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Hello, welcome back to the Crown
of Commands. 

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This is Josh, your host, and 
thank you again for tuning in to

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another episode, a cracking one 
with the Terrace Cassidy from 

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Geek Nation Tours. 
And yeah, Terrace has been 

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somebody I had listened to way 
back on the D 6th Generation and

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Maples and Miniatures. 
He did an epic show there with 

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Mike the the great late Mike 
Hobbs as well. 

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And I really wanted to get him 
on because I know he takes 

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frequent trips to Japan every 
year, taking people over to to 

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walk the battlefields or to 
visit certain locations and 

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places in Japan and other places
around the world as well that 

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has sort of relevance to geek 
culture or historical 

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battlefields or whatever it 
might be. 

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And you know, I know that 
Terrace really liked Epic Space 

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Marine as well. 
So I really wanted to, you know,

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invoke some nostalgic memories 
from Terrace about his days 

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playing Epic Space Marine. 
And and I hope you really 

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enjoyed this interview. 
I really enjoyed talking to 

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Terrace and I, I hope to bring 
him back to go through his first

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White Dwarf magazines at some 
time in the future. 

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And I just wanted to send out an
apology. 

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I don't know if anybody has 
looked on my YouTube channel or 

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through Patreon for my patrons 
and it's a public post. 

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Anyway, you can listen to that. 
But basically just an apology to

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say that the last three podcasts
that I did, and it's mainly 

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apology to you, the listeners 
and to the guests that came on. 

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The audio quality wasn't really 
good at all and it was just me 

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experimenting with recording 
through Discord and I didn't 

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really know how or what I was 
doing that it, you know the 

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reasons why the the quality was 
bad. 

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It was that I didn't realize 
that the sound was recording 

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through the speakers of my PC 
rather than it recording 

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internally through a channel, 
through Garage Band, which is 

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the program I was recording it 
on. 

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So I want to say apology to you 
guys, the listeners, and to the 

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guests that came on in the last 
three podcasts for that. 

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And now we're I've resorted back
to Zoom, which I'm recording 

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with Terrace on today, which 
means that we've got a much more

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stable audio connection here. 
And it's just an overall better 

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experience for the listener, as 
I'm sure you'll be seeing there 

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painting your models or in the 
car commuting, whatever you do 

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when you listen to the Chronic 
Command. 

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And because it's a big 
responsibility for me, because, 

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yeah, there are a lot of lot of 
people downloading, listening to

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the Chronic Command, which is 
really incredible to me. 

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When I look at some of the stats
just for Spotify, it's quite a 

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lot of downloads, and that's not
taking into account for all the 

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other applications like Apple 
Podcasts and that kind of thing,

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which take up the lion's share 
of the listenership of the 

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podcast. 
So yeah, big thank you. 

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To big thank you to you out 
there who are downloading and 

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listening and enjoying each 
show. 

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And I hope to bring more and 
more interviews to you with 

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these amazing people in our 
community out there and with 

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their stories to share. 
And I get to meet them and learn

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about their experiences and you 
do too, which is wonderful. 

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So we have that and I hope I 
have an update for the Call of 

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the Crown with our friend GJ 
over in the Forces of Fantasy 

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Podcast. 
If you haven't checked out The 

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Forces of Fantasy Podcast, I 
urge you to do it. 

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G JS Course, The Voice of the 
War Games Orchard and has that 

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sort of dissolved. 
GJ went on to his own podcast 

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and formed it himself and has 
his own YouTube channel now and 

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also a patron which I follow to 
get the bonus content, videos 

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and audio and that kind of thing
as well. 

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And GJ does a great job in 
serving the community for things

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like first edition, second 
edition Warhammer that he's 

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currently reviewing in his 
podcast shows and videos and 

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doing 5th edition battle 
reports. 

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I really want to encourage GJ 
along there. 

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And he's also running and I'm 
doing. 

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I'm not doing much about running
the painting challenge, but this

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year he really wanted to do the 
Call of the Crown Three, so 

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that's really wonderful. 
That and seeing the results of 

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people submitting their entries 
for that, which is awesome to 

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see from the community, people 
getting involved in painting 

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their miniatures and cutting 
through that lead pile and 

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hopefully playing some games 
with those miniatures once 

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they're finished. 
So they're really the brief sort

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of things I wanted to touch on 
before we get to the interview 

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with terrorists. 
But also in in just final 

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thoughts, I do also post a poll 
on my YouTube channel talking 

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about the content that will be 
coming probably you know soon as

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in changes that might happen in 
terms of bad reports and the 

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length of videos, the type of 
content that will be coming. 

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And in the form that will be 
coming in, I have to reform it a

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little bit because of time 
restraints. 

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Because, you know, if you think 
about a game that might take 4 

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hours on average, so maybe 
that's three hours of footage, 

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then I've got to go through and 
edit that. 

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That's another three to four to 
five hours of editing because 

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you need to watch everything and
then cut out things or, you 

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know, add screen titles, all 
that kind of stuff That takes up

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a lot of time, which I don't 
really have at this stage, which

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is crazy because you think that 
I'm working from home now. 

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I'm painting as a commissioned 
painter for every lead studios, 

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which is wonderful. 
It's my dream job. 

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But of course that takes up a 
lot of my time during the day. 

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And then editing is kind of 
reserved for the free time that 

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I have and of course that chews 
into my family time. 

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So I've got to make a balance 
between how many, how many hours

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I can dedicate to, you know, 
doing a bad report, how many, 

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how many. 
And if it's just a small video, 

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which I'm doing more and more 
these days, very small light 

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videos which seem to be popular,
which is good, people seem to 

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interact more with those, which 
is nice to hear because it's 

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about certain publications like 
a catalogue, introduction to 

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Games Workshop, one of the books
that I'm, you know, reviewing or

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something on the channel. 
And it sort of evokes more of a 

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response from people, which is 
nice. 

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I like to hear you know, and 
communicate with people on 

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YouTube because it's one of the 
primary sources of, you know, 

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getting correspondence with my 
listenership and viewership on 

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there. 
And it's always nice to hear 

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people's stories about how they 
got into Games Workshop or their

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reflections on one of the 
publications I'm viewing on the 

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channel. 
So that's basically a round up. 

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My good friend Khan FX in Sydney
isn't with me today, but we are 

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talking about coming back with a
beer community show and going 

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through all of that. 
So maybe G JS segment will be in

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there, I'm not really sure as 
yet. 

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So if it doesn't happen at the 
end, I'm really sorry GJ, but 

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we'll include it at some point. 
And getting yeah, things back on

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track, basically, and finding a 
good balance between, yeah, the 

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time I spend editing and and 
recording and filming and all 

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that kind of thing, And still 
having time for family time and 

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still having time to do my 
regular day job. 

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So guys, thanks for hanging in 
there with us and I really 

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appreciate your support, your 
comments, your feedback. 

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That's really important. 
The feedback's really essential 

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to know how things are going 
because in some cases I don't 

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hear anything and you're sort of
just speaking to avoid and you 

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don't know what if you're doing 
things right, if you're not 

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doing things right. 
So yeah, if you need to let me 

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know and correspond with me, you
can always contact me at the 

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crown of 
commandpodcast@gmail.com or at 

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abbyled@gmail.com. 
There's two ways of getting in 

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touch with me or through our 
Discord and the links of those 

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will be in the show notes and 
I'll also include the link for 

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Terraces Geek Nation tours in 
there as well. 

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It's something you should go and
check out. 

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If you're thinking about going 
on a a Geek tour, then Terrace 

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has that all sorted for you. 
He's a professional who's been 

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in the business now for 13 years
doing this and I really hope you

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enjoy this interview, especially
if you're like Epic Space 

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Marine, you're going to 
absolutely love it because we're

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going to talk a lot about that. 
OK, OK guys, well, without 

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further ado I'll let you go into
the interview and enjoy and take

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care. 
See you again next time. 

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Thanks again mate for coming on 
to the Chronicle Man podcast 

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that you're you're a voice that 
maybe some people might remember

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from the D 6th generation 
because you were quite prolific 

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on there. 
You you you came on several 

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times it's like a third chair or
talking about your geek nation 

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tours and things you were doing 
actively taking people around 

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the world in search of geekdom, 
whether it be the UK or Japan 

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all over the world. 
So it's it's an amazing kind of 

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business. 
You started doing that and I 

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thought I'd bring you on because
I know you love Epic Space 

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Marine and it's a game close to 
my heart. 

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But as I can see in the 
background, you're heavily 

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involved with many other 
projects as well, and it's in 

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quite a credible gaming room you
got there. 

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Yeah, thank you. 
That's Ghost Recapellico right 

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there and prostate there. 
And for there's a whole bunch of

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40 gig stuff back there and of 
course some epic stuff. 

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Wow mate, that's that's like a 
it's almost like a museum or 

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game store you've got there. 
Basically. 

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Like it's nothing compared to my
little small 4 little space in 

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my house in Japan. 
Here it's tiny. 

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Oh well, Japan. 
It's almost impossible in Japan 

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for a while, by the way. 
I did, yeah. 

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Yeah, Where are you at? 
I'm in MiTo, Ibaraki Prefecture,

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so it's about 100 clicks north 
of the northeast of Tokyo. 

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OK, I I lived in Almori, so I 
lived in North Northern. 

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Wow, that's more almost like 
Canada then mate. 

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So freezing. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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Well, I actually did. 
I did a summer session in 

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Sapporo, so it's even further. 
Oh wow, from university I went 

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to in Hokkaido. 
Yeah, nice. 

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Hokodai is where I Okodai. 
OK Oh. 

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Yeah, I loved it there. 
Yeah. 

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Got a Really. 
Good place in my heart. 

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I love going back so. 
I love going there. 

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So excellent. 
It's good, man. 

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Yeah. 
So how did how did all this 

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start Terrace had it like in 
terms of like gaming like if and

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you're from Canada, I take it. 
Yeah you've always you're born 

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and bred in Canada. 
How to dual gaming sort of 

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career sort of blossom, man. 
Sure. 

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I think it started with my 
interest in Dungeons and 

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Dragons. 
When I was young, I got the 

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Dungeons and Dragons, the 
Monster Manual. 

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And I brought it home. 
I was really into monsters back 

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there, 11 years old. 
So I was just into monsters of 

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any sort, Greek mythology, that 
kind of thing. 

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And I brought it home and I 
realized it was a game. 

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I had no idea when I bought it 
that it was a game. 

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I thought it was more of a just 
a kind of a thing, a description

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of monsters. 
And I was like, wait, you can 

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play it in this world? 
And then then from there. 

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That's how I got into 
role-playing. 

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And then from role-playing, I 
got, I did miniatures for 

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role-playing, and then a friend 
of mine in university actually 

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introduced me into Epic. 
So Epic was my first throwaway 

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into miniature war gaming. 
Well, that's quite unusual. 

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I don't think many people could 
say that really to. 

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I'm one of the few, yeah. 
Epic was, I think, really. 

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I mean, I got I I had some 40K 
miniatures back in the day and 

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but we never really played. 
I played a little bit of of 

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Rogue Trader, but that actually 
brought up. 

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I paid Rogue Trader after I 
played Epic. 

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Yeah, so so yeah, I I played 
Epic. 

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Then I moved to Vancouver and I 
basically was living at the GW 

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store on Water St. in Vancouver 
and playing Epic every once in a

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while. 
So yeah, some cool stories. 

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Amazing. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah. 
So you you started playing was 

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it Space Marine or Epic Space 
like the OH? 

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So it would have been 1st 
edition or second edition. 

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Yeah, it would have been Space 
Marine. 

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Yeah. 
Wow. 

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Yeah. 
So with the foam buildings and 

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the old warlords and the whole 
bit, yeah. 

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00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,680
So yeah, it started with just 
like it is now with GW Legion on

226
00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,560
Legion. 
So that's right, Yeah. 

227
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,400
Yeah. 
So it's it's kind of, it's nice 

228
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,960
to see GW going back and doing 
it over again. 

229
00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,400
It's because I'm, I'm actually 
quite excited about it. 

230
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,080
I've been doing, as I said, I'm 
doing Frost Grave for a long 

231
00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:22,040
time, skirmish stuff for 
probably 10 years or so, Seven 

232
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:26,200
anyway, for sure. 
And I really transitioned kind 

233
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,120
of out of 40K into a skirmish. 
It just became a little bit too 

234
00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,400
much game for me. 
Not that I I I mean I spent a 

235
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:39,120
lot of time with. 40K and I love
my stint with 40K, but I think 

236
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,880
it was becoming too much for me 
and so I've transitioned into 

237
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,040
into skirmish games and 
Frostgrave in particular. 

238
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,120
And yeah, it'll be good to get 
back into AGW game, actually. 

239
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,240
So yeah, I think I, I bought 
something from GW for the first 

240
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,080
time and I think about 25 years,
and that was the Road Trader 

241
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:01,720
Print on demand copy mates. 
Oh really? 

242
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,240
First thing I've got excited 
about. 

243
00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:06,840
That's cool. 
That's you know that Road Trader

244
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:12,120
is. 
We played it for hours like so 

245
00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,160
many. 
I remember something really good

246
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:20,880
awesome times playing Rd. 
Trader and but with never 

247
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,520
getting a resolution never never
finishing a game. 

248
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,440
I don't think I finished one 
game of Rd. 

249
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,600
Trader. 
Because it was so complex and 

250
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,400
hard and, you know, everybody's 
got their own individual 

251
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,720
weapons. 
And yeah, I mean, it was good. 

252
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,680
It's, it was good times. 
But I don't think I ever 

253
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,680
finished a game of Rogue Trader.
Just an afternoon. 

254
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,680
I finished an afternoon of Rogue
Trader, but not a game of Rogue 

255
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,720
Trader. 
Yeah, it's funny, I was looking 

256
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,120
through one of the walk books, 
The free. 

257
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,440
I think it's the Here We Go book
with the golf list in it and 

258
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,840
it's got like under Goths, like 
the boys. 

259
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,440
It's got like you can you can 
upgrade to scar boys and each 

260
00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,400
scar boy can have one of their 
characteristics up by 1:00. 

261
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,280
And you need to do for all of 
the scar boys and I think you 

262
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,000
only have about 3 or 4 or 
whatever, but each one can have 

263
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:07,760
a different characteristic 
upgraded. 

264
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,960
So you'd have to write on the 
bases or something to say, you 

265
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,720
know, like weapon skill plus 
one, BS plus one. 

266
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,200
It's impossible. 
I have the. 

267
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:18,800
I have. 
I don't know if I have the. 

268
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,720
I have the Freebooters book, not
I don't. 

269
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:22,640
It's a classic one. 
Yeah. 

270
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,320
Freebooters one, right? 
Yeah. 

271
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,640
Yeah, I didn't. 
But I played Eldar back then, 

272
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,600
like that's how that's my my 
stick. 

273
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:35,240
So even when they had the 
Harlequins back in the day 

274
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,760
that's I think those might have 
been, that might have been my 

275
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:43,680
first box set that I bought from
GW old Metal Harlequins back in 

276
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:48,800
the day. 
Yeah, I mean, those times were 

277
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,760
great too. 
The the amount of cool 

278
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,640
miniatures and then, you know, 
the the toilet paper, toilet 

279
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:57,240
pizza. 
Great. 

280
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,800
Yeah. 
You know, just just just a 

281
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,800
classic diamond hobby. 
The silos that, Yeah, the 

282
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,600
Kleenex silos on the table. 
The Kleenex. 

283
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,400
Silos and everything. 
Yeah, it's a great time. 

284
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,960
You get the toilet papers like 
tops or something to put over 

285
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:19,800
top of them and the. 
Roll right. 

286
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:27,680
That's how you get that roller, 
is the, is the Yeah, those those

287
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,000
were really awesome times and 
all those. 

288
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,440
Kits like the Space Marine, the 
first Space Marine plastic kit, 

289
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,560
I remember we were so excited to
get that. 

290
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,680
But if you look back on it now, 
it's like wow, that was that was

291
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,360
comparatively like back in the 
day it was awesome. 

292
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,880
But comparatively now you're 
like wow, this is not the same 

293
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,520
Space Marine as this one. 
So it's it's a, it's a it's an 

294
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,280
interesting it's a cool thing to
be to be kind of part of history

295
00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:02,280
in in in in. 
Yeah, in in that whole thing. 

296
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,480
It was it was a it was a cool 
time to to be there, yeah. 

297
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:12,880
But it was funny because I got a
great what were we playing? 

298
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,520
We we were playing Epic, I'm 
pretty sure. 

299
00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:21,599
Yeah, we were playing Epic at 
the GW store on Water St. in 

300
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,240
Vancouver. 
Which is basically downtown. 

301
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,680
I don't know if you've ever been
there, but there's this kind of 

302
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:32,840
old, old style cobblestone road 
right in downtown, downtown cool

303
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,360
steam clocks and just a really 
kind of a hip area, cool area. 

304
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:38,840
And that's where the GW story 
used to be. 

305
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,360
So we were there hanging out at 
night and we would play games 

306
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:48,840
with the, with the, with the 
manager late into night and you 

307
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,960
know, we'd close the doors and 
and and we would game. 

308
00:17:53,080 --> 00:18:00,600
And so it was dark out and it 
was so it was late and and the 

309
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,240
door kind of jingled and we're 
like, Oh no, someone's coming 

310
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:04,560
in. 
We didn't forgot to lock the 

311
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,120
door. 
And Robin Williams and Kirsten 

312
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:15,280
Dunst walk in and we're like, he
says can I can I come in and 

313
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,440
play? 
Yeah, it was really cool. 

314
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,880
So they're filming Jumanji, I 
believe. 

315
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,920
So it's been a while about that.
And then they walked in and and 

316
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,400
he was like, yeah, those are so 
cool. 

317
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,320
And he was. 
And he started to make, you 

318
00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:37,360
know, machine gun noises. 
Yeah, explosions and it. 

319
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,520
And we're like, what the heck is
going on here, you know? 

320
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,040
And Kirsten, she was probably, I
don't know, 12 at the time. 

321
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,080
She was like, what is Robin 
doing? 

322
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,560
And I think maybe it was her mom
or handler or maid or whatever. 

323
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,120
And yeah, so he hanging out for 
about 20 minutes and then he 

324
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,080
just left. 
Wow. 

325
00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:57,680
Amazing. 
Yeah. 

326
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,480
The good old, late Robin 
Williams. 

327
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:03,160
He was a gamer himself, wasn't 
he? 

328
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:04,560
He played a lot, yeah. 
Absolutely, yeah. 

329
00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,320
That's why he wanted to come in 
to hang out with. 

330
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,840
Yeah, amazing, isn't it? 
Yeah. 

331
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,280
So that was also kind of back in
the day. 

332
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,240
I think that was after I came 
back from Japan the first time. 

333
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,840
So 919293 somewhere around 
there. 

334
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,720
What? 
What took you to Japan, mate? 

335
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,240
What was the reason why you went
over there? 

336
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,440
I've always been interested in 
Japanese culture, so always from

337
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:33,440
from Wolverine, Frank Miller's 
Wolverine to Shogun, from Gevel 

338
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:40,280
and and then into Zen Buddhism. 
And my university degree is East

339
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,000
Asian Studies, focusing on 
feudal Japan and Japanese 

340
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,160
religion and. 
Right. 

341
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,160
Yeah. 
And so I did a stint at Summer 

342
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,080
Session in Okaido University and
then I went back and talked. 

343
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,000
And then I've been back like a 
lot, probably 6-7 times. 

344
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,920
And you, why are you there? 
And a big story. 

345
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,440
For the women, the food and the 
booze. 

346
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,200
OK, that's cool. 
Completely. 

347
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,320
Yes, I understand. 
I met my wife and I came over. 

348
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,960
Yeah, we decided, yeah, she 
wanted to come to Australia and 

349
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,680
I thought, well I've just been 
living in Australia for like you

350
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,160
know, 30 odd years. 
I want to come and do to Japan 

351
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,560
and and live here for a while. 
So we we decided to live here 

352
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,640
and then you know, 10 years 
later we're still here. 

353
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,360
So and it's wonderful, it's a 
great place. 

354
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,480
Yeah, it's it's a it's very 
quiet. 

355
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,200
If you're looking for a very 
quiet sort of, you know, 

356
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,520
environment where I am, it's at 
the sticks kind of thing. 

357
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:41,480
But yeah, it's an exciting place
for especially for young people.

358
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,480
Like if I discovered Japan when 
I was like 20, I mean, I would 

359
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,080
have stayed here since then, I 
think. 

360
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,040
I don't think I would have gone 
anywhere else. 

361
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,640
I would have completely fell in 
love with the place and stayed 

362
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,960
here long term. 
I mean, even back in the day 

363
00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:01,560
when I when I first went there, 
that would have been in 1990 and

364
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,440
Tokyo. 
The the the Olympics had just 

365
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,480
been, I don't know when the 
Olympics actually were. 

366
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,120
But Tokyo had been completely 
revitalized from the Olympics 

367
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:14,920
and it was like it was like 
landing in Blade Runner back in 

368
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,000
the day. 
It was like, Oh my God, there's 

369
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:21,360
it is so futuristic here, the 
motorcycles and the and 

370
00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:23,200
Akiyabara and everything like 
that. 

371
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:28,920
But I don't think it's actually.
For young people, I don't think 

372
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,240
it's actually kind of come down.
It's keeps on its high is still 

373
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:39,240
there like if so if you go to 
Studio Ghibli or still is 

374
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,560
awesome place to go to and 
there's so many other places in 

375
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:48,080
Japan that are just so cool. 
Yeah you got you got you got 

376
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,680
your cultural interest. 
If you want to go there 

377
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,800
culturally, look at traditional 
stuff, historic stuff, which is 

378
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,200
so I love doing. 
I love going to the old shrines 

379
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,600
and that kind of thing. 
I feel really at peace in those 

380
00:21:58,600 --> 00:21:59,760
places. 
I just think, you know, wow, 

381
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,400
they're really sort of mystical 
places. 

382
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,560
Even the one that's down the 
road in my local one, it's like 

383
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,200
you're just surrounded by these 
huge cedar trees and you're in 

384
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,560
the presence of this building 
that's been standing there for 

385
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,120
like 2000 years, which I'm just 
in awe of. 

386
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:17,000
Like just looking at the 
discoloration on the roof tiles,

387
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,000
everything about it, it's like 
you're just stepping into some, 

388
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,720
you're stepping in back in time 
kind of thing. 

389
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,600
I love that, that presence those
places have. 

390
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,880
It's something, it's really sort
of untouched kind of thing and 

391
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,240
part of their history, which is 
lovely. 

392
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,680
We don't have anything like that
in Australia, you know. 

393
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,560
Oh yeah, same with Canada. 
And and I agree, I it's that 

394
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,680
those places just like you know 
the kind of the spirits there, 

395
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,080
right? 
You know and they know how to. 

396
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,600
Not capture the spirit because 
that that that implies that 

397
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:55,920
something's captured, but to 
maybe focus the spirit like that

398
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,920
air that places mean something 
in Japan, you know? 

399
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,560
And what's amazing about that is
that you can do the same thing 

400
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,240
in Tokyo. 
Like you can go to a Shinto 

401
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,680
shrine or a Buddhist temple in 
Tokyo and you walk off of the 

402
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,400
busy super hyper busy streets 
and into one of these shrines. 

403
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,720
And it changes everything. 
Like it, it's like you're don't 

404
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,720
even you're not even in a city 
anymore and you might even feel 

405
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,880
like you're in fall. 
Like I remember walking into a 

406
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,720
Shinto shrine in Japan and it 
all the leaves were were 

407
00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,360
manicured to look like they were
in fall. 

408
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,320
But it was summer and I swear 
the temperature went down like 

409
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,200
12 degrees when I walked into 
this place because it just had 

410
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:48,000
that. 
Vibe that really cool history, 

411
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:54,960
but also just this power. 
Yeah, yeah, I think people have 

412
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,480
to experience. 
I think everybody who's come to 

413
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,480
Japan that I've known have 
really enjoyed it and come away,

414
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,400
come feeling they've had a 
really good experience. 

415
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,160
Like it is a different culture. 
It is a different, you know, 

416
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,800
different place you're you're 
stepping into. 

417
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,800
It's not like anything you're 
familiar with. 

418
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,280
So I think that's why people 
fall in love with it and they, 

419
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:12,480
you know, they want to keep 
coming back like yourself. 

420
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:14,240
So that's great. 
Yeah. 

421
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:15,360
Yeah, there's. 
Nothing. 

422
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:16,600
You want to visit me next time, 
mate? 

423
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:17,920
Come and visit me near Baraki 
next. 

424
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:18,240
Time. 
Yeah. 

425
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,280
OK, I will. 
Well, I'm actually going to be 

426
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:25,720
in Tokyo in April, right? 
So maybe I will come and visit. 

427
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,840
I don't know. 
That sounds good. 

428
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:28,800
You'll place a space right, 
mate. 

429
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,760
Yeah that's that would be epic 
if we played epic. 

430
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,880
But yeah, sorry, we are getting 
we totally there was a that's 

431
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:44,720
good. 
I'm I'm blessed that not 

432
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,680
everybody has a game room like 
this in Canada. 

433
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,440
So we have do we do have a lots 
of space though, So there is a 

434
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:54,240
lot of places that have gaming 
space in their own homes. 

435
00:24:54,880 --> 00:25:04,600
So this is like I said I'm 
blessed so, so I love it And my 

436
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,040
my wife is very kind to me. 
So yeah, mine too, mate. 

437
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:10,760
Mine too. 
She she gave me this room. 

438
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,240
It was a blessing for me at my 
man cave. 

439
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,200
I can run away and hide into and
long into the night. 

440
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,680
Yeah, absolutely. 
That's good day, mate. 

441
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:23,600
Yeah. 
So that's great. 

442
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,000
So you're still actively 
involved in the hobby, which is 

443
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,800
great. 
It's it's sort of something that

444
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,120
you picked up, you know, way 
back in the day and then you 

445
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:32,600
sort of left and came back to so
that you always seem to be 

446
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,640
actively involved in hobby in 
some sense, either through 

447
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,600
physically, you know, playing 
games or taking people on these 

448
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,400
trips through Geek Nation tours.
How did that all start, mate? 

449
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:49,640
Geek Nation tours, the 2009 
recession. 

450
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,960
I had two travel agencies, so I 
was taking holidays. 

451
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,000
I was summer. 
I wasn't working anymore. 

452
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,200
I was letting my staff work. 
And then the recession hit 

453
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:03,000
really bad. 
And of of course, there no one's

454
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,800
traveling during a recession. 
So I asked my staff if they 

455
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:14,760
wanted to work the summer or to 
have it off without pay, and 

456
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,040
they, to my chagrin, said we'll 
have it off without pay. 

457
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,760
So that means that I had to work
it. 

458
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,000
So in the summer, summer, in the
travel agency, in the summer, 

459
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,560
there's nothing going on. 
In Canada, there's nothing going

460
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,600
on mostly anyway. 
And then in a summer in a 

461
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,360
recession, there's even less 
going on. 

462
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:39,720
So I started to read Donald 
Featherstone books and just 

463
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,600
because I wanted to read about 
game design and and how to do 

464
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,160
things and how he how the 
beginning of wargaming started. 

465
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,360
So I was just buying his books 
left right and center and I 

466
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,640
wasn't even looking at what the 
the titles were, let alone what 

467
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,560
was inside him. 
So I I was. 

468
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,200
I even bought one of his 
physiotherapy books, How to 

469
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,520
Dance, How to Dance Safely or 
something like that. 

470
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,320
He was a physiotherapist, 
actually. 

471
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,880
Yeah, yeah, he was. 
Isn't he, For a football club? 

472
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,800
I think, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, he also. 

473
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,000
Yeah. 
So he yeah, actually helped 

474
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:23,000
people dance young lady ballet. 
Yeah. 

475
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,640
So. 
So anyway, so that's cool cool. 

476
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:31,840
And and so I one of the. 
Books that came across my desk 

477
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,400
was the Battlefield Walker's 
handbook. 

478
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,480
So I started to read that and I 
was looking for something new to

479
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,160
do because I had already had 
this travel agency that is, you 

480
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,080
know, fairly successful. 
And I was trying to look 

481
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,320
elsewhere. 
But also now there was a huge 

482
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,360
downturn and I was like, what am
I going to, what am I going to 

483
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:55,040
do? 
And so I read this, this book, 

484
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,920
and I'm like, wow, I could do 
battlefield tours anywhere in 

485
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,120
the world. 
And then I was driving around, 

486
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,520
you know, thinking about how I 
how I could do that and 

487
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,560
listening to 40K radio and I'm 
like, Oh my God, I can do nerd 

488
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,360
tours. 
And then from there it was like,

489
00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:15,680
I can do a Star Trek tour, I 
could do a whatever tour, I can 

490
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,040
do a tour to Japan for anime, I 
can do a tour to Japan for 

491
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,720
battlefields. 
So the the IT just. 

492
00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:28,280
Was a cascade of of of all that.
And so it all came from 

493
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,320
Wargaming, actually. 
Wow, that's great mate. 

494
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,040
Yeah. 
And it's been, yeah, you mean 

495
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,480
you start, I don't know exactly 
when did you start this 2009, 

496
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,360
was it 2010? 
2009, I started to solidify 

497
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,480
that. 
And so 2010, I think was my 

498
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,040
first tour. 
So, wow. 

499
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,320
So 23 years later you're still 
going, mate. 

500
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,080
Yeah, 1313 years. 
Sorry, 13. 

501
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,520
Years, yeah. 
Don't take 10 years away from 

502
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,320
me. 
So 13 years later you're still 

503
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,400
going. 
And yeah, I sort of learned 

504
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:02,960
about you through the D 6th 
generation with Russ Craig and 

505
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,360
all that. 
So yeah, you you came on 

506
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,920
sometimes. 
I talked about that and the. 

507
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,440
Two. 
Yeah. 

508
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,760
Yeah, awesome. 
And as a matter of fact, I'm 

509
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:17,080
still working with Craig. 
We're doing I'm when we're in 

510
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,080
the background. 
I have my my. 

511
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:28,040
Gettysburg tour. 
So I'm the battlefield handbook.

512
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,640
I'm doing my battlefield tour of
of Gettysburg and the American 

513
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:38,360
Civil War. 
So yeah, exciting, exciting 

514
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,640
stuff. 
So very happy about that and and

515
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,040
so he's going to be running that
one for me this summer. 

516
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,040
So yeah, we're still talking. 
There's lots of. 

517
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,480
You know, you make a lot of 
different connections like we I 

518
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,240
make. 
I was hanging out with John 

519
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:02,680
Stallard this this last summer 
because I did my Miniatures UK 

520
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,400
tour. 
I did. 

521
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:12,200
I was hanging out with Eddie 
Chambers and and the Perry twins

522
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,440
and you know, just all those old
GW guys. 

523
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,960
That's what we do. 
We go to the trip to Jerusalem 

524
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,120
and have a few drinks. 
Yeah. 

525
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,120
So it's funny you become friends
with these guys after a while. 

526
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,920
And and I remember the first 
time I I met Rick briefly, I was

527
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,680
just a mess. 
Like I was like, how do I talk 

528
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,920
to this guy? 
You later, later I told him that

529
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,440
story later. 
You know, a couple couple years 

530
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,240
later and he goes, you know, you
should have just told me, hey, 

531
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,440
we should go out for a beer. 
And I'm like of course. 

532
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,560
That would have been great if I 
would have known yeah it's it's 

533
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,640
kind of nice it's kind of 
strange to be you know all these

534
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,200
places have taken me to cool and
I've and and obviously I bring 

535
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,800
my tour group there and to meet 
all these people and that's one 

536
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,440
of the reasons I have this 
connection but but just to hang 

537
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,760
with them in a in a in a pub and
and just to be USBS with them 

538
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,040
and and know that they're human 
too but it's kind of cool that 

539
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,400
that. 
That this company has got me a 

540
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,040
lot of amazing friends. 
Yeah, that's wonderful. 

541
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:31,800
So yeah, all those all those 
cool GW times and and all those 

542
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:37,080
cool games that we used to play 
really influenced nation tours. 

543
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,760
And I think the Internet, 
obviously the Internet did too. 

544
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,680
When I came back, I moved from 
Vancouver to where I'm living 

545
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,280
now, Hinton, Alberta. 
So it's just a small town in the

546
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,000
middle of the Rockies or just 
outside of the Rockies. 

547
00:31:54,760 --> 00:32:03,520
And I had AI had a We were at 
that time there was a transition

548
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:09,440
between epic, epic, Armageddon 
was going on. 

549
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,480
Then again, you know that it 
kind of fell off, kind of fell 

550
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,520
apart after a while. 
And there was a lot of us in the

551
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:20,480
community that weren't really 
wanted to wanted to continue 

552
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,720
with old Epic. 
So I was part of the net Epic 

553
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:29,440
crew to to help rebuild Epic 
from from scratch and and kind 

554
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:34,960
of revitalize the the rules so. 
That was when the Internet was 

555
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,480
really young. 
So I was amazed that I had 

556
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,240
friends, you know, all through 
the United States and and Turkey

557
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:48,880
and and in England and we were 
just, you know, banding together

558
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,600
to make this cool new version of
Epic. 

559
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:58,120
So that was when I think my love
of of the Internet really kind 

560
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,240
of started off too. 
And how it can be a. 

561
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,520
A force for community and really
that's kind of what I've tried 

562
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,680
to make Geek Nation tours to be 
is this force for for community.

563
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,280
We, the Internet, can be kind of
at odds with that, obviously, 

564
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,320
but if we use it right, it can 
be really build our community 

565
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,360
even though we might not have 
people really close to us. 

566
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,280
So I've got a good friend that 
we game regularly, A few guys 

567
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:37,280
that we had used to game, but 
they've kind of moved on and so 

568
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,320
we don't always have that 
community right, really close to

569
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:46,880
us and and and so not only has 
the Internet provided me that, 

570
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,600
but Geek Nation Tours has 
provided me that too, because I 

571
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,400
try to create a mini community 
wherever we go. 

572
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,480
So when on our Star Trek Tour, 
for instance, everybody knows 

573
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,760
the jokes, everybody is like, 
oh, I remember that episode or 

574
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,880
or can kind of there's a common 
vocabulary. 

575
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,560
And so same with war gaming. 
When I go to the Adepticon Tour,

576
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,480
everybody just loves what 
they're doing and they just want

577
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,920
to be. 
They just want to hang out and 

578
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,360
express their their joy of of 
miniature war gaming or painting

579
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,480
or hobbying or whatever. 
So I think that I kind of lucked

580
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:29,560
out that that I can create a 
hobby, a community within a 

581
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,040
community. 
So really that's what we do. 

582
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,280
I've got people that on my first
tour, my first Nottingham tour, 

583
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:41,080
as a matter of fact they that 
was almost 10 years ago, or was.

584
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:47,920
It was 10 years ago, over 10 
years ago now, and they all hang

585
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,560
out on family holidays together.
They go to each other's, they 

586
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,800
went to each other's weddings. 
So that kind of that kind of 

587
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,240
bond is really what I'm trying 
to do with the, with the, with 

588
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:04,520
the, with GNT, yeah, wonderful. 
And and we can segue into the 

589
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,040
knit it because I know that's 
how I sort of discovered you as 

590
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,240
well through the community 
through the meatballs and 

591
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:13,040
miniatures podcast with Michael.
The big special. 

592
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,880
Oh yeah, yeah that was and that 
was a fun one. 

593
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,480
I liked that with Ken White at 
this and and the other gentleman

594
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,680
there I forget his name but he's
basically the the main guy 

595
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:29,400
behind everything behind it. 
So yeah, that's that's 

596
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,240
interesting that you you 
mentioned that and then and the 

597
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:34,520
community you build up online 
and it sort of helped you form 

598
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,600
this relationship with people 
around the world. 

599
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:41,240
And of course then you can tie 
that into your geek nation tours

600
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,600
and sort of visit these people 
places and that kind of thing 

601
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:45,640
that you form these 
relationships with. 

602
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:49,320
That's really good. 
How How often does Net Epic get 

603
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,360
onto the table, man? 
Not very often. 

604
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:58,760
It did back in the day. 
I think that I was there was a 

605
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:03,360
time when I kind of transitioned
away from from Wargaming. 

606
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,200
It was probably only about two 
years. 

607
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,680
I of course, I didn't play. 
I played Blood Bowl when I was 

608
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,440
in Japan, actually. 
That's really so. 

609
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,240
When I went to Japan, I found, 
what was it? 

610
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:18,200
Dungeon bowl. 
I had already played Blood Bowl,

611
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,960
but then I I played dungeon Bowl
when I was in Japan. 

612
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,720
So even in Japan, I was still 
war gaming not as much or 

613
00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:29,560
frequently as before. 
But then when I moved here I was

614
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,920
so busy with my business and 
establishing my family that 

615
00:36:33,720 --> 00:36:38,040
there's probably about two years
that I I didn't kind of war game

616
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:45,960
and that at least a year anyway.
And that time was when I I left 

617
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,080
the crew at at at net Epic and 
kind of just didn't do anything 

618
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:55,880
and then I transitioned to 40K. 
So, so net epic, although I was 

619
00:36:55,880 --> 00:37:00,520
really. 
Interested in Rule building. 

620
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:07,840
I didn't play it as much as as I
should have probably, but I 

621
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,840
didn't have the chance to play 
it at that time because at that 

622
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:17,560
time I had moved here and my 
only source of war gaming was 

623
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,600
net Epic, Building Net Epic 
because I didn't have anyone 

624
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:27,320
here that that played 40K. 
Or played played wargaming so 

625
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,040
that that when I was building 
that epic that was actually my 

626
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,640
only source of of of wargaming 
contact. 

627
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:39,080
Yeah wow. 
OK yeah I I can understand it. 

628
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,160
That's why I thought was it's 
it's interesting that your first

629
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,000
kind of miniature game was apart
from the role-playing but the 

630
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,640
real miniature tabletop gaming 
was epic and it's kind of not 

631
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,840
the first game that people 
mostly play. 

632
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,720
We got into it because it was 
cheap to get into because 

633
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,600
playing Warhammer Fantasy Battle
3rd Edition or Rd. trailer was 

634
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,240
just too expensive for us and 
the models are just too hard to 

635
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:02,880
get. 
But epic. 

636
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,280
You could buy everything in a 
box. 

637
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:09,160
Everything came in one big set 
and it just happened to be that 

638
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,640
the rules were so fun to play as
well that it just became this 

639
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,000
amazing game. 
It's an amazing game. 

640
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:16,720
And So what? 
What did you play? 

641
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,840
What did, what did you play? 
Did you play like space? 

642
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,680
Where, where, where did you 
enter the second edition? 

643
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,000
Second edition? 
Yeah, the Big Blue box when it 

644
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,520
came with all the same like 
Space Marine, but it just came 

645
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,520
with everything. 
The Titan and you know all the 

646
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:35,120
three different factions, and. 
That was the time to be in. 

647
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,440
I mean, I I really, I mean the 
Space Marine was OK, but really 

648
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:45,240
second was was really when it 
kind of turned on, turned on and

649
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:52,640
as a game I think it's to this 
day their best honestly like 

650
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:58,600
just the command and control of.
It's funny 'cause I talked to 

651
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,600
Andy about this and he and he's 
he believes that it's his best 

652
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,160
game also he did he did. 
I don't know if that's still the

653
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:09,000
case he probably his new stuff 
is even better but take out 

654
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,560
blood red Skies by. 
But yeah he I think he there's a

655
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,160
good place in his heart for for 
Epic and I think that it's it is

656
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,320
one of G WS best all time games.
The command and control method, 

657
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:28,200
the the way you you move 
miniatures across the table, it 

658
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,480
actually feels, and this sounds 
terrible, but it feels epic. 

659
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,600
It does feel like it's this 
amazingly huge battle that you 

660
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,680
would get in a novel from a 40K 
novel. 

661
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,920
Just the immensity of it is is 
the. 

662
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,120
Is there you know as soon as. 
And it's not like the Titans 

663
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:51,640
take it over and it's important 
to have Titan you know, but but 

664
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,160
it's it's really well balanced 
and all the different, I mean 

665
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:56,680
all the different armies they 
had. 

666
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,200
I can only imagine how hard that
would have been to balance. 

667
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:08,080
Like, it's just unbelievable. 
And I never felt that one 

668
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,320
faction was like. 
Powered over another faction 

669
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,080
they felt that there was always 
a chance to win and everything 

670
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,440
there was no there was no creep 
back in those days. 

671
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,720
You know and and it's just it's 
you know it's a wonderful game 

672
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,320
and and I was really happy to 
see that they're kind of going 

673
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,520
back to a lot of that a lot of 
those rules in in Legion. 

674
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,880
So that's part of the reason I'm
excited about it. 

675
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:38,560
You know, you see those, those 
command tokens and you're like, 

676
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,240
wow, that's that's kind of bring
in an old school for sure. 

677
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,480
Yeah, yeah, I think so too. 
Yeah, I'm happy for people to 

678
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:52,240
now re enter the hobby or find 
Epic in a new form and it's 

679
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:54,280
going to be supported. 
And you know they've got a new 

680
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,760
community doing that, which is 
which is great. 

681
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,360
So people who missed out on it 
before and found it too 

682
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,560
prohibitive to get back into it,
or didn't find an active 

683
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,280
community, well, now they've got
that. 

684
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,000
Which is excellent. 
And and if it's not going to be 

685
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,520
Games Workshop figures, well 
there's a whole range of other 

686
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:15,560
companies who make wonderful 
epic scale models that will suit

687
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,640
perfectly and then they've got 
various different systems. 

688
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,400
It's a bit like historical game.
You can just say OK, I'll, I'll 

689
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:26,000
play that that rule system or 
I'll play this one or well that 

690
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,600
Epic's still there and. 
Yeah, exactly, mate. 

691
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,760
Exactly. 
Yeah and and there's a whole 

692
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,400
bunch of miniatures, old 
miniatures you can still play by

693
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,880
and I'm sure you can get those 
via eBay or wherever too. 

694
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,440
So yeah, for sure. 
Yeah, it's a it's a it's just 

695
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:46,720
I'm glad that the game still is 
going to exist again in a in a 

696
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:51,240
in a form that's kind of 
supported by them. 

697
00:41:51,240 --> 00:41:57,120
But also I'm, I'm big proponent 
of of the game anyway. 

698
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,240
I've played it at Epicon a 
couple times by the way so that 

699
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,880
that's that's really nice. 
One of my two guys you know on 

700
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:08,640
my ministers in the in the UK 
tour brought their epic and they

701
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:13,080
played it at work. 
I think some of the game 

702
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,000
designers came down and watched,
actually. 

703
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,360
Why are they playing? 
Because it was a week before 

704
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:23,360
they released regions. 
So they were like, what's this? 

705
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:26,600
And then the day that we were 
leaving to go back home, they 

706
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,040
released Legions. 
So we're. 

707
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,840
Like, wow, you guys were just 
buying this. 

708
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:37,080
Yeah, so, yeah. 
So it's it's a it's definitely a

709
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:45,560
a beautiful thing. 
So I definitely have a good good

710
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:52,240
good relationship with that. 
I think they they they do have a

711
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:54,760
hard time balancing things and 
making things new. 

712
00:42:56,080 --> 00:43:00,400
So I do think that Epic will 
will give a lot of players a 

713
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,760
because it won't be, it won't be
40 Kick just like, I don't know,

714
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,120
have you played Titanicus? 
I've never played it, I've never

715
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:12,800
played the original one, never 
played the new one and I mean, 

716
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,240
to be honest, I would like to 
play the original 1. 

717
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,200
Just because I like the scale, 
like it's basically just the 

718
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:24,040
Beetle back Titans and you got 
the cool Styrofoam terrain and 

719
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:25,840
everything. 
I love the artwork and all that 

720
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,000
kind of stuff, but I heard that 
the new ones were equally as 

721
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,400
good and it's just in a 
different scale with different 

722
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:32,840
models and it's a very much 
higher price point. 

723
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:39,560
So it's just, Oh yeah, for sure.
And like the Warlord Titan, I 

724
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,160
don't want to build another 
Warlord Titan. 

725
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,000
It was a thing of I would say. 
But it was like the original 

726
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,200
ones are brilliant mate. 
It's like £5 I think let's. 

727
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,480
See it done. 
Exactly. 

728
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,760
And this, that Warlord Titan 
almost killed me. 

729
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,960
I'm like one more it was a it 
was a it was a Crucible for 

730
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,040
sure. 
But it it's a good game. 

731
00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:03,440
It it was fun. 
And it the reason why I brought 

732
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:08,680
it out up at all is that that 
too is not a regular GW game. 

733
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:14,520
Like it doesn't flow like H 
Sigmar or Fort decay it's or 

734
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:20,480
heresy it just is this kind of a
cool mechanisms that feel kind 

735
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:32,240
of apart from regular GW gaming 
and yeah it an an amazing an 

736
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:37,440
amazing system So that gives me 
a lot of hope for the new game 

737
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:42,160
that it will also be kind of a 
part from well again we saw 

738
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:46,400
already that they have the 
command and control type of 

739
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,680
stuff and so so we know that 
it's not going to be the same as

740
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,880
40K anyway so so that that is 
that gives me a lot of hope 

741
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,520
simply because again when we 
were working on Net Epic that 

742
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:05,680
was an amazing amazing time to 
revitalize that that the game 

743
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,040
that we love and I think that a 
lot of people just love now and 

744
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,040
yeah I don't know it was a it 
was a it was a really cool time 

745
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,480
Like I said I I hadn't it's 
funny that you tweaked that 

746
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:24,520
memory because I hadn't really 
thought of it as being my my 

747
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,960
only outlet for for war games 
for a little while when I wasn't

748
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:34,920
when I wasn't playing. 
So with that said I mean I 

749
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,960
played a lot of that those games
like we would probably game at 

750
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,000
least twice a twice a week once 
a week. 

751
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:46,000
So when I was living in 
Vancouver we games a lot and and

752
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,480
it was by and it was the only 
game that we played like I we 

753
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,440
had no interest. 
In 40K and no interest in Rogue 

754
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:57,640
Trader after our our our 
Debacling trying to get through 

755
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:04,600
a game but several games but 
yeah we it was it was a really 

756
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:10,080
good time so I have really good 
memories of that and and yeah 

757
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,440
net Net Epic was great too 
because it was the first time 

758
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:18,560
that I had an Internet community
and I remember there was just 

759
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:24,640
like recently there was a big 
earthquake in Turkey and yeah I 

760
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:28,520
contacted him and you know what 
I can't remember his name right 

761
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:33,040
off my off the top of my head 
but and he was like no we're OK 

762
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,560
and and so it's it was a strange
time because everything is so 

763
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,960
connected now but you got to 
remember that during the 90s 

764
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:46,880
there was no there was nothing 
like like it is now like it 

765
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,280
wasn't you had no idea what was 
going on the other side there 

766
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,840
was news and everything you know
but you just you didn't have. 

767
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,120
I didn't have the communication 
lines. 

768
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,800
I mean, when I was in Japan, I 
used to send letters to my. 

769
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,000
Right. 
Yeah, me too. 

770
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:02,920
I looked in the UK. 
Oh, you do the same. 

771
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:04,600
Because there's no extent. 
There's no way I can. 

772
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,800
You have to call them and call. 
It was very, very expensive. 

773
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,880
So just a handwritten letter was
the way you can send? 

774
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,640
Isn't that corresponding, it's? 
Amazing, isn't it? 

775
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,440
Yeah. 
You think about that and and how

776
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,520
time is, you know, we live kind 
of through history in a lot of 

777
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:27,000
ways and and we were in the 
generation that wrote letters 

778
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,200
and I don't think you'll ever 
see that again. 

779
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:32,160
There's, you know, outliers that
still write letters and 

780
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,200
everything for sure. 
And that's cool. 

781
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,680
That's a cool hobby to have or 
or cool thing to do. 

782
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:38,960
Even a postcard. 
They're like, when was the last 

783
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:40,680
time you got a postcard, You 
know what I mean? 

784
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:42,720
Yeah. 
Well, actually I live in Japan, 

785
00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:44,880
so you dig a lot of postcards. 
OK, that's true. 

786
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,400
That's the first day of the. 
Year or like the year celebrate.

787
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,080
The year you get a ton of them 
in the in the mailbox and you 

788
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,920
have to send it to one place. 
The one, one place. 

789
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,560
I love that you're right because
I still get postcards from 

790
00:47:56,560 --> 00:47:58,320
Japan. 
So that's true if you. 

791
00:47:58,360 --> 00:47:59,400
I don't write. 
I don't. 

792
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:00,720
I don't write them. 
I don't. 

793
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:02,440
I don't write them either. 
But if you want to come to the, 

794
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,640
the stationary capital of the 
world, Japan, yeah, it's. 

795
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,440
The first place to go to. 
So if you like you're 

796
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,600
stationary, then Japan. 
Is a place you should do a 

797
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:17,600
stationary tour. 
I'm sure we might get the wrong 

798
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,600
place like that. 
Does that mean that we stay in 

799
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:25,000
only one part? 
That's a great I should you know

800
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,360
because I actually there's a lot
of geeks out there that would 

801
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,480
love that kind of thing because 
this stores, the stationary 

802
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,640
stores in Japan are are 
wonderful. 

803
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,560
Well, I was thinking for girls 
too, because I love, you know, 

804
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,720
colored paper all the the, the, 
the kinds of different kinds of 

805
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:43,400
notebooks and pens and all. 
I mean, there's so many things 

806
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,880
you can buy and in Japan for 
that kind of stuff, that kind of

807
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,720
thing related to it. 
And yeah, they would love that. 

808
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:52,600
So I think for women and for 
girls, I would love all that 

809
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:57,240
kind of stuff, you know, being 
the Hello Kitty pen and then mix

810
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:01,760
pad or something like that. 
Absolutely. 

811
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,640
Yeah mate, there's a market for 
everybody really, isn't it? 

812
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:06,320
But yeah there is. 
Yeah there is. 

813
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,400
And and yeah that's and that's 
what basically we're we're at is

814
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,640
that we we do try to have as an 
outlandish tour every once in a 

815
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,400
while that is like a bowling 
tour or you know whatever 

816
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:25,320
something kind of weird or 
different but yeah so so talking

817
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:31,880
about net epic that that whole 
trying to get our our community 

818
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:35,280
together and and having that 
first time to have a a community

819
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,840
online community was really 
special and and the fact that 

820
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:42,800
that community happened to be 
wargaming. 

821
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:47,440
It's really strange that are 
really cool that that a lot 

822
00:49:47,720 --> 00:49:52,080
everything has my wargaming has 
LED into so many different 

823
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:59,240
things in my life so it's a huge
part of who I am but you can't 

824
00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:03,920
see it my my temp my painting 
table is just over there and I 

825
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,880
actually need to go to that 
place every once in a while. 

826
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,480
My wife is like, OK, you need to
go paint, just go and paint and 

827
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,480
and honestly I do I need to just
kind of Zen out and listen to. 

828
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:17,080
That's what it's about, isn't 
it? 

829
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,520
Like you talked about autism 
before and that kind of thing, 

830
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,720
like that is kind of a type of 
meditation, isn't it? 

831
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,240
Definitely not putting together 
a wall or Titan in the new age. 

832
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:36,040
Tell it's like a melted project.
That way I take it back and 

833
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:37,520
down. 
Fuel. 

834
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:44,040
Why are there so many parts? 
Yeah, yeah. 

835
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:48,520
It's it's it's it is a it is a 
place to meditate and it is it's

836
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:56,800
a place to to kind of get your 
head on straight and to just be 

837
00:50:56,800 --> 00:51:03,080
calm and and I think that that 
that calming that calming the 

838
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:09,200
calming space is really needed 
for me personally and that's you

839
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:14,120
know when when that when your 
table becomes be really careful 

840
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,280
on on a lot of things. 
I think for me, I I have to be 

841
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,760
really careful. 
Like first I I would never start

842
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,880
a painting service. 
Like I would never do that 

843
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,680
because not because of deadlines
and all that, because I'm pretty

844
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:30,960
good at deadlines. 
But I think that that when you 

845
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:37,760
change your table from a work 
meditative place to a workplace,

846
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,000
I think that would be really 
devastating for me. 

847
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:47,920
But also, what's also really 
important is that that the table

848
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:53,840
can't become a what's the right 
the sweat house? 

849
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:56,720
Sweatshop. 
Sweatshop. 

850
00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:59,880
I felt that there is a funny you
should say that. 

851
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:00,840
I actually did that for a 
living. 

852
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,560
I paid for a living. 
Yeah, we're living it. 

853
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:07,960
Yeah, well, that I that's. 
I have no, I have lots of 

854
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:08,960
friends. 
Oh, that's good. 

855
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,640
I mean, I'll keep you in mind 
for something, so. 

856
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,400
Warlord Titans maybe. 
Yeah, that's right. 

857
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:20,240
I will send you those next time 
I have to build them send them 

858
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:23,880
to you. 
For me, I'm like, like I said 

859
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,840
I've, I know a lot of people 
that do that but I can never do 

860
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,320
that and and but I have, I mean 
something different when I say a

861
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,880
sweatshop because what was 
happening to me when I was 

862
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:40,400
playing 40K was that I was 
painting for my gaming table and

863
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:45,520
I wasn't eating for me. 
And I think that started me 

864
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:53,480
thinking that that massive 32 
millimeter, 28 millimeter game 

865
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:59,640
gaming was not my stick anymore.
I I love skirmish games because 

866
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:04,720
I can paint up a, you know, a 
monster, a cyclops or a or a war

867
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:08,960
band, 10 miniatures or whatever.
But I I don't want to be in the 

868
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,680
position where I'm working for 
my gaming table. 

869
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:18,640
And so that's I think that's for
me that's really important not 

870
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:24,680
to have to have to have that 
space not interrupted by that 

871
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:27,760
and and so there's two things 
that I wouldn't do and that's 

872
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:31,360
great that you do don't get me 
wrong because if somebody's got 

873
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,920
to do that and I think it's a 
cool niche to have. 

874
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,800
I think it's amazing that that 
that exists because there's a 

875
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:45,120
lot of people that are are time 
is more valuable than than than 

876
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,640
than their money and it's a 
great way for them to get a army

877
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,280
and something for the table. 
So don't get me wrong that I 

878
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,760
think it's an amazing I have 
lots of friends that are that do

879
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,200
that. 
I just for me I think it was a 

880
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:05,240
mistake when I started to gear 
up my painting because for me it

881
00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:10,800
is a place of of calm and and 
and I do have the desire to 

882
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,360
finish miniatures. 
I do have the desire to, OK, 

883
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,320
just want, you know, one more 
layer and I'm that much closer 

884
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,080
to finished. 
But it's not, it's not a race 

885
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:25,320
anymore and it's not a, you 
know, it's not a place where I'm

886
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,320
like, OK, I need to get this. 
Done feel under pressure kind of

887
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:30,120
thing. 
To do something, to finish 

888
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,720
something in order to get it on 
the table, to play it kind of 

889
00:54:32,720 --> 00:54:35,800
thing, yeah. 
And if I do that, I try to do it

890
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:38,200
at a smaller scale like 
Adepticon. 

891
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,520
When I go to Adepticon, I always
we have a traditionally on 

892
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,200
Thursday nights, we have this 
kind of escape from Adepticon. 

893
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,720
We go to a different hotel out 
for dinner and then that that 

894
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:50,200
hotel we play Frost Grave. 
So we're going to play 

895
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,640
Stargrave. 
So I will have to paid up 

896
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:57,520
basically half a war band SO5 
miniatures for that and I will 

897
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,600
feel pressure, but that's good 
because that pressure makes you 

898
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,760
do it right. 
So so that that's a little bit 

899
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:08,080
different than doing it to make 
sure that you're competitive or 

900
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,320
make sure that you're trying to 
make that you're making money. 

901
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,360
And I think that that is where 
the balance is for me is when 

902
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:21,480
it's it's OK to I won't paint 
competitively anymore and that 

903
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:28,080
means as a business, as a golden
demon type of thing or as 

904
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:33,320
getting it ready for the my 
gaming table with my friends. 

905
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,400
Yeah, yeah, I I agree with that 
too. 

906
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:38,440
Yeah, I I don't do Golden Demon.
I did it for a while in 

907
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,520
Australia when I was there. 
And yeah, I mean it's it's an 

908
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,280
exciting event if you go there 
personally and see the other 

909
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,640
entries and see and meet the 
other painters and that kind of 

910
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,400
thing, but. 
In the end it was like, well, I 

911
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,120
painted this thing. 
It's in the cabinet. 

912
00:55:52,120 --> 00:55:54,960
What's it going to do? 
But I know that's exactly. 

913
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:57,960
If I can't game with it, it's 
just meaningless to me. 

914
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,840
It's just worthless. 
So I would really like just 

915
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:02,040
paint to play. 
You know what I mean? 

916
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,520
Like, I love it. 
That's right, 100%. 

917
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:07,520
It becomes a paperweight, right?
Yeah, basically, yeah. 

918
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:09,480
Yeah. 
I I can't. 

919
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:16,240
I can't. 
I mean obviously dabbled but it 

920
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:19,800
is about getting it on the table
ultimately, you know, I mean 

921
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,160
like it's it is about gaming. 
I'm not and I'm not a 

922
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:26,840
competitive gamer as you kind of
reason probably, but it is about

923
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,280
getting it on the table because 
that's where it really comes 

924
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,120
alive. 
And for me that's really the 

925
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,680
pinnacle of a war gaming 
experience. 

926
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:40,480
It is when you are so into the 
game that it seems like it's 

927
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,640
real. 
It's like first that that 

928
00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,760
immersive feel. 
That is what I love. 

929
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:49,160
That's why I'm a big terrain 
guy. 

930
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,320
You can probably see that. 
I mean that's that's a that's 

931
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:56,800
what I did over COVID is that 
waterfall and all that stuff and

932
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,920
when I can immerse, when it can 
be immersive to the extent that 

933
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:06,560
you kind of forget where you are
that's that's the best. 

934
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:11,640
And then and then that's why I'm
I consider myself my main gaming

935
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:15,440
is wargaming, but I actually 
consider myself a role player. 

936
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:19,200
I I don't consider myself a 
wargamer in a lot of ways 

937
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:23,520
because really it's about that 
immersive experience, that world

938
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:28,960
building that that that that 
adventure, one more adventure. 

939
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,880
And that's really comes down to,
you know, it's it's not about 

940
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,720
how I'm going to, you know, how 
am I going to win. 

941
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,200
And everybody likes to win. 
You know everybody likes when 

942
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:42,040
the dice gods give you some 
sixes or 20s or whatever. 

943
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:49,200
But but that feeling of of being
immersed, that's way more 

944
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:50,680
important to me than anything 
else. 

945
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,880
When when the adventure happens 
and again that come relates back

946
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:01,600
to the Geek Nation tours, is 
that really it's I'm trying to 

947
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:09,200
create adventures and and going 
to a place is is not good enough

948
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,280
for me. 
Bringing people to a place is 

949
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,080
not good enough. 
It's about the adventure of 

950
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,480
being in that place. 
Like when I go to Japan, I 

951
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:21,320
really try to make it feel like 
you're going back in time. 

952
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,320
So I do to go to Buddhist 
temples, I do go to Shindo 

953
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:29,160
Rhines, I go to battlefields, we
walk the battlefield when it's 

954
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:35,120
there and we talk about the 
history and and and and just try

955
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:39,200
to immerse yourself in there. 
And same with my Star Trek tour.

956
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,320
So all those tours are about 
being immersed. 

957
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:49,200
And yeah, so I'm a role player, 
honestly, but I express it 

958
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:51,120
through miniature war game. 
Oh, wonderful. 

959
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,480
Yeah, I suppose a lot of these 
modern games like you're talking

960
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:58,040
about. 
The what's it called again? 

961
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,360
You talked about it before the 
wizard game first grade 

962
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:04,040
Stargrave. 
You know they're kind of 

963
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:09,640
immersive you know small scale 
skirmish playing on the table, 

964
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:14,160
top type games more so than 
competitive you know you know 

965
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:18,080
head to head type type games 
which yeah, I'm, I don't feel 

966
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:20,400
all that you know as part from 
Epic. 

967
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,800
I suppose Epic space means the 
only game where I can I can. 

968
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:28,160
Enjoy the head to head kind of 
feel of the game because it's a 

969
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:30,040
feel like I'm really playing a 
real strategy game. 

970
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,560
Probably less laughs, but I'm 
really enjoying it. 

971
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,400
It's a great experience. 
And I feel like I'm really in 

972
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,120
control of this massive army 
with this huge Titan. 

973
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,400
And you know, and then you can, 
you know, then you can laugh 

974
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:44,600
about when you're rolling the 
charts and you blow them up and 

975
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,600
you know, Oh my God, yeah, the 
work still. 

976
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,520
Worked. 
And yeah, that's for sure, for 

977
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:59,040
sure for my regular games like 
for outside of of Epic, which 

978
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:04,040
are legions now or that I will 
get back into and it will be, 

979
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,360
we'll still have storylines 
probably I'm I'm quite certain 

980
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:12,800
of it. 
But my rules now because there's

981
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:16,480
so much out there, so many 
amazing games, amazing 

982
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:20,720
miniatures that I I've put rules
on what I can buy. 

983
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,280
So for me, it's got to be a 
skirmish game. 

984
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:27,960
There's got to be ARPG element, 
so there's got to be growth, a 

985
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,720
means to grow. 
So a campaign system is even 

986
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,520
better and I will miss that when
we're playing the Legions, but 

987
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:40,320
we'll come back to to Ghost, 
Archipelago and Frost grade the 

988
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:44,960
Frost grades and continue our 
campaigns on those two. 

989
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:52,240
But really it's that that that 
that campaign, that that growth,

990
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,880
the character growth that I 
really do like and I think that 

991
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,560
we'll find a way to do it, to 
put it into legions too. 

992
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,440
So that's and and I do prefer D 
20s. 

993
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,880
I I love the Swinginess. 
Not everybody, a lot of people. 

994
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,280
There's a lot of hate for D 20s,
but I do love the Swinginess, so

995
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:17,680
that's where my passion is now. 
It is changing though, 'cause 

996
01:01:17,680 --> 01:01:23,640
I'm really, again, I'm really 
excited about legions, but that 

997
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,760
whole vibe is how I kind of 
determine whether or not I'm 

998
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,960
going to buy a game. 
And we, I don't know if you 

999
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,560
noticed this, but we did have, 
we did go to when there was no 

1000
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,200
war. 
We went to Estonia and did a 

1001
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:40,880
Frost Grave tour in Estonia and 
it was amazing. 

1002
01:01:41,240 --> 01:01:47,880
The food was spectacular, booze 
was good and just and and we 

1003
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:51,320
games every night. 
We in Frost Grave and and 

1004
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:55,080
basically Joe. 
Yeah, because Joe McCullough, he

1005
01:01:55,080 --> 01:01:56,440
actually got the idea from 
Estonia. 

1006
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:59,600
He went to Estonia on his 
honeymoon or something like 

1007
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:01,680
that, right? 
That's right, freezing. 

1008
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:03,720
Themselves to death and that 
that's where he got the idea for

1009
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:05,000
Frost grave. 
That's right. 

1010
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:08,160
Yeah, exactly. 
And so that's cool about that is

1011
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:14,400
that we went back and we went 
and went and so I would I would 

1012
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:18,600
go back in a minute like and I 
don't think that there's much to

1013
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:24,240
worry about war wise. 
That culture is an amazing 

1014
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:31,400
Cultural Center Estonia and food
is it has tastes like Curry but 

1015
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:37,080
then you got pork chops and just
it's just such a collage of of 

1016
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,000
coolness and the history there 
is amazing. 

1017
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,600
And then and then we were gaming
every night across Graves, so 

1018
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:44,120
that that was a lot of fun too. 
So. 

1019
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,240
Yeah, no, that's fine. 
Sounds wonderful. 

1020
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:51,320
Very, very very, very cool. 
So we So are you still playing 

1021
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:53,880
Epic then or? 
Absolutely. 

1022
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:54,920
Absolutely. 
Really. 

1023
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:56,840
That's so awesome. 
I love that. 

1024
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,920
That's that's so cool. 
What are you playing? 

1025
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:01,520
Dead Epic or what do you What do
you? 

1026
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:04,520
Playing, playing second edition.
So the thing was like, I played 

1027
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:08,640
Epic with a friend of mine, 
Chris, and we played it in 90s 

1028
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:10,760
when. 
The epic Space Marine first came

1029
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:14,360
out the 2nd edition set, and we 
bought that and we split the 

1030
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:16,600
forces. 
I took the Marines and he took 

1031
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:20,080
the Elder and Orcs, and then we 
slowly built up the collections.

1032
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:24,120
Chris actually had a wonderful 
kind of homemade molding kit. 

1033
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,400
He made his own molds and he 
would buy the vehicles and he 

1034
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,640
would cast them up so he'd have 
more, more because you were 

1035
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:33,320
always wondering where you could
get more. 

1036
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,960
So that's awesome. 
Because he was he was newly 

1037
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,960
married and he had a young child
at that time so he didn't have 

1038
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:41,880
the money to to splash it all 
nettle stuff And of course we're

1039
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,520
in Australia so it's like the 
you know we're we're living in 

1040
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:51,360
the in the in the the most 
gaming related centric place in 

1041
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,080
the world. 
So getting stuff was really 

1042
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:57,600
difficult but we managed we got 
we got our box sets of the rule 

1043
01:03:57,600 --> 01:03:59,600
sets. 
I I played mainly Chaos. 

1044
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,840
He played mainly Orcs and Elder.
And we just loved it. 

1045
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,320
We went there every, I went to 
his house every weekend on his 

1046
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:07,640
floor because we didn't have 
tables. 

1047
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:11,760
We just played on the floor and 
I was like 19 or something like 

1048
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:12,960
that. 
And he was fairly young too. 

1049
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,720
So we could we could sit on the 
floor or kneel on the floor for 

1050
01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:20,280
like 3 or 4 hours at a time. 
We can't do that now. 

1051
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:22,640
It would kill. 
You would. 

1052
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:24,680
Kill you because his wife and 
baby were sleeping. 

1053
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,560
And I remember, I finally 
remember all those times. 

1054
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:29,080
It was all brilliant. 
And we went to the games club 

1055
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:31,680
and we we put on big games of a 
big and got other people 

1056
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:34,000
involved. 
And yeah, they were the best, 

1057
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:38,280
best times of gaming for me. 
So about five years ago and 

1058
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:40,800
because I played Infinity 
heavily, heavily for like 10 

1059
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:45,040
years, about a decade or so. 
But the rules became so complex.

1060
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:48,680
That it just became this brain 
burning kind of experience. 

1061
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:52,160
Every time I went to play 
Infinity, that it's like my God,

1062
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:53,520
how many rules I got to 
remember. 

1063
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:55,760
And you know, and I thought I 
can't deal with this anymore. 

1064
01:04:56,240 --> 01:04:59,560
So I thought, I want to go back.
I want to go back to the gaming 

1065
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:02,520
the the games that I really 
loved back in the day. 

1066
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,000
And Epic Spaceman was the first 
thing that I really wanted to 

1067
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,680
start up. 
So I I posted up online here in 

1068
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:11,480
Japan a guy. 
Very kindly posted back saying, 

1069
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,000
yeah, I've got some squats and 
orcs and you know, showed me 

1070
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:17,080
some pictures and I thought 
they're perfect, I'll take 

1071
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:19,120
those. 
And you had the the Warlord set 

1072
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:22,880
and everything and all the cards
and that was how I got started 

1073
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:24,520
back into it. 
I found another guy here in 

1074
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:27,080
Chiba in Japan who also liked to
play Space Marine. 

1075
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:29,960
So I started playing with him 
and then Paul, the guy I came 

1076
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,640
with now, he was always 
interested in Epic but never got

1077
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:34,960
to play it because it sort of 
phased out by the time he got 

1078
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,840
into. 
War gaming or whatever. 

1079
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:40,120
So he got into it. 
He really likes it because he 

1080
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:42,960
comes from the Flames of War 
background. 

1081
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:48,000
So he same sort of scale similar
kind of rules but and so yeah 

1082
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,160
that's how we play and we play 
well I try, I I, you know I 

1083
01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:53,440
would love to play once a month 
if we can. 

1084
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,040
I record the battles and put 
them on on my YouTube channel. 

1085
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:59,880
So trying to keep the yeah, 
sorry about that. 

1086
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:02,400
My ignorance is showing us. 
No, no, no. 

1087
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:03,200
That's all right. 
That's all right. 

1088
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:04,920
But yeah, we I try to keep it 
alive. 

1089
01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:08,920
Yeah, because I really love that
game so much. 

1090
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,320
I think it's probably my 
favorite all time game apart. 

1091
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:15,040
I love Warhammer. 
I love, you know, those old 

1092
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:17,840
models and painting them are 
beautiful and painting epic is 

1093
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:22,200
not one of my greatest loves. 
I've got to be honest, it's but 

1094
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:25,080
the the game itself is what 
really keeps you coming back. 

1095
01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:28,000
Yeah, it's again, like I said, 
the system. 

1096
01:06:28,240 --> 01:06:29,840
I still have all my miniatures 
by the. 

1097
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:30,800
Way. 
Oh, great. 

1098
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:34,040
It's great one. 
I have the Space Green Army, 

1099
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,920
I've got my friends stuff too. 
So I've got 2 space Marine 

1100
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:43,400
armies or the the start of a 
knit army. 

1101
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:47,360
Some of it's still in metal 
still never hated because I 

1102
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:51,080
that's when we kind of stopped 
at the end. 

1103
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:55,240
And the Eldar army, what else? 
And there's a squad army there 

1104
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:56,600
too. 
Yeah I've got all that stuff 

1105
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:59,240
still. 
As a matter of fact, two days 

1106
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:01,040
ago I could have pulled that out
and showed you but. 

1107
01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:03,640
That's a romance trying to 
organize my room. 

1108
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:08,400
But the yeah, so I have all that
stuff. 

1109
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:12,200
So the sense of nostalgia, 
that's so awesome that you're 

1110
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:16,920
still playing. 
It's amazing because it's it is 

1111
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:19,520
a good game. 
Like all all the really kind of 

1112
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:21,840
weird wacky shit that happens 
all the time. 

1113
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:26,600
Like the the, the Eldar. 
It's weird. 

1114
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:28,840
Wacky Templates. 
Templates. 

1115
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:35,920
So good stuff. 
That and and yeah that's awesome

1116
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,440
that you're still playing. 
That's that's great. 

1117
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,960
That's commendable and that's 
you see that you found 

1118
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:46,480
miniatures in Japan. 
Well, I found, I found people 

1119
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,960
who were selling miniatures. 
So I found a guy, Bruce, 

1120
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,360
somewhere in Japan here, maybe 
somewhere in Kanto or something 

1121
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:57,400
I think. 
And he had just a a a load of 

1122
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,360
old stuff. 
He's from Canada as well, 

1123
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,680
actually he migrated to Japan 
many, many years ago and lives 

1124
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,040
here. 
But I think he just brought his 

1125
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:07,920
stuff that he had in Canada to 
Japan and probably just never 

1126
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:10,120
got to play it or whatever. 
I'm not sure. 

1127
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,000
But he had that plus Man of War,
and I bought Man of War off him 

1128
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:15,360
at a very reasonable price and 
all my scaven. 

1129
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,640
Me for why I'm a fantasy. 
I bought from Bruce as well. 

1130
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:22,640
So Bruce has been a wonderful, 
yeah, very, very generous person

1131
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:26,640
in in allowing me to get all 
these wonderful miniatures and 

1132
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,240
games and stuff at very 
reasonable prices. 

1133
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:34,279
So big shout out to to Bruce if 
you yeah yeah Bruce and yeah 

1134
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:37,160
basically got me, got me my 
foothold into epic again. 

1135
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:39,960
And then from there I started 
buying stuff online, of course 

1136
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:43,319
through Facebook groups and 
making connections with people 

1137
01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:45,720
in the UK. 
And that kind of thing. 

1138
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:50,120
And just getting stuff again and
slowly but surely accruing all 

1139
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:52,800
the stuff I've lost and giving 
away or thrown in the bin. 

1140
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,200
I threw some stuff in the bin. 
Actually, would you believe I 

1141
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:58,279
just threw it out because I just
didn't think we'll ever play it 

1142
01:08:58,279 --> 01:08:59,040
again. 
It's crazy. 

1143
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:02,560
Absolute craziness. 
And yeah, just slowly building 

1144
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:06,000
up my collection again to a 
point where I've got pretty much

1145
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:07,840
everything I need and I'm happy,
man. 

1146
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:08,560
I'm. 
I'm happy. 

1147
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:09,800
I don't need anything else. 
I'm. 

1148
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:12,520
I'm all good. 
So will you try legions or 

1149
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,520
you're like that? 
The price point is too much. 

1150
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,760
I'll probably just stick. 
With because you've got 

1151
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:18,080
everything that you need 
already. 

1152
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:19,479
I think I've got everything I 
need. 

1153
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:23,600
I think if I'm ever going to 
expand off Epic, Space Marine 

1154
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:25,479
would be net Epic. 
I'd like to try that. 

1155
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:29,120
I've never played it and it's 
another game. 

1156
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:31,760
Yeah, I think I've heard a lot 
of good things about and I think

1157
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,920
most people who play Epic Space 
Marine always go to net as a 

1158
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:37,240
default now. 
They go to net Epic now and I 

1159
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,560
want to give it a go because 
it's very similar to. 

1160
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:44,240
Epic Space Marine, but it has 
some elements of space being 1st

1161
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:48,200
edition in there with some of 
the movement, alternating 

1162
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:52,920
movement, that kind of thing. 
And it was Peter Ramos and I 

1163
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:54,560
think another general from 
Peter. 

1164
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:59,160
He made is it Imperial dominatus
or something like that? 

1165
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:03,440
There's like AD 10 system that 
he made based on Horace Heresy 

1166
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,600
and he's got his own game that 
they've developed together. 

1167
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:10,920
And I really want to try that 
because it's basically just like

1168
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:15,080
first edition Epic, but with AD 
10 system, not AD 6 system. 

1169
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:19,880
And that looks very interesting.
Yeah, so D 10s are great too. 

1170
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:24,200
I think that that adding a 
little bit of swing is always 

1171
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:28,040
awesome. 
So that's that's great, That's 

1172
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:29,600
incredible that you're still 
playing. 

1173
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:33,040
I think that that or that you've
you're playing again. 

1174
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:37,760
Yeah and those miniatures are 
are great. 

1175
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,240
They are a little bit of a slog 
but I think that they're. 

1176
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:43,520
I mean, I was converting mine by
the end anyway. 

1177
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:51,360
Like I had AI had a a sense of 
Horus, Imperator, Titan. 

1178
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:54,520
I had. 
I drilled into my rhinos and 

1179
01:10:54,520 --> 01:10:58,600
made them with cables and stuff.
It made them in all nergely the 

1180
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:00,400
sand on them and everything like
that. 

1181
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:02,880
So I was really at even at that 
scale. 

1182
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:07,680
I was already converting a lot 
and there's a lot there. 

1183
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:16,880
That game had so much going for 
it that that not miniature wise.

1184
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,680
The the infantry was hard 
because it that's six, isn't it?

1185
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:23,480
It's 6 millimeters. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1186
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,680
So that's 6 millimeters tough, 
especially when when you're 

1187
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,520
getting old, 6 millimeters, so 
do you. 

1188
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:31,560
These, these, these magnifying 
glass. 

1189
01:11:31,560 --> 01:11:33,120
I need to. 
Oh yeah, exactly. 

1190
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:34,440
I can't see that. 
Stuff anymore. 

1191
01:11:34,440 --> 01:11:37,720
But The thing is, I'll say in 
it's in benefit of playing Epic 

1192
01:11:38,240 --> 01:11:41,640
One is that you can paint an 
entire army in a weekend. 

1193
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:45,080
Especially with contrast paints,
I think they're beautiful for 

1194
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:47,800
that. 
And secondly, like you said with

1195
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,800
your friends, you know, 
travelling and playing abroad, I

1196
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:53,200
could take my epic army in a 
small case. 

1197
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:56,440
It doesn't weigh anything as 
most as plastic and you could 

1198
01:11:56,440 --> 01:11:58,000
go, I could go anywhere and play
it. 

1199
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:00,320
If I was going to go bring out 
your lead in the UK, I'd take 

1200
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:03,200
Epic because it's just so easy 
to carry around. 

1201
01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:07,840
It's, you know, you can have a 
wonderful, you know, really 

1202
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:12,960
fulfilling game playing Epic. 
And overall I just feel and I I 

1203
01:12:12,960 --> 01:12:15,600
think you you you've touched on 
it before the balance issue I I 

1204
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:17,760
I don't feel there's any 
imbalance in the game. 

1205
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:19,920
I. 
Think that you've always you've 

1206
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:21,920
always in it. 
And that's the thing about Epic.

1207
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:25,200
You can see how the victory 
points are going, how much you 

1208
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:28,000
need to get, how much how much 
you need to do to break 

1209
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:31,480
someone's company or clan or 
whatever you might just be able 

1210
01:12:31,480 --> 01:12:34,120
to catch, you know get it and 
snag the victory in the last 

1211
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,400
minute kind of thing. 
I love that kind of that that 

1212
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:39,640
tension that builds in the game 
as well. 

1213
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:47,920
So for sure, yeah, and yeah, the
it's an amazing, it's an amazing

1214
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,240
system and there's there's a lot
of love there. 

1215
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:57,640
And you know, it's funny because
when I was when I was moved to 

1216
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:00,600
Vancouver, I was looking for 
work, but I also brought my 

1217
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:05,680
orcs, my unpainted orcs. 
So I remember probably not 

1218
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:09,680
looking for a job as best as 
well as I should have, but I was

1219
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:14,000
painting orcs instead of going 
to look for for for a job. 

1220
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:20,000
So, so, so, so the orcs saved me
from one pain for but caused 

1221
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,160
another pain. 
So when I was done, I'm like, I 

1222
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:23,760
can't even take these orcs 
anymore. 

1223
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:29,440
I'm going to look for a job. 
Yeah, those are great. 

1224
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:34,720
And and you know, it's also 
about epic. 

1225
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:42,400
It had a certain joy about it. 
I think that it it feels less 

1226
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:43,400
grim. 
Dark. 

1227
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:48,080
It does. 
I mean, you have elements of 

1228
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,840
that, of course, but it has less
of a grim, dark feel. 

1229
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:56,440
And I mean all Rd. 
Trader and all those other older

1230
01:13:56,440 --> 01:14:02,720
90s games did have a lot less 
darkness, a lot more fun. 

1231
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:06,920
And I get the reasons why GW 
went that way, because I think 

1232
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:08,440
our society kind of went that 
way. 

1233
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:12,280
But but Epic still has that joy 
too. 

1234
01:14:12,280 --> 01:14:16,280
That kind of funness about it, 
that that ability to just kind 

1235
01:14:16,280 --> 01:14:23,720
of make silly mistakes or silly 
and and it all comes out OK and 

1236
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:28,120
and yeah, and templates and 
blowing up stuff. 

1237
01:14:28,120 --> 01:14:30,760
And and the ORC rules are 
amazing too. 

1238
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:34,160
There's just so silliness. 
Yeah, for sure. 

1239
01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,760
I was always an Eldar fan. 
I'm always been, whenever I'm 

1240
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:46,080
minister, wargaming armies. 
I always like speed, So anything

1241
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:49,320
with speed is always awesome. 
So lots of jet bikes racing 

1242
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:55,200
across, you know, it's, you know
what's great about that scale? 

1243
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:57,520
That scale is great about that 
scale. 

1244
01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:02,640
It's such a weird thing because 
a bass is a bass is a bass, 

1245
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,080
right? 
So if you were just moving 

1246
01:15:04,080 --> 01:15:08,040
basses and playing 40K, you can 
do that like it was just bass 

1247
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:10,680
and you can just move basses if 
it was just epic. 

1248
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:18,240
But Epic had this feel of the 
grand sweeping motions and this,

1249
01:15:18,440 --> 01:15:21,920
you know things. 
You can outflank people or you 

1250
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:29,640
can do speed, and obviously you 
can do that at 32 also, but it 

1251
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,520
just feels so much more grand 
when you do it in Epic for some 

1252
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,680
reason because maybe it's 
because you're looking at. 

1253
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:39,520
This tiny little miniature 
racing across what is a huge 

1254
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:44,160
battlefield. 
But you have this feel of of of 

1255
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:49,040
a bigger battle, even though 
it's in a lot of ways it's the 

1256
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:52,200
same battle because the base is 
about the same size, you know 

1257
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:55,360
what I mean? 
So that illusion, again, that 

1258
01:15:55,360 --> 01:16:02,200
immersive, immersive means to to
get people to see the battle as 

1259
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:06,320
a huge thing, is an amazing 
thing that wargaming can do. 

1260
01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:09,520
Yeah, absolutely, mate. 
I I totally agree with that. 

1261
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:13,560
I think, yeah, the movement 
element of Epic, you know, these

1262
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:16,680
big sweeping movements, as you 
say, it feels like you're really

1263
01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:21,080
actually flanking the army when 
you bring more jet bikes in or 

1264
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:23,440
or. 
You know, colder speed or 

1265
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:26,800
whatever it might be. 
And when I played, because we 

1266
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,800
play Second edition 40K2 here as
well, it just takes like four 

1267
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:33,400
turns before you get to the 
center of the table unless 

1268
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:38,000
you've got like a slogging it 
across, right. 

1269
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:41,400
You're like, but it's so weird 
though because they're the same 

1270
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:42,840
size. 
You know what I mean? 

1271
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:45,360
It's just, I don't know. 
It's just the way, yeah, it's 

1272
01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:48,600
it's a cool, well, obviously the
rules are different and the 

1273
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,680
movements slightly different. 
Yeah, that whole that whole 

1274
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:56,440
moving and and the the 
battlefield becoming alive with 

1275
01:16:56,440 --> 01:17:01,840
motion is a really cool thing 
that Epic definitely captured 

1276
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:09,960
and is is a huge component of of
why I loved it so much. 

1277
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:18,320
I remember once when my friend, 
he was running an Imperial force

1278
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:24,560
and I was, I was playing an 
Aldar force and I had a Warlock 

1279
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,600
Titan. 
That's right, right? 

1280
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:29,320
Warlock Titan. 
Yeah, Warlock Titan. 

1281
01:17:29,440 --> 01:17:30,280
Yeah, yeah. 
Warlock. 

1282
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:32,720
Phantom or warlocks? 
Yeah, yeah. 

1283
01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:34,720
OK, good. 
I just want to make sure I got 

1284
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:39,840
the term right there. 
And he was like, how am I going 

1285
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:43,440
to kill this guy? 
And he made this huge Titan, 

1286
01:17:43,440 --> 01:17:45,880
Imperial Titan. 
And he you know got to eat it 

1287
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:50,360
out and made it so many 
different things and and somehow

1288
01:17:50,360 --> 01:17:54,040
in his build he had forgotten 
that the warlock just comes up 

1289
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:57,560
and shoots him through the 
through this uses the psychic 

1290
01:17:57,560 --> 01:18:00,960
cannon and and goes through all 
the void Shields and everything 

1291
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:05,280
So like moved up and and he's 
like all right. 

1292
01:18:06,040 --> 01:18:09,360
I spent the whole weekend making
this Titan and he just killed it

1293
01:18:09,360 --> 01:18:14,480
on the first turn. 
What How can you forget the most

1294
01:18:14,480 --> 01:18:16,600
important thing about this 
particular Titan. 

1295
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:19,360
So yeah. 
That's that's the thing that 

1296
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:22,200
turns like the the Titan versus 
Titan battle was like a mini 

1297
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:25,320
game in itself, wasn't it? 
Like the infantry wouldn't worry

1298
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:27,600
about the Titans. 
It'll be like just just moving 

1299
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:30,240
to get get away from them. 
The vehicles came. 

1300
01:18:30,240 --> 01:18:32,800
They're trying to shut down some
of their their void Shields. 

1301
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,480
But then it's just like became 
this epic thing between the 

1302
01:18:35,480 --> 01:18:38,400
Titans, you know, dominating 
like two big giant. 

1303
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:42,080
You know, like monsters or 
whatever. 

1304
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:44,360
You know, like I do like God, 
Yeah. 

1305
01:18:44,440 --> 01:18:46,760
Yeah, Let's see it kind of like 
Godzilla's or something like 

1306
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:50,560
that, Yeah. 
It's just not the same without 

1307
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:52,120
the Titans. 
It's not the same without it. 

1308
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:56,680
No, no, I yeah, I'd agree. 
I'd agree that the Titans make. 

1309
01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:58,320
I mean, you could play it the 
other way, but I think the 

1310
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:02,720
Titans make it at a level of 
interest that's that you can't 

1311
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:05,120
take away from. 
That's best. 

1312
01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:09,840
That's best included, I guess. 
It's really and and that 

1313
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:16,280
building them both the rules and
of course modelling was a joy. 

1314
01:19:16,480 --> 01:19:20,440
Like I again, I come back to the
warp missile thing like is it 

1315
01:19:20,480 --> 01:19:25,040
going to work man, because it's 
so it's so goofy and swingy you 

1316
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:27,280
have no idea things going to go 
through. 

1317
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:31,000
But then what it does, it's just
so triumphant. 

1318
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:34,120
I remember having so many times 
like, you know, just screaming, 

1319
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:38,480
yeah, where the heck exists 
because it's fun, man. 

1320
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:42,720
And that's that's that's the, 
like I said, look there's just 

1321
01:19:42,720 --> 01:19:47,160
this last this more comedic 
element to epic. 

1322
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:50,240
That's that. 
It is is a thing of joy because 

1323
01:19:50,240 --> 01:19:57,600
it's it's not so grim and it's 
not so dark, you know, And the 

1324
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:01,880
rules have that. 
The rules play that sense, that 

1325
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:03,920
sensibility. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

1326
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:08,920
Well, Terrace has been an 
absolute joy to have your past, 

1327
01:20:08,920 --> 01:20:10,520
man. 
And I really appreciate all the 

1328
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:14,440
time that you've come on to talk
to us about Geek Nation tours, 

1329
01:20:14,440 --> 01:20:17,080
your history in the gaming, 
touring that Robin Williams, 

1330
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:20,160
your account with Robin 
Williams, and dancing in the 

1331
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:24,040
Game Workshop store in Canada. 
That's quite incredible and of 

1332
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:26,840
course your love and passion for
war gaming generally. 

1333
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:29,160
But it's of course epic Space 
Marine. 

1334
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:34,000
And what is what was your craft?
Or by the way of your elder, 

1335
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:36,160
what did you paint them as? 
Can you remember? 

1336
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:44,920
Is it Ala talk or is it Hilton 
one? 

1337
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:48,680
With the cup? 
No, the one with the cup, The 

1338
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:54,240
kind of the wise symbol. 
Yeah, Eenden. 

1339
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:56,920
Eenden. 
That's right. 

1340
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,360
OK, very nice. 
All right, so I hope you get 

1341
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:01,840
your Eenden back on the table. 
Yeah, one day. 

1342
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:03,120
Yeah, I will. 
Maybe now. 

1343
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:06,320
Now you've got me all riled up. 
Maybe I'll be like, screw this 

1344
01:21:06,440 --> 01:21:09,360
Legends, but I'm on a halt to 
that, mate. 

1345
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:11,640
If you're coming over to Japan, 
please come and see me at the 

1346
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:14,080
Cronic, you know? 
What I mean now, maybe I will. 

1347
01:21:14,120 --> 01:21:18,680
Maybe I'll play Epic Space Room 
over a couple of Mihon shoes. 

1348
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:21,400
Yeah, that would. 
Be awesome. 

1349
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:22,760
That would be awesome. 
Awesome. 

1350
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:24,360
Thank you for having me. 
It was a pleasure. 

1351
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:28,720
And thanks for all the memories 
cuz you really brought back a 

1352
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:30,760
bunch of memories. 
That's wonderful Terry. 

1353
01:21:30,760 --> 01:21:33,200
I'm really happy about that man.
Enjoy your enjoy your new game 

1354
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:35,720
when it comes and gets delivered
eventually. 

1355
01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:38,400
And you know you enjoy putting 
all those miniatures together. 

1356
01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:46,920
No words. 
Take care and enjoy the rest of 

1357
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:49,040
your day or evening. 
And I'll talk to you again 

1358
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:50,720
hopefully at some other point. 
OK. 

1359
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:53,440
So thanks very much again. 
Thanks, Terrace. 

1360
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:55,160
Take care. 
OK. 

1361
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:55,600
Bye. 
Bye.