Hey there, it's Rebecca. Before we dive in today's
episode, I have something exciting to share.
If you've been dreaming about starting your own interior
design business, but you're feeling stuck on what to do
first, how to set things up legally, or even how to find
your first clients, this is your sign.
Doors are now open for my Launch Your Business Boot Camp, an 8
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You'll learn everything from clarifying your brand and
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confidence and direction. I'll be walking alongside you
the whole way, mentoring you through each step so you're
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And the best part? You'll be part of a community of
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So if you're ready to stop dreaming and finally launch your
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design.com. You'll also find the link in the
show notes. All right, let's get into
today's episode. You're now listening to Design
Curious, a place where you, creative one, are here to learn
about what it really is like to be an interior designer.
And I'm your host and mentor, Rebecca Ward.
If you're worried about how to succeed in a creative career, if
you're ready to learn your next steps to become an interior
designer, and if you want the satisfaction of doing something
you love every day, you are in the right place.
Grab a coffee, a notebook, and let's dig into today's episode.
Hello and welcome to episode 170 of Design Curious Podcast.
I'm your host and mentor, Rebecca Ward.
Today on the podcast, my guest pretty much doesn't need any
introduction. If you've been listening to any
design podcasts, you've probably come across hers before, but I
will tell you a little bit about her.
Today's guest is Luanne Negara. She is a business strategist,
speaker and host of two podcasts, Window Treatments for
Profit and A Well Designed Business, the leading podcast
for design professionals with nearly 9,000,000 downloads.
A seasoned entrepreneur with 40 plus years in the industry and
three successful businesses, Luanne helps creative
entrepreneurs lead with confidence, build systems that
Dr. profitability and finally get out of their own way.
Through Luanne University, she offers practical, high impact
courses taught by industry pros and for business owners ready
for deep transformation, her Chairman of the Board,
one-on-one Coaching provides the clarity and accountability
needed to lead at the highest level.
If you're not listening to her podcast already, you probably
want to. There's over 1000 episodes of
great information, great interviews, so it's definitely a
staple in the design podcast industry.
You're going to love our conversation with Luann.
She has so much to share. I really learned some new things
about her and you might as well too.
So let's get into our conversation with Luann.
And welcome to Design Curious Podcast.
It's so great to have you here today, Rebecca.
I'm so excited to be here. I really, really am looking
forward to today all weekend. Yeah, it's such an honor.
I was so pleased to come on your podcast and that you would
return the favor and come on to design curious.
So let's just dive in because I am curious.
You share a lot on your podcast about your path and everything,
but I'd love to hear it succinctly here, kind of like
how you started your business and how you got into the.
Interiors industry in the first place.
OK, So I have to clarify. Do you mean the first time I got
into the interiors industry in 1982, my friend?
Or do you mean in 2016 when I came out with the podcast?
82 is why all. Right, so I'm actually going to
give you a very short version. You will ask me if anything in
there you feel like you want to know more details on because you
know, it's a long time ago and I could, you know, I could talk
for an hour on just that. The bottom line nutshell of it
is, is that my husband's very best friend, his brother and two
of their other friends, those 4 gentlemen, not my husband, those
4 gentlemen started a franchise in Florida called Window Works
and it was custom window treatments and that was like in
197879 and then in 82 that was in Florida and they all lived in
Florida. My husband in December of 81
decided that he would open up one in New Jersey.
And in that summer I started working in that franchise
because I was between jobs and I had been dating him about six
months. And I was hissy about the job I
was in. And I said, this is the first
time I've ever had a job that wasn't in sales.
And this is a big mistake. I need to be in sales.
This is driving me crazy. I am bored out of my mind.
And he said, well, I started this little company if you want
to come work for me until you find something else.
And we're both like, huh, is that really a good idea?
Like we. Don't know working together.
So went to work for him and that's all she wrote.
Sister, that's it. I mean, there's a whole lot in
there, but. Yeah.
So you didn't know anything about window covering Zoney's
joint? No, no.
And, and of course, and I came from, you know, like many of us
do, like many of us, we're not our target client, right?
So many of the interior designers, Rebecca, that you and
I work with, it's like right, $550,000 furniture budget.
And by the way, that would never be me, right?
So I grew up in a house where we got our curtains out of a
package. Here's the 26 inch length.
Here's the 42 inch length. You know what I'm saying?
Yeah. And there was nothing custom
about anything that my mom and dad ever had in their home.
And so the word custom window treatment wasn't even in my
vocabulary. And then here I was a month
later selling them. And but The thing is, you know,
I could sell water to a fish. So it was sort of like whatever,
you know, we're done with this. OK.
So your your background is sales.
So how did you get started there?
Well, that's easy. My aunt started giving me books
when I was 10 years old. Yeah, one of the very first
books I read on sales, quote UN quote sales was The Greatest
Salesman in the World by Odd Mandino.
And it's actually a parable. It's a parable type book.
It walks through basically in a parable style, the 10 principles
of living an abundant life. And it's woven within the
context of a salesman because it's the salesman that walks
through the desert telling everybody this parable.
But the thing about it is, is that the 10 scrolls are, are a
way of life and a way of looking at life.
And it's, I will persist till I succeed Today I will multiply my
value by tenfold. I, you know, it's 10 different
scrolls, right? If I sat and let my brain be
quiet and probably could come up with all 10 of them.
But the idea is that that story, along with my mom and my aunt,
who my aunt was a Silva mind control method instructor.
Now they call it the Silva method because mind control
seems a little wackadoodle. But in the 70s it seemed
perfectly normal. And so they were teaching us
kids the Silva mind control method.
My aunt hands probably all of us the book, but I'm the one who's
like, oh, I like this book. And from there I am off to the
races with Wayne Dyer and Leo Buscaggia and Dale Carnegie and
Zig Ziglar. And I am just off to the races.
And I am constantly reading these books in the background of
my entire childhood. And I am just getting ingrained
in the thought that you are the master of your destiny.
You can create whatever you need.
And if what you need is to be a good salesperson, you have
everything you need to do that. And also the thing that I love
about this whole upbringing for me with sales is that it wasn't
until I was much older, in my mid and late teens, that I
started to hear the bias of the swarmy salesperson, the used car
salesperson. Because to me, my whole premise
for being a salesperson was you have great news that you want
someone else to know too. And that great news could be
this really wonderful book that you're enjoying.
That great news could be this product of the service that will
make their life for their business, or there's something
better. But it comes from that I've got
great news and I want you to have it too.
And so when you start to actually turn that in your mind
and you actually, that's a core belief you have now you can sell
water to a fish because fish, you don't want to run out of
water. Dude, what are you doing?
You need water. I got water.
So, so that's how you know, it becomes.
And it's not until I'm much later that I realized that there
is a negative connotation about salespeople.
Door to door salesperson, the Fuller Brush guy, you know, the
encyclopedia guy, you know, and but I was already too happily
involved in my positive persona about being the world's greatest
salesperson at that point. Yeah.
So continue on that line. Just to jump to how you coach
designers today, I would think the majority come to it thinking
that sales is the used car salesman approach, right?
Like everyone runs kicking and screaming from being a
salesperson when in fact it's such a huge part of our career.
Like we are selling all the time you take.
Money from somebody, You're selling something.
I'm sorry. Yeah, yeah, literally.
Yeah. And I would tell you, Rebecca,
when I first started my podcast in 2016, whenever the word sales
or selling would come up with the guest, I did get that knee
jerk reaction or the, the feeling of it like, oh, you
know, no, I, you know, I'm a designer.
I'm not a salesperson. I'm like, OK, sweetie, I'm not
going to burst your bubble. I'm not your mom.
I'm we're only having an hour conversation.
But over the years I did get more and more vocal about it and
more and more like, what are you doing?
Why are you framing this as a negative?
If you take a dollar bill from somebody, you are selling
something, period, end of discussion.
And if you flip the switch to the way I believe sales is, I've
got the best design in the world for you.
I'm the best person. I'm the best solution for you.
I'm going to be the steward of your money, of your hopes and
dreams for your home, your space.
Then where's the bad part? So I would tell you that over
the last three to four years, now all of a sudden I hear a lot
more, well, of course I'm a salesperson and a designer too.
And I'm like, yay, you all. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not claiming,
I'm not claiming responsibility for it in any shape or form.
I'm just noticing the trend is much more likely that someone
will be OK with that connotation now than they were 10 years ago.
10 years ago, 7 out of 10 designers be like, excuse me,
I'm not a salesperson. And now I think it's 3 out of 10
that would say, excuse me, I'm not a salesperson.
I would agree with that. Yeah.
So going back to your timeline, you applied your sales technique
to window works then when you started working with your
husband and so it lost and I'm sure over time until what?
Tell me how the progression went.
So we do that we turn it turns out that I'm good at it right
like so here's a couple of things that happen number one I
do bring now I'm only 20 years old when I start this 21 years
old when I'm about two months before my 21st birthday when I
start working at window works. So when we say all my sales
experience, it's 10 years to 11 years of reading about it at
that point. But every job I ever had, and I
had a lot of jobs by the time I was 21 years old, I always was
engaging the sales principles just instinctively.
It's like when you are reading at that level that many times,
that many things, it does just become part of the fabric of
your DNA, right? And so you add to that.
What I had no idea was that I was creative.
I didn't have the slightest idea I was creative because when I
went to the, I wouldn't even say, oh, back in the day when I
went to school, but the school I went to, the high school that I
went to, they had art class, but art class was specifically
drawing and painting. Like it wasn't creative
expression in whichever way that makes sense for you.
It wasn't, well, there's photography and there's
sculpture and there's this and that and the other thing.
It was drawing and painting. And so to me, I was like, well,
I can't draw. And I'm like, I'm not an artist,
I'm not a creative. And so I had no idea that I had
innate skill sets as a creative until I'm working in window
works. And now all of a sudden I'm able
to really just literally understand proportion and scale.
So I'm recommending balances and different things.
And people are saying, oh, it should be this long.
And I'm like, that's going to be too big, That's going to be too
deep, that's going to be too heavy or that's going to be too
skimpy. And the other thing that I found
right out the beginning was that I could hold color in my head,
which I had no idea. So I'd be at somebody's house
and I'd be looking at like, OK, this is because because there
was no cell phones to take pictures.
Then it's like you took a picture and you sent the film to
the photo mat, which I also worked at at one time in my
life. And then you waited two weeks
for it to come back. So you weren't like, I'll pick
your fabrics when I have the picture of your wall and your
fabric when I get back. You know what I mean?
So but what I could do was, and I didn't even know why I was
doing it. I'd be like, OK, I'll come back
in a couple days. I'll bring a bunch of fabrics.
And over and over again, I started to hear, my God, that's
the exact color. How did you know that was the
exact same shade of blue? And then I would have people
saying, my God, there's blue, there's green Blues, Gray Blues,
purple, Blues, red Blues. How did you?
And I'm just like, I don't know, this was hard.
I just, that was the color I saw in your house and I went back to
my showroom and got those colors of fabrics right.
And so it just happened that I discovered that I actually had a
lot of creative talent which had no idea was there.
And now they're just seamlessly, without even consciously
thinking about it, they're blending together and the one in
a talent is mixing with the learned talent of selling.
And that's when just get out of the way.
We're just going to blow doors off now.
Nice. Oh, I love that.
Hitting creative. And you never knew until you
started selling window coverings.
Yeah, that's it. Amazing.
OK, I love that. So you had a gift in selling
window coverings and then So what made you start your podcast
in 2016? So what happens is now we go
from 82 to say 2013, 2012, whatever it is, and I'm seeing
the end of the road. I'm like, I've been selling this
stuff for 100 years. I am getting bored of it, quite
frankly. I am also very cognizant of
that. Not only am I getting bored of
it, but I'm getting testy. I'm getting a little like, you
can't be saying that to your customers, Luann.
You can't be calling them out for saying stupid stuff.
You're supposed to have patience on that, you know?
And my husband who's 15 years older than me, so we were the 2
salespeople at that point for the business and he's 15 years
older than me. And he's also noticing that
where he was say 65 and I'm say 50 at this point, he's noticing
a disconnect. He's like, jeez, I used to walk
into a young couple, which we used to, you know, used to think
they were old and now we knew they were 3540, they were young.
And he's like, and I used to be able to relate to them.
And he said, but now I'm getting that little look like, wait, is
this old guy actually going to be the one to tell me what the
best awning is or the best window treatment is?
And he said, and it's not really, really a problem, but
I'm feeling it here and there. So he's feeling a disconnect in
connecting with the demographic that we sell to, which is 35 to
50. And I'm just frankly, like, I'm
seeing, I'm seeing the wall. And I don't know if the wall is
in two years or five years, but I know it's not 15 and I'm 50.
And I also know I'm not even going to retire at 65.
Who we kidding? And I'm just like, whoa, we need
Plan B. And so I start out on this
journey to figure out what can we do to create income because
there's no silver spoon. It's not like, hey, we'll just
close up shop and we'll just live a great life.
It's like, no, no, sweetie, we need to make some dollars.
And so I started to explore what could we do that didn't require
us to knock on a door and say hi, you know, like actually be
there. This is before COVID, way
before. But just like, how could we earn
a living that isn't dependent on us showing up to somebody's
house? And what would that look like?
And so I start at like say 50 years old to start 2012,
whatever it is, start like it's just on the back burner.
I'm like, what about that over there?
So I'm actively everyday showing up, doing what I'm doing.
But it's like, what's over there?
And I have a couple of ideas and I settle on a path and I'm like,
it's not really, I don't have a juice for it or that's not
really going to work out and nothing really gels.
And then 2015, I ended up being on somebody's podcast just as a
fluke. And I've said this many times on
multiple different podcasts. I just like hung up that call
and I was like, Oh yes. And I went, sweet Jesus, I need
one of those. That is it.
That is me. And I had been listening to
podcasts at that point since like 2006, 2007.
And it never occurred to me to have a podcast until I hung up
that call when I was being interviewed.
And I was just like, no, no, you have just been touched on the
head. That is what you need to do.
And so then I went about figuring out what it would be
because it was, it was happening.
It was just, was I talking about like making chicken soup or what
was I going to talk about? Because I was going to talk
about something. Yeah.
And so that was in the summer of
2015. And then I collated the idea,
formulated it, made the business plan for it, pitched it to my
husband in October, and then we launched it in February.
Great. Wow.
So you settled on well designed business.
Had you done any coaching or mentoring of other designers or
you know anyone before you started?
So not formally paid for. OK, so when Window Works was a
franchise, I was the number one salesperson in the entire system
every year that it was a franchise.
From the year I started selling for VIN, I went to #1 and it
never, I never lost it out of 120 some stores.
And so when we would have our annual conference, then it would
be like, how do you listen? What do you do that and what you
been about, right. So in an informal way, in
Windowworks I always worked with interior designers.
So I joined the business in 82. By 8384, I start the designer
program at Windowworks. I say to Vinny, you know what,
why do I want to find 10 new people every single week?
Why don't I find one new designer and get to 10 new jobs
every single month from that same designer?
And he was like, what do you mean?
And I told him he's like, great idea.
Now what I'm like now I go knocking on doors.
And that's what I did. It was Yellow Pages then and I
opened the Yellow Pages and started making calls and just
dialing for an appointment. And it was slow going.
But over the years now Window works has worked with probably
more than 300 interior designers over the years.
And any given time, I could walk over next door, probably 35
active orders from interior designers and built that to over
a million and a half million and three quarters revenue a year
just for interior designers. And so in that capacity, I often
was quote UN quote coaching designers because like Sandra
Funk, I appreciate her so much because she always says she
always calls me as one of her mentors.
Well, we never had a formal coaching thing.
But it was always, hey, Lou, before we leave, can I pick your
brain on this? Hey, Lou, what do you think
about that? This client said this and and
not that I never said the same thing to her.
What do you think about this? Right.
But it was more mostly the other way because I'm not much older
and it was about that topic. And so I found myself over the
years consistently when asked, sharing with designers the
business principles that we use to make window work successful.
Then it just became, oh, this is the crowd that needs the help.
You know what I mean? This is the crowd that doesn't
have really that resource of somebody who understands what
they do. And I believe there's a place
for outside coaching. It's just some consider me an
outside coach. I've heard people not use my
name, but say, well, if you're not actually a designer, can you
coach designers? I'm like, sweetie, have a seat.
Don't challenge me on this. Go have a seat and go away
because I've worked adjacent with them for 40 plus years.
And so I see the process. I see what you do.
I see when your client's face goes, are you kidding me?
I see when your client's face smiles.
I know what it is to be your vendor.
Where I'm like, we were just talking in a team meeting this
morning at Window Works. And then it said, look, I said,
how is this happening? She's and, you know, one of the
people in the team said, look, it's a new designer.
She doesn't have a process yet. I'm like, OK, fine.
And here it comes an e-mail at 9:00.
Oh, can I have a quote on Sally's room, you know, Roman
shade 945. Oh, and in Timmy's room, can I
have a quote on wood blinds? And then 11:30 oh, can you know
what? We're going to change the phone.
Like whoa, whoa. How about you collect your
thoughts, my love? Why don't you do this?
Why don't you make a list all day long of the things you need
from your trade? And then at the end of the day,
when you have collected all of your brain farts all day long,
do one e-mail. That's 16 emails asking me one
question and everyone, right? And so I've been the vendor who
I know that designer is not uncaring, that designer is not
trying to make it hard for her window treatment person to
retrieve the actual information that's necessary when she
ultimately places an order because it's in 16,000 emails
and different threads. She just doesn't know better.
She just doesn't know a better path.
So yeah, I not been a dentier designer, but yeah, I can help
you run a cleaner business for sure.
And yeah, I mean, you're creative and you did design like
you designed window coverings, so it's sure it's all in there.
It's like, you know, it's all the same thing.
So definitely qualify. Oh my goodness.
So you have over 1000 episodes now, so many, and you've
interviewed and talked to so many designers.
Are is there? Anything as you reflect back
over the years that seems to be a through line or something
that's constantly coming up as you talk to these designers that
maybe you didn't realize about the industry getting into it or
surprised you or is like an aha mindset shift that people need
to make that there's. Actually a couple things as you
just frame that question, a couple things went through my
mind. The first thing that goes
through my mind that it does surprise me and it continues to
surprise me, is that most interior designers underestimate
the insane value that they bring to a homeowner.
Whatever level of client it is, residential, boutique,
commercial, full commercial, hospitality, whatever it is,
there is a tendency because they're so passionately attached
to it and because they love doing it so much that there is a
tendency to undervalue its need by the other person on the other
side. And what happens from that is
that is the route of not pricing properly.
And then the other thing that comes to my mind is there is
often a knee jerk reaction to the client is asking too much,
not appreciating, not valuating. How could they do that if they
really understood what I did? And when my thing is this, you
know what? Take that thing and wrap it all
the way around back to the first thing I just said.
Because when you know your value, and I know this from all
the designers I coach and my chairman of the board program,
it's like I'm just like, you know, no is a complete answer.
You can say no. You can say, yeah, it's not
going to happen that way. And what happens is often when a
consumer will push you back. So I've had this has happened
1/2 a dozen times in one-on-one coaching.
Oh, the client, I don't not sure what to do.
Everything's been going so well. We've been getting along and the
project's been going well and things are fine.
And now they just ask me to blah, blah, blah.
And the designer will say to me, and it's in my contract that
they can't and do it. And, and this is what I thought
I'd do. I thought I would copy and paste
the section of my contract and I would just reply and I would
say, hey, really can't do that if you remember the contract.
And I'm like, how about you just say no?
How about you just say, Hey, my business model doesn't allow for
that. However, what I think what you
want to achieve is XYZ and this is the way we could do it.
And 99% of the time the client goes, oh, OK, that's fine.
Like it's not an affront. It's most of the time it is
simply just a question. Hey, I thought I would, you
know, I, I was at Pottery Barn this weekend and I wanted to,
yeah, that's not going to work because I've already laid out
the entire room. And yeah, you can save $300 by
getting that, you know, particular sofa at Pottery and
but you're going to end up spending another 7 or $800.00
for me to redesign around it. So I don't know what to tell
you. That's kind of why I say from
the beginning, don't go shopping because it's not going to end
good. But like the idea is just say
it. Just say it.
I if I had a nickel for every one of my coaching clients that
were like, and I'll be like, and this is a phone call, not an
e-mail. And they call me back and they
boxed me back and they're like, Oh my God, alls I did was say it
doesn't work that day. And they were like, OK, no
problem. But you send an e-mail, all
posturing, well, I just want to refer back to my contract
because in there, this and that and the other thing, you know,
you literally just set the person off.
And it's kind of like, you know, if you're at a restaurant and
you're like, can I have more wine?
And they're like, yeah, it's another 10 bucks or another 20
bucks, OK. You know, OK, I didn't ask you
to read the menu again. I know what I'm asking for.
Just bring it. I'm willing to Bay, you know,
and that's a mistake. And that also is rooted in not
fully understanding what you're bringing to the table.
Because if you think that 50% of the questions coming at you are
coming at your quote, UN quote authority, then you're not
sitting in your authority because you can ask 100
questions of me that come at my authority.
And I'm like, look, sweetie, I'm what you want from me.
This is how I run my stuff. You want to be in this lane with
me. Let's go.
If you don't free country, move on.
But I'm not debating whether I'm changing my process for you.
I'm not debating if I should. I'm not losing sleep over
because I decided not to. It's your prerogative.
We're either going to run down this road together or you go a
different road and you find a different business coach or a
different podcast to listen to or a different person to get
your window treatments. I know, listen, sleep over it
because I'm OK with who I am and what I deliver to you.
You know what I'm saying? We just had a situation because
I teach sales at Exciting Windows, my other company that
my husband and I own together. And that's a company where we
mentor and we teach and we coach window treatment professionals
to be profitable. And one of the women in that
group, she voxard me and she said I went on the sales
appointment, the whole thing was set up good.
Everything was done right get there, do all the samples, pick
all the things. And now at the end of it, the
guy ready it's time to give a check it's time to go give me a
credit card. We're ready to go and it's a
$30,000 order And the guy said, oh, and what about my designer
discount? And she's smart.
This kid's smart. She had the you know, the, the
presence of mind to say, well, where's your designer?
And he's like, well, what's the difference?
I mean, the designer's not here and she's like just give a
designer discount when the designer is in here, right?
And she pushed him back couple times and he just kept coming at
her and she boxing me when she was leaving, it was an hour and
a half ride home. And she's like, I finally I just
walked out and I told him that I'm not going to do the order.
And she said, and I'm not sure if I should have.
And I was like, yes, you shut up.
High five. Yeah.
You you know, because it was just like, The thing is, you
have to know, it's like, what's the Kenny Rogers song?
Know when to hold him and know when to fold This.
Yeah, the Facebook groups for designers would have you believe
that you always should walk away.
You should not always walk away, but when you should, you need
to. And she did.
And that was a Friday. And on Monday he called her and
said, we'll place the order, right.
And there's a lot of details in back story to the nuance and the
wording that went into it. And that is the art of the sale.
It's how to say it, what to say it.
And she told me her conversation.
I said, I'm 100% with everything you said.
What exact thing would have come out of my mouth?
There's one thing that you missed.
Keep it in your back pocket for next time.
And so it was fine. And she did.
But he ended up coming back. And that was because she
understood inherently. And what I said to her also was
I said this is not an insignificant thing.
This is a New York City apartment for a person that does
not live in New York City. Same hour and a half for him to
get there, I said. So do not underestimate that.
He already found the window treatment company.
He already liked you. He already had you out there.
Wasted all his own time to go out.
You guys did all the measurements.
You and him did all of the selections.
He doesn't really want to do this again to save $3000.
I promise you Not where his primary residence is and where
his Pieter is. This man is not as concerned
with the $3000. And it's a lot of money, $3000 a
lot of money to me he but it's like $300.00 for him.
That's kind of a lot of money. But now I'm not going to lose
sleep over it money. And so he just was pushing her
back and that's where you got to know and that is the sales
training. But it is also in running
through that, like in that moment, I would run through,
well, what is he giving up by getting to this point?
And what does he gain versus lose by caving to my side or
sticking to his guns? And I would have made the same
educated guess that the $3000 that he was looking for was not
worth doing this all over again and finding a new window
treatment company. And so a designer needs to sit
in that space. They picked me two weeks, two
months, two years ago, whenever the engagement started.
This person probably interviewed multiple designers, looked at
even more websites, asked questions, looked at reviews,
and ultimately selected you. You were important, you matter,
you have value with respect. Just make sure that that is
observed both you and them, because it's usually the
designer that gives up their own respect.
And now the consumer will just start to run Ramshaw.
And it's not because they're bad people.
It's no different than a 2 year old.
If you tell a 2 year old it's time for bed 16 times, do you
expect them to go to bed the first time you say it the next
night? Like, no, you've actually taught
the two year old mom's going to say it about 16 times before she
really loses her. You know what?
And then she means it. It's so different with
consumers. You know, they're not bad.
It's natural human behavior, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, a lot of designers don't stand in that confidence of that
they do have value that the people did select them.
Like they should have confidence already and have that and stand
in that power and being able to say no because it's the best
thing for the client, right. Years old again like you know
that they shouldn't touch something to.
Sleep, Tommy, you need this piece in here, Susie, this full
design or you need this contractor, you need this
electrician. This is why I this is my
experience. I have done this before.
You want to bring in somebody who's not proven, OK, but here's
what we risk, and I'm not going to be part of that.
Now. Don't call me when Harry the
electrician doesn't know where something goes because I didn't
hire Harry. Like whatever the situation is,
you know? Yeah.
So you're known for Italian designers to charge what they're
worth, right? And so it's like, understand, I
think there's correlation between the more you charge, the
more confident you gain or confidence.
You gain, the clients get too. And the better your clients get.
So there's there's nothing to lose by increasing your pricing
which is probably already under surprised anyway to build that
confidence. You have to have the core
foundation though, right? Like you have to have a
documented process that you follow so that you can give her
give the same results with the best expectation of being able
to do that. Except for the fact that humans
are involved and anything always go wrong.
But when you have a documented process and you follow it, now
you know you got the referral from Susie, you're going to do
the same good job for Sally and boom, charge for it.
But when a designer is doing it every which way and waking up at
2:00 in the morning and did I tell the wallpaper hanger which
way the paper goes, that's when honestly, you don't stand and
charge what you're worth because there's a little part of you
that's like, this thing is chaos over here.
Like I'm hoping this is going to turn out good.
You know, not design wise, but process wise, right?
100% yeah. Processes are your best friend.
That's right. That's right.
I've never. Met a designer, Rebecca, that
has, whether they've been in business six months or six years
or 16 years, I've never met a designer that ultimately
committed to really documenting their work journey, the internal
on the backside and the external facing the consumer that did not
raise their price. And also along with that,
stopped under billing and stopped under charging because
now they're like, oh heck, that's the 95 million things
that I do because that's where it's so enjoyable and it's so
pleasurable for a designer and it feels like not a big deal.
I always think about like, was it Michael Jordan?
I always get the damn sports guys different.
But like, he left basketball and then went to play baseball.
Oh yeah, he did. Right.
He's Michael Jordan. He's like one of the best
athletes I've ever walked the planet.
But he really wasn't as good at baseball as he was basketball.
Now he's better than, you know, like a billion other humans on
the planet on baseball, right? But it's like basketball is
where he just gets on the court. He does his thing, but he knows
he does because why? Because he's taken 45,000 foul
shots during practice. And so that's why when he's on
the court, he's just like, give me the ball.
And that's the thing with a designer.
A designer often doesn't realize how much is gone into their
ability to put the together a room like that, their ability to
know which rug, which lamp, which this because it's their
innate talent and they've coned it and they've enjoyed it in
their free time. They take batting practice and
they take foul shots. They go to shows for design and
they read books on design and they read podcasts, listen to
podcasts and they, you know, read magazines.
So they often will miss value, misjudge what goes into that 5
second decision of that countertop or that countertop.
It's like, that's not easy for all the rest of the humans.
That's easy for you because you're good at it.
You have a talent at it, not because it's easy.
And a designer should never forget that.
I've said it. You could not pay me to be a
designer. You could not.
There's not enough salary. You could tell me.
I'm going to give you $1,000,000 a year net cash.
I'd be like, yeah, no, I'll, I'll work my ass off over here
doing this. Thank you.
Yeah, well, I like that. In business?
Yeah, and I like that point. You said that once a designer
can document their processes on both sides.
And if you have a book of your SO PS, it's going to be a big
fat book. And you're like, OK, This is why
I need to make sure I'm capturing all of that time.
And This is why I have to charge what I'm charging because you
can't hand that book to the client.
I mean they're going to never get their projects like without.
You they're just going to pick a sofa off the Internet and pick a
paint color in the aisle of the box store.
And you know what, 50% of them will put together a decent room.
The other 50% you'd walk into the house and go, what kind of a
hot mess is this place? Right?
It's like, but you know what I mean, like and that's fine.
A lot of people live without elevated design.
It's perfectly fine. They can go about their world.
But when someone says I want a designer because I want it to be
elevated, understand that's not easy and you can do it, so
you've got to charge for it. Yeah, Amen, sister.
OK. So I think that we should share
about how people can work with you directly, the programs that
you have because you have so much wisdom and insight and
passion to share with our listeners.
So why don't you talk a little about what's what's available?
OK, so easy, easy, easy. Is the podcast a well Designed
business? Obviously free listen to it.
You can get your undergrad in business for interior design by
listening to the podcast. I also have the podcast Window
Treatments for Profit. If you happen to lead with
window treatments or sell window treatments as a designer, it's
very also very helpful to give you insights into that end of
the industry. And by the way, if you're an
interior designer and you're not selling window treatments,
you're leaving 10s of thousands of dollars off the table,
believe me. So that's easy.
I have my three books on Amazon also easy, low barrier.
And then when you get beyond that, then you have Luanne
University where we have various instructors teaching all of the
disciplines in the business side of design.
So we're not going to teach you to do CAD, We're not going to
teach you to pick a sofa, but we're going to teach you your
bookkeeping. We're going to teach you how to
document your processes. We're going to teach you the
fundamentals of marketing. It's the five pillars of
business. It's finance, sales, marketing,
operations and leadership. And so that's where you come to
get one-on-one live instruction, not one-on-one, but one to a
group. So it's taught live twice a
year. So the next we're going out at
the end of December. We will open the cart probably
in the end of January for the March semester of Ludvan
University. And then the next, the top level
is my chairman of the board coaching program.
And I only take 5 a year. And we work together, me and
you, alone the whole year. It's no other people in it, no
other groups. So because what your problem is
is different than somebody else's problem, right?
You might have your processes down, but you don't have to
manage your team. Or you might have your team, but
you know. Don't have your processes or you
don't know how to make money. You don't know.
And I only take 5 a year. And interestingly, as of this
recording, I have one spot left for 2026.
It may be gone by the time this gets aired, but it might not be.
And I'm trying to think. And then I have a new company, a
new business coming out in February called the Boardroom
for Creatives that is going to be a highly curated, vetted
resource for creative business owners, interior designers,
window treatment professionals, even photographers, web
developers for getting 50 minutes of expert advice.
Like you want to come in, you want to come out, you want to
get the thing figured out, You want a strategy session.
You need to bust through some mindset thinking that you're
going through or you just like, is this a good idea or is this
the dumbest thing I've ever heard of?
And we'll have my cadre of proven business experts on it,
the people that are the co-authors in my books, the
people that are my Luann University instructors.
We're even going to have people like Amber Guyton on it and
Megan Moulton. So you know, there's a lot of
designers that reach out to these types of designers and
leaders in our industry. Like how did you build your
e-commerce site? Well, these women can almost you
know, they can only so much give back freely and they both these
are two of the several influencer type, that level of
person in our industry, but they still want to help.
And this will just make it easy for the average designer who's
never met, say, Amber Gait and say, how did you start your
blessed little bungalow bog and how did it get so popular and
blah, blah, blah. And so that boardroom for
creatives.com will be coming out in January, so.
Great, that's exciting. Wonderful.
Well, Luann, it's been such a pleasure to talk with you and
learn your story and I'm going to read that book I think that
you recommended from the beginning about sales because
you can always improve your mindset around selling, right?
And I like what you had to say about that, so I'm going to
check that out. Is there anything just last
minute remarks you want to say to an up and coming designer who
might be feeling stuck or first small step they can take?
A little action advice for them to just get going in their
career? I think you got to remember, and
I've said it on my show often enough, that there's the work
that you do, that's your employee work, and there's the
work that you do as the business owner, as the CEO.
There are two different lanes and maybe you get to the point
where like many businesses do, where you are the CEO and you
don't do employee work anymore. But that is the smallest
percentage of U.S. business owners that really get to that
level or aspire. I don't mean to say get to it
like, oh, you can't get to it, but aspire to that level.
One of the things I know a lot of designers say to me, I want
to build my team, but I don't want to build myself out of
designing, right? That's the thing I love to do.
But always be clear, there's employee work and CEO work and
the employee work is it's, you know, getting the contracts done
and it's, you know, blah, blah, blah.
But the CEO work is, is the contract well written?
The CEO work is what is my brand messaging.
The CEO work is what is my pricing when I prices projects,
am I doing the project autopsy when it's done to evaluate?
Are these kinds of projects profitable for me or am I just
on a hamster wheel closing them, doing them, executing them,
finishing them and never evaluating if this is a project
that I should even be doing? As you are in your career, if
you in it many years and you don't do this, do it.
But if you're in your beginning of your career, just understand,
don't get caught up in the weeds of doing the business, that you
forget to set up the business for sustained success and that
you have built in the time each month to step out and look at
what's happening. It's kind of like, if you think
about like a coach of a basketball team, the guy's not
in in every play. He's not on the play, you know
what I mean? He's watching all the plays.
And then when the game is over and in practice, like, hey, you
2 knuckleheads, every time we ran that play, you ran left and
you ran light and you're both supposed to go the same way.
So it's like who's watching what the business is doing?
So the business can consistently be recalibrated to do better the
next time. And that is a critical thing in
starting a sustainable business. Very good advice.
I love that. Well, thank you, Luann, and I'm
sure we'll talk with you soon. Everybody needs to check out her
podcast for sure. It's just an industry standard
and we'll put all the links to everything that you talked about
in the show notes so people can find it easily.
But thank you so much for coming on today, Luann.
It's. Been.
Thank you, Rebecca. I appreciate you very much.
Thank you. So if you'd like to get more of
Luann's great knowledge and information, go ahead and check
out the links in our show notes for all the things that she
offers and subscribe to our podcast because I'm sure you'll
get a lot more information from her there.
I had the privilege to be on her podcast recently on episode
1139, came out a couple months ago.
And so you can go back and listen to that if you wanted to
hear my story with her. But it's just a pleasure having
Luann on the podcast today. I hope you enjoyed it.
I hope that you're enjoying your holiday season as we prepare for
the end of the year. And of course, boot camp is
going to be starting in January. The doors are open.
I'd love for you to get in there right now.
Don't delay because there's some work that you're going to want
to do before we meet that first week in January.
And if you have any downtime at all, you can just go around in
my design Mentor and. Look at all the other things
that you have access to for the next year.
So take a look at that. I'd love to see you in there
come January. That's all I have for you this
week. Next week we'll have another
great episode to close out the year, and until then, stay
creative. Thanks for listening.
If you love this episode, please leave a rating and a review.
This helps me reach other curious creatives like you.
If you have a topic request or would like to contact me, simply
head over to my website ourawarddesign.com or e-mail me
at podcast@ourawarddesign.com.