Hello, and welcome back to the Chronic Med Podcast.
Thank you so much again for downloading this episode.
And this is Josh, your host. And today we've got a flashback
from a live stream I did recently with Owen Staton.
And I thought it'd be nice to convert those live streams into
audio format for the podcast, just in case people have missed
it or they don't even know about the live streams that I've done
recently or videos is not their formative choice and a prefer to
listen to this in their car or when they do their hobby during
the week. Which is completely
understandable because a lot of content that I consume is also
audio as well. So Owen was very kind to and
generous with his time a few weeks ago to lend me about 50
minutes to have a chat with him about what he's been up to since
the last time we spoke about the new, well, I say the new old
world. It is titled the old World that
he had the essentially the 9th edition of one of fantasy
battles as he picked up the book.
I know he did about other aspects of his hobby that's been
involved with or just talking about the hobby.
So I hope you enjoy this if you did miss the live stream and
that you can enjoy what Owen brings to our conversation
today. If you would like to learn more
about or follow Owen on a more regular basis, you can of course
do that by tuning into the Time Between Times podcast or Spectre
by the Sea, which he does in collaboration with another lady,
usually talking about ghost stories and that kind of thing.
And Owen's very much into talking about folklore stories
and he does it so well. And like I said to many other
people, if you watch his YouTube channel and especially during
the pandemic, I don't think he does them live anymore.
But he would sit in a chair in his, in his gaming room and he
would just recite a story off the top of his head.
He would have no book in front of him, no script.
He would just tell that story as if he just, he'd, he'd actually
been there and seen all these wonderful and magical mystical
things. It's really incredible.
Like, just in one take. I've always been fascinated how
Owen can do that. And he's just got this masterful
skill of telling a story, but not only telling a story, but he
has the voice that lends that story so well.
And it really sets you into this, in this.
Yeah, Time Between Times, if you like, takes you to this other
place. So please go and follow him on
his podcast, Time Between Times or Spectre by the Sea and check
out the content there. He has got his website up and
running as well. And I know he does performances
live in front of a live audience.
He does direct plays. He's a very creative, artistic
person. So and yeah, so go and check him
out. That's all I can say about Owen.
He does wonderful contributions to my my YouTube channel with
the chronic event games. If you follow if or have you
been following the Tears of Aisha campaign and the advance
hear request series? I did well, that's all Owen's
voice over work. So that's where that comes from.
It's not me, it's not AI. There's a real guy, a real
talent, a real professional out there lending his time and
experience and expertise into these productions.
So I can only thank him again for all that time he's put into
it because that's a lot of hours, a lot of voice recordings
he sent to me on on upon my request and he is more than
happy to do that for me, which is amazing.
So I can't thank the man enough. So he was kind of give me 15
minutes before his son's sort of post birthday lunch with his
family. So if you do get in touch with
him online through Discord or Facebook or what have you on his
podcast, leave him a comment to say thank you, mate, for all the
all the great things you're doing out there for the
community. So, so leading into that, I hope
you guys enjoyed the interview today.
I've been busy doing my other other things here.
Obviously the podcast is kind of in a hiatus mode at the moment
because I'm trying to arrange new guests to come onto the
podcast, but we have to do that sort of later this month.
So that sort of starts again probably end of June, early July
when I've lined up a few people, I've got some interesting voices
from the war gaming community, people maybe you've never heard
of before, which is kind of my niche kind of thing.
I, I, I like to introduce sort of unknowns, people who, who
don't have a social media presence, but some do, but some
don't. And I, I really enjoy talking to
those guys because I like some of the content they make or
contributions they make to our communities.
And hopefully there'll be a constant stream of these people
coming through the Crown of Command podcast and that you
guys can enjoy as you do your hobby and get inspired to do
other projects and learn from other people from different
parts of the world. So we've got that under the boil
I've got, I've got a lot of painting to do because of
commissions I'm doing through heavy lead.
So I've got this massive chaos tour farming I'm working on at
the moment. I've got some videos in
production as well for the YouTube channel.
The third installment for Tears or Aisha is coming along with
Owen's wonderful voice work to go along with that.
And it's just getting the times right for me to sit here and and
start doing the voice over work for that.
But that's under the boil. Storm of vengeance is kind of
another thing that's sort of also getting some interest now
as we've got some new bits and pieces.
Thanks, thanks to one very generous person out there in the
United States. And he will get a different
glorious mention in the studio update for June.
So that's another video I'm working on so you can see the
projects I'm undertaking and all the wonderful models and
miniatures that I get to paint as a full time profession, which
is just amazing. I still, I'm still bowled over
by that. And also thanks to those
wonderful, generous Storm boys, some nude patrons have come in
this week, quite a new, quite a few actually, which I was quite
bowled over by. And thank you so much again for
your continued support that you value me to, to send me $3 a
month basically. That's, that's just really
awesome of you to do that. And as of that and as as of last
episode, the last podcast we did with the the law, I hope you
guys enjoyed it. It seems to have gotten some
positive reactions and feedback because I asked the guys in
Discord about it. You know, do you want me to
continue these or not? You know, or you're quite happy
to say no, Josh, just keep keep your day job, mate.
Just just just do what you do. The painting and stuff is just
fine, but it seems that people like it.
So I put a poll on Patreon to say and it's open to everybody.
Anybody can vote on it to say which army book I've chosen for
the Dwarfs, the Empire, Hiles and.
Was that it? Let's say orch and goblins.
If it hadn't, the bled out was the other choice.
And so you get to vote. Vote and see what the next one
will be. Let's see what unpronounceables
I can mispronounce and unpronounced next time, which is
a lot of fun and I love doing it for you guys.
I love doing it for my patrons and whoever listens.
Basically, I'm I'm still glad I've got listeners.
If you can hear my little son beeping and tweeting in the
background, that's because he's playing Nintendo Switch and
enjoying his Pokémon battles because I'm downstairs in the
next to my son, nursing him back to good health.
So guys, look, that's what's been happening.
I really appreciate the support, the messages, the feedback I get
for the podcast, but it's all about our guests, isn't it?
Because that's what their stories we're really looking
forward to hearing as we go through our hobby week and, and
I hope you enjoy this one with Owen.
So guys, until until then, I look forward to speaking with
you again soon on the weekend Natta and and maybe another law
deep dive into another faction in the near future.
Until then, enjoy this interview with Owen.
Owen, I've got you mate. I nailed you down.
Hello. It's hard to do, mate, it's hard
to do, but here I am. How are you?
Well, good mate. It's been so, like I said
before, it's been so long since we've actually got together.
It's just. Crazy Josh, I've missed you
terribly. I've missed you too, mate.
I missed you mate. You're you're a good friend in
in Wales. So like I've just.
I like the way my thinking. What is Josh doing and where is
Josh now? You know, what's he up to?
I really like the game of 4th edition Warhammer right now, you
know? Yeah mate, So it's.
Been waiting, it's been waiting in the wings and we've tried to
get together multiple times, but we've just been corresponding
every now and again. And of course, you're, you're
the voice behind a lot of the production here at chronic
command games, which I cannot thank you enough for, mate,
honestly, heart, you know, heart, heartfelt gratitude for
you, mate, for all the time and, and, you know, professionalism
and everything you put into the channel.
It really, because if I did it, my Aussie, you know, Crocodile
Dundee voice, it would just ruin everything.
I mean, it's bad. It's a.
Knife. It's bad enough me doing the
narration, but you know your, you know your introduction, you
know you're setting the tone, you're giving an atmosphere,
you're getting it, you know, gravitas if you like.
And it really it, your voice just fits the old world so
perfectly. So thanks again mate.
It's my pleasure, Josh. Thank you for the kind words.
I think growing up with all that text and growing up reading
those stories, for me, it's just a pleasure to read them because
they mean so much to me. Because, you know, back in the
day when I was in my teens and just getting into Warhammer,
just getting into all that stuff, I used to read those
stories that was so evocative that they just used to bring my
imagination alive. So it's a pleasure to read them,
you know, it really is. And I just wish I could devote
more time to it because I'd love to be able to spend a lot of
time reading some of those old stories because whenever I do
them for you, I just think this is great.
You know, it's absolutely, it's so epic, isn't it?
And it's so, like you say, evocative of, of, of what
Warhammer was to me, which was more than figures on the table.
It was always in my imagination. I can remember, I think we
talked about it before when I can remember my first ever game
of Warhammer and during that game and some wolf riders erode
through a river and just got out on the other side.
And I can remember having to like, you know, a part of the
movement because they were riding through the river and
this sort of stuff. But none of that mattered.
And I can still got the picture of them taking their wolves
through the water and coming up on the other side all soaking
wet and losing one or two of them to the stream.
And just that, because that's what Warhammer is to me.
It's more than just figures, you know, it's more, it's more about
the the story than anything. As we've talked about before,
Fantastic stuff. Yeah, mate, you tell a good
story because not only do you do stuff exclusively for us at the
Chronic Command, but you are a professional storyteller.
You have been for a very long time and you've now launched a
new website as well for yourself.
Yeah, the website is Welsh Storyteller.
As you know, I've had my, my, my storytelling podcast Time
between Times has been going for a couple of years now and that
just has gone from strength to strength.
And you can get that on YouTube as well.
It's smaller on YouTube, but I've, you know, it's still
growing all the time and it's just stories told in a mindful
way that people can just relax and listen to the story being
told essentially. And next week, unbelievably, is
a, is a 20 year anniversary of something that happened to me
when I worked for the police. That was quite meaningful
really. And next week I'm going to
release a podcast every day. And I'm going to hopefully do it
for the Police rehabilitation house in Trust in Flint, house
in, in Goring on Thames, where police officers who've been
through bad experiences go to rehabilitate.
And it's something that's quite close to my heart.
So I'm raising money for that next week and I'll be releasing
a story every day, Monday to Friday.
So it's going to be interesting, you know, and nice.
So good on you mate. That's wonderful because you,
you, you have a really interesting background now, of
course, I discovered you through the, the, the D6 generation
podcast time. And that was a long time ago.
That's like 15 years ago now. It was, yeah.
Unbelievably, I caught up with Russ last year in America.
Yeah. You did?
Yeah. My wife and I went to the
States, to Florida, and we met up with Russ and his wife and we
had a lovely time. And he still does that.
He still usually just sort of live streams D&D games and
things like that, but still into his gaming and still a lovely
guy. And we've, we've booked to go
again next year and we're meeting up with him again.
So I'm looking forward to that. It'll be nice.
Yeah. That's.
Amazing. That's amazing reunion.
I saw those pictures on Twitter. Or now known as X?
Or is it X, formerly known as Twitter I?
Don't know. But it's so cool to see you guys
together. I mean, I, I can't think of
anybody like a person who's so energetic and positive about the
hobby and so influential in the hobby in terms of podcasting.
I mean, it doesn't get bigger than the D6 generation with
Crown. I mean, it was massive at the
time. Yeah, it.
Was odd. Memories of that podcast.
It's it was so good. And do you know to to hear your
I think you did, I think you did some kind of story for them.
You wrote a poem or something like that?
It was, it was really odd, Josh. It was, it was at the birth of
podcasts really, wasn't it? I can just remember about that
time. I can remember I just got a dog
and for the first time and I was spending time walking my dog
outside. I discovered podcasts and there
was one called This Week in Wargaming which was by a guy
called Ken Whitehurst who I still follow and still speak to
on Twitter. And it was literally him just
saying you know what he did every week in Wargaming?
I just thought this was better than ever.
And then I discovered the D 6th generation really early on with
what they were doing. And they would do like 3 hour
shows where they would review games, They would, they would
chat, they, you know, and they had a real good sort of
chemistry between them. And they did a competition which
was all it was about. What do you call them?
Oh, what's the game? The privately oppressed game.
What is that? A war machine.
War machine. And they did a war machine
competition and they asked would you know, someone write a poem?
No, it wasn't even that. It was say, would someone do
something war machine based, and I wrote a war machine poem and I
I sort of recorded it in with much bluster, sort of almost
like a Brian Blessed sort of way and it and it won the
competition And I can I can still remember driving to work,
listening to that and being so joy be like, yes, I won.
Do you know, and more. And from that I started doing a
Word from Words from Wales segment for the D 6th
generation, which was basically me just talking about what
project I was involved in. But I always did it with like a
Welsh angle and I tried to bring as much comedy into it as I
could. And I did it for a couple of
years and yeah, it was great. It was really good to be
involved and still people remember that as well.
It's fantastic really, which which was fab, you know.
So yeah, mate, it was, yeah, it was great.
I I still have fond memories about those days.
Yeah. It's surprising you met.
You mentioned Ken as well, because I really enjoyed that
podcast. When he took it over from
somebody else, like someone else had to abandon it and he took it
over and did it for like, I don't know, a month or something
like 4 episodes, very, very brief.
And then he gave up on it. He just knew how crazy it was
the schedule of making a week in war gaming and then doing a
podcast and all this kind of segments and reviews and stuff
like that. But Ken is a guy I really
respect in the hobby too because he's a massive epic Space Marine
fan and he did the he did like an epic show with the guys on
the Maples and Miniatures podcast.
That's right. Remember those as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, there were a number I can
he tweets like infrequently, but every time he tweets, I I always
reply when's the next episode of This Week in War game again?
You know, and he always like goes no, no, there's not going
to be another one, you know that that's everything.
But yeah, if you're talking, it's got to be like 15 years ago
now, you know, like you get it where we go with this year in
war gaming. When's it come in?
You know, but yeah, if those were great days because it was
such a new thing, wasn't it? And it was very much like, you
know, do it in your own backyard type attitude, really.
And something I, I sort of kept on.
I can remember with them words from Wales.
I didn't even have a mic, you know, I was just talking into.
And I'd have introductory music and I would play the music
literally live on a, on a like a stereo next to me and then try
and fade it out, you know, to get the recording.
And that's everything. Yeah.
It was mad, really. And but yeah, there's another
guy, another Ken that I know, actually.
And he, I met him through that as well.
And then we started gaming together.
And then, yeah, you'll be amazed how many people that listened to
the D6 generation back in the day.
And it's, it's crazy really. And, and yeah, they're so nice
people. I'm still in touch with Craig as
well. And as I say, Russ, I don't see
him often, obviously, because we live on like, like ourselves, we
live on the other side of the world.
But he's been here to visit. I've been and we've met him in
the States twice I think as well.
Yeah. So we've just spent a couple of
days together and, and it's been fantastic and I'm looking
forward to doing that next year as well, which would be nice,
so. Oh, that's wonderful, mate.
Yeah, I'm glad you got, I'm glad you got to go to the US and meet
him and his wife and had a good time there.
That's great. In Florida.
So that's that's a nice reunion if anything.
So that's great. And you guys are still in
contact. I know you did.
You did an interview with him actually, and it was quite
interesting. You did like sort of a on your
channel, one of your YouTube channels?
You did, yeah. Yeah, and I like that.
It was quite, quite interesting to listen to him talk about his
history and war gaming and all that kind of thing and how the
podcast started and all that kind of stuff.
So. If anybody hasn't hasn't seen
it, I urge you to go look at it. I'll leave a link in the show
notes to go and check out Owen's channel to go and check out that
plus all your. You did a lot of Rangers of
Shatterdeep didn't you mate? You had a bit.
Of a yeah, I do. I love Rangers of Shatterdeep.
I, I love it. I, I'm, and during the pandemic
in particular, it was a great game because it's a solo game.
It's a great game to that you could do by yourself.
I collected, I've been really lucky to collect some lovely
scenery and I've got some dungeon scenery and things like
that. And I would often sort of
broadcast a live game of Rangers of Shadowy because it was a
storytelling game essentially. And it was a game that you would
just take you, you, you know, stuff through.
And although technically it was really low tech, you know, I'd
literally have my iPad looking down on the table.
But people seem to like that I've got my, my storytelling
channel, which is time between times, but I also have another
channel called Adventures at the time between times.
And in that I think, you know, there are loads of live games on
there. There's interviews with people
like yourself, people like Russ and you know, and just games
that I've played that I've tried to tell a story with as I'm
playing it. And funny enough, Rangers of
Charity but just released a new book which I'm looking forward
to picking up now in the next week or two.
Because I'd love to, excuse me, get back into playing that.
And also I played quite a lot of Silver Bayonet, which is like a
by the same author, Joseph A McCulloch.
But the Silver Bayonet is like a Napoleonic game with all
supernatural creatures in as well.
And it uses a slightly different system to Rangers, but it's a
really good system. You can play either with a
friend or on your own, which is nice as well, which is good.
So. Yeah, I think that.
I think, I think, but those solo games, those solo play through
games can be really popular during the pandemic.
And I know Rangers shadowy, I've heard a lot about.
I've seen you guys play it like I'm actually playing with you.
We did a remote game, didn't we? Yeah, we did.
Yeah, We did a few of that. We did a Christmas game and
things like that. Yeah.
They were all fun, weren't they? They were really nice.
Really good and I really enjoyed that series when you did it.
So I urge you to bring it back and please protect the dog next
time. Please protect the hound,
because every time that poor little bugger went on the on the
battlefield, it'd always cop it. It's like it's like one of those
games where you have your heroes, they're these grand guys
who have all these, you know, items and equipment and
everything. And when you roll that D20, they
roll real low. And then when the enemy come up
this like this SAP who's like the zombie or something like
that, he rolls A20 and quits somebody and and kills them.
And it was really funny. I really enjoyed those.
And you're telling the story as it goes the.
Silver bayonet you. They changed it slightly so it's
the same sort of system as Rangers, but instead of the D20
you roll 2D tens. And it makes a massive
difference because as you said, what would happen is you spend
ages thinking up this Ranger and the back story to it and all
that. And then it would literally be
like a wolf or a zombie or something like that.
Like, yeah, kind of whacking these down, you know?
And it would always characters you didn't give any thought to
would be the ones that would like end up taking it forward
either way. But the new system with the two
D 10s I think works. I don't know why, but it, it
works better it, it doesn't quite give those massive swings
that you'd have with the 1D20, you know, sort of.
But yeah, it, it works. And my friend Sid, who I play
over in the Swansea War Games Club where me and him will play
a lot of the silver bayonet, which is a nice system and good
characters. We made-up for that.
There was a guy the, the character there was Henry, Henry
Holdsworth supernatural investigator.
And I've done a series of a group as Henry Holdsworth
supernatural investigator aboard the HMS Whitby, which is a like
a cruise sort of ship And all the crew of the Whitby along
with Henry Holdsworth. And there's some good really
nice, if I say so myself, but some really nice stories have
come from from him. People like, you know, find him
quite popular. And he's one of these characters
who, frustratingly for all my opponents, he always manages to
survive. So, you know, and sort of
breakthrough and get through to the next game.
You know, even though some of the other characters have really
copped it, you know, there's a, the first mate that's got a
werewolf problem. He sort of turns into a way, you
know, he's got a no werewolf. He's been uncontrollable.
I've got like a, a Native American scout and the marines
as well and like a Rifleman and yeah, they're nice.
That's been really good as well to be able to do that, which is
good. So, So what about yourself?
What what's your, I can see you're still playing some old
Warhammer. What do you think of the old
world And that really some any thoughts on that?
That's a good question, Owen. I have nobody idea, mate.
I haven't seen anything of it. So I don't know.
I was going to ask you actually, I was going to turn the table
and say, you know, you bought because I, you know, the last
communication we had in the photos you you sent to us, I
think in our discord was where you have, you know, standing in
line waiting for the the pre-order to be released when
the doors open at the Games Workshop, whatever war hammer
world or whatever to pick up your copy.
And yeah, there's quite a lot of people, you know, obviously
picked up a lot of attention, a big reception for getting new
books. So what?
And now it's been a good month or so or more, five weeks or so
since its release. Have you got to get it on the
table at all? No, I've not.
Here it is. Here it is.
There you go. Absolutely gorgeous book.
And the the book itself. I've got the three books there.
There's the Ravening Hordes, which has got the evil armies
in. I've got the Force of the
Fantasy, which has got the good book, the the good armies in and
I've got the main book. I've not played a game
unfortunately, but what I have done is I have old time
listeners will remember the stories I used to tell of Vander
the the dwarf hero and he was the general back in my 4th
edition days, 5th edition days going into 6th edition days.
He was the general that led my dwarf army, and he was another
hero of mine. You know, throughout years and
years, we used to play these games.
And when I bought the Old World, I felt right.
Vander's coming back. Vander's coming back.
And do you think I could find the figure?
No, you know, I haven't been able to find him at all.
But Timothy from Canada, really kindly, he had a beautifully
painted version of the Vander figure, which is an old Marauder
dwarf. And he sent it to me.
And I just thought, what am I going to do here?
So I'm going to create this dwarf army in memory of Vander.
So what I did I shamedly sprayed over Timothy's lovely paint job
on. A.
Covered in Moss and that is the centrepiece for my new dwarf
army for the old world. So Vander is still there and we
honour Vander and the the dwarfs of Zafar, but at the moment he's
lost. He is currently lost and then
I'm hoping we can find him. But there he is and in the
centre of my new army. And one day when I get to play
it, he will still be at the forefront of my dwarf army.
But I've also rebased. I had a an age of Sigma beastman
army. I've rebased all them for it
because you know how much I love beast men and I've replaced all
them for the old world as well. And I'm going to be, and I've
added some new figures as well. There's a company over here
called Futsal Miniatures. Trish Morrison, who used to work
for his workshop, has done a range of monsters for them.
And this is a lovely cyclops that she's done, which I have
rebased ready for the old world as a giant.
And I've also got lovely sort of Minotaur Chieftain as well,
which I've painted as well that she's done.
So a mix of new figures, a mix of old figures and I'm hoping we
get some games in soon. But I, I think it's an age
thing, Joshua. It's the thought of when I was
playing the Silver Bayonet with Sid over in Swansea, I had
literally 6 big plastic boxes full of dungeon scenery and it
would take three or four journeys to my car to get that
onto the, you know, out to this place.
You know, I've got lazy. And you sit there and you think,
oh, I'd love a game of Warhammer, but we need to drive
over there. And you know, it's, it's all
that comes into your mind, isn't it?
And it's all it's, it's pure laziness on my behalf.
But I very recently, the other Ken that I know it's someone I
met through the D 6th generation is from a club in Bristol, which
is about 100 miles from where I am.
And a few weeks back I drove to Bristol to play the Lord of the
strategy battle game and I really enjoyed it.
So I've got I had an old Gondo army that I put together in the
in the pandemic, like a lot of. But when I came back from there,
I bought an Eisengard army. So I didn't, you know, I've
started painting those as well. So I'm hoping it's going to be
the catalyst to get me back into big army gaming because I think
since the pandemic in particular, I haven't played
many games at all. Just all those stuff and small
skirmish games and things like that.
Then I do miss, I do miss the old big game of Warhammer, you
know, I do miss it. Yeah, man, I really want to see
because I was going to ask about your basement now, because I
know you're a big basement fan and I know now Basement part of
the factions of the new old World.
Is it under Chaos under. Chaos, it's quite timely.
I had no idea this was going to happen.
I've got I've got about four Age of Sigma armies, right?
And I've paid probably three games and one of those was a
beastman army that I put together I was really happy
with. And it was all old games
Workshop figures and a few other bits and bobs.
I've got a lot of minatores here I'm looking at and things like
that. But about a month ago they
decided to basically kill be spin off in the Age of Sigma.
So that army, it was a big fuss about it, even though I think
I'm the only person I've ever met who's got AB smile, right.
And that's the reason why they've killed them off.
So quite timely. You know, one of the the army
lists in the the Raven Hordes book is the beastman in in.
So it was good to actually just rebase them back as an old world
army, an old Warhammer army. So yeah.
And they're there. So they've come full circle for
me because they were an old Warhammer army.
They became an age of Sigma army.
But now they've gone back and they're an old world army.
So I've got a, a dwarf army ready to go and I've got a
beastman army ready to go. And unless I fight them, you
know, I've got no plans. But I'd, I'd love to be able to
play a game. I'd love to be able to meet them
for someone and, and get a game on.
You know, I can give you a report of how it'll work then.
But absolutely. Yeah.
So you haven't got the books or anything, have you?
You've not looked at it. I haven't got the books.
I'm sorry. No, I haven't.
I I now there's some guys in Tokyo playing it.
They're actually playing it, but we play, I like, I personally
play Warhammer Renaissance, which is kind of like the 4th
edition and group based one in in Denmark.
And I really enjoy that so much that I and I and you know, I try
to get other people from old world to come into Renaissance
and vice versa. But they're like, well, I don't
want to learn two rule systems. I'm quite happy with.
I understand that because as we get older, if we're jumping
between systems, it's harder to keep track of what's going on,
the rules. And I, I totally get it, you
know, you know, and I think you should just stick with the game
you really love and it sort of fits within your kind of mindset
of what you think is a good game, you know, and what you're.
Yeah, I, I found that as well because there was a big 6th
edition sort of scene and I played a few.
I found it hard going back to that and all, but this, this
that was sent for me, not 6th and all that sort of confused me
in the end. As I say, I'm just about the
story we made. I'm just about getting figures
on the table and enjoying what story unfolds from that.
And that, that's the big thing for me.
I enjoyed the games we played. We played some games online, did
we? With your dwarves and, you know,
and with Marcel. I also played some of the old
Grom the Porch games and things like that and really enjoyed
those, you know, so, but, but again, it wasn't about the rules
really. It was about just playing the
game and that that that's the big thing for me, a big thing
for me. But yeah, but it's nice.
I've been done lots of projects and you mentioned to me the
Barons War, which done and I recently finished an outlaw
force for them. So I've got a an outlaw force of
maybe 30 sort of Robin Hood types which which look good.
But again, whether I'll play a game I don't know.
But yeah, I've got, I'm looking here.
I've just got literally thousands of figures, but very
few of them have actually seen the field of war, you know?
But yeah, it is what it is, isn't it?
You. Know it is what you're missus
like walk past saying why you got all these bloody figures for
what are you doing yeah that's. Right.
You can see this room I'm in now is just a mess of figures.
There must be 5000 figures at least.
You know, I've got cupboard behind me that's full of
figures. I've got figures all over in
front of you. I'll put some figures out here
that I could show you. You know, Vander, your ears so.
But yeah, but I spoke to a friend recently and I actually
said, I thought, have I outgrown this now?
Do I need all this, you know? But.
But it's a funny thing, isn't it?
Because I can remember playing the Lord of the Rings game with
Ken and just thinking, oh, I'm enjoying this.
But, you know, do I really want to do this?
And then I drove home thinking, oh, I'll get this army and I'll
get this army and I'll get this army, you know, it just doesn't
it? And he and he won't let you go.
It sort of bites you and you know, and takes you and but it's
given me so much over the years. I think that, you know, I'm
happy. I'm just looking at the stuff
behind you there on the wall, you know, and just the memories
that comes from all that is, is something that yesterday I
bought the the 500th edition of White Dwarf.
And then which has come out there is like I've not had a
chance to read it yet. But what I thought was nice was
with it comes this poster which is a poster of the Cather, which
is nice, but on the back it's got every one of the 500 white
dwarfs. Wow.
And I know you and I talked about my first white dwarf,
which is around this area. You've done it with a few
people, which is here, right? There's my white What's.
Right. I love that.
And yeah, that issue going through together was wonderful,
mate. You know, I really liked it.
Yeah, it's great when you look at that.
OK, right. And this is quite profound now
and quite sad, but there are 500 white dwarves there.
How short is life, do you know? Right.
Because I can remember these quite easily.
And we're only here, you know, that's not, that's not a lot of
months, is it really? Do you know?
And I was a young lad of like 12 years old here.
And here I am, a man of like 5051 here, do you know, And
there's a lifetime of white dwarves there.
It's mad. It's crazy, isn't it?
Like, like I say, yeah, time flies, but our hobby, it's sort
of evolving. It's changing.
We're adapting. We're, you know, we're getting
on to the new thing or we're going back like we're doing now.
We're going back into time. And nostalgia is a big thing, I
think. And like, and just to touch on
something personal for you, you know, you've been very open
about your mental health issues you've had.
And I think the hobby is a wonderful way to distract you
from all the other crap going around, You know what I mean?
Like, you know, zoning into that poning painting table, just
picking up your models and just, you know, just getting into the
world like you'd like you do. You're telling stories or just
painting models and thinking about games you're going to play
or playing the games with your friends and that kind of thing.
It's a massive positive distraction from everything.
Yeah. Oh, hugely.
And we, you know, I look at some of the figures I've got here and
you know where I was talking about Henry Holdsworth from the
Rangers, from the Silver Bayonet and some of my Rangers groups
and that. And I look at the figures and I
don't see the figure. I'd see this, I see the
adventures that guy had, you know, and, and it, and that
means a lot, doesn't it really. And that's, that's why I think
it's good to, to get this stuff and, and to be involved with it
and, and to create stories with it, because it becomes more than
just the figure. I'm not like you, you know,
you're a great figure painter. I'm not.
But I can put figures on a table, but I, it's what that
figure then becomes is, is is bigger, isn't it?
And then, and yeah, you're right, they are.
Over the years, so many times I've become distracted in a
positive way with what these little guys can do for you.
And, and that's what they do. They create worlds that you, you
know, you can go to for a short period of time and lose yourself
in. And that is so important for
anyone. And I'm sure there are many
people out there who listen to this, who will you will
sympathize with that you know, or will, you know, sort of get
the same thing for it because it allows you to focus on that one
little thing, doesn't it? And that one little thing can be
really important. And when I go back, if I could
show you what was in the cupboard there, there are so
many armies over so many years, I can usually tell at what point
in my life I was doing that. And and yeah, and and it means a
lot, all that sort of stuff. And it does, you know, and I
know you, you the same. There's so many things there
that you've got that probably different points of your life
meant different things, didn't they?
And you know, and memories and things like that, which is is so
important. But I also, but you know, you
get a lot of quite elitism where people I'm not touching the old
world, you know, I'm happy with it.
Just go with it, guys, just go with it.
You know, just play the game. It doesn't matter about which
game you play. It's all about playing the game.
It's about getting together with like minded people.
It's about creating that wonderful thing that you want to
create, doesn't it? And that's and that's so
important, I think personally. Yeah, well, it's, it's a social,
it's a social thing really for me too.
I mean, these days more than anything, I love getting
together with my friends, having a laugh.
You know, we laugh so much when we play.
And it's not so much about the rules being so correct or being,
you know, we're really stringent on the rules and who, who wins.
It doesn't really matter. We're having fun.
And I think that's the main, main objective for us getting
together. Like you say, you know, that
drive, 100 kilometre, 100 mile drive to wherever that was to
meet your friends and to play that game.
I mean, it's, it's kind of like I'm going there to play a game
to enjoy it, but I'm also going to enjoy Ken's company and we're
going to have a fun time. We're going to create memories
of this time when we play games together.
And that's the most important thing.
That's what you're doing really in it.
Absolutely. It's, it's about that.
And, you know, going back to when we we first met during the
pandemic and I started listening to the Crown command and you
kindly asked me to come on onto the show.
And, and during those times as well, this, this window was a
lifeline, wasn't it? This window into people from all
over the world who had a similar interest.
And I think, you know, we shouldn't forget that now.
We should forget, you know, we shouldn't forget that.
How important all that was and how important all that is.
And it didn't matter about the rules or the game.
All that mattered is that we were pushing, pushing the models
around the table and creating a story, really.
And then and it was wonderful, you know, the games are Hero
Crest, we played all those type of things, just good stories,
you know, and and creating those stories is so important, which
which is nice. So, yeah, along with that,
continue long with that, continue.
I hope so mate, I hope so. I hope.
I hope younger people get into it because like my, I went to
the hobby store the other day with my son to get some paints.
I needed desperately to get some stuff.
And, and at the art shop they just got a new Citadel rack.
So they've got the paints there and everything.
They've got some product there like miniatures and stuff.
My son picked up the one of the Tyranid lictors or whatever and
he's looking and he's Oh yeah, that's so cool, you know?
And I said, I said look at the price mate.
It's like 180 bucks. Wow.
And so. He was like, yeah, yeah, put it
down. We can't play some battle.
Let's go play some battle masters where you know, you
know, And I got a friend over yesterday.
He's also, he's a Japanese friend of ours.
He's a, he's the father of my friend's son.
He likes playing Nintendo games. He loves playing Nintendo, you
know, and he's interested in what I'm doing, the miniatures
and that kind of thing. And yesterday, you know, we came
out for dinner and we were planning to do something
together, but I thought, I don't know if I really want to break
at the table. Terrain, the miniatures, going
through all the rules. I think we're a strange bunch.
We're a unique bunch and we're strange, you know, I mean, to do
this for so long to enter into this kind of hobby like the old
world, you know, it's a it's a new product, right?
It's a new release. Getting into that is quite a
hurdle, isn't it? Because.
Yeah, it is. It is, yeah.
It's, it's a lifelong commitment.
We've been doing this for what, 30 odd years?
More. 3035, yeah, probably, yeah.
But that even like 30-7, something like that, yeah.
Yeah, it's crazy, mate, it's crazy.
So I just said, look, mate, let's play a card game and we
played a car game. We have, we had the best time.
We're all laughing and, and, and it was so easy to teach
everybody. Like, you know, his wife was
playing. My wife loves it.
And she's not into this whole geek culture.
She you know she'll run 7 miles away from it.
You know if she could. You.
Know she loves that game, she's competitive with it and we we
had a great time doing it and I thought yeah, I'd much rather do
this than try to, you know, breach that whole let's play
Warhammer and then go through like 5 hours of rules before he
actually rolled the first dice you know what I mean?
It's a very unique thing what we're doing but it's it's nice
that we're still doing it after all this time.
But I've got a I've got an issue not an issue, but I've got a
kind of a burning question for you, like for, you know, for
younger generations. Do you think they will embrace
mass? You know, tabletop wargaming
like Warhammer, like we did? Yeah, I think they do and I
think they are because the popularity of the games
continues to grow, doesn't it? Right.
It becomes it becomes huge, OK. And and is is, is the amount of
people who think your Games Workshop sales are going through
the roof and the games they they play are becoming so popular.
My cons not concerned, but it's like anything and with the
Internet, and I mean we could be hypocritical because here we are
on the Internet talking about the games, but I find everything
is so overanalyzed now that maybe they've lost the joy of
just simply rolling dice and and playing because IA couple of
years back I I saw a decider. I used to play competitive
Warhammer quite a lot and but I used it as a weekend to get away
with my friends and we would go and we'd go all over the
country. You know, I've been in the
states playing competitive Warhammer and but at the end of
the day, I didn't really care if I won or lost.
I just wanted a good game. But I just think these days now
it's, it's not about because, I mean, those old rule sets that
we used to play would never hold up these days because everything
is. So within moments of it being
released, there are 20 videos up saying what's wrong with it, you
know, and everyone you speak to will will, will say, what are
you running in your list? Why are you running that?
Why are you using trolls, all that sort of thing.
I'm using it because I like trolls, you know, And yeah, it's
become far more competitive. It's become far more analyzed.
It's become far more ruthless in the way that it's done.
And I just think, like with a lot of things, that it's just a
little bit too much now sometimes.
And it's like the beast men. The beast men were like taken
away from the the old, the age of Sigma and there were must
have been 100 videos of I'm in despair.
They've taken away my property, you know, my, you know, my life
was gone. And did anybody actually play
them? Because I'm sure if people did
then they would still be there, wouldn't they?
You know, it's a sales driven thing at the end of the day, but
it's just a please, guys, take a step back, you know, please
realize what it is, because that's the only thing I think
it's changed. It has changed a lot.
And then, you know, you and I are dinosaurs these days and,
and things like that. But I, I just hope that people
can still enjoy it. It seems to be far more, you
know, results driven and far more you have to play it like
this. Whereas in the past it was more
of a thing of discovery, wasn't it?
It just sort of played it really.
And, and it's not until I started playing it competitively
that I knew all the rules and probably never did anyway.
But it was just. But it was, yeah.
Now these days, it's really seriously.
And and it's become something different, hasn't it?
It's become something. It's crazy, isn't it?
There's there's like live streams on YouTube where there's
like some kind of 40K tournament, like 10th edition
tournament being played and they've just got like a fixed
camera. It's the most boringest thing
you've ever seen, the most sterile, boringest thing you've
ever seen table set up. And it's just like the streaming
text of and I think, God, does anybody watch this stuff?
Like, I know, I don't think it was ever meant to be a spectator
sport, was it? And yeah, I'd much rather see,
I'd much rather see some narrative driven game where
someone like yourself, with your, with your, with your range
of shadow Eve. I'm, I'm interested in saying
that because it's like telling a story.
I can see gameplay that, that the mechanics are important, of
course, because, you know, at the end of the day, it's like
how this game works, how things interact.
But of course, at the end of the day, you want to see some kind
of narrative driven in and. You do and you do.
And I just think you want to, you know, maybe I'm wrong and
maybe if I was actually involved in that, I realized that it
isn't all that. But I just think people are
taking it, you know, it's all Games Workshop have ruined my
life. And no, no, they haven't.
They haven't. You know, that's like, yeah.
Like I just want to step back and, and, and laugh with it,
really. And.
And don't be so, you know, in despair.
This, this is what it's always been and this is what it'll
always be, will be. And it's, you know, even chess
as a game is, is not perfect, you know, and, and none of these
games were ever meant to be foolproof games where they, they
just you've got to sometimes give a bit, you've got to
sometimes take a bit away. But, but I hope I see a lot of
younger people involved. I see a lot of people and they
obviously are because as I said, sales are, I think Games
Workshop in the pandemic was good for them, wasn't it?
It did really, really did well for them.
And, and all the best of them because I mean, they take a lot
of stick, but there aren't many people.
I know you, you worked with them years ago, but there aren't many
people who come to this hobby not through Games Workshop, you
know, and, and, and so we owe them a lot for, for that because
they brought people into the games who would never be here if
it wasn't for them. They do eventually move away,
you know. Absolutely.
You know, like I always think like, you know, Brian Ansel.
When? He started when when he took
over as CEO of Gangs Workshop, you know.
That's a massive. Undertaking, mate, that's an
enormous amount of money. You know, all the people you
hire, all the overheads, the, the, the premises, they work in,
all the materials. I mean, that's an enormous
amount of money he was putting through that company, you know,
and embracing new talent, getting people in, saying, yeah,
you know, take him under, under on his wing and, you know,
developing them and, you know, encouraging them and that kind
of thing. You know, I, I, I still think
Brian's just the the catalyst of everything that was good about
Gangus Workshop. And that sort of just blossomed
from there, obviously without his directorship.
But, you know, when Tom Kobe came in, it became more of a,
you know, commercial thing. It was very money driven.
But in that type type pressure cooker that was in that studio,
all those great minds, all that the collective was there.
It was just basically them just producing all this wonderful
stuff in a very short amount of time.
Yeah, and at the end of the day, and, you know, love it or love
it, we live in a capitalist society and and it's about
making money because if you don't make the money, you can't
employ those people and you can't develop stuff.
And and yet, you know, even as a young boy, I can, you know, you
were saying the other day you were you with your son and you
were looking at the price of the turning models.
And, but you can compare that to when we were young, it would,
you know, the prices were different, but they were still
really expensive, weren't they? You know, and I can remember, I
can remember my parents at the time going, you're not having 5
lbs to buy that. And I'm like, OK, I can remember
I went to London on a school trip, right?
And my mother gave me 10 lbs to go on the school trip to London.
And I snuck off and I went to the Games Workshop shop in
Hamilton, right? Pound of that 10 LB on two boxes
of harbours, Black Mountain Boys, OK.
And, and I came home, my mother was going, I'd never have given
you a tenner if I knew you would, a nine gallon on that,
you know. So I was like starving to death,
you know? But I'd rather put it back in
the fingers. It only is like a bad like a
£2.00 of chips and you're right mate, you know I.
Mean exactly, you know, yeah, it's always been the same.
And yeah. And it's, I think there's far
worse hobbies to get into, isn't there?
And there's far, you know, like, has your son got an interest in
it? Is is he sort of keen on it or?
Yeah, it's funny because like, he's he's, he knows what it is.
He knows it's Papas miniatures, Papas stuff.
You know, I think he I what now he's now almost 8 years old.
I think I bought for it, Yeah. I mean, I think when I bought it
for him, I think he was only about 5.
So he's probably a bit too young to really to get into it because
he's, you know, obviously his attention is always, you know,
to the next thing, you know, he's always watching TV or
playing his Switch or whatever. But I think next time when his
other friend comes over and his father comes over, I'm going to
put it on the I'm going to play it out for all of us, us four to
play together and be like, you know, your father son team, you
know, against the other father son team.
And I would appreciate it more. I think he's getting older
enough now to really realize, OK, this is an actual game.
It's like the video game, but it, you know, in a physical
form. And I think he'd really like
this. He loves rolling dice and he
loves rolling dice. You know, I think he always like
doing that. And so yeah, I think slowly but
surely, and I think like with your kids too, they're they're
seeing you around the hobby your whole life, you know, your own
hobby room that you're sitting in.
And I'm just saying. So they're going to grow up with
that. You know, they're always going
to know about little miniatures, little figures and all that kind
of stuff, terrain, Papa Maid and that kind of thing, the games he
played. So it's going to be an inherent
in their lives, you know, later on.
So that's nice, I think. Yeah, it is.
It is. And at the end of the day, the
hobby has given me so much, you know, that we've talked about
that and it's just, it's given me the impetus to story tell.
I think being a dungeon master in early DM games, you know,
early Dungeon Dragons games made me the storyteller I am because,
you know, I was never one for the rules.
I can remember having the old red box and I would literally
have to make stories up on the fly.
And that is, you know, it's made me who I am, really.
It's probably one of the most influential things ever in my
life because I used to, I started up making up stories and
that's what I still do, you know?
So it's yeah. And war game as well, because
it's all. That's always been the purpose
of what? Who are these figures?
You know, who are these characters?
Who are these heroes and what are their purpose?
And that is. And the battle on the table is
not about the moving the figures.
It's about the bat that's going on in my head, I suppose, you
know, and that I I see the game we played.
I mean, you playing a game about a dwarf, dwarves versus goblins
game, I think it was. And I can still picture in the
head, in my head, the dwarves are on a hill.
It was a last stand. I managed to get, you know,
really lucky role. And you know, the bad guys are
like tumbling on the hill. The dwarves are charging after
them. And it's just, it's like reading
those, you know, The Lord of the Rings for the first time, or the
Fighting Fantasy game books and all that sort of stuff, which is
such a nostalgia, isn't it, you know?
So I love it. Yeah, it was great.
I I still remember that game 'cause I think it was this, I
think it was against Scaven or something if.
I it was just even against war. Yeah, yeah, I think I charged
uphill thinking I got this guy, I've got the, I've got this
guy's. No problem.
You know, these dwarf across women or whatever they were and
you beat me and I started running away.
You caught up and killed them all.
It was amazing. One of those are you wouldn't
bet, you wouldn't bet on them. You wouldn't bet on, you know.
No, you never bet on it, but that's what can happen, isn't
it? Sometimes I love that, but those
are the things that people remember, isn't it?
Years later you remember that, you know you 9 times.
You know the sort of games you play where you know the normal
things happening. You don't remember it, but it's
just you remember those of those brief moments.
And I think that that's worth it.
You know, I guess I remember things that happened in games I
played thirty years ago. And, you know, I think the hobby
gives you that And and that's at the end of the day, that's what
it's all about. I mean, the stuff on the wall
behind you there. I mean, when we look at those
figures now compared to the figures they do these days,
they're quite basic. They're quite, you know, old
style. But it's it's what they gave you
isn't at the time. I know you, I know you hate
lizard men, but you've got a lizard man sort of box set
behind you there, isn't it? When they came out, it was like,
wow. Doing the body thing in a
minute. If it if it's up there.
No, it's not there. I know.
That's that's the 5th edition box set.
Yeah, unfortunately. Now this is my, this is my, this
is my if you like, how should I say it?
It's in my defense or this is my, if I'm going to be like in
a, in a, an attorney in, in a courtroom.
And. And say that because, because my
friend, when he started playing Lisbon, he said they're the good
guys. And I said, you got to be
kidding. They they can't be the good guys
are the bad guys. He said, no, they're the good
guys. I said, really?
He said, yeah, in the law, they're the good guys.
I said, okay, well, they're they're they're basically
they're a slave race under the slam, right under control of the
slam. Now every single box and you can
you can be testament to this own because every single boxer they
ever released for Warhammer, there's always a good faction
and a bad faction wasn't. It you were.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. High elves, goblins, dwarves,
Cavan high elves, Cavan empire orcs.
And then 5th edition was Britannian which you can't get
more goody goody 2 shoes and Britannians against those
horrible yellow bellied sluts called the slam so I mean.
I also like in the background, we lived on the other side of
the world as well, having a fight, you know?
Yeah, so that's that's my defense.
That's my evil, evil bastards of the old world.
I got a 5th edition Lizardman army, as you know, and I, you
know, I always like, I like dinosaurs and they they were
always like the closest thing to dinosaurs for me.
So which is? Nice.
Oh, that's good. I, I, I can see, I can see the
popularity, especially with like Jurassic Park.
I mean, you know, people who are really into that kind of stuff,
they would love that. And I've got to say the Stegadon
was a great model. The Stegadon was an excellent
model. I love seeing that huge big pile
of lead on the tabletop. It's awesome, Yeah, and all the
you. Know I've got one of them, yeah.
Yeah, I think it's a really impressive figure for for like
production wise, you know, actually people bought it.
It's amazing. I mean, it must have cost like
£50 back in the day. It must have been, really.
Yeah, I know. Yeah.
But that's a that's a chunk of metal, you know?
Yeah, I've got some of the newer lizard men here, the the sort of
the age of Sigma ones. You know, it's still nice
figures. You know, it's a great little,
but they're dinosaurs riding dinosaurs and you can't get any
better than that. You know I've.
Got. I've got some new, new new age
of Sigma stuff I'm painting out now for a Commission.
Yeah, which? Is totally.
These drakes. Oh, fantastic.
Yeah. But they're pretty cool models,
you know, I don't mind doing that because that's something
different. I know I, I would never do that
otherwise. So it's just something nice to
to work on and that kind of thing.
But I find it and the new figures they are, they're so
complex and they are so beautiful that unless you're a
good, a really good painter, it's hard to make them look
good. Do you know what I mean?
Like for for someone like me who's very much like a couple of
bass players, and then wash, wash, cover the sins with wash,
you know, right? Yeah, I can get a.
Name. I do need the monsters, the
beast man and the lizard man and things because for someone like
me, they're easier to do. But these days the figures are
so, so detailed, aren't they? That must be great for Someone
Like You because you can, you know, you can spend the time on
them and make them really pop. But for me that's it's hard
work. It is hard work.
Yeah, it is. It's it's a massive difference,
but from from when it was back in the earlier days to now.
And I always thought about, you know, how people get into the
hobby and they first, you know, presented with this, you know,
sprue with all these parts and having to put it together and
then having to paint it. Yeah, it's quite, quite a high
skill level nowadays for. Yeah, it's it's intimidating as
well, isn't it, when you just see those springs?
No, it it, it's quite intimidating, you know, you.
Let's come. Up get me to paint for you.
That's it. You know, that's all you need to
be LED studios mate. Yeah, I will.
Yeah, I'd love that. Yeah.
Yeah, I do. In fact, I've got to be watches.
I'll send you here now as well. You know, I've got, I've got,
I've. Got a miniature here for you
man. I've got a miniature.
I think it's either sitting up here or one of my cases just for
you. It's a dark age Welsh commander
dude from Futsal Miniatures. So that's still present and I've
got another one also that's like a perfect full range of shadowy
like just like the best model for it.
So those two will be coming to Wales sometime?
Later I love that and I'll I'll I'll definitely make a video
about them yeah and a story I. Definitely want to see, I
definitely want to see you do the range of shadowy please, if
you have time, if you want to do it, if the incentive's there,
please start doing that again. I really enjoyed those videos
and I I think other people really enjoy those too.
So if you do have the time and your and your wife gives you
time to sit out there in the where, where do you sit out
there? Again, it's like.
It's perimetry on the back of my my house.
That was the idea as well. In the winter it's freezing in
there and it's hot in there. So I had to choose my days, you
know, to do it as well. So but yeah, I'll, I'll do that
for you. I'm obviously that there's a
Shadow Deep game coming up all. Right, love that.
That'd be great. Now I know you're very busy
today because I know you're celebrating or post celebrating
your son's birthday and you're getting family together and you
need to come pick someone up. So Owen, look, mate, thank you
so much again for taking this time to come and speak to me
especially. I feel very honored that you're
doing that for us. And again, for everybody's going
to listen to the stream again, please go and check out Owen's
channels. They'll be in the show note
description here for his YouTube channels.
And of course, time, time between times the podcast, go
and check that as well. And I'll leave all links there
in the show description so you can check those out and check
out Owen's awesome content. Lovely.
Lovely to see you again, Josh. It's been too long.
We'll have to. We'll talk again soon.
Absolutely, my friend. OK, you take care and I'll see
you again soon, OK mate? Take care, buddy.
Bye bye. Thank you.
Bye bye.