1 00:00:00,500 --> 00:00:03,800 Hello and welcome to episode 44, a design. 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,600 Curious podcast. I'm your host a mentor of 3 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:10,400 Rebecca Ward today on the podcast we have a fabulous 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,500 interview with Nina parish and I just know you're going to love 5 00:00:14,500 --> 00:00:16,500 this conversation that I had with her. 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,800 So before I tell you a little bit more about her wanted to 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,100 remind you, this is the last week that you can take advantage 8 00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:26,400 of the promotion that we're doing with Erica sort. 9 00:00:26,700 --> 00:00:29,800 You'll remember Erica sort from episodes 38. 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,600 Eight of how storytelling and brand marketing will level up 11 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,700 your interior design career. So, she's created and just 12 00:00:36,700 --> 00:00:40,200 launched a new course, called the brand storytelling master 13 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,400 class on teachable for people just like you. 14 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,400 And so there is an opportunity to take this master class for 15 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,200 free. And how you can do that is 16 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,400 leaving review of design periods. 17 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,300 Podcast screenshot that review and send it to me, you can email 18 00:00:57,300 --> 00:00:59,300 it podcast at our Ward design.com. 19 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,400 Posted on Instagram and tag me and Erica. 20 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,700 And we will send you the code to take that Master Class for free. 21 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:08,600 And you're going to want to do this because the course is 22 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,900 designed to be short and easy to complete, but you'll learn how 23 00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:14,800 to write compelling stories, for your brand, in an easy to 24 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:19,400 implement step-by-step Master Class format to get you crafting 25 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,100 Unforgettable brand narrative in just a few short hours by the 26 00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:24,900 end of this course. You'll have created your own 27 00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:28,600 taglines brand scripts and content Matrix allowing you to 28 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,400 easily generate 20 plus. Us unique content topics and use 29 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,600 them for Social Media blog post, email campaigns and more. 30 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:41,700 So, take advantage of this last week of being able to get that 31 00:01:41,700 --> 00:01:43,900 coupon code to take her master class, you're going to want to 32 00:01:43,900 --> 00:01:47,400 do this brand, storytelling is so important for your business, 33 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,300 for your brand and just getting out there. 34 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,900 Also, while you're checking out that link in my show notes, 35 00:01:53,900 --> 00:01:56,800 you're going to want to get the link for the downloads that I 36 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,800 offer, as well as checking out my mentor. 37 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,100 It program, my design Mentor. So, check out all of that. 38 00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:07,400 I know you're going to want to get all the information you can 39 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,000 as you're starting out in your career. 40 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,000 So this is a great resource for that. 41 00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:14,300 All right, let me tell you a little bit about Nina. 42 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:17,500 She was born and raised in Charming town about an hour 43 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,500 outside of Paris. And we'll hear a little bit 44 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:26,400 about her story of getting into the School of Architecture and 45 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,700 that they called a bizarre then just how She started her career, 46 00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:33,300 it's just really fast and I'm going to let her tell that story 47 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,800 but her approach to work is holistic. 48 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,500 And there are boundaries between the divisions of the field from 49 00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:44,200 lighting to structural design to FF and E and it's developed a 50 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:48,100 desire in her to build something that she can carry the projects 51 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:50,900 through fully and completely without jeopardizing or 52 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:54,600 compromising on the thread that ties the whole characteristic 53 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,700 Narrative of the project together. 54 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,300 Her curiosity, led her to learn from Different fields that she 55 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:03,700 did not specialize in and learned how to become an 56 00:03:03,700 --> 00:03:07,500 Interior Designer, a lighting designer, and even learned a lot 57 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:11,500 about fields that she thought she disliked such as Plumbing, 58 00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:14,800 or automation systems, which still gives her anxiety attacks. 59 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,900 So she really has a can-do attitude willing to take on any 60 00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:24,600 project, learn anything that she needs to to make her projects, 61 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,500 really stand out and customized to the nth degree for her 62 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:31,500 clients. And she has some incredible 63 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:34,400 projects all around the world taken when check out her 64 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,100 information in the show notes as well to see her portfolio and 65 00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:39,400 all the great work that she's done. 66 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,100 So she has so much great knowledge to share. 67 00:03:42,500 --> 00:03:45,200 You're gonna love this interview, so now let's hear 68 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:51,700 from Nina. You're now listening to design, 69 00:03:51,700 --> 00:03:55,800 curious a place where you creative one are here to learn 70 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:58,900 about what it really is. Like, to be an interior designer 71 00:03:59,300 --> 00:04:03,500 and I'm your host and Mentor Rebecca, Ward, if you're worried 72 00:04:03,500 --> 00:04:07,200 about how to succeed in a creative career, if you're ready 73 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:10,300 to learn your next steps to become an Interior Designer. 74 00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:14,500 And if you want the satisfaction of doing something, you love 75 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,500 every day, you are in the right place. 76 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,100 Grab a coffee, a notebook. Let's dig into today's episode. 77 00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:26,500 Hi, Nina, welcome to design curious podcast. 78 00:04:26,900 --> 00:04:28,900 Hi Rebecca. Thanks for having me. 79 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,700 Yes, of course. And I'm so excited that we were 80 00:04:31,700 --> 00:04:35,200 able to coordinate this. I know that you are now. 81 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,700 Working out of Dubai. Is that right? 82 00:04:37,900 --> 00:04:41,400 Yes, that's correct. So I'm basically I was born and 83 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:46,200 brought up in France and I moved to the Middle East about 13 84 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,900 years ago where I directly started my own business pasty to 85 00:04:50,900 --> 00:04:52,900 my design business. Okay. 86 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:56,600 Wonderful Awful. So let's start in France where 87 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:01,500 you were born and at what point did you get into interior 88 00:05:01,500 --> 00:05:03,500 design? And what inspired though? 89 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,300 What I heard from like a lot of your guests from a very, very 90 00:05:07,300 --> 00:05:09,900 young age. As far as I remember, my 91 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:13,700 grandmother would say to my mom. When I was like three years old, 92 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,700 she's going to be an architect. She's going to be a designer, 93 00:05:16,700 --> 00:05:20,000 because from a very young age, I was drawing. 94 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,400 Like apparently my drawings as we're not like a normal child. 95 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,300 So I remember being like 23 years old and being at nursery 96 00:05:28,300 --> 00:05:31,600 and my parents picking me up and the teacher would say like she's 97 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,900 drawing full houses. So yeah, the first point is I've 98 00:05:34,900 --> 00:05:37,200 ever done where Like Houses, you know? 99 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:42,400 So and then as I grew up and as I was a teenager, my mom really 100 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,800 pushed me to go to, you know, the kind of art school that you 101 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,600 go after classes. Yeah. 102 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:52,100 Attended all of that quite early on and I was always the youngest 103 00:05:52,100 --> 00:05:55,600 beside the fact that Like at home, I was a real design 104 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,800 dictator and I think more than I was always, like, very sensitive 105 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,600 to spaces. I think, I realized very early 106 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,000 on how spaces could affect your mood. 107 00:06:05,100 --> 00:06:08,200 Of course, at the time, I didn't know why or how. 108 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:13,100 But I knew that in some spaces, I was like really happy and in 109 00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:17,000 some others, I hated that, you know, I used to like, a phobia 110 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,100 of green color I think from a very young age. 111 00:06:20,100 --> 00:06:23,300 I knew that I was going to be a an architect in France. 112 00:06:23,500 --> 00:06:26,500 When you're at school, they always ask you what do you want 113 00:06:26,500 --> 00:06:28,700 to be when you grow up? Like at first it was cool. 114 00:06:28,700 --> 00:06:31,900 Then as far as I remember, I always brought like I want to be 115 00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:33,400 an architect. So yeah. 116 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:36,600 Yeah, yeah. So this is how far it goes and 117 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,800 and then I basically you know, apply to different architecture 118 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,900 school at the end of high school and and you know, got accepted 119 00:06:43,900 --> 00:06:46,700 in one of the best school in Paris basically. 120 00:06:46,900 --> 00:06:51,500 So I graduate an architect. Okay course then in my practice, 121 00:06:51,700 --> 00:06:55,500 you know, moved from I mean, we still do a lot of architecture, 122 00:06:55,500 --> 00:06:59,100 but I would say, you know, when you do a project from A to Z the 123 00:06:59,100 --> 00:07:01,900 architecture, phase is maybe three months. 124 00:07:01,900 --> 00:07:05,300 Whereas, the interior design phase takes like nine months, 125 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:08,000 you know. So he will re sure. 126 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,700 Okay. So yeah, but I'm a trained 127 00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:13,900 architect basically. Did you have any other 128 00:07:13,900 --> 00:07:16,600 colleagues that were women in the architecture program? 129 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,500 Was it primarily men or no? I mean I think in France 130 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:24,500 actually I remember. So I started my studies In 2002 131 00:07:25,500 --> 00:07:28,100 France, the program is about 6 years. 132 00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:32,700 So it's, you know, a bit longer than in the US but no, it was 133 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:35,200 very equal. And I actually remember, first 134 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,200 year of architecture one of my professor announcing that it was 135 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:42,800 the first year that there was more female in the in that batch 136 00:07:42,900 --> 00:07:45,400 than men, you know. So it was interesting and I 137 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,500 think right now, if you look at the data as I mean, it's really 138 00:07:48,500 --> 00:07:52,600 like 50/50 if not more women than men actually graduating 139 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:54,800 Architecture school this. Yeah. 140 00:07:55,100 --> 00:07:58,700 Okay. So did that program also fold in 141 00:07:58,700 --> 00:08:01,400 interior design elements as well. 142 00:08:01,500 --> 00:08:03,800 Absolutely. So the reason why I think I 143 00:08:03,808 --> 00:08:07,900 decided to go to the architecture past is because, 144 00:08:08,100 --> 00:08:12,200 you know, I wanted to learn the larger scale because I was also 145 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,200 accepted to one of the best school you know, in the word in 146 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,300 terms of interior design. But then I thought if I learn 147 00:08:18,300 --> 00:08:22,000 everything from the interior perspective and what's going to 148 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,900 be my perspective on, I'm thinking of the whole thing. 149 00:08:24,900 --> 00:08:29,300 And one of the most important factors for me, I think, is the 150 00:08:29,300 --> 00:08:32,799 link between architecture and interior design, and too often, 151 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:34,500 I think they're Architects out there. 152 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:38,700 That do not care about interior design and anything designers, 153 00:08:38,700 --> 00:08:41,100 get stuck with the mistakes of the architect. 154 00:08:41,299 --> 00:08:43,100 So this is something that I don't believe in. 155 00:08:43,100 --> 00:08:45,400 I don't believe in boxes and design. 156 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,500 You know, from the scale of like Urban Design to the scale of 157 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,600 Furniture Design. So that's the reason why I 158 00:08:52,608 --> 00:08:56,300 actually he studied architecture for the scale just to understand 159 00:08:56,300 --> 00:08:59,300 like the larger scale. And then I told myself, I 160 00:08:59,308 --> 00:09:02,700 understand the larger scale while obviously I'll be able to 161 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:06,900 zoom in into the smallest scale and but actually not like that 162 00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:09,600 at all. And I know how difficult 163 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,700 interior design was, you know. Yeah. 164 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,500 But it's not about thinking as a student. 165 00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:17,000 Yeah, yeah, okay. So then what happened? 166 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,500 Once you graduated with your degree while I was doing my 167 00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:22,500 studies? I always knew that I was going 168 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:27,600 to create my own - like I always add equally a designer mind and 169 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,600 an entrepreneurial mind. So for me this was like a given 170 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:36,600 and you know I graduated in 2008 worldwide crisis at that point 171 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:39,600 at least in Europe. You better off working at 172 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,400 McDonald's and being a designer. So for me there was no way that 173 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,600 I was going to work like 80 hours a week. 174 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,400 We know like in those fields, very long hours. 175 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,100 I mean, I always say this to students that are starting their 176 00:09:53,300 --> 00:09:56,600 Their studies and their journey and I'm like, don't expect easy 177 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,100 studies, don't expect easy working hours. 178 00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:03,300 So so yeah. I mean, I knew I was going to, I 179 00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:06,500 wanted to create my own business, so doing my studies. 180 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:10,400 I actually, you know, worked in New York for your worked in 181 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,100 Istanbul for, you know. So I was like experimenting in 182 00:10:13,100 --> 00:10:16,800 different areas and I also knew I wouldn't want to stay in 183 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,900 France because I consider that France, even though I would say 184 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:24,700 that, it's one of the centers. Interior design on your like 185 00:10:24,700 --> 00:10:27,600 with Italy France. Those countries are really they 186 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,700 generated interior design as we speak. 187 00:10:30,700 --> 00:10:34,000 So I knew I didn't want to stay there because to me it was too 188 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,700 conservative in the entrepreneurial mind. 189 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,800 So I had an opportunity to move into the Middle East. 190 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:45,200 I actually had an opportunity to go teach interior design to the 191 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,800 first batch of interior design graduates in Saudi Arabia, to 192 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,000 the first batch of female interior design graduate. 193 00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:55,300 Saudi Arabia. So it was very very thing. 194 00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:57,900 They had no idea that I was younger than them. 195 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,500 They thought that probably because I had published a 196 00:11:00,508 --> 00:11:03,900 project part of my last year and they had heard about me. 197 00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:06,900 So they they asked me if I wanted to come as a guest 198 00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:11,200 lecturer for semester. So when I got there, they 199 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,300 realized that, you know, I was 23. 200 00:11:13,300 --> 00:11:17,200 So a lot of the students were actually older than me, but I 201 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,600 think it helped me a lot in to, you know, like developing my 202 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,800 carrier to. So I, this is what I did. 203 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,900 I moved in To Saudi Arabia very weirdly out of all the odds. 204 00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:29,100 But I was like, you know, it's an opportunity. 205 00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:35,700 And then from there I realized that at the time in Saudi I mean 206 00:11:35,700 --> 00:11:39,900 right now the Middle East is really moving so fast and like 207 00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:42,700 you know it's one of the epicenters of having new 208 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:46,200 project. Also I'm originally even Ian so 209 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,600 culture shock didn't bother me, you know, something very very 210 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:55,300 adventurous and so this is R like I moved at 23 so I was 211 00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:59,500 teaching at University interior design and in the same time, 212 00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:02,200 literally signed my first project at the age of 23, like 213 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,600 which was a mega 4000 square meter. 214 00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:06,900 You said forty thousand square feet. 215 00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:10,600 Yeah, residential project. So this is how it started right 216 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,500 out of basically, which was violence. 217 00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:17,700 I mean, violent in the sense that you're not prepared for 218 00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:18,900 that. I think, when you graduate 219 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:25,500 design, you are not prepared to be Handed over a project from A 220 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:30,300 to Z button because I was I think it was one of the I always 221 00:12:30,300 --> 00:12:33,700 like retrospectively always think about it because my plan 222 00:12:33,700 --> 00:12:37,600 was actually to move to the us and that was like no way on 223 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,300 Earth. Would I have been given the 224 00:12:39,300 --> 00:12:43,600 chance as 23 with no experience to be given a project from 225 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,400 ground up you know and from ground to the last piece of 226 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:51,000 furniture that was going into that residential home, you know. 227 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,300 So thank you. Amazing curve of learning 228 00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:56,600 basically. Yeah. 229 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,000 And at that time, 2007-2008. That's when the US was 230 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:05,400 experienced such such a, you know, recession in our Housing 231 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,400 Industry and everything. So there probably wasn't even an 232 00:13:07,408 --> 00:13:11,000 opportunity for you there. Yeah, we're up was same to be 233 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,100 honest. Yeah. 234 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:16,000 So what how was Dubai at that time or I mean at the time in 235 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,400 the Middle East, you know, Dubai. 236 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,300 So because I basically started my carrier in Saudi was my first 237 00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:25,900 project and then Because I created my office there and then 238 00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:27,800 three years later expanded to Dubai. 239 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,900 So we basically had projects all over the Middle East, 2008, 240 00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:37,000 2009, 2010, we're not great years in in Dubai either. 241 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,800 I think Dubai is very, very rapidly changing for the past, 242 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,200 like, three, four years. But it was not amazing. 243 00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:48,300 Hence, I started having large projects in Saudi Arabia. 244 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,500 It was an amazing. Yeah, I mean, the opportunities 245 00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:57,400 were incredible because As we session, I'm probably hit a bit, 246 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,800 but you could not see the effect and the impact on very wealthy 247 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,800 individuals, right? So, like in any crisis, even 248 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,800 even right now, I mean, the rich, get richer, right? 249 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,300 So, and again, very rapidly, my clientele. 250 00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:14,700 So, this is what we do as a as a design office. 251 00:14:14,900 --> 00:14:18,100 We really specialize in super, super high-end projects. 252 00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:22,700 Of course, it didn't start like this, but I would say initially 253 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,200 when I told Three. I signed. 254 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,100 My first 40,000 square feet project. 255 00:14:27,100 --> 00:14:30,500 It was a very high-end Villa and then from there, you know you 256 00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:33,500 experiment, right? Like, so we took our commercial 257 00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:37,000 project, F and B project. So we really experimented I 258 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,800 would say for a good six, seven years before, really 259 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,400 specializing in, in high-end residential, which we are now 260 00:14:43,500 --> 00:14:46,000 doing in Europe in the Middle East. 261 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,300 So, not only do by, we have projects in Paris, we have 262 00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:51,700 projects in Milan upcoming so, so yeah. 263 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:54,900 Wow. So So when you arrived in your 264 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:58,800 teaching and get your first project so was it just you did 265 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,100 you hire someone right away? How did you set up your 266 00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:04,200 business? So I mean it was really like I 267 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,300 think all those you know stories of when you're super young and 268 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:10,500 you're started. So I literally I'll never forget 269 00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:15,600 how I signed my first project. So I was 23 as I told you and I 270 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,900 was leaving in a kind of residential compound, and my 271 00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:22,800 neighbor was a British contractor that had been living 272 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,400 in the Middle East for over 25 years. 273 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:30,200 So he was a contractor working with all those big industrial. 274 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:34,000 Very wealthy family is. So he said to me, you know, 275 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,100 we're always lacking people doing sketches for us drawing 276 00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:40,500 for us and there's this very, very important family. 277 00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:43,300 So which is very well known in the region are very big 278 00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:47,600 industrial family, but, you know, at 23, I had no idea who 279 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,300 was who and, you know, it's good to be naive to at one point, you 280 00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:53,600 know, when you're young because then you don't, I feel the 281 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,500 pressure and he said to me, you know, they've been trying to 282 00:15:56,500 --> 00:15:59,200 build their home for the past three years. 283 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,900 They've already hired three architect, five interior, design 284 00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:05,600 offices. Are you willing to meet them and 285 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,900 and give it a shot basically? I'm like, sure. 286 00:16:07,900 --> 00:16:10,100 I'm like, can I see you think plans? 287 00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:14,200 And he showed me the existing drawings and plans and I was 288 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,800 like, so shocked to know because I think when you come out of 289 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,400 school and and this is when you realize like everything in life, 290 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,700 whether you're an architect. Designer a doctor, you know, you 291 00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:30,200 have great people in the field. We also have people that are not 292 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:35,300 that competent in every field. And I remember me and my naive 293 00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:39,200 kind of behavior coming out of school and kind of, you know, 294 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,900 having ethics, you know, in the design word thinking, you know, 295 00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:45,600 they taught us to design like this. 296 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:48,600 This is what I have to. And I was the drawings that I 297 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,200 saw where horrendous. So I went to the client and I 298 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,800 said, listen, I'm just 23, I don't need any money, just give 299 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,400 me two weeks and I will come back with a proposal like was a 300 00:17:01,408 --> 00:17:05,900 full plan and I had received my first salary from the University 301 00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:08,099 because it was literally months to that. 302 00:17:08,099 --> 00:17:09,900 I had moved into the Middle East. 303 00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:13,599 So I had my small salary from the University teaching and I 304 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,599 literally called my friends from Paris because at that point as 305 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:22,400 we said, 2008 disastrous, you know, like housing and there's 306 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,500 no project. Basically so all my friends that 307 00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:29,800 have graduated from either interior design or architecture 308 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,400 departments, they're all out of jobs, you know. 309 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,000 So they're all at home site literally called six of my 310 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,400 friends and I said, I'll pay you each 200 euro week, two hundred 311 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:45,700 dollar and please help me. So imagine in a matter of 14 312 00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:49,600 days, we pulled out like a 40,000 square feet project with 313 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,800 perspective and Arisen you know, 2000. 314 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,600 Nine, you know, rendering like very realistic rendering. 315 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:01,800 We're not that common, right? So even if you see those renders 316 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,400 like, you laugh, because like, you know, software's have 317 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,900 evolved so much. So this is how I got my first 318 00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:10,400 project we work day and night for 14 days. 319 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,800 I paid everybody 200 euro out of my pocket and this is how I 320 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,500 signed my first project basically, and it was not an 321 00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:20,600 easy ride. No, it's not, right? 322 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,900 But yeah, it was a huge. Of learning. 323 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:25,800 Yes, I'm sure. Yeah. 324 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,400 Because not only did you have to sell the project but then he had 325 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,400 implemented, you have to implement it. 326 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,200 And remember, I graduated in architecture, right? 327 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,900 So this is where my interior design Journey starts because 328 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,100 well, you know, maybe took us three, four months, to kind of 329 00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:44,700 come up with a shell, for the architecture of the villa, and 330 00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:47,400 this is what we knew, right? This is what we knew, but then 331 00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:50,400 you fall into the reality, guess what? 332 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,000 Like, we designed the whole project, it was hilarious. 333 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,300 And then I submitted the drawings and then the contractor 334 00:18:56,300 --> 00:18:59,900 said, wait a second, where are the socket outlets? 335 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,700 And I'm like, and I started crying at forgotten, you know? 336 00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:07,200 Like they don't teach you at school to put, suck it up. 337 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,600 I don't know. They don't teach you like, at 338 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,900 this in architecture, electrical drawings and now like is 339 00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:15,600 important. And so, this is where we did the 340 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,100 interior design during his journey started, right? 341 00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:22,300 So, yeah, just have this logic of For us, going from the 342 00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:27,000 architectural volume to the room by room kind of logic, because 343 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,000 again, you're talking about 40,000 square feet. 344 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,000 So imagine the amount of rooms and like from kitchens two 345 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,400 living rooms two, bedroom, two formal kind of entertainment 346 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,200 areas. So, it was just, as I said, like 347 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,300 really if I have a word in mind is like curve of learning, which 348 00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:48,200 we have incredible, you know, and yeah, when I think of that 349 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,500 project, because I still do project for that same family, It 350 00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:54,900 started with the older brother. And we're actually right now, 351 00:19:54,900 --> 00:20:00,300 working on the younger sister, Villa, and I somehow feel bad 352 00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:02,900 for the older brother, because I'm like, I didn't know 353 00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:05,600 anything, right? Like, I remember learning 354 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,900 lighting during that project, I remember learning so much about 355 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,200 interior materials and bathroom design. 356 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,900 And how do you design a through mean to did, you know, there's 357 00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,800 such a huge gap between concept and reality. 358 00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:26,000 And I think this is what made us become a successful design 359 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,600 office is we care so much about the reality rather than just 360 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,600 like ideas on papers? And yeah, this came from that 361 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,600 first project because, you know, I didn't have a choice, our 362 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,400 drawings, we're going on sites directly. 363 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,100 So when you design a bathroom and then you design a niche in a 364 00:20:42,100 --> 00:20:45,400 bathroom, and what you design is not very realistic because the 365 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,300 corners are going to be disgusting and you see it, you 366 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:50,100 don't do that. Same mistake twice, right? 367 00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:54,400 Better than So this is how I started basically really 368 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,500 Hands-On. Yeah. 369 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,000 Wow. So you had your friends that 370 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,200 were helping you for submitting the project then did they stay 371 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,400 with you after that? Or so this is really the premise 372 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,800 is like the very beginning of my company. 373 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:13,300 I mean a few of them so I was still having a full-time job at 374 00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:17,100 the University, lecturing an interior in the interior design 375 00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:19,200 department. So that was also very 376 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:23,700 interesting and then you You know, obviously my side job 377 00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:27,600 which was more hours than my actual job was, you know, to 378 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,800 design this project. So yeah, I had actually my 379 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,300 friends that I hired from the school. 380 00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:36,600 And yeah, so they stick to with me for good like you're and a 381 00:21:36,608 --> 00:21:40,900 half two years and then you know, teams went and came and 382 00:21:40,900 --> 00:21:42,700 this is how, you know, slowly slowly. 383 00:21:42,700 --> 00:21:48,500 I think after two years, I established the license and quit 384 00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:52,600 my, you know, job at the University, Ching and had 385 00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:54,700 obvious in Saudi had an office in Dubai. 386 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:58,700 And this is how you know, little by little, you know, the office 387 00:21:58,700 --> 00:22:01,700 and the team expanded. And of course, even that on its 388 00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:04,900 own is a huge Journey. You know, for me like the 389 00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:11,300 learning curve of the design aspect is equally as hard as the 390 00:22:11,300 --> 00:22:14,900 entrepreneurial aspect if yeah. I was entrepreneur aspects 391 00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:18,800 actually way harder because the design part is what you love. 392 00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:20,500 Is what you have fun with the right. 393 00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:25,200 So for me me, I always had funds going to suppliers learning 394 00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:28,700 things that I didn't know, you know, and I was lucky enough to 395 00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:30,500 do those very high-end projects, right? 396 00:22:30,500 --> 00:22:35,400 So I think you're when you're in that kind of Niche, you learn so 397 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,100 much because let's say you go to a Furniture supplier. 398 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,900 I mean, you know, you have a lot of family owned houses in 399 00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:44,900 Europe. In Italy, in France. 400 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,600 Particular, let's say, you know, a fabric house like lamb is a 401 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,900 computer today, which was known worldwide. 402 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,300 That they know their job for decades and centuries, you know, 403 00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:58,200 so you learn so much from them in every aspect from fabric to 404 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,100 lighting to Furniture. So I was really lucky to evolve 405 00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:05,900 with this kind of steer, but then the entrepreneurial Journey 406 00:23:05,900 --> 00:23:09,900 was another story because I didn't really have a mentor to 407 00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:11,900 tell me the things. I wish I could tell somebody 408 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:15,400 today, you know, yeah, wanted their interior design or their, 409 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,000 you know, they did, they design studio. 410 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,500 So so yeah. I mean, yeah, it was a whole 411 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:21,800 process. Yes obviously. 412 00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:23,700 Wow. Yeah. 413 00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:28,700 So do you ever have any interns or do you do any mentoring 414 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,600 current we do? We recently actually you know 415 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,400 that first contractor that I talked to you about. 416 00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:37,800 So the son of the contractor which you know, we evolved 417 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,400 together like around the years. He's daughter who just graduated 418 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,200 in interior design in the UK flew to Dubai to have an 419 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,900 internship with us because when I think is very important but 420 00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:53,300 even Beyond interns We always have like Junior designers, 421 00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:56,100 right? Like junior interior designers 422 00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:58,700 after 15 years of running this business. 423 00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:03,000 I'm always like I'm so tired of training people but that's what 424 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,200 you have to do if you want to delegate. 425 00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:09,800 Yeah you have to keep on training people and whoever I 426 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,800 hire like we just hired a new very junior interior designer 427 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,900 fresh off the boat. And I told her consider you know 428 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,900 nothing and then all the The meetings and just listen to what 429 00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:25,300 happens. And I notice I seen her face 430 00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:28,200 that sometimes she doesn't understand half of the things 431 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,000 we're talking about. But nonetheless, at least, you 432 00:24:31,008 --> 00:24:33,900 know, she gets accustomed to. You know, when you're an 433 00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:37,100 interior design school, you don't learn about MEP, right? 434 00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:39,700 You don't learn about a see, you don't learn about the 435 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:43,500 technicality of everything, but a big part of your job. 436 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:46,800 I think, when you design a room is to think, okay, what's the 437 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,000 impact of that? A Sea Grill in my space, right? 438 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,400 Or what's the impact Dove electrical work in my space 439 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,300 because true high-end interior design. 440 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,600 It's about all those details, you know? 441 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,600 So I guess. Yeah, the training goes to make 442 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:09,400 them from concept to reality and I always care about, this is 443 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,400 what I care. I think, at school, I always 444 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,400 said it, I think what matters to me is to develop your brain in 445 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,700 terms of thinking. Because the technical aspect, 446 00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:21,400 you know, for me at school, somebody could have Explain me 447 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,900 10 times. I was a c or electrical was 448 00:25:24,900 --> 00:25:27,900 working or Plumbing. I would not have understood, you 449 00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:30,100 know. I think I understood when I saw 450 00:25:30,100 --> 00:25:32,600 it in front of me but Yankee 100%. 451 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,000 Yeah. I think what matters really in 452 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,200 interior design studies and even in the early years is to 453 00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:42,100 understand. Problem solving is to understand 454 00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:46,300 relationship with clients is to understand how to have like a 455 00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:51,800 conceptual mind, you know, how to put an idea into Into paper, 456 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,200 you know, I need to because to me this is the biggest quality 457 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,700 of I always say, like, designers, we are like 458 00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:01,100 psychiatrists or psychologists know. 459 00:26:01,100 --> 00:26:04,000 Like, it's almost like psychologist for me. 460 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,700 This is what I tell my client. I'm like I'm no longer an 461 00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:09,200 architect. I'm a full-on psychologist 462 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,500 because, you know, you have two, especially when you do 463 00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:15,700 Residential projects, I think is so intimate and so into ink to 464 00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:20,000 the customer that you have to have a deep understanding of 465 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,300 their vision. Ian and your vision. 466 00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,400 You put it back together basically. 467 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:27,700 Yeah, really good advice. Yea, that's great. 468 00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:31,100 So do you primarily then do Residential projects? 469 00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:33,900 Are you mixed with commercial? Yeah. 470 00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:37,200 So right now, I mean in the past and you know, through our 471 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,500 websites, you know, the audience could find a lot of like even 472 00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:45,400 restaurants FNB commercial, but now for the past I would say two 473 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,900 or three years we focused on high-end residential so that's 474 00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:54,200 that typically what we do. And the reason is that, I don't 475 00:26:54,200 --> 00:27:00,500 like budgets, and I also don't like to do things very, very 476 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:06,300 fast and because our Niche is to go into that segment of super 477 00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:10,400 high quality, right? And quality is money and quality 478 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,700 is time, right? So it's like when we I mean 479 00:27:13,700 --> 00:27:18,100 we're designing right now in Dubai an island, which has the 480 00:27:18,100 --> 00:27:21,000 bill, Gary hotel and there are the real Gary residences As 481 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,600 we're designing one of the penthouse, which is very, very 482 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,900 exclusive. So when you design projects, 483 00:27:25,900 --> 00:27:28,600 like this, that when the sales is on the newspaper, you know, 484 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:29,800 you need to take your time, right? 485 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,100 And yeah, let's know. We buy marbles from Italy or you 486 00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:37,500 buy, you know, sanity wear anything like those things are 487 00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:39,400 crafted and there are handcrafted. 488 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,300 So lead time is six months, you know, so it takes, and it's 489 00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:48,200 very, very expensive. You know, especially host covid 490 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,600 the crisis in the supply chain, I You know so yeah that's the 491 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,300 reason why right now we're doing high-end residential because I 492 00:27:56,300 --> 00:27:59,700 realized that at this stage for me, it's very interesting to 493 00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:01,900 learn. I mean, this is the only way 494 00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:04,900 that for me. I keep evolving is to learn from 495 00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:08,800 those arches on kind of house. For example, now we are working 496 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,800 with the company in Italy that manufacturers kitchens and their 497 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,400 specialized in stone work. But they're so good at what they 498 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,700 do in terms of stonework that we learned so much, you know, about 499 00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:22,800 this. Detailing and believe it or not, 500 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,100 we've been working maybe four or five months just on the TV 501 00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:29,000 cabinet. I've seen not a simple TV 502 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,200 cabinet but nonetheless a TV cabinet, right? 503 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:37,400 So it's so much hours and back and forth between us, Italy. 504 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,700 And I have to fly to Tuscany to see the stone. 505 00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:44,600 And again, it's in the worry of the details, right? 506 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,500 So again, High project, I think what makes the difference is the 507 00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:50,800 detail, right? That's it. 508 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,400 The difference between a commercial project even a normal 509 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,100 residential project and a high-end residential project, 510 00:28:57,100 --> 00:28:58,600 right? Because again, when you do with 511 00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:03,300 the kind of customer, we have that, you know, travel the word 512 00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:07,500 have properties, all over the world from New York, to London 513 00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:11,700 to Paris to do by, the expectations are insane, you 514 00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:16,600 know, so I think you have to kind of step up to that. 515 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,600 Yeah, have to step up and I always say, like interior design 516 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,900 and Architecture for anyone that wants to jump into this field. 517 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:31,000 The spectrum of what you do is so broad again, at least in our 518 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,500 practice, I always have like employees or ex-employees, you 519 00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:36,900 know? Like, I'm always surprised like, 520 00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:40,400 when every year I sit with them. Like, so how do you fit in the 521 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,500 company? What could we improve? 522 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,400 And I'm always like, positively surprised because of course, 523 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,500 it's a lot of pressure, but I'm always positively surprised when 524 00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:54,400 they say we Learn so much in this company because so we take 525 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,700 on projects from A to Z, you know, from again architecture to 526 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,700 the early of the keys. So meaning that we hired a 527 00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:05,500 contractor. So it's also very particular 528 00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:08,900 business model. We hired a contractor, we handle 529 00:30:08,900 --> 00:30:13,300 all procurement aspect, you know which I often feel in interior 530 00:30:13,300 --> 00:30:15,700 design is a, is a very big part. Yeah. 531 00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:18,300 The last thing that you want is to design something. 532 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,800 And then for x y, z reason, what you've designed And is not 533 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,400 implemented. Yes it's a kind of controlling 534 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:30,500 the whole process from a to zed massive responsibility, but also 535 00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:34,200 it could be a huge reward because then the product that 536 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,400 you've designed the renderer let's say the reality is even 537 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,300 better than the rent under. So that's the interesting part 538 00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:44,700 but it's also a lot of responsibility. 539 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,700 Yeah. Yeah for sure. 540 00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:50,700 So you had to really develop your team as far as like art 541 00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:55,300 Then the and craftsmen who can do all these custom designs that 542 00:30:55,300 --> 00:30:57,200 you're coming up with, for this higher has. 543 00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:00,500 Yeah, absolutely. Even in my own team. 544 00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:05,200 So we have Architects interior, designers, Furniture designer, 545 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,700 as we know, it's very broad, right? 546 00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:11,300 I'd like we even have a textile designer, you know, that works 547 00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:15,000 with print patterns. And so again, we'll take care 548 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:19,100 about at the end, is to me it doesn't matter whether you 549 00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:22,700 graduated in interior, design or Architecture or because for me 550 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,100 all those fields they have to cross passes, you know? 551 00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:31,800 Like for me it's impossible to I've been asked so many times to 552 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,600 come handle. The interior design of a project 553 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,300 that was already done. You know, like let's say there 554 00:31:36,300 --> 00:31:39,100 is a veal and somebody has already designed the 555 00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:42,500 architecture and you're called in for the interior design. 556 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:48,000 Well, so many mistakes because the Architects do not think from 557 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,900 an interior perspective, right? So my not Like my design, all 558 00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:54,900 those huge windows and full of glazing. 559 00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:57,500 But then, you know, what did you think of the curtains, right? 560 00:31:57,500 --> 00:32:00,600 But you didn't think face the curtain track is going to take 561 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,300 for me. The balance has to be equal. 562 00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:06,400 You know, you can't endure without thinking of the outdoor. 563 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:12,400 It does not work in the team. We have a very broad spectrum of 564 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,800 competences but line. I think what I try to train 565 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,500 everyone. What I've trained myself to is 566 00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:22,600 to understand everything from A to Z, you know? 567 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,300 Yeah, of course you have lighting designers. 568 00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:30,000 For example, you have landscapers but, you know, very 569 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,200 often, we do this in-house. Yeah, when I've tried, like I've 570 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,100 tried to hire external, let's say lighting designers, but then 571 00:32:39,100 --> 00:32:43,100 I feel there is some sort of Miss coordination or that. 572 00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:47,800 At the end of the day, like the vision is full, when every 573 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,400 aspect of design is taken into consideration, you know, This is 574 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,400 where we obtain the most successful projects. 575 00:32:54,500 --> 00:32:58,900 Hmm, yeah. So with such a high touch 576 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,900 high-end industry, that you're in, I'm sure there's so many 577 00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:05,400 moving parts and at times things. 578 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,200 Go wrong. Is there a mindset that you have 579 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,700 to maintain in order to know that things will go wrong, but 580 00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:14,900 you're gonna move forward still. Of course. 581 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:19,600 Well, it's a very hard part and I think all the gray hairs that 582 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,700 I have up-to-date sorbet, Because of everything that went 583 00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:25,900 wrong as you know, for the past two years but of course 584 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,600 everything goes wrong on every single project that's that's 585 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,200 like a guarantee. You just have to in the very 586 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,100 beginning, it was so hard for me and I used to get so angry and I 587 00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:41,100 was like, then, you know, error is human, you know. 588 00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:45,800 So at the end of the day, is just try to prepare it so much 589 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,800 so much like we're preparing every possibility of mistake. 590 00:33:49,900 --> 00:33:53,800 We try to prepare Just today, I was driving and in my studio 591 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,700 manager called me and was like, you know, we have all these 592 00:33:56,700 --> 00:34:00,900 marble being delivered on site, but there's no forklift on site. 593 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,500 So can we deliberate at the Contractors Warehouse? 594 00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:08,699 And I was like, no, the marble is going to break, it's okay. 595 00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:12,400 A storage fees on the spot like, you know, so it's just you try 596 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,600 to because I've done this mistake 10 times already and I 597 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,100 broke the marble and then lead time and, you know, so I guess 598 00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:23,699 the mindset is just Keep calm and it's just designed. 599 00:34:23,699 --> 00:34:27,199 I think this is one of the most like, a friend of mine gave me 600 00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:31,000 this very valuable advice. And this is how I calm down my 601 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,300 own customers, right? So and there are very high, net 602 00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:38,800 worth individual, that are used to have everything on the spot. 603 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,699 But the reality Rebecca is that, at the end of the day is just 604 00:34:42,699 --> 00:34:44,900 design is just materialistic things. 605 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,100 Yeah, you know, something is implemented wrong. 606 00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:50,500 Well, it's okay. It can be redone. 607 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,600 We're going to lose a week, but nobody's gonna die. 608 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,400 If the client moves a week, later into a property that is 609 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,800 going to have four years, right? Yeah, but perfectionist and I'm, 610 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,500 this is my biggest. I would say Pro and cons like in 611 00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:09,100 my personality, it's very hard. Because when you're a 612 00:35:09,100 --> 00:35:13,200 perfectionist and you want that little Edge to be perfect but 613 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,000 sometimes you have to accept that, maybe you're going to have 614 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:19,100 to redo it three times because maybe the contractor is not 615 00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:20,600 going to understand what you mean or is not. 616 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,500 Going to have the eyes that you have, you know? 617 00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:27,000 And like somebody maybe that edge is okay, before you is not 618 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,300 okay or like yesterday, you know, we post a lot on our 619 00:35:31,300 --> 00:35:35,000 social media and like my team always makes fun of me but we 620 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,900 spent maybe two hours looking at the wood sample. 621 00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:42,800 Because I kept saying no but sorry this wood is too 622 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,200 saturated. The grain is the veneers to read 623 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,700 is to read and I like you had 20 people thinking that I was 624 00:35:49,700 --> 00:35:53,500 completely crazy. The with again this is when you 625 00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:56,600 do super high-end projects. Yeah. 626 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,400 And and if we do the full door and it comes wrong, well guess 627 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:01,900 what? I'm going to have to be very 628 00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:06,300 calm, explain the client that this was not the intent and it's 629 00:36:06,300 --> 00:36:08,400 okay, you know? So I always say that like I 630 00:36:08,408 --> 00:36:12,900 remember two years ago I had a client losing it on me because 631 00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:17,800 of the wallpaper and wallpaper that took six months to be made 632 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,900 and was like handmade and hand painted and it It came and it 633 00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:25,500 was the wrong height. I want to cry myself. 634 00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:29,200 But yeah, the client Austin completely and I had to really 635 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,100 like, do a little meditation in my head in 30 second and say you 636 00:36:33,107 --> 00:36:37,600 know is just interior design. Think that everything is 637 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,400 relative, right? So this is this is the kind of 638 00:36:40,408 --> 00:36:44,100 mindset that I tried to keep in our case. 639 00:36:44,100 --> 00:36:47,800 What's difficult, sometimes is because we have the 640 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,000 responsibility of the budget and the money. 641 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:55,300 So, I try to teach my team to really be conscious because 642 00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:58,300 guess what, if there is a mistake on a drawing and you 643 00:36:58,308 --> 00:37:00,800 know, like I'm talking about that TV cabinet that I was 644 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,800 telling you but but TV cabinet cost nearly 200-thousand dollar. 645 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,300 So at tiny mistake, on the drawing means that mistaken 646 00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:12,500 production means I'm bleeding twenty thirty thousand dollar 647 00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:14,800 because I'm going to have to redo something right and that's 648 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,900 not the client, right? That's my team. 649 00:37:17,900 --> 00:37:21,700 That did something wrong. So, this is also, So very hard 650 00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:25,700 to make everybody understand. I think, when you have your own 651 00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:30,600 business, you have to factor in finances and risk. 652 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,300 Yeah. And risk. 653 00:37:32,300 --> 00:37:33,600 So yeah. Yeah. 654 00:37:33,900 --> 00:37:35,200 Yeah. And I think especially getting 655 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,700 into higher end, more custom detailing, there's more risk 656 00:37:39,700 --> 00:37:42,600 involved because of that, like you're saying just one little 657 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,200 thing going wrong, then you've got to pay out tens of thousands 658 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,200 for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's 659 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,000 timing. Also you know, it's I mean, 660 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,400 because you tell your clients and I always say, I think in our 661 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,300 field, what's important is how to manage expectations, 662 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,000 especially if you end up having very high, net worth 663 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,300 individuals, as customers, you have to manage their 664 00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:08,300 expectations because if you say, I tell this to my team, I'm 665 00:38:08,300 --> 00:38:12,400 like, please to anyone if you think you're going to finish 666 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,200 this task on Tuesday, say Tuesday, otherwise don't say 667 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,000 Tuesday, if you're 100% sure because it's matter of 668 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,500 expectation. So that goes in terms of site 669 00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:28,000 Handover if my contractor tells me and I sign a contract with my 670 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,300 contractor saying, you know, met guaranteed, I'm not telling me 671 00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:37,500 to the client because I know I suffered too much of like being 672 00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:41,800 transparent like this, it never anything, the contractor will 673 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:46,800 tell me, I add 20% time you, let's tells me I'm telling the 674 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,600 client July and if July works, it's a miracle. 675 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:56,100 And already. I know it's managing expectation 676 00:38:56,100 --> 00:39:01,000 and magic and you can only gain it by doing it doing mistakes. 677 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:04,400 And doing these texts are going to make you cry, you know, as a 678 00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:08,700 business owner, as a designer if you really care about what you 679 00:39:08,700 --> 00:39:13,200 do and and we do and I really do then it's hard, you know, like I 680 00:39:13,207 --> 00:39:17,300 will never let go of, you know, a wrong paint color or I will 681 00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:20,600 never let go at even if there's so much money. 682 00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:25,200 Be involved but I think I guess you learn also like as you go on 683 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,200 with your practice you also have to sometimes mitigate if the 684 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,800 parquet is not the exact same tone that you wanted but 685 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,800 everybody says it's stunning. You're like okay, it's done, you 686 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,200 know like if the class have to let go of the own Perfection 687 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,500 that you have in your brain as a designer, you know, yes, 100% so 688 00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:47,000 good. Wow. 689 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,200 Thank you. God, for all of the great ways. 690 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,000 I feel like We could just talk forever, you'd have more and 691 00:39:53,008 --> 00:39:57,500 more advice to say anything to me. 692 00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:01,500 Yeah anything else. Just last shot here for an 693 00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:05,000 up-and-coming designer or someone curious about the career 694 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,200 that you would give some advice for them. 695 00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:11,900 I mean I would say the Vida passionate about the pasture 696 00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:16,600 taking like any other job actually whether a designer any 697 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,700 other job be so passionate because in this field I mean I 698 00:40:20,707 --> 00:40:23,200 think is so hard. You have to be so attached to 699 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,800 and loving what you're doing because you know, long hours, 700 00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:30,300 difficult clients. It's a service job, right? 701 00:40:30,300 --> 00:40:33,500 It's a service job and you're dealing with visuals. 702 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,100 So never forget that that your you have in front of you, people 703 00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:39,600 that when they are going to be in a good mood, when they are 704 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,500 going to be in a bad mood, whether you do huge commercial 705 00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:46,300 project, whether you do tiny project, it always goes back to 706 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,300 humans. So I think if you're not good at 707 00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:55,900 Being good with humans also like be aware of that and yeah and I 708 00:40:55,908 --> 00:40:58,900 think you have to love what you do and always be willing to 709 00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:02,600 learn because there's so much Innovation as well in this field 710 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,600 you know. So always willing to learn and 711 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:10,800 always look around and I think like traveling and also always 712 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,400 helps, you know, when it comes to design and design ideas and 713 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,800 and find your past because it's such a huge Spectrum, right? 714 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,300 Like you could have Have designers interior designers 715 00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:25,900 that are only designing your thoughts or hospitals, or hotels 716 00:41:25,900 --> 00:41:30,600 or and me, I didn't focus in the beginning. 717 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:35,300 I was doing a bit of everything but it allowed me to kind of 718 00:41:35,300 --> 00:41:38,700 learn what I wear. I wanted to go and then once you 719 00:41:38,700 --> 00:41:42,400 find out what you're the best at, then just my push, pushing 720 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,600 that path. And you know, be patient because 721 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,100 I guess, you know, when you're young and you're motivated, 722 00:41:49,100 --> 00:41:52,300 designer entrepreneur, For interior design entrepreneur. 723 00:41:52,700 --> 00:41:56,800 There's a lot of impatience, but I think with age and practice 724 00:41:57,700 --> 00:42:00,800 patience is key. Yes, so good. 725 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,400 Well, thank you so much Nina for coming on the show. 726 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,700 Thank you so much. All right, we'll talk to you 727 00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:08,300 later. Thank you. 728 00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:17,600 Bye. What an inspiration, she has 729 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:22,000 accomplished so much at a young age and still has so much more 730 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,600 to give. And I love her willingness to 731 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:29,200 learn and try new things and her process that is completely 732 00:42:29,500 --> 00:42:33,000 unique and knowing that she doesn't know it, all she goes 733 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,900 through all the same hardships that every other interior 734 00:42:35,900 --> 00:42:39,300 designer does but she picked herself back up and know. 735 00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:44,000 Knows how to move past all the struggles and make the project 736 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,700 come out a success in the end. So go check out Nina's 737 00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:51,500 information because you're going to want to learn a lot more from 738 00:42:51,500 --> 00:42:55,300 her and don't forget that you're going to want to leave a review 739 00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:58,600 of design curious podcast so you can get the promo code. 740 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,200 The last week you can promotion ends this month in June. 741 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,600 So you can get the promo code to aircrafts or eats masterclass on 742 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:12,000 brand storytelling and Find out all the information of the other 743 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,000 offerings I have in the show notes. 744 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,700 Stay tuned for next week. Another great episode on design, 745 00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:20,200 Kirsten until then stay creative. 746 00:43:21,900 --> 00:43:24,600 Thanks for listening. If you loved this episode, 747 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,400 please leave a rating and a review. 748 00:43:26,500 --> 00:43:28,700 This helps me reach other curious creatives. 749 00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:32,400 Like you, if you have a topic request or would like to contact 750 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,200 me, simply head over to my website, our Ward design.com or 751 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,300 email me at podcast. At our war design.com. 752 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,300 At our war design.com.