The Battle of a Norel's Tomb, read by Owen Staton.
Eldrill drew his cloak around him and turned his gaze towards
the eastern horizon. As the stars faded into the
Azure tint of Daybreak, he wondered whether he too was
destined to die in this barren and forsaken land.
Behind him, a sheer Cliff rose, dark and craggy into the sky to
tower over his small band of warriors.
At its base, shrouded in vines as with some ancient tapestry,
stood the granite pillar of a Norel's tomb.
He stretched out his fingers to touch the cold stone.
Centuries ago, a Norel, the great High Elf mariner and
explorer, had been laid to rest here when he and his crew had
been shipwrecked on this coast. Now Eldrill had come in the
vanguard of Lord Dromaliel's army to recover a Norel's
remains and recover that ancient jewel of power known as the
Navigator Stone. His mind drifted back to the
arduous journey from the coast. They had marched relentlessly
for three days, following the treacherous path of the Dark
River as it snaked its way through the shadowy mountain
peaks. They moved inland.
In Maralian. Lord Dameril's chosen hero had
flown above them on his War Eagle, silently scouting the
land to warn them of approaching dangers, and when they reached
the valley of Anoril's tomb, Imarian had turned back to guide
the main body of the army forward to join them.
And it was then then the disaster struck.
As the small group of elves approached the tomb, they had
been attacked by a savage pack of wolves, ridden by spiteful,
leering creatures that Eldrill recognized as hobgoblins.
They had driven off the foul creatures, but not before many
of his men had fallen under a rain of black arrows or been cut
down by surprise and the ferocity of the attack.
Eldrill had immediately sent a messenger back to Lord Ramalliel
to urge haste before the hobgoblins regroup to attack
again. All day they had skewered the
skies waiting for Emmalian's return, but there had been no
sign of the mighty warrior and his eagle Death Wing.
Then in the late afternoon the hills around their position had
echoed to the Thunder of drums and the braying of trumpets.
His scouts informed him that a large army of Chaos Dwarves was
marching towards their position, alerted no doubt by the sneering
tales of the hobgoblins. And just before nightfall he had
seen 2 great winged beasts flying high over the tombs.
At first he thought that it was Imralian and Lord Damariel had
returned to aid them, but as the creatures descended he realized
that both of the monsters were wreathed in smoke and flame.
And now he did endear fear the worst.
He knew that the dark dwarves would have little idea of his
real strength and would be unlikely to trust the tales of
the hobgoblins. He also knew that he could hold
his position. The main higher force led by the
Silver Helms and Riva Knights would soon come to their aid.
And with a heavy heart he posted sentries and settled down for
the night. To wait for the dawn, my Lord.
Eldrin looked up, torn from his thoughts.
Before him stood a young elf. His bright features marked him
from a noble family, but there was a hint of fear in his voice.
Eldrin nodded. The sentries report movements to
the north and the West. They fear the Dark Ones are here
and preparing for battle. From where he stood at the
center of the clearing, El Drill could just make out the
silhouetted forms of the sentries standing guard at the
edge of the trees. He turned back to the messenger.
Go, my lad, and have No Fear and prepare your weapons.
As the sun crept higher, the chill mist that had filled the
valley all night long seeped into the bones and hearts of
Eldrill's warriors, and it slowly burned away.
To the West the broad valley stretched away, dipping gently
to where it touched the dark ribbon of the river, and from
the edge of their camp one of the sentries came running.
My Lord, the enemy is once again upon us.
I can see their fiendish war machines being set up on Yonder
hill. Eldrill was silent.
He gazed at the messenger and remembered yesterday's battle,
the blood, the fear, and the comrades who had fallen.
As he strapped on his sword and prepared to sell his life, he
heard a great shout come from the South.
The triumphant yell echoed up the valley.
It was the war cry of Demariel. The High Elf army had arrived.
So here we are again, and we are doing another better report of
you. And with me stayed.
Hello. I and possibly Leo will join up,
maybe it's on 1/4 March somewhere, but a little bit
Unshore. So we'll see if we handle it.
And we are continuing our quest to look at all the 4th edition
bat reports from White Wolf and we are doing it mostly
chronologically. And that said, we have today
reached the Battle of Annual's tube and that one featured in
issue 164 that was from August 93, so not quite a year into
Warhammer Fantasy 4th edition. And Dave, what do you have any,
like instant memories from this battle?
Yes, so I was collecting holes at the time my my army that I
was I was doing so I was eager to see this one when I when I
thought to open so it's aisles wow.
I had mixed things about the cows dwarfs at the time because
I couldn't decide whether I liked them or not, mainly
because they they weren't Chaos Dwarfs that I was used to.
So I wasn't sure if if I liked them or not.
I was like, it's a big change, big departure from what they
were. They were kind of cool, but it
was kind of, I don't want to admit they're cool.
I want to discipline until eventually I just gave in went
no, actually they're quite cool. So I did like it.
I also liked spotting the fact they used a couple of models in
the in the high Alf army from before 4th edition.
So that was quite nice the the eagle rider and the Unicorn
rider. That was nice to see.
Although using the Unicorn rider, obviously a couple of
times they've you, they not to give anything away in the
future, there's another report where I think the the Unicorn
rider makes an appearance for the high holes further on.
We'll pop that one soon. But yeah, no, it's just nice
seeing and and excise based. And also I was loving the fact
that this was actually a proper scenario.
It wasn't just a straight battle.
Yeah, it's there's quite a bit of background and so on.
We'll get into that. So yeah, pretty well established
battle in that sense. And also I guess this would have
been the first battle where the Hyos actually used their
omnibook. Yeah, yeah, the previous one
would have been probably the white armies, but wouldn't it,
because that was the battle. Red Axe Pass was basically
contents of the box plus a few a few more bits for both whales
and goblins. So yeah, it's it would have
been. You're right.
And of course, the case was were quite new.
I suppose the book wasn't out yet.
Or was it? No, came up much later.
Yeah, this was this was using the which to be honest with you,
I mean, the book basically is the White Dwarf list with sneaky
gits and some special characters thrown in base.
So there there wasn't a lot of difference between the White
Dwarf list and the and the army book.
But yeah, they were relatively new.
But that's arguable. You know, this whole thing about
the flavour of the month wins the battle report.
Not to give anything away, but yeah, you kind of before you
read most of the battle reports, if you know what's, you know,
being released at the time, you can't have an idea the way it's
going to go anyway. But even back then we were, you
know, cynical enough to have noticed that.
But I really it's it's nice flavor.
It's really nice written. It doesn't say Bill King's
involved. I've got a sneaker suspicion he
was. Yeah, exactly, because it is
really nicely narratively written.
It's another one, but they're not saying, oh, I rolled A6 or
whatever. It's like, yeah, no, that's
good. We like that.
We love the narrative. And yeah, no, just just really
nicely. There's a lot of background in
there as well. So it's it's it's the scene
really nicely about, you know, it's saying how describes this
old, I guess he's an Admiral, an explorer, an Admiral who knew
he's killed while he's abroad in foreign lands.
Although he does it's really weird in that he says that his
followers buried him with his magical navigation stone, which
is a terrible name, can I say, But you don't navigate.
He could have called something better like the Star stone or
something like that. But yes, he's very witness
there. And then it's just they
disappeared because they they head north and complain about
how do they know? Yeah, exactly.
I don't think the elves end up looking for the navigator.
It's like, well, how do you know it's in these two?
It's a magical thingy. It has sort of AGPS ping or
something. Yeah, I was thinking about that
as well. OK, so OK, how did they get word
back? So a bit of a nice story.
It reminds sort of a, frankly, an expedition thing.
Everyone got lost and you know. And, you know, he talks about
then they were ambushed by hobgoblins and things like that.
So those the the new army coming in is ambushed by hobgoblins.
They know there's hobgoblins in the area and stuff like that.
So it's just really nicely set up.
Yeah, it's it's all good. Yeah, so if you have the time,
read the first couple of pages in the report and setting the
whole thing up. And so what's happening now in
our days since in the sort of battle is that the Hyos decide
to go back and get there, but I don't know if they're after the
item or the the bodies maybe. Yeah, it's the item.
I don't know. They're off the the Bodine.
I think it it says they're off the navigation stone.
Yes, yes. And of course, to do that, they
have to tackle the Chaos Dwarfs, which of course do the the first
appearance in, in a better port. And as you said, the it's not a
straightforward meeting engagement.
This one, it's a little bit different and I think pretty
nice one. And yeah, basically, but it's
not that different from a, a meeting engagement, but you have
a, a clear objective that decides the outcome and that's
the actual tool. So apart from that, most of the
units set up more or less as usual.
You've got your castles that have got extended deployment
zone. Oh yeah.
Yeah, they do. So that's they can deploy
further onto the battlefield, although they lose some of the
side. So it's kind of they squidge it
down on the side, but bring it further forward as it were.
So they're kind of retract but expand forward, which is really
been beneficial for them because obviously with their short
little legs, it's going to give them trouble reaching higher
farm. Then the higher farming actually
doesn't deploy on the battle on in the first turn.
They move on, yeah. Yeah, they move on in the first
turn. So they have they're they're
they're very, very baseline, which adds to the problem of
trying to get off to the side where where they they've got to
get to an L not Aldrich's team, sorry, an Orals tomb to relieve
the guards that are on there. So they've sent scouts ahead to
scat out the land and find tomb, but we're not sure how they know
it exists. But never mind.
They often find the tomb and then they send their Eagle Rider
back to lead the rest of the army to to the battlefield.
Well, well, no. Well, they don't actually be in
battlefield, do they? When they send him back, they
send him Semene. You go rider back and he brings
the highs and they yeah, they've got to move from their baseline
over to one side to the other side of the battle.
So kind of the centre line on the other side of the
battlefield to which they're deploying.
So it's it's a, you know, the highs should have the speed to
get there, but obviously that's going to be curtailed by a
certain items by the the council's have that can slow
units down. Yeah, but that's that's the
setup. So it's slightly different and
it does give the high O's knowledge of the way Castor Army
has deployed, which we all come to why that makes certain
decisions. Staggering.
I'm not staggering. Sorry Robin, I shouldn't say
staggering but but maybe with hindsight not the best tactical
choices. Let's say, well, often the case
in these battles, but yeah, that's sort of what makes them
interesting in a sense. And yeah, so the Hyos League
unit of Arches, I think the tomb.
They do. Do their best.
Which, Yeah, I suppose, but enough.
There is a high off unit you could pick to do that job.
I think there's probably 1, but they don't have models for them
yet. So yeah, we'll come on to that
in a bit when we talk about the high off army.
But yeah, it's a difficult pick. So I do just want to quickly
shout out, and it's not to do the battle report itself as
such, but next to the deployment map where they're talking about,
you know, the scenario and Victoria conditions for it.
They've got the piece of art boy John Blanche that made it into
the Warhammer rule book Chaos doors very much of this style
versus yeah versus high old of a very strange high off style as
well. Yeah, it's a bit of a high wood
of thingy, kind of. Harlequin kind of feel to it,
isn't it? It's a beautiful, absolutely
beautiful. And maybe, you know, something
to inspire a later, later piece of work.
And that actually maybe that's key.
Maybe it's the fact that both of them are very stylistic.
Maybe that's why no one really noticed about the because the
point I'm trying to make is this was in the high of Robert.
No one not high of Robert, sorry, the the Warhammer Robert,
no one really that I know of. And I had a few mates around at
the time. No one picked up on it.
The Who are these? Yeah, who?
Is this Oh it's just dwarfs and if he's stylized you can maybe
get that. But there is a whacking great
big demon looking monster thing in the.
What do you? Think what?
Yeah, that's true. And I mean, this one must have
been made like a year or more before they came out.
So yeah. Be interesting to know which
came first, the idea for them or this piece of art that then
inspired them. Yeah.
Good question. I think we'll ever know, unless
John John Blanche won't know to be asked.
Yeah, John, all the I suppose when they got there sort.
Of that'd. Be interesting, yeah, but that's
true. That's probably the first
picture that gives this very special characterisation of the.
PS Wolves. Cool, good spot.
All right, so the we didn't mention that the participants
today is Robin and Gary Morley. So yes, interesting couple of
guys, I don't think did any of them do any more better reports?
Robin Wood off. Yeah, but Gary Robin, certainly
he did. He basically was the guy in the
battle. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Up until he stopped editing them really.
Well, He didn't. He didn't do the 40K ones, but
he did. He was definitely involved in
almost all of the Warhammer Fantasy ones until he stopped
editing the magazine. And from what I heard, he was
sort of the driving force behind doing them into the format that
we. Yeah, yeah, No, it was a
brilliant idea, although I said there are people who don't like
better reports in there, but they're more the seasoned,
established gamers, let's say, who didn't need to be taught how
it worked. And I was kind of a hybrid of
that in the. I had a brother in, you know, do
it, but I actually enjoyed reading about reports.
So yeah, I don't think my brother particularly liked them.
I know I've spoken to other people who think that reports
are a bit of a white space. And let's be they are an advert
as well. It's not just teaching and
exercise. It is an advert.
But again, the entire magazine is an advert.
So that's, that's exactly what White Dwarf was for.
It was a here's our product to come and buy it, you know.
Yeah, Yeah. Yes, Workshop, they didn't
really do the sort of normal advertising because they had
White Wolf. So that's.
Exactly. Their thing.
Well, that and the shop front as well.
I I saw I I was watching one of those film dig.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, John Stallard, where
he talks about, you know, part of the point of keeping the
lights on overnight was that people walking past at night,
often coming out of the pub would, would maybe stop and gaze
into the window and think, oh, I'll come here tomorrow.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
That was a big part of advertising as well.
You know, they had a very visual product.
Yeah. So they they need to advertise
it. Was it advertised itself?
If you're in the right place to see it.
Yeah. Occasional advertising, let's
call it. Yeah, regardless of what you
enjoyed in the better ports, I mean there's a lot to like if
you are inclined. So I mean, I just like the
visuals and the yeah, the narrative and so on.
I don't think I expected it to be some profound tactical advice
that I would adapt so. If anything it's the opposite.
It teaches you what not to do often.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, quite often. So what did they?
Ships or their armies maybe? Of course in these days they
were fairly limited by what they had and even more so with the
Chaos wharfs because they had a pretty slim picking from the the
sort of army lists, so I think they got pretty much what they
could get. Well.
See, we'll come to should you do you want to do the castles
first? Because.
No, we can do the highest first. That's.
Logical OK, we'll do those and we'll come to the castles and
there's a point I want to make about the the castles army so
hile farming then yeah I mean both these armies are kind of
small armies because they both massively concentrated on on
characters massively you know he's hero hammer so that's what
we kind of expect to an extent, but there are you know it's not
a high off army that I would pick I like the fact he's
squeezed in an eagle rider as well as the the griffonite.
That's kind of cool. But you know, all of the
character allowance pretty much goes on for characters.
One, he's got a champion, the silk Helms who doesn't have a
magic weapon or anything to make him particularly good in close
combat. He's just a champion.
Which, you know, at the time, I've got to be honest, I pretty
much ignored champions. I just put heroes in units
because champions were a bit rubbish.
I think 6th edition taught me that champions are actually
worthwhile. Yeah, because you didn't pay for
champions and that, oh, actually they're really useful.
Now going back to 4th edition, I do make useful champions for
units, and heroes are reserved for barely use units.
They're kind of for boosting a unit or on a rare occasion
getting another flyer in, but it's very rare that's done.
It's normally for boosting units combat capabilities.
But champion isn't bog standard for including so that's weird.
No? So only the one you has a
champion, the Lord has one that's the other.
Interesting. There aren't many magic items in
the high off army, but the ones he does include are very
expensive. So the Lord's got sort of
Tekla's which. Yeah, maybe.
You know, went over to Teklis before they went off and said
can I borrow your sword a bit? Yeah, I like my Later on, he
talked about the release of the ancient energies.
He's like, I did a bit. I don't know what the timeline
for this is, but Teklis did forge his sword relatively.
You know, it's not an ancient heirloom that he received.
He forged it himself. So it's not that old sword.
And also. In high of terms, obviously in
empire terms is ancient, but in high of terms it's a relatively
new sorts. That's an interesting take on
it. But I you know, he's got no
magical armour, He's got nothing to protect him other than heavy
armour and a shield. And I mean, that's still for up
save, but for your Lord, that for me feels like he's going in
naked. Yeah, but I think that goes for
both the armies. They don't go heavy on like
water slaves and stuff so. No they don't.
I mean ward saves weren't even a a thing, but then they weren't
known as ward saves. No, no, no.
But the the the effect was still there.
There were the number of very popular items like black
elements and the helm of Yeah Yeah.
Yeah, but you know, the the they called them special save, didn't
they? And then arcane and that so
arcane magic. And I said, oh, these are
special saves. That was modified by magic
weapons. Exactly, and then possibly it
was fifth or it was 6th where they became known as ward saves.
Yeah, I think most people understand what you mean by ward
saving. Oh, yeah, And it's the term we
use nowadays for that kind of unmodifiable save that's in
addition to or excludes our Mercedes.
But yeah, so he's going a bit late.
Yeah, OK. It's a powerful sword, but I
personally I'm, I'm, I, I, I. Yeah, it's not the best I
suppose. I think it was like 100 points
or something. So you can probably do better if
you want to. Exactly.
Well, I'll break that voice down, but yeah, then you've got
the high off hero who has excessive magic items being
mounted as a hero on an eve. He's got his.
I suppose he didn't want to give a Talisman of Howard to his
general because otherwise he would basically be making
Elfarian. So give it to someone else.
So again, he's got someone who's only got a heavy armor and a
shield as as protection and the blade of darting steel, which is
an excessively expensive magic item for a high off because then
they've got really good weapons. Skill and motion times should be
hitting on three plus you're OK rather than hitting on 2/3 of
the top, you're hitting automatically.
But it's still you know, you go for some like a blade of source
with iron, which would pretty much give you almost as good or
heart or heart seeker, which should give you almost as good.
No, not guaranteed hits, but pretty much you're likely to
hit. So so that's a bit excessive and
he's obviously he's got the Tusman of Howarth and now the
high off Wizards at the time. You could have Tekla or you
could have the Unicorn mounted mage.
Yeah, they were the only two models that you had for Wizards,
though. Yes, you could do older, but
they don't think they had any older ones painted up.
Maybe he could have nicked a wizard from they have any
wizard. No might they hasn't got any
Wizards painted up for his body force that we've seen in print.
You might have, but none we've seen in print.
So therefore elf wizard models, he's got a choice of 2.
So I think he's taken that because you don't want to use
the Tekla's model and he needs another.
He feels he needs another wizard.
Get that? No, he shouldn't have.
It's a good idea, however. OK, this may sound like Mr.
Gatekeeper, hate that, but on the card it says college decks
and he takes high magic. Oh, OK.
It's supposed to be college deck.
College deck. So OK, you know, meeting game
with your mates. If your mate says yeah, no,
fine, take high off high Magic. I don't have an issue with that,
but it's kind of they're trying to show people what to do.
Yeah, that's a bit of a danger. Yeah, well.
Yeah. Although I suppose you're like,
oh, he's showing that you can do that if you want.
Yeah, I guess. All right.
Yeah. Yeah, they, I mean they could
have written that for this scenario.
We decided it was more in character to use.
Exactly. But strictly speaking it should
be. And do you know what?
It was a mistake I was making at the time as well.
I think I took it and took high off magic, High magic.
So it's not mistake. I don't see why he's made, but
you know, for putting something in print to show kids and
everyone how do it. It's a bit of a Boo Boo.
There's that. Then he's got a Unicorn.
The the major on the Unicorn. Now unicorns are the 90 points.
They're pretty expensive for what you get.
Yeah, I mean that what you get is really cool.
It's not, you know, considering a horse's 7 bodied horse's 7
points and Unicorn is 90 points. Yeah, you get a bit of a magic
protection and it's it's not a close combat beast, obviously.
The but it's one that I would put into a unit of cavalry like
silver Helms. Yeah, age as well.
Yeah, into into that unit, because then it gives the whole
unit protection from magic. So it's not just the Unicorn,
but the unit unicorns live with. So that's that's one of things
I'll do. It gives you a skull on the
Caliph or Herzer and Caliph in the heart of woe.
Yeah, interesting. It's a weird combo.
Caliph, I guess was a newish magic item they wanted to
promote using it. It's it doesn't feel like a high
off item to me. No, definitely not.
And and also, I mean, if you want to optimise the
effectiveness, maybe not to spoil it, it it kind of does
something. But I guess the high leadership
troops, it's not usually best, but.
No, and also wielded. And it has to be wielded by
wizard. But they're not the best close
combat and you've got to score a hit.
Yeah, I mean, they they were, they were still decent.
I mean, a Lord had three attacks and I.
Guess yeah, and I guess there's an elf against, as you say,
against a different army. Maybe there's more argument for
it because, you know, being an elf, her base weapon skill would
have been for. I can't even remember actually
if if I don't think a Lord, a wizard Lord gets a weapon skill
of five. But when school four against
most about should be enough if you're fighting rank and file
should be good enough. Yeah.
But still, I mean, yeah, sure, go for it.
It's a bit of fun. It's not predictable 1 So yeah,
I. Wouldn't have.
That was predictable, but. Yeah.
I mean, that's sort of. Suicidal on a on a highly,
highly expensive model. Yeah, probably the, I guess the
most expense, maybe not, but yeah, I mean the basic we said
Lord is like what is it, 300 something points at least.
Yeah, well, you're looking at just over 400 points for the
Lord on the Griffin because it's 160 + 150 + 100.
So plus my guys, you're looking probably about 4:20.
So that's 328. Yeah.
So 328 + 90 really up to 418, the magic items on top of it.
So it is the most expensive model in the high off Army.
We'll see some. Wish.
Yeah. And for those who doesn't
remember, I don't recall the exact wording of the item, but
basically when the model dies, it explodes and it explodes
within range based on the wounds, is it starting wounds.
So that's OK, It's the most dangerous model to put it on so.
Yeah, got my wounds, to be fair. Yeah, absolutely.
But it's still a bit crazy. It's.
Yeah, yeah, because of course you only do get it hecked when
when he actually dies. And maybe you don't want you
with the Lord to die, but. Well, I guess, I guess it's 2225
points. It's not the most expensive
item. So it's kind of a how shall I
put it. It's a vindictive OK, you've
killed me. So have that kind of way too,
rather than an except missile designed to use, if you see what
I mean. There's two ways of using it.
One is as just as a nasty, you know, vindictive attack or, you
know, you've killed my wizard fine, and you have that.
Yeah, all the chemicals. Used in a sense of actually
intentionally sending them in to die to make it explode.
So I don't think he's on that. So I think it's probably the the
the former of those, but still an interesting choice.
Let's say an interesting. And I think as you said before,
maybe the Unicorn would have been well placed in a units of
cavalry. Maybe that item doesn't really
promote. That Oh yeah, no, no, you don't
want the heart of worry in the unit.
Like you don't that that's crazy.
And no disparaging scrolls. That's that's really wow.
Yeah. So overall, very little
protection for each army citizen.
Go for no. Magic adders for protecting from
no amulets of fire, nothing. He says that chaos with magic is
really potent. Yeah, but doesn't it anything
other than Unicorn for the major self doesn't take any kind of
magical protection. Maybe wanting the spells to go
off to highlight them. Yeah, yeah.
I was thinking that maybe they didn't want to, you know, have a
lot of protection to slow things down or dispelling and stuff.
So. Although weirdly we'll come to
this later, not many spells actually do go off in this.
Yeah, I noticed that. But yeah, a few runs but
considering and I mean when looking at the spells that he
has got the not pretty much all the good ones I think.
Yeah, yeah, they didn't get hypothesis, which is the worst
one. Yeah, her hand suppose.
OK, yes, Glamouritec is really useful and drain magic can be
really useful. Sort of sound very good.
Doesn't use coalucation, but you kind of would have thought.
I suppose it depends how you deal with them.
Yeah, but you kind of want the firing complication to be with
you wizard Lord because it's easy to cast.
Obviously, though, it's level 5 opposing but no, he spells, you
know he spells a good selection spells Yeah, he's in that sense
a decent army. Well, it's actually spells for
the army anyway. But then we come to what I
consider to be Robins crime, the army standard bearer in a
chariot with about. Yeah, that's that's definitely a
tool. Very.
Glass cannon. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, very high points cost for A1 wound character.
Yeah, and I mean putting him on a because Chariots are quite
brutal on their own in the 4th, 5th edition because you only
need to basically have one lucky bow shot and take up one of the
the mounts. And they also send, it's well
starting to become more of a liability really so.
It's like with Army standard, so you're at 98 points, about 100.
So he's still about 300 points himself.
Yeah, that's a lot of points for A1 wound character.
And well, would come to the Yeah, that's what.
I get the idea that the battle banner is supposed to be the
rank, you know, the rank bonus and stuff like that.
I get that there's still a danger and you're going to roll
the one on the battle banner. OK, I guess because he's got
army battle at least +2 to combat resolution because you've
got the army standard plus the plus the battle banner.
So that's +2, but it's still. Yeah, I mean, if if he gets the
shorting, it wouldn't be pretty devastating.
And you get supposed to send me civil.
I mean if but as you said, if you fluff the rules it's going
to be a bad day for him. But.
Yeah, exactly. I I put all you know, if you're
going to take an army standard, I'll probably put it in a unit.
I'll just take a normal tier knot charity.
He'll have one less attack and one less point of weapon skill.
Yeah. But I think overall.
A banner on it. You could still put the battle
banner on the tier knot charity. So so so the army standard.
It's OK yes it gives the re rolls but you get plus one for
having a standard on the chariot plus one for the battle banner.
So there wouldn't be a lot of difference between that, but a
lot big. But you save yourself about 100
points. But I mean in in 4th edition, I
think better standard bearers are more sort of fluffy and
cool. You have a chance to a
centrepiece. But but I mean it has useless
but it is not the best model to put all your efforts in.
No, it's it's you know they are there for the reroll, not for
the combat ability. Yeah.
And also, of course, if you invest in an expensive banner in
a unit, if you put a banner in, I mean, the you can't kill the
individual model in that sense. But of course you can kill the
better standard bearer. So it's even more risky in that
sense. And Hyos, I think they had a
fairly good choice in putting magic panels in their units like
empires, so on. Yeah.
Well, yeah, I mean, you couldn't in.
I don't think you could in spear men or warriors or.
Yeah, but most sort of. They had plenty of elites that
could. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely,
absolutely. And they do that in one of their
units to the silk melter. Give them the banner of rather
than Yeah, that was a good choice.
Or not. Usually a solid item though, so
yeah, yeah. Absolutely he's I mean he's
expensive but a good item. An extra magic missile attack,
basically. Yes, yeah.
I can't remember off the top of my head in it was either in 3rd
or in fourth because because it appears in both of them, one of
them, they have to forgo their close combat attacks in order to
use it. That's probably third.
Yeah, it must be. I don't recognise that at all
from of course. But yeah, if that is the case,
then I'd, I'd be more inclined to put it into a unit of
infantry in fact, because you need all, you know, with the
cavalry, you need all the attacks you're going to get to
do the damage to, to break people on turn one.
But yeah, I mean, well, the rest of it really, it's the actual
units wise, not I don't have a huge amount of issue with it.
The units feel small to me. Yeah, there's not a lot of rank
bonus going on in this. Battle, no.
Well, I think they are deployed in in line rather than column
anyway, but they're just, you know, 60.
But but bear again, this is a linear conversation.
At the time, 60 models in the unit was not considered to be a
small unit. No, and I think for most on this
more than 20 was excessive so not from goblin Suns gave and
maybe. Yeah, these days I'm horrified
by dropping below 20. But that's, you know, he said
that's, that's the linear conversation again about, you
know, what was considered normal at the time.
So these days it would be considered aborum at least.
But back in the time, no, I mean, overall he's, you know, he
says he can only get one. Was it this one?
He says he could. No, he doesn't mention that.
It's the, it's the next high off that report.
They've only got 1 repeater bolt for a painted up, so that's all
they can take. So he's not going to take more
than one because they had the second one painted up.
I'm pretty sure he'd take it because they're very useful
items. Good points wise, I suppose the
characters are pushing the 50%. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I, I
did a little bit of adding up of the and bear in mind they might
have been using a well, they weren't using the high off book
actually. Yeah, they were.
So I was about to say they might be kind of different points
values, but if you go by the points values from the high off
book, I can't actually make 1500.
I want me to go OK, but yeah, so, so we'll we'll move on to
the council for me this then next.
Yeah, I can't make 1500 with what he's picked.
I'm just below. Yeah.
So yeah, yeah. Super quick.
What they have, they have a unit of Revonites, they have 16
Phoenix Guards, They have a unit of Spearman 16, two orchard
units and a unit of Civil Worms. So that's when you look at
pictures from this era of the higher formula.
Yeah. It's usually how they look.
I mean, it's rare to have like super big blocks of infantry.
And I think so not, not like stand out Army that sets.
But today it would have been a bit odd perhaps.
Yeah. So, yeah, good tights.
We'll have a short break and we'll be back.
We'll be back after that. Our sponsor, Black Araminis, is
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Right. So we're back and we have looked
at the sort of the background and the high of list and a few
other things. So I guess on to the the Chaos
Dwarf list in this. So what did Gary go for?
Just before we do that, I find this really intriguing, right?
He says he's a key Mighty Empires player, but all that
sort of stuff. I'm pretty sure Josh did an
interview with him when he said he didn't even work playing
more. Am I?
Yeah, yeah, I know. I suppose this would have been
like maybe not a full year after he joined, so maybe he had a bit
of time to actually play some games.
But like you said Prior to joining up for Games Workshop, P
how they know what it was about. So yeah, I mean, it's not much
we alluded to, is it in in the he just as well I'm a key mighty
empire. Maybe he'd had a couple of games
of Mighty Empires. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I mean, I think maybe it wouldn't have been too good in
Texas and say, oh, I don't know what this is all about.
What a bit of this? Maybe not.
Anti anti on brand. Yeah, yeah.
And well, who knows, maybe we can ask him at some point.
He's sort of in the loop. So who knows?
Who knows. Yeah, it would have been
interesting to know how they recruited people for these
things. I mean, obviously, Robin Deuce,
he was sort of on it. But did they sort of say, OK,
you're on for a better report, report to duty?
Or did they sort of sign up somehow?
I don't know but. It'll be interesting and even
came out of just they, they're having a game, you know, in, in
lunch hour or after work. And it was like, oh, this would
be a really good one for a battle report.
Yeah, those came up, wouldn't it?
Yeah. I think it was probably
specifically chosen for this, but yeah.
Yeah. And I'm wondering if if Robin,
if he sort of had a schedule like who's Yeah.
Who maybe who hasn't won yet? Yeah, all this randomised you're
on get going. So yeah, maybe we'll find out
one day. But yeah, like you said, we we
can sort of be fairly sure that Gary wasn't many year expert of
playing Warhammer games because he said he wasn't so felony.
But yeah, he got onto the duty of commanding the Chaos Dwarf
Army and. The even smaller Chaos Dwarf
army than. I haven't counted the models,
but it's. Tiny.
Yeah, you know. But again, maybe just because
they were the models they had available when they did the
battle. You know, like hobgoblin arches
and more hobgoblin warriors weren't painted up.
The unit choices available, they went too many apart from the
ones they had here, yeah. This is the point I need to
make. So yes, they didn't have a lot
of coastal models painted up necessarily.
And the hobgoblin model was painted up at the time.
And maybe they added some more, you know, as when things, as as
time went on, they added some more models.
Maybe they did. They'd have the orcs and goblins
painted up. Yeah, Yeah.
I was thinking about those they. Could make use of them as slave
units. So he hasn't really, he hasn't
done that. He's used some of the hog
goblins, but he hasn't used any orcs or goblins in this one.
Just advertising all new models, all of them, I don't know.
Shock horror. You.
Mean that that's it is just only only to use the castle forms.
Maybe a bit conspirator? Yeah, could.
Be but it's an interesting army though there's some things like
the Lord has some interesting magic items let's say.
So a spell shield in 4th edition isn't actually that great
because it doesn't really dispel it more moves the spell around
Obsidian blade useful for destroying magic armor.
Well, maybe that's you know, I didn't have any magic armor and
a healing potion, which always sounds like a great idea.
And to be honest with you probably is a really good idea
because Mace was probably work on the notion that there's no
point taking healing potion because you when your
character's dead, you can't use it.
But in reality, you probably character combats are often
grinds and they do lose like one turn 11 wound a turn or two
wounds a turn. So maybe he actually is a good
idea, yeah. It could be.
I think it's a bit tricky to know when to use it to use it
when you only have gotten 1 wound.
Yeah, because you could lose, go down to two wounds and lose 2.
Wounds yeah, yeah, and just when you.
Lost your chance? So, yeah, and I think what is a
bit fun about the medic item choices for both organs is they
they use some items not usually seen because when you sort of
get into the what's good or not in medic items, there are a few
that stand out that you I mean, if you want to maximize it, you
always see a crown of command and you always see, you know,
various not. You.
Yeah. You pronounce it, but yeah, it's
they are two, two usual choices, yes.
But yeah, it's an interesting choice and we'll come on to
play. It's more of an interesting
choice further on. Because his choices.
He's not particularly good in attacking and he's not.
He's a dwarf Lord, so he's very good in attacking, yeah.
Yeah, but I mean, if you compare to if you snack on a really good
medical sword, he will. Yeah, yeah.
Well, like, like the giant lady gives to his wizard.
Yeah, that's that's an interesting choice. 80 points,
+3 to Strength. Oh gosh.
For a wizard, he's a bit excessive.
Yeah, yeah. So you almost get the feeling
maybe they just randomized the items, but I'm sure they didn't.
But yeah, they didn't, you know, go into it's.
Not power game. No, no, absolutely not.
They didn't. No, it's power games having
really expensive characters, but it's not necessarily maximizing
their potential. But yeah, so the Lord is an
interesting choice. Sorcerer Lord Giant Blade.
Yeah, we've already been touched on that Book of Azure.
Solid choice you. Know it's.
Not a campaign game. So they aren't yet brought in
the role. They might or maybe they have in
the studio that I mentioned. They haven't yet brought in the
role as far as we know about non competitive play games, IE.
Or rather non campaign games where they say she's rolled the
start of the game or at the end. I can't remember which one they
said it was. What of power probably actually
is of more use than people give it credit for if you sit and
actually work the maths out. Actually the power is a good
item. Bit like the the healing potion
maybe actually is a good good choice.
I'd never really take something I will want to use all my power
cards in one turn. Why why why would I save them up
for another turn? But in actual fact the number of
cards you're going to get probably isn't that high, so
therefore saving up maybe is a good choice.
And to be fair, he doesn't cast that many spells in the game.
So Rod of Power saving things up, maybe.
Maybe that's why he didn't cost many because we were saving
cards up. I don't know.
For a devastating blowout, I don't know.
Yeah. And then the Amulet of Fire
doesn't the lamas who basically do what the Amulet of Fire does.
Yeah, I think so. Yeah, that's.
Doubling up. Yeah, and I mean, maybe it would
have been better to just get some dispelled scrolls if you.
Yeah, dispelled scroll power scrolls weren't a thing at this
point. They didn't come in until arcane
magic, so you wouldn't bother getting that.
But maybe you know, maybe you can combine that rod of power
wand of jet. Just just thoughts.
But there there's not a terrible slate.
I I think the only terrible one on him really No2 OK, giant like
those two odd question. The other two like pretty solid
choices. Don't have an issue with them
at. All yeah, I mean, I mean the
giant date is a good item is maybe not just good at us on us
also a lot so. That maybe should have gone to
the general, but there we. Yeah, it would have been making
more sense to switch those two magic weapons around, I suppose.
Yes. Or maybe Obsidian blade.
I think it's a difficult to sell in any.
Yeah, I think Obsidian Blade probably if you're fighting
Dwarfs, is probably a good shout.
Could be. You know, you often see rooms on
magical, but there aren't that many magical suits of of armour
going. So against regular armies, maybe
not as useful as as potentially it could be maybe against chaos
or something, I don't know. Yes, that's the characters as
you've got champions in every unit and most of them have in
fact they all have a magic item and some of well one of those I
would question. The rest I think are pretty.
Yeah, No, she was the ones have chosen, but the blunderbuss you
attend blunderbuss includes a champion who's got the Crimson
arm. It's for a unit you don't want
to get into close combat. OK.
Yes, you could say on planning for if they did.
Yeah, but I mean, he's still only a champion, so he's not
going to make a huge difference. Yeah, he's a bit excessive for
what he is, you know, something like maybe the armour of
Fortune, you know, 10 points cheaper or armour of Endurance
if you really want to go down that route.
But yeah, I don't know, it's a bit of a crazy one, but you
know, it's, it's characterful I suppose, and and it does fit
castles quite nicely, the idea of Crimson armour.
So. Yeah, Yeah.
I was thinking that maybe thought that was visually, you
know, that's right. So.
On the general rather than the spell shoot, Yeah, yeah, that's
weird. But the rest of them, I mean, 16
warriors, yeah, we're champion with a blade of slicing.
Yeah, I'm up with a hero in the unit of holocably wolf riders.
Yeah. OK.
That's, you know, that's that's pretty, you know, with probably
more fries. You'd often put a big boss in
rather than a hero. Sorry, rather than a champion or
boss. So, yeah, I've got an issue with
that. And magic items.
Heart secret in China shield. Yeah, no good.
Two good solid. Yeah.
Magic items and they've already got like armour and Shields, so
they can't be fast cavalry. So therefore giving enchanted
shield doesn't take away that benefit.
So that's OK Hope golly wolf ride.
OK hope Goblin warriors 12 strong.
That needs a little bit of a call out.
That's that's an odd choice for a unit. 12 strong units of
rubbish home goblins. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
They're just only a little bit better than normal goblins, I
suppose. And you don't usually see those
because they don't, they don't have like fanatics or something
to bring. So what they would be able to
receive but I'm not sure really. Not a lot, I mean it's basically
OK worse legion thing but same sort of stats except for legion
as a human I think. Would you?
Unless it's a detachment, which I know we don't use in 4th
edition. Would you ever pick a unit of 12
strong? I don't.
Know because yeah, if you wanted them, the speed bump or some
sacrificial unity would probably make it even smaller, maybe.
And yeah, I don't see it. Maybe they only had 12 painted
up at. The top, yeah, it could be,
because otherwise giving them both would probably been at
least something, yeah. So Bowman, yeah.
So excuse me, Bowman. Yeah.
But 12 Oakland Warriors just feels it's not going to do a
lot. It's not.
Going to hold any it's. Not really a threat because it's
only 12 strong and you've got the the ball centaurs.
Yes, very much a threat though. Yeah, but look, Blade of Leaping
Copper always has me a little bit 25 points for one extra
attack, which you can do with an additional hand weapon.
OK, yes, we use a shield, so there's that.
It just feels like you could have given the champion.
OK, He's champion has to have a shield, doesn't he?
There's no choice. Yes.
Yeah. No, actually, yeah, he's a
champion. So you couldn't give him
additional hand weapon? Yeah, no, that's fine.
Yeah, but he's worked through the logic of my head there.
You can't give him additional weapon because he's a champion.
He has to be on the same as the rest of the unit.
If he was a hero, you'd go for additional hand weapon.
He's not a hero. Yes, that's why.
OK, no, that makes sense in that sense.
Yeah. No.
Bladelit and copper perfectly good choice, although obviously
doesn't get the strength bonus anymore.
But yeah, solid unit. And then the two war machines
that were available at the time. It's just there's not a lot of
content. That's the only thing.
Yeah, it's, it's pretty well. It's like 50 models in total
maybe? Yeah.
And also another thing, it's a total point cost of 2950.
So it's. Boise, yeah, Spain.
Yeah, he could have done something quite easily with
that, just throwing a magic item.
Yeah, Yeah. Or a banner or something.
So yeah. Yeah, I mean, even in the
castle, Warriors could have had a magic banner maybe you know
that. Yeah, that would have or the
ball sent to us go out of Magic banner.
That's probably actually where you should put it fast.
Can be your main close combat units to come back to banner,
Banner of Might or something like that.
Yeah, that could have been a. Dread banner something?
Yeah, kind of makes sense. There we go.
He's he, that's how he's chosen and and you know he does it
perform. We shall see.
Well, there's not a lot of good time.
You want to. Anything else you want to bring
up about that? No, no, I think it's, I mean, he
wasn't spoiled for choices as far as what he could bring, I
suppose. So hotly fairly predictable, but
a few odd choices here on there. And I mean, yeah, maybe they had
sort of an agreement because they are, you know, the highest
and the KS wolves are both a bit bit quirky.
So when it comes to choices of medic items and so on.
So maybe they sort of had an agreement.
Let's not do you know, full power gaming on this one.
So let's add a few odd choices. Maybe, I don't know, but because
it would have been a bit odd if one had like supermaxed
combination of phonetic items and the other one had sort of, I
don't know, themed stuff that maybe isn't the best.
It kind of feels like on the at least the two characters, the
two the here the the Lords, the you know, the general and the
social. Almost like it was an attempt at
maxing but you missed the mark because the items aren't great.
But I mean Robin, he should have been the season enough to know
know what works by this point. Yes, yeah.
But I mean, I don't think, I don't necessarily think that the
high off choices of much items are strange.
It's just the lack of certain items feel strange.
Yeah. More, it's kind of the lack of
magic armour feels strange, but you know, again, it's linear and
you know, are we still in a point where people are getting
to grips with battle or they'd have thought the studio would be
a bit more up to grips with magic items by this point, but
there we go. But there, yeah, there are some
things that feel weird looking back at it.
Maybe it didn't feel so weird at the time, but looking back at it
feel weird. Looking at some of the other
battle reports on this area era I think they go a bit more
standard on some the Empire but. That's kind of my point, is it
because we're looking at it through that lens, because that
became standard, because that's how we saw them in battle
reports later, you know, and that formulated what we now
think of as normal with magical problems And the standard,
standard items, you know, if they carried on less
combination, which is what it becomes really, it becomes magic
items become combinations, then maybe this would not look so.
Weird everything said I I think it's it's a bit refreshing to
see those items, so I don't mind at all.
But yeah, I. Don't know.
I don't mind either. It's it's refreshing and it's a
fun game. It's, you know, it's another one
where not a lot happens actually.
Yeah, so I think we can go through the first couple of
units rounds pretty quickly. So what happens is the like you
said, the high offs have first turn, but they don't start on
the board. They start by moving into the
board. So I suppose that means they
can't do all the Butch or there's no effective shooting
for the first turn really. And also the characters they
yeah, they don't go flying high on the first turn, they stay on
the. Well, I think that's because of
his, I think Robin obviously has a plan to use The Tempest, which
wood forest the flies down. So he knows that's what he wants
to do on the first turn. Therefore he's not sending his
characters flying high if you're not doing that.
Yeah, first thing with flying high, he's always have the
initiative on flying high because you want to be up there
and down as quick as possible, really.
Yeah, but but with the the sort of deployment, could they go
fanghai or were they supposed to?
I suppose coming onto the board, yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess
they couldn't because they're coming onto the board.
Yeah, that would probably, but you'd expect maybe to further
onto the board. Yeah, yeah, they they don't
March up very far. And Robin does later on note
that he has made a few part, you know, a mistake here and
obviously has, you know, his, his mission is to secure the,
the the tomb. Now, obviously he's got a unit
of Archers guarding the tomb at the moment.
So maybe his thinking is, well, it's protected.
There's no worries. I don't need to worry about it.
Well, I think maybe he's placing a bit too much comfortable.
Yes, yes, absolutely. On a unit of Archers, yeah.
Now, tactically, I said we'd come to this tactically,
probably the best unit for that which they didn't have models
for at this point, but probably the best tactically would have
been to use it of Lother and Sea Guard.
Little bit of fighting, little duty.
You know, a decent unit led by a decent character that you've not
even got a champion in that unit according to the maybe there is,
but you know, we haven't. But it's I haven't done all the
worked out all the points. I just worked out the points for
the rank and file. Maybe there is a champion in
there, but it's not noted on the roster.
That happened a little bit in the report.
You didn't necessarily list everything but say so a pretty
flimsy unit guarding it. He needs to send everything he
possibly can secure that too. Yeah.
So he needs to say so if he's going to, if we, if we go with
the army list he's picked, he needs to send the chariot and
the revenites and the he said everything fast over there
because he's get there pronto and then use his infantry to
guard his baseline. He doesn't need to guard his
baseline really. If he's sending most things that
way, he's got a moving baseline as it were.
He can use his maybe use his infantry just to guard his
flanks. So he so he says he could have
sent the Phoenix Guard where the revenites and the Turon chariot
are that are kind of covering one flank of of his army.
He could have used infantry for that.
And I absolutely agree. That's absolutely what he should
use. Probably I'd have probably sent
a unit of Spearman, which are a good defensive unit to hold them
up and just not even charge stuff.
I mean, we're talking about he's facing off against the Kirsten
of I mean, he's facing off against on that flank has a unit
of gobbling wolf riders and hope gobbling warriors, which is a
tiny unit and blunderbuss, which have a really short range.
So just stay out of their range. Yeah.
Just stay back, just spank but guard it but don't go all in.
Yeah. So yeah, I guess a bit of a
classic one that I often do myself.
I sort of miss track on the of the objective is if there is one
is go for the the battle more or less to.
Yeah, it's the fun thing to do, isn't it?
Let's be honest and I totally understand why he's done it, but
he could he and what he's trying to do, obviously he's trying to
win the flank as opposed to hold the flank, which is all he
needed to do. And he, I guess he figured that
if he does that, he can just go into the objective later and
clear it up. So.
What they don't say is, well, I don't think they mentioned at
any point that they decided it was a four turn game.
So if it's only four turns, he's only got a very short amount of
time to get to that too, which is what I'm saying.
He said everything fast moving that you can to to defend the
two and he doesn't. Yep.
So the first turn is actually entirely bloodless, no one is
killed at all, and So what happens?
Basically they move up a tiny bit of shooting from a unit of
arches against the blunt about. So I think that's widely
optimistic that he would actually be able to do anything.
It's I guess long range. They moved and tried to kill
some of the. Wolf toughness and heavy armour
to get. Yeah, I mean, I think even did
the statistics, it's like one in 20 that he would kill anything.
So but yeah, because he can't wound the cannon and that's the
most likely thing to hit. So yeah, yeah, one shot but and
I think maybe it's a bit difficult to see on the map, but
all and the the actual photos, but maybe it was the only thing
that he could shoot at. So if that was the case, why
not? Yeah, and then he obviously then
you have high off Hero use the Tasman Hoef and he unleashes the
power of The Tempest and grounds all Flyers for the turn.
Now, if his plan was to use that constantly, why did he take two
Flyers? Maybe.
Oh, I got that spell. It looks really nice.
And of course, as far as the because they also hurt the war
machines, the case was had nastier ones, so.
But it doesn't seem like in the first turn it did anything on
the war machines. So was it.
No, it's I, I think it's in subsequent turns it hits strikes
war machines, but. It's oh, maybe it doesn't do.
Rounds the chaos. Now, obviously what you could do
is cast it each turn as it were in his in his turn and ground
the castle Flyers each turn. That's what he could have done
to attack him. But that takes getting the right
number of magic cards in order to be able to cast it.
Obviously the right number of wins of power cost be able to do
that. So that's a bit of a gamble, But
that's that's what alternative he could have done.
Fly, fly his models in his turn and then cast it, you know, so
cancel the spelling in his own magic phase, but cast it in the
cast off magic phase because obviously in fourth position you
can cast my face and that that would have been or no, it would
have been no cancel it in the castle magic face or he cast it
in his magic face because that would work on the yeah, that
would work in the castle magic fate turn to stop the Flyers
flying. Cancel it.
Then he can fly in his own turn casting.
But still it's it's it's a 3 point power spell.
So three PowerPoints spell. So it's it's costly to cast.
And of course, what if it would have been more aggressive in a
sense? He could have moved up his
wizard further and tried to do some, like a sort of stone or
something. Because.
Yeah, sort of stone on the on the hills that the that the
walls on and move them into the, you know, the hobgoblins,
blunderbuss and, you know, two birds, one stone there.
Yeah, that would have messed it up properly, but.
Literally sort of. Two birds, one stone.
Yeah. Good.
Yeah. So nothing died and on the case
of turn, I don't think there were any casualties either
actually. So because they didn't, it's.
Not one or two. It's nothing, nothing major.
It's, it's, it's pretty much just manoeuvring, isn't it?
And then, then we can talk about what Gary does to secure the
tomb. Yeah, he's a bit more defiant in
that manner. Well, maybe he arguably he's
best close. OK you between them and the and
the ball centres, but on his best close combat unit he sends
marching on a wide manoeuvre with their short short legs
secure the two. He could have sent the unit of
10 hobgoblins or 12 hobgoblins that are quicker and not a point
sink for doing a job that. I guess if he's all got an idea
he needs to defend the two, which he never has to do once
he's secured it, but he seems like a mad choice to put the to
put the cast horse on that job. Yeah, they're not going to do
anything else apart from possibly getting there in the
end and what maybe they do. But yeah, I think you see that a
lot of battles we already some of those we covered the way they
send some poor slow units on a really long track that's going
to take them out of the battle almost entirely.
So they. Have hello run squad.
So they are they're in for a long slog and otherwise they
sort of move up on the facing or sort of slowing down the high of
main force and. Yeah, yeah, Shaker goes off,
doesn't it? And that and sends.
I don't think it has too much effect in this term, but.
Yeah, he says that they studied themselves and stood up.
You know, it's Yeah, the first, the first turn for both arms is
a bit damp. Squib.
Yes, you've got The Tempest going off and I think it
strikes. Yeah, he can't.
He ends at the end of coastal turn 1, so yeah.
So it strikes and does damage on all the war machines pretty
much. Yeah, in the case.
Well, customers and the heels, it does damage on the chariot.
So so not only does the chariot charge you into the unit of
blunderbuss. These are the worst thing you
could charge a chariot at really, but it's also already
damaged by The Tempest as well. So yeah, he's the first few
turns cover either themselves in glory, really, but they're just
nothing. They're nothing turns, if you
know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So we're on to five Turn 2 and well, they sort of keep
advancing. There are no shortages in this
turn either. I think they do a bit of
advancing. The silver hems of trying to
move up to the tomb also in a bit of a.
Round. Don't they round the back?
Yeah, also a roundabout way to skirt the forest and then?
Forward a little bit away from the tomb, which obviously makes
sense because they're trying to get towards the battle and get
involved. I think probably.
And but maybe not getting involved with the the bullet
sentence. Yeah, that's I'd be trying to
stay away from them if anything. So I probably would have stayed
as like backed right up against the tomb.
If anything, move back into the kind of.
Probably that wouldn't end well. The Flyers go flying high at
this point, I believe. Yeah, I think the shooting is
again not very impressive, is it?
Will they kill off the karstwarf on the earth Shaker that's
useful. Oh yeah, yeah, down yeah, but
aside from that, I mean, I think does he get the glamour of tech
lease onto the No, it's not yet. I think he does it in karstwarf
turn Yeah, it's again pretty eventful.
I mean, it's, it's one column, one columns worth of of action
for the high of turn. So it's not, there's not huge
amounts going on, but the castle does cast castle sort of.
It does cast a spell ash cloud to say the highly destructive
wizard cast his first and potentially only spell ash
cloud. Not destructive, but disruptive.
On the yeah. On the Reevenites, Yeah.
Yeah, yeah and still the the casualty count is still very
long Yeah, not much, but that will change so it will yes
little tiny bit of teeth. All right, so the second turn
for the chaos towards and a bit more action you've.
Got the Lord swooping in to take the tomb.
Flies in his ball Taurus and breathes a load of fire on the
arches. Which panic?
No, no, kills Archers. Doesn't panic them yet I don't
think. I think they panic terror.
I think it's not a test. Yeah, bit manoeuvring by the
Kerstorf units, but not huge amounts really going on.
They land a earthquake cannon hit directly or I think it's The
Archers. I think the symbol, yeah, it's
The Archers that are with the main body of the army, not the
ones protecting the tomb. And that is going to disrupt
everything. Well all all the high of
infantry units and the mage. At this point the charity is
pretty much intact, just taking wounds from Tempest.
Not a lot else really happens. There's a death rocket that
kills a Ravenite as well. That's about it, really.
So I guess if we look just that sort of the half turn, half,
half time of the battle, mostly been manoeuvring.
But as we can see the two with the pretty lone over there, they
have the silver hands coming up, but the case of all forces
moving up pretty strong. So that could potentially be a
problem for the files. Yeah, Archers are not going to
be defending that team unless they get really lucky on the
shooting. Yeah, but they already have a
flaming beast in the rear. Yes they do.
Yeah. And I think in in most cases, if
they get into combat with that one, it's it's not going to go
well. So they have they have the job
cut out for them. Let's see.
No, they don't even have a champion to kind of see him off
as it were. No champions take take the wound
and then rank bonus see him off. So standard and rank bones see
him off. So yeah, that's that's not going
to end well. Yeah, it's, it's looks pretty
like undecided at this point. It's not any, you know, in, in
some cases in these better ports, you can see that.
OK, this is definitely going one way or another, but not really
so far. We'll see what happens.
So I guess we'll just have another short break and meet up.
A little while Thank you for listening to the Chronic Men
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Podcast. OK, back again from a short
break and we had mostly covered the two first terms, not all not
going on, but it's it's getting hotter, I'd say.
So no shardiest yet, but at least a few casualties.
Last turned from mostly the castles.
They kill a few with the the Earthshaker and the Taurus
toasted the sun arches, yes, but now we are getting into the real
battle. So yeah, there's a few charges
coming from the high offs on the the left flank.
So the Rivas charges. The yeah, the Rivas charged the
homecoming wolf riders the chariot and the eagle rider
charged the blunderbuss takes out the hero or or not here
through the champion on the chariot with standard fire.
Yeah, the BSB, yeah. Which is kind of predictable.
Yeah, definitely. I think that was because like
you said, the London buses, they have a short range, but within
that range you can very much predict what's going to happen,
which why so at least hits. So he should have been able to
conclude that that's not probably not going to end well.
Either the horses will be killed or you know, the one wound.
Very expensive character in this case because he had a 100 points
banner would get killed. I think there's even a chance
because because the strength of the bus goes up the number of
ranks you have, there's even a thick remote admittedly, but
chance he could destroy the chariot as well.
So it's, yeah, I don't think it was ever going to be a viable
charge, that one. You know it's.
It's yeah. But there we go.
Anyway. It's, you know, it's a charge he
makes. And I'm not trying to criticize
him in any way, shape or form because, you know, you probably
know, you know, he's probably a better general than I'm, you
know, 99.9% of the time. So Lord knows I don't want to
criticize him, but it's to me it seems like a gamble that wasn't
worth it. No.
And especially with that very expensive unity, it was just the
chariot, I think maybe you, yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
A2 knot charioteer who has the same number of wounds but
without the battle, the battle banners, the, you know, the
crime, the 100% + 100 points plus the 50 points for the army
standard as well. And it's in effect 50 points for
the champion as well. Yeah, it's it's it's 200 extra
points on top of that chariot that I just wasted, really,
which is a shame. It's a shame.
I mean yeah OK if he connected probably would have done, but
the eagle rider and the chariot hit in do the damage anyway so
the battle banner isn't even needed there so.
And how how does that work like rules wise both in the case of
because the the the rider or the charity is can buy the standard
shoots and I never used Chariots at this point I only played
against them. But does it continue?
Does it say or did it happen? But.
It was if you shot a unit of cavalry or unit of infantry.
If some of the models are killed, you still complete the
charge. So in this case I think if the
horses had been killed, maybe the charge doesn't happen.
The horses hadn't been killed, they were alive.
So movement wise and the charge was committed to, so the rider
or charity had set the direction of the charge.
So I think it's perfectly acceptable.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's. Yeah, works definitely, but.
If they'd survived, if the horses had survived, what the
chariot does from there on is debatable.
Yeah, because it can't go anywhere else, I suppose.
Because they don't. Yeah, we could, But would the
horses really be charging into things?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Would it be random or random? Yeah, but because it would have
been a bit strange if it still would have worked mostly like an
insect shariat even without the rider.
That would have been a bit a bit of stretch.
I don't know. And it's kind of an obstructive
piece of scenery, maybe. I don't know.
So happens you've got the general charging the wizard up
high. So the general's already flying
up the high off generals already flying up there high of Lord,
and the wizard Lord from the castles had flown up high.
So then the general in the sky, it's already there, can charge
the guy that's just gone flying high.
So you can't charge up into combat.
You can charge up high and then charge once you're flying high.
So yeah, that happens. And that's obviously decisive,
although they do do all that being locked in combat and
that's not the case with. No, I I thought about that as
well because they sort of just do a glancing hits and then they
separate and so staying what isn't the thing really and like
how he's combat. Was he's dramatic and you know,
he's he's definitely flavourful A narrative to keep him up
there. You know, the really speaking,
the Sorcerer Lord was most likely to lose that combat
unless he gets spells off. So you could argue really maybe
Gary should have disengaged and brought his sorcerer Lord back
down. She never got up in the 1st
place probably and it possibly you know because he also he can
only cast spells out other things that are flying high.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's definitely limiting him
and his five. Yeah, you can still use dispels
for stuff that's going on the battlefield, but you can't cast
spells on things on the battlefield.
So yeah, it was questionable going up there choice for me in
this in this term. OK, yes, you've got the elves
that flee from the Bull Taurus from terror, but the weird
choice for me is turning the silver Helms around to face the
Bull Taurus, not the Bull Centaurs.
I would have carried on going towards the team, but again, I'm
not trying to criticize Robin, but I think that's a that's a
mistake. Yeah, because the bull centers,
I mean, they're definitely a dangerous unit, but they weren't
like immediately starting anything at that point.
So they. Could remember your objective,
What's the objective of the games to get to and protect that
now? OK maybe he's thinking more.
Don't really fancy 1 silver albums against the bull tourist.
And you know the Bull tourist has got a lot longer range for
its charges. Probably get the charging, it's
the silver hounds, but maybe just go behind the wood for now.
Yeah, get in place to come to come round the edge or
something. But yeah, I don't know if that's
the best choices made there, but it's choice to make.
So there we go. Yes.
Else kind of moves around a little bit at some point.
I can't refuse in this term. They do take another wound off
of the Earth Shaker crew. So just down to 1, I think.
Is this done down to what? Yeah, it will be so just down to
1. Crewman, Crewman.
So that's useful for that because that's reducing the rate
of fire for it. But yeah, the the maneuvering of
the units just aren't really going very far very fast because
of the Earth shape or just generally because they're
infantry and they've had to move on from the board edge.
They've not started 12 inches in having to cover those 12 inches
before they can start doing anything else really.
So yeah, they're they're just kind of manoeuvring to try and
get in a position, but it's mainly the charges that are
effective in this turn. Yeah.
And there is one thing I was thinking about regarding the
charge because the high of the the general and the charge broke
the blunderbusses and it doesn't say anything about the hope
governing units around taking any panic test because no, it
doesn't. And I mean maybe they didn't
include it and they passed, but that's quite unlikely because
they don't have a very impressive leadership.
So maybe they missed it, I don't know, but would have been.
Well, what you can say is they didn't break.
No, they didn't break. That's because they didn't roll.
They didn't like mold. Or they were very lucky.
Why does that significant? The warriors not doesn't really
matter too much. They're you know, it's a very 12
warriors not going to do huge and by the photo and obviously
it's only the photo which was staged later on.
Yeah, it's like Polaroids during the game and then later on.
So we don't know if they were deployed like this, but the way
they're deployed at the moment, they're not looking like they're
going to be doing huge amounts of damage.
And I'm also, I'm done. Just let me quickly check on how
many were there. Yeah.
So the other thing I don't quite get by the photo.
Yeah, that's that. And again, staged photo after
the game. I know there's only 10
blunderbuss in his army list. That's the year 12.
Because. In three ranks is 4.
Yeah, I don't know a few inconsistencies here, but yeah,
they died anyway. So the buses, but they did their
thing, so they took out the they.
Took out the chariot. Yeah, they took out two.
So they they made their points. Yeah.
Yeah, is is the thing. So so taking out the chariot and
yeah, they but they died horribly.
So the eagle called a couple, the chariot killed a couple, I
think, and then the hero killed 1 and yeah, they just broke and
fled and were chopped down by the eagle rider, the hobgoblin
wolf riders and the revised. That was kind of a stalemate
combat. The the height was won it but
the goblins didn't run and the in the skies it's pretty much
tit for tap isn't it in the sky? Yeah, if you wouldn't stay on
there, but nothing decisive in at that point, so.
There's a couple of wounds on the Griffin, which is important.
No, it's not important because it actually might have any
effect on the game in the end, but it's potentially important
in the two wings in the Griffin. It's, it's something, I think
it's a four wound animal, so it's down to half wounds.
Yeah, and of course in in a flying high battle, it's very
much an obligatory to try to kill them if you can.
Yes, which which you know, Robin goes for the sorcerer Lord
rather than but yes, so so that's kind of a tit for tat.
They each do a couple of wins, I think, and at that point they
could break, but they don't break apart and.
No, no breaking the combat so. Yeah.
And then in the magic terms, for some reason the Hyos decided to
train magic. I'm not sure why they would want
to do that at that point, because the KS dwarf saucer was
flying up high, so he wouldn't do all the much.
So I'm a little bit uncertain why that would have been a good
idea. Yeah, except they've got a weird
lightning bolt going from the silver Helms to the torch to the
bulls and tours. But that's the banners.
Yeah, yeah. But that happens in the magic
phase, does it not? Or does it happen in the hand to
hand combat phase? Magic phase should be yeah.
Yeah. So they don't mention it.
Or maybe it's just misplaced that it should have been in.
Maybe even before the drain magic happened.
Yeah. OK, I.
Don't know. Yeah, but they decide not to
cost any more of their own magic, so yeah.
Yes, well, he drains magic to save his general, doesn't he?
Because he's worried about, he knows that the chaos tool has
been storing up power and power and he rolls a high number on
the winds. But so just note, we're going to
out, we're going to end it. Yeah, probably, yeah.
So All right, so that what's that then moving on to if we're
done with the house, the cast and they finally get a few
charges or at least one charge going.
So it's the bull Santos charging the Silver House.
Yes, and the general also flies over, doesn't he?
And continues breathing fire. Yeah, good use of points there.
You know, he potentially could have charged with him on
something, but he he decides to stay, go for the safe option.
Yeah. I mean, he has the 24 inches.
It's a bit hard to, you know, measure ranges on these laps,
but he would have been able to get to something.
You'd have thought, yeah, he he, he could have, but anyway, he
makes that choice. Fair enough.
And the, the the high, often the, the silver Helmand and like
Ball Central's, that's the one, yeah.
It's a bit of a stalemate combat as well.
It doesn't, you know, Doesn't really go either way as such.
No, but I think in in most cases the bull centers would have the
upper hand in that. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The silver ones need to charge to get the strength bonus to be
able to wound the ball centers. Without the charge, it's a bit,
yeah. You would expect a war of
attrition. You'd expect the ball centers to
win. Although that said, they do only
have light armour. They just have the Shields.
But if they're using their great weapons or double handed
weapons, then they're not getting the shield bonus.
So. But that softness should see
them through in two wounds. Toughness and wounds should see
them through. Yeah, I mean they have a
definite advantage because they will wound to the heights on or
is it Jesus, Yeah, 2 some the heights would only wound on A5 I
guess on the. Yeah, I think they're, I think
they're equal weapon skills as well, so.
Yeah, yeah. It's not going.
To be 4 plus, then two plus for the ball centaurs, whereas it's
somewhat 5 plus for the silver helm.
So silver helm is a definitely a massive disadvantage in that
combat, sadly, Yeah, yeah. And then I said the ball said
the ball Taurus fires fires off his fire as it were, kills some
Archers, but they don't route and up in the skies.
I think that's when I think this is the term.
When the this is turn, he actually does the deed and kills
him off. Or is it?
Yeah, he does. Yeah.
He kills the sorcery in this turn.
So the sorcerer cast 1 spell in the entire game, killed off by
just the normal sort of tech, let's say normal 100 points
sword. He's killed off by the sword
technically wielded by the high off general and the Griffin
takes another wound. So now it's getting dangerous
time. Now it's getting to the the
Lamassu kill takes a wound off the Griffin.
So now the the higher off general is in trouble because
he's he's down to one wing. But again, in his turn, he could
have just, yeah, he could have just landed on the battlefield,
which we probably would have been, you know, maybe charged
down into the ball. Taurus.
Yeah, and I mean, even if it would have stayed up high, they
still wouldn't have a round of battle in the high of town.
They would just hover around if they wanted.
To yeah, exactly. So, you know, but there we go.
That's that's obviously you felt the Lamassi was still a
dangerous thing that in the cows suit cows to turn, he could come
down and do some damage. So he decides to see off to, you
know, in the next turn, not to jump ahead, but he decides to
deal with the Lamassi. So yeah, it's at this point it's
looking like an OK if you ignore the the the victory conditions
for the the game, the team straight battle wise, the
highway actually looks winning. Yeah, the Bob goblin Wolfridis
did kill the Ribbonites, but not yeah, Yeah, because.
They're not what they're going to sweep around and do damage
to. They're not.
So it's not really a worry. You know the infantry is still
there to hold the line and. Yeah, and now they have almost
total magic domination. For a little while they could
have employed it more effectively, but that didn't
really happen. Yeah.
So at this point, high of turn 4, turn four, Yeah, high of turn
4. The Phoenix Guard have done
nothing. The spear men have done nothing.
One year of Archers have run away and done nothing else.
Yeah. And the I don't think the bolt
throw has done a whole lot either.
Killed, I think that. I think it was the bolt throw
that killed off another member of the Earth Shaker crew.
Yeah, yeah, did have a slight effect.
So bad. Yeah, 50 points.
I'm not like that. That's quite a good return on
50. If you view the Earth shaking
cannon as being 150, I think it's 140.
Let's say it's 150. Just to round it up, they killed
one of the crews, they've done 1/3 of the damage so therefore
it's made it's points ish. Yeah.
But yeah, but three of the units do nothing and where the other
unit launches don't do a lot either.
So the majority of the Hayabami doesn't do much.
No, the infantry doesn't do much at all.
It's just the the characters do most of the heaven lifting.
Yes, you know, wasn't usually unusual in these times, but.
Yeah, so it's, yeah, I was in council turn 3, aren't we this.
But yeah. So yeah, that's that's kind of
what's what's happening. Council turn 3.
And then high of turn 4, we see the demise of the death Rocket,
where the Eagle Rider charges in and and takes out the Death
rocket. We see the high off wizard
charge the bull Taurus, which is suicidal, but we know what magic
items she's got. And the silver Helms are beaten
in combat with the Bull centaurs and they they run away, don't
they? They don't cover themselves in
glory there. Yeah.
And this is the turn that the general also uses the power of
the sword detectors to. Yeah.
To bring the Lamassu down. Nothing is the wizard charged
in, but she does manage to kill, luckily, the castle of General.
This is the last hit. Yeah, fairly, I suppose,
depending on how many hits you've got.
She probably didn't hit that many times.
To be fair, she's only won skill 4.
He's won skill 7. So we didn't hit that many
times. But I guess it it it gets around
the issue of his toughness of five if you don't need to roll
for toughness. Yeah, that's still a leadership
of 10, so we still have to be better.
Lucky for the skull of warms. Yeah, obviously there's a chance
of it, but it's it's not a high percentage chance.
I always think the best thing to put the skull wander of Calath
onto or Calath Calath onto is a undead character in a unit with
the hell banner. And if you can see the banner of
dooming as well for good measure, that's.
Yeah, that's going to be nasty. Yeah, definitely going to stack
your chances. So yeah, that's a pretty bloody
melee because they end up killing each other basically.
Yeah, the yes, the the great Taurus Bolton, what it's called,
kills the mage, which then sets off the heart of why, which
slices up the Unicorn and the and the Great Taurus.
Yeah. So nothing left.
Yeah, nothing left in that, but just big red stains everywhere.
Yeah, It doesn't seem they were close enough to any other units
to sort of splatter. If you look at the photos, it
wouldn't look like that like that, but yeah, absolutely.
The yeah, the the map makes it look like the ball centre should
have got a little bit of splatter damage, as it were.
Yeah, maybe the Spearman as well if you look at it, but clearly
not. So yeah, at this point we're
running pretty low on characters.
Both the Chaos Dwarf characters are well, the.
Homes, well, the homes still got the general and they've still
got the eagle rider. So this is what I'm saying.
If it was a if it was a slugging out battle, that's Robbins
mistake, isn't it? If it was a slug out battle,
he's won it hands down. I think at this point got a lot
left. They've got the biggie curse of
warriors, obviously, Well say big 16.
They do still have their balls and tours admittedly.
I mean one of the Flyers could take them out.
They still got magic. The high holes, the house, the
wolf rides are probably a pretty pathetic unit.
I think I've got like 2 models left.
Yeah, and then game-winning unit of 12 hole Goblins.
Yeah, and they still have the on the.
High off is pretty much intact because he's done bugger roll.
Yeah. So I think like you said, if you
just look at the board, it looks very promising for the high
offs. If there would have been another
turn, they would have definitely continued to gain the up.
And I think the bull centre's dangerous, but they're not in
position to charge anything where they can send off the
silver arms, but they are facing the wrong way.
So they're not going to threaten the main force.
But of course, none of that matters because it's all about
the objective. Correct.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, Castro turn 4, not a lot
really happens. So you have another shaker shot
does go off, but doesn't really do anything.
The high off, that's right. The Castro's marching on the
tombs. They claim that, thereby winning
the game. The centaurs chase after the
silver Helms but don't really do that much line themselves up
potentially for a charge in the flank, maybe by the Spearman.
And then the the eagle rider kills off the remaining wolf
riders. Like I know he kills off one of
them and and routes breaks the rest, doesn't he?
Yeah. And of course what I guess they
didn't commit anything during the last two terms to really
handle the objective. So the case was really need to
do all that. Well that's what I mean, it
could have been the chaos, the council could have been in the
centre doing damage to someone and you could have just sent the
hobgoblins, hobgoblin warriors. That small unit could have
claimed the objective. Or I suppose he didn't
necessarily know that so he sent something that could clear out
the objective if it met resistance because the hobgoblin
warriors wouldn't have cleared anything out, let's be honest.
So I get why he sent the chaos towards, but in hindsight it
looks like overkill sending the chaos towards for that.
Because they never do anything except winning the game in a
sense. But they don't.
Except winning the game. So that seems a little bit daft
my friend. But but but yeah, you're
absolutely right. They they don't contribute to
the battle other than right at the end claiming the objective,
which I guess is he kept the objective in mind.
Yeah. And and also, of course, that
wasn't sort of a a huge surprise.
They suddenly appeared there out of the blue because they had
been doing that all the the. Entire game.
Yeah, it was. Latently obvious that they were
going to end up there and Robin didn't really do anything to
prevent it so I think yeah. So yeah, tactical win or sort of
the the battlefield was won by the so at least dominated.
But they took Robin, totally forgot about the objective or
didn't care. Yes.
And and I said Wizards weren't really, I guess the high off
Wizards were affected. I mean, so you had two high off
Wizards versus 1 council, which normally you'd expect the high
also to dominate because of that.
But the Castro was a level 5. So a lot of points invested in
in Magic for not really making use of it.
But again, but Gary won the game.
So he doesn't it's a material. It's you know, it's you know, he
stuck to his plan. He kept the objective in mind,
which does kind of that does hint towards he's more of a
other form of war game rather than fantasy war rather than
Warhammer, because he's keeping objective in mind.
And that's, you know, if there's objective based game, you've
always got to do that and not doing that probably loses you
the game, which is what happened doing with Robin obviously.
You know, go for the fun. Interesting thematic clashes.
So yeah, so I guess. It's pretty.
It's a nice light up.
There's lots of character in there talking about, you know,
what goes on between the characters and what they're
doing. Yeah, no, I like it as a battle
report. It's.
Absolutely. Yeah, and it's a scenario, which
is nice, and it's one I might attempt to put on a boil at some
point in order to do it. Not the easiest 1 to get if you
want to get the not original. The original now, yeah.
And it is an even battle or all. It's not like there is sort of
tension until the end or anyway. So yeah, a good one.
Yeah, I think probably if you were to add victory, I never, we
normally in games that I play, one person surrenders and that's
how we do victory. We don't really do victory
points. But I think if you added up
victory points, it's probably closer than it looks on victory
points. Ohio's have got it for sure
makers of the big points sink of the of the sorcerer and the Lord
are both dead. But yeah, I don't think it's
clearly that. And the only I think that really
really clearly is the winner said is the is the objective and
the fact the cast also have have claimed it therefore also win
for them. So no need to count victory
points at this. Yeah, exactly.
A lovely lead and very, you know, very narrative and yeah,
really, really nice to see. Yeah.
The next not to allude to anything, I think the next
battle report is Chaos Dwarfs again.
Would elves? Biting elves again?
Yeah. Would elves?
So Robin tries a second crack at beating Chaos Dwarfs.
How likely shall we? Yes, quite a different one from
this one. I think that should be
interesting. Yeah, so good fun.
Definitely worth looking into if you haven't this particular
battle. It's like we said in the White
Wolf 164, if you want to look it up if you don't have it.
Not right at the back either. I mean, it's all kind of appears
maybe just over halfway through, so there's actually normally
this is weird nerd knowledge. What about the last thing before
the catalog pages? Yeah, they have a modelling
article as well, so yeah, but you will find it if you have the
White Wolf, it's not hidden away.
Yeah. So good fun, really nice battle.
Like I said, a lot of pretty pictures and a lot of
interesting reading. So get into it.
Very good. Cool.
Right. So that's it, I think for us
today. And so have a lovely Sunday and.
And chill next time will do enjoy, have fun.
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