We are essentially tapping into your body's control panel and
that reminds everything how to communicate with one another
again. Sometimes something like
acupuncture feels a little bit woo woo.
What evidence is out there to show that this is actually
making a difference? If you have a practitioner
that's saying we will definitely be able to do this, then that is
a red flag. It's not anything nearly as bad
as you think being prodded with a needle would be.
AMH is a big buzzword in the fertility world.
It doesn't define your ability to conceive.
I think it might be making a difference to me, and that
counts for a lot. You're listening to the Too Much
Information podcast where no woman's health topic is off
limits. Before we get started, I just
want to say thank you. This podcast would be nothing
without you. Follow along if you're not
already, and if you like what you hear, please spread the
word. Enjoy the episode.
Hello, and welcome to this episode of Too Much Information.
Today we are talking all about acupuncture for fertility and a
few other Women's Health issues in there as well.
And I am delighted to be joined by Kate Jackson, also known as
the Cheshire Acupuncturist. Welcome, Kate.
It's so nice to have you. Thank you so much.
I, we're so excited to get you on the podcast here because
whenever the topic of acupuncture was mentioned, I
would often get at least one person saying you're based up
north, you should go and see the Cheshire acupuncturist.
And I was like, I wish I could. It's just not that close.
You're very well known in this space.
So I'm just really hoping that today we can start to give
people a little bit more of the facts around why acupuncture is
such a beneficial or whether acupuncture is such a beneficial
addition to a fertility journey and.
Really before? We get started.
I'd love to know a bit about you, who you are, what you do,
how you got into this. Sure.
So I originally got into acupuncture because my grandma
fell very poorly with breast cancer.
I was very, very close to my grandma and a couple of thoughts
popped in my head as to, you know, is she going to be OK?
Like, what's the prognosis of this?
And then secondly, is it genetic?
Am I going to get this? And when I was younger, I
actually used to have, I would say, quite significant health
anxiety. I don't really have it at all
much now, but it used to really consume me.
I used to go down a rabbit hole when I used to have some
something wrong. So I actually just started to
look for ways that could help her.
She was going through conventional medicine.
She was getting a lot of side effects.
And I thought, right, I need to try and find something that
could support her. And I actually came across
acupuncture. I'd always been interested in
health and I just really resonated with it.
And I thought maybe she could try this because she can do it
alongside, you know, conventional medication, things
like that. So I ended up taking her for her
session, and she really, really benefited from it so much.
And I was quite young and I was in a job that I hated.
And I thought, I'm going to go and see, you know, where I can
train to do this. So weirdly, the universe aligned
and there was actually somewhere around 5 minutes from my house
where I lived at the time, who I could train in Chinese medicine.
Um, so two weeks later I was signed up and I then went on to
do a course for three years and many other things after that.
And once I graduated, I was kind of thrown in at the deep end.
So I wasn't doing fertility then.
And then a lot of the managers in the clinics that I was
working in would be like, can you treat fertility?
And I was like, no, I'm not treating fertility.
I'm too young. I don't have any experience with
it. And then one day one of the
managers just said, we're just going to put them in with you.
And I was so angry and annoyed because I just didn't want to do
it. I didn't feel like I was the
right person. And this is just where
everything kind of aligns. So after that day of my first
patient for fertility, I just kind of really resonated with
it. I just realised actually, this
is just somebody'd health. I'm putting the pieces together
and the icing on the cake obviously is the baby.
And then I treated quite a few people over a period of time and
I got results very quickly on word spread very, very quickly.
So it all kind of escalated from there and now I cannot imagine
doing anything else. That's amazing.
What is the best part of your job?
I think the best part of my job is I get to know people so
deeply because I work with them over a significant period of
time. So in the last week, I've had
two patients reach out that I treated six years ago because
they want to try for their second or third child.
You see, you know all the amazing things.
You see all the bad things, the terrible things.
And you build really close relationships with people in
this job. You, you.
And then obviously seeing them come full circle, baby.
That's always the goal, isn't it?
It's so the timing of this is so interesting because I've just
come from my hour long acupuncture session this
morning. So I feel like I've got it all
front of mine now as I'm asking these questions to you, and I'm
super interested in understanding this crossover
between Western and Chinese medicine.
Would you be able to just talk through those two sides of
medicine and how they're different, but also how they
meet? Yeah.
So essentially we can use acupuncture alongside
conventional medicine for the majority.
So essentially with Western medicine, they're always looking
for the pathology in terms of an outcome.
So a diagnosis of some kind, whether it'll be looking at
specific hormones or you know, checking your lining or looking
for structural issues. It's very much rooted in finding
something physical. But for Chinese medicine, we're
actually always looking at patterns.
So we have things called blood deficiency, liver cheese,
stagnation, spleen G deficiency. If you've been to an
acupuncturist who's Chinese medicine training, you'll often
have heard of these things. And these are what we call
Chinese medicine diagnosis. And these kind of come under an
umbrella of patterns. So two people can come to us
with the same issue. For example, they could come to
us with headaches, but the route is entirely different, whereas
Western medicine thought you would treat that the same, where
we'll be looking at the pattern and how that's expressing for
that individual. So you go, you go to get an
ultrasound done. If you're trying for a baby and
you want to see how your lining is and they may tell you it's
thin, Western medicine will tell you that, but Chinese medicine
will help you understand the why.
So it works really well together.
But like I say, Western medicine is always kind of looking for
that end. And it makes you feel like a
failure actually, because often if you don't find anything, the
unexplained fertility label, it's used a lot.
So if we don't actually find anything, we think what's
what's, what's wrong with us. But that's where someone like
myself will come in, or another practitioner that understands
how the body is kind of working as a whole interconnected system
and not just, you know, in isolation.
What kind of thing are you looking for when you're trying
to get to the root cause of a problem?
I mean, a very, very common pattern that we see in clinic is
what we call spleen chi deficiency.
Now that sounds crazy to someone that's never heard that before.
However, essentially it's where the digestive system may be
weakened. So we know that there can be
many causes for that. In Chinese medicine, we know
that warming foods are very important for the digestive
system. So it may be we just need to
make small tweaks about how they consume their food.
Or it might be more from a Western point of view, maybe
they have things like low stomach acids so they're not
actually able to break down and utilise the nutrients from the
food efficiently. So in practise I'm essentially
going through a lot of questions.
It's not a 5 minute appointment, it's a lot of sessions.
And quite often, I'll say to patients, look, we might not
actually figure this out today in one session because I need
time. And quite often I will wake up
at 3:00 AM thinking, right, this is what it is.
Because my patients diagnosis, they're always in my head and
I'd never switch off from it. I like the puzzle around it.
And also, people don't always feel comfortable in the first
session. They might actually tell you
more as time goes along because they might be embarrassed about
something. And so that's why the
relationship with a practitioner is so important as well, because
it allows that space to open up things that they may have not
told other people before, which creates, you know, a better
diagnosis. How exactly does acupuncture
work for fertility and menstrual cycles in general?
It's really important to note that there are actually
different styles of acupuncture. So sometimes someone may come to
me and they say they've had acupuncture, but actually it
turns like they've had dry needling.
Specifically. I'm trained in Chinese medicine
and that's where it originates from and it's been around for
thousands of years. And we look at the body as a
whole interconnected system. It uses very fine needles,
places specific points along the body.
So the easiest way to kind of explain it is we are essentially
tapping into your body's control panel and that reminds
everything how to communicate with one another.
Again, because the system is so interconnected.
So most people do associate acupuncture with relaxation.
And don't get me wrong, it is very, very relaxing and calming,
but it's also working behind the scenes on things like blood
flow, inflammation, digestion, sleep, and your immune system.
So we're actually sending signals to your nervous system,
essentially guiding your body back to homeostasis.
So it's the wiring between your brain, your ovaries, your
uterus, your adrenals, your thyroid, and your nervous system
decides whether your body is in survival or whether it's in safe
mode. And we have two branches of that
system. So we have the sympathetic
nervous system, which is fight and flight.
And then we have the parasympathetic nervous system,
which is rest, repair, reproduce.
And fertility falls in the second category.
So if your brain senses a stress, and stress is a very
broad umbrella term, isn't it? I hate that word.
I really hate it because doesn't really tell us anything.
What is stress? It can be emotional, it can be
physical, it can be blood sugar, it can be overtraining, it can
be lack of sleep. All those things shift you into
a fight and flight state. And in that state, fertility
becomes non essential because the body prioritises survival
over a healthy ovulation. And because your fertility is
not essential for the body to survive, it will shut that down
or try, you know, reduce it. So the body is never actually
against you. It's just your biology and it's
a protective mechanism for your safety.
So if someone is chronically stressed, we often will see
those patterns, whether it comes up as liver cheese, stagnation,
you know, kidney deficiency. They show up in the symptoms
like irritability, tension head and neck pain, palpitations,
lower back pain. And that's the body's way of
communicating because it can't talk.
So acupuncture helps because we we place needles into our
patient and we stimulate the sensory nerves in the skin and
in the muscles. And those signals travel back up
to the brain and they influence the areas that control the
stress hormones, your inflammation, your heart rate,
PU adrenals, the blood vessels. It allows your body the chance
to kind of reset. And if you've ever had
acupuncture, you know, you'll know what I mean.
I actually describe it to my patients like having a glass of
wine because if you're really stressed and you have
acupuncture, but it's just like all of a sudden you just have
that wind down feeling. I actually think that's a great
comparison because when I'm there on the acupuncture table,
it's like you went to this state of deep relaxation.
At the same time. I've almost noticed this like
slight fizzing or buzzing in like within my body, which maybe
you could also liken to that kind of first feeling of like
tipsiness when alcohol hits your system.
Is that normal? Absolutely.
I mean, when patients come to see me for the first session, I
say, look, you might actually feel nothing, or you might feel,
you actually might feel quite heavy.
Yeah, sometimes your legs can go heavy.
I get that when I have acupuncture.
Or you might find tingling or just sensation around specific
points. But yeah, when the nervous
system shifts into that safety mode, when you have that art, I
feel a relaxed feeling that is when the blood flow improves to
the reproductive organs, you know, your hormone signalling
strengthens and ovulation can become more consistent.
So Western medicine robot is always looking at the ovaries,
you know, but it's not just about the ovary.
It's the whole interconnected system.
So interesting. Can we talk a bit about the
science and the evidence behind it?
Because we've definitely got a couple of sceptics out there and
sometimes something like acupuncture feels a little bit
woo woo. I would love to know what
evidence there is out there to show that this is actually
making a difference, particularly when it comes to
fertility. Well, I come from a family
that's very analytical and logical.
So I have, I've had to kind of show the science to my own
family. I was the quack of the family.
I was the black sheep knife when I started acupuncture.
So I totally understand. And I actually, I'm quite
logical and analytical minded as well.
Evidence out there varies because it depends on, you know,
timing, dose of sessions, if they're doing IVF, if they're
trying naturally. But there was a study done on
fertility outcomes and live birth rates for those going
through IVF and that was like a total of just under 6000
participants. And they were essentially women
that were really struggling to conceive and were going through
IVF and they were going through a fresh cycle.
And acupuncture was performed as part of their IVF protocol in
the stimulation phase. And that significantly increased
the clinical pregnancy rates. There's also as well there is
studies out there to show how it can really help those with, you
know what we call door, which is diminished ovarian reserve.
It can help lower FSH. There's studies to show that.
We know that as FSH rises, you know, it's possible that we're
going into that more perimenopausal state.
It can also be driven by other things, but acupuncture can down
regulate that response as well. There are studies to show that
and there are studies now like showing it's equivalent to kind
of using ovulation induction medication because essentially
what it's doing is it's helping the brain to communicate with
the ovaries, which is essentially kind of what things
like letrozole and Clomid do as well in the roundabout way.
And then also Electro acupuncture.
I don't know if you've ever had that.
No, I've never heard of it. What is it?
Well, it's essentially where we will stimulate you a little bit
more because we'll use a little device which allows a current to
go from. Wow.
Yeah, sometimes we may use that. And there were studies with male
infertility on sperm motility and that showed an improvement
in motility and total motile sperm count after Electro
acupuncture. So there is more and more
evidence out there now. But also it's really important
to note that, you know, sometimes people will say, well,
acupuncture hasn't worked for me or doesn't work for me.
And it depends how you define an acupuncture working and you're
defining it by the live birth or you do fine in it by you know,
your how you feel your menstrual cycles and things like that.
And then obviously when I see people, I'm just seeing them for
one hour per week. So you could easily counteract
treatment with lifestyle. So it's that whole balance.
But sent on a on a basic level, it, it does work.
We do have, you know, papers out there, published studies.
So yeah, the the evidence is there.
It's really reassuring, it's really interesting when you're
on a slightly longer, trying to conceive journey.
You're trying a lot of things, right?
So you might be upgrading your diet, you might be doing a
different type of exercise, drinking less alcohol, trying to
meditate, insert many, many, many things here.
And alongside that, you might be doing acupuncture as well.
For me anecdotally, I know that over the last four or five
months since I've been doing acupuncture regularly, my cycles
which were about 35 plus days have gone down to a much more
like 323331 sometimes day cycle. I've definitely had a little bit
less PMSI, yeah, have been ovulating much more regularly.
All of these things are positive in my mind, but there's no way
that I personally could put that down to one thing.
If I'm going into a session like that and I am having a dedicated
hour where I'm not on my phone, I'm not stressing.
In fact, I'm feeling like very relaxed.
That can't be a bad thing. It's multifactorial, isn't it?
There's not, it's never just one thing, you know, the whole body
is an interconnected system. So there's many different
systems supporting fertility. So acupuncture is absolutely
beneficial, but it's not the only thing.
And you don't, you don't have to have acupuncture either.
Some people might just not like needles.
Ironically, I hate needles and I want to.
Oh, really? So yeah, you have to find what
works for you and what you feel comfortable with.
Some people prefer reflexology, but I think with you.
Touching on the anecdotal side, I think that's extremely
important. I think a lot of people can
dismiss that, but this is how trials come around, through
anecdotal evidence, so it's very important.
Whatever it is, whether that's down to you solely or down to a
cocktail of things, it just must be really lovely to see people
get the news that they want. Yeah.
Absolutely. I went to one acupuncture
clinic. I didn't go back.
I didn't have a great experience.
Everything was like, oh, we'll fix that, We'll fix that.
And then on the right as you walked in, there was this pin
board which was just covered by positive pregnancy test result
pictures, ultrasound scans, cards from patients announcing
their pregnancies. And I was like, that is a giant
trigger right there. I just felt like it was a bit
much being promised the world. Is there anything that you, as
an acupuncturist, cannot promise?
We don't promise pregnancy. It's actually on our
consultation form because we need you to understand that
sometimes things just don't go the way we hope and that's OK.
You know, I will normally say to a patient in the first session,
you know, where are you at? It's a very collaborative
process. So where are you at?
What are you prepared right now to put into this?
How much time do you want to give it?
I even give them the chance to tell me how many children
they're actually wanting so that we can.
Kind of just look. At the bigger picture and kind
of see what we can do with that information and what they can
personally handle at that moment in time.
Because if you promise somebody the world and then things are
just not happening, they are going to feel much worse.
If you have a practitioner that's saying we would
definitely be able to do this, then that is a red flag because
no one can promise you that. So we don't promise in our
clinic a pregnancy. We have to take into account the
individual, their history, their circumstances, what they're
prepared to put into this. But also I am, I do try and
encourage patients that there is a lot of hope and you know,
there's a lot that isn't really looked at or investigated
appropriately on the NHS due to budget restrictions and things.
So we try and fill in those gaps where we can to give that
patient hope. And I think it's another example
of how that traditional medicine and contemporary Western,
whatever you want to call it, medicine can intersect and can
kind of go hand in hand with each other as well.
Yeah. 1 thing I'd love to know about is the value of like
add-ons within acupuncture. I've had somebody using like an
infrared light over me and also almost a Reiki style like chime.
That was interesting. OK, OK.
But I'd love to know what the benefits are of these additions.
Yeah, sure. So we use moxa in the clinic
quite often. It's a herb that is burnt and
there's different ways to use it within the clinical setting.
So for me, most commonly I will use a moxa butcher stick.
It looks a bit like a cigar. It's not.
Smells like weed as well. Great weed.
However, we will light that at the end like a cigar and we'll
hold it over specific points depending on the presentation of
that person and what they need and that influences the flow of
blood through those specific channels that we may be working
on with that patient. So we may use Moxa to turn help
turn a breech baby and that can be really successful because we
are working on that specific channel.
The channel runs through the uterus and the warming element
of the Moxa and the acupuncture moves fluid, which allows the
baby to turn over a period of time.
And we may use it if someone has, you know, the cold we, it
gets a lot of wrap on hate on Instagram, the cold we, but I
think people don't really understand what it is.
It's just essentially A diagnosis with a set of
symptoms. And if something's cold, we do
want to move it and warm it, so we can use Moxa busting for
that. There are many different ways
that we can use it, but it does depend on the person and it's
also not right for everybody. I don't respond very well to
Moxa personally. I'm very, I'm more dry.
So for me, it's a little bit too stimulating for me and it can
give me headaches. But for the right person, it's
amazing. We also have the heat lamp and
infrared. It's probably my most commonly
asked question on my Instagram. Where is your where is your lamp
from? They can really help because
they support the mitochondria from a western point of view,
which is like the the powerhouses of ourselves, allows
energy production and essentially if we put it over
the abdomen, it can really support the mitochondria in the
area. Ideally you don't really want to
be doing it any longer than 20 minutes in a session because you
can, you can stimulate the mitochondria too much.
You know, there's balance with everything.
An infrared is not always warm. So I have a couple of lamps.
I have the infrared lamp that isn't warm and I have a a red
lamp which is warm. So again, it will depend on the
person as to what I will use in the session.
We can use Electro acupuncture, which we touched on earlier, and
we have herbal medicine that's a completely separate skill set
and can be really complementary to acupuncture.
Great one for those that maybe are not able to get to clinic
every week. A lot of IVF clinics are not.
They will generally advise you not to be on herbs around your
treatment. Again, down to the individual,
then it's personal choice. Yeah, I was definitely said
that. Could you explain to listeners
some of the best ways to choose a clinic or an acupuncturist?
You've touched on a couple of red flags, but what are some
signs that someone is good? OK.
So you want to make sure that the practitioner has proper
training and registration. So in the UK it's not a
regulated industry and I'm not sure that it ever will be
because there's so many different types of, of
practitioners doing it from physios to Chinese medicine.
So it's hard to kind of regulate that.
You want to look to see if they're registered with a
recognised body such as the British Acupuncture Council and
you want to make sure that they're trained in at least two
years for acupuncture because there is the option to do, you
know, very short weekend courses out there.
And the more I learn, the less I know.
And I've been doing this for a decade.
So how you would know everything in a weekend is beyond me.
I actually just started with acupuncture and then I
specialised more in the fertility.
So you need the foundations first.
In terms of the actual practitioner themselves, you
want to make sure that they ask good questions.
What's their consultation form like?
Is it 3 questions or is it a novel?
Mine's actually a novel because I just want to know so much
about the person and then we have those questions in clinic
as well. Is your practitioner comfortable
with collaboration in terms of, you know, working alongside GPS,
you know, another consultant, a clinic, are they anti medicine?
People will automatically assume because you do acupuncture that
you may be anti medicine. You know, you know, you can't be
because sometimes medication is absolutely required for an
individual. And then lastly, I would say
making sure that you feel safe because I actually feel like a
practitioner was a huge part of your healing and processing the
entire journey and not feeling like you're rushed or you're
judged. And I also feel that you will
know when you find that practitioner in your gut, really
how as long as they've got the training and how you feel about
them. Yeah, really good advice.
And I think with all these things, having that trust in the
team that's working with you is so important because at the end
of the day, I don't know how to stick a needle in my body to get
any kind of positive impact. I don't know what kind of
injections I should be taking to stimulate my ovaries, so you do
just have to have complete trust in the team that's behind you.
Yes, you do. We've got quite a few listener
questions, Kate. I am wondering if we can go
through these in more of a quick fire style.
The first one I think I actually can answer and that is does it
hurt? It doesn't hurt really, does it?
No, it doesn't hurt. You may feel different
sensations at different times in your cycle.
Sometimes you could be more sensitive when you are kind of
due on your period or on your period.
Also depends on the practitioner if I'm being totally honest and
their skills as well. So there is a like a technique
to that. But generally speaking, no,
there is no pain, just more sensation.
Yeah, that makes sense. I've had a couple in my ear and
on the end of my toe which like definitely felt like more
sensitive spots, but it's not nearly as bad as you think
being, you know, prodded with a needle would be.
How often do you need to go and how consistently for it to be
effective specifically for fertility?
It depends what we're working with.
I will generally see my patients weekly or every other week and
sometimes patients are not able to do that and that's fine.
But we have to set realistic expectations.
So if somebody, you know, has a healthy meal once, that's
obviously really good for them, but we need it to be more
cumulative to get the effect. So ideally we want to work with
them for a good 12 weeks because the whole process and their, you
know, follicle formation happens over around 90 to 120 days.
So we want to work with you in each phase of your cycle to help
that process. Is there a better time in your
cycle to be getting acupuncture? That's a really, really, really
common question that I get, actually, yes and no.
I mean, if you're in a position where you're not able to go
weekly, then I would say go once at least in your follicular
phase and then once in your luteal phase and try and balance
out that way. But generally speaking, we can
see you at any point of your cycle and it will always benefit
you no matter what part of your cycle you're in.
OK, that's great. Is it ever too late to start
acupuncture for fertility? It depends what the goal is.
If you are. Sometimes people don't hear
about acupuncture until they are actually at the doors of the IVF
clinic because they often talk about it.
Now, if we know someone's going for IVF, in an ideal world, we
want to see them, you know, the three months before their egg
collection so we can really get the best quality eggs.
But some people don't find out, you know, until a few weeks
before. So I normally will tell them,
look, we we might not have the best influence in terms of the
eggs. However, you are absolutely
still going to get benefit from the acupuncture alone in terms
of the nervous system, the blood flow, you know, helping to
regulate the hormones, helping to put that body into
homeostasis, common inflammation.
So there's absolutely benefits if you are within that window,
you can absolutely still start. Great, thank you.
Is acupuncture for fertility only for women?
No, it's not. It's for men as well.
It's actually really, really good for motility.
Interesting. Yeah, we see.
I mean, it's not old. It's not anything new now, but
we know that the sperm count is, you know, declining rapidly.
We have seen more men in clinic over the last 18 months than
ever really, even if they're not actually physically involved in
the in the process. If it's the same sex couple, for
example, we welcome them as well just because it's not just about
the individual that's going through it.
It's, it's all the parts that help create, you know, that baby
in the 1st place. So yeah, it's really, really
beneficial for men. And sperm count, sperm motility,
morphology, this, the sperm process takes roughly 70 to 90
days. So again, if we can work with
them over, that's that time. Amazing.
That's so interesting. And yeah, it's, it's a stressful
situation as well, whoever you are, whether you are the partner
who's, you know, physically going through something or not.
So yeah. We've had quite a few men and
it's really, really nice to see them like, oh, I just feel
really calm. I feel really relaxed.
So they do benefit from it as well.
And sometimes they just need that encouragement to just come
in. At least try a session.
Love it. We've touched on this, but in a
nutshell, what is the acupuncture focusing on?
Stress or something more tangible?
It absolutely helps stress, yes, but it does support the more
tangible things like obviously your cycle length, your
ovulation timing, your bleeding quality, like the colour, clots,
cramps. So if someone has painful
cycles, they will notice that they have much less pain
generally speaking in, you know, a couple of cycles because it
has an anti-inflammatory response in the body.
So yes, it's very much tangible as well.
And can that also benefit people who maybe have endometriosis or
something like that which is causing?
Yeah, acupuncture is so good for endometriosis.
I mean, there is no cure, so it's all about managing
symptoms. I see a lot of patients with
endo and the results that they get from acupuncture in terms of
their pain because that just knocks them out is amazing.
It's really, really good for that.
That's great to know. Is it possible to increase AMH
through acupuncture or stop it from drastically decreasing?
So we know that AMH is a marker of ovarian reserve natural
trends down with age. But there are some studies of
those with like diminished ovarian reserve where AMH can
increase after having regular acupuncture.
The evidence and the quality is mixed, but I've personally seen
it with my patients as well. Also depends on what's
influencing the AMH because it could be nutritional
deficiencies, it could be toxins, it could be blood flow.
But if we're just talk talking specifically blood flow because
acupuncture was so good for that, then yes, it is possible
for AMH to increase through having acupuncture.
But it's not our primary goal. It can just be a byproduct of
everything that's kind of happening.
The AMH as well, obviously it's a big buzzword in the fertility
world and people get frightened by it.
Doesn't define your ability to conceive.
And it's also an indication of how active and how happy the
follicles are as well. So the more nutrients and blood
flow going to the ovaries, quite often you'll see that reflected
in the AMH number on a piece of paper.
So sometimes if people's obeying reserves increased a bit after
working together, the follicles are generally happier.
Yeah, that's great. Thank you.
And AMH is more about your quantity of eggs and your egg
reserve, right, rather than your quality.
So we don't have. Yeah, we.
Can't with indication of that. No, we can't really test egg
quality at the moment. Yeah, interesting.
This is definitely a question that I've been interested in and
one that we've got from a lot of people is what can be the impact
of acupuncture on womb lining thickness and also progesterone
levels. It's used for, you know, pelvic
blood flow. So we'll often put needles
around the lower abdomen and that will increase blood flow to
that specific area. And that is how it's improving
lining thickness. I mean, it can also down
regulate things like inflammation that may be
impacting the lining as well. But then in terms of
progesterone, it's more about the feedback loop.
So we talked at the beginning of the podcast about the nervous
system and the communication between the brain and the
ovaries. So when we are performing
acupuncture, we are essentially recalibrating that system, which
has a downstream effect on your hormones.
So we're not directly impacting progesterone.
We're actually supporting the systems that actually support
progesterone itself. $1,000,000 Question How do you know if
acupuncture is working? Yeah, I mean, like I mentioned
daily, most people are looking for the baby and that's how they
measure success. However, it's really important
to measure the things that come before that because that shows
that you're going in the right direction.
So possibly improved surbicom, mucus karma, PMS, better sleep,
warmer hands and feet, less pain, less clotting, improved
luteal phase symptoms, you know, more consistent ovulation.
Those are the things that we should be looking for first.
Otherwise, you will feel like a failure when you get to the end
of the month and you're not pregnant because we know that
things will often come before the positive test.
Yeah, so interesting. You just reminded me that in our
last, my last cycle, right before we started IVF meds, so I
was not allowed to be, we were not allowed to be trying.
I literally had more cervical mucus than I have ever had in my
life. And I was like, what is going on
here? Which is so slow really isn't
it? I was like, why?
Why now? But no, it's good.
It's good. OK, very selfishly.
Final question from me, is acupuncture for IVF?
Generally, when is the best time to use acupuncture within an IVF
protocol? Ideally in an optimal world, you
want to be starting 12 weeks before a collection, but don't
panic if you find that you're already in that window.
Just start right away. OK, and then around transfer you
want to have it, you know, 24 hours either side.
But other than that I've. Heard about this?
Yeah, there is quite a lot of. Evidence around that isn't
there. Yeah.
That's great. I've got one final question and
that's just around those people who can't access acupuncture for
whatever reason. It might be location, it might
be cost. Obviously, as far as I know,
this is almost always private in the UK, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah. Are there any things that they
can do which are founded in the same principles of acupuncture
to support fertility if they can't access or afford to go to
regular acupuncture sessions? You can do acupressure at home,
which is essentially stimulating the same points, but you're not
inserting the needles. It's just more stimulation.
So you can, you can look on YouTube and you can look at
certain points and just you can massage certain points.
Anything that's helping to regulate the nervous system is
going to have a downstream positive impact on your
hormones. So going outside, being in
nature, all the boring things that we hear all of the time.
So if it's not affordable for you or you're not able to get
acupuncture, don't feel like you're missing out because there
are a lot of free things that you can do to support yourself.
Even just going for a massage or having a massage.
I'm going to walk. Making sure you're getting your
sleep, making sure you're getting light.
Light is a big thing. It's a huge one.
The body actually deems no light as a stress, so if you can get
out in the light as well, the light actually will give a
signal to the hypothalamus to start making the right hormones
at the right times. That's brilliant.
And is that specifically in the morning or anytime?
In the morning is amazing because it resets the security
and rhythm, but just in general as well.
I love that. We'll definitely be sharing that
on socials as well. Thank you so much for today.
Is there anything that you want to touch on before we wrap up?
I would just love to say that don't give up because I have
seen a lot of patients like I mentioned earlier, who have got
their baby who had just been told no repeatedly and find
someone and have find Your Circle as well.
I have the online community. There's a lot of women in there
that, you know, support each other, so you just don't feel
like you're on your own because it can become all consuming, as
you probably know as well. Yeah, definitely.
It's really interesting that you said that because we are doing
another episode actually with Hannah Pern, A fellow paternity
acupuncturist, about finding your people and community when
it comes to facilities. Where can people find you, Kate?
So you can find me on Instagram at the Cheshire Acupuncturist.
You can go on my website, which is Cheshire acupuncturist.com.
I have just started a YouTube that's also the Cheshire
Acupuncturist. So watch this space.
I might do more on there soon. And then you can find the clinic
where at the Juniper Clinic on Instagram and you can find our
website juniperclinic.co.uk. That's brilliant.
We'll be posting all of those. So if you're listening or
watching, just have a look below and it will be there.
And I'm really hoping that, as we've discussed, when the sun
eventually shows its face, I might be able to pop in and
actually have a look in in real life, because it would be so
nice and it looks like such a lovely studio.
No, it's gorgeous. You're more than welcome.
Oh, thank you and thank you so much for your time today.
I hope that this helps people feel more confident in whatever
decision they're making about whether acupuncture is or isn't
right for them. Hope it helps people kind of
just understand a bit more about what they're actually doing and
what's happening to them. And as you say, yeah, I hope
that whoever's listening here who might be in that kind of
slightly desperate, I'll try anything phase.
Don't get hoodwinked into trying something because you feel like
you have to, because bloody hell, it can be overwhelming.
But take it from someone who's been doing this, if you can
access it and the thought of needles doesn't freak you out
completely, it's really worth a try because it's a lovely it's a
lovely hour if nothing else, and I think it might be making a
difference to me, and that counts for a lot.
Yeah. Thanks, Kate.
All right. Thank you so much.