I was building this in a bubble and I wish someone had told me
if you go and talk to this person, you will skip five years
of pain. If you go set up.
If you do, you even know what a process and system is.
No, I didn't. I didn't know.
I knew those words were English, but I was like, I had no clue.
What does that even relate to? A business?
Had no clue period of life. That's also kind of expensive
because guess what? Guesswork is expensive shooting
from the hip and you're like, I don't know, do I mark up 10
percent, 20%? No, guys, we need more.
We need people to tell us to charge more.
You're now listening to Design Curious, a place where you,
Creative one, are here to learn about what it really is like to
be an interior designer. And I'm your host and mentor,
Rebecca Ward. If you're worried about how to
succeed in a creative career, if you're ready to learn your next
steps to become an interior designer, and if you want the
satisfaction of doing something you love every day, you are in
the right place. Grab a coffee, a notebook and
let's dig into today's episode. Hello and welcome to episode 184
of Design Curious podcast. Today on the podcast, I have the
privilege of interviewing Sonia Barney.
She is an award-winning interior designer, business educator, and
founder of Kyvari, a platform built to support interior
designers with the right coaches, resources, and
community at the right stage of business.
With over 20 years of an interior design industry and
more than a decade as the owner of Sonja Barney Design, Sonja
has seen a consistent pattern emerge.
Many creators build beautiful work but struggle with the
business side that sustains it. Through her own experience
working with multiple coaches at different stages, she realized
that business support isn't 1 size fit all.
Growth requires personalized support, aligned expertise, and
the right timing. That insight led to the creation
of Kyvari, the first platform designed to thoughtfully connect
designers with coaches, peers, and vetted business resources
based on what they need right now, their personalities, and
their goals. Sonia also teaches business
strategy for designers through Luan University.
Known for her analytical systems drive approach, Sonia brings
clarity, structure and momentum to everything she builds,
whether it's designing a home or building a business.
I have gotten to know Sonia quite a bit over the last couple
years as she's built this KIVARI coaching platform of which I am
now a part of. And so it's been great to see
her build that. So let's get into our
conversation and hear all about it.
Hi Sonia, welcome to design Curious podcast.
It's great to have you on today. Thanks for.
Having me, Rebecca, I'm really excited to be here.
Me too. We've had a connection for a
couple years now. We got put together, I think a
mutual designer and I think you guys both worked with Luann
Naguera, yes. Yeah, it's Yvonne.
We meet every month. She's one of my wonderful design
buddies that we connect even if we live in different parts of
the country. We connect every month.
And she was saying how you had built a local design group and I
was like, I need advice on that because I want to do that too.
Yeah, yeah, Yvonne's great. She's also been on the podcast,
so how fun. She's incredible.
Yeah, so. I am happy to have you on today
we get to find out your story and I know you've been in
interior design industry over 20 years plus I don't know how
long. So why don't you tell me how you
got started? Like a lot of designers out
there, I went to school for it and been in the industry for 20
years. I eventually set out on my own
about 10 years ago, started my own business and like a lot of
designers thought, hey, it will be so easy if I just run it out
of my house and I'm my own boss and have my own hours.
Yeah, my hours were sent around having kids, so it was between
drop off and pick up every day. It was still somewhat part time
and I was not really necessarily approaching it as like a true
business owner. I was just kind of ad hoc and
you know, I'm, I'm a designer, I know what I'm doing.
So I just really approached it loosely and went with the flow.
And it was probably about five years in that I was finally to
the point where it was a full time job and I was super, super
busy with all of this work coming in.
And I was like, Oh my goodness, I'm drowning.
I do not know what I'm doing. Why had I not learned how to run
the business? How did I get where I am?
I'm still guessing on how to contract each project.
I'm still guessing on how much to mark things up.
And I had naively just assumed the hardest part was the design
and I could just wing the business side.
Yeah. No, no, there was.
I did wing it, but it wasn't successfully winged.
So after lots of trial and error and guesswork throughout those
years, I was not really paying myself and it was showing that I
was working my tail off and not make any money.
I'm like, there's got to be a better way.
So it was about five years ago that I was like, you know what,
I need to invest in myself and invest in my business.
And that was a big turning point.
I say we me. I finally hired coaches and
listened to more podcasts and went to industry events and
hired A-Team and grew this because I couldn't do it alone
anymore. And it's been such an amazing
journey going through that and really finding out at the end
that I really enjoy the business side sometimes more than the
design side, even though I still love design.
Like I really enjoy the business and since then have been
enjoying teaching design through Luan University, not teaching
design, but design business skills and then building this
other platform called Kaivari that is also geared to helping
people grow their business. Yeah, gosh.
So I had similar beginnings as I'm sure I've told you before,
but how many designers are out there doing the same thing like
weaning the business part of it because we both did it like I
know there's other people like that like.
And, and we, I still talk to people that are like, I've never
hired a coach. Why is this?
There's supports out there. There's there's other people,
there's connections. And I'm like, yeah, we all just
kind of build in our own little bubbles and figure it out and
think we'll just like Band-Aid it together and that's good
enough. And it is to a point, but
there's such a better way. There's a more profitable way,
there's a there's less stress. Like how many designers do we
know that are overworked and underpaid?
Almost all of them. And it's because we're still, we
know the design, we don't necessarily know the business
side. And that's where the profits
come in. Yeah, yeah.
And unlike you, I also started to enjoy the business side of
it. Like once I did get coaching and
get systems and like, oh, I can actually make money and this is
rewarding and the client is happy now because I have a
process that I'm following. And that was just a very
pleasing part of the design process for me was like the
actual business part going into it.
So, so, yeah, I think that there's going to be a lot of
people like us out there who started just wanting to do
design, design, design, but it's actually the business that is
the important part. It is.
I mean, if you don't have it together, you're not going to
have a successful project for your clients.
And in the end, we want them to be taken care of and for them to
trust us and give us money. And if it's just a hot mess
behind the scenes, it will show. Yeah.
So you talked a little bit about, you know, your your path
was definitely changed by the coaches that you started to hire
and work with. Did you find that you needed
different people at different points or like was there several
coaches that you worked with over the years?
Yes. And so, yeah, there's so many
out there. I've worked with coaches that
are foundational, like ones that kind of get you back to like
business foundations, what you need to have implemented into
your business to actually run it successfully.
And I've got ones that are specifically on speaking or
sales or bookkeeping or whatever it is.
There's all sorts of different types of coaches and I've worked
with quite a few over the years, some for like over a year and
some for like a month. You know, like there's just so
many different types that you can hire.
My first coach was actually through the small business
center, which a lot of designers kind of forget.
And even as a like a, a first time entrepreneur, I was like, I
didn't even know this existed. What great supports we have
within our communities that you can get that business knowledge.
I will say that was not necessarily that got me some
support, but they don't always know the interior design
industry. It, it really does help to work
with people who understand our deceptively complex business.
They just didn't realize that it's more than pillows and
window treatments. Shocking.
There's more to it than that. And working with people, they're
a little bit more specialized and it's a deep pool out there.
Just so everybody knows, there's a lot of great experts that you
can talk to, but working with the ones who understand our
industry is imperative. Yeah, for sure.
So you mentioned you teach on Luan University.
How did you go from being coached to starting to coach
others? Oh my goodness.
That was a journey. I went to one of Luann's events,
Power Talk Friday, and that's where I've met other great
coaches and great designer friends like Yvonne.
It was at that event that I even, I just was telling Luann I
was like, you know, I prefer implementation, I prefer the
systems. I love my spreadsheets,
everybody. I'm a giant nerd, I will admit
it. And she was like, you are
slightly different than some of the designers out there because
not all designers like that part.
And so we just continued talking and having conversations.
And she eventually was like, maybe teaching for Luanne
University would be a great way to utilize that side of your
brain. And I loved it.
Right now I get to teach two classes through that.
And it's just a great way to spread my love of nerding out
over data and spreadsheets and helping people break it down
into a really wonderful way to incorporate into their business
that isn't overwhelming. Because, I mean, unfortunately,
when we're starting our businesses, we still do have to
wear a lot of hats. We can't just say, oh, I'll just
hire A10 team to handle all this.
Now. You still have to, at the
beginning kind of figure out how to do it yourself.
Once you go to a point, you can hand that off to someone else to
manage. But let's build in some easy
ways to track your data and make sure that you're staying
profitable and you're not losing information.
Yeah, for sure. What does your design business
look like today? Do you have employees?
Do you, you know, working that full time?
I know you're doing some coaching on the side, but that's
still your full time gig. It is.
I'm still in my basement. Everybody.
I'm I've got a small team with hiring that's been a little bit
of a roller coaster because finding the right people.
I don't live in a big market city.
I don't have a ton of people here.
There's great talent, but some of the talent, they own their
own businesses. So finding the right teammates
has been a challenge. Right now I have one amazing
assistant and she, I, I don't want her to ever leave.
And I had an admin, she retired. So I'm kind of like back to
wearing the admin hat. But it is a small team.
We are still full time with that and then with Luann University
and Kyvari I am doing extra and getting to do lots of extra
work. But this is what I love.
This is why I built a business when my kids were little is I'm
a better mom when I'm busy and I've got structure in my day and
I have a reason to wake up every day.
And this is what keeps me happy is by putting all of this into
my life. Yeah, and I think that's good to
say too, that you've been able to achieve that balance that
like each side of being a mom and having your business and
being a coach, Like it feeds you, gives you some full circle,
like a well-rounded approach to life, right, 'cause it's like
you're feeding all the areas. And it doesn't mean that the way
I'm doing it is the same for everybody else.
There are some people who their version of balance looks
different than mine and where I was 10 years ago when I opened
my business and my boys were little.
Now they're in high school, they don't need me as much.
They're dragging I I do have more available hours in my day,
but that season 10 years ago, I didn't.
So part time was what I could fit in and what was perfect at
that time. And I think the hardest part,
not to go off on a tangent, but is that we get this comparison
mode of like, well, look at that person.
They have this incredible business and they're doing so
much and I'm like, it didn't start up that way.
And their version of balance looks different than yours and
there can still be success in all different ways that you
slice that that business into your life.
Yeah, for sure. I think that's good to keep in
mind. We all want different things,
you know, out of life and different passions.
And so someone recently was talking to me about that too.
Like how, how are you doing so many things?
You know, I have the mentorship. I have my podcast.
I told you just now that you learned that I have an acoustic
deal with my husband. We go singing at wine bars,
doing covers and stuff, you know, once a month, once or
twice a month. But I could not do that 10 years
ago because of my children, right?
So they're older now, 10 and 12, and they don't need me as much.
So that's like, and it takes less of my brain power.
And you know, I just was so tired all the time 10 years ago.
So I couldn't have done this then.
So it is. It's going to look different in
different phases of your life. Things will come and go and
you'll start and stop different things.
So Speaking of, when we spoke a couple years ago, you know about
having that social like designer support group locally for which
I also run monthly here in Sacramento, but that's what you
were looking into. And then we reconnected after a
little while and you had started this Kyvari platform.
So why don't you tell me about how that transitioned for you
and like why you started wanted to look at starting the coaching
like matchmaker program for for designers.
Yes, like for those who don't know, Kyvari is a online
platform specifically for interior designers to connect
them with a great support network with the right coach if
you need a coach, with resource partners, if you need people to
take hours and tasks off your plate and with peers so that you
can have somebody else to talk to and understand what you're
going through. There's so much benefit to
having all of those supports in your life.
And really the seed that germinated was when I was
feeling like what I was doing in in my business was wonderful and
I love it. But I felt like I wanted more.
I wanted to connect with people outside and do something that
was more about interior design business.
And as much as I enjoy mentoring and teaching for Luan
University, I didn't really want to go down the coaching avenue.
I enjoy the data, I enjoy understanding.
And I went back to like, what would I have wanted when I
started my business. And I keep thinking back to that
main pain point of I didn't know what I didn't know.
I was building this in a bubble and I wish someone had told me
if you go and talk to this person, you will skip five years
of pain. If you go set up, if you do you
even know what a processing system is?
No, I didn't. I didn't know.
I knew those words were English, but I was like, I had no clue.
What does that even relate to a business?
Had no clue. If someone had just said this is
a way to speed up your profitability and speed up all
of the pain that you're about to endure, I would say sign me up.
And so I was like, OK, I want a quicker way for designers to
find the right people that are going to help them in their
business so we can stop this frustrating trial and error
period of life that's also kind of expensive because guess what?
Guesswork is expensive. Shooting from the hip figure
you're like, I don't know, do I mark up 10 percent, 20%?
No, guys, we need more. We need people to tell us to
charge more and that it's OK to do that.
And it's industry standard. So we need people that give us
tools. They've already figured out how
to run a successful business. They have these wonderful
templates. They have processes that make
sense, that work, that are proven.
If you can go tap into those, you don't have to do this
winging it period anymore. So again, it was going back to,
well, then who do you hire? Like if I can get to the point
where I can convince people that they need support, then the
question is, who do they hire? And I don't know if you've seen
this, Rebecca, but since COVID, there has been such an uptick of
coaches available. This virtual world of support
has exploded and it's wonderful, but also it makes it a very deep
pool of potential experts to hire.
And you're like, who do I go to? From my experience, as I said,
I've worked with a lot of different coaches.
All of them have helped, but some have helped more.
And it was the people I connected with beyond just kind
of filling some gaps. It was the people who I
connected with on our personality, how they were
teaching, how they were delivering the information in a
way that I needed at that time. There are some coaches that if
they didn't understand my industry, then we were wasting
time trying to explain it. If I was working with somebody
where I didn't feel like we were on the same wavelength
personality wise, it was frustrating and I don't want
that for people. And there is this.
There are mistakes that people make when hiring coaches.
I've talked with some designers who spent 10, twenty, $30,000 on
a coach to then find out it was a glorified group coaching and
they thought they were getting one-on-one.
They'd already invested that money they were already in and
they didn't like the format. They weren't pleased with it.
Did they get something out of it?
Yes, because it was still a great coach.
It just wasn't the program they thought they were signing up
for. And there's nothing more
frustrating than investing a lot of money into something that you
aren't happy with the results and aren't seeing the needle
moving your business. If you're at a point where
you're like, I can't do group coaching or modules anymore and
I need a one-on-one, then you have to go find the one-on-one.
You can't just choose the one who someone says, hey, they're
great, you should go for it. No, you need to do the deeper
dive and understand who you need to hire.
Yeah. Yeah, sorry, long, long tangent
on how I got here of how to say I know there's a pain out there
and I'm built Kyvari to fix that pain, to speed it up.
OK, that's great. So you are now then contacting
different coaches or you are probably reaching out and 1st to
people that you have worked with or you know personally to come
onto the platform, interviewing them, seeing if it's a good fit.
How do you envision it? 'Cause there are so many coaches
out there, like how many do you want on the platform and where
are you going with this? I'm, I'm so curious.
Yeah. As you can probably tell,
Rebecca is one of our coaches on the platform and she actually
fits a really great niche of the new designers, ones that are
brand new, either coming right out of school or transitioning.
Not a lot of coaches fit that demographic.
So we love having Rebecca on there.
But as far as the platform itself, we want as many coaches
as we can. I will put on 100,000 whomever
if we feel that they are the right fit for one.
Understanding our industry, understanding creative
entrepreneurs. You don't necessarily have to be
an interior design specific coach, but you have to
understand the creative mindset for that a lot of the designers
have. You also have to have
experience. We don't want someone who
yesterday rose their hand and said I'm a coach now.
No, I want to see proven experience that you have worked
with a lot of designers because again, my job with the
matchmaking is to help people feel comfortable that I'm
aligning them with the right fit and that this person is truly
skilled as a coach. They could be a fantastic
interior designer, but until there's proven that they know
how to also teach and deliver that to other people, that's
what I want to see. And I want you to feel
comfortable that the coaches on here are the experts that we
weeded out. The ones who are, I wouldn't say
people are doing anything nefarious, but there are people
out there that could potentially scam you and that's not what we
want. We want to get rid of all of
that. So you'd feel super confident.
These are the top ones and then from the top ones, then we
connect you with all the other things, whatever gaps you have
in your business, how you like to learn, what your personality
is, what type of coaching platform is better for you,
coaching style and what's your budget, what time do you have
available? Those are a lot of different
things that make an ideal fit and make it so that you're
investing your money wisely. Since I've been going through
the beta with you, I can tell that you definitely come from
data-driven background and love for that because there's been
all sorts of quizzes and questionnaires that we fill out
to kind of identify what kind of coach are you?
And then I know the same as on the other side for designers.
And so, so I think that's just going to be so useful for you to
find a good fit or like it might change, you know, at different
points in, in a designer's career, like, OK, now I need to
focus on my finances. So you might have a financial
coach who can come and step in that space.
But I, I love the, the platform so far.
Like the way that it is structured is similar to the one
that I currently use for my, as I mentor.
So it felt very familiar. It's very easy to navigate.
And on the other side where designers are going to come and
be seeking out coaches, how do you plan to get the word out
besides like, of course, coming on podcasts and things like
that? Do you think that you'll be at
markets or different places like that to help raise awareness of
this great service that is out there for this person who's
maybe, you know, not even like the way we were the first couple
years of business is like, I wasn't even thinking about
getting a coach. I didn't know that was possible
or out there like an option or needed or anything like that.
Because that's really the person a lot of times that really needs
the service. And so do you have a a plan for
reaching out to that person? I want to reach all of them now.
Yes, I want to go to all the markets.
I want to talk to whomever and wherever I can.
Obviously, we're doing as much social media reach out and
through podcasts at the moment. But yes, I want to continue to
spread the word. The challenge is it's for those
people who are not already investing in their education and
like I feel like if they're already listening to podcasts,
they're already interested in, how do I continue to up level my
business? If they're not attending the
industry events, if they're not listening to podcasts, it's
going to be really hard to get them easily, but it's going to
take a little bit. This is a brand new concept.
This isn't out there. I don't even think there's any
other industry that offers this kind of business level
matchmaking. So I understand there's going to
be a little bit of a pause and maybe a hesitation 'cause
they're like, what does it entail?
It is a mixture of matchmaking, like if it was match.com and
LinkedIn had a bit fabulous interior design, baby.
That's what this is. Plus the community aspect of it
in an affordable way. So it's not this pressure, but
it's like, oh, I just all of a sudden have a network.
I can be a solopreneur and have all the people, the right people
who've already been vetted and I can trust it at my fingertips.
Getting that message out will always be the trickiest and we
are doing our darndest to get it out there.
We just finished beta, right, Rebecca?
So we're still brand new. We're still getting the word
out. We're in pre sale, so it's like
we've got early access at a very much reduced price just so that
we can get as many people on there and spread the word.
And then we'll do full launch in a couple of months.
But this is the time to hop on and really experience it and see
what it entails. Because if you think of how much
time it would take for you to hunt for the coach, you're going
to spend a couple hours. Well, I'm sorry that paid for
your subscription. You're done.
Like, don't waste your time hunting.
Just come in. I will deliver it for you.
We will make it easier for you to build the right people to
have in your back pocket. Yeah, I love.
That a whole approach and also for those that maybe are like, I
don't know if I need a coach, but I still would love to be a
part of a community and have other designers and then maybe
when I'm ready I can have a coach.
Can they still get in and kind of be a part of that and kind of
look around in within the system and can it start making
connections like that? You bet.
Like that's what's going to be great when we go to full launch.
Like we have limited memberships now, but when we go to full
launch, designers can choose from one or two packages.
They can choose a membership type that gets them everything.
You're getting the coach matching every year we will do a
wonderful coach matching session with them.
So even if you're not hiring this year or you do hire and
next year you want to potentially hire someone else,
we'll do it again and figure out that you're getting the
community, you're getting the directories, you're getting the
online resources that we're having on there, the exclusive
events. But if you're like, I just want
to try out the community, I would love the idea of you
linking me with peers who understand me, who I can meet
with every month and really expand my network a little bit
and my circle of influence. Guess what?
We'll offer everything to you except for the coach matching at
a lower price. So you can come in, have the
whole platform available to you, and you still can hire coaches.
Guess what? You're not required to hire a
coach when you're on here. This is just giving you access
and an easier way to pick them when you are ready.
That's great. Yeah.
I think that'll be a great opportunity for a lot of people
because signers can be so siloed in their businesses, you know,
solopreneurs most of the time and there's not always a
community or a, you know, an association or something that
meets in their local area. So they might not have a whole
lot of support from other designers.
And this is a great way to get connected with like minded
individuals, right? So.
I will say when you talk with other peers, like I love the
fact that not only are they giving you great advice, you've
got people who can like, oh, I went through that too.
This is what I did. And then you can learn from it,
good or bad, like, did they do the right thing?
You can ask them that. They're also probably learning
from coaches. So you're kind of learning
vicariously through them. And one of the biggest thing is
that it normalizes the pains you're going through.
Again, is that comparison like, oh, the grass must be greener on
the other side. Not always, no.
We're all going through bumps in the road and it's OK.
Like it all of a sudden you're like, OK, I'm not failing just
because I had this happen over here because everybody's going
through it and there's always a solution.
And that's where these peers really do.
Help. Yeah, I love that.
Well, what else do we need to know but about the program or
about you before we send everybody over to your website?
We'll look at it, please. Come, please come.
This is again like it. It's pre sale time.
So know in the future when we do full launch, there's going to be
a little bit more of a application process.
But if you're wanting to test out the platform right away and
see what we're working on, if you hop in at presale, we are
pausing that application process till we go to full launch.
So you're getting in to the platform right now.
We are having events, We are doing exclusive events with
exclusive teaching. And these are great coaches that
we already have on the platform. Rebecca is just one of them.
We have other coaches already on their resource partners that you
can go talk to. This is a way to already get the
level up business and start talking with other designers
right now without waiting. Right.
Love that. And where can people find you if
they want to check out your design side or the Kyvari side?
Oh. I would love to connect with you
with So Kyvari Co. That's the Instagram handle or
Sonia Barney design message me. I would love to chat again.
This is new. This is not out there.
I'm sure I could explain it better.
So if you have questions, please connect with me ask.
I will answer anything about this program.
I will have another zoom call with you because I want people
to understand the benefits of it.
There's more than what I can share here.
There's just this depth of services that we are offering
and a unique opportunity that again, it's not out there.
Yet, yeah, I love it. Even if I wasn't a part of it,
I'd still be recommending it because I just think it's so
wonderful because at Disney, like even people who are coaches
need to be coached as well, right?
So like, I'm sure I will be flipping over to the designer
side and looking for some coaching myself within the
program. So I think it's great.
That is the unique thing. I don't know of any of our
coaches who don't work with coaches too.
The more education you get about it, the more you realize
everybody is looking to improve themselves.
And once you get in that community, it's just a growing
thing. It's this growth mindset, so
addictive in a good way of, of just like saying, oh, how can I
improve? This is a great way and it's I
love the connections that happen once you're in a community.
Like this? Yeah, yes, Love, love, love.
Well, thank you so much, Sonia, for coming on today.
Like I said, we'll put all of the links in the show notes so
people can find you, connect with you, get signed up and just
avoid all of the wasted years that we did the first part of
our career by being touched straight out the gate.
So love that. All right, Well, thank you so
much. It's been great talking with
you. It's wonderful.
Thanks, Rebecca. So the links to check out Sonia
and Kyvari are both in the show notes.
You can check that out. It's a great platform.
I have been enjoying the system so far and it's definitely worth
checking out if you're trying to find the right coach and who to
work with. Of course, if you already know
that you want to work with me, you can get signed up with my
design mentor and I'd love to work with you on starting out
your career in interior design or your business or whatever it
is that you have that you need help with.
And also don't forget I have a link for the webinar from
Passion to Profit. 5 Money Moves to Start your Interior Design
Business, right? And that was a webinar I did
back in December. So if you missed it, then you
can get the replay in the show notes.
So check that out. That's all I have for you this
week. Thanks for tuning in.
And next week we'll have another great episode.
So until then, stay creative. Thanks for listening.
If you love this episode, please leave a rating and a review.
This helps me reach other curious creatives like you.
If you have a topic request or would like to contact me, simply
head over to my website ourawarddesign.com or e-mail me
at podcast@ourawarddesign.com.