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Welcome to another episode of 
Facts. 

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I'm your host Steven Boyce, 
joined by my Co host Pat May. 

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Good evening, Steven. 
Good evening. 

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All right, well, we chose the 
topic to spend a little bit of 

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time on the next few episodes 
dealing with Paul's epistles, 

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writings, and really how 
Protestants have misunderstood. 

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And we are throwing ourselves 
into that category because we 

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had a lot of situations where we
were teaching a certain way and 

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sometimes we did things maybe 
ignorantly in an unbelief. 

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I think Paul said that as well. 
But one of the things that we 

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want to kind of dissect today, 
particularly as we're going to 

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spend some time between Romans 
one and three, and we're going 

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to look at the subject of Paul 
and how he dealt with the 

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subject of sin, how we 
understood condemnation. 

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Also kind of talk about looking 
at Paul from a new lens in a way

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where humanity needs to be 
looked at differently too. 

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Not just sin, but humanity in 
the state of sin. 

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Because I think in our 
Protestant backgrounds, that's 

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been altered a little bit. 
Very much so, yeah. 

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We'll get into that. 
But that's going to be a good 

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thing to discuss. 
Well, let's establish some 

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boundaries here, because history
tells us as well as Scripture 

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with history, that this isn't a 
new situation that's never been 

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heard of before. 
We're going to bring up on the 

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screen for you the letter second
Peter chapter #3 and we're going

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to see what he says about this 
here specifically. 

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So go ahead and read for us in 
our passage. 

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Second Peter chapter 3, verses 
15 really, and 16, but 

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particularly what he says about 
Paul's writings and what people 

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were doing with them. 
Yeah, I guess I'll read from the

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RSV edition, but here's what 
Peter says. 

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And count the forbearance of our
Lord as salvation. 

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So also our beloved brother Paul
wrote to you according to the 

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wisdom given him. 
Speaking of this as he does in 

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all his letters. 
There are some things in them, 

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hard to understand, which the 
ignorant and unstable twist to 

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their own destruction as they do
the other scriptures. 

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As they do the other scriptures.
Meaning one of the things that's

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going on is that there are 
people in in the time of Peter 

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and Paul who had Paul's letters,
which tells us there's already a

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Pauline corpus, and Peter had 
already believed that the 

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Pauline corpus was scripture. 
Yeah, it's graffe. 

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The Greek word is graffe, but he
he basically aligns that with 

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the rest of the scriptures, 
probably meaning in his mind the

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Old Testament. 
Maybe. 

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I would think so. 
You know something else? 

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But yeah, most likely the Old 
Testament and or at least his 

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view of whatever, whatever the 
Canon might be and Peter's mind 

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of the Old Testament, we've had 
that discussion. 

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Before, but he quotes from 
Enoch. 

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I'm just saying I'm not saying 
he believed that was scripture. 

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I'm I'm not saying that. 
In fact, I would argue that he 

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didn't believe. 
That, but yeah. 

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That their their categories were
a little bit different. 

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Is what I'm trying to say. 
And that's the point. 

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Yeah. 
But he does equate Paul's 

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writings with all the scripture.
And again, this is something we 

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need to hold in context, right? 
Historically, Peter writes this 

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while Paul is still alive, and 
this is most likely written 

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maybe in the early to mid 60s. 
Yeah, they're probably close to 

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death. 
They're He's speaking about 

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death earlier in the book. 
Yeah, and, and and this is like 

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you said, this is happening in 
their time, in real time. 

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He is already seeing Saint 
Peter, is already seeing 

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evidence of those who are 
misinterpreting and misreading 

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Paul's letters. 
That's crazy. 

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So if they're going to do that 
when the Prince of the apostles 

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is alive and Paul himself, who's
able to correct them, is alive 

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or very close to death, it may 
be at worse. 

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Paul had died before Peter. 
Doesn't seem to be the way it 

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seems to be. 
Peter, Paul. 

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Yeah. 
Who? 

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They died probably around the 
same time, right? 

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Regardless of how you date. 
And under the same Nero. 

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Or John. 
John is probably still alive. 

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Some of these other apostles or 
even some of their successors 

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like Jude, probably, we don't 
know. 

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But at the end of the day, they 
do seem to have Apostolic voices

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still on the planet that can do 
exactly what Peter just did, 

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say, hey, be careful. 
There's people twisting, 

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manipulating and using it for 
their own destruction while they

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think they're using it for their
own advantage. 

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And so he had a high value of 
Paul's letters. 

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And when we look at the 
Protestant Reformation and we 

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deal with some of the, the, the 
subjects that came into play 

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from whether it's Luther or 
Calvin or later reformers, the 

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typical debates, the typical 
fights theologically end up 

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coming from Romans, Galatians 
and 1st Corinthians and some of 

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these other. 
Paulines too. 

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There's a major climactical 
approach to the debate when it 

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came to the theology in Paul. 
Definitely. 

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I mean. 
This, this was, you know, the 

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whole solo FIDE argument from 
Luther stem from his supposed 

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studies between Romans and 
Galatians. 

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Yeah, especially Romans 328, 
which is how he interpreted 

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Romans 3 and and other passages.
Of course. 

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But if scripture can be twisted 
and and the consequences are 

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destruction, then scripture 
requires authoritative 

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interpretation, which I think is
what you were alluding to. 

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Peter and Paul had to correct 
how others were miss were 

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mishandling Paul's letters. 
And it also notes that Peter 

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confesses some of these things 
are hard to understand. 

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So there's the doctrine, the 
so-called reformed doctrine of 

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perspicuity come into play. 
You know that everything is 

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clear. 
Well, obviously in in Saint 

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Peter's mind, that's not true at
all. 

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Like these things are hard and 
difficult to understand. 

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And if Peter can say that, then 
we shouldn't have a problem 

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admitting that. 
That's ourselves. 

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That's right. 
That's a. 

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Tough saying, I mean and and the
apostles had no problem showing 

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that kind of struggle at times 
even in Jesus ministry. 

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Jesus is hard. 
Yeah. 

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Like John chapter 6. 
Yeah, like Lord, this is hard 

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but but we know you have the 
words of life. 

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And so they knew there was 
something unique about Jesus 

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teaching even. 
If they and his parables were. 

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But what we see also here is 
that, like you said, not only is

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there a divine scripture that 
has been proclaimed, the 

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difficulty of understanding it 
also shows it needs a divine 

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voice to affirm, in my opinion. 
I've argued this by defending 

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Second Peter's authenticity. 
By the way, I've done an entire 

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episode on that. 
I just did a lecture recently on

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that on multiple channels as 
well, but it is on our channel. 

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If you want to go back to the 
archives. 

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I've defended the authenticity 
of Second Peter, and I do 

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believe Peter's behind it. 
Probably not. 

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Whether he's dependent or not is
is worthy of argument, but I do 

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see here a petron office 
operating to affirm a doctrinal 

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belief and a corpus of fellow 
apostles by him affirming Paul's

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letters was almost putting the 
Roman seas approval on the 

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letters of Paul to be circulated
in the churches while also 

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recognizing people or abusing 
them. 

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So we have a divine authority on
earth who is intervening and and

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actually clarifying that there 
are things going on around 

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Paul's letter that need to be 
careful. 

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And so as we look at this, he's 
calling it scripture. 

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He's saying it's being twisted. 
It's very difficult to 

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understand. 
And So what we have to be 

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careful of not only just, you 
know, while the Protestants, you

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know, butchered Paul, well, we 
can all do it. 

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We can all do it, yeah. 
This is why we need the living 

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and abiding voice of the Lord 
through the person he has left 

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on earth in order to give 
thority and keys to do the very 

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work that we're talking about. 
There are guard rails and and 

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the church, by the way, for 
those who don't know this, the 

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church is given a large amount 
of latitude for disagreement 

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within interpretation. 
There's not we talked about. 

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This. 
Not everything is dogma. 

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It's a church about dogmas, but 
they're not very dogmatic about 

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their dogmas. 
And and then I've said that 

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before, like they have dogmas, 
but within the dogma, there's a 

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lot of latitude some time as 
well. 

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So, so let's kind of let's jump 
into that. 

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Let's talk about Romans, 
particularly one through 3. 

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And these are the three main 
things that we're going to hit 

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today. 
Sin, justification and works of 

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the law. 
I mean, you can categorize, 

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categorize that in one way and 
just put subcategories under it.

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But many Protestants pack come 
to these passages particularly, 

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and they approach Paul assuming 
a couple of things. 

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Fallacy #1 works. 
When they see the word works of 

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the law especially, they 
understand that, and we have 

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been taught this our whole 
lives, that works are a act of 

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obedience or do goods. 
Anytime we see it. 

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Any any act of good. 
Any any place in Scripture, 

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that's what. 
That's how we would understand 

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the word works. 
And so with that comes grace and

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works or obedience are not 
actually harmonious and that 

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they can both exist together, 
but that they are actually rival

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to each other. 
That's right. 

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Yeah, they are, they are 
opposing each other. 

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They're they're not working in 
harmony with each. 

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Other now I can hear some 
Protestants in the comments 

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section now fighting back saying
now wait a minute, hold on. 

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You know, we we believe faith of
that works is dead. 

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But yeah, but you you do 
pretzels and backflips and 

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manipulative moves to come up 
with some kind of explanation to

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harmonize Peter or to harmonize 
Paul and James because in my I 

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sat through Paul in the epistles
class and I asked a lot of the 

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tension questions then didn't 
like the answers I received even

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at that point. 
But here's the thing. 

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I mean there is a tension there 
that Protestants deal with that 

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Catholics and Orthodox don't 
have to deal with it. 

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It's it it's not an issue for us
as we understand works and grace

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1/3 fallacy is that they believe
Paul was attacking Sacramento or

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covenantal religion itself. 
Or the word religion. 

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The word religion and again, 
yeah, this is where the rivalry 

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comes in with James. 
Yeah. 

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And by the way, for Protestant 
want to fight us in this. 

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There's a reason that Luther 
didn't like the book of James. 

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There's a reason he had I though
he translated it into German. 

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He didn't care for its 
canonicity, status and when it 

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ultimately, I guess you could 
say, would accept it. 

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But he didn't accept it 
theologically because it didn't 

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preach Christ. 
And and truly it was ideas like 

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this that rivaled his 
understanding of Paul. 

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So therefore, since he 
established Paul was right, 

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James is wrong. 
And and that's just that's 

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ironic because James speaks of 
works, he speaks of true 

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religion undefiled is to care 
for the widow and the orphan to 

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visit him. 
And so his mind, there is a 

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religious order within 
Christianity. 

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There is religious practice and 
piety within the order of 

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Christianity. 
And it did involve almsgiving 

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and taking care of people and 
fasting and and things like 

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that. 
I mean, and fasting in a certain

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way. 
So it's interesting that this 

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sharp edge that has continued 
against Catholicism and this 

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sharp edge is consistently gone 
after the church's teaching on 

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faith and works. 
The Protestants have had to deal

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with tension that we haven't had
to deal with on this side of the

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type. 
Right. 

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Yeah. 
So Romans one through 3, though,

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that's not what it's like. 
It's not going to paint these 

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pictures. 
We're going to paint it a little

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bit better. 
It's going to demonstrate what 

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the church has always understood
from these passages. 

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Yes, there's some opportunities 
to disagree and and maybe have a

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slightly different 
interpretation, but what we're 

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going to see through Romans one 
through 3. 

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In summary, is is is basically 
this when we get into it that 

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there's universal sin, Jew and 
Gentile. 

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There is, you know, an approach 
that Paul is condemning any kind

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of boasting towards God, that 
you can achieve something on 

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your own and that you can obtain
favor with God by self work, a 

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reliance on Torah, specifically 
the law of Moses, apart from 

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Christ is is is damnable and 
that covenant privilege without 

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faith is worthless. 
That's a big one, yeah. 

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So that's a big one. 
But what he's not doing, he's 

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not attacking obedience and 
holiness and spirit filled 

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living and cooperating with 
God's grace absolutely. 

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So yeah. 
That's something to think about.

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All right, Pat, let's get right 
into the discussion here. 

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00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,720
In Romans 1, the Gentiles are in
a state of sin. 

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00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:26,720
They're not excluded just simply
off of ignorance, and that's 

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00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,120
what Paul has established in 
chapter 1 and verse 18, we see 

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00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,240
this. 
For the wrath of God is revealed

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00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,400
from heaven against all 
ungodliness and wickedness of 

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men, who by their wickedness 
suppress the truth. 

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00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,600
For what can be known of God is 
plain to them, because God has 

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00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,400
shown it to them ever since the 
creation of the world. 

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00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,920
The invisible nature, namely His
eternal power and deity, has 

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00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,480
been clearly perceived in things
that He has made, so that they 

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00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,640
are without excuse. 
For although they knew God, they

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00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,120
did not honor Him as God or give
Him thanks, But they became 

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00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,200
futile in their thinking, and 
senseless in their minds were in

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00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,360
the senseless minds given over 
to darkness. 

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00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:11,160
Now what is Paul concluding 
about the Pagan Gentile world? 

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That they first all of us are 
obligated to respond to the 

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00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,640
light and revelation of 
creation. 

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00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,920
The heavens declared this is a 
psalms. 

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00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,200
The heavens declared the glory 
of God right? 

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00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:27,520
And that God's divine attributes
can be even seen in the created.

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00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,040
Nature and order, correct? 
That's natural revelation, or 

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00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:36,160
what we call natural theology. 
Man is responsible to God in 

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00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,280
what has been revealed to him. 
God isn't going to judge the man

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00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,280
without the law with the law. 
Right, that's correct. 

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00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,240
He's going to judge us based on 
what revelation we didn't have 

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00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,360
and did understand and rejected.
Correct. 

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00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,560
And and of course, here he 
demonstrates that from the 

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00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,800
creation of the world these 
things could be seen by multiple

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00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,560
generations. 
It's not a generational 

290
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,280
revelation either. 
From the beginning of creation, 

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00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,400
God has revealed himself through
these means, Yes. 

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00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:09,880
And of course he he demonstrates
that man in his state is without

293
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,319
excuse. 
There's no excuse. 

294
00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:19,000
Man is known and has the ability
to know God known by and has the

295
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,480
ability to know God through the 
creation and, and and the 

296
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,839
understanding of divine 
institution. 

297
00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,200
So that's that's the main point 
there. 

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00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,480
But Paul through this whole 
entire chapter is going to 

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00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:37,840
attack idolatry, pagans, people 
that have truth and have chosen 

300
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,160
to. 
Suppress it. 

301
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,240
Suppress that truth. 
Moral corruption, which we'll 

302
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,480
get into in two in a minute. 
More sexual immorality. 

303
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,520
Disordered worship, taking the 
truth and choosing a lie 

304
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:53,360
instead, willingly. 
That's it. 

305
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:56,000
These are willing things. 
These aren't like, yeah, like 

306
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,360
people that just didn't know 
better. 

307
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,040
Yeah, this is what we would call
like mortal sin. 

308
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,480
And the idea of the Catholic 
Church, like mortal grave sin, 

309
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,400
is something that you do 
willingly, You know what you're 

310
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,400
doing, and you do it with the 
intent of, you know, break of 

311
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,600
transgressing against God. 
So, you know, I thought was 

312
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,120
interesting when, you know, you 
read that selection of verses in

313
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:21,760
Romans 1, it's interesting how 
that kind of correlates with the

314
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,040
story of Israel. 
You know, obviously you have the

315
00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,760
story of creation. 
But as you continue reading 

316
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,680
through Romans 1, you, you start
to see where, where so much of 

317
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,160
this wraps around Israel's 
story, Israel's story of 

318
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:41,400
captivity, Israel's story of 
exile, Israel's story of the 

319
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:46,400
nations always plundering them, 
the, the Egyptians, the 

320
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,120
Assyrians, the Babylonians. 
When you, when you read Romans 

321
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:53,120
one, I would encourage the 
reader think through what's 

322
00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,960
happening. 
At least as Paul was thinking 

323
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,760
about this, you can tell he's, 
he's literally, he's really 

324
00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,520
thinking about the story of 
Israel and, and all the Pagan 

325
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,640
gods that came that were 
surrounding Israel. 

326
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,960
He's actually including all of 
them within that story and say 

327
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,840
none of them are without excuse.
They've all been given God's 

328
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:14,360
revelation. 
I just thought that was kind of 

329
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:16,360
an interesting. 
They've been given God's 

330
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,320
revelation, and in this case, 
Paul's focus on those who have 

331
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,120
suppressed it, changed it, 
manipulated it, started 

332
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:23,640
worshipping the creature more 
than the. 

333
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,360
Creator who? 
Who did that? 

334
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,960
Egypt did that? 
Babylon did that? 

335
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,200
I. 
Guess all the Pagan nations and 

336
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,720
so his concern for them is 
particularly. 

337
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,160
So why is Paul's bringing this 
into the equation at all? 

338
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,480
Like what was his whole 
important point that he's trying

339
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,440
to pass into this writing? 
Well, he's drawing that the 

340
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,280
self-righteous Jews who who look
at the gentiles have one way of 

341
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,360
saying, oh, they're they're 
evil, they're condemned. 

342
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,880
I think he's actually trying to 
show him a mirror a little bit 

343
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,000
and demonstrate that because how
many times in Israel go after 

344
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,800
the same gods? 
Yes, they're sacrificing the 

345
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:00,600
same. 
God, the story of Israel falls 

346
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,880
into play here and. 
And so their, their point was 

347
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,440
is, oh, we're better than them. 
We're God's chosen. 

348
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,600
We're ethnically. 
God's we're covenantal. 

349
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,680
And he's like, well, they've 
been revealed through this 

350
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,560
revelation. 
And yes, they've suppressed. 

351
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,440
Yes, they have corrupted, but 
you, who had the divine law of. 

352
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,720
God and the promises and oracles
of God. 

353
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,680
Went into the same sins that 
they did with more, right? 

354
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,040
They had less. 
Yes. 

355
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:24,920
No, he's not excusing the 
Gentiles saying Oh well then. 

356
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,600
No, no, no. 
You know, Yeah, He's not. 

357
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,720
He's not trying to say that. 
Well, you know, you, the Jewish 

358
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,520
people, we had it. 
We had more revelation given to 

359
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,960
us. 
The Gentiles, they're in a 

360
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:36,520
better spot. 
No, he's not saying that. 

361
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,080
Nobody is without excuse in 
Paul's mind. 

362
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,000
Again, one is judged according 
to the light or the revelation 

363
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,800
that God has revealed to them. 
Yep. 

364
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:47,480
And so here's John Chrysostom on
this. 

365
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:51,080
It is Homilies of Romans homily 
5 and I did share it on the 

366
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,880
screen for those that are able 
to see it. 

367
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:58,640
He says, for it is the Jews that
he is chiefly opposing somewhat 

368
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,640
Romans 1. 
For in as much as they were 

369
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:06,160
somewhat captiously disposed, 
first of their haughtiness, not 

370
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,640
dying to the reckon among along 
with the Gentiles, and secondly,

371
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,640
thinking it ridiculous that the 
faith is to do away with all 

372
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,280
sins. 
That's interesting himself for 

373
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,920
this 'cause he accused the 
Gentiles first, and whose behalf

374
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,560
he is speaking, that without 
suspicion and with boldness of 

375
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,600
speech he may attack the Jews. 
And then having come to the 

376
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,760
inquiry concerning the 
punishment, he shows that the 

377
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:35,720
Jews is so far from being at all
profited by the law that he is 

378
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:40,040
even weighed down by it. 
And this was his drift some way 

379
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,240
back. 
So according to Chrysostom, he 

380
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:47,400
believes that this was being 
done to actually turn it on the 

381
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,240
Jews. 
Like he's building an argument 

382
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,000
like Romans. 
One's not the end of the 

383
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,400
argument it's leading him to. 
Romans 2 and 3 and it's it's 

384
00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:01,280
showing that the Jews were a 
people given much privilege. 

385
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,160
Yeah. 
It reminds me of the parables 

386
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,840
that Jesus tells about talents 
and gifts. 

387
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,960
And you know who who used those 
talents and who didn't use those

388
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,920
talents, and the one that didn't
use their talents was often 

389
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,840
taken away from them. 
This kind of reminds me like of 

390
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,680
Jesus's teaching in the parables
there. 

391
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:24,440
But you go back to the reality 
of, you know, Paul getting into 

392
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,440
this discussion. 
He is a Jew. 

393
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:27,200
Yeah. 
Oh yeah. 

394
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,520
He's not a gentile, so he's 
speaking as someone with who's 

395
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:33,440
got skin in the game. 
He tells them later. 

396
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,000
I'm your countryman. 
Yeah, I exactly. 

397
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,600
So he's, he's not, he's not 
condemning Jews as a Gentile. 

398
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,280
He is opposing Jews, as 
Chrysostom puts it. 

399
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:48,680
He is opposing them as one who 
was, who is them? 

400
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,560
He is one of them, but he has 
come to receive the truth of the

401
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,000
faith of the Messiah in Christ 
Jesus, where those who have not 

402
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,760
have rejected that and they've 
put themselves in greater 

403
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,880
condemnation because of doing 
so. 

404
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,960
And so he he uses creation to 
condemn the Gentiles while 

405
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,560
reflecting on the Jewish 
narratives and demonstrating 

406
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,840
creation. 
Then he moves to chapter 2 and 

407
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,040
deals with those without the 
law, yet have a moral law 

408
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,480
compass in their heart. 
If you would the moral compass 

409
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:24,080
of conscience and that everybody
is condemned off of that 

410
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,360
meaning. 
And we see this even in ancient 

411
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:28,880
laws, like whether you're 
looking at the Egyptian laws or 

412
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,400
you're looking at the Babylonian
laws, we now have their their 

413
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,080
law codes and a lot of their law
codes are things like you 

414
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,880
shouldn't steal your neighbor's 
animals. 

415
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,960
You shouldn't commit these 
sexual acts. 

416
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:44,480
You you shouldn't do some sort 
of murder or some relevance of 

417
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,520
stealing or cheating. 
Like these things are actually 

418
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,120
demonstrated in Pagan Canon laws
of their land. 

419
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:53,960
Which have a moral code. 
That demonstrates that we're all

420
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,680
made in the image of God and we 
all reflect some sort of 

421
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,240
morality. 
And so everybody's condemned on 

422
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,560
creation and conscience and and 
then for the Jews, they were 

423
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,560
according to their Canon laws, 
if you would, were condemned off

424
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,600
of the written law of God. 
Yeah, they had the cyanatic 

425
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,200
code. 
They had the code itself. 

426
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,240
So either either condemned 
particularly by creation, 

427
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,800
conscience, or code. 
And then in this dispensation of

428
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:26,200
time we are either condemned if 
we know or have been presented 

429
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,400
the person of Christ. 
I'm keeping it all, CS you know,

430
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,800
it's a creation, conscience, 
code, or Christ. 

431
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,040
I mean, you're condemned on 
these. 

432
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,600
Things. 
So I think Paul's teaching that.

433
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,480
So in Romans 2 he's saying the 
Jews also stand condemned here 

434
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,040
and by possessing the law, 
that's a good thing. 

435
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,680
It it's divine revelation, it's 
actually getting. 

436
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,920
It was a privilege, it was a 
gift, absolutely. 

437
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,880
But he wants them to know that 
the law wasn't enough. 

438
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:56,480
Right. 
And neither and neither is being

439
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,720
of the seed of Abraham. 
Well, they were relying upon 

440
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:00,760
that. 
And exactly so. 

441
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,640
Why are we bringing that up? 
How's that relevant to 

442
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,520
Protestantism? 
Well, because if we understand 

443
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:09,600
what Paul is building toward 
when he says works of the law, 

444
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,320
we we begin to understand, 
particularly in his mind or what

445
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:18,640
he what he is demonstrating to 
us in his mind is that Torah and

446
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,320
and being covenantly marked by 
circumcision cannot justify a 

447
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:29,000
person apart from true 
faithfulness and obedience to 

448
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,680
the God who called them. 
And this is this is the point 

449
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,760
the Jews of Paul's day have 
missed. 

450
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,840
This is the reason he is writing
the climactical argument that 

451
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,640
he's going to make in Romans 
that Protestants automatically 

452
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,400
come to and just say, Oh, good 
deeds, you know, I, I don't 

453
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,360
depend on any good works. 
It's faith alone. 

454
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,480
And it's like, wait a minute, 
you have completely and 

455
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,560
anachronistically pull this out 
of what Paul was dealing with in

456
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,480
his time to appeal to some post,
not even, I would even say 

457
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:06,080
Protestant, more so a radical 
reformation ideology that is 

458
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,480
arisen in most of the 
evangelical churches of our 

459
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,240
country today. 
What are you saying they 

460
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,720
twisted? 
I'm saying they're twisting this

461
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,720
to today's standard and some 
kind of sermon teachings that 

462
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,400
have been going on for a couple 
100 years. 

463
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,040
Now, yeah, absolutely. 
That was not relevant or even in

464
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:23,680
the mind. 
Was not even a part of the 

465
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,320
discussion. 
Yeah, it was not a part of the 

466
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:26,480
discussion, is what you're 
saying. 

467
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,000
What? 
What was a part of the 

468
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:34,360
discussion was what role for the
new Messiah who has come? 

469
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:39,880
What role did the law did Torah 
did circumcision, the, the, the 

470
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,560
ceremonial, the purity laws, 
what role did those play in 

471
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,440
terms of being a part of the new
covenant? 

472
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,320
Let me say that one more time in
part of being as a part of being

473
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:56,160
of the new covenant. 
So that is where you have to to 

474
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,320
travel back in time, put 
yourself in the time of the 1st 

475
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,800
century context. 
And again, Paul's not saying 

476
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,960
anything different than our Lord
Jesus said, because O Jerusalem,

477
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:12,680
Jerusalem, if only you would 
have known the time as a hen 

478
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:16,640
gathers her chicks, you would 
have been gathered into me. 

479
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,360
But see to your house. 
See now that your house is left 

480
00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:22,800
unto you desolate. 
That's Matthew 24. 

481
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,680
So again, it's it's 
understanding what has happened 

482
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,400
in the crisis of the Jewish 
people rejecting their Messiah 

483
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,560
and not understanding that the 
works of the law and how Paul 

484
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,560
understood that phrase not as 
being morally good or upright or

485
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:44,200
obedience or spirit filled life,
but trying to participate in 

486
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,440
these old covenant ceremonial 
rituals as if they could be 

487
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,760
salvific for you now. 
And he says. 

488
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,000
Hebrews by the. 
Way it's it's all of Hebrews 

489
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,520
especially, and even Paul 
alludes to that here in our 

490
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,600
passage, right Romans chapter #2
verse 13. 

491
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:03,800
He explicitly says for not the 
hearers of the law are just 

492
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,360
before God, but the doers of the
law shall be justified. 

493
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:14,720
So having the law is not enough.
Having having the system isn't 

494
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,560
enough to save you. 
And by the way, I I, you know, 

495
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,600
let's just pause here and and 
have some real conversations 

496
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,560
about many Catholics and and 
those that attend the true and 

497
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,640
fullness of the faith. 
There are a lot of people who 

498
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,160
think why, you know, I've 
already been, I did first 

499
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,240
Eucharist, I've been confirmed 
all this stuff. 

500
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,880
And yet they regularly don't 
attend Mass. 

501
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,360
They're not participating in the
sacraments. 

502
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:41,160
They're not going to confession 
you're in danger. 

503
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,080
Absolutely. 
You are in danger. 

504
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,680
You have endangered yourself to 
come into the fullness of the 

505
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,960
faith and to experience the true
and fullness of the Church and 

506
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,880
to experience these things. 
And then to not participate in 

507
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,320
those graces that have been 
easily accessed to us in our 

508
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:04,440
time and our world and our 
ability to be at Mass and our 

509
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,200
ability to be a part of these 
these sacraments of grace. 

510
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,560
That's why they're called mortal
sins. 

511
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,400
And yes, it is if you 
intentionally and willfully miss

512
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:20,840
Mass and on, on a, on a Sunday, 
not, not not Christmas and 

513
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,920
Easter on a Sunday, you have 
committed mortal sin by church's

514
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,920
teaching. 
I mean, if you're in bed sick, 

515
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,480
stay there. 
I mean, there are dispensation, 

516
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:32,520
right? 
I mean the church. 

517
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,280
The church is not that rigorous 
about that. 

518
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,960
Circle But there are people that
say, you know, you know, I'm I'm

519
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,560
just not practicing my faith 
like I used to or I'm I'm, you 

520
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:41,840
know, yeah, I did all those 
things. 

521
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,720
But you haven't been to church 
in five years. 

522
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,280
I mean, folks, you're, you're 
not a part. 

523
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,640
You are in a greater state of 
danger in so many ways. 

524
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,880
Well, this is, this is what the 
New Testament authors called 

525
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,760
falling away, right? 
This was a, this is the idea of 

526
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:59,160
falling away or apostasy. 
When you partake of the the good

527
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,360
gifts of God, the heavenly 
gifts, when you partake of them 

528
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,720
and then you walk away or you 
fall away from them by not 

529
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,200
participating in them, you've 
essentially you're essentially 

530
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,880
doing in some respects to what 
Judas of Iscariot did he partake

531
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,000
of the he partake of the 
heavenly gift and what did he 

532
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,080
do? 
He walked away and he betrayed 

533
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:19,880
his Lord. 
Yep. 

534
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,040
So it's that's yeah, I. 
Can say more, but but doers of 

535
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,160
the law are justified just being
hears of it or not. 

536
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,720
So we have a major interpretive 
problem for Protestants here. 

537
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,760
Paul believed that. 
Well, here's the thing. 

538
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,480
If Paul believed that you had to
do something. 

539
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:39,360
Right. 
Yeah, yeah. 

540
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,360
You're not just going to be able
to sit there, open your arms and

541
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,440
take something in. 
You had to cooperate. 

542
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,160
Like that there actually is a 
movement. 

543
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:47,600
You had to. 
Cooperate so if. 

544
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,320
If you had to participate. 
If Protestants are right, Paul 

545
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,160
believed that you know all 
obedience and doing is 

546
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,200
worthless, then he would have 
never said things like those who

547
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,840
do the law are justified and 
they also believe that he had 

548
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,000
this concept. 
Oh no, Paul taught that works 

549
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,640
never matter. 
Like it's only grace through 

550
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,600
faith apart from works. 
Well then Romans 213 becomes 

551
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,520
absolutely incoherent and 
pointless. 

552
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,560
Paul clearly does not oppose 
obedience and cooperation with 

553
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,520
the graces of God. 
Absolutely. 

554
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,720
We do believe grace precedes 
faith. 

555
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,080
Absolutely, yeah. 
We as Catholics believe that you

556
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,200
don't have faith until God 
initiates that for you in your 

557
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,200
life through his grace. 
And even faith itself is a gift 

558
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,840
from God, and it's given to us 
by grace, by God's grace. 

559
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,280
And what is building up our 
faith, Stephen? 

560
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,840
What is it in the church that 
builds up our faith? 

561
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,440
We believe it's in the 
sacraments of grace. 

562
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,800
Absolutely, because they have, 
they have divine power that 

563
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,000
transform us and conform us to 
the image of the Son of God. 

564
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,480
That's what these sacraments do.
They make us into Christ, who is

565
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,440
our head and we are his body. 
That's how they work. 

566
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,840
So this is the beauty of of 
these sacraments is that we are,

567
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:13,840
we are saying we can't, we don't
and we should but didn't. 

568
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,160
That's what we're saying. 
But when you go to confession, 

569
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,000
you're not coming there with 
your success list. 

570
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,400
Well, you know, this week I got 
this right. 

571
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,680
I got this right. 
You're going to the confessional

572
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,840
booth with where you got it 
wrong, right? 

573
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,080
And you're bringing that and 
saying I didn't do it, I need 

574
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,920
help, I need forgiveness, I need
a reset because I absolutely did

575
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,520
not live within the grace that 
was provided. 

576
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,840
And then we are given more. 
Grace. 

577
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:41,800
Grace upon grace. 
Grace. 

578
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,800
Upon grace forgiven. 
And then we are now back into 

579
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,720
that fullness. 
And now we can participate 

580
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,960
freely in the Eucharist and 
participate freely in these 

581
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,720
other sacraments. 
And, and now we are being built 

582
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,960
in that faith. 
And then we we're going to mess 

583
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:57,960
up. 
We go to confession. 

584
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,120
There has been given to us grace
upon grace. 

585
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,600
Absolutely, yeah. 
That is not something I earn 

586
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,960
when I when we go to the table. 
Lord, I am not worthy that you 

587
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:08,280
should enter my. 
Roof but. 

588
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,120
Say the word of my soul. 
Shall be healed. 

589
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,640
What are we saying? 
I I don't. 

590
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,520
I'm not worthy to do. 
This like there's nothing I can 

591
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:19,440
do to obtain this. 
I'm coming with hands open, 

592
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,200
heart open. 
We lift our hearts up to the 

593
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,520
Lord. 
I mean, that's we can't do it. 

594
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,720
We need grace. 
Yeah. 

595
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,720
Bring something to me I can't 
obtain. 

596
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,600
Myself. 
And that's exactly what the Lord

597
00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,840
wants from us. 
He wants us to bring ourselves 

598
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,400
to Him so that He can do His 
powerful work in our lives, His 

599
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,200
divine supernatural work, giving
us divine supernatural. 

600
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,120
Zoe is the Greek word for 
supernatural eternal life. 

601
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,160
That's what God wants from us. 
He wants us to bring ourselves 

602
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,280
and all the problems that we 
have and bring them to Him. 

603
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,120
So as a loving Father, He can 
cleanse His children, He can 

604
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,920
purify His children. 
He can make His children more 

605
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,360
like himself. 
That's what the that's what 

606
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,640
we're doing when we go to the 
altar. 

607
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,400
That is the living sacrifice, by
the way. 

608
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,719
That's what we're doing in 
Romans 12. 

609
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,360
We're fast forwarding, but 
that's what we're doing. 

610
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:16,000
But it's not us going and 
obtaining like, Oh well, you 

611
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,320
believe you got to do grace, 
your faith and the sacraments. 

612
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,320
The the sacraments are the grace
that brings the faith. 

613
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,360
Like you get this so wrong. 
And why? 

614
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,360
Why does grace come so that we 
have faith that we are His 

615
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,400
workmanship created on 2 good 
works? 

616
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,120
So no. 
Yes, they grace, faith and works

617
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,600
are not inseparable realities. 
That's the problem that you 

618
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,400
have. 
In they are they are inseparable

619
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,440
realities. 
They are not separable realities

620
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,719
where it's like, Oh well you got
grace category, faith category, 

621
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,560
works category, no grace 
initiates faith, faith produced 

622
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,560
works. 
They when you are In Sync with 

623
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,520
these three things, they are one
and the same. 

624
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,480
They are not in some, you know, 
rival it. 

625
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,360
Oh, I've got this one, but not 
that one. 

626
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,080
Well, you know, Paul talks about
what that looks like. 

627
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,160
Faith without love, without 
works or charity, even if it's 

628
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,520
the ability to move a mountain, 
is worthless. 

629
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,760
It profits you nothing. 
James says faith without works 

630
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,000
is dead. 
You can't have faith apart from 

631
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,760
grace because grace produces the
faith. 

632
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,840
So you can't, you can't just sit
here and go. 

633
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:24,600
I've got, I've got the grace 
part, not this and that. 

634
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,840
I don't want this. 
Part Yeah, you, you try, you, 

635
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,160
you end up picking it all apart 
as if it's some kind of 

636
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,040
mathematical equation that you 
can figure it out. 

637
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,880
It's not a mathematical 
equation. 

638
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,280
It's the divine life of God that
he gives to us so that we can be

639
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,680
like him and be his children. 
That's what we're called to be. 

640
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,800
And in being his children, we're
going to do works of mercy. 

641
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,480
We're going to do works of 
charity. 

642
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,000
We're going to do those good 
things because that's what 

643
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,840
obedience to the the Son of God 
and to God the Father looks like

644
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,880
with the Holy Spirit working in 
and through us. 

645
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,000
This is not hard. 
It's not rocket science. 

646
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,760
And yet we have Protestant 
pastors out there teaching false

647
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,320
teaching, leading children to 
the end of the pier, tying a 

648
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,320
millstone around their neck and 
throwing themselves off the pier

649
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,840
because they're leading blind 
people in the pits of hell and 

650
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,160
telling people, oh, you don't 
need to do anything. 

651
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,160
You don't have to cooperate with
anything. 

652
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,480
Loving God is, you know, God's 
love is unconditional. 

653
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,760
I got news for you. 
It's not unconditional. 

654
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:27,920
It is, it is this God has saved 
you to make you like himself so 

655
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,760
that you can be a light in the 
world. 

656
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,120
That is Jesus's teaching. 
Salt and light. 

657
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,080
Be salt and light. 
If your righteousness does not 

658
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,320
exceed that of the Pharisees, 
what does he say? 

659
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,760
You will never inherit the 
Kingdom of God. 

660
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,200
I don't know how we get all this
messed up. 

661
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,040
I'm so glad the Church has given
us this guide in this teaching 

662
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,440
that we can go, oh, this all 
fits it all. 

663
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,320
It all works together. 
It all harmonizes. 

664
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,080
Each other. 
I think it's an American culture

665
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,480
thing too, especially here the 
way it's taught in sermons. 

666
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,480
Maybe not the earlier reformers,
but in in the United States. 

667
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,520
I mean we we want everything 
quick and easy. 

668
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,280
We really do, and we want to 
ease. 

669
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:06,800
So, so if we can just get 
smacked upside the head with 

670
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,800
salvation and I don't have to 
worry about my future. 

671
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,440
I, I mean, we, we treat it like 
we do a retirement plan or 

672
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,840
something. 
Like, I mean, ticket punched. 

673
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,840
I, I said a prayer, I got my 
stuff done. 

674
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,400
I'm good. 
I, I, yeah, I mean, I'm not a 

675
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,680
perfect person, but I, I'm not 
trying to be bad. 

676
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,840
You know, we have this idea that
I can just punch a ticket to get

677
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:29,600
into heaven. 
I said a prayer. 

678
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,880
I, I did all these things. 
Now I'm saved and that's all 

679
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:34,320
that matter. 
No matter what happens from the 

680
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,040
restaurant, we want that 
security. 

681
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:37,880
We want that quick and easy 
path. 

682
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:40,480
This idea of taking up my cross,
following me. 

683
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,800
Well, what that means is I'm 
going to have some hard days. 

684
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,120
And you know, I'm going to have 
to, you know, a tough bill is 

685
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:46,760
going to hit me. 
Or I'm going to screw up. 

686
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,120
Yeah, like, like because I'm 
human. 

687
00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:50,360
It's, it's not, it's not even 
about that. 

688
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,600
It's not about that at all. 
Look what St. 

689
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,520
Irena as if Leon says and 
against. 

690
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,240
Which, by the way, what I just 
said is presumption. 

691
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,480
Did y'all catch that? 
That's presumptuous sin that is 

692
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:00,800
dangerous. 
It is dangerous. 

693
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,800
Ireneis of Leon says now he did 
not teach us these things as 

694
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,280
opposed to the law, but it's 
fulfilling the law. 

695
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,800
You talk about Romans 2, by the 
way, and implanting in us the 

696
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,840
varied righteousness of the law,
not only to abstain from things 

697
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,880
forbidden by the law, but even 
from longing after them. 

698
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,800
So what I wrote here is Irenaeus
explicitly rejects the idea that

699
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,600
Christ supposed obedience or 
righteousness itself. 

700
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,080
We talked. 
About this before but. 

701
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,760
Yeah, absolutely. 
Well, and then this is part of 

702
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,640
our conversation. 
Instead, Christ fulfills and 

703
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,720
deepens the law by transforming 
the heart and planting true 

704
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:40,240
righteousness within believers. 
That fits naturally with Paul's 

705
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:42,600
emphasis on inward 
transformation and quote 

706
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,880
obedience of faith rather than 
modern reception that Paul 

707
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,880
opposed all forms of works of 
obedience. 

708
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,280
And infusion of grace in our 
lives. 

709
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,400
Yeah. 
So this so far, irony of loans, 

710
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,600
whether you're talking about 
some of these other writers in 

711
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,440
the early church, like John 
Chrysostom, they understood 

712
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,040
what's going on here. 
It is not the teaching 

713
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:05,760
currently. 
This is not the teaching that 

714
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,000
we're seeing in Protestantism 
today. 

715
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,880
It doesn't line up with the 
church's regular teaching on 

716
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,160
these things. 
Yeah, you almost. 

717
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,680
I hate that. 
I will say this because it's 

718
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:20,000
sad, but I heard an Anglican 
Bishop one say one time say 

719
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,040
something one time that really 
bothered me and he said you're 

720
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,440
preaching should come across as 
if you're Antinomian A. 

721
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,760
Bishop. 
Yeah, you're preaching should 

722
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,440
present itself as something that
is antinomian. 

723
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:43,640
Let's think about that for a 
moment. 

724
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,400
Yeah, I, I don't know. 
I don't know where we're getting

725
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,480
our theology anymore. 
We're pulling that out in left 

726
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,320
field. 
Has anybody and I I would 

727
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,960
challenge them, but can you find
anybody who believes that pre 

728
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,120
1800 even I'm not even sure the 
match sure reformers would go 

729
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,520
that far. 
I'm not sure anybody in the 

730
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,520
early reformed crab would go 
that far. 

731
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,440
But let's talk about what these 
ideas of the works of the law 

732
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,800
right works of the law. 
Key texts are Romans chapter 3 

733
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:19,480
verse 20 which says for no human
being will be justified in his 

734
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:25,120
sight. 
By works of the law and through 

735
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,440
the law comes the knowledge of 
sin. 

736
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,720
Later in verse 27, then what 
becomes our boasting? 

737
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,160
It is excluded. 
On what principle? 

738
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,720
On the principle of works, No, 
but on the principle of faith. 

739
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,480
For we hold that a man is 
justified by faith apart from 

740
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,560
the works of the law. 
There it is. 

741
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,680
Or is it God the God of the Jews
only? 

742
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,840
Is he not the God of the 
Gentiles? 

743
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,240
Now listen, what? 
What is it so far? 

744
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:58,400
We continually see this line 
works of the law. 

745
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:03,000
He later reiterates this concept
especially in Galatians chapter 

746
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,640
2 verse 16. 
He says the very same things. 

747
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,840
There's a lot that can be said 
here for sure. 

748
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:17,080
Yet who know that knows that a 
man is not justified by the 

749
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:21,520
works of the law, but through 
faith in Jesus Christ. 

750
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,120
Even we I believed in Christ 
Jesus in order to be justified 

751
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:29,240
by faith in Christ and not by 
the works of the law. 

752
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:34,120
Chapter 3 verse two. 
He says these words and and and 

753
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,280
again he's repeating a lot of 
the same principles, but the 

754
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,000
Romans and Galatians. 
Let me ask you this only. 

755
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,520
Did you receive the Spirit by 
the works of the law, or by 

756
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,560
hearing with faith? 
Are you so foolish? 

757
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,360
Having begun with the Spirit, 
you are now ending in the flesh.

758
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,800
Did you experience so many 
things in vain? 

759
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,960
If it really is in vain, does he
who supplies the Spirit to you 

760
00:41:56,680 --> 00:42:02,080
and works miracles among you do 
so by the works of the law or by

761
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,080
the hearing of faith? 
So then he uses Abraham as an 

762
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:08,240
example. 
The continual line that we see, 

763
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:14,080
Pat, is the phrase works of the 
law like were you justified? 

764
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,800
Were you justified with this? 
Is it faith or so this is where 

765
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,240
it's like the fight between. 
Ergo, nomu is like the Greek 

766
00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:23,680
term, right? 
But this is where everybody gets

767
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,680
confused and this is where I I 
struggle with this for a lot. 

768
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:34,960
Paul does not just say works, he
repeatedly says works of the 

769
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:41,080
law. 
So ergo Namu is the phrase. 

770
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,080
And this is something that he 
says multiple times. 

771
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,920
The phrase work of the law 
appears in other places. 

772
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,120
So let's talk about these other 
places for a minute. 

773
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,800
In the 1st century BC, there's a
document in the Dead Sea Scrolls

774
00:42:54,800 --> 00:43:01,880
findings 4 Q MMT and it uses 
that line, which what makes you 

775
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,600
wonder? 
You know what, what was Paul 

776
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:06,880
meaning? 
What do you say works for the 

777
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:07,840
law? 
Does that mean you know? 

778
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,760
Oh, I'm depending on how you 
know? 

779
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,680
Oh, I gave my money to the 
church. 

780
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,880
I I did you know this like? 
Or I helped the poor. 

781
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,480
Or that old lady with her 
grocery cart. 

782
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,520
Or I, I took care of, you know, 
my relative who was sick and 

783
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:28,320
dying and, or hey, I, I, I 
taught, you know, scripture 

784
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,800
study, you know. 
Whatever we have defined works 

785
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,920
as an opposition to faith, works
of the law, because again, 

786
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:38,400
that's our understanding of 
things. 

787
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,160
Let's actually go back to the 
Times, and this is about 100 

788
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,280
years before Paul. 
Yeah, this is BC, Yeah. 

789
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:51,000
This is, this is the issue is we
have, we again have taken these 

790
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,760
passages and we have isolated 
them to our times or our 

791
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,440
situations and it's a problem. 
So there's what are some of the 

792
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:04,680
works of the law that 4 QMMT 
talk about as it relates to 

793
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,840
things that would be required? 
Because remember that you got 

794
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,880
the, the Qumran communities who 
are not very thrilled with the 

795
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,120
Jerusalem system, especially the
Pharisaical groups. 

796
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,440
There's a lot of oppositions to 
each other here. 

797
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,000
Yeah, they feel the temple 
system is corrupted because it's

798
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,960
not clearly the Levitical 
priesthood They're. 

799
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,080
They're kind of like the SSPX of
the Catholic world. 

800
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,240
True, that's a great analogy. 
That's not the real, that is not

801
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:29,400
the real high priest they've 
been. 

802
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:30,000
Corrupted. 
Right. 

803
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,000
So the purity of liquids poured 
from one container to another. 

804
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:36,920
That that that what you said? 
What? 

805
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:37,760
What? 
Wait, what? 

806
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:39,440
Yeah, That's what works of the 
law. 

807
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,800
Yeah, purity regulations about 
liquid streams and vessels. 

808
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,080
These are works of the law like 
protect and and even Jesus kind 

809
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,040
of like used some of that as an 
exact like who puts old like new

810
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,600
wine and old wine skins. 
You see a reference to this and 

811
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,200
it's just a passing reference. 
But John too, at the wedding of 

812
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,000
Cana, the the water basins were 
used for purity rituals. 

813
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,440
Yeah, for the Jewish people. 
So that that's not that's not a 

814
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,000
uncommon thing. 
To put common with uncommon, 

815
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,160
right? 
Yeah, another one, issues about 

816
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,600
the impurity, about bones and 
animal hides. 

817
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,680
Yeah, hides of unclean and clean
animals. 

818
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:17,200
I mean, fair, fair arguments. 
These are things we're talking 

819
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,080
about whether or not dogs can be
in Jerusalem. 

820
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,680
Yeah. 
So Fifi and Fofo can't be in. 

821
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,520
A big no no but but. 
Let's be real, like the dogs in 

822
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,720
that time are a little bit 
different than your little pets 

823
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,240
today. 
It's a little different. 

824
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:30,360
Situation. 
Well, yeah, yeah. 

825
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:38,080
Well, dogs were more vicious. 
They're more like coyotes or, 

826
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,400
or, you know, looking at wolves 
than particularly like, you 

827
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,200
know, your little small Shih tzu
or something. 

828
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,200
Yeah, but there's, you know, 
again, there's, there's places 

829
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,840
in the scripture where we kind 
of see where that goes. 

830
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,400
Right? 
Like dogs return to their own. 

831
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:54,720
Vomit. 
Vomit. 

832
00:45:55,200 --> 00:46:00,320
They eat excrement, right? 
They they do what? 

833
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,640
That's what dogs do, right? 
Well, they defile. 

834
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:03,960
Themselves, they defile 
themselves. 

835
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,480
This is why Jews call Gentiles 
what dogs? 

836
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,120
And and it and it's interesting 
that when you go to the new city

837
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:16,600
in Revelation, what do you see? 
You see this city, right? 

838
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:22,600
And outside the city are dogs, 
are dogs, sorcerers and 

839
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,200
fornicators and murders, 
etcetera. 

840
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:30,160
So again, these were but these 
are part of what the works of 

841
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:33,360
the law and and then they start 
defining what works of the law. 

842
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,040
Actually, they do. 
They do, yeah. 

843
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:39,240
Yeah, skin diseases, so leprosy,
things like that would be 

844
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:43,720
considered like how to maintain 
purities or impurities in those 

845
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:46,400
situations, keeping away from 
gentiles. 

846
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,320
Yeah, you don't touch Gentiles. 
Yeah, I mean, you don't even. 

847
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,040
Yeah. 
Yeah, you don't use their wheat 

848
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,520
in the temple. 
Yeah, it's like not even their 

849
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,600
crops. 
Are worthy goodness none. 

850
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,240
You actually see some of that in
the chosen being played out 

851
00:46:58,240 --> 00:46:59,760
where they where they deal with 
that. 

852
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,720
But like, Jews didn't want to be
in Gentile territory. 

853
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,840
They didn't want a Gentile in 
their home. 

854
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,520
Like there was a lot of these 
ritualistic rules that they 

855
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,440
followed because it was about 
being clean and unclean and that

856
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:11,400
was about worship. 
Yes. 

857
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,320
Yeah, that was about worship. 
It centered around being able to

858
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,440
go to the temple and offer 
sacrifice for your sins. 

859
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,120
That's what it really was was 
centered around. 

860
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,080
They also dealt the subject of 
the deaf and the blind. 

861
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,800
You've got to keep the blind and
deaf out of the temple. 

862
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,400
You know this, this is something
Jesus got on to the religious 

863
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,040
leaders about and this is 
something they were upset. 

864
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,800
Remember, this is this is 
accusations against a religious 

865
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,640
sect. 
Like you people have done these 

866
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:39,360
things like you won't accept the
weed of Gentiles. 

867
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,080
You've mistreated the deaf and 
the blind people with skin 

868
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,400
conditions. 
I mean, Jesus. 

869
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,080
But what is Jesus doing the 
opposite? 

870
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:47,440
Like he goes to the deaf and the
blind. 

871
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,520
He he, he heals the leper. 
He, he lets people who are like 

872
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,520
women on their cycles touch his 
garment. 

873
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,040
I mean, like he's doing 
everything that you could 

874
00:47:56,040 --> 00:48:00,840
possibly do to rock the system 
that is created. 

875
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,400
A systematic approach of like, 
oh, we're doing these things to 

876
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,160
obtain righteousness with God 
and Jesus. 

877
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,120
Like, let me tell you why you're
not obtaining righteousness. 

878
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,800
Because you're not fathering 
your children the way a father 

879
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,200
should, father's children. 
And and that's what he nails the

880
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,400
Pharisees on. 
It's what he nails the, the, the

881
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,120
the priesthood and the temple on
is instead of instead of making 

882
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:29,280
it possible for sinners to 
become forgiven and atoned for, 

883
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,320
they made it more difficult. 
Yeah, they made it more 

884
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,320
difficult. 
Well, and this is the thing, you

885
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,640
know, these scenes were like, 
you know, you can't let these 

886
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,440
folks in. 
And so like you're talking about

887
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:44,040
purity and liquids, you're 
talking about cups being used 

888
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,440
for wrong things. 
The law of Moses, you know, very

889
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:52,320
strict about purity of food, 
unclean cups, pitchers of water,

890
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,080
like you were talking about 
pouring water into unclean. 

891
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,400
You know, Jesus even said, like 
you don't take new wine and put 

892
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,320
it in old wineskins. 
I mean like things like this, 

893
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:05,080
These are, these are the kinds 
of things when we're talking 

894
00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,280
about the works of the law, half
the time people are thinking 

895
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:11,280
like works of mercy, works of 
charity, being a good person, 

896
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,480
having good morals. 
Being obedient, living in 

897
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,880
obedience to God's moral 
precepts. 

898
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:22,880
That is not what was in the mind
of these people that Paul is 

899
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,200
writing to it. 
Was about ritual, cleanness and 

900
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:30,040
purity. 
So Catholics teach works. 

901
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,520
They're not teaching works of 
the law in the way that that 

902
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,560
we're seeing these kinds of 
things. 

903
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:39,920
It's it's a problem. 
I cannot. 

904
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,640
I want to say something real 
quick about I was looking at 4 

905
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,160
QMMT and I've been looking at it
pretty heavily the last few 

906
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,960
days. 
The epilogue is very explosive 

907
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,280
in terms of what we might think 
about, you know, the faith. 

908
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,280
It says something like we have 
written to you some of the works

909
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,680
of the Torah, which we think are
good for you and your people, 

910
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,480
and it will be reckoned to you 
as righteousness when you do 

911
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,760
what is right and good before 
him. 

912
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,000
Steven, did you hear that? 
It will be reckoned to you as 

913
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,320
righteousness? 
Where have we heard that phrase 

914
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,800
before? 
Right, Genesis with Abraham, 

915
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:16,080
right? 
You follow me. 

916
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:22,840
So it's, it's interesting when 
you read 4 QMMT, which predates 

917
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:27,760
Paul, about 100 years. 
As you said, Paul has a 

918
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:32,040
different grasp of what works of
the law means compared to how we

919
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,560
modern readers think about it 
and how we've been taught to 

920
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,520
think about works. 
And I like what you just said 

921
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,440
there, and I'm going to actually
pull it up on the screen as well

922
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:44,000
for those that are watching, 
those that are listening. 

923
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,160
Of course you'll follow along. 
Tobit 12 talks about this 

924
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:51,800
concept, right? 
And in Tobit 12 I I'm always 

925
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,800
intrigued by this because the 
new, the New Testament seems to 

926
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,640
imply this, not explicitly say 
it. 

927
00:50:58,200 --> 00:50:59,800
Jesus seems. 
To alludes to it, yeah. 

928
00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:02,840
It definitely Sermon on the 
Mountain materials, but I will 

929
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:07,280
say this, when I did my 
dissertational work in critics 

930
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:13,520
H, this verse is cited in the 
Apostolic Fathers and it blew me

931
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:15,560
away. 
It actually bothered me. 

932
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:20,440
Yeah, because of what? 
Tobit 12/9 for Almsgiving 

933
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,240
Almsgiving saves from death and 
purges away every sin. 

934
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:35,480
Those who give alms will enjoy a
full life, it says Almsgiving 

935
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:36,800
can save from death and purge 
sin. 

936
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:42,240
It's atoning now a a Protestant 
this is by the way, This is why 

937
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:43,920
Protestants absolutely rejected 
what. 

938
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:48,520
Books didn't didn't Saint Peter 
say love covers a multitude, A 

939
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,360
multitude of sin? 
Which comes from proverbs, yeah.

940
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:59,240
So obviously there are acts that
do cover or do some level of 

941
00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:04,880
atoning to sin. 
A Protestant has to wrestle with

942
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:05,720
that. 
Very. 

943
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:08,560
We don't we, we our, our 
wrestling done. 

944
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,720
We lost. 
We're we're we're Jacob limping 

945
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:12,400
over here. 
I mean, we, we wrestled, yeah, 

946
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:15,000
we're done. 
Like we we just took the L, we 

947
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,160
took the L and we limp. 
Yeah, we took the shot across 

948
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:20,440
the hip. 
I mean, we, I, there's no point 

949
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,120
in fighting it in my mind 
anymore, Pat. 

950
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,640
I mean, from that regard. 
So here's some of the main 

951
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:31,120
arguments Paul's getting at. 
He centers on the the system. 

952
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:32,680
Yeah, what like what we're 
seeing in the. 

953
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:35,840
The Old covenant 
circumcisionalistic system 

954
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,280
rituals. 
The Old covenant sacrament. 

955
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,800
Steven, The Old Covenant 
Sacraments. 

956
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,920
The Old Covenant sacraments that
were only meant to point to the 

957
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:45,560
greater fulfillment. 
And the greater. 

958
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,440
And so for for for Christians or
people that are debating between

959
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,440
staying in one system or going 
to the other, this is Hebrews 

960
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:53,280
all over. 
Again, it is. 

961
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,080
It sure is. 
It's going it's like here, why 

962
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,160
would you go back to the lesser 
thing that can't save you? 

963
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,120
That was only pointing. 
You to the greater thing they 

964
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:00,960
can see when you're in the 
fullness, yeah. 

965
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:04,520
So where? 
Where's Paul's struggle here? 

966
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,680
That they are boasting about 
their Jewish ethnicity and 

967
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:12,480
associations, that they're 
circumcised, that they have the 

968
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,720
law, that they have these rules.
But the problem is they never 

969
00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:18,920
lived within the realities that 
they were given, and they didn't

970
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,960
follow their full end, which was
the fullness of Christ. 

971
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:26,480
So this does not mean that Paul 
opposed all ceremonial law. 

972
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,960
Like in general, like Oh well, 
you can't have any rules. 

973
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,440
That's not what. 
He's he's not saying that. 

974
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,600
Or or moral obedience to God is 
irrelevant because it gains you 

975
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,240
nothing. 
That's not what he said either. 

976
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:39,440
Definitely not saying that. 
Rather, this is what Paul is 

977
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:44,160
saying, that reliance on the 
Mosaic covenant of the law of 

978
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:48,360
works, that is in the Torah and 
then beyond it, because 

979
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,240
obviously the religious 
institutions had built all these

980
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:55,720
extra systems within it. 
Both Pharisees and the scenes. 

981
00:53:55,720 --> 00:54:01,200
But to do all of that apart from
Christ and grace is empty, vain,

982
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:04,520
worthless. 
So his his struggle is not like 

983
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,400
oh, rules and regulations, rules
and regulations apart from 

984
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,760
Christ and grace is worthless. 
And that's what they kept 

985
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,160
missing if if they would have 
tithed men, curcumin and all 

986
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:17,360
these other things that he said 
the law did not say like you had

987
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:21,240
to do each individual item just 
here's the 10th Jesus wasn't mad

988
00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:23,720
that they were doing that is 
that they neglected the. 

989
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:27,400
Way your matters law. 
Which were love the Lord your 

990
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,320
God and love your neighbor. 
Yeah, and honor your mother and 

991
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,960
your father and play, you know, 
worship God alone, right like 

992
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,120
that that was that were the 
weight of your matters of. 

993
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:38,720
Law. 
But a Protestant reads that and 

994
00:54:38,720 --> 00:54:40,280
says, see, I don't have to do 
all that extra stuff. 

995
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:41,760
All that extra stuff is 
pointless. 

996
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:43,560
That's. 
Not what Jesus said, yeah. 

997
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,400
He's saying your order is wrong.
Your order and. 

998
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,520
Emphasis is wrong. 
It's disordered. 

999
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,000
You love the Lord, your God and 
your neighbors yourself. 

1000
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,680
The way you tie that curcumin 
might might look different. 

1001
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,520
Yeah, it might look different in
how you do it. 

1002
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,880
It wasn't condemning the 
heavyweight people that were 

1003
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,600
pouring heavy coins in the and 
and then in the offering plate 

1004
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,960
of their time, if you would. 
They were doing it to be heard. 

1005
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,680
It was like, let me raise this a
little higher. 

1006
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,560
So people, so people, others 
will look at what I'm doing. 

1007
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,120
It wasn't that they were giving 
because Jesus was looking once 

1008
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,720
again at the heart of it. 
You had the also the one who 

1009
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:21,400
gave all she had. 
The all she had she gave. 

1010
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,240
She gave more than the one who 
gave. 

1011
00:55:23,720 --> 00:55:26,320
You know Jesus is ludicrous 
amount of work. 

1012
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:31,360
He's looking at the heart. 
So yes, there can be rituals. 

1013
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,720
Catholics can fall victim of 
rituals where they become empty 

1014
00:55:34,720 --> 00:55:38,080
because their heart and their 
and their mind and their faith 

1015
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,600
is decreased or not involved at 
all. 

1016
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:44,040
We're not excusing that saying 
this can't exist in the system 

1017
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:45,360
of even. 
Catholicism. 

1018
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,240
It does exist like we we know it
does. 

1019
00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:50,880
It's it's it's not it's not a 
secret now gusted of hippo on 

1020
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,440
the spirit and on the letter 
talks about these things. 

1021
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,320
He says things like it is by no 
means follows that because it it

1022
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:59,800
retains not the works of the 
ancient sacraments which is the 

1023
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,760
Old Testament things you just 
said even circumcision. 

1024
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:08,440
It is therefore has no works. 
Augusta does not read Paul is 

1025
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:12,080
condemning Christian obedience. 
He's clearly interpreting these 

1026
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,440
passages to refer to the old. 
System. 

1027
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:20,480
The Old Covenant system, folks, 
the New Testament is so much. 

1028
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:25,080
So much about the Jewish 
community doing life together 

1029
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:30,120
with the Gentile community in 
Christ Jesus, that is the body 

1030
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,320
of Christ, the Church of both, 
made-up of both Jews and 

1031
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,520
Gentiles. 
We have distorted, distorted 

1032
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:41,440
this idea of works because we do
not understand that context that

1033
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:44,800
was so pivotal in the 1st 
century, so pivotal. 

1034
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,200
So what did Paul mean then? 
Because that's what we go to 

1035
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:48,960
next. 
Look at this in the way that 

1036
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,720
Paul meant it. 
It is not a post spirit filled 

1037
00:56:51,720 --> 00:56:53,680
obedience. 
That's a critical Protestant 

1038
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,200
error. 
This isn't faith versus 

1039
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:57,560
obedience. 
Actually Romans 8. 

1040
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,160
It's obedience that flows from 
faith itself. 

1041
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:04,600
Don't believe me? 
Let's let's journey through 

1042
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,080
Romans 1/5. 
The very beginning of the 

1043
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,600
letter, before he even gets into
all of these things is quite 

1044
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,800
clear to me. 
He says Through whom we have 

1045
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:18,280
received grace and apostleship 
to bring about obedience of 

1046
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:22,680
faith for the sake of His name 
among the nations. 

1047
00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:29,440
Obedience of faith. 
He later talks about those who 

1048
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,280
do not obey the gospel. 
Yep. 

1049
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,240
Oh, that's a work. 
A work. 

1050
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:39,760
No, it's not obedience to the 
gospel. 

1051
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:41,280
It's not a work. 
He talks about that to the 

1052
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,720
Thessalonica. 
He says there are those that are

1053
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,680
going to be destroyed who obeyed
not the gospel. 

1054
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:47,600
He says that later in his letter
Thessalonica. 

1055
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,480
But how do modern Protestants 
read that? 

1056
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:52,960
How do they how do they 
typically read it? 

1057
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,680
Oh, you just, you hear the 
gospel and you believe in Jesus 

1058
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,600
Christ and all you have to have 
is this mental. 

1059
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:02,000
Ascent. 
Mental ascent. 

1060
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,640
Yeah, Chapter 2, verses 6 
through 7. 

1061
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:07,520
Let's journey through Paul 
together, folks. 

1062
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,520
Here it is, for he will rendered
every man according to his 

1063
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,280
works. 
Oh wow, what do you say? 

1064
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:17,280
According to his works. 
According to his works. 

1065
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:23,080
And by the way, I this is the 
point we want to emphasize and I

1066
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:25,280
don't want to accidentally 
assume everybody understands 

1067
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:26,840
what we're saying. 
We actually are saying that 

1068
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,200
there's a distinction between 
works of the law and works. 

1069
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,560
Yes, we are, yeah. 
So if you miss that which we've 

1070
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,200
tried to build this through Dead
Sea Scrolls, what we're saying 

1071
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,840
is there are works and then 
there are works of the law and. 

1072
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,880
Those are two separate. 
Categories because they're two 

1073
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,440
separate systems. 
One is based out of those. 

1074
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,840
As you know, Agustin just called
them in a second. 

1075
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,560
I mean, he said they're ancient 
sacraments. 

1076
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,000
He's old sacraments. 
We're saying the new sacraments 

1077
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,880
are a means of grace to do the 
works, to do the works and do 

1078
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:58,960
them not out of ritual obedience
to a Jewish system that was 

1079
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,880
meant to point to the greater of
Christ, but the since we have 

1080
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,000
Christ. 
To unite us to Christ. 

1081
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,760
Which is what he said. 
He says, we have this gifting, 

1082
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,200
this grace and apostleship to 
bring about it being to faith 

1083
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,440
for the sake of His name to all 
nations, and we are called and 

1084
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,400
included in that. 
That's what He said. 

1085
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:17,760
So Romans 26 through seven, he 
goes into this, for we render 

1086
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,680
every man accord. 
He will render to every man 

1087
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,280
according His works those who by
patience and well doing, seek 

1088
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,120
for glory and honor and 
immortality. 

1089
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,560
He will give eternal life. 
I thought it was just believe. 

1090
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,680
I thought it was just believe. 
Sounds to me it sounds like some

1091
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:35,480
striving is going on I. 
Mean this is. 

1092
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,960
Who seek honor, who seek glory, 
who seek immortality, Paul says.

1093
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,400
I run the race that is set 
before me so that I might 

1094
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,800
persevere and receive the crown 
of glory in Philippians. 

1095
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,160
Didn't you say that? 
That yeah, didn't say that to 

1096
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,160
Timothy, which is which is 
repeating this and and and 

1097
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:55,560
listen, this is intriguing 
because I hear Josh Groban in 

1098
00:59:55,560 --> 01:00:00,920
the background for Protestants. 
If you just believe like, well, 

1099
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:02,840
that's not what he says, is it? 
That's not what he. 

1100
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,120
Says not mentally, not mental 
assenting anyway. 

1101
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:13,360
Those who by patience and well 
doing seek for glory and honor 

1102
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:17,200
and immortality, He will give 
eternal life. 

1103
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:24,240
But for those who are not and do
not, they don't obey the truth, 

1104
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:29,440
but obey wickedness. 
There will be wrath and there 

1105
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:34,120
will be fury. 
In other words, Jews and 

1106
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:40,040
Gentiles will be held to the 
same standard of judgment, the 

1107
01:00:40,040 --> 01:00:43,200
same standard of judgment. 
Folks, we we could hit Romans 6 

1108
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:46,000
here briefly, for the sake of 
time, I'm not going to hit all 

1109
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,400
this Romans 6. 
Romans 8 talks about these very 

1110
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,520
things. 
Romans 8 There is therefore now 

1111
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,200
no condemnation to those who are
in Christ Jesus our Lord. 

1112
01:00:56,240 --> 01:00:58,040
But you got, you can't stop 
there. 

1113
01:00:58,720 --> 01:00:59,920
You got to keep reading it, 
right? 

1114
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:01,720
Because there's a new law. 
Yep. 

1115
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:04,840
Why? 
For the law of the Spirit of 

1116
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:08,880
life is Christ Jesus. 
Who said it's free from the law 

1117
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:12,720
of sin and death? 
Again, we got to think Jew in in

1118
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,040
the sense of the Jews, how they 
understood law works for the 

1119
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:17,880
law. 
He's saying there's a new law. 

1120
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:19,680
A new law. 
The old law is gone. 

1121
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:23,440
The old law is gone. 
The old law has pointed us to 

1122
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,760
the new law who has come and he 
keeps going. 

1123
01:01:25,760 --> 01:01:29,240
He says for God has done what 
the law we can by the flesh 

1124
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:32,760
could not do, sending his own 
Son in the likeness of sinful 

1125
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,080
flesh. 
And for sin, that's the 

1126
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:38,480
incarnation, that's the 
crucifixion, that's the the 

1127
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,800
Pasca, the passion of our Lord, 
right? 

1128
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:47,240
He condemns sin in the flesh in 
order that the just requirement 

1129
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,440
of the law might be fulfilled in
us. 

1130
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,080
The just requirement of the law.
What is the just requirement of 

1131
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,520
the law? 
That we love God with our heart,

1132
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,200
soul, mind and strength and we 
love our neighbors as ourselves.

1133
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:00,520
That is the just requirement of 
the law because. 

1134
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,480
All the law and the prophet is 
hinging off all the law, and the

1135
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,760
prophets are hinging off of 
these commandments. 

1136
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,320
And if we can fulfill that, we 
have fulfilled the heart of the 

1137
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:09,920
law. 
And that was the point that 

1138
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,320
everything was going into this. 
So Paul's real target here, 

1139
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:15,240
what's his, what? 
What's he? 

1140
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,760
Why is he saying these things 
that why is he bringing these 

1141
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:19,840
contrasts? 
Well, it's Romans 3 if you want 

1142
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:24,720
to go backward and verse 27, he 
deals with the why you say why, 

1143
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:26,920
why, why would Paul bring up 
these contentions? 

1144
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,920
It feels like he is saying that 
it's faith alone in some places.

1145
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,200
Then he turns around and says 
you got to obey. 

1146
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,640
If you're not going to obey, 
you're not persevering, you're 

1147
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:36,880
not doing good. 
You won't experience eternal 

1148
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:38,840
life. 
If you do, you do experience 

1149
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:40,880
eternal life, then he's back to 
faith alone again. 

1150
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:43,240
This is the tension I always 
struggled with. 

1151
01:02:43,520 --> 01:02:45,680
But actually, when you 
understand the works of the law 

1152
01:02:45,680 --> 01:02:48,040
for what Paul all understood him
and what the time and age 

1153
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,160
understood him as, there's 
actually no contrast at all. 

1154
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:55,000
So Romans 327, what is this all 
about then? 

1155
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:59,360
What becomes our boasting? 
Is it excluded? 

1156
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:02,240
On what principle? 
On the principle of works, no. 

1157
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:06,000
But the principle of faith, What
is he ultimately getting at when

1158
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:09,680
he says he's he? 
The contrast in Romans is not 

1159
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:13,640
faith versus holiness, but grace
versus boasting. 

1160
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:15,600
He just said it. 
Yeah. 

1161
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:17,560
What becomes our? 
Boasting I want to make a 

1162
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,920
comment here because this is 
again where we, we don't 

1163
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:22,480
understand where Paul's coming 
from. 

1164
01:03:22,480 --> 01:03:27,080
We we twist his words when he 
says faith Stephen. 

1165
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:32,600
I often as a Protestant, I 
understood that to mean belief, 

1166
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:37,400
mental assent, Christ is God. 
When he is using faith, Stephen,

1167
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:42,680
he is talking about the new, the
new covenant, what has come in 

1168
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:46,720
Christ Jesus with the gospel, 
with the Church, with the 

1169
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,320
sacraments. 
All of it is rolled into one. 

1170
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,080
That is the faith that he is now
referring to. 

1171
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:55,320
It's not just a mental ascent 
from some kind of individual 

1172
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:59,240
perspective. 
It is everything convalescing 

1173
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:04,320
into one whole Jesus, his body, 
the Church, the gifts of the 

1174
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:08,040
Church that the Holy Spirit 
gives to us through the work of 

1175
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,680
the Son of God. 
That is, that is what Paul is 

1176
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:13,320
encompassing when he thinks 
about that word faith. 

1177
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,520
So this is what Paul is saying 
He's he's coming after 

1178
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:20,200
covenantal pride, ethnic 
superiority, flesh confidence, 

1179
01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:22,720
where it's like, Oh no, I could 
achieve in the flesh. 

1180
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:25,120
Catholics don't teach that. 
They do. 

1181
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:29,200
Not they we teach explicitly you
need grace and and then they 

1182
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:31,560
obviously the reliance on Torah 
possession. 

1183
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:35,640
This this is the whole argument 
right here, the big, big 

1184
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:40,320
argument, Pat So kind of in 
conclusion of this section here,

1185
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:44,080
a large portion of modern 
Protestantism reads Paul as 

1186
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:47,960
though he were debating a 16th 
century issue in the church. 

1187
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,720
And he's not. 
He's a addressing his people of 

1188
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,920
his time, Jew and Gentile 
covenant identities, law codes, 

1189
01:04:54,920 --> 01:04:57,680
boasting in the law, boasting 
what you have, what you're 

1190
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,920
around, what you were raised in,
in your circumcision. 

1191
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,040
Every man is under sin. 
Jew, Gentile, with the law, 

1192
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,880
without the law, conscience, 
creation, all these things. 

1193
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,960
Salvation can only come through 
Christ. 

1194
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:15,120
He does teach that and that it 
does come by grace through 

1195
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:19,440
faith, but that that faith and 
that grace leads to obedience to

1196
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:20,480
the gospel. 
Yeah. 

1197
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,000
So it's a different 
conversation. 

1198
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:24,680
Paul's having a different 
conversation that we people are 

1199
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:26,240
having today. 
Well, that's why, he says in 

1200
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,280
Galatians 4 in Christ Jesus, 
neither circumcision nor 

1201
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:34,760
uncircumcision counts for 
anything, but only faith working

1202
01:05:34,800 --> 01:05:38,800
through love. 
Faith working through love and 

1203
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:40,680
that is the Catholic teaching of
the Church. 

1204
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,160
All right folks, Well, that is 
all that we have time for today.

1205
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:47,160
We're so glad you joined this 
episode of Fax again. 

1206
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,640
Make sure you hit that like and 
subscribe. 

1207
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,520
Make sure you follow us on your 
favorite platforms. 

1208
01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:54,600
Leave us a comment. 
We'd love to hear from you. 

1209
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,080
What do you think about faith 
and works? 

1210
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,360
How do you believe these 
passages are giving out the 

1211
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:05,440
teachings of what Paul meant? 
Do you think Protestantism has 

1212
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:08,680
been living within the true and 
right interpretation of this or 

1213
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,520
do you believe they've fallen 
into error or the Catholics and 

1214
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,520
why? 
And if you do respond, which we 

1215
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:17,600
open the door for you to do so 
interact with what we actually 

1216
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:20,280
said in the discussion. 
Don't just come out and and skip

1217
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,760
it. 
Read one line or hear one thing,

1218
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:26,320
then pause and just blow up. 
Actually respond to exact things

1219
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,400
versus statements, claims. 
Argue with Irenaeus, argue with,

1220
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:33,280
you know, Clement or whoever you
have in your mind. 

1221
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,120
Go ahead, knock yourself out, 
you're free to do that, but at 

1222
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,200
least interact with the content.
Absolutely. 

1223
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,320
All right folks, that's all we 
have time for. 

1224
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,680
As always, grace and peace to 
you. 

1225
01:06:44,040 --> 01:07:36,840
God bless. 
The.