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Hello and welcome to episode 36 
of design. 

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Curious podcast, I'm your host 
and Mentor Rebecca Ward today on

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the podcast, we have one of my 
very own coaches Kimberly Selden

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which I'm very excited and 
honored to have her on the 

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podcast today and I will get 
into her introduction here in a 

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minute. 
But first, I want to remind you 

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that if you're thinking about a 
career in interior design, which

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is why you're listening to this 
podcast, then you'll want to 

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Download the three things. 
I wish I had known before 

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starting a career in interior 
design signing up for that will 

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put you on the mailing list to 
make sure that you get each and 

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every podcast episode to your 
inbox and any other goodies that

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I have along the way you can 
sign up for that. 

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Download on my website are award
design.com forward slash 

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podcast. 
So let me tell you a little bit 

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about Kimberly. 
I feel like she barely needs an 

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introduction. 
If you haven't yet go and listen

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to her. 
Cast business at design podcast 

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and you'll just hear so many 
great episodes on how to run a 

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wonderful design business that 
has definitely influenced 

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myself. 
But let me tell you that the 

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Kimberly Selden Design Group is 
a thriving, interior design firm

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with offices in Toronto and Los 
Angeles parallel to her design 

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career, Kimberly is an in-demand
TV personality having hosted 

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three of her own shows for HGTV 
Canada and currently appearing 

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now Nationally on Cityline City 
TV in Canada. 

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Kimberly was also the decorating
editor of style at home magazine

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for 18 years and then in 2004 to
help other designers reach their

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full potential can really 
launched business of design and 

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online, learning platform 
offering field-tested, business 

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training. 
Today, business of designed has 

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members from more than 50 
countries around the world and 

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is a trusted resource for design
professionals looking to satisfy

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clients and run a profitable 
successful. 

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Interior design firm. 
So, without further Ado, let's 

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talk to Kimberly Selden You're 
now listening to design, curious

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a place where you creative one 
are here to learn about what it 

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really is. 
Like, to be an interior designer

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and I'm your host and Mentor 
Rebecca, Ward, if you're worried

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about how to succeed in a 
creative career, if you're ready

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to learn your next steps to 
become an Interior Designer. 

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And if you want the satisfaction
of doing something you love 

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every day you are. 
You are in the right place. 

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Grab a coffee, a notebook, and 
let's dig into today's episode. 

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Hi, Kimberly. 
Welcome to design carriers 

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podcast. 
Hey Rebecca, it's so good to be 

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here and really nice to see your
face. 

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Yeah. 
You too. 

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It's such an honor to have you 
on the podcast and kind of turn 

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of events because I've been on 
yours a couple of times, but now

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it's such a privilege to have 
you on design. 

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Curious. 
It's really weird to be the 

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person being interviewed by 
Charter. 

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Yeah. 
All you have to do is basically 

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just talk about yourself, so, 
Well, you are obviously a 

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successful designer who leads 
other designers into success 

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with your program, but I wanted 
to kind of go back to how it all

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started. 
What made you interested in 

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interior design in the first 
place? 

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Well it's not my first career, 
it was my second career. 

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My first career was television 
and I first, I worked at ABC in 

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Los Angeles and then I ended up 
meeting a Canadian. 

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We got married and moved to 
Canada. 

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And I worked at CTV and 
production so he's worked on TV 

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shows I loved it and then I 
don't know. 

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You know, I found out that I was
expecting our first baby and I 

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thought, you know, TVs a little 
crazy like the hours are crazy, 

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the budget, the clients that all
of it's a little bit crazy, a 

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lot of Diva energy in 
television. 

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I thought man I'm going to do 
something easier. 

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I know I'll study interior 
design. 

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That'll be fun. 
In fact I didn't even know there

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was a difference between 
interior design. 

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Decorating. 
So, I signed up for this three 

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year diploma and when they sent 
me the list of things, I needed 

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to buy, one of them was a 
drafting table. 

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And I thought, what on Earth do 
I need a drafting table for, I 

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just want to go shopping with 
other people's money, you know, 

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kind of thing. 
But it turns out I really love 

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drafting so high. 
I actually really sad, I got rid

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of my, it was a really pretty 
vintage drafting board and I 

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think about it nostalgic Ali 
from time to time. 

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I guess nobody needs one anymore
but It was just really fun. 

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Yeah, I had one for school. 
I like a portable one. 

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I could set up on a my kitchen 
table and take it with me if I 

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needed to. 
But but, yeah, I don't know that

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they really require those 
anymore. 

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I wouldn't think so because 
everything is AutoCAD and so, I 

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never actually learned how to do
AutoCAD but I still think about 

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those days sitting at the 
drafting table and how fun that 

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was. 
Hmm. 

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Oh, that's great. 
Okay, so then after you finished

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your certificate program then 
Did you go to into business for 

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yourself, right away, or did you
work for someone else for a 

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little while? 
Well, the plan was to work for 

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someone else. 
By the time I graduated from 

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school, I was pregnant with our 
second child and I went to 

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school at evenings and weekends 
so mostly I was a full-time mom 

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who was going to school and the 
plan was to get a job where he 

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was somebody else. 
But in 1991 there was a terrible

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recession and I went on many job
interviews where I was told like

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G we would love to hire you but 
you know there's no work. 

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There's just no work at all. 
So I thought I will go into 

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business for myself. 
I mean, how hard can it be 

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really? 
I was really naive and probably 

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that's good because I maybe 
wouldn't have done it. 

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If I had known how hard it 
actually was going to be. 

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Yeah, definitely a challenge. 
Okay. 

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So then you did start working 
and obviously found it a 

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challenge, right? 
So that's a sturdy, talk about 

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some stories where you like, 
have A baby on your hip or your 

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holding someone else's baby, 
right? 

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And then you're like a home with
mine and like all these. 

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Yeah, I'm paying a babysitter 
and showing up to client 

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meetings, and because I'm not 
charging very much at all. 

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They're treating me. 
Like, I'm not worth very much at

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all. 
I'm, so I'm holding their babies

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and I'm standing in the kitchen 
while they make soup and they 

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just never get around to making 
decisions and meetings that 

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should take 15 minutes. 
We're taking an hour and a half 

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and you know, and someone 
smarter would have Stopped the 

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train wreck. 
That was my interior design 

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practice earlier but I just kept
thinking it'll get better, you 

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know, to get them like an 
eternal optimist, don't worry, 

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useful learning, it'll get 
better but it only gets worse 

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despite because you get bigger 
clients and more money and then 

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it gets worse not better, right?
If you don't have any guidance 

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on how to set up your 
procedures, so did you ever 

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reach out for coaching or seek 
out advice from other people? 

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It's so funny. 
I signed up for a variety of 

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Coaching programs, one of them. 
I remember really. 

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Well, it was this company here 
in Santa Monica, a woman named 

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Bobby Leonard, and she had these
tapes, and it would tell you how

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to run your business and it was 
like, I don't know, six hundred 

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dollars or something which was a
lot of money to me back, you 

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know, 1992 or whatever, they 
were utterly useless. 

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In fact, it's the only time I 
can remember where I actually 

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ask for my money back and they 
said no they just said, no not 

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getting your money back. 
So So I did a lot of that, I 

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threw money at it thinking, 
somebody will tell me how to do 

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it, but the reality is nobody 
really did know how to do it and

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that was the shocking thing. 
I had just imagined that 

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everybody was doing it right. 
I was doing it wrong but the 

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truth is we're all doing it 
wrong. 

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Did you have like a community of
designers locally to you that 

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you would reach out to or top 
stories? 

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Oh my gosh, I'm laughing because
there was this one I did. 

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I had a really great Group of 
designer friends who are all 

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doing it badly and not making 
any money. 

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And I'll give you a perfect 
example. 

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This one friend of mine, I won't
say his name, but I just saw him

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in Palm Springs. 
Last week, we went for lunch, he

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had this client, he met in his 
elevator at his condo. 

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And the guy said, oh, I'm a 
businessman and I'm flying Here 

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There and Everywhere I never 
have time to decorate. 

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A, my friend said, oh, well, 
what do you want? 

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Danny? 
So I really like to get some 

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wallpaper in the foyer. 
And my friend said, well, I'll 

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do that for you while you're 
away. 

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I'll hang the wallpaper and get 
it done and you'll see how you 

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like it and then We can do more 
work together so he did, but the

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guy never paid him. 
He never got any money upfront, 

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he didn't have a retainer, he 
didn't have a contract, he just 

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went and bought some wallpaper 
and showed it to the guy for a 

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sec. 
I said, he liked it. 

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He told him how much it was 
going to be. 

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He said, sure, no problem. 
So he ordered the paper had to 

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be installed and then the guy 
goes didn't wouldn't speak to 

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him. 
Although he lived in the same 

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building. 
I don't know how so my friend 

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would that go to his floor and 
knock on the door? 

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You know, he wouldn't be home 
but one day he realized that 

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they had this Program, where you
could put your shoes outside of 

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your condo door and they would 
be polished and cleaned and 

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returned to you. 
So my friend took his one left 

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shoe and then a few weeks later,
he went back, he took one more 

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left shoe. 
He has six left shoes and the 

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building had to set up these 
cameras trying to figure out who

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the shoe Thief was. 
Of course, the man knew who it 

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was, but he couldn't prove it. 
And, you know, that that's how 

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people operated like the wild 
west. 

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And I'm like, it would just be 
so much easier if you got paid. 

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I don't need six left shoes, 
although it's a funny story, 

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right? 
I need the money, maybe. 

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Yeah. 
So, what happened next? 

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You're doing business poorly and
not making any money and, and 

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complaining all the time to 
anyone, who would listen, my 

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clients are terrible. 
They take advantage of me. 

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They're not nice people. 
They don't pay their bills, my 

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Kids are terrible. 
They take advantage of me they 

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don't show up when they're 
supposed to my staff is useless,

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they don't do what I need them 
to do. 

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They never can anticipate what I
mean. 

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I was just, it was so - and I 
finally had this friend who said

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you are so - I can't stand it 
anymore. 

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Here's a phone number call this 
woman and I literally thought it

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was a psychiatrist or a 
psychologist. 

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Yeah. 
But it turns out she was a 

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business coach. 
Okay. 

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And I had no idea why I would 
call a business coach Coach 

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because my clients were idiots. 
My trays were idiots, like what 

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could a business coach teach me,
right? 

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Anyway, after a very Rocky 
start, we work together about a 

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decade and I say, a rocky start 
because I had so many firm rules

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about how the industry worked. 
It was really hard for her to 

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get me to change my mind. 
Nothing I was doing was working 

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and yet I was very committed to 
how I was doing it, if that 

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makes sense. 
Yeah, and the reason I was 

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committed to how I Is doing is 
because all my friends were 

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doing it the same way and they 
were all getting their butts 

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kicked. 
Hmm. 

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Every single one of them was 
making almost no money. 

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I had low self-esteem, right? 
But we still thought because 

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we're all doing it this way. 
This must be the right way. 

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Yeah so yeah. 
So that was an expensive first 

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couple of years where she's 
trying to get through to me that

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I might want to change some 
things, you know. 

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Right. 
Yeah. 

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Do you think back during that 
time that designers were very 

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transparent with each. 
Other about their problems. 

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And what? 
They were charging, or what they

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should be charging, and what 
them are cover and things like 

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that. 
No, not at all. 

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In fact, it's really funny. 
The first time I started 

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sharing, what I was learning 
from my business coach was 

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around 2001. 
And, you know, I just a couple 

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of things, we had tried were 
beginning to work and so I 

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started sharing what we were 
trying and how it was working. 

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And I remember the very first 
Official kind of business of 

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design event. 
It was at a carpet supplier, 

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they did have beautiful, Persian
carpets and he had about 100 

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designers in the room and I 
decided, I'm going to tell them 

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the truth. 
I'm going to tell them how bad 

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it is and what I've been doing 
to make it better. 

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And what is now working? 
And one of the questions I 

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asked, was how much do you 
charge? 

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People were so offended. 
They were angry. 

238
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I literally had people Heckle 
me. 

239
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I remember going to High Point 
once and a man yelled that I was

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00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:52,500
rude and he stood up, and he 
stormed out of the theater in 

241
00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:54,100
front of everybody. 
Wow. 

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00:12:54,100 --> 00:12:56,400
Because I had asked, what do you
charge? 

243
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Nobody talked about it. 
It was embarrassing and 

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shameful, I guess, I don't know.
I don't know why we did talk 

245
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about it but nobody talked about
it. 

246
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Nobody had that information on 
their website and people were 

247
00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:11,500
really even angry that I talked 
about it. 

248
00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:14,600
Well, it is just 2023 or 
whatever. 

249
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Now, when I go somewhere, I 
said, what do you charge most 

250
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people? 
A lot of people not everybody 

251
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but a lot of people just say 
what they charge. 

252
00:13:20,900 --> 00:13:24,700
But took, you know, 20 years of 
an uphill battle to get people, 

253
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to be honest about that, right? 
Right. 

254
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,900
And we've had interior designers
for, you know, a long time now, 

255
00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:36,100
and it is only now that it's 
started to become transparent, 

256
00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:40,300
which is really unfortunate, 
well, imagine how wonderful it 

257
00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:43,400
would have been to be else. 
Alcide wolf when nobody knew 

258
00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,600
what designers did. 
They didn't know where the 

259
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,200
trades were. 
They didn't know where to buy 

260
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:48,500
fabric. 
They didn't know where to buy 

261
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:50,800
furniture, they didn't know what
anything costs. 

262
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,900
So, of course, everything was a 
secret. 

263
00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:56,500
You didn't have to tell anybody 
anything, you just charged your 

264
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thousands and thousands of 
dollars and the very wealthy, 

265
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,400
paid it without asking 
questions. 

266
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,300
Mhm. 
But you know, circumstances 

267
00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:08,600
change and that's just not the 
way it works anymore, right? 

268
00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:11,500
Because I know it was later in 
the game that g started. 

269
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,900
To have a business that worked 
more smoothly for you and had 

270
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:19,500
procedures and systems. 
How did you find it with raising

271
00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:22,400
your children with the business?
As it was like, did you have a 

272
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,400
hard time balancing? 
It work like I really did. 

273
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,000
Yeah, I really really did 
particularly at the beginning 

274
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,800
when I had no systems and 
procedures, we used to put the 

275
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kids in bed at night, you know, 
8:00 8:30, whatever it was and 

276
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,600
then I would call it the second 
shift and I would begin the 

277
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,300
night shift of working and my 
husband. 

278
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,200
I work for me, too, and of 
course he wasn't getting paid. 

279
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,000
I wasn't billing for any of his 
hours. 

280
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:50,300
I just kept thinking, if I just 
try harder, if I work smarter, 

281
00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:53,600
if I apply myself, I'll get it 
done, I'll get it done, I'll get

282
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,100
it done. 
But the truth is of, if you are 

283
00:14:56,100 --> 00:14:59,900
applying the same principles to 
get yourself out of a problem 

284
00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:02,500
that caused the problem you're 
in trouble, right? 

285
00:15:02,500 --> 00:15:06,000
You've got to do it differently.
They so the very weird thing 

286
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,900
was, as soon as I started 
getting systems and procedures 

287
00:15:09,900 --> 00:15:13,300
that worked, I immediately 
Mediately could see I had a 

288
00:15:13,308 --> 00:15:16,700
little free time. 
You know, the workday didn't 

289
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:22,400
bleed until the evening. 
I could go home at 6:00 and I 

290
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,900
could have an evening with my 
family. 

291
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:27,000
So I know that I was a much 
better. 

292
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,200
Mom, once my life changed, and 
that's why we always say, it 

293
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,900
business have designed if you're
ready to transform your business

294
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,600
and your life, then do this 
because that's what happened at,

295
00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,300
transform my life. 
Yeah, made it. 

296
00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:41,400
A sustainable career. 
Yeah. 

297
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:43,700
And something that you can 
enjoy, actually. 

298
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:45,600
Yeah. 
I mean, I went from thinking I 

299
00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,300
had terrible clients and 
terrible trades to thinking I 

300
00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:51,000
have the nicest clients in the 
whole world and the best trades.

301
00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:54,300
Nothing changed. 
I always had the same clients 

302
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:56,700
and trades. 
I just am running a different 

303
00:15:56,700 --> 00:15:58,900
business now. 
So they like working with me. 

304
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:01,200
Mhm. 
Well, you're a definitely a 

305
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,700
Trailblazer trying to get the 
word out there that like this is

306
00:16:05,700 --> 00:16:09,500
not acceptable way of doing 
business designers like wake up 

307
00:16:09,900 --> 00:16:12,900
and start you know, being 
Parents start having systems, 

308
00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:15,300
and procedures? 
Was that challenging for you? 

309
00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:17,400
Or do you feel like you fell 
into that kind of a role 

310
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,400
naturally? 
Well, I just started sharing 

311
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,100
what was working and that felt 
very comfortable and very 

312
00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:25,300
natural. 
But I like I said, like in the 

313
00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:29,400
early days there was a lot of it
was met with a lot of heckling 

314
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,100
and anger and it was really 
shocking to me. 

315
00:16:33,100 --> 00:16:34,800
And the but then there were 
other people were like, oh my 

316
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:36,900
gosh, you're changing my life. 
Thank you so much. 

317
00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:40,100
This is so helpful, but there 
was a lot of resistance to 

318
00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:42,900
change, you know? 
People had been doing it the way

319
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:46,600
that I used to do it forever and
some people still are of course,

320
00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:49,700
and that's fine if it's working 
for you, but I've never really 

321
00:16:49,700 --> 00:16:52,700
met anyone that's working for 
that doesn't, you know, the way 

322
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:58,400
that I used to do it anyway, so 
it began to be gratifying that, 

323
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,100
you know, little by little some 
people changed what they were 

324
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:05,800
doing and they would say like oh
wow that work for me to you know

325
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,599
I know you know Leann and Nyla 
and Calgary and my husband Alan 

326
00:17:10,700 --> 00:17:12,599
my love freedom. 
Both been on the podcast. 

327
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:16,400
A number of times they were 
fairly early adapters. 

328
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,000
In fact I think Leann was one of
the first ones 2004. 

329
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,400
So people like that would say I 
did. 

330
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,200
I did what you suggested and it 
worked. 

331
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:26,700
Yeah. 
And then they would tell a 

332
00:17:26,700 --> 00:17:28,700
friend and they would tell a 
friend and they would tell a 

333
00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:31,600
friend and you know, I still 
think business have design is 

334
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,500
the best kept secret in the 
industry. 

335
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,200
You know, we're still not widely
known, believe it or not, we 

336
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,600
meet designers every day. 
Who say, where have you been 

337
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:43,900
like, oh my gosh, we've been 
waiting are Arms, how about 

338
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:47,000
we're here? 
That's hard to believe. 

339
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,100
You haven't heard of. 
Yeah, so 2004 is when he started

340
00:17:50,100 --> 00:17:52,700
business of design. 
So it's been almost 20 years 

341
00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:55,900
now, right? 
Thing growing and like, how has 

342
00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:59,700
it changed since the beginning? 
Well, like I said, now when I 

343
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:00,900
say what do you charge? 
A lot of people. 

344
00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:03,700
Just tell us what they charge at
the beginning. 

345
00:18:03,700 --> 00:18:05,800
Nobody got paid for a 
consultation. 

346
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,100
Everybody went for consultations
for free, that was a really hard

347
00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:13,900
one and people would get angry. 
Oh, I got angry and I'm like, 

348
00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:17,500
I'm not telling you what to do. 
I'm telling you, what I do. 

349
00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:21,400
You don't have to change 
anything, do whatever you want. 

350
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,500
I'm telling you what I do, and 
it works so much better and if 

351
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:28,000
you want to try it crave, but if
you don't, you know, peace be 

352
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,100
with you go your own way, man. 
It's all good. 

353
00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:34,100
So I would say that's a huge, 
huge change. 

354
00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:38,100
I would say more. 
People are starting to realize 

355
00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:42,100
that this is a career that you 
can make a lot of money at where

356
00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:46,300
a lot of the business coaches 
are still, you know, kind of 

357
00:18:46,300 --> 00:18:49,700
aiming so low, you know, they're
telling designers that they can 

358
00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:52,300
make 30,000 a year. 
And I think, oh my God, you can 

359
00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:55,500
make 30,000 a year working at 
Starbucks like, yeah, what are 

360
00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:59,800
you talking about? 
The problem with our industry is

361
00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:03,500
that we assume so much risk and 
liability with the work we do, 

362
00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:05,300
right? 
If I'm assuming, if you work at 

363
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:09,100
Starbucks, is not a lot of risk 
and liability, you're probably 

364
00:19:09,100 --> 00:19:11,300
covered for anything that could 
go wrong on a star. 

365
00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:15,600
But in our job, that's not true.
And so you do need to make 

366
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,600
money, and I think the last five
years, we've even changed our 

367
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,400
Focus away from. 
Come on, you can do it. 

368
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,400
You can make some money to like 
now we're talking like, if 

369
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,500
you're bringing home a profit of
100,000, plus you're at the 

370
00:19:29,508 --> 00:19:32,300
Starting Gate, that's not the 
Finish Line anymore. 

371
00:19:32,300 --> 00:19:35,400
That's the starting gate. 
And you know, where me being 

372
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,600
designers who are approaching, 
you know, seven figures in terms

373
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,500
of what they make annually which
is As you know, of course I 

374
00:19:42,500 --> 00:19:45,200
couldn't have ever dreamed that 
a 2004. 

375
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,000
I didn't ever think that that 
was possible, but it is, of 

376
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,100
course, yeah, yeah. 
Wow. 

377
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:52,800
That's really great. 
So I've been a part of business 

378
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,500
do design for about five or six 
years, maybe now, it's hard to 

379
00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:59,400
keep track. 
So I've really benefited from 

380
00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:02,600
the systems and procedures that 
you guys have, and it's really 

381
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,500
been a game changer for my 
business. 

382
00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:06,400
But the other thing that I 
really love that you guys 

383
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,000
started was the boss groups, 
which is your Mastermind groups 

384
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:15,400
and just having it Tight-knit 
community of designers that know

385
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,400
your business. 
And it's basically our board of 

386
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,700
directors has been really a game
changer as well for my business 

387
00:20:21,700 --> 00:20:24,900
and you can't imagine doing 
design without them now and 

388
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:27,200
going forward. 
Like I think we're lifelong 

389
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,600
friends and so do you have a 
group that's like that or a 

390
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,200
mastermind that your belong to? 
You know what? 

391
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,700
I don't hilarious me. 
I am as, you know, whenever I'm 

392
00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:39,900
with your boss group, I'm like, 
I really wish I were a member 

393
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:43,800
not just And then, I have signed
up for so many Mastermind 

394
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:48,900
programs and I paid so much 
money to be part of groups that 

395
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:51,000
facilitate it, with other 
business owners. 

396
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,200
And I've definitely learned some
things, but I've never found the

397
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,100
right Community. 
Like, I've never learned as much

398
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,100
in those, you know, very 
expensive programs, as I have 

399
00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:03,500
working one-on-one with other 
designers mmm-hmm. 

400
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,000
So I it's a weirdest thing but I
wish I was in a boss group. 

401
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:08,800
Yeah. 
So I'm going to by carelessly 

402
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:09,600
threw. 
All of you guys. 

403
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,000
I just show up from time to time
and It's just like awesome. 

404
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:17,100
Yeah, small small fly on the 
wall and take it all in. 

405
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,000
Yeah. 
Well that's definitely let you 

406
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,800
be a part of Arts whenever you 
want. 

407
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,400
That would be great. 
Thank you but to be fair you 

408
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,100
know the boss group works 
because people like you Rebecca 

409
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:34,000
have you've done the work like 
you've put in the time to 

410
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,400
improve your business and make 
it work and you're serious about

411
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:41,300
it's not a job before you you 
realize that this is a career 

412
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:42,900
here and it could be a thriving 
career. 

413
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:47,500
So I think that's also important
that the beauty boss members are

414
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:51,400
all ambitious and and that 
doesn't mean everybody wants to 

415
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,800
make a million dollars because, 
as you know, that is just not 

416
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,200
what drives some people, right? 
Right. 

417
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,200
They might have another goal but
the group still helps them get 

418
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,600
there. 
So it's a sure we've just been 

419
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,600
really fun to watch you guys. 
I feel like the grandma or 

420
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,900
something to hold. 
So where do you see your career 

421
00:22:09,900 --> 00:22:13,400
and business? 
Of design going forward. 

422
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,000
It's so funny. 
My career. 

423
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,800
I had the best year I've ever 
had last year. 

424
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,400
So I'm thrilled about that this 
year. 

425
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:23,000
I don't think it's on track to 
be as good as last year for a 

426
00:22:23,008 --> 00:22:25,000
variety of reasons, but that's 
okay. 

427
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,700
It'll still be a good year and I
could see myself doing this for,

428
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:32,500
you know, another 10 12, 15 
years, who knows? 

429
00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:34,900
Like I'm yeah, finally good at 
it. 

430
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:39,000
So being an interior designers, 
something I excel out and my 

431
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,000
clients like me. 
So it's not such A challenge 

432
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,300
anymore. 
This is some design. 

433
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:47,800
We're having a real moment where
we're thinking about the future,

434
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,600
which is part of the reason we 
wanted to do the bus groups. 

435
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,500
We realized that if the message 
is going to continue on, it has 

436
00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:56,800
to help spread it a little 
further. 

437
00:22:57,500 --> 00:23:00,600
And we need those, you know, 
mature business owners who can 

438
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,300
carry the message to keep 
carrying the message. 

439
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:07,400
So we're thinking about how 
we're going to allow business of

440
00:23:07,408 --> 00:23:11,300
design to continue into the 
future for a long, long time. 

441
00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:14,900
I'm that's exciting to think 
about like yeah, you know, I 

442
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:17,300
really feel like I've said it 
before, it's so silly. 

443
00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:20,300
But this is my calling like 
interior design is great. 

444
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:24,200
I make money, but I knew the 
first time I spoke to a group of

445
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,200
interior designers about this is
what I was meant to do with my 

446
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,000
life. 
Like I can actually make a 

447
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,300
difference in someone's life and
in so doing I make a difference 

448
00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:37,200
in my own life because I 
remember don't go back and do 

449
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,600
what you used to do. 
It doesn't work, stay the 

450
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,600
course, you know. 
That's great that to have a 

451
00:23:42,608 --> 00:23:45,700
legacy like that you can leave 
and it's really important. 

452
00:23:45,700 --> 00:23:49,300
I think that you're laying the 
groundwork now so that you don't

453
00:23:49,300 --> 00:23:52,200
have to be as involved in the 
future if you don't want to be 

454
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,600
but the torch still is burning 
and yeah well when I think about

455
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,000
it we've just barely scratched 
the surface there. 

456
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:04,000
You know 95% of designers don't 
make money, don't make enough 

457
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,200
and don't even think of 
themselves as career 

458
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,100
professionals. 
You know, many often it's kind 

459
00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:12,900
of a job e. 
Or people, you know, and that 

460
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:14,700
was certainly one of my 
challenges. 

461
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:17,400
I had a husband who had a 
high-paying job and so that 

462
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,400
allowed me for a number of years
to think. 

463
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,800
Well, it doesn't really matter 
if I don't make money this year,

464
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,500
I'll make money next year. 
I'll make money the next year 

465
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:26,100
the next year. 
And really, if you're in 

466
00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:28,100
business for yourself, you 
should make money. 

467
00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:31,400
The first year that somebody 
should have smack me upside the 

468
00:24:31,408 --> 00:24:32,800
head and said, don't be an 
idiot. 

469
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,500
You should be making money the 
first year. 

470
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,800
Yeah. 
And that continues to be a real 

471
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,000
challenge for our industry. 
I agree. 

472
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,400
Yeah. 
See that a lot and you also Oh, 

473
00:24:41,408 --> 00:24:44,800
have continued, the TV aspect 
through all this time right? 

474
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,100
You're still going on TV. 
I know it's so fun. 

475
00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:50,400
I every time I'm on, I think 
house is great. 

476
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,700
I can't believe I get paid to do
this but that was one of the 

477
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:55,500
things that really helped me get
a lot of clients. 

478
00:24:55,500 --> 00:25:00,900
I had several of my own TV shows
on HGTV Canada and so I didn't 

479
00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:03,600
have any trouble getting clients
and for some people that's the 

480
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,000
hard part, getting a science. 
And I understand that getting 

481
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,100
the classes wasn't hard, keeping
the clients was hard, making the

482
00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:14,100
clients happy was So that 
definitely gave me name 

483
00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:16,900
recognition, you know, and a 
platform. 

484
00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:21,000
And today I just have fun. 
When I'm doing this show, I do 

485
00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:25,400
City Line every month, sometimes
more and I just teach how to 

486
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,100
decorate or how to design 
something. 

487
00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:30,900
I'm doing ceilings this week. 
How to design ceiling. 

488
00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:33,800
So, it's really fun and 
occasionally, I get a client 

489
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:38,000
from the TV show but mostly not.
Most of my clients are bit 

490
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,800
higher end, you know, but it's 
really fun to do. 

491
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,800
So I would Encourage everybody, 
if you can get on a show, it's 

492
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,600
just a hoot and you get, you 
know, you get your hair and your

493
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,100
makeup done and it's fun. 
It's just yeah. 

494
00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:52,200
Do mostly talk to? 
Yeah. 

495
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,600
I wires type of public or is it 
people wanting to know what 

496
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,800
trends are or you just kind of 
like that basic information or 

497
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,000
do you actually get into some 
real design? 

498
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,400
I'm lucky. 
I actually do get into some real

499
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,500
design. 
So sitting line is a is the 

500
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:08,500
Canadian version of like the 
Ellen show. 

501
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,200
It's a morning talk show, it's 
been on the air. 

502
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,400
For I'm going to get the wrong 
number but I think it's been on 

503
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:18,100
the air for like 35 years has 
been consistently running. 

504
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,800
It may be the longest talk show 
in history. 

505
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,000
In fact, that's possible they 
had multiple hosts but the show 

506
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,100
just keeps going and going and 
going and every Thursday's home 

507
00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:31,400
day and there's days a very 
popular day. 

508
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,700
And, you know, we used to take 
long live callers. 

509
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:37,800
They would phone in and we draw 
right on the spot and I'm 

510
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,100
terrible at drawing, I hated 
that I do these Bad drawings of 

511
00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:44,600
them have to like act. 
Like that's totally cool. 

512
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,600
Now it's a little bit more 
polished. 

513
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,700
We do some pretty big setups and
it's live to tape now so they 

514
00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:54,200
could stop the tape if they 
absolutely need to, we need to 

515
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,300
change the sassette. 
So sometimes that happens. 

516
00:26:57,500 --> 00:27:00,100
It's been fun to see the 
evolution of that game. 

517
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:03,700
But ultimately your I've learned
if you're ever thinking of doing

518
00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:06,400
television or speaking event, it
was really helpful. 

519
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,700
Somebody told me only talk to 
one person. 

520
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:12,100
Talk to your best friend. 
So whenever I'm Doing something 

521
00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:14,600
it's like, as if I'm teaching 
this to my best friend. 

522
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,200
How would I talk exactly to her,
okay? 

523
00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:20,900
Because some people get very 
stiff and like, you know, one 

524
00:27:20,900 --> 00:27:24,600
might choose a wallpaper and 
nobody likes that, right? 

525
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,800
Yeah. 
You just have to channel your 

526
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,500
bestie and talk to your bestie. 
This kind of like the podcast, 

527
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:32,000
right? 
I know you probably interview a 

528
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:36,000
lot of people you don't know. 
You just act like you're talking

529
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,200
to somebody. 
You just adore and that comes 

530
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:39,200
across. 
Yeah. 

531
00:27:39,500 --> 00:27:43,200
And do you think those skills? 
Crossed over to presenting with 

532
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,200
clients. 
Yeah, I'm sure they do, in fact,

533
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,100
our podcasts next week is on 
improv, Maryland Smith. 

534
00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:55,000
She's a second City, alumni. 
A she is talking about how 

535
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,200
improv can improve your your 
life and your business life. 

536
00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:00,500
I think. 
I think like that is really 

537
00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:01,600
helpful. 
If you have trouble 

538
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,500
communicating or thinking on 
your feet are engaging or 

539
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:08,700
turning a bad situation, around 
some improv classes can really 

540
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,700
be helpful for sure. 
I think More. 

541
00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:14,600
What television did for me. 
It allowed me to really increase

542
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,200
my rates because I was well 
known. 

543
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,600
Yeah, right. 
So, people just assumed I knew 

544
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,500
what I was doing even though I'm
so sorry if you hired me. 25 

545
00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:29,500
years ago, I was a disaster and 
I apologize, I don't. 

546
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:33,800
Well, I think about that 
sometimes, early on clients who 

547
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,700
can't afford me now, but I also 
provide such a different service

548
00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:41,200
to them early on. 
And so sometimes I'll have 

549
00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:44,600
That's from the past, reach out 
from like 10 15 years ago and 

550
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,100
I'm like, well, I think about 
doing something else. 

551
00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:46,500
Mike? 
Okay. 

552
00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:50,500
Well we have this whole process 
now because I told me some come 

553
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:54,500
a long way and then oftentimes 
like okay well that's not the 

554
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:56,900
same type of thing that we used 
to do and they're just looking 

555
00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:01,000
for someone who wants a job e. 
Yeah, exactly. 

556
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:03,100
That's okay. 
They'll find somebody there's 

557
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:04,600
lots of people out there. 
Yeah. 

558
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:07,300
Oh well thanks. 
So of course, will include all 

559
00:29:07,300 --> 00:29:10,600
of the links for business of 
design and everything in our 

560
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,800
show notes. 
And that's obviously a great 

561
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,900
place for designers to go to 
help Elevate their business. 

562
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:21,400
Any other advice you have for 
designers or people thinking 

563
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,600
about the career is it 
worthwhile career obviously? 

564
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,000
You think it's absolutely a 
worthwhile career. 

565
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:35,300
I would say get yourself with a 
tribe of people who are taking 

566
00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:37,700
it very seriously and who are 
making money. 

567
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,500
You know, although I love my 
designer Posse I call them M 

568
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:43,600
they are. 
They're the worst business 

569
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,000
owners and we just spend our 
time. 

570
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,700
Laughing about the kind of stuff
that happens to them when they 

571
00:29:48,700 --> 00:29:51,600
don't get paid. 
And it's just oh my gosh, it's 

572
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,800
super fun, but not helpful. 
So get yourself a tribe that is 

573
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,100
very serious about design and 
stick with the winners. 

574
00:29:59,100 --> 00:30:01,400
I mean, I know that's terrible 
because it makes it sound like 

575
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,600
someone's a loser. 
But truthfully stick with the 

576
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,000
winners. 
Yeah well that's great advice. 

577
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,100
Thank you so much Kimberly for 
coming on the podcast today. 

578
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,800
It's been great talking with 
you, so And congratulations on 

579
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,400
your podcast, in your mentorship
program and everything. 

580
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,300
Yeah, I know you've worked 
really hard to make it all 

581
00:30:17,300 --> 00:30:18,600
happen. 
Thank you. 

582
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,400
Yeah. 
And I mean this well I'll see 

583
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:22,300
you. 
I don't know what I'm going to 

584
00:30:22,300 --> 00:30:24,800
see you, but I'll see you soon. 
Yeah, for sure, yeah. 

585
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,000
All right, sweetie. 
See you soon? 

586
00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:40,700
Oh, my goodness, such a treat to
have Kimberly on this podcast. 

587
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,700
Such a inspiration for me. 
And definitely one of my 

588
00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:47,300
mentors. 
So it's great to have her here 

589
00:30:47,300 --> 00:30:50,900
so we can hear about her story 
and what got her into interior 

590
00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:55,200
design and how figuring out her 
own systems and procedures for 

591
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,500
her company, has helped 
influence hundreds and thousands

592
00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:02,900
of designers around the world to
have more successful businesses 

593
00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:06,100
as well as more satisfying lives
as designers. 

594
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,100
So, thank you, Kimberly, for 
that. 

595
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:11,500
And of course you can find all 
of her information in our show 

596
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:15,300
notes as well as a link to the 
business of design online 

597
00:31:15,300 --> 00:31:17,400
platform. 
If that's something that you're 

598
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,800
interested in, go ahead and sign
up for that there. 

599
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,100
Don't forget to leave me a 
rating and review. 

600
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,300
I love to hear what you're 
enjoying about the podcast and 

601
00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:29,300
you can connect with me on 
Instagram at our Ward design. 

602
00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:32,800
So stay tuned next week, we've 
got another great episode for 

603
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,100
you, and until then stay 
creative. 

604
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,200
Active. 
Thanks for listening. 

605
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,000
If you loved this episode, 
please leave a rating and a 

606
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,900
review. 
This helps me reach other 

607
00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:44,900
curious. 
Creatives. 

608
00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:48,600
Like you, if you have a topic 
request or would like to contact

609
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,300
me, simply head over to my 
website, our Ward design.com or 

610
00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:57,300
email me at podcast at our Ward 
design.com.