1 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,400 Thank you for joining me. OK, so Powder, you are the 2 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,960 creator of Warhammer Renaissance, the game that I 3 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,840 love. Can I ask you to tell me how you 4 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:29,400 first got into Warhammer Fantasy battles way back when? 5 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:37,720 Way back then, yeah. That must have been early 1993 6 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,880 or something. I believe I was into 7 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:47,520 role-playing games, I still AM, and I really wanted to play a 8 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,320 tabletop game. But none existed. 9 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,720 Or at least there was none available for me. 10 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,720 Maybe if I had lived in in Copenhagen, that could have been 11 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,640 a little shop that might have a tabletop game, but there was 12 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,440 nothing to get. And well, as far as I was 13 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,920 concerned, the Internet wasn't invented yet, so I couldn't find 14 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,480 any. So a friend mentioned to me that 15 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:19,080 this Warhammer Fantasy Battles game was on the shelf in the big 16 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:23,480 city. And well, that that was actually 17 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,880 the purpose of Games Workshop, the whole idea with making this 18 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,320 box set. Let's see if we can get this box 19 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:37,240 set into regular bookstores or toy stores so the kids can have 20 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:38,640 it. And that's how I found it. 21 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:44,040 So we bought each our our box and then we shared. 22 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:49,000 He took the goblins and I took the heils, the wonderful, 23 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:53,920 elegant monopause high heels of the 1992 box set. 24 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,640 And then it it went on from there. 25 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,000 I had never had any problems to find other peoples who were 26 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:01,760 interested in, in playing Warhammer. 27 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,760 There were always some people who thought, oh, this, this 28 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:09,039 looks really great. So we started playing and of 29 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:12,920 course, the first games we played, we, we, we didn't get 30 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:17,120 the rules right. So the first few times I played, 31 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,520 I I just didn't understand this cannot be balanced. 32 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,000 But that's because I forgot about brake tests. 33 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,320 Yeah, and that makes an entirely different game. 34 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,920 Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. 35 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:32,760 OK. And did you, I'm kind of 36 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,120 interested in whether you played any other games, because at that 37 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:40,360 time, of course Games Workshop had two or three big games. 38 00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:44,560 So was it just Warhammer few apart from the role-playing or 39 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:51,680 did you try 40K or other things? Well, I did try 40K, but I've 40 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:58,080 always stayed on a clean pass, you know, I had I realized and 41 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:04,040 it's still my opinion that I don't have time for two games of 42 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:09,440 this of the scope. So I never really played 43 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:16,680 anything but fantasy. So I have tried different games 44 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:24,280 in in in the 90s I was looking for alternative games to, to 45 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,160 Warhammer. It's, it's really a wonderful 46 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:33,440 game, but I thought, ah, it's, it's somewhat unbalanced and it 47 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:40,480 really doesn't capture the, the feel of a mass combat battle 48 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,880 where regiment really matters because were in, in, in, in 49 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:49,880 truth, magic and war machines and and characters indeed were, 50 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,120 were perhaps stronger than regiments in the older days. 51 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:56,760 The armies were stronger than other armies. 52 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,760 So I was almost looking for another game and I actually 53 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,880 found one that worked. It's it's very obscure. 54 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,000 I don't think anyone really heard of it, but the Canadian 55 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,080 War Gamers group published a game called Legendary. 56 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,480 Battles and. It's, it's a medieval slash 57 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:19,800 fantasy game and it's it's very neat designed and it's very 58 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,240 balanced. And I was very impressed by it 59 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,600 and it's the most boring game I've ever played. 60 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:32,600 So I realized, oh, oh, oh, what what I thought about as balance 61 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:38,080 was just less randomness, I believe or, or, or luck being a 62 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,360 smaller factor. But actually when you have a 63 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:45,200 very balanced game, I mean, just one diode could could really 64 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,880 make the difference because in the end it has to be a diode. 65 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:51,560 Well, in, in legendary battles, it was deployment of the 66 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,560 terrain. It, it, it meant everything. 67 00:04:54,080 --> 00:05:01,560 So if you try to restrict a game in order to even out some 68 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,200 issues, other issues will pop up and there will be, there will 69 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:09,440 there will be more. So actually legendary battles to 70 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,000 something. Also for for Warhammer 71 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:20,960 Renaissance that there should be lots, lots of events that could 72 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,560 really be influential on the game. 73 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,040 There should be moments of consequence. 74 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:28,560 There's you. You should be able to cast a 75 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,720 spell and perhaps you can win the game by casting the spell. 76 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,720 You should be able to make just one chance and perhaps you 77 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,720 should be able to to win the game. 78 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:42,680 But overall it would be like you will have to take a chance and 79 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,720 you will need to be lucky. So take as many chances as you 80 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,160 possibly can. Put yourself in a situation 81 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,520 where you can be more lucky than your opponent. 82 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:54,840 That's actually what the game is about. 83 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,280 And then you're not really lucky. 84 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,320 You're taking more chances, you're creating more chances. 85 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:08,600 Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah, approach to it, like you 86 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,200 say, moments of consequence and have as many of those as 87 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,880 possible in the game. So like you say, have some 88 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,960 artillery that could potentially be devastating, have a wizard or 89 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,560 two that have potentially gaining in spells and a few 90 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,360 other things like that. And that's what I suppose 91 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:36,240 Renaissance and those early editions like 4th and 5th had 92 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,000 perhaps more than the later editions from what I understand, 93 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,360 which where they tried maybe like this Canadian game to sort 94 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:47,440 of make it more balanced, but took out a lot of the fun and 95 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,600 some of the items and things that that give you those 96 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,760 opportunities to make the game, to win the game and to make the 97 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,040 game quite far. Yes. 98 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,640 So there were of course things that needs to be amended in in 99 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,920 the old edition. So I thought about taking a 100 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,440 different approach. Rather than ironing out 101 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,840 everything and making it more plain. 102 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:16,000 I just tried to fix the balance between, you know, regiments and 103 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,120 the rest of the game. So by improving regiments, 104 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,000 making them easily more easily able to manoeuvre around the 105 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,120 game and making them have a higher impact in in head to end 106 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,320 combat and stuff like that, that could actually fit a lot it 107 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,080 turned out. Yeah, like I really agree with 108 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,520 your sort of designer, probably your approach to that. 109 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,960 I find it interesting that like, you know, some people maybe take 110 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,040 the view, which may be nostalgic, but maybe based on 111 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,960 their actual experience, where like, you know, The thing is 112 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,960 almost perfect as it as it was. But I kind of feel like many 113 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,560 people, including yourself, have sort of showed that if you if 114 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,760 you do try and play these games according to the rules in any 115 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,560 format other than like a very casual one where you're actually 116 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:10,880 trying to to win, you quickly run into all sorts of issues, be 117 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:16,880 it in balance or, you know, like stuff that's too good or no good 118 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:21,400 at all. So, yeah, I kind of certainly 119 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,080 subscribe to the view that you can improve these games. 120 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,320 And I kind of felt that like that at the time as well. 121 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,320 Like I like you. I think when I was playing 122 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:35,120 fourth was constantly pulling my hair out when I had some like 123 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,960 then, you know, with the weirdness of some of the stuff, 124 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,720 you know, that made no sense, like the, you know, the the 125 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:45,280 monsters that that just you couldn't deal with regiments 126 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:48,360 that would then dominate all the heroes that did that. 127 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:56,880 So yeah, for me, I totally like the idea of of keeping most of 128 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,560 it, but kind of tweaking it to make it. 129 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,240 I think we should. We should remember where 130 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,160 Warhammer comes from. Warhammer was originally more 131 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,720 like a role-playing game, so they just made the rules to 132 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:19,520 simulate not not come back between 5:00 or 10:00 opponents, 133 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,880 but with many more models. And then they enlarged the scope 134 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,440 of the game, but they kept the idea for Game Master until the 135 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,640 4th edition. The 4th edition was the first 136 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,760 attempt to make a game where you could play it without a Game 137 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:37,040 Master. And yet they they're not really 138 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,360 changed it that much. So it was really still a game 139 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:46,120 where, OK, I want to come up with an army, but you have three 140 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,720 hands to make that army. You could make these absurd 141 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:50,920 armies. Well, in in warmer Renaissance, 142 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,400 you can still make absurd armies if if you want to. 143 00:09:53,800 --> 00:10:00,280 But when absurd armies became better in in in in terms of 144 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,280 chances of winning, it took it took, took something off the 145 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,840 game back then. And I really was, I was, I was 146 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,040 partly annoyed by the game, but also loved it. 147 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,400 It's really a love hate relationship. 148 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,600 And I always wanted to change the game and, and, and fix what 149 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:25,480 was broken also back in the 90s. But, but there was many things 150 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,760 about the game I actually didn't understand that I understand now 151 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,040 the things I've, I've told you about something that I thought 152 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,040 that was broken, but really wasn't broken. 153 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,960 Also when, when I, when I actually made Warhammer 154 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:43,240 Renaissance, I made many changes and then I realized, oh, I don't 155 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,880 need those changes. The, the, the game is actually 156 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:51,240 much better than I thought. I just had to make a few 157 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,080 changes. So many of the changes I've 158 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:57,000 made, I cancelled again and went back to the original because I 159 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,800 like had fixed the same problem three times or something like 160 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:02,240 that. And I only had to do it once. 161 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,160 I see. Yeah, I mean, what you've 162 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,440 created is quite, you know, amazing in terms of the amount 163 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:11,800 of effort. And I think you mentioned 164 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,000 previously that it took a few years to do it. 165 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,680 And that doesn't surprise me because I realized first hand 166 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:22,280 how how much effort you need to put in to to do it. 167 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,840 So when you when you first started, was the intention to to 168 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,200 produce something that you would be able to play with your 169 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,080 existing group of friends? And had they expressed any 170 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,640 interest when you started that project or did you not really 171 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,480 know at that point what was going to happen? 172 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,080 You just thought you'd do it and see what the people. 173 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,360 It was entirely my own brain sound. 174 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:53,560 Now we have to go back to 2017 and I believe it was the 20th of 175 00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:59,160 June and I got this idea. I want to play tabletop games 176 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,160 again. I I put all my miniatures and my 177 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,760 books and my stuff away. Stoked it away in 2010. 178 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:14,440 That was a very eventful year and it also we were also 179 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:20,120 expecting the second child and I realized I just did not have the 180 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,000 time for it. So in the summer of 2010 I 181 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,880 played my last Wahama game and put the game away. 182 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:32,040 But in 2017 I have got a little time again and it just suddenly 183 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,840 occurred to me, I need to play Mohammed again. 184 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,640 So I started, I really, I had no choice. 185 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:45,800 It was a compulsion. It was, it was a compulsion so 186 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,960 strong that you can read about it in the works of Ed Galanto. 187 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:53,040 I mean, I had to do it. I had to kill him and I just had 188 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:57,360 to play that game again. I had no choice so I had to find 189 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,560 out what what should I play. So I I looked into the 9th 190 00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:05,160 edition because actually some of my friends have been involved in 191 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,360 in making 9th edition and they played a lot and I would really 192 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,120 like to be a part of that community. 193 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:16,280 I also found the the rule book very impressive but it was very 194 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,840 much like 8 edition. I could see it was probably 195 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,800 improved, but I didn't really like 8 edition. 196 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,760 So I came up with some ideas and stuff, but it didn't didn't take 197 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:36,000 a long time before I realized when was the time I remember the 198 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:42,600 fondest, what was the most fun and realized look, that was 4th 199 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,280 and 5th edition. So I had to take my point of 200 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,120 departure in that game. I had no intention of writing a 201 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,680 whole game of the scope. Of course not. 202 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,000 But it just grew. I started making, you know, 203 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,440 house rules. And at one point of time I could 204 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,120 see, oh, these house rules, they are becoming so large. 205 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,360 I need to I need to to write it whole from stress. 206 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,760 I need to write it all over in one book. 207 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,320 Otherwise you cannot, you cannot find your way around in the 208 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,120 rules. And then I said just made some 209 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:22,440 corrections to the army books. But then I found out that in 210 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:26,160 order to make the army books work, I also had to incorporate 211 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:31,200 many rules and ideas from 6th edition, which was the best 212 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,040 edition when you think about a game that works and can be 213 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:41,520 played competitively. So I also had to, to make these 214 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:46,240 army books and for then it started developing and I believe 215 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,160 the game is as we know it now. It's, it's clearly visible in 216 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:56,920 2000 and 1920. And then I just keep updating, 217 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,840 clarifying, expanding as the years go on. 218 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,840 But I mean, if you, if you're sitting with the 2000 and, and 219 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,680 21 rule book and I'm, and I'm sitting with the current 2024, 220 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,680 you probably won't notice. Not until we cast a certain 221 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,480 spell, which we have made some corrections for something like 222 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,680 that. Yeah, I got the impression that 223 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,240 it hadn't changed a lot. So it's interesting because one 224 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,280 of the Josh's comments was how he likes the fact that he 225 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,880 updates annually, and that seems to be the case. 226 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,560 But those updates aren't dramatic changes, are they? 227 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:40,120 I don't think so. You and me, we updated the 228 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,600 Battle Magic book and let me thank you very, very much for 229 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,080 your word, Nick. You did a really great job and I 230 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,720 hope you would help me fixing things here and there in the 231 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,200 next edition too. Yeah, I would love to. 232 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:54,440 Yeah. So count me in. 233 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,800 It was a it was a hell of a lot harder than I expected. 234 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,960 It made me realise just. But there's a lot of spells, 235 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,120 aren't there? I mean, it didn't really occur 236 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,320 to me, but when you count them all out, there's like well over 237 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:05,720 100. I mean, I wasn't doing all of 238 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,520 them, but even the ones I did were, it took a long time. 239 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,200 So yeah, it's, it made me realize how big a job you've 240 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:19,840 done to get the rule books and the armies just be on my yeah. 241 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:25,520 Well, I spread the work out over seven years, so it doesn't feel 242 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,800 that much. But yes, I have put a lot of 243 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:28,960 work into it. I know. 244 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:36,440 But I don't expect to put that much work into the future 245 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:42,320 because each year the game change less and less and less. 246 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:50,200 And I, I really don't want to change the game so that people 247 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,560 start thinking, oh, now we need to read the rule book all over 248 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:55,920 and rethink the game. No, no, no. 249 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,880 It's just clarifying, clarifying, clarifying. 250 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,280 I know you're all eager to know if, if I have planned any 251 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:12,640 changes for the 25 edition. And no, no, I, I intend to, to 252 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,359 finish the job. I, I never finished, you know, 253 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,760 including the small army books, updating them and including them 254 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,119 in the official Army books. You know those that that never 255 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:31,480 got a book back in the 90s, The North, the ogres, the halflings 256 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:38,320 and the slam and the chisle. I will look into that. 257 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:44,400 And of course I have one or two or three items I've invented 258 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,920 I'll I'll put in as well. Maybe we'll change some point 259 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,120 cost. I realised when I was playing 260 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:57,280 Beast Men recently that double hand weapons for goals with 261 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,640 toughness to his price to lose, they have to go up. 262 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:05,000 But you know, we on this level, what I'm mostly concerned about 263 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,320 is clarifying the rules. I think they are. 264 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,800 They are very clear and they are clearer than they have ever 265 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,480 been. But they can always be better. 266 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,800 So I think that every year I realized I could, I could write 267 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:23,240 this bit, but they'll never get perfect and they can't. 268 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:31,600 Because I've realised that when you're explaining a rule, you 269 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,680 must like expect the reader to know all of the rules in the 270 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,680 game and you cannot mention all rules at the same time. 271 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,840 So what often happen when we play and people look in the rule 272 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,080 book like, where is it mentioned? 273 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,360 Where can I find it? And I think maybe I should 274 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:55,280 mention this rule here and also here and also here. 275 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:01,120 Well, First off, if I if I write the same rule several times in 276 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:08,880 the several places in the rule book, then you cannot when it's 277 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:10,440 very difficult to change the rule. 278 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,840 If I want to do that, then I have to find all places where 279 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,280 I've written about that rule. But now that I'm not going to 280 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,000 change rules, I I have done that to A to a small degree. 281 00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:27,600 But you cannot, you cannot mention all rules in the same 282 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,720 place. It becomes very repetitive and 283 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,280 that won't work. So they they never get perfect. 284 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,360 But I can always try to think, can I structure this more 285 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,000 logically, make it easier to understand? 286 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,080 Could I, could I put some reference, look up in this 287 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,880 chapter? There are more rooms there and 288 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:49,760 stuff like that, but we all on a an improvement about 1% or 289 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,080 something like that. Yeah, level like that. 290 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:59,160 I think you said the game was 99% finished in 2020, so I think 291 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,000 that's probably fair. Maybe 99.9 cents. 292 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:03,120 Yeah. Now. 293 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:07,560 But it's still, it's still a little bit of, you know, wording 294 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:12,200 changes here and there could, yeah, occasionally be helpful. 295 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,320 Yeah. And I don't have any future 296 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,680 plans for the game, no, because this is this is a game that 297 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,880 looks into the past. I want to rediscover the past. 298 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,520 And the past is a limited area in, in this particular case 299 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,800 anyhow. And I think I've covered 300 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,320 everything that was back then. Sometimes the suggestion could, 301 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,560 could you add this unit? What about this magic item and 302 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,720 stuff? And we are I I often say, yes, 303 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,440 if people actually actually play the game and they want this, why 304 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,880 not? Yeah, very much it's if it's 305 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:50,400 really against the spirit of the game. 306 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,200 As I see that's just right. This is a non non efficient 307 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,960 rule. You need your opponent consent 308 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,800 to to to apply this unit or something like that. 309 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,960 But it's usually not a problem. Yeah, it does strike me that 310 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,160 it's a little bit difficult to balance the kind of competing 311 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:12,320 desires of the fan base when it is a kind of a, you know, a game 312 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,320 that's, you know, you do encourage people's feedback. 313 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,360 And a lot of time the feedback is to add more of their own, the 314 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:20,800 units that they want to add that aren't current units. 315 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,440 Sometimes the main units they've got better. 316 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,960 You know, that's another common theme of people. 317 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,720 It's kind of natural, I suppose. Yeah, it must be sometimes 318 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:35,040 difficult to to make decisions as to whether or not you know 319 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:40,680 you should follow their suggestions or keep things as 320 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:46,160 they are. It's not that difficult really. 321 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,600 I I know very much what I want the game to be like, so it's if 322 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,160 it's within existing parameters, no problem. 323 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,320 Yeah. Do you have much idea about the 324 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,880 kind of global player base for this game? 325 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:07,000 It must be difficult to know much, but who do you think is 326 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:08,240 playing that people are actually? 327 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:16,160 Playing well, my best guess is hundreds, it could be thousands, 328 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:22,880 but I don't think so. I, when I talk to people who 329 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,400 play the game, I, I sense that there are more people playing 330 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,880 the game behind them somewhere. People that I don't talk to, 331 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,280 people who don't act in, in the Facebook group, people I don't 332 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:39,440 hear about. So there is a dark number 333 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,120 somewhere. But I, I can see that there's 334 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:49,960 always coming new people to the Facebook group and there are 335 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,440 there have been several 100 downloads. 336 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,320 I think you you were saying a download is some very important 337 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,560 thing for the game to, to get distributed, but people also 338 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,200 hand over the game to their friends. 339 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:10,440 For example, last time I went to a tournament, there was a a 340 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,560 broke and he gave me a hard cob, a copy of my own rule book, 341 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,120 which he had made. And this guy's not on Facebook. 342 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,560 So he so he has he's got an access to the books and 343 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,480 distributed them on on his own. I was I was very thankful for 344 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,000 that book. It's really, really wonderful to 345 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,040 see a hardcover version of the book with literally, it looks 346 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,600 very, very good. And sometimes I just reading it 347 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,040 before I turn in at night because I'd love to have that 348 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,320 book in my hands. Yeah, that's nice. 349 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,320 So I would say hundreds, hundreds, probably, maybe 350 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,400 thousands, but probably hundreds. 351 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,200 That's great. Yeah. 352 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,880 Well, there's a group of us that play in Japan and enjoy it very 353 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,720 much. So yeah, it's good to see that 354 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,040 it's being played around the world in the hundreds. 355 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,880 So how often do you get a chance to play the game these days? 356 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,760 I know you play the game game of what we might call Garden Hammer 357 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:19,200 recently, but is it you're sort of every week kind of player or 358 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:28,080 how often do you get a chance? Oh, well, sometimes there's a 359 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:33,080 dry spell, and that's mainly because of work. 360 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:38,720 You know, I have a day job and workload is somewhat unevenly 361 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:47,800 distributed on that job. So in May, June and April, well, 362 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,400 I only played like six or seven games, but that's a lot 363 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:59,480 actually. So I, I, I, I believe I have 364 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,400 played a game every fourth night since 2017. 365 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:10,800 So that would be like 26 games per year for seven years. 366 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:19,200 So that would probably be close to 200, perhaps 200, perhaps 367 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,040 150. But in, in, in that vicinity. 368 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,360 So I would say I have played the game a lot. 369 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:31,440 Yeah, yeah. And, and obviously, you know, 370 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:35,520 you, you make your decisions around like things to change in 371 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:41,120 terms of the, the lists, the armies around your experience, 372 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:44,560 direct experience of those games, I suppose. 373 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,360 When when you have decide the game and when you make the point 374 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:59,200 cost and when you play all arms it, it's you, you view the game 375 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,440 from a different angle and everyone else does. 376 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:08,840 So I actually find it more difficult to decide if something 377 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:14,200 is balanced or unbalanced or need to be tweaked because I 378 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,760 play everything. I had many more opinions about 379 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,680 the game and the balance of the game when I was just a a regular 380 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,760 player and I had not designed the game myself. 381 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,160 But nowadays I think the game is balanced. 382 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:37,920 Sometimes I discover minor flaw and then I fix it, but it's it's 383 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:43,080 really hard for me to try to make, you know, broken armies, 384 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:48,160 as we called them, trying to abuse the game because I know 385 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,200 what it intended to be like. And I know what I think is fun 386 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:55,160 to play as many opponents as possible. 387 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,640 And, and what's the different styles and the different 388 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,560 preferences. And sometimes I realise, oh, 389 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:07,520 this, this is a bad idea. But usually if if if it was a 390 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,480 bad idea it's it's because someone do something and then 391 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,920 choose it back it. Makes me think that one one of 392 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:19,120 the things that I like about the game is the fact that I mean it, 393 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,240 it does help a lot to read. You know it the rules in detail 394 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,320 and the army lists in detail. There are there are things in 395 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,000 people's armies that are quite powerful, but there's always a 396 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,120 way to deal with them. And the more you play, the more 397 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:39,400 you learn. And so it's quite enjoyable to 398 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,560 get better at the game and so start to realise, you know, the 399 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:48,760 way to deal with these things, that kind of learning process. 400 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,960 So yeah, I appreciate the kind of the stuff that looks maybe at 401 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:59,120 first glance quite over the top is actually totally, you know, 402 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:03,800 manageable once you once you've learned a bit more about the the 403 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,840 strengths of. The there's a well known 404 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,680 strategy in in Warhammer that's called fear and awe, where you 405 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:15,560 come up with something that is mightily impressive and the the 406 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,160 opponents say, Oh no, how am I ever going to deal with that? 407 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,120 How am I ever going to move the sting tank? 408 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:25,960 And if you're an experienced here, you know the limitation of 409 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,120 the steam tank and you know exactly how to wound it. 410 00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,120 And even even if you cannot wound it because you don't have 411 00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:36,200 the available tools, it's just try to avoid it or or divert it 412 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,000 with something or and and take care of the rest of his armies. 413 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,160 So it is, it is experience that matters more. 414 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,800 Yes, indeed. Yeah, agreed. 415 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,440 Yeah, OK. I've got a few questions from my 416 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,240 friends that I play with about your views on some of the armies 417 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,800 which I'm, you know, interested to hear your views on. 418 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:02,480 So first one is which of the army lists are you most proud 419 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,880 of? Revising or updating or 420 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:10,560 Renaissance if you have one. That's a that's a tough one. 421 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,040 But. Maybe it could be Britannia 422 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:24,960 because 5th edition it was not at all what I had hoped for or, 423 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,600 or what the old Britannia army was like. 424 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,120 So that was quite a disappointment. 425 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,560 It was, of course, the most competitive army ever. 426 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,280 Well, that's, that's until the listen man army king. 427 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,240 But it was really, really strong army. 428 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:45,120 But it, it was boring. So I, I tried to change the 429 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:49,920 Britannia army so you could play it more old school, so you could 430 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:55,320 play a third edition of me and also at the same time making it 431 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:59,160 possible for those who fell in love in the 5th edition, the 432 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,800 Heroic Britannia army to play that as well. 433 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,080 And you can see something of, of the same with the Woodolf army. 434 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,120 You can play an old school Woodolf army from that looks 435 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,800 like third edition and perhaps 4th and you can play the newer 436 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,480 wood Alf army that is a completely different army. 437 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,400 And do you have any view on like the strength of, I mean like I 438 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,640 imagine your intentions to keep them similar, but do you think 439 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,400 there's one or two armies that are stronger than others? 440 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,960 Yes, I would rather say there are some armies that are a bit 441 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,640 weaker. Of course, the small armies, 442 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:48,880 small fish and like Kisler or or or over kingdoms things, they 443 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,480 are not meant to be the best army that's out there. 444 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,880 Now when it comes to over kingdoms, I mean it's just 445 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,320 taking some ogres and then you can take something else. 446 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:06,920 But they they are not meant to be as wholesome as as as diverse 447 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,880 as, as the others. But I'm not aware that any army 448 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,440 should be weak or that if there should be any problems. 449 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,960 But I'm always open to to to hear other people suggest them. 450 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:29,480 OK, So what match up have you found the most interesting in 451 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,600 terms of the army that you're playing and your opponent's 452 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:32,960 army? Oh well. 453 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:42,680 I, I think what I like the most is it really has nothing 454 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,800 particular to do with the army or the the gameplay between the 455 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,880 armies. But when I realized that we have 456 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:56,360 just put two armies on the table, a beautiful table, well 457 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:03,400 painted armies and it is the I just both and both armies are 458 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,800 among the first that came out in in 4th edition. 459 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,280 I get this surge of nostalgia. So if it's orcs and goblins, 460 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:18,880 dwarfs, empire hiles, some of the very first armies that 461 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,520 appeared in White Dwarf and they are on the table that, that 462 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:29,120 gives a great feeling. More so undead chaos scaling 463 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:37,080 because it looks like the 90s. But I, I, I don't have any 464 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,880 favorite in, in, in game terms as such. 465 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,880 I like to be surprised. And usually when I play with, 466 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:52,520 with one of my mates who's also my neighbour, we always keep it 467 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,520 secret, which we come with. So it's always a surprise. 468 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,240 So that's also a great a great challenge. 469 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,760 When you meet the army, you don't know what he's going to 470 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,480 come up with, so it's always something of a surprise. 471 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,440 Oops. So last time it came with 472 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,000 Nagesh. Nagesh. 473 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,960 I should have taken that toughness 10 room. 474 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:23,120 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, some of these special 475 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,720 characters and similar types of things are quite fun to bring 476 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,040 along for the reaction that they have. 477 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,960 And it's so nice that in Renaissance, they they're kind 478 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:41,160 of more usable than they they were in the original army book. 479 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,000 Sometimes the points values are a bit more appropriate or the 480 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,680 the rules work a bit better. Yeah, I think that's something 481 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,520 that Josh has said several times about particularly say the 482 00:33:55,520 --> 00:34:00,000 dwarfs and some of their special characters that he appreciates 483 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,080 the ability to bring. We certainly have a lot of 484 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,560 interesting match ups we play in our occasional games days and 485 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,320 it's always fun to see what people bring. 486 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:18,320 I always have the the fun job of checking the lists and seeing 487 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:23,560 what interesting combination of magic items people have chosen. 488 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,960 And it's always interesting to see those combinations and items 489 00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:30,840 and what people's plans are with them. 490 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,679 So I was looking forward to seeing how people react to those 491 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,080 and always hope that they achieved throughout the aim that 492 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,000 they they intended. Often the these plans sort of 493 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,520 forward the first meeting of the enemy, then go quiet as they've 494 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:50,239 been intended. OK, is there any army that you 495 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,440 currently think isn't playing the way you had intended and 496 00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:01,400 maybe needs some revision? No, no, not as such. 497 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:07,720 There's only one army that is a bit problematical and that is 498 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:12,200 Lizardman. When the Lizardman army book 499 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:20,400 came out in 97 I believe and it was like it had no drawbacks and 500 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,360 it was it was good at everything. 501 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,880 These these there were cheap troops that were expensive troop 502 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,880 that but really good at fighting. 503 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,800 There were cheap characters, there were very, very hard 504 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,720 characters. There were strong magic. 505 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,680 There was dinosaurs. There were kind of war machines 506 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,840 and, and, and leadership wasn't an issue. 507 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,360 They would never panic. They would never break. 508 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,640 I mean, they, they were really, really good. 509 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:52,240 And when you compare to the point values, they were far too 510 00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:55,840 good. And in the beginning people were 511 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,040 making hammers like forced decadence with magic banners 512 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,720 coupled together and stuff like that. 513 00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:03,400 Before they said you couldn't do it. 514 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,320 That that had posed some problems for Warhammer 515 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,920 Renaissance because of course, listen, men should be there. 516 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:17,240 But where I have, I had the the possibility of actually 517 00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:22,680 improving all armies, some more than others, but all armies have 518 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,640 got some kind of improvement. And when people play these 519 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,720 armies, they often think, hey, these are great, this is great. 520 00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:32,840 This is better than it was back then. 521 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:36,040 And I like these rules and these changes and stuff like that. 522 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:41,840 But for lizard men, I had to change them to become worse. 523 00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:45,120 So I had to increase point cost. Yeah. 524 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,240 And when when when the next lizard men army came, they even 525 00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:51,880 got like scouts and then they had everything in the game. 526 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,560 And and that's that's why I don't like lizard men. 527 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,400 I don't like playing with them or against them because they 528 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:00,880 have everything. I mean, all armies should have 529 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,640 something they were good at, something they were bad at. 530 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,240 That should be that should be an issue that you should not have 531 00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:12,200 it all in in one army. And I think Lizard Men has that. 532 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:17,720 So it's not my favorite army, but I like the army book and the 533 00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:20,400 models and all that. But in game terms, it's not my 534 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,480 favorite army. Understood. 535 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:24,840 Yeah, I mean, it's one of the armies I'm least familiar with. 536 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:30,880 I think no one currently plays with Elizabeth in our group, and 537 00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,160 in fact, when they first came out, I think I'd already stopped 538 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,440 playing the game, so I never really had any experience. 539 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,480 But what you say sounds kind of familiar. 540 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,960 That's what others have said. A little bit of an exercise to 541 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:48,560 to bring them into a line to align with other other factions, 542 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,480 which you have done great. I look forward to seeing them. 543 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,000 But yeah, I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of those. 544 00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:00,560 OK. So one thing that I think is 545 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,480 interesting is your occasional references, both on Facebook and 546 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,520 in the forwards to Renaissance about the old World, which is 547 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:16,280 obviously something that wasn't a thing back in 2017 when you 548 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,600 started this project or even in 2020 when you last spoke to Josh 549 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,480 on this podcast. But it is now. 550 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,080 So have you had any experience with it? 551 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:29,240 Have you got any interest in playing it or is is it something 552 00:38:29,240 --> 00:38:34,320 you don't think you'll be doing? Look, I have to admit that I've 553 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:39,920 never played it. I was very happy when they said 554 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:44,280 they would return the Old World and all the updates about the 555 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:46,040 game. I think that sounded really good 556 00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:50,200 and I am very happy they have brought the game around and I 557 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:55,440 bought it and I have read it and I intend to play it, but I don't 558 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,120 feel particularly enthusiastic about it now. 559 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,440 I, I really don't want to criticize the game or Games 560 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,280 Workshop. It's, it's really my policy 561 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,720 because I like that they are redoing the game and it's games 562 00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:12,360 worship that have brought me all these things that I like and I 563 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:17,240 would not, I don't want to encourage people to do games 564 00:39:17,240 --> 00:39:20,040 worship or old world bashing in our Facebook group. 565 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,440 I'm really not interested in that. 566 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,880 That's that's why the positive tone all the time. 567 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,520 Yeah. But when I look at the game it 568 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:35,240 seems a bit flat to me. I really don't have much to to 569 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:37,520 say about it because I haven't tried it yet so no one should 570 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:45,400 take my opinion seriously. But the the units seem of and 571 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:50,600 the armies seem more similar to each other than they did in the 572 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,880 90s. There were more different armies 573 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:57,160 with more different capabilities in the 90s that than these army. 574 00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,720 Many of them looks very much the same. 575 00:39:59,720 --> 00:40:05,880 And the array of special rules is really, really large. 576 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,720 And it looks very much like 8 edition or perhaps 9 edition in 577 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:12,800 in all these special rules that connect with each other. 578 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,600 And I think when you have a special rule. 579 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,760 It should matter when you have a special rule. 580 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,760 It should be something that changed the game. 581 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,120 But half of the special rules in one of the old world is 582 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:30,040 something that you can re roll A1 in case of something. 583 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:36,400 So I don't know how it works in reality, so don't ask me about 584 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,440 that, but it it it doesn't seem quite inspiring. 585 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:45,240 And I'm, I've always, I have always something else to do than 586 00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:50,320 actually trying to read the rules, make some notes, make 587 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,480 some armies, try to find time to play it. 588 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,000 There's always something else more fun I can do. 589 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,760 But I will do it at some point. And I'm very, very happy that 590 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,080 they are returning to the old world, even though it's a a 591 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,200 little more boring than it used to be. 592 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,880 It's just heroic good stuff. Not not so much fun as it was in 593 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,040 the 80s and 90s, but it's still there and it's recognizable. 594 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,920 And they're bringing back miniatures and they are bringing 595 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,440 back some of the old miniatures. And I'm absolutely thrilled. 596 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,760 They're bringing back the old Marauder Spearman from 88 or 597 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:30,760 something like that. They're bringing, actually, 598 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,600 they're bringing back Mars from 86. 599 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,840 This is great. And yeah, they cost a lot, but 600 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:43,680 you know, that only reassures me that my miniature collection is 601 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,880 really my savings because I don't know any real estate. 602 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:53,400 So I've got miniatures instead. Sell these miniatures at those 603 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,840 prices. I would be a rich man when I get 604 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:57,800 old. Yeah. 605 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,240 I mean, that's, Yeah, I can't disagree with that. 606 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,200 Yeah, that seems to be quite a common theme. 607 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,400 A lot of people have got quite a, you know, a large amount of 608 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:16,120 money invested in big piles of LED from the 1980s and 90s. 609 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,880 But yeah, it's, it's interesting. 610 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,680 Yeah. I, I likewise, I kind of look 611 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:26,560 forward to see what else they release. 612 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,720 I haven't bought anything from that range yet. 613 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,000 Nothing's quite taken my fancy, but that the more they, the more 614 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,400 they do that, the better. Yeah. 615 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,840 I'd love to see some other things in due course. 616 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,600 It's somewhat annoying that everything is sold out all the 617 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,080 time. So that's one reason I if I 618 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,480 can't get the models I want, if I can't get the books I want, it 619 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,680 takes some of my my enthusiasm away. 620 00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:57,800 I try to place an order all the time and I don't care about 621 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,360 money, just take my money. They won't. 622 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,760 So it's it's really hard to to to set yourself up from from 623 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,800 gaming because you cannot get the models you want. 624 00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,440 You cannot get the rule books you want. 625 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,840 So but. In time I'll get it the the 626 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,280 promise they'll they'll get it back online at some time. 627 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,320 Yeah. Well, how they ought to. 628 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:25,800 Let's see what happens with that. 629 00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,360 Yeah, but it's certainly interesting times with that 630 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,120 because clearly like a lot of people have come back to 631 00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,440 Warhammer, perhaps that had gone elsewhere and now there seems to 632 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,320 be a bit of a movement where we are. 633 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,360 Certainly there was a lot of people that were playing eight 634 00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:47,240 and they've entirely moved across to the old world as you'd 635 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:53,400 expect given that it's kind of a sort of a natural successor to 636 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,800 that. What I understand being no 637 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,080 expert myself in in either of those two rule sets. 638 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:01,480 But like, I think something you mentioned in the foreword was 639 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,200 the fact that there seems to be no magic phase, which is 640 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:07,320 interesting because one thing I think there's always been until 641 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:12,000 now is a magic phase in, in, even in, even in 3rd edition 642 00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,200 that would be very, very different to anything else. 643 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,000 But not yet apparently no magic phase. 644 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,120 And that's a bit disappointing maybe, I think, for a lot of 645 00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:24,120 people. Well, that's still magic in 646 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,480 there and matters. Magic matters a lot. 647 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,000 You just cast the spells in the relevant phase. 648 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,280 So if you have a moment spell, you cast it in the moment phase 649 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,680 and so on. Back in 2017, when I was 650 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:40,400 contemplating, contemplating, yeah, considering to make my own 651 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:45,240 game from scratch and not just warm up, but an entirely new 652 00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:49,160 game, I thought about magic should take place in the 653 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,280 relevant phase. So if it was something that 654 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,640 would enhance shooting, you should do it in the shooting 655 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,240 phase and stuff like that. And there were actually several 656 00:44:57,240 --> 00:45:00,240 ideas that they put into one of the old world that I had 657 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:02,160 considered. And I thought, hey, this could 658 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:06,040 be good, but in the end I decided no, I want to play the 659 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,440 old game, I just want to make it to function. 660 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,560 Yeah, yeah. I mean there's a lot of sense in 661 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,400 that I suppose. I think the people that have 662 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:21,640 commented or criticised it sort of note the, you know, the magic 663 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:26,480 phase always typically had a sort of an element of, you know, 664 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,160 resource kind of management or, you know, the idea that you 665 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,520 would try and put all of your sort of power dice or cart into 666 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,680 one thing and or alternatively spread it around a bit. 667 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:41,120 And that kind of made for an interesting game within a game. 668 00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,680 But I mean, I don't think it's the best thing about Warhammer. 669 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,280 So I certainly don't wouldn't be the reason I wouldn't play the 670 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,360 old world, but this one. But just an interesting 671 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:55,240 observation that it's it's changed a bit. 672 00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:02,560 OK, So is it the case that we can now we can still only 673 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:05,840 download one Renaissance on Facebook? 674 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,280 Yeah, it's only available in in the Facebook group. 675 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,160 If someone wants to host the game, they're here. 676 00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,480 Very welcome. Everyone can do that. 677 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:22,400 It's just just take it. That's, I know I have no 678 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,360 completion of interest in, in, in this and there's a huge 679 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:30,600 community there and I want to keep them, keep the community at 680 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,080 one place. So Facebook group is fine for 681 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,640 me. My only worry is that Facebook 682 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,480 seems to be slightly deteriorating. 683 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:42,640 It gets less and less relevant and someday we may not use 684 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,640 Facebook anymore. Then we we need another 685 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,440 platform, but it works for now. Sure. 686 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,120 Yeah, agreed. OK. 687 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:56,280 And then I think my final question really is what, how do 688 00:46:56,280 --> 00:47:01,000 you see Warhammer Renaissance in the future? 689 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:08,440 I see very little chance Warhammer Renaissance is very 690 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:14,560 fixed and it's not going to expand because it just it's aim 691 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:19,680 is to revive the old stuff. So everything from the 80s, 692 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,880 everything from the 90s and a few odd stuff from later 693 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,920 editions. And I think we have it all 694 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,560 covered. And it's, it's a game for those 695 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:35,120 who want to play Warhammer as it should have been back then. 696 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:41,960 So I'm I'm not going to to change it and it's just going to 697 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:46,880 be around all forever. I think as, as I mentioned 698 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,800 earlier, perhaps a numeric items, perhaps something will be 699 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:55,400 priced different, perhaps some optional rules for army 700 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,280 selection or something like that if if you're into that. 701 00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:02,800 But that that would be it. Clarifications is the main thing 702 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,280 and you can always make more clarifications. 703 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,680 And we're on to that, Nick, so. Yeah. 704 00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,280 Well, no changes. I mean, I don't think it needs, 705 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,160 you know, any changes. It's nice that, you know, it's 706 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,920 nice that they come. But like, you know, we can, we 707 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,240 can play it as it is. So you know, and you know, it's, 708 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,720 it's, it's kind of done, but there's always things you can 709 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,760 tweet. So I'm happy, I'm happy as long 710 00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,040 as you keep it available to download. 711 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,760 But it's going to be there, isn't it? 712 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,040 Be it on Facebook or some replacement to Facebook in the 713 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,960 future. All right, well, thank you very 714 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,240 much for your time today. For all of the listeners you 715 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:49,240 know, I recommend strongly that they download the rules on 716 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,560 Facebook for One Renaissance and give it a go. 717 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:58,400 It's a great game and join the group of people. 718 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:05,280 That play it, and I look forward to our continuous cooperation on 719 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:09,680 improving those rules and making them as clear as possible. 720 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,640 Yeah, definitely. All right. 721 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:14,960 Thanks very much. Bye.