Hello. Welcome to this very special
edition of the clinic meant podcast.
Today, we're joined with two special guests with Casper and
you're Hannah's from Denmark, as they give us a very in-depth
review of the army book, dark elves.
Hey and welcome back to the crown of command podcast.
I am joined today by Casper and he's a player.
I've been playing with for a long time.
I'm Joe by the way, you know he's your Hannah's I've been on
the podcast for a few times now with Joshua and today we'll be
introducing Casper. Who's quite an expert expert on
tactics as well. So if you would like to say a
few words about yourself. Yeah.
Hey I'm Casper and I've been playing warmer 50.
Shin as a kid, a lot and started playing it again two years ago,
something like that. Yeah, I care a lot about the
tactics and use a lot of times and building armies and Yeah, I
think that's it. Yeah and we are going to talk
about Dark Elves today and which was there my main Army that I
played as a kid. And I never really got a hang of
it as a kid. I always lost all my battles and
tournaments and but I think I have a much better grasp at it.
Now that's good. Well, we're going through the in
this podcast will be starting with the unit's because there
are more sensual than the characters in the dark as
rosters from here. Agreed upon by a before we start
the podcast. So I guess we'll just go
straight through it and The first off, we have the cold one
Knights. Yes.
This is a very, very interesting unit.
It has a lot of good things going for it and it has one
really bad thing going for it. We'll get to that.
But basically the good things is the cold one has two attacks.
And It gives spotting without movement penalty and it causes
fear. And the fifth part is very, very
strong. Mostly because it, it makes sure
that your nights won't have to take a fear test themselves.
And that's very, very strong and the unit could be really, really
good, but it has one really bad big downsides and that's their
stupidity and being stupid is just the worst.
The worst rule you can have because it negates your combat
abilities. It negates your charges.
It's not like It's way worse than their failing animosity or
what's the beastmen rule? I forgot what it's called.
Infighting. Yeah.
Invite acid. Yeah.
So stupidity is much, much worse, and with leadership 8,
You're Gonna Lose the that stupidity quite a lot.
If you put your general in the unit, you have a leadership 10
and that's what sound good in most people's ears, I think.
But But still going to fail once in awhile, but still, in a
combat of five rounds, you going to fail once.
And unless that's One of the church few turns where it isn't.
Crucial. Yeah, you can you can do.
So, the game pretty much for the cost of the unit that's going to
be. Yeah, with 38 points a model
without any specialized, extra items.
Yeah. But but the yeah, the unit
really has a lot of good things going for it.
The night has weapon skill, 5 with doesn't really come into
effect that often mostly It's usually a three plus in most
cases. Yeah.
Mostly it won't be better than
having the full weapon skill. So and then you don't have the
strength which also a big downsize.
Yeah. Even with the Lance, you only
get a strength of five when you're trying to get so you're
not going to negate a lot of armor. but you have three
attacks per model, so A banner of might in this, this unit is
really really good because it makes the cold one.
Hit a lot easier. But there's one problem with
having been of my that is that you then you're not going to
have blood Banner, so you can't there.
Nick in your bedroom to be school again.
Yeah, there's stupidity rule. So those are my main choices?
Usually, for this unit, either take blood better or I take the
huge gamble risk and I go with Ben of Might and so the unit is
a lot better and it performs a lot better.
And that's how I would like the unit to be, but it's a huge
gamble at the for those of you who don't know, blood Banner
ignores the stupidity and been of my gifts, the all unit, both
the Rider and the And the code 1 + 1 2 hit in combat.
Yeah, we talked about the been of Mind.
A bit in the podcast about the tools and also about their lack
of attacks, making them a little flesh harder to make killer
units or killer characters. But of course you have to get
three attacks but then they caused a damn time sidles, the
pigeon, the totally agree on your points.
Concerning this unit. What I would like to hear is if
there any particular map The way you would use these for sure, or
is it something is a from game to game you consider it.
Like, if you're building a standard Army for Dark Elves,
would you have these always or would be something you would
consider it up? Using it all?
Yeah, in standard install is standard Army for tournament or
something like that. I wouldn't use this unit.
It needs too much support because The unit is almost Good
Enough by itself to do damage but that's all.
That's only almost it still needs to have your general to do
to have a little bit of extra punch.
I think a problem with nights in general is that you're going to
face if you chase a few charge regiment on foot with the ranks
you already three. Bowman's behind and your nights
need to do a lot of work. So a night, regiment in any army
without a character is rarely strong enough to to do enough
damage to compensate for. Yeah.
For those Rank and file for not hitting.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
The cares nights but they're really expensive, they, of
course, can do it, but they're very few.
Knights who can without a character in them.
And on top of that, for this unit to work, you need a
character in it. You need probably, I would take
the blood Banner for it to really be safe and I think you
need a support Regiment of the dark Riders too.
To protect them, protect your nights from chariots or adjust
missile fire or simply just to support your nights.
So, you're going to invest a lot of points in just having a small
Regiment of code One Nights, because you need to build
support for them. So instead of the army, I don't
think they're ever worth it. it is nice that they have seven
charge range or 14 charge range because they only get the
penalty for heavy armor and shield, because they're not
boarded, yeah, but I think I would consider this in when
facing units that causes fear. So I have a unit of my own that
causes fear so I'm sure that that's not going to fail.
Because you, if you charge an enemy that causes fear and
failure test, you hit an sixes. And yeah you lose so basically
like when facing Undead or Shimla, yeah.
I haven't made a dagger of list against and on that.
But I'm I think it could be useful in that case and then
they are cool models. So I think a lot of people would
like to include them. Yeah, they look great.
Yep. Especially the old versions.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not so much.
The very old versions. I really like those cold ones
that are bit fat, they look a lot cooler and I have a few of
them, just not a lot. But I have really been trying to
make this unit to compensate for the errors.
They have, but they just need a lot of support and mostly me and
Johannes we play two thousand points battles.
Maybe it would be considered in larger battles and would perform
better because They are expensive.
Yeah, but they also they also have a lot of good things going
for them. Yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
It definitely an army. That's 2,000 more than 2,000
points. It would be maybe a wriggling
inclusion. But yeah.
So now the stupidity is perhaps a bit too overwhelming compared
to that cost now, you mentioned dark Riders and that's next unit
will be moving on to. So they're felt a bit cheap 25
points and model. What are your thoughts?
Yep, I don't think they're cheap.
I think they're very expensive. Compared to darker took a
practical one register. That's cheaper.
Yeah, yeah. But they have a completely
different role and I think they are, they're much more likely to
earn their worth than gold one night.
It's a really, really good unit. You pay a lot of points for all
those special rules but they those special rules can really
come in handy. I remember playing a battle
against the, as a kid against a guy where I had two small units
of dark riders. That Had the special deployment
where they can move much before battle started that then the
charge is charged. His, these are just the first
tone and pretty much chain reacted.
And bro, killer his whole, his whole ranks of all the good
units. He was very unlucky but it was
very cool to win the game at the first round.
I think so imagine so But that's it's rarely that the that the
that ability is very handy it's nice but it's not the best
abilities. They have is Skirmish and expert
Riders, expert Riders makes them very decent.
Shots and I would never consider having dark Riders without
crossbows. It's just so important to have
those crossbow. Some and I will also never
consider having them without Spears because Because then, you
don't have. The option of charging with
them. Yeah, because then they don't
get the extra strength, bonus, making it more difficult to go
through and if you already going to pay, That many points then
you might as well use the last point.
So you also can do some different things, work for these
and yeah, it's a very good unit. They are Impossibility, the role
on the battlefield. but mainly they That role is to.
Pig of small small units of arches or a brass, but if you
just going to harass with them, then you are not going to earn
their own cost in worth. You need you need to think to
have a clear role with dark Riders.
If you're going to include them, It's very good to have mobility
and you can use them as support to your night.
So unites those doesn't get it charged by Chariot or something
like that. And and that would be the main
role I think for them that or A specifically targeting something
that I need that. I know my opponent is bringing
so in for a tournament or something like that, I wouldn't
Her waist my poems, and dark Riders, and because they're too
expensive. Yeah, yeah.
Okay. And the also, yeah, you, you
cannot do stranger things, you things with these making them
big tough unit or give them a banner because they're not
allowed to. Yeah.
They you need to have a very clear and defined role what
you're going to use them for if you gonna include them, I think,
okay? So you wouldn't consider them in
a in a standard Army unless you had an idea of what you were
facing. Yeah, exactly.
All right, let's let's move on. We're now going on to the
Infantry part. Yeah.
And first off, we have the first of the elite infantry, you can
get with the dark elves and that's the execution.
Yep. At first glance, the execution
is should look good because they have whooping skilled.
They have strength but they're really not because they at 16
points with double handed weapons.
Then basically, I just think that all units with double
handed weapons. They need to have toughness for
and very good armor, safe, and probably most of the time most
of the time, that's not enough because they need to survive to
to get the hits in and the the only niche Way that this unit is
ever gonna kill. Anything is a when facing other
units that has a double handed weapons.
And and that's very optimistic to firstly.
Count on your opponent, having a unit like that, and then also
counting on your pwning folding meeting your Executioner's on
the battle. Yeah.
While they do have a bit more movement.
But again, they also stopped by the fact that they only have one
attack. And the attack last, always.
Yeah. So they're not gonna attack
against 80% of the opponent's life, they face.
Then if you have five of them, then probably one or two is
gonna Survive to attack. And that's just not going to do
it. So I would say for this, for the
price of them, and they are a very bad unit and I would never
consider including it. Yeah, I think I agree with you
on this one. Even with their special ability
to cause D3 wounds, I mean that maybe they will.
If they met large, monstrous infantry who also has two handed
weapons and they got to do the charge but again, they like a
movement on Monsters infantry. So they rarely get to charge.
Yeah. But that doesn't, that doesn't
matter. Because if both Yeah, they have
to they go by initiative, but not by charging, if both units
have a true. So they so that's the only way
they could be used is when facing Crocs egos or Dragon
ogas. But that's if your opponent has
those units, you can just steer clear of your Executioner's and
if you If you have brought a big unit of Executioner's, then
you're not going to have a lot of other things.
Yeah, not worth it. That simple.
You look good though. Yeah, they're cool models in
various. Version version stuff Warhammer.
Exactly. But there's no, there's no way
to make them good, even if you put your General in, and you
give him Ruby jealous, it's not. It's not gonna be enough to even
that, though that you print, protect them with mean - one to
hit. Yeah, that obviously does not
compensate to be armed service is terrible compared to it.
Being a leak unit. Yeah.
And then you can give them standard of shielding as well,
but it's still just not going to be good enough.
Even with - want to hit and the 4 plus say, I still think the
unit is not going to be good enough.
Yeah. All right.
Let's go on to the next Legion at the blackguard of Megara.
Yeah, and this is also Unit, that looks very good and has a
lot of cool models in different versions.
And in later editions, I believe it's a very very strong unit I
think in six it became unbreakable.
I'm not sure about that though but they also get to attack from
the second ranked as a standard for all armies.
Basically? Yeah okay but in this version
they are just just as bad as bad as a Executioner's they lose the
strength that Executioner's has going for Boom.
So maybe they're even worse, but yeah, they're not gonna They
replace the strength with an initiative, so yeah.
But it seems kind of silly, they don't strike glass so they might
kill kill the unit but they re not really good at killing
anything because they only have the strength of four with the
hell bird yet and they only have one attack.
So it's, it's yeah, the stats is it's okay and they will and they
will win combat against a lot of regimens that they meet if
there's no characters involved and But if you, if they meet a
regiment that cost the same as at this regiment does, they're
not gonna win. Yeah, so basically they're
they're not worth their points course.
No, they way way too expensive. And yeah, at first, to start
with all ill, factions are so expensive.
So you need to really, really consider what the regiment you
bring. Yeah, that makes sense.
All right, you have a sound of them.
Now, this is some problem. It's better now.
Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's continue.
Yeah we're going. Moving on to the Taco
crossbowmen. Yeah, but just to close it up
with the black guards. Yeah, you you don't. you need to
be very Very strong and your decisions about prioritizing
what you're going to bring in a toggle for me because everything
is expensive and you're not going to have a little bit of
everything like you can with let's say the orc Army.
So you need to be very, very cost efficient.
Yeah, cost-efficient that's probably the better word for it
but yeah, totally get that deal. All the L fraction some of the
same issue. Yeah, I have so much the poodle,
since they have a lot of value from their arches.
But anyway, let's let's move on to the dark L crossbowmen.
Yeah. The repeater in crossbow is just
such a strong tool and probably the strongest tool that the dog
will roster has available. And this is a very, very good
unit. But as we will see later on,
there's a unit that cost the same Scouts.
That's a lot better. Yeah, I would have no reason to
to include this unit. The only reason being it allows
you to get the ball throw, which has extremely harsh condition to
include in the dog of roster. So, in order to get the ball
throw, you might have one unit of crossbowmen.
But otherwise I would always pick the scouts over
crossbowmen. Yeah.
I guess that's the quite possibly.
The reason why there's a harsh conditions on the popo is that
you don't just build an army time the other Scouts.
But yeah, but the conditions in the the high elf.
Both throw us a lot easier to meet you.
Can there, you can have include to Bob throws before you have to
Consider getting yeah and the Union's the units that unlock
both Rose doesn't even have to be more than five models.
They have to be 10 in that the dark elf roster.
Yeah, yeah. So crossbow men I think is only
for unlocking both Rose. Yeah, makes sense.
Given that these cows can Skirmish and the crosswind
cannot. Yeah, notice when I want to do
snakes kill. Yeah, which makes a huge
difference yet. But let's move on to the
cheapest unit in the dargah frost.
Yeah the dark elf Warriors yes, and I personally I cannot see a
point to this unit, except if you're really desperate for all
for a unit and you don't have the points or anything else, but
why would take this one? Just take a few less models from
your good unit. Exactly.
It's not gonna perform even though it's the cheapest model
you have. It's it's it's very weak and
it's not going to perform very well against Most foes, I don't
think you will ever meet regiment, which you can beat
with this with the dial Warriors, unless your opponent
includes really bad unit. Yeah, like this would you this
this is the same issue for the tag of Warriors that the
blackout of Niagara as basically anything worse, worth the same
cost as them. Defeat them.
Yeah. And hands down And the nail in
the coffin is that this unit cannot have a banner magic
banner. And yeah.
So yeah. It's out of my list.
Yeah, makes sense. I have not even considered once
after I noticed that they couldn't get Speers either.
That would be something some Saving Grace for them no but
they have targeted for us to her spearmint.
Yeah. But yeah, it's we will be
getting to next here. The the dark elf City guard.
Yeah. This unit can also unlock.
Both Rose. At least.
I think they can. Let me just I believe.
So yes, yes, yeah done. So before it's just some old
matters and it might be, it might be worth to consider
having a unit of those instead of crossbow, men, but they're
really not good enough. To include either.
The idea is really cool with having crossbows in the front
and Spears in the back and I also think that it is this unit
will perform pretty well, but again, not good enough.
And not compared to some of the units that we're going to be
getting to next. Exactly.
Dog of roster has a lot of another lot, but they have units
on foot, they're just way way better that you should always
take instead of these units that we're talking about right now.
Yeah. And we're going to be getting to
one of them now. Yeah, it is the which elves.
Yeah. And oh boy which is so good.
I think it's it's close to being the best unit on foot in terms
of killing stuff. In the win Warhammer for the
price. They are really, really cheap
for having three attacks and strength for because they have
poison attacks. So can they have the two Hand
weapons and the friends? Yeah, so it's three attacks with
with strength for and if you put a banner of my down this unit
it's going to be really really good and it's going to be even
more exciting in saying if you start putting a which shelf
characters in the unit as well. And and this unit might actually
charge a few times because it's ills with move five.
So there's a, there's a, there's a better chance than if they had
move for. So, so this is a very good unit,
but it has to charge. They're gonna, they're not gonna
going to strike if they get charged.
Yeah because the basically have no armor see and they have
softness three. So they're they're like really,
really strong paper everywhere is from paper.
Yeah. And of course, they have
friends. He's so they also as long as
they were then, charge range of an any Target, they also immune
to psychology, which is another bonus, they get ya.
And then, of course the you know, if your enemies Skilled in
the battlefield. You can bait at unit of a
frenzied twitchell's. And as a kid I often had a very
very large unit of which shows with a lot of characters in it
and the it did perform good when people didn't paid it, but when
people will, if you put too many points into it and And people
just paid it with a week. Yeah unit all like giant rats or
something. I like Cavalry and just run away
and you are angle gets all messed up and they might not see
combat at all. And that's the problem with
frenzied attack units on foot. It can be difficult to.
To maneuver them. but, yeah, if you're if your opponent doesn't
get the chance to debate them, then they can really perform.
Very good. Yeah, makes sense.
And this is our weird. That doesn't need any support at
all. It's it's very good just to
start with just include 10 with chills.
It's very, very good can protect your your back line, you're both
Rose and and I don't think there's a flying unit that will
just pull through us if they don't beat it, the first round
on, which you'll charges into support, and which uses gonna
tear through that unit, almost it has to be a very, very big
flying thing for them not to So it's a good unit is very good
unit. Yeah.
And if you, if you start putting as I said characters in it, it's
going to be even better. Everything will get two
characters, but I just want to say that.
As a kid, I used the, which of hero a lot with this sort of
Squish sling on my windshield hero and it did really, really
You good, you lose the person strength under hero, which is a
very big downside, but but it fixes the problem that if you if
you ever getting charged your normal Troopers will will get to
strike because you are heroes strikes first and kills a lot of
models. So yeah with this what sort of
truce playing Allowing you to strike first, always, and that's
seven attack speaking without the without taking account if
you include the cold room. Yeah.
So we six attacks were made because you can't use the oh
yeah, yeah, six attacks yet. But that's a I think that's a
very very strong nights and four for the which shelf character
even though you lose that one strength but I'm not I'm not
sure that that's that is the right item to pick forward but
but I did that a lot of as a kid and I still and I would still
consider that. All right, let's move on.
Now we get to this is unit. I have discussed quite a few
times with Joshua and now we'll be going a little bit more
detail. To why is possibly the best unit
on the darker fresh pasta? Yeah this is the dark elfs cows.
Yeah and I totally agree with you on that point.
It is By no comparison, the best unit in the dog of roster and
you should eat no matter how you build your army, you should, in
my perspective, include a whole lot of these Boys Scouts are
just so good, having ballistics kill five.
Just makes them even though that they move is out of half range.
They still going to hit on force, a lot of the time.
It's just so good to have ballistics kill five and they
have special employment and they have Skirmish.
So yeah. There they are, very expensive
but because they have Skirmish they are protected a little bit
from enemy missile fires and that helps a lot and you're able
to fire with all of them at the same time.
Yeah, yeah. Taking of you.
Yeah. Advantage for ranged units.
Very, very much and and if they're taking up a lot less
space than a Ten White model unit like the crossbowmen.
So these are just very, very good and they they perform very
good on the the battle and they are very about the efficient as
well. The special deployment allowing
them to deploy anywhere in no man's land between the
deployment zones, as long as they're not within Vision,
beginning of any enemy unit. Yeah, allows them to all So take
out enemy war machines, that easily?
Yeah. Yeah, they can easily do that,
especially war machines with a week crew and All week
toughness. But yeah, you can easily do that
but I would include Very many that many Scouts that you don't
have to let you still have more than you want to official
deploy, how you deploy a lot of them in your deployment Zone as
well. Just because this unit is just
so good. Yeah, and this is the thing that
That have started to lean more and more against that in order
to make the dark elf rust, diagonals unit, a good unit or
arm. Good army.
Yeah. Yeah.
You need a lot of Scouts and I would say that anything less
than 50 Scouts in a 24 2000 points, battle is Is not
something that I'm considering anymore.
Yeah. So you'd want to at least 25
Scouts per thousand points in an army.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think they're that good and
they will perform And we've also discussed a lot concerning
whether a matchup between Dark Elves and would else.
I, we both sort of on the same idea that if woodles Vine up
with arches and stock else lined up with Scouts, then the scouts
will prevail. Yeah, I have never tried that
matchup but I but I think that the, of course, the woodles has
a lot of the range. So you might take a lot of
casualties there, the first round, and the first round, you
might just have to March forward with all your Scouts, but the
second round, you probably are gonna make up for it.
Yeah. But I don't know.
Given that they have Skirmish, they also handle to hit.
Yeah. And the standard wood elf arches
only have ability skill of for ya.
You need to re-watch this, but you all their own Scouts, but
they Are fair bit more expensive than the dark elves house?
Yeah, we have five twice. So on paper, I think the at a
dark elf I'll me with a lot of range.
The scouts with the would kill and Widow for me.
Yeah. But I haven't tried him at the
matchup soon. Okay.
Yeah we'll probably get to that at some point.
All right, this is let's move on to the next unit.
This one, of course we've discussed in a bit as well in a
previous podcast but we're going to go into more detail.
This is the blackout Co says now we have some feedback as well.
Concerning We did not consider these as strong as the dark out
Scouts. Maybe you'd like to go into a
bit more detail. Concerning the actual black, the
caceres and how they compare to the scouts as a unit.
I don't think we really think that is fair to compare melee
unit with a ranged unit, two different.
In cost. Effectiveness least.
Yeah, in cost, Effectiveness Effectiveness.
Yeah, they're not gonna Have that easy time learning, they're
worth, but that depends on on your opponent and what what army
you're facing the black caucus areas are a pretty good unit.
I think having unmodified 5 plus safe, is this very strong?
They can take charges from chariots and at this unit,
really shines when When getting when having some support items
like, like either War Banner or been of defiance or even a
battle Banner, those three banners that gives more combat
result is very good for the unit and and all the were very good
choices. I think.
And, and also a crown of command in this unit is also very, very
strong. I wouldn't do both crown of
command, and the And combat result Banner because kind of
doesn't make it. There's no reason to if you if
you plan on losing combat, there's no reason to to get the
combat results and if you plan on winning there's no reason for
having crown of command. It's sort of like whether you
want the unit to be more offensive or defensive.
Yeah. But those items really really
make the unit strong. And of course I think I think
you need for in order for panel of defiance to work, you need
the unit to be at least 24, 25 strong, but that unit is going
to take a lot of effort for for the unit to for the enemy to you
to break through. and that's say, even without any
characters, supporting it another thing that you can do
with with this is these also unlock both floors and on top of
that you can give them crossbows so they can still shoot.
It's got there going to be expensive, of course but you can
give them You can give them a banner to support so I really
could give them if you have a lot of magic, you could give
them better of sorcery or Banner of Wrath.
So you are you are just that you use to unlock the both Rose
actually has a magic Banner that can do some more things but of
course it's this is going to be costly but that's also a use
that I use from time to time. So yeah, this unit has a lot of
good uses and there and I might even can might even argue that
they perform better than witches, because They not so
dependent on being the one charging.
Yeah, because that's that's safe, so strong.
Yeah, this unit can be posed. Both offensive and defensive.
Yeah. While the which shells are only
offensive? Yeah.
Or at least supporting. Yeah.
I would consider if you if you make the unit very large like 30
models or more, which consider not giving them additional hand
weapons, if you. Because they're not gonna be
very, very good. At fighting, the additional hand
weapons is just to make the probably just going to provide
you with one additional combat result.
Yeah, but that might also be worth. 30 points.
But I'm not sure. Yeah but I think that this unit
is you don't want to to make this unit boost it.
So it's very good in So kill you kill stuff it it's a very good
unit to have drinks with. So if you give it a magic Banner
that gives, give it more combat results, it's going to be very
good. Okay.
Yeah. Definitely agree that it's very
versatile and very strong unit but they, of course, it depends
on the actual Army set of whether you would consider going
cause a has instead of scout. But most of the time, you will
probably include the scouts simply because of their, their
strength all around. Yeah.
And yet if we take a look at these three, Regimens that we
just talked about which of Scouts and Casillas.
This couch always performs and the witcher's, and the Casillas
only performs if they connect with the right Target and your
opponent might just ignore them and you might never get there
because you get all set by Annoying spill or Or your which
heals get faded to run somewhere else.
So investing a lot of into these units. can cost you but I'm not
saying that you shouldn't because they are very, very good
unit but mainly units on foot I just, you need to be very
aggressive with them to reach your you desire Target.
And then means basically marching the full move from turn
one. If you play four rounds, they
might not see come back, if you play five, they probably will.
And they probably also will in, in four rounds.
But but not if your opponent really don't want them to.
So, so that's worth considering so.
A general rule of thumb that I have when building armies in in
the Warhammer 50 decision is I'll never include more than 12
units. Melee units on foot.
Because of because they might just not see?
See battle at all. Okay, my opponent doesn't allow
me to. To get where I want with them.
Yeah. Now I tend to watch that thumb
rule myself, though. I do have a tendency to diverge
from standard tactics. Yeah, we'll get into that more
as we discuss some of the other arm list as well.
Well, let's move on to the last two units, including the
vitamins. And the first one is the dark
elf spinnin. Yep.
And general generally, I think Spearman Very good in 150, they
shouldn't am. The ability to attack from two
ranks when being charged is just very good because it makes it,
make sure that at least some of your models will attack after
getting strike the pain. But I see really no reason to
include Spearman over corsairs. Young basically.
What else does a better job with the save?
They have I think and you don't have the same bonus as the High
Elves payments have that they can tag from to be ranks.
No. So they're just too expensive
and they cannot have a banner and they that too many times
downsizes for them. I think and they would shelf and
consecuencias are just much, much better choices.
Yeah, definitely better infantry choices.
Yeah. Casey.
Yeah a given also the tactic you discussed with the process that
they can also act defensively with for example, the crown of
command. Yeah.
And and the 5 plus on modifiable Save which these p.m. and will
usually not get. Yeah.
And a note to that for the Casias, if you play A campaign
or something, where you you need to capture a point at on the
map. Then I could say a unit with
chronic command is just very, very good because they're not
going to get removed in time. So you're going to get that that
point on the battlefield. Yep.
Sounds so make sense.
Yeah. Now the last unit, which is
where the harpies. And with the dark elves you
allowed to include one unit of harpies as part of your
regiments instead of allies. Do you have a loud?
Screams allies? So it's not instead of are lies.
It's just you. Yeah it's only one unit.
You're allowed to bring out. There's no allies here.
Yeah. Yep.
Harpies is just also include in every Dark, Elf Army.
You always bring five of these guys.
There's no reason not to and there, they really, really good.
They have mobility and they can take care of the War Machine and
most war machines cost around 100 and they are only five is
only 775. Yeah, so cost efficient and And
you can also, because they are very tough, they have two wounds
and softness for. So a lot of the time, if after
you have taken out that war machine, they can even there.
They are still, they are often still five strong and can even
help negate combat bonus from your enemy.
So that's always, I would never consider not bringing five
harpies. Yeah, that makes sense.
It's a great tool for the dark elves.
Yeah, 200 deal in this war machines especially to can't
reach them with discounts. Yeah, definitely.
And also if you're my opponent doesn't have war machines, I
would always bring them. They always have they can fly
down on the battlefield and just to block a charge and then you
sacrifice them for saving your main unit or something like
that. The mobility of have having a
Flying unit is just very very good into too good to not
include. Yeah.
And if your main unit has
clashed with another unit you can negate ranks as you many.
Many different mentioned earlier.
Yeah. And you can even just fly high
with these the first turn and you can just keep them in in the
air until the right moment where you have to litigate combat
result and you can easily win like that.
And since there are there you as well.
They also get five glancing strikes when they attack our
enemies. Yeah.
In the air. Yeah.
So all in all a very good unit and of course, as Castle
mentions, I definitely agree that it's an auto include
especially since you can get it through your regiments.
So I wouldn't include more than five in the elves list but
that's Because I don't have the points for including more.
In rare cases, I think that having eight and like unit with
combat resolve is quit Provide very good I have yet to to do
that. They did once as a kid with
have, I had a lot very large unit of harpies.
So I had I had three drinks with them and they they charge this,
small Champions land and made him run.
There was very good so but that's it's still a lot of
points that you invest in to that and with the elf list, I
don't think you can afford to do stuff like that, perhaps with
the beastmen on my list. Yeah, but then I would rather
have 25. Yeah, a lot of small units with
five. Yeah.
All right, well, I think that wraps about about wraps up the
regiment section. Yeah, we should say, why don't
we have one machines? Yeah, let's go into the war
machines and we're starting with The Cauldron of blood yet.
I'm very unsure if this is is good.
I don't think it's, I don't think it's going to be good in,
in a to thought thousand point or smaller battle.
I think if your paddle needs to be bigger for it to be good,
basically, what this does is it it triples your, which is
attacks? Instead of doubles them, the
first turn of combat and then they also give the witches The
war to save of 6 Plus which they call a revived safe.
So it's actually a bit better because they can come back to
life with this safe and also your which you'll hero can come
back to life after dying if you roll that 6 but it's very
unlikely but it happened to me a few times.
They'll award save is quite even if it is not sick.
Plus, it's still a nice to have a actual water safe on the
regiment. Yeah, yeah.
But it's very expensive and I think in order for it to be good
you you need to to include with chills characters and I don't
see that being very easy and in smaller battles.
Would you consider potentially making a which shelf Army
supported by this cauldron of blood?
That would you only have one singular recommend measurement?
Which is which is at all times. Yeah, I will.
Consider that in some cases. And I that's that's how I like
my mommy when I was a kid. But remember, I always lost.
So even though I had an insane unit, I have my general, I had a
which'll champion and a hero and my sorcerer in the same with
Shield unit, that was a 30 strong or something like that
and cauldron. And then I have to support units
of which elves at the side. I think they were 12 each them.
The only times that the that this worked as a kid was when my
opponent didn't know how strong the unit was and decided to
fight it anyways. Yeah, but but definitely, this
has has a the option and of being good and I think, I think
it can. Yeah, there's no denying that.
It's also an amazing them up. And, and the good thing that
maybe everyone doesn't doesn't know that is that you don't
remove the model. It cannot die.
So even that the keepers and the Guardians die, you still don't
remove it and they can still, if they remain 18 inches, within
use The Cauldron And in the in that case and I'm not sure about
that but I don't think your opponent gets to get points for
it. If they kill it, if you, if you
play a format where you count the points worth you killed
because it's an indestructible. So I don't think I think that's
a Could be a nice way of saving some points from your army.
Yeah, I just having this in the battlefield.
Yeah. And if yeah it cannot match but
if you um, if you you almost sure to have your Witcher within
18, if you just if it just moves 5 inches once then you need your
which up to get really, really far wait to not be within range.
So yep. Yeah, they'll have be fully
inside. Enemy deployment Zone.
Yeah, or way out on the flank. Yeah.
So I think this is very good but I wouldn't waste points on it
unless I went very far down the which'll proud.
Very aggressive Army, potentially one, Maine Regiment
of Wiggles, maybe even some smaller supporting ones, but
yeah, very offensive Army. This is made for ya.
And the problem with that, we'll come back to that.
You will have less point for Scouts, which is exactly which I
don't like. Yeah.
This is almost 10 Scouts less. Yeah.
And also all the characters and the, which of you that you have
to Yeah, to include. Yeah, well, let's one more war
machine for the dark elves. Yeah.
In this Edition. And this is the repeatable
thrower. Yeah.
Now we've already mentioned, the downside is that you need to
include 10 or more of the other Target Warriors, Spearman, cross
woman City Garden or the black are Co science.
Yeah, so is it worth it? Well, I think the repeatable
throw is very strong and it can do a lot of work, and I think
it's, it's worth including one, but if you, if you want to
include more use, it would be still be good if you if you
could like in the high output book include them easily but you
have to take another unit of ten bad units.
Out for, for, for you to include a second repeatable, through as
well. If you did, you understand what
I meant? Yeah, you need the.
So if you want the true Pope Rose you need two units of 10 or
more of these men for before-mentioned units.
Yeah so but that's Can it can it can be done if you have a big
unit of courses that you like as well and then you just kind of
waste your points and one when unit of crossbow men on the side
then you have room for to both Rose.
But I really don't think you need to include to both rowers
because the very strong especially against nights, of
course. And the multiple shot is, it's
very, very good against armored unit but the very big downsize
of Repeatable 30s is that? It has two crew with no safe.
Well, they have 6 Plus say but that's almost the same and they
have toughness 3. So your opponent will just have
have to have a single bow on the general, or something like that,
and then Yeah, then they can you might just lose your Paw Patrol.
Yeah, easily. It's very easy to deal with
because Compared to war for machines, you have three drawers
on all of them, and you, they have toughness for.
This is very, very easy, it's easy hundred points for your
enemy. So so that they they, they very
often have a hard time finding earning their worth before
they're taking out. So what you have to also have to
consider the double almost, the double cost was being forced to
include one of these other units.
Yeah, as well, given the price of Ells.
Yeah, mean dark elf. Back out are Co says you can
use, but you will need to have two units of them in order to
have to bulk rules. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't think I would care to include more than one.
And of course that's that's simply I will I would include
one simply for the map control that it gives.
It makes sure that my opponent Knights doesn't March forward in
the middle of the battle. The first turn at least that
needs to deal with it before. And for example, having a chaos
player having his is cares nights, not doing anything.
Turn is is very much worth it. Yeah. so so it it has it has
very it, helps you with your map control map control is huge in
Very important in water. And also it also provides you
with armor-piercing which is something like if you went to an
army almost full Scouts, you're going to be lacking in our case
facing against for example KS Warriors something you're not
going to be able to kill that many of them.
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, it's good, but very
costly and the inv The High Elves player for be easily
easily be able to include it. Yeah.
All right, I think that about wraps up the the war machines
and is there anything you want to add you?
The one thing that I always was a bit annoyed as for as a kid
was that that diagonal wasn't able to get the Chariots.
Yeah. Doesn't go until the 6th edition
I believe. Yeah but they had to be a cold
one serious. Yeah.
But then again if you they had covid-19 areas that was stupid
then they might Not be that good anyway.
All right. Yeah.
Well, let's move on to the monster list.
Oh yeah. You know, some point.
Yeah, we've been through most of these monsters already in the
tools section of the tactics of houses is podcast a.
However, the difference is that the dark elves I see able to
mount them on Facebook very important thing in 50 efficient.
Yeah. Very because of the bound
monster rule. Now the dark L Russell does have
a altered version of the Hydra the war Hydra giving it a higher
leadership and believe it also has now it's about the same just
has more leadership it I can't remember if it's a the weapon
skill or the initiative something else.
Yeah all can change but the but it has a different breath.
Yeah, let's take so it has strength equal to its number of
remaining wounds. So it starts with breath attack
with strength 7. Which actually makes it worth
considering. But you would definitely
consider it as something as a mount instead of having it.
I don't know if I work to consider this, it would be on
his own. But what I wouldn't consider it
because of bounds monster is is just as bad as stupidity, and
you're going to have leadership 8, so it just might run off the
first round of combat. Of course, I believe we saw that
in one of my battles. Did we ever?
I want it didn't run off. It just didn't want to move to
turns, I believe. Yeah, exactly.
And that's, and that's why they made the book bound monster rule
because monsters was just too too strong to without it.
And if, if I were to to have mounted monster, there's no
reason to for it to be the war Hydra which cannot fly.
I would much rather have a Mobile Mount like save the
camera or the Griffin. Yeah or a dragon or Dark Pegasus
yet. Yeah, exactly.
So it wouldn't be my my pick. Now as you mentioned the dust
Pegasus that is a monster that differs from some of the other
rosters which is the only star girls have access to.
Only. I think that is the only thing
that it differs from is that it's called Dark Pegasus.
Yeah. Yeah.
But it was example, like both. They kind of include a pegasus.
No, no, no. And Pegasus aren't bound
monstered. So yea big and something that
rule. Yeah, so you can include them as
Heaven an additional unit of harpies to take out more war
machines. If you want, they are not very
good at it because Sue attacks are not gonna they might even
lose the combat. So yeah, so yeah, yeah.
That's I don't need a weapon skill three, they're not going
to win. Come back.
That's for sure. So they might try it and they
might lose it. So Yeah.
Okay what you would consider that?
For example characters. Yeah, as well.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. definitely having a a character with the I call them
new curse Hero on the pegasus with the either dark base of
death so we can fly down and kill an big unit of nights or
give him a part of bow. We'll really.
Really be potent against the armored units.
Yeah. And and and that's an inclusion
that I made in lots of lots of army lists.
The the darkness of death, being the eyes with water once per
combat, once per battle in a combat, as a start of combat,
you can deal D3 wounds to all models and base contact.
Yeah. Yeah, I have learning all my
saves but the distance. This is a fact, the Pegasus as
well. No, it doesn't know because it's
one, it's one model and it's a models in base contact.
The writer doesn't have his own, his own model size, so it
doesn't expected. Okay, and the hard work was
being explosion of death. Yeah, this being a little bit.
Risky given the driven off fact if he doesn't die during combat
in might just be driven off and then cut to Pieces by ranged
fire. Yeah, that's true.
But but still a very good choice for 25 points with you.
If you try to go down and yeah, but it's not even a meal or
yeah. And and if you charge a unit
where there's a lot and it's very, very rare that you are
You're either. You are doc.
Pegasus are you? A hero is not gonna die.
Yeah. Now, with the dwarves, we talked
about the Swarms as well. I was not a big fan of them,
because of that cost. Yeah, I was more interested in
using swarms four factions, like scaling or vampire counts.
People can factions. We can reduce the cost.
Yeah. Do you see any use of swarms?
No, not at all. Not at all adults. if when the
half price as they are for some armies, Some armies.
Have some of the Swarms at half points and that's actually worth
considering because I believe they swarms are unbreakable.
Yeah, but they're very weak. They have no saved.
They have very weak toughness so and they are not going to kill
anything, so they're just a waste of points, I think.
And they might also be a waste of points at 50 That's true.
And also they are all forced to be in the same unit.
You cannot have multiple often to use as blockers for example.
You can't. No, all swans must be gathered
into One Singular unit. Okay, I didn't know that. all
right, I think it's there any other monsters you would like to
discuss in particular concerning, but the only way you
can include a Character riding on a monster except for the
Dark. Pegasus is a.
When you play large battles? Yeah.
To the 2001 census is not gonna be enough, but then you have to
make the choice that you're not going to include.
You're a sorcerer and that's just not an a trade.
I would meet Okay. Okay.
Well, before we move on to special characters, I think we
should just go back and have a look at the characters for the
dark elf brush. Yeah.
But at first, I would like to ask you because I know you have
considered the toggle for Hydra a lot of times.
Yeah. What you think about including
that? As I'm, I think you might
disagree with me. I do feel like there's potential
in the war Hydra given a Very sturdy body but it is difficult
to figure out because it is a Gamble and it is expensive
gamble at 225 points with you. When you want to have the
leadership 8 concerning the pound monster rule but I do
consider that the the breath attack itself.
As long as along with the belief courses you don't.
Cause fear doesn't it or does it cause Terror it causes Terror?
Yeah, it causes Terror. Yeah.
So Tara and And a very strong breath attack with a decent
movement. Of course, it doesn't fly.
So I have considered several times but given that we do not
have a model for the time I have refrained from using it in our
matchups. Yeah though.
I would like to try it at some point because I do think it can
have value even at 225 points and the risk of compounds
monstrule because Even if it fails the baumanis rule, if
there's very low chance of the disappearing, maybe it doesn't
fly off. So there's always a chance of it
coming back. Yeah.
But of course if it does fail twice in a row like that in one
of our games you know you will not get it points cost and
points worth having a war Hydra to to support your main
regiment. Basically your main regiment
clashes With the Enemy. If you make it a defensive
coach, A unit. So the enemy has to get bogged
down in the fight with you, then you have a chance to sit there
first doing your breath attack and then furthermore doing some
flank charges with Terror, which is against either.
Yeah, could be worth the points cost.
Yeah. This is strength 7, breath
attack is quite powerful. Yeah, it definitely is very,
very much and it has toughness 60.
It's difficult for. The opponent to wear down the
wounds just to make the breath weaker.
Yeah and I think yeah I think it's a high-risk high-reward
kind of thing and if if you're lucky it I'm sure you're right.
And it will perform very well. The be when the issue is of
course with the breadth of text of these always when a model is
covered 50%. Or more than its a four, plus
two, hit it. And then you usually have the
wound up with most breath attacks.
Having a strength of around 45 meaning that you'll have ruined
on force or grease. Usually, mmm, but given us
strength, 7 breath attack, that makes it a lot easier to do
wounds. We discussed breath taxes.
Well, in the dwarf podcast, What we discussed the flame Cannon.
Yeah. What is quite expensive?
We the bonus that the flame Cannon has is that it anyone
caught with the 50% of all is automatically hit, making it
quite more powerful than other breath attacks.
Yeah, that's true. But I doubt that it's ever gonna
your opponent is ever gonna argue it in the range with
before he is taking care of it. Yeah exactly.
So sling can again you need to force for that to work.
You would need to force your opponent in as soon as possible
and given that you've already spent you gonna need the ruin of
reforging on the flame Cannon because you don't want to blow
up because he'll kill all your own units.
But you would need to have a superior range fire.
And you've already spent 140 Old points on the flame Cannon.
Hmm, making it quite difficult to work but I am I am looking
forward to trying, I think it would trying out in my next
match against Joshua here on Sunday.
Okay? Yes, I will see how that goes.
Yeah, Definitely, yeah. Yeah.
Should we move on to the characters?
Yeah, let's go through the characters fairly quickly.
So we can move on to these special characters upwards.
Yeah. But as we mentioned in the
beginning of the podcast, we've skipped the characters because
they are more considered as support for the various
regiments, that you have not exactly unless you use them as
new colors or perhaps very strong spell.
Casters They're generally used to support the rest of the army,
rather than being a force of their own.
Yeah. So, let's begin with the, the
general. Yeah.
Unfortunately, you have to include him, I would love to see
different options for the dog of army because he's just so
expensive. And they all the the stats
additional steps that he has compared to a, human General
isn't worth 60 points, he's cost, 60 points more than a
human General. Yeah, and he basically gets one
extra move one. His weapon skilled.
When I strip realistic skill all the week stats.
Yeah. All the weeks that sing and
create one. Yeah, it does get the leadership
10. Yeah, but does yeah, it's it's
it's not worth it. It's and you General has a very,
very high cost and that means that you have very little points
for other stuff. So I always make my general very
cheap. And with items not giving him
over the top cost for items. I don't think it's possible to
make strong killer General as an as an elf.
The only option for that in my opinion is, Putting execution
acts on him and that might be pretty good with a banner of
Might. Most people don't know that the
Executioner axe. Was changed in white dwarf.
I believe it's number 222 and so it's a 62 wound and not to hit
because it was insane. And then it's also dark elf,
only item, but that might be a very good way to make your
general, being able to kill something.
Because even though that the the execution attacks, doesn't road
that 62 wound It's still ignores all armor saves and gives him
two additional strength. But he strikes last so you need
to protect him. So in order for that, I will
give him a fortune and black amulet.
So he has to wall safes, so he can survive and kill the enemy.
But that's an expensive General and that's gonna cost a lot.
And and as we already discussed at the beginning of this
podcast, with else in particular, you have to be very
very Choosy about what would you spend your points on?
Yeah, I agree very much. So if you put a lot of points
into your general, you're not gonna have points for a Hero.
Other stuff because you always want to have the biggest
sorcerer that you can can can muster.
I think Yeah. Yeah.
Given the strength of dark magic.
Yeah. In general.
Yeah, but their stats of of an Elven Lord is just not enough to
kill anything and there's no items that you can.
Argue that is gonna make him become any any good except for
the Executioner, XO. So normally I think I would, I
wouldn't even give him a magic weapon, maybe flail of skulls,
but I don't know. I just think I will give him an
help, her do something like that, and then just give him
very cheap, defensive items. Maybe give him a ruby.
Chalice to make my, which shelves.
A little bit more protected something like that.
Could It's definitely a tactic. I've considered as well for the
given the which L some extra defense and basically making me
more intimidating unit because they're harder to hit and if you
know in the include or cauldron of blood as well, then you have
a unit that's harder to hit and has a 6 plus water safe.
Yeah so that is definitely something worth considering for
the if you're going to go on with your family.
Yeah. And as you might be able to hear
from this, it's it's difficult finding a good use for your
doggles, general way. He's just not a character that
doesn't do anything. So it's all it was always as a
kid a problem for me, to to decide.
What am I going to use my general for?
And it still is today, I've yeah, it's very hard and you,
you have to include him. So you he has to Do something.
And yeah, the mentioned options. Are pretty much what I what I
think he's able to. Now, if you were to make and
with the execution Alex would you put him in a unit or would
you stick them on a pegasus now if on I would well it depends on
what I'm facing but I think I will put him in a unit because
otherwise it's just too easily. Yeah.
The taken care of and their parent.
I wouldn't die before. I wouldn't put him on a pigasus
because then he just gets stranded somewhere because the
biggest is really, really easy to.
It's really squishy. So yeah.
So would put him something stronger monster in a bit big
battle or put him in a cold one. Regiment.
That might be a terrifying, regiment actually.
Yeah. But but with Executioner's axe,
I Always have been of Might with him because otherwise used just
not gonna get there enough changes of that six.
Yeah, that makes sense. And there's not really any way
in order to give them. Frenzy in essence, it would be
nice to have the option of getting a witch elf, general, or
maybe even using your sorcerer as your channel.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
But all right, well, let's move on here to the now.
Is there any situation where you would include a dark elf battle,
standard-bearer know. Nope, people leave a lever.
A few. Yeah, people people that include
bad. Less than that.
I think they include them because they like the idea of
having a Army standard for the better for their army and they
have a cool model for it or something like that because they
are never good. The only bad less than that.
That's worth including is the ones that has more wounds than
one. You know, you almost 100 for
this model for the for one wound and toughness three.
It's just going to be sniped easily with the, with a spell or
killed before you can use. The banner of that that you have
on it so, you know, I would never never waste my points on
it. So you use it and perhaps
consider it with either Undead or vampire counts or Eastman, or
or listening Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of those can can include it
and also I think there's also a rare window workers can use it
gasps Warriors because they're balanced and that has two wounds
and more toughness but yeah. And there was no never be a
situation where you can see that the absolute desperate need for
a second Banner in a unit. No.
And and that could be nice to have two banners in a unit of
course, but but you have a battle standard is going to get
killed by a regular army or regular regular Trooper facing
their so and then you're going to be sad this.
Yeah. So you just like what 200
points? Yeah if you give him the small
Banner that's just 220 125. But yeah, it's yeah, I would
never do it. All right, the let's go on to
the next Monday. Dark elf Heroes.
We have two different choices first off.
That's the regular dark elf. Yep.
Very expensive, as with the general and very hard to fit in
and and it's not good enough on its own.
The one exception is that we talked about building a new Co
yeah. And and the only reason that
that's good is because It's it hero can have two items so you
can put heart of oh and and charm Shield or potion of
strength on him. And then he can do a lot of
damage and but I don't I think it's very rarely in it.
The Dark Elf Army that you even get to include a new career or
that I would never include a hero in the dark elf just in the
regiment. No, no basically.
I'm costing Four Points more than a human general costs.
Yeah. Yeah.
Now the which shelf here is a little different.
Yeah. it cost more, but it's definitely worth the points
because It has three more tax and it has one more strength
because it has poison person has weapons.
So, it's a killing machine. It's very, very strong.
Six attacks at drain pipe and 5 or Even strength, six with
inhale bird. And yeah, it's very good.
Yeah. The problem is is that it's
expensive and it's if it if it gets killed before even able to
do damage then it's worthless. So you need to protect it.
And I talked about one good way is to give it sort of switch
sling. So it attacks quickly and also
protects your regiment if you get charged.
But very big downsize is that you lose.
The poisonous strength. Yeah.
Otherwise you're gonna you're gonna need to invest in a in a
protective item like a jade amulet or something like that.
And then a magic weapon flail of skulls and which you'll hear oh
very very efficient very and killed a lot of stuff.
Now would you always make it a war?
Save on this? I would you consider something
like I'm of meteoric iron with the 2 plus, I'm safe.
Yeah, in rare cases, I could consider that but if you cannot
use our meteor again with flail of skulls because I'm of meteor
guide includes a shield and flail skulls is two-handed item.
As you know you would you have to do it with swift length, for
example. Yeah.
But yeah, and so in some cases. But but in most cases, I find
Jade amulet soupy better because it's a war save and I only need
that one turn. Hey, if my my virtual here who
has played of skulls, he's going to kill my enemy if he survives
Yeah, we already mentioned it in the of podcast, the Jade amulet
when discussing the potential different rooms and their saves.
Yeah. Jade amulet is very, very good
item 45 points. Very good.
Yeah. So, all right, let's move on
quickly to the the dark elf Champions.
Yeah. Again, we have the regular ones
and the which shelf, yeah. The regular one is useless, I
think. Yeah, it might be worth it in a
cold one regimen, but I don't think so.
Anyway. For the reason to include a
champion normally is to include that they're black.
Jim of now, which all of you of the listeners who are not
including black, Jim of mass start doing that unless you
agree with your opponent, that, that item is banned because
that's just such a good item. And it's for me, it's also
include And that's yeah, we face each other's for black gems
quite off. Yeah.
You know, games and it's a very, very good item, like Jim of now
for the balance of Warhammer because without it, it's going
to be the hero Hammer is gonna be tenfold because you have no
way of protecting your general from dying too strongly.
Build chaos, Lord. Flying in on a discus making.
challenge or something like that, or, or big monster or I
don't know. So that's a very good item and
that's mostly the used for Champions and in my opinion, but
there's no reason to give the black care of not to attach a
toggle champion, because we can give it to an assassin for a few
more points. And then it's concealed, I
cannot be sniped by Magic and stuff like that.
M, which is much more better. And of course, the which health
Champion being a little bit more expensive than Target Champion.
But having the same bonuses as the, which shelf, hero doubling
his attacks frenzy and extra strength from The Poisoned.
Yeah, weapons and it's very, very, very strong.
Five attacks at strength, five with additional hand weapons.
Very, very good. And the problem with it is that
you need to charge, if you're not going to charge, then it's
going to die before acting. It can only have one item.
So and that's not that's really not much point in giving a
expensive defensive items to a champion, but you can give it
Jade amulet and you can have a Which you'll Champion but you
need to be the one charging. That's my point where the hero
is a little bit more resilient because it has more chocolate
has an additional wound. Yeah.
But strong if it charges, definitely.
And, and it earns his, it worth in most cases.
I think you have fairly quickly with the especially if you're
using the two Hand weapons, they need as the seven attacks at
strength 5 which is quite quite gruesome for any unit.
Yeah. The hero has yeah, yeah.
And, and, of course, the champion also has seven attacks
with a, with a cold one. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. I meant five types of course,
with the champion. Yeah, so yeah.
Definitely a big for your which shelf if you can't invest in
which shelf unit for larger size.
Yeah. All right, the second to last
character in the roster is the dark elf sorceress?
Yeah. And dark magic is very, very
strong. Especially if you get total
power, then you can win the game with the those with the
municipal black horror, for instance.
And yeah, research, we saw that in the matchup, I have with
chaos against exactly against dwarfs, just ruin the day of the
dwarf king of Joshua's dwarves. And what I did a lot when I was
a kid with a, I also gave my Sorcerer cloak of mist and
shadows so he could he could run up right beside the hole.
The whole Army I was facing and then cast and Isabel black, or
0, total power. Through the whole Army from the
side. And I think I did that to a
piece Minami once and the unturned to half of his army was
dead to a nation of this and this pulls black horror.
Yeah, it's very powerful spell and that was one of the few
games that I want as a kid. So another thing that I forgot
during my game with Joshua is that wielders of dark magic able
to use their dispelled wins and magic cards as Power Cards.
Come again. The the winter magic dispel cars
can be used as power cards. Instead of, yeah, that's
something I forgot to in the game.
Oh yes, I can actually have done even more magic against his
forces. Yeah.
That's that's also, very, very good in all of the reason why
dark magic is a very potent School of magic.
Yeah. And Yeah, yeah.
And I would always take the biggest sorcerer that I can
afford and I would use this is where I would use my character
points. And went over, there are going
to find worth. And yet a good option is giving
him, cloak of mist and shadows sometimes.
Also you need a war save. That's so never a bad idea and
You need to have one or two, this pool, Scrolls, and every
Army. I think that's a, that's a rule
of thumb that I have never leave home without it.
This bull scroll and for those of you listening that don't
include this bull scroll, at least one in each Army.
Start doing that as well because they always come in handy.
Yeah, it's better to have one not need one than to need one
and not have one. Yeah.
Italy, and even, even with the The book of secret that was
changed in white dwarf, 222. I would still consider using it
together with the cloak of mist and shadows.
It's a, it's very fun to have a character where that gets weaker
and weaker because it does powerful stuff.
Basically, what it does is, Each time you get to cast spells for
free, but each time you do you lose their D6 stats and what was
changed in the white dwarf is that it's your opponent chooses
with which that's it is, but he can, your opponent cannot reduce
any of your stats, 20 or take start taking your wounds until
there's no other options. So you cannot get killed, but
it's a risky move because if you're poor, if your opponent
reduces You just ship and there's come, there's a terror
or toughness or toughness. Yeah.
Then Yeah, you are Soldier is getting very weak but I believe
that the payoff can be very very good for all those expensive
dark magic spells that you can get off.
And now there's one thing. When we play our games, we have
actually decided to remove the option to choose sorcerer loads
little, for wizards for, basically, every faction that's
what allows rules. Yeah.
Yeah, that was one of our house rules in this was to reduce the
powerfulness of magic because it with a social load, you can do
the whole hero Hammer to them to the full full extent because
they are extremely powerful. Just in almost every faction.
Yeah, especially if you are killing yourself a book of
azure, then you can basically choose your school of magic at
will making any faction able to get some very, very strong
Costas. Yeah, just keep in mind that
book of assure. Justin doesn't make the Caster
into the give the this given. No they just you two lately.
Do you have to change the so you don't give you don't get the
dark magic ability to use this spell Scrolls?
No, sir. You just you just spills at
Bianca. But still very powerful unit.
And also, by this choice, we also reducing the number of
spells, meaning, there's less chance of you getting the really
good ones included in each School of magic.
Yeah, so that's one of our house with we've been playing with ya.
And it also allows us to deploy more troops in smaller battles.
Yes, exactly. Now shall we just move on
quickly to the Dark of the session and then we'll take a
short recess because we're approaching 2 hours.
Yeah, definitely. And then will, you won't see
much of a difference. We will take a short 5 to 10
minute break and then we'll continue with the special
characters, and then some items. So, let's, let's do the dark elf
assassin. I know this is one of your
favorite pics for characters. Yeah, it's a, I think it's a
very strong and most most armies are all to include this, not
always, but that's because of lack of points.
But the dog over assassin is very good, especially for the
use for black Jim. So, basically, compared to all
the armies that have have to have a champion with black gym
to protect with, can be taken out by various items or spills.
The dog, you love, cannot get removed that black gem because
the Assassin is concealed and cannot be targeted until
revealed. So that's very, very good and
very strong. The if you were to consider or
play a format where you wouldn't bring black Jim of.
Now, I think I still think that the dog is our guilt assassin
is. It's a Worthy.
Inclusion. It's not strong enough to kill
Lord's but it's strong enough to kill the smaller characters with
two wounds I believe. So it's so it's also a good.
A good inclusion for a fighting sniping unit.
Yeah, definitely. And of course with this is
aspect the one who's special characters, we will be moving on
to later, but of course there is also a great unit to have a
heart of go on to do a bit of a sudden damage as your enemy
charges in. So great way to suddenly turn
the tables on the enemy as these dark out for sessions with some
kind of nuking item. Yeah, but out of always also
going to hit your own The troops, are you?
Yeah, which is but since dargah Force Essence, also can hide in
scalps. Yes, makes them quite more
useful as well. Yeah.
Now, have you ever considered a dark maze of death from the
side? No, I think it's too expensive,
darkness of death, only works on the models that are in in
contact, so that's why it's better on.
If you have a loss large base, I got a monster or something.
And Maze of Death is not really, really strong to kill
characters. At least not Lord characters
because it's only the three wounds and I can see your point
in in that the assessment might deliver.
The last wounds needed. But then, he only has two
attacks to attack with if you uses dark maze first, because
you cannot switch right away to additional hand weapons.
Yeah. I'd be thinking very gonna be
hitting three models of the enemies.
Yeah, I think it's too expensive to put on and it also damages
your Your own I don't know. Does it damage is all models in
basically? Yeah actually if you if it's not
in a skirmish unit it will hit you.
Oh yeah so yeah now it's too that's too expensive but but
heart of all in Skirmish. Yeah, worthy consideration.
And of course, the black gem as well.
I do recall our last game with Orcs and goblins versus Dark
Elves, where I decided to charge my giant into some Scouts and
out came an assessment of the black German trapped in there
for what was it, two times. Yeah.
But it was also very unlucky that that was a The Scout units
that I marked for for having my assassins.
Yeah, instead of having the way I was, well, Mark for your
sessions, it wasn't the one with your Shadow Blade because that
might have killed my giant out, right?
Yet, Perhaps, but that's me. People don't really know that.
It's a bit of a, an order character.
So you can include this, you don't have to write the before
battle, which unit is included in.
But before battle, you need to make a note on where it is.
So you cannot just say, well, it's wherever I want it to be,
so I need to make a note before the battle that this assassin.
Is here, but you but in a tournament you can Sasson.
Can be put different places as needed.
As long as you noted before battle.
Of course, this is a tactic that's also usable for the
skaven Assassins. We saw in the last game, with
the skaven against Orcs and goblins.
Yeah. Joshua played against believe
was Andreas. Yeah.
And welcome back to The Chronic man podcast.
We had to continue the second part of our Dark Elves, Army
lists and the tactics behind each unit and cost value.
Now when we left off, we were talking about the characters and
now we're going to move on to these special characters List
and then final note on the magic items related to the Dark Elf
Army lists before we close off for today.
So let's have a look here. we were in the introduced here and
the first character list that first character on the special
character list is, of course, the witch-king of Megara Yep.
Now, he is the only way to currently, in the fifth edition,
get a chariot with the dark elves.
But is it worth it? Nope, it's not and various
reasons for that. He's very expensive.
He has a very good stat line, strength 5/12 softness, five and
four wounds and his the general. And he's a sorcerer.
So, Yeah, that's very good but very expensive and he has items
that are pretty expensive as well.
And a lot of them are not very good.
So let's start by going through the various items that he has,
and why you don't consider them good.
We can you have to take the discussion from there.
Yep. So we start with the the circle
of iron. Yeah.
Now this provides one point of magical energy, much like the
power car in each magic face even in the enemies magic phase.
I can also be used as a dispatcher car.
Yeah, this is a fine item, but I think that is, it's not worth 50
points, but it's not a bad item, but but it should be a little
bit cheaper. I think, and all the items are
over costly, I think. Yeah.
Also given that the dark magic way wielders already have the
ability to use this spell Scrolls as dispel wins and magic
cards as as power cost. Instead, it seems a little bit
redundant to have these circular to violence as well.
Yeah, I wouldn't say that. I think more More ways to cast,
magic is always good. Okay, yeah, but but not not
worth 250 points. You have to spend on it know if
it was the were the only item that was over pricey.
I would accept it. Okay.
The next item on his list is the which Kings armor.
Yeah, now this is a three plus, I'm safe.
Andre, I might want to hit four enemies with both hand and use
the weapons. Yeah.
And that is pretty good that again, to way too expensive, I
think. And the problem is that, the
witch-king doesn't have a water safe.
So anything that ignores armor, safe is gonna hurt him.
And with such a strong, such an expensive model, he's gonna get
targeted a lot. Yeah.
You're going to put so many eggs in one basket with the wind
picking the witch-king. And and for that, I think you
need a wall safe. And and this armor is not going
to cut it. Even with him Henry, having
tough in the 5 and 4 wounds. Yeah, I totally agree on this
point. Here is just considering that he
doesn't have water if he is way too expensive.
Even if he is a level for social Lord and has additional casting
magic and The Chariot to do. The course that makes him a
large Target, making it easier to hit with with ranged kind of
negating. The - hit role that they receive
from he which King Solomon. Yeah.
And again, the those cold ones, it doesn't say in the special
rules but they are stupid. I've checked that Enzymes and
they are stupid. So you need to check with him of
course. And if he fails to pity he
cannot cast bills. But he is immune to psychology.
Which is negates the stupidity. Given that is one model.
Yeah. But it but it doesn't.
They need to check for for stupidity.
Well, the whole model is in the whole unit is model and and he's
immune to psychology. So what we assume that they are
also means I called you because of him.
Yeah, that would make sense. But I'm pretty sure I have asked
a lot of different people about this in the time.
And I have also asked, you're going about it and he also
agrees that they are still subject to Cepeda.
T yogin being a player, we know from the hero, warm of forum on
Facebook, who has played a lot of tournaments in his adult life
as well, in my opinion. He's a expert in in ruling of
Warhammer 50 Edition and it's the go to wear whenever I'm in
and out of something. But but that, but then he would,
he would still be able to cast magic though, because he would
not be affected by stupidity. Yeah, I think.
Yeah, I think you're right about that and he may not be able to
move. Yeah, which is a bit silly but
yeah, I'm not sure that about it. but I think, I I think I
asked him about that as well, and I think I asked if various
other people. Yeah, I'm not sure about it.
If you have any, if anybody knows the exact hula, how The
witch-king Works in 4th and 5th edition with his cold ones,
please feel free to post it on the ground command podcast form.
Yeah, that wouldn't be very good.
Yeah. Now, Move on to his next item.
This spell shield. Yeah.
And I would also say that I don't think Him being stupid or
not, or he's cold ones being stupid or not.
It doesn't change the way. I think he's still the idea of
stupidity is just a secondary reason.
Why not to pick the witch-king here?
Yeah, the only reason I would see picking him is because the
models looks amazing and he is the witch-king itself.
So he has Pretty cool goal as well.
But besides that, you are probably going to be very sad
when he just gets light by rains fire or by magic or a character
killer. Yeah, he's not going to get
sniped to range fire though. He's Chariot and cold.
One might. But yeah, but he might lose to
automatic or it to a gentle character with, for example, Art
of War, something similar? Yeah.
Now, this spell shield as well, not really that impressive.
Is unsafe, goes down to a goes, what goes up to a 2 plus, but
still it's only arm safe. It does have a 4 plus, d spell.
But again, it's a 50/50 chance to be able to save your main
character from Magic, so, still vulnerable to moogers.
Yeah, and if the Spells you'll is not a good item.
It's a It's way too pricey, you can get a 4 plus this.
Bill from that fire amulet which is half price and and I would
much rather have it. This will scroll even though
they did can only be used once, it's I'm not going to leave my
model. That's this expensive to the
chance of Yeah. Yeah, that's Bill.
Getting through that. Kills him now is next item.
The Destroyer that would be a lot more interesting is if you
had the rule of always striking first, because that would be
able to save him from A nucleus as well.
Yeah, that that's true, but but other than flying nuke is a,
he's going to charge a lot of the time and if he gets the
which flight like that, apply a dark magic spell, then he's
going to charge with his whole cherry and everything into
wherever he wants. Yeah, so there is some sense to,
I mean, the destroy itself. I mean Hannah, That's again,
it's a four plus two to take away the power of the heart of.
Whoa. Now it's not it's four plus four
for each hit and then it's then it's randomized for for the item
that big ship which would in some cases be more.
So Probably you would never give out of all to a character that
can wield more than two items. So it would be a 250 50s to
yeah. To get to stop your general from
dying. Yeah.
So very low chance.
Indeed actually but but Destroyer has other users as
well and it's a I think it's a very good sword weapon, I think
maybe I would include this more often in larger battles because
it's so expensive. I think it's too expensive.
In most cases for 2004, Tommy. It's a little over the top, but
it launcher, it might be good. And keep in mind that the item
that he steals, he can use himself.
He can only use one. At that time but he can pick if
if he steals another if he wants to swap that out.
So you can steal a very big item and use it against the enemy or
steal a war save and then he's safe, then he has his own Ward
safe and the any who doesn't have one.
So it's a good one but if we look at it he has four attacks
is on a character, he's probably going to hit on four plus So two
of them is going to hit, one is going to steal an item or a
spill, it's horrible. If you fighting a character who
also has bills like a vampire because then this you might also
get this bill and yes, yes. We might just steal one of their
powers. Instead of course, the vampire
will not be having a new key item, but will still be able to
negate. His regular armor safe.
Yeah, yeah, I moved past the talking about nuking items.
If that was unclear. Yeah, it's fine.
So I figured as much when you start talking about vampires,
they can't buy it. I'll give a hard blow to my
vampire. Lord and sending in to die.
Yeah, it's okay. If he has cast iron ring and
repeat appears. But yeah, that's another thing.
Yeah. That's another story.
Yeah, but destroyers, pretty good.
Yeah. but it's very expensive and and it's very random and it
It might do wonders and it might do nothing at all.
Yeah, so very expensive items and combined with all the items
are too expensive for my liking. and, So, I think that should, he
should at least be 100 points cheaper for me to even consider
him. Okay.
But yeah, I'll even even then I wouldn't consider him without a
word save I think. Yeah, that makes sense for Are
you having some problem with the sound?
How is it now? Yeah, it's fine.
So it's not know you having problems again.
What's going on, is it moi's? It's yeah, it's a sounds like
you're moving your microphone around. maybe judge can edit it
out if we just gonna Pick up where we left and take five
again. Break here is fine.
It's working again. It was just interesting.
Go by his jacket is still noise. You're hearing.
Okay, let's, let's continue. Yep, the witch-king.
Yeah, we'll talk about the witch-king and him needing a
ward. Safe.
Him needing Awards yet. Exactly.
So, so, he's quite the high risk, but your iriscan, but,
yeah, but you can compensate. If you have enough character
points in a large army, you can include a lot of this bill
Scrolls like two or three to make him safe from Magic then at
East it's he's not it's not going to be sniped by Magic
because the spell shield is Not Enough by at all.
It's not say no. Yeah.
You really want him, you can use him but I think They are way
better. Ways to spend a choke points.
Yeah, the other thing is that he's only immune to psychology,
which means he can be broken by combat result.
Yeah. I'll buy a unit with the banner
of defiance or maybe a charge from some Cavalry, especially
Eldon Cavalry with movement of 9, would be able to get to him
before he gets to them and if they focus their attacks in the
cold ones, not a cute. Though, whatnot.
If you which flights. Now, if he Which flies, of
course, but then they have available for you, Matt.
There's a good chance you could get it.
What is it? Yeah, it's a it's a fairly
decent job but not what. Great, get which like know,
getting which light is an amazing spell, which came.
Yeah, it's it. Yeah, it's really, really good
for me. But if he had the ability to
choose his spells, for example, he would definitely be worth his
current post kinda point because yeah, juicing spills is huge.
Yeah, definitely something why Nick.
Magic magic is also considered a very strong.
Yeah. And then of course he causes
fear. Which means it's everybody has a
ticket. Most people have to take a test
in order to be able to charge them.
And some will end up hitting on sixes.
So he does have some defenses, but he's still very vulnerable
without a direct water safe. I guess the if you charges a
unit of rank-and-file troops that have been identified as the
black cherry, it does help him have a chance to win that combat
with the site, the wheels. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, and mainly be considered for an army of more
than 2,000 points. Yeah, I would say say and not a
lot of tactical Choice, otherwise it would be a very
huge gamble. Yeah, but still, I'm not saying
that it might knock do pay off sometimes, but But when, when
he, when he works, it's I think it will mostly come down to your
opponent. Not there, having a good answer
for him, which I think most armies will have.
Okay, yeah. Well, let's move on to the next
special character. The Beast load rack off of
current car He say Dugout Hero on riding on the back of a black
dragon. Yeah, yeah.
So I don't see a reason for him at all.
He has good items. The wave of Agony is not a good
item. Put the other two items are
pretty good. He has a war to save and he has
a good save, but he's a week hero that cannot do anything by
himself. Then he's on a dragon, but it's
a small dragon. And so, this is a very
expensive. Yeah, it's a very I think you
can you can make it better stronger.
General on a, on a dragon. For the same.
You must yeah, yeah. It seems like the main usage for
him. If you go fighting other armies
with unmounted monsters because they're the peace, Lord effect
can be pretty devastating to the enemy there.
It can also work even though they're mounted, only the
amount, the amount of character is dead.
Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. You need to kill the ride of a
Vortex. Yeah, Alex.
Yeah. So is it really is based very
Niche. Yeah, basically worthless.
So yeah, not gonna include him. I'm yet this actually see what
he looked like. I don't think I've seen in any
addition. I believe anybody has any
pictures of the the bezel of raqqa, feel free to share them
on the crown command podcast. It was a it was the it was he
was the one writing the black dragon in model that was sold in
the fifth edition of doggles. I don't remember that model.
Maybe, I've seen you, but I'm remembered.
You can Google it. It's a fairly easy.
Yeah, let's move on to the next one.
The Marathi. There Haxorus.
Yep. Now Marathi is fairly well
known. Being a mother to the
witch-king. But what do we think about her
choice of items? Yeah, the good thing is that the
cheap items. Yeah.
But Dark Sword is useless because she's you're not gonna
get put her In Harm's Way. Anyway, so yeah, Amber amulet is
It's good enough now. But yeah, it's a waste of an
item slot. I would say, power scroll, and
this bull scroll very good Dark Pegasus fine, but she doesn't
have a wall safe. so, she's very Very easy to pick off as well.
Would you consider her for the chance to get use / spells?
I use exposure Nashville's in a dark elf, Army lately.
And only lately, I've started to like the Lanisha Tech more than
the dark magic deck. So that's a good thing but I got
no I wouldn't pay that pay that much for a sorcerer without a
warrant. They just to be able to pick /
Wells. Yeah, she does seem like quite
the risk. Yes.
But again, very well-known character in the law.
So, of course, if you have the character, why not give it a
whirl, but also just always bear in mind that character without a
war. Say needs to be protected to the
utmost and every move you make and decision is you make, during
the Battle of will have to take into account that she could die
anytime. And also, I don't like as such
an expensive. Peace, being mounted on the dock
Pegasus because the dock Pegasus is easily snipe.
And then she's stranded and cannot get very far, and if it's
skills to flying up high with glancing strike, then he's just
gonna die as well. It does have the for wounds but
still. Yes, I totally agree with you.
It's it's a very high-risk gamble to include her when you
could just bring a regular sorcerer Lord and give them a
ward safe and perhaps the club of mr.
Shadows, as you mentioned earlier, the regular sorcerer
that you're going to build with four items is going to be so
much better than her. So yeah, I would never use them.
I'm sure that we are. Some some of our listeners
saying no. No.
That's what was my favorite character?
Especially also with but it is our tendency toward special
characters that unless they have a warranty.
We consider them way too expensive for that cost and you
will be experienced this quite a few times during our.
There are some that we make exceptions for because of their
abilities, but most of the time we do consider the special
characters to be wanting award safe for them to justify their
cost. Let's go on to the the next
character, Quran captain of The Black Guard and this is a very
very strange character indeed. It's sort of like A hero that
forces you to use the blackguard of neither of which we already
went through, being one of the less cost effective units, you
can get for the dark elves and then you have to include a unit
of the black garden, a growth in order to include a, just a
regular hero with a couple of standard items.
Yeah. And those items are not going to
make him with his cursed no. No.
I mean it doesn't even he has a 2 plus a safe of course but he
doesn't have a word saved and he only has plus one to hit, but he
only has 3 attacks over here is 4 because it says that he can
use, both normal sword and the blade, but yeah.
But then he kind of used to shield from the arm of the
Oregon which is very rare you Weird.
Yes, we basically answer 3 plus honestly.
No, because that's not how I'm of meteoric, Iron Works.
Yeah. I don't know.
But then they never made a an update of the the dark elf list.
So this is still fourth edition doubt Target list.
Yeah, but basically you cannot the arm of meet your guy and
doesn't work without the shield. You cannot just cut it and say
that's one less, that's not how it works.
So I don't know how he would work.
Yes. Because it's, it's Definitely
spelled different than it is in the the magic book of fourth
edition and the is fourth edition Dark Elf Army.
It says it's just as if you were wearing a heavy armor carrying a
shield and riding upon steeled. However, carrying a shield and
writing a steed will not improve the further improve this arm
saving. Yeah.
So saving through. So he's armor Meteora guy and
he's actually better than the one in in the magic book.
Well, yes and no because he can use it while using two weapons.
But he cannot improve to A1 Plus by being mounted.
Nobody is not mounted. So yeah.
Yeah. With this, this is one of the
those things that will there's no reason to really look it up
or or consult people about it because he's not good.
Anyways. No, you do not want to include
the black garment bag. When they look great great
models but they are not tactically sound exactly yeah
let's move on to the the hair Queen groan hey LeBron and she's
the believe the only character in the game able to wield dual
wield magic weapons. And I don't know if there are
others that can but yeah she has but one that isn't very good.
Another. Yeah, it's good.
But yeah, yeah and of course the the one of her attacks we to
when Hugo's frenzy is not resolved, the strength of 10.
Yes. Yeah yeah, yeah, that's right.
So she has eight attacks with certain strength 10 and 1 at
strength or she has a Yes. Yes, one of strength, four and
eight at strength, that's correct.
Yeah, and of course, she's riding a manticore, which means
let's see the next. We have a special rule for that.
It does not know. So so she will have to do the
bound monster test even while mounted on the Manticore.
Yeah. And she does not have a wart
save ya, very much intend useless.
I think get the sea Plus from the culture and blood though.
Yeah, yeah. And she has 12 attacks with cold
water as well. Yeah.
Whatever will be maximum of 10. Given that these cats cannot go
above that. I don't know about that.
Actually, it's only the following special rules.
So she's only frenzy and has the two magic swords.
He doesn't get the award save know that she get the triple
attacks. so that makes her, I think you would he would do to
get the power from the cold run and yeah, I think she would but
and I don't think there's a there's any rule that says that
you cannot have 12 attacks due to Frenzy I'm pretty sure that
the that I remember demon princes have been 11 attacks
with the this Axe and the whip on element, that's just the base
lines that they cannot go above 10, okay?
At least that how I think it is but all this yeah is doesn't
change that you have a character without a war safe with It's too
bad items and mounted on the main speaker that just might fly
off with your character, wait till a lot of.
Yeah. Way too many points to invest in
a character and not not good enough.
No Ward say, no armor say, so really not very tactical choice
to include her in your army, know.
And I think, I think you can make Bitter.
If you take a which'll hero and mounted on my Chimera and give
her a proper items, I think it will be, it will strike harder.
And yeah, Yeah, I think you can you can make it better yourself
if you really really want that effect.
Yeah, that I actually agree on this one.
I don't, I've been wanting to try or out to just because I
think it would be a cool about a field and I like the idea of two
magic swords, but there's no way she would keep back.
I think you have to be extremely lucky in this gamble for to be
successful and be worth the points.
You spend on this character suddenly flying off at some
point. So go on to the next character.
That's the leader of the Hagen of execution has the colorist of
Hagen death. And of course he's a hero but
you need to include a regiment of Harnett ish cuteness to use
them. Yeah.
He has some fairly expensive items but they're not too shabby
come but again, why not just build your general in the same
manner and get him an extra item and and a skip, the whole
process of including the hawk in a thick situations.
Yeah, if you ever were to include them, I don't think you
would include him either. He has improved strength and
toughness, which is very good, but The Executioner's axe with
three attacks. Is just not very good.
No. It's a very, very small chance
of him. Actually beheading someone of
course, he still gets the D3 rooms that The Executioner's.
Also do yeah. But again, but he still want to
attack three attacks. Oh yeah.
With So one and a half is going to hit.
He's gonna, if he doesn't behead, then he's gonna wound
with there. With most of it.
And then there's a wall safe that takes half of it.
So, Yeah, he might actually kill something, you might actually
kill a lot of characters. Because he also does D3 wounds.
Yeah, yeah. He's not, he's not bad.
Maybe maybe you could. You would take him if you were
to include The Executioner's, but I wouldn't make it include
Executioner's at all. That will be a very nice choice.
Yeah, and I wouldn't include them just to have him.
No, no, he's not that good. No, but if you were to glue
them, you would you would probably consider Congress as a
as a hero Choice with them. Yeah.
Now let's move on to the last character.
I believe a special character. Yeah.
And this one is quite different in in tactical skill.
Compared to the other ones. This is the Shadow Blade master
of Assassins. Now, not only is he Yes, a few
more tax and wounds, but he's also using some pretty neat
combo of items. I'll leave it to you to describe
the Shadow Blade because I know you're quite fond of using him.
This was my favorite character when when I was a kid.
Yeah, I always brought him and I still include him today.
A lot, he's very, very good. Snipes characters here and
there. And, and with his items, he only
cost a 150 points and he will always perform the only thing
that can shut him down if black Jam of now.
But if, if you have a one expensive character, that's not
protected by black Gem of nah, he's just gonna get easily get
there. And the one thing you can do is
Either you take the Gamble and put him in the enemies regiment
and then he's discovered differently compared to how hard
it is for him to conceal himself.
There's a chart below but if you feel like that's too risky
because I probably wouldn't do it unless it was a was only
discovered on a one and then you can put him in a style Scout
regiment and When you charge in with them, then you can reveal
that he's there and then he can take care of a almost any
character. He might not kill care, the
character with his for attacks and the D3 wounds, he might, but
he might not. And if it doesn't, then would
you just hope that he, he dies and explodes and then kills?
a lot of the regiment plus the characters, so he can It's very
rarely he doesn't own his worth and it is very good inclusion.
And the fact that he can hide in this cow tissue mention also
makes it easier for him to get to the targets that he want to
get to. So basically, in the deployment
say, is Phase, you can wait to deploy the scouts after
everything else deployed, you get them in the correct
position. So your closest to the
character, you would like to see.
And then you can unleash in once you get close enough, and he's
usually quite the sight to see him.
So you spring out and go, oh, what I do here.
It's a, we've had quite a few encounters with said of labia
earning his worth, and sometimes being stopped just in the last
minute, by a collection, but definitely a special character
worth with his points. Perhaps even more than his cost
is. Yeah, he has killed a lot of
fourth level Wizards in my, yeah.
And this is definitely one of those special characters than
that, that are worth considering and he could be almost an auto
include. It depends would say in every
game. Yeah, but it depends on if you
have the points, even though he's Jeep, you still need to
have the character points for him because I wouldn't
sacrifice, I wouldn't say sacrifice this sorcerer for him
and I and If if you do the math then you need that you need a
general and you make him as cheap as possible and then you
need a good Sorcerer And you put a lot of points into him and
then you take the Masters Essence, but it's going to be
close. If you have the points for
those, at least, it will in, in smaller battles.
Yeah, so I mean you should probably be able to fit all of
them in a 2000 point, but I doubt you, you'll be able to fit
anything more than that. Yeah.
So definitely something worth considering every time you make
a dark elf on the list, yeah. The Shadow Blade and services
and he wins games. Yeah, it definitely does.
Yeah. Alright.
I think that concludes our part for the special characters.
Yep, definitely one choice. That's extremely good.
And some others that are just on the verge.
Good, maybe but and then someday just way too expensive, so that
will be conquering theme as we go through the special
characters for each Army lists. Now, I believe you had prepared
a list of the various dark elf items for us to discuss as well.
I didn't prepare for the dark elf items, but they're not that
many that we can eat easily go through them.
We already talked about Destroyer Our.
Yeah, I think we actually cover and we also talked about
Executioner's Axe and so you considering a list of what you
would consider the, the best items for the dark elves to use.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
Yeah, man. We talked about that.
Yeah. Yeah.
For the general. you could give him crown of command with the
the corsairs and and then and then good armor, save and water
safe. You talked about wanting to use
some, some cheaper items for the child.
In this case, we are considering the armor of Fortune and perhaps
the little skulls. Yeah.
I don't think I would the flail of the skulls is not going to
perform on a on him. I would, I would say I'm a
fortune and and Jade amulet as to the two items.
So it's very cheap. Yeah.
And then the last item is always difficult for me to place
because I don't really like any of them, but I tend to use a
paring blade or sky are of nailer.
And yeah, of course. But I don't really like any of
them, but just give him the third item like I could just cut
it and say he has two items. But I always, when I open it,
when I make this General, I always feel like well I should
try to make a general that has some worth.
And as I talked about you could make him executioner or you
could make him have Ruby chalice to protect which shows or crown
of command to a to make a course, a as a pain in the ass
to remove. Yeah.
So those are pretty much the choices for the general.
I think. Now, how about also mentioned
the, how you would build a sorcerer could go usually with
the cloak of mist and shadows with potentially the book of
what's called grits Book of Secrets, that's right?
Yeah. Any other items you would
consider using instead for social?
Yeah, well. coarser, this bull scrolls are very good, but
Depending on what you're facing. It's also an option to Simply
get more magic to bait it. This builds goal this bill's to
have staff from Cyrus. And if you're not going to give
you a, you sorcerer Coke of mist and shadows which can be a
gamble. If the enemy has a magical
flying weapon or something like that then you should Place him
in in a regiment where he's close where he can take use of a
banner of sorcery if you can afford to get that.
And yeah, so he gets a little Willpower.
Because those dark magic items. A dark magic spells they are.
There are very many of them that are very expensive.
So you need to have something to boost your spells with and I
represent a power. Scroll is also good. just for
the reason that your opponent, We'll be counting how many cards
you have left and when you have none left, you can use the power
scroll and completely surprised your point.
Yeah, basically, when you're not drawing your total power to ya,
to get your attributes. Black horror.
You have to bait out the enemies, This spells and dispels
grows by forcing them, to use them on other spells in the same
turn and then powering through with whatever you want to.
You get through at the end. Yeah.
Very standard tactic for casting magic, but that's also allows
you to host, get you some it also allows you to get some of
the the smaller spells less effective but still, you know,
have an effect to get them through because your opponent is
expecting you to save the big stuff for the end of the magic
phase. Yeah, yeah, also definitely, oh
sorry, yeah. I was just about to say so
basically round finishing up here that the power scroll.
Definitely helps you to reach that end goal.
When you you start to they thought to run out of this spell
win some magic and schools. Yeah, Yeah.
Also Jade amulet is also very good choice for For your
sorcerer and a Golden Crown of exercise.
Very very good though pricey but in large battles where there's a
some real character Killers out there.
I would very much prefer to have it.
Yeah, that 3 plus War save is pretty good to keep your wizard
alive. And then maybe even they having
the Jade amulet to give you a secondary choice.
You cannot have both both. Oh yeah.
Kind of both the kind of both because they're both worlds.
Yeah. And I was there was one more
thing that I. Yeah, you can also make it if
you are having trouble have finding points enough for your
army, you can make you or you can buy a master sorcerer.
Is that instead of a lord and give him a book of a.
Sure, of course, your sorcerer is a fourth level visit now and
but he only has essential to items then but it's a way to
save. Points.
Yeah, definitely. It's a tactic would often used
with in our way we use since when we use level 3 Sorcerers at
the maximum, we tend to go for Champion.
So throw Wizard and then give them the book of azure to power
them up and that way save points on our character costs.
Allowing us to field more better, generals or more units
because sometimes we do not use all the character points
allotted and rather would like to include that in an actual
regiments instead. Yeah.
Now you had a you also have a standard list of a Dark Elf
Army. Should we go through that now or
should we save it for when we just start going to talk about
Battlefield tactics for the damn pills?
I think we should switch just do it now.
It's more like a starter starter Army.
I thought that's what you wanted.
Of course, one that. Yeah.
So something for people to want to start collecting soccer fails
or we have it and want to maybe join some 200, something that
they can use, to give an idea for the feel of how dark elves
are played. Yeah, and be successful in, at
least, you know, Well, the most of the cases.
Yeah. So, you've had a list for us.
Yeah, you need a for the Heroes that you need or the character
should read. You can get General a sorcerer
and assassin and a which shelf hero with those four, you can
make a Different kinds of of armies, and then your troops, I
would say you need 40 Scouts / crossbowmen.
Scouts models doesn't exist in in a lot of versions.
It didn't exist in there in fourth and fifth back.
Then that don't even think they exist in a six.
So I always also always use the crossbowmen normal crossbowmen
as my But I think you should have 40 of those at least and
then 25 which shows and 25 Casillas because these units and
foot are very good and you with these units you can make a
different armies and I would also have won both row and five
harpies. And this is the best unit that I
think you can. You can field.
Of course, if, if you really like to have some mounted units,
you could also get them and probably also make them work,
but with the, with this roster, you can make various good armies
for the Tar Heels. Okay.
Yeah. And any considerations like we
already talked about the the banners that we wanted to give
them, but is there anything you consider essential for the
setups that are available through this basic Army, SF
banners for them banners, or maybe items for the characters
really discuss that a little bit.
But basically the banners like yeah talked about when user
always get the been of might in my book.
Yeah. Because they has always get a
one of the three banners that give a combat result.
So that wall Banner Banner of defiance or battle Banner.
Well, not always because if, if I have crown of command on my
General in that unit, then I probably will give them a banner
of sorcery instead or they will say you are feeling both unit up
with shells and the unit, of course, as you would probably go
for the more aggressive with the combat result banners.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think that's it.
Yeah. Okay, then yeah, we could.
Just see if we can come to an agreement about firstly, to
summon up the strengths and weaknesses of the dog of army as
a whole. And then come to an agreement
about a rating for them. I think just the rating system,
one, two, three would be fine. I don't know what you think
about that. Yeah, we can do that.
I haven't really given a rating to the dwarfs yet, but I have
summarized that they might possibly be the worst faction.
In and wama fifth edition, and fourth edition.
But that would give them a, you considering our reading of one
of the lowest, of course. Yeah.
So I would probably dwarfs. I will probably give one or one
and a half. Okay?
Maybe it depends. I mean anything I need to play
more games. The doors to come to a final
decision yet. But as it stands right now, they
might possibly be the worst faction because of the movement
reduction. Yeah. in our rules, they I mean,
that with normal rules, you can get there, you can get eight,
organ guns in the tooth or thousand-point Army and that's
pretty good. Yeah.
But it's also not a very fun Army for anyone to face or
something like that. But yeah.
So there's that of course that you can.
Ya feel the lot more than you kind of now, because I also
mentioned that in our house rules that we only allow 31
Since which has severely hampered the towards this is, of
course, entirely objective that we considered the faction that's
faring. The worst because of our house
rules. Yeah.
Now, with the, the dark else, if I were to give them a rating, I
feel like they're they're on the verge of being good, but not not
entirely, I would still say it's around, I don't know.
That's a lot of actions. I would consider to be, so maybe
I won't will have to give the dark elves a rating of 1 and
would, I would tend to agree with that.
Because even though that they have, the scouts are very good,
the scouts just doesn't carry them enough and the wind chills
and can see us a good but carries them even less.
So, I would tend to say that our girls is a one, also keeping in
mind that we have to to raid all the other classes and their and
as you were saying, I think, I would Reserve to for a lot of
other classes that I find better and girls.
Yeah, definitely agree on that one.
They have a lot of weaknesses, toggles Army.
I think they have the strength is definitely Repeating
crossbows and strong meili foot units.
But their weaknesses is low Mobility weak characters
expensive character campaigns of troops.
Yeah, even more expensive Cal compared to what they do.
Yeah. The lack of Chariots is So major
concern compared to the other Al's.
Yeah, chairs being very good War Machine.
Yeah. What else would they like that?
They like I don't know if it's they could have used also some
monstrous infantry. I guess that's something that
lacking as well. A lot of factions use muscles
infantry to really pack a punch or to provide cover for some of
their calorie or large units. Characters, like the crunchy
goals for the Liz Lemon. I'll just insanely good for
their price. Yeah, definitely.
Yeah. They're they're too good.
The whole list. Momentum is too good for the
price, but that's another story. Yeah, yeah.
That's it has no story for another day.
Yeah, we'll get to that. At some point we have had a few
requests for the list of and so we may move on to them the next
time. Yeah we just got an army list of
course if you have any preferences of what you would
like to Have us discuss next time.
Please feel free to make comments in the crown of command
podcast form on Facebook and we'll see what we can figure out
for the next time. I will be discussing some of the
factions that Joshua has with Joshua is joining as well.
Of course, leading the podcast but in these situations here
when Casper and I are talking, it's unfortunately Adenauer
where Joshua is asleep. So We were taking some group
focusing on the factions that he doesn't have currently such as
the wood shelves and the Dark Elves, and the lisman and so
forth. But but feet, please feel free
to let us know if you have anything you disagree with or if
there's anything you would like us to discuss you in further, we
will be doing follow-up podcasts on each of the factions also
discussing the viability of tactic on the battlefield.
And how You should deploy how you should move your various
units. And, and in the same time trying
to design an army together, and how we would feel it in the
battlefield, is there anything else you would like to mention
about the dark elves before we finish watching Casper?
No, I think we covered pretty much all aspects that I can
think of. Yeah.
We wait Center farms and wide
here. Yeah.
And of course we will also be making a Castle.
We discussing the various magic items in the magic item list by
going through them methodically, considering them can compare to
that effect and that costs. So that will be something, we'll
probably do at the very end when we have gone through all the
various factions. But of course, I would be
discussing it with Joshua to see when you want to do this magic
item tactics list but as always, thank you.
Thank you for everyone for tuning in and we hope you
enjoyed our extraordinary log tactics.
Talk here. And the one before that will
dose. And I guess there's nothing left
to say, but thank you for tuning in and thanks to Casper for
joining us for just as long as well.
Thank you for having me. It was fun.
Yes, it was. It's always, I really enjoyed,
discussing tactics for the very zombies.
It's one of my favorite thing to do in this game.
All right, then we'll that I guess we will be signing off.
Well, you hope you enjoyed this, very special edition of our
podcast and it's going to be a feature that we'll see more and
more in further episodes as we look at in more detail of each
of the army books for 4th and 5th edition.
But if you have some comments or if you don't agree with the
opinions of Casper or you're Hannah's, please come over to
our Facebook group. That's the kind of Camp command
podcast Community. It's a special page is dedicated
for the podcast. And for other people into can
interact with us there. So, maybe you have your own
opinions about the dark elves, and how they should play or
different kinds of combination of magic items or maybe you just
disagree completely with those guys said.
And you just want to give your opinion and either way come over
and join us and have fun talking about our favorite armies and
our passion for 50 Titian and we'll Hammer.
Okay guys thanks very so much for listening and catch the next
one. Bye bye.