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Hello, everybody. 
Thanks again for coming in and 

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tuning into the crank arm and 
podcast. 

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I'm Josh. 
And I'm joined here with 

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carnufex. 
How you going mate? 

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Yeah, pretty good. 
We're back with a pretty big 

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issues big episode today because
our friends on our Discord 

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group, that's, David are from 
Italy. 

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And Chris, from the United 
States have managed to get 

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Thomas, pirinen, on the show to 
talk about Morton Haim. 

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Its development and games 
development. 

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Generally is time of the studio 
and what kind of projects is 

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working on. 
Now currently as he is a 

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full-time game designer. 
So you've got that to look 

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forward to today. 
So we're excited to get that on.

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And thanks very much to Thomas 
for taking his time to come to 

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the crown of command and talk 
all about it. 

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What's that time before we get 
there? 

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Mate, so kind of fix tell us all
to spill the beans on what's 

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been happening at on our Discord
might look recently. 

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Yeah, lots of content as usual. 
I'll touch on a few things but 

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yeah, it's getting out of hand 
now. 

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So I can't review everything or 
we'd be here for another hour. 

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So just to kick that off 2nd Ed 
or as we snow a mini. 

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So dead made a very cool 
diorama. 

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It's an epic Space Marine scale 
and its got like a Reaver Titan 

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and some ultramarines or on the 
Move. 

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It basically looks exactly like 
cover art you'd see on one of 

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the boxes or one of the 
paintings in white dwarf of 

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Epic. 
It's real inspiration. 

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Beautiful stuff, fantastic. 
And in that sort of same line of

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scale, voice turian. 
He painted some beautiful Orcs 

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speed. 
Is just I don't know how you 

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guys get the detail. 
It's really crazy. 

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And Joe Guardsman was making 
like some roads for epic and I 

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think making terrain at that 
scale has its own challenges but

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it looks really really good and 
rustam and post up like a huge 

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Tower and the Imperial Guard 
Army that he's got and it's 

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fantastically painted. 
And again I just don't know how 

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you guys do the details. 
It's amazing. 

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Shirred posted up his finished 
lizard, man army. 

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So he finished off a salamander 
and it's been like a work, an 

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army that he's been doing a over
a long period of time. 

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So I guess he would feel pretty 
chuffed to sort of say, yes, 

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it's finished. 
There were comments that, you 

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know, an Army's never finished. 
But at some point you got to 

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say, like, jeez enough is enough
a that's a lie, isn't it? 

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He's also been doing a lot of 
Connie's, tyranids so Squad of 

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turreted Warriors tourney, 
gargoyles. 

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They look really good. 
I like all the bright colors, 

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like pinks and greens and stuff 
like that. 

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Really stood out back in second 
addition to your needs and David

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as well has started painting up 
some gargoyle. 

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So, I look forward to seeing 
like a completed Squad and a 

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shout-out to satyam in itches. 
That's Drew. 

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He, he's basically released 
sculpts of the seven, Female 

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like chaos Space Marines. 
Marauders Warriors that he calls

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exene Warriors and they look 
right at home in a rogue Trader 

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or seconded Army. 
The really good noise Marine 

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additions or proxies. 
I'm going to use one as an 

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aspiring Champion for my noise 
Marine. 

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So I've popped link for those in
the 2nd Ed part of the Discord, 

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check it out. 
I think they look excellent now 

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that I've got one in my hands 
detail and it's fantastic. 

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And Nick remonda has had a bit 
of love lately which is great 

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Mr. D, showed off a really cool,
Judge Dredd sculpted on like an 

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Adept just bites or our bodies. 
However the hell you want to say

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it, we say our by it smart. 
So basically he's I think it's 

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like a judge or someone like 
that and that he's converted up 

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and looks pretty much the same 
as something, you'd see in mega 

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City. 
One, perfect, Judge, Dredd 

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colors, really. 
Rad just yeah, exactly. 

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What It would Inspire to do if I
had skill like that. 

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I don't Dingle sun'. 
Showed off your sweet rat skins 

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Army, it's really really cool, 
love them. 

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They had a lot of fluff back 
then and I don't know how to say

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this guy's username. 
It's probably an acronym but 

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it's wof c d. 
So I don't know what city. 

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I don't know will show you. 
He's basically showed us some 

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battle Peaks from like Advance 
our versus du Lac match. 

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Really fun to see nostalgic 
that. 

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Regional neck, remember, terrain
per perfect. 

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And in the war Master section 
sage-grouse, he's basically had 

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some battle shots where he took 
his wood elves for a spin, 

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really cool to see, don't don't 
often see enough warm us to 

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stuff, but the war Master 
Community is still quite large 

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and quite active because you can
pretty much grab the rules for 

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free and get models printed from
like online stl's and stuff 

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these days. 
So you're not you know, getting 

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charged a fortune on Which 
sucks. 

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But yeah, it's cool to see War 
Master out there Dingle soon. 

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Showed off like you small night 
goblins forced really, really 

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cute because it's got these tiny
little squeaks as well they're 

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fantastic. 
Jay Phoenix has finished off for

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a punster lioness. 
I don't know if I'm saying that 

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correctly but it's basically 
warhammers ripoff of Joan of Arc

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and it's a fantastic model. 
The painting is just staggering.

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Don't know how you do it but 
it's fantastic. 

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Keep up the good job. 
Sue, no painted up this ancient 

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but yag miniature. 
I think that's how you say 

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basically. 
It's just disgusting monster 

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from Dungeons and Dragons that 
you'd find in sewers and stuff. 

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It's a really goofy model. 
He's done a really good job of 

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bringing it to life and it's 
like he's got this grin on his 

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face. 
That makes him just. 

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Well would you say? 
It's a shit-eating grin I guess 

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so but he just looks chuffed to 
be alive. 

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You know, bringing life to these
models is fantastic. 

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Especially these old ones really
cool. 

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Helped more glum. 
He's been painting server, Jour,

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boys. 
And he's been doing these custom

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animal skin Shields. 
They look so good. 

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Just like textbook, every metal 
stuff, man. 

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So great whiskey and wizards 
finished off dark Reapers and 

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add our Curry / x heart. 
They look pretty much straight 

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out of the Codex, fantastic and 
voice strand. 

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He has done an amazing War track
from seconded, I It's basically,

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like, a rogue Trader holdover 
model. 

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It's the metal one. 
It looks perfect. 

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So good. 
Now, just to finish off 

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Highlands painting. 
He's painted up. 

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An amazing freebooter knob. 
I'm pretty sure it's the 

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original. 
What would have been bad luck? 

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Bad Rock was basically created. 
Probably in Rogue Trader. 

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White dwarf era from like, you 
know, custom roles and rules and

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stuff and became a big character
later on. 

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It's a perfect. 
Victor model. 

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It's like got a little hair 
Squig and things like that and 

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Highland paintings doing an 
amazing job painting. 

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It just perfect skills. 
Everyone's got some amazing 

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skills to show off, and usually,
you can find some great examples

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of this in the Evie lead 
painting section. 

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It's a little Channel under the 
hobby part, so, yeah, that's my 

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round up. 
Keep up the good work guys. 

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Fantastic to see really, really 
Be proud of everyone. 

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Awesome. 
Awesome year. 

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Yeah. 
So shout out to Ed with his 

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diorama, that is pretty bloody 
spectacular being his first 

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diorama ever. 
So Ed congrats made on that. 

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That's really amazing that. 
So it does really reflect the 

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original artwork from the second
edition epic box set. 

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So he did message me to say, 
hey, Josh, I think you might be 

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interested in this and I sure 
was, it was really, really 

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stunning to see that come 
together. 

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And yeah, hyelin hyelin painting
that Some walk freebooter. 

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You really doing a Justin just 
it's made it looks really 

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stunning so yeah, it's good to 
see some, you know, a lot of 

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happy activity out there on the 
Discord on Facebook, Facebook, 

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as well in our Facebook 
community. 

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And yeah, guys, like kind of 
fixes keep up the good work and 

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keep pumping out those photos so
it keeps inspiring other people 

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to do something similar. 
So just in closing guys enjoy 

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the interview. 
Today we have with Thomas 

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pirinen and I hope it will. 
Inspire you to get out, your 

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Morton, Haim Miniatures and 
terrain again and start playing 

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that in your local clubs or with
friends that you know and just 

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wanted to say also please check 
out the YouTube channel for the 

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crown of command. 
I've just uploaded a tutorial on

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making the 40K. 
Cacti all the cactus plants you 

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see in Second Edition reports 
and white dwarf articles and 

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that kind of thing. 
I've just uploaded that over the

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weekend and it's seems to have 
pretty good response so far. 

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So people seem to be enjoying 
that and now I'm sort of working

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on a advanced he requests series
of videos where I take for. 

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I don't know willing or 
unwilling adventurers into the 

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depths of some skaven layer and 
let's see how they fare down 

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there. 
So it's one of my classic board 

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games of all time and it's in 
it's a solo play a game like all

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those games of that era were 
that you say, Have like 3D role 

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play solo rules and that kind of
thing. 

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So I look really look forward to
doing those. 

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I'm starting those today and if 
you would like to support the 

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podcast and the YouTube channel,
please check out the links to my

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patreon and as that sort of a 
growing community and people are

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discussing things or voting on 
staff to paint or things, I want

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to see and making contributions 
there. 

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So please keep that in mind as 
well. 

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But guys, let's get on with the 
show kind of X. 

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Thanks mate for your time and 
And for keeping an eye on 

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everything that's Discord, and 
we'll catch you next week, mate,

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or next time. 
Yeah. 

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Thanks very much. 
And thanks again, everyone see 

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you around. 
Okay, might take a bye. 

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Bye. 
See ya. 

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But in the last year of the 
second Millennium 500 years 

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before the rule of the most 
benevolent Emperor Karl France 

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there fell a Time. 
Unlike any other just as they 

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had been before the birth of 
divine Sigma the Wings of Fire 

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in the Sky again, heralded the 
coming of great things. 

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The coming of plague, the coming
of war, the coming of pestilence

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and hunger, though, it's Unholy 
name is now stricken from the 

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records of The Great Library of 
alt off. 

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And it's ruins raised by Magnus,
the savior of the empire, I 

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would tell you the tale of the 
cursed City brought Low by The 

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Wrath of the Gods. 
I would tell you the tale of 

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more time. 
Okay guys, here we are. 

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00:12:05,900 --> 00:12:08,300
Welcome back to the crown of 
command podcast. 

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I'm Chris and we are discussing 
more time today. 

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I have a very special guest with
us besides David a we have a man

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who needs no introduction. 
This is the creator of mordheim 

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himself, please welcome, Thomas,
Peruvian. 

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Nice to be with you. 
It's the and the nice call-outs 

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to Crown of command is probably 
the most used magic item. 

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00:12:33,900 --> 00:12:36,100
I had indeed they will hammer it
stick. 

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Yeah, it was interesting. 
I talked about that with Rick 

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cause it was there on purpose 
really to go to magic item slots

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where so valuable. 
But yeah you could you could say

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Sort of a Unbreak, Your Goblin 
Army's leadership. 

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But the at the cost of the, the 
using one of your magic items, 

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lots of interesting discussion I
took it away in this tradition, 

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it was like, it was written to 
break the rules, he wrote? 

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Yeah. 
So supportive in self. 

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Okay. 
Now, let's back to something 

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more interesting like more 
growth. 

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00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,100
Yeah. 
So before we begin, I just Say 

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00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:32,600
Thomas, you have a reputation 
among the community for being 

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00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,900
very gracious with your time. 
Very accessible to answer 

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00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:40,000
questions and you're highly 
respected for that. 

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And I just wanted to say thank 
you. 

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A commutative thank you from the
entire Community. 

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Well, it's team, it's actually 
thanks to the community like I 

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make games. 
I've made games all my life, 

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00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:58,900
that's my job and I've met a lot
of Games and I have to say that 

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most game communities online are
so toxic and so filled with sort

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00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:10,300
of this unreasoning rage. 
It's the what, what Shakespeare 

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talked about this the full of 
Sound and Fury signifying 

226
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:17,000
nothing. 
And the more I'm Community 

227
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,800
online. 
Especially the Facebook one. 

228
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,600
Is so well. 
Curated manages the, the 

229
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,100
modified moderated and the 
People, are you go to the DT 

230
00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:30,100
motorhomes, Facebook group? 
Every day. 

231
00:14:30,300 --> 00:14:34,000
There are some awesome painting 
modeling, the other people 

232
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,600
helping each other new rules new
art. 

233
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:42,300
It's the kind of a infectious 
enthusiasm for the game. 

234
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:46,700
That's so many games 
communities, the totally luck. 

235
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,200
So really the result, why I am 
there? 

236
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,100
And I'm happy to answer 
questions and to communicate 

237
00:14:53,100 --> 00:14:58,900
with the communities that the 
community Is the best one online

238
00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:03,300
that I've seen? 
Yeah, probably because you know 

239
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:10,700
I think that this is because the
more time playing are the 

240
00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:14,700
typical more than player is not 
the ordinary. 

241
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:22,700
Let's say we're a mega like 
player, he is more versatile to 

242
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:28,100
be hobby parts, like Are less 
about the numbers, is it 

243
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:31,900
possible? 
Yeah I mean you look at modern 

244
00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:37,500
language was first of all. 
It's the the you expect to 

245
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:41,000
customize your troops a lot and 
it's encouraged throughout all 

246
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,100
the rules though. 
Written, you can't actually play

247
00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:46,500
it unless you're a bit more 
hardcore Hobbies, cause you 

248
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:50,000
can't just go and buy their 
scenery that you require. 

249
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,100
If you want to play a good game 
of mordheim, you need to build a

250
00:15:53,100 --> 00:15:56,800
lot of stuff yourself. 
So it's sort of say Self-selects

251
00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,000
people who are really invested 
in the Hobby. 

252
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:06,100
And I also think that the, the 
background the, the theme, the 

253
00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:12,000
atmosphere is I hate the word 
mature, but I would say in a 

254
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:17,200
kind of a setting that you need 
a certain amount of adult 

255
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,600
appreciation. 
Yeah. 

256
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,300
Whatever you're old or young. 
It's the day that again. 

257
00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:26,400
It's tends to self-select people
who have a maybe Eat more 

258
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,100
sophistication. 
That just swearing at he did 

259
00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:31,300
each other online. 
Yeah, definitely. 

260
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:34,000
That's alright. 
Maybe the same approach that 

261
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:39,100
some kind of role playing game 
has like the difference between,

262
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:42,000
let's say, I know you play a 
lot. 

263
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:46,000
I mean, you played obviously 
playing a lot of role-playing 

264
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:51,500
game but the probably the 
difference between the DND gamer

265
00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:55,600
between the player and the let's
say cool Hulu. 

266
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,000
Player. 
That's, that's a difference 

267
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,700
between the two in your way 
maybe? 

268
00:17:02,300 --> 00:17:03,700
Yeah. 
I mean there are plenty. 

269
00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:06,000
I mean d and e is huge. 
Yeah. 

270
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,000
And there are plenty of 
wonderful marvelous, D&D 

271
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,300
players, but there are also a 
lot of like the Casual people 

272
00:17:12,300 --> 00:17:15,000
who've come in, sort of take a 
peek, and nothing wrong with 

273
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,099
that. 
I mean, that's the way for a 

274
00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:19,700
little bit while be called too 
low. 

275
00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:23,900
It's the, you really need to be 
into your games, to get into it.

276
00:17:23,900 --> 00:17:28,200
And they you have to have a 
certain Amount of mental 

277
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:34,100
fortitude to play a horror game.
That's meant to be as disturbing

278
00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:38,200
as a game master can make it so 
yeah, I think there is similar 

279
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,200
parallels between the two. 
I mean, you look at just the the

280
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,000
mode, High mode. 
If you pick that book and go. 

281
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,500
Yep. 
This is a game for me. 

282
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:51,000
This is what I want to play. 
It's the you probably are not so

283
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,700
much into the, the most casual 
mainstream Thunder. 

284
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,300
Sit. 
Yes. 

285
00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:04,600
And no, I mean that this lead us
to the first question that the 

286
00:18:04,608 --> 00:18:08,700
Chris brought. 
Maybe you can introduce it, you 

287
00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:15,500
can get both ahead. 
Yeah, I'm I'm free just to have 

288
00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:21,700
an open conversation about this 
one thing that attracted me to 

289
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:29,100
more time likewise with blood 
bowl and neck Ramón de is that 

290
00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:32,800
it was more of a campaign game 
that you could. 

291
00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:36,400
You wouldn't just play a game 
and put it away but you would, 

292
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:41,500
you know, continue to build and 
develop as you went on and and 

293
00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:43,400
sometimes with unexpected 
results. 

294
00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:48,400
You know, you didn't just, you 
didn't have total control over 

295
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:54,200
what happens to your to your 
force, and I think that's 

296
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,100
something that probably will. 
Also, attract a certain kind of 

297
00:18:58,100 --> 00:19:03,900
gamer someone who really likes 
to have control really likes to 

298
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:08,200
Min and Max to list build. 
I don't know. 

299
00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:11,800
Do you think they might struggle
with the game like more time? 

300
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,200
Outside of tournament 
experience. 

301
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,600
Yes, I mean that's being a 
plenty and I do mean cost of 

302
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,400
game is well over 20 years old. 
Now that didn't plenty of 

303
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,300
mordheim competitive 
tournaments, which curiously. 

304
00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:29,500
It's the, the is not The Usual 
Suspects that tend to win it. 

305
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:34,800
But for the vast majority of the
games played, it's the 

306
00:19:34,900 --> 00:19:38,600
role-playing element is the role
of ran role of random that is 

307
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,100
very strong on more home and on 
purpose did They sort of all the

308
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:45,600
Death that comes from the 
critical tables from the 

309
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,300
exploration chart, call a lot of
items is the the see what 

310
00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:52,300
happens is that there is a lot 
of rolling in the Bold is the 

311
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,100
often you can win the battle but
you can badly lose the post 

312
00:19:56,100 --> 00:19:59,900
battle sequence and I think and 
it sort of takes you on a 

313
00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:02,800
journey. 
Like the the fun part of it is 

314
00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:05,900
is not so much to test, 
whatever. 

315
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:11,000
My force is optimally tuned and 
tweaked but where does this mad?

316
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,300
Right, take me. 
It's very much on purpose, on 

317
00:20:14,300 --> 00:20:17,800
the way that the mordheim is 
build, like the strong role of 

318
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,500
Randomness and the game sort of 
kind of being against you. 

319
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:25,300
It's very, very tough to become 
super powerful in mordheim, the 

320
00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:29,000
systems tend to be quite 
punishing and it's quite easy to

321
00:20:29,008 --> 00:20:33,200
apply like totally lose and your
wardrobe and to become 

322
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,600
unplayable, lie week, and that's
part one or part of it. 

323
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:41,100
It doesn't also mean that the, 
the, when you are successful, it

324
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:43,400
feels so much. 
More satisfying. 

325
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,500
Because if a game is set up that
the the you can see the on the 

326
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:51,000
average rolls, you know how the 
feel force is going to perform 

327
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,600
and how everything is going to 
happen. 

328
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,300
Then they winning or doing well 
or things going by. 

329
00:20:56,308 --> 00:20:59,800
The plan isn't very satisfying 
compared to mordheim. 

330
00:20:59,900 --> 00:21:03,800
Where you take this insane last 
chance that you have your trolls

331
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,700
layer on the sixth floor 
building. 

332
00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:09,500
And there is the last guy with 
the weird Stone piece getting 

333
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:12,600
out of the board and winning the
scenario and then you decide Do 

334
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,400
the diving charge and it's 
sometimes you are lucky enough 

335
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,600
that you roll the one on - and 
you just this stump the opponent

336
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,800
with a, with a, with a nurse 
one, diving for a dwarf, you 

337
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:28,200
know, and then you really, 
really remember that, you know 

338
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,500
what, promise these are made me 
the same approach that they 

339
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:34,900
tried to evoke with where my 
friends. 

340
00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:40,700
Roleplay, first edition, like 
the ordinary man, has 30 percent

341
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:43,500
of chance. 
To do anything. 

342
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,600
So it's like you mostly will 
fail but when you gonna do that 

343
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,800
is going to be super rewarding. 
So it's like it has the same 

344
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,500
Spirit somehow. 
For me, like everything is very 

345
00:21:56,500 --> 00:21:58,600
hard. 
So if you manage to do that, 

346
00:21:58,608 --> 00:22:03,500
we're going to enjoy it. 
Definitely mean. 

347
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:10,300
And I mean, yeah, yeah. 
I run a before I joined Games 

348
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:13,100
Workshop, I run a first edition 
warmer control, play Campaign 

349
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:16,600
here in Finland for years, and 
indeed, for example, iron or the

350
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,600
sort of Twilight is a player 
character from the warmer 

351
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,700
fantasy, roleplay campaign that 
I run. 

352
00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:27,400
So there is a strong roots 
between the two. 

353
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,500
It's the yes, it's the the and 
of course if you look at the 

354
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:36,000
team like I was really pretty 
much the last time when I had 

355
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,400
the same team that On the 170 
play first edition still working

356
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,000
with me on mordheim. 
So there is a lot of the, it's 

357
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,700
not a direct spiritual 
successor, since it's a table 

358
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:50,200
to, it's a miniature game, and 
not a role-playing game, but you

359
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,500
can see the, the influence of 
people, like, John Blanche and 

360
00:22:54,500 --> 00:22:59,100
rake and Jarvis it State. 
The we're working along with me 

361
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:03,400
in that cave. 
It's take the so I think that's 

362
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,300
an astute thing to notice. 
Yeah. 

363
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:14,100
And do you think that these can 
be again to introduce someone to

364
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,400
accept, ready gaming? 
I mean, from my experience that 

365
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,400
the best players, the one that 
were less, Max many players. 

366
00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:27,000
Who are the, let's say the 
virgin's. 

367
00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:30,100
Like the one that never touched 
a single Minion room and they 

368
00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:33,900
were focusing on the story. 
So they were not thinking about 

369
00:23:33,900 --> 00:23:38,800
the numbers. 
Which led my campaign. 

370
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,900
The campaign I brought the 
direction I was expecting to 

371
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:44,800
evacuate. 
It was hoping to because you 

372
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:52,000
know when you put such a system,
a very simple one in the ends of

373
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,000
Power Players. 
Let's say that it's very easy to

374
00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:02,300
break everything and just so to 
me I mean looks like more time 

375
00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:05,300
is the perfect time to introduce
someone to pretty game. 

376
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:10,900
Either right way, let's say this
in the Very Room to Links 

377
00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:16,900
stylish 3D gaming can work for 
you. 

378
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,300
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean, I'm famous today on 

379
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:22,800
tabletop space. 
I'm obviously famous for doing 

380
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,900
the sixth edition, which my 
whole mission was to balance the

381
00:24:25,900 --> 00:24:29,000
game because at that point 
Warhammer was very very much a 

382
00:24:29,008 --> 00:24:31,900
competitive game. 
I was a tournament player. 

383
00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:35,300
Alessio who worked for me was a 
competitive competitive. 

384
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,700
Player. 
Yeah, I know, I know him. 

385
00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:42,200
Yeah. 
So the the so when I wrote the 

386
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,500
sixth edition, my whole mission 
was to create a balanced game, 

387
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,400
but more Himes mission was to 
really a, it was the sort of 

388
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,400
introduction to warn the world 
and it of course had to follow 

389
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,900
the fifth edition rules closely 
at that point King, since there 

390
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:03,000
was no point writing a game, 
that wouldn't allow you to enter

391
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,200
into the rest of the games. 
Workshop's. 

392
00:25:05,700 --> 00:25:09,800
Didi games. 
But they the it was not written 

393
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,300
as a competitive game. 
There is a lot of stuff that I 

394
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:13,900
did. 
Like, for example, people always

395
00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:15,700
complain me. 
Why you made all my so 

396
00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:18,800
expensive. 
And I said before in Real World 

397
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,000
was the next, the most the next 
point to us. 

398
00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:25,400
Yeah. 
But in real world armor was 

399
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,500
super expensive. 
Like we see these Hollywood 

400
00:25:27,500 --> 00:25:30,000
movies. 
Everybody was wearing plate 

401
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,000
mail, but can't stop even a 
single Arrow which I find 

402
00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:35,200
hilarious. 
They have you. 

403
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:38,300
Ever seen a normal work in 
Hollywood movie against arrows 

404
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,000
or any strikes. 
No. 

405
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:46,900
But the, the actuality the 
people who during the medieval 

406
00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:50,700
and Renaissance times could 
actually afford sued Obama, they

407
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:54,600
were very very, very few. 
It was a huge status symbol. 

408
00:25:55,100 --> 00:25:59,900
So the the it was a decision to 
make some things expensive for 

409
00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:03,400
the sort of the World building, 
and role-playing and story 

410
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,200
aspects and not gain balance. 
Also, Also, I knew they were 

411
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,300
expensive. 
Yeah, I did it on purpose. 

412
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:12,400
Now people can disagree with 
moon me and what is easier to do

413
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,000
than agree with your gaming 
group, to cut the arm prices in 

414
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,500
half? 
Sure, go ahead but the the I 

415
00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:23,000
sort of wanted to you to 
experience what it would be like

416
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,100
to be a mercenary captain in the
the time of the three Emperors 

417
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,800
and the reality was that you 
couldn't give everybody heavy 

418
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,100
armor while in the warm of the 
battle system. 

419
00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:36,600
It's the the armor is so cheap. 
Or it was in that point that 

420
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,700
they you you don't even think 
about it. 

421
00:26:38,700 --> 00:26:40,400
You always buy all the arms. 
Yeah. 

422
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,600
Whoever it is, the only thing we
don't want to say the word fixed

423
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:49,700
the past the house. 
Rude was the saving throw. 

424
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:53,300
We just increase it by one. 
That's the only one that's 

425
00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:59,100
because it was like yeah, it's 
very costly and It's the closest

426
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:06,300
thing to attend making the work.
So you should survive pretty to 

427
00:27:06,300 --> 00:27:09,800
anything even if it's not only 
like that in reality. 

428
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,600
But there's, I mean, it's fine 
because we yeah, I mean, the 

429
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,800
thing about to great house roll.
Now last I said I had a sort of 

430
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,900
a guide to that I shouldn't 
deviate Too Much from the 5th 

431
00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:27,500
Edition rules. 
So the the like moving the, the 

432
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:32,400
armor, Peep higher. 
It's the, the there was that 

433
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,300
would have been a seen as a 
sort, of course, the idea was 

434
00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,100
that you play that and then, you
can pretty much play the 

435
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:40,800
Warhammer fantasy battle game as
well. 

436
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,400
And if you have a totally 
different rules, that could be 

437
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,800
seen as a bad thing. 
But I think that's awful, that's

438
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,600
great. 
And I would happily play in a 

439
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,300
tournament without that was a 
rule. 

440
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:54,700
There was a one additional 
benefit thought to making armor 

441
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:56,800
are which is the fluidity of the
game. 

442
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,400
Like I tried To streamline the 
game compared to what Warhammer 

443
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,900
was at that point and especially
what more do. 

444
00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:06,400
I was already. 
Nick Rimando was at that point. 

445
00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:11,100
I tried to make the the 
gameplay, much more fluidly and 

446
00:28:11,100 --> 00:28:13,100
they reduce the number of dice 
rolls. 

447
00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:15,900
And one benefit of very few 
people having arm rested. 

448
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:18,000
You had a lot less unsafe to 
make. 

449
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:27,000
Yeah, everywhere you were behind
the town crier to just 

450
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,500
wondering. 
I do remember if you were 

451
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:33,400
involved with. 
Yeah, it's the first 10-15 they 

452
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,200
did the issues, I will steal the
editor so I read everything. 

453
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,500
Edited Fair, few things rolled 
quite a few things as well. 

454
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:43,900
Like the opulent Goods was mine 
and Gobble a lot of people, they

455
00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:48,200
the baseman warband. 
I also do all sort of the dwarf 

456
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,300
or band there was a lot of 
Stuff. 

457
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:53,600
I wrote to the town crier, one 
special scenario, tons of stuff 

458
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,600
on and I think town crier had an
important role. 

459
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,600
Got the course right from the 
beginning. 

460
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:04,000
We said that look, we will do 
stuff, but most of the people 

461
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,500
writing tongue, prior our 
defense and hobbyists. 

462
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:11,200
This is The Game Belongs to them
at least as much as belongs to 

463
00:29:11,208 --> 00:29:14,000
the Games Workshop. 
And that was the, the philosophy

464
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,500
right from the beginning. 
Cause remember, mordheim was not

465
00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:21,800
meant to be the big moneymaker. 
Those were and still are always 

466
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,600
wear body cams fantasy, the 
other games are the two sort of 

467
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,100
support and grow hobby. 
Introduce new people. 

468
00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:32,100
Bringing you bringing Young 
people. 

469
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:36,200
It's TD those who don't want to 
read 300-page rulebook, just get

470
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,600
started or put two thousand 
three thousand dollars on the 

471
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,000
table to buy an army. 
So the I didn't have to worry 

472
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:49,200
too much about. 
How would I say it's the the 

473
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,500
just money. 
I mean they yeah as you might 

474
00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:54,800
remember more time box that was 
a 12 10 pounds. 

475
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,500
Cheaper than all the other Co 
box games at that time. 

476
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,100
Yeah there was no economic 
diving. 

477
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:07,200
Let's say kind of I mean yeah 
sure it made money but that was 

478
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,600
not the main reason why? 
I think maybe they could be a 

479
00:30:11,608 --> 00:30:14,400
drive for the main games. 
Yeah, yeah. 

480
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:21,300
And can you talk briefly about 
kind of the timeline of not? 

481
00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:27,400
I I know that mordheim came 
between 5th and 6th, but can you

482
00:30:27,408 --> 00:30:31,700
talk about how mordheim 
influenced Sixth edition. 

483
00:30:31,700 --> 00:30:36,400
And were some of those ideas 
already there that 6 Edition was

484
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,500
going to take on some of these 
qualities or is it did it kind 

485
00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:43,500
of come about purely because of 
mordheim? 

486
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,700
No, no, no, it's the six of 
these should have been pencil in

487
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:52,600
the calendar a long time before 
and the main way it influenced 

488
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,000
that was that they really the 
design studio used more hummus 

489
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,300
and acid test of can I actually 
write a full box game. 

490
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:02,700
I had done. 
Siege and the realm of chaos. 

491
00:31:02,700 --> 00:31:05,500
450 additional ready. 
And those were like big box 

492
00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:10,000
projects with a lot of stuff but
full box game is a big deal in 

493
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,900
Games Workshop especially at 
that time. 

494
00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:14,700
So mordheim prove that I can do 
it. 

495
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:20,100
Cause at that point the the 
callgames or Hammer was almost 

496
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:23,600
as big as 40K. 
So it was a big deal. 

497
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,800
Whoever wrote that, it mattered 
a lot. 

498
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,100
So the it's sort of allowed me 
to do it by the rules wise. 

499
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,400
Mordheim was based on 50 
addition, very strongly. 

500
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:38,900
But even what did how it did 
influence 6 Edition was that? 

501
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:42,500
Once I've done more time and I 
started on 6th edition, it 

502
00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:47,400
really made me to think of the, 
what are the the pain, Boyd's? 

503
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,900
What are the things that truly 
make things a lot better than 

504
00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:54,600
the, the others? 
It's the, how should I approach 

505
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,700
the price of the unit when I'm 
thinking about game balance and 

506
00:31:57,700 --> 00:32:01,100
not role-playing? 
So, the the The, the rules 

507
00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:05,900
themselves are self contained in
both games, I mean, they're both

508
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:08,300
cause they're both of the same 
game family. 

509
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:15,800
But the, I think, the, what you 
see more on actually more sort 

510
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,700
of TV, how it influences 6th 
edition was the art, because the

511
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,200
infant addition, it was very 
cartoony, very sort of sub. 

512
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,100
Some people called childish, 
very light-hearted, very 

513
00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:37,000
colorful cartoony. 
And then I think the z2c and and

514
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:42,200
maybe a bit more like a aimed at
the young teens rather than 

515
00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:46,600
young adults. 
And then we did mordheim and the

516
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,000
art Direction was very well 
received especially within the 

517
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,200
company and then you look at the
the how the six editions is 

518
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,300
presented. 
It's the it's called the 

519
00:32:56,300 --> 00:32:58,500
mordheim factor. 
That was very much with John 

520
00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:02,800
Blanche set out to do, do it 
John still considers mordheim 

521
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,300
his crowning achievement or 
twice in at Games Workshop. 

522
00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:11,000
And that is a high price, 
because John Blanche is the, the

523
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,800
word is used way, way too much 
nowadays, but John Blanche is a 

524
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,000
genuine Legend. 
Like he's the Grand Old, Man of 

525
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,500
the fantasy art in Europe. 
I mean, you, look at him. 

526
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:25,200
You guys remember the, the, the 
tolkien's world, like the 

527
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,500
pictures of the fall of 
gondolin, that was John blanch. 

528
00:33:28,500 --> 00:33:32,300
The Battle of the Five Armies. 
That was Blanche the, the cover 

529
00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:34,700
for the Dungeons and Dragons 
first edition in all across 

530
00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:38,800
Europe, that was John Blanche, 
obviously the entire look and 

531
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,600
feel of the the one reporter 
gate. 

532
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,500
That's John, Bunch modern, 
miniature painting. 

533
00:33:45,700 --> 00:33:49,300
Remember who won the first gold 
and Slayer demon sword? 

534
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:52,900
That was John. 
Blanche was thinking more about 

535
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:59,500
like every like to see a young 
Miller version of board by 

536
00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:02,100
parts. 
Quite disturbing. 

537
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,000
Yeah, well, that would be 
absolutely excellent. 

538
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,800
I mean a NN Jonas, you know, 
it's the worked years hand in 

539
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:18,199
hand so the the Irish it's the 
the dpd that would have been 

540
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:20,199
something that they would have 
been able to do. 

541
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:24,000
It's the the but of course in 
was independent at that point, 

542
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,400
great artist. 
One of the all-time greats, 

543
00:34:26,699 --> 00:34:30,800
wasn't that people that like 
when the 6th edition I'm out 

544
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:36,800
there was this huge tour on the 
dark side of the like clicks. 

545
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,400
Let's write a dark team with 
warmer with more dime and 

546
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,100
Battleship go Optics and 
everything that came out after 

547
00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:48,300
that completely different 
version of the fifth. 

548
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:52,100
And the second edition of the 
40K, just wondering if games, 

549
00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:57,900
like vampires the world of 
Darkness, you know, had an 

550
00:34:57,900 --> 00:34:59,800
influence. 
Because I do remember that 

551
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:05,900
intact, That those game that 
game had the Eugene factor in 

552
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:14,500
the very beginning of 2004 
racked and like pushed every 

553
00:35:14,900 --> 00:35:21,000
Perry project connected to them 
and say nerd war in the dark 

554
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:27,200
side of their games. 
Basically because yeah if we see

555
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:30,800
the 5th edition is completely 
different from the Six. 

556
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:38,200
But not in terms of rules, in 
terms of approach, like word 

557
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,700
Vision anymore dying. 
Is the maximum is the acronym of

558
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:46,900
of that thing that is the 
darkest thing they ever did, 

559
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:50,600
probably you coming. 
This product is connected to the

560
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,000
world of war. 
Yeah, no boil. 

561
00:35:53,300 --> 00:35:59,000
Only played the vampire quite a 
bit but nobody else in the 

562
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,800
design studio in the Of team 
team did how do if that mordheim

563
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:08,200
and 6th edition came about it. 
Really was more John Blanche, 

564
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,900
reaching back to the his roots 
and the the and we were 

565
00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:17,100
impressed by the load by the the
bush durrrr. 

566
00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:21,400
Lot of these middle-aged like 
artists who presented? 

567
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,500
This is what the Last Judgement 
looks like this. 

568
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:27,500
What hell looks like if there 
was influence from Vampire, it 

569
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:30,100
was maybe something's in my 
writing. 

570
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,000
It is since we all absorb, the 
games, we do about the 

571
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,700
presentation, you're referring 
to. 

572
00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:38,000
That's all John Blanche and the 
Old Masters. 

573
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:40,100
Okay, okay. 
Okay. 

574
00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:46,400
So speaking of more time and 
it's connection to 6th edition, 

575
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:54,700
I'm curious about the appendices
that includes Warhammer Skirmish

576
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:59,900
and the connection there is and 
how that how that came about 

577
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:01,500
Yep. 
Yep. 

578
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:04,400
I mean, when we I was writing 
the 6th edition. 

579
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,300
We were really big on the day. 
Let's offer the players, the 

580
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:15,700
biggest possible value for money
and they it was just in one day.

581
00:37:15,700 --> 00:37:18,300
It's the I think it was Gordon 
who was head of the studio said,

582
00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:22,600
hey can we just put the, the 
motorhome rules in the rulebook?

583
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,200
And I said, I will have to take 
make some changes, but sure and 

584
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,100
then another day it was Rick 
Priestley. 

585
00:37:28,100 --> 00:37:30,400
Who came to me? 
Remember the sea Siege. 

586
00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:33,400
I said yeah the can we put it in
the sixth edition rule book? 

587
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:39,800
I said yeah sure so that's why 
you ended up with the the sixth 

588
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,000
edition book being such a term. 
The whole point was that let's 

589
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:48,100
give the players and ability to 
play any kind of game without 

590
00:37:48,100 --> 00:37:51,500
having to buy supplements if 
possible apart from army books 

591
00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:57,900
in the Warhammer world. 
So the the So really, the reason

592
00:37:57,900 --> 00:38:02,900
of why the the a version of the 
slightly modified version of the

593
00:38:03,300 --> 00:38:06,400
Skirmish rules, it's the which 
obviously spaced more time is in

594
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:11,300
the book is that they are. 
We had a tested rule set. 

595
00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:14,900
It's the with a small changes 
could be made to work for the 

596
00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:19,100
sixth edition and we wanted to 
offer the sixth edition book to 

597
00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:21,600
be something like, when a player
gets it and Go, whoo, whoo! 

598
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,200
Oh, I can play so many different
things. 

599
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:28,200
There are rules for all these. 
Some date, the different kinds 

600
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,200
of battles and I believe that 
the warm Skirmish was played 

601
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,300
quite a bit. 
There was quite a lot of 

602
00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:36,900
especially fan support from The 
Vampire cows and lost real and 

603
00:38:36,900 --> 00:38:40,700
the is on and so forth, which 
again fed back to mode. 

604
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,200
And it stayed because all that 
stuff that the people came up 

605
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,700
with for the sixth edition was 
pretty much straight up usable 

606
00:38:46,700 --> 00:38:50,000
in mobile. 
I'm so the, the in the hindsight

607
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,400
I think that's been a one of the
reasons why the more time still 

608
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,900
endures to this day. 
Which is bloody impressive. 

609
00:38:57,900 --> 00:39:01,900
I mean, the amount of games I've
done that have been big hits but

610
00:39:01,900 --> 00:39:06,100
nobody would ever play them, 20 
years later, it's the baby, it's

611
00:39:06,100 --> 00:39:10,200
quite quite extraordinary. 
I mean it's but somewhat similar

612
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,700
to 6th edition which is still of
the poem a fantasy. 

613
00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:17,300
It's the, the is very, very 
loved and a much played version 

614
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:22,800
of the game still today, which 
is I am address probably between

615
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,400
the fifth and the The other 
option. 

616
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,100
Basically does not exist, at 
least in Italy. 

617
00:39:31,300 --> 00:39:35,800
So the big battle is between the
fifth and the sixth hurts 

618
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,400
against rules. 
You will show up yet while I was

619
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,700
50 state. 
They will have a lead on the day

620
00:39:41,700 --> 00:39:44,100
both games. 
So the, the I can't complain. 

621
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:46,400
Yeah. 
I'm worried Thomas. 

622
00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:50,100
Have you ever see there at about
writing a campaign? 

623
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:55,200
Like the one they had in the 5th
and 4th edition of Warhammer 

624
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,600
Fantasy 4. 
More than like, there was a plan

625
00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:04,800
and I know that there is because
I read it on the Facebook page, 

626
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,800
there is a main plot of the more
Diamond setting. 

627
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,100
I was wondering if you ever 
considered back in dinosaur, 

628
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,300
just what I needed about writing
a campaign. 

629
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:22,100
I still have my notes, how I run
the campaign in the design 

630
00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:25,700
studio, but there is a slight 
snag there that the strictly 

631
00:40:25,700 --> 00:40:28,100
speaking. 
Speaking, that's still Games. 

632
00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:29,800
Workshop property. 
I did write it. 

633
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:32,800
While I was employed on, my 
contract was quite clear, that 

634
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,500
everything I write for wama, 
including anything, I do in my 

635
00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:40,700
free time is their property. 
So I'm a little bit, how would I

636
00:40:40,700 --> 00:40:43,700
say? 
Wary of just the giving it out 

637
00:40:43,700 --> 00:40:47,200
to the world because they the 
exam. 

638
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,100
And I'm also talking morally 
like I put my name on contract 

639
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:53,200
and I should honor it. 
Yeah. 

640
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:59,100
There are plans how absurdly 
they're worried stay I mean I 

641
00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:03,400
left reasonably soon after the 
6th edition came out. 

642
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,000
So there was a ton of stuff. 
I was still planning to do for 

643
00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:10,600
more time. 
For war hammer, I had other game

644
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,800
ideas, it's the but that's just 
natural, right? 

645
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,300
That's what US game to game 
designers do, okay. 

646
00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:24,800
We are back after a short break.
Okay? 

647
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:31,300
So we were just discussing a 
campaign that you had run 

648
00:41:31,300 --> 00:41:36,700
Thomas, 44 mordheim, let's take 
the discussion back to the 

649
00:41:36,700 --> 00:41:40,000
perspective of a newcomer to the
game. 

650
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,800
Is there any advice that you 
would give to someone who wants 

651
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,000
to begin running a campaign of 
more time for their first time? 

652
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,600
Yeah, I think that the in order 
for the the to run a campaign 

653
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,900
that's actually like runs from 
beginning, till end, is the 

654
00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:01,800
first of all, you must have a 
clear idea what determines to 

655
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:06,600
win or lose and have a plan that
the people who fall behind and 

656
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,500
they no longer have a chance to 
win a see that they can somehow 

657
00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:13,100
contribute to it. 
So, let's for example, say that 

658
00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:16,800
there is a chance that the 
Indian, the campaign will end in

659
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:20,400
a huge battle. 
And yes, it's the The your 

660
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,300
progress tools for counts 
towards a benefits in that, but 

661
00:42:23,300 --> 00:42:26,600
everybody still has a chance to 
win or something like that one. 

662
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,400
Very good way to do this is to 
go to our the broheim or the 

663
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,400
warmer group files section in 
Facebook, and download the map 

664
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,000
based campaign that me and the 
the couple of other people did. 

665
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:42,500
I was I intended to include a 
map based campaign in the more 

666
00:42:42,500 --> 00:42:44,200
handbook. 
I just ran out of time. 

667
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:51,400
So, a year ago, it's the we did 
it that At in a single page 

668
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:56,200
gives you all the rules on how 
to run a campaign but really 

669
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,700
yeah, go ahead. 
Yeah, that's awesome. 

670
00:42:58,700 --> 00:43:00,400
Sorry, I couldn't contain 
myself. 

671
00:43:00,900 --> 00:43:04,700
Yeah, yeah. 
So, the, the other way is to 

672
00:43:04,700 --> 00:43:07,400
approach it a bit more. 
If you come from RPG. 

673
00:43:08,300 --> 00:43:12,000
The background is to organize a 
story, and there are like the 

674
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,700
games you determine what's 
Canarios in, which order people 

675
00:43:15,700 --> 00:43:20,100
play, and the the and they 
contribute to Victory And lost 

676
00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:22,500
his towards the story could be 
like the Choose Your Own 

677
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:25,600
Adventure style. 
So in the end, the campaign will

678
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,700
end one way or another, but 
there isn't a true Victory or 

679
00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:33,900
loss in a sense that the be you 
can't points but rather that the

680
00:43:34,100 --> 00:43:37,200
winning or losing battles along 
the way, we'll push the story 

681
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,300
towards a good ending to one 
faction or another. 

682
00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:45,200
So the the the that one takes a 
lot of work, you need to be very

683
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:46,900
dedicated. 
But if you be in a dungeon 

684
00:43:46,900 --> 00:43:49,900
master of game master in 
role-playing game that should be

685
00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:53,500
in your wheelhouse and most of 
the stuff is in the rulebook 

686
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:56,500
cause you really just need to 
write some fiction and choose 

687
00:43:56,500 --> 00:44:02,400
which scenarios you want to. 
Now you mentioned broheim which 

688
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,100
is broheim dotnet and it's like 
these source for finding all the

689
00:44:06,100 --> 00:44:10,700
information for the game. 
I think that you know from the 

690
00:44:10,700 --> 00:44:14,300
perspective of new new players 
wanting to get into the game. 

691
00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:19,600
Mordheim is very easy to get 
into the rules are easy to find.

692
00:44:20,100 --> 00:44:24,900
There's no special cards or 
templates, anything needed, as 

693
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:28,500
far as Miniatures go. 
There are so many Miniatures out

694
00:44:28,500 --> 00:44:31,000
there because the game is, you 
know, fantasy base. 

695
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,900
So it's not too hard to find 
that and we talked before about 

696
00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:39,800
terrain and how mordheim 
encourages you to create our own

697
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:45,600
terrain, although there are a 
wide number of terrain resources

698
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,600
available today that weren't 
around in the 90s with three 

699
00:44:49,700 --> 00:44:53,900
Eddie Printing and laser cut MDF
and all these things you can 

700
00:44:53,900 --> 00:44:57,700
think of. 
But on the topic of terrain for 

701
00:44:57,700 --> 00:45:03,700
a new beginner, how much terrain
is needed what and what would 

702
00:45:03,700 --> 00:45:08,700
too much or too little terrain 
due to the state of the game. 

703
00:45:09,700 --> 00:45:13,600
Well to lethal means that the 
missile fire will dominate the 

704
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:19,200
the game and it will be boring. 
The too much is almost an 

705
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,400
oxymoron. 
Need more time, but you do want,

706
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,300
if it makes it so dense that 
it's very difficult to move the 

707
00:45:24,300 --> 00:45:28,300
Miniatures around, you will have
a problem but by and large the 

708
00:45:28,300 --> 00:45:31,900
reach of the table. 
The better, however my one hint 

709
00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:35,400
is that there are many rules in 
mode had many many rules in the 

710
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,500
that deal with height 
differences. 

711
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:42,500
So instead of just thinking of 
feeling the board as much 

712
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,400
horizontally as possible as you 
would do in most miniature games

713
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,600
think of verticality tower. 
Stay there. 

714
00:45:49,700 --> 00:45:53,900
Did the a street levels or the 
streets on different levels 

715
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:57,400
walkaways just like they were in
the real medieval cities up 

716
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,900
above the streets? 
It's the kennels that the give 

717
00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:06,000
you death and most importantly, 
which is why I'm part of the 

718
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,200
reason why I made the story of 
more. 

719
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,800
I'm about the comic striking, a 
city just wreck your buildings. 

720
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,600
The problem I always had because
we wanted to do a cd-based 

721
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:16,800
fantasy game. 
For a long time. 

722
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,600
Is that tell me what is the 
worst possible? 

723
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:25,300
So, terrain or a miniature game,
it's a building cause the damn 

724
00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:29,600
bugger is a closed box with a, a
slanted roof. 

725
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,900
So you can't put Miniatures 
anywhere. 

726
00:46:32,100 --> 00:46:35,700
So the only thing it does, is it
stops you from play, however, 

727
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,500
you blast a mini, you blast, a 
meteorite there. 

728
00:46:39,500 --> 00:46:43,400
So there is just Corner standing
bit softer, the, the roof there 

729
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,500
are ladders and the, the 
everywhere there are windows 

730
00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:49,000
that they did. 
You can position characters to 

731
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:49,900
the inside. 
Them. 

732
00:46:49,900 --> 00:46:53,100
Suddenly, you have an awesome 
terrain to play over. 

733
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,000
It's the, the and that's why 
there are rules for diving 

734
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,400
charges and climbing, and 
falling off from the veggies and

735
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,700
pushing characters and the, the 
getting Advantage from sniping 

736
00:47:03,700 --> 00:47:08,700
from above, its the, the all 
these things are there to 

737
00:47:08,700 --> 00:47:12,900
encourage that. 
So more is usually better but 

738
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:17,400
it's actually possibly, at least
as important that you think of 

739
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,400
the verticality of the table. 
And it's also the most fun to 

740
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:26,200
build and I know your time is 
limited. 

741
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:31,600
So one one question here, I want
to ask you before you go there 

742
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:36,400
any like last-minute tips or 
things that players should avoid

743
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:38,700
things that they don't want to 
break the game. 

744
00:47:38,700 --> 00:47:44,000
So anything that might any 
last-minute thoughts, I guess? 

745
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:49,500
Yeah, I mean mordheim was not 
conceived as a minimum. 

746
00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:51,900
Xing Tournament game. 
So there are a couple of 

747
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,000
well-known ways to break the 
game as they did, the essene not

748
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:59,000
necessarily, even that you win 
every match, but that you make 

749
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,800
every game you play boring for 
both you and your opponent. 

750
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:11,600
The skaven sling, spam is one of
the, the there are a few things 

751
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,400
that you should not do to ruin 
the game for everyone. 

752
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,500
Those are pretty well-known, but
once you get into any of them, 

753
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:22,500
Behind groups, everybody knows 
them. 

754
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:26,900
It's the the you probably want 
to deal somehow with the offhand

755
00:48:26,900 --> 00:48:30,700
weapon fighting so that they are
at least that you don't just get

756
00:48:30,700 --> 00:48:34,600
everybody in your web and to 
weapons and the Just the Way 

757
00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:42,100
Forward charging groups. 
The the don't break the game, 

758
00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:45,700
for the sake of breaking cost of
winning or losing, it's 

759
00:48:45,700 --> 00:48:49,500
important but it should not come
in x. 

760
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,900
Spence of making the really 
exciting battle. 

761
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,600
Think about the, the, your robe 
and what's the story. 

762
00:48:56,900 --> 00:48:59,900
Why are they there? 
It's the, where do they come 

763
00:48:59,900 --> 00:49:01,400
from? 
So they could be be. 

764
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,300
So instead of just saying that, 
I want to maximize the damage I 

765
00:49:04,300 --> 00:49:06,200
do. 
It's the the you might think 

766
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:11,900
that this guy was a hunter, so 
I'm gonna give the him a longbow

767
00:49:11,900 --> 00:49:15,800
and hunting arrows and suddenly 
you have this interesting sniper

768
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:21,500
it character. 
So the the More behind isn't 

769
00:49:21,700 --> 00:49:26,000
like a competitive collectible 
card game a game that's it's 

770
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:33,800
been built to try to avoid any 
overt baby imbalances because it

771
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,900
was super important that each of
the wolf and band. 

772
00:49:36,900 --> 00:49:41,900
Feels like the story they did 
that they are set to tell so 

773
00:49:41,900 --> 00:49:44,600
they the I think it's Don't Be a
Jerk. 

774
00:49:44,700 --> 00:49:48,900
That's a very good rule for 
putting on now like feelings 

775
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:50,900
over. 
Numbers. 

776
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:54,900
Can be yep. 
It can be. 

777
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:59,500
I mean I have no objection of 
you, but I would rather win a 

778
00:49:59,500 --> 00:50:03,300
more high in game by coming off,
with some outlandish 

779
00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:07,100
combination. 
It's the the, like what I did in

780
00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:11,200
my own campaign, I put all my 
effort on my witch hunter since 

781
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,800
the, which others is the only 
War band where every hero can 

782
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:19,100
take academic skill, I Ruled the
trading sequence. 

783
00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:23,800
So I lost a few games but then 
eventually Really, it's the eye 

784
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:28,000
of equipment got so cheap to me.
That everybody had a very 

785
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:30,800
unique, but very outlandish 
gear, and I became powerful 

786
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,700
because of that, that's a very 
different way than just trying 

787
00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:37,500
to minimize a maximum number of 
slings. 

788
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,900
So at least every model on my 
post was very interesting and 

789
00:50:40,900 --> 00:50:45,200
unique. 
So the the if you are looking to

790
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,600
be powerful at least be 
interesting in a way that you 

791
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,700
chase the power so that your 
opponent experiences Something 

792
00:50:52,700 --> 00:50:56,900
else than you just rolling the 
same number of dice to shoot the

793
00:50:56,900 --> 00:50:59,500
same weapons every single turn 
and you don't move. 

794
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:01,200
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

795
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:05,300
I like to write your comments on
bringing character to your 

796
00:51:05,300 --> 00:51:10,500
warband and having them tell a 
story and I imagine that kind of

797
00:51:10,500 --> 00:51:14,400
using a wysiwyg approach where 
all your models are modeled 

798
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:17,200
exactly how they're actually 
armed. 

799
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:22,800
Both helps to build a narrative 
and it also makes Playing the 

800
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:23,800
game. 
Much easier. 

801
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:26,400
Yep. 
Yep. 

802
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,200
And and memorable. 
Remember it's the, I think the 

803
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:34,200
reason I mean so few games last 
this long, especially on the 

804
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,100
tabletop space, there are so 
many board games have been to 

805
00:51:37,100 --> 00:51:39,900
games that they did. 
Some of them were even were big 

806
00:51:39,900 --> 00:51:44,300
and they are not forgotten and I
do think it's the the a lot of 

807
00:51:44,300 --> 00:51:47,500
things in mordheim contribute 
towards it being memorable. 

808
00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:50,000
I mean, it's so difficult to 
succeed. 

809
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,000
So it when you do something 
awesome. 

810
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:55,900
Stay the you really remember it 
and because the game spilled on 

811
00:51:55,900 --> 00:51:59,400
you trying to make a warband 
your own. 

812
00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:04,000
It's the the rather than a 
generic Force, its remains in 

813
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:05,900
the back of your head. 
You remember the characters who 

814
00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:08,100
created you? 
Remember the stories that they 

815
00:52:08,100 --> 00:52:12,500
went through in the exploration 
or the the the injury chart and 

816
00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:15,400
the skills you picked for them 
and what advances they got from 

817
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:19,500
the random charts. 
That the I think that's part of 

818
00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:22,400
the reason why I remember it. 
I also think that the The 

819
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:26,000
division between henchmen and 
heroes means that in most 

820
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,400
Commish games, you're supposed 
to remember a name every single 

821
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,900
model and that's a lot. 
But if you have like, a classic 

822
00:52:32,900 --> 00:52:36,400
group of from the, the 126 
Heroes which is exactly the more

823
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,100
Himes hero approach, then you 
can remember those six people 

824
00:52:40,100 --> 00:52:42,300
each one of them will say, 
unique personality. 

825
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,100
And I think all these little 
things that they are in mordheim

826
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:51,300
are part of, the reason why it 
still lives on Well, thank you 

827
00:52:51,300 --> 00:52:56,300
so much for for coming on here, 
Thomas to talk to us about this.

828
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,900
I guarantee that, after 
listening to this, there's going

829
00:52:59,900 --> 00:53:02,600
to be a lot of buzz in the 
Discord. 

830
00:53:02,700 --> 00:53:05,500
And I'm going to get all kinds 
of questions about how do I get 

831
00:53:05,500 --> 00:53:07,900
started in the game. 
And, and where can I find some 

832
00:53:07,900 --> 00:53:10,900
of this stuff? 
So thanks again for, you know, 

833
00:53:10,900 --> 00:53:18,000
really inspiring us to to game. 
I know I promised you an 

834
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,200
opportunity to talk about some 
of the Projects that you are 

835
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,800
currently working on. 
And I would love to be able to 

836
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,400
talk to you again about that at 
some point, if you'd like, yep. 

837
00:53:30,300 --> 00:53:34,100
Well, a couple of things I want 
to say, first of all, before all

838
00:53:34,100 --> 00:53:38,200
senior sort of experienced 
senior Gamers. 

839
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:43,100
It's the remember your duty I 
think is that the be welcoming 

840
00:53:43,100 --> 00:53:45,700
to new players because the only 
way we are going to have this 

841
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:50,800
whole baby is if we bring the 
Next Generation up, PP. 

842
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,700
So that's one very important 
message. 

843
00:53:52,700 --> 00:53:55,600
I always want to put out as for 
projects, I'm working on. 

844
00:53:56,300 --> 00:54:00,400
If you go to Kickstarter you 
will find a marvelous game, 

845
00:54:00,500 --> 00:54:04,300
miniature game called, trench 
Crusade that did the. 

846
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:09,100
I am doing the rules for which 
is sort of a first world war 

847
00:54:09,100 --> 00:54:13,500
sci-fi version of modem that I'm
doing with our highly modernized

848
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:16,700
rules but they did. 
That will be coming out later 

849
00:54:16,700 --> 00:54:19,100
this year. 
And I've also made a company 

850
00:54:19,100 --> 00:54:21,800
level. 
The sea tabletop game. 

851
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,500
That's I'm going to just 
distribute free as a gift to be 

852
00:54:25,500 --> 00:54:28,900
the community. 
As in general is the later this 

853
00:54:28,900 --> 00:54:31,600
year. 
I'm obviously also work a lot on

854
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,200
video games so if you're looking
for some say old school shooting

855
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:37,200
action, I designed a game called
mr. 

856
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,000
Auto-fire for your phones, I've 
done a lot of console games and 

857
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,000
the PC games art as well along 
the way. 

858
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:47,200
But right now my sort of a day 
job is to make one's from the 

859
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,100
mobile devices, which is 
surprisingly a lot of fun. 

860
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,700
No, but I will never abandon the
tabletop. 

861
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,600
Well, if you wanted to link me 
to any of those projects, I'll 

862
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,300
make sure to add them into our 
show notes so other people can 

863
00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:04,000
click on them and see what else 
you're working on. 

864
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:06,100
Absolutely you're going to get 
the links. 

865
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:11,200
Awesome, thank you very much for
the dots are amazing, just 

866
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:17,800
checking it now. 
And yeah, wow, I try to keep 

867
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:22,500
quality high on everything I do.
Yeah, we know it. 

868
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:25,700
Excellent. 
Well, maybe I have a chance to 

869
00:55:25,700 --> 00:55:28,800
catch you in Modena. 
It's the later this year. 

870
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:33,600
So the and I look and I will 
gladly become a guest again. 

871
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,700
So the the I need to jump off at
this point, but thanks for 

872
00:55:37,700 --> 00:55:39,100
having me. 
Awesome. 

873
00:55:39,100 --> 00:55:42,000
Well, thank you again for coming
and I hope to talk to you soon. 

874
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:43,600
Thank you. 
Bye-bye. 

875
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,400
Voiceover by Owen state. didn't 
you can find me on the time 

876
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:58,400
between times podcast or Specter
of the see if you want to 

877
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:03,600
contact me or in statement at 
AOL.com, do your humble