Hello and welcome to episode 10 of design.
Curious podcast. Today on the show, I have Liz
Toombs who is a designer with a very interesting.
Need she designs for the Greek life, she does primarily
sorority houses and you'll hear all about that in our
conversation. How she got into that and how
she uses her Niche to Market and connect with people all over the
country. Let me tell you a little bit
about Is she is known as The go-to Decorator for sorority
Interiors on college campuses, the work of tombs and the PDR
Interiors team can be seen on over 80 campuses spread across
22 plus States. A leader in the decorating
industry for nearly two decades. Tooms is a graduate of the
University of Kentucky and an alumna of Alpha, Gamma, Delta
mentoring women is a keystone of PDR something tombs learned.
To Value through her fraternity experience, helping to preserve
that experience for current and future.
Members of women's organizations is what drives tombs to focus on
sorority housing projects, in addition to pdrs vast work in
Greek housing. The Firm also offers
comprehensive services for private residences.
A trusted media Source terms is quoted in notable Outlets,
including the Huffington Post, the associate press and
realtor.com she. And the company were Done
msnbc's. You are business in a profile
about the Brand's business Acumen tombs resides in
Lexington Kentucky where she is very involved in giving back to
the community Through the Junior League and other local
charities. She created the Mary SS Memorial
Scholarship in honor of her mother who passed away from
cancer in 2012. The scholarship is awarded
annually to a University of Kentucky College of Agriculture
food and environmental. Steward n't who has lost a
parent from cancer tombs and Joy's exercising spending time
on Lake Cumberland and almost always has a book in her hands.
She shares her home with her husband Billy and they're
frequently instagrammed dog Bartlett.
So let's talk with Liz about her Niche and how she got into
interior design. You're now listening to design,
curious a place where you creative one are here to learn
about what it really is. Like, to be an interior designer
and I'm your host and Mentor Rebecca, Ward, if you're worried
about how to succeed in a creative career, if you're ready
to learn your next steps to become an Interior Designer.
And if you want the satisfaction of doing something you love
every day, You are in the right place.
Grab a coffee, a notebook. And let's dig into today's
episode. I'll is welcome to design,
curious. Thanks for being here.
Well, thanks for having me. Yeah, I've been looking forward
to this. I'm really curious about your
story and I want to hear all about it.
So why don't you start by telling our listeners the name
of your company and where you're designing out of?
Yeah, sure. So the name of my company is PDR
Interiors. We Based in Kentucky.
So we've got an office in Lexington and Louisville.
I have a small team but we do sorority house designs.
And we do those on college campuses across the country.
Wow, that is such a specific Niche.
Hello that. How did you get into that?
Oh gosh. That's always like the
million-dollar question, isn't it?
So the short version is through a business.
Contact of my husband's, I was asked to do a fraternity house
to help them with a space. The update and then Word of
Mouth from there. Another organization, a women's
organization on the same campus which was the University of
Kentucky, they heard about me. So they called and asked for my
help. And then from there, I have just
built relationships at local and National levels and parlayed it
into a niche market. That I really love because I was
Greek in college, and so I can see the benefits and understand
the value of housing supporting that college experience.
Right. So do you reach back to your
college times? And you're thinking about your
whole experience as you went through that the Greek housing
and everything like that, the maybe frustrations that you ran
into, or what was it like for you at that time, I loved the
house I thought it was amazing to have this big house where I
can hang out with all of my friends and I could go once a
week for dinner when I wasn't living in the house and then I
could go for lunch and dinner every day.
When I was living in the house, And that was awesome for me.
And then, you know, we'd have the TV room where we would all
pile into watch TV shows. Now, all the women get in there
and they watch The Bachelor at the time, it was more, like,
Trading Spaces, like those. Yeah.
Run. And actually, that was part of
the inspiration of my story is, I was watching.
Do you remember Vernie upon the show?
Yeah, I think it was burnt. I may remember that part wrong,
but either way, somebody did a sorority house on one of the
episodes and I was like there is no way.
The people get paid to do sorority houses like no way and
then anyway, it just obviously planted the seed for me and here
we are all these years later. Wow.
That's so how do you get paid? Like, is there a budget?
That's rorty houses have that they can plan for updating the
house each year or every couple of years or how do you work with
that on the business side for you?
Yes, that is a good question. So yes, there is a budget and
how often a house gets Dated really varies on what size that
budget is and kind of what kind of level of quality can go in
but yes they they look at it as a business and they figure out
how often they need to be replacing things to stay
competitive on campus recruitment but also to serve
the needs of their members because those needs change,
things change over time how the women use the space changes, you
know, you obviously have to have sleep study, eat spaces you want
hangout spaces, so yeah. So anyway, that budget is all
brought to me and my team and we figure out how to allocate it to
the best possible uses. So it is a residential house.
But do you at all? Look at it as though it's a semi
commercial space because so many people are coming through and
using it. Do you have higher quality
fabrics and Furniture because of that?
Hmm, totally so it definitely has to look like a home and feel
like a home but it has to perform on a commercial level.
Just like you're saying but it doesn't necessarily they don't
want it to look like a Hotel, if you will.
So we have to figure out some ways to kind of get the
commercial durability in and get all that high quality, but then
also make it feel as comfortable as if you were going home to see
your parents for the weekend, right?
Yeah. So when you are in the sorority
house yourself, and you're watching Trading Spaces and
you're like, no, no way anyone gets paid for that, was that
like a, planting a seed for you of, like, I would love to do
that if someone could get paid well to do that.
Yeah, absolutely. And to me that was like a moment
of thinking, I could be a personal shopper, right?
Like people get paid to shop for right, right.
That was my own personal moment of, oh my gosh, like that does
not exist except on TV but it does in a there is a need for it
and there is you know a good group of us out there that do
this kind of work solely and a lot of designers have done one
or two here or there, but that is about 90% of what my team
does. And so it's a focus and We
decided Focus that we have we have chosen.
Okay, so before you fell into this Niche, how did you come
about with PDR and develop your business and what was your
education and everything? Okay.
Oh so what I did was a little bit less of the traditional
route. So I majored in merchandising
apparel and textiles, I was very clear when I went into college
and I went to meet with my advisor, the things that
interested me. Interior design was great.
I loved it. I love fashion but I just wasn't
sure what I wanted to do with all of it.
So she suggested I take a class in this at the time, we called
it, Matt for merchandising apparel, and textiles and I
loved it. It was all about, we had, you
know, fiber content classes. We really got in there and
learned about Fabrics. There obviously was a retail
component with that merchandising part of things.
And so I just I enjoyed that and I went that route the interior
design program being a little bit more.
Or architecture focused was not my personal Forte and not what I
wanted to get into, that's why I went the route I did.
And then once I graduated, I worked in sales for a little
bit, for a countertop company and got my feet.
Wet on the sales, side of things, which I know so many
people are just really averse to selling, right?
It makes them nervous. They feel like it sleazy.
It's not a promise you, you can make it In any possible way.
Yeah, so yeah. So I did that and I lot of my
customers were design firms and they were contractors.
And so I started to see that side of the business and really
take an interest in it. And so I went to work for one of
my customers. That had a design franchise here
in Lexington, and did a certified interior decorators
course, with that program, or that company.
And I still keep that certification up today but that
was my past. Earth to getting here, right.
And then in 09 that company closed.
You know, we had the recession right luxury business is weren't
always doing really well so that I closed up and I went out of my
own. Okay.
Wow. So then how did you grow your
business over that time because you started in the recession?
Basically, I mean I did the same thing.
So how did you start getting clients?
Well, the only way to go after a recession is up in my opinion.
Yeah, exactly. I don't think so.
I chose to start without I didn't want any investors?
I didn't want to take out a loan.
Some what I did was I obviously was known in the profession
already, just under a different company name and I was doing a
lot of networking locally. I was a part of be and I
business Network having a national.
Are you familiar with that? I am?
Yeah. Okay.
So I was involved in that at the time and so I just started, you
know, to ask for referrals or what I wanted with my own
business and started to get them and then I would take my money
from projects, invest it back and more marketing and
networking and pay myself a little bit and just let it
snowball from there. It was slow growth, but it was
growth that I was proud of and that I was comfortable with
because I wasn't putting me and my husband too much at risk by
getting us into a ton of debt instead.
I was just working with what money was coming in at the time.
Hmm. Yeah.
So, have you tried anything in your business that hasn't worked
well as you been growing? Yeah, I'm sure that I have and
now, I have to think about what it is because I tend to be
harder on myself than somebody else would be.
So there were things that I've done, like, whatever the latest
thing is, and I'll be like, oh, I could do that or I'll try
that, you know, then you end up bouncing around a lot and just
staying in your lane owning what you're good at, and focusing on
that. And I think that is something as
business owners. Especially new business owners,
we tend to want to grab at anything that we can get jobs.
Lies and that's okay to an extent because you have to
experience certain clients or certain projects to know that
that's not really what you want to get into but you can't keep
that up forever and so as soon as I learned that lesson of you
know I just need to let it go. I want to lean into the sorority
work. We still have our great
residential clients. We work with but I'm not
necessarily out there trying to take anyone and everyone as a
client that was good like I learned from my mistakes there.
Something else I did was I was like I want to write a book
because I'm an Avid Reader and, you know, I wanted to share all
my knowledge and different things and I just I couldn't get
it right? Rebecca like I just I wasn't
happy with what I was putting out and I still have the
manuscript and it's still there and I think one day I'll come
back to it. Yeah.
But I just for whatever reason, it wasn't the right time.
So I don't know if you count that as something I've done
wrong, her steak, I kind of do. But then, I also try to give
myself some Grace and say, like, it just, it was The timing.
Yeah, before the call, we are talking about how you have a
person helping you out right now.
Are you mentoring this individual in your firm right
now? Yes, we actually have two
student workers. Okay, so typically what happens
is we offer like a summer internship for somebody in the
interior design program. Historically, they've come from
the University of Kentucky but it's open to any University, any
school and they work with us for the summer and if that goes well
then they have the opportunity to start working This part time
in the fall and that role is called project assistant.
Because what I try to do is to give them the opportunity to
move up and be promoted within the company, because they're not
getting a lot of work experience.
Otherwise, and I think that's really valuable in their resume
to show that, they made an increase during and I'm here.
Oh, that's really smart. Yeah, yes.
So long story short, I have a student that just started today.
She is a freshman. This is the first time I've ever
brought a freshman on, but I think she's going to be a really
great addition. Mission.
And so she's interning. And then our intern from this
past summer, she is moved into the project assistant role.
So she's here in the office today, doing some drawings and
pulling some things together, how big is your firm, then it is
so small. It's that's okay.
I just mentioned and then I have one other designer who is in the
Louisville area. So okay, if it's small on
purpose it's a little more manageable that way.
Yeah. So how long then do you keep
these project assistance? If you on the job, like it's not
a never-ending position, right? So right, yeah.
So it depends on where they are in their college career.
Personally, I enjoy bringing in interns in their sophomore year,
right for their sophomore year because that gives us some more
time together if it goes, well, is the last project assistant I
had she started as an intern. She was with us two and a half
years because I am early and so that was so great because I
think the reason a lot of firms shy away from A from getting
interns is because you feel like by the time you get them up to
speed with your processes, they're leaving.
They're already going on to something else and if you're not
in a position that you want or need to hire them full time,
you're just kind of stuck. And so you feel like you've put
all this time in and you're not really, you know, getting much
from it or you feel like you're too busy.
And so this is kind of my way of combating that if that makes
sense. Yeah, that's great.
I love seeing other designers, give to the new generation
coming through and Seen on all the things that you're learning
and kind of help fast-track their careers which is great
opportunity. Yeah that's what's great about
you doing this podcast is helping anybody at whatever
point in their life to learn about the profession and learn
about the different facets of it.
I shared with you before we recorded.
It's now part of my intern orientation that they have to
listen to your design internship, do's and don'ts
because I thought you had some really valuable advice in there.
And I couple that with the Book. Great on the job.
Who? I had heard that author Jody,
Glickman speak on a different podcast and I am obsessed with
this book. Like everything in it is so
valuable. I used to teach a soft skills
class at the University of Kentucky.
And it's just all of those things college is great for
teaching, you your craft, but they're not great at teaching,
you those soft skills and this book.
And then, I think your podcast are so valuable to go
hand-in-hand for the interns that come through my company.
That is very, I'm gonna go check That book right after we get off
this call, I highly recommend it.
I bought a whole box of them to give away because I'm so
obsessed. That's great.
I want to touch on. You just said that you hot soft
skills at the college. Can you explain what that term
is? And what kind of skills you were
actually teaching? Yes, absolutely.
I realized, when I say that, it's not always clear.
So some of the very specific things that we talked about was
networking. So the students would pick a
profession that they were interested in and find someone
locally that they could sit down and have coffee with or
interview. And I had a lot of great
contacts from my network that stepped up and they said, hey,
we will meet with these kids and they came away with so much
valuable information about understanding their career or
their desired career. I should say we talked about
that, we talked about appropriate, workplace, attire,
and how it's not one-size-fits-all and there
still are Some rules that do apply to everything.
So we tried to kind of give them preparation for that.
We talked about when it's appropriate to make a phone call
versus an email versus texting someone in the business world,
that's really good. Yeah, uh-huh.
Yeah, it's an age bracket of people that I think want to just
automatically go to text but you lose tone of voice and you lose
some context there and they're going to be a lot of confusion
between text and email. Where if you pick up the phone
phone you you can really solve things a lot quicker.
Yeah. But yeah, it was those types of
things that we went over. We even had a speaker come in
and talk about how to have difficult conversations in the
workplace and we had some scenarios just to try to prep
these students. For sometimes you have to have
uncomfortable conversations and these are some of the best ways
you could approach those. Yeah, yeah, guaranteed.
You will have uncomfortable conversations and yeah, with
clients and vendors with coworkers, is it?
Alright. Yeah.
Wow, what a really great class. I wish every student had to take
that. Thank you.
Yeah, to its that's stuff. I needed to know getting out and
I learned over time and so I just wanted to try to get it
back into school. Yeah, wonderful.
So, over the last couple of years, the industry's been
changing, you know, with the pandemic and all those things,
how has it changed for you? Has your Niche with the
sororities been affected at all. All, yes, it's definitely been
affected. I think where I saw it the most
was early on the concerns that there was because just like you
said, there is a budget associated with these houses.
And when you had to shut down schools and send everyone home
from campus, has suddenly the funds that you're relying upon
to come in for students, paying for that housing and then you
use that money to keep up the house.
Those funds stop for a minute and we were all very unsure when
that was going. Come back and start flowing
again. So we saw a little bit there but
fortunately I've seen that the Greek system hasn't slowed down
since then because now people are really clamoring for
camaraderie and together and Gathering and they want that
place to belong even more so than they did pre-coated, right?
So in that regard things are going really well.
And were you Greek in college? Do you have But I had some
friends who are yeah. Okay, so you maybe know a little
bit about it but so recruitment usually is the end-all be-all as
far as you want the house in Tip-Top shape because you're
going to have these potential new members coming through.
So you want to show it off that over the years, has changed some
on different campuses. They try to level the playing
field by removing some of the decorative items.
So that it's really more about the members and the people in
it. But for the campuses that
everything does stay in the house, it's usually You want to
sparkling and looking amazing and something that covid did do
was it cause people to slow down with all of these supply chain
issues and these delays, everyone involved in these
housing projects, realized we're going to get it when we're going
to get it. Yeah, we're going to have to
figure out how to recruit without, you know, it just.
It can't be about the house, it can't be about this stuff and
we're going to be okay. You know a lot of worse things
have happened and we're going to be fine.
And so I really She ate that level of patience that has come
out of it and now whereas usually the summer would be the
only time we would be installing these projects because the
students would be out of school now, we have them trickle more
throughout the year and selfishly from a scheduling
standpoint. It's lovely because I'm able to
spread out my travel similar. Right.
Yeah, that's good. Are you doing primarily
Furnishings or do you do any remodels of like the bathrooms
and kitchens and things like, all of that.
So don't tend to get into the kitchens because They are more
commercial kitchens and I don't say too much in that regard.
Yeah, people do like the night kitchens or, you know, the
little server, he's things like that.
But yes, the bathrooms new construction, any kind of
renovation and addition, as well as just updating furnishings and
soft goods. Yeah.
And has that taking you outside of your region?
Do I've been designing all over the country or are you guess or
Internet? We have a map that we keep in
our office just to keep Keep you.
It's just a fun little reminder. So we have done projects on
campus, has over 90 campuses and likeness 25 plus States.
So, about your way in California, we've been up to New
York down to Florida, and everywhere in between.
Wow, that's great. And then you you travel to each
of these locations, I mean, I'm sure you can do a lot remotely,
but yes, you see the finished product for sure.
Yes, in most instances we do. So we usually try to go on two
trips. We try to go out for what we
call our scoping trip where we get All the information we need
and measurements and meet with people.
And then, everything else is done remotely all of our
meetings, all of our design work and then we go back to oversee,
the installation and just to make sure everything that we
envisioned in the client wanted is, what is happening?
Hmm. Do you see your company growing
more than what you're doing now, like having more employees or do
you think you're at it? Sweet spot.
You know, I feel like I'm going to Sweet Spot.
We have had more people before and it's fine.
Fine. But I find that then I get
pulled a little bit thin because I'm not able to do as much
design work as I enjoy doing and having to manage people more.
And that is something that you really have to think about when
you're running a business, is why are you running this
business? Is it because you just want to
be like Visionary, top-level management that type of stuff?
Is it that you want to get in there and do the nitty-gritty
work all the time? Because there is a difference
between those two things. And my husband and Talk about
this a lot that it's weird to us that in.
I don't know if it's American culture if it's just business
culture in general. But when somebody's good at
their job, the way that you are rewarding them is by making them
manage other people doing the job and that's not necessarily
what they're good at. And so I think we have to know
yourself as a professional and just as a general person and
know what you want to get out of that.
Yeah, so good because he think about going up the The ladder in
a company, it takes you out of the craft and that might be what
I mean. Some people will find that they
do enjoy that management that upper level management and
things like that. Yeah.
But initially there in there because of the craft and they
take that away, maybe they lose the passion for the job.
Yeah, you're exactly right. And nobody can answer that for
you. You have to know what you want
out of that. So I've learned over the years,
I like a relatively smaller team.
I want us to all be there to be able to Hope each other but it
doesn't need to be massive and I think we've had a good point
right now. Good.
Do you know of other designers who have the same Niche that you
could refer people to if you, like we're overstretched or had
too many projects on the inquiry?
Know, that's a good question. So, there are a few of us that
do this Pocus and the situation has not come up where we've had
to refer to each other. Most of the clients are actually
aware of us, but I'm not opposed.
To it. I do that with my residential
work. If we're stretched too thin, we
have some good people locally that we happily refer to and the
clients are thrilled for the recommendation because if they
come to us it's usually by referral.
And so then they trust our opinion and I really value that
I appreciate you asking that because not everyone in this
industry is so generous that they would want to refer to past
business to someone else. Oh yeah, yeah for sure.
I always loved having a resource that designers I can refer
Clients or potential clients to if I'm just like I can't I'm at
capacity right now but I had no another great designer and you
know, we're all there's enough for everybody, we're all in this
together. So it's just like this chair.
I agree with you. And then in the end, you're
still looking out for the clients best interest.
Because it's not about you and you just telling them no and
walking away, you're helping them get connected to someone
who can assist them. Exactly.
Yeah. And I even learned that as I
was, you know, starting out definitely a Generalist.
Like doing all the things commercial residential, and then
eventually I was like, I'm not great, like it's not my
wheelhouse to do the commercial design.
So, I started getting a group of designers that I could refer
that out too, because I'm like, I'm not doing the client a
service. If I give them mediocre design,
working commercial where it's, you know, they're going to do
better with some who specializes in it.
So, you are exactly right. And I totally believe in what
goes around comes around and like you said, there is plenty
of work for All of us. And so there's no need to act
out of a mentality of scarcity. Exactly, hundred percent.
Okay, good. Any other advice you have for
people starting out on their own with a small business or just
into the career? Oh gosh.
I think just you know, get to know people in the profession,
you know, just like you and I talking I learned so much from
other folks in in the industry and you know, you and I met
through Toby fairley's coaching and it Zayn you.
And now I'm doing some continued stuff with her.
And I do get so much value from hearing what other people are
doing. Not because I'm trying to copy
it, but because I realize I'm not alone in either my struggles
or my questions or these ideas that I'm having.
And so I get some validation in that camaraderie and then I feel
more empowered to go forward. So I would definitely encourage
people to feed off of other folks, they could just be other
creatives in general. It doesn't have to be someone in
your exact line of Or were you dragging competition?
You know. Yeah, yeah.
For sure, do I remember that? You had a podcast going to do
you still do that? I do.
Yes, I took a little bit of a break for the summer installs,
but yes, my podcast is called sorority chat and we'll be
coming back here in the fall. And we talked about its
everything related to sorority housing decorating and Beyond.
So I'm really big on leadership. I love hearing about those
topics and there's a lot of that that ties Into sorority stuff.
So we we come back to that quite a bit as well.
So, yes, thank you for letting me talk about that.
Oh, yeah, we'll definitely have a link in the show notes for
that. Is that then geared towards
Greek life? Or is it for designers or the
key to your towards Greek life? So anybody like students or
alumni or National Housing offices, anybody involved in
kind of the sorority housing side of things.
We also have a course called interior decorating. 101
sorority Edition and that is geared towards like local how
scoreboards running a house. Although it has been suggested
that maybe I tweaked it a little bit because there is some
interest from other designers and wanting to get some
knowledge of how to appropriately serve that market.
So that's okay. Okay, really interesting and
well we can put a link to that too.
And where's where can people find you on your website and
socials? Yeah.
So the website is PDR Dash. Interiors.com and we are on
Facebook, Instagram and Tick Tock and it's at PDR Interiors.
Wonderful. Thank you so much Liz for coming
on and sharing your knowledge. And just loved hearing your
story and such a unique Niche to discover.
Yes. Well, thank you.
I always enjoy talking with you and I appreciate you making time
for me. Yeah, talk to you later.
So, I hope you found that as interesting as I did, it just
goes to show you that you can use your own life experiences to
really speak to your client, gives them confidence that you
understand where they're coming from and what they're going
through and each down into something that will really serve
them. And that you really enjoy, stay
tuned for next week's episode of design, curious podcast, as
always, you can find the show notes and links to all the
things that we've talked about. In the pot, especially the book
She shared with us, I'll be going in purchasing that right
away and you will want to do all those details can be found in
the show, notes at our war design.com for / podcast, and if
you would like to be a guest on the show, go ahead and apply
their, we would love to hear your origin story and if you are
a curious creative looking to discover, if interior design is
the right career for you, then stay tuned for next week's
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If you loved this episode, please leave a rating and a
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