Thank you very much again for tuning into the Chronicle in
podcast and wishing you all a very happy 2024.
And today we have a very special guest which is Paul Hicks and
he's a miniature designer, a very good one.
In fact. I've just purchased some of the
models from Futsal Miniatures to get them in my in my hands to
paint them. I've been dreaming and and just
just being so obsessed with these miniatures since I've seen
them from the Barons War range that I had to have them.
So that's my Christmas gift to myself is I don't often buy
miniatures myself to be honest. So it'd been really, really nice
to find this particular range of historical miniatures that
Paul's going to talk to me about that and plus his his foray into
Games Workshop at a very young age.
So hope you enjoyed this interview guys, and let's go on
with it. OK, mate.
So well, yeah, thank you again for taking the time to come to
speak with me and the audience here at the Chronic command And
but now I've, I've, I've got to know about you through your work
and of course you're a traditional sculptor, sculptor
and a miniature designer, which is fantastic.
And I got to listen to an interview with you I think was
with Boris from. That's right.
Yeah. We are Mouth Studios and they're
a new upcoming YouTube channel talking about the Barons war and
the system that you work with Andy Hobday in creating the
miniature for, which is proudly displayed behind me because I
absolutely love the the out out Rimmer.
I'm probably not pronouncing that it's a French word, I'm
I'm, I'm butchering it completely.
But it sounds beautiful when a French person says it.
But you know or three Emma, maybe with three Emma, with
three Emma. There you go.
And I love the, I love the miniatures you designed for
that. So I thought I'd and I heard
that you work for games workshops.
I thought man we can tie those in together and talk about your
history with Games Workshop. You know your current work now
as a as a miniature designer and how that all worked in together
and and all that as well. So for people who don't know who
you are, could you please let us know?
Give us an introduction. Well, my name's Paul Hicks.
I've been a miniature traditional miniature sculptor.
Now think you need to define that this day and age for
professionally. For just over 20 years I've
always pretty much worked in in the gaming industry, from being
a part timer when I was 16 all the way through to now really
with a short interlude working for a wood floor, wood floor
company as a salesman. Right.
So you you started, so you started like basically at 16
works in a part timer as Games Workshop, is that right?
Yeah, back in well at first. My first time was when I was 14.
I was worked at the GW at the Games Workshop in Darling Rd.
Hammersmith when I was 14 as a work experience, and then when I
was 16 that was 92 I went. I became a part timer and then I
worked at GW in Plaza for a long time and then had a bit of time
out to go do my college work. And in 95, When I was 19, I
started full time at Games Workshop Harrow and then from
there till 2000 I worked for a Games Workshop in the retail
department. OK, all happy days working for
GW then. Well, I think, well, you're a
veteran aren't you? Yeah.
Well, The thing is I was, I was always about making figures and
and stuff like that. I was never really into the
suppose I I prefer to sit down and and paint as opposed to play
intro games. Yeah.
So I'm I mean I, you know I did it but it wasn't you know my
excite you know wasn't the thing I I really wanted to do.
I really want to sit down paint toy soldiers and and convert
miniatures. Really.
Me too. That's why.
I think that's why they got rid of me out of the Plaza.
They sent me to send me to Luton.
Oh, well, there you go. That's yeah, Well I wondered,
was looting like the some of the stores I worked at which was
Hammers, Richmond and Kensington, that you've got no
one injured in the day so just spent the time making my own, my
own figures. And that's pretty much why I
sort of learnt sculpt really just converting miniatures and
and while no one ever came into the shop and instead of making
stuff for the store, I just kind of sneakily made stuff for
myself instead. Yeah, I'm sure I wasn't alone at
at sort of taking that liberty of working at Games Workshop.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
I think, Luton, you could get away with that.
I would. I would just sit there all day
and paint because no one would come in.
Especially weak, you know. Yeah, I mean they're big days
where you only make like 16 lbs for the whole day.
And if you, you know, if you weren't making stuff for
yourself, I mean it was pretty much, you know, you would go
completely crazy. And it was like that weird
thing. You weren't allowed to make
stuff for yourself. But if you did, you kind of
started selling it because you were more infused about it than
or I was more infused about it than the the next release that
Games Workshop were, you know, going to put out.
So OK, yeah, in a way it helped helped me sell stuff, but I'm
not sure if it helped sell the things that Games Workshop
wanted to sell at the time. And Mike, how was how were you
introduced to the like hobby, either through miniatures or
tabletop war gaming? Was it like a friend or family
member that got you into it, or was it just like just a random
walk into a GW one day? Well, I was always into making
models. I mean my mom and dad from a
very early age. I mean one of my earliest
memories was was being told to sort of stay away from the loft
hatch while my dad built some model railway.
I must have been about two and it was it was something my mum
and dad did. My mum's quite a good artist and
so they always sort of got me into drawing.
I think it's more drawing with something so my mum could watch
the Aussie soap Sullivans during the day.
So I was being able to be pretty occupied while she, you know,
could watch telly basically. And then making models with my
dad's and then just making stuff.
And then I was, I think it's when I went to high school for
the and then there was a kid there with a magazine called
White Dwarf and I'd never seen it before and it just, well, I
heard of Games Workshop figures because there was a model shop
that had the little blister packs and you could like it was
just before, just after they started to move from the solid
base to slaughter and you got about 5 figures in a blister
pack for about pounds then. And they always intrigued me.
They looked fun, but it was the paints never seem to adhere.
I'd never didn't have any idea of you know, how to paint them
but they they looked cool. So and then when I went to high
school then I sort of got introduced to white dwarf.
I think the first white dwarf I ever saw is when they released
the new. Well, what was new then, But the
first line of Terminators, that that big flat sort of pizza box
of Terminators. And then, yeah, I was kind of
hooked. And it was the Hammersmith store
was only one stop away from my on the tube from my school.
So after school I would go get on the tube, bunk on the tube
because there was no one at the the ticket office.
So I would sort of sneak, yeah, bunk.
And then I had a return ticket, so it was no problem at the
other end. And then to spend the time at
Games Workshop instead of doing homework based today.
Excellent. And yeah, from there, sort of.
But I've never, I've never really been a big gamer.
It's always the miniatures that sort of got to me and the idea
of collecting and sort of painting them that was more that
I was into as opposed to the actual gaming itself.
Wonderful. So so you you built models with
your father at home and then you you you got your your first gig
and work experience at Games Workshop.
Did you have any sort of like modeling mentors that people
used to look up to, or people guided you with your sculpting?
Well there was the first, the first sort of person I was
really inspired by was a there's an American figure sculpt.
Well, he converts mostly and it's all historical stuff.
This guy called Bill Horan and he it's all 54 millimetre and he
did a siege of Gander Mark Diorama that was in military
modelling about the same time I got my first white dwarf.
And that's what sort of got me from wanting to make or just
have standard like the Itamia figures and maybe convert them.
So that was the first guy was just like this is amazing, you
know, it's sort of I've always with my modelling, I've never
been. When I've seen a kit I've, I've
never wanted that. I've just wanted to make it
slightly different and especially with figures.
So I've always been sort of cutting stuff up.
And then when I did my work experience there was a guy, what
I still see now is Jim Coburn and he sat me down and he showed
me how to paint properly and also he was massively into
conversions and stuff. So he was sort of just showing
me that I could cut bits up and then and make like more
interesting figures. But, but basically trying to
keep them, you know, the silhouette and stuff like, you
know, to make them look coherent as opposed to just the massive
figures all thrown together. So I would actually say that
sort of Jim was the guy that sort of started me off on my my
GW collects you know collecting days.
So he, yeah, I owe him a massive debt which I do tell him most of
the time when I see him once a year.
Oh, that's. Good.
That's nice you still you kept you kept in contact with him.
That's great. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's a lovely guy. What what particular races were
you particularly interested in when you worked against worship?
What? What kind of things really
fascinated you at that time? I think the first things I got
was undead, because they did that amazing army box, which was
the Undead army, which was 10 lbs.
And I can remember going to the Games Workshop in Harrow.
I must have been about 1415 and buying that set because it came
with, is it like a chariot, some horsemen and stacks and stacks
of skeletons. So First off it was the undead,
and then the 1st Army I properly collected was think an Auckland
goblin army when I started to sort of be a part timer and
started to work for Games Workshop.
But I've always tended to to float towards the more human
races because at that time you had the Britannians that were
pretty much the old sort of citadel historical stuff, and
then the Empire, which was the the army I actually pretty much
collected and painted religiously just because they
were more sort of historically. I've always gone for the more
historically accurate stuff. The some of the weirdest stuff
didn't really do it for me because in in essence I'm more
of a historical gamer than or have interests.
If if fantasy elements don't ring true for me, it doesn't
really work. So yeah, The Empire was
definitely, and especially anything that Perry's created, I
was kind of into because I thought they had the the most,
most realistic style. But I also really, really loved
anything that Jess Goodwin did. But I think that was more his
concept work, because I've always been interested.
I mean, my my original job that I wanted to do was to make to
work in the film industry and like model making and stuff like
that. And then I ended up doing the
wrong course. At college, I was told that
media studies would be where I needed to go as opposed to doing
something in art. So I'd lost interest and then
was making models as opposed to doing homework and stuff like
that. We're doing coursework.
So anything when you look at any sort of making of book or any
art book, it's just full of concepts and those are the ones,
It's always the ones that never made it to film that I'm more
interested in and the ones that actually made it onto film.
So those early Jess Goodwin concepts as like Space Marines
where you see the exploded view and all the alternatives and
nine times out of 10 none of those made them.
I think one that really one of those those concepts were in
when they were thinking of doing Battlefield Gothic for the first
time and they had all the Jess Goodwin's concepts for the the
Imperial Navy. The never ever saw the light of
day until Kill Team. I think those are the ones that
really sparked my imagination. Interesting.
OK. And you just put in context your
the timeline when you started working Games Workshop.
We're talking at like early 90s. Yeah, yeah, early 90s.
So yeah, I was working part time at the The Plaza store when the
first box Warhammer came out. So you're the plastic orcs and
goblins and also the was I working there?
I think I was part time when the bot the first Box 40K came out
as well. OK, so this is 4th edition
fantasy and 2nd edition 40K, yeah?
That's right. Yes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I was, yeah, I was
managing Richmond, I think when third edition 40K came out with
the Black Templars. Yeah, I think so.
Those, those were kind of game changers, but they were very
much a the court, you know, selling the core games, you
know, it was absolutely, yeah. I think the Monopost kind of
could never get with the Monopost look or was more
interested in sort of those those fantastic pictures in
these sorts, the 3rd edition book, those massed armies that
people would put together near the back, the massive games,
those are the ones that really interested me.
Yes I I can understand. I think it was a big transition
from 3rd to 4th and it left some people back in the back in 3rd
and not wanting to progress to the to the 4th edition and it it
it then it you know GW exploded then and it just went global.
And you know, many people, many young people got involved with
tabletop war gaming and found miniatures and miniature
painting and it went on from there to be a great success, of
course. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well it needed to happen for it to grow.
But yeah, I'm I'm somebody who fears change.
So anything like that I always like, you know if you look at
old pictures, I kind of want to see see that you know what an
Old Town would look like as opposed to what it looks like
now. So any I'm I'm one for nostalgia
that I should have known nostalgia for for a time that I
didn't even live in, you know, I have a yearning to see what
that's like as opposed to to what what things look like now.
Sure, that's fair enough. And we talked before before we
came to the interview we you said you worked at the Plaza
store, which I actually worked at as well and I think we may
have a mutual friend in. Greg, is it Greg Stevenson?
Greg Stevens, Yes. Yeah.
Greg Stevens, Yeah. And yeah, he yeah, I'm well when
I was, yeah, because I first worked out.
I think I turned up the GW Plaza on my last day of school, so I
just finished GCSEs and we could go.
So I just went up there and it was on a Friday and then because
of Greg and his sidekick at the time.
Sheep. Sheep.
Yeah, yeah, I know him too. Yeah.
I ended up in the Astoria rock
night and, yeah, at 16 and didn't really know what what the
hell was going on. Yeah.
And Marcus Blackman as well was
there. Oh.
Great. Yeah, my long friend.
Yeah, that's wonderful. Yeah, yeah, He was there at the
time. Yeah, a guy called Lawrence
Widdecombe that I was. Yeah, he was being a long term
friend. Not a long time friend that I
still see every now and again. Yeah, I made some very good
friends while I worked there. Lawrence, I think that's a name
that now I remember, I met him a couple of times.
He sounds like you sound like quite a character.
And I remember him being on a diet of Guinness beer.
Yeah, like weeks and weeks on end.
He wanted to lose weight or something like that.
And I I think from memory that he was just on this diet of
Guinness beer and nothing else. No solids, just Guinness did the
job, I think. Sounds like Lawrence, yeah.
Yeah, a great bunch. Of guards.
Working there at that time, yeah.
He ended up the like most well, like you said, working at Luton.
I think he lived in Hammersmith but had to manage the Games
Workshop in the Watford, you know, So it was all, yeah, so my
first manager job was in Sutton, but I lived in West London, so
that was like a two hour track there and a two hour track back.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they never really took
into consideration where you lived as whether your nearest
store was. So you just did it for the love
of the hobby, You know what I mean?
You're just. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was your. Eating of reading, living off
the hobby kind of thing, you know?
Yeah. So they certainly, yeah, took
advantage of you there. But yeah, it was quite a good
experience and I'm sure you had a wonderful time and, you know,
shared experience of working at Games Workshop, meeting the
people. And I suppose the people for me
was the biggest thing. Like I took away from working at
Games Workshop, met so many great characters, so many people
that I really, you know, I felt I've made many friends in
England, in London at that time, because it's just, they're just
genuinely nice people, you know? Did you go, what was the pub?
It's the one bite of his store that the Astoria, was it the
jaw? No.
I'll. Tell you I'll tell you the story
because you know sheep, he was his last day.
He was he was leaving this leaving gangs workshop and I
don't. I think he went on to doing
something with agriculture or. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's. Right, whatever.
And I'll never forget this day. We went to the pub across the
road there from the Plaza. The Holy Rood.
Maybe I can't remember the name of the name of it now, mate, but
we all sat there on a big table outside.
It might have been in the summer because it probably obviously
wasn't that cold then. But we'll sit there having a
beer and I think I think sheep had some miniatures on the table
top on the on the table there looking at them and this guy
came out and he's holding a he was holding a pint glass and I
could tell he's pretty he was pretty pissed by this time and
he just came up to our table and he just he started looking at
sheep and saying I'm going to kill you.
I'm going to kill you. And like he just he just stood
there and started screaming at him.
I don't he'd never met him before I think and his his mate
came out and tried to pull him back say hey mate come on let's
go let's go. And then he.
And then he, he smashed the pint glass right next to me and just
broke it in his hand. Like his hand was bleeding and
that kind of thing. Like he was going to stab him
and kill him. And then the manager came out
and the bouncers came out and grabbed him and threw him down
the street. I never forget that day because
it was so intense. I've never been in a situation
like that before in my life. This guy just came out of
nowhere. Just what, kill sheep, I don't
know why. And we're just standing there
just totally, you know, amazed and astonished at what was
happening. And then, yeah, he got thrown
down the street and that was the end of that.
So it was a very it was that was my last time meeting sheep,
basically. Yeah, I I think the last time I
met him was when he was the manager at Harrow Well, but that
was about last time I met him. But yeah, he was a character.
And then, yeah, though he and Greg were pretty inseparable,
weren't they? And also Greg was, well,
probably still, well, I'm sure he is.
And you don't normally shrink, but he was huge as well, weren't
he? He was quite an imposing
character. He's very tall, lanky, long
blonde hair. Yeah, you know, he had, he had a
very good impression with the ladies every everywhere we went.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Bills would love him, you know,
he's just, he just had that character.
He had this very, yeah, kind of very charismatic personality
about him, I think, and people just really took to him really
well. Yeah, well, especially it was
sort of the height of guns and roses.
So he was. He was leaning on the Axel Rose.
Yeah, exactly. Well, Axel Rose, mate.
Yeah, exactly. He just needed a bandana.
He'd be right, you know, So, and we're talking about the age
where everyone had long hair. You know, all the guys had long
hair in the store. And you know, I started growing
up as well because it was just a thing to do back then.
You know, this is like early 90s when Metallica and all that kind
of stuff was, you know, going around all the heavy metal bands
and stuff like that, but. We didn't have to wear, we
didn't have to wear GW stuff working in the stores.
And it was when I think we had a manager, Ed Specki who was good
friends with Greg and Sheep and he was the manager and it we all
decided we were going to wear combats and Games Workshop,
right, like the T-shirts they would sell.
So to give the sort of the store a bit more of a a look.
So I think we would like the only store that would do that
and then then the red shirts came in.
But I think that was, yeah, that was, yeah, I think it was.
I'm sure that was his initiative to do that.
Yeah. I think we kind of had the the
feeling we were better than other stores, but things we
never really mixed with other stores in the in and around the
area. Yeah, we weren't there.
Wasn't like I think later on when I worked for GW there was a
bit more of a a sort of a social social side to working between
the the areas. But not then if you ever saw an
area manager that was, you know, out of the blue type thing,
yeah, it was very, yeah. Talking about it now, it was
great fun, yeah, but it was like had to be that £2.00 an hour.
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, it didn't.
I think it just about covered my travel to get up there.
I. Was going to say, yeah, you
wouldn't. You wouldn't be living, living
it up on a GW salary anytime soon, that's for sure.
I think by the time you say like, paid your rent, you paid
your travel costs, you paid for the food you ate every day and
that kind of thing, There wasn't much left and changed, just
enough to get your 50% discount on your GW figures if you wanted
them. Kind of thing, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah, we definitely did it for
the love of it as opposed to the work.
I mean, I've burnt, burnt through money that was given to
me to sort of go up there as opposed to actually working.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. There you go.
I hardly ever had to buy my own pints.
That was nice. Yeah, that was a funny thing
actually, because every time at the pub is like, OK, you know,
there's five of us. And I wasn't a big beer drink.
I wasn't. I didn't really drink alcohol at
all. But those guys really, you know,
you know, and they would drink, They drank pints, one of the
most of the worst Australian beer you could ever think of,
which was called Fosters, which no one in Australia ever drank.
But apparently it was just really popular in the UK.
It was like the cheapest beer you could get, probably.
But every time we rocked up there, it'd be like five guys
and the first guy I'd have to buy the whole entire round.
So by the time you left, you'd drink 5 pints, They were
complete, skin full, and you'd have to get back home.
And I think some of those, some of those times I was, you know,
I just didn't know how I got back home, basically.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, that sounds one of the funniest memories.
What was that pub called? It was rounds.
So we went up to Tottenham Court Road and turned right at the
station on the other side of the road of the Plaza.
Turn right. And then it was right again
where the old Astoria used to be.
It's all been knocked down now, no?
It's always snow. Is it OK?
It's boy knocked down. It's been knocked.
Down. Yeah, they they.
I completely knocked it all down to the bigger station and I sat
there just thinking normally I had to sort of go, and it was
probably probably talking to a girl or something.
And there's Punk came out of the pub because it was a metal pub,
and then just walked along, turned his head and the stream
of vomit had come all the way out and it was like a perfect
rainbow arc of just beer and awfulness.
And then just turns didn't even wipe his mouth or anything and
just carried on walking. It was like the most elegant,
disgusting thing you've ever seen in your life.
It wasn't Kev Adams, was it? No, no, this, no.
But it was an archetype. We had like a massive Mohawk, so
everything works. Yeah.
It was like the most punk thing ever, yeah.
Wonderful. Yeah.
We're going to go for a quick break and when we come back, we
can start talking about your career in miniature designing
and how you got to become established as a sculptor for
great companies like Footsaw in particular.
So we'll be back in just a minute, Paul.
OK, no problem. But yeah, let's talk about your
work with Futsal, because that's how I discovered you with your
Barons War range, which was highlighted on Tabletop, which
is a YouTube channel that Jerry and the other guys run.
And they sort of showcase lots of wonderful projects coming out
from game developers out there. And I thought, looked at these
and I thought, wow, because I'm, you know, for me personally, I'm
not a historical buff. I'm not into historical gaming.
I found it very boring early on in my younger years and it it
wasn't much an attractive to me. But when I saw the Baron's War
stuff and other things relate like you know test of honor and
that kind of thing, you know, the presentation was very good.
The miniature range was very nicely done.
The the miniature painting was very high standard.
It's sort of it's come up in levels.
I think to we're a point where, you know, that's competing with
the other fantasy game Rangers out there.
I think you know what I mean. Yeah, my my interest in war
gaming has always been mass battles.
I've always liked those big direct diorama displays, that
sort of museums and stuff. So I'm I'm very much of the the
big, big scale stuff, but I not have the patience to paint
hundreds of figures. But I like those are the things
I like seeing. But also I love skirmish gaming
with more time than was one of my favorite games.
I think everyone's favorite game, but coming back to sort of
how I got into into sculpting. So when I worked at GW there,
like I said before, you know, when people weren't coming into
the store, I sort of would be making my own stuff.
And then I collected an Empire Army and I had a gaming friend,
a guy called Andy Sherwell. I started with this Empire army,
which was in White Dwarf. I'll send you some pictures and
I was starting to make things like a Knights Panther musician
or musician for other units or a standard bearer for my
flatulence and things like that and converted my own elect count
in general. I you know you couldn't get so
but it will be basically cut one figure in half and then put
another you know onto another figure.
And me and Andy Cher, while we used to, we'd game a lot.
We had our own gaming club and then he he bought a company
called Grip and Beast which is a miniatures company.
And he knew that me and another guy who worked for Game Switch
at the time, Andy Dormer, were were into sort of converting
figures. So he asked us to do some small
bits for him. And for about a couple of years
I've been making the odd little figure for them, mostly
converting figures, miniatures they haven't got in their range
that they needed. And then I back in 2002, so I'd
left Games Workshop at that time and I was working as in a wood
flooring company as a sales assistant, which was like high
ends at the bottom of the I was at the bottom of the ladder.
I was a shopper boy, basically, but I was earning top GW manager
wage. You're right, right.
Yeah. Yeah, While I was doing that, I
was sort of doing more historical stuff.
We were really into Warhammer Ancient Battles.
Oh, right. So that was a real, you know, we
could get our historical fix and also our Warhammer fix at the
same time. So we were big into that.
So I started doing a few conversions and then a company
called, what was it? Backloners.
Yeah, backloners in Evesham. They used to import stuff from
America and they asked if I would make they were looking for
sculptors to do a range of early First World War figures and that
that's a period that really interested me.
And so they they asked me and and the Dormer if we would do a
test figure for them and they were happy with them and that
was my first range. But it meant I could sort of
leave my job and then and do sculpt full time.
And the I went to my dad's, I can remember quite vividly
because me and my fiance, now my wife, went to my dad.
We went round to see my dad before we were going out for the
night. And I said, look, this
opportunity's come up and he just sort of turned around and
said, well, he might as well take it, you know, is is it
something you want to do? And I was like, yeah, it's
something I would like to do. And he said, well, there's not,
you're not really ever going to get a chance to do something
that you ever want to do. So why not?
And I was like, yeah, that's great.
So I went on to do that and then sort of by it was the day after
I went, went out for a night out with friends and then funny
enough, met. It was a great night because we,
I found out I was going to be a sculpt for the first time
professionally, went to a nightclub, met our best friends
at this nightclub that night. Yeah.
So it was sort of a perfect evening.
Next day was salute, went to salute and then the next day,
you know, that Monday I was, I was a figure sculptor.
Then the world sort of came to realise that actually you need
to sort of knuckle down and this might be a lot more harder work
than you expected it to be. Yeah, and I did that for a
couple of years. Started to make be interested in
we, our gaming club. We used to play a version of
Warhammer 40,000 called Warhammer 44.
It would be Second World War armies as opposed to 40K.
And there was the odd figure that wasn't available.
So I would. I think I made like a German
medic and other figures and a friend of the gripping beast, a
guy called Simon Bargery went, oh you know, have you thought
about making these for yourself? And I was like, well, no, not
well, I would like to, it'd be quite nice, but I haven't really
given it much thought. And he said, well look, I'll put
in 500 lbs of my own money and you give £500 worth of sculpts
and we'll start, you know, see how it goes.
And then from there we started a company called Bolt Action
Miniatures, which has kind of gone on to two Warlord games,
some quite good business. And then from there I had some
distribution with a company called Brigade Games that I
still work for in the States and it's word of mouth through
companies. A company, one of the biggest,
my J Games, is one of my biggest customers and Empress miniatures
over here in Oxford. They got sort of know and then
built up relationships with companies.
And then Andy Hobday of Futsal Miniatures I knew as one of my
shop managers when I went back to the Plaza in 97, got in
contact. It's about doing some work and
the rest is history when it comes to Futsal.
It's incredible how many connections you can draw back to
Games Workshop from the people in the industry now, isn't it?
Oh, massive, Absolutely massive. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's got all that, you know, all over the world.
You can you find someone that's you've probably not 6°, more
like 2° of separation from and it worked or has been at the the
Plaza store at some point. Yeah, it's incredible.
Yeah. It's wonderful.
Yeah, that's great because you know, like Test of Honor,
they're great for now games. Graham Davey, he's XGW.
He's actually GW staff, like the studio staff, White or vanity
team, you know. So yeah, you can always go back,
you know, Warlord Games, XGW, you know, John Stallard and crew
and that kind of thing. Oh yeah, I work.
Yeah. Well, one of my I did.
Some of their first figures were mine, sort of the the metal
figures to go with their romance.
And then so we built up over a period of time, about five
years. We built up old action
miniatures, me and Simon, and then it got too big for us
because we were taking it to shows.
It was just in Simon's garage. He was in Portsmouth, I was in
London and then Warlord Games offered us some money that we we
couldn't you know say no to and that's that's how Bolt Action
miniature started with Warlord Games.
Yeah. Yeah, it's always been, yeah.
It's always come through for me, sculpting, which has been good,
yeah. That's good to hear, Paul.
That's nice man. It's it's great that you can
make your you know, your love of you know doing something
something very creative and now it's become your full time you
know career for the last 20 years and it looks like in
genuine for you know as long as possible which is great.
Well, hopefully. Yeah.
Very high in demand mate. Every, every, you know, you seem
to be very very highly in demand and I think futsal miniatures
are under a really good thing here with Baron's War and you
know the different ranges they'll produce in the future
and different historical periods and and what have you now.
You did talk about a World War 2 theme Kickstarter that will be
coming out in the future and I saw some miniatures of that,
which, you know, I'm not a World War Two guy, but wow, I saw
those miniatures. I was really amazed how good
they were. Like the character of those, I
think no paratroopers, paratroopers and.
Yeah. So it's it's with one of my long
standing companies, Empress companies that I've worked for
which is Empress Miniatures right?
And I did, I did British paratroopers.
I think they weren't like the best figures I'd done for when I
owned Bolt Action Miniatures. Some of them are still available
through Warlord games. I was so pleased with those.
But looking now I'd you know the I'm a bit better, bit better at
sculpting and Empress asked me to do some what the Second World
War figures for them. So I've done some Volks
Grenadier which are for the Germans which are like not the
best level of troops at very end end of the war for for the
Germans, some Americans for the battle of the Bulge and some
British again the same sort of period so winter and we wanted
to do a Kickstarter and we our first thoughts were Soviets for
as a Kickstarter. But then Putin had just made
that sort of not flavour of the months so we we thought about
what what could we do and British paratroopers have been
sort of really they're a very popular force to play in games
like chain of Command by the the two Fat Ladis and Bolt action.
So they're they're quite well catered for, but we wanted
something that people that would already have British
paratroopers would want and it was doing the Market Garden,
which is a bridge too far if you've seen the film and we
wanted. We didn't want to depict them as
they just landed, which most Rangers do.
We wanted to depict them 2-3 days in where they've dropped
all their kit, their kits worn, some of them are wounded,
there's lots of famous characters to to portray as well
and I think that that sparked quite a lot of a lot of
imagination and it it's done really well.
So we're really pleased with how that's going and in fact I'm
busily sculpting the next next phase for that at the moment,
along with a project for Andy and myself which is is going to
be some fantasy figures. Yes, that's a great segue
because I I saw on Facebook there is a Hobday and Hicks page
which is dedicated to this fantasy rage that you are
producing for for for Andy and. Oh no, it's for me and Andy.
Oh. Just for you and Andy, right?
It's just. Yeah, yeah, this is.
I'm dipping my toe back into the miniature's realm again.
So this is, this is for myself and Andy, Yeah, it's really
exciting. So I mean, I might have said
earlier I'm more of a historical gamer as opposed to a fantasy.
But we found that a lot of people were using our Barrens
war figures, especially the lightly armoureds like the
Pilgrims or the the Peasants figures that we've done in
fantasy settings. And we thought, well, it would
be great to sort of do a line of figures inspired by, you know,
fantasy, but very much inspired by sort of the Dark Age feel.
So we're that's what we're embarking on.
That's what Hobday and Hicks is all about.
Yeah, that's really nice looking minutes is on there and I want
to give you a shout out to HVM Workbench because the person
responsible for painting and and especially the photography, the
atmosphere, this person to capture in these pictures.
I mean for Baron's Ward, the that's, that's all beyond it
because you know, you have beautiful looking miniatures.
But unless they're painted perfect or beautiful beautifully
and they're presented in a way that captures the atmosphere of
what you're selling, it's a it's a big contributor to, you know,
getting people to cross that line and say, yeah, I really
want to get those miniatures just to paint or want them for
the game or whatever. It he's I mean we've worked from
him with him I think from the the first, the first we've done
4 Barrens War kick starters now and they've I think he worked
with us on the first one I think but definitely from the 2nd
onwards is his work is is is being invaluable to the to the
actual kick start of progress so we're we're very fortunate to be
able to work with them. Yeah, I know it's been
fantastic. I I've, I actually ordered my
miniatures yesterday. I can't wait to get them and
because you know, they're all your sculpts of course.
But you know just just going by the promo stuff on Futsal's
website, I was completely sold. I I've been dreaming about these
miniatures. Like I'm just saying I need to
get these because they're so beautiful.
I just, I've never been attracted to any historical
stuff before in my life, but this whole package has just sold
me on it completely about the Crusades and and all that kind
of stuff. Even the the, the Islamic
forces, they're painted so well. I mean, they're designed so
well, but they're painted so beautifully that I'm just like,
yeah, this is what I really want to do.
I really want to get the same sort of style and the way he's
painting them and the detail and the Shields and all the the
fabric, you know, detail work he's doing on those.
Yeah, it really sold me completely on that.
Oh, that's that's fantastic to hear.
Well, hopefully the miniatures live up to your expectations.
No mate, they look really cool. I really, really love them,
honestly. So yeah, I really hope to.
When I when I get them, I'll do a video like an unboxing kind of
thing and showing the models, how they, how they develop
delivered to me and how they how they look out of the blister or
packaging and that kind of thing.
So I can see the the casting, you know and the level of detail
in the models. Because yeah, I think you guys
do a fantastic range of miniatures and it's just getting
that more exposure. So hopefully through the Crown
of Command we can help do that for you guys and get more people
either picking up the miniatures for various different systems
they're playing. If it's not Baron's Wall, you
can use it for various other different game systems.
Yeah I mean there's there's no. I mean because of it when we did
our first Kickstarter we didn't actually have a rule set.
I mean that came with the 2nd Kickstarter Barrens War the you
know, it's it's snowballing. That's been the beauty with it
is that we've been able to build a a community along with it.
And I always I'm not. That's why I get my enthusiasm
for because I don't literally have about six or seven painted
miniatures in my house. Enjoyment has always been
building or sculpting figures. So when I go and see people or
when I see people's work that they've they've spent their time
painting or collecting stuff that I've made.
That's where I get my enthusiasm from.
And to see, you know the the Barrens wore like the Facebook
page and people's work. It's the thing that really, you
know, that gets me fired up. I mean I've I've got more
painted Spitfires in my in my workshop for making model kits
and I have painted figures. That's not that I don't, you
know, I have. I love going to shows and seeing
and massive displays and games on people's work.
But yeah, it's always been this part of the hobby is the bit
that's always interested me, as opposed to sort of the painting.
But I could never use. Well, it's part apart from the
time when I used to be able to nick an hour's worth of
sculpting when no one came into the store.
You know, that was something that was pretty frowned on when
I worked at GW. So now I'm getting to live my my
dream basically, which is great. Yeah mate, Yeah, I'm really
happy for you, Paul. That's great, mate.
That's awesome. And long may that continue.
You know hope. So otherwise we'll be out on our
air. But you always seem to be in
demand and that's that's the good thing about it.
And I think you know, with your partnership with these various
different companies that Rangers grow and then, you know,
different periods get talked about and that kind of thing.
And I just want to express too that like I said and I think
many people know who know me, I'm not, I'm not a historical
gamer. I've never, never been one.
I've tried Warhammer Ancients and I dabbled with that with my
naked Germans and it was interesting, but you know, it
wasn't really my thing. But but with this, with the
Barons war stuff, it actually got me interested in learning
about the history. So I started tracking down some
PDFs on the Templars and the Templars, I should say, and the
Crusades, and learning about the various different sects and
factions and all that kind of stuff.
And that's never happened before.
And Testafana did the same thing to me as well, because I live in
Japan. I'm, you know, I'm interested in
Samurai, the Sengoku period and that kind of thing, so.
Just so that I know I can kind of get in the atmosphere.
So I've been some of these elves have been not so much watching
anything fancy but sort of dipping my toe into YouTube and
people's sort of fantasy collections or you know, sort of
anything to do with special effects for fantasy films or
anything like that. But I'll need to, I'll need to
sort of immerse myself in the period or definitely
documentaries on YouTube on the period.
And I'll obviously that'll be feeding itself in and getting
the creative juices going. But it's if you've got a range
of miniatures, if it's a fantasy range, you know you'll be
attracted by the range and then you'll read about the law.
So you're just in effect reading the law about the the Barons
War, aren't you? At the moment that's you're just
immersing yourself in in the period.
I think. I think it attracts me because
there's there's a certain level of mystique behind it.
And World War 2 is just too close to home because my my
grandparents lived through the Second World War in the
Netherlands under the occupation of the of the Germans.
And certain flashbacks they had, you know, even when I was you
know 20 odd or something like that, they had there were
certain incidences where, you know, they wouldn't talk about
the war. And you know, I remember my
grandmother sitting with me in in in the room one day and the
the one of the military, like the RAF flew over a house really
quite low and she just bolted up, you know, like just out of
shock and you know, terrified, thinking the Germans because it
just brought back all these memories of, you know.
Yeah, I can understand that. So yeah.
I mean coming from the uki mean like my grandfather in Italy and
we have a completely different experience because we weren't
occupied. So I think it sits in a
different mindset with us, to the point where I think my
grandfather went to war to escape his home life as opposed.
I think there's a good reason my dad was an only child.
But I think, yeah, it's a different experience for us as
opposed to, you know, people that lived under the occupation.
And things like war films have captured my imagination.
And some of the stories that my grandfather told me when I was a
boy, I mean, a lot of them now, if you sort of did read between
the lines, must have been absolutely horrific.
Yeah, well, must have been. They were absolutely horrific.
But it was all exciting at the time.
Yeah, of course. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah. Yeah.
And capture the imagination. Yeah, that's wonderful, man.
That's great. Well, look, but honestly, thank
you very much again for today. I, I, I wish you for 2024, mate
in your Kickstarter or sculpting endeavours with various
companies you're working with. We will stay tuned to see what
they're all about. I'll leave some links in the
show notes for this video and the podcast so that people can
go to those Facebook groups so they can keep in touch with all
the updates of things coming out.
Yeah, so. So the fancy stuff, it's Hobday
and Hicks. And obviously the Baron's War is
Baron's War on Facebook and Empress.
Miniatures have their own, and so do Brigade games.
They will have their own Facebook pages, so keep up.
Or if you want to I do post every now and again sculpting
work on my own page on social media.
But it's mostly models of Spitfires that I'm making or
playing rugby, so. Yeah, I saw those.
They're fun. But I know that a lot of our
listeners are into, you know, historical gaming.
So they should, they should tune into what you guys are doing
because yeah, like I said, it's, I think it's exciting.
I think it's bridging. It's getting closer and closer
to, you know, to bridging that gap between, you know, dull,
boring photographs of very old miniatures in historical gaming,
but now becoming more exciting, you know, visually exciting.
And it's and the rules themselves, the game rules
they're making now are becoming much more in line with a lot of
other fantasy type systems out there too, which which makes it
just easier for people to get into so.
Boris, Boris and Mark of Is it Weymouth?
Weymouth. I think so.
You can't pronounce it either. That's good.
Yeah, they have their mouth. But I don't know, yeah.
They're doing a great job of of doing a rundown of the rules for
Baron Swore. So yeah, give it.
Give it a look. Absolutely.
I've been watching those videos and they've done a fantastic
job. Watched the bad report too.
Yes, yeah. Yeah.
They've got a great way of presenting the game and they've
got a couple of good guys there, you know, running through the
demo of of the game as well and talking about the rules and
stuff like that. So I'll leave links in the show
notes for them as well because they're just starting out and I
want to give Boris a good, good helping hand with some more
subscribers and more eyes on what he's making there.
And who knows, the Crown Command might have their own Barons War
game at some point. If I can find anybody or con
them into playing a game with me, we'll see how we go.
But yeah, I'm sure you'll be able to find someone.
We can do a solo otherwise, or they do a remote play or
whatever. I don't know.
I'm really excited. I'm really excited to get these
miniatures painted and you know, making a nice table top and with
terrain and everything and then start playing.
It would be really fun. Fantastic.
Brilliant. Thank you.
OK. Well, thanks very much again,
Paul, for all your time and for sharing your story.
I really appreciate it, mate. And maybe we'll have you back
talking about your very first White Dwarf magazine that you
ever saw. Can you remember what, what
issue that was? White dwarf issue one side.
Well, let me get them. So the first one I was in was
210. Right.
But that was a bit on the Plaza store itself.
Right. OK.
Yep. My with my first ever sculpted
miniature which was a full sculpt which was a the Giant.
Then it was 228 which was a Christmas edition.
There you go. Don't know if you can see.
Oh yeah. Wow.
All right. My Empire army.
Awesome. OK, now this.
This army, of course, has sadly been sold off between.
Yeah, it's owned by the John Stallard, who's the owner of
Warlord Games. Right, well I reckon you should
get in touch with John and say if you've still got it, you can
sculpt them some miniatures and trade for getting it back.
I think I'd need to be sculpting a lot.
Yeah, we'll see how you go, man. I know you want it back.
That's a beautiful looking army. The Perry stuff was just
amazing. You know?
It's. Yeah, anything.
I'm a big I I like the pomp and the the ceremony of Napoleonics,
right, The colour and and what they do for their miniatures,
you know, their, their Napoleonic stuff, yeah.
So I probably like all the boring sort of dusty historical
stuff that you're not sort of that into.
But what they do with their their, Napoleonics is just it's
just amazing. Now whatever whatever the
Perry's touch they they've turned to gold.
I've got. I've got all their samurai
miniatures here, which are now, what, 20 years old at least?
Yeah, yeah, it's. Beautiful miniatures, still
gorgeous to paint. You know they're they're
wonderful old school miniatures. So yeah, whatever the Perry's
do, they really do it well, so. They just had an age of realism,
even with their fancy stuff. It's just just has a a feel that
I don't think any other sculpts have managed to get.
No, they had something magic in their fingers when they're just
making those little toy men, I think they just had something
about them that gave the, you know, they they made their own,
you know, impression with every miniature they made.
Because you when you pick something up, you just know, OK,
that's a Perry because it just had a distinguishing features
about it or the white, the style of how they did things.
But I suppose Jess Goodwin's the same, you know, you you look at
something, you just know it's a Jess Goodwin.
And I think for you yourself, I think, you know, you just know
that's a Paul Hicks miniature. It's got a very distinguishing
style to it, so. Which is which?
Which, well, which? Which 3D sculptors don't have,
you know what I mean? Like, that's why I like
traditional sculpt sculptors. I like the the feel of the heft
of lead. I like all that because it's
got, you know, part of yourself in the miniature.
And I think a lot of the modern style stuff just doesn't have
that. It's a very disconnected kind of
thing. Well, it's not immediate.
I I like to. I've always liked to make things
with my hands. Yeah, and be connected with, you
know, just instant. It's more of an instant
gratification. And the last thing I want to do
is work at a computer all day. Yeah, that's it, mate.
I know. That's right.
Yeah. No, I can tell you how it's.
Not have not have anything to show except for a picture on the
screen. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know it's it's a modern thing but you know, I'm, I'm really
happy that to see that the the traditional, you know, crafts,
crafts are still around and people still appreciate it.
That's the main thing. So but anyhow Paul, look, I'll
let you get back to work mate. I know you're very busy and
thank you very much for your time again today, but we'll
have. No problems.
Thank you. We'll keep in touch with one of
your white dwarves, probably featuring your Empire army.
That'll be really nice to showcase at some point.
OK, I'll try and get it scanned for you.
Good on your buddy. Thanks very much again.
Hey. It is, Yeah.
Bye. Bye.