1
00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:10,320
All right, so welcome to this. 
I don't know which one in the 

2
00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,000
number of recordings this one 
is. 

3
00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:18,240
Is it a or something maybe? 
Something like that, yeah. 

4
00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,440
Yeah, we're going through them 
and there's not too many left of

5
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,880
this one, but we do a couple 
catching up. 

6
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,000
I think we're going to do the 
Chaos Dwarfs at some point. 

7
00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,080
We will, yeah. 
Wood Elves will be next. 

8
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,440
Then we've got Kells Dwarfs. 
Then I don't know whether it's 

9
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,680
going to be a combined White 
Book and Britannia or just 

10
00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,960
Britannia and then a white, but 
I don't, I don't know. 

11
00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:41,600
Not sure A. 
Few special ones. 

12
00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,360
Yeah, Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

13
00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,800
And today we're joined by George
Dunham. 

14
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:52,640
Quite happy to have him on 
because I think many of you 

15
00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:57,680
might have seen his blended dark
Elf army so much. 

16
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,720
Much of an inspiration for me. 
So George, welcome. 

17
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,280
And I thought maybe you could 
start by talking a little bit 

18
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,480
about how you get into the hobby
and the Dark elves in 

19
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,800
particular. 
Yeah, thanks a lot Mathias for 

20
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,800
the the kind introduction and 
the kind words about my work. 

21
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:21,960
That's I'm very happy to be here
and here to contribute with some

22
00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:24,440
knowledge about about the dark 
airs. 

23
00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,760
Excellent. 
And so when did you start? 

24
00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:33,760
Did you start back in fourth or?
It's in in fifths to be to be 

25
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,240
exact. 
It's like dark airs itself was a

26
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,480
bit late to the party. 
So it's, I've grown up in the 

27
00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,320
West of Germany on, on the 
countryside, very far away from 

28
00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:50,120
bigger cities. 
And so it, it took its time 

29
00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:53,520
until Games Workshop appeared in
this region. 

30
00:01:55,400 --> 00:02:03,800
So even I've so I I've came into
a hobby with with few requests 

31
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,039
before, but when there was a 
longer break and when I I 

32
00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:14,440
stumbled across a flyer, an 
advertisement flyer in in in a 

33
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:20,080
normal game store and I was 
fascinated by the miniatures and

34
00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:25,040
was already primed by hue Crest.
So this force on very rude 

35
00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:33,600
foreground and it's I've get the
second flyer and yeah, it's how 

36
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,760
so often in in in in in my life 
and something interests me. 

37
00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:42,440
I did get it deep dive and I've 
looked and stared on these 

38
00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:48,320
Flyers for hours and and one 
time in school people said, Oh 

39
00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:53,360
yeah, that's warhammer, You 
should talk to Florian and and 

40
00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:58,200
and Spen they play. 
Oh, OK, it's nice information 

41
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,080
and yes, excellent. 
And I and I get in contact with 

42
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,320
them. 
I ask and and then they I get 

43
00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,080
from them the the 5th edition 
rule book and the peace cherry 

44
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:15,680
and that was the next I stared 
for hours and and already in the

45
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:20,920
best year we bought about OK, 
what army I could. 

46
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,600
I'm interested in what army I 
could imagine to play and and 

47
00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:31,600
it's yeah, quickly reduced to to
two armies. 

48
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:40,000
It was chaos and and dark elves 
and definitely, but I was 

49
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,400
impressed by both because of the
dragon miniatures, which were 

50
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:50,640
really stunning centrepieces. 
And yeah, and my starring took 

51
00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:55,040
for so many hours, but my family
and my my girlfriend at at time 

52
00:03:55,040 --> 00:04:04,280
point decided to yeah, give me 
with my my first talk of army. 

53
00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,680
That was in Christmas 1998. 
Wow, excellent. 

54
00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,840
So yeah, it's been, has been 
Dark Elf ever since. 

55
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,160
So have you straight into other 
armies as well or? 

56
00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:20,560
Straight straight into dark EFS.
So it's it's, it's, it have 

57
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,960
started with dark EFS and it's 
since that it's really my my, my

58
00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,120
biggest love in Warhammer hobby.
That's great. 

59
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,920
So did you get into painting 
straight away or was that 

60
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,800
eventually? 
There was because also there 

61
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:40,280
were not less people which with 
ability, which like that for 

62
00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:43,920
playing. 
And it was also very busy time 

63
00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:48,800
with, with, with ending school. 
I was already yeah, concentrated

64
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:55,200
on, on, on painting. 
And painting was always a big 

65
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,200
thing in my life. 
So it's also earlier. 

66
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:03,800
I painted a lot of things. 
Also I painted some build and 

67
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:08,240
paint some Star Wars kits. 
So always a big fan of * 

68
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,360
destroyers and. 
Yeah, I see something in the 

69
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,800
background there. 
Oh, great pieces. 

70
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,000
And yeah, so so so all started. 
Yep. 

71
00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,480
So have you been active ever 
since? 

72
00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,760
So have you had breaks during 
the? 

73
00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:33,280
Yeah, sure, at the beginning I 
really painted a lot and my my 

74
00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:35,720
painting style was also a bit 
bit simpler. 

75
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,800
So it's I was able to paint more
miniatures in, in, in shorter 

76
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,800
time spans and I painted very, 
very big dark Elf army of 4th 

77
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,480
5th edition in the first few 
years in hobby. 

78
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:55,560
And then there was already the 
change to 6th edition and yeah, 

79
00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,520
and it's it's with with better 
and better skills. 

80
00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:06,840
Also in converting and 
sculpting, I concentrate and 

81
00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:11,520
concentrated more on on less 
miniatures also started for 

82
00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:16,320
competition level. 
And during this time it was 

83
00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,840
really reduced to a couple of 
miniatures each year. 

84
00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,640
Yeah, and I think we see the 
result on the top of your 

85
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,920
cabinet as there is. 
It is a couple of golden demon. 

86
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:28,680
Yeah. 
Oh, they're. 

87
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,920
Oh my God, you're not seeing 
this. 

88
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,080
But I don't know how many it is.
A dozen. 

89
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,800
At least there's. 
A lot it Yeah, it humbles. 

90
00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,600
Yeah, I think we. 
It's not. 

91
00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:48,080
It's 1919 golden demons. 
Oh my God, yeah, it was. 

92
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:54,040
Yeah, IIA couple of years. 
I I realised that it's really 

93
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,720
it's it's it's a lot. 
So it's then if if you go only 

94
00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:03,360
by number, I'm very I'm I'm in 
in in the top ranking lists. 

95
00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,280
So it's but it's it's it's only 
numbers. 

96
00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:10,520
So it's yeah, you can get a 
Slayer sort. 

97
00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:13,640
But there's definitely a reason 
you have them. 

98
00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,120
So yeah, it's great to see. 
I I never seen any in the flesh.

99
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:21,280
So you have this really cool. 
So do you still have your big 

100
00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,120
army from back in the day? 
No. 

101
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:29,560
I I I sold it two years ago. 
Wow, OK. 

102
00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:38,000
Yeah, also 2. 
So 1 1/2 year ago we decided to 

103
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:39,560
move. 
So we. 

104
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:47,600
We, we, our second child was on 
its way and it was clear that we

105
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:54,680
have to change apartments so to 
have space for, for everyone. 

106
00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,880
And also that, that I have my, 
my, my own space here as well. 

107
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,760
It makes necessary to move. 
And it was also clear that I 

108
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:10,720
have to reduce my hobby space. 
And so it was it it, it was, it 

109
00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:16,360
was part of a deal to reduce a 
bit the cabinet space. 

110
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:21,960
And it's yeah. 
And it also something which 

111
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:27,920
which influenced this decision 
was that I'm, I'm, I was, I was 

112
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,520
offered a very special piece. 
It's. 

113
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,320
You can see here. 
Yeah. 

114
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:38,440
That's a classic piece if you 
can just describe it for the 

115
00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,640
listeners what it is. 
Yeah, it's it's what original 

116
00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:49,360
Dave Gallagher artwork of his 
were in poison plate artwork. 

117
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:55,400
Yeah, it's and it's, it's a 
magnificent piece and also of 

118
00:08:55,400 --> 00:09:02,000
Dark F history and yeah, I get a
great chance and yeah. 

119
00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:07,960
And it was also, it was also 
part of a deal to do, to do to 

120
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,000
pay it without going to the 
savings. 

121
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:11,880
So it's yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, I understand. 

122
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:13,240
Perfect. 
So yeah. 

123
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:18,400
So for you who can't see it, we 
had a quick view of George Hobby

124
00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,000
Room and yeah, a lot of 
interesting stuff. 

125
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,280
Definitely. 
Right. 

126
00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:28,040
So yeah, here we are today and 
you're still at it. 

127
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:35,400
And if we maybe look a little 
bit back in time, Dave is our 

128
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,400
guy for the What happened before
4th I. 

129
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,960
I'm really glad you didn't say 
expert because certainly not one

130
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,520
of those guy that that's I can 
handle that. 

131
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,680
That attack, that's good, I 
think I can do. 

132
00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,640
Invitation with that one. 
And just about a year ago I 

133
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:59,040
actually got up my hand off like
quite a few 3rd edition Dark Elf

134
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,360
minis. 
So they're quite nice, quite 

135
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,640
distinctive. 
On 4th edition, you don't 

136
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:07,120
really, it's very easy to 
recognise what what's what. 

137
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:12,440
So yeah. 
So what's your experience or 

138
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,880
impression of Dark Elf during 
3rd edition? 

139
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,480
Dark Elves. 
There were two articles in White

140
00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,960
Dwarf that really made me love 
those models. 

141
00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,760
I've been slowly building them 
up and I will be painting dark 

142
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:34,560
elf army very soon of that era. 
So 3rd and prior have a very 

143
00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:38,920
different look to them than the 
4th head Dark elves. 

144
00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,920
And there are two articles, like
I said, one is, I don't know the

145
00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:47,200
the issue numbers off the top of
my head, but one, it was a 

146
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:54,400
Marauder army deal that had 
loads of their lovely sculpts in

147
00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:58,400
and lots of cavalry as well. 
And that was a vision. 

148
00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,360
You know, the, the Marauderama 
deals were great because they 

149
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,040
were painted miniatures they 
showed you and it wasn't the 

150
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:09,760
ones they used in nor their 
normal photos in Wolf. 

151
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,720
They didn't really have studio 
armies at that point and such, 

152
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:14,640
but they weren't the ones using 
the normal photos. 

153
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,400
And it just, it was 
jaw-dropping. 

154
00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,000
It was absolutely gorgeous. 
Very. 

155
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:24,720
Colourful. 
Yeah, and then there was also, I

156
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:28,040
can't remember the the chap's 
name, but there was, there was a

157
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,880
small 1000 point Dark Hill Farm 
in it's something like issue 144

158
00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,120
or something like that. 
It's the one with the corn 

159
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,320
berserker on the front, the 
classic corn berserker used on 

160
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,240
used on at least one of the 
Warhammer albums. 

161
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:48,280
It's and and it's got this 1000 
point Dark elf army and it's 

162
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,880
it's a lovely little army. 
It's it's phenomenally painted 

163
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,000
and just really cool. 
And I used to work out this a 

164
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:58,960
similar army. 
This is thirdly, it's a third 

165
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:05,200
edition army. 
I used to work out the list in 

166
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,280
4th edition as well. 
And you could pretty much do it 

167
00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:09,600
was pretty much points for 
points. 

168
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:15,880
It's not far off, same point as 
cost, almost literally the same 

169
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:17,840
points costs, but just a nice 
little force. 

170
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:18,960
And so that's where I'm going to
begin. 

171
00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:23,080
I'm going to paint that up. 
Do you have the minutes now or? 

172
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,440
I do, yeah. 
I've got, I've got them, just 

173
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,320
got to paint them. 
So hopefully that's going to be 

174
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:34,280
either tail end of this year, so
sort of August onwards, or early

175
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,240
next year. 
So I'll do it so it can be used 

176
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,200
in both 4th edition and 3rd. 
It. 

177
00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,480
Can be used. 
It'll probably be able to be 

178
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,760
used in 6th as well, which is 
the other edition I tend to 

179
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,560
play. 
You know, those are my 3 core U 

180
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,840
editions and pretty much the 
same models can be used. 

181
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,920
The only body contention might 
be Dark Riders, which seems to 

182
00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:01,240
be in almost every edition of of
of Warhammer. 

183
00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:10,400
If you like the giant elf horse 
model, then you're OK with dark 

184
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,840
riders. 
If you don't, dark riders 

185
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,720
difficult. 
But interestingly in the in the 

186
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,200
third lists for dark elves, 
you've got 2 choices of horse 

187
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,080
rider. 
You had two, you had two cold 

188
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:30,200
ground riders and two horse 
rider types. 

189
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,520
So the so if you remember we 
talked about before in the 3rd 

190
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:38,800
edition, you had plus elites. 
So plus 1 + 2 + 3 and all +4 and

191
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,880
all those were additions to 
stats for each plus you got a 

192
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,240
different stat went up by 1 now,
so +2 it had two combat had two 

193
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:52,240
additions plus three had three. 
So the the cold one nights with 

194
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,200
the +3 and plus one shock 
elites. 

195
00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,680
So so you had hell drakes and 
doom drakes. 

196
00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,480
So hell, Drakes were the were 
the elite of the elite and doom 

197
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,880
drakes were the plus one elites 
and then your two levels of 

198
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,200
horse cavalry, Doomsdays and 
dark riders. 

199
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,320
Doomsdays +2 elites and dark 
riders plus one elite rather 

200
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:12,320
plus one. 
No, they're not. 

201
00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:13,920
They're not elites. 
They're just bog standard dark. 

202
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,840
Oh, sorry. 
Yeah, plus ones with other cold 

203
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,480
one nights. 
But both of them could have 

204
00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,200
barding. 
So so you could have heavier 

205
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,560
sort of missile troops, although
dark riders didn't have to 

206
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:27,880
missile troops. 
They came to stand with a hand 

207
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,720
weapon like armour and shield. 
And then you could give them 

208
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,960
barding, You could give them 
crossbows. 

209
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,360
You give them repeating 
crossbows or lances. 

210
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,400
So repeating crossbows weren't 
as standard for any dark elf 

211
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:40,440
troops. 
They were. 

212
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,000
They were an upgrade to their 
crossbow. 

213
00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,880
And with a lot of them you could
give them crossbows or upgrade 

214
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,520
to repeating crossbows. 
And in actual fact, each of the 

215
00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,240
cavalry types, all four of those
didn't come with crossbows. 

216
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,080
We could give them crossbows or 
upgrade. 

217
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,200
To repeated crossbow. 
So. 

218
00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:59,560
So they they could all be 
missile troops. 

219
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:01,800
All of them. 
OK, so could tailor. 

220
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,000
That weird for any cavalry, for 
any army, all of them could be 

221
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,360
missile troops. 
Not not high elves. 

222
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,200
I don't even would always get 
that as well. 

223
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:10,880
So that's that's unique to dark 
elves. 

224
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,520
All of their cavalry could be 
missile troops. 

225
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:12,880
All right. 
Yeah. 

226
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,320
So George, do do you have an 
experience from the 3rd edition 

227
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,880
minutes? 
Have you painted any? 

228
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,920
Yes, sure. 
It's, it's, if you see this 

229
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,800
small tower here, it's it's, 
it's all future projects. 

230
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,560
OK. 
It it also contains a a a a big 

231
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,840
draw with Fred edition 
miniatures. 

232
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:40,480
And I also yeah, because I'm a 
great fan of work of Ellie and 

233
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,320
and Trish Morrison and me by 
Trish Karl. 

234
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:49,640
I'm I'm I'm totally aware of the
miniature range they created in 

235
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,360
in Fred edition. 
Yeah. 

236
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:57,120
And you talked the different 
choices dog writers and so on. 

237
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:02,520
They appear in later edition 
where the entrance that went 

238
00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:04,880
away or is it basically the same
stuff It's. 

239
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,440
Pretty much the shade the same. 
You had shadows instead of 

240
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,120
shades or dog with scouts. 
Yes they were called shadows in 

241
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:13,800
this edition but they were the 
scouts. 

242
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,320
You did have beast masters that 
had pack animals. 

243
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,600
So there were you had 
beastmasters. 

244
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,560
They could either have war 
hounds, which were very sort of 

245
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:34,640
Bloodhound style, or they could 
have chaos hounds your your bog 

246
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,880
style. 
What you had to take was you had

247
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,720
to take 20 crossbow men, 40 
warriors, and at least 10 witch 

248
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,440
elves. 
And then there was a Dark of War

249
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,360
altar, which kind of became the 
Cauldron of blood, I guess, in, 

250
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,160
in. 
Yeah, Yeah, I remember that one.

251
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,040
Was it there were guys carrying 
it around and. 

252
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,400
Yeah, absolutely. 
They were witch elves as well. 

253
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,400
So it kind of morphed into the 
Cauldron of Blood, really. 

254
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,319
And they're repeating crossbow, 
sorry, repeating bolt thrower. 

255
00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,920
So there's not that much 
different really between this 

256
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:11,400
list and what came later, other 
than obviously the the 4th 

257
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,440
edition list having additional 
stuff to it. 

258
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,440
Yeah, and you have special 
characters and so on. 

259
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:20,040
No, no, no, no special 
characters. 

260
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,839
And then you could have a you 
could have monstrous hosts, 

261
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:25,520
ethereal hosts, and chaotic 
hosts. 

262
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:28,800
Monstrous hosts. 
You could actually have. 

263
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:31,560
You could have units of cold 
ones on their own in the 

264
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,400
monstrous host, which is weird. 
Oh OK, without dryness so. 

265
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,840
Yeah, exactly. 
And also golden Warhounds, which

266
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,600
I guess kind of alligator sort 
of things, I guess. 

267
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:49,600
And they could have they could 
have harpies, I believe. 

268
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,400
Just give me a second. 
Yeah, they could could have a 

269
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,320
unit of harpies, but that that 
was in their chaotic host 

270
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,960
maximum of six. 
You only get 6 harpies. 

271
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:01,520
So it wasn't like racked up 
things and then allies. 

272
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,080
They were the so they they could
have chaos allies, scathing 

273
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,280
allies, familiar or undead. 
No one saw goblin in there, but 

274
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,400
mercenaries they're allowed 
Nippon hobgoblins and ogres 

275
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,840
those eastern. 
Yeah, well, I guess where 

276
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,480
Negroth is. 
It kind of almost makes sense I 

277
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:26,840
guess, but there was written 
into their background in 3rd. 

278
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,280
Not that it was massively 
extensive. 

279
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,360
There was a fair amount of 
crossover with. 

280
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:37,080
The Asian whammer yeah, and I 
think the aesthetics of the 3rd 

281
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:40,720
edition do have a bit of Eastern
influence in it. 

282
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:45,680
I believe I'm. 
Not so, it's that that'd be an 

283
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:49,960
interesting 1 to pursue. 
Maybe is is like an Eastern I? 

284
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,080
Have some I have some some some 
nice additions to that. 

285
00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:01,680
It's that that beast master and 
beast concept, it was really 

286
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,120
thought at the beginning to take
this into 4th edition where, 

287
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,360
yeah, maybe a bit more than only
ideas. 

288
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:15,680
So this can clear. 
A couple of years ago then Mark 

289
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:22,960
Gibbons showed us some 
unreleased of Dark of Artworks 2

290
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:28,240
which didn't get in the book. 
One is his concept for 

291
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:34,080
assassins, which is very close 
to the Maroda assassins with 

292
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:41,080
that that snake like swords may 
have and yeah, without a cloak 

293
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:45,880
and more in yeah, in in skinny 
clothes. 

294
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:53,040
And the other one was an 
explicit beastmaster artwork 

295
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,920
created for for the book and it 
finally it was decided. 

296
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:02,640
But we did. 
We didn't as a Superbey the 

297
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,040
beastmaster choice made it into 
the book and so it was. 

298
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:14,160
It was never used, but it shows.
The marauder beastman, the 

299
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,800
beastmaster with his two horns. 
It's very very, very nice art. 

300
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:26,320
And they also fought a bit about
develop this concept further, 

301
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:36,080
where there was also the idea of
of, of smaller monsters with the

302
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:43,000
dark F cuts sent into battle. 
And Trish created a small range 

303
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:46,760
of of monsters. 
So we all knew the hippogriff 

304
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,480
Marauder Hippocryph, which was 
released as a single monster was

305
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,760
also an unreleased chimera. 
It's also created around 1994 

306
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:07,760
which was part of this set and a
third one is an is a multi core 

307
00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:14,000
which based on which used the 
Cowers hound which was made. 

308
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,200
Yeah. 
Yeah, I know which model it is 

309
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,000
quite small actually, but. 
Yeah, it's they are all. 

310
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:24,440
Three big yeah, it's kind of in 
between, isn't it? 

311
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,360
It's. 
Yeah, it's, it's so it's it's 

312
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,120
finally this, this one was this 
one ended as a, as a, as a chaos

313
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:38,360
hound. 
But I, I've, yeah, read that 

314
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:44,960
these were planned as, as beasts
sent into into war by the dark 

315
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,400
Earths, but they finally didn't 
like the concept that you have. 

316
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:54,280
They are all winged monsters and
it it doesn't make really sense 

317
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,800
to accompany them with some 
beastmasters and food. 

318
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:06,040
And finally we dropped the idea 
and yeah, only one miniature 

319
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:11,560
made the made it into release 
and one was changed And yeah, 

320
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:19,480
the the chimera is only seen by 
yeah, from time to time. 

321
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:25,880
So it's I think also we're more 
Marauder War Hydra fits also 

322
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:33,600
into that. 
It's only one of the last mini 

323
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,960
issues which concept was was 
followed. 

324
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,840
Yeah. 
So did you get any insight? 

325
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,800
Well, these changes in 
direction, was that the reason 

326
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,600
why the book came out late? 
Did they have to sort of redo 

327
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:57,080
some of the ideas and? 
But it's yeah, I, I, I know that

328
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,920
Ellie produced the first Dark F 
miniatures in 1993. 

329
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,880
So it's a it's a handful of 
miniatures. 

330
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:11,040
He designed it the two the two 
metal sword men, some of the 

331
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:16,440
first miniatures he did. 
I think these were prototypes of

332
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:24,120
stand in for the later plastic. 
The the plastic dark earth was 

333
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:28,840
also I think it was planned for 
the Talisman game. 

334
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,800
The the rules were later 
released in the in the white 

335
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:40,360
dwarf for it, but it it didn't 
never came as an official box. 

336
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:46,840
And in in this regard he also 
did a couple of other miniatures

337
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,640
but was a witch elf so did this 
one one which which stand out 

338
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:59,440
from the released miniatures 
with the cross swords highly 

339
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,080
detailed miniature compared to 
the others. 

340
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:10,000
It was also one of his pieces 
from 1993 and he also created 2 

341
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,880
sorceresses which were 
unreleased and never saw the 

342
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,880
light of the day. 
But you, you have do you have 

343
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,440
all those minutes that? 
You yeah. 

344
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,920
So I can I can show them if you 
if you want. 

345
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,000
Yeah, we can do that outside the
recording, yeah. 

346
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,320
Also good for listeners. 
Yeah. 

347
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:40,680
And also the the first Spearman 
also based on the on these two 

348
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,440
sort men. 
So it's a bit unclear. 

349
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,440
So that's also why the the tabs 
can lie with the dates when they

350
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,880
used for for conversions. 
It's not clear if it's from the 

351
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:59,000
same year or was it was it was 
it changed later? 

352
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:07,760
So, but it's, it's I also think 
that sorry, but I also think 

353
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:13,520
that the first Spearman were 
also some of of his miniatures. 

354
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,680
And it's very interesting that 
you find all these miniatures, 

355
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:23,720
the sorcerers, the witchelf, the
swordman and the Spearman on the

356
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,240
cover from Dave Gallagher for 
the 4th edition book. 

357
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,520
So he used them as reference 
miniatures for creating the 

358
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,560
artwork. 
These are some of the 1st and it

359
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,800
was also the the first artwork 
created from Des Henley was also

360
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,840
for the for the for the sword 
man and Tishi also used this 

361
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,880
miniature for reference. 
So that's that's that was the 

362
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:56,560
early beginning in 1993 and 
yeah, when there was some break,

363
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:03,600
I don't know what what happened.
So it's, I also know that in 

364
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,960
Jervis Johnson worked in 
parallel and Blood Bowl. 

365
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:15,120
So it's and, but and, and at the
beginning it was also that that 

366
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,760
Rick was on the project. 
He handed it over to to Jarvis. 

367
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:26,400
It's yeah, it's I think to 
understand the workflows in the 

368
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,760
studio. 
It's yeah, it's competing 

369
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:33,160
interests. 
So you're always with with 40K 

370
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:39,640
part which and you have limited 
resources and so, yeah. 

371
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,480
Yeah, they got stuck between 
somehow. 

372
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:48,520
Maybe so and it and I think they
started a project when in 1994. 

373
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:54,200
So it's with also Mark Eben 
started doing producing the his 

374
00:26:54,200 --> 00:27:01,360
artworks in in in mid to end in 
1994, but here also without any 

375
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:05,680
reference miniatures. 
So illustrators in most cases 

376
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,000
use the the miniatures as a 
reference. 

377
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:14,360
And when you take a closer look 
at Mark's very fantastic 

378
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:20,120
artworks, you see that they're 
based on the the 3rd edition 

379
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:22,320
miniatures, but were more raw 
miniatures. 

380
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,640
So the Dark F Commander and on 
on on Cold 1 based on the Fed 

381
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:37,520
edition code once his the the 
two unreleased pieces, it's very

382
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,720
obvious that these are more raw 
Diminias. 

383
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:47,480
But also the Scout, for example,
is very close artwork to to a 

384
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:52,120
more raw Scouts. 
And he also said in personal 

385
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,840
communication with me that he 
had a lot of freedom and doing 

386
00:27:55,840 --> 00:28:00,640
the dark elf artworks. 
So normally. 

387
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:08,120
So it it was typical in in in in
the 90s that the projects start 

388
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:14,480
with John Blair doing a big one 
sided piece, putting putting 

389
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,600
everything in it. 
So it's it's also it's also one 

390
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:23,360
as a John Blanche had had such a
piece in the book. 

391
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,760
So it's a big. 
Influence. 

392
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:27,840
Yeah. 
And and this is where the 

393
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:33,440
centrepiece which everything is 
orientated on, on the data 

394
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,560
design. 
But I think this I I don't have 

395
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,280
a date of this artwork, but I 
think it was, was later. 

396
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,680
Mark had a lot of freedom doing 
his art and so he created some 

397
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,760
of the most stunning, you know, 
bohem art pieces. 

398
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,080
Moravi for example. 
Yeah, yeah, there's some great 

399
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,480
pieces. 
It's exceptional. 

400
00:28:55,680 --> 00:29:01,960
So it's he also had think 
freedom for Malekif and yeah, 

401
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:08,520
it's and yeah. 
And at at late in 1994, the 

402
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:15,640
first the first troopers come in
and the the project really 

403
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,040
starts running. 
Yeah. 

404
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,120
So, yeah, excellent insights, 
very interesting. 

405
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,520
Some of I have heard, some I 
haven't. 

406
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,840
So great to be able that you've 
been able to share that. 

407
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,600
The Chronicle Man is proud to be
sponsored by Scott at Black 

408
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,520
Arrow Minis. 
Scott has a range of second hand

409
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,520
miniatures from several 
manufacturers which include 

410
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,600
Citadel, Grenadier, Ralpatha, 
Battletech and many more. 

411
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,840
Collections that I enjoy pouring
over are the old Perry Empire, 

412
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,360
Ally Morrison's Marauder 
Dwarves, and the old metal 

413
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,440
models for Epic Space Marine. 
So go take a look today and head

414
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:05,280
over to Scott's website at 
www.blackarrowminis.com. 

415
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,880
Right. 
So we're back and we had some 

416
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,640
great insights in the sort of 
leading up to 4th edition. 

417
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,680
So that's really good to hear. 
And but then eventually the 4th 

418
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:26,560
edition book dropped and that 
was was it 95 or how was it? 

419
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,720
Would have been around that. 
Yeah. 

420
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,000
It was June. 
Not one of the last few, wasn't 

421
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:32,520
it? 
Yeah. 

422
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,000
Absolutely. 19 June 1995. 
Yep. 

423
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:42,160
There's the expert. 
Yep, and I I'm still to actually

424
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,280
own the physical books so I 
haven't been able to get it yet,

425
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:51,600
but I certainly intend to. 
I guess you have it yours, of 

426
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,240
course. 
Yeah, sure. 

427
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,040
Yep. 
And do you have a take? 

428
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,840
I do have a physical book also 
there. 

429
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,960
There's a copy I've just found 
on script as well, so that's 

430
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,760
handy. 
So I have the physical one, but 

431
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,320
also access to an electronic one
as well and that's what I'm 

432
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,280
using right now to save me 
having to flick through pages. 

433
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,520
Yeah, that's the same for me. 
And first of all, did they 

434
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,360
release any, were they any 
different omnibooks? 

435
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,280
I know for example the Empire, 
they had like 1 version in 5th 

436
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,080
as well. 
Or was it just are they more 

437
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,000
than one version of the book? 
Basically, are they identical? 

438
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:37,120
Yeah, they they changed some of 
the pages in for the for the 5th

439
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,480
edition. 
So it's the the the 4th edition 

440
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:45,200
books always came with also with
the catalog pages at the end. 

441
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,280
And these these were completely 
removed in 5th edition. 

442
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,400
Yeah, they had. 
Sample armies in the 5th. 

443
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,240
Yeah, they had sample armies and
also the the EV metal sites were

444
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:04,520
extended. 
They they removed the the the 

445
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:12,160
the you have the dark magic 
spell cards and the the items 

446
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,720
because we're also the the magic
to the complete get get a 

447
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:24,880
complete overhaul and the free 
space we're filled with dark 

448
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,200
cart miniature. 
So it's it's edition book also 

449
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:36,000
contains this this he and his 
dragon and also the boat for the

450
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,040
sponsor Sean. 
Quite a quite a few changes. 

451
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,680
Then you should be able to 
recognise which edition you have

452
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,040
quite easily. 
There might. 

453
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:48,360
There might be 3 versions then, 
because I've got 1 here. 

454
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,760
Yeah, this one has. 
Brought. 

455
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,160
The army page. 
The Army list pages. 

456
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,600
Yeah. 
Not the catalog pages, but also 

457
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:05,560
has the magic item pages and so 
it's 3 versions and kind of 

458
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:11,720
there's there's the midpoint 1. 
Bit OK, bit hard to say for me 

459
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,400
because it's it's, it's my 
German version, but the German 

460
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,920
version from I think it's Uncle 
Elephant. 

461
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:22,920
Uncle Elephant it's it's 
copyright 1996 and it could also

462
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,280
contain some of of of of a card 
stuff, but you can see here 

463
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:34,240
dragon and also boat floor so. 
Interesting. 

464
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,080
It's. 
It's has, yeah. 

465
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:39,960
It's really an upgrade 
overboard. 

466
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,240
So did they do any actual 
changes in the rules? 

467
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,120
Because for example, the Empire,
they snuck in a few things 

468
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,480
changes to, you know, if they 
did any of those actual stats 

469
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,400
changes or anything. 
I know I know from the by draft 

470
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:03,760
articles and and question and 
answer section that there were 

471
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:12,360
some rule changes for dark 
earths which also maybe were get

472
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,560
their way into the book. 
So it's I'm, I'm, I'm not very 

473
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,920
rude guy, but I think 11 of if I
remember correctly, one of the 

474
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,400
points discussed there was the 
selection of both for us, which 

475
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:30,480
was related to troop types and 
and also the the number of both 

476
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,719
flowers you can take and maybe 
this was corrected. 

477
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,760
Yeah, Yeah. 
I think they they cost 50 points

478
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,760
at some point the. 
The high off 1 was I don't think

479
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,600
there were ever 50 points in the
dark health book. 

480
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,719
I seem to remember there was an 
errata in the dark health book. 

481
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:49,400
Was it an errata? 
It might have been an 

482
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,520
acknowledgement there was a 
difference in costs or it might 

483
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,360
have been saying that high we 
should now cost 100, but it was 

484
00:34:54,360 --> 00:35:01,080
never until until they released 
the high off book in 5th 50. 

485
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,000
And my view of that is always 
they're getting cheaper because 

486
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,560
there are less they they get 
less benefits, as it were. 

487
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,680
I mean, I'm going to say it 
right now to get it out of the 

488
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,840
way. 
I think darker book is a little 

489
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,560
bit cheesy compared to the high 
off book, although a lot of 

490
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,880
other people have the same view.
Other people don't think so. 

491
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:19,840
There are certainly more 
benefits to their units than 

492
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:21,120
there are. 
Yeah. 

493
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,560
And I mean, we have talked a 
little bit about that previously

494
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:29,000
that they they had the tendency 
as opposed to add special rules 

495
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,000
as time goes by, because 
initially the first books they 

496
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,600
had are they any? 
And then over time there were 

497
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,880
more and more and there are 
quite a few ones in in darkness,

498
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,640
I guess. 
So are there any army wide 

499
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,320
special rules they have hatred 
against? 

500
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:51,920
I am sore I. 
Think that's the only army wide 

501
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,840
special rule. 
And another one I've got an 

502
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:55,440
issue with that, you know, 
that's that's fine. 

503
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,640
That's fluffy and it is as we 
said, it's it's army wide. 

504
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,320
So it means that everyone has 
the same role. 

505
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,360
So so that to an extent, I don't
mind that sort of thing. 

506
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,440
And especially with darker, I've
got an issue with it because 

507
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,760
it's, you know. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

508
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,360
I've got an issue with that at 
all. 

509
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,440
Anything there's anything else? 
Obviously there's there's this 

510
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:22,200
change to crossbows in this 
version of the dark health list 

511
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,160
where they go from having 
standard crossbows with repeat 

512
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,680
across as an option to upgrade 
to being repeat crossbows as 

513
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,320
standard. 
I guess in that's part of the 

514
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,800
drive to try and make armies 
unique. 

515
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:39,880
As you were, diversify them a 
bit. 

516
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,640
Yeah, diversify them and mean 
they're different to another 

517
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:50,400
army that have crossbows. 
Could in 3rd edition could other

518
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,160
armies have repeats of crossbows
as well? 

519
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:58,160
Or was it always darker I. 
Think it's well, Warhammer in 

520
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,960
mind, Warhammer Armies was 
optional in third, Yeah, you 

521
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,760
could just build an army list 
with the rulebook. 

522
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,680
So you know, in that sense 
repeat crossbows could be had by

523
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:12,320
anyone. 
I think in the art list, I don't

524
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,480
think there was anyone else that
had repeated crossbows as an 

525
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,640
option, but it but it wasn't 
their standard armament. 

526
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,960
You're saying you you could 
choose to upgrade to it. 

527
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:24,560
So that's, you know, if I 
remember the rules correctly, 

528
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,160
you can either fire it as a 
normal crossbow or do repeated. 

529
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,080
So. 
So I guess in that sense, it's 

530
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,280
not that much of A variation, 
but it does make really quite 

531
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,440
deadly at, you know, being at, 
OK, there's the -1 to hit, but 

532
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,160
the extra shot. 
Should make up. 

533
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,880
I think it should be worth it. 
Yeah. 

534
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:44,240
I haven't run the statistics, 
but I will assume it's certainly

535
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:46,200
a benefit. 
Right. 

536
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:51,320
So if we get into the actual 
list back in the days usually 

537
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,840
you had like one option for a 
general and that was it. 

538
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,520
So. 
And I suppose the dog, if you 

539
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,520
know is the same stat wise as 
the other elf generals. 

540
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,960
I guess I haven't. 
Yeah, no difference. 

541
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:04,760
No difference. 
He. 

542
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:11,120
Obviously gets the hatred and a 
wood elf one would get the -1 on

543
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,680
a Longbow as well -1 to arm a 
save on a Longbow. 

544
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:17,600
So those two an additional thing
there on the high elf one but 

545
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,200
but stats wise look exactly the 
same to me. 

546
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:26,360
Yeah, it's I can also extend 
with some information. 

547
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,600
It was from from from the mini 
Asia side. 

548
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:43,680
Ellie told me that the Dark Elf 
design was to create a evil side

549
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:50,520
of a dark elf of of a High Elf. 
So it's it it it should mirror 

550
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:54,680
at some point. 
So that's with the dark Efs of 

551
00:38:55,560 --> 00:39:03,560
the evil mirror of, of the High 
Elves and much more with with 

552
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:09,440
this sharp and and yeah, pointy,
pointy design. 

553
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:19,160
And it's and from from from from
rule side or from the yeah, 

554
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:26,160
from, from from what general 
feeling of of of game of army 

555
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,360
design. 
I get an interesting information

556
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:37,360
from Jarvis some years ago, but 
he he really enjoyed the project

557
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:42,280
and it it it was fun to work on 
and what he has in good memory 

558
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:48,440
was but he was interested to 
trying with make Dark Elves a 

559
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:54,280
combined arms force which along 
the lines of armies fielded by 

560
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,760
Alexander the Great and his 
successors. 

561
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,720
He isn't. 
He's not sure if he succeeded, 

562
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:05,200
but at at least it was his 
intention to do. 

563
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,280
So. 
So it's, and this, it's also my 

564
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,960
feeling that the army has on, 
on, on, on one hand really some 

565
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:21,840
weaknesses, but you can 
compensate these weaknesses with

566
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:27,800
your, your, if your army 
selection and in with your 

567
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,680
combinations and the, the, the 
strategy you, you, you have. 

568
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:37,280
So maybe he was a bit early with
this, with this idea, because 

569
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,200
most of the focus in in in 4th, 
5th edition was around the 

570
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,480
characters and and and and the 
heroes. 

571
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,680
And yeah, I think maybe the 
system didn't quite allow that, 

572
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,120
but. 
The system doesn't. 

573
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:53,960
Yeah, it's but for example, in 
later editions I've I played 

574
00:40:53,960 --> 00:41:00,800
successfully a list only with 
with with infantry troops. 

575
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,400
So also with I have a Temple of 
Kane army. 

576
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,160
I played without magic, without 
shooting, without cavalry. 

577
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,600
It's all all hand to hand 
infantry. 

578
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,720
And you, you get that you, you 
can, you get the playable. 

579
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:21,640
So the elements of the Dark 
Earth list are that strong that 

580
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:27,960
you can really create forces 
supporting each other and and 

581
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:34,760
and and play with successful. 
And so I think he he succeeded, 

582
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,440
yeah. 
So he maybe he really was too 

583
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:43,120
early with this concept because 
the concept suffers because so 

584
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:47,200
much focus on the characters. 
Yeah, and I suppose most players

585
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:51,840
didn't really catch up on that 
one, so maybe it was they. 

586
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,840
Really. 
You really have to agree on so 

587
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:58,360
so only one character and put 
your rest of your points into 

588
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,360
troops. 
Yeah, and I think you're doing 

589
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,160
4th and 5th. 
That would have been a pretty 

590
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,520
brave and different approach to 
most armies that you saw and the

591
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,640
sort of the meta of the game. 
But yeah, that's interesting. 

592
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,920
And yeah, it would have been 
cool to see an army like that. 

593
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:21,360
All right, so other characters 
what options do the Dark Elves 

594
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:25,200
have for? 
They've obviously got Witch of 

595
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,040
characters as well as normal 
Dark Elves. 

596
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,640
And that's interesting because 
that gives you the ability to 

597
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,640
have a champion, let alone a 
hero in a unit that's frenzied 

598
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,520
with the frenzy ability. 
Because if you think with with 

599
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:47,160
one of the things that Bugbear 
had with Scaven was if you put a

600
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,760
champion in a unit of plate 
monks, strictly speaking, he's 

601
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:51,440
not got frenzy. 
No, no. 

602
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,640
And it's the same with Empire 
flagellants, for example. 

603
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,920
Putting a champion there, it's 
going to be actually inferior to

604
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,080
the troopers, basically. 
So yeah. 

605
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:05,680
And or or a swordmaster champion
hails who, who doesn't have the 

606
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,360
doesn't have the ability with 
his double handed weapon. 

607
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,320
So they they kind of covered 
that with a magic item in 

608
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,680
Chronicles of war eventually 
where you could have a high off 

609
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,160
magic sword. 
That was it was like 25 points. 

610
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,240
It was a double handed weapon 
that didn't make you strike 

611
00:43:19,240 --> 00:43:21,600
last. 
So they kind of covered it with 

612
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:23,240
that, but there wasn't a 
champion with that ability. 

613
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,600
Whereas in Dark, in Dark off 
book, I think they quite rightly

614
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,840
give you that option of having a
champion that is, you know, that

615
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,000
can fit in with those units. 
Yeah. 

616
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,520
And I think, yeah, comparably 
with the Slayer champions or 

617
00:43:36,720 --> 00:43:40,200
Slayer character choices, that's
also exactly. 

618
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,560
Yeah, so specialist. 
Champions. 

619
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,960
I think that that which F hero 
is really the most cheesiest 

620
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:52,200
selection of a book. 
So it's it's a good yeah, I I 

621
00:43:52,200 --> 00:44:00,600
saw I I I I saw an an army list 
from I have I have have the name

622
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:02,960
of the studio stuff in in in on 
my tongue. 

623
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:08,520
But it's maybe it appears later,
but he armed it with with with 

624
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,880
hero. 
He armed it with a hellbeard and

625
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:20,280
put it on a hydra. 
And what's an insane output of 

626
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:22,760
of damage? 
It's. 

627
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,600
So how many attacks does do they
have the the heroes? 

628
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:33,200
Is it like 3 + 1 additional land
France so it's 7 attacks or? 

629
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,080
Well, it's 3 doubled, isn't it? 
So six, Yeah, whatever, 

630
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:40,840
whatever. 
Additional weapons. 

631
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,320
Yeah, if you give them just if. 
They're a hero. 

632
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:45,200
OK, Yeah. 
OK. 

633
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,680
SO66 basic attacks with friends,
you know? 

634
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:48,840
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

635
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,720
And then whatever else, I mean, 
you can obviously, because it's 

636
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:53,560
a hero, you can go mad. 
You can play leaping gold or or 

637
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:54,640
a Hydra sword. 
And then you. 

638
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,040
Yeah. 
Yeah, proportion of strength or 

639
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:57,640
whatever. 
Yeah. 

640
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,680
Yeah, well, yeah. 
Potion strength or what's the 

641
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,520
other one? 
The Amiot of Power that came out

642
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,480
in in Chronicles of War that 
gives you addition to your 

643
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:07,080
strength. 
Yeah. 

644
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,080
So yeah, you could certainly go 
cheat, you know, very, very 

645
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,560
cheesy with that. 
But similar you could probably 

646
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:16,320
do with a plague priest, or 
they're not quite as good in 

647
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,360
combat as a witch health. 
A bit more resilient perhaps? 

648
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,920
Yeah, probably more. 
Yeah. 

649
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,280
Are they toughness 5 or 4? 
I don't normally use plague 

650
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,440
priests so yeah in that sense 
but but less weapon skill. 

651
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,120
But they didn't have any 
miniatures for the dark. 

652
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,800
Which of characters did they? 
Did they really? 

653
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:48,040
Yeah, you can use that that that
stand out which of I we talked 

654
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:53,640
earlier about it's but I I think
this this one was quite used 

655
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:59,680
often as as a as a hero. 
The other one is there was also 

656
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:06,320
a which elf in the Talisman City
expansion which was also from 

657
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,160
used from the studio as as a 
Champion Asia. 

658
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,600
Yeah. 
And right. 

659
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:23,560
So then we had of course, magic 
uses and they, well, they had 

660
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,560
the basic choice, I guess, level
1 to 4, nothing special as such.

661
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:34,920
And at that point, they still 
had male magic uses. 

662
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:39,120
At least they didn't. 
Only female. 

663
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,360
No, they didn't have that weird 
rule that they put in their only

664
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,760
female sound that weird. 
It's very strange that one. 

665
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,760
Yeah, that was in there. 
And obviously because they were 

666
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:54,960
using dark Magic, they could put
back dispels to get power or any

667
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,000
card. 
Was it any card or dispels? 

668
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,400
I can't remember one or the 
other, but but they could put 

669
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,720
cards back in the winds and 
Magic to try to get more cards. 

670
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,200
They they were more powerful in 
that sense. 

671
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,640
And I think they also had 
dealing preference as well. 

672
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,800
So if if there were any dark 
Magic users on the board, they 

673
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,720
we dealt first because strictly 
speaking, they were the only 

674
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:19,960
spells they could have. 
So a bit like Orton Goblins, 

675
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,720
when you got to your 10 spells, 
you would if you had any other 

676
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:24,640
Wizards. 
You were, you were. 

677
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,800
Yeah, you were in struck. 
So in the law, were they the 

678
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,720
inventors of dark magic, or how 
was that described? 

679
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:34,760
No, I think they were just the 
ones that used it. 

680
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,880
I don't think they will e-mail. 
Oh, he's got a Citadel journal 

681
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:38,880
out. 
George has got a Citadel 

682
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:40,880
journal. 
Out, Yeah, in, in, in the in the

683
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,720
meantime, I I found what I have 
looked for. 

684
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:48,440
It's it's the Citadel Journal 
issue 21. 

685
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:54,880
It's an excellent article by 
Thomas Perenin discussing the 

686
00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:03,080
Dark Elf units and also the also
some tactics. 

687
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,800
And yes, it's what what I said 
about the which you have 

688
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:11,720
characters, all the advantages 
of regular characters plus 

689
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:15,000
frenzy and poison purposes. 
How can you possibly go wrong? 

690
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:18,480
Which of yours should be at the 
core of your hand to hand 

691
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,840
strategy? 
Remember that all the attacks 

692
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:25,280
have +1 to their strengths, so 
why not go for to give it them 

693
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,920
hell beards? 
Because we are not shut set at 

694
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,240
BLD. 
When selecting magic items, give

695
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:33,920
them something that further 
enhances the multiple attacks or

696
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:35,680
raises the strength of their 
attacks. 

697
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,320
For the ultimate infantry killer
mount which if hero on a war 

698
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:44,920
hydra and put it with put put 
with a unit of cavalry to give 

699
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,360
her protection from missiles. 
Just be sure that somebody else 

700
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,040
fights with challenges. 
If you include her in a Cold One

701
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,280
regiment, consider giving her 
Ducks deed instead. 

702
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,280
The steed's higher speed may 
give your opponent a nasty 

703
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:02,000
surprise if he could declare 
independent charges. 

704
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,440
Yeah. 
So I think brought a bit more 

705
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:13,200
competitive ideas to the yeah, 
because looking at a lot of the 

706
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,520
the early 4th edition better 
reports and so on, they I mean, 

707
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:22,440
competitiveness and so on wasn't
really the prime thing about 

708
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,400
those. 
So yeah, so you can definitely 

709
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,200
make some nasty even it's. 
When I, when I, when I talked 

710
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:33,960
about with him about the the 
tactic section he wrote in the 

711
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,360
in the journal, he said 
especially about that Hydra 

712
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:42,560
thing that he really regrets 
that they didn't go deeper into 

713
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:48,960
the Hydra, into this Hydra 
topic, that they didn't make 

714
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:56,000
more out of it at the time point
he, he really would have enjoyed

715
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,920
that. 
Yeah, yeah. 

716
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:02,960
And I guess at that point Hydra 
became sort of a special darker 

717
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,240
thing. 
Pretty much any army could use 

718
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:11,680
it, but it was sort of dark of 
monster of choice. 

719
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,960
I suppose they. 
Had a special hydra. 

720
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,320
They they had the Hydra, but 
they had the war Hydra. 

721
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:17,000
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

722
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,720
Isonormal hydra also. 
Better from from rules from 

723
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,520
their stats. 
Right. 

724
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,320
So let's move on. 
Are there any other? 

725
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,680
Yeah, that's the assassin. 
Yeah, as in which for for Darkos

726
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,720
obviously is a character. 
Now in 3rd assassins were 

727
00:50:33,720 --> 00:50:36,240
characters. 
In the White Book Assassins were

728
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:39,240
troop types. 
Yeah, and how did it work with 

729
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:40,840
the Scaven? 
Were they? 

730
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:42,800
Scavenger troop types. 
Yeah, right. 

731
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:44,680
Yeah, but then for. 
Darkos. 

732
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,320
It goes back to being a 
character. 

733
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:52,960
Now my regular opponent, my my 
long-suffering brother has an 

734
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,200
issue with the Scraven assassin 
because he says it's unfair. 

735
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:58,680
They they can basically have two
in each unit and they're a troop

736
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,760
type choice. 
My counterpoint would be, yeah, 

737
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,880
a dock of assassins have to be a
character of choice. 

738
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,880
But they are a lot nasty because
they can have magic items, you 

739
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:12,280
know, yes, OK, you can have a 
troop level weeping blade for a,

740
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,880
for a Scraven assassin. 
They come with a standard, but 

741
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:16,120
that's it. 
They can't have anything else. 

742
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,920
Whereas dock of assassins Ouch. 
They can have a magic item on 

743
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:24,920
top of I think that do they have
poisoned as standard. 

744
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:29,680
I think George or Doka for 
assassins in fourth. 

745
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,760
Do you know? 
Oh no, I don't know. 

746
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:33,480
OK. 
I would I would guess they 

747
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,720
probably would do. 
That would make sense, but I 

748
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:38,800
guess the normal thing would be 
to keep them out with some nasty

749
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:41,440
stuff. 
Yeah, well, I, I think it's 

750
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,880
probably given some like a black
amulet or something like that. 

751
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:52,320
Or or or a heart of woe hell. 
Of the atomic bomb. 

752
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,840
Yeah, exactly. 
So yeah, but but but it's yeah, 

753
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,840
it's it's an interesting 
distinction between the two. 

754
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:03,320
You know, sceven assassins troop
type, whereas dark of assassins 

755
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:08,680
are are, you know, characters. 
So magic item or we there we go 

756
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:10,200
Have we got that? 
Yeah. 

757
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,560
Oh, I can't see your screen, 
Those two. 

758
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,280
Sorry, it's it's I can confirm 
poison attacks. 

759
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,680
Yeah, they get plus one to their
strength and already so, so 

760
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:22,720
they're up to strength 5, which 
is, which is kind of nasty. 

761
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,080
Yeah, yeah, definitely. 
And yeah. 

762
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,800
And he inflicts more wounds so 
especially. 

763
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,840
He's got that as well. 
The D3, yeah. 

764
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,880
Yeah, it's AD 3. 
Oh, so even before medic items 

765
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:38,280
it's going to be pretty nasty 
and and just boost it further. 

766
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:41,480
Exactly. 
So yeah, doctors are seems 

767
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:46,080
nasty. 
Yep, definitely nasty, right? 

768
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,680
So I guess that's it for the 
characters? 

769
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:52,160
Or did we miss any? 
No, that comes all of them. 

770
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:56,880
Yep, right. 
So let's at least start with the

771
00:52:57,240 --> 00:53:02,600
chips, the bread and butter. 
Yeah, cold 1 Knights and dark 

772
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,680
riders for your cavalry. 
So the slim down from the 3rd 

773
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,520
edition list, but I think that's
what they were in the white in 

774
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,760
the white book list off top of 
my head. 

775
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,560
It was just like, you know, cold
1 Knights and heavier light 

776
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:17,560
stuck with it. 
Yeah. 

777
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,800
Yeah, and obviously Cold one. 
So the cold one cavalry is 

778
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:27,040
pretty iconic and and stupid so.
Yeah, they are. 

779
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,640
Yes, we're the leadership of 
three as well, but luckily the 

780
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,680
cold one nights have have a 
better leadership. 

781
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:38,720
I'm just having a quick check in
the best story because I can't 

782
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:42,960
remember top my head, but I know
balls not stupid, but they're -1

783
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:45,200
to lead ship. 
I don't know if that's minus to 

784
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,760
leadership for right. 
I think there was in 3rd, but I 

785
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,200
don't know if there's a minus to
lead. 

786
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:51,680
No, there's no minus. 
To leadership. 

787
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,600
No it's just stupidity. 
So you should be OK with Liege 

788
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,840
probably led by a hero at least 
boosted to Liege 9. 

789
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,360
So you you should be fine. 
And obviously you can take a 

790
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:05,360
magic banner for 10 points that 
negates the. 

791
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,000
Yeah, what's the point in that? 
Exactly. 

792
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,920
Well, it is. 
It's a 10 point banner that just

793
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,200
negates stupidity. 
But there's no, there's no killy

794
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:14,440
killy there. 
No. 

795
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:19,200
And yeah, So that's cool. 
Obviously you fail the 

796
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,160
leadership testimony. 
Exactly wrong. 

797
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,920
But but but banacos were reduced
later so it's at the beginning. 

798
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:28,400
It was a 5050 pints points 
spanner. 

799
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:29,400
Oh, OK. 
Was. 

800
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:31,520
It Oh, OK. 
I thought it was 10. 

801
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,160
I always lose 10. 
OK, 50. 

802
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,880
That's a lot of points for that.
Yeah, but I think that's one one

803
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,200
of the more boring items you can
have, the one that sort of 

804
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:44,640
negate your negative stuff. 
I mean, that's the sort of part 

805
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,400
of the charm really, to have 
those special rules if you want 

806
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:49,160
them so. 
That's the point. 

807
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,440
I guess that's why they reduced 
the points value because no one 

808
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,160
was bothering to take it. 
Yeah, probably. 

809
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:56,520
Yeah. 
And obviously with the 

810
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,000
leadership of three, it would 
have been a bad idea to have 

811
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,600
them on their own, like you said
they could. 

812
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,160
Yeah, yeah, they, they probably 
wouldn't do much. 

813
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,040
So that's probably worse than 
trolls, actually. 

814
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:10,720
I think so, you know, that's, 
that's that's proper stupid. 

815
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,640
That's, of course. 
I always say that was a weird 

816
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,040
choice though. 
For the idea of what I suppose 

817
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,920
the the original Cold One models
were a little bit more dopey 

818
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:22,080
looking, yeah. 
They were. 

819
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,280
Kind of a lizard looking thing. 
Raptors of 4th edition just 

820
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,000
don't look like they'd suffer 
from stupidity. 

821
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,120
No, no, I mean. 
They, they just look like your 

822
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:35,160
killing machines, you know, 
prejudice. 

823
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:38,720
So I could understand more of a 
a blood greed kind of monitor 

824
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:40,880
sort of thing that once they've 
made a kill, they stick around 

825
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,600
to eat, to eat what's killed. 
That to me fits more with the 

826
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:48,760
Raptor look. 
Than and I don't remember, are 

827
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:54,520
are they the only cavalry? 
Did Chaos have some that sort of

828
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,000
had a monsters cavalry or in 4th
edition? 

829
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:02,360
Or were there any others? 
Wood Elves obviously got the the

830
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:07,320
war Hawks, but they were the 
only ones with monstrous 

831
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:09,080
cavalry. 
Yeah, they were. 

832
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,640
Obviously you could have things 
that moved as fast as cavalry, 

833
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,240
like your dragon. 
Quite as fast. 

834
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:20,680
Yeah, but, but. 
But monstrous cavalry less. 

835
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,320
Yeah, I suppose the demonic 
ones. 

836
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:23,720
Yeah, you. 
Yeah, could be, yeah. 

837
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,400
Those would be monstrous 
cavalry, I guess, but, well, not

838
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,720
really monstrous because 
they're, they're still cavalry 

839
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:32,480
sized, you know what I mean? 
Yeah, yeah. 

840
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:34,960
Other beasts. 
They've got wolves and boars. 

841
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:39,680
They're not horses for for 
autumn goblins, but. 

842
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,560
Yeah, and the cold ones, I mean,
they had two attacks, right? 

843
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:45,560
So they were. 
Oh yeah, they. 

844
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:47,840
Were. 
Straight 4 as well. 

845
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:52,560
Yeah, most times they kill more 
than their Knights on it, Yeah. 

846
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,400
Yeah, absolutely. 
Especially in subsequent rounds 

847
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:56,920
of combat. 
Yeah, yeah. 

848
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,120
Yeah, that's a good point. 
When when they've no longer 

849
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,800
when, when the Knights are down 
to strength 3, then then 

850
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:05,680
probably your cold ones are 
going to do the damage. 

851
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,240
So they're they're a bit more 
survivable than other forms of 

852
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:11,200
cavalry. 
Maybe in that sense, they're 

853
00:57:11,240 --> 00:57:14,640
able to do more damage out. 
But yeah, yeah, I mean, they're 

854
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:16,640
characterful. 
They're like, it's it's it's a 

855
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,480
really cool idea, you know, 
elves riding lizards. 

856
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:23,200
It's, you know, it's whatever 
kind of the, the only ones I 

857
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,160
would say probably weren't 
called with a 6th edition called

858
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:30,840
ones that just looked like 
Diplodocus in Brontosauruses or 

859
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:31,440
something. 
Like that? 

860
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,720
Yeah, the that one. 
Yeah, they didn't look great. 

861
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,440
They probably. 
No, no, I don't take them, no. 

862
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:38,640
Yeah. 
The light is. 

863
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,680
Not so. 
Bad but but the the cold ones 

864
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,480
themselves Horrendous but. 
Yeah, I, I don't get that. 

865
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,160
Yeah. 
I I prefer the earlier cold ones

866
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,480
look, but I also love the Raptor
ones as well. 

867
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:51,520
They're lovely. 
They're really nice models and 

868
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,920
and the and the general on the 
Raptor style cold 1 is just 

869
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,400
yeah, that's that's really cool.
That's a cool model. 

870
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,480
True. 
So yeah, I I like them. 

871
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,120
I prefer the old one, but we we 
can always say that whenever we 

872
00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:05,640
do on these books, they go I 
prefer the old. 

873
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Well, that's the way you old 

874
00:58:08,600 --> 00:58:11,240
Croc. 
Yeah, afraid so. 

875
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,000
Yeah. 
All right. 

876
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,240
So yeah, good choice and 
distinctive. 

877
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,760
And then we have the dock 
riders, as you said, the light 

878
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,880
cavalry. 
The best light cavalry in the 

879
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,400
game. 
Yes they are, aren't they? 

880
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,680
Yes, as a high health player, 
yes they are, aren't they? 

881
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,840
No, I'm not bitter about the 
differences between between 

882
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,600
Elurine Rivas and and Dark 
Riders at all, in any way, shape

883
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:40,720
or form. 
No. 

884
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,120
And I think where where we 
played back in the day. 

885
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:47,520
So I think I mentioned that 
before we basically ignored 

886
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:50,000
light cabaret because heavy 
cabaret was much cooler. 

887
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,040
Of course, they had, they were 
nights. 

888
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:56,840
But as you said, from a, if you 
want to develop your tactics, I 

889
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:59,520
think light cavalry is 
definitely there. 

890
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:03,280
And they they were also included
in the book as miniatures, but 

891
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:07,280
also miniatures never released, 
so it's ungutted. 

892
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:09,960
They were they were really nice 
models as well. 

893
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:10,680
I. 
Really. 

894
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:13,520
For the ones they did release in
5th. 

895
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,480
Yeah, I was. 
Rumoured because they are a bit 

896
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:23,240
short of of of belly because the
torso sits directly on the on 

897
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,720
the leg part. 
But that's I think all covered 

898
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,720
miniature suffering in in that 
edition. 

899
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:35,760
And I had also when I put 
together my my my regiment, I 

900
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:41,120
increased the high about two to 
three millimetres. 

901
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:48,280
So that way of year in the same 
same size range of the Cold War 

902
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,720
nights. 
And so they they look really 

903
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,280
look really nicely. 
But yeah, they designed by Ellen

904
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:01,000
Morrison in 1995 but were never 
released. 

905
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:06,200
I think they wanted them to. 
To make some changes. 

906
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,120
But then there was also the 
plastic horse on its way which 

907
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:15,040
was released with the wood Alfs 
and they didn't fit on on that. 

908
01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:21,360
They didn't fit on that plastic 
horse and so they are decided to

909
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:26,280
not release them and they get 
the second chance when Gary 

910
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:30,320
Morley made his designs for 5th 
edition. 

911
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:32,200
For and. 
I mean the. 

912
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:36,120
You should campaign. 
Good models, but yeah, I also 

913
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,120
prefer the later ones. 
So I think the the ones released

914
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,320
in fifth they they definitely 
have more of a 6th edition 

915
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:47,840
aesthetics to them. 
So I think they maybe don't fit 

916
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:51,000
with the older models too well. 
All right, So what makes them 

917
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,360
great in game? 
Everything about them. 

918
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:57,360
Yeah. 
Doing. 

919
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:02,400
With repeating crossbows, so 
it's put them early up in the 

920
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,480
game. 
So it's so to to to feel them 

921
01:01:06,680 --> 01:01:12,840
outside your deployment zone. 
So it's it's may have so much 

922
01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:16,440
advantages. 
The expert rides and foreign 

923
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,000
flee so it's not like they don't
get minuses. 

924
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:23,760
I think to move when they move 
and shoot and they can rally as 

925
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,560
soon they flee from a charge and
can rally straight away. 

926
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:28,320
So there's no. 
Danger. 

927
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,640
You know, and and and all. 
Oh, and they can skirmish as 

928
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:38,120
well, which again, so so the the
can't do any of that. 

929
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,280
No, they just have, you know, 
stats and no SPECIAL rules at 

930
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,240
all. 
So they're they're they're 

931
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:48,320
they're they are phenomenal. 
I mean they they go. 

932
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:51,280
In fact, they can do double shot
because they're repeating 

933
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,640
crossbow puts them above Glade 
riders, you know, from from the 

934
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:58,080
wood off book which came after. 
But they get the same rules 

935
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:01,960
except for obviously the Bay of 
a Longbow as opposed to A to a 

936
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:06,400
repeating crossbow. 
So yeah, yeah, they're just 

937
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,280
phenomenally good, especially 
for the points as well. 

938
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:13,440
They're just. 
I'm yet to paint them up, but 

939
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,840
maybe I should do that next try 
them out. 

940
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:20,240
Once you've got them, I think 
you probably won't leave home 

941
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,320
without them as well if you're 
playing Dark Elves and they'll 

942
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,240
be the first first unit in your 
list. 

943
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:27,200
All right. 
Cool. 

944
01:02:28,280 --> 01:02:29,640
Right. 
So I think that's it, 

945
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:34,000
vocabulary. 
And it was only two choices, 

946
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:35,600
right? 
Yeah, yeah. 

947
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,680
So, infantry, what's first and 
the list? 

948
01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:42,120
Which else? 
Which else? 

949
01:02:42,120 --> 01:02:43,640
Yes. 
We have talked a bit about them.

950
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:50,520
So, so, so iconic. 
So it's, yeah, it's, it's one of

951
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:54,720
of the less female regiments you
have in Warhammer. 

952
01:02:55,680 --> 01:03:03,280
So it's having this and it's 
they are also very yeah, iconic 

953
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,720
site on the battlefield because 
let's you have them with your 

954
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:10,480
iconic hair and with a lot of 
skin. 

955
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:14,840
So you're they are very light. 
So you you see from from 

956
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:17,400
participants where really an eye
catcher on each battlefield, 

957
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:23,320
often painted with very coloured
hair. 

958
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:28,040
I actually have 20 on the my 
painting table right now and I 

959
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:31,280
still haven't decided if I 
should go, you know, fully crazy

960
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:33,600
hair colours. 
So if I should do more white 

961
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:40,040
with a few streaks of colour? 
Being being being frenzy to hand

962
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:44,840
weapons. 
So it's they are they can be 

963
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:46,880
successful even in very small 
units. 

964
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,600
So it's I think in in the white 
fog better reports, they have 

965
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:56,120
units of eight mini issues. 
I think they they work very good

966
01:03:56,120 --> 01:04:00,600
in that in in that 4th, 5th 
edition set up where you have 

967
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:06,720
limited points for for troops 
because it's a 222 type which 

968
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:10,000
works very nicely with a small 
number of troopers. 

969
01:04:10,360 --> 01:04:13,360
Yeah, as long as they don't get 
too much shooting attention, I 

970
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:18,760
guess they Yeah, but. 
But but even if so, so it's when

971
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:25,440
you you feed your opponent with 
a lot of possible targets for 

972
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,240
his shooting. 
So you have hobbies. 

973
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:31,920
You have which you have the dark
riders. 

974
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:39,080
It's yeah. 
Also the boat for us, Yeah, took

975
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,680
took your choice. 
You can't shoot them all. 

976
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:46,760
Something you you maybe you can 
a bit decide what what hits you.

977
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:51,160
Yep, that's true, and they can't
be ignored. 

978
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,240
Basically, if they get into 
contact it's going to hurt, so 

979
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,560
the opponent has to. 
Really really hurts. 

980
01:04:56,560 --> 01:05:00,480
Yes, and especially if you 
support them with some champion 

981
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:04,000
if also have some matching item.
Yep. 

982
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,280
And as I said, very, very 
distinctive. 

983
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:11,320
I think if you had any contact 
with warmer fantasy, you will 

984
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:16,360
know what wood shops are and how
they look basically, right? 

985
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:21,840
So yeah, good choice. 
And I guess sort of a must have,

986
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:23,800
or at least probably should 
have. 

987
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,120
Well, yeah, I mean for me, if 
I'm doing my usual, oh, I follow

988
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:30,600
Warhammer armies from 3rd 
edition and when I pick my 

989
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,080
armies in 4th edition then yeah,
I've got to have at least a unit

990
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,440
of 10. 
I wouldn't actually stick so 

991
01:05:35,440 --> 01:05:37,560
rigidly to it. 
But I think, yeah, they are 

992
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:39,760
definitely an iconically dark 
health unit. 

993
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:44,080
And if you're not taking them, 
then you know you're not 

994
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:47,280
necessarily getting into the 
flavour of what Dark Elves are. 

995
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,440
Again, I'll be, I'll be using 
Marauder models actually. 

996
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:53,480
No, they're both Marauder 
actually. 

997
01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:54,920
Sorry. 
I'm using earlier Marauder 

998
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,800
models for mine. 
Is that the smaller ones? 

999
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:01,280
They're quite short. 
Yeah, without, without the, I 

1000
01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:06,800
mean, big weapons, yes, but not 
the huge weapons of the 4th 

1001
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,720
edition ones, and not quite as 
much hair. 

1002
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:13,520
No, I actually mixed in some of 
those in the the unit I'm 

1003
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,080
building now and I think it 
looks like it could work. 

1004
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:19,240
I mean they stand out a bit, but
it's not like a sore thumb. 

1005
01:06:19,240 --> 01:06:22,240
So I think if you work with the 
colour scheme it can work. 

1006
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:27,400
With a, with a consistent paint 
job, you'll probably mask a lot 

1007
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:29,480
of that anyway. 
You know, they'll, they'll blend

1008
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,760
in more. 
So I think there's there's a lot

1009
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:38,800
to be said for consistent paint 
jobs to blend different edition 

1010
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,680
models together, as long as it's
not outrageously different. 

1011
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:44,160
Yeah. 
I mean, for example mixing the 

1012
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:48,520
very different cold, yeah, cold 
ones might be a bit. 

1013
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:50,160
Yeah, that would. 
Stand out like a small thumb. 

1014
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:53,640
Yeah, absolutely. 
But maybe the witch elder you 

1015
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:57,120
get away with it, you know, 
especially if maybe you don't 

1016
01:06:57,120 --> 01:07:00,120
put you know, you, you keep the 
front rank to being whichever. 

1017
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:05,840
Yeah, and. 
Then mix the rest in in in 

1018
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:08,080
subsequent ranks and yeah, you 
probably get away with it. 

1019
01:07:21,580 --> 01:07:25,780
All right, so we're back and we 
handled the the witch else. 

1020
01:07:25,980 --> 01:07:28,780
So what more do we have in 
infantry? 

1021
01:07:28,780 --> 01:07:30,980
More of the standard troops I 
guess, Left. 

1022
01:07:31,980 --> 01:07:38,560
Can I just say I didn't handle 
any witch else Well, we've got 

1023
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:42,520
executioners and dark guards. 
Sorry Black Guard even sorry. 

1024
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:45,880
So I guess executioners, George 
over to you because you've got a

1025
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,840
unit of these bad boys that. 
Very few people have not. 

1026
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,760
I actually have one as well. 
No, All right, OK. 

1027
01:07:55,480 --> 01:08:03,000
I got mine really years ago. 
Yeah, before before eBay. 

1028
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,120
They have also marketplace 
called butter town. 

1029
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:16,319
It was in in it's around the 
2000s and where I'm yeah, met a 

1030
01:08:16,319 --> 01:08:21,359
guy who was on game state 
Baltimore and he had two of a 

1031
01:08:21,359 --> 01:08:30,479
hydra and 40 of the executioners
and and he decided to keep one 

1032
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:36,600
of the hydras, but semi 1 semi, 
just one hydra and and yes, this

1033
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:40,040
40 execution is. 
Oh, you have 40? 

1034
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:41,439
Yeah, I have 10. 
So. 

1035
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:47,840
It's yeah, it's, it's I've, 
I've, I've sold 10 when, when I 

1036
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:54,439
sold my just this my first Army.
But but it's, it's yes, my, my, 

1037
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:58,840
my unit's still 32%. 
That's the solid unit, yeah. 

1038
01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:03,279
And I think they are quite, 
quite a good choice compared to 

1039
01:09:03,279 --> 01:09:05,720
Black Guards, for example. 
They are really solid, 

1040
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,479
especially if you face something
with multiple wounds. 

1041
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:11,439
I guess they're quite good, so 
yeah. 

1042
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:14,600
Again, it's it's the mirror 
image, the white line, and 

1043
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:16,080
they're just. 
Better. 

1044
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,200
Better. 
It's frustratingly so. 

1045
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:26,080
You know they get heavy armour 
and D3 wounds, you know white 

1046
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,200
line now until you get to 3rd 
edition, whether sorry 5th 

1047
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:31,920
edition where they went silly 
with it and gave Maiden into 

1048
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:34,399
basically white lines into war 
dancers. 

1049
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,200
But there we go, There you go, 
execution as the mirror image to

1050
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,640
the high of 1 and again, so much
better. 

1051
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:43,960
As a we are really nice unit, we
attract a lot of shooting 

1052
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:49,200
because you your opponent 
definitely did not want this 

1053
01:09:49,279 --> 01:09:55,600
within your ranks because the 
damage is really outstanding. 

1054
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:03,360
So it's it's it's also one of 
these units you can pick as a as

1055
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:07,240
a shooting attractor. 
So it's it really depends on on 

1056
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:10,240
on how the rest of your army 
looks. 

1057
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:16,560
So it's it's it's can work in a 
small unit, but you need a lot 

1058
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:21,680
of over troops you're which also
attract shootings. 

1059
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:25,080
So it's if it's else. 
For example, if if you 

1060
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:29,200
definitely want them to to reach
your opponent, you need to play 

1061
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:31,040
a bigger unit. 
Yeah. 

1062
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:33,800
So I mean, my tennis isn't 
really any good. 

1063
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:38,200
I need to I need to up the unit 
a bit. 

1064
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:43,720
Yours is a supporting unit. 
George is more of a frontline 

1065
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,760
unit by the. 
Yeah, I don't expect to get 

1066
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:48,600
anymore, so we'll see how that 
works. 

1067
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:50,600
But they. 
Are they are very as if if you 

1068
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:54,320
want for original 4th edition 
ones they are very expensive. 

1069
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:59,080
Meanwhile, think it's £30 per 
miniature. 

1070
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:03,280
And there are. 
The market is full of recast. 

1071
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:08,840
Yeah, yeah, that's neat. 
And yeah, then very nice. 

1072
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:13,840
I think a lot of people use the 
Black Guard S Executionist, the 

1073
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:18,560
Black Guard minis and yeah, so 
we'll maybe move on to the Black

1074
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:23,240
Guard is that I think those 
miniatures are very nice 

1075
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:25,400
compared to we talked about Code
One Nights. 

1076
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:28,240
Might be a bit of a work to 
actually paint. 

1077
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:30,720
I think the Black Guards painted
very nicely. 

1078
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,480
I think that was a pleasure to 
paint for some reason. 

1079
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:39,520
Really enjoyed that one and. 
A few units that that doesn't 

1080
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:42,920
surpass the high off version. 
They're they're the same as the 

1081
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,720
more bland. 
Yeah, they have hatred, OK, so 

1082
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:48,080
they have that. 
But but aside from that, you 

1083
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:51,480
know, stats wise, rules wise, I 
think they're pretty much the 

1084
01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:54,960
same as a Phoenix Guard. 
You know if it's like 14 points,

1085
01:11:54,960 --> 01:11:57,360
most 15, but you can give them 
heavy armour and they're 15 as 

1086
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:01,760
well, so they're about the same.
It's a nice example of this 

1087
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,680
mirror thing. 
So it's the the the evil mirror 

1088
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:09,800
of of the Phoenix car. 
Yeah, but nothing special rules 

1089
01:12:09,800 --> 01:12:11,920
wise. 
Basically, you know, sort of 

1090
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:15,040
kind of have a camera infantry. 
Sorry. 

1091
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:18,040
Yeah, pretty much. 
I'm just quickly checking. 

1092
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,560
There's no special rule. 
I've gone and said that and 

1093
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,760
we're going to go, Oh yeah, they
don't have that. 

1094
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:26,800
I don't know. 
I don't think they have any. 

1095
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:28,080
No, I don't. 
Think, I don't think they've 

1096
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:30,760
even got an entry. 
I don't think they just, they 

1097
01:12:30,760 --> 01:12:32,560
just dark health warriors in 
effect. 

1098
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:36,560
Well, elite dark health warriors
with Albert's, yeah. 

1099
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:46,320
OK, cool, cool. 
Not too much to say you've. 

1100
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:49,600
Got cross by men warriors and 
dark elk city garden. 

1101
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:52,920
Dark Elk City Guard are 
interesting because the concept 

1102
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:58,280
of the split unit are you having
Spearman and a missile troop in 

1103
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:03,240
front of them in the same unit 
comes from well, obviously 

1104
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:08,080
history, but from a Warhammer 
perspective, higher always had a

1105
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:12,080
unit that could do that. 
In 3rd edition Merchant come 

1106
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:19,040
that were Spears or Howard's 
behind Bowman and that 

1107
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:22,480
disappeared, obviously, in the 
in the high off book in the in 

1108
01:13:22,480 --> 01:13:26,120
the white book. 
And yet dark elf gained one of 

1109
01:13:26,120 --> 01:13:32,400
that, which is yeah, kind of 
kind of a bit strange, but I 

1110
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:34,400
would think they're probably the
ultimate defensive unit. 

1111
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:38,480
OK, OK, high offs had Lothian 
sea guard, which were equipped 

1112
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:42,480
with both spear and mist weapon,
but this is slightly different. 

1113
01:13:42,480 --> 01:13:45,280
So they're cheaper crucial 
because your front rank has the 

1114
01:13:45,320 --> 01:13:47,520
crossbows and then after that 
you've got the Spears. 

1115
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:50,360
So probably quite a very good 
defensive unit. 

1116
01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:52,840
I'd thought, I haven't played 
with them, I don't know, but 

1117
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:57,040
they they seem on paper like a 
really good defensive unit, you 

1118
01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:59,080
know, because he's they can 
fight in both ranks in close 

1119
01:13:59,080 --> 01:13:59,800
combat. 
So. 

1120
01:14:00,440 --> 01:14:05,240
Yeah, and modus wise where they 
the variously normal warriors 

1121
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:07,800
that. 
You just, yeah, you just spear 

1122
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,600
men and and crossbow men in a 
combined unit, I think. 

1123
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:13,360
So they never released any 
special? 

1124
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:19,520
No, no, no, they didn't. 
Right. 

1125
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:22,640
So yeah, but as you said, an 
interesting show. 

1126
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:25,400
I actually didn't even remember 
they were there until you said 

1127
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:25,920
it. 
So. 

1128
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:28,920
But that's true. 
They they had only just very 

1129
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:33,480
short appearance. 
So it's in in 6th edition gave 4

1130
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:39,160
didn't like the concept because 
he said it's the the dark AFS 

1131
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:45,600
are pirates and marauders. 
They don't fight their battles 

1132
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:48,080
on their own ground or less on 
their own grounds. 

1133
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:51,480
So it's no need for the concept 
of city guards. 

1134
01:14:51,480 --> 01:14:56,440
So use your your your your 
troops guarding the cities. 

1135
01:14:56,440 --> 01:15:01,480
So it's and why take them far 
away into battle? 

1136
01:15:01,480 --> 01:15:05,800
So it's he dropped the concept 
completely and it disappeared. 

1137
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:11,600
Was it in the? 
Was it in the kind of in all the

1138
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,080
six edition books they had 
additional army lists? 

1139
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:17,080
There was a specialist which. 
Yeah. 

1140
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:20,320
They played a bit around with 
the concept, but it's. 

1141
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:23,960
It's yeah, it's. 
Kind of your opponent has to 

1142
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:25,360
agree to it sort of thing, isn't
it? 

1143
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:27,520
It's not. 
It's not as standard. 

1144
01:15:28,440 --> 01:15:30,080
Right. 
And then you have the of course 

1145
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:35,080
the basic warriors, you could 
have sword, a shield of spear, 

1146
01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:37,920
and. 
That's also very interesting 

1147
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:44,240
that the the 4th edition has the
the classic warrior, which is 

1148
01:15:44,480 --> 01:15:49,200
also something the highest did 
not have personal counterpart. 

1149
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:53,560
So maybe a bit the the the 
shadow warriors, but they are 

1150
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:56,840
already especially in other 
ways. 

1151
01:15:57,720 --> 01:16:04,000
And then in in later editions, 
the Warriors also disappeared to

1152
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:10,160
reappear into the 8th edition. 
Yeah, they did. 

1153
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,640
I mean, I think the high off 
book had warriors a separate. 

1154
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:16,080
Yeah, they did. 
They had warriors a separate 

1155
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:18,480
option, but there were no models
released in fourth for them. 

1156
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:21,800
They did have warriors as a 
separate option to Spearman. 

1157
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:25,800
So they're mirroring high off 
book in that sense because 

1158
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:28,400
obviously bear in mind, you 
know, hope it was one of the 

1159
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:34,720
early books. 
So you're High Elves back then 

1160
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:36,120
there were quite a lot of elf 
models. 

1161
01:16:36,120 --> 01:16:37,400
They weren't necessarily High 
elves. 

1162
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:39,520
There was no distinction in High
Elf and would have really in 

1163
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:41,360
models that much. 
There were some that definitely 

1164
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,880
were one or the other, but 
generally speaking, it's kind of

1165
01:16:44,480 --> 01:16:46,720
it blurred the lines. 
A lot of those were hand weapon 

1166
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:47,360
arms. 
So if. 

1167
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:50,160
You're. 
Using your old high elf army 

1168
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:52,960
then you'd have probably wanted 
to still have warriors and and 

1169
01:16:52,960 --> 01:16:58,400
certainly if you're using the 
pre 4th edition dark elves then 

1170
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:02,160
Spears. 
Really rare model for dark elves

1171
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:04,120
to have. 
So most of them were just armed 

1172
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:06,720
with, well actually a lot of 
them were armed with hand 

1173
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,160
weapon, shield and crossbow on 
their back. 

1174
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:13,480
So. 
Yeah, so I guess that's why they

1175
01:17:13,480 --> 01:17:16,200
included the dark Elf warriors 
still and obviously as there was

1176
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:21,160
the plastic, as you said, the 
plastic my post that had a sword

1177
01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:24,680
and if you're lucky then the 
metal ones. 

1178
01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:26,040
I've got 1 knocking around 
somewhere. 

1179
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:28,000
Are those I don't know how 
Manchuka? 

1180
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:30,160
I think it was in the eBay lot. 
It just happened to be in there.

1181
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:32,840
As opposed to what? 
If if you have a metal once, be 

1182
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:34,840
happy. 
It's yeah. 

1183
01:17:36,040 --> 01:17:39,480
OK. 
We are quite quite expensive. 

1184
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:44,440
It's nearly the same range like 
executed. 

1185
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:49,160
And that was just in a lot. 
I didn't buy it for that model. 

1186
01:17:49,160 --> 01:17:51,280
It was just kind of in amongst 
stuff that I bought. 

1187
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:55,680
It was somebody in there. 
Yeah, quite, quite. 

1188
01:17:55,920 --> 01:17:59,120
Yeah, kind of like the. 
Monopoles. 

1189
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:01,760
I think they. 
Are quite all right actually, 

1190
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:05,520
when you paint them up, I mean, 
and it's 2 versions, so it's the

1191
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:10,240
metal versions, so it's you 
have. 2 versions, 2 were merged 

1192
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:14,600
into each other just for 
creating the plastic 1, so it's 

1193
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:18,040
the metal ones are quite nice, 
yeah. 

1194
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:19,600
It's hard to. 
Rank up. 

1195
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:24,920
But if you you put them a bit, 
yeah, I put my 1. 

1196
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:28,320
So yeah, to put. 
Them sort of different places on

1197
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:34,600
the the basis it works, but 
needs a bit planning all right 

1198
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:35,600
so. 
And then the. 

1199
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:37,560
Crossbows, of course. 
We talked about the repeated 

1200
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:41,480
crossbows as Dutch, and I guess 
they're not Nothing special 

1201
01:18:41,480 --> 01:18:44,000
about them apart from actually 
having crossbows. 

1202
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:50,320
So can put out quite a lot of 
bolts, so with a. 

1203
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:52,800
Decent rate, yeah, with a. 
Decent ballistic. 

1204
01:18:52,800 --> 01:18:56,440
Skill obviously at -1 for the 
repeater, but they're, you know,

1205
01:18:56,440 --> 01:19:00,000
the ballistic skill of four 
initially should compensate 

1206
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,480
enough for that that you're 
still fit. 

1207
01:19:01,480 --> 01:19:06,200
You're hitting, you know, 50% 
but twice. 

1208
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:11,240
So you should get more shots hit
actually than normal high off 

1209
01:19:11,240 --> 01:19:14,880
unit of Bowman. 
So yeah, it's. 

1210
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:17,560
Yeah, I'm, I'm going. 
To I'm going to stop being 

1211
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:23,880
bitter. 
Yeah, and also. 

1212
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:28,960
As I said, pretty iconic for 
dockets, so defensive unit, but 

1213
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,160
you probably see them in quite a
few lists. 

1214
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:35,520
All right, so is that it for two
choices? 

1215
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:37,880
Then you've got scouts. 
Scouts. 

1216
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:40,960
Yeah, of. 
Course, but no models. 

1217
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,480
In the fall? 
Not for scouts. 

1218
01:19:44,480 --> 01:19:46,800
Well, of course it's not for 
scouts, but scouts. 

1219
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:48,400
Somehow managed to get bliss 
skill of five. 

1220
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:50,560
I'm not sure how that how that 
works. 

1221
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:53,520
And they're they're really very 
good shots. 

1222
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:57,480
So how do they compare to Shadow
Warriors? 

1223
01:19:57,920 --> 01:19:59,080
They are. 
They're units. 

1224
01:19:59,880 --> 01:20:01,360
Take a guess. 
They're not. 

1225
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:04,720
You know Shadow Warriors aren't.
As good it's, you know, scouts 

1226
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,480
are better, they got the hate. 
Although to be fair, shadow 

1227
01:20:07,480 --> 01:20:09,720
warriors do hate dark elves, so 
at least you've got that. 

1228
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:15,240
But yeah, no, they, they have 
their repeating crossbow and 

1229
01:20:15,240 --> 01:20:18,080
bliss is skill of five. 
So there is no competition. 

1230
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,760
Shadow warriors are bliss is 
skill four and then you have a 

1231
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:23,600
boat. 
So they're getting two shots at 

1232
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:27,360
least it's skill of five. 
Yeah, what's what's what it's 

1233
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:32,000
going to be very messy the the 
outcome of of them shooting 

1234
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,120
anyone. 
So they're very good, obviously.

1235
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:37,440
And they can skirt and have the 
scout special rule as well. 

1236
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,720
Whereas whereas shadow warriors 
don't have they, they, they can 

1237
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:43,280
scourge where they don't have 
the scout special rule. 

1238
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:48,600
So you know they, they are far 
superior to shadow in every way 

1239
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:51,280
shape or form. 
There is no contest. 

1240
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:54,280
They are on a par with wood elf 
scouts. 

1241
01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:57,480
Although obviously wood elf 
scouts only have a bow, but 

1242
01:20:57,480 --> 01:21:00,800
there is an extra -1 to save. 
So you could make an argument 

1243
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:02,520
for them being roughly about the
same. 

1244
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:06,960
But yeah, far. 
Superior to Shadow Warriors. 

1245
01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:12,840
Both of them and it's the only. 
Regiment which never get really 

1246
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:17,760
miniatures designed in the 4th 
edition there was really no no 

1247
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:22,520
attempt to design miniatures 
yeah yeah don't know the reason 

1248
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:24,320
why we did put. 
From 1 of this. 

1249
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:29,800
So it's, I know that the, the 
Army books were often written in

1250
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:33,440
in, yeah, in advance before the 
miniature design starts. 

1251
01:21:33,440 --> 01:21:39,320
So Jervis said, which tried to 
cover what might be possible 

1252
01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:40,480
and. 
When? 

1253
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:45,280
We we see what could be 
realised, but yeah, there was, 

1254
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:48,720
there was. 
I think it was already in the. 

1255
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:52,960
5th Edition. 
Where Shane Hoyle did a regiment

1256
01:21:52,960 --> 01:21:55,920
of of scouts which was never 
released. 

1257
01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:03,880
But from from quality side, it 
looks more or like some, some 

1258
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:09,080
some test designs. 
So the weapon design is very 

1259
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:14,440
small. 
And so we did not fit the range 

1260
01:22:14,440 --> 01:22:17,800
nicely. 
Well, it's it's also got very 

1261
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:23,240
one that. 
Thinking was linear in a sense 

1262
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:26,200
for they're coming from position
of already having models for a 

1263
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:30,840
lot of these things in, you 
know, in the back catalog, yet 

1264
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:34,200
quite hit that every time you 
release line, but you have to 

1265
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:37,640
redo every single unit. 
That mentality hadn't hit yet. 

1266
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:41,320
So if you look at you know, the 
well, the empire book and hive 

1267
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:43,200
books are slightly different 
because they did overhauls of 

1268
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:47,080
the entire ranges with Empire. 
It was, you know, it was a 

1269
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:50,080
flagship for the release. 
You know, they redid the empire 

1270
01:22:50,080 --> 01:22:53,240
book, You know, sorry, the 
empire range for that Hiles. 

1271
01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:56,320
They weren't really great high 
off models beforehand. 

1272
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:59,440
Yes, yes, Jess did some 
brilliant elf models that they 

1273
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:00,880
elfs those have touched on 
before. 

1274
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,680
They're elves. 
They're not high olds as such. 

1275
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:06,680
They redid them when you get 
into the Orkin Goblin book, they

1276
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:09,400
redid some of the lists and some
of the new entries got models, 

1277
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:12,520
but a lot of the other ones you 
just use what they already had. 

1278
01:23:12,720 --> 01:23:14,840
So all boys didn't get any new 
models. 

1279
01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:19,120
You could easily just use all 
Cara boys and all crossbow boys 

1280
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:21,320
were, you know, all Cara boys 
with crossbows. 

1281
01:23:21,320 --> 01:23:23,840
They used the old ones, the 
dwarfs. 

1282
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:28,680
They pulled most of the dwarf 
range during fourth was a third 

1283
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,040
edition range with a few extra 
bits. 

1284
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:36,920
So the concept of an entire 
overhaul of the entire range, it

1285
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:38,840
wasn't It wasn't really there 
yet. 

1286
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:42,480
So I guess because it was, there
were models you could use as 

1287
01:23:42,480 --> 01:23:44,760
scouts. 
OK, they didn't really fit 

1288
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:47,040
brilliantly. 
They they didn't look completely

1289
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:49,120
out of place. 
They didn't fit brilliantly. 

1290
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:51,920
And that's that's kind of why 
maybe because they weren't in 

1291
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:54,280
that place of rejoining every 
single model. 

1292
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:57,200
There weren't until the 6th 
edition, I guess that hit 

1293
01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:58,080
exactly. 
Yeah, there. 

1294
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,160
Were no Corsairs, they had to do
models of those. 

1295
01:24:00,360 --> 01:24:02,880
There were no black card. 
They had to do models of those 

1296
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:05,080
and they did the Spearman and 
crossman because that's, you 

1297
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:10,920
know, bog standard thing to do, 
you know, so not to do some 

1298
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:16,120
items for the for the list was 
it wasn't really in their 

1299
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:18,880
concept that that in their mind 
that they should have a model 

1300
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:20,760
for every single item on the 
list. 

1301
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:22,440
Yeah. 
You either used the previous one

1302
01:24:22,440 --> 01:24:24,520
or you converted something. 
Yeah. 

1303
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:26,760
And of course there was scout 
models from. 

1304
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:30,560
That you had to use then I don't
have any, but I'm on the 

1305
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:33,400
lookout. 
So if you are you doing any, why

1306
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:37,360
are we doing some of those? 
So, right, so and then. 

1307
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:39,120
Courses. 
We mentioned them. 

1308
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:42,720
Briefly also pretty nice models 
I think. 

1309
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:47,160
Yeah, very chronic as a way they
they became. 

1310
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:52,160
A flagship for later editions, 
especially because. 

1311
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:55,640
The the. 
Lead of Gay Forbes, who really 

1312
01:24:55,800 --> 01:25:04,960
put this pirate theme into into 
the centre of of of dark Elf 

1313
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:09,080
theme. 
Yeah, it's in in in 4th edition.

1314
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:13,560
They are equipped with two hand 
weapons. 

1315
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:17,960
And I have. 
Iconic sea dragon cloaks. 

1316
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:23,640
So it's it it started that quite
simple, yeah. 

1317
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:27,880
No special rules so. 
Is there otherwise, apart from 

1318
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:31,280
the cloak, yeah, I think that 
there's going to be a sea dragon

1319
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:34,640
cloak. 
So again, if you were to take a 

1320
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:38,360
view of getting better, again, 
if you had to take view of, you 

1321
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:40,880
know, like the white line cloak 
versus the sea dragon cloak, 

1322
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:42,880
there's no benefits to a white 
line click. 

1323
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:46,720
It's just a cool model. 
It's so the, you know the. 

1324
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:48,440
Again, it's building in 
something. 

1325
01:25:48,720 --> 01:25:53,160
On top of the basics. 
So it's just part of what feeds 

1326
01:25:53,160 --> 01:25:55,680
into my view. 
You know, the the the dark off 

1327
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:59,040
and the and the wood off a 
little bit Opie, But that's just

1328
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:02,080
my view. 
No, no, I think that's 

1329
01:26:02,320 --> 01:26:04,520
definitely. 
Fair, because as you say, they 

1330
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:08,560
they mirror them mostly and then
they add something that's I 

1331
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:10,600
think you see here nicely. 
What, what, What? 

1332
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:13,920
Chervis said. 
But he wants 2 which interact 

1333
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:16,880
with each other. 
So it's a you have, you have 

1334
01:26:16,880 --> 01:26:22,160
that if a repeating crossbow you
have a shooting, but only with 

1335
01:26:22,480 --> 01:26:27,280
24 inches. 
So it's you definitely have to 

1336
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:29,520
move on the battlefield with 
your shooters. 

1337
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:37,400
And also if you start moving on 
on the battlefield, you also 

1338
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:42,920
need to to to to use some 
protection and the causes are 

1339
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:48,040
very fine units to take the line
of sight and to to take the 

1340
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:54,200
shooting while rest of your 
troops start marching over the 

1341
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:56,720
battlefield. 
The other The other thing I'm 

1342
01:26:56,720 --> 01:27:02,840
nice about darkness is. 
They get a lot, a lot doing for 

1343
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:07,200
lots the right word, but more 
units can have magic banners 

1344
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:12,680
than high off unit. 
So you get your obviously you've

1345
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:17,360
got maybe not, maybe not my my I
suppose if you they've got 

1346
01:27:17,360 --> 01:27:21,040
Phoenix guards got dark. 
OK, maybe not. 

1347
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,920
Maybe it's about the same. 
Yeah, Because. 

1348
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:25,320
No, because their basic standard
troops. 

1349
01:27:25,320 --> 01:27:27,280
Can't have magic, OK? 
I was thinking that they're 

1350
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:28,680
warriors, could have magic 
bands. 

1351
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:30,440
They can't. 
So no, they they don't. 

1352
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:35,160
I'll take that one back. 
Oh, OK, Yeah, I'll be fair. 

1353
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:36,640
But they. 
Also get harm. 

1354
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:40,760
They do, but they. 
Obviously they do get harpies as

1355
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:41,680
well. 
Only one unit. 

1356
01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:44,640
Can only have one unit of them 
in Dark Air Force, whereas in 

1357
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:47,000
Chaos you can have as many as 
you want, but darkies only have 

1358
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:50,000
one unit of them. 
But they are there as well in in

1359
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,840
the infantry, not in the 
monsters section. 

1360
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:56,560
So they they it's been rank and 
filed so that that's you know 

1361
01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:59,320
quite handy for dark. 
I was that they can take them in

1362
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:01,160
rather than being a monster 
option there. 

1363
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:05,360
Yeah and solid choice as. 
Long as they. 

1364
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:06,360
Oh yeah, right away. 
No. 

1365
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:07,520
Good. 
Yeah. 

1366
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:08,720
No leadership. 
But two attack. 

1367
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:10,440
I don't know. 
I don't really want to attack I 

1368
01:28:10,440 --> 01:28:11,960
thought. 
They had two attacks or is that 

1369
01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:14,680
later editions? 
I get 2 attacks, OK. 

1370
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:16,520
I always thought half. 
He's had two attacks, OK. 

1371
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:18,520
Only one attacked. 
Them but weapons skill 4 though,

1372
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:20,720
which is quite good. 
Two wounds toughening yeah. 

1373
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:23,640
So they're basically flying 
beast, yeah. 

1374
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:27,280
Pretty much, yeah. 
Pretty survivable and of course 

1375
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:29,560
you can rank them up as well. 
So you get if you've got enough 

1376
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:34,120
models, then you get rank bonus 
on or you know, drop down from 

1377
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:35,680
the skies. 
We need rank bonus. 

1378
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:39,640
That's that's nasty. 
Yeah, they're definitely able to

1379
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:41,600
handle. 
The war machine, that's for 

1380
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:43,680
sure. 
I can handle that. 

1381
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:45,840
I can't have a banner but. 
You know they're they're a. 

1382
01:28:46,600 --> 01:28:48,440
Light. 
Infantry they could take out as 

1383
01:28:48,440 --> 01:28:52,440
well quite easily, you know, as 
long as they're light in by. 

1384
01:28:52,440 --> 01:28:53,160
Light. 
I mean, you know. 

1385
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:58,280
We're talking about units of 10.
You know, a unit of 12 to 15 

1386
01:28:58,280 --> 01:29:02,720
harpies could easily take out a 
unit of unit of 10 infantry. 

1387
01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:05,240
So they are nasty harpies. 
They're really good. 

1388
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:07,920
Really good choice. 
Yeah. 

1389
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:10,360
Do you have any thoughts? 
On. 

1390
01:29:10,680 --> 01:29:15,360
Harpies in particular, George. 
Yeah, it's I really. 

1391
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:19,840
Like the miniatures from? 
Trish, it's it's. 

1392
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:24,240
Because. 
It's also something which makes 

1393
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:30,800
the dark elves but special to 
have these fielding these beasts

1394
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:35,760
on the on on the battlefield. 
And in fourth editions it's boss

1395
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:41,120
more they had more this beast 
like character compared to later

1396
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:44,240
editions. 
I know they are sort of a 

1397
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:45,760
divider. 
Because I know some people. 

1398
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:50,160
Don't like them, the 4th edition
Harpies, but I didn't take more 

1399
01:29:50,160 --> 01:29:53,640
time. 
Yeah, nice, but very different. 

1400
01:29:53,880 --> 01:29:55,720
To what came. 
Before and what came after. 

1401
01:29:55,920 --> 01:29:59,000
Yeah, that's true. 
Yeah, I think you really. 

1402
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:00,560
Have to differentiate between 
that. 

1403
01:30:00,560 --> 01:30:04,880
Because the the later the 6th 
edition harpies with we have a 

1404
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:13,040
very female yeah, they are more 
related to Greek mythology and 

1405
01:30:14,360 --> 01:30:19,120
so we get the different spin. 
So it's yeah, yeah, definitely. 

1406
01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:26,040
I think most of the voices which
said odd it's 4th edition happy 

1407
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:30,440
suck. 
It's because they they come from

1408
01:30:30,440 --> 01:30:34,800
from year later editions when 
things have already changed. 

1409
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:40,720
I think 4th edition itself, it 
was people were happy with it. 

1410
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:42,480
Yeah, the. 
Three more. 

1411
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:46,200
Gargoyles. 
Yeah, three, 5th edition as 

1412
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:49,000
sorry, 4th edition. 
As well 5th and. 4th and 5th as 

1413
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:52,640
well. 
So there was obviously the 

1414
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:57,480
classic Margaret Thatcher. 
Yeah, Reagan, Reagan, Harpies 

1415
01:30:57,480 --> 01:30:59,120
that came. 
Before as well. 

1416
01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:01,880
So yeah, more humanoid, 
definitely. 

1417
01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:04,640
Yeah, yes, yes. 
Yeah, you, you certainly 

1418
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:06,440
wouldn't say. 
That the Margaret Thatcher one 

1419
01:31:06,440 --> 01:31:12,080
was, you know, on a par with the
6th edition in the in the Noody 

1420
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:13,520
Loody. 
Kind of sense. 

1421
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:17,920
That the the Mike that one was 
not was not slanishy in any 

1422
01:31:17,920 --> 01:31:20,280
other shape of you can you can 
make an argument that you know, 

1423
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:23,640
there was a slanish connection 
for the harpies of 6th edition, 

1424
01:31:23,640 --> 01:31:29,440
you know, being a bit, but 
certainly not the the 4th ish 

1425
01:31:29,440 --> 01:31:32,240
ones and not Reagan and and 
Thatcher from before. 

1426
01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:36,040
No, but yeah, they are. 
They are definitely very. 

1427
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:38,920
Different. 
Looking models, yeah. 

1428
01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:43,920
OK, so I think that was it for 
troops. 

1429
01:31:44,880 --> 01:31:49,080
Yeah, maybe we can just go into 
monsters. 

1430
01:31:49,080 --> 01:31:53,840
I don't know with this where we 
talked about the war Hydra, are 

1431
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:57,360
there any other choices that 
sticks out compared to other 

1432
01:31:57,400 --> 01:31:59,160
armies? 
So do they have the full 

1433
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:02,160
complement standard? 
Yeah, well, it's dot Pegasus. 

1434
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:05,000
They got the dot Pegasus. 
But that is literally I think 

1435
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:08,400
there's there's no I think it's 
literally just a dark version of

1436
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:10,480
the no pigs. 
I don't I don't think it has any

1437
01:32:10,480 --> 01:32:11,480
special rules. 
I don't. 

1438
01:32:11,480 --> 01:32:14,040
OK, so they just put dark before
it's. 

1439
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:17,280
Deeper paint that a quick check.
I'll have a quick. 

1440
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:18,720
Check while you talk. 
Amongst yourselves. 

1441
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:21,760
Yeah. 
And of course, at that time. 

1442
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:25,280
Most armies could have most 
different kinds of monsters, so 

1443
01:32:26,160 --> 01:32:32,840
yeah, that was and using the 
unridden. 

1444
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:33,960
Monsters. 
I don't think that. 

1445
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:37,200
Was a very popular show. 
It's I think it's kind of cool 

1446
01:32:37,200 --> 01:32:39,360
to be able to do it. 
I don't think it was. 

1447
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:44,280
Of course you had the the danger
of them running off. 

1448
01:32:44,440 --> 01:32:47,800
That was, I guess the the 
problem with the unrated ones. 

1449
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:51,920
Did you use some George or was 
that always? 

1450
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,480
It's a I'm a I'm a big fan of 
the chimeras. 

1451
01:32:54,960 --> 01:32:57,960
Yep. 
So it's there was also. 

1452
01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:00,360
An. 
In in 4th edition, an unreleased

1453
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:04,440
version, I think the the 
unridden. 

1454
01:33:04,440 --> 01:33:08,040
Monsters. 
Of yeah, monsters in general 

1455
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:14,360
suffered a bit in 4th edition by
the problem of the point of 

1456
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:18,720
sales, because it's you. 
They are too big for a blister 

1457
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:22,280
pack, so you just need to put 
them in the box. 

1458
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:27,280
And if you think about the 
releases, the release box types 

1459
01:33:27,280 --> 01:33:31,120
in fourth. 
In 5th edition, all monsters 

1460
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:38,440
were mounted so and and 
chimera's suffered the chimera 

1461
01:33:38,440 --> 01:33:40,280
problem. 
Where that's the right acid? 

1462
01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:47,360
So so. 
It, it's, it's very difficult to

1463
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:54,200
to, to release this, this kind 
of monster because it's, it, 

1464
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:59,440
it's yeah, you really struggle 
to transfer it into a mounted 

1465
01:33:59,440 --> 01:34:04,200
option. 
And I think the, the war Hydra 

1466
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:06,720
suffered a bit the same. 
Yeah. 

1467
01:34:06,720 --> 01:34:14,480
But we, we, we tried to overcome
this with the war Hydra 'cause 

1468
01:34:14,480 --> 01:34:17,840
we planned to put the the 
sorcerer on it. 

1469
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:22,120
And it's. 
It's it's. 

1470
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:28,360
I think the biggest unrealist 
model I'm aware of, it's, it's, 

1471
01:34:28,440 --> 01:34:33,920
it's very it's, it's a fantastic
piece of art from, from, from 

1472
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:38,880
Trish and from Ellie, the 
unreleased source of a Lord 

1473
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:39,880
writing. 
About Hydra. 

1474
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:48,240
But yeah, I'm also suffered by 
it was never released. 

1475
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:52,600
It's yeah, it's the same. 
So it's but but. 

1476
01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:55,800
But this this was. 
Really a piece which had 

1477
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:59,960
everything you need to put in 
the box to to make it really a 

1478
01:34:59,960 --> 01:35:05,480
box model. 
So it's you have, you have, you 

1479
01:35:05,480 --> 01:35:09,760
have a beast, you have the 
rider, you have also the the the

1480
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:14,160
giant banner poles with you can 
design the banners for him. 

1481
01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:18,240
So it's there were really 
chances that they're good. 

1482
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:20,520
To make. 
This in one of our iconic box 

1483
01:35:20,520 --> 01:35:27,720
models of 4th edition but it was
never released so and it just 

1484
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:34,760
was I think yeah and Chimera's 
suffered yeah but from another 

1485
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:38,360
point of view because we we 
never get a right a right for it

1486
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:44,920
and so this section is a bit 
limited to to the beasts which 

1487
01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:50,160
were released as mounted sets 
yeah that's true there were for 

1488
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:54,480
some of the. 3rd Edition. 
Yeah, shows that you can do 

1489
01:35:54,760 --> 01:35:58,720
usually pretty small, not much 
bigger than a horse, some of 

1490
01:35:58,720 --> 01:36:02,040
them, but yeah, they they are 
available and I like them. 

1491
01:36:02,200 --> 01:36:07,160
So I'm trying to get this man a 
second I've for my wool hydro. 

1492
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:10,040
I've picked up the. 
Round Panther? 

1493
01:36:11,680 --> 01:36:13,520
Well, Hydra. 
Lovely model really. 

1494
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:15,800
Really nice model. 
I'll be using that one in my. 

1495
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:17,200
I think it's real. 
Is it real Palther? 

1496
01:36:17,480 --> 01:36:20,240
Yeah, it's real palther. 
Gorgeous. 

1497
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:26,480
Very Serpentine heads. 
It's got some of even have got 

1498
01:36:26,480 --> 01:36:30,800
like the the cobra hood coming 
out that's slightly different. 

1499
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:32,240
It's it's an amazing. 
Model. 

1500
01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:36,120
It's lovely. 
You know, and and also again 

1501
01:36:36,120 --> 01:36:40,360
harking back to 3rd edition and 
prior, you know, the yes, OK, 

1502
01:36:40,360 --> 01:36:43,000
Brian answer would have wanted 
you to use Citadel miniatures 

1503
01:36:43,040 --> 01:36:47,000
because it was his business. 
But it did say in the books 

1504
01:36:47,080 --> 01:36:50,840
previously, you know, there are 
other manufacturers out there. 

1505
01:36:50,840 --> 01:36:54,120
They wouldn't do that now, 
obviously, and they didn't in 

1506
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:55,200
the 3rd edition. 
There's even. 

1507
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:58,480
Mention of, you know. 
Other manufacturers, not 

1508
01:36:58,480 --> 01:37:00,640
necessarily naming them, but 
saying, you know, all sorts of 

1509
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:03,080
manufacturers out there. 
And it was that practice, you 

1510
01:37:03,080 --> 01:37:09,280
know, at that time because games
workshops weren't everywhere and

1511
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:11,840
mail order was a thing, but the 
Internet wasn't. 

1512
01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:16,240
So you just use whatever models 
you could, so you know, whether 

1513
01:37:16,240 --> 01:37:17,640
they were Games Workshop or not,
use them. 

1514
01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:20,600
So in that sense, because my 
Army is going to be kind of 

1515
01:37:20,600 --> 01:37:24,880
straddling 3rd and 4th, I think 
using that War Hydra kind of 

1516
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:29,320
fits in with that ethic of, you 
know, that that mindset of, you 

1517
01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:30,920
know, you use what you can 
source. 

1518
01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:35,360
So I'm happy to understand it's 
it's a fantastic model. 

1519
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:40,040
I can't wait to get it painted. 
It's yeah, definitely worthwhile

1520
01:37:40,040 --> 01:37:42,720
owning and going to be a 
centrepiece to the Army for 

1521
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:43,680
sure. 
Yeah. 

1522
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:48,680
Will there be a lot of painting?
I I go. 

1523
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:52,920
Down. 
The glue and baking soda root to

1524
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:56,320
make it a more solid connection 
to pinning. 

1525
01:37:56,320 --> 01:37:59,480
I I can never get pins to line 
up properly. 

1526
01:37:59,680 --> 01:38:02,280
No that's my issue as well. 
I'm I'm having the. 

1527
01:38:02,440 --> 01:38:07,120
It's I think it's it's 66 
addition hydra and it's just so 

1528
01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:08,720
much pinning. 
I'm not looking forward to it 

1529
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:12,040
and I have the same issue. 
They usually don't align 100% 

1530
01:38:12,040 --> 01:38:15,680
and looks like it's and even if 
I even if I can't do that whole 

1531
01:38:15,680 --> 01:38:17,200
a. 
Lot of paint on the end of the 

1532
01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:20,320
pin, still doesn't allow by the 
time I'm done. 

1533
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:22,360
It's in the wrong. 
Place and then it doesn't. 

1534
01:38:22,720 --> 01:38:25,120
You're not with a kink in the 
pin or something like that. 

1535
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:29,200
It doesn't work. 
I go down the baking. 

1536
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:33,000
Soda and and super glue root and
try to make a solid bond that 

1537
01:38:33,000 --> 01:38:35,120
way and use it to fill in gaps 
as well. 

1538
01:38:35,720 --> 01:38:40,840
Like with the textured skin of 
the hydra. 

1539
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:43,720
I think it's going to pretty 
much mask the bobbly super glue 

1540
01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:47,040
effect you end up with after 
using the you get away with it 

1541
01:38:47,200 --> 01:38:49,040
and soda, yeah. 
Absolutely. 

1542
01:38:49,040 --> 01:38:52,840
So that's that's my. 
Plan anyway and we'll see I'll 

1543
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:55,040
once I've painted it, I said 
that hopefully doing it at the 

1544
01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:58,240
end of this year, if not 
starting next year, I'll post it

1545
01:38:58,240 --> 01:38:59,440
up. 
You guys can make your comment 

1546
01:38:59,440 --> 01:39:01,240
whether it works or not, don't 
know we'll see. 

1547
01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:06,240
Cool. 
One thing you did skip, 

1548
01:39:06,240 --> 01:39:08,000
actually. 
We we skipped war machines, 

1549
01:39:08,080 --> 01:39:10,400
don't there's a lot to we've 
already done. 

1550
01:39:10,400 --> 01:39:13,280
But George. 
What about Cauldron of Blood 

1551
01:39:13,280 --> 01:39:14,040
then? 
I think you've. 

1552
01:39:14,040 --> 01:39:16,600
Seen you've got one of those 
painted up a cauldron of blood. 

1553
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:19,320
Or do I make that? 
Am I wrong there? 

1554
01:39:19,680 --> 01:39:22,400
No, it's, it's it's it's, it's 
one of the. 

1555
01:39:22,680 --> 01:39:24,840
Things I still have on my to do 
to do this. 

1556
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:31,760
Oh, OK. 
What do you think? 

1557
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:33,800
To it though, that's I'm I'm 
I'm. 

1558
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:38,080
Really addicted to what? 
A whole cane topic. 

1559
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:46,400
So it's it it it it comes later,
it's in in so in in 6th edition 

1560
01:39:46,440 --> 01:39:51,680
I, I get addicted to wet first 
was it it was doing the storm of

1561
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:56,680
chaos thing and he have a 
pleasure culture risers and I I 

1562
01:39:56,680 --> 01:40:01,440
started in team slanish because 
I forked OK all all this, this 

1563
01:40:01,440 --> 01:40:04,000
this cane stuff was quite boring
and. 

1564
01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:10,160
Switched later with laughter 
Hellebrand and my my 6th edition

1565
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:15,480
army is completely yeah, 
dedicated to Kane. 

1566
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:25,120
So it's and, but I always 
struggled to really set up 

1567
01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:30,640
really good, yeah, miniatures 
for the for the, for the cutover

1568
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:33,920
of blood. 
I I really like the, the design 

1569
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:36,720
of the 4th edition. 
It's quite simple. 

1570
01:40:37,120 --> 01:40:40,480
I dislike it from the 6th 
edition. 

1571
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:44,000
The the stationary thing, which 
doesn't work well for me. 

1572
01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:52,840
And it took a long time until 
September developed that, yeah, 

1573
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:57,400
mythical war machine that we 
know today for the 8th edition, 

1574
01:40:58,560 --> 01:41:03,160
which where he, he really was 
able to bring everything 

1575
01:41:03,160 --> 01:41:08,200
together, making this an iconic,
really iconic model, which 

1576
01:41:08,200 --> 01:41:10,000
really took a lot. 
Of. 

1577
01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:13,120
Design elements from the 4th 
edition 1. 

1578
01:41:13,120 --> 01:41:18,600
So it's I think Ellie did a 
great job there designing the 

1579
01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:23,000
the, the the details and the 
miniatures in time. 

1580
01:41:24,680 --> 01:41:26,440
And it was. 
It was a bit. 

1581
01:41:26,440 --> 01:41:30,080
Late to the party, so it doesn't
hit the the the main release. 

1582
01:41:30,080 --> 01:41:37,520
I think it was White Dwarf 209. 
It was released alongside the 

1583
01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:48,440
new High Elf released in in 5th 
edition when it makes it its 

1584
01:41:48,440 --> 01:41:52,160
appearance. 
Yep, still to. 

1585
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:58,240
Find that minute that would be 
nice So in in the game, I mean 

1586
01:41:58,240 --> 01:42:01,400
we said that dock and so our 
which also pretty nice yes, they

1587
01:42:01,400 --> 01:42:04,720
are. 
So how much better do they get 

1588
01:42:04,720 --> 01:42:07,800
from? 
I'm not I'm not aware of the 4th

1589
01:42:07,800 --> 01:42:12,080
edition rules. 
So because having played, having

1590
01:42:12,160 --> 01:42:14,960
this, this cane list with two 
catrons, I played in the, in the

1591
01:42:15,040 --> 01:42:22,600
in, in in the later editions, 
that was really nasty because it

1592
01:42:22,760 --> 01:42:26,600
offers a lot of protection and 
additional damage output to your

1593
01:42:26,600 --> 01:42:29,400
troops. 
So it's yeah, two curtains, 1 is

1594
01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:33,080
a general and 1 is a better 
standard bureaus, different, 

1595
01:42:33,440 --> 01:42:39,000
different banner of margaritas. 
So it's that's was really was 

1596
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:44,840
was was was really fun to play 
and. 

1597
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:47,520
Yeah, but. 
Yeah, not aware of for for the 

1598
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:49,360
different rules. 
Maybe Dave has a bit more into 

1599
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:51,360
it. 
Let's have a look. 

1600
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:57,440
I've not used 1 so. 
Shooting is between cauldron 

1601
01:42:58,000 --> 01:43:01,240
keeper. 
OK, so one would be hitting the 

1602
01:43:01,240 --> 01:43:03,240
keeper of the cauldron. 
So that's the character I'm 

1603
01:43:03,240 --> 01:43:06,040
guessing two to three, the 
guardians 4 to 6 the cauldron. 

1604
01:43:06,040 --> 01:43:09,240
So it's got a fair, you know, 
fair, fair bit of protection 

1605
01:43:09,240 --> 01:43:24,040
there from shooting. 
OK, so we're back on this, the 

1606
01:43:24,440 --> 01:43:27,880
debut, the. 
Short break to check out the 

1607
01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:32,360
Cauldron of Blood. 
So which? 

1608
01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:34,480
Shows we had 18 inches of the 
cauldron of blood. 

1609
01:43:34,680 --> 01:43:39,920
First round of combat Triple 
their attacks, Double triple 

1610
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:42,960
their attacks We we remember 
that we. 

1611
01:43:42,960 --> 01:43:48,600
Remember that which of euro 
we've helped yield on of riding 

1612
01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:53,120
war hyper triple their attacks. 
That's that's just that's. 

1613
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:55,440
Nasty. 
Does it say it's just the troops

1614
01:43:55,440 --> 01:43:57,520
that does it or would the? 
Heroes as well. 

1615
01:43:57,520 --> 01:43:58,520
It's just a witch. 
Else. 

1616
01:43:58,520 --> 01:44:00,560
Yeah, yeah. 
Or which else? 

1617
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:06,560
And I, I will quantify that I'll
actually put put a value on that

1618
01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:10,200
why that is the case. 
Because then the second rule is 

1619
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:13,680
that if a witch health is slain 
within 18 inches of the cauldron

1620
01:44:13,680 --> 01:44:16,920
of blood, they get a special 6 
plus savings which of characters

1621
01:44:16,920 --> 01:44:18,400
survived with one wound 
remaining. 

1622
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:22,000
So it's confined that these 
rules cover. 

1623
01:44:22,120 --> 01:44:23,040
Characters. 
As well. 

1624
01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:25,400
Yeah. 
So how, how was it in 4th 

1625
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:26,080
edition? 
Was it? 

1626
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:30,080
Kept 10 attacks or ten were 
statistics or could it go above 

1627
01:44:30,080 --> 01:44:34,080
the 10 statistics were? 
But. 

1628
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:38,560
Then again, you couldn't have a 
Dark Elf general, so therefore 

1629
01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:41,680
the attacks would only go up to 
9 because there was 3 attacks 

1630
01:44:41,680 --> 01:44:45,160
tripled and then any additional 
weapons or additional weapons, 

1631
01:44:45,160 --> 01:44:47,400
yeah. 
So 9 would have been the maximum

1632
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:49,200
that they could get out of that.
OK, Yep. 

1633
01:44:50,240 --> 01:44:53,880
Plus, you know you plus. 
Look because the rest on stats. 

1634
01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:56,280
If you say, I mean if you have a
magic weapon, additional hand 

1635
01:44:56,280 --> 01:44:59,240
weapon, that's on top of yeah, 
so it could get to roll more 

1636
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:02,160
than 9 attacks or. 
More attacks exactly, but your 

1637
01:45:02,160 --> 01:45:04,440
stat line in effect would don't 
generate. 

1638
01:45:04,440 --> 01:45:09,400
Up to 9 at maximum if you that's
a bit weak, but OK. 

1639
01:45:09,400 --> 01:45:09,960
Yeah. 
Oh yeah, that's. 

1640
01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:11,360
Terrible. 
Useless. 

1641
01:45:12,320 --> 01:45:14,880
Yes, 9 attacks. 
That's awful, Yeah. 

1642
01:45:15,520 --> 01:45:19,760
That's the main thing, but. 
There is one slight downside OK,

1643
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:22,040
and that is when they charge 
into combat. 

1644
01:45:22,040 --> 01:45:26,040
With a cauldron. 
Of blood, it doesn't give impact

1645
01:45:26,040 --> 01:45:29,440
hits. 
Oh, OK, yeah, that's horrible. 

1646
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:33,520
You. 
Don't get the D6D6 plus 2O, 

1647
01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:37,720
that's awful. 
Yeah, that's that's the only 

1648
01:45:37,720 --> 01:45:40,600
downside is you don't. 
Receive that, Yeah, I think we 

1649
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:43,120
can live with that. 
Yeah, right. 

1650
01:45:43,120 --> 01:45:46,680
So yeah, that's the rather short
list of war machines. 

1651
01:45:46,840 --> 01:45:49,440
That's boat floor, boat floor, 
boat floor. 

1652
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:51,000
Yeah, yeah, we did talked a bit 
about. 

1653
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:53,560
That before so that you. 
Want to? 

1654
01:45:53,680 --> 01:45:57,400
Yeah, for sure. 
Yeah, it's. 

1655
01:45:58,360 --> 01:46:03,080
I think also very very important
unit you see in every. 

1656
01:46:03,080 --> 01:46:08,920
Dark Elf army. 
And yeah, well, in most, most 

1657
01:46:08,920 --> 01:46:15,640
cases, two of them and I think 
also one of the most common war 

1658
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:16,800
machines use. 
So it's. 

1659
01:46:17,440 --> 01:46:18,920
Yeah, pretty. 
Solid. 

1660
01:46:19,400 --> 01:46:20,440
Yeah. 
Yeah, it is. 

1661
01:46:20,440 --> 01:46:22,400
Of course you don't. 
Need to have any skills? 

1662
01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:26,240
In guest ranging or about 
basically skills to know that 

1663
01:46:26,240 --> 01:46:28,640
you're in range maybe. 
But apart from that, it's just 

1664
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:32,560
go on and shoot and see things 
die. 

1665
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:36,200
The bane of Cabrio, of course. 
Plus you don't have any save, 

1666
01:46:36,200 --> 01:46:39,160
right? 
So is that for the single bolt 

1667
01:46:39,160 --> 01:46:42,880
or is it No both on the single 
bolt, Yeah, well, no safe. 

1668
01:46:43,560 --> 01:46:45,000
And. 
One of the few. 

1669
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:47,840
Things where the hiles 
definitely win that argument on 

1670
01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:52,120
the on the on the repeater bolt 
there's no limit on on them in 

1671
01:46:52,120 --> 01:46:56,360
obviously you've got the maximum
you can take in a 25% Yeah, 

1672
01:46:56,360 --> 01:46:58,240
exactly. 
You've got that, but aside. 

1673
01:46:58,240 --> 01:47:00,360
From that though. 
You know, there's with the 

1674
01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:02,920
darker, I don't know if you see 
the edition that I've got that 

1675
01:47:02,920 --> 01:47:05,880
causes this, but where I'm 
looking at this rule book here, 

1676
01:47:06,240 --> 01:47:11,080
it's saying one per 10 darker of
Warriors, Spearman, Crossman, 

1677
01:47:11,240 --> 01:47:14,440
City Guard or Blackout Corsairs.
Is that the same in my actual 

1678
01:47:14,440 --> 01:47:15,880
book? 
Let's have a quick look. 

1679
01:47:16,280 --> 01:47:19,000
Yeah, that was also some of the 
changes we made in the later 

1680
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,200
editions. 
At the beginning it was only 

1681
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:28,440
Corsairs and I think Warriors. 
Oh OK, so they widened the shows

1682
01:47:28,520 --> 01:47:29,280
you have? 
To have. 

1683
01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:31,120
Corsairs. 
You don't have. 

1684
01:47:31,480 --> 01:47:36,760
One, you know, for each. 
For each regiment of of 10 or 

1685
01:47:36,760 --> 01:47:39,920
more dark Earth warriors or 
plague Earth courses, and this 

1686
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:42,640
was changed and it was also for 
50 points. 

1687
01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:44,920
I was 50 points then as well. 
OK. 

1688
01:47:44,960 --> 01:47:48,120
At the early beginning, yeah. 
OK, so so they they. 

1689
01:47:48,200 --> 01:47:50,880
They they're on a. 
Par then with the high elves in 

1690
01:47:50,880 --> 01:47:54,800
that sense, but they are 
obviously restricted to, you 

1691
01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:59,480
know, down to the troop types 
taking the repeater, whereas 

1692
01:47:59,480 --> 01:48:04,640
with the high elves, that's my 
memory shaky. 

1693
01:48:05,800 --> 01:48:08,360
Let's just check on that one and
obviously. 

1694
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:09,880
At. 
At 50 points, they're an 

1695
01:48:09,880 --> 01:48:12,400
absolute. 
Steal and at yeah points they're

1696
01:48:12,400 --> 01:48:16,920
still useful. 
So I think that's not not a bad 

1697
01:48:17,560 --> 01:48:20,440
change to make them hundred 
points, 50 watts. 

1698
01:48:20,920 --> 01:48:23,360
Yeah, they're they're they're a 
great piece of kit. 

1699
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:28,240
Yeah, yeah, 100%. 
They're fantastic. 

1700
01:48:28,800 --> 01:48:30,880
Yep. 
Always. 

1701
01:48:31,360 --> 01:48:33,160
You know, you pretty much always
have something to. 

1702
01:48:33,160 --> 01:48:37,520
Shoot. 
So get most of it and of course 

1703
01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:40,680
48 inches of range, it's not 
really very limited. 

1704
01:48:41,720 --> 01:48:47,240
You can hit lost all right, so. 
Special characters. 

1705
01:48:48,080 --> 01:48:50,440
Witch King. 
Yeah, Witch King. 

1706
01:48:50,880 --> 01:48:54,240
Start there Witch king. 
He's daddy of all darker. 

1707
01:48:54,240 --> 01:48:59,720
Well, not literally there might 
be, but yeah, the, you know, 

1708
01:48:59,920 --> 01:49:03,240
male kiss a nice a nice touch 
they put in with the back story 

1709
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:07,120
of the when they started 
developing the high elves and 

1710
01:49:07,120 --> 01:49:12,280
just yeah, a great image. 
Shame, shame it never got the 

1711
01:49:12,280 --> 01:49:17,160
actual model released in fourth 
because that that piece of 

1712
01:49:17,160 --> 01:49:22,040
artwork is phenomenal. 
It's, it's I, I know from from 

1713
01:49:22,040 --> 01:49:26,880
Ellen Merritt that he had at. 
At least at at the principal 

1714
01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:32,160
chariot design in his drawer of 
of of unreleased stuff. 

1715
01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:38,120
But it never got finished. 
And it's yeah, Malik could never

1716
01:49:38,120 --> 01:49:39,040
get. 
Dominiation. 

1717
01:49:39,800 --> 01:49:42,200
So you don't actually have that 
miniature, do you? 

1718
01:49:42,360 --> 01:49:45,960
Concept miniature. 
So I would, I would. 

1719
01:49:46,040 --> 01:49:48,080
Really be interested. 
In in. 

1720
01:49:48,080 --> 01:49:55,440
In how that how even the basic 
design look, because it's yeah, 

1721
01:49:55,440 --> 01:49:58,960
it is. 
I'm thank God for being blessed 

1722
01:49:58,960 --> 01:50:05,080
with some sculpting skills and 
definitely love to copy it and 

1723
01:50:06,160 --> 01:50:10,440
and finish it in some way. 
Yeah. 

1724
01:50:10,440 --> 01:50:16,400
But even no pictures exists. 
It's it's always difficult to 

1725
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:20,160
create something that from 
scratch. 

1726
01:50:20,520 --> 01:50:23,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Well, I'm sure someone. 

1727
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:25,400
Will have a stab at. 
It at some. 

1728
01:50:25,400 --> 01:50:30,920
Point maybe, but have to wait. 
All right, what's next on the 

1729
01:50:30,920 --> 01:50:32,320
special? 
Character list. 

1730
01:50:33,000 --> 01:50:35,720
Yeah, I think we we definitely 
have to talk about. 

1731
01:50:35,720 --> 01:50:40,320
Rakaf and his Black Dragons as 
one of the most iconic models of

1732
01:50:41,240 --> 01:50:45,080
the 4th edition range. 
Yeah, I just finished building 

1733
01:50:45,080 --> 01:50:48,000
the dragon. 
I only have. 1/2 a Rakaf. 

1734
01:50:48,280 --> 01:50:51,680
I have the lower half so I don't
have the full model actually, 

1735
01:50:51,680 --> 01:50:56,440
but it's a cool one definitely. 
So I guess you have one of those

1736
01:50:56,440 --> 01:50:58,640
painted up? 
No, not yet. 

1737
01:50:58,760 --> 01:51:03,440
So I I have painted. 
All these in in in it's very 

1738
01:51:03,440 --> 01:51:05,360
early on me. 
I have painted. 

1739
01:51:08,280 --> 01:51:13,840
So it's it's it's it's it's it's
build it and it's it's still 

1740
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:19,240
waiting for for it's paint job. 
But I'm with this bigger 

1741
01:51:19,240 --> 01:51:21,080
projects. 
I'm always struggling with the 

1742
01:51:21,080 --> 01:51:24,080
bases. 
So I'm making a really a nice 

1743
01:51:24,240 --> 01:51:31,320
base design which which covers 
my my theme and which is, yeah, 

1744
01:51:31,720 --> 01:51:34,680
in the same degree of detail as 
the miniature itself. 

1745
01:51:35,280 --> 01:51:39,040
It's always something which took
you years. 

1746
01:51:39,120 --> 01:51:43,000
For example, for my last base I 
built for my, my, my Sorcerer. 

1747
01:51:43,520 --> 01:51:45,600
That was really a long, long 
process. 

1748
01:51:45,600 --> 01:51:50,400
So it's these are always things 
which were a big hurdle. 

1749
01:51:50,920 --> 01:51:52,840
Yeah, OK. 
Especially for bigger 

1750
01:51:52,840 --> 01:51:54,320
miniatures. 
Yeah. 

1751
01:51:54,320 --> 01:51:58,880
So that's definitely. 
Have to do to do this one, but 

1752
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:02,960
it's it's, it's it's, it's a 
very fantastic, fantastic model.

1753
01:52:02,960 --> 01:52:08,800
It's based on the on, on the S 
shaped dragon design from Trish.

1754
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:17,440
The first one was the the the 
dragon she designed for the 

1755
01:52:17,440 --> 01:52:24,360
Talisman expansion, the plastic,
the plastic version and while 

1756
01:52:24,360 --> 01:52:27,840
designing the plastic version, 
which is not a free up because 

1757
01:52:27,840 --> 01:52:29,960
Medragon's so big, she did it as
A2 up. 

1758
01:52:32,560 --> 01:52:39,840
And while she designed that, she
also did some production stand 

1759
01:52:39,840 --> 01:52:43,680
in. 
They often did that for taking 

1760
01:52:43,680 --> 01:52:51,160
pictures or but then for and 
this this. 

1761
01:52:51,480 --> 01:52:55,520
That's that's why a metal. 
Version of it was produced and I

1762
01:52:55,520 --> 01:53:00,200
still have also that unreleased 
prototype dragon. 

1763
01:53:00,880 --> 01:53:03,680
Yeah, I think I have two here 
lying around. 

1764
01:53:07,520 --> 01:53:09,480
There are only two in. 
Existence. 

1765
01:53:10,200 --> 01:53:12,160
No, it's it's. 
It's it's quite a lot. 

1766
01:53:12,400 --> 01:53:16,000
And it's very, very. 
Funny you, you, you people sell 

1767
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:19,120
them on eBay don't knowing what 
it is. 

1768
01:53:19,320 --> 01:53:23,560
So it's 11, but yeah, 11. 
I did. 

1769
01:53:23,560 --> 01:53:29,480
I got by chance one selling that
and said yeah here a dragon all 

1770
01:53:29,480 --> 01:53:36,840
parts present or what a dragon 
needs and I got it relief keep 

1771
01:53:36,840 --> 01:53:41,160
all little money and because 
people don't know what they're 

1772
01:53:41,160 --> 01:53:45,960
selling and yeah and this this 
this one was the first it was 

1773
01:53:46,240 --> 01:53:50,280
modified a couple of times with 
different heads. 

1774
01:53:50,280 --> 01:53:54,120
There's also rumoured that 
there's an alternate black 

1775
01:53:54,120 --> 01:53:57,680
dragon hat. 
So it's but I did haven't seen 

1776
01:53:57,680 --> 01:54:03,880
it or have confirmation for that
and or maybe it's also that that

1777
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:08,280
they mean that from from a 
prototype, which is looks like 

1778
01:54:08,280 --> 01:54:13,520
the the plastic version. 
So did the did the Talisman one 

1779
01:54:13,520 --> 01:54:14,840
come before Imrich then I 
thought. 

1780
01:54:14,840 --> 01:54:18,160
Imrich was the first one, yeah, 
but Imrich has a different kind 

1781
01:54:18,160 --> 01:54:19,920
of dragon. 
You don't. 

1782
01:54:19,920 --> 01:54:22,120
What do you mean? 
It's the classic S shape of it's

1783
01:54:22,120 --> 01:54:24,800
A. 
It's a S, yeah, yeah, but it. 

1784
01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:27,640
Has the, IT, it, it, it has the 
metal. 

1785
01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:34,320
And he has also a different type
of scale. 

1786
01:54:34,920 --> 01:54:37,360
Yeah, and thinner as well. 
He he's a thinner. 

1787
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:40,840
Dragon it's it's not as bulky as
the dark of 1 for sure. 

1788
01:54:41,120 --> 01:54:45,240
Yeah, yeah, OK, yeah. 
And I know some of the the big 

1789
01:54:45,240 --> 01:54:46,720
Dragons. 
They might need a bit of 

1790
01:54:46,760 --> 01:54:49,520
propping up. 
They might actually sag under 

1791
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:52,400
their own weight at some point. 
I don't know if it's the yeah, 

1792
01:54:52,400 --> 01:54:53,760
that's the metal. 
That's the early days. 

1793
01:54:55,600 --> 01:54:57,160
There was a change. 
In the metal. 

1794
01:54:57,360 --> 01:55:01,320
So. 
It's between I think end of the 

1795
01:55:01,320 --> 01:55:03,880
4th edition. 
Beginning of. 

1796
01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:08,040
The 5th edition and you can see 
that nicely also on the studio 

1797
01:55:08,040 --> 01:55:13,800
miniature of Rakat because when 
you take a look at the pictures 

1798
01:55:13,800 --> 01:55:19,520
in by 12209 that we released the
the good one of blood, you see 

1799
01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:26,000
that they put a big stone under 
the the record miniature to 

1800
01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:29,800
stabilize him because he's he 
was bended and. 

1801
01:55:30,160 --> 01:55:34,680
You can also see him in. 
His bended downward position on 

1802
01:55:34,680 --> 01:55:39,880
the bigger Army shots, which we 
did in advance of the 5th 

1803
01:55:39,880 --> 01:55:45,120
edition applications. 
So let's get. 

1804
01:55:45,120 --> 01:55:50,480
Better. 
In if with with the later white 

1805
01:55:50,480 --> 01:55:54,160
metal, yeah, yeah, I recently 
had to do that with. 

1806
01:55:54,240 --> 01:55:59,000
Baldos, my chaos dragon, he was 
touching ground after a while so

1807
01:55:59,000 --> 01:56:01,360
I had to. 
I had the same. 

1808
01:56:01,560 --> 01:56:06,240
I had the same problem. 
With mine, so it's will be very 

1809
01:56:06,240 --> 01:56:09,360
hard to fix that. 
Yeah, yeah, I put him up against

1810
01:56:09,360 --> 01:56:13,000
the Stonewall and. 
Pinned him too, so seems to work

1811
01:56:13,000 --> 01:56:16,080
alright. 
Yeah, OK. 

1812
01:56:16,200 --> 01:56:26,200
So Raquel, nice model. 
Very very very also very iconic 

1813
01:56:26,200 --> 01:56:26,840
1. 
With. 

1814
01:56:26,840 --> 01:56:34,160
Without a model, but very nice 
that yeah, you you, you get that

1815
01:56:34,280 --> 01:56:39,000
character on a multicore. 
So it's also to to have that 

1816
01:56:39,000 --> 01:56:43,200
aspect which the multicore also 
get its, its position in later 

1817
01:56:44,400 --> 01:56:47,480
editions of the Warhammer Dark 
Elves. 

1818
01:56:47,480 --> 01:56:52,200
So it's, it becomes it's own 
iconic piece of, of, of dark 

1819
01:56:52,200 --> 01:56:55,600
elf. 
But yeah, it's. 

1820
01:56:56,400 --> 01:56:58,200
Was. 
Introduced with Hellebron and 

1821
01:56:58,240 --> 01:57:05,000
it's having I think she has 
general stats and also all the 

1822
01:57:05,000 --> 01:57:10,120
which have characteristics which
is very tough and also with a 

1823
01:57:10,120 --> 01:57:11,480
black. 
With a black. 

1824
01:57:11,480 --> 01:57:18,600
Sword, she's she's whiling. 
That's also, yeah, very, very 

1825
01:57:18,600 --> 01:57:19,680
cheesy. 
Yeah. 

1826
01:57:21,320 --> 01:57:22,320
I never. 
Used her but. 

1827
01:57:22,760 --> 01:57:24,800
She looks pretty naughty, as you
say. 

1828
01:57:26,720 --> 01:57:32,560
OK, so what's more in the list? 
Marathi. 

1829
01:57:33,640 --> 01:57:34,920
Yeah. 
Helbron. 

1830
01:57:35,280 --> 01:57:37,080
Helbron's one on the. 
Mantico, then Marathi. 

1831
01:57:37,080 --> 01:57:41,480
Was Dark Pegasus, whether the 
whether the the miniature origin

1832
01:57:41,480 --> 01:57:44,280
was space to be Marathi the the 
one they released or not, I 

1833
01:57:44,280 --> 01:57:48,640
don't know Certainly there is a 
sore stress on a dark Pegasus. 

1834
01:57:48,640 --> 01:57:52,200
I guess you I think she's 
related to it, but it's. 

1835
01:57:54,360 --> 01:57:58,880
Yeah, but it may be also 
intended to to play her as 

1836
01:57:58,880 --> 01:58:05,680
Marathi, but she was become more
a generic character from from 

1837
01:58:05,720 --> 01:58:11,960
the the box title stats, the the
dark saucer is writing Dark Pigo

1838
01:58:11,960 --> 01:58:15,360
Zeus, and then there's the 
maybe. 

1839
01:58:16,120 --> 01:58:19,120
Not more. 
Of the foot version, was that 

1840
01:58:19,120 --> 01:58:21,440
one 6th edition? 
Yeah, but that, that that was 

1841
01:58:21,440 --> 01:58:23,120
later. 
That was in 5th edition. 

1842
01:58:23,640 --> 01:58:27,840
It was the the the application 
piece of Chris's Patrick. 

1843
01:58:28,440 --> 01:58:32,200
So it's when when he was hired 
as a sculptor in his test phase.

1844
01:58:33,080 --> 01:58:37,760
And that's, that's a very nice 
story about it. 

1845
01:58:37,760 --> 01:58:42,360
He shared on his Instagram. 
But it it was summer and it was 

1846
01:58:42,360 --> 01:58:46,080
very, very hot, which makes it 
very difficult to work with the 

1847
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:50,520
green staff. 
And that's that's why he goes 

1848
01:58:50,520 --> 01:58:54,400
into the conference rooms, which
were cooled down for sculpting 

1849
01:58:54,560 --> 01:58:57,000
and where he's he. 
Sculpted. 

1850
01:58:57,040 --> 01:59:02,120
Moravi very close to the iconic 
artwork of Yeah yeah, 

1851
01:59:02,120 --> 01:59:04,720
definitely. 
It's almost spitting image. 

1852
01:59:05,400 --> 01:59:08,440
Yeah. 
And yeah, that's. 

1853
01:59:08,800 --> 01:59:13,840
That's also also just this 
sculpt is of so much quality. 

1854
01:59:13,840 --> 01:59:20,080
You really see that that effort 
and and and pain and maybe all 

1855
01:59:20,080 --> 01:59:25,120
his hopes he he's into it. 
That makes this miniature that 

1856
01:59:25,120 --> 01:59:26,320
special. 
Yeah. 

1857
01:59:26,360 --> 01:59:28,000
Yeah. 
I'm a little bit intimidated 

1858
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:29,360
starting painting that. 
One I have it. 

1859
01:59:29,360 --> 01:59:33,760
But I should get at get on it. 
I have so. 

1860
01:59:33,760 --> 01:59:40,120
Far I have painted 4 versions of
her. 

1861
01:59:41,160 --> 01:59:43,560
And. 
I think one further will follow 

1862
01:59:43,560 --> 01:59:48,520
error, but it's it's one I sold 
with this first army a second 

1863
01:59:48,520 --> 01:59:54,520
one. 
I I I traded it was part of a 

1864
01:59:54,520 --> 02:00:02,240
deal for getting that unrealist 
Sorceress 1 one I converted for 

1865
02:00:04,000 --> 02:00:09,280
for Golden demon project got me 
a silver trophy in Wyma single 

1866
02:00:09,280 --> 02:00:20,080
2005 and there must be Yeah and.
One I painted mostly black and 

1867
02:00:20,080 --> 02:00:23,240
white for my 1st 6th edition 
army. 

1868
02:00:23,800 --> 02:00:26,320
OK, cool. 
So it's I'm. 

1869
02:00:26,840 --> 02:00:29,360
Really. 
Attached to this miniature, it's

1870
02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:31,920
made made me a big Chris 
Fitzpatrick fan. 

1871
02:00:32,320 --> 02:00:35,120
Yeah, but you have one more 
lined up then for the. 

1872
02:00:35,440 --> 02:00:37,920
I I I definitely. 
I want to, yeah. 

1873
02:00:37,920 --> 02:00:40,480
I I. 
I still have pictures of all of 

1874
02:00:40,480 --> 02:00:46,400
them and it's when I painted the
fifth one for for my actual 

1875
02:00:46,400 --> 02:00:49,080
army, it's it's I think it's 
time for lining them up. 

1876
02:00:49,560 --> 02:00:51,920
Yep, that's looking forward to 
it. 

1877
02:00:54,400 --> 02:00:55,040
Right. 
Will you? 

1878
02:00:55,040 --> 02:00:59,840
Include one in your army. 
Date I. 

1879
02:00:59,840 --> 02:01:03,360
Don't. 
Know it's not it's not really 

1880
02:01:03,360 --> 02:01:07,320
going to be the look of the one 
that of the army. 

1881
02:01:07,320 --> 02:01:08,400
I do. 
I'm probably going to be more 

1882
02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:13,680
likely to do the classic dark 
elf sorcerer holding the orb 

1883
02:01:14,360 --> 02:01:17,680
with a big cloak on to him. 
So the old, old one. 

1884
02:01:17,680 --> 02:01:19,840
And also there's a I've got one 
up here. 

1885
02:01:19,840 --> 02:01:24,280
I've got a few of this model. 
You probably can't see that very

1886
02:01:24,280 --> 02:01:24,840
well. 
Oh yeah, yeah, I know. 

1887
02:01:25,320 --> 02:01:27,360
Which one that? 
Might as well he'll he'll be 

1888
02:01:27,360 --> 02:01:30,920
alone, yeah. 
Absolutely. 

1889
02:01:30,920 --> 02:01:34,760
He, well, he's the image of. 
Dark health sorcerer in the ally

1890
02:01:34,760 --> 02:01:36,360
list in the 3rd edition army 
book. 

1891
02:01:37,080 --> 02:01:40,080
He was, he was the model they 
used for that drawing. 

1892
02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:42,520
So yeah, they'll they'll be the 
ones I do. 

1893
02:01:43,520 --> 02:01:49,480
I do have the plastic dark 
health sorceress from Talisman. 

1894
02:01:50,120 --> 02:01:52,480
Was she, was she Intellisman? 
Oh yeah. 

1895
02:01:52,800 --> 02:01:54,800
Yeah. 
Also. 

1896
02:01:54,840 --> 02:01:57,400
The Dracon's Tower expansion. 
Yeah, so I've. 

1897
02:01:57,400 --> 02:01:59,480
Got that one as well. 
I may do, but again. 

1898
02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:03,720
Doesn't really fit the the look 
of the stuff I'm going for. 

1899
02:02:03,720 --> 02:02:05,920
But you know, just to get them. 
Painted up though, because it is

1900
02:02:05,920 --> 02:02:10,640
a nice model, then maybe I'll do
that just as a kind of stand 

1901
02:02:10,640 --> 02:02:13,600
alone piece. 
And you never know, I might 

1902
02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:15,640
eventually decide I want to. 
Collect the 4th edition. 

1903
02:02:15,640 --> 02:02:17,840
Dark Elf army as well. 
I've got a lot to do before 

1904
02:02:17,840 --> 02:02:22,640
then. 
I've got a, you know, my, my 

1905
02:02:22,640 --> 02:02:26,400
schedule for Warhammer I'll be 
painting is probably a bit too 

1906
02:02:26,400 --> 02:02:30,840
full to get on to that gesture. 
I need to do my my yeah, third 

1907
02:02:31,600 --> 02:02:36,120
edition, dark old farmy first. 
Maybe I'll do 4th as a complete 

1908
02:02:36,120 --> 02:02:38,520
collector. 
Well, not complete entirely, but

1909
02:02:38,520 --> 02:02:41,040
you know, as as from a 
collection point of view. 

1910
02:02:41,040 --> 02:02:44,600
But normally gaming wise, I'd go
with the with the 3rd edition, 

1911
02:02:44,720 --> 02:02:47,560
an earlier one, because that's 
just the the aesthetic I prefer.

1912
02:02:48,200 --> 02:02:51,240
Cool. 
And then we have What's the? 

1913
02:02:51,240 --> 02:02:52,880
Name Quran. 
Quran. 

1914
02:02:54,760 --> 02:02:58,240
Quran. 
Yeah, sort of a hero special. 

1915
02:02:58,320 --> 02:02:59,880
Character. 
Type, I think. 

1916
02:03:00,680 --> 02:03:06,480
Yeah, it's also a bit. 
Bit which came a bit from the 

1917
02:03:06,480 --> 02:03:08,080
elite tube type. 
So you have. 

1918
02:03:08,760 --> 02:03:11,920
The current for the Black Guard,
you have two lorries. 

1919
02:03:12,080 --> 02:03:18,200
For the Executioners, you have 
the special assassin Shadow 

1920
02:03:18,200 --> 02:03:21,640
Blade. 
Yeah, I think that's also. 

1921
02:03:21,920 --> 02:03:24,680
Something that. 
Differs from the earlier ones 

1922
02:03:24,680 --> 02:03:29,880
where they didn't really sort of
create these special characters 

1923
02:03:29,880 --> 02:03:32,680
specifically for units. 
Maybe they didn't some cases, 

1924
02:03:32,680 --> 02:03:35,760
but for Scaven's a good example 
of them doing that, isn't it? 

1925
02:03:36,840 --> 02:03:38,920
Yeah, yeah, because you want for
each clan. 

1926
02:03:38,920 --> 02:03:40,360
Type so it's. 
Kind of. 

1927
02:03:40,720 --> 02:03:43,360
But for Empire for example, you 
don't really have that. 

1928
02:03:43,960 --> 02:03:47,600
In that sense, I think so. 
Yeah, that's pretty good. 

1929
02:03:48,360 --> 02:03:50,200
The the other interesting thing 
about the. 

1930
02:03:51,080 --> 02:03:54,640
Dark Hill farming actually is. 
A lot of the magic items they 

1931
02:03:54,640 --> 02:03:58,760
give out are just bog standard 
ones from Battle Magic. 

1932
02:03:59,840 --> 02:04:01,920
Yeah, they're one. 
They're not, you know. 

1933
02:04:02,120 --> 02:04:03,920
In the other army. 
Books, you know, when you've 

1934
02:04:03,920 --> 02:04:07,880
seen magic eyes being given, 
they are unique to that 

1935
02:04:07,880 --> 02:04:09,440
character. 
Yeah. 

1936
02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:11,920
Yeah, there's a few of those 
with the dark. 

1937
02:04:11,920 --> 02:04:14,240
Elf characters, but mostly. 
You know you're looking at 

1938
02:04:14,800 --> 02:04:19,920
Armour Fortune Enchanted Shield 
Army Charakayan they've 

1939
02:04:19,920 --> 02:04:24,120
installed. 
Ogg standard magic items that 

1940
02:04:24,120 --> 02:04:27,120
anyone can take. 
There's very few that, I mean, 

1941
02:04:27,120 --> 02:04:32,600
obviously you've got executions,
acts, you've got Melkif's items.

1942
02:04:32,640 --> 02:04:35,200
There's one or two here or there
that are unique, but generally 

1943
02:04:35,200 --> 02:04:38,360
speaking, they're just magic 
items throughout the magic from 

1944
02:04:38,360 --> 02:04:40,200
the well. 
I'm a Battle Magic box set. 

1945
02:04:40,200 --> 02:04:41,560
I'll just find that interesting.
Sorry. 

1946
02:04:42,240 --> 02:04:43,920
Chuck that in there. 
Yeah. 

1947
02:04:46,320 --> 02:04:46,880
No. 
That's true. 

1948
02:04:46,880 --> 02:04:49,320
Solid. 
So I guess neither of those 

1949
02:04:49,320 --> 02:04:51,680
actually had any models 
released, did they? 

1950
02:04:51,760 --> 02:04:55,600
Corano Tolaris? 
No, but I've seen you're 

1951
02:04:55,840 --> 02:04:58,840
Tolaris, George, Right. 
You made one. 

1952
02:04:59,520 --> 02:05:05,360
Yeah, that's which I sculpted. 
It it was the first miniature I 

1953
02:05:05,680 --> 02:05:08,520
really sculpted nearly 
completely of green staff. 

1954
02:05:09,600 --> 02:05:13,000
It was also. 
Yeah, it's I I used. 

1955
02:05:13,720 --> 02:05:19,080
I used the head of Harcourt 
heart rhythm to to yeah. 

1956
02:05:19,080 --> 02:05:20,880
Skip it part. 
Sculpting a face? 

1957
02:05:21,360 --> 02:05:22,280
Yeah. 
Nobody. 

1958
02:05:22,280 --> 02:05:24,040
I I really like that one. 
You should. 

1959
02:05:25,160 --> 02:05:29,520
You don't have it there? 
No, no, I it's, it was also sold

1960
02:05:29,520 --> 02:05:30,400
with that first. 
Hour. 

1961
02:05:30,640 --> 02:05:33,160
Wow, it's too bad. 
Yeah. 

1962
02:05:33,320 --> 02:05:37,320
That was a really nice. 
Personal sculpt, my word, but. 

1963
02:05:37,320 --> 02:05:40,960
It's it's it's. 
Especially these, these first 

1964
02:05:40,960 --> 02:05:46,920
things are sometimes very hardly
to look at after, yeah, but I 

1965
02:05:46,920 --> 02:05:49,120
think being a bit more 
different. 

1966
02:05:49,120 --> 02:05:50,560
Skills. 
It was very nice. 

1967
02:05:51,200 --> 02:05:57,080
I I also sculpted. 
That that that which else from 

1968
02:05:57,280 --> 02:06:01,760
Mark Eben's artwork. 
But I I sculpted very. 

1969
02:06:01,760 --> 02:06:07,120
Closely to. 
To artwork and and this one is 

1970
02:06:07,120 --> 02:06:12,960
really one I'm I'm I'm having 
here around and she was as as 

1971
02:06:12,960 --> 02:06:17,320
part of a collectors group it 
was intended to be released as a

1972
02:06:17,520 --> 02:06:21,680
as a group miniature but Kim's 
workshop interfered at that time

1973
02:06:22,440 --> 02:06:29,520
and I am yeah yeah looking at 
that Skype today it's not that 

1974
02:06:29,520 --> 02:06:35,480
brilliant especially compared to
things I did later but yeah it 

1975
02:06:35,480 --> 02:06:40,760
was it's what part of its time 
and it's and you painted one of 

1976
02:06:40,760 --> 02:06:46,600
the castings and it's also 
having still the the green hero 

1977
02:06:46,680 --> 02:06:52,480
but that's Tulare's one it's 
yeah it's in the ice yeah good 

1978
02:06:52,480 --> 02:06:54,760
hands yeah so we're going to 
make a. 

1979
02:06:54,760 --> 02:06:58,320
New one. 
Sure, it's I, I. 

1980
02:06:58,320 --> 02:07:02,600
Already I already. 
Started to to convert and sculpt

1981
02:07:02,600 --> 02:07:08,400
more so it's don't know if you 
have seen my my blackguard 

1982
02:07:08,400 --> 02:07:11,600
command. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1983
02:07:12,800 --> 02:07:13,840
Yeah. 
So it's. 

1984
02:07:15,680 --> 02:07:18,120
And I would definitely love. 
To. 

1985
02:07:18,880 --> 02:07:22,640
To sculpt the the character or 
convert them. 

1986
02:07:23,320 --> 02:07:30,040
So it's, yeah, it's meanwhile 
getting more and more into this 

1987
02:07:30,400 --> 02:07:36,960
Ellie Morrison sculpting sky. 
And I also talking with him 

1988
02:07:36,960 --> 02:07:39,200
frequently about the sculpting. 
So he's he's. 

1989
02:07:39,240 --> 02:07:44,480
Really a great teacher and 
pushing things into the right 

1990
02:07:44,480 --> 02:07:48,200
direction Yeah, it's a it's a 
lot of fun. 

1991
02:07:48,200 --> 02:07:55,640
So I definitely would love to 
give some of of of abandoned the

1992
02:07:55,640 --> 02:07:56,680
dark. 
Of. 

1993
02:07:57,360 --> 02:08:02,400
A miniature, yeah, and looking 
forward to. 

1994
02:08:02,560 --> 02:08:07,280
Also also to. 
Yeah, look into how, how, how, 

1995
02:08:07,440 --> 02:08:11,080
how it would have looked so 
especially with the restrictions

1996
02:08:11,080 --> 02:08:18,680
of of of sculpting head and the 
4th edition, OK. 

1997
02:08:18,760 --> 02:08:21,000
Looking forward to see that 
eventually. 

1998
02:08:22,520 --> 02:08:29,400
And then we have last one, it's 
Shatterblade and. 

1999
02:08:29,400 --> 02:08:33,360
He also didn't have. 
An initiative D not in fourth. 

2000
02:08:34,280 --> 02:08:35,480
No, it's it. 
Got it. 

2001
02:08:35,840 --> 02:08:39,240
Got one in 8th. 
Edition the the plastic version,

2002
02:08:40,480 --> 02:08:43,520
but I think it's. 
Yeah, there was. 

2003
02:08:43,600 --> 02:08:49,560
Never a miniature for it. 
It was very, very. 

2004
02:08:49,560 --> 02:08:54,200
Funny in in in 6th edition, we 
run a competition in the studio,

2005
02:08:55,120 --> 02:08:57,080
the Dark Elf character 
competition. 

2006
02:08:57,280 --> 02:09:03,600
And you have to. 
You were able to. 

2007
02:09:03,680 --> 02:09:06,280
To. 
Send you pictures of your 

2008
02:09:06,280 --> 02:09:10,920
converted Dark Elves and with a 
chance of winning a signed copy 

2009
02:09:10,920 --> 02:09:17,680
of your of the 6th edition army 
book and I. 

2010
02:09:17,680 --> 02:09:20,480
Had because. 
I had in in, in this, in this 

2011
02:09:20,480 --> 02:09:23,760
former army, I had all 
characters converted. 

2012
02:09:23,760 --> 02:09:26,360
I had one for Hellebron. 
I had one for Tularis and I also

2013
02:09:26,360 --> 02:09:33,560
had one for for Shadowblade and 
also for Curran and and it's and

2014
02:09:33,680 --> 02:09:38,560
I had really this very nice, 
very big model for Hellebron and

2015
02:09:39,040 --> 02:09:42,400
I thought, OK, if I had chances 
with winning something, I 

2016
02:09:44,040 --> 02:09:46,600
definitely with that on, but I 
won with Shadowblade. 

2017
02:09:47,080 --> 02:09:49,880
Oh, excellent. 
So you do have a signed copy of.

2018
02:09:49,880 --> 02:09:51,240
The on book then. 
I have. 

2019
02:09:51,280 --> 02:09:54,560
I have. 
Yeah, from, from, from. 6 

2020
02:09:54,560 --> 02:10:00,840
edition studio team around K4, 
but I have this and yeah, and I 

2021
02:10:01,240 --> 02:10:04,280
I still have the this is one of 
the mini issues. 

2022
02:10:04,280 --> 02:10:11,840
I didn't I didn't give away. 
It was a conversion of Brian 

2023
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:19,680
Nelson's Anwar the the sort of 
tie light and it's. 

2024
02:10:19,680 --> 02:10:23,040
It's very small conversion. 
I just changed the scale male 

2025
02:10:23,600 --> 02:10:29,320
against the chain male and 
sculpted him some some kind of 

2026
02:10:29,320 --> 02:10:35,640
scarf before face and very nice 
nice. 

2027
02:10:35,640 --> 02:10:39,840
Venetian conversion. 
For for Shadow Blade and yeah, 

2028
02:10:39,840 --> 02:10:44,280
it took a win. 
Excellent and. 

2029
02:10:44,280 --> 02:10:48,680
As you said, Dave, he also has 
the a couple of standard medic 

2030
02:10:48,680 --> 02:10:52,200
items that were there before 
moment potion of strength. 

2031
02:10:52,200 --> 02:10:57,280
So yeah, he has to die to get 
full effect from him. 

2032
02:10:59,160 --> 02:11:00,840
Yeah. 
He. 

2033
02:11:01,480 --> 02:11:03,880
I say to make that big a hole. 
He's only got 2 wounds. 

2034
02:11:03,880 --> 02:11:07,320
He's not like a character with 
a, you know, huge, huge wound 

2035
02:11:07,320 --> 02:11:10,800
stat and and you can't do with 
him. 

2036
02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:16,120
But funny enough, I I was just 
looking at not, I said not. 

2037
02:11:16,120 --> 02:11:17,080
Really. 
About this guy. 

2038
02:11:17,560 --> 02:11:21,080
But that you could do pull a 
nasty one with the Heart of Woe 

2039
02:11:21,080 --> 02:11:25,040
in that there's a there's a 
magic item in Chronicles of War 

2040
02:11:25,040 --> 02:11:28,960
called Lifestone of Ashrae. 
Switch wounds statistics. 

2041
02:11:29,440 --> 02:11:31,560
So if you were to, if you were 
to switch wounds. 

2042
02:11:31,560 --> 02:11:35,040
With some nasty, big nasty. 
Then it's got lots and lots of 

2043
02:11:35,040 --> 02:11:37,120
wounds you can make slamming 
trees or something. 

2044
02:11:37,240 --> 02:11:40,240
Yeah, yeah, Atomic. 
Form but you actually have to 

2045
02:11:40,240 --> 02:11:44,520
die as well so that's the you do
yeah absolutely, but that's why 

2046
02:11:44,520 --> 02:11:47,240
maybe you know your. 
Two magic items are Lifestyle of

2047
02:11:47,240 --> 02:11:49,160
Ashraaz and Heart of Woe, 
nothing else. 

2048
02:11:49,360 --> 02:11:53,640
So you intend on dying? 
Yeah, so did the. 

2049
02:11:54,680 --> 02:11:57,800
The heart of over. 
The portion of strength, or is 

2050
02:11:57,800 --> 02:12:02,160
it the basic strength statistics
for the strength of the horror 

2051
02:12:02,160 --> 02:12:02,800
bow? 
Do you? 

2052
02:12:02,800 --> 02:12:05,080
Oh wow, now. 
Oh gosh. 

2053
02:12:06,560 --> 02:12:08,680
There are ways then heart will 
just place thousands. 

2054
02:12:08,760 --> 02:12:10,480
Of all models. 
With the radius even to the 

2055
02:12:10,480 --> 02:12:14,720
bearer's original number of 
wounds, sustain one attack hit 

2056
02:12:14,720 --> 02:12:19,200
with a strength equal to the 
bearer's strength plus D6. 

2057
02:12:19,400 --> 02:12:22,280
OK, but it doesn't say original 
strength. 

2058
02:12:22,280 --> 02:12:26,480
Then so you could no true, so 
you could be very unscrupulous. 

2059
02:12:26,480 --> 02:12:28,560
Take your potion of strength and
add D6. 

2060
02:12:30,000 --> 02:12:32,960
Yeah, that that that would be 
very nasty. 

2061
02:12:33,280 --> 02:12:36,400
So seven, Yeah, you're looking 
at strength. 

2062
02:12:36,400 --> 02:12:38,040
I think that would. 
Possibly would cap. 

2063
02:12:38,040 --> 02:12:43,680
At strength 10, but although 
strength. 4, so yeah, 4 + 3. 

2064
02:12:43,680 --> 02:12:47,440
Seven, yeah. 
So D6, yeah, more than 50% 

2065
02:12:47,440 --> 02:12:50,520
chance of reaching 10 at least. 
Yeah, so. 

2066
02:12:50,640 --> 02:12:52,760
So there are ways you could make
it nastier. 

2067
02:12:52,840 --> 02:12:56,040
Yes, yes, probably not going to 
get you much friends, but. 

2068
02:12:56,640 --> 02:13:01,720
Could be done right so we. 
Don't have too much. 

2069
02:13:01,720 --> 02:13:05,760
Time left, so yes, quickly, 
what's your favorite special 

2070
02:13:05,760 --> 02:13:09,560
character for Dark Elves? 
George, if you begin, Yeah. 

2071
02:13:09,560 --> 02:13:10,800
Hello, Bron. 
Hello, Bron. 

2072
02:13:10,800 --> 02:13:13,160
It's yeah. 
It's I. 

2073
02:13:13,880 --> 02:13:16,600
I make. 
I made her one of my big 

2074
02:13:16,800 --> 02:13:22,480
projects in in 6th edition and 
re sculpted completely the the 

2075
02:13:23,000 --> 02:13:27,120
the Montecore. 
Yes, sculpting in armored 

2076
02:13:27,120 --> 02:13:33,320
Montecore, jumping from a Cliff 
and she's upon. 

2077
02:13:33,320 --> 02:13:36,000
So it's one of my most iconic 
miniatures. 

2078
02:13:36,000 --> 02:13:41,160
I've wondered in I'm a monsters.
So it's definitely hella broad. 

2079
02:13:41,520 --> 02:13:44,040
Yeah, cool. 
And yeah, I have seen pictures 

2080
02:13:44,120 --> 02:13:48,040
of that. 1 is really awesome, so
if you haven't listened us, 

2081
02:13:48,040 --> 02:13:51,680
check it out. 
Dave, which is your special dark

2082
02:13:51,680 --> 02:13:54,240
elf. 
Oh wow, Yeah, he's got to be 

2083
02:13:55,000 --> 02:13:56,960
Malekith. 
He's, you know. 

2084
02:13:57,640 --> 02:14:01,200
He's iconic. 
He's, you know, described a lot 

2085
02:14:01,200 --> 02:14:05,560
in the high off book. 
And of course there's the battle

2086
02:14:05,560 --> 02:14:09,400
for Neville playing against and 
techies, you know, his 

2087
02:14:09,400 --> 02:14:13,560
involvement in that. 
So yeah, for me he's he's just 

2088
02:14:14,480 --> 02:14:18,680
iconically Dark elf. 
And of course, mythology. 

2089
02:14:18,680 --> 02:14:19,800
Forget. 
Warhammer, you know. 

2090
02:14:19,840 --> 02:14:24,960
Mythology, the character of 
Melcheth is Nordic mythology, 

2091
02:14:24,960 --> 02:14:26,720
being a dark elf, so that's 
obviously where they nicked the 

2092
02:14:26,720 --> 02:14:30,080
name from and the fact he's a 
dark elf. 

2093
02:14:30,080 --> 02:14:33,680
So yeah, for me, Melcheth, 
there's there's no, no contender

2094
02:14:33,680 --> 02:14:37,640
there for me other than him. 
Use my tears. 

2095
02:14:38,320 --> 02:14:41,280
Kind of like Shadowblade also I 
think. 

2096
02:14:42,440 --> 02:14:44,040
He was also featuring some of 
the. 

2097
02:14:44,880 --> 02:14:48,040
Higher. 
Stories I remember those duck 

2098
02:14:48,040 --> 02:14:52,040
and he seemed like a really 
nasty chap to face. 

2099
02:14:52,280 --> 02:14:56,640
So I was had a little bit of 
things for Shadowblade right. 

2100
02:14:56,640 --> 02:14:58,720
So we're actually running out of
time. 

2101
02:14:58,720 --> 02:15:06,160
We done 2 1/2 hours. 
So solid, solid episode. 

2102
02:15:06,160 --> 02:15:12,760
And thank you so much George. 
Excellent insight that we would 

2103
02:15:12,760 --> 02:15:17,000
not have been able to to give 
our listeners without you, no. 

2104
02:15:17,400 --> 02:15:19,560
Absolutely, I glad. 
You enjoyed it? 

2105
02:15:19,560 --> 02:15:20,760
Oh yeah. 
Absolutely. 

2106
02:15:20,760 --> 02:15:21,560
And you're. 
Most. 

2107
02:15:21,560 --> 02:15:26,160
Welcome to join us for some of 
the other ones if you want and 

2108
02:15:26,400 --> 02:15:28,400
we need to find your wooded 
counterpart. 

2109
02:15:33,080 --> 02:15:35,440
I don't know if we're going to 
find one I might have to drag my

2110
02:15:35,440 --> 02:15:37,280
brother into. 
It although he's more 3rd 

2111
02:15:37,280 --> 02:15:40,880
edition anyone else but yeah 
well, I'll I'll put the call out

2112
02:15:40,880 --> 02:15:46,800
and see if anyone anyone's wood 
elven expert in the yeah yeah I.

2113
02:15:46,800 --> 02:15:47,960
Think it's going to be hard for 
us? 

2114
02:15:47,960 --> 02:15:50,680
To find one on on this. 
Level, but it would be nice. 

2115
02:15:50,760 --> 02:15:55,360
And of course, if you haven't 
watched or checked out George's 

2116
02:15:56,400 --> 02:16:00,080
painting, you definitely should.
I think we should add some links

2117
02:16:00,920 --> 02:16:04,200
in the episode. 
So amazing stuff, right? 

2118
02:16:04,480 --> 02:16:04,840
So that.