1 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,840 All right, buddy, That's great. Well, thanks again, Mick, for 2 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,520 coming on. I really appreciate it, mate. 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:21,280 You early in the morning there for you? 4 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,120 It is. It is quite early here. 5 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:26,200 I was on the, I was on the train. 6 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,360 So I'm in the, I'm in, I'm in work basically, and I'm lucky 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,680 enough to have a job that supports kind of its team's 8 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,600 independent hobbies and interests and happens to also be 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,240 in the field of podcasting and digital media production, hence 10 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,880 the kind of relatively decent camera and and audio setup. 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,280 But I'm not usually in this early, and it was basically me 12 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,840 dressed to come and do a podcast and an entire tram full of 13 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,560 construction workers and nurses and all the other people who 14 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:04,040 usually rise at this time. Right, OK, yeah 'cause I say 15 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,960 your your camera is absolutely like it's just magic mate. 16 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:09,560 The the quality of your camera is a 4K or something. 17 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:14,280 Is it or 8? K it's it's not a webcam, it's a 18 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:21,400 it's an SLR set up to A to a, a kind of an auto prompt thing. 19 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,680 Hence, unlike most zoom calls, I'm as as far as I can tell. 20 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,880 Here, I'm looking you Josh, dead in the eye. 21 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:29,360 Right. OK, so. 22 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,840 It makes the Inter, it makes the interaction a little easier. 23 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,560 Yeah. And yeah, but, you know, I don't 24 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,640 have to look down at the screen or look away to be able to see 25 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,440 what you're saying or see how you're responding. 26 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:39,720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good. 27 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,920 It's, it's nice. It's, it's nice to work in a 28 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:43,960 company where you're, you're kind of supported in your 29 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:45,880 hobbies and interests. And yeah, that's good. 30 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,040 I mean the the Hammer the backlog project. 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,680 Would you believe there's a link to the hammer of the backlog 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,120 project on my company's business website? 33 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:56,360 Oh wow. That's awesome. 34 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:01,400 That's that's the level to which they kind of get involved in in 35 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,360 people's independent projects and interests. 36 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:06,120 Right. OK, mate, that's excellent. 37 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,199 I'm glad you can sort of mix your personal hobby, hobby, you 38 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:10,800 know, projects with your work as well. 39 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,120 In some. Some regards, yeah. 40 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,520 Yeah. Or you in some. 41 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,880 Regards, yeah you you wouldn't recommend it to everybody 42 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,960 because you don't sometimes you want to have a separation it it 43 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,560 just so happens that mine suits basically. 44 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,040 Right. Are there any other gamers in 45 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:26,480 your company that you know of that? 46 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:29,480 That you can sort of talk, no. No, no. 47 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:34,480 But they So I I do. I do bring my I know they say 48 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,320 don't bring your work home, but I bring my hobby to work quite a 49 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,360 bit. So I have one of those those 50 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,440 little portable painting cases that you can see in the 51 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,040 background if you're on the video version. 52 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,160 And there's always intrigue when they come in because I'll paint 53 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,680 at my at my at my at my desk at lunchtime. 54 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,040 And there's always a kind of what what what are you painting 55 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:01,200 is that are those little lizard men or are they obviously for 56 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,520 for normal people the kind of the, the thing that generally 57 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,960 catches the interest is empire or Britonia or something 58 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,400 recognizable. You know if you're not into 59 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,320 fantasy you might not be that excited by goblins but you're 60 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,520 going to understand a unit of nicely painted Knights or a unit 61 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:23,280 of soldiers or I I did some flatulence and they they went 62 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,520 down well because people you know people get the idea of 63 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,880 crazed pilgrims. Anything that you have to 64 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:32,040 explain like no. So these are lizard men they're 65 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,000 they're actually very intelligent and they're they 66 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,040 believe in a great plan. It's like the monsters aren't 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:38,240 they make they're just the baddies. 68 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,240 The the, yeah, human stuff tends to go down better with the when 69 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,400 I'm showing it to, for want of a better term, normal people. 70 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,080 Sounds like a boardroom kind of presentation, I think. 71 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,000 Make for the future, you know. All the rest of. 72 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,480 The of the old world, maybe, yeah. 73 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:01,280 Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Someday I'll subject them to 74 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,520 that. They'll never forgive me. 75 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,440 So yeah, I discovered you through your YouTube channel, 76 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,080 the hammer, the backlog and you know looking through your 77 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,880 projects and being I think everyone and again success to 78 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,480 the amount of views and the popularity, it's sort of picked 79 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,200 up I think for you. Maybe you're a bit sort of taken 80 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,399 aback by that. How many people have responded 81 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:25,120 to your videos or joined up and subscribed and that kind of 82 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:26,760 thing, the last six months or so? 83 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,920 Yeah, it's genuinely genuine. Has been a big surprise. 84 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,600 So I've been I've been involved in Warhammer specifically and 85 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:41,160 mini painting for 2627 years. Like I've I've I've always been 86 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:45,520 around the world of miniature wargaming and painting. 87 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,560 I I would have considered myself more of a collector. 88 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,920 Really then that's just a polite way of saying hoarder. 89 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,200 Though. Like I I always have these ideas 90 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,080 of potentially painting this game up and playing it and 91 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,800 entering these models and competitions, but it was always 92 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,080 more potential than reality. So when I started The Hammer, 93 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,760 the backlog thing, the whole point of there being a YouTube 94 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:15,040 channel was a public accountability for me. 95 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,840 So if I if I have to, if I go online and I say on the 1st of 96 00:05:20,840 --> 00:05:23,000 January, at the end of three months, I'm going to have these 97 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,120 models painted, then because I've put it out there into the 98 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,520 world, because I've put it out there onto YouTube. 99 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,080 I know in three months time I have to follow it up and I have 100 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,000 to show what I've done or explain why I didn't manage to 101 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,720 do it. And that was the kind of only 102 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:41,600 point of the YouTube channel to be honest. 103 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,160 The IT was to have that public accountability and I put the 104 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,920 first video up and you know 60-70. 105 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,600 Eighty people saw it and it ticked up to a couple of 100 106 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,720 over the first few months and I was more than happy with that. 107 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,080 That's fine. That's exactly what I wanted. 108 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:03,320 I wanted to have a a small group of people who would watch it and 109 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,480 therefore I know I have to go back and show those people that 110 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,960 I did what I'd said I'd I'd do. And the second one got 500 111 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,920 views, the third one got 2000 views, the 4th one got 7000 112 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,960 views. And all of a sudden this thing 113 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,080 is growing. And I'm, I'm thinking, OK, how 114 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:20,640 can I grow the channel? What can I do next? 115 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,280 What can I, what sort of content do people want to see? 116 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:28,400 But I always kind of pull myself back to the point of this 117 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:33,400 YouTube channel had a very, very specific purpose which was to be 118 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,760 the public outward facing accountability side of the 119 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,040 hammer, the backlog project. It's fabulous that people enjoy 120 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,240 it. I I really I I I'm so shocked 121 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:51,680 that people enjoy such a potentially potentially boring 122 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:58,120 and rote take on a hobby that is fun and but I think what I've 123 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,520 discovered is there are more people out there like me who 124 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,800 like that side of it than I really really thought there 125 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,560 would be because I mean I'm I'm a decent painter I can paint I 126 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:14,000 I'm I'm my my struggle in in life with with Warhammer 127 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,920 miniature miniature painting has always been over committing to 128 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:23,560 individual models. So, you know, I can paint to I 129 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:28,200 if I'm not being humble, I can paint to a box art standard for 130 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,720 individual miniatures, but it takes me a month and I didn't 131 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,640 really get a level of satisfaction out of that. 132 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:40,080 So the idea of this was force myself, maybe lower my standard 133 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,120 a little bit, but actually get these armies that I've always 134 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,840 wanted, that I've had my head out there and it seems to be 135 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,800 speaking to certainly a niche audience. 136 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:57,080 But there are as many people who enjoy the productivity, 137 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,840 accountability, planning side of this as there are who enjoy the 138 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,600 painting and the nice models and the the fun side of it, which is 139 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:09,120 it's great for me. It's it's I I found the little 140 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,560 group of my people, as it were. Yeah, that's good. 141 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,160 But I think that people want to see you succeed in your goals, 142 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,200 you know what I mean? And they're waiting for that 143 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,200 next three month video to come out to see your end results and 144 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:23,040 see all these wonderfully painted models. 145 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,200 Yeah, you are a really good painted becoming, You know, you, 146 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,000 you know, your stuff really is quite outstanding. 147 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,520 I think the battle report you did for 5th edition, you did 148 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,679 like the Lizardman and the Bretonians. 149 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:37,280 I think the starter set armies, you did that as well. 150 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,320 Yeah. And I know you have another one 151 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,600 planned in the works. I think in the last video you 152 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:42,600 talked about that's. True. 153 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:43,480 Yeah. Yeah. 154 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:49,920 So, so I I kind of, I kind of do one project video per quarter. 155 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,440 So one update on what I painted and update on what's to come. 156 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,760 And one other thing, either a kind of review of a box set or a 157 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:03,760 battle report or next this quarter I'm working on a third 158 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,680 edition Blood Bowl match report, right. 159 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:10,840 So I've got a friend of mine who's a very good, very amusing 160 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,120 voice actor and the the plan is for him, he's going to 161 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,800 commentate on the match in the style of maybe an American 162 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,120 football commentator who happens to be a vampire or something 163 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:21,920 like that. So. 164 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,240 That's the plan, you know. That's excellent. 165 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:26,360 Yeah. So you're sort of finding your 166 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,360 own sort of niche there because you've got your own your 167 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,240 accountability hammer the backlog thing. 168 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,920 But then you've got, you've found these other ways of being 169 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,520 creative in making these battle reports, as you said. 170 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,240 And you know you're going to do other things like unboxings or 171 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,360 revealing things in your collections. 172 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,280 So yeah, you're presenting in your own style, which is nice. 173 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,520 I I I respect that. I think that's a great idea 174 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:49,680 because you're making it entertaining, like the battle 175 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:53,760 report, you know, not like mine. We're like 2 and 2 1/2 hours in. 176 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,680 You get to see the end, but you've you do it in more 177 00:09:56,680 --> 00:10:00,800 narrative sort of style with the voice overs and nice panning of 178 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:02,400 the camera and looking at all the models. 179 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,560 I think that's really what people want to see at the end of 180 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:05,840 the day. You know, they just want to see 181 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,640 nice figures and stuff like that. 182 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:13,080 Well I I love your battle reports when I was like really 183 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,320 looking at what I want to do your your battle reports, 184 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:17,800 especially once you play remotely. 185 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,640 Now that's where you're controlling both sides and you 186 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,520 have someone over zoom for example and they're obviously 187 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,440 playing a game at home on their table and I thought that was 188 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,640 incredibly impressive. I I think he did one with was it 189 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,200 dwarfs and wood elves and the fact that a game like that was 190 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,880 played across the world was incredibly impressive to me. 191 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,640 The the the the going for a narrative style on the battle 192 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:47,280 reports was really a a decision because I thought I will not be 193 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:53,000 able to match or produce something to the quality that 194 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,320 big battle report channels are doing. 195 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:01,520 And and you know I'm not really I I don't have a huge number of 196 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,920 armies I've I've got three or four decently painted 1000 paint 197 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,080 point armies because of the nature of the way I collect. 198 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,760 There is a YouTube called Ed he he has a channel called 199 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:17,040 Minnesotes and he he's the he was kind of the inspiration for 200 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:21,640 the way I I say inspiration I just ripped him off and you know 201 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:26,960 he knows he knows and I know but we we kind of came onto the 202 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:33,560 scene at the same time and he was doing 3rd edition 40K and he 203 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:36,520 painted up the 3rd edition 40K set at the same time I was 204 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,120 painting the 5th edition four hammer fantasy battle set and he 205 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,920 also does really fantastic kind of short form narrative battle 206 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:49,240 reports in the 40K universe and he was a big inspiration and 207 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,120 actually a a good help in in getting mine done because I you 208 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,440 know I was annoying him with questions going what how exactly 209 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:58,560 are you setting it up so the the focus is right when you're 210 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,960 really down in on the table and what sort of lighting are you 211 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,280 using. So it's a very good channel. 212 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,000 I I I'd recommend giving it a look. 213 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:11,560 If you if you enjoyed the way I did my battle reports and you 214 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:14,440 want to see someone who started six months earlier and has 215 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,720 learned all of those mistakes earlier than I did and now has 216 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,920 utterly perfected it, it's a really good channel to check 217 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,440 out. Yeah, and I I know it very well. 218 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,920 I interviewed him, was it last year, I think. 219 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,960 And yeah, I'm a subscriber to his channel. 220 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,760 He's a patron of mine, which is amazing. 221 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,320 I was quite blown away by that because yeah, his stuff is so 222 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,880 good. I mean, I always say to him 223 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:39,760 like, you know, you'll make your quality of what you're doing. 224 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,120 I think he hit 10,000 subscribers recently, which is 225 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,600 fantastic for him. But then you know, he has a 226 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,320 unique style that he brought to YouTube that just like just 227 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,240 immortalizes these old games like Spacehawk, the one he just 228 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,720 did recently for Death Wing. You know, the 2nd edition box 229 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,560 set, painting all the miniatures and playing the scenarios of 230 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:04,000 Armageddon in in the in the box set were just fantastic. 231 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,560 I think it just it sort of presented a new way of 232 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,480 presenting these kind of battle reports, you know, presenting, 233 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,760 you know, and he's got a voice. He's got a great voice for it. 234 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:19,480 He's got good kind of a sense of directorship in his videos. 235 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:24,280 I feel he's sort of it's yeah, so he's just got everything 236 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:25,960 working together and he does it out of a phone. 237 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,160 That's the that's a beautiful thing. 238 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,280 Google phone Google Pixel phone started doing that that way, and 239 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,720 he found it much easier than using a DSLR. 240 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,240 He found the DSLR just took so long and painful and the phone 241 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,040 was so much easier. And it's hard if. 242 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,720 Anyone is thinking of getting into kind of slightly more 243 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,560 narrative battle reports or anything like that. 244 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,400 It's not worth mucking about with a DLDSLR. 245 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,560 Sorry about we just broke up there, I apologize. 246 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:56,680 It must be another glitch in the system, another snotling in my 247 00:13:56,680 --> 00:14:01,120 computer, no doubt. We're practically as far away as 248 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,000 it's possible for two people to be, so I suppose we can't really 249 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,960 complain about the the Internet being a tiny bit unreliable. 250 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,880 I'm actually, I'm actually trying to embark on a doing a 251 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,520 live stream show this weekend on the channel. 252 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:17,760 I mean, I invited Garth from Garth's workshop on. 253 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,600 I don't know if you're familiar with his work, but he's got a 254 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,760 YouTube channel as well and we've been mates since the 255 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,840 Pandemic basically since I've found his channel. 256 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,120 But he's got a really unique way of presenting his painting 257 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:33,280 videos too, and his music videos he makes and that kind of thing. 258 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:37,200 So I'm trying to collaborate with people to come on and and 259 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,280 do sort of like a just a paint just like a basically hanging 260 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,480 out painting and chatting. So we like I picked models, 261 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,760 yeah, pay along kind of thing. And I think a lot of people are 262 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,640 doing that now and I quite enjoy just sitting back and listening 263 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,840 to what they're talking about and that kind of thing and 264 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,840 having the audience engagement as well at the same time. 265 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,000 So hopefully, fingers crossed, my Internet will survive and be 266 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:01,720 stable without it dropping out halfway through, but. 267 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,440 That's one of the kind of. That's one of the big value 268 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,720 adds. I found that the brand command 269 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,960 has added to the kind of retro Warhammer, but Warhammer 270 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,800 painting or mini painting in general is the the paint along 271 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,200 Discord that that you set up. Yes. 272 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,320 Yeah. Like that's a big, that's a big 273 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,000 community and anyone can just kind of drop in and turn their 274 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,720 mic on and and talk painting and it might be like regular faces 275 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,960 or regular voices that returned or you never know who's going to 276 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,320 be in there. It's it's a really interesting 277 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:33,920 way of doing things. I've always been a kind of 278 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,240 solitary painter, so the idea of it took me a while to get my 279 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,040 head around going. What is it better to paint with 280 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,080 people talking? Is it not distracting? 281 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,400 But it actually is. It's great once you get into a 282 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,680 flow, once you once you're not. Once your cognitive load on the 283 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,440 model you're painting isn't too high, then it's great to have 284 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,640 other voices and people to chat to while you're doing it. 285 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,960 Yeah, well, yeah, we like, when I first I got into Discord, I 286 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,160 was kind of against it because I was like, Oh no, it's another 287 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,200 one of these social networking platforms. 288 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:08,640 I don't want to do that. I've already got Facebook. 289 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,240 I've already got, you know, YouTube. 290 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,880 But once I started getting into it, I realized how what a 291 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,400 valuable tool it is. It's so great to connect with 292 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,840 loads, loads of people. You've got that paint and video 293 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,240 aspect to the channels as well. So we can, you know, basically 294 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,120 remote game there. Chris Snyder, one of our regular 295 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:34,080 guys there, he does a lot of Space Hulk remote plays and 296 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,520 Necromunda, Blood Bowl and Man of War was a big popular one, 297 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,320 especially through the pandemic. We played a lot of Man of War 298 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,240 over discord. So it's just been this 299 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,160 revelation for me and I've, I've been hanging out in Discord way 300 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,120 more now than I ever do for the other, for like Facebook or 301 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,560 whatever. I think it's a really great 302 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,000 place to like you say, go and paint and chat with people and 303 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,320 and talk to some guy in in Ireland this morning, a guy in 304 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,280 Australia, a guy in Norway. So yeah we have sort of like 305 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,880 this regular, yeah, regular or irregular sort of meet ups 306 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,160 depending on time zones and people are always in there 307 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:10,720 chatting and painting or showing off. 308 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,440 It's really good. It's really a great, great place 309 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,839 and to hang out. So yeah, I I recommend anybody 310 00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:18,200 to come and check our Discord out. 311 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,040 Even you make you should come chat with us mate. 312 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,000 Yeah, yeah, I'm, you see I'm all, that's the thing. 313 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,680 I'm always lurking there and so I'm always kind of hanging about 314 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,480 on the outskirts, never never quite fully committing to 315 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,200 jumping in because as I was saying there like one of the big 316 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:39,880 things for me was I I find painting has a fairly high 317 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,360 cognitive load for me. So you know I want to do it 318 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:44,760 right. I want to make sure the colour 319 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,840 placement is so I I don't get into that kind of flow that a 320 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,160 lot of people described. I'm I'm always I'm. 321 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,400 I'm probably an overthinker. I'm I'm thinking about what is 322 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,680 the exact colour that needs to go on this neck highlight stage. 323 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:05,400 And it takes me a while to get into painting an army, to the 324 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,800 point where basically I don't need to think about it anymore. 325 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:12,240 And once I get to that point I relax and really enjoy it. 326 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,840 But I actually find the kind of first couple of weeks of 327 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,560 painting a new army stressful is the wrong word. 328 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,920 But, you know, there's certainly something, something where 329 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:23,880 you're going. I I don't want to be distracted 330 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,280 while I'm doing this. I want to. 331 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,160 I want to get this right. This isn't quite working. 332 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,760 Why is it not working? And I think in the past, that's 333 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,000 what used to stop me. That's why I never finished 334 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,760 projects until I started to hammer the backlog. 335 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,040 Kind of I would reach that point and go this this isn't turning 336 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,640 out 100% the way I wanted to. It's taking up too much of my 337 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:48,440 thought space, trying to figure out why it's not turning out the 338 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,560 way I wanted to. I'll put it aside, I'll come 339 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,440 back to it in a few weeks and then obviously that never 340 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,160 happened that that. Just 20 years. 341 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:01,000 Boxes and boxes, exactly, yeah, just boxes and boxes and boxes 342 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,440 of started projects. So anyway that's that's why. 343 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:11,400 That's why it's taking me to kind of till now to be able to 344 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,360 feel like I can engage a little bit more with other painters. 345 00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:21,120 Because I feel a little bit more like I know what I'm doing now 346 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,920 and I've I've got, I've got a system and if I need to I can 347 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,520 switch my brain off, rely on the system and therefore also think 348 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,800 about other things and and talk to other people and do other 349 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,840 things at the same time. But yeah, it's it's it's 350 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,560 definitely a challenge. I think it might be not to get 351 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,800 into pop psychology too much, but it might be a part of the 352 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,280 reason why a lot of people who can't figure out why they don't 353 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,480 finish projects don't finish them all. 354 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,080 Right. No, I mean, that's a fair 355 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:53,720 assessment. Yeah. 356 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:56,160 Yeah. No, I I I knows. 357 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,560 I'm, I'm a psychologist. Yeah, we're all different in in 358 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,920 that regard I suppose and and. Exactly. 359 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,240 You know, some people just like bringing out grey armies. 360 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:07,760 Just no pain. You know what I mean? 361 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:08,640 Like. It's not really. 362 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,520 They don't care. Bigger, bigger problem for them. 363 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,080 So yeah, it it we're all individuals in that in that 364 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,280 sense I think and you know we all have our own standards and 365 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,360 you know our own processes and that kind of thing. 366 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,160 But yeah, I think the social networking groups give us the 367 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,360 motivation maybe to keep pushing through and and the challenges 368 00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:31,680 that have come up by the last few years the call of the Crown. 369 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,760 But there's been a Cow Bunga challenge and you know, many 370 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:39,000 others out there that have really pushed people to, you 371 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,600 know, exceed their expectations, maybe improve their painting, 372 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,520 you know, get long lost projects, actually finished and 373 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,680 started gaming with them and that kind of thing. 374 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:49,440 So it's been really cool and really encouraging. 375 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,240 So, but I just found out to make the last last two years, I just 376 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,880 can't do challenges anymore. I just can't do them because I'm 377 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,000 always going from one to the next to the next to the next 378 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,720 project, you know, and I just cannot commit to anything 379 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:05,840 anymore. So and now, now being a full 380 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,920 time painter, it's now made it just almost impossible for me to 381 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,080 actually, you know, do something seriously like a challenge. 382 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,160 Seriously. Because I just don't have the 383 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,600 time. Yeah, I I totally get that. 384 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:20,480 And that was one of my kind of principles set when I started 385 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,200 hammer the backlog. I said to myself, OK, this is a 386 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,400 pretty rigid system that you're setting up here. 387 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:32,200 So I have, I basically divide my painting time into five blocks 388 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,720 during the week of about three to four hours. 389 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,400 So I, you know, I have other, I have other things going on in my 390 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,880 life. I have work, I have other 391 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,640 hobbies. And so I I probably paint around 392 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:48,960 10 hours a week on a really bad week and 20 hours a week on a on 393 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,400 a good week. So. 394 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:59,600 And I pack my my schedule 1/4 at a time, so I know today exactly 395 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,760 what I'm going to be painting every day for the next three 396 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,520 months. And I know that would drive some 397 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:09,320 people buck wild with boredom, just like, Oh my God, I can't 398 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,480 believe you know what you're going to be painting on a 399 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,840 Thursday six weeks from today. But for me that is getting stuff 400 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,720 done. That is, it's getting modeled, 401 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:25,200 painted that have sat dusty for 20 years or moved around attics 402 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,040 as I moved house. And it's just been so rewarding. 403 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,840 But to get back to the original point, it means that I kind of 404 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,440 had to make an agreement with myself right at the very start. 405 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,920 No challenges. Because if I join a challenge, 406 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,680 that's outside of the scope of the project that I'm doing, and 407 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,520 I can't invent another 20 hours a week to get the project done. 408 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,560 So every now and then I'm very I'm very tempted by joining a 409 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,880 challenge that might match if I can match it up. 410 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,400 You know if someone is. If someone is doing a Warhammer 411 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,240 5th edition 500 point challenge, and it happens to be a time when 412 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,520 I'm also painting Warhammer 5th edition. 413 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,440 But it's again it's not worth generally the disruption that it 414 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,640 was caused to what I'm doing and what's I don't really use this 415 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,560 word very often but what's proving very fulfilling for me 416 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,120 and the the the the challenge, the hobby challenge might be a 417 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:29,320 bit of a distraction. And as someone who is into this 418 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:35,040 whole accountability, commitment, achieving goals, I I 419 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:40,000 I feel I feel nearly a level of physical pain when I see the 420 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,360 jokers or the wildcards or the skipped months start appearing 421 00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,160 in other people's challenges. And and I did. 422 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,000 That couldn't be me. I just there there isn't a world 423 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,200 where I could commit to three challenges and my name would be 424 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,920 beside it and it would say skipped week or missed month or 425 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,640 yeah, that would drive me absolutely crazy. 426 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,320 I would not be able to handle that at all well. 427 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,120 That was me for the Call of the Crown. 428 00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:09,840 I didn't get one one entry in, so that was, wow, Two Strikes 429 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:14,040 out. So and and rightly so. 430 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,800 But yeah, I I can understand that. 431 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,240 I mean, for me, the motivator for me is games. 432 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,400 So for example, yesterday it was announced we're going to have 433 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:26,080 another one renaissance tournament in on March 24th. 434 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:28,840 So I said OK, I'm going to take my dwarves and I want to paint 435 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,120 Ungrim Iron Fierce. And I want to, I want to, you 436 00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:35,720 know, finish off my iron Breakers, put new Shields on 437 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,240 them, paint a new banner. So I've already got a plan 438 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,680 already that I know by the 24th of March I should have my 2000 439 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,440 points of dwarves ready. And then I'm going to paint some 440 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,520 extra different things that I haven't brought before or you 441 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,760 know, finish that minor unit that I started ages ago and 442 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,040 never got finished. So and that way I'm sort of just 443 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,520 that incremental step closer to actually finishing the entire 444 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,960 army. Yeah, very, very close now. 445 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,320 So I'm really looking forward to that. 446 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,680 So yeah, games for me is a big motivator. 447 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,920 But I was thinking too, because in in our discord we had a very 448 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,160 brief time where we did something like that. 449 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,640 So each month we'd we'll pick one of the game systems and say 450 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:21,880 OK for this month, please paint something, you know, either, you 451 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:27,880 know either a squad or a you know battalion of guys or a 452 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,000 squadron of of ships from Man of War or whatever it might be. 453 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,760 It might be another way of sort of getting back into that, maybe 454 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,920 for people, because I think people, some people did enjoy 455 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,840 that they had like sort of a themed month and they sort of 456 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,320 just painted, just grabbed something off the shelf or in 457 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,280 their collection or whatever to paint for that month. 458 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,040 So maybe you should be the instigator for that, Mitch on 459 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,280 our Discord. You should start. 460 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,240 Telling the troops and. Doing some kind of. 461 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:51,240 Order. Let's go guys. 462 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,440 Let's do it. It doesn't become the scrum 463 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,320 master of the Discord channel. It's a funny thing though. 464 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:01,520 It's like it's something that really, genuinely interests me, 465 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,760 is people's motivation to paint. Because I'm not a huge gamer. 466 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,000 I do game. I I have. 467 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,520 I do a lot of TTRPG particularly Warhammer TTRPG which is 468 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,160 fantastic. I just really love it. 469 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,320 But that that has a very low mini requirement. 470 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,720 So you know I could I could knock out the five or six minis 471 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,720 for a session in an afternoon if if if I needed to. 472 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,520 But you know I I had the Warhammer 5th edition fantasy 473 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,840 box set for 24 years before I played the game with it. 474 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,720 It it, it doesn't. It doesn't motivate me in the 475 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,480 way it motivates Someone Like You who gets their armies 476 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,760 painted to play games. Or I don't know if you know Andy 477 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,880 from mediocre hobbies. I've known Andy for a long time 478 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,000 and Andy just can paint anything non-stop. 479 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,680 As long as he needs it for a game, it'll be done. 480 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,120 It's incredibly impressive. He just always has a paintbrush 481 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:00,440 in his hand. But then there are other people, 482 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,800 like you said, who are more than happy to put a grey army on the 483 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,760 table, and therefore that doesn't motivate them. 484 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:11,000 What I've learned about myself in miniature painting is I need 485 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,840 to have exactly what you have, Josh, I think, but for you, it's 486 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,440 for you. The point of really pardon me 487 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,240 for putting words in your mouth, but for you the point of done is 488 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,880 the models are painted. They're on the table for a game 489 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,120 and the game is played and then you've achieved it. 490 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,680 Yeah, But for me, that's not the that's not the moment. 491 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,680 For me, the moment is getting the models photographed, the 492 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,240 photos edited and put online somewhere. 493 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:49,720 And I mean, I don't even really care if people are seeing them. 494 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,560 It's it's, that's not the point. The point is, that's for me, 495 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,320 that's the point of achievement. That's the point where I go. 496 00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,640 I've done it. I've done what I set out to do. 497 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:06,400 The games for me feel like a happy a happy thing I can then 498 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,240 do with the with the models and. But it also means that if I'm 499 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,440 playing with my models, if I'm playing games and a Lance 500 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,960 breaks, I don't freak out like some painters. 501 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,160 My some people who are primarily painters are scared of damaging 502 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,160 their models in games. It doesn't bother me because 503 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,000 it's already achieved I've once it's on that, you know Instagram 504 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:32,320 pane. Sure. 505 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,920 Yeah, what I set out to do and then I can fix it up. 506 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,320 I can fix it up, and maybe I don't fix it up quite as 507 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:42,120 perfectly as I did when I first painted it and but it doesn't 508 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,720 matter because I've already achieved the goal that I set out 509 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,400 to do with that model. Right. 510 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,080 OK, That's interesting. Yeah, that would, that would 511 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,400 drive me nuts if I broke stuff after I painted it. 512 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,560 Because putting all that hard work and time and everything 513 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,120 into into making that perfect for me and then seeing it 514 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,280 scratched or break or something like that, Yeah, it sort of 515 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,800 breaks my heart a little bit. But yeah, that's good. 516 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,680 You can shrunk those that that kind of thing off though. 517 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,080 That's nice. Me so. 518 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,080 Yeah, yeah. It kind of crystallizes the 519 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,880 moment in a way. It is. 520 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,880 There is a record out in the world out in the universe of 521 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:22,000 when this model looked exactly like I wanted to look, and if if 522 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,320 it goes on a journey after that, that's absolutely fine. 523 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,680 One of my favorite ever models is a a Chaos dwarf bull Centaur 524 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,320 that has been dropped about 45 times and you know his his 525 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,600 weapon is irreparably bent. The spike on the top of his head 526 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:43,640 is gone, and he sits on my my painting desk on his own as a 527 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:49,720 reminder that models can break, things can change, and so move 528 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,680 on. He's still there. 529 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,280 He's still one of my favorite models. 530 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,920 He doesn't look picture perfect like the day I finished him, but 531 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,640 he doesn't need to. That's fine. 532 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,800 Sounds like he's the perfect member for the Kasdorf Blood 533 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,200 Bowl team. Actually, he's been beaten up, 534 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,840 so yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 535 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:05,880 It'd fit in, right? Right. 536 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,840 Well, it'd be good. All right, buddy. 537 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,680 Look, we're going to take a quick break and when we come 538 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,960 back, we'll talk about paints and that kind of thing. 539 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,720 I want to. I want to scratch your scratch 540 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,240 your brain about paints, mate. So we're back in just a tick. 541 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:28,800 All right, buddy. So yeah, you've got me. 542 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,560 You've got me interested in contrast paints. 543 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,760 Now, mate, because I've seen your stuff online. 544 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,840 I saw your videos, I saw your stuff on Instagram and then I 545 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,520 think you talked about it in one of your videos or something like 546 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,320 using contrast paints. And I thought, I've really got 547 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,400 to try this because I think you're the only person I've 548 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,920 seen. Well, probably maybe Ben Sayoni 549 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,080 too, like whiskey and Wizards. I know he uses a lot of that 550 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,840 kind of stuff. Yeah, but paint technology, like 551 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,440 the new modern paint sort of style. 552 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,760 I'm sort of interested. A bit curious because it looks 553 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,240 like it does work and it does give a certain effect that does 554 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,800 look appealing if you're doing this kind of very vibrant 555 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,200 colors. Things like, you know, using 556 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,960 yellows and Reds and oranges and purples and Blues to certain 557 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,080 effects. Yeah, using contrast with those 558 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,600 colors, you know, really make models really, they're almost 559 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,640 like shine using this contrast method. 560 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:26,520 So I I picked up some contrast medium from Citadel and started 561 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,800 and started using it for my for this Jean stealer cult project 562 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,800 and a Commission I've been doing and it worked to treat. 563 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,040 So I really wanted to thank you about trying to just inspiring 564 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,040 me to try contrast my finally dragging, kicking and screaming 565 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,840 into the into the New Paint century. 566 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,920 So yeah, no that was that's that's the real achievement for 567 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,120 me because I know, I know how resistant you were to them and 568 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,120 it's, I mean there's a couple of aspects to it. 569 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:58,760 The the first thing is obviously paints are paints are just tools 570 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,280 really and you know you can you can use them. 571 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,840 I would say that I don't paint using the contrast method as it 572 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,040 were. So when when contrast came out, 573 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,200 obviously Games Workshop had this promotional drive to say 574 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,040 this is a new product called contrast paints. 575 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,560 And in order to buy to in order to convince you to buy contrast 576 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,800 paints, we're going to sell you the contrast method. 577 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,920 And I can see why people were resistant to that because the 578 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:35,760 contrast method of spray it white slather on the contrast 579 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,560 paint and then put on one normal highlight as you usually would. 580 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,000 It has a look. There's a distinctive look to it 581 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,240 and as someone who's a little bit of a kind of painting snob, 582 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,600 I can, I can tell if someone took 15 minutes to paint a 583 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,360 model. Yeah, yeah that's not not that 584 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,120 there's anything wrong with it. But if if your if your goal is 585 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,200 getting your models on the tabletop and having them look a 586 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,800 nice array of color from a decent distance away, fantastic. 587 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,360 But you know to to to put it with a display to put them in a 588 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:15,000 display case if there's a whole army painted in the contrast 589 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,280 method. Looks great, looks fabulous. 590 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:23,720 But I kind of like my models to be approaching box art 591 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,000 standards. Maybe not quite there because 592 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,120 I'm kind of forcing myself to lower my standard in order to 593 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,640 get things done. But you know, I I like them to 594 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,280 be vibrant. I like them to be neat. 595 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:38,640 I like them to be detailed. If there's a shiny reflective 596 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,720 surface, it better have a highlight. 597 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,280 Otherwise what? What's the point in painting it? 598 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:52,120 So I use the contrast paints as a tool to achieve that, but I 599 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,480 would say that I don't use the contrast method. 600 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:59,000 So basically what I do is I spray paint white like everyone 601 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,120 else always did for years and years and years until about 602 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,360 about 2005 and suddenly we all started spray painting black. 603 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:14,280 But I spray paint white and I do 90% of my base coats with 604 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,000 contrast paints and and you you said it particularly on the 605 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,719 Chaos Wars. I I did a An Army of Chaos Wars 606 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:28,880 by Fabalzell 3D printed sculpted 3D Chaos Wars and with them it 607 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:34,600 was Reds, Blues, yellows, flesh, purples, blacks. 608 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:40,560 And you can achieve just as vibrant a look as the the 90s 609 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:46,560 paint schemes with contrast paints if you're using them in a 610 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,280 controlled way. So if I'm doing a red, say my, 611 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,560 my, my, the there are two Reds in the contrast range that are 612 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,480 really, really nice. Blood Angel's red and Flesh Tear 613 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,840 is red and Flesh Tear is Red is a little deeper and richer and 614 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,040 Blood Angel's Red is a little oranger and lighter. 615 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,520 But it doesn't really matter which I use most of the time 616 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,960 because it's not just put that on and then highlight. 617 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:16,320 So I'll put that on, then I'll go through basically the normal 618 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,960 highlighting process that we've all been doing since the 90s of 619 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,360 put on a mid tone, put on a broad highlight, put on a a fine 620 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:29,480 line highlight, maybe a a a dot highlight if I'm really pushing 621 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,600 something to the edge of of making it look shiny and 622 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,680 reflective. And all the contrast does in 623 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:42,400 this case is eliminates the need to go back in and shade because 624 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,240 it naturally fills in the the shaded areas. 625 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:52,240 And that's what I really enjoy about it it it eliminates the 626 00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:57,240 need to shade, but also it's a fabulous if you're using the 627 00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:58,680 medium you've you've experienced it. 628 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:04,720 The flow that you get from this new technology, it leaps off the 629 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:10,920 paintbrush And for me, in 2530 years of painting nearly, I 630 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,440 always found base coding the most boring stage. 631 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,400 Because you have to, you have to get a, you have to get a good 632 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,360 coverage, you have to be super neat. 633 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,960 Otherwise you're spending a lot of time trying to go back and 634 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,600 correct later. And you're correcting over 635 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,840 either very vibrant or very dark colours with paints which are 636 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,000 much thinner or much more opaque. 637 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,280 And it's it took a lot of effort and a lot of energy. 638 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:43,560 But I can put the let's say I'm painting a a Chaos Dwarf 639 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,600 trooper. I can get his red base coats 640 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:52,240 done in about 90 seconds. And just to me, the time saved 641 00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:57,360 and doing that is incredible. To get his base neatly painted 642 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:02,360 in 90 seconds because the contrast paint flows so well. 643 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,480 And when I reach a transition, so where his sleeve meets his 644 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:10,040 arm, the contrast paint stops. Yeah, it stops at the hand 645 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,200 naturally. And then when I paint the flesh 646 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,560 on the hand later, also with contrast paint, the the paint 647 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:23,080 stops where it meets the red. And I mean, I know you've, you 648 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,000 must have experienced it and I've experienced it. 649 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,400 You're using a brush. You've been using it for so 650 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,640 long, it's starting to fray a little bit. 651 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:31,600 Your paint. You're putting down your base 652 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,600 coat of Kadian flesh tone. The paint is drying on the brush 653 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,640 faster than it's getting onto the model and you're poking it 654 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,280 into little recesses. And I do not like the the base 655 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:47,400 coding stage of painting models, and that's what contrast does 656 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,520 for me. Then let's say I'm painting red, 657 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,880 you go Evil Sun Scarlet, which is my favorite paint that Games 658 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,960 Workshop I've ever done. Wild Rider Red, Frostbare orange 659 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:02,840 and maybe a a little dot of of a white or a yellow and you're 660 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,840 done. And you get, for me at least, 661 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:12,520 exactly the same quality of finish as if you had done it 662 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,840 with traditional paints. And I'm I'm putting traditional 663 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,440 in air quotes for the people who aren't looking at the video. 664 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:25,560 But you get exactly the same quality of finish in about 60% 665 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:31,000 of the time and for me that's a worthwhile, worthwhile trade 666 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:34,720 because you're skipping that fiddly base coat stage and 667 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:37,320 you're skipping the the wash stage. 668 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:39,760 That's that's what contrast does for me. 669 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,720 You know, I I experienced exactly the same thing because I 670 00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:46,520 used the the contrast medium. So I'm adding it to paint, I'm 671 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,760 adding it to ink and that kind of thing, but did exactly that. 672 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,320 I applied it to the to the model, it sort of stretched out 673 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,280 and it sort of seeped into the areas where I wanted to go. 674 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,120 It didn't over over go or overlap anything. 675 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,240 It sort of just sat right on those the the you know right on 676 00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:03,640 the cusp right on the areas where I had to see it and I 677 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,680 thought wow this has just saved me so much time because 678 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,480 naturally I'm I'm working full time now as a painter so I need 679 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,720 to work fast and I'm looking at different ways of doing that to 680 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,720 to get those base coats down. Now all for these blood Angel, I 681 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,360 had to I I airbrushed them just to get all the the the Orangey 682 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,800 Red base bases on them, the base coats on them. 683 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:29,800 But I could see potential for more organic shaped models like 684 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,800 like clothing or like for the for example the Jean Steelers 685 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,160 Tyranids that kind of thing. Whereas that could just speed 686 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,080 up, you know like you say about 60% of your time just applying 687 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,760 those quick base coats down. So you get a nice sort of deep 688 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,360 shade. You got a mid tone there and 689 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,400 then when it's dry you sort of just build up the layers a 690 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,200 couple more times and then you've got a really nice finish 691 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:53,040 at the end. So yeah, I think they're real. 692 00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,400 I think it's like liquid gold mate to be honest. 693 00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:00,520 You know, it's drinking, It's incredible and adult content 694 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,240 will probably drink it. But yeah, it's it's really good 695 00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:05,360 stuff and I'm really, I'm really glad I've tried it now. 696 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,920 So I'm really curious, you know, from yourself and other other 697 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,040 painters out there of what other kind of additives they're using 698 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,400 for their paints, what other stuff they're using to like I've 699 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,600 heard of Flow Enhancer and you know, things. 700 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,440 Which? Yeah. 701 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,160 The Flow enhancer. I've been using Flow Enhancer 702 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,680 for years and I told you this story very briefly in text, but 703 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,120 I used to enter quite a few painting competitions in Dublin 704 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,720 and it was a small. It was a small scene in Dublin 705 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:37,400 so I'm not waving a flag and saying I was the the the all and 706 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:39,840 end all of painting. But I was entering a few 707 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:41,760 competitions and I was generally winning. 708 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,040 And I think it eventually came out that one of the reasons I 709 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:46,960 was winning was I was essentially cheating by being 710 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,640 the only person who was using these additives. 711 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,680 Things like Flow Enhancer and things like Medium because it 712 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:59,120 was, you know, the early early 2000s and it the early 2000s was 713 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:03,280 still a time when we were trying to convince people to thin their 714 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,360 paints. It wasn't just straight out of 715 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:09,520 the pot onto the model. So Flow Enhancer is fabulous. 716 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,720 It's a fabulous product for acrylic paints because it it 717 00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:16,440 deals exactly with what I was complaining about earlier. 718 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,200 So when you're on, let's say you're doing a display model, 719 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,400 let's say you're doing a Greater Demon, and it's when it's 2006 720 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,840 and paint technology isn't quite where it is today and you're 721 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,960 you've got your size 0000 brush because you're doing, you're 722 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:36,600 painting on his eyelashes. And everyone who's ever got that 723 00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,680 deep into specifically painting details on models has known the 724 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,920 frustration of dipping a model, dipping A paintbrush into a into 725 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,480 a pot, lifting it up, steadying your hand to start painting the 726 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,920 the model, steadying your paintbrush hand, licking your 727 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:58,080 lips, bringing it ever closer. And by the time the model, by 728 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,760 the time the paintbrush touches the model, the tiny amount of 729 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,160 paint that that brush can hold has has dried solid and you're 730 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,480 just poking it. You're poking in, you're hoping 731 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,400 some paint is going to come off onto the eyelashes and you're 732 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,880 going harder and harder and nothing's happening. 733 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:15,640 And that's what Flow Enhancer does. 734 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,560 It stops that from happening. It it just gives you that tiny 735 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:24,760 little bit of extra working time to to get from the pot to the 736 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:29,040 model without it drying out. Now I think it's much less 737 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,120 important these days because paint technology, it's really, 738 00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:37,240 it's really easy for us to ignore how much paints have 739 00:42:37,240 --> 00:42:39,440 improved. Paints are incredible now. 740 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:44,160 People who are learning to paint now have such an advantage over 741 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:50,120 people who were dealing with the chalky fast drying or coverage 742 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,640 paints that we we used to try and paint with in the the 90s 743 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,320 and early 2000s. But if you know if that's 744 00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,680 something that you're experiencing, to be honest, the 745 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,400 real solution is get a better brush. 746 00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:06,880 Get a brush that has a a thicker body so it holds more liquid. 747 00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:09,320 Yeah, but has an equally fine point. 748 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,840 But if you don't have that option, or you you can't find a 749 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,920 brush that has the fine point you need, and you are working 750 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:21,320 with a tiny, tiny tiny brush that's only a handful of hairs, 751 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:26,200 then yeah, flow improver is the absolute secret to making sure 752 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,960 the paint comes off that onto the model where you want it to 753 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:31,760 go. It also means it's very easy to 754 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,080 smudge it though in the drying process, so you have to give it 755 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:36,960 a little bit more working time. Yeah. 756 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:38,600 Now I'm glad we can talk about paints. 757 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,360 It's a really, it's a subject that I really wanted to broach 758 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,720 with people, a guest on the show at some point because we haven't 759 00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:47,400 really touched on it much. But yeah, like, I'm just 760 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,480 astounded how many painting, how many paint companies are out 761 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,600 there just specifically for miniatures. 762 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,840 I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. I could think like, because 763 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,520 someone said to me, a mate of mine, and he said, oh, do you 764 00:43:58,520 --> 00:43:59,680 want to, do you want to buy these paints? 765 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,240 I've got a couple extra sets. They're from Monument Games and 766 00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:05,880 they're the Pro Acryl paints, and I've heard of them and I've 767 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,800 sort of kind of curious about them. 768 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,200 Then I saw Duncan Rhodes paint set and I thought, wow, he's got 769 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:12,840 some really nice hues of color in there. 770 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,240 That was really interesting too. Then the Vallejo model color new 771 00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:17,840 range came out. Try one of those paints, They're 772 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,880 absolutely fantastic. Then they've got this new 773 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,080 Express paints, which is sort of their contrast equivalent, which 774 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,720 looks really cool too. Ali Paint has brought out a new 775 00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:30,120 version of their paints and their people are raving on about 776 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,160 that. So we're just engulfed with all 777 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,000 these different paint companies. And that's just mentioning a 778 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,160 few. That's not mentioning all of 779 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:40,000 them that, you know, because Vallejo, I'm big Vallejo guy. 780 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,000 I've painted. I've used Valleo for now for 20 781 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,320 years since I made the big switch from Citadel to Vallejo 782 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,160 and never looked back. I found it very hard to compete 783 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:52,720 with other paint companies to have the same level of well, 784 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:58,520 same range for example, or same quality at a very good price. 785 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,600 But yeah, now it's just seems that there's just saturated with 786 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,560 with different painting company, paint companies and I'm just 787 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,800 thinking these these people must be really brave to do that 788 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,320 because they're competing against some pretty big boys 789 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,120 like Vallejo. And Vallejo probably be the 790 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,800 biggest one I think in Citadel, you know, huge companies when 791 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,160 you think about it and then she'll reach their, you know, 792 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,600 their the, the amount of stock they can get into stores and 793 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,040 that kind of thing and how available they are. 794 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:29,640 So I really give give credit to those guys like Duncan Rhodes, 795 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,640 like making his own paint range. That's pretty big. 796 00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:36,400 The Internet has democratized it in a way, hasn't it, that it's a 797 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,920 a small paint manufacturer can come and make a big splash on 798 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,720 the Internet. They don't need to by GW for 799 00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:48,080 shelf space in retailers. They can, they can go out and 800 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,400 go, hey guys, we're advertising directly for you the audience. 801 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,680 We've got this niche product and I'm specifically I'm thinking of 802 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,800 the the range of niche paints that are coming out of. 803 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,040 These are the paints you remember from the 90s. 804 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,000 These are the paints you remember from the early 2000s. 805 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,240 They they, they don't have to compete. 806 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:09,480 They just go out and they say we're we're aiming these at you. 807 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,240 These are the paints you remember from the 90s. 808 00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:14,200 These are the paints from 2000s, These are the paints from 809 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,520 10/20/10. These are the paints that do do 810 00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,720 this faster. These are the paints that never 811 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,400 dry out. There's always new additives, 812 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,880 new different ways of selling them to you coming along. 813 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:36,880 Personally, I have a fairly modest number of paints that I 814 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:43,440 use daily, and I have a huge number of paints, but I probably 815 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,320 use about 50 paints in total. OK. 816 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:48,760 I don't know about about you, Josh. 817 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,360 Would you use more or? Not really. 818 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:55,400 I sort of have a set, you know, set number that I really like 819 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,440 and it's really hard for me to to change them out with 820 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,840 something else. I've I've grabbed a couple of 821 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:05,160 Citadel paints just because of necessity and availability try 822 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:06,960 them out and I've been impressed with that. 823 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,440 But I really like drop a bottle paints and it's really hard for 824 00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:12,760 me to budget off Valeo personally. 825 00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:17,280 I do have a set number of favourites but then it's just 826 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,680 it's me, not really you know wanting to experiment and step 827 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,760 out and try something else. Because I think, I I'm think I 828 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,680 think at this this stage and this year I want to really try 829 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:29,200 to just grab a few AK Interactive paints. 830 00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:32,120 Few you know the TT Combat paints. 831 00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,640 Ben always says they're amazing. So there's another, you know we 832 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,680 mentioned two other companies that make paints as well that 833 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,200 people seem to really you know, champion because how good they 834 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,360 are. War Colours is another one 835 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,400 that's stepped on the market. Well he's been around for a 836 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,640 while, but he's got his own nostalgia 94 range as well and 837 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,200 had previously 88 range. So you know, we could just keep 838 00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,360 on you know, rifling off many different companies. 839 00:47:57,720 --> 00:48:02,760 They they all offer something interesting and you know, I've 840 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:07,440 got some of the the Nostalgia 90, sorry Nostalgia 88 inks, 841 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,960 which are just brilliant. They're absolutely fantastic. 842 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:11,280 They're the best inks I've ever used. 843 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:14,400 Unfortunately, they don't make them anymore because they're 844 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,800 like a gel based ink. So the contrast with them just 845 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,080 makes them even better. You know, there's really quite 846 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,800 dense, you know, when you're using it. 847 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,680 So I'm I'm sure that these companies that have come out now 848 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,000 and they have something like even Army Painter probably have 849 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,080 something they're talking about their speed, paint metallics, 850 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:34,560 maybe they're really, really good. 851 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,040 I don't know. I just need to try it. 852 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,640 So yeah, it's been, it's been. I think this year it's going to 853 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,280 be more of an experiment for me because I want to try out 854 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,160 different things in different colors and different paint 855 00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,560 ranges. Not that I'm asking any 856 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:48,600 sponsorship from people send me stuff, it'd be nice. 857 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,200 I'd be more than happy to try it out. 858 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,760 I know that Nick Neo sent me some stuff from wall colors and 859 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,800 I've tried those out with, yeah, some success and some not. 860 00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,520 But yeah, it's been interesting though. 861 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,600 But. Ben, Ben, Ben from Whiskey 862 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:04,640 Wizards. Ben, Ben, Tony. 863 00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:12,760 He's he's a fabulous example of, I think, how I I think maybe in 864 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,920 the last couple of years there was this slight feeling amongst 865 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:21,600 people getting back into retro Warhammer that the only way to 866 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,720 get the retro Warhammer look was to use the retro Warhammer 867 00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:26,840 paints. Yeah. 868 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,440 And then a couple of painters came out. 869 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:33,080 Maybe I'm a little bit one of them because of my insistence on 870 00:49:33,240 --> 00:49:36,280 you can get her, you can get a crisp, clean, retro look with 871 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,520 contrast. But then there's also, Ben was a 872 00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:44,400 fabulous example and Will who does this, the space walls, they 873 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:49,080 all use modern paints. You do not need to use classic 874 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:55,120 paints to get that classic look, especially like modern Games 875 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:59,320 Workshop paints like Wild Wild Red or Evil Sun Scarlet. 876 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,480 Evil Sun Scarlet is, in my opinion, the best red paint the 877 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,080 Games Workshop has ever. I'm going to write that name 878 00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:07,200 down. Actually, I'm going to write 879 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:08,200 that down. Evil Sun scarlet. 880 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:10,080 It's an incredible paint. Now. 881 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,520 It's not like it doesn't do anything magic. 882 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,320 It doesn't it. It's just the red paint. 883 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:20,160 But it's it's it's so I don't even know because I I kind of 884 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:24,040 ignore what the manufacturers say paints are for. 885 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:29,400 So when Games Workshop started saying base layer, highlight, 886 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,800 edge, doesn't matter. So I don't care what. 887 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,320 I don't care what they say it's for. 888 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,680 It's how does the paint behave? What does it do? 889 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,880 What does the tone look like, What color is it, and how am I 890 00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,960 going to use it? And you can get the exact 891 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:53,920 feeling of a 1994 Army book relying on evil sun scarlet, 892 00:50:54,360 --> 00:51:01,320 very modern, very opaque, very well nicely flowing, super easy 893 00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:05,120 to use Red. You take that paint you, you put 894 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,800 a white base coat on something, you thin that paint down. 895 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:13,600 I would use Lamian medium. Which is which is Citadel's 896 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,480 Other medium that they sell. They sell contrast medium. 897 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:22,200 They sell lamium medium. Lamium medium is more. 898 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:23,760 It doesn't give the contrast effect. 899 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:25,520 It basically. It mats it. 900 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,760 Bins your paint down without being water. 901 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:29,440 Right. OK, gotcha. 902 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:37,520 So you you put you give three coats of Evil Sun Scarlet binned 903 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:43,680 with lamium medium over white and that is just as crisp and as 904 00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:47,960 vibrant as as if it came out of the heavy metal studio in 1996. 905 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:52,960 It's it doesn't matter what paint you're using really it's 906 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,040 more about the technique and what you're what you're trying 907 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,360 to achieve and the look you're going for. 908 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,720 I think sometimes people and I I think this is part kind of 909 00:52:04,720 --> 00:52:06,800 sometimes the paint manufacturer's issue they they 910 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,840 they bring this on themselves when they kind of say this is 911 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,320 what our paint is for and and and Games Workshop did that with 912 00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,280 contrast and they put people like you and people like me 913 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:23,880 initially off buying them because when they said this is 914 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,760 for getting your army quickly onto the table. 915 00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:27,840 I don't want my army quickly on the table. 916 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,280 I want my army to look nice and vibrant and and detailed. 917 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:37,560 I don't want it to look sloppy and fast and and and like I I 918 00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,040 didn't keep caring about where. I washed out. 919 00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,960 I think that's that's what the initial put off was for me. 920 00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:47,520 Once I saw people using contrast early on, they they look bloody 921 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,080 awful because they looked all washed out. 922 00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,760 There was no kind of solid color to them. 923 00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,320 There was this just really, yeah, I just was totally. 924 00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,560 I just thought it was going to be like just a fad that was just 925 00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,400 fade away. But it hasn't. 926 00:52:59,720 --> 00:53:01,800 It's time to stay because like all these other companies are 927 00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:03,640 now making their own versions of it so. 928 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:06,040 Yeah. Well, I mean games Workshops 929 00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,520 also had a certain irony in that again which they brought on 930 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:13,280 themselves that their flagship models, Stormcast, Eternals and 931 00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,880 Space Marines amongst the worst models to paint with contrast 932 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,640 paint because they're just full of large flat areas or 933 00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,120 metallics. They're the two worst things to 934 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:24,480 be painting with contrast paints. 935 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,880 Space Marines can look very nice. 936 00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:31,400 You can do very nice Space Marines with a base of contrast 937 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,520 if you're careful and then you build up the layers afterwards. 938 00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,840 But contrast paint just straight onto the flat panels of a Space 939 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,040 Marine. One of the worst combinations of 940 00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:42,920 model and paint technology you can get. 941 00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:44,840 So they kind of caused that themselves. 942 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:51,000 But Josh, you probably remember when washes came out, like the 943 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,720 when when Agrax Urch State first came out. 944 00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:55,520 Never used it. Every. 945 00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:57,960 You never touched it. That's amazing. 946 00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:00,280 It's both amazing and not surprising. 947 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,560 I. Suppose I'm an ancient beast. 948 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,560 You know, I'm very very simple. But that came out. 949 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:07,320 I don't know. When did that come out, 2006, 950 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,840 something like that. Maybe a little bit later. 951 00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:16,360 But there was a phase when every army in your local game shop had 952 00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,760 that same overall brown tone to it. 953 00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,120 That's. Probably why I didn't use it. 954 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,280 Because it sounds exactly. Yeah. 955 00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,720 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it it so you know the if 956 00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:31,200 when people talk about the periods of kind of Games 957 00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,160 Workshop art, they they always talk about like the red periods 958 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,920 and the early 90s when they were putting red on everything 959 00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:38,440 because it was the best paint they had. 960 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:47,320 But for me, kind of 1999 to about 2007, I just remember that 961 00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:52,040 as the brown period, right? Everyone's models were sloshed 962 00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:58,640 in Devlin Mud or Agraxler's Shade or, and I think it took me 963 00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,280 a while to go, you can actually use this. 964 00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:05,040 This does have uses. Don't lash it on every model, 965 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,760 irregardless of the colour scheme or the vibe you're going 966 00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,280 for or what you're trying to achieve. 967 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:15,080 But there are areas where having this paint as a tool that you 968 00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:18,680 decide how to use it is is great. 969 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,640 The whole kind of liquid talent is basically where I draw the 970 00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:25,240 line. If someone says use this product 971 00:55:25,240 --> 00:55:29,760 as liquid talent, basically to me that says also what you're 972 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,480 saying is everyone's army is going to look kind of broadly 973 00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,920 the same and a little bit washed out and a little bit under 974 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:36,640 detailed. Yeah. 975 00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,800 But again, you know I'm not a mass army painter, I'm not 976 00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:44,640 painting a 4000 point army every couple of months. 977 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:49,040 So I'm not judging the people who do that, but it does produce 978 00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:55,440 a very formulaic result, yeah, which isn't the only thing you 979 00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,040 can do with the paint, which I think was my original point. 980 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:03,080 Yeah, I think, I think it became kind of a process that people, 981 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,720 everyone sort of started doing because they sort of learnt from 982 00:56:05,720 --> 00:56:07,120 other people. They learnt from the game 983 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,120 sweatshop store. Yeah, you just paint it, paint 984 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,760 it blue and then just just dip, you know, just get this Aggrath 985 00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,800 Earth shade and just, you know, just, you know, drown it in 986 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:16,640 that. Because like even when I see 987 00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,320 Ed's videos on Minisodes, he's painting his Marines and he's 988 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,720 put it like a red base coat or something on the Marine and then 989 00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:25,560 he puts his aggreth earth shade over it as a Washington. 990 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:27,960 And I'm like, no, don't do that. You're ruining it. 991 00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,640 You know, Like it just, I would never do that, you know. 992 00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,200 But for him, he gets his certain results that he's looking for. 993 00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,480 But I think, yeah, for that, you're right, it it fits a 994 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,760 certain style at a certain point. 995 00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:44,040 So if I was doing like Dark Age miniatures or something like 996 00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,640 that, or and I think that Earth, you know, the Earth shade would 997 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:51,400 work perfectly for that. They're really grimy, you know 998 00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,120 that. You know, a lot of those armies 999 00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,320 are just brown, you know, But for a blood Angel, space marine, 1000 00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,280 I wouldn't put it anywhere near it, you know, so. 1001 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,200 So there's there's actually aggress. 1002 00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,080 I think one of the things that I've painted that people 1003 00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:06,800 particularly like were my Chaos Wars. 1004 00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,120 Yeah, yeah. And you know, they were, they 1005 00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,880 were vibrant and old fashioned but beautiful models. 1006 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,640 Again, I'll say Fable Zell, the, the guy who made them, just 1007 00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,400 incredible job. But there's a there's an earth, 1008 00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,480 there's an egg rice earth stage. Earth's, what's it called? 1009 00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:28,520 Egg racks, Earth shade stage. There's an egg racks, earth 1010 00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,400 shade stage in that painting process. 1011 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,000 So I use it for the metallics on those models. 1012 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,120 Only the metallics. I don't slush it all over 1013 00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:40,840 because I've spent an hour per model highlighting individual 1014 00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:45,600 scale male from Eelson Scarlett to wild rather red to troll 1015 00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:50,800 sailor orange to Dorne yellow and the thought of them washing 1016 00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,000 agraxas shade over that just sends a shiver down my spine. 1017 00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:59,960 But I like my Chaos dwarfs to have kind of not rusty but a a 1018 00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:06,080 dull metal a a lustreless metal. And for me, for for that effect 1019 00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:08,680 I got, I got. I can't say the name of that 1020 00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,400 paint. The brown, paint the brown the 1021 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,520 brown liquid works really well. Yeah, but I I totally get, I 1022 00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:19,680 think, I think like you said, for a certain particular purpose 1023 00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,440 for an application, it's perfect. 1024 00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,760 But you know, just thinking about it now, it's kind of like 1025 00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:26,240 the modern equivalent to dry brushing. 1026 00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,520 Because when we got into painting initially in the 1027 00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:33,040 Citadel paint guide, I mean this is going back to 1991. 1028 00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,640 The first thing you learn about was dry brushing and if one dry 1029 00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:40,000 brushed and one base coat dry brushed and the. 1030 00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,840 Earth. Cracks Earth show. 1031 00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,120 Whatever it's called that thing is what the what the modern 1032 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:49,680 equivalent to Brunt because no one dry brushed. 1033 00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:51,960 Everyone just put a base coat and washed it down. 1034 00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,800 You know what I mean? So that's what the modern day 1035 00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:59,640 painters are. But yeah, I mean it's just a 1036 00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,120 it's just a bad habit people got into. 1037 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,320 But maybe some people worked with it and they just got the 1038 00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,240 results they desired by doing it. 1039 00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,720 Maybe they didn't or they maybe that's why they just never felt 1040 00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:10,320 very satisfied with their paint jobs. 1041 00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:12,880 And maybe for some people it's just, yeah, that just hits the 1042 00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,480 right note and I think Yep, that's done. 1043 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:16,880 You know, I don't need to highlight. 1044 00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,320 It's a shade and that's it. And you know where we go. 1045 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,560 Especially if they're large army painters and they they they step 1046 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:25,520 back and look at their collection and go there's that 1047 00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,080 army. That army looks fabulous and 1048 00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:29,320 they don't get down to an individual model level. 1049 00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,880 But that's you know who who am I to com? 1050 00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,840 Who am I to judge in the sense? Because the the fact that I want 1051 00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:41,480 my individual models to be display worthy is why I spent 25 1052 00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:45,280 years not having any armies. I only had individual display 1053 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:49,480 models, so I'm on a journey basically to bring myself back 1054 00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:54,720 from the other extreme, which is, you know, it's been a nice, 1055 00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:56,160 a nice journey, a nice experience. 1056 00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:57,920 Absolutely, mate. No, it's been really good to 1057 00:59:57,920 --> 00:59:59,760 talk to you today and I really appreciate your time. 1058 00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,520 I know it's early in the morning for you and you're going to have 1059 01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:05,640 to start work soon, so but we'll have to get you back on because 1060 01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:09,960 like I said, I'm going to do this live stream show series 1061 01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:11,800 hopefully if my Internet will survive it. 1062 01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:16,000 I'd like to get you back on at some point when it's not in your 1063 01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,000 early morning, maybe you're in your sort of afternoon on the 1064 01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,600 weekend or something. We can have a bit of a paint and 1065 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,840 chat about more about paints and stuff like that. 1066 01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:26,080 And you know the revolution that's happening in the in the 1067 01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:27,760 painting world for miniature painting. 1068 01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:30,960 That would be fantastic. I would be delighted. 1069 01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,800 Wonderful, mate. And I'll leave some links in the 1070 01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,480 show notes of this podcast episode so people can come and 1071 01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:40,440 check out your YouTube channel. And you have a blog as well for 1072 01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:41,880 Hammer the Black backlog, Is that right? 1073 01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,880 Www.hammerthebacklog.com. Right. 1074 01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:47,240 OK. So people can go and check out 1075 01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:49,920 and then they've got a nice point of reference. 1076 01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,680 They can see, you know, the very start of your projects to 1077 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:55,080 completion, that kind of thing. So it'd be nice. 1078 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,240 Exactly. And that especially if the 1079 01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:00,440 project management side of it is, is what's more interesting, 1080 01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,960 right then that's that's where you see that side of things 1081 01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,360 particularly. Right, OK, Mick. 1082 01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:07,560 Well, you take care of yourself mate. 1083 01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:09,520 Enjoy your painting. I look forward to the next video 1084 01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:14,360 you you drop on the YouTube channel and until then, take 1085 01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:16,480 care. Thank you very much. 1086 01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:17,960 OK mate. See you then. 1087 01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:18,920 Take care.