1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,160 Hello everybody. Thank you very much again for 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,640 downloading the Chrome Command Podcast, and I hope you enjoy 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:14,000 our interview with Broniac. It's Marco over in Norway, all 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,480 about his journey into sculpting back in the 90s and how that 5 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:23,440 sort of evolved into what he's doing now with 3D sculpting and 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,560 making some wonderful big hats, The cast wolves, of course, from 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,600 4th and 5th edition. So I hope you enjoy that. 8 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,000 And also just a big thank you to everybody who sent out their 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,480 well wishes to my little boy Leo, as he's been in hospital 10 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:40,160 with a broken leg in an incident that happened last Thursday. 11 00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:42,920 It's a week from now since it happened. 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:48,320 And I just wanted to say thank you very much for all your very 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:53,560 kind words, all that positivity that really I, I believe 14 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:55,800 personally, I believe that really helped in his recovery, 15 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,360 the positive energy from all of you sending it all the way to 16 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:04,840 Leo over here in Japan. So with a miraculous speedy 17 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,360 recovery. So that's great. 18 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,520 So I'm really happy about that. And he's home, he's happy. 19 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,080 He's got his Nintendo Switch, he's got the TV remote control, 20 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,160 he's got snacks, he's got his grandmother giving me 21 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:19,680 everything, you know, any beck and call that he has got me 22 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,800 running around, you know, for him. 23 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,760 So you know, you can't, you can't be happier really, 24 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,600 honestly. So thank you so much again for 25 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:32,120 the people on YouTube, Patreon, Discord and messages I've 26 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,640 received on messenger just sitting there with wishes to as 27 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,480 it was a pretty tough time. It was a very, very traumatic 28 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,840 thing that I hope no one ever goes through because you hear 29 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,080 about these things on the on the news and you just think it 30 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,520 wouldn't have ever happened to you or your family and then 31 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:54,000 bang, there it goes. So look, just want to say thank 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,720 you very much for that and thank you for your patience because 33 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,360 obviously that like now my situation now being a home, like 34 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:06,280 I work from home and I'm nursing my boy as well and you know, 35 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,160 getting him things as he can't move around. 36 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,360 He's in mobile at the moment practically. 37 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,440 So that's going to slow down things production wise with 38 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,720 videos, podcasts, just, you know, anything to do with my 39 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,360 Patreon, everything like that sort of going to slow down a 40 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,520 little bit. But you know, you guys are very 41 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:24,960 understanding. I know that, you know, we're 42 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,560 all, we're all, you know, all adults. 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,400 We'll have work and family commitments and that kind of 44 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,720 thing. So, but good things are on the 45 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,400 way. So look forward to that when it 46 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,320 does drop and when it does come, I've got some great ideas. 47 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,960 I've had time to reflect on things. 48 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,960 So great interviews becoming through the podcast, great 49 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:47,360 videos becoming on the YouTube channel and other content 50 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,840 exclusive to Patreon will follow in in due course. 51 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,480 So guys, enjoy that when it comes, but thank you very much 52 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,600 again and enjoy the interview again today with Marco from all 53 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:03,720 the way from Norway, OK, enjoy well. 54 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,920 Enough about cars, let's talk about house dwarfs and yourself. 55 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:13,840 But I have an impression to make. 56 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,880 I haven't seen your latest podcast slash video but I saw 57 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,080 that they featured Chaos Dwarfs. They do. 58 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,640 They do starting in. Are you starting a chaos war of 59 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:25,840 army? No, no, this is a Commission 60 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,960 from my good friend Gordon Ennis, one of my patrons. 61 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,560 So he's very generous and kind and sending me like this massive 62 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,360 box was very heavy. They'd sit very heavier by tray 63 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,680 here. So because they're really solid 64 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,720 models, if you get him in metal, I mean, yeah, they've got a lot 65 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:41,920 of heft to them, that's for sure. 66 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,120 But that's a Commission, man. Yeah, yeah. 67 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,400 Nice. So starting that one, yeah, for 68 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,160 sure. Will you be going for the 69 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,960 classic red, gold and black scheme or? 70 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,640 Yeah, absolutely. Like it's basically just 71 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,880 straight out of the army book pages, those colour schemes. 72 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,080 Yeah. It's so iconic. 73 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:09,000 I mean, there are lots of people who paint like my miniatures in 74 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,240 in different shades of teal and stuff. 75 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,680 That the thing I've seen that works almost as well as the 76 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:23,160 classic paint style is with just with black beards and orange 77 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,120 scale armor that seems to work very well sometimes. 78 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:31,680 But it it it, it doesn't scream Chaos Dwarf the same way as the 79 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,240 the the really classic. Paint style, yeah, I've seen, 80 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,200 I've seen someone do that maybe in a White Dwarf magazine. 81 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,720 Someone did like an alternative scheme like that with an orange 82 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:45,560 armor to give that sort of, you know, volcanic lava effect on 83 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,920 their and maybe the the bases were done in lava and that kind 84 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,320 of thing. So yeah, I have seen it done 85 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,800 alternatively, but yeah, I think the red just screams because 86 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:59,160 it's the red era. So it's basically that really is 87 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,480 an iconic look that is very profound within the Chaos Dwarf 88 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,240 paint schemes. And I think it really works with 89 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:05,880 them. The red, you know, red scale 90 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:11,600 armor, you know all the the big what do you call them half 91 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,680 tourist type guys the. They're the bulls and tours. 92 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:19,880 Nice and red. All the hats are red, you know. 93 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,560 Yeah, yeah. People call it the games 94 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:28,120 workshops red period right. I I tend to call it games 95 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:34,520 workshops period, but I like it they love it that's when I got 96 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,920 it hobby thing and you know everything was red even the the 97 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,920 shafts of the undead bright red straight up from the grave. 98 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,480 You know it's. Or you could say it's a bloody 99 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,880 red, period. The bloody, the bloody red 100 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,840 paint. Yeah, that's when. 101 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,160 Did you? But you worked on the actual 102 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,800 heavy metal team back in the day, right? 103 00:05:58,280 --> 00:06:01,040 The heavy metal team, Yeah, just very briefly, about four months. 104 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,560 Wonderful. And that was in 90 something. 105 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,080 I think it would be 96 because yeah, I think I've got my. 106 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,600 I think I, I always say I've got there 94 went to 95. 107 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,960 I think I actually got there 95 basically I got when I arrived, 108 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:22,280 it was just pre eminent of the Wermer Quest set coming out, the 109 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:26,080 Wermer Quest box set, it was just getting released that time. 110 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,720 So whenever that date was, I'm pretty sure it's 1995. 111 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:36,840 And then I worked, I think I started at the studio in 1996 112 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,480 because at that time it was just at the end we're just doing the 113 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:44,800 ward off book, the chaos space brains for 40K second edition. 114 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,640 And then the hideous lizard men were coming to make their 115 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,520 appearance in the 5th edition start a box set. 116 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,280 So that's when I, I did, I worked on that. 117 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:57,080 And then I left just after that. Maybe I always blame Elizabeth 118 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,680 and I think that's probably their fault as well. 119 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,560 I left well too early, before my time. 120 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:06,000 Yeah, that's, but you never worked on the the actual chaos 121 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,000 stores because they were on the way, right? 122 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,760 I, you know, to be honest, I never gave them a second glance. 123 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,040 I just, and I think someone else, I think Captain Skyhawk 124 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,080 commented on my video yesterday too, that he never really looked 125 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,840 at them, you know, gave them second glance, but now he loves 126 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:24,240 them. And I think that's the same for 127 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,600 undead For me, I never really gave them the second look, but 128 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,840 now I absolutely adore the undead models. 129 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,760 And same for the the cast dwarves. 130 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,400 I think they fit within the same basket. 131 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:38,520 It's kind of though the the ugly children of 19951994, but now 132 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:43,240 they're the beloved children now of you know, of the the 2000s. 133 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,800 So yeah, they're they're the highest collectible army out 134 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,640 there. The army book for cast or 135 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,960 surprisingly goes for like over $120.00 or something US. 136 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:59,240 Yeah, even I don't have. Oh, we've got to fix that. 137 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,080 I, I have all the white dwarfs from the era and that's why I 138 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,560 got interested in them because it was in at the exact same time 139 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,480 when I sort of, I realized that there was a hobby for nerds with 140 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,600 the athletic ability of a garden snail and it was miniatures. 141 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:21,920 And so I, I started buying white dwarfs that were basically, I 142 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,160 sent my brother to the, to the capital and then he brought back 143 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,160 the newest, never before seen as white dwarf. 144 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,679 And it was a revelation. And it included it's the, the I 145 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,520 don't remember the exactly which number it was, but it, it was 146 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,760 one with the, the, the elder, the blue elder on in front. 147 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:45,400 And you have. Oh it's my my first issue 147. 148 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,000 OK, yeah, it's probably, it's got private place in the the 149 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,880 shelf here and it, it has some rules for Chaos Wars, right? 150 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,720 That's it. No, no, that's that's a 151 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,480 different one then. Yeah, 147 had rules for Epic 152 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:02,880 Space Brain Elder and it I think it was the time when Renegades 153 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,320 was about to be launched for Epic Space Marine had Empire in 154 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:07,880 it. Right, right, right. 155 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,560 I, I may be mixing things up, but I'm very sure that one of 156 00:09:11,560 --> 00:09:15,680 the earliest white dwarfs I got, that's when the Chaos Dwarf 157 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:21,120 rules started to be printed in White Dwarf as and serialized 158 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,280 sort of thing. And I, I was on such a limited 159 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,960 budget back then, so actually buying an army book or even the 160 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:29,960 game was sort of out of my league. 161 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,560 But I could buy the white dwarfs and here were rules for an 162 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:37,680 actual army. And I, I just took one look at 163 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:43,880 these caricatures of a pastiche of a it's they're so silly, 164 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,880 right, With their hats. And they're, they're, they're 165 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,920 dwarfs that are friendly with the green skins. 166 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,080 And they're, they're they're deliciously weird, right? 167 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,880 And I'm, I'm thinking, OK, it's gonna be these guys for me from 168 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:58,560 here on out. That's it, right? 169 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:00,320 OK. Yeah. 170 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,680 So it was like love at first sight back in the day. 171 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:10,600 And but as I said, we, I don't think we, I always thought of 172 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,000 ourselves as my family as being poor, but it turned out as I 173 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,280 grew older, I realized that we were just really stingy so. 174 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,800 It was true at the heart. And then absolutely, yeah. 175 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, so spending money on 176 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,000 something as frivolous as miniatures was out of the out of 177 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,560 the question really, at least enough for for getting the 178 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:34,800 actual army. So the alternative was to sculpt 179 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,720 your own. And that's what I did. 180 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,600 And I, I remember the first thing I did was I saw an 181 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:45,040 interview with the sculptor and the white dwarf and I figure, 182 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:50,000 OK, that's it. And I then I saw the, I've 183 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,800 started looking into it and I saw this, that each sculpt, each 184 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,000 miniature had a name under it saying sculpted by. 185 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,720 And I saw Kemmler. The the, what was it? 186 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,600 Inish Kemmler, Beautiful miniature. 187 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,040 You know, the thing with the the skull stuff and and I thought, 188 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,760 wow, OK, I'm gonna just kill this and nip this in the butt. 189 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,000 I can never be good enough to make something like that. 190 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:16,440 And then I turn the page and I see Nagash. 191 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,040 And I didn't click there. It was sculpted by the same guy. 192 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,200 But I thought, OK, I can do better than that. 193 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:29,160 That sort of inspired me. Know that? 194 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,080 Yeah. I love that Heinrich Campbell. 195 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,520 I got it sitting here in one of Gary's actually, and the Nagash 196 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:40,040 model and I I, yeah, if even though Nagash wasn't my favorite 197 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,080 top five miniature of all time. But now I sort of become to 198 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,920 really love it, you know, all these years later. 199 00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:50,600 It has a certain charm and there are parts of it that are 200 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,480 technically very good, like the like the glove. 201 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,880 But the you, you know, the the story behind Gary, Gary's model 202 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:02,440 here. And he, he sculpted the the head 203 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,840 as a form of revenge or to show that how stupid his art 204 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,480 direction was. And they went for it. 205 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,440 You know, that's right. Yeah. 206 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,720 I usually say that it's it. It wasn't Gary's fault at all, 207 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,640 because back in those days the Citadel creative team was 208 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,440 labouring under the cruel art direction of the Teletubbies. 209 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:29,800 At least that's what it looks like. 210 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,960 So I I've got nothing but love for Gary Morley. 211 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,480 He, he inspired me to start sculpting and then I started 212 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:46,000 studying and I actually had a bit of a side gig sculpting 213 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:51,320 custom minis. And there was AI got AI became 214 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,960 sort of known in the, the nerd circles at the time. 215 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,120 And they, there was a convention in Oslo every year. 216 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:04,640 And I remember one year, I think this was maybe 1995 or 1996, 217 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:08,880 they, they had, they had the miniature competition and one of 218 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:15,800 the, the, the categories was for converted or scratch built 219 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,960 miniatures. And all of the miniatures in 220 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,720 that last case were made by me and then sold to other guys who 221 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:28,520 painted them, except for one. And the, the judges pointed out 222 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,880 that, see, there's some other guys who's sculpting here, not 223 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,760 just you. And it turned out that no, no, 224 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:40,960 that was me as well. But it it was so weird because I 225 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,280 couldn't understand why painters were. 226 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,480 There were such a lot of talented painters around, but 227 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,440 very few sculptors. Yeah. 228 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,320 So I never understood why, why painters were. 229 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,760 To me, painting seems very, very complicated, right? 230 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,960 You have to understand texture, you have to understand form, and 231 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,760 you have to understand the freaking light, how that 232 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,280 interacts with everything. You have to basically do 233 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:08,920 Maxwell's Equations in your head. 234 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:12,480 Whereas sculpting, that's just understanding the shape of 235 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,120 things, at least for me, it seems very, very simple. 236 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,800 So yeah. So anyway, I started, I did the 237 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,520 sculpting on and off while studying and I, but I had to 238 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,560 experiment. There was no green stuff 239 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:33,240 available, at least in my area. I, I, I read the interview and 240 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,720 White Dwarf mentioning it, but I had no idea how to get a hold of 241 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,040 it. So I tried different types of 242 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,640 putties and hobbies, hobby clay and stuff. 243 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,080 And I found something that they sold in the hardware store that 244 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,560 was bright, bright red. And it was used for as like, I 245 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,720 don't know, caulking, like metal pipes or something. 246 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,320 And it was poisonous. This whole house stank like, 247 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:56,520 awful. Yeah. 248 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:02,040 And I remember I, I had this, I was living in a, like a 249 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,440 student's apartment, tiny, like 13 meters square. 250 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,080 And I, I, it, it looked like shit was, you know, I, I, I 251 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:15,400 everything was like a sea of untidiness, except for this tiny 252 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,480 sculpting area where everything was like totally clean. 253 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,880 All the, all the tools I'd made were there and a big light. 254 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,560 And I was sculpting in the summer. 255 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,480 It was really hot. So all I was wearing was like a, 256 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,520 a vest with all my little tools in. 257 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,680 And I had a, a gas mask on and I had this bright red sticky sub 258 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,080 substance. And the doorbell rings and I'm 259 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,800 like, OK, I basically have three choices here. 260 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:47,560 Either I take off all the gloves and stuff and by that time 261 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,520 whoever knocked on my door has left. 262 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,400 Or I can just go out there dressed like this and scare the 263 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,160 shit out of them. Or I can lean into it and give 264 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:03,120 them an actual heart attack. So, so I I slam open the door 265 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:09,680 and I shout the doctor is in and and this little blonde girl 266 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,680 who's moving in next door to me said, oh, you're the weirdo I've 267 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:17,640 heard about. Yeah, that's me. 268 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:23,400 Mind the poison. So, yeah, so it was. 269 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,160 AI didn't make a living by sculpting integers. 270 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:28,560 Of course you couldn't in those days. 271 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,400 But I did have a bit of a stroke of luck because one another one 272 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,240 of my hobbies was that I tried to teach myself to juggle. 273 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,240 Basically what I did was I was just throwing balls up until 274 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,200 they didn't fall down again. Needless to say, that takes a 275 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,200 lot of time. And while I was doing this, the 276 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,880 door knobs again. I open it and there's an irate 277 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:55,760 French for an exchange student screaming that he's trying to 278 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:00,120 study and he's living underneath me at the balls or make me look. 279 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,040 Then he stops and says what the hell is that? 280 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:10,200 And he points out this little sculpting area I have and I show 281 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,800 him and and he turned it turns out he's really into Warhammer 282 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,720 and others mini games at the time. 283 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,680 And he he looks at and he says wow, this is actually pretty 284 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,960 good. And I was pretty shocked really. 285 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,079 I, I thought what I was doing was like a hobby and didn't have 286 00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:28,280 any legs to stand on, so to speak. 287 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,320 And he says, no, this is actually, but he knew what he 288 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,120 was talking about. He, he talked to sculptors, he 289 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:35,160 knew people in the industry. And he said, this is actually, 290 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:36,360 no, you got the proportions right. 291 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:38,280 You got the, you know, it's creative. 292 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,880 It's the, the, the scale is right. 293 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,320 You, you got the most to think. But are you by any chance 294 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,240 sculpting while looking in the mirror? 295 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,880 And I say, why do you ask? And he says, because even this 296 00:17:51,880 --> 00:18:00,320 Elvin Princess sort of looks like you and I, yes, I, I look 297 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,160 in the mirror while sculpting. That's the reason why this Alvin 298 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:08,520 Princess looks like me. That's the only reason he was 299 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,440 right. I had a mirror and I yeah, 300 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,200 Internet wasn't a big thing back then. 301 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,760 So basically you had to act out whatever you were sculpting. 302 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,760 But he sent, he bought some in his of me. 303 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:26,880 He sent them to some of his his friends and months later I got a 304 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,840 phone call from what turned out to be Target Games. 305 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,560 They made Cronopia and one more sci-fi. 306 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,000 So you're looking. Yeah, there you go. 307 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,720 And turns out they were looking for sculptures for their 308 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,360 Cronopia range, which was just taking off apparently. 309 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,920 And they the guy I talked to, I think it was from Seattle and he 310 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,880 said he they would like to meet me and if I could bring some 311 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:59,720 examples and told him, sorry, I'm full up with the there is AI 312 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,560 have a lot of exams next week and I really don't have time. 313 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:05,880 And he says, no worries, we'll send some people. 314 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,960 All you got to do is to set aside 48 hours and we'll buy 315 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:15,080 plane tickets and everything. And right enough early, bright 316 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,360 in the morning, I walked down to the parking lot and there's two 317 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:25,640 huge tattooed guys who turns out to be they, they had business 318 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:30,760 cards and that said Torpedo, which means that they beat up 319 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,920 people in order to make them pay their debts. 320 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:39,040 They, they, they're like bullseye legal, like debt 321 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,400 collectors. And somehow this Target Games 322 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,720 guy had got in touch with them and told them to to be my 323 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:51,680 minders and take me to the airport and to this convention 324 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:56,160 in Stockholm and back. And they took their job really 325 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,080 seriously. To them, I was like the VIP. 326 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:03,640 And I tried to explain to them, I'm, I'm a sweaty nerd and I, I 327 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,840 make these little tiny minis here. 328 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,360 They're like, whoa, those are so cool. 329 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,720 So I clicked immediately. It was really cool. 330 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:20,520 And yeah, so I, I ended up in in Stockholm and the I had a 331 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,080 meeting. With the the target games guys 332 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:28,520 and they looked over the stuff I had and they were very polite 333 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,120 and they told me in as nice a way as possible that I shouldn't 334 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:37,480 give up my day job. The the reason being that while 335 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:41,680 it turns out it's it's relatively easy to scope 336 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,640 something that has a certain life energy. 337 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,920 It communicates certain idea, that's fine, but sculpting 338 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,640 something that can actually survive the casting process, 339 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,640 that that takes a skill that I just didn't have. 340 00:20:56,280 --> 00:21:00,920 And yeah, so basically that was the end of that. 341 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:06,920 I left the sculpting business more or less on the shelf, got 342 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:15,840 into 3D graphics instead until a little bit on and off, but until 343 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:22,160 the the pandemic hit and everybody were locked inside due 344 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,800 to COVID. And then I took got my old white 345 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:26,960 dwarf. So look at this. 346 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,240 Maybe I should pick this up again. 347 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,600 And I thought, well, hey, that's the old Chaos Dwarfs, man. 348 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,040 Has has anything happened with, you know, Games Workshop and 349 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,600 Chaos Dwarfs since I left And I looked up and Internet I say, 350 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:46,600 OK, so Games Workshop has basically turned into, what do 351 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,320 you call this French firm that I think you're sort of a fan of 352 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:51,120 the Rackham. Rackham. 353 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:53,120 Yeah, they turned into Rackham, right? 354 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,120 They, they, they had suddenly all the games worship models had 355 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:58,520 all these, the, this movement. They, they didn't have the 356 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:03,160 static pose and they, they, they had the sculpted, like smoke and 357 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,520 other like intangibles, basically stuff that Rackham was 358 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:11,640 doing like 20 years earlier. So it's a good thing that Games 359 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:13,680 Workshop is on that. But they had more or less 360 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,160 ignored Chaos Dwarfs. The tone of Tamarkan, I don't 361 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,400 really count because their hats were too small. 362 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,080 But I figured, you know what? I'm going to sculpt my own Chaos 363 00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,280 tour for me. I'm going to do it the way that 364 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,240 I wanted. Because while I love the 365 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,640 original sculpts dearly, they are like peak aesthetic to me. 366 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:39,280 It's like, it's like Star Wars. It's like all these weird ideas, 367 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:46,520 all these random, you know, what do you call the artifacts of a 368 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,800 production process that coalesce together to make something 369 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,520 really, really unique? Right. 370 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,360 And I figured, I want to do that. 371 00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:59,640 But there are things with the original line that always 372 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,440 bothered me. Like, for instance, the, the, 373 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,480 the handguns, the, the blunderbusses of the Chaos 374 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,600 Dwarfs. They're sculpted as one solid 375 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,480 piece, right? They're not hollow. 376 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,080 You have to hollow them out and then you'll usually break them 377 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,840 off. And that is just so obviously an 378 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:19,960 artifact of the production process, right? 379 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:27,360 Same thing with the, the, the rather static two-dimensional 380 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:31,120 poses. I thought I I want to stick as 381 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,840 close as possible to the original ID of the design, but I 382 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:41,320 want to make them and if I can't 3D print them in a way that sort 383 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,400 of has more movement has more life, so to speak. 384 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,960 And so I found this chaos Dwarf online guys and that was also a 385 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,800 revelation. I thought I was the only chaos 386 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,720 dwarf fan in the world until I met those guys and it turned out 387 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,200 that I'm not really a chaos dwarf fan. 388 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,240 Those guys are crazy. They, they really love their 389 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,640 Chaos Dwarfs, but they were still full of ideas. 390 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:10,280 And for some reason, it turns out that Chaos for fans are not 391 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,560 like other Games Workshop fans, even retro Hero Hammer fans, 392 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,800 because they have a special place. 393 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,440 Their army is, has had less support from Games Workshop. 394 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,000 And so they're forced to be that little bit extra creative, 395 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,360 right? And so, yeah, so the, they more 396 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:36,320 or less bullied me into, once they saw my first sculpts, they 397 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,120 were only intended for myself, but they more or less bullied me 398 00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:43,400 into making a Patreon and putting it out there. 399 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,200 And yeah, it turned out there were Chaos Dwarf fans 400 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,160 everywhere. And after posting to Facebook 401 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:56,560 and stuff, the I now have, yeah, I think there's 150 or so 402 00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,280 patrons. And that's, that's very, very 403 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,480 encouraging. So yeah, that's basically the 404 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:09,800 the Brawniac big hat story. Well, good on you, Marco. 405 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:10,800 Yeah, it's great, man. I'm great. 406 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,960 I'm glad it's a big success for you. 407 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,800 I think you actually reached out to me just thinking about that 408 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,400 during the pandemic when we did the Hero Hammer fanzine and you 409 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,400 sent me some catalogue pages of your cast orbs and you thought, 410 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:25,760 you know, if you wanted to, you can include these and the Hero 411 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,920 Hammer fanzine. So I think that was the very 412 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,200 first time I saw your work and you, you did it beautifully. 413 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,080 You rendered all the pictures exactly like the old black and 414 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,880 white catalogue photos of the miniatures when they would ink 415 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,800 them and photograph them and put a title under them and a code 416 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,000 and everything. So you'd sort of reproduce those 417 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,880 exactly how they were historically, which is great. 418 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,200 And of course, now it's sort of blossomed into this entire range 419 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,120 of models that you said you had on Patreon that people could 420 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:00,360 access the files and download and print them out. 421 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,080 And you have various different fans all around the world that 422 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,400 you're actually going on a road trip to see some of those in the 423 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:09,400 US soon. Is that right? 424 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,240 Yeah, it's it's actually a happy, it's just a happy 425 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,400 coincidence. I'm going to Seattle for like a 426 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,400 man trip with some people I knew when I was studying. 427 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,360 And it turns out that there are lots of Chaos Dwarfs fans in the 428 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,480 Washington area. So yeah. 429 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,480 So basically I'll be take bringing like a a ton of 3D 430 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,640 printed miniatures and going on the road. 431 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:34,880 Mate, Awesome. That sounds great. 432 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,360 Yeah. Just to go back to when you were 433 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:41,120 first designing miniatures yourself, what kind of you? 434 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:43,200 You sort of. You touched on a elf Princess, 435 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,120 but what other stuff were you actually making then? 436 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,560 Let's see, I did. I made as a test range. 437 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:56,720 I made miniatures of the from the Predator movie, like all the 438 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,840 characters and stuff, and I sent those as proof of concepts to 439 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,720 Grenadier miniatures. But back in those days I didn't 440 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,600 pay attention enough to know that Grenadier had probably 441 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:14,520 already gone bankrupt by the time I said so. 442 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,640 I think I was angry for years why I never heard from them. 443 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,920 Yeah, So that was it. And, but basically I made custom 444 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,920 models for people who wanted to have, like, a special character 445 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:29,800 model. And remember back in those days, 446 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:33,560 that was sort of unique because I could copy the style. 447 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,000 Even though I had crappy materials, I could still copy 448 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,080 the style pretty closely to what Games Workshop was putting out, 449 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,320 except I added a little twist of humour. 450 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:49,560 I remember I added I made like a Blood Bowl ogre and his pose is 451 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,360 like he's he's using his finger like come here and behind his 452 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,640 his back, he holds a baseball bat with a nail in it. 453 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,480 So and the guy I sold that to you, he painted it up very, very 454 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,440 well. So I remember I was very, very 455 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,080 proud looking at that. There was this. 456 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,360 I was shocked when I realized how young the fanbase had gotten 457 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:17,680 by 199596 thereabouts. So there was this young kid, I 458 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:19,680 don't know how old he was, 12 years old. 459 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,000 And he approached me and he had saved up his like, you know, 460 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,280 allowance and stuff. And he wanted me to to sculpt a 461 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,440 an orc with an orc war boss on the on the hydra. 462 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:37,520 And that was a challenge. And it was allowed back in the 463 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,400 days in the 4th edition, right? Yeah. 464 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,200 Like, yeah, basically you could have any character riding any 465 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,160 monster. And so, yeah, so I showed up and 466 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,960 but I couldn't, I couldn't bring myself to get paid. 467 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,800 So I said, yeah, just keep it. It's fun. 468 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,000 So. So he still has an authentic 469 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,240 Bronic sculpt, hopefully. Worth a fortune. 470 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:02,560 Now that's for. Sure. 471 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,560 So did you. Did you actually change 472 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,240 materials later on? Did you actually find green 473 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,800 stuff in the end? I did. 474 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,640 I did. They started selling green stuff 475 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,480 strangely at the same time in Games Workshop stores and in the 476 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,000 local hardware store. But by that time I'd sort of, 477 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:26,640 I'd moved on into 3D graphics. And the, the thing was, I, I 478 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:31,480 also took a master's degree in, in computer science in order to 479 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,320 have something to fall back on. But I, I always kept up the 480 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:41,480 artistic side of things. And I remember going into a job 481 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,200 interview and I showed some of the fish that I'd created and 482 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,080 the, the job interview was for your job for architectural 483 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,240 previous. So I showed some photorealistic 484 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,600 manta rays and sharks and stuff that I could make. 485 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,280 And I said, that's not exactly what we're after. 486 00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,240 And I said, Oh yeah, I I've never figured out how to make 487 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,560 straight lines on the computer. Complex organic shapes, no 488 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,920 problem. But straight lives. 489 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,840 Oh, no, sorry, that's too difficult. 490 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,200 So they sent me out. I think they understood I was a 491 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:18,960 bit sarcastic, but yeah, so. But no, I never really left the 492 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,120 Warhammer thing. I always kept a little bit of a 493 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,080 tabs on it. I remember when the first 494 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:30,680 Vampire Counts book came out, I was in Mexico doing like 495 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:36,000 backpacking and travelling and I brought that as a like a think 496 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,480 something to read while waiting for the next truck or whatever. 497 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,240 And I remember going out to, to dive on this super tanker and we 498 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,520 went way too deep. And I, I got the bends and I 499 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,880 thought I was going to die. And I remember thinking, OK, if 500 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,360 I survive this, I'm going to sculpt warmer sculpts from now 501 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,160 on until I'm going to stop doing all this crazy stuff. 502 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,240 So yeah, that didn't last long. I sculpted like an attempt at 503 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,800 the the hearse type thing. You know the the. 504 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:13,040 The Black coach. Yeah, the black coach, but but 505 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,600 then I went out, started spearfishing in Kenya and stuff 506 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,120 like that. And then until the the the 507 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,040 pandemic came about, then I then I got back into it. 508 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,040 Your thoughts? Back into your sculpting chair, 509 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,240 mate. Yeah. 510 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,200 Right, So, but yeah, it's, it's weird. 511 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,960 They, as you said, it's, it's everybody has sort of the same 512 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,320 story there that the when the Kia sports first showed up, at 513 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,840 least if you were in the in the industry, it was like a brain 514 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,720 fart. It it would never amount to 515 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:45,560 anything. It wasn't interesting. 516 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:51,000 But from the standpoint of people who were in the target 517 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,720 audience, it resonates with some specific people, right? 518 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,680 Because in the fantasy genre, it's kind of weird. 519 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,520 It's called fantasy because it's basically retelling Tolkien 520 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,160 endlessly, right? And then you have something that 521 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:10,360 is actually somewhat creative, like the Scathen, for instance, 522 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,920 or, or, or the Chaos Dwarfs. And, and that's, that sparks 523 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,160 something in some people. It's, it's very, it's quite 524 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,280 inspiring. And and they latch onto this 525 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,160 tiny little bit of something new to fight their elves against. 526 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,720 I guess so. Yeah, that's a good point. 527 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:35,480 Yeah, they they did make some interesting race changes, sort 528 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,080 of branch branching out from Tolkien and making their own 529 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,440 kind of IPS. So we'll talk more about that in 530 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:42,800 just a moment. We're going to go for a very 531 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,880 quick ad break and when we come back, we're going to delve deep 532 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,200 into what you're doing now what what kind of ranges you're 533 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,640 making now for your patrons and fans out there for the Cast 534 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,800 Wharf range. So just a moment Mocha, we'll be 535 00:32:54,800 --> 00:33:01,080 back in just a second. If you are enjoying this podcast 536 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,600 and the content on the Crown of Command Games YouTube channel, 537 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,440 then please consider supporting me on Patreon. 538 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:12,520 So check out patreon.com/the Crown of Command Podcast. 539 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,400 It's interesting they brought up the what I'm doing because 540 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,640 there's, there is one thing that I probably should have mentioned 541 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:24,280 And you've seen this right, that I, I sometimes make these sort 542 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,280 of photorealistic renders of my 3D sculpts as if they're paint. 543 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,560 Yeah, they're amazing, man. Well, it's it's it's weird that 544 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,560 nobody else does that in the miniatures. 545 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:40,400 It isn't it. It's common practice in the in 546 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,600 other sort of related industries. 547 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:49,840 For instance, there's an there there, there's whole sub 548 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:56,400 industries of people making 3D prints of, for instance, animals 549 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,880 like tiny rhinoceroses and stuff like that. 550 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:05,960 And those guys regularly texture their 3D models and render them 551 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,679 as if they're painted. It's like standard practice. 552 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:16,239 But, and I, I've seen some stuff from Games Workshop where I'm 553 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,679 thinking, is this one really painted? 554 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,040 Is it heavily photoshopped or is it a 3D sculpt that they just 555 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,560 paid well? I, I think maybe, maybe it's, I, 556 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,400 I, I doubt that I've come up with something truly original 557 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,800 there. But, but it is, it has brought 558 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,679 back to me the, the, the concept of painting as meditation 559 00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:43,679 because the process is extremely similar, whether you're doing it 560 00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:48,440 using paint pots and paint and, and pencil and brushes, or 561 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,040 whether you're doing it in 3D software like Sculptress or 562 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,239 Blender. It's exactly the same thing. 563 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,720 You find, you, you, you find make an imaginary light source 564 00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:00,720 and you make the high build up the highlights and the shadows 565 00:35:00,720 --> 00:35:06,000 and you can use techniques like automatically calculating where 566 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,240 the deeper portions are and you can mask those out and so on and 567 00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:13,640 so forth. It's a lot faster than painting 568 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:19,360 it in the old fashioned way. But the and of course, you can 569 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,440 add as much detail as you like, right? 570 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,760 And if you can be as precise as you like. 571 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,560 So it's basically cheating, but it works very well for box art. 572 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,040 It does now I'm I'm constantly amazed at your your digital 573 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,520 coloured renders of your models because I saw the I think the 574 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,880 Lamassu one. I think that was the very first 575 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,000 one I saw of you, you doing on Instagram. 576 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,240 And it's like, wow, that looks amazing. 577 00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:46,280 And I thought, and it actually fooled me. 578 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,600 I thought someone actually painted it, someone painted your 579 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,160 model and you had it all done on a nice, you know, scenic board 580 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,240 and table. But then he's told no, no, it's 581 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:56,880 all done in digitally coloured and that kind of thing. 582 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,080 And you showed me on our Discord you you're doing that. 583 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,240 So yeah, I was really impressed with that, how it came out, 584 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,160 looked beautiful. And like you say, it's the 585 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,160 perfect advertisement for your miniatures. 586 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,960 This will this what it could potentially look like painted in 587 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,320 real life, you know, so and I even like I love the effect of 588 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,920 the board because you've you've actually got that granular 589 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,280 looking flock, you know, thing to the board and the the right 590 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,200 hue of green and the bases are done in goblin green bases. 591 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,200 And yeah, it's really impressive, mate, what you're 592 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,080 doing with that. It's great. 593 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,040 Thank you, I I think it's how miniatures are supposed to look. 594 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,840 They're supposed to have goblin green bases, God damn it. 595 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,800 But yeah, so anyway, what's what I'm working on now is that I'm, 596 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:47,000 I'm trying to texture and paint virtually all of my models and 597 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:52,000 then put them up and on like a, a huge poster, just like you'd 598 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,400 see in White Dwarf magazine back in the day with the like the the 599 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,120 flock table and the obviously staged. 600 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,320 But I, I want to add, go that little bit of an extra distance 601 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,760 and add some, some visual effects like the, the 602 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,600 blunderbuss is actually firing because I, I did a test of that 603 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,480 that looked beautifully in Congress. 604 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,760 You have this obviously painted miniature and you add the depth 605 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,440 of field to the, the, the virtual camera lens. 606 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,960 So it looks like a picture, like a, an actual photograph of a 607 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,080 miniature, but it's actually firing the bloody blunderbuss, 608 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:33,600 you know? Yeah, I, I really like that 609 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,120 style. I like the incongruousness, the 610 00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:39,720 the unexpectedness of it. And it seems to resonate with a 611 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:41,440 lot of people. I get a lot of likes on those. 612 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,560 Another thing that seems to resonate a lot, and that is the 613 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:54,040 addition of, of humour, right? The, when I, I sculpted this one 614 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:59,120 blunderbuss dwarf that had the misfire and his blunderbuss is 615 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,600 like exploded like Bugs Bunny banana peel gum. 616 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,160 And yeah, that was what caused the 1st. 617 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,880 That was the first time I got I think 10,000 likes or something 618 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,280 ridiculous. But it's, it's such a simple 619 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:22,200 idea, right? So now I'm making some, some 620 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,160 goblins. I obviously I know that it's 621 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,720 silly to make goblins when you're not Kev Adams, right? 622 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,400 You can never do as good a good a job as that guy. 623 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,920 But on the other hand, goblins are beautiful clay because you 624 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,760 can go as wild as you want and you can their their faces are 625 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,920 caricatures. You can do anything. 626 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:46,280 So what I'm doing is I'm trying to make like animosity markers 627 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:53,800 so that the, I sculpt like a gang fight of say goblins or 628 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,360 orcs. So the idea is that when you, 629 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,360 when you have one of the units that comes to animosity and the, 630 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,720 the, the models start to scrap with each other, you can switch 631 00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:07,880 some of the models out with these models that are actually 632 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,920 fighting each other. And then you know that these 633 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,200 are, you know, they're out of action for a while because 634 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,760 they're, they're squabbling. That's great. 635 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,600 I gotta say too. Just just touching on that now, 636 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,640 I'm not a, I'm not a big proponent for 3D sculpting as 637 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,200 you know, I'm, I'm, I like traditional sculpted miniatures, 638 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,920 but I'm constantly amazed at what obviously 3D sculpting is a 639 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,240 thing. It's a massive part of the 640 00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:32,880 industry. Now look at Kickstarter. 641 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,160 I mean everybody, every man and his dog has got a, you know, a 642 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,200 Kickstarter with 3D printed STLS on it now. 643 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,720 But the thing I like about and I buy about your work and people 644 00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,200 like Fabazzell is another person that obviously the the other big 645 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,160 bugbear in the room, because he's also doing Cast Wars as 646 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,080 well. You guys have sort of imprinted 647 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,120 your own style and like I say, you put humor in it. 648 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,760 You've got character to the models. 649 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,360 And I think that's very important because that's the 650 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:05,280 something that 3D printing sort of, well, 3D sculpting kind of 651 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:10,040 lacks for me. There's no sense of your 652 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,120 fingerprint on the miniature. There's no sense of. 653 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:15,880 Your style, I can look at your minutes and say, OK, that's 654 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,200 definitely Brawniak. I can look at somebody else and 655 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,760 think, OK, well that's that person that designers 656 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,040 miniatures. That's where you guys are sort 657 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:27,960 of separating yourself from the other guys. 658 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,120 I think for me personally, with my limited experience, but I can 659 00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,600 know that when you look at your stuff, you have a sense of 660 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,720 character, you have a sense of humour in your designs. 661 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,320 You have your own fingerprint as you like on your work. 662 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,160 And I think that's very important because it's sort of 663 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,920 it's now that it's, it's sort of narrowing the, the, the gap. 664 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,120 So, you know, before in the early days of 3D printing and, 665 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,840 and, you know, 3D modelling, there were very, this very 666 00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,880 static, very lifeless, soulless miniatures. 667 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,520 But now I think the more experience these people have in 668 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,280 doing 3D sculpting, you're you're you're giving your own 669 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,720 sort of identity to your miniatures and your own, if you 670 00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:13,920 like the way I like to call it, your own fingerprint. 671 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,680 Yeah, You. It's, I can see it's a Brawniac 672 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,800 Chaos Dwarf, not a Fabazzle 1, not someone else's, you know. 673 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:26,520 Yeah, well, in my case, I'm just lifting the humor and the, the, 674 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,160 the idea from the Perry twins and the, the original sculptures 675 00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:33,920 from the the the 80s and 90s from Games Workshop, because 676 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,960 that they, they that was the way they did it. 677 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,960 They did it. And it's the way that I'm 678 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,800 inspired to do so. Pebbles L He's doing his own 679 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,800 thing and he he wins out on a lot of even though we're we're 680 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:50,520 we were for a briefest while competitors of a sort, but it's 681 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,960 kind of hard to compete with a guy because he's so super nice. 682 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:59,760 He he has a he has a whole different approach to things 683 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,080 because his miniatures are obviously designed to be cast in 684 00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:08,560 metal, right? And that sort of that that 685 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:14,520 limits the amount of detail and overhangs and poses that you can 686 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:20,000 have but ranked up if you, if you have some fable cell, either 687 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,480 mixed unit with the old sculpts, they, they mix perfectly. 688 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,760 And yeah, so he was, he was he, he's a great guy. 689 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:32,440 And I'm sad to see that he he seems to be planning to wind 690 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,560 down. He has completed his range 691 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,080 apparently. If I can get hold of him, I want 692 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,120 him to come out of retirement so we can do a collaboration 693 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,800 because that would be awesome to have. 694 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,360 Like I thought, I thought he was going. 695 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,520 To grab him and strangle him, but he want to collaborate with 696 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:50,080 him. That's good. 697 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,120 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think when you're 698 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,160 supposed to have like a boxing match or something at some 699 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,040 stage, wasn't that something proposed? 700 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,480 Yeah, they, they, they, they, they was the on the chaos work 701 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,560 for him. They proposed scoped scoped off 702 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,520 in Italy because apparently there that's where the most 703 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,960 hardcore fans were. But they, they couldn't find the 704 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,160 venue that was suitable. The Colosseum was obviously too 705 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,920 small, so. That's funny. 706 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:19,680 Yeah, he does sound like a really nice guy. 707 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,240 He does, yeah. He does great work as well. 708 00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:24,440 I mean, he he, he's obviously the other person that I can 709 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,320 think of that does great work in this feel like, you know, like 710 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,200 yourself, like, you know, characterizing the sculpts and 711 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,360 the aesthetics to the 4th edition, you know, aesthetics. 712 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:38,600 So you guys were, you know, and I think that's why, you know, 713 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,240 one of the reasons when you come here to Japan, I would like to 714 00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:44,200 have one of the originals, one of yours and one of Faberzel's 715 00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:48,200 all together to see and to see how similar they are. 716 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,720 You can mix them all together, You know, you can have a very 717 00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:55,600 distinctively, you know, nice looking chaos door farming using 718 00:43:55,720 --> 00:44:00,280 originals and the STL resources today of you guys creating these 719 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,680 miniatures and yeah, build something really beautiful, you 720 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:05,760 know, because you've got, like I said, you've got your grand 721 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,000 skins, you've done some orks now, like black Orks, which are 722 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,320 wonderful. And yeah, it's just going to 723 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,800 grow and create this really unique line of miniatures that 724 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:18,440 are accessible for everybody, which is the most important 725 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,360 part. Absolutely. 726 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,680 I I always want people to. It's weird, I, I now have 727 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,760 collectors, there are people who are collectors of my work. 728 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:35,560 Are these people insane? It's extraordinarily flattering. 729 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:39,560 It's really humbling and it's extremely inspiring to, to have 730 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:45,160 people actually, you know, they, they, they, they take this way 731 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:46,920 more seriously than I had expected. 732 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:51,280 And it certainly pushes me to to produce the best quality that I 733 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,440 can. And so far, it seems to 734 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:56,000 resonate. Yeah. 735 00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:01,760 The, the The thing is, this is not a hill that Games Workshop 736 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:04,920 is particularly interested in occupying. 737 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:11,400 Apparently, the I'm fully aware of my role as a parasite. 738 00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:17,880 I'm copying basically the a a dead style from a company who 739 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:23,080 has moved on and totally ignored whatever bastard child the the 740 00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,200 chaos towards. We're supposed to be so. 741 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,760 But from what I've heard and what the interviews I've seen 742 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:35,280 with the Games Workshop brand managers, they they seem to be 743 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:41,200 pretty hardcore about not using. Nobody should use their 744 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,120 copyrighted designs, their, their symbols, their glyphs, 745 00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:48,480 particularly their copyrighted or trademarked names. 746 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,360 And that is absolutely fine that that's no problem at all. 747 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,520 So that's why I've had to be a little bit creative with what I 748 00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:01,480 call the miniatures. So I, I had a problem with the, 749 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,920 the, the black orcs because what do you call black orcs like 750 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:12,640 African American orcs? The the the the the what was it 751 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:19,440 11 suggestion was it was goblin X, but they so I end up with 752 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:21,360 dark works. I I think that's the most 753 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:26,720 sensitive I can be. The the Lamassu was a bit of a 754 00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:30,920 challenge. I had to ask ChatGPT and it came 755 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,600 up with the sorceress behemoth and I thought it was pretty 756 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,040 cool. Damn, I should call it that. 757 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:43,440 What did nothing like so yeah. So anyway, I, I also have an 758 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:48,560 interest in the, the fiction writing, the, the stuff of Bill 759 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:52,800 King and the, I haven't read many of the games Workshop or 760 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,480 the, the Warhammer books, but I understand that some of them 761 00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,760 like Scaven Slayer, they're, they're like, they're, they're 762 00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,240 legitimate classics of fantasy literature. 763 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:10,600 And from what I've read from the the, the army books and the the 764 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,200 White Dwarfs, some of it is quite high, high quality 765 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:16,440 actually. Particularly as I mentioned, 766 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,920 Bill King and others also have been very. 767 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:25,320 So I've made my first forays into writing fantasy and 768 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,520 Warhammer fan fiction. They have a wonderful 769 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,000 competition on the Chaos War forum that I was lucky enough to 770 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,080 win last time. A little bit of a, a plug there, 771 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:41,160 but yeah, if you bring back the Hero Hammer fans in, I have a 772 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,960 lot of stuff I would love you to read and at least consider for 773 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,000 publication there because that's it would be nice to see. 774 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:50,560 It's funny you should say that, Marco. 775 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:53,800 We hope to resurrect it in some form. 776 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,880 If it's just going to be like a thin booklet style thing that 777 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,240 you could just yeah, it's a digital product anyway. 778 00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:03,600 It's, but we're, we're we're in talks about, you know, trying to 779 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,480 get a, a small team of people together. 780 00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:07,280 Maybe you want to come and join us. 781 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,800 You know, it's, it's a collective, it's it's a 782 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:12,080 community, it's a community driven project. 783 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:17,160 I think it's a shame that we all got busy and lives changed and 784 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:23,000 it sort of got left to to sort of, you know, a work in progress 785 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,480 for later days. But I think we can sort of maybe 786 00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:30,280 with certain assets, we can sort of re, you know, bring it back 787 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,440 and resurrect it in a way that it's still accessible to people. 788 00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:37,160 Have some small articles like yourself looking at photos of 789 00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,000 your work or whatever, and other interviews with people in the 790 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,440 community and some bad reports or some scenarios. 791 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,920 So yeah, who knows? We can do something, mate 792 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,800 together, We can collaborate because that's what it is. 793 00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,080 The Hero Hammer fanzine is a collaboration with loads of 794 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,400 people. Anything you need because the 795 00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:56,080 the first issues of the OR at least the only issues that I've 796 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,800 seen, they have been super high quality and it was like going 797 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:07,520 back in time and read, except it made sense this time yeah. 798 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,800 So anything I can do to help, I'm more than happy to help. 799 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,960 And I, I, I am thinking maybe maybe that's something to 800 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,240 consider for your Patreon as well, if you, if that's possible 801 00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:23,760 to make some sort of connection there might be a good idea. 802 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:31,920 Yeah, I, I, I think that maybe should be separate because of 803 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:36,360 the, well, I mean, it's, it's an interesting point. 804 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,960 You know, you touched on IP before and how sensitive it can 805 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,160 be, you know, using certain names, certain iconography 806 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,800 styles and that kind of thing where you sort of sit within the 807 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:52,240 IP lawyers breach of IP and that kind of thing. 808 00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:54,480 So we wanted really wanted the Hero Hammer fans seem to be 809 00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,200 separate from any kind of monetization at all. 810 00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,040 But obviously it mentions the podcast, it mentions my YouTube 811 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,400 channel and links. So they will be there. 812 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,920 So I think maybe it's better just to keep it separate 813 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,680 altogether. But look in a in whatever way it 814 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,440 comes back in whatever form, I'm sure it's going to be wonderful. 815 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,080 It's going to take a lot of hard work because Ang Hill now master 816 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:20,640 genius artist, graphic designer, a painter, you know, he's just 817 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,960 the master everything Ang Hill, lovely guy, but he was kind of 818 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,600 the, you know, the conductor behind all this. 819 00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:28,800 He did everything. We just, we just supplied him 820 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,320 with photos and, you know, text and he made all these beautiful 821 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,840 pages for us. Unfortunately, his life has 822 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,800 changed for the better and he's got a great job and, you know, 823 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:42,480 he's very busy and so he just cannot commit to doing that 824 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:44,440 anymore. So we need to pick up the mantle 825 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,600 and we need to learn all the stuff. 826 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:48,680 I need to become a graphic designer. 827 00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:52,400 Please help me out. Please insert the chip in the 828 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:54,880 back of my head and just download it. 829 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,200 Yeah, there is a guy, I'm not sure I should mention his name 830 00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,000 directly here before I've asked him, but he he made, he took my 831 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:07,880 little renderings of my miniatures and he made a retro 832 00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:13,840 inspired graphic design box for them and he did it like this. 833 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,280 So I'm definitely going to mention this for him. 834 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,960 He might be. Sure, mate. 835 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:19,880 Because again, it's, it's collective. 836 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,000 It's just whoever wants to chip in, who wants to give us a hand 837 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,240 in certain things because there's certain aspects what we 838 00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:28,400 are very limited in and that is technology. 839 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,680 I'm not a, I'm not a tech savvy guy, as people would know. 840 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,320 And, but I want to learn. I want to learn. 841 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:36,920 I'm still kicking myself in the balls. 842 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:40,400 But you know, for, for dropping out of like college and not 843 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,880 pursuing being a graphic designer because it wouldn't 844 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,400 really help right now, but because that was the time of 845 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,120 technology, when technology was just coming into things then 846 00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:53,080 during that time after school. But but yeah, mate, look, we'll, 847 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,080 we'll, we'll talk about that. We'll look at people who can 848 00:51:57,240 --> 00:52:00,600 possibly assist us and, and resurrect the old Hammer Hammer 849 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,520 fanzine because I do want to see it back again. 850 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,080 Because it's, it's a labour of love and it was loved by many. 851 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,040 So yeah, the more the merrier. For sure, for sure. 852 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:12,840 All right, my friend. Well, I think we'll wrap up 853 00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:14,640 today's interview. It's been great to talk to you, 854 00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:15,760 Mark. I'm literally glad we've got to 855 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,560 get together to do this because it's been lots of stops and 856 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,080 starts and I felt I let you down last time. 857 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,680 And then yesterday, yesterday, we got the times fixed up and 858 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:27,960 everything. So I'm really glad we got this 859 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,440 time to chat and to bring your story to the Crown and Command 860 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,760 podcast for people who don't know anything about your work. 861 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,640 I'll leave links in the show notes so people can go check out 862 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,840 your Instagram, your Patreon as well. 863 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,400 And so they can and your Facebook group if you have one, 864 00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:44,240 so people can connect with your work. 865 00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:46,640 And then if they have a 3D printer, well, they're in, 866 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,440 they're in, they're in luck because they can just get you 867 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,880 STLS, print them out and start playing Cast Wolves as they 868 00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,920 should be. Wonderful indeed. 869 00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,600 And I see myself is starting to show up on Etsy as well, by 870 00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:04,880 resellers who are by all means. I should probably mention that 871 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,800 they they are, they do pay me handsomely. 872 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,480 So if you see any of my stuff on Etsy, go for it if that's your 873 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:12,480 thing. Right. 874 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:13,760 OK, mate. Well, there you go. 875 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,240 It's it's a smorgasbord of Chaos Dwarves. 876 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,600 It's a time to be alive if you're a Chaos Dwarf player. 877 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,360 Yeah, well, I look forward to you coming to Japan and us 878 00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:28,720 meeting up in person and showing, showcasing your models 879 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,280 in a special video presentation in the future. 880 00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:35,720 And until that time, mate, you take care of yourself and I'll 881 00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:37,840 see you again next time. Likewise. 882 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:39,240 Thanks a lot. Bye bye. 883 00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:40,280 Thanks, Michael. Thanks mate.