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If you don't go into a grocery 
store and tell the produce guy, 

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how much did you guys actually 
buy these apples for? 

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Because you're selling them for 
like a dollar a piece, but I 

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think you only bought it for 
$0.25. 

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And so I don't think you should 
be making $0.75 on that apple. 

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That's not fair to me. 
Can I buy this cheaper somewhere

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else? 
Nobody does that, right? 

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But they do that to interior 
designers. 

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That's exactly what they're 
doing. 

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So that's kind of the the result
though I think of these TV 

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programs, I think this really 
has shifted our industry and it 

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as a result, people completely 
misunderstand the role of a 

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designer. 
You're now listening to Design 

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Curious, a place where you 
creative one, are here to learn 

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about what it really is like to 
be an interior designer. 

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And I'm your host and mentor, 
Rebecca Ward. 

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If you're worried about how to 
succeed in a creative career, if

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you're ready to learn your next 
steps to become an interior 

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designer, and if you want the 
satisfaction of doing something 

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you love every day, you are in 
the right place. 

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Grab a coffee, a notebook, and 
let's dig into today's episode. 

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Hello, and welcome to episode 
187 of Design Curious podcast. 

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Today on the podcast, I'm 
talking about why most interior 

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designers struggle to get 
clients and it's not what you 

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think. 
It's not talent. 

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Most designers assume that if 
they were just more talented or 

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more experienced or had a bigger
portfolio, they would finally 

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get clients. 
But that's not actually what's 

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happening. 
So we're going to get into that 

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in the episode. 
And before we do, I want to 

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remind you I have that replay of
the webinar I did before the 

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last boot camp. 
It's called From Passion to 

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Profit, 5 Money Moves to Start 
your interior design business, 

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right? 
And you can catch that replay. 

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It was very well received and I 
had some good information in 

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there for making wise money 
decisions when you're starting 

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your business as an interior 
designer. 

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So you can find a link for that 
in the show notes. 

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It's also on my podcast page on 
the website at our award 

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design.com. 
So go and check that out. 

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All right, let's talk about what
is actually the problem for 

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designers when they're not 
getting clients. 

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So the truth is there are 
incredibly talented designers 

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out there who are struggling to 
get work, and there's good but 

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not exceptional designers out 
there who are fully booked. 

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So what's the difference? 
It's not talent, obviously. 

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It's how those designers think 
about their value and 

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communicate it is what's setting
them apart. 

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So let's break that down. 
Imposter syndrome is something 

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that we need to talk about often
because it comes up a lot, 

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right? 
So imposter syndrome is quietly 

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running the show of these 
designers who aren't getting 

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booked because they might enter 
the industry because they love 

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creativity and beauty. 
We all do, right? 

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We have a passion for design. 
But the moment they start 

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charging real money for their 
services, something creeps in 

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and that's imposter syndrome. 
So they might be thinking, who 

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am I to charge for this? 
What if the client doesn't like 

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it? 
Maybe I should lower my price 

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until I get more experience. 
What happens as a result? 

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Well, they unintentionally 
position themselves as less 

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valuable to the prospective 
client. 

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It's not that they have no 
talent OR have less talent than 

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anyone else, it's just that they
don't see themselves as valuable

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and as a result, they over 
deliver. 

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They might undercharge, over 
explain and apologize for the 

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pricing because they don't 
really believe in the pricing 

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themselves. 
The common misconception of 

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designers is that anybody could 
do this. 

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I'm just the one doing it. 
And that's not true. 

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You have a talent, you have a 
special vision and ability to 

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put a room together, to design 
it, to anticipate the needs of 

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the client and all those things 
that go into design as well as 

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managing. 
There's a million things that 

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have to go into the project. 
It is a very, very important 

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job. 
It's not brain surgery as some 

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people say, but it has a lot of 
steps and a lot of details and 

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it is a really, really 
undervalued career. 

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Clients can feel that lack of 
confidence immediately when they

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see like, oh, you, you're only 
charging $100 for an hour for 

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your services and you've been 
working for five years and this 

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client over here is charging 
$300.00 an hour and they've been

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working for three years. 
So what's the difference here? 

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Well, the difference is mindset.
And the confidence signals 

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expertise and expertise attracts
clients. 

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The confident designer, the one 
who believes that what they're 

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doing is unique, that they have 
a unique position in life to be 

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able to design and to change 
people's lives through that. 

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That is valuable. 
The clients will pick up on that

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and they need to be charging 
appropriately for it. 

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I've heard it said like if 
you're going in for a facelift, 

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you don't want to get the 
cheapest surgeon around, right? 

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You want the one who is probably
the most expensive because you 

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are perceiving that they are 
charging a lot because they know

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more and that they can do a 
better job. 

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All right. 
The other point that might come 

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up is that designers are 
actually selling the wrong 

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thing. 
So most designers will market 

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themselves like this. 
They'll say I create beautiful 

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spaces and that is the truth. 
We all do create beautiful 

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spaces, but that's the least 
interesting thing about what we 

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do, right? 
Beauty is subjective, so not 

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everyone's going to think that 
you create beautiful spaces, but

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the what the client is actually 
wanting to hear from you besides

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that you create beautiful 
spaces. 

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That's a given, right? 
They are expecting. 

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If you're a designer for a 
living, then you should be able 

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to create a beautiful space. 
But what they really need is a 

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home that functions better. 
A space that will reduce stress,

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a space that reflects who they 
are and a home that they're 

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proud to welcome people into and
entertain, and a home that 

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supports how they live day in 
and day out. 

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So that is what designers really
need to hit home, is that they 

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don't just decorate, They're not
just pillow fluffers. 

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And that they actually can 
change how people live, how they

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move through a space, how they 
feel when they walk in the door,

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how the families gather, how 
work happens at home and how 

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rest happens at night. 
It's not just decoration. 

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Yes, we can decorate. 
That's fine, But that is not the

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primary goal of interior design.
We want human focused design for

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these houses. 
Someone's going to live there. 

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Someone needs to use that 
beautiful desk, that sofa. 

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Someone's going to sit on that. 
Do they have a dog? 

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You know, there's so many things
that go to consider the 

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selections that you're making 
besides just that. 

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It's beautiful. 
Most designers don't really talk

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about it that way. 
There's a great book called 

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Story Brand by Donald Miller. 
I have it on my book list. 

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It was one that really opened my
eyes to see that the copy on my 

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website and my communications 
through social media and other 

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platforms really needs to be 
focused on the client and what 

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their needs are and what their 
problem is and how I can solve 

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that problem for them and that 
they are actually the hero in 

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the story. 
I'm just the guide to guide them

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through it. 
It's a complete mindset shift 

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for a lot of designers because 
most designers will just see 

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their website as a portfolio, 
digital portfolio, a place to 

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park their beautiful projects. 
There's usually hardly any copy 

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on there. 
It's just the, the projects 

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speak for themselves, right? 
And then contact me here if you 

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want to work with me. 
I know that if I were the 

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consumer looking at those 
websites, I would want more 

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information before reaching out.
What kind of process do you 

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have? 
How much would it typically 

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cost? 
All these things I think would 

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be beneficial for a client 
wanting to update their space or

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build a new house or whatever it
is they come to interior 

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designers for. 
All right? 

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Another point that might come up
is that designers underestimate 

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the science of what they do. 
So there's an entire body of 

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knowledge around how 
environments affect people, 

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lighting effects, circadian 
rhythms. 

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We know circadian rhythms. 
That's like when your body 

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naturally wants to wake up and 
be active and then start 

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relaxing in the evening and it 
kind of follows the sun through 

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the day. 
So changing the lighting to 

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match like what the daylight is 
happening outside. 

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You don't want daylight at 11 O 
clock at night in your living 

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room. 
You want it to be more 

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candlelight because it's soft 
and it helps you to wind down 

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for the day. 
Looking at what colors can 

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affect your mood. 
Looking at furniture layout and 

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how it affects conversation 
connection in a space. 

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I recently went to a talk on 
Feng shui. 

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We've also had Feng Shui expert 
on the podcast and there's a lot

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that goes into that. 
By rearranging the furniture in 

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a space, you can open up 
conversation and then make it 

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feel inviting and connective to 
other spaces in the house. 

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Clutter can also affect 
cognitive load and stress in a 

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space. 
It can be overwhelming. 

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It can affect your personal, 
your actual physical health and 

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mental health. 
And so designers actually fairly

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intuitively understand a lot of 
these things. 

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They might not know surface 
level what they're doing, but 

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they are in tune with what the 
space needs and how to create it

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for the client. 
So they're probably doing a lot 

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of these things naturally and 
it, it's great to study the 

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science in design to understand 
actually what you're doing and 

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put words to it and help educate
your client. 

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Like This is why I made these 
selections. 

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Because the science proves that 
when you're in the space in the 

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evening, you're going to want 
lower lights. 

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We're going to have dimmers. 
We're going to have, you know, 

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lower Kelvins just so that it's 
softer and it gets you prepared 

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for resting and for sleep. 
But the industry often markets 

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design like it's just throw 
pillows, pretty finishes. 

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And in reality, design sits at 
the intersection of psychology, 

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architecture, ergonomics, 
behavior psychology, sensory 

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experience. 
All of this comes together. 

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And there's actually a program 
called Science in Design. 

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It's a curriculum that some of 
my colleagues have been taking, 

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and I'm very interested in 
taking myself. 

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And it gets quite rigorous, but 
it proves the point that design 

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is not frivolous. 
It's deeply tied to human 

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well-being. 
OK, another thing we need to 

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talk about is the HGTV consumer 
problem, as I would call it. 

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Or it could just be any home 
network TV channel, doesn't have

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to be HGTV, where this kind of 
changed the culture, right? 

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If for interior designers, all 
of a sudden people were seeing 

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remodels happen and there's a 
lot of information that was 

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being left out of these remodels
or these new builds or these 

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00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:54,040
refurnishings of spaces and, you
know, swapping with your 

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00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:56,960
neighbor and just designing on a
dime. 

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And people love watching these 
television shows. 

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00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,960
It's entertaining, it's 
inspiring. 

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00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,280
And then it also has a backlash,
though. 

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00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,320
It's trained people to think 
that design is easy and 

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00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,800
designers just pick things out 
and that everything should be 

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itemized so that they can see 
how much each item costs and 

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00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,960
that they can just take that 
list to Amazon and just purchase

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everything that they need. 
And then anyone can source those

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00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,520
products online. 
And designers are just marking 

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00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,920
things up so that they can make 
some money, but they're not 

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00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,360
actually needing to do that. 
So this the consumer starts 

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00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,560
asking, well, how much are you 
making on this project? 

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00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,480
And can I buy this for a cheaper
somewhere else? 

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00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,320
And can you just tell me where 
to get everything? 

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00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:50,520
I mean, you wouldn't, people 
wouldn't do this for other 

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00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,080
industries. 
You don't go into a grocery 

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00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:59,360
store and tell the produce guy, 
how much did you guys actually 

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00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,560
buy these apples for? 
Because you're selling them for 

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00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:05,000
like a dollar apiece. 
But I think you only bought it 

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00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,400
for $0.25. 
And so I don't think you should 

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00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,520
be making $0.75 on that apple. 
That's not fair to me. 

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00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,720
Can I buy this cheaper somewhere
else? 

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00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,080
Nobody does that, right? 
But they do that to interior 

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00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,280
designers. 
That's exactly what they're 

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00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,640
doing. 
So that's kind of the result, 

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00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,160
though, I think of these TV 
programs. 

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I'm on a soapbox here, but you 
know, bear with me. 

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I think this really has shifted 
our industry and as a result, 

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people completely misunderstand 
the role of a designer. 

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Clients are not wanting to pay 
for the products. 

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They're not understanding that 
what they're actually needing to

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pay for from a designer is 
vision to curate it to problem 

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solve, make those million 
decisions that they would have 

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to make on their own. 
Avoiding costly mistakes is 

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huge. 
Like doing it right the first 

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time saves you so much money 
than doing it five times the 

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wrong way, right? 
Accessing trade resources, 

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saving time, creating cohesion 
throughout the space instead of 

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just being really kitschy and 
having one room be this thing, 

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one room be that thing. 
A designer can help clients 

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spend their money better than 
they could on their own. 

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So that's kind of key, like I 
think needs to be communicated 

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to the public is that designers 
actually save you money, even 

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though we cost a lot of money 
because we're worth it, first of

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all, but we're also, we have a 
great talent, but we are 

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actually going to spend your 
money better than you can when 

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it comes to your home. 
And so that value is enormous. 

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It's really hard, though, for 
designers to adapt that mindset,

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to communicate that to their 
clients. 

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And so I think designers kind of
need to take back their power a 

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little bit in this area. 
And this is where I believe the 

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industry needs to shift. 
Designers need to stop 

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positioning themselves like 
retail assistance. 

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I mean, they've got stores for 
that, right? 

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They do free design services by 
shopping in their store. 

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You're not a shopping guide and 
you're not just a sourcing 

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service. 
You're actually an expert 

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consultant in the built 
environment. 

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And designers see things other 
stone. 

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They see scale issues, lighting 
problems, architectural 

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imbalance, and you know when if 
room doesn't feel right, the 

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visual weight of it. 
They see how materials interact 

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with each other. 
They have vision and that's so 

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much broader and they can fathom
scope so much better than a lot 

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of their clients. 
And they can see how color moves

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through a home. 
It's like another sense that we 

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have, right? 
And there may be a client here 

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or there who actually has that. 
Maybe they should have been a 

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designer and maybe they can 
design their own. 

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That's fine. 
They shouldn't maybe be hiring a

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designer. 
Maybe they should just do on 

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their own. 
But not everybody can do what a 

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designer does, is my point. 
Designers shape the environment 

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where someone's life happens 
every day, and that's owerful 

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work. 
And when designers start 

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communicating that clearly, 
things will start to change and 

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clients will begin to see the 
value as well. 

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By communicating all those 
things I just talked about, 

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adapting that mindset and then 
coming full circle and letting 

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your client know, OK, I'm not 
just your shopping buddy here. 

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I'm not just going to hand you a
list and be like, that's all I'm

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valuable for now. 
I can actually save you money. 

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I can spend your money better 
than you can. 

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I have vision. 
You need to pay me because I can

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improve your life, right? 
OK, closing thoughts about this 

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is that I know that we all 
struggle with imposter syndrome 

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sometimes, especially when 
you're starting out or you've 

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been doing it for a little 
while, but then all of a sudden 

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you're slow, you know? 
And it's usually not because 

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you're not talented. 
It's really just not 

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communicating your expertise, 
your value, your impact for the 

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client. 
And then making sure that you're

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running the show too. 
Like if they hire you, you get 

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to be the decision maker for the
project, you get to be the 

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project manager, you get to 
direct that show, right? 

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You're the director for that 
show that you're putting on. 

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And also look into the science 
and design. 

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And when designers start talking
about design as psychology and 

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lifestyle transformation and 
human well-being, it's less 

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about the price of what you're 
charging. 

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It's more about the value that 
you're bringing to someone's 

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life. 
Right? 

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OK, so I'm going to stop there. 
But I think that's a really 

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important discussion to have. 
And I've struggled with at 

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different times throughout my 
career. 

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So I know that you're going to 
struggle with it too. 

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So, so maybe flag this episode 
to come back and listen to it 

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00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,400
the next time you're feeling 
that struggle and understand 

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that you actually do make a 
difference in your clients lives

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and they need you and charge 
well for it. 

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You got to make a living. 
OK? 

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I try not to get too much on my 
soapbox, but sometimes I get all

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worked up because I want you 
guys to really be able to make a

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living at what you do at cuz you
do it well and you work hard for

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your money, right? 
So you should get really get 

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rewarded for that. 
And I want you to value yourself

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too. 
Most of all self value 

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designers. 
Come on, you're worthy of all of

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that good praise and feedback 
and awards that you submit for 

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and all of that. 
So go out there and really start

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taking yourself seriously, do 
some research on the science and

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design and also just adjust your
mindset and take a take a look 

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to see where you're at. 
And I'm sure by adjusting all 

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these things that it will start 
to resonate with clients who 

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actually are going to value you 
for what you do and not just the

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shopping list that you can give 
them. 

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So take a look at that. 
And that's all I have for you 

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this week. 
Don't forget about my design 

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00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,680
mentor. 
If you're looking for someone on

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00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,000
one, work with me. 
I'd love to have you in my 

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00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:33,240
mentorship program, which is 
online, easy access. 

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00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,200
You can also schedule coaching 
calls with me through that. 

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All right, next week we'll have 
another great episode. 

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And until then, stay creative. 
Thanks for listening. 

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If you love this episode, please
leave a rating and a review. 

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00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,040
This helps me reach other 
curious creatives like you. 

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00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,160
If you have a topic request or 
would like to contact me, simply

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00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,120
head over to my website 
arworddesign.com or e-mail me at

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00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:01,840
podcast@arworddesign.com.