1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,440 Red flag draw always thinks like, well, I could have done it 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:07,920 myself, but I didn't have time or I know that so and so could 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:12,080 do it for a cheaper rate, but I really just wanted to, I mean, 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,120 these are all, it's like out the gate, they're not valuing what 5 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:17,360 you're bringing to the table. You can still work with these 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,360 people, but we need to be mindful of this because these 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,120 are also going to be people that are likely going to need more 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:25,000 hand holding. They're going to ask more 9 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,040 questions. They're going to be harder on 10 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,280 you with boundaries and you're going to have to really set 11 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,560 those out gate. So the people that are going to 12 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,480 push back some deposits or they're going to say, no, I 13 00:00:35,480 --> 00:00:38,640 don't think it's fair. They're going to want discounts. 14 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,960 They're going to want to finalize pricing at a later 15 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,120 date. They're going to ignore your 16 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:49,200 scope in general or timelines. And these are, I just think that 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,560 there's a good gut check on like sometimes how someone treats the 18 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,960 money at the beginning is how they're going to treat it the 19 00:00:55,960 --> 00:01:00,960 whole way through. You're now listening to Design 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,080 Curious, a place where you, Creative One, are here to learn 21 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,000 about what it really is like to be an interior designer, and I'm 22 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,360 your host and mentor, Rebecca Ward. 23 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:16,080 If you're worried about how to succeed in a creative career, if 24 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,920 you're ready to learn your next steps to become an interior 25 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,320 designer, and if you want the satisfaction of doing something 26 00:01:23,320 --> 00:01:26,760 you love every day, you are in the right place. 27 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,160 Grab a coffee, a notebook, and let's dig into today's episode. 28 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:37,160 Hello, and welcome to episode 192 of Design Curious podcast. 29 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,960 Today on the podcast, we have Lauren NIST. 30 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,240 She is one of the founding partners of Magnolia and Maine, 31 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,120 which is a virtual bookkeeping and advisory firm that helps 32 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,720 small business owners understand their numbers with clarity and 33 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,960 confidence. She has spent years supporting 34 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,680 creative and service based businesses behind the scenes and 35 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,400 has watched companies grow from 900K to more than 3,000,000 36 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,760 simply by tightening their pricing, billing systems and job 37 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,320 costing. Lauren brings a warm, friendly, 38 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,760 judgement free approach to finances, making the money side 39 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,480 feel clear and doable, so owners can bill ahead, protect their 40 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,120 cash flow and make confident decisions that support the 41 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,520 business they want to build. I really enjoyed speaking with 42 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,400 Lauren. I love her approach to 43 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,400 accounting. It's really different. 44 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,920 So let's talk to with her and you can discover that too. 45 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,920 Hi, Lauren, welcome to Design Curious Podcast. 46 00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:39,440 It's great to have you on today. Thank you so much for having me, 47 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,280 I'm so excited. Yeah, very important topic 48 00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:47,440 talking about accounting for creatives, which is always a 49 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,360 challenge I think. But first. 50 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,480 Let's start with how you got into working with creatives and 51 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,400 doing accounting with them in the first place. 52 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:58,800 Yeah. So I actually, I was a psych 53 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,960 major, which is so random. And then I started working for 54 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,560 just a remodeling and design firm, just doing day-to-day 55 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,280 bookkeeping and that kind of grew. 56 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,400 And then when I left, I started doing some. 57 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:15,360 I was probably there, it was over a decade and yeah, yeah, 58 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,280 this is definitely this realm is my favorite. 59 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,080 But when I left, I wanted to kind of grow and work with a lot 60 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,640 more different types of small businesses. 61 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:28,080 And so I started working for a virtual firm, which put me 62 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,880 working with everything from jewelry designers to more 63 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,200 interior designers to concierge like physicians and stuff. 64 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,400 And so then that firm continued to grow and do great things. 65 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,800 And I think then I just kind of had the moment of like, I really 66 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,920 just want to get back to the small group again and just the 67 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,400 beginners and the just the small businesses. 68 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,600 And so my business partner and I broke out and we start going 69 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,880 through. Wow. 70 00:03:55,960 --> 00:04:00,080 And how many years ago was that? So we just started our own firm 71 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,520 this last year, so 25, yeah. Nice, great, good. 72 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:08,600 And so your focus now is for the interior design industry? 73 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,520 So interior design definitely plays a hand in what we do. 74 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:16,640 Currently, I have over 30 clients on a virtual level and 75 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,240 that's split between me and my business partner. 76 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,760 And then we have like, you know, a couple of employees that work 77 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:26,200 with us too. But interior design, small 78 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,840 contractors, just the labor field in general to all trades 79 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:33,680 and stuff are my favorite because they fall into a weird 80 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,520 kind of place where they need that help, yet they're not 81 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,240 really ready to bring on anybody in house. 82 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,440 And so how we can help them get that kind of financial, like 83 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,200 just the financial foundation kind of established. 84 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:50,120 And so they have a process really. 85 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:51,360 That's great. Yeah. 86 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,360 Because a lot of people starting out don't know how to create a 87 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,280 process or what they need to do yet, right? 88 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,320 Yeah. I cannot tell you how often 89 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,080 people say, oh, I'm not good at numbers or, or this is not, you 90 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,600 know, I'm, I'm terrible at this. And it's like, that's it. 91 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,920 It's not your lane. You nobody expects you to be 92 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,400 good at this. This isn't what you started your 93 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:12,680 business for. It just happens to be a piece of 94 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,120 your business. And so, you know, you have kind 95 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,960 of have to get yourself in touch with the people that that is 96 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,720 their lane and then figure out how to make that part of your 97 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,240 business function for you and what works best for you in that 98 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,880 situation. A lot of that. 99 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:32,360 So you have a lot of experience working with creatives, and so 100 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:36,640 why don't we get into some of the more common money mistakes 101 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,160 that creatives can make that might hurt their cash flow and 102 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,280 just get them off on the wrong foot? 103 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,080 Yeah. So I think for me, one of the 104 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,760 things that I love working with creatives probably the most is 105 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,320 because they think in kind of the vision headspace. 106 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,360 So like they're constantly thinking in the place of like 107 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,520 finished spaces and the experience and how things are 108 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,800 going to feel when it's done. And but the challenge is that 109 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,880 they often treat money is it's a result of the work versus 110 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,360 something that needs structure along the way. 111 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:14,560 And so with that mindset, you're already setting yourself up to 112 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,600 complicate things and little things like money, having no 113 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,080 order in the way which you handle it, you just, they think 114 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,720 I'll get paid, we'll pay things as they go. 115 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,240 And we just kind of hope that there's money left at the end. 116 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,080 And so profit becomes more of a surprise versus a plan. 117 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:37,240 And then the assumption too that we're just floating the cost. 118 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,520 That's just part of the process. That's just how we're ordering, 119 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:45,440 sourcing, moving projects forward becomes what we think is 120 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,960 like the norm when in actuality you're functioning as a bank. 121 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,840 Another huge one for me would just be reactive discounting. 122 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:58,120 I think anytime to you when a client gets hesitant or you're 123 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,040 tight on cash, you feel that need to kind of drop things to 124 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,600 keep things moving and discount to keep things moving. 125 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,560 But you don't have any idea at that point what your margin even 126 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:10,520 is to know how much you can cut back. 127 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:16,440 And so all of these things play into keeping us up at night and 128 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,640 making it to where we don't know where we stand with our own 129 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:21,960 money. So we don't even know what we 130 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,520 could take at the end of the day, which is a scary feeling 131 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:28,440 within itself. And so we shifted to that 132 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:32,200 mindset of, well, we just more work means more profit. 133 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,480 And so we just have to work more and work more and work more. 134 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,920 And then now we're in a cycle. Yeah. 135 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,120 So what would you recommend then for someone to start to build 136 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:46,160 kind of a framework around their finances and how they're 137 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,600 estimating jobs and billing and all of those things? 138 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,520 Like without having any background, probably in 139 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,440 accounting months, we were like, I don't know where to start, you 140 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:58,720 know? So do you have some guidelines 141 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,200 that you could share? Around us, yeah. 142 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:06,160 So I think the biggest thing is first we start looking at money 143 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,480 as you would have or any other project. 144 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,920 So there's an order to it. So we have to first bill ahead 145 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,680 for what we're whatever we're going to buy, source things like 146 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:16,760 that. We need to get a deposit that's 147 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:18,280 fair. We're not the bank. 148 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,800 There's lenders in place for a reason and it's not you. 149 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,400 And then the next thing is we pay the business for what the 150 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,760 business spent. What did those materials cost 151 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,840 you? What did that labor to outsource 152 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,360 getting something upholstered cost you? 153 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,640 What did what does all that look like get that paid and then 154 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,240 whatever's left at the end of the month, we have to be 155 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,600 intentional and how we split it. We have to give that money a 156 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,800 job. So even if you just go there's 157 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:50,400 our simple rule of like 3010 sixty and this doesn't have to 158 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,440 be exact. It's not going to be perfect for 159 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:53,800 everybody, but it's just a thought. 160 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,480 So if you get paid ahead, you pay the business. 161 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,080 With the business spent right there, we should have money 162 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,040 leftover. If there's not, we didn't do our 163 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,760 job right to begin with. But then with what's left, you 164 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,600 put aside 30% of that for your taxes. 165 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,480 You put aside 10% of that for just a buffer for the business, 166 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,600 and you pay yourself the remaining 60. 167 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,920 If that feels shaky or scary, we shifted around. 168 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,800 We maybe buffer 20%, pay ourselves 40. 169 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:29,440 But at this point, we've created a system that makes things start 170 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,280 becoming more sustainable. And then we can go from there 171 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,600 and then tweak it to fit the needs best. 172 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,640 But at least we have a game plan for the money, and that gives 173 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,200 you a starting point. Yeah, I like that you can kind 174 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,920 of put some percentages on there and it helps someone see that 175 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:52,560 like, OK, if I am getting 60% of what's leftover, is that paying 176 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:55,520 me enough, you know? Right, right. 177 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,440 And, and, and I mean, let's be honest, everybody, their first 178 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,760 couple jobs, that's the real gut kick. 179 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,960 Like that's the thing that hurts your feelings because you're 180 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,240 like, whoa, I didn't make anything or, and there's going 181 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,160 to be months where there's going to be nothing left. 182 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:13,560 You have nothing to split lit up and you know, and so that's 183 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:17,120 where then you start having to say, OK, well then now we have 184 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,280 to start looking at my job pricing and what are these jobs 185 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,720 costing me and that becomes the next layer really. 186 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,000 Yeah. So you touched on earlier how a 187 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:31,000 lot of times we'll respond emotionally to maybe a client 188 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,440 and you know, discount our services or things like that. 189 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,480 Do you have advice that you generally give out for maybe 190 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:41,680 designer specifically on how they should cost their jobs and 191 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,120 plan on making a profit and things like that? 192 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:47,000 Yeah. So I think #1 is billing ahead, 193 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,680 OK. I mean, I'm going to say out the 194 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:52,600 gate, you're not the bank. We don't need to think we're the 195 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,200 bank. We don't need to act as the 196 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,640 bank. And if you're fronting money, 197 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,760 you're putting yourself at a financial risk because here's 198 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,480 things we see that happens is that somebody says, Oh yeah, I'm 199 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:07,840 going to start this kitchen remodel and it's October. 200 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,760 And so you order all this stuff and then they're like, well, 201 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:13,360 let's wait because Thanksgiving's coming up. 202 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,960 And so I wanted and you're stuck holding something. 203 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,040 So if that happened and you would have built in for all of 204 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,000 that, whichever you might, no problem. 205 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,640 Well, while all that stuff can be delivered and sit in your 206 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,560 garage, so you're ready to go work again. 207 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:33,240 And so then that protects your risk of your your money because 208 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,680 if not, we would have put ourselves out for that. 209 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:39,560 And then we're at risk of that client ghosting us and we're out 210 00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:42,320 money on vendors, we're out money on sourcing things of that 211 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:47,360 nature. But then also by building ahead, 212 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,600 we keep the business, the project itself moving, but then 213 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,520 we start knowing is when we go back to earlier with like, OK, 214 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:57,480 well here's what we build and we're going to take away with 215 00:11:57,480 --> 00:11:58,920 the business need to pay all that stuff. 216 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,960 If there's differences there, if you didn't bill enough, it 217 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,280 should be immediate pause for you to say, let me check because 218 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,160 we know clients add things. That's one of the best ways in 219 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:13,800 which you add more money or can catch money, but you have to 220 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,040 make it to where it's part of your system to catch that. 221 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,720 So that becomes a red flag that you can catch, so we can start 222 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,360 spotting scope creep and stuff at that time. 223 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,000 And so for me, yeah, billing ahead, always a huge thing. 224 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,160 Creating a clear scope and giving that to your client. 225 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:34,640 It doesn't have to be fancy. It doesn't have to have this 226 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,120 pretty stuff. I know as creatives and as 227 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:42,240 designers, you're so caught up in that part, but at the end of 228 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,320 the day, it just needs to be clear so that when they do go 229 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,680 outside of that, you've left yourself a room to add in 230 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:52,520 something extra. And normally they're all for it 231 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,560 because by this point in the game, they're seeing your vision 232 00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:57,680 come to life and they want to expand on it. 233 00:12:57,680 --> 00:13:01,400 And what is another 5 or 10 grand more when they're already 234 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:07,560 out 5060, even 10 or 15, another two or three grand, you know, is 235 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:11,080 not that big of a deal to help as they're seeing this vision 236 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,880 come to life and upgrade this or whatever. 237 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,520 So we've set our, you know, belly head gives us the path to 238 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:23,840 be able to reduce that financial stress, but also it can create a 239 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,160 calm for us because we know where that job is at any given 240 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,880 time. It just and we can jump in and 241 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,640 stay on top of it a little bit better. 242 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,600 So yeah #1 for me is always going ahead. 243 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:41,680 And then two, it's staying on top of knowing where that 244 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:46,920 project is and when the job is done, reviewing it where you had 245 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:48,680 your wins and where you had your failures. 246 00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:51,520 And we're all going to have those that happens in every 247 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,200 industry. And so giving yourself these 248 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,960 tools, then we've created it to where we can, we can educate our 249 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:02,920 client to come the next time if they're hesitant on your 250 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:07,200 costing, we now instead of knocking ourselves on what we're 251 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,360 worth, we can defend it. Well, it's in my experience, 252 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,480 I've seen that this and this and this drawn about this and they 253 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,720 take longer to come in or they have or higher quality shelf 254 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,920 life or they, you know, whatever it might be. 255 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:26,680 So we've created a way to circumvent that situation with 256 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,320 the client. We're going to educate the 257 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,000 client versus emotionally respond in those moments. 258 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,720 Yeah. And I love that you talked about 259 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:41,040 reviewing the job at the end and, you know, making sure that 260 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,440 this was a job that you want to do again, like you want to ask 261 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,480 for a referral or, but maybe it's not like there probably are 262 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,800 some red flags that you would immediately say like, we don't 263 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,880 want this kind of job again. What would you identify as? 264 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,040 Maybe some of those red flags? Yeah. 265 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,480 So I think that there's red flags within your clients and 266 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,600 then there's red flags within your job types. 267 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,280 The biggest thing I tell people all the time in any of my 268 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,440 advisory sessions when it comes to clients is you have an ideal 269 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,400 client. The first thing you should do is 270 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:19,960 be OK with that idea and know that I think he's small business 271 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,520 owners and I deal with this exact same thing and I have not 272 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:27,640 even in the same industry. But you especially early on feel 273 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:32,120 this until like, who am I to decline a job like as if the job 274 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,160 gods are going to come down to be like you said, no, you are 275 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,680 too good for this. You shall not get any more. 276 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,200 And so we feel this need to like constantly be like, yes, I'll 277 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,000 take this, yes, I'll take this when they out the gate are doing 278 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,760 things that is setting the tone in a wrong way for you. 279 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:57,000 And so I think one knowing that it's OK to not take it is no, 280 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,440 it's a complete sentence. And I think that that is in 281 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,120 every aspect of your life, but especially in business, it's OK 282 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,440 not to take a job. And when your idol kind is going 283 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,760 to be somebody that's going to respect that you need to 284 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,200 deposit, they're going to be thoughtful about their 285 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,040 questions, but they're going to trust that you have an expertise 286 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,320 that you bring to the table here and not undermine that. 287 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,440 For me personally, red flags are always things like, well, I 288 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:25,960 could have done it myself, but I didn't have time, or I know that 289 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,600 so and so could do it for a cheaper rate, but I really just 290 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,160 wanted to, I mean, these are all, it's like out the gate, 291 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,560 they're not valuing what you're bringing to the table. 292 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,280 You can still work with these people, but we need to be 293 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,640 mindful of this because these are also going to be people that 294 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:43,560 are likely going to need more hand holding. 295 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,200 They're going to ask more questions. 296 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,840 They're going to be harder on you with boundaries and you're 297 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,320 going to have to really set those out the gate. 298 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,880 So the people that are going to push back some deposits, they're 299 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,200 they're going to say, no, I don't think it's fair. 300 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:59,000 They're going to want discounts. They're going to want to 301 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,120 finalize pricing at a later date. 302 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,319 They're going to ignore your scope in general or your 303 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,800 timelines. And these are, I just think that 304 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,160 there's a good gut check on like sometimes how someone treats the 305 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,599 money at the beginning is how they're going to treat it the 306 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:18,319 whole way through. That's a good point. 307 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,119 And at the end of the day, you love what you do. 308 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,079 That's the perk to doing what you love. 309 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:26,640 But you're here to make money. You're, you're also here to have 310 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,840 a life outside of your business. And so these boundaries, texting 311 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,680 you at random times to ask you stuff or wanting to nickel and 312 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:40,920 dime you over the simplest things or not pay for extra 313 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:44,080 things that you know is going to give you the longevity of the 314 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:48,680 product or, or things like that. These are just, it's not worth. 315 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,480 These are also the people that are not going to be happy in the 316 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,720 end and are going to leave you the bad review. 317 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,040 So they're going to have sucked up your time, your resources, 318 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:02,240 your energy, and quite possibly damaged your brand. 319 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,880 And so I think there's so much power in knowing your ideal 320 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,720 client, but more specifically knowing who isn't your ideal 321 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:16,160 client and taking that as a red flag and being OK with walking 322 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,200 away. I'm guilty of this next thing 323 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,480 too. But sometimes too, we want to 324 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,160 just throw a really high number at it and hope that it goes 325 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,160 away. And the worst thing is when 326 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:27,560 they're like, cool, see ya Wednesday. 327 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,400 And you're like, no, we work together. 328 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,600 Like it's still not worth it, Yeah. 329 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,480 Yeah. So I think too, there's that. 330 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,120 Like just be careful because you may still throw a number at it 331 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:46,720 and it's still not worth what it's taking from you energy 332 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:51,760 mentally and resource wise. So yeah, ideal clients, red 333 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,080 flags there. But then jobs. 334 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,760 So I think that with jobs, we fall into the realm of, and this 335 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:04,200 to me happens in every single business, but you have different 336 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,080 sweet spots amongst your jobs, right? 337 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,720 It's not about charging more makes more money. 338 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,240 And I think that's a huge misconception coming in. 339 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,960 There's so many layers to this, but there's this place where 340 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,520 like efficiency and complexity kind of live in a harmony. 341 00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:28,080 So often times you have your projects that are like, I'm just 342 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,600 going to throw random numbers out there, like 15 to $25,000 343 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:36,200 and they've got a clear stove. They've got faster decisions. 344 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,360 You're in and you're out faster. And maybe these are like a Jack 345 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:44,200 and Jill bathroom or something like that, or just just things 346 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,840 that are faster turnarounds, right? 347 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,880 So they're often very profitable, but then you may 348 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,240 jump to like a 26 to $50,000 project. 349 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,840 And they come with more complexity. 350 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,960 This is for your average client either this is the top of their 351 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,880 scale. So this money is huge than as it 352 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,480 should be. I mean, it is all of this is a 353 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,000 lot of money. But their expectations are 354 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:16,200 higher and so your margins are often tighter and these are the 355 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,040 people watching you the most closely. 356 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,920 So these take more hand holding and things like that. 357 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,280 So your, your sweet spot here, your profitability is going to 358 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,560 drop down. But then you may move up and it 359 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,520 may be that for you. Then you go to 51 to 100K plus 360 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,080 projects. And now we're back being 361 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,600 profitable because we're priced 1 intentionally. 362 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,640 There's room for management costs, there's room for 363 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,320 coordination costs, there's room for systems. 364 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,120 So our profitability peaks back up again. 365 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,200 So and then you add into here to like the resources that are 366 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,680 constantly moving in and out and your resources and the hand 367 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:00,440 holding. And so the goal for those to me 368 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:05,240 are knowing where your sweet spots are and where your 369 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:11,080 creativity and your capacity and your profit kind of all aligned. 370 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,040 And odds are you're going to be doing a little bit of all this. 371 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,240 And like, listen, odds are you just need it for your portfolio 372 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,680 too, right? So nobody, nobody's going to pay 373 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,040 a whole lot of attention to your Instagram if it's constantly 1/2 374 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,880 bath or a Jack and Jill bathroom or a kids bathroom. 375 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,800 You know what I said? They're going to want to see 376 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,800 huge kitchens and pretty kitchens. 377 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,800 They're going to want to see really Moody, beautiful studies. 378 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,360 They're going to want to see all of these huge transformations. 379 00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:43,640 You're going to need that. But too, I think from a creative 380 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,120 level, those are your favorites anyway. 381 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:49,640 Like you, you want to do those and you should do those. 382 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,560 It's just about knowing that balance in there. 383 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,520 And that's to me where it all comes back to looking at that 384 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,680 cost of these jobs and how these jobs fared after the fact. 385 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:06,320 So it may be too that you can still take on that type of job 386 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,240 again, that maybe we can't do two of them at the same time. 387 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,520 Maybe we need to mix it with one-on-one level and 1:00 on the 388 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:19,600 other level so that the efficiency can still exist 389 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:24,520 together, but our profitability. So you're still feeding that 390 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,800 artist brain and doing the things you love while still 391 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,320 making the money you need and keeping the clients happy all at 392 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,680 the same time. So it's so many layers to that. 393 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,360 But then again, it's not that hard to do. 394 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:42,160 People think job costing has to really be these fancy like 395 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:43,880 spreadsheets and it really doesn't. 396 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:49,240 It's just what you spent, what you build, what's left, you 397 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,840 know, And then if it's not, we know you can Google. 398 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,000 I mean, industry standards should be, they say gross 399 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,320 profit, like 35 to 55. I'd love to meet the people 400 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:10,000 making 55%, but I know none. So, yeah, and I think that 35 is 401 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,200 totally a healthy goal to achieve that is remarkable fee 402 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,280 within itself. But like knowing too, not only 403 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,560 that, but like what do you need to make? 404 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,080 So making what you're wanting to make as part of a, which again 405 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,800 it goes back to when I'm wanting to, OK, if we're not taking out 406 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,320 of that 60% what we want to take home, then what do we need to 407 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,040 take home? Well, let's add that into the 408 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,080 cost of these jobs and then is that possible? 409 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,880 You know, are we making that? And if not, what needs to 410 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,360 change? So it's not, these are really 411 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,120 simple framework. It's just a matter of the 412 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:53,800 mindset of looking at this part and you're creating this data 413 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,000 anyway. It's just reviewing it. 414 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,480 I mean, the job's going to cost you what it's going to cost you, 415 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,400 regardless if you look at it or you don't. 416 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:01,720 You know. So. 417 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:03,560 Yeah. OK. 418 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,000 Well, that's a really good point because I like thinking about 419 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,800 how, you know, analyzing that maybe those ones that cost you 420 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:16,680 more in your focus and attention in the middle, like spacing 421 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,560 those out. It would be really smart and you 422 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,440 know, maybe for those types of jobs recognizing that and then 423 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,800 having a wait list for like. Yeah. 424 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:28,040 Those ones like it doesn't mean you have to say no if you still 425 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,360 enjoy doing them but not like having 5 going at the same time. 426 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,200 Right. Yeah, yeah. 427 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:38,200 And two, building and like management fees and stuff, I 428 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,600 mean, if you know, they're going to take more hand holding, then 429 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,880 build that into your costing when you're pricing it, you 430 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,960 know, add in more of that stuff so you have more wiggle room 431 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,480 there that you know that this is somebody that's going to you're 432 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,000 going to have to show them. They're not going to take just 433 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,000 one sample of her, you know, and you just like this is my 434 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,440 favorite and then be like, cool, they're going to want to see 435 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,640 three to five, you know, and So what is that going to look like 436 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,360 for you as far as sourcing products and and things like 437 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:12,120 that and be. Yeah, I think just being mindful 438 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:15,800 of the time it's going to take you to do it and realistic of 439 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:21,440 what you have as far as your capacity, because it's not work 440 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,280 more, make more. It's it really is. 441 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,760 There's AI, wouldn't call it a science behind it, but there's 442 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,640 data behind it that it, things fall the way they fall for a 443 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,880 reason. And all you have to do is just 444 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,560 look at your own numbers. They're not scary, they're just 445 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,480 numbers. And it's not, it's not a 446 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,120 complicated science. It's just knowing what to look 447 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:47,080 at and then just seeing the trends because they're the 448 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,000 trends are going to fall into place anyway. 449 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,440 Yeah. That's true. 450 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,920 Yeah. So what are some habits that 451 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,040 maybe these small business owners can do to help stay 452 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,680 profitable so that they're not like constantly stressing and 453 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:04,360 looking at numbers and just like, like, make sure I'm 454 00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:07,440 meeting all my costs here? Like what are? 455 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:09,160 What are some good things for them to do? 456 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,360 Yeah, Yeah. So I think that one is reviewing 457 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,800 your numbers monthly. I think that people tend to shy 458 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,120 away from doing that because that feels when like it might 459 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:24,120 hurt their feelings or too daunting. 460 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:28,240 And so I think that we need to like think of it like, no, no, 461 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:29,240 no. Is it is. 462 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,080 I like to think of it is it's like Fisher Price easy in the 463 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,600 sense that you can make it as simple as it needs to be. 464 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,520 It doesn't have to be even as much as I love like QuickBooks 465 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,560 and stuff like that, you don't have to have all that. 466 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:44,760 You don't have to have huge Excel spreadsheets. 467 00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:49,200 You can just have a simple, I build them this, I spent this, 468 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,160 this is what overhead cost me. This is what's left. 469 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,360 OK. And then, you know, kind of go 470 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:57,400 from there. But just looking at it is the 471 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:03,920 first step to like checking to make sure that we're checking in 472 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:08,200 on where we are with money and how that's aligning to where 473 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,120 what we've got coming up. Maybe not even in a 60 day 474 00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,280 window, but maybe just a 30 day window. 475 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:15,760 Like what, what are we needing for this? 476 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,080 What are big costs that we have on a personal level that's 477 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,400 coming up that we can't skip paying ourselves? 478 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,920 So what, what does it need to look like? 479 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,560 And then just making sure we're billing ahead and making sure 480 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,600 that we're, we're billing for things that fell out of scope. 481 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,000 And here's the thing, if you're going to give it away, my gosh, 482 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,840 acknowledge that you gave it away. 483 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,360 Send them some type of invoice that says we did this for free. 484 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,360 You know what I'm saying? That he was, this was worth 485 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,960 $400.00 less courtesy discount of $400.00 because they're going 486 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,480 to remember that. And that might be the piece that 487 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,120 sells you the next job with them or that gets them to talk to 488 00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:00,000 their neighbor, whether have a glass of wine on their porch, 489 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,920 you know, wondering the weekend about it. 490 00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:06,560 And so just knowing, I mean, because there's nothing wrong 491 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,040 with that if you're going to, if you're like, well, I just went 492 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,160 ahead and did something because I was here already or whatever. 493 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,240 But they're not mind readers. They don't know that. 494 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,680 So let you know putting all that out there. 495 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,800 But then if we're just giving our profit a plan, if we're just 496 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,960 letting things up intentionally with what's left, we've kind of 497 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,320 got a game plan in mind. So we've got these safety Nets 498 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,040 that are kind of guard railing a little bit for us. 499 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:35,760 And so we stopped being as reactive. 500 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,040 And I think with that comes the calm. 501 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,000 So then we're not stressing as much. 502 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,200 We know where we stand. And sometimes knowing where you 503 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,000 stand, even if it's not as pretty as you'd like it to be, 504 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,560 is still a calming feeling versus the unknown. 505 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,920 But then you know, really I think that if you can come up 506 00:28:54,920 --> 00:29:00,200 with simple ways to create some type of pricing and expectations 507 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,320 and fees out the gate, that clarity's going to create that 508 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,000 com free later on too. Yeah. 509 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,680 So you definitely have, you know, honed in like billing 510 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:15,160 ahead. So that would be not not just 511 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,160 for product, but as well As for fees. 512 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,520 How do creatives make sure that they're charging enough, first 513 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,840 of all, ahead of time, like they're doing a flat fee, and 514 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,840 then how do they make sure that their cash flow is working? 515 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,840 Or what if they like this job is taking longer than they 516 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,600 expected, you know? Yeah, yeah. 517 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,920 So I think that one of the things that I see creatives 518 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:44,040 giveaway out probably more than anything is their drawings and 519 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,400 stuff out the gate. So you spend so much time, you 520 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,120 go out, we look at these jobs, you draw up something, you give 521 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,240 them really pretty things, and then often times they'll sit on 522 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:59,000 that for a long period of time. So to me, a designed fee itself 523 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,480 is worth it. It pays for your time to do 524 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,040 that. You can always, if you want to 525 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:09,520 offer you credit it back if you convert it into a job. 526 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:15,520 But bottom line is the cost for you doesn't start once you start 527 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,160 purchasing materials. It starts once you pick up the 528 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,560 phone or respond to an e-mail. So we have to shift the mindset 529 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,160 there of how do we start making money at that point? 530 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:32,480 But when we start doing these drawings and when we give that 531 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,240 pretty package to them, that package should make it pretty, 532 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,920 make the whole mood for it, everything beautiful. 533 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,440 But let that come at a price point itself, whether that be 534 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,560 two grand, $700.00, whatever you think. 535 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,720 And then if you think that you're going to get because I 536 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,680 mean, the bottom line is sometimes they do take a while. 537 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,000 Sometimes this pretty picture has to sit here and it takes 538 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,800 somebody a while to either come up with the funds to make it 539 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:07,360 happen or to talk their spouse into it or to, you know, like 540 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,120 whatever it might be. So making sure you're getting 541 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,920 paid out the gate where these we're billing for what we've 542 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:21,200 done and then our payments and all need to be tied to the scope 543 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:27,040 and we need to know that we're time yet to progress. 544 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,000 So as it's moving, we're on to the next thing as we get close 545 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,120 to this, this bill will go out if we get close to this, 546 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,720 whatever that might look like, even if that's 50% upfront and 547 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,000 then 25 and 25. And I never really like to see 548 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,920 anybody hold any. A lot of people like, well, I'll 549 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:51,000 save the last 25% till we're done. 25% is a lot of money like 550 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,320 and then you're talking, they're going to walk around with blue 551 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,920 tape and inspect paint or they're going to, you know, look 552 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,240 an entire piece of furniture up and down for anything. 553 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,240 We're holding up a huge, I mean, most of the time that's more 554 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,320 than what you're going to make, especially in the early years in 555 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,200 profit. And so I say we try to get that 556 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:18,240 number down to like 5% at the end and let's bill all the way 557 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,120 up to that because that's more realistic of like if that's your 558 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,200 profit, then that will hold off on that part. 559 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,200 But the rest of this is just fees and pricing of doing the 560 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:33,320 job and that's different. So when we set up those 561 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,840 schedules, let's be realistic on what we can actually afford to 562 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,040 hold on. Because when you give them that 563 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,520 option to hold off until final sign off or whatever 564 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,400 walkthrough, whatever you do, they're going to do it and 565 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,840 you're on their schedule at that point, not yours any longer. 566 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,680 So you're out of control your own money at that time? 567 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,640 Yeah, yeah, all of these conversation that we've been 568 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,120 having today, it like makes me think back to my first few years 569 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,840 in business and all the things I did wrong. 570 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,600 I was out money for a long time until they said like, OK, it's 571 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,200 finally done. And then like here's. 572 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,080 But I think that, yeah, that's everybody though, because you 573 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,240 just don't, you don't think in that moment that you're like, 574 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,280 well, that seems fair, but it's like 50 and then 25 and 25. 575 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,360 You're like, all right, things getting up to me and then you're 576 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:26,520 like, wait a minute, 20. Like I'm held up for one tile 577 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,240 that may have cracked or something. 578 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,240 And now I'm I'm out, you know, a good chunk. 579 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,520 That's a lot. That's impactful. 580 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,440 So yeah. Yeah, very good advice. 581 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,600 So let's talk a little bit about Magnolia and Maine and what kind 582 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,760 of services that you provide if someone's interested in working 583 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:46,360 with you. Yeah, we actually do bookkeeping 584 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,000 and advisory for small businesses and we take it all 585 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,200 the way down to just super small where you might be just needing 586 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,680 somebody just to even at the end of the year come in and clean up 587 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,760 your books to get it tax ready for you. 588 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,960 Or we on a monthly level where we're just going in and 589 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,040 reconciling everything and categorizing things for you. 590 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,400 And the one thing that was really big on for me when we 591 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,280 started this was that I had this idea in my head that it would be 592 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,360 like this, like porch talk. So I would, we would do our 593 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,840 books every month and we would send it to the person. 594 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,520 But then that's just these fancy forms, right? 595 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,080 And so for most business owners, it doesn't mean anything. 596 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,120 And it's intimidating to get this packet full of financials. 597 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,840 So this was something that I pushed very hard for us to be 598 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,880 able to do. We offer advisory calls after 599 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,560 you get your financials every month so that we can sit down 600 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,679 and we can just talk through what does this mean? 601 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:43,239 What am I saying when I look at this? 602 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,760 What do you see when you look at this? 603 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,840 What are things in which maybe reflected on here may not but 604 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:54,480 feel big like debt payment or paying ourselves or saving for 605 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,320 something that we're trying to get or at a client one time that 606 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,200 her biggest thing was just that she wanted to just get a car 607 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,080 through her business herself and it not have to be anything to do 608 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:07,680 with her husband. And that's so we just started 609 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,160 chipping away at getting her to that place. 610 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,640 And I mean, so I think that just having that kind of what on what 611 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,120 space of reflecting for us is really important. 612 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,560 So it's the bookkeeping side, but then it's also the just like 613 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,440 feeling like you have a partner, like you can have this just like 614 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,160 sitting on the porch having a conversation with a friend that 615 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,800 just happens to know a lot about the finance side of things. 616 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,160 And you can just kind of just talk through where you're just 617 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:40,160 given not only grace, because I think that's when the business 618 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,120 centers lack in giving themselves 24/7 is, is the grace 619 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,960 of they feel like they should be perfect at every aspect of a 620 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,960 business. And that's just not the case 621 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,640 because that's not, you know, every, every aspect is a 622 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,080 different type of business. And so getting somebody to give 623 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,640 you that support that grace, but also just the honesty. 624 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,640 And sometimes the honesty is not the fun part. 625 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:07,040 And so we want you to feel confident but not judged. 626 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,080 And I think that for me, I wanted to set up a place where 627 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,120 we could work with people, whether it be $400.00 a month or 628 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,000 $2000 a month. But at the end of the day, you 629 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,600 would have numbers that would feel supportive and not scary. 630 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,880 Because I think that for every business owner, that is the key. 631 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,400 Walk away is that you've got a great set of tools in your 632 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:35,040 numbers if you just use them and so helping people see that you 633 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:40,320 can use them that they're not scary foreign scientific things 634 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,400 and think of it more of like Fisher Price easy like this is 635 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,560 just you know, it's just basic math. 636 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,600 We just need to learn how to use it as a. 637 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:54,920 Tool I love that that's a great gentle approach for a lot of 638 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,200 people who might even have, you know, money baggage and coming 639 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,200 into it too, just like I can't talk about numbers and but that 640 00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:06,600 you have it framed as like a, you know, sitting on the porch 641 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,400 type of a conversation. It's really approachable and I 642 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,200 think that might be, you know, something that is desirable, 643 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,760 especially for a lot of women owned businesses. 644 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,320 Yeah, intimidated by numbers, so. 645 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,400 Yeah, yeah. And I think two people just 646 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,240 forget that debt is a tool that's you use money as a tool 647 00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:25,880 to get you from point A to point B. 648 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,120 And there's no shame of that. It's just kind of giving it. 649 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,600 So once again, it's another set of number which we just got to 650 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,760 give it a game plan and that and we can get ourselves right back 651 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,840 out of it. It may be a longer plan than 652 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,080 other things, but that's OK too, because it's a tool to get you 653 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,440 where you are. No shame in that. 654 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,040 So yeah, yeah, that that for us is the biggest thing. 655 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,120 It's just we just want you to feel like you've got a sounding 656 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,520 board and a safe place to land. Love that. 657 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,080 Well, thank you for doing that, Lauren. 658 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:57,000 And we're going to put your contact information in the show 659 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,080 notes so people can reach out to you and they want to work with 660 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,880 you or just have a conversation. Thank you for coming on today 661 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,240 and sharing your insights with keeping and making the numbers 662 00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:11,320 less scary. Yes, yes, thank you so much for 663 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,400 having me and for putting this out there to help others find it 664 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,160 so. Yeah, my pleasure. 665 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,480 So go ahead and reach out to Lauren if you'd love to work 666 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,200 with them. I've already recommended them to 667 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:34,600 some boot campers from last winter's boot camp because they 668 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,680 have an offering that is perfect for if you're just setting up 669 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,920 your business, which is to like set up your QuickBooks and then 670 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,160 kind of let you take over the day-to-day stuff, right? 671 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,120 But you need to make sure your accounts are all set up 672 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,800 properly. So then you can export reports 673 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,280 and all the things that you need to do. 674 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,400 Because if you just get QuickBooks online, like it's not 675 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,000 set up for a design business. It's just like standard stuff 676 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,400 and you have no idea what accounts to put in there and 677 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:05,200 what to categories things as. And so that's where you need the 678 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,520 professional to come in. And they just have that one time 679 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,640 setup and maybe you want to work with them more afterwards. 680 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,320 But the one time setup is perfect for setting up your 681 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,440 business at the very beginning. So check that offering out and 682 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,640 then also boot camp is almost here and the doors are opening 683 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:23,800 soon. If you're thinking about 684 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,840 starting your own interior design business, I would love to 685 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,880 have you join us. It's such a great way to start 686 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,120 your business. You get to go through all the 687 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,200 things that you need to do. You're not forgetting anything. 688 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,520 It's all set up within 8 weeks so that you can start taking on 689 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,640 your own clients this fall. I'd love to have you in there. 690 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,960 And we also have a webinar that's going to be happening in 691 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,200 June. We have June 10th, June 24th. 692 00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:57,160 So there's going to be a link for you to sign up for those 693 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,040 webinars. And the webinar is going to help 694 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,840 you decide if you want to sign up for Boot Camp because it's 695 00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,880 called. Are you ready to start your 696 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,080 interior design business? And how much does it cost to 697 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,120 start a business? Right. 698 00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,680 It's that everyone wants to needs to know that if you're 699 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,320 thinking about it. So come attend this free webinar 700 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,960 June 10th. I'd love to have you there. 701 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,800 But if you already know you're ready to start your business, 702 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,720 then sign up for boot camp and links are in the show notes. 703 00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:24,880 I'd love to have you. All right, that's all for this 704 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,560 week. Next week we'll have another 705 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,200 great episode. And until then, stay creative. 706 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,760 Thanks for listening. If you love this episode, please 707 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,520 leave a rating and a review. This helps me reach other 708 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:40,240 curious creatives like you. If you have a topic request or 709 00:40:40,240 --> 00:40:43,520 would like to contact me, simply head over to my website 710 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:49,880 arworddesign.com or e-mail me at podcast@arworddesign.com.