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My toy. 
Welcome to another episode of 

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FAX. 
I'm your host, Steven Boyce. 

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That was the cherubic hymn. 
Beautiful words if you didn't 

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understand them. 
Here's the English. 

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Let us who mystically re 
represent the cherubim and sing 

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the thrice holy hymn to the life
giving Trinity, lay aside all 

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worldly cares that we may 
receive the King of All 

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invisibly escorted by the 
angelic host. 

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Hallelujah, Hallelujah Ali 
beautiful him because at the end

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of the day it is a Eucharistic 
Him. 

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When we think about the time 
that we're at the table and the 

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priest is consecrating, calling 
on all cherubim and hosts of 

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heaven coming together to bring 
for us are in His people the 

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wonderful body and blood of 
Christ. 

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It's a beautiful hymn, beautiful
hymn. 

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And the Eastern Orthodox use it 
quite a bit, even the Eastern 

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Rite Catholics as well. 
Well, today we have a special 

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episode because I'm doing an 
interview with a guest who I've 

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recently come across on 
Instagram and started watching 

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some of the content that was 
going out, mostly in the shorts.

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And I really enjoyed what I was 
saying because what I found is 

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that there's a person who is in 
the process of searching similar

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to where my wife and I were just
a few months ago before we 

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converted back in November. 
And So what I wanted to do is I 

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wanted to bring Hannah on. 
Hannah, it is so good to have 

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you on the channel. 
Thank you so much. 

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That was a jam, by the way. 
Like you have to give me all the

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details of that chant because I 
was, I'm all over here, like 

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nodding my head. 
That was so awesome. 

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My husband's a musician, so I 
really appreciate music. 

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Oh, man, Yeah. 
And you know, the Eastern 

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Catholics as well as the Eastern
Orthodox, they do some of the 

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best chance I've ever heard. 
And the language and the wording

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of that is in. 
Beautiful. 

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Oh yeah, I loved it. 
Loved it. 

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So I'm going to kind of jump 
into a bio here, but I want you 

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to break this down a little bit.
Obviously, your name is Hannah 

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Cruz, you're an author, social 
media personality. 

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You're all over social media. 
I've seen you you host the 

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Lighten Up podcast, which by the
way, I want everybody stop right

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now that is listening to this 
video and go check it out. 

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And then what you do is you hit 
like on one of her videos and 

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subscribe. 
That's the best thing to do. 

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That's the best way to help 
somebody. 

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Your former journalist and your 
lover of Jesus Christ spent the 

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last eight months researching 
early church history. 

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That's always dangerous if 
you're not Catholic or Orthodox 

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and LED to your deep interest in
reverence to the Catholic Church

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itself. 
And now you're creating content,

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kind of hitting myths and and 
debunking Protestant 

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misconceptions that go on like, 
well, this is what we think the 

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Catholics are. 
And you're actually setting the 

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record. 
Actually, that's not what 

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Catholics teach. 
And this is actually where the 

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Protestants are wrong. 
So that's it's been intriguing 

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to watch your journey. 
So tell us a little bit about 

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that. 
It was not expected. 

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I tell people all the time, I'm 
like, this is the most exciting,

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unbelievable, lonely, wild 
experience of my life. 

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Very unexpected. 
Just not something that I did 

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that I ever thought would ever 
happen to me. 

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Because again, I mean, growing 
up, I just thought the Catholics

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were woo woo and idolaters and a
little weird, all that stuff. 

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And I really didn't grow up 
around a lot of Catholics 

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either. 
I grew up in Deep South Texas. 

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So like on the border of Texas 
and Mexico, So I guess you would

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say that the lot, a lot of the 
Mexican population that I grew 

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up around, I guess they were 
Catholics. 

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But, you know, we're in Texas. 
And so the majority of churches 

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that we have are Protestant 
churches. 

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And so I grew up very 
evangelical and yeah, all of my 

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friends were Protestants or in 
the on the charismatic side, 

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really. 
And so it wasn't until last 

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September that I started really 
asking a lot of questions and I 

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was just like, something's off. 
And I don't know what it is. 

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I couldn't really put my, my 
finger on it. 

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I've loved Jesus my whole entire
life. 

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I loved my childhood. 
I, I appreciate the background 

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that I have spiritually. 
I mean, if anything, it gave me 

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a love for the Bible and a love 
for Scripture. 

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And it's still that love for 
Jesus inside of me. 

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But there was just something 
that was just really drawing me 

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to ask questions that I normally
wouldn't have asked. 

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And it led me down this whole 
rabbit hole of like, history and

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reading the early church fathers
and then realizing, oh, my 

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goodness, like these early 
church fathers look super 

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Catholic. 
That's kind of scary. 

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So it was so weird for me to 
read these ancient writings and 

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then to compare it to Scripture 
and realize, Oh my goodness, 

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there's so much of Scripture 
that I memorized my whole life, 

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but maybe I didn't fully 
understand until I read the 

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early church fathers. 
And so all these things like 

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little puzzle pieces coming 
together and I was like, this is

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really cool, but this is very 
terrifying. 

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I don't know how in the world 
I'm be able to do this to, to 

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break this to my family, to my 
friends that I'm interested in 

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this. 
So yeah, yeah, I told you it's 

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been an 8 month, 8 month journey
of like basically 6 to 8 hours a

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day every day, like an absolute 
psycho listening to all kinds of

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debates and reading books or in 
prayer. 

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I mean, I'm just really wanting 
to discern what the truth is. 

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And I'm realizing that even 
though where I was was precious 

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and I'm grateful for it, I can't
say it's the fullness of the 

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truth of what Jesus left us. 
I think that there's just pieces

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missing. 
And so I want to find what those

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pieces are. 
And I feel like I'm finding it 

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in original Christianity with 
the with the Catholic Church. 

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I've looked a lot into Orthodoxy
too, but there's just something 

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that keeps drawing me. 
And so that's kind of where I'm 

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at right now. 
So I did I I started creating 

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content about being bold, about 
asking these questions even 

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though it's been super scary. 
Yeah, it is scary and and but 

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it's exciting at the same time. 
There's a lot of mixed emotions 

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in this. 
There's fears that come in with 

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it, especially in the pure 
section, like if your family's 

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one way and you know, it was 
Saint John Henry Newman who said

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to be deep in church histories, 
to cease to be Protestant. 

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And it, it's always interesting 
to me when somebody says, Hey, 

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what should I study? 
And I usually point them in a 

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certain direction because this 
channel is facts. 

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The it's an acronym as well as a
play on words. 

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And the first one is fathers. 
And so that's what led me here. 

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I was a Baptist doing a PhD, 
studying the 2nd century church.

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And that's what led to my 
conversion ultimately, is 

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studying the early church 
fathers. 

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And there's, you know, there's 
some mix about that, about being

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deep in church history. 
Some people have done that and 

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become Anglican or Orthodox or 
Lutheran, but they typically 

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found themselves going to 
something more traditional with 

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a Bishop, ancient practices. 
So which church, father, did you

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read that would you would say 
was probably the most 

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influential that started making 
you really pause and go, you 

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know, that doesn't sound like my
everyday Baptist Church. 

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Which father probably hit you 
the hardest? 

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Most definitely Ignatius. 
I mean it. 

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It had to have been Ignatius. 
I mean it. 

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No brainer, no brainer. 
But what I did was I got that 

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book, I think Bishop Robert 
Baron probably wrote, wrote the 

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foreword or he participated in 
this book, that early Church 

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father's collection. 
So it was like a collection of 

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early Church father's writings. 
So you had Ignatius in there, 

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you had Justin Martyr, you had 
Polycarp, you had the Didique 

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you you had, you had all of them
kind of in one. 

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And so I had just like this real
thick book and I just was 

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devouring it. 
But yeah, Ignatius was, I was 

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just like, OK, that looks super 
Catholic. 

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And that is not like anything 
like the American churches that 

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I've grown up in. 
It just, it just doesn't. 

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And so it just really made a big
impact on me, made me start 

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asking these questions. 
And now my husband too, is 

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starting to ask these questions.
I think I'm a little further 

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along in my research journey 
than my husband is. 

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I think that he's more 
methodical and he wants to 

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really weigh these things out. 
And I'm just like taking all 

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this in with a fire hose, right?
Like I should be drinking this 

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with a, with a garden hose, but 
I can't help myself. 

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I mean, I even went through the 
Father Mike Schmitz's catechism 

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in a year, in four months. 
Again, it's crazy. 

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Just crazy. 
But I need to watch out. 

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You might. 
Drown. 

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Oh I know, seriously. 
But after I even listened to 

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that, the whole Catechism, I was
like, I don't disagree with 

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anything. 
Like that's what's so wild is 

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like when I hear it from a 
Catholic's mouth of what 

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Catholics believe compared to 
all the misconceptions of what 

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I've been told by Protestants of
what Catholics believe. 

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I realized that that ain't it. 
Actually, that's not it. 

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Now, I might not understand 
everything yet, but I realized 

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that it's not what I was told. 
And so hearing it in that way is

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just very different, very 
enlightening to me. 

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No, I did not pay her. 
To those that are listening to 

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say Ignatius because that's been
a hot topic on this channel 

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lately. 
Yeah. 

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Oh, yeah. 
I, I've James White and I have 

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been going back and forth on 
Ignatius. 

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We, you know, former mentor and 
I've done a, a newest release on

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Ignatius, especially on 
capturing Catholicism. 

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If you've missed that, folks, go
check out Cameron's channel. 

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Cesar and I both responded to 
the most recent statements about

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the letter to the Romans, so I 
did not pay her to say that 

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just. 
Happens. 

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That people that read Ignatius 
typically don't come out Baptist

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unless they are actually 
twisting what he says. 

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Things like no Bishop, no 
church, absolutely believed in 

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the real presence in the 
Eucharist. 

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So bang, your bishops like 
obeying Christ himself. 

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I mean, you can't get any 
further than that. 

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There's three ministers. 
You have Bishop, presbyter, and 

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Deacon. 
There is not 2. 

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The Bishop is a different name 
than the Presbyterian that's 

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addressed. 
So to try to say they're all the

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same, you got to do a lot of 
backflips to get your stuff out 

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of this. 
But it's interesting. 

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I always ask people that 
question, especially that come 

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on the channel, like who was it 
that was influential? 

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And almost always it goes back 
to Ignatius of Anion. 

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And that is incredible. 
Why? 

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That's why I wrote a research 
paper on him. 

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That's why. 
It's under. 

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Review right now, yeah, and 
hopefully it'll be published to 

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real soon in the journal. 
He was also the biggest turn 

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around for me was Ignatius and 
then I I produced a document on 

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the dedicate as well. 
And one of the other ones, the 

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best one to spend the most time 
on legislation on was first 

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Clement, Clement of Rome writing
to the Corinthian church. 

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Jeff, you had a chance to 
reclement. 

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I think that was in that book of
collection. 

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It would have been. 
Yeah, I think it was, yes. 

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So good. 
Beautiful. 

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Yeah, the 1st century, I mean, 
Clement of Rome was 96 AD and we

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were reading men who were with 
Peter Hall and with John. 

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I mean, these guys, we're 
incredible. 

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So what led you to finally kind 
of get the, the confidence to go

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to a mass? 
Because I know that's the 

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biggest step. 
This is the biggest step. 

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I mean, I, I remember for the 
first time, my wife told me we 

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were going to continue to be in 
turmoil and beat ourselves up 

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until we actually just went. 
So once we did that, that was 

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the biggest step. 
So what motivated you to finally

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take that step to go visit? 
Well, I think that the desire 

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was implanted in me when I was 
really young. 

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So the first time that I ever 
went to a Mass, I just, I just 

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did a video on this. 
But it was so funny because I 

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was like 910 years old and I had
spent the night, spent the night

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00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:05,400
with a friend and she was a 
Catholic friend. 

226
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,000
And we went the next morning to 
Sunday Mass. 

227
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,480
And I was so pumped. 
I was like, oh, I get to go to a

228
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,560
Catholic Church. 
This is almost scandalous. 

229
00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:15,680
Besides, I've always been told 
it was so bad. 

230
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:20,520
And so I was so excited to go. 
And so when I walked in, I 

231
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,960
remember it was so reverent. 
And we were up and down and, you

232
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,280
know, we're kneeling and we're, 
you know, doing all these things

233
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:26,720
that I was super unfamiliar 
with. 

234
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,840
But then there was some points 
where everyone started to kind 

235
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,160
of greet each other at my little
church that I grew up in it, the

236
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,720
pastor would say, now greet 
someone next to you and you may 

237
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,680
be seated. 
And so we would just go around 

238
00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:40,920
and start talking to people and 
start, you know, saying hi, 

239
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:42,640
hello. 
Well, everyone was saying 

240
00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,000
something as they were greeting 
each other. 

241
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,920
I thought they were saying 
please to meet you, but they 

242
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:49,800
weren't. 
Please be with you. 

243
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,960
So I'll, I'll please to meet 
you, please to meet you. 

244
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,440
Just ridiculous. 
My friend thought it was the 

245
00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,560
funniest thing ever did that, 
that I totally blew it up there.

246
00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:00,680
And then I ended up my friend, 
like, I don't know, like she 

247
00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:02,720
just let me go up and take the 
Eucharist. 

248
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:03,760
And I probably should have done 
that. 

249
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,560
Yeah. 
But I didn't know that like 9 

250
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:07,120
years old. 
So I don't know. 

251
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,520
Maybe it just instilled 
something in me back then. 

252
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,880
You would be interested. 
But it wasn't until again last 

253
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,560
September that I started again 
asking these questions that I 

254
00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:19,440
was just like, some of the most 
brilliant minds of our 

255
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,880
generation are either Catholic 
curious or they're Catholic. 

256
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,720
Why? 
And then I did start going down 

257
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,880
that rabbit hole of of just 
history and and steeping so deep

258
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,040
into that. 
But I think that the thing that 

259
00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,080
I was noticing in the 
charismatic circles that I was 

260
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,160
in was there was such a huge 
shakedown happening. 

261
00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,040
There was people that were 
pastors that were falling and, 

262
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,560
and prophets that were being 
revealed as is, not prophets and

263
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,640
faking it. 
And, you know, it was, it was a 

264
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:47,680
disappointing thing. 
And I don't want to say that my 

265
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,880
interest in, you know, original 
Christianity or the Catholic 

266
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,440
Church is because of a 
resentment that I had towards my

267
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,040
upbringing. 
I don't want to say that. 

268
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,160
I just want to say that I, I 
just noticed something was off 

269
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,080
and I'm like, I just want to 
know what the truth is. 

270
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,240
And I don't feel like that's it.
And I, even people that I'm, 

271
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,480
that I surrounded myself with 
just saying, Oh, God said this 

272
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,600
is and, and he didn't. 
And I'm like, well, I, that's, 

273
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,680
that puts a little bit of, of 
fear of the Lord in me. 

274
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,560
I don't want to ever associate 
myself with something that, you 

275
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:18,920
know, says it's God when it's 
not. 

276
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,960
I just want to know what God is 
actually saying, what he wants, 

277
00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,840
what his voice actually sounds 
like, and also what his the the 

278
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,080
most perfect Christian theology 
actually is. 

279
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,200
And if this isn't it, then what 
is? 

280
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,520
And so that did just like bring 
me down that rabbit hole and I 

281
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,560
would share kind of some of the 
things I was learning with my 

282
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,320
husband and, and he was kind of 
on the same wavelength as me 

283
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,280
where we were just like God, 
like something's, something's 

284
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:44,320
off. 
I don't know what it is. 

285
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,560
We also watch this documentary 
called the Religion Business by 

286
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,880
Nathan Apfel and it's on Amazon 
Prime. 

287
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,520
And he basically goes into the 
financials of the American 

288
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,960
church and 99% of it being 
Protestant churches, these big 

289
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,800
mega churches that are highly 
abusing and misusing the 

290
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,120
finances of these people and 
enriching themselves with it. 

291
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,960
And just kind of uncovering 
things that we kind of always 

292
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:10,160
kind of knew that something was 
off. 

293
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,400
But to actually see it on paper 
and to see it in in video form 

294
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,720
was just kind of infuriating. 
And both of us were just like, 

295
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,160
man, like, well, then, then what
is it? 

296
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,320
Now, I will say that the 
documentary was very unbiased. 

297
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,760
And there was obviously he went 
into the history of the Catholic

298
00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,720
Church like doing the 
indulgences stuff and all the 

299
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,600
disorder that was there too. 
But I'm like also sitting back 

300
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,000
looking like, yeah, well, yeah, 
Martin Luther didn't like the 

301
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,960
whole, oh, paying for 
indulgences stuff, but that kind

302
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:38,640
of looks like what the carries 
world is doing. 

303
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,640
I mean, give me money and God 
will give you blessings, you 

304
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:42,720
know. 
Plant your seed. 

305
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:44,800
Plant your seed to that a tree. 
Can bloom. 

306
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,400
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And I'm like, I think he would 

307
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,680
be rolling in his grave if he 
even saw what was going on. 

308
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:54,720
It's just yucky. 
So that alone, on top of so many

309
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,480
other things, I finally told my 
husband I was like, should we 

310
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:01,480
try a Catholic Mass? 
And he was just like, yeah, so. 

311
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,920
So we did and we loved it so 
much that we kept going and 

312
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,520
going and going and now we're 
like so in love with it. 

313
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,079
Even our kids are in love with 
it. 

314
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,119
And that was what I was really 
nervous about because it's not 

315
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,240
as fun, you know, Catholic Mass 
and it's fun. 

316
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,920
It's, it's a little bit more 
boring and you know, not there's

317
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,240
not big smoke machines and prey 
songs and everyone's dancing all

318
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:25,520
that stuff. 
It's just not like that. 

319
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,800
But my kids adore it and they 
they want to go back every 

320
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:31,440
single Sunday. 
So I'm like, well, maybe we're 

321
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,800
on the right track here. 
I think we are. 

322
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,960
I, I think, I think you are as 
well. 

323
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,800
Of course, I would encourage you
to send the track. 

324
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:39,960
And, and you know, it's kind of 
surprising with, with that 

325
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,400
because my children obviously 
grew up in the evangelical world

326
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,120
as well, used to the children's 
programs. 

327
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:48,320
And a lot of times they wouldn't
even be in the service. 

328
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:49,880
They'd be in their own little 
children's church. 

329
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,880
They hate that stuff. 
Like they want to be in the mass

330
00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,040
with myself and Claire. 
They want to be with us. 

331
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,560
And it's, it's a beautiful thing
as a dad to look over on my 

332
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,600
riot. 
I see my wife and, and she's 

333
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,840
kneeling and I see my daughter 
and I see my son. 

334
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,160
And to see them, even if they 
don't fully understand what's 

335
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,960
going on. 
And although they ask a lot of 

336
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,560
questions and they're pretty 
smart and they had to be 

337
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,800
catechized. 
So they learned a lot to see how

338
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:21,600
they have shaped their own lives
around the Mass is, is just a 

339
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,480
relief. 
It's a relief. 

340
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,480
And I remember just, I think it 
was 2 weeks ago, I'm sitting in 

341
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,360
the Mass and I thought about how
beautiful it is to have my 

342
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:35,280
family in the ark of salvation 
and to think about we're safe. 

343
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,200
We're not safe from problems. 
We're not safe from this. 

344
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,520
But in this moment, we're in the
safest place that God could ever

345
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,640
put to for human beings. 
And that's with the people of 

346
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,360
God. 
Join with angels and archangels 

347
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:49,760
and all the hosts of heaven, the
Church triumphant, the Church 

348
00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,400
militant all together coming 
around the table. 

349
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,600
And so it's a beautiful thing 
for your family because the 

350
00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:01,840
Catholic Church has a interest 
in the home that goes above and 

351
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,360
beyond what I ever experienced. 
I'm not saying there's not good 

352
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:05,840
homes in the Protestant. 
World. 

353
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,800
But the emphasis on the family, 
especially in the mass, was a 

354
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,440
big draw for us as well, so. 
So. 

355
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,160
You. 
So you and your family. 

356
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,560
You. 
You go to Mass? 

357
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,040
Did you go with the children the
first time or just you and your 

358
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:24,000
husband? 
I went a couple times by myself 

359
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,640
before we all went. 
So there was some like noonday 

360
00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,600
masses that I would go to and I 
would just kind of like, but 

361
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,760
yes, yes, I would, I would do a 
couple of those. 

362
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,440
And then finally we decided 
together to to go all together 

363
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,040
and we did that. 
We went all together, me and my 

364
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:42,080
husband and my kids and the 
first mass that we went to in 

365
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,600
this this sweet church. 
Love this church. 

366
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,960
Love the priest at this church. 
Definitely not as traditional as

367
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,320
a little bit more modernized. 
So I think it was a good foot in

368
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,080
the door for us to really they 
just like, hey, like, I mean, 

369
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:54,480
they're singing hymns that I do 
know. 

370
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:58,640
And it's, you know, it's still 
different, but yet it's it's 

371
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,480
something that we can kind of 
transition to a little bit 

372
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,880
easier. 
And so it was fantastic. 

373
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,760
We loved it. 
And then we noticed that there 

374
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:09,360
was a Catholic Church literally 
like across the street ish from 

375
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:10,800
us. 
We live right by a highway. 

376
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,440
So it's like across the highway,
it's right there like 2 seconds 

377
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:14,920
away. 
And so we're like, well, maybe 

378
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,040
we can try that one. 
So I went one day by myself to 

379
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,320
try it and realize, whoa, this 
is way more traditional. 

380
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,280
Like way more traditional. 
I mean like. 

381
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,480
I mean, the smells and bells and
I loved it, but I was like, oh, 

382
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,040
I don't know, like this might 
freak my husband out, like he 

383
00:20:29,120 --> 00:20:32,240
might get really freaked out. 
And so I kind of kept going and 

384
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:33,960
kept going. 
And then I had to sit down with 

385
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,000
that priest and I was just like,
look, this is this is where I'm 

386
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:38,120
at. 
I don't know what I'm doing. 

387
00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:39,440
I don't even know what I'm 
looking for. 

388
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,160
I just know that I'm being drawn
this direction. 

389
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,040
And this priest happened to be a
former Anglican priest. 

390
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,920
And so he said, look like this 
church it, I mean, all the 

391
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,080
parishes are awesome and in our 
town, but they said this one 

392
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:54,680
kind of, you know, is very 
special in that lots of 

393
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,040
Protestants are, you know, 
converting and they they come to

394
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,760
this church because I myself was
an Anglican priest. 

395
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,320
And so I know that world and I 
know all the questions and we're

396
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,280
familiar with the, you know, 
arguments that the other side 

397
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,920
has. 
And so whenever they catechize 

398
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,480
people, it's it's pretty 
fantastic. 

399
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,480
So we've had great meetings with
him. 

400
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,120
So yeah, now, now we're over 
here at this very traditional 

401
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,320
smells and bells every single 
Sunday church. 

402
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:23,360
And it's, it's fantastic. 
We really, really do love it. 

403
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:29,000
The, the beauty of the mass, 
especially when it's done in 

404
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,280
such a reverent way with, with 
all of the things that appeals 

405
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,080
to all those senses, You're, 
you're getting all the senses in

406
00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,520
worship. 
The smells are there obviously 

407
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,640
for scent, you know, taste the 
mass, the Eucharist, touch, all 

408
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,440
these things are happening. 
All of our senses are being 

409
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:46,720
drawn in worship. 
It's a beautiful thing. 

410
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,680
We're, we're more of the 
traditionalists ourselves. 

411
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,160
Of course, we were Anglo 
Catholic, so we enjoyed the high

412
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,000
Church before becoming Roman 
Gathic. 

413
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,720
There are low church Anglicans 
as well, but many of them, they 

414
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,120
like that. 
So especially if they came from 

415
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:05,240
the Episcopal world. 
So you walk into that mass, you 

416
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:09,480
get hit with a, you know, an 
amount of incense that'll just 

417
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,600
take you into a new dimension. 
So you, you finally go into 

418
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,280
there. 
I'm assuming that priest 

419
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,720
probably was at Orientem. 
He's probably facing away from 

420
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,600
the congregation, so at 
Orientem, facing east. 

421
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,280
It's a beautiful thing. 
When you were in that mass, did 

422
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,000
you feel like you were in 
Narnia? 

423
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:32,720
A little bit. 
Yes, a little bit. 

424
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,200
It really did. 
It is. 

425
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,480
It's like you're stepping into a
whole new world. 

426
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,960
The ordinary is that ordinary of
the chair of Saint Peter. 

427
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:42,920
I don't know if you've heard of 
that new Ordinary. 

428
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,480
You are. 
No way. 

429
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,120
That's crazy. 
OK. 

430
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,840
Well, that's ordinary. 
Yes, yes, He literally was just 

431
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,440
at our parish a couple of weeks 
ago because he was installing or

432
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,360
instituting or installing our 
parish to become an actual 

433
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:02,840
parish. 
It was an acting parish, but now

434
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,800
it's like an official parish. 
And now our priest is the 

435
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,320
official pastor of the official 
parish. 

436
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,000
So I did get to see him and it 
was. 

437
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,120
So you're getting the very 
Anglican, that is a very Anglo 

438
00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:16,680
Catholic feel, yes. 
And so you're actually getting 

439
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,520
because there's a lot of 
assuming they're using the Saint

440
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,040
Gregory Prayer book and things 
like that, there's still a lot 

441
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,680
of the Elizabethan D thou. 
Yes. 

442
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,440
But there are some differences 
that I'm going to point out and 

443
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,120
see if I if I've got your priest
down the posturing. 

444
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:37,000
There's even interesting 
differences that next time you 

445
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,960
go to a Roman right Mass instead
of an English, so to speak Mass,

446
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,520
they're all Roman. 
But if you look at it from that 

447
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:50,360
perspective, watch people when 
you do the Creed, you'll notice 

448
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:54,040
typically that in an ordinary 
parish they will kneel 

449
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,160
completely when it's talking 
about He came down from heaven. 

450
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,560
Came down from heaven, and then 
we kneel, and then as. 

451
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,040
Opposed to just bowing. 
Yes, probably. 

452
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,560
And then we and then we pop 
right back up. 

453
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,920
Yeah, we do. 
And so you'll also notice at the

454
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:13,000
end of the Creed, in a lot of 
Anglican ordinary parishes, I 

455
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,600
look forward to the resurrection
of the dead. 

456
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,880
They'll cross themselves at the 
resurrection of the dead, 

457
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,840
whereas if you go to a Roman 
Rite, you won't see them do 

458
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,160
that. 
And if you do, you know they're 

459
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,360
a part of the secret Anglican 
ordinary group. 

460
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,000
But I'm. 
Correct. 

461
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:29,360
OK, so that's what's on your 
computer then. 

462
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,440
That's like the lowest, is it? 
But I think that on our church 

463
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,480
is like that exact logo, that 
exact cross. 

464
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,240
This is the Jerusalem cross and 
I it's my favorite form of the 

465
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,000
Jerusalem. 
It's in it's in the logo, 

466
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,880
obviously it's in the fax logo. 
It's my favorite. 

467
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,320
Of course it goes back to the 
Crusades, but it's a beautiful 

468
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,480
thing that you you entered into 
an ordinary parish because it's 

469
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,360
unusual, but Protestants do 
enjoy and that's why the 

470
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:58,240
ordinary is growing. 
It's only, let's see, it was 

471
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,840
created in 2009 by Pope Benedict
16th. 

472
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,440
It's only been in America for 
about roughly since 2011, but it

473
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,520
is growing and a lot of 
Anglicans, Methodists are coming

474
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,360
into that. 
So that's really cool that you 

475
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:16,680
get to experience the tradition 
because you're actually getting 

476
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,760
English patrimony with Roman, 
right? 

477
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,800
It's a beautiful thing. 
So. 

478
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,360
You go in, you get hit with a a 
puff of smoke that's called 

479
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:30,440
incense. 
What was the next thing that you

480
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,520
noticed? 
Because you typically when we go

481
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,880
to these things, we're more 
observers in the first account. 

482
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,120
What else did you observe that 
just caught your eye that you 

483
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:41,160
just you couldn't get over? 
Well, at this new parish, he's 

484
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:45,760
singing everything, like at the 
yeah, he's literally singing the

485
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,120
the scriptures and he's singing 
the chance, and he's singing the

486
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,400
everything that he's supposed to
say. 

487
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,680
At the other parish that we went
to the, you know, Roman, I 

488
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,480
guess, yes, it was all spoken. 
It was all something that you 

489
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,040
could understand. 
But that was also very different

490
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,520
for me too. 
And I think that's also why I 

491
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,920
was like, Oh, no, my husband's 
going to get freaked out because

492
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,160
he's singing and the whole 
thing. 

493
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,840
But I ended up appreciating it 
because I just found it so 

494
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,000
beautiful and so reverent and so
just so special. 

495
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,160
So I did find that very 
different. 

496
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,400
I also found that lots of the 
women were veiling and I found 

497
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,400
that so beautiful. 
And I always wondered that, you 

498
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,840
know, as, as I would read the 
Bible and how it would talk 

499
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,160
about, you know, all, all of 
those things. 

500
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,520
A lot, a lot of things about 
women that really in the 

501
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,200
American church, we just kind of
like discard like women pastors 

502
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,080
are not kind of kind of OK in 
the Bible. 

503
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,160
But in America, it's like, oh, 
it's just a different time now. 

504
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,600
Like now we can have the women 
pastors and talking about women,

505
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,600
you know, using veils to cover 
their hair. 

506
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,920
And then, you know, now in 
America we're like, oh, that was

507
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:47,360
a different time. 
We don't need to do that. 

508
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:50,920
So I mean, it was just so 
interesting because I was just 

509
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,280
like, man. 
Yeah, so the veiling is a hard 

510
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,120
question too, because yeah, my 
wife, she'll veil when we go to 

511
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:01,320
the altar and so on. 
My daughter and some women will 

512
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,880
veil the whole time. 
It's an interesting concept too,

513
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,520
because it's something that, you
know, there's a stigma there 

514
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,440
and, and especially in the 
United States that well, that's 

515
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:14,520
oppressive to women because it's
a symbol of of submission, which

516
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,040
in a sense it is. 
But there's also a beautiful 

517
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,400
thing and and I remember talking
to a person about the veiling 

518
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:24,120
process. 
Everything that is holy and that

519
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,080
sanctuary is veiled. 
Everything you look at, most 

520
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,120
images of the Blessed Virgin she
is. 

521
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:31,960
Veiled. 
You look at the table, it is 

522
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:32,960
veiled. 
When they bring out the 

523
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,080
elements, it is veiled. 
When they put it back in the 

524
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,040
Tabernacle, it is veiled. 
You look at anything that is in 

525
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:43,480
the that is holy, it is veiled. 
It is, it's actually a symbol of

526
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,400
holiness and sobriety more than 
that. 

527
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,840
So that is something it's not 
required. 

528
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,600
Catholics don't have to do 
women, Catholic women do not 

529
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,280
have to do it. 
But one of the only statements 

530
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:59,240
we have likely, and then some 
would say it's apocryphal, but 

531
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,040
from Saint Linus who is 
mentioned in the book of Second 

532
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,280
Timothy, who is the next 
successor to Peter. 

533
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,640
Right. 
The only statement we have from 

534
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,640
Saint Linus is that women should
avail for Mass. 

535
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,280
Yeah. 
And so it's kind of interesting.

536
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,880
How? 
Women at the Linus from the 

537
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,600
Peanuts, but Linus the the 
second Bishop of Rome, the. 2nd.

538
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,600
But it's interesting, I was kind
of curious your thoughts on 

539
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,640
that. 
So do you find that 

540
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,320
uncomfortable as as a female who
grew up in Protestantism, does 

541
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,200
it feel oppressive or do you see
it as oppressive? 

542
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,480
Because there's a lot of debate 
about this amongst women. 

543
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,720
No, I don't, I don't feel that 
way at all. 

544
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,520
I, I, I am very traditional in 
my, in my thinking, in my 

545
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,080
values, especially when it comes
to marriage, when it comes to 

546
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,200
the roles of women. 
I'm very traditional and 

547
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,960
conservative in my thinking. 
So it didn't freak me out. 

548
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,640
And if, if and when I will say 
when, when we end up becoming 

549
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,040
Catholic, I will be very 
comfortable doing that myself. 

550
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,040
And especially now that you've 
explained it that way, because 

551
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,560
this is the thing with this 
journey of like trying to 

552
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,800
understand these things and, and
learning these things like it's,

553
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,120
it makes so much sense because 
it can take be taken so out of 

554
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,280
context and people can 
misunderstand things so very 

555
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,520
easily. 
But that makes so much sense 

556
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,920
biblically. 
It makes sense in, in just a 

557
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,400
really beautiful way. 
So no, it would not bother me in

558
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,160
the least majority of my friends
and family probably. 

559
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,520
They would probably think that 
was real weird, but I don't 

560
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,800
think it's weird. 
Well, there's a lot of debates, 

561
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,760
you know, because Paul talks 
about women covering their head 

562
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,080
because of the angels. 
And if you, if you're 

563
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,800
Protestant, you, you beat your 
head against a wall on that. 

564
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,000
It's like, what does that even 
mean? 

565
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,960
But if you understand the mass, 
that there are angels present in

566
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,240
the mass, there's actually an 
element to that in the holiness.

567
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,120
And again, veiling isn't a bad 
thing. 

568
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,960
I mean, Moses was in the 
presence of the holiness of God 

569
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:51,520
so much they had to put a veil 
on him because he was so taken 

570
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,320
back and glowing from the 
holiness of God being in the 

571
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,720
presence of God. 
So it's not a bad thing. 

572
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,920
It's actually a very, very good 
thing. 

573
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,640
You mentioned chant. 
Chant's intriguing to me because

574
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,160
it's a very, very old tradition.
Of course, everybody calls it 

575
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,160
the Gregorian chant. 
Going back to Gregory, he's 

576
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,760
actually earlier than that. 
I don't know why he gets credit 

577
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,400
other than he was a phenomenal 
musician and writer. 

578
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,840
And right. 
Yeah, uh huh. 

579
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,560
Well, maybe I'm using the wrong 
word too, I don't know. 

580
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,880
No, again, I'm like. 
They sing it, but it's 

581
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:21,960
technically chant but. 
Right. 

582
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,080
Why do we do that? 
Right. 

583
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,320
And it's going back to actually 
Hebrew Jewish tradition. 

584
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:29,440
Right. 
Yes. 

585
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,320
The Jews learned the Torah. 
Many Jews could memorize the 

586
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,320
entire Genesis through 
Deuteronomy, and they learned it

587
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,680
by chant and song. 
Hebrew is a very musical 

588
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,960
language. 
We memorize music quicker than 

589
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,440
just statements of fact. 
That's right. 

590
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:44,960
That's. 
Right. 

591
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,920
And if you catch yourself and if
you're honest and your children 

592
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,320
are honest, your husband's 
honest, there are times that 

593
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,160
you're not at Mass. 
It could be a Wednesday and you 

594
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,800
haven't been to Mass in three 
days and you are humming the 

595
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:56,920
Lord be. 
With you. 

596
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,320
Or something like that. 
Like in your head. 

597
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,240
Like it is in your head. 
And. 

598
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,160
And even when you do the, I'm 
assuming they do the creed, do 

599
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,880
they chant the creed or do they 
state the creed there? 

600
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,480
We state the creed. 
OK, some sing it and it's 

601
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,440
actually very beautiful. 
And my children are learning 

602
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,720
Latin by chanting a lot of Latin
at times because we even with 

603
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,440
Latin, but you memorize it. 
It's so easy to memorize. 

604
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,680
So it's a beautiful thing, even 
though it's kind of weird at 

605
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,960
first if you're if you're a 
Protestant, it's like, what is 

606
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,600
he doing? 
Why is he like, why is he, why 

607
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,840
are we yelling back at him? 
It's actually beautiful because 

608
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:39,400
your, your mind is actually 
being engaged in what's being 

609
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,080
said and you're memorizing it 
while you're actually hearing 

610
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,400
it. 
It's it's a beautiful thing. 

611
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,120
Yeah, I think that that's what's
so cool about God, kind of like 

612
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,440
how you were mentioning about 
the five senses, Like that's why

613
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,200
the Mass is so incredible and 
why the Catholic faith is so 

614
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:53,840
incredible. 
Well, because it does it. 

615
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,400
It activates all those senses. 
It activates how you can 

616
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,160
memorize things better and 
activate your brain and activate

617
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,160
your mind. 
Like it's just, it's just like 

618
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,760
everything. 
It's perfect. 

619
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,920
Oh, I hate, I mean, I hate to 
say it if someone's like all 

620
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,560
upset at me for saying that, but
I feel like the Catholic Mass is

621
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,480
perfect. 
I feel like the way that the 

622
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,440
Catholics do it is so flawless 
in so many ways that I'm just 

623
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,560
like, man, like I've been 
missing out and I had no idea 

624
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,960
how much I was missing out on. 
I think what you've been saying 

625
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,680
this whole time is so important 
because I think a lot of people 

626
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,000
that are listening to this, 
whether you're listening on the 

627
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,240
podcast or you're watching it on
YouTube, many of these many 

628
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,320
followers that follow this 
channel have converted either to

629
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,960
Anglican or Orthodox. 
We have a large variety, but 

630
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,200
something usually Apostolic. 
One of the things that you keep 

631
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,360
mentioning that that I think a 
lot of people can relate with is

632
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,080
an emptiness or a lack of 
fullness in something, not that,

633
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,160
that service or that worship 
service or that sermon was bad 

634
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,160
or heretical or evil. 
And, and, and this is a big part

635
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,440
of most people's testimony 
because there's that one point 

636
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,520
of crisis where you are just 
completely lost within yourself.

637
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,320
And I remember that moment for 
me in the second church I was 

638
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:09,320
pastoring. 
I was telling you I was 

639
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,720
pastoring 2 Baptist churches. 
We had the highest attended 

640
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,720
Sunday in that church in 10 
years. 

641
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,080
We were growing and I remember 
staring out the window and my 

642
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,360
wife at the time was just 
looking at me and she's like, 

643
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,720
are we leaving? 
And I was like, I I'm just just 

644
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,760
thinking she's like, you look 
absolutely miserable. 

645
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,880
I said I am, I am. 
I'm not happy. 

646
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,720
I am completely discontent. 
And it's like, I mean, I looked 

647
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,800
like it was a freak. 
It's like we just had the best 

648
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,320
Sunday in 10 years for this 
church. 

649
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,160
Like what do you mean? 
Something was constantly 

650
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,400
calling. 
I didn't know what it was and 

651
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,840
until I went to, as David said, 
until I went to the sanctuary, 

652
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,360
Lord, then I understood 
something. 

653
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,240
Not necessarily the evil would 
fall, but that there was 

654
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,360
something in my life that was 
was leaving me hungry enough to 

655
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,240
look somewhere else. 
Yeah, he's almost like an ache, 

656
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,800
like this ache or this just like
restlessness that you're like. 

657
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,680
What is that? 
I don't know what that is, but 

658
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,239
there's. 
Enough crumbs, but. 

659
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,400
There's yeah. 
There to keep me moving. 

660
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,639
It's like, well there's a food 
trail somewhere over here. 

661
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:15,159
Maybe it's here. 
Well, it's not here. 

662
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,360
Maybe it's here. 
And eventually the banquet feast

663
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:19,960
was prepared. 
Correct. 

664
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,760
And that's such a crazy thing 
because I think that sometimes 

665
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,719
people look at that as like, you
don't have enough faith then 

666
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,800
like where is your faith? 
Like if you have questions like 

667
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,400
where is your faith? 
I mean, you have seen, and I 

668
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,639
have, I've seen the move of God 
so many times in my life and 

669
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,040
many mission trips and many 
church services and I've seen 

670
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:44,000
people's lives transformed in, 
in, in evangelical churches. 

671
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,960
I have. 
And so to even ask those 

672
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,639
questions is so offensive to 
people to the point to where 

673
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,639
they're just like, I think the 
enemy's like, you know, doing 

674
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:56,560
something here. 
He's trying to confuse you or 

675
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,480
he's trying to, and I'm just 
like, no, that's actually not 

676
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,160
it. 
I'm actually really wanted to 

677
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,360
know what the bottom line truth 
is because I'm noticing that 

678
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,880
there's some things that I, I 
feel like I'm getting, you know,

679
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,440
McDonald's when I could be 
getting meat and potatoes. 

680
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,080
And where is that? 
So what, what is the oldest, 

681
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,560
most ancient, true form of 
Christianity? 

682
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,480
Then let's go back to the very 
beginning. 

683
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,200
And going back to the beginning 
is exactly what I did. 

684
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,320
And once I did that, I realized,
huh, that's, that's exactly what

685
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,960
the Lord was leading me to do. 
Because this, this American 

686
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:37,000
Western way of doing things for 
me, it ain't it, it ain't it 

687
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,880
anymore. 
I can't, I can't go back. 

688
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,120
I can't, I can't go back. 
I mean, now I even told my 

689
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,680
husband I was like, yeah, 
there's no, I know too much now.

690
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,000
Now that I know what I know, I 
can't go back to what I didn't 

691
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,080
know. 
That's that. 

692
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,320
That would never satisfy me. 
I'd be depressed. 

693
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,200
And it's kind of like with the 
writer of Hebrews just warning 

694
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,680
his audience who are thinking 
about going back to Judaism. 

695
00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:00,640
They had already tasted the 
heavenly call in experienced the

696
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,800
power of the ages to come. 
They were enlightened by baptism

697
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,360
to go back to a lesser system. 
And I'm not saying that as it I 

698
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:09,920
mean my family still Protestant.
I'm not saying y'all a lesser. 

699
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,480
Christian to. 
Go back to a system that is not 

700
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:19,400
the fullness is is is a worse 
apostasy in my mind than going 

701
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,480
back to to, to just become an 
atheist or something. 

702
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,280
I would struggle with that 
because I'm going back to 

703
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,680
something that I know kept me 
hungry, something that kept me 

704
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,160
incomplete and miserable at 
times even though I had great 

705
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:33,760
friendships, great 
relationships. 

706
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,000
Yes, like you said, missions 
trips, the Lord helping church 

707
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,760
plans, seeing people saved and 
baptized. 

708
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,120
The Catholic Church even teaches
in Vatican 2's documents very 

709
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,400
clearly that salvation is 
outside of the church and vowed 

710
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,680
autisms are happening. 
But the fullness of Christianity

711
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,640
can only be found within Christ 
Church. 

712
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,520
And that's something you're 
experiencing and and you're 

713
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,240
you're really close to being 
able to participate fully in 

714
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,520
that. 
And it never gets old. 

715
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,640
And, and I remember somebody 
saying, you know, you do that 

716
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,680
over and over again, eventually 
just become so ritualistic. 

717
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,280
And then you. 
Lose this meaning I have yet. 

718
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:16,560
That's the opposite feeling the.
Wonder of it all like. 

719
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,320
Yes, it's like going it. 
I I think I told this to Addie 

720
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:21,640
who she's with voices of 
conversion. 

721
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:26,200
But it's almost like you enter 
this cave and in this cave is 

722
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,520
like tons and tons of boxes of 
treasure. 

723
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,000
And there's so much treasure in 
this cave. 

724
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,080
And you're just like, I found a 
cave of treasure. 

725
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,640
But then you have all these, 
these caskets and these, these 

726
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,000
openings of, of treasure. 
And you just open one. 

727
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,400
You realize, Oh my gosh, look at
all this. 

728
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,560
There's pearls, there's rubies, 
all this, wow, that's amazing. 

729
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,360
But then you look over to your 
right and there's another big 

730
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,000
old treasure box and you open 
that one. 

731
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,680
You're like, I didn't know that 
that was there too. 

732
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,800
That is how I feel. 
I feel like I'm discovering new 

733
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,200
treasure all the time. 
And as I was listening to the 

734
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,240
catechism, I think that's also 
what made me feel so comfortable

735
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:03,000
to ask these questions. 
And for this because of what you

736
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,080
said, because they talk about 
how, hey, if you have friends 

737
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,320
and family that are Protestant 
and if they are well meaning and

738
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,600
if their heart is right with the
Lord, and I mean, they're, 

739
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,720
they'll still go to heaven. 
If, if once God does all his 

740
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:15,320
judging ultimately is up to the 
Lord. 

741
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:19,040
But it made me feel like, OK, 
like it's not like I would be 

742
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,640
interested in something or 
asking questions about something

743
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,240
that condemns every single 
person, every single Christian 

744
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:26,720
that I've ever known that I know
is precious. 

745
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:28,800
It's not like they're saying 
they're all going to hell. 

746
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,880
I could never ever even consider
something like that. 

747
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:35,680
So that's really made me feel 
better to continue to ask these 

748
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,480
questions about Catholicism 
because I knew like there's some

749
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,840
people that I grew up with that 
helped raise me that we're not 

750
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,960
Catholic. 
And I know that they're in 

751
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,040
heaven. 
I know it because of the fruit 

752
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,680
of their lives and the wonder 
wonderful things that they did 

753
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,240
and the faith that I saw in 
their whole, in their whole 

754
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:58,720
entire, my whole entire life. 
So that did make me feel better.

755
00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:00,200
But it is. 
It's like you're just opening up

756
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,840
all these new treasures that you
did not know existed. 

757
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:08,280
So tell me about your experience
with important things like 

758
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:12,760
intercession of the Saints, 
icons under every altar. 

759
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,440
There are relics of the bones of
a St. in every single Catholic 

760
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,320
Church. 
How did that make you feel going

761
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,040
all right, they're offering a 
mass on an altar and there's 

762
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:27,480
somebody's thousand year old, 
1500 year old bones under that 

763
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:28,880
altar. 
I can't see them. 

764
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,040
Of course, a lot of Times Now 
you can, but there's somebody's 

765
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,920
piece of elbow or finger under 
that, that altar right there. 

766
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:42,520
And there's an icon over here. 
There's an image of Mary and 

767
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:43,800
Joseph and all these other 
things. 

768
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,000
How did how did you do with that
or how are you doing with that? 

769
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,720
Your husband as well? 
Is that a jolt? 

770
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:54,640
Was that a shock? 
I think it was at first, because

771
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,200
again, we've been told for our 
whole life, it's demonic. 

772
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,600
It's, it's just demonic. 
It's not right. 

773
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,960
That's not, you know, that 
doesn't line up with God's word 

774
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,440
and all this stuff, but it's 
necromancy. 

775
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,400
They're praying to the dead. 
They're ushering in dead things.

776
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,200
And I've been all, I've been 
told all those things, but the 

777
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,000
very all the things that I had 
questions about, that I had 

778
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,320
concerns about or that would 
make me feel unsettled. 

779
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,800
I I just chalked it up to I, I 
probably just don't understand. 

780
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,840
So let me just try to 
understand. 

781
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,840
So that's where this whole 8th 
month, May 8 month journey came 

782
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,440
in with the reading. 
Like I have probably read, I 

783
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,880
don't know, like 22 books at 
this point that explain things 

784
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:40,000
that I always were told were 
wrong and heretical. 

785
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,800
And anything that I was ever 
questioning, I would find a book

786
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,920
about it and I would read it and
be like, oh, of course that 

787
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,040
makes sense. 
Like, of course the Bible talks 

788
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,160
about, you know, dry bones 
coming alive and, you know, 

789
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,240
people walking by Peter's coat 
and getting healed or whatever 

790
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:56,680
it was. 
I mean, all all these things 

791
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,600
that they're, they're literally 
written in Scripture. 

792
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,400
These are not weird woo woo 
things, you know. 

793
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,760
Yeah, it's a good point. 
I, I always took people to 

794
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,800
Elisha's bones, where the man 
fell on his bones and bounced 

795
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,320
our back and resurrected or, or 
like you said, Paul's 

796
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,840
handkerchief over here, Peter's 
shadow or something. 

797
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,480
It's an incredible thing too, 
you know, when you look at the 

798
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,640
imagery of this one, we know in 
the catacombs when the church 

799
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,200
was being in secret, they were 
doing masses over the tombs of 

800
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,400
martyrs. 
And even in the Book of 

801
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,440
Revelation, when John saw the 
martyrs in the vision, he saw 

802
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,880
the souls of those that were 
martyred crying out how long, 

803
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,720
how long until basically justice
would be done for their 

804
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:40,600
martyrdoms. 
Well, where, where were those 

805
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,720
souls? 
They were under the altar. 

806
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:47,280
And so there's, there's biblical
vision of this. 

807
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,680
There's historical vision of 
this. 

808
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,440
I mean, my goodness, when they 
were killing Christians, they 

809
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,320
had to start burning their bones
because Christians were starting

810
00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:00,600
to kiss the bones of martyrs 
very, very early on in our our 

811
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,200
tradition. 
And so I think if you open your 

812
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:08,040
mind to these things, you know, 
somebody told me when I was 

813
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,560
fighting this, I'm like, yeah, 
this sounds like necromancy. 

814
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,760
These people are dead. 
And and I'll never forget what 

815
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,040
one of the priests said to me. 
He said. 

816
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,640
But Jesus spoke very clearly on 
those that are his that are 

817
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,600
dead. 
God is not the God of the dead, 

818
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,680
He's the God. 
Of the living and. 

819
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:28,280
So he said that the Saints are 
more fully alive than you and I.

820
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,440
Are today. 
They are closer to the beatific 

821
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:36,040
vision and and when you look at 
it that way, we have the great 

822
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,440
cloud of witnesses, as Huber 
said. 

823
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,000
And we're not in this alone. 
We we have people on our side 

824
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,800
who have already run the race, 
who have gone before us and 

825
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,840
they're praying for us in the 
same way your husband prays for 

826
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,440
you or you pray. 
For your children, yes. 

827
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,080
Yes, that all makes. 
Sense to me, yeah. 

828
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,840
Yeah, they made that made sense 
to me. 

829
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,480
And in fact, I at the end of 
Rome Sweet Home, I think I, I 

830
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,640
read that Rome Sweet Home book 
by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. 

831
00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:05,240
Love it. 
We're even doing a book club 

832
00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:06,880
about it because I was like, I'm
obsessed. 

833
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:09,640
This really helped me a ton. 
But at the very end of the book 

834
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,120
it talks about that where it's 
just God designed it so 

835
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,800
beautifully, where it's like you
now have a full and complete 

836
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,080
family, a family of believers 
here on earth and a family of 

837
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,680
believers in heaven. 
And the veil between heaven and 

838
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,960
earth is very, very thin. 
And so it in a way that was very

839
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:34,240
easy for me to to reconcile and 
to understand pretty quickly. 

840
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,240
I think the hardest thing for a 
while was the Mary stuff because

841
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,040
again, we were always a married,
she takes away from Jesus and 

842
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:43,720
they worship Mary and all that 
stuff. 

843
00:43:43,720 --> 00:43:47,760
So that was probably my last 
hurdle that I had to really 

844
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,440
overcome. 
So I did read Brent Petrie's 

845
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,800
book Jesus, yes, Jesus in the 
Jewish Roots of Mary. 

846
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:58,080
Also Hail Holy Queen by Scott 
Hahn, Behold your mother. 

847
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,080
So I did read all of those 
books. 

848
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,880
And I think what the hardest 
thing for me was was the newness

849
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,200
of the dogma. 
So the dogma being, you know, 

850
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:13,120
something that's relatively new 
and not as discussed before, but

851
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:15,960
it's what's interesting about 
all of that in the church coming

852
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,920
back and, you know, confirming 
these things is, you know, for 

853
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,280
for a majority of the time, you 
have your written tradition and 

854
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,040
you have your oral tradition. 
So orally and traditionally, 

855
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,560
people genuinely believed that 
Mary was assumed into heaven and

856
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,200
that it actually happened and 
that she was sinless. 

857
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,840
So all those things were 
definitely something that I had 

858
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,400
to start to really learn a 
little bit more. 

859
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:39,720
I'm still learning, man. 
Like, I'm still trying to 

860
00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:41,040
uncover all this stuff. 
Yeah. 

861
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,720
So Mary was a tough one for 
Claire. 

862
00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:44,760
She. 
Was it? 

863
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,720
She told me, Oh, yeah, we were 
actually in line to vote for the

864
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:51,000
president financial election, 
the last presidential election. 

865
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,960
And we probably had the biggest 
fights in our entire marriage on

866
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:58,000
Mary. 
And And it turned and I all I 

867
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,640
said was like, babe, I think you
should be open minded to this. 

868
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,200
I'm not saying you should. 
You believe it. 

869
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,800
And it turned into this 
argument. 

870
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,480
And then we just kind of stopped
talking about it. 

871
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:08,880
She went straight to studying 
it. 

872
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,280
I come home one day and I'm 
looking and she started making 

873
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,880
this like prayer section in the 
house and she was hanging an 

874
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:23,640
image of of Mary and and another
image with Hail Mary, the Hail 

875
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,360
Mary on it. 
And I'm like, where's my wife? 

876
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,240
What have you done with my wife?
Like what is this like I and she

877
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:32,080
actually moved quicker than. 
Me. 

878
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:34,800
Really. 
By the end of it, she she was 

879
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,200
ready to go. 
I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. 

880
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:37,680
I'm still trying to figure out, 
like, should we leave? 

881
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:40,760
I'm still working on these 
things. 

882
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:45,040
Right. 
The Blessed Mother is a very 

883
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:50,160
controversial topic and what I 
find is is that most people have

884
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:55,880
a very high ignorance of that's 
right, the church is actually 

885
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,400
teaching about her, especially 
in relation to some of these 

886
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,200
doctrines. 
What's interesting is you talk 

887
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,840
about say whether it's Pius, its
wealth doing the dogma, the the 

888
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:11,760
Mary of some men. 
What's unique is that even 

889
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:17,040
though it was in the 1950s have 
early, early texts both in the 

890
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,400
East and the West of Mary's 
assumption. 

891
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,880
Even the Orthodox believed that.
Of course it's married to a 

892
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,160
mission, but even the Orthodox 
believed she died and she was 

893
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,240
bodily stood. 
Right. 

894
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:29,560
Yes. 
Self. 

895
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,360
Believed. 
Yes, I know. 

896
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,040
I think that helped me because 
really? 

897
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,200
Oh yeah, the fact that like 
Luther himself believed all 

898
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:38,680
that. 
Again, Not that I was even a 

899
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,600
Luther fan, but I mean, the 
whole reason that we're in this 

900
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,040
mess is because of Luther. 
And so for me to, you know, tell

901
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,320
my, my Protestant friends and 
family, like y'all realize that 

902
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,680
we're here in this portion of 
the timeline as Western 

903
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:53,360
Americans because of Martin 
Luther, what he did the 1500s, 

904
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,320
but did you realize that he 
believed in all the Mary stuff, 

905
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,840
all of it, literally every 
single one of it. 

906
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,920
So when was it that we just 
started pulling these things 

907
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,600
away from Christian tradition, 
pulling the Mary stuff away from

908
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,360
Christian tradition, pulling the
real presence of the Eucharist 

909
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,800
away from Christian tradition? 
I'm like, man, we've, we've been

910
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,680
just picking these things apart 
and now we're just left with 

911
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:16,960
just like crumbs. 
I don't like that. 

912
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,800
I, I, I don't want that. 
I that doesn't satisfy me. 

913
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,720
And I think that's a big part of
the discussion is because in 

914
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:27,000
many ways we're a product of the
radical Reformation, not the 

915
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,000
actual Maastrio Protestants. 
And he was Miles Christian. 

916
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,600
He's actually a Presbyterian. 
He and I did a channel 

917
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,880
discussion together. 
It's been about six months now. 

918
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,920
We actually demonstrated that 
the magisterial reformers, many 

919
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,400
of them, the earliest 
confessions, believed in what 

920
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,440
are now all of the Marian 
dogmas. 

921
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,560
They believe she was a 
Theotokos. 

922
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,800
They believe that she was 
immaculately consumed. 

923
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,520
They believe that she was a 
perpetual Virginian, her 

924
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:55,840
perpetual Virginia. 
They believe that she was bodily

925
00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:59,760
people, that you'd be like what?
They were fully reformed. 

926
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,040
They were part of Geneva or they
were part of Dwangly. 

927
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,160
I mean, even Dwingley's 
successors affirm some of the 

928
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:05,680
Marian. 
Dogas. 

929
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:11,000
So it was astonishing to me to 
says like, so really to deny it 

930
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,320
is not necessarily a reformed 
idea. 

931
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:14,840
It's a radical. 
Reformation idea. 

932
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,800
So the the church held this long
before it was dogmatized. 

933
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,840
And something that's very 
helpful is when the church 

934
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,320
typically dogmatizes something, 
it's not because they're 

935
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,000
creating it for the first time, 
it's because something 

936
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:28,520
controversial. 
Challenges for. 

937
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,840
The first time. 
They're trying to clarify like, 

938
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,800
hey, this is what we believe for
2000 years and that's why these 

939
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,720
councils come to get it. 
That's, that's what I'm learning

940
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:38,320
is like they had these 
ecumenical discussions about 

941
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,000
these things and then they, they
put it on paper so that it's 

942
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,040
very clear. 
And I think that's what makes me

943
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,240
feel so safe about Catholicism 
is because these things are 

944
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:49,240
preserved and they're not 
changed. 

945
00:48:49,240 --> 00:48:52,520
And it's not new. 
And I just see lots of changing 

946
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,600
in newness happening all the 
time. 

947
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,360
I mean, even now, like in, in 
the charismatic circles that I'm

948
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,800
in here, here in the United 
States, I mean, it's it is 

949
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,880
changing constantly with their 
views on things that are really 

950
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:08,960
making me feel unsettled with, 
you know, things with the 

951
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,880
president or things with just, 
you know, countries overseas. 

952
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:16,160
It just makes me just, it just 
seems so different than what we 

953
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,720
originally did before. 
It's just like constantly 

954
00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:20,160
evolving. 
And I'm like, I just want the 

955
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,920
oldest, OK, Like I, I want the, 
I mean, the closest to 33 AD 

956
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,560
that I can get. 
That is how I want to worship 

957
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,160
Jesus. 
And again, everyone's different.

958
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,760
Everyone's got different 
flavors, but I just feel like 

959
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,800
that would make me feel the 
safest in the arms of Jesus is 

960
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:38,760
to get to the closest and the 
most ancient form of 

961
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,000
Christianity that that I can 
possibly get. 

962
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,480
This was never something that I 
really thought that I would 

963
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,160
want. 
And it's honestly not. 

964
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,400
It's not questions that 
everybody has. 

965
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,760
And I've had to come to grips 
with that in the loneliness of 

966
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,720
it because not everybody has 
these questions. 

967
00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:58,160
Not everybody wants to get as 
close to 3380 as possible in the

968
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,440
way that they worship Jesus. 
And that's OK, but you have to 

969
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:07,160
be willing to be to sit in the 
tension of the loneliness 

970
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:09,840
because there's so much fruit 
that has come from it. 

971
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,960
I tell you what, I can't even 
describe it. 

972
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,240
The fruit that has come out in 
my own life, the things that I 

973
00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:17,960
don't want to do anymore, the 
thinking that I don't want to 

974
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,360
think anymore. 
It's just it's amazing that I'm 

975
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,200
seeing this transformation 
happen within my own personal 

976
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:27,120
life and how that is translating
into my home, into my marriage, 

977
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:29,200
into my relationship with my 
kids, my relationship with my 

978
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:33,520
family, strained relationships 
with my any anyone in my close 

979
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,000
family. 
Now it's like healed. 

980
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:38,080
It's it's crazy, crazy. 
I just didn't expect that. 

981
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:41,520
And so I'm like, that has to be 
Jesus. 

982
00:50:41,720 --> 00:50:45,280
That has to be the Lord. 
He would God is 1 not a, not a 

983
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,440
God of division. 
So there can't be 40,000 plus 

984
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,040
truths. 
I mean, there's no way that he 

985
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,440
would have set it up that way. 
He had to set it up in one 

986
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,920
specific way and I'm just 
finding it here and so it's just

987
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:00,360
a huge process and a huge 
journey that I've been on 

988
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,880
recently. 
Yeah, it's it's a big deal. 

989
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:08,280
Like you said, it'll impact you 
what's happening in that Mass as

990
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,280
opposed to, and I grew up around
the revival crusades and things 

991
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:15,240
like that. 
It's like go down and make a 

992
00:51:15,240 --> 00:51:18,400
decision at some altar, Like 
come to the altar, you know, 

993
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,240
come down, make a Just as I am 
song over and over. 

994
00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:25,400
Again. 
And it's like you're inviting 

995
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,160
people to an altar, but an altar
insinuates the sacrifices. 

996
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:33,520
Happen, I know, yes and yes and.
It is such an opposite concept 

997
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,400
because we have been programmed,
you and I as Protestants at that

998
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:43,560
time, to go to an altar to give 
something to God, like I'm 

999
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,800
surrendering this or I'm 
surrendering that. 

1000
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,680
But when we come to the Mass, 
there's an actual sacrifice and 

1001
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,760
it's not something we're not 
coming to give something to God.

1002
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:57,040
We're coming to to God saying I 
have nothing to give. 

1003
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,160
I need you and he by grace 
because it's a grace. 

1004
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:04,120
It's an act of grace. 
Sacrament is giving us himself. 

1005
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,280
What a difference between I'm 
going to an altar. 

1006
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,000
There's no sacrifice to give to 
God. 

1007
00:52:11,240 --> 00:52:14,480
Right, whereas what's 
interesting that you say it like

1008
00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:15,760
that. 
Yeah. 

1009
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:20,840
But what's funny is I feel like 
with my experience, it was 

1010
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:23,000
always the question after church
was always like, what did you 

1011
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,440
get out of the service? 
What did how did you feel it was

1012
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:32,640
it there was a high importance 
on receiving something for 

1013
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,200
yourself and how it spoke to 
you, what God could do for you, 

1014
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,480
how Jesus could move on your 
heart and in your how he could 

1015
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,200
heal you. 
It was it was more in my 

1016
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,920
experience about what we could 
get in the moment. 

1017
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:49,680
And also we would associate the 
move of the Holy Spirit with a 

1018
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:53,320
lot of emotionalism. 
So if you felt an emotion in the

1019
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,440
worship song, if you felt an 
emotion whenever the pastor 

1020
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,520
would get real loud and then 
he'd get quiet and then you'd 

1021
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,800
feel an emotion, then that was 
the Holy Spirit. 

1022
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:05,160
Not to say that it wasn't, but 
I'm starting to come to a place 

1023
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,240
where I'm like, OK, let's 
decipher what's the Holy Spirit 

1024
00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,200
and what's emotionalism. 
And I think that that can be a 

1025
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:14,200
very dangerous line to walk, 
especially in the charismatic 

1026
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,720
circles that I was in. 
Because you can say a whole lot 

1027
00:53:16,720 --> 00:53:20,680
of thus say at the Lords, when 
in fact, the Lord didn't say 

1028
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:22,800
that that was just your emotion.
It was just because you ate 

1029
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:24,280
pizza that night. 
And that's why you had that 

1030
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:25,440
dream. 
It's that, you know, it's just 

1031
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,280
so it's, it's just I have a book
come to a place where I'm like, 

1032
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,440
I fear the Lord too much to be 
able to just have the authority 

1033
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,680
to just blast say that's God if 
it actually wasn't. 

1034
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,720
And so deciphering the two 
between emotionalism and the 

1035
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:41,920
Holy Spirit is something that's 
very difficult to do whenever 

1036
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,280
you're in these charismatic 
circles because it's just so 

1037
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,960
normal to to, you know, kind of 
receive it that way. 

1038
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,280
So when I'm at the Mass, so it's
more like all the attention 

1039
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,400
ain't on me. 
It ain't on the worship team, it

1040
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,960
ain't on this charismatic, 
really good preaching, pastor, 

1041
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:03,640
attractive people on the stage. 
That is not where the attention 

1042
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,000
is. 
The attention is solely 100% 

1043
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,920
with the Eucharist. 
I'm looking at the at the 

1044
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,520
crucifix, looking at Jesus. 
That's where the attention is. 

1045
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:15,280
The attention, in my opinion, 
isn't even on the priest. 

1046
00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:18,000
And that's not what you see in 
Western America. 

1047
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:22,720
The attention is on this, you 
know, good looking, well spoken 

1048
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:26,760
pastor and how well he presents 
a message which is technically a

1049
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,160
Ted talk in a lot of ways. 
But the attention isn't, isn't 

1050
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:34,360
on the one who is doing it, it's
on the one who we're all should 

1051
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,280
be doing it for. 
And so that's what we've really 

1052
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,560
appreciated and we've come to 
love because that's ultimately 

1053
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,680
what we should be doing anyways.
And so it's just, again, I'm not

1054
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:45,600
trying to knock anything. 
I really hope that people are 

1055
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,800
listening and not taking my 
words out of context because I 

1056
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,440
genuinely believe that God can 
do anything in the Holy Spirit, 

1057
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:55,240
can move in any sort of circle, 
Christian circle, especially 

1058
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:57,040
with people that love the Lord 
with their whole heart. 

1059
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:01,200
But in my personal opinion, I'm 
like man, like this feels very 

1060
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,360
similar to maybe how the 
apostles did things. 

1061
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,680
And I like it. 
I really like it. 

1062
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:10,680
Yeah, it's a, it's a beautiful 
thing when you think about the 

1063
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,520
moment you're in, you're you're 
in a temporary moment, you're in

1064
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,880
a time and space, but you're 
entering into an eternal. 

1065
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:19,400
Moment at the same. 
Time. 

1066
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,400
It's where it's really where 
heaven and earth meets and cross

1067
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:24,960
into each other. 
It's the. 

1068
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:28,280
Closest we can get. 
If if we sit there and ponder 

1069
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:33,000
that the eternal realm and what 
we're participating in, it's 

1070
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,240
bigger than me. 
You talked about that a second. 

1071
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:36,800
I thought I really appreciate 
you saying that. 

1072
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,920
There's a element of like why? 
I really like that sermon today,

1073
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:42,680
man. 
The worship band did a really 

1074
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:43,640
good job today. 
Or. 

1075
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:50,320
Whatever it is and it becomes 
self focused. 

1076
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,600
Yes, it becomes about the 
performance, yeah. 

1077
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,520
And and I love and This is why I
love that orientum from priests 

1078
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,080
that are facing away and facing 
towards Christ because they're 

1079
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,400
they're mediating our worship 
toward Christ, facing each 

1080
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,680
other. 
And it's just preference on my 

1081
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,080
part. 
I mean, neither is right, wrong 

1082
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,680
or indifferent in the church's 
teaching, but I I do prefer that

1083
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,600
Orient because he's even the 
priest is no longer in the way 

1084
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,440
he he is mediating us in worship
toward God. 

1085
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:22,520
Everything's directed our 
prayers, I believe our worship, 

1086
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,160
our citations of Scripture. 
Everything that we recite, say 

1087
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,760
and believe is is aimed right 
toward Christ himself. 

1088
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,520
And so you, you brought this up 
and I the posturing is 

1089
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,960
different, different from 
anything that you ever seen. 

1090
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:41,160
Protestants, you probably come 
in, you see people genuflecting 

1091
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,240
before they sit. 
Like you said, it's up, down, 

1092
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:47,720
up, down, up, down. 
Like when you're praying you're 

1093
00:56:47,720 --> 00:56:50,320
in a certain position. 
If you're if you're reciting, 

1094
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,520
you're in a certain position. 
How did you do with the 

1095
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:55,840
posturing or, or a lot of the 
genuflecting? 

1096
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,240
And sometimes it's like, was 
that really necessary for the 

1097
00:56:58,240 --> 00:57:00,320
priest to bow right there? 
Was it really necessary for him 

1098
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,200
to genuflect right there? 
What do you think about all the 

1099
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,120
posturing that made that played 
a part into the Mass as well? 

1100
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:08,320
Yeah, I didn't. 
It did not bother me at all 

1101
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,720
because in a way I, I think I 
would think about that, like how

1102
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:14,440
often do I really get on my 
knees to pray? 

1103
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:19,040
Like how often, honestly, like 
do I really in my quiet time, 

1104
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:22,520
just get on my knees? 
There's a lot of people that do 

1105
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,640
they, they, they have prayer 
mats and they like lay down and 

1106
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,720
they get on their knees. 
But personally, I really never, 

1107
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:33,040
never really did that as much. 
And so I appreciated a space 

1108
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:36,320
where I could, where I could get
on my knees and I could humble 

1109
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:41,160
myself in ways that I just 
simply wasn't used to. 

1110
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,280
And it was beautiful for me. 
All the other stuff, it really 

1111
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:45,800
didn't bother me. 
And I think it just did. 

1112
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,200
It took me back to that first 
time that I ever went to a Mass.

1113
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,960
So in my mind, the back of my 
mind, I was like kind of a 

1114
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:52,800
little bit prepared. 
Like, OK, there's a lot of 

1115
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,280
movement, but it's a good thing 
and it's a good thing. 

1116
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:59,360
And in fact, to me, it's almost 
like seeing the whole body of 

1117
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:05,840
Christ act as one in worship and
doing the same thing at the same

1118
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,440
time. 
There was a unity in that that 

1119
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:12,560
was so powerful and that was so 
beautiful. 

1120
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,200
And it just, it just made it not
as chaotic. 

1121
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:18,600
And I'm like, of course, God 
loves this uniformity. 

1122
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,440
He wants us to be 1. 
He wants us to worship him. 

1123
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,320
You know it, It was just very 
easy for me to get on board with

1124
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,040
that. 
Very, very easy. 

1125
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:31,120
Yeah, I remember thinking 1 
mask, because in fact my family 

1126
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,280
was very Catholic, except for my
parents. 

1127
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,040
They were already out of the 
Catholic world. 

1128
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:41,000
My grandfather, very Italian, 
his family is from Calabria. 

1129
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:45,480
All of them were Catholic. 
And I remember and I've and I 

1130
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,720
just traced my lineage. 
I did. 

1131
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,960
My wife bought me one of those. 
DNA. 

1132
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:54,240
Test things and I I was finding 
family members that were married

1133
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,240
in this Catholic Church in 
Calabria all the. 

1134
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,680
Back. 
In the 12 and I was like wow, I 

1135
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:03,000
I thought all my life that these
Catholic family members were the

1136
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:04,360
weirdos and it. 
Was the. 

1137
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,080
Whole time it was. 
Us, but I. 

1138
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,440
Remember sitting in the Mass, 
just what you just said there, 

1139
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,800
that that oneness, that unity of
the church. 

1140
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,600
We're sitting there in Mass, you
and I and we're all staying the 

1141
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,000
same creed that's been stated 
for 1000. 

1142
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:22,760
We are all praying similar 
prayers. 

1143
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:26,440
There's people that are in 
Africa saying it, just people in

1144
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:30,080
in Europe singing up Germany, 
French, same readings, all these

1145
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,520
things. 
We are participating on earth, 

1146
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,760
every tribe, tongue and nation 
worthy. 

1147
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,840
Agnes Day, Agnes Day, all of us 
are doing this. 

1148
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:44,040
But then also my family who has 
been gone, that I've never met, 

1149
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:48,720
who are buried somewhere in 
Italy 2300 years ago, sat in 

1150
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:53,680
Mass and we're reciting those 
same exact things. 

1151
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,320
And they are in the vision of 
beatific vision of God, still 

1152
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:58,680
participating in the Mass with 
us. 

1153
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,760
We are participating with the 
Church in heaven triumphant and 

1154
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,720
the Church on earth. 
There is never a more unified 

1155
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:07,200
system. 
That's right. 

1156
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,160
That's right. 
Yes, Yes. 

1157
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,160
That's why I think it's so 
perfect in so many ways. 

1158
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:14,760
Like, in fact, we went to dinner
with some friends of ours that 

1159
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,000
live in actually like close to 
Plano, where that Trent Horn 

1160
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,120
conference was. 
And they came all the way over 

1161
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:22,520
here to Fort Worth to have 
dinner with us. 

1162
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:26,000
And they're, they're Catholic. 
And we sat down and were eating 

1163
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,880
dinner and the husband of this 
couple was like talking to me. 

1164
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:32,240
And he was like, hey, what about
that reading that we had on 

1165
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,480
Sunday? 
And of course my husband was 

1166
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,760
like, wait, y'all's Catholic 
parish did what ours did. 

1167
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,760
He's like, yeah, dude, like we 
read the same scriptures and we 

1168
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:42,920
do the same creeds. 
It's it's all the same. 

1169
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:44,280
And that really shocked my 
husband. 

1170
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,240
He had no idea that it was the 
same everywhere. 

1171
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,200
And I'm like, that is that is so
beautiful. 

1172
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,280
And then if you have family and 
friends that live across the 

1173
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:56,800
country, you can get on the 
phone with them and you can talk

1174
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:58,840
about, you know, the scriptures 
that you read. 

1175
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:03,840
It's just, it's just so the 
unity of it is exactly what we 

1176
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:08,320
need as human beings because 
we're so divided and we're so, 

1177
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:12,680
so fragmented and fractured in 
so many ways, whether it's with 

1178
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,680
our belief systems or whether 
it's with politics or whether 

1179
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:17,320
it's with family or whether it's
with friendships. 

1180
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,560
Like we're so just splintered 
all over the place. 

1181
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:25,120
But there is one thing that we 
can have in common in the 

1182
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:29,080
original way that Christ 
intended for us to practice 

1183
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:32,280
Christianity. 
And if anything, if we just all 

1184
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:35,680
got on that same playing field, 
like we would realize we have so

1185
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:38,240
much more in common than than 
what we don't. 

1186
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,120
And I believe that that's 
exactly what Jesus does, and 

1187
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:43,240
that's what Scripture does. 
And that's what the church does,

1188
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:47,120
is just brings unity with people
from every tribe, a nation and 

1189
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,800
tongue. 
One holy, Catholic and Apostolic

1190
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:52,040
Church. 
That's what it is. 

1191
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:57,520
One holy, not 2, not 3. 
That's what unites us is is we 

1192
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:01,560
are connected both in Christ and
the papacy, and that is the 

1193
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:04,240
unifier. 
And what's interesting about 

1194
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:06,560
that too, is one of the 
beautiful things my wife and I 

1195
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:10,160
have enjoyed. 
We're out of town, or we can 

1196
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,200
make it to our parish or. 
Go visit. 

1197
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:13,600
You need to go to. 
Confession. 

1198
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,640
You can go to any Catholic 
Church in the world, and it's 

1199
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,000
your church. 
It's the coolest I know. 

1200
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:23,000
You slip up and commit a mortal 
sin, and there's a Catholic 

1201
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:25,440
parish a mile down the road. 
You go yes. 

1202
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:30,040
If if you are on a day of 
obligation like ordinary 

1203
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,560
members, for example. 
By the way, if you're listening 

1204
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:35,080
to this, there are obligations 
coming up. 

1205
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,680
If you're in the ordinary, that.
Are not yeah Thursday coming up 

1206
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:38,720
Thursday. 
Is coming up. 

1207
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:42,120
You need to be I think all all 
masters should be doing it, but 

1208
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,120
but things like that. 
It's like I the closest ordinary

1209
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:49,240
parish that I I do catechism 
classes for is an hour away. 

1210
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,840
So we often tend to Roman right 
parish here. 

1211
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:57,920
I can't make it to obligation up
there, but I can go to any other

1212
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:02,920
mass 5 miles or on my way to 
work or something and I'm at 

1213
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,320
home. 
Yeah, we went to Las. 

1214
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,720
Oh, yeah. 
We went to Las Vegas in 

1215
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:09,760
December. 
And this was already a couple 

1216
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,440
months in and my husband's a 
musician, so he had, they had a,

1217
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:17,200
a kind of like a stay in Vegas 
where they were playing during 

1218
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:18,840
the rodeo, the National Finals 
Rodeo. 

1219
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:21,880
And so it was a Sunday and I'm 
like, I'm gonna go to mass. 

1220
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:23,520
I'm gonna find a Catholic Church
here. 

1221
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:27,240
And it happened to be this 
really famous Catholic Church in

1222
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,680
Las Vegas. 
And it was like very psychedelic

1223
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:32,240
looking and it was interesting. 
And it was like paintings, like 

1224
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,200
I think I saw a Mark Wahlberg 
video the other day where he was

1225
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:36,960
in front of this church. 
And I was just like, this is 

1226
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,640
fantastic. 
But it was exactly the same. 

1227
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,040
I mean, everything was the same 
from the little parish that they

1228
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:44,400
what we were attending at the 
time. 

1229
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,360
I'm like, I know everything 
that's going on here and I am 

1230
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:51,000
completely across the country. 
This is just super cool. 

1231
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:52,520
Wow. 
Yeah. 

1232
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:54,800
And that, that's the beauty of 
the one church. 

1233
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:58,200
It's one church, just not many. 
It's just a different 

1234
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:00,880
representation of parish for 
that local community. 

1235
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:03,720
So kind of to wrap, wrap this 
up. 

1236
01:04:03,720 --> 01:04:06,400
So these are some of the things 
that you've observed, you enjoy,

1237
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,760
you've gone through the history,
we've kind of walked through the

1238
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,720
Mass a little bit. 
Things that you've observed. 

1239
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:15,120
What are some hesitancies that 
you maybe you're still thinking 

1240
01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:19,280
about or, or things that are 
obstacles that may preventing 

1241
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,560
you in your mind or in this 
journey that you want to work 

1242
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,320
through a little bit more? 
What are some of those things 

1243
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,080
that you think you still have to
work through? 

1244
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:30,240
You know, I don't know if it's 
anything involving doctrine. 

1245
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:34,520
I think doctrine wise I'm like 
this is this is correct. 

1246
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:37,920
That's that is not a hurdle for 
me. 

1247
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:42,000
Obviously, I think that my 
greatest desire would be for our

1248
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,320
whole family to join the 
Catholic Church at the same 

1249
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:45,960
time. 
Don't know if that's going to be

1250
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:49,680
the case, but it wouldn't be a 
big deal if it if it wasn't. 

1251
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:53,720
But I think that that would be 
honestly my my biggest dream 

1252
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,120
with it. 
I know that it happens all the 

1253
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:59,320
time that like a wife will join 
1st and her kids will later her 

1254
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,520
husband would, which that's 
that's totally cool. 

1255
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,760
But I think that that's probably
my biggest thing is like 

1256
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,960
learning the patience behind 
realizing again, that not 

1257
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:12,960
everybody is going to be on my 
level or be is interested as I 

1258
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,720
am and not having a pity party 
about it and whining about it. 

1259
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,120
Where in reality, it's like 
everybody's got their own 

1260
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:21,120
journey. 
So I think that that's probably 

1261
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:24,520
where I'm at is I am sitting in 
this place of being OK with the 

1262
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:28,640
patience of it. 
So being patient in the timing 

1263
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:31,760
with my family, being patient 
with the timing with the parish,

1264
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:33,560
if they think that we need to 
wait, whatever it is. 

1265
01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,080
I mean, we've had multiple 
meetings with our with our 

1266
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,440
priest, but I think that's what 
it is. 

1267
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:41,280
It's like, what's the next step?
So it's like that unknowing of 

1268
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,360
what, you know, the next step is
going to be. 

1269
01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:47,880
And it might not be on my own 
timeline, but I'm actually going

1270
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:51,280
to be perfectly fine with that. 
Like if it takes another year 

1271
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:55,480
and it's Easter Vigil next year,
cool, Totally fine if that's 

1272
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:57,120
what the Lord wants. 
And that's going to be what, 

1273
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:00,400
what what we get. 
And that's totally cool if it if

1274
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,440
it's different, I'm done for 
that too. 

1275
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:07,120
But what I do know is I ache for
the Eucharist. 

1276
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,720
I ache for it. 
I know that I have never 

1277
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:12,800
genuinely had it where I was 
ready to have it, like I had it 

1278
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:17,080
once an accident. 
But the fact that I don't have 

1279
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,280
that, I think it's very sad to 
me and I ache for it. 

1280
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:24,400
And so to be in a place where I 
can fully receive that and fully

1281
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:28,880
receive every single gift and 
every sacrament that Jesus has 

1282
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:30,280
left for me, that that's what I 
want. 

1283
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:35,280
And I want it like, yesterday. 
But I think that that's probably

1284
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,000
the hardest part about all of 
it. 

1285
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,280
And then, you know, yeah, it is 
a little lonely being the only 

1286
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:44,280
one that's asking these 
questions, being the only one 

1287
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:46,880
that's interested in this. 
It can feel that way. 

1288
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:51,040
But what's cool is my husband is
so awesome and my family has 

1289
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,280
been so awesome. 
And even if there are people 

1290
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:57,600
that don't understand, I haven't
really been attacked the way 

1291
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:01,440
that I expected to be attacked 
because I grew up hearing 

1292
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,680
horrible things about Catholics,
people constantly attacking 

1293
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:08,280
Catholics, drilling it into my 
head about these these thought 

1294
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,480
processes. 
So that has been good. 

1295
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:14,200
And with the fact that I do have
a social media following, that 

1296
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:16,480
was such a concern for me. 
Like they're going to come at 

1297
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,120
me, man. 
And there have people that have 

1298
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:23,560
done that, but it's not people 
that know me or know my heart or

1299
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:26,280
no, no. 
And so it's like that's it's OK.

1300
01:07:26,680 --> 01:07:28,960
Like it's fine. 
If it was my husband saying 

1301
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:30,320
these things or my mom, that 
would really hurt. 

1302
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:33,920
But it's not. 
So you know, it's just it is a 

1303
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,800
journey. 
It's crossing that Tiber or 

1304
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:38,400
whatever that Graphics said, 
it's. 

1305
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,200
Just. 
It's a whole journey in itself, 

1306
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,720
but it's been I, I can't go 
back. 

1307
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:46,000
I can't. 
I'm just, I'm so in love with it

1308
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:47,880
and I just can't wait to see 
what the Lord does next. 

1309
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:52,200
Learning to swim the Tiber is a 
is a difficult task because 

1310
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:57,200
there's so many, there's so many
things that come in your path 

1311
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:01,240
and usually there's people and 
like you say, I mean, get used 

1312
01:08:01,240 --> 01:08:03,640
to using the block button. 
It's a wonderful tool. 

1313
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:08,760
You can just block people, but 
there are people that are 

1314
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,520
cheering for you. 
That watch. 

1315
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,200
You that are going to say 
nothing, they're not going to 

1316
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:17,240
affirm you, deny you, but 
they're actually the father 

1317
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:21,560
coming back and silently just 
being one of your likes or one 

1318
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:23,080
of your. 
Views. 

1319
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:25,920
Most of the time there's people 
that are on your side. 

1320
01:08:26,359 --> 01:08:30,120
I never felt more at home with a
group of people I did not know 

1321
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,439
then when I was at the Trent 
Horn conference recently, 

1322
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:33,319
honestly. 
I was. 

1323
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,399
Claire and I were talking about 
it on the on the plane ride. 

1324
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:38,920
It's like these. 
I felt like I was with my 

1325
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,720
people, like I felt like I was 
with them. 

1326
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:45,439
And so there is that belonging 
that comes there. 

1327
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:47,319
But the longing you have is 
good. 

1328
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:51,080
My wife and I, we were 
discerning. 

1329
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:54,600
We had to wait. 
I think it was 13 months before 

1330
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,040
we were able to, and we were 
still Anglo Catholic. 

1331
01:08:57,359 --> 01:09:00,120
So we would occasionally go back
to our Anglo Catholic parish and

1332
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:06,960
participate in the Mass there. 
But at the same time, we also 

1333
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:08,800
knew that we were not in the 
fullness there. 

1334
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:10,920
And most of the time we actually
stopped going to the Anglo 

1335
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:15,319
Catholic parish. 
We constantly ached and ate and 

1336
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:19,240
ate what you're talking about. 
But I'll tell you what, what it 

1337
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:25,399
did is it it created an 
appreciation for the sacredness 

1338
01:09:25,439 --> 01:09:27,600
and the power behind these 
sacraments. 

1339
01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:31,479
Another thing that's going to do
for you is when you are able to 

1340
01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:34,920
participate, you're going to 
remember that ache for a long 

1341
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:37,720
time. 
And, and it there's almost a 

1342
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,880
sense of every Sunday or, or 
when I need to go to confession,

1343
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:45,640
it's it's a privilege, it's an 
opportunity. 

1344
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:47,520
It's like man, Lord, this truly 
is grace. 

1345
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:51,720
I don't deserve this. 
I'm not worthy that you should 

1346
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:53,760
enter my roof and. 
They say the word I. 

1347
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:59,720
Mean this this is it takes a new
meaning for somebody that if 

1348
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:02,560
they were to just jump right in 
and they never got to experience

1349
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,080
that that one but I understand 
and and I'll be praying for you 

1350
01:10:07,080 --> 01:10:08,160
I'll. 
Be. 

1351
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:09,840
Praying for your family because 
I. 

1352
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:13,400
Understand how. 
That goes and we're here for 

1353
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:15,520
you. 
And I think my wife said 

1354
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:17,960
something the other day. 
She's like, well, you know, if 

1355
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:20,920
if the conversation gives, maybe
all four of us can have me, you,

1356
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:22,920
her and her husband can. 
Have a conversation. 

1357
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:25,400
We have kids. 
I mean, I know we're in South 

1358
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:28,560
Carolina, but you know, we, we 
live in 2026. 

1359
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:31,320
We can make this work. 
But, you know, figure it out. 

1360
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:34,240
There are people in your corner.
That's right. 

1361
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:38,760
And there's a lot of people that
have been in your position and 

1362
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,120
the Lord will bring this to 
pass. 

1363
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:44,400
Yes, yes, I believe it. 
Yes, I believe it. 

1364
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,280
I, I have to admit that there 
has been so many people that 

1365
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:49,480
have come out of the woodwork, 
even creators that I've 

1366
01:10:49,480 --> 01:10:53,120
connected with and I'm like, 
they are so precious. 

1367
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:56,640
They are awesome. 
Like I get it whenever they say 

1368
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:01,840
welcome home, like I'm 
understanding what that means 

1369
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:06,600
and how that feels because that 
is exactly what this is. 

1370
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:10,480
This is a home. 
This is the home of Christians 

1371
01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:15,440
around the world, and it's just 
the most beautiful, awesome 

1372
01:11:15,440 --> 01:11:17,360
thing. 
And I'm telling you, I can't 

1373
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:18,880
wait. 
I really can't wait. 

1374
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,440
I'm being patient in the 
meantime. 

1375
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:26,840
You talked about reading Scott 
Hahn quite a bit and when we 

1376
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:30,600
were about to convert, I, I got 
AI got a message from Scott Hahn

1377
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:33,920
and he actually he said the 
words welcome home. 

1378
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:37,000
And it was a play on because 
obviously his book was 

1379
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:42,040
instrumental. 
So for him to give my wife and I

1380
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:43,720
congratulations, welcome. 
Home was. 

1381
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:48,440
Was a big deal because it really
is Rome sweet home and so the 

1382
01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:51,760
title is is well done and 
obviously that book is one of 

1383
01:11:51,760 --> 01:11:55,800
his older books but. 
It I know it's so effective, 

1384
01:11:55,880 --> 01:12:00,040
yes. 
So we will be praying for your 

1385
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:03,200
journey, your husband, your 
children, yes. 

1386
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:07,440
And we're, we're going to be on 
the sidelines cheering and being

1387
01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:10,360
that I, my family's a part of 
the ordinariat. 

1388
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:12,400
We are members through the 
Ordinariat. 

1389
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,680
So cool. 
We'll even more so cheer cheer 

1390
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:18,800
you on in that side of things. 
And if you need anything from 

1391
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,880
us, you have questions or 
comments, we'd love to help you 

1392
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:24,280
in any way we can. 
That's awesome man, thank you so

1393
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:25,440
much. 
Thank you for having me too. 

1394
01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:27,440
This was very awesome and so 
much fun. 

1395
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:32,040
Yeah, absolutely. 
Well, if you are listening, as I

1396
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:36,400
stated, you have a couple of 
jobs to do 1 like and subscribe 

1397
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:39,520
on this channel. 
If you have not yet done that, I

1398
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:40,600
don't know what you're waiting 
for. 

1399
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,320
If you're here, you're here for 
a reason, you saw something you 

1400
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,440
liked, so make sure you hit the 
like and subscribe. 

1401
01:12:46,440 --> 01:12:48,040
We'd love to have you on the 
channel. 

1402
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:50,400
Also, for those that have been 
listening for a long time, we 

1403
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:52,400
have a lot of people that are 
part of the membership now. 

1404
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,360
We have a Discord group. 
We also have people that have 

1405
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,600
been joining our program. 
We're doing side discussions, 

1406
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,600
we're doing funny memes, we're 
doing resource sharing. 

1407
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:03,880
A lot of guys and girls have 
jumped on that. 

1408
01:13:04,120 --> 01:13:06,080
Make sure you hit the join if 
you want to do that. 

1409
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:08,200
And again, here's your second 
requirement. 

1410
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:11,360
After you hit like and subscribe
here, you need to go over to 

1411
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:15,000
Hannah's channel and you need to
go subscribe over there and 

1412
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:19,040
follow her on Instagram and some
of these other things and follow

1413
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:22,840
her journey. 
If anything, be that person to 

1414
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:27,200
be the encourager in the 
comments section and call out 

1415
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:31,320
the idiots that decide to make 
some dumb comment there and say,

1416
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:36,080
you know, defend this family. 
OK, do do what you got to do I I

1417
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:38,000
have a lot of great followers so
if. 

1418
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:41,360
Yeah, it's the best they have no
problem. 

1419
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:42,800
Calling. 
They have no problem calling 

1420
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:43,680
idiots. 
Out they do. 

1421
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:45,800
Calling in the troops, man 
Calling in the troops. 

1422
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:49,160
So make sure you do that guys. 
That'll be really, really good. 

1423
01:13:49,160 --> 01:13:51,240
Hannah. 
Any just give us some last 

1424
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:54,400
things, things you'd like us to 
pray for for and also give us 

1425
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:56,600
some encouragement or where we 
could find any more of your 

1426
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:58,680
stuff. 
And and then we'll call this 

1427
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:00,800
this a good episode and call it 
a night. 

1428
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,680
Yeah, yeah, y'all can definitely
find me on my podcast as well, 

1429
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:06,080
right here on YouTube, Spotify, 
Apple podcast, wherever you 

1430
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:09,680
listen to your favorite podcast,
but it's the Lighten Up podcast 

1431
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:13,280
and so you can find me there. 
I do have my personal Instagram 

1432
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,040
account that's at Hannah Cruz 
dot blog and then I have my 

1433
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,320
podcast Instagram. 
So that's the Lighten Up podcast

1434
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:21,680
on Instagram as well. 
Yeah, I mean, this is this has 

1435
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:24,280
been amazing. 
But I think what's what really 

1436
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:26,920
sticks out to me and if I would 
encourage your audiences all 

1437
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:28,800
growing up, my mom would tell me
before I would get out of 

1438
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:31,400
school, before I would go 
places, she would say go make a 

1439
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:33,120
difference, go make a 
difference. 

1440
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:35,640
And making a difference 
sometimes is scary. 

1441
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:37,520
Sometimes it's going out on a 
limb. 

1442
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:41,120
Sometimes it's different than 
anything that you've ever known.

1443
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:46,480
And but whenever you walk in 
obedience with the Lord, that 

1444
01:14:46,480 --> 01:14:49,360
does make a difference because 
really, ultimately we were only 

1445
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:51,080
alive for this long. 
This is all we have. 

1446
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:52,400
We don't have a whole lot of 
time. 

1447
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:54,280
What are we going to do with 
that time? 

1448
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:58,000
Are we going to sit comfortable 
in our little comfortable spot? 

1449
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:03,720
Or do we want to be brave and 
courageous and step out in faith

1450
01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:06,960
to do something that the Lord 
really wants to do? 

1451
01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:09,880
Whether in your heart and your 
character and your walk with 

1452
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:12,880
him, I encourage you to go make 
a difference. 

1453
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:15,520
And making a difference requires
obedience and requires a whole 

1454
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,920
lot of bravery and courage. 
So don't stay comfortable. 

1455
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:20,720
Being comfortable is not what 
we're called to do. 

1456
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,480
And again, we don't have a whole
lot of time. 

1457
01:15:22,480 --> 01:15:23,840
So what are we going to do with 
this time? 

1458
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:27,680
So thank you for your time and 
for letting me come on and 

1459
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,480
Babble about all this new stuff.
Love it. 

1460
01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:32,440
No, we love it. 
Well said. 

1461
01:15:32,440 --> 01:15:35,440
Very well, well said. 
All right, thanks for joining 

1462
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:36,920
us. 
I'm going to put you backstage 

1463
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:40,520
and we will have all of the 
links that you want in the 

1464
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:42,120
description. 
So if you want to go follow 

1465
01:15:42,120 --> 01:15:44,800
that, you don't have to go 
search it up, just click the 

1466
01:15:44,800 --> 01:15:47,440
links in description. 
That'll help everybody. 

1467
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:51,720
Perfect. 
All right folks, that is all 

1468
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:54,320
that we have time for today. 
I'm so glad you joined this 

1469
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:56,080
episode of FAX. 
If you're listening on the 

1470
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:59,360
podcast, one of your favorite 7 
platforms that is out there, 

1471
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,080
make sure you hit the follow and
leave us a five star. 

1472
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:03,440
A lot of you have done that 
recently. 

1473
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,000
Big, big help. 
Helps in the algorithm on 

1474
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,200
YouTube. 
Again, like subscribe, join, 

1475
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,360
leave a comment if you want to 
contact us. 

1476
01:16:11,360 --> 01:16:13,120
I've received a lot of emails 
recently. 

1477
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:14,760
Many of you are interested in 
converting. 

1478
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:18,600
You're in a similar situation 
like Hannah and her family. 

1479
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,240
I have gotten to many of your 
emails. 

1480
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:22,720
I'm doing my best to stay on 
pace. 

1481
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:26,480
Pat's been helping as well. 
We are willing to have 

1482
01:16:26,480 --> 01:16:28,840
conversations and Zoom calls 
with many of you who are in the 

1483
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:31,720
process of converting. 
We've been able to answer a lot 

1484
01:16:31,720 --> 01:16:34,320
of your questions or just send 
you links to videos you didn't 

1485
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:37,360
know we've already recorded, or 
audios that we've already done, 

1486
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:39,600
or channels I've been on. 
I've been on so many channels 

1487
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:42,880
this year talking about many of 
the very things some of you have

1488
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:46,640
questions for. 
Make sure you hit us up on 

1489
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:49,720
social media if you want to, or 
you can e-mail us at 

1490
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:55,080
contact@thefaxpodcast.com. 
That'll also be in the 

1491
01:16:55,080 --> 01:16:57,840
description if you need anything
from us. 

1492
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:00,200
Pat and I will do our best. 
We're very busy, we have 

1493
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:03,240
families, but we'll do our very,
very best to reach back out to 

1494
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:05,200
you and at least point you in 
the right direction. 

1495
01:17:05,440 --> 01:17:08,000
We want to help everybody in 
their journey of faith. 

1496
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:10,760
As always, folks, grace and 
peace to you. 

1497
01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:11,720
God bless.