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Just because it's comedogenic 
does not necessarily mean it's 

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going to lead to acne. 
Today we're going to talk a 

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little bit about some of the 
differences between 

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comedogenicity and what was the 
other one? 

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I don't even know yet. 
Comedogenic versus acnogenic, 

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yeah. 
We're going to cover that. 

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Sadie's going to tell me what 
that even means. 

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I am going to do that today. 
We're just going to discuss a 

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little bit more about our 
opinions on this is Formulation 

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Chemist and why we, although we 
might be biased, think formulas 

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are pretty important. 
So let's start off with the term

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non comedogenic because a lot of
companies are using this term 

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and. 
Dare we say it, how are they 

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using it, Sadie? 
I say they're in a little loosey

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goosey. 
Keep your geese. 

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In line. 
Seriously. 

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Hi, everybody. 
Welcome back to another. 

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Week, guys, it's been so long 
since we last chatted. 

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It has. 
Been and I'm so excited to dive 

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right back into these pores. 
Me too, but before we get 

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started, I'm Sadie. 
And I'm Natalie. 

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And we're cosmetic chemist, and 
we're here to give science a hot

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new makeover. 
On this podcast called Beauty by

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the Beaker. 
Which while we have you, please 

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like subscribe, share with a 
friend. 

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Yeah. 
Comments. 

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As you may have heard, we're 
running out of space to record 

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episodes and in order to keep 
this podcast going, we need to 

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make a little cash once. 
The hard drive runs out of 

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space. 
We have to stop. 

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We have to be done. 
There are going to be people out

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there who are like, thank God. 
Like how many terabytes do we 

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have left? 
It's dire to. 

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Do a countdown on your Instagram
well. 

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We're down to the last 50 gigs 
probably. 

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So uh oh guys, send your support
quick. 

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We need a new hard drive. 
Well, I am so excited to be back

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for another week. 
Me too. 

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Excited to hear more about our 
non comedogenic stuff. 

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Yes. 
So last week we talked about 

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where the term non comedogenic 
came from. 

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We went over a little study that
was kind of crazy and discussed 

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sort of our thoughts on the 
whole non comedogenic thing. 

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If you haven't listened to Part 
1, go listen to that because 

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this part might not make that 
much sense. 

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But if you've already listened, 
we're here in Part 2. 

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The way I said that. 
Crazy disjointed. 

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If you haven't listened to Part 
1, you might want to listen to 

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that so that you know what we're
talking about. 

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Yeah, where the whole idea of 
comedogenicity even comes from. 

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We covered all of that last 
week, so if you haven't yet, go 

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check that episode out. 
But today we're going to 

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continue that discussion. 
We're going to talk a little bit

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about some of the differences 
between comedogenicity and what 

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was the other one I don't even 
know yet, Achnogenicity. 

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Oh, yeah, yes, yes. 
Yep. 

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Comedogenic versus akinogenic. 
Yeah, we're going to cover that.

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Sadie's going to tell me what 
that even means. 

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I am going to do that today. 
And we're just going to discuss 

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a little bit more about our 
opinions on this is Formulation 

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Chemist and why we, although we 
might be biased, think formulas 

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are pretty important. 
Well said. 

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Thank you who didn't go listen 
to last week's episode. 

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Basically non comedogenic is 
just the idea of something that 

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does not clog your pores and 
lead to acne. 

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A lot of companies make claims 
about how their products are non

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comedogenic and how they don't 
use any non comedogenic 

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ingredients. 
They don't use any comedogenic 

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ingredients. 
They don't use any comedogenic 

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ingredients. 
Thank you. 

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They're, like all of our 
formulas, are comedogenic. 

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All of them. 
We use one single ingredient 

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that's not going to clog your 
pores. 

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These things are going to suck 
right in there you. 

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Are going to have acne up the 
wazoo. 

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Consider your pores plugged 
literally. 

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Good luck getting that. 
Out. 

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So let's start off with the 
regulations behind the term non 

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comedogenic because a lot of 
companies are using this term 

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and. 
Dare we say it, how are they 

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using it? 
Titty, I say. 

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They're vanilla, loosey, goosey.
I need a shirt. 

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I need a merch. 
Shirt Lucy Goosey. 

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Yeah, maybe. 
It's your yard, Goose. 

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And we named her. 
Lucy so good. 

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That is Lucy Goose. 
Oh. 

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My God, she's. 
Her newbie experience. 

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We'll insert a picture of Lucy 
Goosey. 

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Yeah, so good. 
We should bring her in. 

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We should. 
We'll put her right here. 

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Yeah. 
She doesn't belong in the lawn. 

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She belongs. 
In the salon. 

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Yeah, our salon. 
Goose. 

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Lucy Goose. 
All right. 

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Oh. 
My God. 

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OK, Lucy's. 
Coming for the next. 

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Episode. 
Yeah, Consider it done, yes. 

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Seriously, that was incredible. 
You guys just got to witness her

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idea making process. 
Yeah, this is. 

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How the magic happens? 
It does this is. 

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BXP behind the scenes. 
BX behind the scenes BXBTS OK, 

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Oh my God, now it's time to talk
about regulatory. 

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I'm getting crazy. 
So in the United States, the 

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FDA, which is the regulatory 
body over cosmetics, that's the 

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Food and Drug Administration and
the FTC don't require any pre 

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market sign up for cosmetics. 
So if you just have a cosmetic 

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product, you don't have to go 
through the FDA in order to put 

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it on the shelves, unless it's a
drug an or an OTC, in which case

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they'll set different 
requirements. 

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That's all we're talking about. 
The FDA, however, does require 

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that all labels must be truthful
and not misleading. 

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And anything that crosses into 
disease treatment turns the 

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product into a drug. 
That would be something that 

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uses the words like cures that 
would have to be regulated as a 

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drug. 
So we have talked about drugs 

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and cosmetics ad nauseam on this
podcast. 

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So I it doesn't even matter but.
If you want to hear more about 

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the old drug versus cosmetic 
conversation, go listen to some 

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of our other episodes. 
We'll link 1 specifically right 

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here. 
Yeah, that we talked in depth 

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about it, but it's a 
conversation. 

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It comes up a lot because it's 
it's common. 

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It's common. 
It's ground that must be tread 

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lightly in cosmetics, yes? 
So in December 2022, there was 

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an act that passed. 
It was called Mokra, and it 

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widened the FDA's access to 
safety files, which basically 

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just says that like if a company
is making claims at any time, 

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the FDA could go to them and say
you need to provide US evidence 

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of these claims, and a company 
has to have evidence to back up 

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everything that they're saying. 
Yeah, which is kind of crazy 

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that that just was passed 
because like, yeah, we already 

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know that like the FDA doesn't 
require pre market approval for 

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these things. 
I am surprised that it's just 

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recently that they essentially 
require post market approval, 

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honestly. 
Yeah. 

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They're like, actually, you do 
have to have evidence, and we 

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can ask for that at any time. 
Yeah. 

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You couldn't do that before. 
Guess not. 

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That's crazy. 
I guess not, but I mean great. 

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I'm glad that that's now written
in stone. 

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Same. 
Yeah, So it doesn't cross over 

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into requiring non comedogenic 
testing, but brands are required

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to keep records that they feel 
substantiate safety. 

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But Mochra doesn't mention 
anything about Comodone counts 

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or rabbit ear asses, right? 
So in the EU, the EU requires 

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adequate and verifiable evidence
for every performance claim. 

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The law doesn't define the study
size, site or cut off that makes

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a product non comedogenic. 
But authorities can ask for 

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whatever like safety data you 
have and the companies can get 

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in really big legal trouble if 
they don't actually have testing

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done that's required. 
So. 

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That's fair, yeah. 
Which I think is great. 

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Like it's a brand. 
If they're making claims about 

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something, they should be able 
to say where they got that 

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information from, yeah, instead 
of just being all loosey goosey 

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about it. 
Yeah. 

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So keep your geese. 
In line. 

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Seriously. 
Basically there aren't any 

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actual legal rules or 
definitions for non comedogenic 

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testing. 
So this means that companies 

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often times will just formulate 
to the standards of online acne 

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checking software and then use 
the marketing term non 

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comedogenic because there isn't 
any sort of legal or regulatory 

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definition for it. 
Right. 

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And although we say like this is
great that these companies are 

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being held accountable, the 
accountability is sometimes not 

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as strong as we would like it to
be. 

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Yeah, and also the FDA is 
probably not going to go after 

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companies that are using the 
term non comedogenic on their 

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packaging like they have bigger 
fish to fry. 

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So yeah, in theory they could 
come after companies for making 

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claims, but. 
But people are injecting 

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themselves with salmon sperm, 
literally. 

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So and peptides now like, yeah, 
they're are bigger issues. 

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The FDA can only do so much. 
They're probably not going after

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small companies that are saying 
their products are non 

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commutagenic and being like, but
do you have the data for that? 

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Yeah, it's just not happening, 
right. 

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But the reason that this is 
frustrating is because a lot of 

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consumers will look for the term
non commutagenic on product 

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labels and putting non 
commutagenic is pretty low risk 

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high reward for companies. 
Right, it's a. 

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Great marketing tool that 
probably isn't going to get them

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right. 
It's like the sulfate free, 

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paraben free. 
Exactly, like they can just kind

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of say it and it's easy. 
However, I will say the FDA does

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crack down on claims 
occasionally. 

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00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,920
Yeah, this is sort of a tangent,
but in 2023, they crack down on 

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a 2 times faster healing claim 
on hydrocolloid bandages from 

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00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,120
Johnson and Johnson. 
Nothing has happened yet in that

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00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,640
case, but they do investigate 
these claims from time to time, 

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00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,200
so. 
They did raise some alarms. 

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They did. 
So your brand, it is definitely 

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00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:20,360
in your best interest to 
formulate correctly, right? 

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00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,440
You know. 
Yeah, that is it. 

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00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:27,120
It seems the theme that we see 
with a lot of brands, efficacy 

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00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,160
with their products and 
marketing. 

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00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:35,280
There's this delicate balance of
formulating good products, 

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00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:40,560
making money, marketing in a way
that makes you stand out, 

200
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,440
avoiding the FDA. 
Exactly. 

201
00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,880
The Four Horsemen product 
development. 

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00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,400
Of the cosmetic apocalypse, 
exactly. 

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00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,720
Non communogenic is kind of just
another example of why these 

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00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,280
buzzwords work so well on 
consumers because they're a 

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00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,240
shortcut to safety in a world 
where most people are pretty 

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00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,640
hyper vigilant about the 
ingredients that they're using. 

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00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,560
I think we're in a time where 
people are really looking at and

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00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:12,640
dissecting product labels and 
companies know this and they 

209
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,000
exploit this. 
So we've talked about the idea 

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00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,280
of clean beauty, and these are 
examples of marketing terms that

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00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,400
don't need to be tested in a 
lab. 

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00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,400
So any company can really put it
on their label and then boom, 

213
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,320
they have a bar that the 
marketing team is really easy to

214
00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,320
clear. 
Well, yeah, I. 

215
00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,680
Mean if something doesn't exist,
it's pretty. 

216
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,320
If there's a standard that is 
not defined, it's much easier to

217
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,200
say that you've hit that 
standard, yeah. 

218
00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,680
Exactly. 
So yeah, my product's clean. 

219
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,800
Yeah, that doesn't mean anything
to me, but it's yeah, clean. 

220
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,480
It's not commanding. 
It doesn't have. 100% petrol 

221
00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,520
atom so it doesn't clog your 
pores. 

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00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,920
It's not. 
Not not comedogenic, right? 

223
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,400
Exactly. 
Well, I'm going to formulate 

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00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,320
products that are 100% 
comedogenic. 

225
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,000
So you can't relate to these 
companies and that's. 

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00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:06,280
You're right, as long as you can
make people afraid that their 

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00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,760
pores are. 
You need to convince people that

228
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:14,080
their pores need to be clogged. 
Yeah, fear unclogged pores. 

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00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,040
They're scary. 
It's scary to what's coming out.

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00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,080
Of those pores. 
You don't even want to know the 

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00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,480
things I've seen. 
So when products are tested for 

232
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:29,200
communogenicity, there's quite a
range of testing and a well done

233
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,240
lab study. 
They would apply the product to 

234
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,320
30 to 50 people and then use a 
randomized double-blind 

235
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,360
protocol. 
But. 30 to 50s, I mean, it's 

236
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:40,880
still pretty low. 
It is still. 

237
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:45,320
Pretty well, but apparently in 
another study I found 10 

238
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,080
subjects is considered large 
when it comes to evaluating 

239
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:50,080
communogenicity in skin care 
Well. 

240
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,880
Yeah. 
So I mean the bar. 

241
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,600
Is low the bar? 
Is low for all cosmetic studies 

242
00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:01,280
yes, 30 to 50 is the population 
of China for cosmetic studies 

243
00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,800
you know like that is that's 
the. 

244
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,320
Goal. 
Yeah, that's. 

245
00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:10,360
The maximum number you could 
possibly get yeah is like 1 

246
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,520
college classroom full. 
Which is crazy. 

247
00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,080
Yeah, usually I think I see 30. 
For some reason I feel like I 

248
00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,920
see 32. 
Yeah, very often. 

249
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,400
But like I. 
Know Netflix did one show that 

250
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,520
was just 100 people, you know 
testing things on 100 people so 

251
00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,280
like Netflix can get up. 
I think it was called. 

252
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,800
It was called like. 
I don't remember what it was 

253
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:33,920
called, but I think. 
Brand just don't want to put 

254
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:35,840
money in, no. 
Because they have to. 

255
00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:38,120
Pay all of the volunteers 
exactly and. 

256
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,760
Most people aren't actually 
looking into what happened. 

257
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,080
As long as you can say, yeah, we
did a test and people saw 

258
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,920
results, People aren't going to 
be looking into how many people 

259
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,400
did you test. 
So it's not advantageous for a 

260
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,440
brand to spend money on doing 
that when we're the only people 

261
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:54,800
that care. 
Literally, I was just. 

262
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,160
Going to say no. 
Literally, people are probably. 

263
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,360
Fast forwarding through the 
sexual of the episode, like I 

264
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:04,280
actually could not care less if 
it's two people or 200 if it's. 

265
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:05,280
Two or three? 
Two. 

266
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,640
Or three. 
It doesn't matter to me. 

267
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,600
Anyway, yeah, 30 to 50 is 
arguably better than two to 

268
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,480
three, so we'll give them that. 
And for cosmetics, it is 

269
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,880
unfortunately a great number. 
Yeah, that gives. 

270
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,360
Us really, really good data 
apparently usually in a well 

271
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,720
done study they would apply it 
to the face or upper back where 

272
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,880
the skin's more likely to break 
out and then it would ideally 

273
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:35,720
last three to four weeks and 
then also rely on applying it 

274
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,760
how you would apply it in real 
life. 

275
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,840
So there are some studies that 
will like, apply it to the skin 

276
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,080
for 48 hours underneath the 
bandage. 

277
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,320
It's like, yeah, well. 
Like a patch test? 

278
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,680
Yeah, like. 
That's not what I'm doing, no. 

279
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,200
I. 
Don't no SO. 

280
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:50,680
I don't know if that's what 
you're doing. 

281
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,240
No, no, I did put Hairspray on 
my face today, but oh. 

282
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,640
Well Hairspray was found to be 
non comedogenic. 

283
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,480
I know. 
I actually I took notice that 

284
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,560
last week. 
So anyway, I kind of decided 

285
00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,320
that I'm sort of bored talking 
about studies. 

286
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:10,760
So then everyone else probably 
is too. 

287
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,880
Let's move on, yeah? 
I agree. 

288
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:17,520
OK, so basically if you care 
about, if you are someone who 

289
00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,520
like really wants to dive into 
the studies and you care about 

290
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,000
it, some red flags to look for 
is not using a control, using 

291
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,240
less than 20 volunteers for the 
study lasting less than two 

292
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,960
weeks or only using one person. 
Like that's not a very good 

293
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,720
sample size. 
And then also another last thing

294
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,360
that's important to know is that
sometimes companies don't even 

295
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,800
do their own studies. 
They'll only use the rabbit ear 

296
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,840
results or those online acne 
checkers. 

297
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,440
So the company doesn't have any 
studies to back up the non 

298
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,360
comedogenic claim on their 
product. 

299
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,720
The claim is purely marketing. 
Yeah. 

300
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:53,240
And using an acne checker as 
your proof that something's non 

301
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,760
comedogenic is enough. 
Yeah, as far as that particular 

302
00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:03,000
claim goes, the FDA is fine with
that being like your evidence. 

303
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:04,000
So. 
So. 

304
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,520
Listen to last week's episode 
and decide if that is enough for

305
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,000
you. 
If you if. 

306
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,440
Community is something that is 
important to you because I think

307
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,480
if you're acne prone I 
definitely think there is 

308
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,560
validity. 
I guess to looking for products 

309
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,520
that are non community genic 
because there are certain 

310
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,600
products that are more likely to
break people that are acne prone

311
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,280
out than others for sure. 
And again, that's way more to do

312
00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:31,640
with the formula and like 
breathability of formula and how

313
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,520
that formula reacts with your 
microbiome, which once again, 50

314
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:39,040
years ago when this rabbit ear 
study was done, the microbiome 

315
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,320
was not a topic of conversation.
No, they don't care. 

316
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,920
And that's if it even. 
Existed 50 years ago. 

317
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,800
We had not developed bacteria on
our skin plate. 

318
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,880
Evolved since, yeah. 
So if non comedogenicity is 

319
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,200
something that's important to 
you, you need to look for actual

320
00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,400
studies, not just the claim on 
the packaging saying it's non 

321
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,520
comedogenic because that doesn't
mean anything. 

322
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:02,720
No, you can throw that on just 
about anything. 

323
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,040
Another thing that you might see
on product labels is the term 

324
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,839
non acnegenic. 
So what is the difference 

325
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:12,400
between non comedogenic and non 
acnegenic? 

326
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:13,880
You might be asking yourself 
I'm. 

327
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,200
Definitely asking. 
I already asked. 

328
00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,680
Yes, you. 
Did you were ahead of the curve?

329
00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,760
So there is a difference between
products that are non 

330
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,720
comedogenic and non acnegenic. 
Non comedogenic refers to a 

331
00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,680
product that's been formulated 
or tested so it won't clog pores

332
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,960
or form blackheads and 
whiteheads. 

333
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,360
And non comedogenic studies, if 
they're well, they count new 

334
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:37,160
comedones after three to four 
weeks. 

335
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,240
Non acnegenic means that the 
product won't cause comedones or

336
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,080
the inflammatory lesions that 
follow comedones. 

337
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,400
So I didn't really go into all 
of this, but they're kind of 

338
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,880
different stages of acne. 
So there's like the early 

339
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,720
formation where it'll kind of 
clog your pores a little bit and

340
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,200
then it can move into like 
cystic acne depending on the 

341
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,040
severity of it. 
So basically non acnegenic 

342
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,920
addresses the the entire acne 
process, whereas non comedogenic

343
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,280
refers to the initial plugging 
of the poor. 

344
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,240
So just because it's comedogenic
does not necessarily mean it's 

345
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,200
going to lead to acne. 
OK. 

346
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,760
Yeah, that makes sense. 
Yes, But the comedogenic test, 

347
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,680
they were testing the rabbit ear
skin talk about that more last 

348
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:25,120
week. 
But that was specifically used 

349
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:28,480
because it showed an accelerated
version of like the initial 

350
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:29,480
clogging. 
Yeah. 

351
00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,240
But like we have mentioned with 
formulations, important 

352
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,360
application is important. 
In some of these tests, they 

353
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:39,960
were applying things and leaving
them for like 48 hours and 

354
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,040
stuff. 
I'm sure that's where this 

355
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,000
acneogenic comes in a little bit
more. 

356
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,040
Yeah, it's clogged. 
But does that actually lead to 

357
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,720
anything exactly or is it being 
removed? 

358
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,000
And yes. 
Swept away exactly because non 

359
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,680
acneogenic studies are usually 
more robust than non comedogenic

360
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,640
studies because a product can 
pass a poor clog test but still 

361
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,800
inflamed your follicle enough 
that they would fail a full on 

362
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:11,000
acne test yeah so non acne genic
is just a more robust version of

363
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,040
testing assuming that the 
testing was done well right that

364
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,640
they did a good study that's. 
Always a big assumption, yeah? 

365
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,760
Yes that's true but I would I 
don't see the term non acne 

366
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,120
genic as much as I see non genic
not. 

367
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:28,400
As big of a buzzword, yes, 
probably because it requires a 

368
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,840
little bit more FDA proof than 
non comedogenic would. 

369
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:33,400
Yes, that would be my guess, 
yeah. 

370
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,880
Especially because acne is 
regulated by the FDA. 

371
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:43,080
Yeah, I don't actually know if 
the term non acne genic is also.

372
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:44,560
Regulated. 
Regulated. 

373
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,600
I should look into that. 
Yeah, I don't know either off 

374
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,040
the top of my head, but yeah. 
Anyway, but that's the 

375
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:51,920
difference if you see those two 
different things. 

376
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,520
Non acne genic is generally more
robust than non comedogenic if 

377
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:57,040
it's. 
Not regulated by the FDA. 

378
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,240
I'm sure it's a term that's 
going to be making the rounds 

379
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,240
and marketing at some point for 
sure, yes. 

380
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,240
If we're not. 
Saying it now, we'll be seeing 

381
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,080
it eventually once people are 
Privy to non committogenic not 

382
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,400
being a big deal once. 
This episode comes out, things 

383
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,200
are going to change. 
Once we spill the tea on 

384
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:18,960
comedogenicity, the people are 
going to. 

385
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,120
Know. 
OK, let's chat about acne 

386
00:20:22,120 --> 00:20:25,440
checking software and how it 
works and how accurate it 

387
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,240
actually is. 
There are a bunch of different 

388
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,000
websites or different types of 
software online. 

389
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,640
They're typically called poor 
clogging ingredient checkers and

390
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,640
they allow you to either scan a 
barcode of a product or copy and

391
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,400
paste an ingredient list into 
the website. 

392
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,800
And the theory behind it is that
the software will scan the list 

393
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,720
and then tell you if there are 
any comedogenic ingredients in 

394
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,320
the product. 
Most of the software's use James

395
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,920
Fulton's 1989 study and or the 
original rabbit ear study as 

396
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:56,760
their reference for the 
comedogenic ingredients 

397
00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,160
ingredients. 
So they're basing the software 

398
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,040
off of ingredients that we've 
put on rabbit ears, which we've 

399
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:04,080
50 years. 
Ago 50. 

400
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,240
Years ago, which we've already 
discussed. 

401
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,520
Maybe there's some accuracy 
issues with that? 

402
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,840
Maybe I don't. 
Know I'm not a scientist. 

403
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,440
These. 
Can be helpful if you're really 

404
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,440
prone to breaking out, but they 
almost always over flag 

405
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:24,080
ingredients because there's zero
context to any of these tools. 

406
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,760
Like every single app or website
has a different metric for what 

407
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,360
they think ingredients clog 
pores. 

408
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,840
Like you can put the same 
product into 10 different 

409
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,600
websites and they're going to 
flag different things. 

410
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,040
There's no consistency between 
them, which can be really 

411
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,040
confusing. 
Some companies might consider 

412
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,000
anything above 1 to be 
communogenic, which we talked 

413
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,000
about last week, but there's 
basically a scale from zero to 

414
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,280
three where 0 doesn't clog pores
at all in three, like strongly 

415
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,240
clogs pores. 
So a company could say anything 

416
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,560
above 1 is communogenic, Another
company could say anything above

417
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,680
3 is communogenic. 
Like they all just have 

418
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,960
different metrics. 
And they? 

419
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:02,040
Can also provide false 
positives. 

420
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,360
Rabbit skin is way more 
sensitive than human skin, so 

421
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:08,440
ratings that are two to three on
rabbits could be completely 

422
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,040
harmless to humans. 
It just is not a very accurate 

423
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:17,160
way of flying ingredients. 
And lastly, these checkers don't

424
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,560
consider the concentration of 
something. 

425
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:24,960
Something at 5% and .05% in the 
same formula would still be 

426
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,520
flagged the same. 
Yeah, but they probably would 

427
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,600
not have the same effect on your
face, no. 

428
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,240
At those. 
Different concentrations 

429
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:32,840
probably. 
Not so. 

430
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,280
They're generally inaccurate. 
You really need to take them 

431
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,320
with a grain of salt. 
I do not like using them, I 

432
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,360
don't think they are a good 
frame of reference and I think 

433
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,320
there are a lot of other ways 
that you can avoid break. 

434
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,600
Yeah, I agree. 
I feel like an ingredient 

435
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,240
checker, even though AI is 
getting better at understanding 

436
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:59,000
like trends in formulations or 
in ingredients, there is still 

437
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,200
just a lot of that is based on 
the information that's out 

438
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,880
there, which when we start to 
look into where what that's even

439
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,960
based on, it's not usually super
hard hitting science to begin 

440
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,120
with. 
But even then, AI is not to a 

441
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:20,600
point where it can scan a 
formula, a product barcode, and 

442
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,960
determine comedogenicity based 
on the ingredients and the 

443
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,640
formula as a whole, because it 
doesn't know the formula as a 

444
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,400
whole. 
And the concentrations of those 

445
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,240
ingredients are going to have a 
huge effect on the finished 

446
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:37,240
formula. 
You could have the exact same 

447
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,720
ingredients in two different 
emulsions and have one behave 

448
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:44,040
more like a water and have the 
other emulsion behave more like 

449
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,160
oil, but they could have like 
the exact same things in them. 

450
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,200
Yeah, technically. 
There's just not any way based 

451
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,920
on a list of ingredients in the 
formula, to be able to tell what

452
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:58,160
that formula is to do on your 
skin, especially if we're just 

453
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,000
comparing it to results of the 
rabbit ear study from 50 years 

454
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:02,600
ago. 
Exactly. 

455
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,080
It's just not accurate, no. 
The ingredient checkers are not 

456
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:11,640
extremely helpful, but I do feel
still that like, even though 

457
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:16,240
there are biases and reviews and
companies incentivize positive 

458
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,160
reviews, I still think that can 
be a really good source of 

459
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,360
information on specific 
formulas. 

460
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,120
Because usually you can find 
people who share their 

461
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:31,360
experience and, like, it could 
have a million great reviews. 

462
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:34,160
And then you'll see one that's 
like, this made my skin way 

463
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:34,960
worse. 
Yeah. 

464
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,600
And you can use that type of 
information as well when 

465
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,680
deciding on products. 
To use exactly that. 

466
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,400
Can also play into the marketing
of products, yeah. 

467
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,160
So for sure. 
So Speaking of which, Doctor 

468
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,320
Michelle Wong of Lab Muffin 
Beauty, love her. 

469
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:55,360
She wrote a great article that 
kind of summed up a lot of what 

470
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:58,720
we said and also gave some 
really good advice for how you 

471
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,800
can use comedogenicity scales 
correctly. 

472
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,800
So if you're having a really bad
breakout but you aren't sure 

473
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,120
which product is causing it, you
can use the scale to rule out 

474
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,120
ingredients. 
If they're ranked really high, 

475
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,480
like a four to five, it might 
not be the root cause, but it 

476
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:18,080
could give you a place to start.
Like, yeah, you can eliminate 

477
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:21,720
maybe the highest possible 
contributing factor. 

478
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,720
Yeah. 
Well I mean like those numbers 

479
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,240
still came from some sort of 
observation. 

480
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:33,800
Yep, and like if a certain 
petrol atom at 100% does cause 

481
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:40,160
some clogged pores than a lotion
with petrol atom probably has a 

482
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,760
higher chance than a lotion. 
Without a lotion. 

483
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,520
Without I mean at least enough 
that in your trial and error it 

484
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,200
could be worth considering 
exactly, especially. 

485
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,160
If you're breakout prone, I 
think yeah, that's the biggest 

486
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,720
differentiator is if you aren't 
someone who really struggles 

487
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,120
with acne or is prone to 
breakouts, you probably don't 

488
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:01,000
need to worry about this 
comedogenicity scale as much as 

489
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,160
someone who is more prone to it.
But even and then because the 

490
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,480
final formula matters so much, 
it just gives you a starting 

491
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,360
point. 
It's just a place to maybe you 

492
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:13,720
can eliminate that and see if 
that helps, But it's not a 

493
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,560
guarantee that it will, right? 
You can also avoid applying 

494
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,440
concentrated ingredients to your
face like oils and butters if 

495
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,320
they're highly comedogenic. 
Ingredients are more likely to 

496
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,160
be comedogenic at higher 
concentration. 

497
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,160
So if you're using an ingredient
like coconut oil, which has a 

498
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:32,480
rating of four directly on your 
face, and you're prone to acne, 

499
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,880
you might want to proceed with 
caution or avoid it altogether. 

500
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,840
You might be totally fine. 
You might have an issue. 

501
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,040
It just depends on your skin. 
Yeah. 

502
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,280
I did mention, I think last week
that I wanted to try using 

503
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,520
coconut oil to remove my makeup.
But I also think it's important 

504
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,640
to mention that if I do try 
doing this, I plan on following 

505
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,600
it up with a cleanser, which 
would negate probably all of the

506
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,280
community that I would have 
experienced from coconut oil. 

507
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,960
Because I'm I'm guessing that 
this rating of four has much 

508
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,520
more to do with if I were to put
coconut oil on top of my makeup 

509
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,080
and then go to bed. 
Exactly which is not. 

510
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,480
How I'm going to be using it, 
yeah. 

511
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,560
So still going to try it, yeah. 
It's been a whole week since you

512
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:19,080
said you'd try it last. 
I. 

513
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,120
Know I can't believe. 
You haven't tried it? 

514
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:22,960
Well, I. 
Still, I haven't taken off my 

515
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,840
makeup yet. 
I don't know why I'm breaking 

516
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,040
out I. 
Have no idea. 

517
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,920
I can't. 
Tell she also says in her 

518
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,520
article, don't worry too much of
A comedogenic ingredient is 

519
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,920
lower than the first 5 or so 
ingredients because it's 

520
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,400
probably not in the formula 
enough to have a huge impact. 

521
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,600
The most important thing I think
any of us could ever say about 

522
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,520
comedogenicity is to always 
patch test your products before 

523
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,560
you apply it to your face. 
Generally what I would recommend

524
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,840
is putting a little bit on your 
arm first. 

525
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,120
If there's no irritation, you 
can put a little bit on your 

526
00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:55,120
face. 
I like to do it on like the 

527
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,240
right below my ear, kind of 
because I could cover it with my

528
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,440
hair. 
If it caused any problems, I'll 

529
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,920
apply it there for a couple days
and then if I don't have any 

530
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,480
issues, I'll apply it to my 
whole face. 

531
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,200
Yeah. 
That can help you avoid large 

532
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,800
breakouts. 
And I can also kind of help you 

533
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,520
narrow down which products might
be comedogenic to you, because 

534
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:16,320
again, your personal skin and 
the formulation are what 

535
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,360
actually are going to determine 
comedogenicity. 

536
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,600
Together, and if you do a spot 
test like that, you can rule out

537
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,680
other environmental factors a 
little bit more because they can

538
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,040
be caused by so many other 
things like just disrupting the 

539
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,920
natural process of your skin. 
So even just like getting a 

540
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,440
little extra sun could make you 
break out, you know? 

541
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,360
And so doing a little patch test
in an inconspicuous area can 

542
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:46,520
help you kind of rule out other 
things like hormonal acne or 

543
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,720
incorrectly applied makeup or 
something like that. 

544
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,360
That's just the factors that 
come into play when being alive.

545
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,240
Exactly. 
So yeah, basically the term non 

546
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,880
communogenic use for marketing 
is only as good as the 

547
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:06,760
unpublished data behind it. 
So your safest bet is to patch 

548
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,760
test the products, pay attention
to how your skin behaves, and 

549
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,240
then also remember that the 
concentration and the four 

550
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,800
formula matter way more than any
single ingredient rating ever 

551
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:16,560
could. 
Yeah. 

552
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,080
Thank you so much for covering 
all of that, of course. 

553
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,200
It really was so fun. 
I like dove into the article and

554
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,800
it was interesting to kind of 
see how it was done and see how 

555
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,280
it's been misinterpreted over 
the years. 

556
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,000
Yeah, I mean we. 
Remind you guys a lot about the 

557
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:39,000
shortcomings of mankind, but 
just to remind you again in 

558
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,840
case. 
You needed one. 

559
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,560
In case you needed to remember, 
remember it again, it's trying 

560
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,440
time. 
We are still in the process of 

561
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,760
learning a lot about how this 
stuff works. 

562
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,720
Science as a whole still has a 
really long way to come. 

563
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,360
And we've talked about the 
reason why that's a slow moving 

564
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,760
process. 
But there are still so many 

565
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,240
things that we are learning 
about things like the microbiome

566
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,760
and why acne exists. 
And even if certain ingredients 

567
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,840
do accelerate acne or make it 
worse, these are all things that

568
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,080
we are still trying to figure 
out. 

569
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,880
It's still going to take a long 
time, yeah. 

570
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:23,840
But hopefully we can continue as
scientists to make advancements 

571
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,400
in that and start to figure out 
a little bit more of the 

572
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,360
specific reasons why acne is 
happening. 

573
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,160
Yep. 
But for now, unfortunately, it's

574
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,280
still just a lot of trial and 
error and a lot of using our 

575
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,640
best guess. 
Which is essentially the of 

576
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,760
every single episode we've ever 
done. 

577
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,680
Yeah, but don't. 
Ever trust people that think 

578
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,040
they know all the answers? 
Because yes, those are your red 

579
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,240
flags, Yeah. 
True, it's important to be able 

580
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,560
to say, yeah, we have a decent 
idea, but this definitely needs 

581
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,280
to be improved upon and there's 
a lot we could learn. 

582
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,320
Yep. 
Don't ever stop learning, guys. 

583
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,760
Don't do it. 
And let's not stop learning now.

584
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,680
Why don't you keep learning 
about this topic over on our 

585
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:13,360
website where you can find our 
blog post and sources for 

586
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,000
today's episode. 
And you can do that at 

587
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,720
beautyxspeaker.com. 
You can also. 

588
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,280
Follow us on our social media 
pages pretty much everywhere at 

589
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,240
Beauty X Speaker you can also 
find our personal Instagram 

590
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:27,960
pages. 
I'm Sadie, BXB and I. 

591
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,440
Am not BXB and we. 
Would be so happy if you liked, 

592
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,720
subscribed and commented your 
favorite part of this episode. 

593
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,440
Yeah. 
And if you can help us raise, 

594
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,080
Yeah, we. 
Are 0% of the way to our goal to

595
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,360
a new hard drive. 
So if you want the episodes to 

596
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,480
keep flowing, then please share 
this episode with a friend. 

597
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,760
Share it. 
Get our viewership up so that we

598
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,200
can start making some ad money, 
you know? 

599
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,600
I feel like a grifter, hey. 
This is this is panhandling in 

600
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:02,920
2026. 
Yes. 

601
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,800
And luckily you don't have to 
hand me cash. 

602
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,480
You just have to hand somebody 
else. 

603
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,400
The link to this episode. 
Exactly. 

604
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,200
Hand us your hand in the form of
a like yes and. 

605
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,520
If you're not already, please 
subscribe. 

606
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,000
It actually does help so much 
and subscribers is kind of what 

607
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,000
we need in order to start making
money. 

608
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,760
So we are. 1/10 of the wear 
there, yeah. 

609
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,680
So it even make some new 
accounts subscribe. 

610
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,000
I don't care. 
I don't care how it works. 

611
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,480
We just need 1000 of you to do 
it. 

612
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,640
And log on to her computer and 
subscribe for a channel. 

613
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,960
Literally. 
It doesn't matter. 

614
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,360
We are asking you, begging you, 
Please just help us get there. 

615
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,880
And then once we get there, you 
won't have to help us as much. 

616
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,000
We promise we won't spend. 10 
minutes at the beginning and the

617
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,160
end of every episode. 
Asking for. 

618
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,120
You to give us. 
Money. 

619
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:59,840
Anyway, I'm getting a phone call
and I need to go to the. 

620
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:00,760
Bathroom. 
OK, bye.