1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,560 Hey there, it's Rebecca. Before we dive in today's 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,320 episode, I have something exciting to share. 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,000 If you've been dreaming about starting your own interior 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,840 design business, but you're feeling stuck on what to do 5 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,800 first, how to set things up legally, or even how to find 6 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,400 your first clients, this is your sign. 7 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,200 Doors are now open for my Launch Your Business Boot Camp, an 8 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,360 week step by step program designed to help you build a 9 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,200 profitable design business from the ground up. 10 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,520 You'll learn everything from clarifying your brand and 11 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,400 setting up your systems, to getting your contracts and 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,440 finances in order so you can start your business with 13 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,840 confidence and direction. I'll be walking alongside you 14 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,680 the whole way, mentoring you through each step so you're 15 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:45,760 never left wondering what to do next. 16 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,000 And the best part? You'll be part of a community of 17 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,320 other designers doing it right alongside you. 18 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:55,760 So if you're ready to stop dreaming and finally launch your 19 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,640 design business the right way, go sign up now at our Ward 20 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,640 design.com. You'll also find the link in the 21 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,080 show notes. All right, let's get into 22 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,360 today's episode. You're now listening to Design 23 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,440 Curious, a place where you, creative one, are here to learn 24 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,520 about what it really is like to be an interior designer. 25 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:19,760 And I'm your host and mentor, Rebecca Ward. 26 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,480 If you're worried about how to succeed in a creative career, if 27 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,360 you're ready to learn your next steps to become an interior 28 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,720 designer, and if you want the satisfaction of doing something 29 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,120 you love every day, you are in the right place. 30 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,560 Grab a coffee, a notebook, and let's dig into today's episode. 31 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,320 Hello, and welcome to episode 168 of Design Curious Podcast. 32 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,680 I'm your host and mentor, Rebecca Ward. 33 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,320 Today on the podcast, I have guest Katie Malik. 34 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,440 Katie is an award-winning interior designer and founder of 35 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,600 Interior Design Deconstructed with a Master's in Philosophy 36 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,760 from Cambridge University and training in house whispering, a 37 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,920 unique psychotherapy of space combined with advanced Feng 38 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,520 Shui, Katie transforms both homes and businesses. 39 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,960 She's a triple winner at the UK Property Awards with 13 plus 40 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,880 industry accolades, named among the top 100 architects and 41 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,960 designers worldwide, and featured in Architectural 42 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,640 Digest, Grand Designs magazines and The Times. 43 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:32,600 As a BIID mentor and educator with over five years of teaching 44 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,600 experience, Katie empowers emerging designers while 45 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,520 creating harmonious spaces that prioritize health, happiness, 46 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,800 ethics and aesthetics. So listen in. 47 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,160 I think you will enjoy what Katie has to say. 48 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,840 We were very much aligned in our passion for mentorship of up and 49 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,680 coming designers. So I think you'll enjoy this 50 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,680 conversation today. Hi Katie, welcome to Design 51 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:56,640 Curious podcast. It's great to have you here 52 00:02:56,640 --> 00:02:58,840 today. Hi, Rebecca. 53 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,480 Thank you so much for having me. It's a great pleasure to be one 54 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,520 of your guests. Yeah, I'm looking forward to our 55 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:10,360 conversation and I would love to just learn a little bit more 56 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,840 about you. So why don't you tell us how you 57 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,320 found a path into interior design? 58 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,360 I think it's a great question. There are so many interior 59 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,880 designers who came from a different background, which is 60 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:30,320 always so interesting and inspiring to hear for aspiring 61 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,680 interior designers who are looking to change their careers 62 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:39,680 and pivot into interior design. So before I became an interior 63 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,480 designer, I was a teacher. I taught mainly English for 64 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:48,280 academic purposes. My job was primarily in 65 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,120 education and private education and higher education. 66 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,200 And at some point I realized that if I continued on this 67 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,320 path, if I continued in academia, if I continued with my 68 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,320 PHDI would end up being miserable. 69 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,960 And I hope something was missing and I didn't quite know what it 70 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,560 was. So just to give a little bit of 71 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:16,279 a background, before I studied linguistics and education and 72 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,000 teaching, I actually wanted to study architecture. 73 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:25,120 So it was always there with me. And during one of our dinners 74 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,800 with my friend, she kind of opened me up to this whole idea 75 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,280 of why don't you just do something that you always wanted 76 00:04:31,280 --> 00:04:34,240 but never had a chance to for whatever reason, You know, you 77 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,360 kind of took a different path. And that's when I thought, OK, 78 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,000 I'm going to see if interior design is for me. 79 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:45,800 So I signed up to a course, like an 8 weeks course initially just 80 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,280 to see if that was suitable. And I think it's a great way to 81 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:53,040 kind of test it if especially if someone is thinking of changing 82 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,480 their careers into interior design, it's a great, great way 83 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,680 to test. It was a clear yes. 84 00:04:58,840 --> 00:05:03,760 So I continued my education, went to Chelsea College of Art, 85 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,160 which is amazing, and also National Design Academy here. 86 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,240 Now getting into the business measure design is a whole other 87 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:14,200 thing. I had worked for studios in 88 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:19,120 London where I learned so much. But the transition was, well, I 89 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,920 would say taking into consideration the time, it was 90 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:28,120 very short, but what I then had to deal with that what came with 91 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,520 running your own business is, is another story that we can of 92 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,760 course explore, but that's kind of a story in a nutshell. 93 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:38,240 OK, very interesting. Yeah. 94 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:44,640 And I think that education, the career of education is very 95 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,960 different from entrepreneurship. So then let's go there with like 96 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,520 learning to do business in interior design. 97 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,800 I mean, because it's a lot of people are like, yes, I'm 98 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,000 following my passion. I want to be a designer, but 99 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,280 most of the time that also requires you to be an 100 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:04,880 entrepreneur. And so that doesn't always come 101 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,640 like that's not the same passion, you know, like people 102 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,480 are not always passionate about building a business and there's 103 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,200 a lot of things to learn along the way. 104 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,000 So why don't you talk a little bit about that path that are a 105 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,880 struggle, OK? Yeah, it's a very good question. 106 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:26,040 And yeah, definitely, I think we need to talk more about this 107 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,080 because, yeah, following your passion is one thing. 108 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:32,000 Building a business is completely different. 109 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,720 So I went into this with my eyes completely closed, completely 110 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,760 blinded by my passion, right? All I wanted to do was enter 111 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,920 your design, and I wanted to do it my way. 112 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:47,000 And I had these visions about how it's going to look like, but 113 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,720 then it just hit me like a ton of bricks that I was completely 114 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,600 unprepared and unequipped to run a business. 115 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,720 So I needed to learn how to do it really, really fast. 116 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,560 I remember this was like well over 10 years ago. 117 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,920 There weren't that many resources on running a business 118 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,200 and interior design, at least here in the UK. 119 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,080 And I remember I used to actually do a lot of research 120 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,880 and try to contact more interior designers from the States 121 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,800 because it seemed like people were a little bit more open to 122 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,320 talk about this, whereas in the UK was still a little bit more 123 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,320 closed up. So it was a lot more difficult. 124 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:29,160 But what I've done, because I realized very quickly, OK, I 125 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,720 have no business skills. I can read books, I can ask 126 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,840 people, but I don't have them. So what I started doing, I 127 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,360 invested in coaching, I invested in business networking. 128 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,040 I invested in learning the business skills from others as 129 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:49,440 quickly as I could so I would make fewer mistakes possible. 130 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,680 But I always had this in poster syndrome. 131 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,120 Love it. Oh my God, I didn't go to 132 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,920 Business School. I don't have the business 133 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,280 skills. It's my first place. 134 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,480 What is this like? I just wanted to be an interior 135 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,680 designer. I didn't sign up for this. 136 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,920 Yeah, it was like I didn't sign up for that. 137 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:10,680 Hold on a second. No, I just wanted to design why? 138 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:11,600 Why this? Why that? 139 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:16,280 But I did start with a business, foreign Tier Designers, which 140 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,520 was an additional course at Chelsea College of Art organized 141 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,840 years ago, which was a great like a top up course, but it was 142 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,600 just an introduction. What really helped me gain those 143 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:32,440 business skills was coaching. That was one thing, business 144 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:38,039 networking and then specifically business training with more 145 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:41,960 private coaches and private training rather than going back 146 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,400 to the Business School and learning all these things, Yeah. 147 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:48,400 Okay. And in your bio you talk about 148 00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:53,280 house whispering like a psychotherapy of phase combined 149 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,520 with advanced Fung shui. So tell us about that kind of 150 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,920 training. And I, I think that's a niche 151 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,080 that not a lot of people are in. So it's definitely something 152 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,000 that you specialize in. So explain a little more about 153 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:07,920 what that is. Right. 154 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:12,360 So yeah, it's a fascinating topic and a fascinating 155 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,040 discipline. So house whispering, as it 156 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:21,080 stands, was coined by a former architect, Christian Kiriakou. 157 00:09:21,560 --> 00:09:26,440 So he resides here in the UK and he runs the Academy where he 158 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,320 trains others in house whispering. 159 00:09:28,680 --> 00:09:32,600 And I fell into this because I was always interested in energy 160 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,360 work and soft development. I'm not even sure how I heard of 161 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,560 him. I have no idea how it happened, 162 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:39,800 but it happened. Yeah. 163 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:41,880 And this was kind of around Kovid. 164 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:46,640 So I thought, what a great way to gain more skills and fill my 165 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:47,280 time. Right? 166 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:47,920 Yeah. Yeah. 167 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,720 So that was absolutely brilliant. 168 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,800 So house whispering is a very deep psychotherapy of space. 169 00:09:55,200 --> 00:10:01,400 So what a train house whisperer would do is basically work with 170 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,160 the energy of the space, the energy of a client as well to 171 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:11,880 underpin the reasons why things don't work harmoniously in their 172 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,760 home. And this could range from all 173 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:22,640 sorts of things such as ghosts as things that break constantly. 174 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,720 It will also look at like sleep, maybe disruptions or any 175 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,960 disruptions are happening within the space. 176 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,640 Also can help with when people are applying for planning 177 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,800 permissions that are constantly being rejected for no reason or 178 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,600 struggling to sell their home or move out or even move in. 179 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,960 I mean, you name it. Or they bought a plot, they want 180 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:48,520 to build a house and things just start going wrong. 181 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:53,600 And we've heard of these things. So house whispering tackles 182 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:58,400 these challenges, but in my course I was the only interior 183 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,680 designer. A lot of the other participants 184 00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:04,280 and students were actually therapists. 185 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,600 OK. So they do that as a 186 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:11,120 supplementary course to their practice because they recognize 187 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,200 that a lot of what their clients struggle with it is kind of 188 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,880 attached to their home. Whereas I thought, Oh my God, 189 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,680 what a great skill to have as an interior designer if someone is 190 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:24,560 particularly struggling with certain aspects. 191 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,880 And I've actually managed to of course, practice the skills with 192 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,840 actually one of the current projects. 193 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,640 At that time, we were struggling to obtain actually planning 194 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,440 permission for certain alterations and a graded listed 195 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,760 building. So I run a session with my 196 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,080 client. Her husband was extremely 197 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,920 negative about it. It's like, I don't believe this, 198 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,600 OK, you do this. I don't care. 199 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,160 I don't believe in that. This is some woo woo stuff. 200 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:53,680 And actually once we did the session and we've done all the 201 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:57,280 clearing and we've found the root cause of a problem, 2 weeks 202 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,480 later the planning permission did come. 203 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,680 So it is quite a powerful thing to do. 204 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,200 It's very complex so I'm not going to go. 205 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:07,320 Sure. Yeah, yeah. 206 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,280 Depending on depending on what the challenge might be, we might 207 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,600 be getting different techniques to work with the energy of the 208 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,200 space and with the energetic architecture of the space. 209 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:22,240 But it always boils down to the house mirrors us. 210 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,720 Wow, what a unique niche to have and I'm sure I don't know anyone 211 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,440 with that skill here in California. 212 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:36,360 So yeah, really gives you an edge on that and I think that 213 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,960 would be really interesting Ave. to explore. 214 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,320 So how long have you had your business then? 215 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:44,400 Have you been on? Yeah. 216 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:50,720 Yeah, I started in 2014, OK, So yeah, 11 years for my first 217 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,120 projects because I was still quite an experience. 218 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,120 I felt like I didn't have enough experience. 219 00:12:55,160 --> 00:13:00,000 I teamed up with designers who I met in the studio where I worked 220 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,280 because they were freelancers there for just basically 221 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,880 subcontracted for specific projects and I asked them for 222 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,080 help and that was the best decision. 223 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,360 So I also always encourage designers who are basically 224 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,480 transitioning from something or they don't have a lot of 225 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,320 experience, but they land a big renovation project to just team 226 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,200 up with more experienced designers just to ensure that 227 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,960 they won't make big mistakes in the process and the project goes 228 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:27,880 smoothly. So that's what I did. 229 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,240 And then I grew very slowly. I was actually listening to your 230 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,800 previous episode that September and this whole beard until 231 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,960 December. But it was really interesting to 232 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:38,800 hear. I can't remember the name of the 233 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,320 designer, but she was talking about how she grew so fast and 234 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:48,280 then she became this manager and, and it was so overwhelming. 235 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,720 And, and I think that I always wanted to keep my practice very 236 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,480 small because at some point I had a few people and it was 237 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,960 really overwhelming. So now I keep it to the bare 238 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,720 minimum of like four of us. Like overall, I can't cope with 239 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,840 more. And I do admire people who have 240 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:09,080 20 plus and 40 plus designers under them. 241 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,120 But I kind of thought like this is not for me. 242 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,320 I don't want to manage the dynamics. 243 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,640 I don't want to be the manager. I still want to design. 244 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:19,960 I want to be involved in every single project. 245 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,000 I want to do a great job. So yeah. 246 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,280 Yeah, yeah. Now, that's an important thing 247 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:30,160 to know too, because it takes you to a whole nother level of 248 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:35,720 being a business owner is to manage a larger group and, and 249 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,440 to know that you're like, I, I love being in the smaller phase. 250 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:43,960 And that's great to like just be able to hone in on that aspect 251 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,000 of it and not have to build an empire necessarily. 252 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,640 So yeah. Yeah, I think it's a choice and 253 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:53,440 I think this is something that I also learned at the business 254 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,000 training course, one of the first ones that I took that was 255 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,240 specifically organized for interior designers. 256 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,480 And I always encourage designers like if you want to learn 257 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,080 business, learn from other interior designers. 258 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,800 Go find your coach, find a person you resonate with, take 259 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,640 their courses, take the coaching because they will know, they 260 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:17,480 will have had the experience of first hand of issues, challenges 261 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,320 and everything right. If you go to just a business 262 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,400 coach that deals with non designers, right, or helps just 263 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,440 businesses in general, yes, you will learn a lot, but they will 264 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,840 never quite understand understand you and your 265 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:32,920 challenges like another interior designer. 266 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,160 So, yeah, coming back to to what I just started saying, our 267 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:41,760 trainer said you have to decide how big you want to grow because 268 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,160 that will drive your business, that will drive your marketing, 269 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,920 that will drive your branding. And big businesses are not for 270 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,720 everybody, but small businesses are not enough for for everybody 271 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,640 either. So you have to kind of decide 272 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,120 how big you want to be and this will help you drive the 273 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,640 business, which I thought I remembered, which I thought was 274 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,880 such a valuable tip to give to aspiring designers. 275 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,600 Yes, yeah, no, that's really good. 276 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:13,120 So you are in the UK, Did you find a coach who is in the UK or 277 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:15,480 did you go like America or Canada? 278 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,480 Or did it matter to you when you were trying to learn? 279 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,640 No, it didn't matter what mattered more where the people 280 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,040 and what they could offer. So I actually had a number of 281 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:35,280 coaches and some of them were UK based and some of them were UK 282 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,440 based but not English. They had international 283 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,960 experience. They were immigrants like me. 284 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,640 Then I had a coach from the USI had a coach from Canada. 285 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:50,040 So I think actually having a a variety of people, everybody 286 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,440 will bring something else to the table and we'll have a slightly 287 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,720 different flavor. Things are maybe run differently 288 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,920 in the States or in Canada than here or to Europe, definitely. 289 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,680 But at the same time, everyone will bring something valuable 290 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,160 from from that sector or from that country. 291 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,760 So I think it's actually really good to train internationally 292 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,240 because it opens the mindset someone can know something that 293 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,720 this or something is done in a way in a in a country that 294 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:24,319 actually no one knows about it in in the UK. 295 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,760 And actually maybe they're doing things better, especially like I 296 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,560 mentioned the beginning of our chat, that initially when I 297 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,080 started, there were very, very few resources and no one really 298 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:36,720 wanted to share. In the UK. 299 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:40,400 I used to basically just ask designers from the States, and 300 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,240 again, they were very giving and very open about what I should 301 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,760 do, how they would approach it. So I really valued that and I 302 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,560 think there's no harm in asking and learning from people across 303 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,520 the pond. Yeah, yeah. 304 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,240 Because design is design, and I think getting that different 305 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,720 perspective is good as well. Like just to see how other 306 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:05,120 people are doing it outside of your circle is beneficial. 307 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:07,920 Yeah, for sure. Definitely yes. 308 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,800 Yeah. So over the past 1011 or so 309 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,920 years, what are some other maybe challenges or things that you've 310 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,120 learned that you'd love to share with someone who's just thinking 311 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:25,120 about starting out? That's a very, very good 312 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:27,720 question. A lot of challenges. 313 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:33,640 I would say definitely start with your eyes wide open. 314 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:39,160 So if you want to start your business, do go and learn some 315 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,680 business skills and get yourself a coach or at least enroll in 316 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,640 courses. If you can't afford a coach, 317 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,320 enroll in courses and Start learning about business because 318 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,240 it's not going to be just beautiful designs. 319 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:58,240 Then another step is scaling. So when you scale your business, 320 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:03,360 you need to have a very clear goal and you need to know when 321 00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:06,280 to hire, but also what I've learned, you need to know when 322 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:10,320 to fire. And sometimes holding on to 323 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,640 again, people just because you like somebody because they were 324 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:19,280 maybe your first hire or you have that history with them is 325 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,240 not going to help you scaled your business. 326 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,240 So what I've learned is that, and, and I think it might happen 327 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,080 to a lot of creatives that first and foremost, if you run your 328 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,400 business, you're a business owner, you're an entrepreneur. 329 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,080 And as much as you love design, it doesn't really matter 330 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,480 unfortunately, because your business comes first, right? 331 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,320 So you might like people, design is important, of course, but 332 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,080 ultimately you run your business. 333 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,440 So I would say that's, that was like one of the biggest 334 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,400 challenges for me. And I think it's very important 335 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,040 to say that. And also if you do want to scale 336 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,240 up, yes, you can't be doing this on your own. 337 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,400 So you need to build team, you need to be surrounding yourself 338 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,640 with people who are suitable for your goals. 339 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,600 So, and this is again something that I've done. 340 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:10,200 And it's not necessarily always a bad thing, but I think when 341 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,920 you I made like kind of like a full circle because initially I 342 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:18,440 was working with more experienced senior designers and 343 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,320 then I kind of went to hire somebody who I thought I could 344 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,760 mold. And so I think both of those 345 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,920 avenues can work. But again, you need to be honest 346 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,800 with yourself. Like what is that I actually 347 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:38,440 need and build from that rather than, oh, I can afford to hire a 348 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,200 junior. I can't afford to buy to hire a 349 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,760 senior. So I'm going to, I'm going to go 350 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,440 with a junior, but you have to realize that getting a junior is 351 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,960 going to be very time consuming and it's going to take a very 352 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,960 long time until you can actually offload some of your work, 353 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,400 right? And it might be bright and they 354 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,480 might, you know, they might pick up very soon, but it still will 355 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,320 be a lot longer and more challenging than working with a 356 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:07,960 senior interior designer. So, yeah, just working this out. 357 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,120 And that depends 100% on the outcome and where you want to 358 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:15,640 drive your business to. But I would say working with 359 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,160 more experienced people will drive your business higher. 360 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,280 And then you can, of course, build the whole, the pyramid, 361 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,840 the foundation with juniors is not an issue. 362 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,560 But being just mindful of that and being aware, I would also 363 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:36,240 say the one thing that I always talk about that is so important 364 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:41,760 and that I think made a huge impact on my business are the 365 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,800 systems. So all the internal systems. 366 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,760 And again, some creatives can just go with the flow. 367 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,680 But I think if you have internal systems, so if you have all the 368 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,080 templates ready for your business, then it's just going 369 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,880 to be so much less stressful for you. 370 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:05,160 So having that systemized and internal operations is 371 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,760 paramount. Yeah, to the. 372 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,640 Success of the business and to your own mind, to yourself, like 373 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,560 you owe it to yourself because otherwise you'll be like, Oh my 374 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,760 God, what do I do now? Oh my God, where do I take this? 375 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,440 So if you kind of like prep everything, just if you would 376 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,200 like work on a concept design before you show it to a client, 377 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,400 then I think if you approach your business from the same 378 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,800 angle, then you're you're setting yourself up for success, 379 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,440 not for failure. Yeah, that's really good 380 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,000 insight. And especially I love the part 381 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,720 about, you know maybe what you need is a senior designer first 382 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:47,160 because you are going to get so much more out of that more 383 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,600 experienced designer and it's going to advance your business 384 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,600 and so much faster than spending time training an entry level 385 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,720 person. So that's good insight. 386 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,520 And then yeah, the systems just to help keep you from overwhelm, 387 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,040 like if you can set those up early for sure. 388 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:09,040 That's great advice. Well, you have a lot of great 389 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,040 insight and I know you have a podcast as well. 390 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,200 Would you like to shout it out on here so we can go check it 391 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:17,560 of? Course, Yeah, yeah. 392 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,760 So it's interior design deconstructed. 393 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:25,400 And the focus is basically to empower aspiring into your 394 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,240 designers in their business skills. 395 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:33,160 So I invite interior designers and I also invite business 396 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,640 specialists because I think there's so much to learn from 397 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,200 them as well. And there's so much to know. 398 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,960 I learned from this podcast by inviting these people. 399 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,400 I mean, I work with some of them, but some of them I haven't 400 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,480 worked yet. And I'm just so curious to learn 401 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,000 from them how else we can enhance business, right? 402 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:56,000 I mean, recently. So it was a September episode. 403 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,800 We had Doctor Vaniel Yavar as one of the podcast guests, and 404 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,320 she talked about how her business that she cofounded 405 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:12,200 helps businesses and brands really understand their idea. 406 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,240 Your client, right? I mean, ideal client is a very 407 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,440 big thing in interior design as well. 408 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,040 But she gave a beautiful, a lot of beautiful explanations about 409 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,080 how they do that and what to look out for. 410 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,360 So, yeah, so this is what my podcast does. 411 00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:31,200 I try to invite business specialists and other interior 412 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,560 designers just to share the insights as well and get tips 413 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,840 and inspiration maybe as well for business. 414 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,400 Yeah, and probably pulling some of your education background of 415 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:49,400 just wanting to inform others and help them too, Yeah, to 416 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,280 learn to do better and everything. 417 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,960 Yes, yes, yes. That's the point of of the 418 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,120 podcast Realist. That's the main focus. 419 00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:59,120 And and I wish, you know, when I was starting, there's so much 420 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:03,280 out there like 11 years ago. I mean, if someone really wants 421 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,880 to, there are resources and there's lots of support. 422 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,480 And what's beautiful is that a lot of designers offer this 423 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,920 coaching now because they have this. 424 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:18,040 I feel they want to give back and it's just amazing. 425 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,080 That's why I said like if you have a choice between a more 426 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,680 generalist coach and a business coach and then interior design 427 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,680 coach, so someone who actually has taken their experience and 428 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,080 is willing to share, then that's worth so much more because it's 429 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,280 very specialist and they can really resonate with with your 430 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,560 challenges and and help guide you. 431 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:44,600 So I think it's such a beautiful thing that people started doing 432 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,720 these days of the podcast, like your Venkat coaching. 433 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,000 So it's amazing. Yeah, Yeah. 434 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,080 Well, you too, Katie. So where can people find you if 435 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,680 they want to reach out and ask you more about anything that you 436 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,800 talked about today? So yeah, so if anybody would 437 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,520 like to know about house whispering that they should 438 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,200 definitely head to katiemalik.co.uk and for 439 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,960 basically for training and business support and podcast, 440 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,560 it's Interior Design deconstructed.co.uk and podcast 441 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,720 is the same as Interior Design Deconstructed on Spotify. 442 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,320 And I think now on Apple. I haven't actually checked 443 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,560 whether it's it's connected, but I tried to connect the 2. 444 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,560 So that's how they can find me. Great. 445 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,360 OK, we'll put those links in the show notes too, in case 446 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:37,200 someone's striving and listening to this so they don't have to 447 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,720 take notes. Well, it's been a pleasure to 448 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,960 talk with you, Katie. Thank you for coming on and 449 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,360 sharing and just paying it forward to the next generation 450 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:47,520 of designers. So. 451 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,640 Thank you so much, Rebecca, for having me and for also for your 452 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,240 podcast and for what you're doing. 453 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,640 I think it's really amazing and we should all support younger 454 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,360 aspiring interior designers and younger. 455 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,600 I would say younger. It's not about the age, it's 456 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,280 just aspiration. Yes, and. 457 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,400 Younger in the career, yeah. Younger in the career, yes. 458 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,680 Yeah. All right. 459 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,120 Well, thank you. It's so good to talk with you. 460 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:11,640 Thank. You. 461 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,720 So I really enjoyed talking with Katie and I had the opportunity 462 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,280 of returning the Favorite and being on her podcast, Interior 463 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,960 Design Deconstructed. You can go ahead and check that 464 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:31,480 out. We'll have a link for it in the 465 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,240 show notes. And that is all I have today. 466 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,040 I hope you enjoyed this episode. We are coming up to the end of 467 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,680 the year and also it is December, which means that boot 468 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,320 camp registration is open for us to get started in January. 469 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,080 So if you're looking to start your business in interior design 470 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,440 in 2026, then sign up for Launch Your Business Boot Camp. 471 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,600 So that's all I have for you this week. 472 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,440 Next week we'll have another great episode and until then, 473 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,040 stay creative. Thanks for listening. 474 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,400 If you love this episode, please leave a rating and a review. 475 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,400 This helps me reach other curious creatives like you. 476 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,560 If you have a topic request or would like to contact me, simply 477 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:19,520 head over to my website arworddesign.com or e-mail me at 478 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,200 podcast@arworddesign.com.