1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,200 Thank you very much again for tuning into the Chronicle in 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,640 podcast and wishing you all a very happy 2024. 3 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:16,160 And today we have a very special guest which is Paul Hicks and 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:18,680 he's a miniature designer, a very good one. 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,240 In fact. I've just purchased some of the 6 00:00:21,240 --> 00:00:25,240 models from Futsal Miniatures to get them in my in my hands to 7 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:27,640 paint them. I've been dreaming and and just 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,160 just being so obsessed with these miniatures since I've seen 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,000 them from the Barons War range that I had to have them. 10 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,960 So that's my Christmas gift to myself is I don't often buy 11 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,800 miniatures myself to be honest. So it'd been really, really nice 12 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:46,840 to find this particular range of historical miniatures that 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,880 Paul's going to talk to me about that and plus his his foray into 14 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:53,600 Games Workshop at a very young age. 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,040 So hope you enjoyed this interview guys, and let's go on 16 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,840 with it. OK, mate. 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,040 So well, yeah, thank you again for taking the time to come to 18 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,440 speak with me and the audience here at the Chronic command And 19 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:13,160 but now I've, I've, I've got to know about you through your work 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,800 and of course you're a traditional sculptor, sculptor 21 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:18,080 and a miniature designer, which is fantastic. 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:22,320 And I got to listen to an interview with you I think was 23 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:24,280 with Boris from. That's right. 24 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,360 Yeah. We are Mouth Studios and they're 25 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,760 a new upcoming YouTube channel talking about the Barons war and 26 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,840 the system that you work with Andy Hobday in creating the 27 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,800 miniature for, which is proudly displayed behind me because I 28 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,960 absolutely love the the out out Rimmer. 29 00:01:39,960 --> 00:01:42,120 I'm probably not pronouncing that it's a French word, I'm 30 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:43,920 I'm, I'm butchering it completely. 31 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,040 But it sounds beautiful when a French person says it. 32 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,320 But you know or three Emma, maybe with three Emma, with 33 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:51,320 three Emma. There you go. 34 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,080 And I love the, I love the miniatures you designed for 35 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,240 that. So I thought I'd and I heard 36 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:58,560 that you work for games workshops. 37 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,840 I thought man we can tie those in together and talk about your 38 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,400 history with Games Workshop. You know your current work now 39 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,400 as a as a miniature designer and how that all worked in together 40 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,919 and and all that as well. So for people who don't know who 41 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,560 you are, could you please let us know? 42 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,160 Give us an introduction. Well, my name's Paul Hicks. 43 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,160 I've been a miniature traditional miniature sculptor. 44 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,600 Now think you need to define that this day and age for 45 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:30,720 professionally. For just over 20 years I've 46 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:37,960 always pretty much worked in in the gaming industry, from being 47 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:42,360 a part timer when I was 16 all the way through to now really 48 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,840 with a short interlude working for a wood floor, wood floor 49 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,280 company as a salesman. Right. 50 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,080 So you you started, so you started like basically at 16 51 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,120 works in a part timer as Games Workshop, is that right? 52 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:02,000 Yeah, back in well at first. My first time was when I was 14. 53 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:07,680 I was worked at the GW at the Games Workshop in Darling Rd. 54 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:13,120 Hammersmith when I was 14 as a work experience, and then when I 55 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:22,160 was 16 that was 92 I went. I became a part timer and then I 56 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:28,440 worked at GW in Plaza for a long time and then had a bit of time 57 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:36,480 out to go do my college work. And in 95, When I was 19, I 58 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:41,680 started full time at Games Workshop Harrow and then from 59 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,760 there till 2000 I worked for a Games Workshop in the retail 60 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,080 department. OK, all happy days working for 61 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,000 GW then. Well, I think, well, you're a 62 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,800 veteran aren't you? Yeah. 63 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:02,160 Well, The thing is I was, I was always about making figures and 64 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,000 and stuff like that. I was never really into the 65 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:12,200 suppose I I prefer to sit down and and paint as opposed to play 66 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,040 intro games. Yeah. 67 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:19,440 So I'm I mean I, you know I did it but it wasn't you know my 68 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,640 excite you know wasn't the thing I I really wanted to do. 69 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:28,000 I really want to sit down paint toy soldiers and and convert 70 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:28,960 miniatures. Really. 71 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:31,040 Me too. That's why. 72 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:32,720 I think that's why they got rid of me out of the Plaza. 73 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:33,960 They sent me to send me to Luton. 74 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,880 Oh, well, there you go. That's yeah, Well I wondered, 75 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,880 was looting like the some of the stores I worked at which was 76 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:46,360 Hammers, Richmond and Kensington, that you've got no 77 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:52,440 one injured in the day so just spent the time making my own, my 78 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,720 own figures. And that's pretty much why I 79 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:00,600 sort of learnt sculpt really just converting miniatures and 80 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:07,680 and while no one ever came into the shop and instead of making 81 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,280 stuff for the store, I just kind of sneakily made stuff for 82 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:15,800 myself instead. Yeah, I'm sure I wasn't alone at 83 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,600 at sort of taking that liberty of working at Games Workshop. 84 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:21,400 Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 85 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:22,760 I think, Luton, you could get away with that. 86 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,000 I would. I would just sit there all day 87 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:25,720 and paint because no one would come in. 88 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:29,520 Especially weak, you know. Yeah, I mean they're big days 89 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,080 where you only make like 16 lbs for the whole day. 90 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,200 And if you, you know, if you weren't making stuff for 91 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,960 yourself, I mean it was pretty much, you know, you would go 92 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:45,000 completely crazy. And it was like that weird 93 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,200 thing. You weren't allowed to make 94 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,160 stuff for yourself. But if you did, you kind of 95 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,320 started selling it because you were more infused about it than 96 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,400 or I was more infused about it than the the next release that 97 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,960 Games Workshop were, you know, going to put out. 98 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:06,240 So OK, yeah, in a way it helped helped me sell stuff, but I'm 99 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,360 not sure if it helped sell the things that Games Workshop 100 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,640 wanted to sell at the time. And Mike, how was how were you 101 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,960 introduced to the like hobby, either through miniatures or 102 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,240 tabletop war gaming? Was it like a friend or family 103 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,560 member that got you into it, or was it just like just a random 104 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,360 walk into a GW one day? Well, I was always into making 105 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,000 models. I mean my mom and dad from a 106 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,360 very early age. I mean one of my earliest 107 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,800 memories was was being told to sort of stay away from the loft 108 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,720 hatch while my dad built some model railway. 109 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,600 I must have been about two and it was it was something my mum 110 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:52,120 and dad did. My mum's quite a good artist and 111 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,920 so they always sort of got me into drawing. 112 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,320 I think it's more drawing with something so my mum could watch 113 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:02,320 the Aussie soap Sullivans during the day. 114 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:08,600 So I was being able to be pretty occupied while she, you know, 115 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:14,480 could watch telly basically. And then making models with my 116 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,000 dad's and then just making stuff. 117 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:25,440 And then I was, I think it's when I went to high school for 118 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:29,120 the and then there was a kid there with a magazine called 119 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:33,560 White Dwarf and I'd never seen it before and it just, well, I 120 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,840 heard of Games Workshop figures because there was a model shop 121 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:42,120 that had the little blister packs and you could like it was 122 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,920 just before, just after they started to move from the solid 123 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,800 base to slaughter and you got about 5 figures in a blister 124 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,680 pack for about pounds then. And they always intrigued me. 125 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:00,280 They looked fun, but it was the paints never seem to adhere. 126 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,800 I'd never didn't have any idea of you know, how to paint them 127 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:09,600 but they they looked cool. So and then when I went to high 128 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,880 school then I sort of got introduced to white dwarf. 129 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,080 I think the first white dwarf I ever saw is when they released 130 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,880 the new. Well, what was new then, But the 131 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:26,160 first line of Terminators, that that big flat sort of pizza box 132 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,720 of Terminators. And then, yeah, I was kind of 133 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,559 hooked. And it was the Hammersmith store 134 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,919 was only one stop away from my on the tube from my school. 135 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,120 So after school I would go get on the tube, bunk on the tube 136 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,480 because there was no one at the the ticket office. 137 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,400 So I would sort of sneak, yeah, bunk. 138 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,200 And then I had a return ticket, so it was no problem at the 139 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,800 other end. And then to spend the time at 140 00:08:56,200 --> 00:09:00,200 Games Workshop instead of doing homework based today. 141 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:05,360 Excellent. And yeah, from there, sort of. 142 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,320 But I've never, I've never really been a big gamer. 143 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,400 It's always the miniatures that sort of got to me and the idea 144 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,040 of collecting and sort of painting them that was more that 145 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,600 I was into as opposed to the actual gaming itself. 146 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,920 Wonderful. So so you you built models with 147 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,640 your father at home and then you you you got your your first gig 148 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,320 and work experience at Games Workshop. 149 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,800 Did you have any sort of like modeling mentors that people 150 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,040 used to look up to, or people guided you with your sculpting? 151 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:44,560 Well there was the first, the first sort of person I was 152 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:50,240 really inspired by was a there's an American figure sculpt. 153 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:53,720 Well, he converts mostly and it's all historical stuff. 154 00:09:53,720 --> 00:10:00,320 This guy called Bill Horan and he it's all 54 millimetre and he 155 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:05,000 did a siege of Gander Mark Diorama that was in military 156 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,160 modelling about the same time I got my first white dwarf. 157 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:14,680 And that's what sort of got me from wanting to make or just 158 00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:18,760 have standard like the Itamia figures and maybe convert them. 159 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,840 So that was the first guy was just like this is amazing, you 160 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,800 know, it's sort of I've always with my modelling, I've never 161 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,680 been. When I've seen a kit I've, I've 162 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:34,480 never wanted that. I've just wanted to make it 163 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:38,360 slightly different and especially with figures. 164 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,680 So I've always been sort of cutting stuff up. 165 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:46,360 And then when I did my work experience there was a guy, what 166 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:52,960 I still see now is Jim Coburn and he sat me down and he showed 167 00:10:52,960 --> 00:11:00,040 me how to paint properly and also he was massively into 168 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,880 conversions and stuff. So he was sort of just showing 169 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,280 me that I could cut bits up and then and make like more 170 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,840 interesting figures. But, but basically trying to 171 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,200 keep them, you know, the silhouette and stuff like, you 172 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,280 know, to make them look coherent as opposed to just the massive 173 00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:21,880 figures all thrown together. So I would actually say that 174 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:28,680 sort of Jim was the guy that sort of started me off on my my 175 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:31,760 GW collects you know collecting days. 176 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,760 So he, yeah, I owe him a massive debt which I do tell him most of 177 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:37,400 the time when I see him once a year. 178 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:38,040 Oh, that's. Good. 179 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,680 That's nice you still you kept you kept in contact with him. 180 00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:42,080 That's great. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. 181 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,720 He's a lovely guy. What what particular races were 182 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,920 you particularly interested in when you worked against worship? 183 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:49,040 What? What kind of things really 184 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:54,800 fascinated you at that time? I think the first things I got 185 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:00,880 was undead, because they did that amazing army box, which was 186 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:02,800 the Undead army, which was 10 lbs. 187 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,400 And I can remember going to the Games Workshop in Harrow. 188 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:14,520 I must have been about 1415 and buying that set because it came 189 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:21,480 with, is it like a chariot, some horsemen and stacks and stacks 190 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:29,120 of skeletons. So First off it was the undead, 191 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:39,880 and then the 1st Army I properly collected was think an Auckland 192 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:45,440 goblin army when I started to sort of be a part timer and 193 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:46,960 started to work for Games Workshop. 194 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,640 But I've always tended to to float towards the more human 195 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:57,320 races because at that time you had the Britannians that were 196 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:05,280 pretty much the old sort of citadel historical stuff, and 197 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:10,600 then the Empire, which was the the army I actually pretty much 198 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,480 collected and painted religiously just because they 199 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,760 were more sort of historically. I've always gone for the more 200 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,560 historically accurate stuff. The some of the weirdest stuff 201 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:27,880 didn't really do it for me because in in essence I'm more 202 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,560 of a historical gamer than or have interests. 203 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,600 If if fantasy elements don't ring true for me, it doesn't 204 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:41,680 really work. So yeah, The Empire was 205 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:44,760 definitely, and especially anything that Perry's created, I 206 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,680 was kind of into because I thought they had the the most, 207 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:56,920 most realistic style. But I also really, really loved 208 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,720 anything that Jess Goodwin did. But I think that was more his 209 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:08,800 concept work, because I've always been interested. 210 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,720 I mean, my my original job that I wanted to do was to make to 211 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,440 work in the film industry and like model making and stuff like 212 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:20,560 that. And then I ended up doing the 213 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,360 wrong course. At college, I was told that 214 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,000 media studies would be where I needed to go as opposed to doing 215 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:33,440 something in art. So I'd lost interest and then 216 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,440 was making models as opposed to doing homework and stuff like 217 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:37,800 that. We're doing coursework. 218 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:44,560 So anything when you look at any sort of making of book or any 219 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,200 art book, it's just full of concepts and those are the ones, 220 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,360 It's always the ones that never made it to film that I'm more 221 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,840 interested in and the ones that actually made it onto film. 222 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,400 So those early Jess Goodwin concepts as like Space Marines 223 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,440 where you see the exploded view and all the alternatives and 224 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,560 nine times out of 10 none of those made them. 225 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,680 I think one that really one of those those concepts were in 226 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,600 when they were thinking of doing Battlefield Gothic for the first 227 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,560 time and they had all the Jess Goodwin's concepts for the the 228 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,680 Imperial Navy. The never ever saw the light of 229 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,200 day until Kill Team. I think those are the ones that 230 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,800 really sparked my imagination. Interesting. 231 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,520 OK. And you just put in context your 232 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,920 the timeline when you started working Games Workshop. 233 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,000 We're talking at like early 90s. Yeah, yeah, early 90s. 234 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:48,560 So yeah, I was working part time at the The Plaza store when the 235 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,760 first box Warhammer came out. So you're the plastic orcs and 236 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,080 goblins and also the was I working there? 237 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,840 I think I was part time when the bot the first Box 40K came out 238 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,520 as well. OK, so this is 4th edition 239 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,600 fantasy and 2nd edition 40K, yeah? 240 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:11,000 That's right. Yes. 241 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,800 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I was, yeah, I was 242 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:21,000 managing Richmond, I think when third edition 40K came out with 243 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,320 the Black Templars. Yeah, I think so. 244 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,280 Those, those were kind of game changers, but they were very 245 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:33,200 much a the court, you know, selling the core games, you 246 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:39,480 know, it was absolutely, yeah. I think the Monopost kind of 247 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,160 could never get with the Monopost look or was more 248 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,960 interested in sort of those those fantastic pictures in 249 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,120 these sorts, the 3rd edition book, those massed armies that 250 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:57,800 people would put together near the back, the massive games, 251 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,720 those are the ones that really interested me. 252 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,920 Yes I I can understand. I think it was a big transition 253 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,520 from 3rd to 4th and it left some people back in the back in 3rd 254 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:12,280 and not wanting to progress to the to the 4th edition and it it 255 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,720 it then it you know GW exploded then and it just went global. 256 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,200 And you know, many people, many young people got involved with 257 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,920 tabletop war gaming and found miniatures and miniature 258 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,319 painting and it went on from there to be a great success, of 259 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:28,600 course. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. 260 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,600 Well it needed to happen for it to grow. 261 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,080 But yeah, I'm I'm somebody who fears change. 262 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,040 So anything like that I always like, you know if you look at 263 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,920 old pictures, I kind of want to see see that you know what an 264 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,280 Old Town would look like as opposed to what it looks like 265 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:49,120 now. So any I'm I'm one for nostalgia 266 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:54,480 that I should have known nostalgia for for a time that I 267 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,680 didn't even live in, you know, I have a yearning to see what 268 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,680 that's like as opposed to to what what things look like now. 269 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,280 Sure, that's fair enough. And we talked before before we 270 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,720 came to the interview we you said you worked at the Plaza 271 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,000 store, which I actually worked at as well and I think we may 272 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,920 have a mutual friend in. Greg, is it Greg Stevenson? 273 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:16,880 Greg Stevens, Yes. Yeah. 274 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:26,240 Greg Stevens, Yeah. And yeah, he yeah, I'm well when 275 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,000 I was, yeah, because I first worked out. 276 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:35,520 I think I turned up the GW Plaza on my last day of school, so I 277 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,080 just finished GCSEs and we could go. 278 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,840 So I just went up there and it was on a Friday and then because 279 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:49,720 of Greg and his sidekick at the time. 280 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,440 Sheep. Sheep. 281 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,440 Yeah, yeah, I know him too. Yeah. 282 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,200 Yeah. I ended up in the Astoria rock 283 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:05,360 night and, yeah, at 16 and didn't really know what what the 284 00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:06,800 hell was going on. Yeah. 285 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,240 Yeah. And Marcus Blackman as well was 286 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:11,440 there. Oh. 287 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:13,280 Great. Yeah, my long friend. 288 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,440 Yeah, that's wonderful. Yeah, yeah, He was there at the 289 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,320 time. Yeah, a guy called Lawrence 290 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:23,520 Widdecombe that I was. Yeah, he was being a long term 291 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,600 friend. Not a long time friend that I 292 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,800 still see every now and again. Yeah, I made some very good 293 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:34,440 friends while I worked there. Lawrence, I think that's a name 294 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:39,160 that now I remember, I met him a couple of times. 295 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:40,880 He sounds like you sound like quite a character. 296 00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,120 And I remember him being on a diet of Guinness beer. 297 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,440 Yeah, like weeks and weeks on end. 298 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,160 He wanted to lose weight or something like that. 299 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,720 And I I think from memory that he was just on this diet of 300 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:56,440 Guinness beer and nothing else. No solids, just Guinness did the 301 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,320 job, I think. Sounds like Lawrence, yeah. 302 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:01,640 Yeah, a great bunch. Of guards. 303 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,080 Working there at that time, yeah. 304 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:09,080 He ended up the like most well, like you said, working at Luton. 305 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,720 I think he lived in Hammersmith but had to manage the Games 306 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:20,760 Workshop in the Watford, you know, So it was all, yeah, so my 307 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:25,160 first manager job was in Sutton, but I lived in West London, so 308 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,400 that was like a two hour track there and a two hour track back. 309 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,400 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they never really took 310 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,200 into consideration where you lived as whether your nearest 311 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,120 store was. So you just did it for the love 312 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:39,040 of the hobby, You know what I mean? 313 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,200 You're just. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 314 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,200 It was your. Eating of reading, living off 315 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:43,360 the hobby kind of thing, you know? 316 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,840 Yeah. So they certainly, yeah, took 317 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,320 advantage of you there. But yeah, it was quite a good 318 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,160 experience and I'm sure you had a wonderful time and, you know, 319 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,680 shared experience of working at Games Workshop, meeting the 320 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,640 people. And I suppose the people for me 321 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,160 was the biggest thing. Like I took away from working at 322 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,760 Games Workshop, met so many great characters, so many people 323 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,960 that I really, you know, I felt I've made many friends in 324 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,920 England, in London at that time, because it's just, they're just 325 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,520 genuinely nice people, you know? Did you go, what was the pub? 326 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,120 It's the one bite of his store that the Astoria, was it the 327 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:19,080 jaw? No. 328 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,200 I'll. Tell you I'll tell you the story 329 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,440 because you know sheep, he was his last day. 330 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,040 He was he was leaving this leaving gangs workshop and I 331 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,080 don't. I think he went on to doing 332 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,640 something with agriculture or. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 333 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:33,560 That's. Right, whatever. 334 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,200 And I'll never forget this day. We went to the pub across the 335 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,160 road there from the Plaza. The Holy Rood. 336 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:42,840 Maybe I can't remember the name of the name of it now, mate, but 337 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,240 we all sat there on a big table outside. 338 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,520 It might have been in the summer because it probably obviously 339 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,320 wasn't that cold then. But we'll sit there having a 340 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,840 beer and I think I think sheep had some miniatures on the table 341 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,640 top on the on the table there looking at them and this guy 342 00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:01,360 came out and he's holding a he was holding a pint glass and I 343 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,680 could tell he's pretty he was pretty pissed by this time and 344 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:08,320 he just came up to our table and he just he started looking at 345 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,560 sheep and saying I'm going to kill you. 346 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,360 I'm going to kill you. And like he just he just stood 347 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:14,840 there and started screaming at him. 348 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,760 I don't he'd never met him before I think and his his mate 349 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,160 came out and tried to pull him back say hey mate come on let's 350 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,360 go let's go. And then he. 351 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:26,280 And then he, he smashed the pint glass right next to me and just 352 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,120 broke it in his hand. Like his hand was bleeding and 353 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:30,080 that kind of thing. Like he was going to stab him 354 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,360 and kill him. And then the manager came out 355 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,600 and the bouncers came out and grabbed him and threw him down 356 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,720 the street. I never forget that day because 357 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,840 it was so intense. I've never been in a situation 358 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,160 like that before in my life. This guy just came out of 359 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:45,400 nowhere. Just what, kill sheep, I don't 360 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,360 know why. And we're just standing there 361 00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,320 just totally, you know, amazed and astonished at what was 362 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,880 happening. And then, yeah, he got thrown 363 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,720 down the street and that was the end of that. 364 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,480 So it was a very it was that was my last time meeting sheep, 365 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,960 basically. Yeah, I I think the last time I 366 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:04,960 met him was when he was the manager at Harrow Well, but that 367 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:09,040 was about last time I met him. But yeah, he was a character. 368 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,560 And then, yeah, though he and Greg were pretty inseparable, 369 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:18,320 weren't they? And also Greg was, well, 370 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,320 probably still, well, I'm sure he is. 371 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,680 And you don't normally shrink, but he was huge as well, weren't 372 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,320 he? He was quite an imposing 373 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,680 character. He's very tall, lanky, long 374 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:32,240 blonde hair. Yeah, you know, he had, he had a 375 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,840 very good impression with the ladies every everywhere we went. 376 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,680 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Bills would love him, you know, 377 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,640 he's just, he just had that character. 378 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,680 He had this very, yeah, kind of very charismatic personality 379 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,920 about him, I think, and people just really took to him really 380 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,360 well. Yeah, well, especially it was 381 00:23:47,360 --> 00:23:48,880 sort of the height of guns and roses. 382 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,560 So he was. He was leaning on the Axel Rose. 383 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,160 Yeah, exactly. Well, Axel Rose, mate. 384 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:54,680 Yeah, exactly. He just needed a bandana. 385 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,240 He'd be right, you know, So, and we're talking about the age 386 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,200 where everyone had long hair. You know, all the guys had long 387 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,200 hair in the store. And you know, I started growing 388 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,280 up as well because it was just a thing to do back then. 389 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,160 You know, this is like early 90s when Metallica and all that kind 390 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,080 of stuff was, you know, going around all the heavy metal bands 391 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,120 and stuff like that, but. We didn't have to wear, we 392 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:24,960 didn't have to wear GW stuff working in the stores. 393 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,920 And it was when I think we had a manager, Ed Specki who was good 394 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:35,640 friends with Greg and Sheep and he was the manager and it we all 395 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,760 decided we were going to wear combats and Games Workshop, 396 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,200 right, like the T-shirts they would sell. 397 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,080 So to give the sort of the store a bit more of a a look. 398 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,920 So I think we would like the only store that would do that 399 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,280 and then then the red shirts came in. 400 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,040 But I think that was, yeah, that was, yeah, I think it was. 401 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,160 I'm sure that was his initiative to do that. 402 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,800 Yeah. I think we kind of had the the 403 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,840 feeling we were better than other stores, but things we 404 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,120 never really mixed with other stores in the in and around the 405 00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:14,680 area. Yeah, we weren't there. 406 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,360 Wasn't like I think later on when I worked for GW there was a 407 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:24,960 bit more of a a sort of a social social side to working between 408 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,640 the the areas. But not then if you ever saw an 409 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,640 area manager that was, you know, out of the blue type thing, 410 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:38,600 yeah, it was very, yeah. Talking about it now, it was 411 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:43,480 great fun, yeah, but it was like had to be that £2.00 an hour. 412 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,400 Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, it didn't. 413 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:53,960 I think it just about covered my travel to get up there. 414 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,040 I. Was going to say, yeah, you 415 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:56,720 wouldn't. You wouldn't be living, living 416 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,920 it up on a GW salary anytime soon, that's for sure. 417 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,240 I think by the time you say like, paid your rent, you paid 418 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,360 your travel costs, you paid for the food you ate every day and 419 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:08,600 that kind of thing, There wasn't much left and changed, just 420 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,280 enough to get your 50% discount on your GW figures if you wanted 421 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:13,160 them. Kind of thing, you know. 422 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:19,680 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah, we definitely did it for 423 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,920 the love of it as opposed to the work. 424 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,760 I mean, I've burnt, burnt through money that was given to 425 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:29,520 me to sort of go up there as opposed to actually working. 426 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go. 427 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,440 I hardly ever had to buy my own pints. 428 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,600 That was nice. Yeah, that was a funny thing 429 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,560 actually, because every time at the pub is like, OK, you know, 430 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,240 there's five of us. And I wasn't a big beer drink. 431 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,360 I wasn't. I didn't really drink alcohol at 432 00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:47,080 all. But those guys really, you know, 433 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,680 you know, and they would drink, They drank pints, one of the 434 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,360 most of the worst Australian beer you could ever think of, 435 00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:56,120 which was called Fosters, which no one in Australia ever drank. 436 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,640 But apparently it was just really popular in the UK. 437 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,720 It was like the cheapest beer you could get, probably. 438 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,360 But every time we rocked up there, it'd be like five guys 439 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:06,680 and the first guy I'd have to buy the whole entire round. 440 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:10,160 So by the time you left, you'd drink 5 pints, They were 441 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,200 complete, skin full, and you'd have to get back home. 442 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,600 And I think some of those, some of those times I was, you know, 443 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,960 I just didn't know how I got back home, basically. 444 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:18,920 Yeah. Yeah. 445 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,160 Yeah, that sounds one of the funniest memories. 446 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,840 What was that pub called? It was rounds. 447 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:32,000 So we went up to Tottenham Court Road and turned right at the 448 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,160 station on the other side of the road of the Plaza. 449 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,800 Turn right. And then it was right again 450 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,720 where the old Astoria used to be. 451 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,600 It's all been knocked down now, no? 452 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:45,880 It's always snow. Is it OK? 453 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,400 It's boy knocked down. It's been knocked. 454 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,160 Down. Yeah, they they. 455 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,440 I completely knocked it all down to the bigger station and I sat 456 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,200 there just thinking normally I had to sort of go, and it was 457 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,080 probably probably talking to a girl or something. 458 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,000 And there's Punk came out of the pub because it was a metal pub, 459 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,000 and then just walked along, turned his head and the stream 460 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,880 of vomit had come all the way out and it was like a perfect 461 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,320 rainbow arc of just beer and awfulness. 462 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,040 And then just turns didn't even wipe his mouth or anything and 463 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,520 just carried on walking. It was like the most elegant, 464 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,880 disgusting thing you've ever seen in your life. 465 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,640 It wasn't Kev Adams, was it? No, no, this, no. 466 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,280 But it was an archetype. We had like a massive Mohawk, so 467 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,520 everything works. Yeah. 468 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,240 It was like the most punk thing ever, yeah. 469 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:45,560 Wonderful. Yeah. 470 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,000 We're going to go for a quick break and when we come back, we 471 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,800 can start talking about your career in miniature designing 472 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,080 and how you got to become established as a sculptor for 473 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,560 great companies like Footsaw in particular. 474 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,400 So we'll be back in just a minute, Paul. 475 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:15,720 OK, no problem. But yeah, let's talk about your 476 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,600 work with Futsal, because that's how I discovered you with your 477 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,840 Barons War range, which was highlighted on Tabletop, which 478 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,040 is a YouTube channel that Jerry and the other guys run. 479 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,560 And they sort of showcase lots of wonderful projects coming out 480 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,920 from game developers out there. And I thought, looked at these 481 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,920 and I thought, wow, because I'm, you know, for me personally, I'm 482 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,320 not a historical buff. I'm not into historical gaming. 483 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,040 I found it very boring early on in my younger years and it it 484 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,960 wasn't much an attractive to me. But when I saw the Baron's War 485 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,760 stuff and other things relate like you know test of honor and 486 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,160 that kind of thing, you know, the presentation was very good. 487 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,120 The miniature range was very nicely done. 488 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,280 The the miniature painting was very high standard. 489 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,680 It's sort of it's come up in levels. 490 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:07,320 I think to we're a point where, you know, that's competing with 491 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,720 the other fantasy game Rangers out there. 492 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:15,000 I think you know what I mean. Yeah, my my interest in war 493 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,360 gaming has always been mass battles. 494 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,920 I've always liked those big direct diorama displays, that 495 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,840 sort of museums and stuff. So I'm I'm very much of the the 496 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:34,920 big, big scale stuff, but I not have the patience to paint 497 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,000 hundreds of figures. But I like those are the things 498 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,280 I like seeing. But also I love skirmish gaming 499 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,000 with more time than was one of my favorite games. 500 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,960 I think everyone's favorite game, but coming back to sort of 501 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:57,600 how I got into into sculpting. So when I worked at GW there, 502 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,400 like I said before, you know, when people weren't coming into 503 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:06,160 the store, I sort of would be making my own stuff. 504 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:14,760 And then I collected an Empire Army and I had a gaming friend, 505 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,760 a guy called Andy Sherwell. I started with this Empire army, 506 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:26,240 which was in White Dwarf. I'll send you some pictures and 507 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,800 I was starting to make things like a Knights Panther musician 508 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:38,720 or musician for other units or a standard bearer for my 509 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,760 flatulence and things like that and converted my own elect count 510 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,600 in general. I you know you couldn't get so 511 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,840 but it will be basically cut one figure in half and then put 512 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,760 another you know onto another figure. 513 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,560 And me and Andy Cher, while we used to, we'd game a lot. 514 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,000 We had our own gaming club and then he he bought a company 515 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,480 called Grip and Beast which is a miniatures company. 516 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,000 And he knew that me and another guy who worked for Game Switch 517 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,560 at the time, Andy Dormer, were were into sort of converting 518 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,240 figures. So he asked us to do some small 519 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,640 bits for him. And for about a couple of years 520 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,560 I've been making the odd little figure for them, mostly 521 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:34,760 converting figures, miniatures they haven't got in their range 522 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:42,840 that they needed. And then I back in 2002, so I'd 523 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,880 left Games Workshop at that time and I was working as in a wood 524 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:51,360 flooring company as a sales assistant, which was like high 525 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,160 ends at the bottom of the I was at the bottom of the ladder. 526 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:01,880 I was a shopper boy, basically, but I was earning top GW manager 527 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,000 wage. You're right, right. 528 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,560 Yeah. Yeah, While I was doing that, I 529 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,720 was sort of doing more historical stuff. 530 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,680 We were really into Warhammer Ancient Battles. 531 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,800 Oh, right. So that was a real, you know, we 532 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:23,040 could get our historical fix and also our Warhammer fix at the 533 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,440 same time. So we were big into that. 534 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,680 So I started doing a few conversions and then a company 535 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,040 called, what was it? Backloners. 536 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:42,360 Yeah, backloners in Evesham. They used to import stuff from 537 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:47,440 America and they asked if I would make they were looking for 538 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,560 sculptors to do a range of early First World War figures and that 539 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,880 that's a period that really interested me. 540 00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:00,840 And so they they asked me and and the Dormer if we would do a 541 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,880 test figure for them and they were happy with them and that 542 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:10,000 was my first range. But it meant I could sort of 543 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,239 leave my job and then and do sculpt full time. 544 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:22,880 And the I went to my dad's, I can remember quite vividly 545 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:28,800 because me and my fiance, now my wife, went to my dad. 546 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,440 We went round to see my dad before we were going out for the 547 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,600 night. And I said, look, this 548 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,520 opportunity's come up and he just sort of turned around and 549 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,360 said, well, he might as well take it, you know, is is it 550 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,360 something you want to do? And I was like, yeah, it's 551 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,440 something I would like to do. And he said, well, there's not, 552 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,760 you're not really ever going to get a chance to do something 553 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,280 that you ever want to do. So why not? 554 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,560 And I was like, yeah, that's great. 555 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:57,920 So I went on to do that and then sort of by it was the day after 556 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,640 I went, went out for a night out with friends and then funny 557 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,600 enough, met. It was a great night because we, 558 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,160 I found out I was going to be a sculpt for the first time 559 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,400 professionally, went to a nightclub, met our best friends 560 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,360 at this nightclub that night. Yeah. 561 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,880 So it was sort of a perfect evening. 562 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,080 Next day was salute, went to salute and then the next day, 563 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:26,240 you know, that Monday I was, I was a figure sculptor. 564 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,600 Then the world sort of came to realise that actually you need 565 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,720 to sort of knuckle down and this might be a lot more harder work 566 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:39,080 than you expected it to be. Yeah, and I did that for a 567 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:46,480 couple of years. Started to make be interested in 568 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:50,400 we, our gaming club. We used to play a version of 569 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,920 Warhammer 40,000 called Warhammer 44. 570 00:35:54,720 --> 00:36:01,680 It would be Second World War armies as opposed to 40K. 571 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,680 And there was the odd figure that wasn't available. 572 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,120 So I would. I think I made like a German 573 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:16,480 medic and other figures and a friend of the gripping beast, a 574 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,360 guy called Simon Bargery went, oh you know, have you thought 575 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,360 about making these for yourself? And I was like, well, no, not 576 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,720 well, I would like to, it'd be quite nice, but I haven't really 577 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:32,040 given it much thought. And he said, well look, I'll put 578 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:37,840 in 500 lbs of my own money and you give £500 worth of sculpts 579 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,760 and we'll start, you know, see how it goes. 580 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,840 And then from there we started a company called Bolt Action 581 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,040 Miniatures, which has kind of gone on to two Warlord games, 582 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:54,280 some quite good business. And then from there I had some 583 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,960 distribution with a company called Brigade Games that I 584 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:02,960 still work for in the States and it's word of mouth through 585 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:08,120 companies. A company, one of the biggest, 586 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:13,000 my J Games, is one of my biggest customers and Empress miniatures 587 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,880 over here in Oxford. They got sort of know and then 588 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,400 built up relationships with companies. 589 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:26,080 And then Andy Hobday of Futsal Miniatures I knew as one of my 590 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:31,840 shop managers when I went back to the Plaza in 97, got in 591 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:35,160 contact. It's about doing some work and 592 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,800 the rest is history when it comes to Futsal. 593 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,560 It's incredible how many connections you can draw back to 594 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,160 Games Workshop from the people in the industry now, isn't it? 595 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,880 Oh, massive, Absolutely massive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 596 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:56,000 It's got all that, you know, all over the world. 597 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,640 You can you find someone that's you've probably not 6°, more 598 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:06,880 like 2° of separation from and it worked or has been at the the 599 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:11,120 Plaza store at some point. Yeah, it's incredible. 600 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,040 Yeah. It's wonderful. 601 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,520 Yeah, that's great because you know, like Test of Honor, 602 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:19,280 they're great for now games. Graham Davey, he's XGW. 603 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,280 He's actually GW staff, like the studio staff, White or vanity 604 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,120 team, you know. So yeah, you can always go back, 605 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,640 you know, Warlord Games, XGW, you know, John Stallard and crew 606 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:31,920 and that kind of thing. Oh yeah, I work. 607 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,880 Yeah. Well, one of my I did. 608 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,880 Some of their first figures were mine, sort of the the metal 609 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,640 figures to go with their romance. 610 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:48,440 And then so we built up over a period of time, about five 611 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:49,800 years. We built up old action 612 00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,560 miniatures, me and Simon, and then it got too big for us 613 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,800 because we were taking it to shows. 614 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,960 It was just in Simon's garage. He was in Portsmouth, I was in 615 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:07,920 London and then Warlord Games offered us some money that we we 616 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,280 couldn't you know say no to and that's that's how Bolt Action 617 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,240 miniature started with Warlord Games. 618 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,840 Yeah. Yeah, it's always been, yeah. 619 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,840 It's always come through for me, sculpting, which has been good, 620 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:25,200 yeah. That's good to hear, Paul. 621 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:26,920 That's nice man. It's it's great that you can 622 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:31,200 make your you know, your love of you know doing something 623 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,840 something very creative and now it's become your full time you 624 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,520 know career for the last 20 years and it looks like in 625 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,880 genuine for you know as long as possible which is great. 626 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:42,640 Well, hopefully. Yeah. 627 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:44,560 Very high in demand mate. Every, every, you know, you seem 628 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,240 to be very very highly in demand and I think futsal miniatures 629 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:50,480 are under a really good thing here with Baron's War and you 630 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,760 know the different ranges they'll produce in the future 631 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,720 and different historical periods and and what have you now. 632 00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:03,440 You did talk about a World War 2 theme Kickstarter that will be 633 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,640 coming out in the future and I saw some miniatures of that, 634 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,560 which, you know, I'm not a World War Two guy, but wow, I saw 635 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,000 those miniatures. I was really amazed how good 636 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,600 they were. Like the character of those, I 637 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:17,200 think no paratroopers, paratroopers and. 638 00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,360 Yeah. So it's it's with one of my long 639 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,080 standing companies, Empress companies that I've worked for 640 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,040 which is Empress Miniatures right? 641 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,400 And I did, I did British paratroopers. 642 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,880 I think they weren't like the best figures I'd done for when I 643 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,760 owned Bolt Action Miniatures. Some of them are still available 644 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:43,280 through Warlord games. I was so pleased with those. 645 00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:48,160 But looking now I'd you know the I'm a bit better, bit better at 646 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:55,520 sculpting and Empress asked me to do some what the Second World 647 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:59,000 War figures for them. So I've done some Volks 648 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,280 Grenadier which are for the Germans which are like not the 649 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:08,120 best level of troops at very end end of the war for for the 650 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:14,480 Germans, some Americans for the battle of the Bulge and some 651 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:19,240 British again the same sort of period so winter and we wanted 652 00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:26,440 to do a Kickstarter and we our first thoughts were Soviets for 653 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:31,480 as a Kickstarter. But then Putin had just made 654 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,680 that sort of not flavour of the months so we we thought about 655 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,000 what what could we do and British paratroopers have been 656 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:45,600 sort of really they're a very popular force to play in games 657 00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:51,160 like chain of Command by the the two Fat Ladis and Bolt action. 658 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,120 So they're they're quite well catered for, but we wanted 659 00:41:55,120 --> 00:42:00,160 something that people that would already have British 660 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:07,680 paratroopers would want and it was doing the Market Garden, 661 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,920 which is a bridge too far if you've seen the film and we 662 00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,760 wanted. We didn't want to depict them as 663 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,120 they just landed, which most Rangers do. 664 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:21,080 We wanted to depict them 2-3 days in where they've dropped 665 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,560 all their kit, their kits worn, some of them are wounded, 666 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,360 there's lots of famous characters to to portray as well 667 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:36,400 and I think that that sparked quite a lot of a lot of 668 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,920 imagination and it it's done really well. 669 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:44,240 So we're really pleased with how that's going and in fact I'm 670 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,600 busily sculpting the next next phase for that at the moment, 671 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:54,280 along with a project for Andy and myself which is is going to 672 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,720 be some fantasy figures. Yes, that's a great segue 673 00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:02,320 because I I saw on Facebook there is a Hobday and Hicks page 674 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,760 which is dedicated to this fantasy rage that you are 675 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:11,600 producing for for for Andy and. Oh no, it's for me and Andy. 676 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:12,960 Oh. Just for you and Andy, right? 677 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,400 It's just. Yeah, yeah, this is. 678 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,400 I'm dipping my toe back into the miniature's realm again. 679 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:25,160 So this is, this is for myself and Andy, Yeah, it's really 680 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,880 exciting. So I mean, I might have said 681 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,280 earlier I'm more of a historical gamer as opposed to a fantasy. 682 00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:37,400 But we found that a lot of people were using our Barrens 683 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,520 war figures, especially the lightly armoureds like the 684 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:45,920 Pilgrims or the the Peasants figures that we've done in 685 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:51,000 fantasy settings. And we thought, well, it would 686 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:56,080 be great to sort of do a line of figures inspired by, you know, 687 00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:01,800 fantasy, but very much inspired by sort of the Dark Age feel. 688 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,240 So we're that's what we're embarking on. 689 00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:07,080 That's what Hobday and Hicks is all about. 690 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,320 Yeah, that's really nice looking minutes is on there and I want 691 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,600 to give you a shout out to HVM Workbench because the person 692 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,760 responsible for painting and and especially the photography, the 693 00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,360 atmosphere, this person to capture in these pictures. 694 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:25,640 I mean for Baron's Ward, the that's, that's all beyond it 695 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,320 because you know, you have beautiful looking miniatures. 696 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,400 But unless they're painted perfect or beautiful beautifully 697 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,800 and they're presented in a way that captures the atmosphere of 698 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,160 what you're selling, it's a it's a big contributor to, you know, 699 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,960 getting people to cross that line and say, yeah, I really 700 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,520 want to get those miniatures just to paint or want them for 701 00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,480 the game or whatever. It he's I mean we've worked from 702 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:52,840 him with him I think from the the first, the first we've done 703 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:59,040 4 Barrens War kick starters now and they've I think he worked 704 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:04,400 with us on the first one I think but definitely from the 2nd 705 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:11,800 onwards is his work is is is being invaluable to the to the 706 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:18,120 actual kick start of progress so we're we're very fortunate to be 707 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,400 able to work with them. Yeah, I know it's been 708 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,200 fantastic. I I've, I actually ordered my 709 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,880 miniatures yesterday. I can't wait to get them and 710 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,160 because you know, they're all your sculpts of course. 711 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:33,480 But you know just just going by the promo stuff on Futsal's 712 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:36,920 website, I was completely sold. I I've been dreaming about these 713 00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:38,480 miniatures. Like I'm just saying I need to 714 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,480 get these because they're so beautiful. 715 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,120 I just, I've never been attracted to any historical 716 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,680 stuff before in my life, but this whole package has just sold 717 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:49,720 me on it completely about the Crusades and and all that kind 718 00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:53,040 of stuff. Even the the, the Islamic 719 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,720 forces, they're painted so well. I mean, they're designed so 720 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,800 well, but they're painted so beautifully that I'm just like, 721 00:45:58,800 --> 00:45:59,920 yeah, this is what I really want to do. 722 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:02,400 I really want to get the same sort of style and the way he's 723 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,800 painting them and the detail and the Shields and all the the 724 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,120 fabric, you know, detail work he's doing on those. 725 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,600 Yeah, it really sold me completely on that. 726 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,720 Oh, that's that's fantastic to hear. 727 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,040 Well, hopefully the miniatures live up to your expectations. 728 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:21,600 No mate, they look really cool. I really, really love them, 729 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,040 honestly. So yeah, I really hope to. 730 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,880 When I when I get them, I'll do a video like an unboxing kind of 731 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,640 thing and showing the models, how they, how they develop 732 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,480 delivered to me and how they how they look out of the blister or 733 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,040 packaging and that kind of thing. 734 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,520 So I can see the the casting, you know and the level of detail 735 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,800 in the models. Because yeah, I think you guys 736 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,960 do a fantastic range of miniatures and it's just getting 737 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,720 that more exposure. So hopefully through the Crown 738 00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,320 of Command we can help do that for you guys and get more people 739 00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,720 either picking up the miniatures for various different systems 740 00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:00,800 they're playing. If it's not Baron's Wall, you 741 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,840 can use it for various other different game systems. 742 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,120 Yeah I mean there's there's no. I mean because of it when we did 743 00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,000 our first Kickstarter we didn't actually have a rule set. 744 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:15,120 I mean that came with the 2nd Kickstarter Barrens War the you 745 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,120 know, it's it's snowballing. That's been the beauty with it 746 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:23,000 is that we've been able to build a a community along with it. 747 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:30,880 And I always I'm not. That's why I get my enthusiasm 748 00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,960 for because I don't literally have about six or seven painted 749 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,080 miniatures in my house. Enjoyment has always been 750 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:45,120 building or sculpting figures. So when I go and see people or 751 00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,920 when I see people's work that they've they've spent their time 752 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,800 painting or collecting stuff that I've made. 753 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,360 That's where I get my enthusiasm from. 754 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,040 And to see, you know the the Barrens wore like the Facebook 755 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,920 page and people's work. It's the thing that really, you 756 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:11,160 know, that gets me fired up. I mean I've I've got more 757 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:15,920 painted Spitfires in my in my workshop for making model kits 758 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,600 and I have painted figures. That's not that I don't, you 759 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:23,520 know, I have. I love going to shows and seeing 760 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:28,280 and massive displays and games on people's work. 761 00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:33,680 But yeah, it's always been this part of the hobby is the bit 762 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:38,160 that's always interested me, as opposed to sort of the painting. 763 00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,080 But I could never use. Well, it's part apart from the 764 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,560 time when I used to be able to nick an hour's worth of 765 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,640 sculpting when no one came into the store. 766 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:51,240 You know, that was something that was pretty frowned on when 767 00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:55,160 I worked at GW. So now I'm getting to live my my 768 00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,800 dream basically, which is great. Yeah mate, Yeah, I'm really 769 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:00,920 happy for you, Paul. That's great, mate. 770 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,680 That's awesome. And long may that continue. 771 00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,320 You know hope. So otherwise we'll be out on our 772 00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,600 air. But you always seem to be in 773 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,560 demand and that's that's the good thing about it. 774 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,040 And I think you know, with your partnership with these various 775 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,560 different companies that Rangers grow and then, you know, 776 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,120 different periods get talked about and that kind of thing. 777 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,160 And I just want to express too that like I said and I think 778 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,000 many people know who know me, I'm not, I'm not a historical 779 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:29,520 gamer. I've never, never been one. 780 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,160 I've tried Warhammer Ancients and I dabbled with that with my 781 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:38,240 naked Germans and it was interesting, but you know, it 782 00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:42,600 wasn't really my thing. But but with this, with the 783 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,360 Barons war stuff, it actually got me interested in learning 784 00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,960 about the history. So I started tracking down some 785 00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:52,520 PDFs on the Templars and the Templars, I should say, and the 786 00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,960 Crusades, and learning about the various different sects and 787 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,640 factions and all that kind of stuff. 788 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,040 And that's never happened before. 789 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,360 And Testafana did the same thing to me as well, because I live in 790 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:03,800 Japan. I'm, you know, I'm interested in 791 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,840 Samurai, the Sengoku period and that kind of thing, so. 792 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,560 Just so that I know I can kind of get in the atmosphere. 793 00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:17,680 So I've been some of these elves have been not so much watching 794 00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,560 anything fancy but sort of dipping my toe into YouTube and 795 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:28,000 people's sort of fantasy collections or you know, sort of 796 00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:33,720 anything to do with special effects for fantasy films or 797 00:50:33,720 --> 00:50:37,720 anything like that. But I'll need to, I'll need to 798 00:50:37,720 --> 00:50:40,680 sort of immerse myself in the period or definitely 799 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,920 documentaries on YouTube on the period. 800 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:47,680 And I'll obviously that'll be feeding itself in and getting 801 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,960 the creative juices going. But it's if you've got a range 802 00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:54,640 of miniatures, if it's a fantasy range, you know you'll be 803 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,400 attracted by the range and then you'll read about the law. 804 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:03,080 So you're just in effect reading the law about the the Barons 805 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,200 War, aren't you? At the moment that's you're just 806 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,880 immersing yourself in in the period. 807 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:10,560 I think. I think it attracts me because 808 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,800 there's there's a certain level of mystique behind it. 809 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:17,640 And World War 2 is just too close to home because my my 810 00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,800 grandparents lived through the Second World War in the 811 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,280 Netherlands under the occupation of the of the Germans. 812 00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:28,200 And certain flashbacks they had, you know, even when I was you 813 00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,960 know 20 odd or something like that, they had there were 814 00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:35,760 certain incidences where, you know, they wouldn't talk about 815 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:39,400 the war. And you know, I remember my 816 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:44,080 grandmother sitting with me in in in the room one day and the 817 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:49,360 the one of the military, like the RAF flew over a house really 818 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,760 quite low and she just bolted up, you know, like just out of 819 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,760 shock and you know, terrified, thinking the Germans because it 820 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,720 just brought back all these memories of, you know. 821 00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,720 Yeah, I can understand that. So yeah. 822 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:08,760 I mean coming from the uki mean like my grandfather in Italy and 823 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,720 we have a completely different experience because we weren't 824 00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:14,600 occupied. So I think it sits in a 825 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,080 different mindset with us, to the point where I think my 826 00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:22,080 grandfather went to war to escape his home life as opposed. 827 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,840 I think there's a good reason my dad was an only child. 828 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,480 But I think, yeah, it's a different experience for us as 829 00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,000 opposed to, you know, people that lived under the occupation. 830 00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,960 And things like war films have captured my imagination. 831 00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:49,560 And some of the stories that my grandfather told me when I was a 832 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,680 boy, I mean, a lot of them now, if you sort of did read between 833 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,200 the lines, must have been absolutely horrific. 834 00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,600 Yeah, well, must have been. They were absolutely horrific. 835 00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:04,320 But it was all exciting at the time. 836 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,080 Yeah, of course. Yeah, that's right. 837 00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:08,040 Yeah. Yeah. 838 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,680 And capture the imagination. Yeah, that's wonderful, man. 839 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,440 That's great. Well, look, but honestly, thank 840 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:20,040 you very much again for today. I, I, I wish you for 2024, mate 841 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:23,760 in your Kickstarter or sculpting endeavours with various 842 00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,600 companies you're working with. We will stay tuned to see what 843 00:53:27,720 --> 00:53:29,760 they're all about. I'll leave some links in the 844 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,520 show notes for this video and the podcast so that people can 845 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,520 go to those Facebook groups so they can keep in touch with all 846 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,440 the updates of things coming out. 847 00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,000 Yeah, so. So the fancy stuff, it's Hobday 848 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,800 and Hicks. And obviously the Baron's War is 849 00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,160 Baron's War on Facebook and Empress. 850 00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:53,120 Miniatures have their own, and so do Brigade games. 851 00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:56,160 They will have their own Facebook pages, so keep up. 852 00:53:56,280 --> 00:54:00,600 Or if you want to I do post every now and again sculpting 853 00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,720 work on my own page on social media. 854 00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:07,920 But it's mostly models of Spitfires that I'm making or 855 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,520 playing rugby, so. Yeah, I saw those. 856 00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,520 They're fun. But I know that a lot of our 857 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,520 listeners are into, you know, historical gaming. 858 00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:19,720 So they should, they should tune into what you guys are doing 859 00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:22,240 because yeah, like I said, it's, I think it's exciting. 860 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,600 I think it's bridging. It's getting closer and closer 861 00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,560 to, you know, to bridging that gap between, you know, dull, 862 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,160 boring photographs of very old miniatures in historical gaming, 863 00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:35,400 but now becoming more exciting, you know, visually exciting. 864 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,160 And it's and the rules themselves, the game rules 865 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,640 they're making now are becoming much more in line with a lot of 866 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:46,200 other fantasy type systems out there too, which which makes it 867 00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,920 just easier for people to get into so. 868 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:53,320 Boris, Boris and Mark of Is it Weymouth? 869 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:54,960 Weymouth. I think so. 870 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:56,200 You can't pronounce it either. That's good. 871 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,560 Yeah, they have their mouth. But I don't know, yeah. 872 00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:05,000 They're doing a great job of of doing a rundown of the rules for 873 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:06,840 Baron Swore. So yeah, give it. 874 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,080 Give it a look. Absolutely. 875 00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:11,160 I've been watching those videos and they've done a fantastic 876 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:12,480 job. Watched the bad report too. 877 00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:14,120 Yes, yeah. Yeah. 878 00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,920 They've got a great way of presenting the game and they've 879 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,160 got a couple of good guys there, you know, running through the 880 00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:23,960 demo of of the game as well and talking about the rules and 881 00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,880 stuff like that. So I'll leave links in the show 882 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,960 notes for them as well because they're just starting out and I 883 00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,520 want to give Boris a good, good helping hand with some more 884 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,200 subscribers and more eyes on what he's making there. 885 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:39,040 And who knows, the Crown Command might have their own Barons War 886 00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,280 game at some point. If I can find anybody or con 887 00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,160 them into playing a game with me, we'll see how we go. 888 00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:47,720 But yeah, I'm sure you'll be able to find someone. 889 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,040 We can do a solo otherwise, or they do a remote play or 890 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:51,760 whatever. I don't know. 891 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,400 I'm really excited. I'm really excited to get these 892 00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:58,960 miniatures painted and you know, making a nice table top and with 893 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:01,040 terrain and everything and then start playing. 894 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,080 It would be really fun. Fantastic. 895 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:04,480 Brilliant. Thank you. 896 00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:07,040 OK. Well, thanks very much again, 897 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,080 Paul, for all your time and for sharing your story. 898 00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,600 I really appreciate it, mate. And maybe we'll have you back 899 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,720 talking about your very first White Dwarf magazine that you 900 00:56:15,720 --> 00:56:17,160 ever saw. Can you remember what, what 901 00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:20,360 issue that was? White dwarf issue one side. 902 00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:23,800 Well, let me get them. So the first one I was in was 903 00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:25,920 210. Right. 904 00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:32,320 But that was a bit on the Plaza store itself. 905 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:34,040 Right. OK. 906 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,760 Yep. My with my first ever sculpted 907 00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,960 miniature which was a full sculpt which was a the Giant. 908 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:48,200 Then it was 228 which was a Christmas edition. 909 00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,680 There you go. Don't know if you can see. 910 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:53,200 Oh yeah. Wow. 911 00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:55,520 All right. My Empire army. 912 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:57,640 Awesome. OK, now this. 913 00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:01,240 This army, of course, has sadly been sold off between. 914 00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:07,840 Yeah, it's owned by the John Stallard, who's the owner of 915 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,440 Warlord Games. Right, well I reckon you should 916 00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,600 get in touch with John and say if you've still got it, you can 917 00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,840 sculpt them some miniatures and trade for getting it back. 918 00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:19,880 I think I'd need to be sculpting a lot. 919 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,880 Yeah, we'll see how you go, man. I know you want it back. 920 00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:26,880 That's a beautiful looking army. The Perry stuff was just 921 00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:27,680 amazing. You know? 922 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,800 It's. Yeah, anything. 923 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:37,000 I'm a big I I like the pomp and the the ceremony of Napoleonics, 924 00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:41,760 right, The colour and and what they do for their miniatures, 925 00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,320 you know, their, their Napoleonic stuff, yeah. 926 00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:52,520 So I probably like all the boring sort of dusty historical 927 00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:54,440 stuff that you're not sort of that into. 928 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:59,280 But what they do with their their, Napoleonics is just it's 929 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,400 just amazing. Now whatever whatever the 930 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:04,120 Perry's touch they they've turned to gold. 931 00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:05,480 I've got. I've got all their samurai 932 00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:09,760 miniatures here, which are now, what, 20 years old at least? 933 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,320 Yeah, yeah, it's. Beautiful miniatures, still 934 00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:13,960 gorgeous to paint. You know they're they're 935 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,480 wonderful old school miniatures. So yeah, whatever the Perry's 936 00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:23,320 do, they really do it well, so. They just had an age of realism, 937 00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:29,680 even with their fancy stuff. It's just just has a a feel that 938 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,120 I don't think any other sculpts have managed to get. 939 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,160 No, they had something magic in their fingers when they're just 940 00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,160 making those little toy men, I think they just had something 941 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:43,120 about them that gave the, you know, they they made their own, 942 00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,000 you know, impression with every miniature they made. 943 00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:47,800 Because you when you pick something up, you just know, OK, 944 00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:51,040 that's a Perry because it just had a distinguishing features 945 00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,040 about it or the white, the style of how they did things. 946 00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:56,760 But I suppose Jess Goodwin's the same, you know, you you look at 947 00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:58,440 something, you just know it's a Jess Goodwin. 948 00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:01,520 And I think for you yourself, I think, you know, you just know 949 00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,080 that's a Paul Hicks miniature. It's got a very distinguishing 950 00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:06,960 style to it, so. Which is which? 951 00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,880 Which, well, which? Which 3D sculptors don't have, 952 00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:11,040 you know what I mean? Like, that's why I like 953 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,560 traditional sculpt sculptors. I like the the feel of the heft 954 00:59:14,560 --> 00:59:16,560 of lead. I like all that because it's 955 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:18,840 got, you know, part of yourself in the miniature. 956 00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:23,240 And I think a lot of the modern style stuff just doesn't have 957 00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,560 that. It's a very disconnected kind of 958 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,040 thing. Well, it's not immediate. 959 00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,240 I I like to. I've always liked to make things 960 00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:36,200 with my hands. Yeah, and be connected with, you 961 00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,400 know, just instant. It's more of an instant 962 00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,440 gratification. And the last thing I want to do 963 00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,000 is work at a computer all day. Yeah, that's it, mate. 964 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:44,120 I know. That's right. 965 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:45,640 Yeah. No, I can tell you how it's. 966 00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:49,360 Not have not have anything to show except for a picture on the 967 00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:53,240 screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 968 00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:55,920 I know it's it's a modern thing but you know, I'm, I'm really 969 00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,880 happy that to see that the the traditional, you know, crafts, 970 00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:02,240 crafts are still around and people still appreciate it. 971 01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:05,240 That's the main thing. So but anyhow Paul, look, I'll 972 01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,040 let you get back to work mate. I know you're very busy and 973 01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,360 thank you very much for your time again today, but we'll 974 01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:10,000 have. No problems. 975 01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,560 Thank you. We'll keep in touch with one of 976 01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:14,960 your white dwarves, probably featuring your Empire army. 977 01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:16,960 That'll be really nice to showcase at some point. 978 01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:19,400 OK, I'll try and get it scanned for you. 979 01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:21,240 Good on your buddy. Thanks very much again. 980 01:00:21,240 --> 01:00:22,160 Hey. It is, Yeah. 981 01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:22,400 Bye. Bye.