I'm Brandon. And I'm Jessie.
We're. Cannabis school having cannabis
infused conversations. With everyday.
People. Cannabis companies.
Celebrities. And your mom?
Welcome to the Sash. Welcome to the Sash, Yeah?
Welcome. We have Riley Kirk or Cannabacam
from Social and she's got her own podcast.
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, that is right.
That's. Tell us all about your podcast
real quick so everybody can start subbing to it right now.
Sure. Yeah, it's, it's relatively new.
I started it kind of the fall of last year, but it's called Bio
Active and it's about how cannabis, cannabinoids and other
medicinal plants interact with your body and how we can kind of
use that information to dose better or to find a better
consumption method. And just taking community
stories as well from different researchers, patients, etcetera,
and just having like low level conversations, nothing too, too
crazy, but it really is science focused and harm reduction
focused. Just trying to give people the
resources that maybe they haven't had in the past because
there hasn't really been a way for that lower barrier of entry
to get into that realm of science.
Yeah, I'm looking at it right now.
This is awesome. This is this is going to be my
new podcast. Yeah, actually.
Listening to a good handful. Yeah, an episode coming up today
on using nutrients for your cannabis grow, but it's like
from step one of like, why do we put nutrients on plants?
Oh, that's cool. Yeah, good news for you.
So is that one going to be more of a series or is it just a
short like a one spot? I would like it to get more
complex. So this is kind of for beginner
growers, but I would love to have somebody on who talks about
like the more rigorous science component of that too.
Because my listeners, there's a kind of a huge spectrum of
people who have never grown a plant, people who are growing
for the first time, and people who are like expert cultivators.
So I want to make sure I can provide a little information for
everyone. Oh, that's cool.
We actually had a really good. Yeah, we get an issue for that.
That would be a good fit. He actually creates a carbon
based fertilizer for cannabis plants.
Yeah, and the results he's had is insane, to the point where
they were talking about where sticks and stems were being
harvested for trichomes that were all over the.
Plant Oh they were getting what was it?
It was a grade pulls from sticks and stems for concentrate.
Yeah, no, they're getting unheard of.
That's. Crazy, yeah.
So he yeah, really cool. We'll connect you guys.
I think it would be really. Yeah, that would be great for
your show and for your listeners.
That would be fantastic, 'cause I mean, honestly, I was like, I
was getting geared up for it, 'cause I love the depth of
science, but I'm just like, oh, it's just gonna be a science
guy. And I'm like, this is gonna be,
it's gonna be rough. But it wasn't.
It was so cool. Yeah, it was entertaining as
how. Cool.
'Cause we've had like science people that we've talked to
sometimes and we're like, oh God.
Like this is. Really rough, like I love it.
This is great but you're not speaking on anyone's level
unless you have like this tier and most people out there aren't
at that level. So if you want any of them to
have an understanding. Yeah, There's a difference
between science and some science communication.
And, like, scientists are not taught to communicate their
science with the general public. We're taught to communicate it
with a bunch of people with massive egos.
And we have to use these really big words and, like, present
ourselves really, you know, sophisticated.
But that only works in academia in some industrial settings.
But most people who like, care about that science are just
general people. And we need to find ways to
connect the general consumers with the in ways that aren't
intimidating and push people away from science.
So yeah. So being in your field and
really quick, tell our listeners exactly what your background is
and your what your specialties are and where you see going into
the future. Yeah, for sure.
So my background is a PhD in pharmaceutical sciences, but I
specialize in what's called natural product chemistry and
understanding the chemistry that plants, fungi, bacteria,
microbes, all of these different organisms make and how we can
use them as medicine and how they've traditionally been used
as medicine. So if anybody out there doesn't
know, about 60% of pharmaceutical drugs come from
nature. Nature is the best organic
chemist in the world world and nature synthesizes compounds
specifically to interact with animals, typically insects or
herbivores that are trying to eat it.
So when we think about human medicine, we're not that far
removed from a deer or even something like an insect.
So that's really like what my background's in and currently I
focus on a lot of different things, but I'm the Co founder
of a cannabis research and education nonprofit called the
Network of Applied Pharmacognacy or NAP.
And essentially we're focusing on bridging community data
because we believe that cannabis consumers are the experts in
this medicine, but we've never leveraged that information.
So we want to study cannabis consumers and what we're already
doing, but also doing the biochemical laboratory work to
kind of validate those studies and use the combined approach to
kind of get behind some of these nuances in cannabis medicine
that we can't even try to get to with just laboratory work alone.
There's so much more complexity to that.
So we want to tell a better story that represents cannabis
consumers better by using a combination of different data
types and telling more of a story with cannabis medicine.
So, so right now you guys are are gathering individuals to be
able to perform these studies. We already have studies going.
We have a study with over 7000 participants that's looking at
daily cannabis use. So that study, we're actually
getting ready to publish it, but it is a study that's just gonna
keep going on for hopefully forever.
So we can see how patterns in use change over time.
But essentially we're just asking people like, hey, what
time do you dose yourself for the first time?
What consumption method are you using?
What product types are you using?
You know, do you have a chronic issue or are you using more in
an adult use recreational way? Just asking really basic
questions. And you know, the data has been
really cool so far. We found that about 90% of
people are daily consumers, which was really shocking to a
lot of people, but not that shocking to us.
I mean, we know that like cannabis, it is a medicine and
it like with any other medicine, we wouldn't expect people to
take two days on of the medicine, four days off, one day
on, one day off. You know, it's like reaching
that, that steady state, that baseline that we're looking for
and being a daily cannabis user makes sense from that medicinal
perspective. We also have some really cool
data on cannabis and driving. About 64% of people use cannabis
and drive and about 60% of people wake and bake, which
again, is like a little shocking to some people, but it's really
validating to a lot of cannabis consumers who always felt they
had to hide their use or couldn't be open about it.
And now they have this statistic and what's going to soon be a a
peer reviewed study that they can, you know, show their mom,
show their physician and say, hey, I'm not alone here.
There's a whole community that has a similar brain like me and
reacts to this medicine in a positive way.
That's cool and you have been on your cannabis journey for a long
time now. Yeah, like personally, I started
using cannabis at 14, but when I started talking about cannabis,
it was really during the pandemic because I was teaching.
I was the TA for a course on cannabis chemistry and
pharmacology and it was through university and the university
was charging like $7000 for people to take this course.
And I'm someone who's like, information should be free,
science should be free, everything should be free.
So after seeing this, I'm like, why doesn't everybody have these
resources to learn about how cannabis works in the body?
This is such cool information that I've never seen actually
disseminated to the public. So then pandemics kind of
starting at this point, people are starting to work from home
more. I like, I'm a scientist, I don't
have that much to do at home. So I started making tick tocks,
just talking about the chemistry and pharmacology of how cannabis
works in the body. And, you know, people were just
grabbing at that information. They wanted it so bad, and they
wanted it presented in an entertaining way.
And, you know, that Channel took off.
It's still existing to this day. But, you know, I've expanded to
Instagram, to YouTube and to podcasting now.
So I just try to produce as much free information as possible.
And your TikTok has like 420,000 followers, right?
I just like it because of the number.
Obviously that's. Crazy.
That's actually, that's serendipitous, right?
She's like, she's a 420 man. That's awesome.
Synchronous followers to stay at 4:00. 20 yeah, we had to try and
add her like three times and then she's like oh shit, drop
someone else. Fine.
So you know it worked out. I guess we'll get rid of Cheech
and Chong, just push them aside to bring us it.
How sweet is she? She's amazing.
No, I, I am. I am just baffled by the amount
of and, and it's just the way it needs to be.
This data needs to be able to be gathered from an uncontrolled
source where, I mean, you just have, I mean, not an
uncontrolled, but, but a controlled area where you can be
able to go. OK, well, let's actually see if
these people are gonna be open. And since it's not gonna be
published like publicly with each individual and who was in
the study, that's amazing to be able to hear about it. 90% our
daily consumers. That's freaking awesome, right,
60%? Another part to kind of what
you're talking about here and, and this part I think is maybe
the most important and it's the component of trust within the
cannabis community, especially with research, right?
There are currently government studies out right now,
government funded studies that are trying to ask cannabis
consumers these questions and they have difficulty getting
people to sign up and being honest in these surveys because
the government has targeted our population for decades.
And why on earth would we answer to the government and tell them
exactly what products we're using, at what dose and what
time of day and share all that valuable information when
they've really provided nothing for us?
So it's like we need this research to happen from within
the community, from people who openly blaze all the time on the
Internet, at conferences, at home, whenever it is, like I
smoke weed every single day and I'm very open about it.
And that's who people want to like give their data to.
And, you know, say like, I trust you with this data and I trust
that you're not going to manipulate it or present it in a
way that's not representative of our community.
So, you know, that part alone has really spend an eye opener
for us because we are really loud on the Internet about what
we do because we don't believe we should have to hide it.
We don't believe we should have to, you know, hide our cannabis
use or lie about it. So we're kind of setting that
standard and hoping that people kind of follow along and want to
participate in this research for those reasons.
Jeez, yeah. What's what's been one of the
most unusual uses of cannabis that you found in your research?
Oh, that's a really good question.
Unusual uses of cannabis. I mean, something that's
probably the most stigmatized is the use for mental health
conditions like schizophrenia. And, you know, everybody says
that if you have a family history of schizophrenia to stay
away from cannabis. But if you look at the data and
if you even look at the data that we're collecting, people
who have schizophrenia and use low doses of THC and a lot of
CBD, actually, their mental health is typically better than
people who don't. There's people with
schizophrenia tend to use cannabis a lot.
Like there are, there's a lot of overlap there.
And in no way am I advocating for people with this genetic
background to just dive into cannabis.
But it's important to know that, like, even though it's
stigmatized and a lot of people think that nobody with
schizophrenia should be using cannabis, the data says that
people still are. And it's worth researching more
because these people are finding positives, or at least a subset
of that population. It is finding positives in this
medicine. And it's really the high doses
of THC that can cause something like psychosis or adverse mental
health effects, whereas something like CBD can really
help reduce inflammation in your brain and it can help with some
of the symptomology of something like schizophrenia.
So it's just again, adding nuance into that conversation
and talking about dose and talking about active compounds,
not just saying weed is weed is weed, it's all the same.
Just smoke it and you'll feel the same as everyone else.
It's like, no, like as educated consumers, we have control over
our dose. We have control over what active
compounds we're putting into our body, what time of day.
And the more that we can have those conversations openly,
that's really where the harm reduction comes in because we
can teach people that you can use CBD products and you don't
need THC and you can still have benefits to that medicine.
Well, it's even people who aren't schizophrenic.
Everyone can see the biphasic properties of cannabis, you
know, low doses versus high doses going, oh shoot, this
makes me feel great. This makes me feel crazy,
paranoid and anxious. You know, it's, it's the same
exact thing going OK, what is the dose of medication?
I'm sure any medication giving to anyone in their incorrect
dose would cause horrible side effects, whether it's
schizophrenia, paranoia, anxiety, depression or whatever
you know there's always a proper dose for.
And I have, I mean, I did 10 years in psych.
So working with severely mentally ill people for the
state, this is the place where they send them because nobody
else will take them or the jail's like we're not dealing
with this. But working with those
individuals, you would see throughout there because I would
be involved in every single patient's treatment plans.
And it was amazing to see exactly.
I mean, now reflecting back because back then it was just
like POTS for fun. We do it on the weekends.
You know, it's, it's not something openly talked about.
And a lot of these patients records were coming.
They, they would use cannabis frequently and the cannabis
then, which this is quite a while ago, the cannabis then is
completely different to the cannabis now because of the, the
science that's going into the grows and, and understanding
exactly everything down to the plant.
Not just I put it in the ground and I put water on it.
And thus it grows like it's, it's completely changed.
And I would like to see it because I have always wondered
that because I had worked with some very severely schizophrenic
people and I could see the wrong strain or the right or the, the
recommendation, the wrong combinations of terpenes and,
and cannabinoids would definitely affect that.
Absolutely. I mean, there's been strains we
smoked together where I'm just like, oh shit, I am not in a
good place. I am so paranoid and I am
freaking out. And it's just learning that.
And if we have more studies even going deeper into that one, then
we're being able to start doing what you've talked about before.
Like wouldn't it be great if I had a way, a process to be able
to go this is these are the right terpenes for me?
Yeah, like endocannabinoid deficiencies, like if we could
look at that and go, hey, what is this person's endocannabinoid
deficient in and craft a strain, a tincture, a vaporizer,
whatever it is around that person's specific needs, like
how? But I don't think the science is
quite there. We don't have that put out to do
that, but I feel like that is where I would love to see
cannabis get to. But again, that's down the road
and how we need to open the doors for more research and for
allowing those things. But even like you've talked on
one of your videos, you know, the Schedule 3 doesn't really
allow the cannabis research to change because there's already
in place other laws surrounding cannabis and research
specifically. So it'll be interesting to see
what unfolds. Yeah.
And I also just wanted to note like there are companies out
there right now who are taking people's DNA and trying to
formulate products for exactly what you're talking about.
And I just want to put a word of caution out to the listeners
that I strongly believe our science is not there yet and I
would not support these products yet.
I'm not saying that in 10 years we won't have that information,
but I think right now it's more of a marketing thing and less of
a medical whole thing. So just just a word of caution
there because another thing to remember about your
endocannabinoid system, it's very, very dynamic.
It changes throughout the day, it changes through your age, it
changes through hormonal cycles. It is always, always changing.
So to be able to formulate a product to fix your needs based
on your ECS levels, it's going to be really difficult.
You know, that's not to say people with clinical
endocannabinoid deficiency, if you have chronic migraines, if
you have have inflammatory bowel conditions, if you have
fibromyalgia, then yeah, like supplementing your body with
cannabinoids is absolutely going to help.
But for the fluctuations in the day, I mean, the reason why that
wake and bake data was really interesting to us is because
your endocannabinoid levels are at the lowest in the morning.
So when you smoke in the morning, that wake and bake hits
really, really hard. Because there's nothing.
Else competing for the receptors in your brain, it's just like a
one way ticket for THC to slide in there.
Whereas later in the day, say around noon when your
endocannabinoid levels are higher, now you have competition
at that receptor. So when you smoke it doesn't hit
as hard, it doesn't hit as fast. You feel a difference from
consuming in the morning versus consuming at night.
And also just the point about like personalized terpene
profile, you know, I think that's something we definitely
need to study and maybe we can match it with like neurotypes,
the, the types of brains that we have and how people respond to
things based on their level of anxiety or PTSD or, you know,
their age or whatever. That is because I, I say this
all the time on the Internet, but my favorite strains would
give most people a panic attack. Like I love the strains like
terpenoline rich, pinene rich, like the ones that like often
make people really anxious. Those are the ones that like
itch my brain in the right way and make me feel great.
But I always warn people when I, when I roll something up, I'm
like, take one puff and like see how you feel.
Do not chief on this cause 'cause you will likely get a
little anxious. So just like you know, take take
it step. Away.
Aside from Jack Herrera, what are your other favorite go to
strains? Oh, I'm a big Jack fan, yeah.
I love Durban, love Durban Poison.
I love the train Kiwi, I don't. Have you ever tried?
No, it's. Really nice too yeah it's kind
of those are my favorite the the terpenoline is my favorite like
if I can find a strain with terpenoline, I'm going to find
it grow it, buy it, whatever I can do there.
But I'm not really sensitive to certain strains making me feel
great versus not THC reacts really well with my body.
It always has I have seizure conditions and I think that's
kind of part of that story. But you know, to each their own,
but for me, I have like kind of an ADHD brain.
So anything that kind of is too stimulating for most people is
just like the right amount of productivity for me.
Yeah, I found this amazing focus with Green Crack that I just I
wasn't expecting with it and I just it's been one of my
favorite strains this last little bit.
You know, the Tropicana cherries that this was a cool experience,
my first time with it. I mean, just reddish purple, but
I mean the flower was so, and it, it was beautiful.
But I, I had at one time I was writing a, an SOP for this
company I was working with and I was like, you know, I'm just
going to puff on this. This would be really good.
And I have it. And boom, I only had like half a
bowl. And I was like, I was jazzed up
and I wrote this whole like 16 page SOP in an hour And I was
like, well, this is awesome. But then I think, oh, I should
have a full bowl. So I'm having a full bowl and a
half and I'm still pretty sensitive even after all this
time and full, I couldn't, I couldn't breathe out of my nose.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, this.
And then I started kind of like panicking.
I'm like, crap. So I go to the fridge.
I started loading up on lemon juice and CBD and I'm bringing
it down and I'm like, why is this?
There has a lot of beta carophiline in it and it just
got into the nasal passages and into the membranes in there and
they just squeezed it. I was like, Oh my gosh.
But so awake. So that's interesting.
So for tripernalane for you, that is an ADHD like Viber.
It just, it just gets you dialed in.
Yeah, like it's, it's my preferred medicine, like exactly
what you're talking about. If I need to write a paper, if I
need to clean the house, if I need to do anything where it's
like I need to be productive. Terpenoline is like Adderall to
my brain. It like makes me work so
efficiently there. You go, Oh my so.
For all you out lovers, I'll check out Terpenoline.
Yeah. Now I'm definitely in that.
So. Oh, my gosh.
Because I've, I've been really. Yeah, go, go, please.
Going to say about anxiety too. I think something that's
overlooked a lot in cannabis is set and setting matter a lot in
cannabis. We always talk about it in
psychedelics, right? But if you're smoking at home on
something and you know you're just used to smoking at home,
you're very comfortable. You have your animals, you have
your plants, you have everything there.
If you go to a different setting where maybe it's much more
social. I remember like one time I was
giving a talk somewhere and I had smoked a strain it was super
familiar with, but I smoked it right before and I'm, I ought to
give a talk and I'm like, I can't do this right now.
Like I need to, I need to take a walk, I need to take a break.
I, I was with my husband. I'm like, can we like drive away
and like go get like a Gatorade and get some fresh air?
And we, and we took, you know, 25 minutes and calmed down.
But I was like, whoa, that was really interesting because this
strain has never given me anxiety, but I'm already nervous
for what I'm about to do. And it just exacerbated the
anxiety and made it so much worse.
It's that fluctuating ECS then you know ever changing and where
one thing might affect it the same and then hours later or
different location, different set and setting.
No, I never thought about that time of day.
And that does make a lot of sense because it's, it's
definitely what you stated, you know, you set and setting
because I started to have those things where I started to learn
more towards limiting and little lol to for a really calming
effect, even if it was sativa. And that was my judgment, but I
didn't think about tapronoline. And now I am, oh, I love it, but
tapronoline, that makes a lot of sense 'cause there are times
I'm, I'm severe ADHD, like I'm so disorganized.
I'm good at what I do. I'm just disorganized as hell.
Brandon knows this. It's a mess.
You see the side of my bed and my fucking night stand like it's
just a mess. But it's, it's my mess.
It's organized mess, but whenever I have a strain that
helps me to focus and just get things done, like it's
surprising to other people when I work with them, they're like,
so you, you, you, you smoke. And I was like, yeah, when?
Every day when I don't know What time is it right now?
Yeah, I did about an hour ago. And they're just blown away.
They're like, how do you function?
It's this misconception that so many of us still have that is
it's like, it's just going to dumb me down and slow me down.
It's not always the case. So I my brother I've got a very
straight laced brother and he tried cannabis for the first
time and my cousin decided to let him take a hit on a bong and
he got I I wouldn't say really high but he probably got high
and he. For a second and then went
straight little bit. And then he was like, how do I
get this to stop in the next 10 to 15 minutes?
And I was like, bro, you, you don't.
So I can give you CBD and lemon juice and we'll help, you know,
mitigate that sum. But this doesn't end in 1015
minutes. But for him, it was this, he
doesn't like not being in control and he felt like he
wasn't in control. And it was like, interesting.
What do you not feel in control of?
But then he would disassociate and go to his phone or something
and come back a little bit later.
I'm like, all right, well, we'll talk about this later when
you're not high. Yeah, that's a problem for a lot
of people and, and for someone like that who might be really
sensitive to THC and not want to get out of control, I always
recommend smoking CBD flour. And everyone's like, that's so
lame. You don't feel anything like
what a waste of time. But it's not true.
Like the when you smoke CBD flour, the smoking process
actually produces little bits of THC and that combined with the
0.3% threshold that's already in hemp, you can feel the effects
from smoking CBD flour. And people who are very Naive to
cannabis will definitely feel a little bit high from smoking CBD
flour, but it's not the overwhelming high because it's
mostly CBD with like microdosing THC.
So for my husband who is the same way, he does not like to
feel out of control, He does not like to feel high.
You know, he smokes CBD flour, he smokes CBG flour.
And like, honestly, we probably feel kind of similar after I
smoke a THC joint, he smokes the CBD joint because he's so
sensitive to it and I'm not sensitive at all to it.
So it's like, you know, I think finding quality smokeable CBD
flower is something that's I'm, I'm gonna say relatively new
because for a long time CBD just looked like, hey, and nobody
wanted to smoke it. It was just gross.
Do you have a? Cultivar for that that you like.
So the person that I like to support is Doctor Allison
Justice, who grows in South Carolina.
She's a very talented craft hemp cultivator and I love smoking
her flower. It's super terpy.
That's like 4% terps. It's very flavorful.
So, you know, I highly recommend, you know, checking
her out if you're looking into some quality smokeable CBD
flower. Yeah, we found another 1-2 Stony
Branch farms. In the Midwest, yeah, I.
Can't remember exactly but they had this blueberry waffles
waffles and it's got that blueberry.
Taste. The blueberries.
Like it was it was like smoking some of the like OG blueberry
strain. Yeah, it really was.
And but it was so much more pungent with I mean, and it, it
was different because I I know that feeling of dude, I'm not
smoking him. That's lame.
And it's just because it's like when you're smoking hemp, you're
smoking hemp like there's no, you're, you're not like, oh,
this is a really good flavor. It's usually rough, depending on
the cultivar. Yeah, yeah.
I'm smoking rope. Yeah, it's literally it's, I've
had some rough experiences with him.
But this one was so different and and the reason why it was
so, it was even cooler. Because it was like smoking
flour. Well, we smoked a lot 'cause we,
we wanted to do a whole test on, you know, when you use CBD
flour, it's actually going to bring it down.
And so we got really high before we got set up for this episode
and we smoked this, this hemp and the blueberry waffles and it
was amazing. It was like somebody pulled a
cork out of my taint and then it just started to slowly go down.
You could feel it. It was like, what, 10 minutes?
Down out of your head and that. And it's like.
Just relaxed in your body and stuff.
You know, thinking back on it thinks of like, thinking of like
a pitcher of cold water being poured over you, but you're
really hot and it just slowly like it.
That's what it felt. It felt like we were melting.
We were melting the highway. Feeling of.
Water jumping over your head. Every time I go to the lake I
bring like like a cup and I just dumped water on my head because
it feels. So good.
See, now I now I hit that there. You're going to be like, I need
that kind of flower because that's like it's so amazing and
you're right, and it's way overlooked.
Like typically CBD, like I consume CBD in a teacher,
Brandon typically consumes like that.
But you know, I've got I, I think I still have some of that
blueberry waffles I need to smoke.
Them mine disappeared very fast. I yeah, no, I.
My, my consumption rate is so much lower than his, but I felt
like I, I was getting pretty deep into it.
But I, I love that you are bringing these studies to light
because many of us cannabis consumers still have that in the
back of our head going. This isn't right.
You know, I shouldn't be doing this.
But when studies show that it's very normal, you shouldn't feel
like you gotta hide. Like all my kids know I use
cannabis. Like even last night, my son was
walking up to the front step. I'm outside with my vaporizer,
looking at my phone, checking out video game things.
His girlfriend's like, I'm like, what's up?
She's like nothing. And I'm like, I know you consume
this too, so don't even judge. And she's just like, I'm just
weird. That's just weird.
And I'm like, you know, it's weird.
You don't even see what you're doing.
But it's such a valuable thing for younger people to see people
just being open about it and not ashamed of it.
It's not something to be ashamed about.
Like, it is a healthier way of medicating than almost any other
medicines or escapism mechanisms that we have.
So why aren't we embracing it? And especially as a cannabis
community, you know, telling each other like, oh, you can
smoke hemp. Yeah, I've done it.
You should. You should try this brand.
You should try this strain, whatever.
Like having those conversations also just makes us look like a
much more mature industry that is looking at it from a Wellness
perspective, not just a how fucked up can we get perspective
'cause that's yeah, these conversations are really
important. Well, and it's no longer than
the focus of what is the highest THC percentage.
It's what is the best cannabinoid breakdown or
tierpene profile. What is that impact?
What is the effect going to be for me?
So it's no longer that indica sativa hybrid breakdown.
It's no longer a hey, we've got labeled as 35% THC, which it's
probably not like. You just, it's a lot of messing
with the numbers, just like you said, marketing.
It's just the marketing of it. It's, it's trying to get you to
use their product. And it really it, it really does
come down to the cultivar. It comes down to the nutrients
into the plant and and the observation of the entire life
cycle like it, it really is. It's such a delicate process.
It's not DRY. And cure.
It's so important for quality. But people don't they, they
think that it's just oh, yeah. Well, I'm just here to get
really high. There's so many different
things, like when I look at, you know, either my cartridges or I
look at my flower or my concentrates, each one of them
is like in a they're, they're in a medicine box.
That's why I consider it. And I'm like, what am I
experiencing right now? I'm, I'm feeling this way.
OK, Well, I'm gonna use this type of strain to help with my
gut. I've got a headache.
I'm gonna take this one. You know, I'm, I'm nauseous, but
I'm hung. I'm I haven't eaten in days.
Like cool, I'm going to use this strain.
Yeah, and I think that mentality is kind of residual from
prohibition where it's like, oh, you just go to your plug and you
ask for weed and then you get weed.
Like it's not it's not something that it's like, oh, you know
what cultivar with what ratio of THC to CBD?
Do you have any minor cannabinoids?
Like we didn't know any of that. Like you got a bag of weed.
Hopefully you know and hopefully.
Right. Not like spice or something or
oregano. Like oregano like oregano like
dude, this shit looks like freeze dried broccoli.
Like Nah dude, it's it's fire. Take it.
Oh that would be so spicy. Oh, I feel so bad as somebody
smoked that. It's like that one guy.
But like, we, we didn't even know what a turbine was for so
long. Like that conversation wasn't
even happening for like a long, long time.
And now it's like we're in this amazing world where we have a
legal market and we have research and we have all this.
And like now having the ability to communicate it back to
people. Like that's what people are
striving for is to actually understand this better because
cannabis is such a complex medicine when we compare it to
our gold standard medicine, which is pharmaceutical
medication, which are single isolated compounds produced
synthetically. That's a lot different than a
complex natural product where you have hundreds of different
varieties or strains cultivated in different ways with different
terroirs of soil and we have different aroma profiles.
Like there's so much more to think about with cannabis
medicine and a lot of people aren't used to thinking about
their medicine and that complexity and being in charge
of learning about their own body and their own medicine away from
the traditional healthcare system.
So we do need educators in this space that can help break down
that and help say, OK, you're a medical patient for this reason.
Like check out these products, check out these cultivars.
Like this is what's happening in your body and This is why
cannabis is a medicine for you. Like we need more of that
information to just like we know cannabis is a medicine, but like
bringing validity through science and education is it's
incredibly important. I agree because there's so much
that even every person that we talk to who's outside of
cannabis is like, oh, we need more research, We need this.
And agreed like there's always room for more data.
There's always room For more information to perfect what we
have. And it's been such a regulated
or restricted substance for so long that we don't have lots of
great data. We have some and you know,
Israel's done some great research for us and there's
research that's gone around the world, but we don't have a great
compiled collection of data at this point.
So the research studies that you guys are doing, that sounds
incredible. You said you have 7000 people so
far in the study or around there.
Or is there a way that people can join this study or a site
they can go to to try and be part of that?
If you go to my Instagram or TikTok or YouTube profile, if
you click the link in my bio, the link is right there to
participate in the study. Or you could go to
appliedpharmacognosy.org org which is applied PHARMACOGNOS
y.org and you can find the study link there.
And just to the point of like, we don't have enough research,
we have like 40,000 published papers on cannabis, cannabinoids
and the endocannabinoid system. I genuinely think what we're
missing is 1 practical research, which we are currently,
currently really not allowed to do, as we were kind of talking
about in the beginning, because of a bill or an act that was
initiated in 2022. We're really limited by the
researchers that can participate in cannabis research and the
materials that they can use. Even if you have a DEA license
right now, you cannot walk into a dispensary, pull a bunch of
products off the shelf or purchase them and then just
study them like that. There's a huge limitation that
we cannot study the products that people are actually putting
into their body, and I cannot emphasize that enough.
The products that we have to research are grown by a typical
university cities and the genetics of those products or
that flower does not represent what people are actually putting
into their body. So if we really want practical,
tangible research, we need to be able to research the products
that people are actually using and research the people who are
using it. And then we can actually get to
some answers. But right now we're kind of just
doing this dance like around the legal infrastructure to help
appease some people. But it's like, OK, why are we
dumping millions of dollars into the study?
And if the answer we're going to get from that study is still not
that profound for figuring out any real questions that.
Kind of irrelevant because if you're not even tasting, testing
the same products, then you're like the data doesn't match what
even is out there. So it's like testing apples and
going, hey, this is what orange gives us and you're like, that
doesn't matter. Why are you spending money on
that? And it's to go back to what you
said earlier, you know, there are, you know, when the
government's over there, it's, it's like, it's the, it's the
undercover cop coming to hang out with the other guys going,
hey, what it be guys? Or like, who, who's this guy?
That's the way they're treating the government when they're ever
wanting any type of open study. And it's funny you said that
'cause I was talking to a woman. She's, she does payment
processing, very unique in the cannabis industry.
And she was going on, she asked me how do I get, how do I get
into these circles? I'm like, well, first, do you
use the product? She goes, no, never.
And I'm like, good luck, good luck.
And I said, that's a tight knit community.
Even if I brought you in and I said, hey, you should listen to
this lady. She goes, yeah, would that work?
I'm like, no, there'd be like, well, I don't know her.
I don't trust her. And it's because they have built
this wall. They built this wall.
We didn't build this wall. They totally did.
And they just kept getting thicker and thicker.
And just like it's put so much distance between us.
There needs to be that that bridge in order for those.
I mean, if that's what they need.
But I think it's ridiculous that the government's doing that one
instead of just subsidizing it and being able to give it to
researchers like yourself to go and hey, we need you to gather
this information. And I think you're already on
that way with the, the studies that you're already doing that
are more focused on the consumer aspect, because that helps.
I mean, we've always said that right in, in order for the laws
to be able to change, we need more open consumers to be able
to start asking for it. That's why Utah got passed.
It was 70% of the voters in the state said yes.
We would like to have it legalized here for medicinal
use. Cool.
Yeah. And like having the ability to
also like, use science as advocacy, like data speaks the
best when you're talking to a government organization.
A like, like a state A or a, or a federal government, like you
need to be able to bring up numbers.
And if we have that data in numbers and we also have the
communication aspect where we can share that with people for
them to use for their own advocacy.
That's kind of our goal through the nonprofit is to empower
people in that way to be their own advocate, either with their
physician, with their family, with their government, you know,
whatever it is. Like we provide the data, we
provide the education, and then you can do, you know, whatever
you want with that. So being a non profit, do you
you guys accept donations on your website as well?
Yeah, we do. And I also wanted to just put a
note out there about, you know, we don't necessarily vibe too
well with what the government funds for studies, but the
industry, the cannabis industry has been really great to us.
We've worked with some really large companies and we're still
working with some large companies to help fund more
relevant data kind of outside of these traditional academic
systems. And we're incredibly thankful
for that. You know, seeing these really,
really, really large Msos or even just like edible companies
that are operating throughout all of the States and maybe in
other countries. They have a lot of money.
And they also, you know, it means a lot to us and it also
means a lot to our supporters to see them supporting our research
in that way and, you know, wanting to expand it in a
practical way, kind of for the people, not for the government.
You know, I just get more and more educated each time.
You know, you think you know quite a bit about cannabis, but
you really don't. And it's surprising to us how
many consumers we meet that really have no idea what they're
doing other than this makes me feel something.
Oh yeah, 'cause so many have been like, hey, I've been
listening and I didn't realize that there was a difference in
weed. I've always, like you said, gone
to my plug and just gotten weed. Yeah.
Hey, do you have any weed? Yeah.
And they think that it's all the same and it's not.
There's such a difference in ever even like cultivar to
cultivar, you know, like the terpene profile, the cannabinoid
breakdown, everything is drastically different even in
the same state. So you can really find that
what, like whatever cultivar fits best for you.
And yeah. Yeah, it's.
I I think there's a huge problem here though.
Is that money for a lot of people?
You know, we always say, you know, find the right strain for
your brain, find the right cultivar, but a lot of people
don't have like $200.00 to put towards trying all of these
different cultivars and strains to find which one works for them
the best. So I really like seeing
companies making that more accessible, whether it's making,
you know, quality pre rolls, selling it in a pack of five
with five different cultivars so you can smoke them all and then
figure out which one works best for you.
Just able to like lower that barrier of entry or using
machine learning, using AI, using some sort of large data
set to see what types of people react to things better.
But when we think of this huge gap in information or education
too, it's like, it's not surprising at all to me when I
look at something like a COA, because Coas are not simple like
at all. Most of those words, nobody
knows what they mean. If you're new to cannabis, like
all of those words are just really long science words that
nobody knows. And then they're reported in
percentages like 0.5%, you know, mercy.
And it's like, like, is that a lot?
Not a lot. Like what is that?
What? Is like what the hell is Mira
seen? Yeah, like we.
Need putting dies in it. Right.
Like that's fine for us as like educated people in the industry,
consumer scientists, like we can look at that.
But when we actually are trying to communicate to a new
consumer, I think our industry needs to do a better job of
presenting something like ACOA in a way that's digestible to
somebody who's relatively new to cannabis.
And I know there's a lot of people working on this, but it's
a massive, massive barrier in the industry.
Well, it makes a lot of sense 'cause every COA that I look at
and it's still like OK, cool is yes even accurately tested and
cool yes, I'm looking through it, but at the same time, like
you said, it's like sciency words for a lot of people.
So it's like looking at the back of my ingredients bottle and
going why the fuck is this in there?
Who put? I don't know what this is?
Why is this in there? Does this belong in here?
They're putting this in my weed, yes, that just naturally occurs.
You're fine like but it's this understanding and misconception
and if you don't have that knowledge then it's like.
Well, I think most people who look or even know what ACOA is,
they almost kind of look at it like, you know, the Apple
agreement you get with your update.
You go, I'm not gonna read this whole fucking thing.
Yes, there we go. And they just go, well, it's got
science and numbers on the back. Must be good for me.
Open up the package right. Definitely we need.
Yeah, it's definitely, look at that one, Jerry.
I mean, it's, it's the same way that consumers are looking at
the back of a cereal box. Like they're not looking about
how much niacin's in there. They just want to see the
protein and the sugar content. That's all they care about.
So like you said, it's bring it down to like a really basic
understanding. And as, as we have dispensaries
and other places like that, they're not the best place to
get educated in cannabis. Most of these people have no
idea what they're. So I, I just visited one of our
good friends Dragonfly dispensaries here in Utah.
You know, I visited their dispensary just a little while
ago to get a brand new guy there.
And I said, Hey, we pretty much know everybody there now.
And, and this new guy was there and I was just like, oh man, I
said, maybe you've heard my podcast.
And I tell him he goes, Oh, dude, that's what I need.
I know nothing about this. And it's so sad because it's
like, well, what did you give him?
Well, we gave him a crash course.
We said, this is a plant, Do you use it?
And you go, Yep, cool, don't use it while you're here.
Get in front of a store. That's typically how it's done
everywhere from what we've seen. Yeah, it's sad 'cause there's
not a lot of education among a lot of bud tenders or people in
the industry. And even there's a lot of
companies that have reached out to us over the years and there's
been a lot that we've turned down because again, we realize
they're not consumers, They're not in the industry because they
consume. They're just in the industry
because they go, look, it's a cash cow.
I can make a lot of money. And it's like, you're not in
this industry. You don't, you don't even know
the people. You don't know who your end
users are. You don't truly connect with
them. And I'm not saying that you have
to go out and get high as shit. In fact, I don't support that
for most people because it's finding proper dosing and stuff
for them. And you don't have to get crazy
high like your husband smoking CBD.
He's not getting crazy high. Yeah, he might feel really nice.
He's not getting crazy high, but he at least has an understanding
of what that plant does way better than someone who never
consumes it at all. And those people, I'm like, I
feel much better going. I'm sorry.
We're just not going to have you on the show.
Like, and it's not like it's not they're bad people or bad
companies. It's just there's often times, I
think a massive disconnect between people just coming into
it trying to make money and those who are in it for the
consumer. And it's not to say that they
couldn't come into that community, but there is a
barrier to entry. And if it's you're, if you're
just there, if, if they know that you're there just to make
money, the consumers know that the cannabis community knows
that they don't, they don't take kind to it.
Not that they're gonna be mean. I mean, far from it.
They just like, I choose not to associate with you, Sir.
And, and that, that's it. But it's, I don't know.
I, I think it's amazing what you've been able to accomplish.
I think it's even cooler to think about what the future what
What are some of the future studies that you guys are gonna
be doing if you can reveal that? Yeah.
A lot of our future studies, at least in the laboratory have to
do with the endocannabinoid system, the enzymes, the
receptors and really understanding strain specificity
with the ECS. So that's what we have a
research base at Northeastern University where we do a lot of
our research. So we'll be continuing to, I
can't share too much about like what enzymes and what we're
doing, but a lot of the hard science that we're going to be
doing is involved in the ECS. But some of the current work
we're doing, just advocacy work is actually exactly what you
guys are talking about talking to a bud tender.
And there's so many companies within this industry that don't
allow their employees to use cannabis while they work.
And we're trying to actively start that conversation asking
why? Because if we're trying to set a
standard and a precedence that cannabis is medicine and people
need it for everyday use and it helps with social anxiety and it
helps with so many things, if somebody does feel comfortable
consuming cannabis at work, then we should be the industry that
initiates that and does allow that.
So we have an advocacy advocacy thing called Weird Brains, which
is essentially talking about neurodivergent people within the
cannabis space and how we can better accommodate within the
cannabis space. Because there's a lot of really
beautifully weird people in cannabis.
And we should be embracing that culture and embracing the the
cannabis part of that culture. And, you know, of course there's
some positions where no matter what, you're not going to be
allowed to use cannabis during your daily tasks.
But there's also a lot of positions that can be more
accommodating. And we're just trying to start
that conversation about what it's like hiring, you know,
stoners essentially. And should And should the
cannabis consumer have to hide their cannabis consumption when
they're working at a cannabis company like a lot of?
People are still doing that and. We don't think that that's OK.
Oh, it's ridiculous. Had a little.
Dab we support. That, please, we've been
consuming. But it's the same way here.
We live in a medical only state, meaning it is 100% only a
medicine. So you have to be medically
approved. And the reasons here are chronic
pain is the most approved one. So you're telling me all these
people who have chronic pain 'cause that's like probably at
least 70 to 80% of our market. So then it's going, OK, so
they're not allowed to use medicine during the day that
they work. Oh, and they can't drive either.
They're not. Allowed to drive.
To work and they're not allowed to work and they're not allowed
to do anything to improve their quality.
But it's Madison. You know, they probably have
higher numbers at like credit card companies in their customer
service department. Everybody was baked.
Well, every time I go into Costa Vida for my kids, I see a thing
and it's like, oh, we're hiring, can you smile and roll up your
burrito? And I'm like every Stoner ever.
Like it's just rolling a joint and smiling like, oh shit, I got
this. How you doing?
Roll this? Like how many can I?
Get you, man. Yeah, yeah, that sounds great.
Yeah. Tortilla.
Which rice, man? Yeah, throw it in there.
Just always excited to make that meal like it.
It would, but it would. Literally when I managed to
count and when I had really shitty people that I had to deal
with, it was so much better to take a toke before I went into
the meeting because I was more capable of handling the bullshit
of keeping A level head and just addressing the issues without
going, man, now I'm getting stressed.
Now I can just sit back and go, all right, cool, let's let's
talk this out. Let's listen through it.
And I've been able to do that through so many jobs.
And again, like you said, there's not every job might be
the best suited for that. There's definitely certain times
that I'm doing things that I'm like, no, I feel OK at this
level. I'm not OK at my normal level
because I'm doing something that I don't feel like that would be
smart. And usually that's involving
like saws or something like that.
And then I have a certain level of like saws.
You know, something that's dangerous.
Like we we understand that component.
Yeah. So I'm like, I don't want to
chance any time distortion, delay any hesitation.
Like I don't want to risk it so. I was thinking about juggling
chainsaws, but yeah, I guess that's a no, yeah.
I mean, you, you probably have different skills than I, so you
know, you do you. I can't juggle.
No, but I think about that too. Like there are things, there are
jobs, especially very monotonous jobs where we see a lot of that
coming into white collar jobs are starting to go away in
Mastro's and it's going more towards production or, you know,
manual labor, which is a good turn as well, right?
It is a really good turn. But some of these jobs
absolutely blow, right. Like, Oh yeah, I was a rock
Mason and I would have loved to been high when I was a rock
Mason. Oh yeah, 'cause I would have
been so artistic, just shaped that rock the way I want.
Put that. Yeah, that's a beautiful rock.
A lot of love goes into that. And I think that's when, when
you use cannabis, like anything that you're making, such as, I
mean, anything you do for work, like what you do, you love it.
You absolutely love it. You're not like getting up,
going the pain in the ass job, getting people science medicine.
I blaze all day and my. My.
My Co founder of the nonprofit, like every time we have to write
papers or we'd have to write protocols or SOP any anything
like we use cannabis regularly as a productivity tool.
Like we're like, oh, you want a sesh and like get a bunch done?
Sure. And then that's just our
intention going into that sesh. And we're so much more
productive. We're so much more creative.
We're so much more organic in what we produce that it really
it is a, a, a business tool for us, which sounds kind of crazy,
but like we've, we've been so productive with what we've done
in this nonprofit in the last year and cannabis is an A huge
portion of that. That's awesome.
There's another company that we've heard out out in
California and they have like cannabis and psilocybin at work
that they're employees can use while they're at work for
productivity and stuff. And I'm like, that's really
progressive. But like, how many people look
at it and they're like, oh, and I was thinking about this the
other day. I'm just thinking about like the
stoned ape theory and how they think that comes from mushrooms.
So OK, you're telling me that you think that a monkey got
smarter from eating these mushrooms and yet you're
thinking that we should stay away from these mushrooms or
that they might not make you smarter or help you?
Like why would you? If that's a theory that you
believe in any aspect, why would you think that it would be
harmful for you if it made the monkey turn into what humans
are? And it's also like this is back
to the conversation of dose and like if we just understand that
different doses cause us to feel and react to things differently,
then, you know, we really understand medicine so much
more. Like the company that you're
talking about, they're probably not putting, you know, 4G
capsules of psilocybin out there for everyone to just, you know,
Willy nilly take during the day because then all your employees
are, you know, tripping balls. And that's.
Not off in space talking to God or something.
You're like what? Yeah, good luck looking at a
computer. But like if they're, you know,
.25, but they're micro doses, you know, that is the
productivity, that's the social, that's the energy, that's the
creative and just even I think you were so right about people
taking these substances in order to understand them.
I 100% of people don't have to. But if you really do want to
understand it, try a micro dose of psilostybin.
You're not going to be seeing things happening all around you
and not be able to form words, not be able to do anything.
You're just going to have like a more heightened effect on life.
Things are going to be brighter, you're going to think a little
differently, you're going to be a little more social.
It's a really beautiful thing. And we can't attribute that
microdose to what we're used to seeing with the macro dose.
And macro doses, they're therapeutic.
There's a place for them. But like we, we're trying to
like attribute the same feeling and experience with fully
different doses and it's a completely different experience.
Yeah, microdoses for me. I feel like it's almost like
being a kid again, Like colors are more vibrant, sounds are
more like stimulating, and I just have this endless energy
and I'm like, oh shit, like I could go do all sorts of stuff
and then normal means like, oh man, I'd be so tired, right?
Now what's your micro dose? I just do .1.
I just do a 10th of a gram so between usually .1 to .15 so
it's not usually too high. I'll do 122 and being able to,
I've done two, I've done 3 before.
It was point 3.3. It was, it was decent during the
daytime. Any more than that, I, I start
to feel a little too giggly and I'm like, no, probably not the
best for a business conversation right now.
But I, I remember that I was at a business lunch and it all
kicked in at once and I was like, and he was asking me some
complex questions and I'm like, fuck, what?
Feel like that Tom and Jerry thing?
Like you go what? That's beautiful.
That's yeah, I, I and thinking about that too, microdosing.
We've talked about that with with cannabis and you know, I
actually a client that I'm working with right now, he had
actually stated he's like, I need to be microdosing cannabis.
And that's another thing that people don't think about is that
you can microdose cannabis, you don't just have to get blazed
high. There's a cool product called
Mode that does dosing for 5-10 cartridges.
So you can pop it into there and you can dose it from one to five
5 milligrams and it you pull and it it just you see the counter
go up and when it's it hits that point it it stops, that's it.
That's all you get and that's really cool on that side.
It'd be cool to see that like in a vaporizer, but that's pretty
hard. You got to bake the bowl and I
have no idea where you're pulling there.
I just there's a graduation of of when you use the product and
I think it's the weed back when you were 14 is totally different
from today and that you you can't smoke a joint with
somebody feeling all right, depending on what you have in
there and this big push for high THC, somebody's going to have a
real bad experience. I think about your brother all
the time. I'm like, man, that sucks.
He had a bad time. Like, I don't know how that's
possible. I remember when I was first
getting back into it. Yeah, but again.
But it was not the best he's. So straight, and I was thinking
about it, he's so straight laced, he doesn't utilize
caffeine, he doesn't use anything, no stimulus.
So he is not used to any distortion of his reality in the
slightest. So to have all of a sudden a
good amount of cannabis that was like this sent him in there and
he was like, I can't do complex math problems.
I'm like you don't need to be doing complex math problems
right now. Did he have like an anxiety
attack? Is that what it like resulted in
essentially? Not not, I think a minor one,
but in his mind more, it was just more he was sitting there
and he's like, I don't understand.
He's like, now I could see how people could use this.
Like if you didn't have a job and you didn't care about
anything so sad. So you just like whatever it did
with his mind, it just made him feel so dumb and so disconnected
or whatever. And I'm like, well, that's
probably dosing again. It's you've never been distorted
in like any sort of way it. Was a minor psychedelic
experience that he was experiencing.
I mean I could understand that cause.
So it's like the. First time doing psilocybin,
you're like, it's like my first time doing LSD.
When I did that, he was back when I was getting out of the
Navy and I got four hits on sugar cubes and as my first time
and I didn't know what he gave me.
He's just like, put this in your mouth, don't you?
I'm like, all right. And then the the carpet starts
moving and the trees are swaying, but there's no wind.
And it was just it was intense and lasts for 12 hours.
It was it was quite remarkable. But you know, when somebody has
those experiences like that, like even at that dose for them
to I I don't know, I think there's needs to be like a
process that many times we sometimes forget as long time
consumers with new consumers. It really needs to be a very
baby step going through it. And and yeah, like hemp exactly
like I'm gonna smoke. You're gonna smoke this first.
You might feel a little bit of these things and then gradually,
but teach them about that. Like there's what the body's
going to go through. Here's how you're going to
experience these. Chemicals.
Then you can mix the hemp with the THC.
Cannabis, right one. Cannabis and slowly find your
kind of perfect dose and titrate in and I think that's like a
great tool and like slowly getting used to it because we
often think of just like consuming a little bit and then
a little bit more and then a little bit more.
You can consume the same amount, but just control your ratio of
hemp flour to THC dominant flour.
And like we take the same amount but control the level of active
ingredients in that way. And also like back to the
setting, setting conversation that we were having and what you
guys were talking about, I found with my husband, sometimes when
he consumes cannabis, not at our house, like just like somewhere
else, like on a nature walk or something, he reacts better
because like at our house, there's more of a chance of
somebody stopping by or something happening where he
does need to use his brain. But if we're kind of isolated in
a situation where not much can go wrong, I think he reacts
better to it because he can just kind of enjoy the moment and not
have to be like, what if, you know, what if this happens?
What if this happens? Because at home, there's all the
regular everyday things that can occur.
But if you're out of nature, you're, you know.
The one thing I do find pretty cool with cannabis, though, is
that even it like say a, a dangerous situation arises.
I find that my adrenaline kicks in right away and it almost
nullifies how I'm feeling. So it's it's not worried about
those things. Like if you know that you get
you're very sensitive to cannabis, guess what?
Plan on not driving, just plan on it.
But if you're pretty good with it, I mean, I, I will, I'm
always open. I'm like, yeah, I consume.
Well, I'm I've before, she said. Over 60% of them are driving and
consuming like they. I'm in the 64.
Percent. Yeah, me too.
Yeah, 100. Percent I'm open about.
It well, it's when you consume all the time and there was even
a like a video study that was done with some UHP in some state
and they found that people were basically fine up to a gram of
smoking, like this one gram joint.
And it was like, OK, by that point of a gram, their reaction
was a little bit slower. But for like the medical
consumers or everyone else, it's like you're OK.
Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, because you're putting
them in a disassociated state and they had no idea what
they're getting into. They're like, here, you join
this study here, smoke this and get behind the wheel.
And they're like, and it's like some sweet old lady over there
going, I've never tried the grass.
And then she just starts driving and she starts swerving all over
the place. They're like, oh, see, ruined
you. Oh.
My gosh, we were Frank Sinatra. We were listening to some Frank
Sinatra the other day and my oldest was like, dad, is is
grass weed? And I was like, yes, grass is
weed. There was just like, OK, because
it just come out in the song and I'm like, Oh yeah.
But it's it's interesting. Just all the difference it
terms. It was good.
I was just going. To say like we also don't get
inside because people with higher tolerances, daily
consumers, we have less cannabinoid receptors because
we've built a tolerance. So that like how we build
tolerance is our body actually takes away some receptors so
that we like literally don't feel the same amount as high.
So it makes sense for this research, which I love that the
study came out just showing that people with higher tolerances
that you don't, you don't have any implications for your you to
drive a motor vehicle. And I think we know that's true
because we have a higher tolerance.
And it's like we're more comfortable with so many
different things happening while we're consuming cannabis that,
you know, as you guys are saying, it's not the same like
fight or flight. I've never felt this way before.
I don't know how to react in like that stressful situation,
you know, because we've been through, we've lived our whole
lives like this, just our norm, like we're used to it.
Why I it's been a couple of years, but I rode motorcycles
for years and I would consume and then I would go ride.
And for me, I become hyperaware. And then I noticed, OK, this
person as I'm coming up on them, their eyes are looking down.
They're probably on their phone, They're distracted.
I'm going to just where I'm at in this lane.
Like I became hyperaware of everything then.
I've never gotten an accident through then, but I've always
consumed cannabis and they've gotten in really weird instances
that my bike's like done really scary shit.
But again, you just become like so ingrained in that moment.
But I think cannabis really allows that.
It's allowed everything else to disappear that I can just it
literally became the bike was an attachment of me and I would
feel everything. So yeah, it's it's a very
different experience when you but and.
It's also to be self aware on that, like know exactly where
you are. Just like you stated, you know
your dose. It has to be slowly figured out.
Don't trust the budtender going. These gummies are amazing.
You should try them too, because it's you're not thinking about
the the ramifications of what you are consuming.
If you're new to it, if you if you're a legacy user, or at
least I mean, I would say like a a little over a couple years.
Usually that's when you feel a little bit more comfortable
knowing a lot more about it. Like really listen to your your
friends that do consume consistently.
Listen to our podcast, listen to your podcast where you're going
to learn more about it in depth where it's not so much of I just
use this to get high. Now you start looking at it as a
medicine cabinet or a tool toolbox because it truly is.
It's either one and you can utilize it in any way you want
to. It's just taking the time and
being really open about it. I think that's by far the most
important thing is being open about it, 'cause why?
Why hide it? My, my, I mean, everybody who
knows me, when I have the joke going on all the time, people
say, what do you do? I said, I smoke pot for a
living, what do you do? And they go, Nah, it's it.
They, you'd think that a lot of people just as far as like what
you would assume that people would be like, well, we're done
talking here, Sir. It's more on.
So where do you get it? They're so open.
They are really wanting to do this, and they've just got this
weird stigma that they just can't let go of.
They're afraid. Yeah.
And I, I also like around the conversation of cannabis and
driving. I think it's also very
responsible for our community to understand that even as a
seasoned cannabis user, you still can be too high to drive
like that's. Totally.
Yeah, as you were talking about, that one gram was the limit for
most people. And for me, I used to not take a
lot of dabs. I was just smoking flour.
And then I'd rip a dab and be like having a borderline like,
yeah, just insane, overwhelming experience.
I was still having a good time, but would I hop in a vehicle?
Absolutely not. I didn't even think about doing
that. But as a consumer, you know that
I feel like most seasoned cannabis consumers feel that.
And when I would get to that feeling of like, hey, I feel
high. Usually for me, that's when I
don't feel OK to drive is hey, I feel high.
I don't normally feel high. So for me, if I'm going, oh
shit, I feel high, I'm not going to be driving, I'm not going to
be behind the vehicle. I'm going to have like cannabis
in my system. But I'm, you know, that's way
different than being high. The.
Classic Dude I'm so high right now.
If anyone says those exact words, they should not hop in a
vehicle. Yeah, they've stopped talking.
They're not even snacking anymore.
They're more or less just staring and slow moving.
I don't know. Why are you moving so slow?
Because there's tracers Princess.
You know, I remember going on a ride in the passenger seat on a
micro dose or on like AI guess more of a macro dose of
psilocybin. But my buddies were going out
and I was like, yeah, it might be fun to go on an adventure.
And I'm like, but I don't want to drive.
And they're like, no. And I'm like, yeah, I could
like, but I'd chill in the seat. Like I'd go cruise around.
And I feel it's kind of the same way when you use cannabis and
you actually feel high. You don't want to drive.
Like you're like, no, I'm OK. I that doesn't sound good at
all. I chill.
Like we could go cruise, but I just want to sit there.
I don't want to do the driving. I'll play great music, I'll
facilitate great conversation, but I just don't want to be the
one controlling the vehicle. Yeah, but I feel like that's
usually with, it's not the same confidence that alcohol gives
you that you're like, Oh yeah, no, I'm good, I can get behind
it. You're like, oh shit.
Look, the, the I drive better when I'm drunk.
I, I, I, I remember those say those, these rednecks I hang out
with all the time. The guy with the mullet, right?
He'd be like dude, and he'd, he'd do that with the hair, you
know, just whip it around. I'm, I'm so much better driving
when I'm drunk. Just give me a case of Natty's
and I'm good to go. Hey, no, I did we, we just know
that it's, I don't know you. You become more in touch with
yourself and who you are and where your limits are.
And, and sometimes, I mean, there are individuals like some
of the ones we talked about within social media.
They used to be educational. Now they're just like watch me
do A1 gram dab like. Watch me get as high as I can.
Yeah, it's like. Stop doing.
That if I wanted to see someone get as high as they could, I
think that would be me. That guy's going to be Why?
Would I want to watch you get as high as you could?
That sounds really fucking boring.
Pass. And they just, you just see
them, they just look like, they look like Elvis Presley before
he died. They just like they just make
sounds they don't really have. You guys greened out before?
I have a couple times. No, no.
It's pretty uncomfortable, I'm not gonna lie.
I greened out for the first time like just a few months ago.
I was making can of butter for my parents 'cause I make them
caramels and I just like happened to be gifted a bunch of
pierogies and I was like, oh sick, I'm going to dip them in
the butter. And then I ended up eating way
too much butter and then it like I got sick for the first time.
I've heard of people like vomiting, using too much
cannabis. I was vomiting, I was sick.
The room was spinning like like I had drank like a ton of
alcohol and used a bunch of cannabis.
Like. Spinning like I had to put on a
weighted blanket and like literally just like sip water
and like wait it out. It was.
It was very uncomfortable. I think edibles would be the
only thing that would maybe do that, but it would have to be
close to like probably 1000 milligrams and it's been so long
since I've done anything even remotely close to that.
I don't like edibles, I've never liked them.
And then that experience made me say like, hey, maybe I just
should never touch an edible again, 'cause no.
Yeah. Yeah, I I've had that.
I've I've had one instance where I greened out.
I had an edible before we hung out.
We smoked a bunch of flour and then we were messing with
terpenes and dripping. Terpenes on on top of the bowl
of the experience. And we're like, dude, let's move
the high around our faces, man. And then it was like going to my
forehead and then it'd go to my cheeks and then the back of my
head, not knowing that I am overloading myself with so much.
Like people go, Oh yeah, the terpenes.
That'd be fine. Like no, no, no, that's.
Like was that also when we created the mafics, like those
edibles that were twice the dose, was that the time?
So you did you have one of those that.
Time. Yeah, we called them.
That's what it was. We even wrote that on the box.
The fuck? Because it was accidentally a
double dose and for him that was way too high.
But it didn't kick in yet and so we smoked.
I felt fine. I'm like, all right, dude, I'm
going to take off. I'm going to go home and I get
in the car and I get about 5 miles away from the house and
then I'm just like, where am I? I don't even what the fuck,
what's going on? And I didn't know what was going
on. And I drove home just freaking
out the whole time. I get home and I am a good
actor. My wife goes.
How's it going? Oh, pretty good.
Hold on a second. Go downstairs, call Brandon up.
Freaking fuck out. I think I had too much.
He's like, go a bunch of CBD, chill out.
Go back on 1/2 hour. You should be feeling fine.
But all right. I tell my wife she was sitting
with our little ones at the at the time.
I'm like, hey, I'll come in here and sit with the kids.
You sure? Yeah.
I just need to stay in one spot.
Oh, my gosh. And then we had it on the show
where we had the, what's it called, the little foggy.
Oh, the Zenco duo. So you seen those?
It looks like a little genie lamp and it does concentrates or
510 threads. So it's you.
You start it up with a 510 inside of there in your
cartridge and then when you push the button it'll heat up and it
starts to slowly fill this wine glass with smoke.
Now it's taken per hit though the whole thing is equal to like
about 30 hits. It's a good amount of hits at.
Once Dang on a concentrate and so I had 1/4 of it and I go and
I'm like, it's really cool looking too 'cause it's like
you're sipping your smoke. And as soon as I hit that, I
looked over at Brent. It was.
Wild. Oh and I didn't even get close
to that. I was like around 10 and I all
the sudden like we start getting into the show and I'm like, Oh
no. He was freaking out.
Oh. Shit but my when?
You're being recorded and you're way too high.
And well, just thought about you on stage, you're like, Nope,
this is. Not not gonna do that.
Undo. Undo.
Can I leave? It was, but I mean, the whole
time I'm thinking I'm like, but this is me.
Yeah, dude, I think I'm freaking out.
Like it's totally, it's just not, it's not good.
I mean, in my head though, is totally different.
And that's something to say too. Like, you know, just because
you're not showing it on the outside, like you're not
convulsing and and freaking out and running around doesn't mean
you're not having a bad time. It's horrible, just like you
talked about spinning, throwing up.
Yeah, and I love the feeling of being elevated, like I love my
normal state, but it yeah, the the edible high is 1
unpredictable. Like for me, like different
formulations, even like same dose, different formulation,
different company will hit me different.
And it's just like sedating to me where I can smoke and like go
do a bunch of stuff. And I'm very like lively edibles
just always make me lethargic, like sleepy, tired like every
single time. I usually use edibles when I
travel because when I'm traveling, I know that if I'm
Rd. trips, if I'm in a car for a long period of time, I hurt.
I have a cracked disc and I have a really messed up back.
And I'm a really small guy, so I need to work out more and build
that up. But my back always hurts.
So when I go on road trips, I take 200 milligrams every two
hours. And yeah, but I don't feel high.
That's literally just like taking the edge off and I could
still puff on a pen or a vaporizer and not be high still.
So edibles usually for me, I don't ever use them because they
don't I'd have to have a loot like a ridiculous amount to
actually feel high. Insane.
Yeah, so. Well, that's, we actually have
really cool data on that too. When we took that survey with
the like 5000 people that we're going to publish about 16% of
people can't feel edibles or it takes an extremely high amount
to feel edibles. So that's like, I mean, we know
that it has to do with your liver enzymes and how
efficiently it can essentially process the THC or if at all.
But you know, there may be a way to also formulate around that,
but we haven't really explored it because this data has never
been published that such a high percentage of the population
doesn't metabolize edible. At interesting pace.
That most people do. I know I used to feel them a lot
lower. I used to be able to feel 10
milligrams, 30 milligrams. I remember my first 100
milligram edible, that one was like in a wild high at the time.
But then over the years, 100 milligrams doesn't even touch
me. We've had some company brought,
they brought them on the show and they're like, oh, here, took
one right before and then I took another one like an hour in and
they were sitting there and they're like a corner.
You feeling it? I'm like, I might, I feel like a
little tingling in my back. So I might be feeling it and I'm
like but I'm honestly not sure because I don't really feel high
at all. That's insane.
But that is insane because we had like, out of all the social
media posts that he put out, one of them, he visited a float tank
and he's like, yeah, I just had just had a 250 milligram edible
about to get into the float tank.
And the comments were hilarious. They were just like freaking out
or so. They're like, oh, that could.
Also have another. Attack in space.
Because like, you go float around and you're weightless.
It's dark. There's no like you can turn off
sound. It's amazing.
You got to do it. You, you, you know, just get one
of those places around there going.
This is for science. And they go, OK, like you'll be
a part of it. We'll give you, we'll put you in
the notes. Yeah, they have true rest float
spas around the country. That's the franchise that's here
that I went to, and they have some really cool ones.
Oh yeah, that's been a night. We did it once.
I've, I've done it several times.
It's pretty cool. It it's funny because it even
has like on the questionnaire, where'd you hear about this?
And it goes through all the other ones out at the bottom,
Joe Rogan. And everybody's like, yeah, it's
like, you just gotta float. And you know, I didn't even.
Hear of it from him. It was some other friend of my
ex-wife and she was, she had gone on a week long silent
meditation retreat. And I was like, that sounds
wild. Like that sounds really cool
'cause I was a lot more into my meditative practice then.
And she was telling me about this float spa.
I was like, that sounds really cool.
And she's like, you're weightless.
You float around. It's kind of like, you know what
I imagine floating in space would be like?
And I was like, in my head I'm just thinking, yeah, I'd totally
smoke and go do that. And I've done that every single
time. I end up being friends with the
like franchise owner there of the location and came back and
like microdosilocybin and did it end up giving him psilocybin and
he did it in there like just end up being this cool, really cool
relationship that built through there.
But if you haven't tried it, it's worth checking out SO.
I'm actually going, I actually know somebody who runs a
business that has float tanks and I'm going to visit in like a
week, so hopefully I can do it then that.
Sounds. Oh yeah, that sounds way cool.
Yeah, it's been probably a year. I need to go back and do it.
It's a good time. Psilocybin with water is always
a amazing experience. Like my one of my best mushroom
trips ever was at the ocean and just like playing in the waves
like a dolphin, just like I mean having the time of our lives
playing in the water. I just had images of her.
Oh yeah, everything you're picturing is exactly what
happened. Like.
OK. Was this a micro dose or was
this a full dose? This was somewhere in between
what like Shulgin would call like a a museum dose.
So like around like a gram. I'd say under 2G to me is that
sort of medium dose. Yeah, OK.
I went and saw John Mayer on like 1.5 and there was a minute
that it was a bit intense and so I just went up to the higher
parts of the stands where there wasn't many people.
And just sat up there for about 20-30 minutes and watched it and
it was amazing up there. And then I went back down and
hung out with my friends and everyone else after.
But. What, what I'm like in public
doing mushrooms in any capacity. I, well, I actually almost do
this every time anyways, I just stack my dose.
I take .5 at a time so that the come up is like not as intense.
You have a much more gentle come up and you can again, like
titrate your dose so much easier because if you're set and
setting do change or you're like, Oh, I don't love the way
I'm feeling like you're not too far into it, but you can't undo
like usually you're still at a relatively comfortable level and
you can just be like, Oh, I'm just simply not going to take
more. And then that's the end of the
of that journey. You know, it's like I usually
give myself just a lot of time to titrate 'cause that's how
personally my brain reacts best to to psilocybin.
Yeah, I never did that when I was starting because no one
taught me anything. I had a buddy who was like, oh,
hey, you came back in, You're trying to process something.
You definitely need a hero dose. And I was like, yeah, I probably
do. And he was like, I'm going to
make you a smoothie, OK. And I'm like, sure.
I was like, he'll tell me how much was in it the next day.
So I drank the smoothie and it ended up being like 6G.
But that was not a, you know, try and stair step or titrate
anyway into things. It was just a this is the
journey you're going to have. And sometimes I feel like that
is actually needed for. Man, your your entry into any of
these things is like, you know, like the dad over there going
son, you're going to learn how to swim and then you throw them
off the dock. It's like dad, I'm drowning.
That's why you got to move your arms and legs.
Get on over here. Come to the sound of my voice
like that just sounds like crazy, dude.
That's that's intense like your buddies like for me it.
Was like that wasn't my first. One Gram was my first experience
on on psilocybin and it was fantastic.
I was playing my Switch. My wife came over there.
We had the most open conversation.
She goes, what are you on? I'm like, oh, I hate these.
She's like, awesome. I was introduced to LSD before
psilocybin same and so like the LSD kind of like yours but a
little different. My buddy was like hey, April
Fools is coming up and I'm going to sneak you guys LSD.
You won't know because it's pays list.
I can put it on whatever food or in your drink or anything, and
then you'll just be tripping. And I knew absolutely nothing
about LSD. Oh yeah.
So I started researching it and I was like, I found even like
the government classification of how dangerous drugs are and
stuff, and LSD was way below cannabis.
And I was like, that's interesting because they hold a
patent for cannabis. No one's ever died from cannabis
and I use cannabis every day. So then after that I started
researching more of the effects and like what happens with it.
So then April Fools came around and me and my buddy willingly
took it instead. So we actually all just took LSD
together and had our first experience.
And then after that I found out, oh wait, psilocybin's like
supposedly less dangerous than LSD and it's like down here and
it's got all these other benefits and stuff supposedly.
So then when I tried that, it was, you know, even less scary
because LSD was like a holy cow, I have no idea.
And then we had someone show up and the set and setting shifted.
And it turned from a great experience into instantly a not
great experience for the three of us.
And we end up sending this other person home.
The three of us needed to separate to our own areas.
And about 20 minutes later, we all came back together and we're
just fine. But it was like this thing of
that set and setting, someone came in, the energy changed,
everything changed. And it instantly became a, oh,
crap. We didn't trust the person who
showed up. And it instantly put in this
fear of trust of like, wait, do we trust this person?
Do we trust this other person? It was like, I've known this kid
since kindergarten. Like I've known him for 30
years. We've been friends for a long,
long time. Like, I know who this person is.
And as we, you know, came out of that, it became a, like, we were
just fine. And we had some really profound,
incredible discussions. And it was just like a what the
hell? But you think about those things
and there are these drugs or scary terrible things that were
taught never to try growing up or to stay away from 'cause it,
you know, fries your brain or makes you stupid or, you know,
ruins your life. Yes.
So all of that, all of the above.
All of it. That's none of us are productive
in this call. Righty what's been one of the
most rewarding things for you? Being in the cannabis industry.
I think just being able to represent stoners in such a
positive light and start to bring that word back to us.
I think for a long time the word Stoner was thought of as, you
know, this really negative connotation type thing to
represent a daily cannabis user. And I think our data, you know,
we can, as I mentioned before, like use it as advocacy to kind
of represent that stoners aren't what our society wants us to
think Stoners are. Stoners are productive, stoners
are CEOs, stoners are doctors, stoners are, you know, all of
these people in our society. And just normalizing cannabis as
a medicine. Because I've gotten a lot of
hate for just being as loud as I am about being a daily consumer
and using cannabis as much as I do.
But at the end of the day, I have a successful career.
I have a happy life. I'm doing OK by my standards and
it's mainly, I shouldn't say mainly due to cannabis, but
cannabis has been alongside for the entire journey and I owe a
lot to this medicinal plant. So just being able to represent
her in a positive light it, you know, it's feels really good for
me. That's cool to see though,
because like you said, the word Stoner, we've tried to stay away
from it because the Stoner stigma has been so negative.
Yeah, I call myself a functional Stoner and they go, is that
true? Like, yeah, totally.
I mean, it's it's not a it's not a bad thing.
And exactly. I think we just need to be more
open about it. And that's that's what we do.
That's what you do. And I think that's hilarious.
You're getting smoke for that just like, because like, oh, you
really should keep that down. Well, you really should use it,
friend, because you're being a Dick.
OK, now I'm going to go on stage and educate people while you sit
back here and be a sour ass. All right.
For like why? It's just cool, like our whole,
our whole industry, everyone's loud and proud, or at least most
people are. And just seeing the industry
grow and more people feel comfortable with it.
And even outside of the industry, people feeling more
comfortable being open about it because we are starting to get
rid of that negative connotation with just using cannabis.
But it's still here for sure. You'll know that if anybody
around you, if you're smoking in the city or something and
someone takes a whiff, you know, there's always some faces.
It's about like, oh, not here, not not in front of other
people. And it's like we.
Don't think about the children, think about the children.
They're puffing on a a cigarette where like we know second hand
smoke is so dangerous. That's terrible.
That's funny. So Riley, where can our audience
find you or get in touch with you if they want to check out
your show, if they want to follow your social?
Yeah, all of my links are on my social pages, which are Hannah
became so Cann A/B ICHEM. I'm on Tiktok, Instagram,
YouTube, and my podcast is on all mainstreaming platforms and
that's called bio active, but it's also LinkedIn, my
Instagram, and it has an Instagram of its own if you want
to follow along. We'll actually have all those
links down below so you guys can start going towards those guys.
Go over there, sign up for the study.
Absolutely. I mean, come on, you're helping
science. Science.
But not like governmental science, but like.
No, but trust science. Supported by cannabis consumers
to help cannabis consumers. Yeah.
The more information we have, the more we're going to be able
to start getting more openness about this and then we can start
being able to change the products that we have to be more
tailored towards what kind of experience we're seeking.
So everybody, thank you so much for being here today.
Riley, this is awesome. I see a long term friendship
between US. And for everyone at home, we
love you guys. Hey, thanks so much guys.
Take care.