved. 

314
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,800
Las Positas is not and I believe
that a couple Oni is not but 

315
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:15,200
Kenyatta is so I think with our 
particular College, we are set 

316
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,500
up to have that program. 
Go through We discuss it and 

317
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,400
we've had colleagues that are 
asid and we have colleagues that

318
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,400
are not and oftentimes you know,
students are really just how 

319
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,500
many clients ask or try to 
qualify you with something like 

320
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:34,800
that. 
It's kind of really up to the to

321
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:37,700
the student in this situation 
while I need to go on to more 

322
00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:41,300
educated and making sure that 
they can qualify you know to 

323
00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:44,800
take the test and become 
California certified. 

324
00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:46,900
Yeah. 
So what would you say is the 

325
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:51,300
best way then for For a person 
to get started in the design 

326
00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:54,400
field. 
So I would say classes for sure,

327
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,200
like one or two with semester 
because most people still need 

328
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,000
in California. 
Need to be working. 

329
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,100
You know, don't quit your day 
job but I would definitely say, 

330
00:20:05,100 --> 00:20:07,900
take one or two classes, find 
out. 

331
00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:11,400
If it's something that you're 
enjoying, I would say all of our

332
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,200
programs we have probably in the
different colleges I teach at 

333
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,800
they have maybe 40 to 50. 
Going through the program and so

334
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,900
totally tight-knit very, you 
know, bonding experience with 

335
00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:30,500
the the students they have to 
present, they have to critique 

336
00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:35,300
one another. 
They are always super nice and 

337
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:40,000
respectful of one another. 
So I think that that mostly 

338
00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:44,200
pertains to again these small 
knit programs at a community 

339
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,800
college. 
So I think that's really the 

340
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,500
starting point because If you 
take the extra time in the 

341
00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:53,800
evening, to take a class that 
shows, you have some passion for

342
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,300
that. 
And then once you get to the 

343
00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:58,300
point where it's something that 
you're enjoying to do and if you

344
00:20:58,300 --> 00:21:02,500
can scale back your other job or
add an internship or even 

345
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:05,200
weekends. 
And I never discourage students 

346
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,300
from not even getting jobs at 
like Lowe's and Home Depot. 

347
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,300
That is super good public 
experience. 

348
00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:15,000
Any one of those people could be
their client in any moment, 

349
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,900
right? 
And then just product knowledge.

350
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:20,700
I mean, it's a great place to 
get Acknowledged for even the 

351
00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:23,800
smallest of you know anchors 
from wall hangings. 

352
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,800
There are you know, 28 
appliances so yeah, paint stores

353
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,600
also. 
So you know, something like that

354
00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:33,900
just great experience that 
falls, right? 

355
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:36,600
And the backing of designers. 
Hmm. 

356
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:38,900
Yeah. 
And so then while they're taking

357
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,800
maybe a few courses and you 
know, working hopefully getting 

358
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,100
able to get a job at one of 
these places, what kind of 

359
00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:48,400
skills are they needing to 
develop? 

360
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,200
Well, Whether that is an 
excellent question because I 

361
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,700
think a lot of people feel like 
computers are the only thing you

362
00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:56,700
need to learn in this. 
Yeah, industry. 

363
00:21:56,700 --> 00:22:01,000
And it's a hard thing at the 
college level to offer a 

364
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,500
computer program that's going to
take you into Tintin the next 10

365
00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:10,200
years. 
So I would say some of the basic

366
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:15,500
things that we teach our 
drafting manual drafting so 

367
00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:20,000
using a scale drawing out floor 
plans and measuring And then 

368
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,100
being able to space, plan 
product identification, and 

369
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:29,600
material sourcing. 
And we do use a program at Las 

370
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,100
Positas called Envision or it's 
a, what we call a soft CAD. 

371
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,800
It would be almost even easier 
than I was a Chief Architect. 

372
00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:40,100
Okay, whereas Chabot will do 
AutoCAD. 

373
00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:42,200
Okay? 
I think the biggest thing for 

374
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,600
that is that, when I especially 
taught at Kenyatta, most of my 

375
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,000
students were wanting to have 
their own business, Out of their

376
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,600
home they would never buy and 
use AutoCAD. 

377
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:52,700
Okay. 
Yeah, that was one of the 

378
00:22:52,700 --> 00:22:57,600
classes that they had to take so
they sent change that but so we 

379
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,200
do in Visionary. 
It's probably a thirteen hundred

380
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,900
dollar program a year. 
It is super well. 

381
00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:07,700
The students would say super 
easy to learn because it takes 

382
00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:11,900
some time but it's a lot more 
manageable than AutoCAD 

383
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:16,500
price-wise and the use wise. 
A lot of the students will do 

384
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:21,300
you like Revit or they Do 
SketchUp on their own time 

385
00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:26,000
because again, as I pledge, we 
have the time introducing new or

386
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:31,100
a store other different programs
that we can't fit into, you 

387
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:35,100
know, our certificate program. 
So, yeah, I always tell 

388
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:37,800
students, look at the job. 
The dream job you want. 

389
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,900
Go on to indeed.com print off. 
They're asking for and Market 

390
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:46,700
yourself with that job in mind. 
I need the skill. 

391
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,600
I need in visionary. 
ER I need AutoCAD I need Excel 

392
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:56,700
and Word. 
I mean typical invoicing and job

393
00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:59,900
you know letter writing and 
everything super important, 

394
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,600
right? 
And then along with all of that 

395
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,100
comes problem solving and just 
being that Designer, that works 

396
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:11,500
with two people trying to make 
decisions both financially, 

397
00:24:11,500 --> 00:24:17,500
correct and design, correct and 
trying to mesh those two 

398
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:19,700
peoples. 
You know choices? 

399
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,100
Yeah. 
So I would say hey there's a lot

400
00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:26,000
of business side to it. 
That you know my professional 

401
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,600
practice is glass there like 
this is my last class. 

402
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,400
I didn't want to take that. 
It's super important. 

403
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:32,900
It is funny. 
Yeah. 

404
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:36,400
I mean we love doing what we 
love to do but we have to 

405
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,000
actually have it as a 
money-making skill, right? 

406
00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:45,400
So I would say you know, just 
typical computer programs, I 

407
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,300
even have students that will 
take the Like Envision are 

408
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:51,600
class. 
And then they actually Market to

409
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,300
designers that have just don't 
have any of the computer skills.

410
00:24:54,300 --> 00:24:57,200
And that's all they do is do 
space mining and plans for 

411
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:58,500
designers? 
Nice. 

412
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:03,100
So I would say those those are 
the important skills. 

413
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,300
Yeah, yeah. 
Because that's really easy for a

414
00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:09,200
designer to Outsource drawings 
to someone else. 

415
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,800
And so that's that's such a 
marketable skill that for a 

416
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,500
up-and-coming designer to have 
so that they are valuable to a 

417
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:19,400
prospective designer. 
And I Please don't let them 

418
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,000
forget that the manual drafting 
as well as rendering and 

419
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,200
sketching our skills, a computer
can't do. 

420
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,100
Yeah. 
And your power goes out, you're 

421
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:32,600
on an airplane, the internet, 
whatever it is, you still have 

422
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,900
to be able to come up, or even 
standing in front of the client 

423
00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:40,400
or, you know, having to draw or 
sketch or render. 

424
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:44,300
We took a field trip to an 
architect's office down here in 

425
00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:46,800
Pleasanton. 
And one of the things I still 

426
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,100
remember and I tell the students
all the time is they They would 

427
00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:53,600
present their drawings to 
clients in China and they 

428
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,400
started to have their 
perspectives, done hand 

429
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,700
rendered, and they were more 
intrigued and fascinated. 

430
00:26:01,700 --> 00:26:03,400
By that, someone did that by 
hand. 

431
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,700
As opposed to what? 
They've always seen the computer

432
00:26:05,700 --> 00:26:07,400
do with ground. 
Oh yeah. 

433
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,300
Mmm. 
So they actually turned it 

434
00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:11,700
around and took people off of 
the computers for the 

435
00:26:11,708 --> 00:26:15,300
perspectives and actually put 
them on, you know, watercolor 

436
00:26:15,300 --> 00:26:17,700
and you know, marker and 
everything else. 

437
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:21,100
And it was an art Is, yeah, as 
opposed to what everybody else 

438
00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:25,000
could do on the computer, right?
I hadn't thought about that that

439
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,800
they could turn around and 
become a desirable thing to have

440
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,000
that. 
Handmade respective. 

441
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,800
Yeah, yeah. 
So interesting really good. 

442
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:39,300
Okay. 
So a new designer is then, you 

443
00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:41,800
know, coming out of your 
program, they maybe want to 

444
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,200
start their own business. 
And so what are you telling 

445
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,700
them? 
As far as like charging and How 

446
00:26:48,708 --> 00:26:51,600
to deal with prospective clients
and things like that. 

447
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,000
So I usually tell them even as a
student, they need to charge per

448
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,700
hour for families and friends 
and all of that kind of stuff 

449
00:26:59,700 --> 00:27:04,500
because we all know that you'll 
work harder for a family member 

450
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:06,300
for nothing. 
Then you do. 

451
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,400
So I usually start about like 
telling them that they should be

452
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,900
charging, like, $50 an hour 
while they are a student and 

453
00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:16,300
then go up to about 75 to 100 
dollars. 

454
00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:21,200
Once they become And once 
they've finished our program and

455
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,900
our Bay Area, we can probably 
charge up to about 350 an hour. 

456
00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:31,000
And I in this class also, tell 
them that there was once a time 

457
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,400
where I went into a client's 
home and I charged her like 

458
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,700
$200, and she didn't think I was
very good because my price 

459
00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:44,700
wasn't $300 again thinking about
like, wow, you're not marketing 

460
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:47,600
to that person. 
If you're not marketing yourself

461
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,900
as a higher, As per our 
designer, right? 

462
00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:53,200
Like I said, I've been doing 
this a long time, the other 

463
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,600
client that I had, I realized I 
was more there as a friend than 

464
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,800
a designer. 
So her husband would come by and

465
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,600
say, are you enjoying yourself 
honey? 

466
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:09,000
And I had spent like three or 
four hours and with her and she 

467
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,500
was showing me stuff on house 
and things she liked and all 

468
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:15,700
this kind of stuff and sometimes
would text me, do you think I 

469
00:28:15,708 --> 00:28:21,000
should buy this or that but I 
really Stirred that this was her

470
00:28:21,100 --> 00:28:24,000
like time he was watching 
football with the boys. 

471
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:28,500
This was her time to kind of 
spend time with another lady and

472
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:31,300
a designer that would she could 
bounce ideas off. 

473
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,900
So I got to remind him that 
sometimes our job as designers 

474
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:38,300
aren't really designing, we 
could be just there entertaining

475
00:28:38,300 --> 00:28:43,000
or you know like I said it's 
that was a different thing but 

476
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,200
yeah, things can happen and we 
talked a lot about spending a 

477
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,100
lot of time with our clients. 
Are, you know, once we're done 

478
00:28:50,100 --> 00:28:53,500
with a project, there's, you 
know, a little bit of Disconnect

479
00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:56,600
from from them thinking. 
Well, I was seeing somebody 

480
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,000
coming to my house and something
was happening every day for the 

481
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,500
last, you know, six months, and 
now nothing and kind of, you 

482
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:06,600
know, make sure that that all 
works out. 

483
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,500
Okay, yeah. 
Well, they just have to come up 

484
00:29:08,500 --> 00:29:13,800
with another project to get you 
back right and they do. 

485
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:15,100
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

486
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:19,000
So in and then I would say, in 
terms of the job market, I would

487
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,100
say with the resources. 
So like last night, our field 

488
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:24,300
trip for our class was doubling 
glass. 

489
00:29:24,300 --> 00:29:28,000
So the guy was fantastic. 
He owns a company and all he 

490
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,000
talked about is like things to 
know as designers with working 

491
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,300
with shower doors, table, Tom 
glass, cabinet glass. 

492
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,800
And so even as our students go 
through our programs, the field 

493
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:43,000
trips provide them with 
resources. 

494
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,600
So now they could easily call up
Mike and say hey I have a 

495
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,300
client. 
Can you come out and do this? 

496
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,700
So we go to like, tile stores 
kitchen and bath stores. 

497
00:29:53,700 --> 00:29:58,100
We did a field trip at Lowe's 
for just the casing and the 

498
00:29:58,108 --> 00:30:02,800
baseboard and all the moldings 
because as designers, we have to

499
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,000
suspect that know, how they're 
supposed to be used and 

500
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,100
installed and, and so forth. 
So when they go through those 

501
00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:11,700
particular classes and field 
trips, there's the opportunity 

502
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:16,000
to talk to the owners and talk 
to the sales, people to get 

503
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,400
cards. 
And then as they start, their 

504
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,200
Business. 
They have places. 

505
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:24,600
They can resource go to say I 
was a student. 

506
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,800
I was here, I remember this. 
I'm bringing in the client, all 

507
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,200
of that kind of stuff. 
So some of those, our past 

508
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,900
students that work at these 
places, so that also gives them,

509
00:30:35,100 --> 00:30:39,600
you know, the ability to work 
with other people that are 10 

510
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,300
years out of the program or 
something. 

511
00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:44,700
Hmm, that's a great opportunity.
I hadn't thought about that 

512
00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:48,600
like, starting to learn where 
the resources are while They're 

513
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,700
in schools, mmm, really good. 
Is there anything else that you 

514
00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:56,200
would recommend to designers 
that are thinking about getting 

515
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,500
into or people just thinking 
about getting into the career? 

516
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:04,600
Yeah, like I said, one or two 
classes, I think our type of 

517
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,500
teaching has changed. 
So we've gone, you know, 

518
00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:13,200
obviously in the classroom to 
online to now combinations. 

519
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,100
So I think, just making sure 
that people look at the 

520
00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:19,700
different ways, the classes are 
taught and That you learn best 

521
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:22,100
because I'm finding that 
students will tell you they 

522
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:24,900
learn best when they're in 
person but then they don't sign 

523
00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:28,700
up for those classes. 
Yeah. 

524
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:33,700
So and then this is such a kind 
of like a hand program that when

525
00:31:33,700 --> 00:31:37,300
you're online, you have the 
resources, you have to spend the

526
00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:41,800
time looking and learning and 
doing the videos and that type 

527
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:43,600
of thing. 
If it's a, if it's an online 

528
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,600
class, if it's an in-person 
class, you know, stay back. 

529
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,500
Talk to the instructor, make 
sure you have your materials, 

530
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:54,000
your scales, your tape measure, 
and, you know, that you're 

531
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:59,700
really knowing what you're doing
as it pertains to understanding 

532
00:31:59,700 --> 00:32:01,000
the material. 
Hmm. 

533
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,200
Okay. 
Great. 

534
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:06,100
And so you say, you're still 
practicing as a designer 

535
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,600
currently. 
So do you have like a website 

536
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,000
and portfolio? 
People can go and check out? 

537
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,900
It's funny. 
I don't, I don't because most of

538
00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:18,400
my clients are referrals. 
So I've done a job. 

539
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,400
Them are a family friend or so 
forth. 

540
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,400
So I end up. 
Usually, I have a couple of 

541
00:32:23,408 --> 00:32:26,500
different PowerPoint, slide 
presentations that I send them 

542
00:32:26,900 --> 00:32:29,700
of, if they're interested in 
doing a bathroom, it's a 

543
00:32:29,708 --> 00:32:32,100
collection of bathrooms. 
I've done or kitchen and that 

544
00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:34,900
type of thing. 
But I find that managing and 

545
00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:39,100
then I don't spend money on the 
professional pictures but a nice

546
00:32:39,100 --> 00:32:41,600
website together. 
Yeah, my marketing class we 

547
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,900
talked a lot about just having 
to make sure that you pay extra 

548
00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:50,900
for all of the professional. 
Rafi mmm-hmm and if you don't 

549
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:53,600
then it doesn't really make 
sense to, you know, have a 

550
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:54,800
website. 
Yeah. 

551
00:32:55,100 --> 00:32:57,500
Okay. 
Well then I guess you're just 

552
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,200
referral only, which is also 
really great and can take the 

553
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,800
jobs that you want. 
Yeah, yeah, okay, well, thank 

554
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,300
you so much for coming on. 
It's been great talking to you 

555
00:33:07,308 --> 00:33:10,900
and get think the perspective 
from the academic side of it. 

556
00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:13,400
So, and here's Rebecca for 
having me. 

557
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,900
I appreciate it. 
Yeah, thank you always talk to 

558
00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:26,400
you later, okay, thank you. 
So I really appreciate all the 

559
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:32,500
advice that Jill has and really 
understanding like the two-year 

560
00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:35,500
degree in the four-year degree, 
and what in really deciding 

561
00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:38,600
what's best for you. 
Not everyone's going to have the

562
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,800
same answer, she has such a 
varied experience and so I just 

563
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,700
loved having that conversation 
and I hope to have more with 

564
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:52,200
people in the Academia as well 
to just kind of round out our 

565
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,500
advice that we're getting from 
designers on. 

566
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,800
Should I go to school? 
Should I not go to school? 

567
00:33:57,100 --> 00:33:59,800
Of course, you know, my opinion 
on that, I really like I said, 

568
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,400
it depends on who you are, where
you're at in life and what what 

569
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,000
really is going to leave. 
You satisfied with starting out 

570
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,800
in the career so you can reach 
out to Jill. 

571
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,199
If you have any other questions 
or if you would like to go take 

572
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:17,300
a class from her, you can find 
her information in our show 

573
00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:21,900
notes, and don't forget to leave
a five star rating and review. 

574
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:24,600
We love to get feedback from you
to make. 

575
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:28,300
Sure that you're loving all of 
these interviews as much as I am

576
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:32,300
and so stick around for another 
great episode. 

577
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:36,300
Next week, I will be talking 
about the importance of being 

578
00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:41,300
coached and ahead of that. 
I wanted you to be aware that 

579
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,000
I'm going to be talking about 
the coaches that I work with. 

580
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,500
And two of those are Kimberly 
Selden with business of design. 

581
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:51,400
And she'll be on the podcast. 
Coming up here pretty quick. 

582
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,800
And then also about Toby 
fairley's Program design. 

583
00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,500
You and I wanted you to be aware
of because design you is open 

584
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:02,700
this month. 
They have their doors open, but 

585
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:06,500
they'll be closing on the 29th. 
And so I wanted to make sure 

586
00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:09,300
that you can get in there before
they close. 

587
00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:12,500
If that is something that you're
interested in doing, and I'll 

588
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:15,500
kind of talk about that next 
week, but if you had design you 

589
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:19,200
on your radar, I just want you 
to be aware that those doors 

590
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,500
will be closing on the 29th. 
So go ahead and click on the 

591
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:25,500
link that I have in the show 
notes and that Tell them that 

592
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:30,400
you came from design, curious 
that you are primed and ready to

593
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,500
learn about design. 
So go check that out. 

594
00:35:33,700 --> 00:35:37,300
And stay tuned to find out if 
interior design is the career 

595
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:42,400
for you and until then stay 
creative, thanks for listening. 

596
00:35:42,500 --> 00:35:45,100
If you loved this episode, 
please leave a rating and a 

597
00:35:45,107 --> 00:35:47,000
review. 
This helps me reach other 

598
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,100
curious creatives. 
Like you, if you have a topic 

599
00:35:50,100 --> 00:35:53,500
request or would like to contact
me simply head over to my 

600
00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:59,300
website are Award design.com or 
email me at podcast at our war 

601
00:35:59,300 --> 00:35:57,800
design.com. 
Award design.com or email me at 

602
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,500
podcast at our war design.com.