1 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:18,760 Hi guys, it's. Josh here from the Credit 2 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,280 Command Podcast. Thank you very much again for 3 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,680 downloading this episode and listening today as we have 4 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,040 another interesting interview with another interesting 5 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,760 individual, another person out there making videos on YouTube 6 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,960 talking about sort of old hammer content but a bit of new hammer. 7 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,680 It's a bit of a bit of a blend of the both, which is nice, you 8 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,200 know, looking at like alternative miniature companies 9 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:48,280 and things like that. So for sort of sort of miniature 10 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:55,520 agnostic games that Stompy enjoys playing with his friends 11 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,760 and colleagues where he lives in, in the UK. 12 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,720 So it's always interesting. I'd like the way he presents the 13 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,040 videos and talks about them and and that kind of thing. 14 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,120 So that's why I asked Stop Beyond to say let's talk about 15 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,840 it, let's talk about your history, let's talk about how 16 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,840 you got into the this wonderful world of tabletop miniature 17 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,760 gaming. So I hope you look forward to 18 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,120 that in just a little while. In other news, I have a a whole 19 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,480 stream of guests. I'm really trying to get as many 20 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,920 people and trying to keep the podcast on a weekly basis. 21 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,760 Now if I can and or if free two weeks or so. 22 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,560 But at the moment it's going pretty well. 23 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,160 So as long as I've got the guests coming on and you know 24 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,680 wanting to come and speak with us then the podcast will be more 25 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,320 on a regular basis which is great. 26 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:54,560 And so we I had a extensive chat with Adrian Wood, a former long 27 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:59,200 time employee of Games Workshop, 25 years in effect. 28 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:03,120 So Adrian sent it all from the game inside the games, 29 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,200 Workshops, you know, Dark Veil or the Iron Curtain. 30 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,520 He's know, he knows everybody you know well, a great deal of 31 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,280 people within that company. And we had a great chat, very 32 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,640 wonderful guy to talk to, very open about everything. 33 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,240 First he was very reluctant to come onto the podcast but later 34 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,440 he changed his mind and reached out to me and said I want to 35 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:25,840 really want to come and have a chat with you. 36 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:30,120 So I'm really glad he did because he felt really good 37 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:38,120 about it which is lovely and we have we both have a a love of 38 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:40,800 Epic Space Marine the 2nd edition version of epic space 39 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,680 Marine. So it was really good to chat 40 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,800 about that and and I'm I'm going to bring him back in on a live 41 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,400 stream at some stage so you guys can interact with him directly 42 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,000 and and talk about all those classic articles of White Dwarf 43 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,400 and battle reports that he partook in with other members of 44 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,520 the studio staff. So that'll be really fun to look 45 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,960 forward to and more details about that in the future. 46 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:06,560 So that podcast will be the next one coming out after our chat 47 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,600 with Stompy. So I'm sure you guys are looking 48 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,200 forward to that and after that there's going to be a bit of man 49 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,200 of war with me, Chris and Cameron talking about 50 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,200 particular. Fleets and races that we like to 51 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,760 play in Man of War. As it is March Man of War Month, 52 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,480 but really it had. We haven't really delved into a 53 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:30,600 lot of Man of War stuff apart from the Kraken Wakes video that 54 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:37,040 I shared in the last little minisode that Cameron talked 55 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,120 about Man of War and how to get into it and I hope you enjoyed 56 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:47,120 that. In other news, there is a well 57 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:51,600 you can listen to the Adrian Adrian Woods interview if you if 58 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,880 you are a Patreon of mine, it's now up there on Early Access and 59 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,920 there will be also a patron exclusive because it was like a 60 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,080 almost like a three hour conversation. 61 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,520 So the first hour I've cut and edited up as an Early Access 62 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,360 before next week and then there'll there'll be another 63 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:15,200 almost two hour length sort of in the middle of that 64 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,560 conversation basically covering more personal stuff for sort of, 65 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,240 you know, the need degrees of working for big corporations 66 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,280 like gangs, workshops. So I hope that's going to be 67 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,200 really interesting for people who can access that in the 68 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,960 future. And also Speaking of the P word 69 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,640 Patreon, I did upload my very first painting video we which 70 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:42,120 centers on the Ork eagle Suns knob and just painting green 71 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,280 skin like the actual skin tone. So just focusing directly on his 72 00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:48,800 face and painting and completing that face and that'll be like a 73 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,760 stage by stage. Each week I'll upload a new 74 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,920 video the next one covering like his power claw and like his 75 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:59,520 chest plate in red and the next part may be looking at some free 76 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,520 hand. The next part looking at maybe 77 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,720 doing non metallic metals and and each week we'll have a sort 78 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,400 of a you know, 2020 minute 25 minute video. 79 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,680 They're much more in detail than the videos on my YouTube 80 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:14,520 channel. So it's basically just me 81 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,680 talking through the process and giving you tips and hints and 82 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:18,960 that kind of thing along the way. 83 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,160 So I hope that comes becomes very successful and it also 84 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:30,600 becomes a very useful and practical tutorial series with 85 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,960 the Ebola master master class underway now. 86 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,200 So I'm really excited about that. 87 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,520 I'm really glad it's out and it's it's started and it gives 88 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,720 me it. It gave me a much better way of 89 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,400 delivering those videos rather than trying to paint in a time 90 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,680 miniature in one session. It just wasn't just wasn't 91 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:51,960 practical for me to do that. So hope you can join us there at 92 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,680 Patreon and check that out if you are interested in painting. 93 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:59,960 If you're not, then you can access all the other exclusives 94 00:05:59,960 --> 00:06:04,920 or you know, sort of before they come out, kind of early access 95 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:09,640 videos or audio on there as well and support the channel. 96 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,600 Anyhow guys, I want to leave you to it with Stompy, 51 and his 97 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,880 story about how he got into this wonderful. 98 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,320 World of War gaming. Thanks very much for listening. 99 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:21,120 Take care and see you on the other side. 100 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,040 And so stoppy, thanks very much for coming to join us. 101 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,360 I am excited to be part of your kind of wider social network 102 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,440 because one thing I've learned, you know, you, you, you bring 103 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,800 together so many different people from so many different 104 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,320 facets of the hobby. You know, the old hammer kind of 105 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,320 Nottingham. Great to, you know, random 106 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,400 nobodies like me who are, you know, on their path to becoming 107 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,880 Mr. Beast in in in their in their mind's eye. 108 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:52,920 And so I I I'm excited to be here. 109 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:54,560 Mate, you you. Yeah. 110 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,360 I found I stumbled across your content. 111 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,440 I don't know how, but somewhere on YouTube it sort of popped up 112 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,720 maybe. And I just saw this Stompy 51 113 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,680 and something like a tagline with an old hammer or something. 114 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,360 So I started clicking on that, checking it out and then 115 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,520 realizing wow, you know, you do some really nice stuff. 116 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:19,080 You covered some Golden Demon 19901991, I think Books of the 117 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:24,440 time, which were fantastic, and some codexes or you know, army 118 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:25,800 books or what have you, what have you. 119 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:28,360 And you've got a a wonderful collection of miniatures from 120 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,680 your attic or garage that you pull out and bring out and 121 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,800 showcase on the channel. And it's just nice listening to 122 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,920 you talk about the history of the miniatures or the projects 123 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,240 you're working on. Well, well, I mean, that's very 124 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,960 kind of you to say. I mean by the old Hammer content 125 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:48,320 that I generate does tend to be wildly more popular than 126 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,200 everything else. But The thing is, I wouldn't 127 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,120 describe myself as an old hammer channel. 128 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,880 I I call it as a laugh, a Stompy 51 miniature adventure. 129 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,120 We can talk about why I call myself Stompy 51. 130 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,280 Silly name as it is. But the reality is it's it's, 131 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,440 it's each of us has our own personal journey in this hobby. 132 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,960 And you know, I've had my own distinct kind of journey and I 133 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,040 just thought to myself, you know, some of it can be a lonely 134 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,120 journey because there's different facets to the hobby, 135 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,440 you know, you've got assembly, modelling, you're painting, 136 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,040 you're playing and gaming, you've got law, you know. 137 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,800 But The thing is only some of that involves other people. 138 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,960 And I thought, you know, I've had my own journey. 139 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,080 I've, I've loved watching the journeys of other people, you 140 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,080 know, obscurities and miniature, you know, was one guy, Scruffy 141 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,039 Crows, another guy, Johnny Watson gaming. 142 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,799 And I thought to myself, why don't I share my own little 143 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:39,960 journey? Some of it is old Hammer, 144 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,360 because that reflects my age, the geography of where I've 145 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,520 been. But The thing is, a lot of it 146 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:46,520 just reflects great miniatures I've had. 147 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:52,240 And in many ways my channel is almost a response to the 148 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,560 downsides of Games Workshop. You know, Games Workshop has 149 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:57,000 given us all so much. I would never kick it. 150 00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:01,760 But equally by the same token, you know, as I've seen now, it's 151 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,560 been kind of backed up by a number of people who have left. 152 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,160 Their business model is, you know, we need to go big. 153 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,360 You know, we don't get out of bed for less than whatever it 154 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,520 is, 10 grand for a particular product. 155 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,680 We're not interested in in in the Grognos con yards, whatever 156 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:17,400 we're called, you know, because basically, you know, we have an 157 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,200 18 to 24 month cycle. You know, we need to grab as 158 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:22,880 much as we can from whatever the young demographic is. 159 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,760 They're only going to be in the hobby for so long. 160 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,200 And then we just replace all the books, you know, update all the 161 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,880 miniatures. And I found myself thinking, you 162 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,800 know why, why I'm not a whale. I'm not designed to be something 163 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,680 someone else's business model. You know, I've got a garage full 164 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:39,120 of of lovely miniatures and you know, just because they're kind 165 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,720 of intellectual property of some particular company which has its 166 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,240 own, you know, impetus, its own imperative to kind of constantly 167 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:47,640 keeping everyone buying you stuff. 168 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,480 You know, why do I need to do that? 169 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:53,680 There's been this explosion of miniature agnostic games, you 170 00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:56,000 know, and I do know people who are happy to play them. 171 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,080 And so why, you know, for me the fun thing is is just taking 172 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,480 these miniatures and kind of going counter culture, going 173 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,600 counter to what all these companies expect and just using 174 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,400 what you want when you want with the people that you want to play 175 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,360 with. And you know, if I can hit bash 176 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:18,080 something, you know, which is a piece of old hammer, a piece of 177 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,080 current GW plastic, a piece of something 3D printed, you know, 178 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:25,600 and then my very, very limited green stuffing skills. 179 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,760 And I can make that a distinct unique thing, which I find fun. 180 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:35,040 Well, and then get it on the table painted, you know, to play 181 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,040 someone in some some game system that though created by some 182 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,680 random guy, is much more fun and much more interesting than any 183 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:44,680 Games Workshop game. Well, for me, that's part of my 184 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:46,480 little Stumpy 51 miniature adventure. 185 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,360 I thought, why not share that? And so I would say probably a 186 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,360 good proportion of the videos are just random stuff like that, 187 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,240 you know, from random bits of collection. 188 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,240 Some of it I do open new stuff and I do a bit of unboxing. 189 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:04,080 Some of it is, you know, for me, when I'm stuck out and about on 190 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,720 my travels, you know, I can then look at the videos of all these 191 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,720 books that I've recorded and people come back with feedback, 192 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,160 you know, feedback on my miniatures. 193 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,000 It's often positive and warm and lovely, but sometimes it's like, 194 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,440 mate, you have no understanding of the color wheel. 195 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,080 Do you, You know, you painted that guy in an orange jumpsuit 196 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,560 with a kind of a flesh, you know, a skeleton kind of head, 197 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,720 and there's, there's no spot color and this thing is just 198 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,400 met, I think. Do you know what? 199 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:32,920 I've learned something. That's good, man. 200 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:33,440 I'm glad. Really. 201 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,040 I'm really glad you you, because I think it's a brave step for 202 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,880 people to to expose themselves on on YouTube. 203 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,160 It's a massive platform. There could be, you know, 204 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,560 hundreds of thousands of views. So, you know, I think it's a big 205 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:48,840 step for anybody to to merge out of their own little hobby space 206 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,000 and then make it public. You know, record it, show people 207 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,760 what you've got. Especially painting, because I 208 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:58,600 know painting is very, very much a personal thing and people are 209 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,960 just like, oh, I don't know if I want to show my stuff because I 210 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,720 don't know what reaction I'll get from people. 211 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,080 I I don't think that's really an A case that people should be 212 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,120 concerned about. I think just just doing it, 213 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,360 making the content, making something original, making 214 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,280 something for yourself and like you said, it's like a miniature 215 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,000 adventure. It's kind of like you're, you 216 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:22,080 know, you're, it's a video blog of your hobby history or the 217 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,360 projects you're working on. And for me personally, I think 218 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,360 it's just really interesting to see what you're up to, even if 219 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,960 it's not old Hammer centric. It's kind of just, you know, 220 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,560 interesting for me to have playing in the background and 221 00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:35,760 watching what you're tinkering, tinkering with on your hobby 222 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,040 disk and what you've been painting that week or that month 223 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,560 or what have you. So yeah, no thanks mate for 224 00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:43,200 making it. And I think hopefully after this 225 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,280 podcast, people will be more attracted to come and see what 226 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,560 you're doing on your YouTube channel and check out your 227 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:51,320 content there. So let's go back in time. 228 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,080 Let's pause for a moment and just just highlight that point 229 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,120 to anyone who isn't, you know, listening to this. 230 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,720 The first thing you need to do is to stop this, go onto YouTube 231 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,200 and subscribe to my channel and then come back. 232 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:03,800 Because, you know, as I discussed at the beginning of 233 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:07,120 this, I'm, I'm looking really ultimately to give Mr. Beast, 234 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,000 you know, and you know, Sniper Wolf, a run for their money. 235 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,240 You know, if if they can have like, you know, more viewers 236 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,160 than like some countries in the world, I don't see why my little 237 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,400 hobby channel can't do the same. So that's, that's what the 238 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,800 people should stop doing. The the thing I would say though 239 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,480 is, you know, we're very lucky in the hobby community. 240 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,840 You know, people are much warmer than in most parts of the 241 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,480 Internet. You know, particularly with the 242 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:31,400 politics going on these days, we're not going to talk about 243 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,440 any of it. But I've been beyond horrified 244 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:39,240 at how polarized and how nasty people are to each other online. 245 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,120 I remembered listening to to this one history podcast and 246 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,080 they were talking about I think the American Civil War, the 247 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:48,080 English Civil War. And they were they were talking 248 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,120 about how, you know, in like a kind of 50 year horizon for 249 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,440 whatever ridiculous ideological conflict, people stopped saying, 250 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,000 you know, I'm an American, you're an American. 251 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,320 We disagree. It was like I'm an American and 252 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,400 you're the sporn of Satan. And the same thing with the 253 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,040 English Civil War. You know, I'm, I'm in English, 254 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:06,880 you're not English. You know, actually you're some 255 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,000 different religion to me, you know, effectively annualist form 256 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,960 of Satan. And then after 50 years of this 257 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,240 kind of horrible fighting, there was a civil war. 258 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,240 And so there's like this long pause as everyone looks at the 259 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,400 historian and says, don't you think we're at that point now, 260 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,520 you know, in the kind of 50 year kind of, you know, trajectory 261 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,240 And the historian kind of pauses because he just realizes what he 262 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,120 said. And then he's like, yeah, so in 263 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,520 the war gaming community, we're nowhere near that. 264 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,920 We're nowhere near that although you know it was that it's that 265 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,840 by Jerry on on tabletop talking about like slaying people for 266 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,720 like using square bases instead of brown ones. 267 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,400 But other than the the round and square base kind of you know 268 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,840 division and the hobby which is often the most controversial 269 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,960 part of any new kind of miniature agnostic game. 270 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,920 I think we're a lovely bunch and people are really kind of 271 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,280 supportive. And the other funny thing that I 272 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,240 was listening to the other day is a mates of mine is in I won't 273 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,880 say the word because we'll we'll kind of, you know get picked up 274 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,000 by the wrong people. But you know there are bad guys 275 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,080 in the world who want to do many bad things and he's part of the 276 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,360 security services who kind of track them online and try 277 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,680 tracking down. And he was talking about 278 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,520 following the finances of it and he was explaining how some of 279 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,200 it's impossible to follow because there's something called 280 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,760 WADA whereby, you know, I don't know if you've heard of this. 281 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,840 If you have well done, you know, I only just heard of it. 282 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,680 Basically you you have one guy in one part of the world and you 283 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:35,000 say to him, I'll give you $1000 and can you call your mates in 284 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,640 this other country and tell him to give my mate over there 285 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,120 $1000? And those two guys trust each 286 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:44,320 other enough, they just go, OK, so nothing has been tracked, 287 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,440 nothing has gone on any system and that's impossible to follow. 288 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,560 It's called Paula. And I remember thinking the 289 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,920 gaming community is so close that if you go to like, you 290 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,520 know, old Hammer Facebook trading groups, you know, I'm, 291 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,760 I'm happy to post something to a guy in the States off the back 292 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:05,360 of him having pictures of, you know, Felix and Gottreck from 293 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,680 1992. Because my assumption is if he's 294 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,680 showed me a couple of pictures of them, you know, in different 295 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,200 positions that he's got them and someone who has Felix and 296 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,000 Gottreck isn't going to screw me over. 297 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,760 And so, you know, in terms of opening yourself up to the 298 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,200 community, you know, this is one of the most unjudgemental 299 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,600 communities out there. And we've basically got our own 300 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,680 kind of wireless system going on Facebook swaps. 301 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:26,640 The other thing I would say though in terms of kind of 302 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,920 painting and painting kind of quality, I mean, listen, I'm not 303 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:31,400 you. My painting is great. 304 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,080 I like to think of it as kind of table top plus. 305 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,920 But The thing is so many people have like this mind block about 306 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,040 painting because of the concern that they have. 307 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,760 They think that you have to be golden demon or you know what 308 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,520 was called in in in the in the white dwarf magazine is heavy 309 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,160 metal. You know, you don't need to be 310 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,160 heavy metal. You know, I'm intensely relaxed 311 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,640 about playing whole games with just an under coated army under 312 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,240 coated grey because the view I take is this is a hobby, It's 313 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,880 our hobby. You do what you want and no one 314 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,000 paints chess pieces. People have played chess their 315 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,400 entire lives and never thought they can't play because one size 316 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,200 black and one size white. You know, I played an amazing 317 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,560 game of Kings of War with my mega old Hammer Dwarf army, 318 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,240 which I've been collecting from various manufacturers for at 319 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,760 least 20 years, and none of it's painted. 320 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,800 And I've played three games of Kings of War with it. 321 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,280 I mean, obviously it's been helpful that I've won every 322 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,760 single game, but mostly because I have a lot of bombards, which 323 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,200 is naughty. But basically it's been great 324 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:35,080 fun. The opponent hasn't complained. 325 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,600 His army's painted mine's not. And so, you know, I I say to 326 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,960 people, don't hold back, just give it a go. 327 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,960 People contact me, you know, and say there was one guy, lovely 328 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,160 guy. He's F notch. 329 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,320 I think he comments on your stuff. 330 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,920 He's a Finnish guy, lovely guy. We've been exchanging messages, 331 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:54,760 you know because part of the fun of my channel is you know when 332 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,200 you're sitting in a bus stop on a train for work or whatever, 333 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,000 you know you can just look at comments and write something 334 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,520 back and you've done something fun and hobby related in what 335 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,000 was otherwise a dead period. And and he was saying to me 336 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,080 saying to me like Oh yeah, no, no, I I haven't played a game 337 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,280 because I'm waiting till I get to 1000 points painted of of old 338 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,120 hammer to go to this local group in Finland to play. 339 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,200 And I was like mate, just get on with it. 340 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,160 No one there is going to complain, you know otherwise you 341 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,600 know, you're you know you're you're at a certain age and 342 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,200 you're thinking, Gee, you know I haven't done something because I 343 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,400 was worried what people would think in this hobby. 344 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,600 No one is worried. Anyway after your your, your 345 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:31,520 Swedish to the Lovely's. The other day you said you never 346 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,560 got a word in edgeway, so I'm going to ask it quiet. 347 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:40,200 Good old Krell. Yeah they were classic bunch and 348 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,560 I'm sure I'm, I'm sure I'm going to throw in a little bit of a 349 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,560 promo about the this the what this in this case was Friday 350 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:48,640 White Live. Usually it's a Saturday White 351 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,040 live or a Sunday White Live but the boys from Sweden, Krell and 352 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,160 Jimmy join me on a Friday because I took the day off 353 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,440 because of Final Fantasy seven of all things. 354 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,560 So if you haven't checked it out go to my YouTube channel and 355 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,480 check it out. When you after you subscribe to 356 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,280 Stompy 51's channel, then go and come check out the the Saturday 357 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,600 Sunday night White White Lives, because they're quite. 358 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,120 Fantastic. Because again, one thing that 359 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:14,040 you really do with all these amazing podcasts is you give 360 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:17,880 like flavor and color to how different people have approached 361 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,160 the hobby from different angles. And for me, over the years, you 362 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,680 know, listening to a bunch of Aussies talking about Blood Bowl 363 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,480 or a bunch of Americans in the Midwest talking about, you know, 364 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,680 how they were, you know, about to go to some massive 365 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,000 convention, but then some kind of hurricane kind of went 366 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,280 through hurricane alley, which is where they live. 367 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,360 And, you know, all these things give kind of local color. 368 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,040 So hearing how, you know, there were Swedes going down to like 369 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,200 some kind of local marketplace talking to a Swedish Rastafarian 370 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,880 to try and get some old Hammer Marines and sort of some kind of 371 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,080 discount and the haggling, you know, that was great fun. 372 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:51,320 I love that. Oh mate. 373 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:52,600 Yeah, Krells. Krells the best. 374 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,240 And Jimmy too. They're just wonderful guys. 375 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,840 And interestingly too, you would before when you were talking 376 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,400 about Games Workshop and sort of attracted to the younger 377 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,800 demographic. Is that really the case? 378 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,320 Because I just saw like photos of people lining up to get the 379 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,520 old world, new rule books and it's all Gray, mate or no hair 380 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:15,600 at all. So I, I I just think, you know, 381 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,840 compared to the 90s where they're not targeting young kids 382 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,680 anymore, it's kind of like the, you know, late 30s, early 40s 383 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,400 demographic. Would that be the case do you 384 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,760 think? So look, neither of us are 385 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,400 currently sitting in their boardrooms, but there's there's 386 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,920 one podcast called The Painting Phase and they seem to have, 387 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,760 because they're quite they are younger than us, I think. 388 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:40,440 And they seem to have contact with people who have recently 389 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,920 left Games Workshop and one guy who I think was from their 390 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,280 whichever department kind of designed paints and knives and 391 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,200 whatever. He said we had some kind of 392 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,400 internal principle which was, you know, if it's not, you know, 393 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,760 we don't get out of bed for anything less than 10K. 394 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,080 You know, if there are some people who you know have some 395 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,000 kind of interesting idea which could, you know be attractive to 396 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,240 kind of old hammer guys, you know, you know, that's good for 397 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:07,720 them. They can pay off their mortgage 398 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,240 with it. But as far as we're concerned 399 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:12,520 that small beer, you know, we need something that's worth a 400 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,720 company of our size doing it. And so I think, and I'm 401 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,760 surmising here, that this whole old Warhammer and the old world 402 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,760 thing is the exception that proves the rule. 403 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:30,360 I think their internal kind of commercial ideology is, look, 404 00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:34,360 the real money is in happy to spend £100 or whatever on a 405 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:37,120 computer game. We get them to buy £100 box set. 406 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,960 They're in and out. Forget about people like me, you 407 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,240 know who who who are interested in 1520 different miniature 408 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,240 companies and have all the miniature they need till the day 409 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,040 they die. You know, I need to get 410 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,600 realistic at some point. I'm never going to paint 411 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,120 everything I have at the rate I'm painting, but I still like 412 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,920 having it. So I think what they, I think it 413 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,840 must be when they saw the success of Kings of War and they 414 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,760 thought do you know what that might tick the box of being 415 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,880 whatever sum we need to make a business case, you know for 416 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,760 return on on investment to get out of bed on this project. 417 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,800 And and I think that might be why, you know, they've already 418 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,400 run out of stock because you know, they budgeted for X amount 419 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,840 of stock it's sold and they just don't think it's worth redoing 420 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,360 it or either that or they've got some kind of massive logistics 421 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:26,880 problem going on. OK. 422 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,280 Interesting. Interesting point of view about 423 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:28,760 that. Yeah. 424 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:34,200 Because you know, for me, I mean they're not targeting me. 425 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,080 They're targeting I think the generation before me. 426 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,080 I think they're targeting the sort of the Lord of the Rings 427 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,160 crowd, personally, you. Know are they all German? 428 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,360 I know the Lord of the Rings here. 429 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,240 But there's it seems to be that that kind of there's two 430 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,480 generations, there's Heroquest generation and the Lord of the 431 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,160 Rings generation. I think the Lord of the Rings 432 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,440 generation and the people who wrote the rules are from the 433 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:58,560 guys who wrote Lord of the Rings. 434 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,360 So it all seems to fit in to me in that. 435 00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:02,640 Yeah, no, that makes sense, what I mean. 436 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,680 It's that, sort of. 35 to 45 kind of, you know, age gap where 437 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,040 they're trying to capture those guys who got into 8th edition 438 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,160 and that kind of thing. So but it's interesting you, you 439 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,160 know, we were joking before about, you know, basing being 440 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:20,000 the subject most likely to lead to a kind of the gaming civil 441 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,320 war. So the reason I haven't got into 442 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,880 this game other than the fact that, you know, there's about 50 443 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,280 gaming systems I've got that I haven't fully played out, do I 444 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,120 need a 51st gaming system? But I thought to myself, you 445 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:33,680 know I've got an Empire army on 20 mill bases. 446 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,480 There is no way I'm going to cut them up and put them on 30 mill 447 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:38,320 bases. You know, I've got Orcs and 448 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,560 Goblins not doing that. The only kind of totally 449 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,000 unassembled army I have that's not either on 20 more bases 450 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,120 square or on, you know, age of Sigma. 451 00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:53,680 Basing is scathing and scathing is like the one unsupported army 452 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,680 or woman in the old world. So I thought to myself, do you 453 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,720 know what You know, I've I've reached this kind of crazy 454 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:06,360 accumulation bit. Maybe I've never had Bretonians. 455 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,200 Who doesn't like Knights. I'll I'll get some of those. 456 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,440 So I ask my friendly local gaming store and I say, look, 457 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,000 can you order these for me? And they go, they're already out 458 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,560 of stock, kid. We'll order them when they get 459 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,880 read, when they get done. So and nothing has been 460 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,840 forthcoming. So I haven't really got involved 461 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,000 in Warhammer and the old World and I'm doing fine with Kings of 462 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,120 War. You know, my, my, my dwarves are 463 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:28,080 fight for Kings of War. My empire is fight for Kings of 464 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:29,640 War. And obviously there's Dragon 465 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:34,280 Rampant, which, you know, both of these are fantastic gaming 466 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,760 systems for people like you and me. 467 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,760 You know, we've got young youngish families. 468 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,160 You know, we have busy jobs. You know, I all the other 469 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,160 bugbear I have with some systems, particularly by Games 470 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,400 Workshop is. But there are others. 471 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,000 They think that you've got nothing else to do in the world 472 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,240 but to but can't be sucked into the micro world of their gaming 473 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,960 system. Now, you know, maybe I'm a 474 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,960 person who's a bit of a grasshopper, and I absolutely 475 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,280 am. But you know, I'm not sure in 476 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,520 this day and age if there are people who are wholly sucked 477 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,600 into one gaming system. You know, you've got the Honest 478 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,160 War Gamer. I love listening to shows 479 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,800 sometimes, but you know they are absolutely immersed in that 480 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,200 world. And I'd be interested in your 481 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,240 view, What proportion of the gaming community is genuinely 482 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:22,880 sucked into being a whale? You know who's on a hook being 483 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,520 sucked into constant cycling? Games Workshop purchases. 484 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,520 Very little in our, I think in our community like in terms of 485 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,240 modern Games Workshop stuff, it's almost 0. 486 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,240 I mean there's there's the Meld that like you know for now 487 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,120 currently there are people actively playing the old world. 488 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:45,760 But it's more about the Meld made to Order section of this 489 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,840 revival Hammer. It's it's the classic models 490 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,280 coming back the the people are more excited about that than the 491 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,680 actual game itself. I think the game is kind of 492 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,160 secondary, so. And I think. 493 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:02,320 How many of those marauder giants do you think they'll 494 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,440 sell? Because I think. 495 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,080 There's 10s of thousands, hundreds of thousands maybe, I 496 00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:09,480 don't know. But I'm really interested to see 497 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,440 how much it's going to be worth, like how much it will cost the 498 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:18,040 end dollar, because that is a hefty amount of lead and I just 499 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,840 hope and pray that people can afford it when it comes out and. 500 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,600 I'm going to, I'm going to take a punt at £55 because they 501 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,320 actually have to sell it. I reckon £150 man. 502 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,800 No, yeah, I reckon. £150 you can bank. 503 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:33,640 Well, I've got one, I've got one. 504 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,400 If someone gives me £150, you know, No, I mean, I can buy my 505 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,680 kid a bike or something. No, no, you know, I wouldn't 506 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,000 sell it. And the joke is, I think this 507 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,560 has been discussed in your channel before. 508 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,280 But most of the old Hammer stuff I have, I didn't buy in the 90s, 509 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,640 in the 80s or the 90s because I never had the money then. 510 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,760 These things were bought in the 20 tens when these things were 511 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,280 kind of just about affordable, you know, for a reasonable 512 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,280 amount of money on eBay, you know. 513 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,880 And so that's where most of my collection is from because no, 514 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,600 no one wanted an old Hammer more or the giant in in in 2012, 515 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,640 strangely. And so I was going to put this 516 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,160 question to you later, but I'll put it to you now. 517 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,600 Do you regard yourself as a hipster, you know, by being 518 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,960 interested in Old Hammer? Because, you know, isn't that 519 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,360 part of being the hipster like in those Ladybird books? 520 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,080 You know, it's people who find some more, like, esoteric 521 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,720 interest that no one really kind of follows. 522 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,800 And then they kind of pride themselves saying, well, I don't 523 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,280 do the mainstream stuff, collect like vinyl records of a certain 524 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,280 era. So, you know, maybe the Marauder 525 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,200 Giants is just going to target wargaming hipsters. 526 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,160 Maybe so, yeah, I'd I'd like. I've always been attracted to 527 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,920 games that were not so commercially successful or well 528 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,640 known, like Confrontation from Rackham, Infiniti from Corbis 529 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,640 Belly. And so during those days they 530 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,080 were very underground games, very small companies making 531 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,000 really nice products. And I've always been, I've 532 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,800 always been attracted to that kind of, you know, those games 533 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:06,400 sort of simmering under the the, you know, the popularity of of 534 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,920 gaming if that makes sense, so. I think, look, there's I think 535 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,600 you've got to distinguish between companies with a system 536 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,280 which was good, but they never knew how to run a business And 537 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,000 they went by, yeah, they went versus you know, companies 538 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,920 where, you know, the gaming system wasn't that great, you 539 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,760 know, and that's why it kind of went fast. 540 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:27,760 Yeah. So yeah, I'm. 541 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,720 I'm always interested to see what the smaller company's doing 542 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,360 even more now. I think because there's so many 543 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:37,440 good companies out there making the most beautiful models, if 544 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,200 not just the game itself, but beautiful artwork and that kind 545 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,840 of thing. I'm more attracted to that than 546 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,240 them sort of the mainstream type gaming companies and their games 547 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,960 and miniatures, I think. I think the smaller companies 548 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,600 are just more and more interesting to me personally. 549 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,680 Well, there's a lot, there's a lot of innovation amongst these 550 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,920 smaller companies because if you're in a bigger company and 551 00:28:59,920 --> 00:29:02,600 people listening who aren't bigger companies, they know 552 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,520 that, you know, it's quite hard to kind of just change thinking, 553 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:08,640 you know. And and there's all these 554 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,760 articles that have been written around like I'm trying to 555 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:17,760 remember is it there was one company that they they were the 556 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,840 big kind of like zero. Maybe it was Xerox or something. 557 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,600 They did all the the photocopying machines and they 558 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,400 knew that digital was coming. They knew that digital cameras 559 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,520 were coming. But The thing is they it was so 560 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,200 politically dodgy internally to kind of basically pioneer the 561 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,680 end of your own company. And you know that they just 562 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,560 didn't do anything. And then ultimately someone else 563 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,080 picked up the idea and just kind of changed the grass, grew under 564 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,200 their feet, changed the entire environment. 565 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,520 And then they just went bust. They went, they went to kind of 566 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,520 be being a nothing. And so I think that that is one 567 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,080 of the advantages of, you know, all these little companies who 568 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,000 come up with their little ideas. And I mean in many ways, a lot 569 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,240 of the games that I play, like Xenos Rampant, Dragon Rampant, 570 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,680 I'm going to embarrass myself because I'm so bad at names. 571 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,520 Is it Daniel Mersey, You know, so he's come up with, you know, 572 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,640 this amazing high level conceptual system where you 573 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,640 know, you don't need to have like exact points for exact, you 574 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,040 know, IP protected kind of units. 575 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,360 You just conceptually have 10 different kind of units. 576 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,080 You can sex them up, you can sex them down and you can use this 577 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,720 kind of sandbox system for absolutely anything. 578 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,840 And it kind of got changed to be also for the Pazenos rampant, 579 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,080 you know, which is kind of not just fantasy but kind of 580 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,160 everything from World War One to kind of, you know, June if you 581 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:36,840 want to play it. And there's so much kind of 582 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,360 creativity in that which I think bigger companies just don't risk 583 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,760 and so many of these Games Workshop systems. 584 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,800 Amazing. The Games Workshop is, you know, 585 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,760 you buy the book and I used to buy it with trust thinking if 586 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,560 they charged me £30 for it, they must have thought this through. 587 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,440 They must have made this a playable game that is now a 588 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,080 stable game that, you know, I can keep going with for for for 589 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,360 a few years. And instead, you know, you buy 590 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,120 these games, you know, they're not that slick, that they're 591 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,120 full of mistakes, they're not necessarily that fun. 592 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,400 And then they have the cheek after like 2-2 years to say, oh, 593 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,040 we're releasing another edition and the £60 you spent on all 594 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:14,840 these books, you can, you can torch, you flush it down the 595 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,240 loop, which is exactly what's happening with Age of Sigma. 596 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:22,040 You know, I find, you know, I play Age of Sigma because there 597 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,840 are other guys at the perennial local gaming store who do, and 598 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,160 I've got gorgeous miniatures and the game is just about all 599 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,200 right, you know, it's not one of the best systems I've played. 600 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,400 I, I, I bought a couple of of newish rule books about a year 601 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,840 ago. And I was just listening to the 602 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:42,240 Honest War Game YouTube channel. And he was proudly explaining 603 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,640 how, you know, there's new Scaven out because Scaven are 604 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,080 going to be in the box set for the 4th edition of Age of Sigma. 605 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,640 And I was like, are you kidding? Nice. 606 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,200 Yeah, so. I think. 607 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,600 I think miniature agnostic games are just gaining popularity 608 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,920 these days, even though I'm not a big fan of miniature agnostic 609 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,040 games. I like. 610 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,760 I like the company to give me the rule set. 611 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,240 I like them to give me the miniatures. 612 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,200 I like them to provide everything for me as one solid 613 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,520 package. But I can see I can see the 614 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,400 advantages of having miniature agnostic games for someone like 615 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,200 yourself or other. People have an enormous range of 616 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,560 models, things like what's the other one? 617 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,400 Shadows shadow shadow deep. Range of the Shadow Deep. 618 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,720 I've never played that. It looks like a really 619 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,280 interesting system. I like the concept of it and 620 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,880 it's like you can bring all your old school, you know, D&D models 621 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,560 and you know, use those in games and you know, make terrain and 622 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,680 that kind of thing as a solo experience. 623 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,440 I think that's a really cool idea. 624 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,720 I've never got to play it though, but I think I like the 625 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,280 concept of it. Look, I absolutely don't want to 626 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,720 kick Games Workshop on this score because as you say, there 627 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,360 are upsides and downsides to everything. 628 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:52,040 And the downside of you know, I would say even Zenos Rampant or 629 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:57,240 of Dragon Rampant is, you know they're not necessarily that 630 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,600 crunchy as systems. And also you know it's sometimes 631 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,400 quite hard to you know if you want to have the idea of a dwarf 632 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:10,680 conceptually as you know rugged with heavy armor but slow moving 633 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,960 and high morale, you can part you can do that through these 634 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,160 kind of sandbox systems. But it it, it doesn't quite feel 635 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,080 like a dwarf. You know, it's kind of like when 636 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,280 you watch Star Trek and they make gags around, you know, when 637 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,720 that, you know, they have that kind of artificial like 3D print 638 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,120 that kind of makes food and they always make the joke like, oh, 639 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:29,840 you know, this doesn't taste like real peanut butter, you 640 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,480 know, You know what I mean? There is a degree of that with 641 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,000 with these miniature agnostic systems. 642 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,680 So they have their place. But equally, you know, having 643 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:38,680 something where someone has carefully thought through the 644 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,360 law behind this and match the exact, you know, points and 645 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,880 system to the law for that little creature. 646 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,240 I mean that that is a fantastic thing in itself. 647 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,400 The problem I have is that the grass grows on your feet every 648 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,120 time you step onto one of these systems. 649 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,000 You know, by the time I bought it, I played two games. 650 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,240 You know, because time moves slowly for me, you know, to 651 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,360 actually have a job and a family and then suddenly there's 652 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,280 another addition and then you know, there's another layout or 653 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,320 the most insulting thing, they expect you to rebase, which as 654 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,760 we've described, it's just a great way to start a riot in our 655 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,480 in our community. Yeah, please do not rebase your 656 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,159 miniatures. It's the only thing I'll say to 657 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:13,960 people. Don't rebase them. 658 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,159 It's always better. It's always easy to go up then 659 00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:19,320 rather going back. You know the when you go up, you 660 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,280 can't go back. So you can increase the base, 661 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,520 yeah, And then, well, anyhow, it's up to people's personal 662 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,080 preferences. But look. 663 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,600 I've I've I've sterilized my Auch and Goblin 7th edition army 664 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,520 because I rebased it for Age of Sigma and then they removed orcs 665 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,880 and goblins you know from age of Sigma. 666 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,600 And. I don't and I'm and I've 667 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,080 abandoned it, you know, I'm. I'm just not doing it. 668 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,040 You know they are now the Dragon Rampant Army. 669 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,239 You know and and and so what's it called? 670 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,880 Saga Age of Magic. That's another nice. 671 00:34:53,159 --> 00:34:54,840 That's another one. I'll be interested. 672 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:55,840 It's. Kind of. 673 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,800 Resource based system which is quite fun. 674 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,520 That looks really cool too. I'm I'm really interested in 675 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:02,320 actually in playing that and giving it a go. 676 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:03,720 Actually, I think that might be a good game. 677 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:06,480 But anyhow, look, we're going to take a quick commercial break 678 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,520 and we'll be back in just a moment to talk more about your 679 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,040 history and how you got into war gaming. 680 00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:15,480 If you are enjoying this podcast and the content on the Chronic 681 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,600 Command Games YouTube channel, then please consider supporting 682 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,960 me on Patreon. Becoming a Storm Boy allows you 683 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,320 access to behind the scene news information of upcoming podcast 684 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,880 guests and themes, video battle reports and occasionally 685 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,480 exclusive podcasts with special guests or fellow patrons. 686 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,720 And coming soon are painting videos which we made to give you 687 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:41,520 the skills and tips on painting in the red period using modern 688 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,600 paints and practical applications. 689 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,360 And you can also access one to one painting lessons in the 690 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,960 heavy LED Master class tier for a 40 minute personalized 691 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:56,360 painting lesson. So check out patreon.com/the 692 00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,680 Crown of Command podcast. OK. 693 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,960 So thanks and welcome back after that. 694 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:08,120 Short little promo and we were talking about various different 695 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:14,800 things with Stompy about the miniature agnostic games that 696 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,360 you're interested in and that kind of thing. 697 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,160 And I I think they're taking more prevalence in the smaller 698 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,800 companies out there making rule sets for those because you know 699 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,560 to endeavour upon making an actual miniature range is quite 700 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,280 an expensive outlay for any small company. 701 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,600 So just making rules to adapt to the miniature ranges you have 702 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:38,480 seems like a much more of a better proposition to most 703 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:40,840 people out there, I think in smaller companies. 704 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,320 And I think is it Osprey games, You know their whole business 705 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,560 model has been fantastic. They're almost like it's kind of 706 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,560 like, you know, seed investment capitalists, you know, where 707 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:59,920 they they'll have a portfolio of like you know 20, a hundred 708 00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:02,840 start-ups understanding that like 95 of them are going to 709 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,240 fail. But one of them is going to be 710 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:10,320 like, you know, Google and or Amazon or whatever and they do 711 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,360 well out of it. I mean the Osprey's hit rate, I 712 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,160 would say to be fair is a lot better than that. 713 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:18,680 But, you know, to be cruel but fair, you know, one or two are 714 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,360 great concepts, but, you know, they could have done with a bit 715 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,840 more play testing and they don't kind of have legs, albeit some 716 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,120 of them, I don't know why they die. 717 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,160 I mean there's Dracula's America, for example, which is 718 00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:33,680 basically the, you know, miniature's agnostic kind of 719 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:39,760 cowboy game with, you know, unbelievable depth of law for 720 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,000 all manner of kind of esoteric fantastical elements. 721 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,040 And, you know, it didn't seem to do well. 722 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,440 The author felt a bit bad. He sort of posted and said, you 723 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,680 know, they've said, you know, it hasn't sold like they hoped and 724 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,200 you know, so there's not going to be any kind of follow-ups. 725 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,520 But I've played, I've played it loads in my local gaming store 726 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,760 and it kind of unlocks you playing with obviously all the 727 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,520 amazing War games, Foundry, Cowboys, you know, all you know, 728 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,480 I think Black Scorpion miniatures Cowboys and then a 729 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,400 lot of the North Star kind of weird and wonderful. 730 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,360 The 19th century creatures from Gothic Law. 731 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,760 Right. Yeah, there's so many, there's 732 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,320 so many good things. Like I recently came across a 733 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,120 game called Lucid Eye, and I don't know if you're familiar 734 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,720 with that, but basically it's a, it looks like a small British 735 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,720 company, and they've got Rick Priestly to design the rules for 736 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:34,160 it. And it's all basically like 737 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,480 elves versus elves kind of thing the whole. 738 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,560 This is why I think there's only one race. 739 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,920 Is the Red Book of the Elf King. So Lucid eyes name of the 740 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,200 company and and again I haven't played that game but the 741 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,200 miniatures are brilliant because it's a beautiful solid. 742 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,200 So there's a number of sculptors and they would definitely grab 743 00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:55,680 your right because you and I think share an eye for a certain 744 00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,160 kind of miniature you know so but in Contra distinction like 745 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,160 you know people who go mad on 3D sculpting with Z brush and every 746 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,920 micro detail is there and the hands are the right size and the 747 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,480 weapons are very thin. You know, I'm not interested in 748 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,040 that. You know, I like the kind of 749 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:19,760 Nick Polya, Matt Bickley, Mark Copleston kind of concept of. 750 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:25,200 You just need enough detail on there to differentiate it from 751 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,440 what it's not so people can see what it is and people will enjoy 752 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,680 painting it. And it's got kind of pronounced 753 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,120 but not unusual or ridiculous kind of features. 754 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,960 And that's my kind of miniature, and I think that's why Old 755 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,720 Hammer retains its kind of Brad for so many people. 756 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,560 You know in in 50 years time, all that Old Hammer, Trish 757 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,640 Morrison stuff from the late 80s will still be amazing. 758 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,800 Whereas how many people will have even the lovely Warhammer 759 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,160 underworlds plastic scalps from Games Workshop and think that's 760 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,280 brilliant? Yeah now the the when you when 761 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,080 you said Matt Bickley their their new Viking range for 762 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,000 Futsal is coming to Kickstarter soon. 763 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,120 Which looks absolutely incredible. 764 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,320 But I've never, I've never seen Viking models look so good the 765 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,840 way he's posed them, the way he is, you know, giving them sort 766 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,920 of like they're moving or they give them some kind of dynamic 767 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,800 pose. But yeah, they. 768 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,720 Want these metal sculpts? Yes, one piece metal sculpt. 769 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,240 That's right. Yeah, that's right. 770 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:24,200 Exactly. And I love One Piece metal 771 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,440 sculpts after coming through the through the Academy or putting 772 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,640 Infinity miniatures together for many years and is saying that's 773 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,120 it. That's the last Infinity 774 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:34,680 miniature I'll ever put together. 775 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:38,600 You're having those One Piece miniatures is just so nice. 776 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,520 It's such it makes it makes cleaning and assembly just a joy 777 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,760 rather than the absolute labor. So they look amazing. 778 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,280 So they're again like I like, I like on table tops with Jerry's 779 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,800 Indie of the Week. I really enjoy that segment more 780 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,720 than anything else because it's basically showcasing someone out 781 00:40:56,720 --> 00:41:00,520 there with an incredible range of miniatures that you know they 782 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,240 make. And it's always something new 783 00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:04,560 that I've never discovered before. 784 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,160 I was even looking at Foundry's website yesterday. 785 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,680 They're historicals for like Barron's War, because I was 786 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,240 looking for some like peasants and that kind of thing to use as 787 00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:19,040 green troops and they've got a wonderful range which is not 788 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,440 that expensive and they're all beautifully hand sculpted, 789 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,000 designed by, I believe the Perry's even they've even got. 790 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,280 Like. They've even got like the old 791 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:33,720 original Citadel Barons, which are really nice too, so. 792 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,280 I think there was some case. I tried to find it for a laugh 793 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,720 on one of the search engines, you know, there was. 794 00:41:40,720 --> 00:41:44,400 I think there was some case which sort of said, you know, 795 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,040 that a consultant basically owns the intellectual property to 796 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,480 what they've sculpted unless there's some kind of contractual 797 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,840 arrangement otherwise. And they and I think Games 798 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,720 Workshop just couldn't put its hand on all the contracts with 799 00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:57,320 all those sculptors from the late 80s. 800 00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:02,520 And So what Games Foundry was like great, you know, designed 801 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,400 by the Perry's. Perry's have said we could use 802 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,320 them. And so you often see on eBay 803 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,760 some very naughty people who I think must know better. 804 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,320 Taking those kind of barons war figures from the late 80s and 805 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,160 saying OOP. I'm like mate, those are not 806 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,320 OOP. Yeah, that's right. 807 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,400 I I saw on Nick's channel, Medieval War Gamer. 808 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,800 He's doing the Barons War so campaigns at the moment and he's 809 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:31,200 he's got one miniature that is from the war games foundry that 810 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,040 he bought in the 90s when he was studying at university there. 811 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,080 And that miniature for me just stands out from all the other 812 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,400 stuff because it looks so cool. It looks so old. 813 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,120 Hammer. It looks like something out of 814 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,400 like the third edition rulebook for Warhammer Fantasy. 815 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:46,440 You know, it's so cool. I love it. 816 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:48,760 There's something about that. There's something about those 817 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,840 old miniatures and this this style which they were designed 818 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,400 that just pulls me to them so much more than a lot of this 819 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,280 modern overly detailed too extravagant type of miniatures. 820 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:00,040 You know what I mean? It's. 821 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,000 I suppose it depends on the setting, but yeah, I think 822 00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,840 simple is better. And it's not just a Games 823 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:11,440 Workshop thing, of course. You know, for example, today I, 824 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,320 between various things, finish painting a trolkin miniature 825 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:20,800 from what's it called? What's that game called? 826 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:27,560 It's set like in a steampunk universe and it was very big by 827 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,880 Privateer Press for many, many years. 828 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,240 Suddenly just went quiet like War machine the whole. 829 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:36,080 And so I can't I have these mind blanks, which is why I prerecord 830 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:38,280 stuff of course, rather than live and brave like you. 831 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,320 And this miniature is a beautiful miniature. 832 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:46,240 And these troll kin, they're basically like steampunk towel 833 00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:50,760 and this guy's holding this humongous like kill every mother 834 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,200 stuffer in the room. Kind of like hand cannon and 835 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:59,720 even just flogged all my Troll Kins years ago because I thought 836 00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:02,760 this game was going nowhere and it was too fiddly in the 1st 837 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:04,320 place. I thought even though it was 838 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,440 very popular, but I kept this miniature and then I realized 839 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:13,280 that there's effectively a similar kind of unit type in man 840 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,920 to games Dead zone. And I thought the moment has 841 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,960 come for this miniature. You know he can enter the stage, 842 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,320 he's going to be painted and it'll be a game in the next few 843 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,160 weeks and he will, he will, he will be great. 844 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,280 And I looked at it and even though it was a beautiful one 845 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,720 piece miniature, there was just so much unnecessary detail. 846 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:31,760 I don't know if a sculptor is big into kind of like leather 847 00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,080 and you know, buckles and whatever. 848 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,480 There were so many things that like someone like Nick Collier 849 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,800 or Mark Coppleson would have just said you don't need that. 850 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,120 It doesn't add anything. It's going to irritate the 851 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,200 person playing it. No one is so painting it, no one 852 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,640 playing it is going to see it. You know, to give you an 853 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,800 example, it's a great little detail, but this guy has big 854 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,160 huge hands. These troll kin are like towel 855 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:59,520 with oversized hands and and slightly orkish comedy and he's 856 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,680 wearing and he's holding this huge massive mega cannon fine 857 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,320 and he's wearing like gloves that I bought. 858 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:08,480 They're called gloves that don't like have your fingertips. 859 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,400 And I looked myself and it took me a long time to realize 860 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,080 halfway through the paint job that his whole hand wasn't going 861 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:15,680 to be blue. Half his hands was going to be 862 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:17,360 blue. And I was going to have to form 863 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:20,080 some kind of executive decision on what color the gloves were 864 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,560 going to be in circumstances where he's wearing a massive 865 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,600 leather jacket full of buckles all over the place and and and 866 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,040 silver. And I thought, why? 867 00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,840 Why have they? This is a hobby you write, why 868 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:31,880 they created an unnecessary problem for me. 869 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,360 So, you know, I think unnecessary detail is just 870 00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,120 something that people should think about if they're 871 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,360 sculpting. Well, I say that, but I paint, I 872 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,320 paint a lot of the confrontation miniatures from Rackham back in 873 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,200 the, you know, late 90s, early 2000s, which I absolutely adore. 874 00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,160 And then they they, you know, they set the president for like 875 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,320 overly detailed models. But I love them. 876 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,160 You know, I I enjoy that challenge of painting those 877 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:59,400 models because they're so beautifully, exquisitely, you 878 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,080 know, designed and made so it it yeah, it depends. 879 00:46:03,120 --> 00:46:06,600 For me it really depends because that is like each individual 880 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,400 model is like a character model. It's not we're not playing 881 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,680 Warhammer where you have regiments of various different 882 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:17,520 similar, you know design models. This is like these three goblins 883 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,840 are all differently posed. They're all got their own 884 00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:23,280 different identity and you know, that's wonderful. 885 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:26,600 I think that's their charm in the in a small skirmish game 886 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,760 like that. So it's you know, it's whatever, 887 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,160 whatever, whatever people desire. 888 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:34,960 Some people thrive on details. Some people like the simplicity 889 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:39,440 of the older designs and and you know I suppose historical 890 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,400 gaming. Now that I've sort of looked at 891 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,480 that a little bit more, I like the heraldry and you can have a 892 00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,920 very simple looking night. But then with a with a 893 00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:52,880 particular paint job and the and his, you know, motifs or colors 894 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,760 and that kind of thing can make a big difference. 895 00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:59,160 The heraldry is, I've always found, very challenging. 896 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,840 You know, you've got to be an actual artist to be able to do 897 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:04,920 that kind of thing. But The thing is, what becomes 898 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,880 particularly complex is most of the places where the heraldry 899 00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:11,200 appears aren't flat. So you've now got to imagine 900 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,160 what this, like double headed eagle is going to look like on 901 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,920 some kind of fold of a cloak. And I'm like, mate, that's like 902 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:21,360 a level of artistic, you know, intelligence that I just don't 903 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,160 have. And it does. 904 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,200 You have it, but not everywhere else is. 905 00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,120 So mate, look, we're going to talk about how you got into 906 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:31,960 miniature gaming. We're sort of done, we've sort 907 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,520 of done this back to front, so. That's all right. 908 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,960 Listen, we're assuming people are still listening or, you 909 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,280 know, they're sitting there. They're sitting there painting. 910 00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,320 That's we hope so we hope. So we hope they. 911 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,360 I mean what I would say is you know you've got to give people a 912 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:50,200 sense on on when we you have chats like this that we aren't 913 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,760 actually talking about the hobby because there's this balance 914 00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,760 between all these like really fun and funky kind of anecdotes 915 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,440 which have nothing to do with gaming but give life to who we 916 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:00,960 are and the prison through which we see gaming. 917 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:02,720 But equally you will talk about the hobby. 918 00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:05,920 So it's done well. So I I I collected some thoughts 919 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,440 that by all means interject, because I recognize that you 920 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:09,200 know. Please. 921 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:10,520 Go for a. Conversation. 922 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,760 So did you just tell us what was the catalyst? 923 00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:14,880 What got what got you into war gaming? 924 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,920 Was it through your friends or fathers or, you know, was it 925 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,920 through just going by a game store one day and picking 926 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,240 something up? But we're talking like earliest 927 00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:25,160 childhood here. You know, they talk about the 928 00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:27,280 kind of collected gene. But I I had the war game in 929 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,000 Gene. So, you know, when I was like, 930 00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,360 so, so I think my, my, my, my mom in particular had a massive 931 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:33,760 interest in kind of like history. 932 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,560 And so she would see things and then just buy them for me, you 933 00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,040 know, thinking oh, you know, vicariously, you know, my kid, 934 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,560 my kid will have the the interest I do. 935 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,440 And it was an amazing gift she gave me. 936 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:50,760 And so I grew up in South Africa and I don't know exactly what 937 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,360 they were. They must have been, they might 938 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,080 have been Airfix, but Airfix obviously did 172. 939 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:59,200 But I did a range of like 54mm, kind of like, you know, there 940 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,840 were Egyptians, there were Romans, There were only like, I 941 00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:03,800 think 12 in the pack. And they were huge. 942 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,080 And you know, the kid couldn't swallow them. 943 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:07,960 So when I was like two or three, she might have bought them for 944 00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:09,560 me. And so I used to play with 945 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,920 those. And then if you think about it, 946 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,240 you know, all the movies that we watch as kids are gearing us up 947 00:49:15,240 --> 00:49:18,560 to be, you know, gearing you up to be a gamer, you know, So, so 948 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:20,160 obviously there was like all the history stuff. 949 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,280 There was a military History Museum in Johannesburg with all 950 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,320 the tanks and stuff that they basically captured in North 951 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,040 Africa. And they had this amazing 952 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:32,400 moratorium where they would play like, you know, the best, like 953 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,600 military movies of like the, you know, the 60s and 70s, like the 954 00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,200 guns of Navarone and Battle of Britain. 955 00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,240 And you know, all of that stuff. And I used to go watch it. 956 00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:44,880 And then obviously there was all the sci-fi stuff, you know, the 957 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,440 the cartoons and sci-fi stuff and fantasy stuff, which you 958 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,280 might not think of as fantasy. But, you know, if you look at 959 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,200 like Burrows and badges, you know, like animals set in a kind 960 00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,000 of medieval setting with weapons and a bit of politics running, 961 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,200 you know, I used to love watching the secrets of Nim. 962 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,520 I watched it so many times. I don't know if you know that 963 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,240 there, if you ever saw that cartoon like Don Bluth, I think, 964 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,440 and you know, it was all about these kind of like rats. 965 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,440 You know, they're basically scathing, you know, living in 966 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,360 this farmhouse, like these small Scaven having their own kind of 967 00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,600 like, you know, Game of Thrones of all fights and stuff. 968 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,080 And I and I love that as a kid. And you have The Black Cauldron 969 00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,120 and the Sword and the Stone and Disney's Robin Hood and all 970 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,440 that. And then in terms of sci-fi, you 971 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,320 know, I've watched the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. 972 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,760 And so for me, and it's continued to this day and I hear 973 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,040 other people talking about this. You know, the miniatures that 974 00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,200 you choose to play with or paint that week are the ones that you 975 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,560 were inspired to do. So like something you've seen in 976 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,440 popular culture or book you've read or ATV program you've seen. 977 00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,920 And so for me, from the earliest age, I would kind of reenact out 978 00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,960 the things I've seen with the with the kind of these plastic 979 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:52,040 miniatures I had. And I remember my mom also got 980 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,000 me these, I think they're they're called Britons. 981 00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,480 They were very expensive, so we couldn't buy too many. 982 00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,960 But they were like these kind of like lead figures that were kind 983 00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:01,800 of painted. And I think she got me some 984 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:06,600 Germans and Brits from World War 2 and our and and this quite big 985 00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:12,640 plastic German U boat toy. And I remember there was, I was 986 00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,560 only 6 and I was talking to this mate of mine and he said this 987 00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:17,080 stuff is amazing. He goes, do you have any more of 988 00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,200 this? And and I said, yeah, yeah. 989 00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,080 And I've got all of this stuff. You know, I've got like a little 990 00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:22,920 U boat port like from this particular movie. 991 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,160 And I've got like loads of these Brits and loads of these 992 00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:26,440 Germans. And he looks at me, he goes, you 993 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:27,640 don't do you. I was like, no, I don't. 994 00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,120 But I wish I did. I imagine that I will one day. 995 00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:38,120 And and then there was this like after school kind of club where 996 00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,440 they where there was this guy's he's passed now his name was Les 997 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,680 Netherton and he used to write these books about model 998 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,960 airplanes but not plastic kind of ethics airplanes, but the 999 00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,960 ones that you kind of construct out of wood like you know stick 1000 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,080 an elastic band on turn you know turn the propeller and kind of 1001 00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,120 throw through a park. And the and I went, you know 1002 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,800 when I was like 10 years old, 1011 and it was very fiddly and 1003 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,320 I used to love it. It was with balsa wood. 1004 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,440 But the but The thing is, after a while I thought to myself, you 1005 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,400 know, I'm spending ages making these planes. 1006 00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,200 You know, you get out there, you know, you pull your elastic 1007 00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:16,280 band, you watch this little plane soar through the sky and 1008 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:21,080 then it smacks into a tree and there's all these struts. 1009 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,400 And, you know, you've got to get this paper and, you know, this 1010 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,280 particular kind of glue and, you know, it's it's basically the 1011 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:32,040 same as being like, you know, a ground engineer in the middle of 1012 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,520 the Battle of Britain, Like, why must I spend, like the next two 1013 00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:36,760 weeks fixing this thing up to smash it into a tree again, This 1014 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:41,400 is pointless, you know, And and I thought, look, no one's going 1015 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:44,800 to care if I just rock up with some ethics, you know, planes 1016 00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,960 And. And he was a lovely guy. 1017 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,320 He'd basically been in the war in South African Air Force in 1018 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,120 North Africa. And he used to always tell us 1019 00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,640 stories. You know, if you're 11, it's 1020 00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:58,200 fantastic. He used to say like, oh, like 1021 00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:01,440 once we captured this, this German pilot, you know, we shot 1022 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,000 him down and we drove him back to the base. 1023 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:04,920 And you know, he's sort of sitting there with his kind of 1024 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,240 like Iron Cross or whatever and standing there, you know, his 1025 00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:10,840 full kind of, you know, uniform, you know, sticks out of see how 1026 00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,200 arm to show us. You know, you might have 1027 00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:13,600 captured me, but we're going to win the war. 1028 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,040 And all of us S Africans are also sitting there probably like 1029 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:19,000 Aussies, like, you know, wearing half of our own clothes, half of 1030 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,400 official uniform, you know, and and swearing and saying, you 1031 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:23,760 know, we may just get on with it. 1032 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:26,200 Anyway. So he was like and he he liked 1033 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,200 me and he was supportive of of my various efforts. 1034 00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,200 But he used to sort of say to me, like he said, listen kids, 1035 00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,320 you know you are, you are an absolute grasshopper. 1036 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,880 You know, you just, you just leap from one scale to another 1037 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:44,320 and you know you need to focus. And I was like, why do I need to 1038 00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:45,920 focus? Who cares that some of my 1039 00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,760 miniatures are on 172 scale and some of my miniatures are in, 1040 00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,520 you know, 156 scale, Who cares? These are just toys. 1041 00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:57,560 And in many ways that that is the nature of my channel. 1042 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,520 You know, there's a lovely guy, I think, I don't know him at 1043 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:01,680 all. He's got a channel. 1044 00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,720 It's called Scruffy Crow at the moment. 1045 00:54:03,720 --> 00:54:09,080 He's, he's diligently pursuing Warhammer in the Old World Army 1046 00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:13,960 using miniatures from I think the 90s and early 2000s, you 1047 00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,720 know, from the Beastman range. And he's been collecting these 1048 00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:18,520 diligently. He's been basing them 1049 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,520 diligently. He's been painting them and then 1050 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:23,920 he's going to play with them. And you know, for me actually, 1051 00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,680 I've got like 10 or 20 different projects kind of steaming along 1052 00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,840 at different speeds. And as time goes on, I kind of 1053 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,960 like top each one up. And I like to think they're all 1054 00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,920 getting somewhere. But even if they don't get 1055 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,280 somewhere, I've got enough to be doing in each case. 1056 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,200 So I'm still that kind of grasshopper kid. 1057 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:49,040 And then over time, you know, I just thought to myself, I, I I 1058 00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,560 really want to have that kind of, I want to be able to play 1059 00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:53,720 with this stuff. What's the point of just 1060 00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:55,440 building it? But remember, I'm only 10 or 11 1061 00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:01,040 and I used to go to like the WH Smith, you know, CNA. 1062 00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:03,520 It was called with my parents and they used to look at the 1063 00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,240 papers and buy a magazine maybe. And I would go look at the War 1064 00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:11,440 Games Illustrated magazine, which we could get, and War 1065 00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,720 Games Illustrated would have, you know, miniatures by the 1066 00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:16,480 Perry's line drawings. There weren't too many photos in 1067 00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:18,480 it because I think it was expensive to have color pages. 1068 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,720 So a lot of line drawings but there would be loads of articles 1069 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,120 on kind of how to build buildings how to build ships and 1070 00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:29,400 there was one article that was like it it it just changed my 1071 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,600 hobby understanding there was 1 bloke of you know in some pretty 1072 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,280 suburb of England, which for me as a kid you know who knew where 1073 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,000 that was. And he obviously had a lot of, 1074 00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:42,680 he had a tiled garden with grass, whatever. 1075 00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:44,480 And he had like these flower beds. 1076 00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:50,480 And what he did was he basically recreated like an imaginary 19th 1077 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:55,920 century Europe like a kind of risk board with, you know, like 1078 00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,320 the the Austro, Hungarian Empire, Britain, Germany, in 1079 00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:05,520 different parts of his garden out of concrete and plaster with 1080 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:06,880 like these little towns and cities. 1081 00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:10,440 And he made like little ports. And then he built these like 1082 00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:16,000 pocket battleships, basically. And he had and he painted these 1083 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:22,480 must be 50 some whatever the Britain scale is, you know, it 1084 00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:24,880 can't be 75, it must be 52 mil, something like that. 1085 00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:28,720 And he built armies for them. And he did an article in What 1086 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,760 Games Illustrated about how he would basically do solo gaming 1087 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:36,440 in his garden or you know, battles of on the high seas, you 1088 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,600 know, in the 1850s, eighteen 90s, whatever it was with the 1089 00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,440 occasional kind of land battle. And I thought to myself, do you 1090 00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,160 know what? We've got a table tennis table 1091 00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:47,840 at home. I'm not a sporty guy. 1092 00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,280 You know, I've played on this thing twice. 1093 00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,720 I'll ask my parents if they don't mind me in the spare room 1094 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,560 opening up the table tennis table because, you know, in 1095 00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:57,640 South Africa we had more space. In the UK this would be 1096 00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:59,800 unimaginable. I don't know what Oz is like. 1097 00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,000 But yeah, in South Africa there was, you know, we had space in 1098 00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:07,200 in in homes more than people do in in in Northern Europe. 1099 00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:12,120 And and I thought we've got all this like cupboards stuff in 1100 00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,520 this room and what I'll do is I'll take my kind of like 172 1101 00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:18,800 scale little miniatures, you know these tanks and these 1102 00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:24,360 planes and and all of that. I used to collect Eshy and 1103 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,880 ethics figures which are one 7220 more scale. 1104 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:32,280 And I I've, you know, I've forgotten the name. 1105 00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,680 It might be Osborne. But they used to produce these 1106 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:40,800 books with cardboard pages where you would cut out like a castle 1107 00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:45,960 or a medieval village or a Viking village and you would 1108 00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,080 glue it together with kind of white glue. 1109 00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,440 And I thought, great, so I've got like little towns and cities 1110 00:57:53,560 --> 00:57:56,120 and I would delineate like with string the borders of these 1111 00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:01,400 different imaginary countries. And then I built like these 1112 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:05,720 little ships with like very Games Workshop 1980s, you know, 1113 00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:11,720 with like bits of like, you know kitchen roll and and and you 1114 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,280 know cans and things and I and I and I made some, you know, what 1115 00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,240 I thought were quite impressive little battleship. 1116 00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:18,240 You know, there's loads of food that comes in something, you 1117 00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:24,120 know, something broad the shape of of a, you know, a, you know, 1118 00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,560 the line of a battleship with straws for guns and things. 1119 00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:29,600 And my mum was like said this is great. 1120 00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:33,040 She even played with me once. But, but The thing is, I had no 1121 00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,240 understanding of rules because, you know, this is before the 1122 00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,880 Internet. You're not connected into what 1123 00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,040 are the actual systems. It didn't occur to me that you 1124 00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,200 could use dice for this. And So what I would do is I 1125 00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:47,560 would take wooden clothes pegs and I would, I'd take one peg 1126 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,480 and I'd attach like the other pegs. 1127 00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:51,960 So this thing was basically a bomb because they're not really 1128 00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:53,560 that well attached. If you Chuck this thing and it 1129 00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,080 goes kaboom. And then basically I would just, 1130 00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,240 you know, when countries declared war on each other, you 1131 00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,480 know, I would just have these like little bombs and I would 1132 00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,080 just sort of Chuck it. And whoever basically had 1133 00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,680 whichever had the most figures called down, they lost, you 1134 00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:08,840 know. And this was great fun to do as 1135 00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:14,840 a 10 or 11 year old. And it was also again, so I 1136 00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:19,520 would re enact, you know, things I would watch on TV and I would 1137 00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:24,240 just any 172 scale miniature I got would go to topping up the 1138 00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,360 French, the Germans, the Brits, you know. 1139 00:59:26,360 --> 00:59:30,560 And that was all good fun. And then what really kind of 1140 00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:34,000 fuelled this was what is, I suppose, a salutary lesson for 1141 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,000 us all. My mum saw an ad saying, you 1142 00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:44,440 know, loads of gaming stuff for sale, you know, come over and we 1143 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,640 can talk. And we turn up to this posh 1144 00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:50,200 suburb of Johannesburg and there's this very kind of, you 1145 00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,960 know, high faluting lady. And she looks at us because we 1146 00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:56,200 haven't got a great car and she's like, you know, great some 1147 00:59:56,200 --> 01:00:02,200 kid and his mum and and so she she takes us into this garage so 1148 01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,120 that her husband's dead and she's trying to work out what to 1149 01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:08,000 do with the stuff. She speaks very dismissively of 1150 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:09,480 all of us. I remember this very clearly, 1151 01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,960 even though I was like 11. So we all have to think about 1152 01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:15,160 what our partners really think of these garages full of 1153 01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,400 miniatures that we have, you know, Anyway, so she was very 1154 01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,520 diminishing about all of this and and she goes basically you 1155 01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,520 can't look at any of that stuff over there that's all painted, 1156 01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:24,920 that's going to sell for good money. 1157 01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,360 But over there is like this massive pile and I mean this guy 1158 01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:32,840 must have collected like 30 years of 172 scale kind of 1159 01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:37,960 buildings for more railways. And I I didn't realize that at 1160 01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,960 the time but you know in in like modern money, each of these 1161 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,960 little 172 scale buildings was like, you know, 2030 quid. 1162 01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:49,280 And and there were boxes and boxes of like ethics stuff and 1163 01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:54,280 ESHY stuff and tanks and Pegasus Bridge and all manner of things 1164 01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:57,120 and things which frankly I I wish I'd kept because I think 1165 01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,320 these things have a value now. These things have all they 1166 01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,200 didn't survive and and move to the UK. 1167 01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:07,160 But anyway and so, so I said to my mum, how much can I spend? 1168 01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,880 And she said, well look at it, take 50 Rand or whatever, you 1169 01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,640 know, which side we call it £50 in today's money, I think. 1170 01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:14,960 Great. So I pick this and I pick that 1171 01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:16,680 and then she says I thought about it. 1172 01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:20,920 You know, it's obvious that this is an amazing poll, you know, 1173 01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:24,160 and we just won't spend more on this stuff for a while. 1174 01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,760 Take 200 Rand And the lady looked at both of us and said 1175 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:29,120 you're going to spend 200 Rand stuff. 1176 01:01:29,120 --> 01:01:32,560 And we were like, Yep, and and she, I mean, we just literally 1177 01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,680 filmed the boot, the back seat, you know it was the most 1178 01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:38,400 amazing. It's the most I I basically 1179 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:40,520 bought, but another like four boxes of miniatures for the next 1180 01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,280 two years. Yeah, that's wonderful. 1181 01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:44,720 That's. I see your mother to do that for 1182 01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:45,680 you too. That's lovely. 1183 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:52,400 Oh, she listen, she was in my house today, and we've always 1184 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,640 been vaguely interested in in kind of art. 1185 01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:58,160 Not not heavily, but it's the but anyway, so I got out some 1186 01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:05,320 Cyborg miniatures terrain. He he does absolutely beautiful 1187 01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:14,920 like faux Warhammer 40K. What's it called? 1188 01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:16,080 Dark. Grim. 1189 01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:17,440 Dark kind of. Stuff. 1190 01:02:19,560 --> 01:02:23,000 And they're like kind of broken statues of, you know, Space 1191 01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,400 Marines clearly. And they're they're beautiful. 1192 01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:29,520 And so I bought a few, but they don't require, you know, great 1193 01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,800 artistic insight to paint. They've been spray painted grey. 1194 01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,480 And I said look, can you just take, you know, some of these, 1195 01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:40,000 these, these, these, these dark washers and then we'll just dry 1196 01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,200 brush these and you know, and I'll base them And she had so 1197 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,640 much fun. She was, you know, she did about 1198 01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,480 half of them and and she's she's she's a savvy lady. 1199 01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:54,320 She was like, you know, this army painter stuff, It doesn't 1200 01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:55,800 quite flow as well as the game's workshop. 1201 01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:58,120 When I'm like, no, she goes, I'm not really sure of value, it's 1202 01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:02,040 actually adding to kind of, you know, wash it with this dark 1203 01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:03,640 tone. I said, you know what, I think 1204 01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:06,400 you're right. And so we just mix the dark tone 1205 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,240 and non oil together and listen it. 1206 01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,440 It's terrain, you know? And I thought I've always had a 1207 01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,960 very relaxed attitude to the quality of terrain versus to 1208 01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:16,280 miniature. I don't know what your view is. 1209 01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,880 I think, I think, I think, yeah, I really, I was actually looking 1210 01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,560 at my mighty fortress behind me actually, I I need to spray that 1211 01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,160 up at some point and get that painted. 1212 01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:28,760 It's one of those projects that I that I'm looking forward to 1213 01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:30,960 doing. But yeah, Terrain has been 1214 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,200 something, because I just talked to Mel, the terrain Tutor in the 1215 01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:38,160 last podcast we did last week, and yeah, I find. 1216 01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,040 You nice to listen to that one. Yeah. 1217 01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,160 OK. So yeah, well, you you only 1218 01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:43,720 discovered about my podcast today. 1219 01:03:43,720 --> 01:03:45,800 I'm. So embarrassed. 1220 01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:47,440 I'm such a fan of all of your content. 1221 01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,480 It's possible arranging products and you know you need to. 1222 01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:53,680 You need to cross-platform it. You know, you need to sort of 1223 01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,720 talk about, you know, each different element, each 1224 01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:57,720 different element. Yeah, I'll have to do that now. 1225 01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,000 I I didn't realize there were people out there who didn't even 1226 01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,240 realize there was a podcast called The Chronic Command. 1227 01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:04,840 They just because it's it's it's interesting any of that that's 1228 01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:06,200 that's a different topic for a different day. 1229 01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,280 But yeah, I think terrain has become something that during the 1230 01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,600 time when we started playing games, we didn't have any 1231 01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:16,840 terrain. And terrain was a very much a 1232 01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:22,160 secondary thing for us. And we plied our trade to try to 1233 01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:27,160 find, you know, foam and what was then sort of mounting 1234 01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:29,400 feature frames and that kind of stuff. 1235 01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:33,600 We would get that to make ruins for 40K second edition. 1236 01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:35,960 Then Epic already had all the terrain in the box, so that was 1237 01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:37,120 easy. And. 1238 01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,520 And yeah, all that kind of stuff we had like and then the 4th 1239 01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,320 edition, 5th edition boxes had the, you know, the house and 1240 01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:48,560 tower in it. So we just made like hills and 1241 01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,800 but nowadays, like now coming back into the hobby the last 1242 01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:55,320 four years, yeah, getting back into making terrain was a really 1243 01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:57,960 big thing for me. And I really wanted to replicate 1244 01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,520 the the images that other people like. 1245 01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:05,920 My good mate Yipe Denning from Denmark, he's an absolute 1246 01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,600 genius, that guy. Not only like a fantastic 1247 01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:11,200 painter, but he actually replicated all those buildings 1248 01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:13,840 and to reign beautifully like out of the White Dwarf 1249 01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,480 magazines. So a bit of a shout out to him. 1250 01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,960 Tangents are are the the watchword of any podcast, so 1251 01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:21,760 don't worry, we can get back to my story in a moment. 1252 01:05:22,240 --> 01:05:28,480 But but basically my my top of mind got drawn to the idea of, 1253 01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:34,000 you know, playing with are they 5052mm managers. 1254 01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,880 There was that kind of there was that Games Workshop game that 1255 01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:41,640 came out maybe very late 90s, very early 2000s, where it was 1256 01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:45,400 based on like an A number of a small number of miniatures in 1257 01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:47,600 the grim Dark World played at a much bigger scale. 1258 01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:50,960 I've forgotten the name of it because I've got a shocking 1259 01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:55,840 memory and I thought to myself, do you know what I think this 1260 01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:59,360 game is now free to download or there's like a fan version And I 1261 01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:02,400 thought, you know, with 3D printing you no longer need to 1262 01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:08,800 pay like £50 for you know, an OOP eBay miniature in the scale 1263 01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,000 for this short lived game. Yeah. 1264 01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,320 You can just get it printed up, you know, I don't have a 1265 01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:15,760 printer. We can talk about 3D printing, 1266 01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:17,520 but you know, you can pay someone to print one of these 1267 01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:20,280 things that you can buy the STL, pay someone to print it up for 1268 01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,800 like 4 lbs for this beautiful, huge miniature. 1269 01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:25,600 And there's this one sculptor who I think the sculptor Games 1270 01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:32,520 Workshop, but he's got a Patreon and he's clearly doing, you 1271 01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,840 know, miniatures, which you are from the world of. 1272 01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:45,080 What's it called the the kind of the, the, the Spire world with 1273 01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:50,640 all the gangs, the under Necromunda and and if you 1274 01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:53,520 remember rightly there were these kind of like brat gangs, 1275 01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:57,680 these kind of like rich kids who wear this kind of almost Eldar, 1276 01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:03,600 like Harlequin, like kind of, you know, sashed kind of hit. 1277 01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:05,760 And he's done some amazing measures for that. 1278 01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:07,600 And I thought, well, you know you could just get those printed 1279 01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:09,640 out at the relevant scale but not that much. 1280 01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:13,280 And you could play. But I thought crikey terrain, 1281 01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:16,200 you know, am I really going to design, you know, even if it's a 1282 01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:18,760 four by four, am I going to design a four by four of the 1283 01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:23,320 under Hive at, you know, 52mm scale? 1284 01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:27,480 And the answer is no. So you know, terrain is not the 1285 01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,520 mine killer as such, but it is. It is the concept killer. 1286 01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:35,360 Yes, very much so. Yeah, I think, you know terrain 1287 01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:38,120 plays a massive part in games now, especially now where you've 1288 01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:39,480 got like a lot of skirmish games. 1289 01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,800 So the terrain is really important for that kind of 1290 01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:43,400 thing. For mass battle type stuff like 1291 01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:47,360 Warhammer, it becomes, yeah, essential, but you don't need 1292 01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:50,920 that much of it, you know to. But it it obviously it, it gives 1293 01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:55,200 you some sort of strategic elements to the to the table and 1294 01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:58,360 of course some aesthetically pleasing looking things like 1295 01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:00,680 contours like hills and that kind of thing. 1296 01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:01,840 So it's not just necessarily all. 1297 01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,440 Flat. But things like Ward Heim and 1298 01:08:04,440 --> 01:08:08,200 Necromunda and a lot of other games now, yeah, involves, you 1299 01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,640 know, pretty terrain, heavy boards, so. 1300 01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,240 But I think companies are doing pretty good with like card 1301 01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:16,279 stocks, buildings and that kind of thing. 1302 01:08:16,279 --> 01:08:20,439 Nowadays I even play with like. Card stock, buildings. 1303 01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:23,000 That is too nice. I think some things are best 1304 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,160 left in the 90s. I think Card stocks. 1305 01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:28,160 Well, some some of some of the things that. 1306 01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:32,160 Like we played like. Just using 2D terrain like a 2D 1307 01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:37,399 forest, a 2D tree or whatever, you know. 1308 01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:39,279 And that that works really well too. 1309 01:08:39,279 --> 01:08:42,840 And sometimes it looks kind of like you're you're looking like 1310 01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:46,160 in a top down RTS video game where you're moving the 1311 01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:49,600 miniatures in this sort of scenic area on the board that's 1312 01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:55,000 clearly marked out using this 2D piece of either mouse mat or 1313 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:57,520 cardboard. But it's doing the same thing. 1314 01:08:57,520 --> 01:08:59,680 It's it's, it's kind of aesthetically pleasing and that 1315 01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,319 it's all nicely coloured and, you know, digitally created for 1316 01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:07,000 you. This man's opinion is that if 1317 01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,120 you've reached that level of abstraction, you need to go and 1318 01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:12,520 be a role player. You know, I've never had any 1319 01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,560 type of role-playing because you know, I know so many people who 1320 01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,960 love it and you know, you can be so creative and you can immerse 1321 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,279 yourself in the world. And I'm like, look, I want to 1322 01:09:21,279 --> 01:09:23,520 roll a dice and and have one miniature that looks like 1323 01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:25,520 something, shoots another miniature that looks like 1324 01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,439 something in a building that looks like something. 1325 01:09:27,960 --> 01:09:30,920 So you know, we all, we all have our lines. 1326 01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:33,520 Yeah, I think there's some, there's some good innovations 1327 01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:34,560 out there. That's what I'm trying to say. 1328 01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:37,279 There's some good innovations to get what you want to do on your 1329 01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:40,000 table top looking pretty, you know what I mean? 1330 01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:44,240 Without, without an extensive amount of knowledge or or things 1331 01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:46,000 like that. But you know Mel the tarantula, 1332 01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,000 as we alluded to before, you know he's doing it the old 1333 01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:50,640 school way. And I really respect that 1334 01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:53,120 because there's a there's a lot to learn. 1335 01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:56,040 It's it's a hobby like you say in itself like painting or just 1336 01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:59,640 gaming or you know medalist creating or whatever it might 1337 01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:02,600 be. There's something really nice 1338 01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:06,640 and satisfying about making your own terrain, as I've discovered. 1339 01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,800 Again, you know, making. That happen very much is and I 1340 01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:15,720 think particularly, you know with Mordheim and old Hammer if 1341 01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:19,680 you made, you know, one of those kind of concoctions out of balsa 1342 01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:22,640 wood, you know, and a little bit of kind of, you know, I thought 1343 01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:26,400 what's called polyfiller, you know, and and cut out kind of, 1344 01:10:26,480 --> 01:10:29,920 you know, cereal packet kind of cardboard slick tile roofs and 1345 01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:33,240 painted it, you know, with all those kind of weird kind of, you 1346 01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:36,120 know, little bridges and houses connected over other houses. 1347 01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,960 You know, there was something, there is something absolutely 1348 01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,320 fantastic about that. And in my friendly local gaming 1349 01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:45,920 store, one guy actually combined doing a bit of that himself with 1350 01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:50,200 some of the MDF stuff you can get, you know, for that kind of 1351 01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:54,000 type of housing. And it's absolutely fantastic. 1352 01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,000 But then unfortunately he kind of, he's more of gross hopper 1353 01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:58,600 than me. He's totally abandoned this more 1354 01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,360 time campaign which I also painted some night goblins for 1355 01:11:01,480 --> 01:11:04,040 old Hammer night goblins. But you know, it reminded me I 1356 01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:08,080 will bug him because the the visual spectacular of what he's 1357 01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:11,280 done is in and of himself. You know, a hobby delight. 1358 01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:14,200 Yeah, absolutely, man. Yeah, Nice. 1359 01:11:14,200 --> 01:11:16,040 It's wonderful. Right. 1360 01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:19,520 So get gone. OK, So what we might do might 1361 01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:23,600 have to go to another ad break just quickly and when we come 1362 01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,840 back we might give you a bit of a quiz, mate from Jervis Johnson 1363 01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:29,800 himself. So, so, so stay with us. 1364 01:11:29,800 --> 01:11:33,440 We'll be back in just a moment. Have you always dreamed of 1365 01:11:33,440 --> 01:11:36,120 having your old gangster armies professionally painted in the 1366 01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:39,280 style of the white dwarf batter reports of the 1990s? 1367 01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:43,600 Well, let me introduce you to Eddie LED Painting Studios Japan 1368 01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:47,040 as a professional painter with over 30 years experience in 1369 01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,000 having a short stint working at the Gangster Shop Nodding Studio 1370 01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,480 as a miniature painter in the mid 1990s. 1371 01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:55,320 I now work as a full time professional miniature painter 1372 01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,360 having the joy to turn your old love metal and plastic 1373 01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:01,640 miniatures into life with saturated colour and of course 1374 01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:06,160 with Goblin green bases. For inquiries, please contact me 1375 01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:18,840 via e-mail at evyled@gmail.com. That's EAVYLE ad@gmail.com and 1376 01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:21,240 please check out the links in the show description for my 1377 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,160 Facebook gallery page. And I hope to hear from you soon 1378 01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:27,640 to start your dream project, but. 1379 01:12:28,440 --> 01:12:31,600 So Stompy and you wanted to finish your story, but so 1380 01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:33,920 please, please continue before our quiz. 1381 01:12:35,880 --> 01:12:40,960 So that's the end of me kind of being sort of you know, 13 that 1382 01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:44,720 period's over. And then I go to the UK and you 1383 01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:49,800 know I, I, I turn up at you know I see that there's Games 1384 01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:51,760 Workshop. You know I walk past the stores, 1385 01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:57,320 you know I go to I think it's called Reveille in Bristol. 1386 01:12:57,840 --> 01:13:00,680 You know it was one of these war gaming shows and I see I think 1387 01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,480 they call front rank miniatures and you know we've all seen last 1388 01:13:03,480 --> 01:13:06,440 the Mohicans and instead of having these like tiny 1389 01:13:06,440 --> 01:13:11,960 impossible to paint little 172 miniatures you've got 28 metal 1390 01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:13,960 miniatures with like kind of character. 1391 01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:16,560 And you know we discussed that length before that kind of 1392 01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,320 amazing you know approach to to to miniatures. 1393 01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:22,200 You know, because actually strangely, even though it's like 1394 01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:27,040 1980s one, 72SG plastics were massively detailed, which you 1395 01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:30,480 know, a 10 and 11 year old could not paint with enamel paints. 1396 01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:33,720 You know, I caused mass damage to my bedroom with enamel 1397 01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:37,440 paints. And when I say entertainment, 1398 01:13:37,440 --> 01:13:41,680 you know, I was reading about how some studies come out saying 1399 01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,120 that, you know, a lot of people with Alzheimer's, it's arisen 1400 01:13:44,120 --> 01:13:46,960 because they pick their nose because, you know, it releases 1401 01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,000 weird toxins and it causes, you know, over a long period causes 1402 01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:51,800 brain damage. And I thought to myself, Oh 1403 01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:53,600 dear. Because if that's the case, just 1404 01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:57,000 from picking your nose, you know, having thinners all over 1405 01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,760 the place at the age of 10 and 11 with enamel paints must have 1406 01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:03,800 is, you know, in 10 years, I'm sure I just won't be talking. 1407 01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:08,520 But anyway, now I saw that there was this whole world out there 1408 01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:11,360 and that there were games with dice, and it was obviously much 1409 01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:14,560 better than just chucking, you know, peg bombs at these 1410 01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:17,240 miniatures. And but The thing is, these 1411 01:14:17,240 --> 01:14:19,880 things were very expensive, very, very, very expensive. 1412 01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:23,040 And so I couldn't really buy too much of it. 1413 01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:29,080 I'd gone to this British school where, you know, sport was a big 1414 01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,240 thing. And so they would take like 1415 01:14:33,480 --> 01:14:36,920 there would be like 17. So even the biggest Malco, the 1416 01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,200 person with like, no coordination like myself, could 1417 01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:42,440 still be on a team and stuck on a bus all of Saturday afternoon 1418 01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:44,880 halfway across the country to play rugby or cricket or 1419 01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,000 whatever. And so I would find increasingly 1420 01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:50,360 kind of cunning ways of not being taken into even the worst 1421 01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:52,000 team. You know I'm I'm from South 1422 01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:55,040 Africa you know even the biggest Malco there is just forced to 1423 01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:56,960 play rugby. So I knew how to play rugby and 1424 01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:59,600 I remember in this one try I thought to myself what is the 1425 01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:02,440 dumbest thing I can do just to not get you know taken into this 1426 01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:05,280 you know, team And and I just grabbed the ball. 1427 01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,440 He came to me and instead of like you know clutching it with 1428 01:15:08,440 --> 01:15:10,520 two hands and throwing it and spitting it, like we kind of 1429 01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:12,680 trained it in South Africa. I just took this thing and just 1430 01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:15,520 went just threw it over my head and just threw it like, you know 1431 01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:18,000 forward. And I remember this this British 1432 01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,280 teacher's put his hat. He literally put his hand over 1433 01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:23,200 his face and was like right, OK well you're not going to you 1434 01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,240 know, name of school you know, next week and I was like 1435 01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:27,240 perfect. So. 1436 01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:30,440 So that meant I had like every Saturday afternoon, like the 1437 01:15:30,440 --> 01:15:34,920 next five years free and I couldn't afford to get into, you 1438 01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:39,800 know, all the old Hammer games. And so that's why I have no 2nd, 1439 01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:45,600 3rd, 4th, 5th edition Warhammer. But all those niche games like 1440 01:15:45,600 --> 01:15:48,200 particularly Blood Bowl, you know, well, that's something any 1441 01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:51,120 kid could afford. And so I used to play Blood 1442 01:15:51,120 --> 01:15:55,040 Bowl, you know, in, in, in, in the afternoons and and other 1443 01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:56,480 guys would be very happy to play it. 1444 01:15:56,800 --> 01:15:59,120 And they were just the kind of miniature that we've we've 1445 01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,120 discussed. And then I went to university 1446 01:16:02,120 --> 01:16:04,880 and again, you know, I still never had the money for it. 1447 01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:08,760 So I paid a bit of Necromunda. I remember there was one guy 1448 01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:12,760 from America, he was like literally 7 foot tall and so and 1449 01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,480 he was into Warhammer. It must have some kind of growth 1450 01:16:15,480 --> 01:16:16,720 issue. But he was obviously, he was, he 1451 01:16:16,720 --> 01:16:19,840 was a genius and he loved, he loved this stuff and he was very 1452 01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:21,120 characterful. He actually wanted to play 1453 01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:23,240 role-playing. But as I've described my mind 1454 01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:25,320 isn't in a place, you know, for that kind of level of 1455 01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:29,760 abstraction and and so so we we played, you know I had Gokumoka 1456 01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:31,840 figures. Oh yeah, Gokumoka loved that. 1457 01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:36,080 So I played that at university and then you know, I I got a 1458 01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:42,320 proper job and I moved to London and I I would go to the Games 1459 01:16:42,320 --> 01:16:45,800 Workshop store and this was around 7th edition and the 1460 01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,440 miniatures were fantastic and I had Orcs and Goblins, I had 1461 01:16:49,440 --> 01:16:54,200 Empire, I dip my my foot into chaos. 1462 01:16:54,440 --> 01:16:57,080 But basically I never played a game I enjoyed. 1463 01:16:57,200 --> 01:16:59,200 I would rock up with this heavy miniatures case. 1464 01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,040 You know, I never had a car. I would lay out all the figures 1465 01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:05,440 and once in a blue moon, you know, I had a slightly weird Ork 1466 01:17:05,440 --> 01:17:10,080 and Goblin army. You know, my my favorite piece 1467 01:17:10,080 --> 01:17:12,880 because everyone dismissed Orcs and goblins as like a real 1468 01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:18,280 force. And I had one Savage Ork boss on 1469 01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:22,640 a ball chariot and no one realized that he was frenzied 1470 01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:24,680 and the whole board chart was frenzied. 1471 01:17:24,680 --> 01:17:26,720 So this thing hits you. It was like 30 dice or 1472 01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:29,600 something. But that was my only trick. 1473 01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:33,400 I was a 1 trick pony And every other kid who turned up, you 1474 01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:35,160 know, because I was a bit older then, You know, I was young, 1475 01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:39,680 professional, and most people there were like, you know, kids 1476 01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:41,760 or teenagers because I didn't really know where, you know, 1477 01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,240 where can you meet people's playlists? 1478 01:17:43,440 --> 01:17:45,320 And they would rock up with, like dark elves, which would 1479 01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:48,560 just shoot me to death, or demons who didn't seem to do 1480 01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:53,400 anything in any of the phases. You know, they had no morale. 1481 01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:55,800 You know, all they did was just kill you. 1482 01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:57,400 So there was no client back. Well, I'm dead. 1483 01:17:57,400 --> 01:17:59,160 But you killed them. And they all just came back. 1484 01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:01,840 And so I never enjoyed a single game. 1485 01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:04,720 You know, just to tie it into our discussion about the growth 1486 01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:08,200 of, you know, creative individuals who through Osprey 1487 01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:11,040 are coming up with these, you know, rules of Gnostic systems 1488 01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:14,040 which are actually good or romantic, which do fantastic 1489 01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:16,320 systems like Kings of War and Dead Zone. 1490 01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:19,080 You know, every time I play Dead Zone, it's a great game. 1491 01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:21,120 If I lose, it's still a great game. 1492 01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:23,400 I never enjoyed a game of Warhammer 7. 1493 01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:29,400 Right, interesting. And then obviously I'm not you. 1494 01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:31,520 You know my painting isn't fantastic. 1495 01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:34,120 It's not bad. It's not bad. 1496 01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:37,720 It's not bad. It's not bad and and the guys 1497 01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:41,680 come around to my house to play Mallifo actually his name was 1498 01:18:41,680 --> 01:18:48,600 Tom Greenway and and and he would say you know Stumpy you 1499 01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:52,080 know for for someone with no artistic background. 1500 01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:53,960 You know you're the best painter I've seen. 1501 01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:56,800 You know, and I said that's that's a big compliment because 1502 01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:59,360 you do have an artistic background and you know it's a 1503 01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:01,600 backhanded compliment but I took it in the spirit it was 1504 01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:03,240 intended. And where is Tom now? 1505 01:19:03,240 --> 01:19:06,520 Tom has obviously started Moonstone Miniatures you know, 1506 01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:10,880 which is a fantastic game and I need to add to my my collections 1507 01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:15,360 that's on my To Do List. He left London and went out West 1508 01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:19,600 here in the UK and you know he has a marketing background and 1509 01:19:20,040 --> 01:19:23,280 he has a he has he has a background in medieval martial 1510 01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:25,600 arts as well. So he would, he paid a lot of 1511 01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:28,560 money for this amazing suit of armor and then would kind of go 1512 01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:31,080 and bash people up at the weekends. 1513 01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:34,040 And he loved Manafort, which is obviously a card based game. 1514 01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:37,280 And so I think he kind of mashed the best of all of that, you 1515 01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:38,840 know, all the moves he understood because he 1516 01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:40,960 understands combat. You know, I roll the dice and 1517 01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:42,200 imagine someone thumping someone. 1518 01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:45,880 He understands that, you know, Knights didn't go clump, clump, 1519 01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:47,440 clump. They were just as skilled as 1520 01:19:47,440 --> 01:19:50,040 samurai, you know, That's what they were trained to do. 1521 01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:54,360 That's how they did it. Anyway. 1522 01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:58,320 So, so I started thinking, look, this is not a great game. 1523 01:19:58,320 --> 01:19:59,640 There must be other games out there. 1524 01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:04,000 And so I dabbled in Malifo, which is a fact, which was a 1525 01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:08,440 fantastic game with cards. And there was much less what's 1526 01:20:08,440 --> 01:20:11,480 the word, you know, it was more with resource management than 1527 01:20:11,480 --> 01:20:14,800 than managing risk. Which which I enjoyed. 1528 01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:17,760 The downside of Mallifo was it took like you know 7 hours or 1529 01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:20,360 five hours to play a game. You know, I'm I don't regard 1530 01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:21,840 myself as particularly thick. I'm not. 1531 01:20:22,320 --> 01:20:26,920 I mean I haven't got the kind of mind that can kind of churn you 1532 01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:29,680 know numerical risk in my mind as I go. 1533 01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:33,400 You know I just have a go depending on how I see it So, so 1534 01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:38,720 so I played a bit of that. I played a lot of Blood Bowl in 1535 01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:43,040 a sense, specialized just in Blood Bowl ECBBL. 1536 01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:45,880 He did a massive shout out. Lovely people, but mostly I got 1537 01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:47,600 my butts handed to me every single week. 1538 01:20:48,240 --> 01:20:53,360 They would have leagues and these were talented people who 1539 01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,520 just played this game. And so I would say, OK fine, 1540 01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:58,040 look, I'm not going to be in your leagues because you know, 1541 01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:00,040 because my job, I can't guarantee rocking up anyway. 1542 01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:03,960 So I'll just turn up and play pickup games and got my butts 1543 01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:05,000 handed to me in the pickup games. 1544 01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:06,600 But anyway, but that was good fun. 1545 01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:10,040 The problem was, was that at the end of each of these games, you 1546 01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:12,360 know, I had to keep moving further and further out of 1547 01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,000 London because of, you know, housing prices and you know as 1548 01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:18,600 you grow up and have a family. And I would find myself stuck in 1549 01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:21,600 central London at like 11:00, 11/30 at night with like a two 1550 01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:23,320 hour journey. And I was like, OK, this is not 1551 01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:25,680 viable. And I discovered that there was 1552 01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:32,400 a, you know, a friendly local gaming store very close here and 1553 01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:34,840 they and they were delighted to get me, you know, you want a 1554 01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:37,920 grasshopper guy who just got the collection gene in your pretty 1555 01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:40,280 local gaming store. So, you know, and they are 1556 01:21:40,440 --> 01:21:44,440 absolutely lovely. They, they have a number of kind 1557 01:21:44,440 --> 01:21:47,480 of work streams. They've got, you know, people 1558 01:21:47,480 --> 01:21:50,800 who are the local community, They've got an online store and 1559 01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:53,880 they go around the country and to every kind of war game show 1560 01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:56,440 and just, you know, represent other people. 1561 01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:03,920 And that's the pit Gaming Shop and and that kind of totally 1562 01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:06,680 opened up the world that you and I have just been discussing 1563 01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:10,000 because I've now got, you know, loads of War Machine figures, 1564 01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:14,600 loads of Malifo figures, that's old Hammer figures, Games 1565 01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:18,000 Workshop figures. And there are now people there 1566 01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:20,360 who will basically play pretty much anything with me. 1567 01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:26,080 And that's where I am today. And so a lot of what I kind of 1568 01:22:26,080 --> 01:22:29,440 put out of the garage, what I painted on my channel, is 1569 01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:33,360 reflective of what I'm about to play with these people in the 1570 01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:37,000 store. And that is my tale. 1571 01:22:37,480 --> 01:22:41,840 Wow, that's wonderful mate. What a colourful and what a 1572 01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:43,840 colourful story that is too. You've been. 1573 01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:47,960 You've been everywhere from South Africa to London and 1574 01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:51,960 collecting various different things from railway houses to to 1575 01:22:51,960 --> 01:22:54,640 Auckland goblins, mate. So it's quite an extensive 1576 01:22:54,640 --> 01:22:59,120 history, yeah. Well, The thing is, you know, I 1577 01:22:59,120 --> 01:23:01,560 I do enjoy my job, I love my family. 1578 01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:04,400 But The thing is you've got, I think you do have to do 1579 01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:08,080 something for yourself. And I was reading a book called 1580 01:23:08,080 --> 01:23:10,920 which is going to be on my channel at some point in the 1581 01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:15,080 next couple of weeks. It's a book from 1986 called The 1582 01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:19,360 Miniature Heroes for War Games or something, and it's a games 1583 01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:21,120 Virtual book. Yeah, I love that book. 1584 01:23:21,360 --> 01:23:24,000 I gave it away before I went. I went, I left to Japan. 1585 01:23:24,440 --> 01:23:30,200 It's my biggest regret. I like this book, but I'm going 1586 01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:32,600 to read it put it on the channel and I'm sure we can work 1587 01:23:32,600 --> 01:23:35,880 something out. You know, welcome to have it. 1588 01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:37,840 It's just I'm not sure it's in about the 20 foot postage to 1589 01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:43,880 Japan. But anyway so and they they, I 1590 01:23:43,960 --> 01:23:45,760 forgot why, why I I mentioned it. 1591 01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:49,400 Aye that's it. They said, you know, it starts 1592 01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:53,320 off in the introduction saying you know, in because I think I 1593 01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:55,240 don't know who wrote it. But there are a lot of deep 1594 01:23:55,240 --> 01:23:58,560 thinkers in this hobby. And the guy who wrote this book 1595 01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:02,880 says, you know, in society we've all become highly specialized. 1596 01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,600 You know, in a kind of post industrial world, in our jobs, 1597 01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:08,520 what we do is so specific, which means that what we're doing 1598 01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:12,080 every day is so specific. And he goes, and if you've got, 1599 01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:15,600 if you want a bit of creativity in your life, you know, this 1600 01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:22,480 hobby lets you collect, trade and assemble stuff, kid bash 1601 01:24:22,480 --> 01:24:25,120 stuff in creative ways, paint stuff in creative ways. 1602 01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:27,280 And so, you know, we discussed what I do. 1603 01:24:27,280 --> 01:24:29,400 I'm not going to disclose what it is, but, you know, it's not 1604 01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:33,280 artistic in the slightest. And this has allowed me to do 1605 01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:38,520 something which you know, can can tick a certain box and add a 1606 01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:42,560 small spark to your life that actually enriches you know, your 1607 01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:46,760 work and and and and and your life with your, with your family 1608 01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:48,800 because you you can get the kids involved in all this. 1609 01:24:48,800 --> 01:24:51,920 I've done that and actually if I think about my work, 1610 01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:57,680 fundamentally what I'm doing is I'm still making FX kits. 1611 01:24:57,680 --> 01:25:02,160 People come to me to, you know, create conceptually something 1612 01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:05,240 which you know is basically just a complicated kit that I've kit 1613 01:25:05,240 --> 01:25:06,760 bashed. Right. 1614 01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:09,400 OK. That's an interesting way of 1615 01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:10,680 looking at it. Yeah, that's good mate. 1616 01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:15,480 Quiz. I've already shown my flaws, 1617 01:25:15,480 --> 01:25:17,800 which is my appalling memory. So you're wanting to ask me any 1618 01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,600 question you want, but I'm always going to have a pop quiz. 1619 01:25:20,720 --> 01:25:22,440 I'm I'm going to have. I'm going to give you a choice. 1620 01:25:22,440 --> 01:25:25,560 You've got Gav Thorpe. You've got Andy Jones, Jake, 1621 01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:30,600 Let's see, Jake, what's Jake's last name again? 1622 01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:32,360 Jake Thornton. That's it. 1623 01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:34,720 And Jervis Johnson. So you've got those to choose 1624 01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:35,880 from. And which one would you like? 1625 01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:37,480 Which quiz? From which person? 1626 01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:43,560 Any favourites? So say again, Gav Thorpe and Gav 1627 01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:47,680 Thorpe. Andy Andy, Andy Jones, Jake 1628 01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:50,840 Thornton and Jervis Johnson. Oh, Jervis Johnson. 1629 01:25:51,240 --> 01:25:54,680 OK, so this is Jervis's favorite pub quiz questions. 1630 01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:57,760 So Jervis has put together the pub quizzes held at the 1631 01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:01,120 tournaments we ran last year. Here are five of my favorite 1632 01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:03,600 questions. Watch out, because they're not 1633 01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:08,200 all about Games Workshop stuff. So #1 When did Games Workshop 1634 01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:11,760 become a public limited company? This is the point at which they 1635 01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:17,760 turn to the side of people. No, that's very, you would say 1636 01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:19,440 it opens up to wider public scrutiny. 1637 01:26:20,480 --> 01:26:24,960 I have no idea, but my guess would be it it could be quite 1638 01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:30,800 late 2005. It's actually October 1994. 1639 01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:33,240 You're kidding. No. 1640 01:26:34,440 --> 01:26:36,520 Yeah, because when I when I worked for Games Workshop, I 1641 01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:38,840 went when I worked for Games Workshop, and that was I think 1642 01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:42,960 94 when I first joined. Yeah, Tom Kirby had already 1643 01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:45,000 started running that company. Yeah. 1644 01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:48,560 And Brian Ansel already left. I think he left about 92. 1645 01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:50,840 I think Brian Ansel left in 9293. 1646 01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:56,520 So obviously then then the the Tom Kirby era started in 1994, 1647 01:26:57,360 --> 01:26:57,760 so. There's. 1648 01:26:57,840 --> 01:26:59,760 Good for them. Say what you want about them and 1649 01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:03,200 people do naughtily kick them, but they are the pumping heart 1650 01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:05,000 of the hobby. If they went, I'm not sure that 1651 01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,320 all these, you know, one man bands would sustain it. 1652 01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:09,720 That's right, yeah. Because you know all the guests 1653 01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:14,360 I have on the show, they all have their sort of lineage in in 1654 01:27:14,360 --> 01:27:18,120 gaming through either being a red shirt for Games Workshop or 1655 01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:21,560 having discovered Games Workshop through the local gaming store 1656 01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:24,720 or whatever it might be. So everyone's come through the 1657 01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:29,440 the GW induction mate, basically. 1658 01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:35,560 OK, so two who absolutely will not stop, who absolutely will 1659 01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:39,520 not stop, might be your savage or big boss. 1660 01:27:41,440 --> 01:27:43,160 Listen, I'm not. I'm not big on the law, to be 1661 01:27:43,160 --> 01:27:44,360 honest. I mean it. 1662 01:27:44,440 --> 01:27:47,640 It sounds like Gottreck. It says. 1663 01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:49,680 They just keep going till they get killed. 1664 01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:51,600 I don't know it. Says the Terminator. 1665 01:27:51,680 --> 01:27:53,480 The Terminator. The Terminator. 1666 01:27:53,480 --> 01:27:55,680 I don't really get that one. But who? 1667 01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:56,960 Absolutely. Who will not stop. 1668 01:27:57,040 --> 01:27:59,360 And maybe that's like a reference to the Terminator 1669 01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:01,240 movie. I think that's what it. 1670 01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:03,040 I think it's that's that's what it means. 1671 01:28:03,040 --> 01:28:04,480 It's the Terminator movie. Arnold. 1672 01:28:04,480 --> 01:28:07,080 Arnold Schwarzenegger. I was nothing to do with Games 1673 01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:08,520 Workshop. No, because he says he. 1674 01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:11,680 So be careful because they're not all about Games Workshop 1675 01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:13,080 stuff. I think that's what that was 1676 01:28:13,080 --> 01:28:15,640 referring to. I I I would question the 1677 01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:19,960 localness and validity of the question because you know at no 1678 01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,560 point does the Terminator say you know he will not stop. 1679 01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:24,520 I will not stop, I'm sure. But anyway, move on to the next. 1680 01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:27,080 One OK now #3. The question three is is someone 1681 01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:30,560 actually we we we talked about recently with Tom and some guys 1682 01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:33,080 in Discord as my one of my favorite painters. 1683 01:28:33,440 --> 01:28:37,480 So who is the only person to win the Golden Demon Slayer Sword 1684 01:28:37,480 --> 01:28:41,920 more than once now now this is in 1996 when this is published. 1685 01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:45,560 So at this stage at 1996, who was the only person to win 1686 01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:47,280 Golden Demon Slayer more than once? 1687 01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:50,280 I have no idea, but I've got all the books I could go and 1688 01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:52,840 research it, so just share it. Go on. 1689 01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:55,520 This is a name from the past. Paul Robbins. 1690 01:28:56,000 --> 01:28:57,320 Now, Paul. We've never got that. 1691 01:28:57,480 --> 01:29:00,560 OK, well he he was famous. We we we're just talking about 1692 01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:03,200 it before actually, and I was, I'm actually repainting my 1693 01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:06,360 Slayers and my Dwarf Slayers as I absolutely love those 1694 01:29:06,360 --> 01:29:07,960 miniatures. And Paul did a beautiful 1695 01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:15,360 diorama, I think in 1992, Golden Demon 92, he made this 1696 01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:18,040 beautiful. Not a diorama, it's basically 1697 01:29:18,040 --> 01:29:22,560 just regiments of Dwarf marauder dwarves on this scenic display 1698 01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:24,720 base and it was absolutely gorgeous. 1699 01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:30,000 It's my favorite golden golden demon Slayer and winning entry 1700 01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:34,640 of all time. So 4 In which hand does Jane 1701 01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:38,640 Tsar hold the silent death? I don't even know who Jane Tsar 1702 01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:40,520 is. Jane Tsar is one of the Phoenix 1703 01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:43,360 Lords of the Banshees, the Howling Banshee Phoenix Lord for 1704 01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:48,040 the Elder in one of 40K. OK, I don't know her right hand. 1705 01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:50,880 It's a 5050 question, isn't? It it's actually the left hand. 1706 01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:53,720 In the right hand she carries a blade of destruction, which 1707 01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:58,480 would have been an extra point. But don't worry mate, you might 1708 01:29:58,480 --> 01:30:01,600 get the next one, The last one. Number five, What are the last 1709 01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:07,400 words of the talking bomb in the film Dark Star? 1710 01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:11,360 I've absolutely no idea. So what are the last words of 1711 01:30:11,360 --> 01:30:13,920 the talking bomb in the film Dark? 1712 01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:18,240 * All right, so look, everyone in our hobby is a sci-fi and 1713 01:30:18,240 --> 01:30:21,720 fantasy geek who has seen many films in the genre, but I've 1714 01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:23,280 never even heard of The Dark Star. 1715 01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:25,080 Me either. I've never heard of Dark Star 1716 01:30:25,080 --> 01:30:29,480 either, so let there be. Light is what he's the last 1717 01:30:29,480 --> 01:30:34,120 words, the talking bomb, Said I. Mean. 1718 01:30:34,120 --> 01:30:37,600 That's very funny because of that, you know, Genesis. 1719 01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:40,120 Genesis, you know, God says, you know. 1720 01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:42,560 Let. There be light in the creation 1721 01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:46,400 of the world, and this thing is making a gag in very dark humor 1722 01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:48,440 because it's about it. Like eviscerate everyone in the 1723 01:30:48,440 --> 01:30:51,400 room with the story of Genesis and creations. 1724 01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:54,760 That's cute. Now of course, if the one thing 1725 01:30:54,760 --> 01:30:58,920 I love about the the new sort of live streams that I'm doing on 1726 01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:02,080 YouTube is basically the same thing, but we have the 1727 01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:06,720 interactions of the audience, podcasting can be a very kind of 1728 01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:09,800 unknown place because you don't have any feedback. 1729 01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:13,240 There's no sort of response, automatic response that we could 1730 01:31:13,240 --> 01:31:16,920 have had a live audience feeding us information about this movie 1731 01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:20,800 or giving you hints or answers to some of those questions to 1732 01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:22,880 help you out. You could have had the like they 1733 01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:25,800 say in sports, the 11th Man helping you out there mate, 1734 01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:27,760 during those questions, but alas. 1735 01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:31,800 Maybe another time. The only thing is, is that, you 1736 01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:34,720 know, YouTube is obviously a very visual medium. 1737 01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:40,080 And because, you know, I don't really want the world to know 1738 01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:44,720 that I'm deeply passionate about Kev Adams dwarves in terms of my 1739 01:31:44,720 --> 01:31:49,200 just credibility generally, I I it's not something we we we can 1740 01:31:49,200 --> 01:31:51,480 do. I mean I'm reminded of when, you 1741 01:31:51,480 --> 01:31:54,560 know, I went to this, this Blood Bowl club and this guy from 1742 01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:58,040 work, you know, happened to bump into me and he said, you know, 1743 01:31:58,040 --> 01:31:59,840 hey, you know, I live around the corner. 1744 01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:01,440 What are you doing here? And I said, and I lied. 1745 01:32:01,440 --> 01:32:03,400 I said I'm just going to go have some drinks for some mates. 1746 01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:05,480 And he kind of paused looking at me, you know, waiting to be 1747 01:32:05,480 --> 01:32:07,520 invited. And I said and I kind of just, I 1748 01:32:07,520 --> 01:32:10,120 half broke down, I'm joking. You know, I said, look, I said 1749 01:32:10,120 --> 01:32:11,760 you can't tell anyone. I'm going to tell you because, 1750 01:32:11,760 --> 01:32:13,600 you know, I thought I need to be offended that I haven't invited 1751 01:32:13,600 --> 01:32:16,720 you out for drinks. I'm going to go into the, you 1752 01:32:16,720 --> 01:32:20,560 know, the first floor of a pub and I'm going to play a board 1753 01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:22,680 game. But you know, which is based on 1754 01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:25,360 American football and fantasy figures and dice. 1755 01:32:25,760 --> 01:32:27,720 And we're going to do that for a few hours and, you know, have a 1756 01:32:27,720 --> 01:32:30,360 drink and a Curry and then we're all going to go our separate 1757 01:32:30,360 --> 01:32:32,240 ways. And you can't tell me when I 1758 01:32:32,240 --> 01:32:35,080 work, I do this. And he looked at me and he 1759 01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:36,400 laughed. He was a very good-natured 1760 01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:38,800 Canadian and he was just like, don't worry, he goes, your 1761 01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:41,000 secret is safe with me. I'm glad that you're doing 1762 01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,320 something which isn't just working till midnight, which is 1763 01:32:43,520 --> 01:32:46,720 the joys of job. So you know one day when I 1764 01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:48,520 retire. Yes, absolutely. 1765 01:32:48,520 --> 01:32:52,160 Now look, so some people look, I really appreciate all this time, 1766 01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:54,400 it's probably one of the longest podcasts I've ever had. 1767 01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:57,720 So thank you so much for giving us so many great insights and 1768 01:32:57,720 --> 01:32:59,920 telling all these wonderful stories about, you know, the 1769 01:32:59,920 --> 01:33:02,520 history of where you you've come from and how you got into the 1770 01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:05,600 hobby and how the channel has evolved into something. 1771 01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:07,440 Like you say it's something a distraction. 1772 01:33:07,440 --> 01:33:13,080 It's a it's an escape from the ordinary or the stress of the of 1773 01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:16,720 the life and the work you lead. And it's a nice little thing 1774 01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:20,560 that you can do for yourself and share it with people like myself 1775 01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:22,920 that enjoy the contact that you make. 1776 01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:26,360 So I'm really looking forward to the Heroes in War gaming book 1777 01:33:26,360 --> 01:33:27,800 review that you're going to do soon. 1778 01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:30,080 I I love that book. So that's really true. 1779 01:33:30,080 --> 01:33:32,800 Old Hammer in all its glory. Thank you for having me on. 1780 01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:37,800 You are a gift to the community, you know, because you know all 1781 01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:40,160 about a workshop. You're a fantastic painter. 1782 01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:43,120 Your stuff is educational. It shows us behind the scenes, 1783 01:33:43,280 --> 01:33:45,680 in front of the scenes and inspires us. 1784 01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:48,080 And you're bringing people together, you know, and that's 1785 01:33:48,080 --> 01:33:50,520 what the hobby is really about. So keep at it. 1786 01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:52,560 Sophie, thank you so much, mate. That's very nice. 1787 01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:54,080 That's really, it's lovely for you to say. 1788 01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:58,560 And I I hope that, yeah, I can bring well, more awareness to 1789 01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:01,440 people like yourself, your channels and the and the the, 1790 01:34:01,440 --> 01:34:04,360 the people that I like watching and listening to. 1791 01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:07,200 Like the bomb, you can, you know, create light. 1792 01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:10,560 That's right. So and then get in getting to 1793 01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:12,640 meet you and saying, you know, actually talking to you, which 1794 01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:15,160 is the best part. So I really appreciate it mate. 1795 01:34:15,160 --> 01:34:17,480 So don't, don't keep stop, don't stop what you're doing. 1796 01:34:17,480 --> 01:34:20,520 I think you're doing a really fantastic job out there with 1797 01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:23,760 with Stompy 51 YouTube channel. So the links will be done down 1798 01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:25,840 in the show notes of the podcast. 1799 01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:28,560 Please go down there because the affiliated links with Rosemary 1800 01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:33,520 and Co and you know Stompy's channel links will be there. 1801 01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:36,120 Plus anything else related to the podcast will be there, 1802 01:34:36,160 --> 01:34:38,320 including the YouTube channel. So you can go and check out 1803 01:34:38,320 --> 01:34:41,360 those live streams we'll be talking about during today's 1804 01:34:41,480 --> 01:34:44,440 interview. So with that mate, look, go to 1805 01:34:44,440 --> 01:34:45,520 bed. It's late. 1806 01:34:46,480 --> 01:34:48,800 My day is just about the start. I live in your future my friend, 1807 01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:52,680 so take care and we'll hope to see you and speak to you again 1808 01:34:52,680 --> 01:34:53,760 sometime in the future. Stompy. 1809 01:34:54,440 --> 01:34:57,120 You will keep well, keep safe. OK. 1810 01:34:57,120 --> 01:34:57,880 Thank you. Bye, bye.