Hello, and welcome to episode 35, designed curious podcast,
I'm your host and Mentor. Rebecca Ward, and today we have
an interview with Jill. Hornbeck, who is an instructor
at Las Positas? College since 2001 and I love
having the conversation with someone in Academia and from a
community college program to really give us insight to see if
that's a Direction. That you want to go as you're
thinking about becoming an interior designer.
So let me get into a little bit more about Jill.
But first, I want to share with you that we have a free download
for you on the three things. I wish I had known when I
started out as an interior designer and you can find out
what those three things are in the link in our show notes and
that will put you on the mailing list so you'll get the podcast
email every week into your inbox so you won't miss an episode and
And any bonus content that I occasionally sent out, you'll
get as well and just stay up to date on all the things and
information about my design Mentor.
So go ahead and get that download.
And now let's learn a little more about who Jill is.
And why she's here today? She has a Bachelor of Science in
interior design from UC Davis. She also has an MBA marketing
from Cal State East Bay, she's the owner of ever Interiors in
Livermore, which she started in 1992.
And she's been teaching at Las Positas College since 2001.
Jill, Hornbeck has always wanted to be an architect and then
found working with colors and Furniture was a lot more
interesting than designing houses and buildings after UC
Davis. She worked at an interior
design, firm doing model homes and residential design.
She then worked for a Home Building Company as a marketing
coordinator working with the sales office doing graphics and
public relations. Along with teaching at LPC,
Johan back runs her own interior design business and has three
children. Her advice to potential students
is to get experience right away. And there's a lot of awareness
about this industry. Thanks to HGTV and you need to
show that you understand. It's more than just putting
samples on a board, the products, and interior designer
more complex and people realize. So having the experience with
products and clients will help you build confidence in your
design skills and your ability to communicate with the many
people you will encounter. And And in our conversation, I
can just tell that she is an amazing instructor.
I would have loved to take in a classroom, her but I did learn a
lot from her in this episode, and I think you will too.
So, let's get into our interview.
You're now listening to design, curious a place where you
creative one are here to learn about what it really is.
Like, to be an interior designer and I'm your host and Mentor
Rebecca, Ward, if you're worried about how, Succeed in a creative
career, if you're ready to learn your next steps to become an
Interior Designer. And if you want the satisfaction
of doing something you love every day, you are in the right
place, grab a coffee, a notebook, and let's dig into
today's episode. Hi, Jill.
Welcome to design carriers podcast.
So, glad to have you here. Thank you, Rebecca for having
me. Yeah, so I'm really interested
to hear how you became an interior designer for our
audience. Won't you tell us a little bit
about where you're located and what you're currently doing.
Okay again, my name is Jill Hornbeck and I'm located in
Livermore, California. I am an interior designer and
have been a designer for over 30 years.
I I absolutely love interior design.
I got started actually in my local high school, I liked
taking the drafting classes and I did a few classes at the
Academy of Art College between my Junior and senior year in
high school. And I knew that's what I wanted
to do. Okay?
So I went off to. Yeah, I went off to the UC
Davis, they had a wonderful design program.
You could kind of emphasize and Interiors, or graphic.
And I went there for just Her for years.
I did a lot of internships and that's a really important part
of finding out, if it's a profession that you want to get
into. So summertime, I would come
home, and I worked for designers up in San Ramon, and Danville.
And that way, I also got units towards my education.
Right? And upon graduating from Davis,
one of the internships I had done was a co-op and a design
Co-op is an excellent opportunity for designers.
Starting out because Cuz there were six of us that owned our
own design firms and we met with clients that we got through
networking and references and referrals from clients existing
and we never were competing with one another for business.
So it was a great camaraderie where we'd meet at lunch and,
you know, ask questions of how do you handle this and has
anyone seen a polka dot with, you know, pink dots and right?
Someone, you know, had One just the day before.
And so a lot of just very helpful designers working
together at the same time, I was working for it was a Campbell's
carpets, which is a contractor that was meeting with home
buyers, that would buy new homes and we would meet with them and
pick out Carpeting and pad and tile and vinyl at those days.
And I would meet with new home buyers everywhere from Benicia
which is what is our headquarters?
All the Way down to San Jose, San Francisco, out to Tracy.
So, that was kind of my weekend, especially my weekend job in the
coop to, it was really nice. If there was a big job that
someone was doing, they would ask of designers to join them.
Okay? And so for example, I did model
homes that way because it would be hard for one person for show
you all home. So, there are three of us that
would go in as kind of contractors with each other and
do model homes. All around to Reno and the
valley, the Central Valley and so forth.
So that was an excellent opportunity at that time.
I was also getting my master's degree in marketing so I have a
masters from Cal State East Bay so I was also getting married so
it was kind of time to to think about doing something as one job
instead of a bunch of jocks. So I went to work for a home
builder out and Tracy there was called Sir land homes.
They were A small home builder. And I was marketing coordinator
since that was my Master's Degree.
So I had a fantastic site on the other opportunities, to
interview designers, to do mom's.
Oh yeah, yeah. So it was fun to be on the
opposite side and see their design talent.
And so we put together everything from the sales office
to the models, to merchandising the models with the designers to
selling the homes and doing focus groups for marketing.
And so forth from there, I ended up going to another Builder up
in Danville called Braddock and Logan and they're also for a
marketing coordinator position and a lot the same kind of
thing. We did a lot of infill projects
which are basically like supermarkets that have gotten,
you know, foreclosed or whatever that land.
And so they would come in and buy that and build, you know,
small 2030, you know, 10 Townhomes or single family homes
in different locations. So the same kind of thing to,
the lot of the marketing part of that I was still at the same
time doing my own design business, because that's okay.
The wonderful thing about interior design, you can bring
it home, you can take it to a studio, you can, you know, be on
the road with it. So at that point, I started
having my family, so it meant me moving my business home.
So, I did a lot of just residential clients out of my
home and also teaching at Las Positas College.
So I Again there in 2001 as a design instructor and have been
there ever since. So, I teach about two classes, a
semester there. And yeah, so it's a awesome
opportunity to be also seeing all the product as a teacher
making sure that the students understand the use for the
different items. So, I was doing that, and I also
ended up picking up Kenyatta College there in Redwood City
alone. Ecollege in Fremont.
Aunt Chabot College in Hayward and so Hawarden the Chabot
College and Las Positas are like that.
They would call Sister colleges came out, dancing District, so I
actually am teaching there again next semester, another
professional practices class so I just love interior design.
I have probably 10 to 15 clients a year just with doing the
teaching part of the job as well and everything's done by
referrals previous clients or friends.
Friends kind of thing. So, okay, I'll see you in a
nutshell how I got started. Yeah, that's quite a journey
going back in your story. I was interested to understand
why you chose to get a masters in marketing, what led you that
direction, if you knew like design was always the thing for
you but marketing. Yeah, that's the competition in
me. So, my sister was going to get
her master's and I thought, oh no, there's just, no way she
could have a masters and not movies.
So that was really my push for that, which she became a teacher
as well. So that money part without a
master's, you can't teach at a community college.
So in a sense that gave me the opportunity to be teaching in
that position, and then I chose marketing just because it was so
closely related to models. And you know, the home building
industry which was also, you know, the direction I took.
So do you think the Getting also helps you with your own design
business because we have to do a lot of marketing of our own
businesses. So have you found any of that
education kind of pull over to your personal business?
Or is it just that it was a stepping stone to get you a
teaching position? No, I absolutely feel like it's
very related. Okay.
Our presentation skills, how we present our self, you know?
And our design ideas, I would Definitely say the first company
I work for, she was the marketing.
Director was very into presentation of yourself as well
as your materials. So I think that really kind of
gave me the eye opening experience that, you know, being
professional presenting, your work clients expectation is that
we are very creative and all avenues.
So we can't have some great ideas but not a great way to
show them, so I I definitely think that has helped me venture
out and making sure that what I'm presenting is is something
that the client finds professional and so forth.
Hmm. And then do you bring in that
marketing to your business practices class that you teach
as a part of the oh yeah, yeah most definitely because a lot of
what we do is work with our client profile that's who our
client is what their needs wants, their lifestyle.
I'll and so it's definitely an area that we question our
clients as to the direction and what they think of things.
So we definitely have to Market our ideas to what their needs
are. Hmm.
When you then decided to take your business home and leave the
coop. Did you find that challenging
not to have that collaborative? Circle of designers around you
anymore? Or did you still go back there
or connect with them frequently to get that feedback?
Yeah. Definitely, it is hard to be in
your home away from colleagues. I think at the time I really was
I scale back with selling of product and went to more
Consulting. So I think with doing more
design from home, what designers have to really think about is
their resources. So I would say resources in
terms of colleagues as well as the products that they can
purchase. So I think that helped a lot
because it Is basically a going out in Consulting with clients
in terms of space planning measuring design, but I wasn't
selling product. Anyway, just because really as a
designer to be full time is when you can sell those type of
things. When your part-time, you don't
have as much Avenues and abilities to go out and find
things to sell to other people. Okay?
So yeah, okay. So going to the education part
of becoming an Designer. You are teaching at several
different colleges currently our community.
Colleges, how do you find that the program at the colleges that
you're working at different from UC Davis, where you attended
would you recommend one or over the other if someone like it's
just coming out of high school as opposed to starting over in
their second career. So great question.
I Ponder this a lot because I think you and you leave high
school and go directly to Age you go for a couple of different
reasons so for me to go directly off to a four-year College, it
was just the Avenue that I felt was best for me, I would say
education-wise it was probably not as practical of an education
curriculum. As I would say, I definitely
direct myself to teach more practicalities in Community
College. I think that's probably Yes,
with some of the four years and especially a you see program and
I another classmate of mine left and went to UCLA to do landscape
architecture and she and I talked about the same thing.
We both felt like we came out of a very nice degreed school but
probably not as useful tangible practical knowledge behind us to
say hey we're off and running. Yeah so I think that's probably
the biggest First thing I see in the way that I teach is that we
absolutely do client profiles, we practice presenting to
clients, we often use real clients, either, I have the
students find them on next door or use a family friend, but not
themselves because we always tend to design differently for
ourselves and having someone who has absolute clear constraints,
I have a Saint Bernard, I want white.
B, I have 10 kids and I don't want to clean, you know?
That is our typical client. Not.
Oh, I have lots of money. I want my place to look pretty.
I have a cleaner that comes in every day, the sky's the limit
that is never our client, right? So I definitely, you know, try
to get students to understand that we have to design around
constraints and problem-solve often times.
So I I would say that's the biggest thing that I try to get
across and measuring. I mean I have to be honest.
That is a struggle for people all the time.
Yeah. So is measuring with a tape
measure and then scaling things out so we go over that quite a
bit. So most of my students at the
community college's, I would say 80% or what?
I call re-entry. So they've been someplace else
and a career or education and now they're coming back to a
passion. Our a change of career, I would
say the other 20% are out of high school and I will often
times encourage them to do two years and transfer just because
I feel at 18 and 22, it's a great time to spend time out of
four year degree, mmm-hmm for whatever that you'd like you
know to have as a career for the students at a re-entry they have
something already. I usually have them do like a
certificate program. And that's our 10 classes and
most of the colleges so that they have already some
education. I guess.
The other biggest thing is, I try to have them do an
internship. I just remember some of the
students say, oh, I have classes and then I go into this and I
don't really like, I was doing great.
It's better today than in four years.
Yes, exactly. Yeah.
So I definitely kind of approach different based on the age of my
students that You know, I could see like go off and get a
four-year. Stay do your certificate start
working. Hmm.
So real good with the curriculum at your colleges more
residentially focused. I don't know if you found an
easy Davis, if you had a lot of commercially focused classes or
not, but I tend to see that the four-year degrees are really
geared towards working in a more commercial environment, whereas
the community colleges might have more residential Classes as
an offering. Yeah, that's a great question.
I would say at Davis, it was definitely a 50/50 residential
and Commercial, I would say that most of the community colleges,
it is more of a residential program.
I have another classmate that went to Cal Poly and she does
commercial interior design and that at that time that they were
offering. Like I said, more like you said
to four-year colleges have kind of a blend of that.
So I think the other two About that is that if you're a
re-entry student you might be looking at doing self-employed.
So you tend to find yourself doing more residential work that
way. Yeah.
Then doing commercial work, right?
Where you're likely to work for a larger firm or something.
Correct. Yeah.
Do your students towards getting any like in California?
This certified interior designer or taking the NCI.
DQ what they qualify for that coming out of your program.
Typically they have a more stringent basis for being able
to take the test. So I think Chabot has a more
geared towards program where with their units there in kba.
So the national kitchen and bath Association approved.
Las Positas is not and I believe that a couple Oni is not but
Kenyatta is so I think with our particular College, we are set
up to have that program. Go through We discuss it and
we've had colleagues that are asid and we have colleagues that
are not and oftentimes you know, students are really just how
many clients ask or try to qualify you with something like
that. It's kind of really up to the to
the student in this situation while I need to go on to more
educated and making sure that they can qualify you know to
take the test and become California certified.
Yeah. So what would you say is the
best way then for For a person to get started in the design
field. So I would say classes for sure,
like one or two with semester because most people still need
in California. Need to be working.
You know, don't quit your day job but I would definitely say,
take one or two classes, find out.
If it's something that you're enjoying, I would say all of our
programs we have probably in the different colleges I teach at
they have maybe 40 to 50. Going through the program and so
totally tight-knit very, you know, bonding experience with
the the students they have to present, they have to critique
one another. They are always super nice and
respectful of one another. So I think that that mostly
pertains to again these small knit programs at a community
college. So I think that's really the
starting point because If you take the extra time in the
evening, to take a class that shows, you have some passion for
that. And then once you get to the
point where it's something that you're enjoying to do and if you
can scale back your other job or add an internship or even
weekends. And I never discourage students
from not even getting jobs at like Lowe's and Home Depot.
That is super good public experience.
Any one of those people could be their client in any moment,
right? And then just product knowledge.
I mean, it's a great place to get Acknowledged for even the
smallest of you know anchors from wall hangings.
There are you know, 28 appliances so yeah, paint stores
also. So you know, something like that
just great experience that falls, right?
And the backing of designers. Hmm.
Yeah. And so then while they're taking
maybe a few courses and you know, working hopefully getting
able to get a job at one of these places, what kind of
skills are they needing to develop?
Well, Whether that is an excellent question because I
think a lot of people feel like computers are the only thing you
need to learn in this. Yeah, industry.
And it's a hard thing at the college level to offer a
computer program that's going to take you into Tintin the next 10
years. So I would say some of the basic
things that we teach our drafting manual drafting so
using a scale drawing out floor plans and measuring And then
being able to space, plan product identification, and
material sourcing. And we do use a program at Las
Positas called Envision or it's a, what we call a soft CAD.
It would be almost even easier than I was a Chief Architect.
Okay, whereas Chabot will do AutoCAD.
Okay? I think the biggest thing for
that is that, when I especially taught at Kenyatta, most of my
students were wanting to have their own business, Out of their
home they would never buy and use AutoCAD.
Okay. Yeah, that was one of the
classes that they had to take so they sent change that but so we
do in Visionary. It's probably a thirteen hundred
dollar program a year. It is super well.
The students would say super easy to learn because it takes
some time but it's a lot more manageable than AutoCAD
price-wise and the use wise. A lot of the students will do
you like Revit or they Do SketchUp on their own time
because again, as I pledge, we have the time introducing new or
a store other different programs that we can't fit into, you
know, our certificate program. So, yeah, I always tell
students, look at the job. The dream job you want.
Go on to indeed.com print off. They're asking for and Market
yourself with that job in mind. I need the skill.
I need in visionary. ER I need AutoCAD I need Excel
and Word. I mean typical invoicing and job
you know letter writing and everything super important,
right? And then along with all of that
comes problem solving and just being that Designer, that works
with two people trying to make decisions both financially,
correct and design, correct and trying to mesh those two
peoples. You know choices?
Yeah. So I would say hey there's a lot
of business side to it. That you know my professional
practice is glass there like this is my last class.
I didn't want to take that. It's super important.
It is funny. Yeah.
I mean we love doing what we love to do but we have to
actually have it as a money-making skill, right?
So I would say you know, just typical computer programs, I
even have students that will take the Like Envision are
class. And then they actually Market to
designers that have just don't have any of the computer skills.
And that's all they do is do space mining and plans for
designers? Nice.
So I would say those those are the important skills.
Yeah, yeah. Because that's really easy for a
designer to Outsource drawings to someone else.
And so that's that's such a marketable skill that for a
up-and-coming designer to have so that they are valuable to a
prospective designer. And I Please don't let them
forget that the manual drafting as well as rendering and
sketching our skills, a computer can't do.
Yeah. And your power goes out, you're
on an airplane, the internet, whatever it is, you still have
to be able to come up, or even standing in front of the client
or, you know, having to draw or sketch or render.
We took a field trip to an architect's office down here in
Pleasanton. And one of the things I still
remember and I tell the students all the time is they They would
present their drawings to clients in China and they
started to have their perspectives, done hand
rendered, and they were more intrigued and fascinated.
By that, someone did that by hand.
As opposed to what? They've always seen the computer
do with ground. Oh yeah.
Mmm. So they actually turned it
around and took people off of the computers for the
perspectives and actually put them on, you know, watercolor
and you know, marker and everything else.
And it was an art Is, yeah, as opposed to what everybody else
could do on the computer, right? I hadn't thought about that that
they could turn around and become a desirable thing to have
that. Handmade respective.
Yeah, yeah. So interesting really good.
Okay. So a new designer is then, you
know, coming out of your program, they maybe want to
start their own business. And so what are you telling
them? As far as like charging and How
to deal with prospective clients and things like that.
So I usually tell them even as a student, they need to charge per
hour for families and friends and all of that kind of stuff
because we all know that you'll work harder for a family member
for nothing. Then you do.
So I usually start about like telling them that they should be
charging, like, $50 an hour while they are a student and
then go up to about 75 to 100 dollars.
Once they become And once they've finished our program and
our Bay Area, we can probably charge up to about 350 an hour.
And I in this class also, tell them that there was once a time
where I went into a client's home and I charged her like
$200, and she didn't think I was very good because my price
wasn't $300 again thinking about like, wow, you're not marketing
to that person. If you're not marketing yourself
as a higher, As per our designer, right?
Like I said, I've been doing this a long time, the other
client that I had, I realized I was more there as a friend than
a designer. So her husband would come by and
say, are you enjoying yourself honey?
And I had spent like three or four hours and with her and she
was showing me stuff on house and things she liked and all
this kind of stuff and sometimes would text me, do you think I
should buy this or that but I really Stirred that this was her
like time he was watching football with the boys.
This was her time to kind of spend time with another lady and
a designer that would she could bounce ideas off.
So I got to remind him that sometimes our job as designers
aren't really designing, we could be just there entertaining
or you know like I said it's that was a different thing but
yeah, things can happen and we talked a lot about spending a
lot of time with our clients. Are, you know, once we're done
with a project, there's, you know, a little bit of Disconnect
from from them thinking. Well, I was seeing somebody
coming to my house and something was happening every day for the
last, you know, six months, and now nothing and kind of, you
know, make sure that that all works out.
Okay, yeah. Well, they just have to come up
with another project to get you back right and they do.
Yeah. Yeah.
So in and then I would say, in terms of the job market, I would
say with the resources. So like last night, our field
trip for our class was doubling glass.
So the guy was fantastic. He owns a company and all he
talked about is like things to know as designers with working
with shower doors, table, Tom glass, cabinet glass.
And so even as our students go through our programs, the field
trips provide them with resources.
So now they could easily call up Mike and say hey I have a
client. Can you come out and do this?
So we go to like, tile stores kitchen and bath stores.
We did a field trip at Lowe's for just the casing and the
baseboard and all the moldings because as designers, we have to
suspect that know, how they're supposed to be used and
installed and, and so forth. So when they go through those
particular classes and field trips, there's the opportunity
to talk to the owners and talk to the sales, people to get
cards. And then as they start, their
Business. They have places.
They can resource go to say I was a student.
I was here, I remember this. I'm bringing in the client, all
of that kind of stuff. So some of those, our past
students that work at these places, so that also gives them,
you know, the ability to work with other people that are 10
years out of the program or something.
Hmm, that's a great opportunity. I hadn't thought about that
like, starting to learn where the resources are while They're
in schools, mmm, really good. Is there anything else that you
would recommend to designers that are thinking about getting
into or people just thinking about getting into the career?
Yeah, like I said, one or two classes, I think our type of
teaching has changed. So we've gone, you know,
obviously in the classroom to online to now combinations.
So I think, just making sure that people look at the
different ways, the classes are taught and That you learn best
because I'm finding that students will tell you they
learn best when they're in person but then they don't sign
up for those classes. Yeah.
So and then this is such a kind of like a hand program that when
you're online, you have the resources, you have to spend the
time looking and learning and doing the videos and that type
of thing. If it's a, if it's an online
class, if it's an in-person class, you know, stay back.
Talk to the instructor, make sure you have your materials,
your scales, your tape measure, and, you know, that you're
really knowing what you're doing as it pertains to understanding
the material. Hmm.
Okay. Great.
And so you say, you're still practicing as a designer
currently. So do you have like a website
and portfolio? People can go and check out?
It's funny. I don't, I don't because most of
my clients are referrals. So I've done a job.
Them are a family friend or so forth.
So I end up. Usually, I have a couple of
different PowerPoint, slide presentations that I send them
of, if they're interested in doing a bathroom, it's a
collection of bathrooms. I've done or kitchen and that
type of thing. But I find that managing and
then I don't spend money on the professional pictures but a nice
website together. Yeah, my marketing class we
talked a lot about just having to make sure that you pay extra
for all of the professional. Rafi mmm-hmm and if you don't
then it doesn't really make sense to, you know, have a
website. Yeah.
Okay. Well then I guess you're just
referral only, which is also really great and can take the
jobs that you want. Yeah, yeah, okay, well, thank
you so much for coming on. It's been great talking to you
and get think the perspective from the academic side of it.
So, and here's Rebecca for having me.
I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you always talk to
you later, okay, thank you. So I really appreciate all the
advice that Jill has and really understanding like the two-year
degree in the four-year degree, and what in really deciding
what's best for you. Not everyone's going to have the
same answer, she has such a varied experience and so I just
loved having that conversation and I hope to have more with
people in the Academia as well to just kind of round out our
advice that we're getting from designers on.
Should I go to school? Should I not go to school?
Of course, you know, my opinion on that, I really like I said,
it depends on who you are, where you're at in life and what what
really is going to leave. You satisfied with starting out
in the career so you can reach out to Jill.
If you have any other questions or if you would like to go take
a class from her, you can find her information in our show
notes, and don't forget to leave a five star rating and review.
We love to get feedback from you to make.
Sure that you're loving all of these interviews as much as I am
and so stick around for another great episode.
Next week, I will be talking about the importance of being
coached and ahead of that. I wanted you to be aware that
I'm going to be talking about the coaches that I work with.
And two of those are Kimberly Selden with business of design.
And she'll be on the podcast. Coming up here pretty quick.
And then also about Toby fairley's Program design.
You and I wanted you to be aware of because design you is open
this month. They have their doors open, but
they'll be closing on the 29th. And so I wanted to make sure
that you can get in there before they close.
If that is something that you're interested in doing, and I'll
kind of talk about that next week, but if you had design you
on your radar, I just want you to be aware that those doors
will be closing on the 29th. So go ahead and click on the
link that I have in the show notes and that Tell them that
you came from design, curious that you are primed and ready to
learn about design. So go check that out.
And stay tuned to find out if interior design is the career
for you and until then stay creative, thanks for listening.
If you loved this episode, please leave a rating and a
review. This helps me reach other
curious creatives. Like you, if you have a topic
request or would like to contact me simply head over to my
website are Award design.com or email me at podcast at our war
design.com. Award design.com or email me at
podcast at our war design.com.