1
00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,000
John, thank you again mate for 
coming back onto the Chronic 

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:09,360
Command. 
It's been a long time in 

3
00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,760
awaiting but and I know a lot of
people have been anticipating 

4
00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,080
this particular show that we're 
going to look at Epic Hive War 

5
00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,200
today. 
It's the last supplement and the

6
00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,160
final supplement release for 
second edition Epic Space 

7
00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:27,080
Marine, and it's probably not 
one of the most common commonly 

8
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:32,600
seen or played forces in Epic. 
So that's kind it's kind of the 

9
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,840
Holy Grail if you can get a lot 
of those old plastic inventory 

10
00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,400
sprues and some of the metal 
models that were released during

11
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,080
the time in the in the later 
phase of Epic Space Marine 

12
00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,080
second edition during Titan 
legions. 

13
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,400
Of course, when this was out, 
Lucky, lucky you. 

14
00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,960
But for all us who haven't, we 
can only look and ponder and 

15
00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,760
wander what they were really 
like. 

16
00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:58,360
But mate, you got to play them 
first hand with your partner Sam

17
00:00:58,360 --> 00:00:59,800
there in the game of second 
edition. 

18
00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:03,480
But before we crack on with 
that, mate, tell us what's been 

19
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,440
happening in the meantime since 
we last talked. 

20
00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,000
Sure. 
And that kind of thing. 

21
00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,920
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Like it's, it's been a while. 

22
00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,200
Yeah, Josh and I have absolutely
been chatting nonetheless. 

23
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,920
But no, in terms of US catching 
up with with the chronic 

24
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,720
commander, it's definitely been 
far too long the number of times

25
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,280
we have scheduled this, this 
podcast and then the wives and 

26
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:25,280
wherefores of the universe 
conspire against us. 

27
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,200
So we've had like, we, I mean, 
we had that chat with AD the 

28
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,640
other day, which was incredible.
And yeah, so it's nice to 

29
00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,080
finally get here and do it. 
It has been a long time coming. 

30
00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:37,080
And it's just, it's like I've 
got a guy I work with my terrain

31
00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,720
guy, Julian, who does all my 
terrain for, for the company 

32
00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:40,800
keeps saying, John, what are you
doing? 

33
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,760
The what are you doing? 
The Epic podcast, what are you 

34
00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:43,640
doing? 
I'm like, oh, no, it's this 

35
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,760
weekend, It's this weekend. 
It gets cancelled. 

36
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:47,560
But yeah, finally, finally it's 
happening. 

37
00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,400
This is where there's going to 
be tech issues and the recording

38
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,280
gets deleted and we have to do 
it all over again or something. 

39
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,640
Actually, the universe doesn't 
want us to talk about here. 

40
00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,480
And it's but yeah, what have I 
been doing? 

41
00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,760
So it's been a weird year. 
So we're trying to sell the 

42
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:00,600
house. 
We're trying to move. 

43
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:04,200
I want to move cross country, 
which has kind of put a damper 

44
00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,199
on on as much gaming as I would 
like and as much hobbies I'd 

45
00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:11,039
like supposed to have the home 
set up as like a show home, not,

46
00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:14,400
you know, John and Sam's hobby 
chaos madness, which is what 

47
00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:15,920
it's normally like. 
You know, normally this room is 

48
00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:19,200
just full of painting tables and
the, you know, gaming table and 

49
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,400
what not. 
So that's been a bit of a bit of

50
00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,200
a pain really, but I've still 
been, you know, cracking on. 

51
00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,840
So managed to assemble the kind 
of entire tyranny collection. 

52
00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,600
So the bulk of my Tyranids were 
donated to me by my friend 

53
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,040
Stubbs, an American guy who 
knows I love Epic. 

54
00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,560
And he gave me really, like you 
were saying, the Holy Grail of 

55
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,560
the infantry. 
That's been the hardest part 

56
00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,840
with Tyranids is, you know, 
being the last army to come out 

57
00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,840
for second edition and then kind
of being one of the later armies

58
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,040
in 3rd edition as well. 
It was very, very hard to get 

59
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,440
hold of of, of epic Tyranids. 
So he, you know, gifted me a 

60
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:54,920
bunch of stuff, which was 
awesome. 

61
00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,440
And then I was like buying up 
odds and sods all over the 

62
00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:01,600
place. 
And of course, anyone that's 

63
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,280
tried to buy a Tiernan army 
online knows just how expensive 

64
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,520
it is. 
So I was buying, you know, a lot

65
00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,520
of like, you know, bulk or bits 
and pieces here. 

66
00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,360
I hate that a couple of my 
stands, like my cows, like house

67
00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,520
warriors, my Tiernan warriors 
are metal recasts just because 

68
00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:17,120
it was the only way I could fill
out those. 

69
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,200
So there's, you know, there's 
there's one or two individuals 

70
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,320
who are probably known to a lot 
of us in the community that 

71
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:26,640
definitely provide metal 
infantry of dubious Providence. 

72
00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:29,000
And so yeah, I had to 
unfortunately go down the recast

73
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:30,480
a route, you know, I'd love not 
to have done. 

74
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:37,520
There is also there's the chap, 
what's the guy that does a lot 

75
00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:42,800
of alternative sculpts. 
He's just lost his website and 

76
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,280
got it back on. 
Oh, you're talking about one of 

77
00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:47,640
the guys in the UK there that 
made. 

78
00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,680
Yeah, yeah. 
And then there's American Guy as

79
00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,040
well, and they've got a set of 
definitely not hearing it. 

80
00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,160
It's quite suitable. 
I, I just want to yeah, because 

81
00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:57,360
I had the bulk of it being 
original. 

82
00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,440
I wanted it to all match. 
But like that is an option as 

83
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,480
well as you can't get hold of 
the plastics and you've got the,

84
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,720
you know, got the pocket change.
Go and buy the, the, the 

85
00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,320
alternatives. 
So they are out there. 

86
00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,520
And so, yeah, basically got this
point now where I've got 

87
00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:14,760
essentially I can fill two of 
pretty much every card from the 

88
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,160
book other than Titans. 
I always struggle with Titans 

89
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,079
for some reason. 
That's why loving Titan, you 

90
00:04:19,079 --> 00:04:20,720
know, Titans, the whole origin 
story of John. 

91
00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,960
But for some reason I never seem
to have that many times in my 

92
00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,840
collection. 
But yeah, so I've built, built 

93
00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:30,200
and primed 2 of everything and 
for the Tyranids. 

94
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,280
So I've been working on that. 
I was just about to start 

95
00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:35,080
painting when we decided to put 
the house on the market. 

96
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,160
So I've not painted a single 
Tyranids yet. 

97
00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,240
But we we got it all built, we 
got it all painted, we got it 

98
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,480
all based. 
Started playing with it. 

99
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,840
In terms of other hobby, I've 
been really cracking on with my 

100
00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:48,720
orcs and goblins. 
So my 4th edition fantasy Orcs 

101
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:51,600
and Goblins, I finished 1000 
points. 

102
00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:54,680
Night Goblins fully painted now.
So the squig hoppers and the 

103
00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:56,160
squig herders were the last 
units to go. 

104
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:57,800
They're all done, which has been
brilliant. 

105
00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:00,560
So now I need to go back and 
like finish the other half of 

106
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,560
the units of orcs and then I'll 
be at 2000 points. 

107
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:03,880
So that's really good. 
So I'm probably about, yeah, 

108
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:05,880
1500 points of orcs and goblins 
now, which is awesome. 

109
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:13,440
I have assembled, cleaned up and
started painting a high off army

110
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:18,120
because this is like my 30th 
year, 30 years of Warhammer. 

111
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,400
And then, you know, in 
celebration of 4th edition Age 

112
00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,280
of Sigma coming out, I decided I
wanted to refight the 4th 

113
00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,920
edition Warhammer box from 30 
years ago. 

114
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,880
That was kind of part of my 
origin in the hobby. 

115
00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:29,720
So yeah, all the goblins are 
done now. 

116
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,160
Actually, that's not true. 
I've still got to paint the the 

117
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,320
wizard on wife and that's the 
one thing I was shaming on wife 

118
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,440
and I've not done him. 
But otherwise, all the orcs and 

119
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,320
goblins done done Grom done the 
rock lover. 

120
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,720
And I've started working on the 
high elves now. 

121
00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,680
So I've done 10 spam and so far 
and I'd like to try and get that

122
00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,200
done by the end of the year. 
But then I got distracted and 

123
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,040
bought a bunch of troll slayers.
And now I'm building troll 

124
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,400
slayers because as ever, I have 
this bad habit of just jumping 

125
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,840
from project to project. 
And in about two weeks ago I 

126
00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:57,040
was, you know, tidying boxes up 
because we had another house 

127
00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,360
viewing and I had a slim each 
Titan warlord that I assembled. 

128
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,680
Again, I believe that was from 
stubs. 

129
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,760
I'm pretty sure some of the 
parts were definitely from stubs

130
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,600
and I was just like, this can't 
keep rattling around in pieces 

131
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,160
of this box. 
So I just randomly paid for 

132
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,400
these warlords just because it 
was in front of me and almost 

133
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,400
ready to go. 
So yeah, it's been a real kind 

134
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:19,480
of like as ever, the the kind of
the the chaotic approach I have 

135
00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,200
to hobby. 
Like I'm not very disciplined in

136
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:22,880
terms of getting any consistent 
thing done. 

137
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,160
I just like to paint a unit 
here, Paint a unit here. 

138
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,160
It's good that I'm now getting 
to the point where I can feel 

139
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:29,600
the fully paid Orkin goblin 
army. 

140
00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,000
I would like to do more of the 
oh, that was the other thing as 

141
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:33,440
well. 
I built and played a bunch of 

142
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,680
second edition 40K. 
So it's building a bunch of 

143
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,600
second edition orcs as well. 
So it really is just like it's, 

144
00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:40,680
it's chaos, man. 
Like I just. 

145
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:43,640
Well, the 2nd edition. 
How how about you? 

146
00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,240
Sorry. 
The the 2nd edition project I 

147
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,520
didn't know about so. 
Oh yeah, it was spare of a spur 

148
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,920
of the moment thing like I so it
was just before we moved to 

149
00:06:53,920 --> 00:07:01,360
Kent, so about seven years ago 
somebody was selling a really 

150
00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,760
good set of second edition orcs,
40K orcs. 

151
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,240
And I love the metal sculpts. 
I love the, you know, the Kev 

152
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,880
second edition army and 
technically Rogue Trader army I 

153
00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,800
suppose if you think about it. 
And so I added up what I wanted 

154
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,360
from it and it was like more 
than if I just bought the whole 

155
00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,120
lot off the guy because he was 
all split down. 

156
00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:21,760
But this is what I want. 
I was like, I added up actually,

157
00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,240
I might as well just buy the 
whole lot. 

158
00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,960
Sam then went ballistic because 
I bought this army literally as 

159
00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,040
we're about to be moving house, 
you know how it is. 

160
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,240
And then this this incredible 
box of and it was really good. 

161
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,560
It was like there was a lot in 
there was a lot in there. 

162
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,640
And so, you know, I I sold off 
some of the Rogue Trader stuff, 

163
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,480
not because I didn't love it, 
but just because I wanted that 

164
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,280
kind of like a pure second 
edition vibe. 

165
00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:47,600
So I got a little bit of the 
money back. 

166
00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,560
But yeah, so I've had this box 
of, of second edition orcs 

167
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:52,960
kicking around. 
I've I've built like a little 

168
00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,640
squad here, a little squad here.
And I was like, I really like, I

169
00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:01,080
really want to start playing 
second edition and 3rd slash 4th

170
00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,720
edition, to be honest. 
Like I've been playing 8th and 

171
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,360
9th and it just doesn't do it 
for me. 

172
00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,600
So I'm like, I'm just going back
to the games I know and love. 

173
00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,520
So, yeah, we just, we started 
playing because Sam's been 

174
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,160
cracking on with her no goal 
army. 

175
00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,720
And so, yeah, we did some, you 
know, noble noble Death Guard 

176
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,120
versus Orcs in second edition. 
And, and like we played 500 

177
00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,160
points, I think 40K second edge 
drawings of that kind of 500 to 

178
00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,120
1000 points. 
Like I was chatting to some 

179
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:28,760
friends yesterday and they're 
like, yeah, we still, you know, 

180
00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,640
put like massive armies down and
play two turns and give up. 

181
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,240
And I'm like, yeah, it turns out
like playing army scale Second 

182
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,240
edition was like the apocalypse 
of its day. 

183
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,039
You don't play big games. 
You keep to that kind of like 

184
00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:40,880
1000 point level. 
And then it's quite nice. 

185
00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:42,880
It's quite contained much beyond
that. 

186
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:45,480
It starts to get it's, you know,
it's that resolve in combat on a

187
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,520
one-on-one basis. 
It really starts to take time. 

188
00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,320
But yeah, I just, you know, as 
ever, I just, I wish I had, you 

189
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,080
know, less work and more more 
time because I'd be cracking on 

190
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:56,720
with them for sure. 
So I've built a bunch of Golfs, 

191
00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,960
built all the artillery because 
you can't have the artillery. 

192
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,080
I'd already built a load of 
bikers and and you know, 

193
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,520
vehicles for Gorka Morka, which 
again is kind of that was what I

194
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:05,720
saw. 
I sold all the road trade 

195
00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,640
vehicles because I had all the 
Gorka Morka ones. 

196
00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,760
And whilst maybe the metal ones 
are a bit nicer, it does suit 

197
00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,720
that second edition 5 doesn't 
it, having all those kind of the

198
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,800
plastic vehicles. 
And I think, you know, the war 

199
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,160
buggy still looks incredible. 
I think that's yeah, maybe the 

200
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,320
crew aged a little bit weirdly, 
but like the buggy still looks 

201
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,880
amazing. 
So yeah, I've got a really good 

202
00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,720
mix. 
You know, I've got, I can 

203
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:37,840
basically filled 1 squad from 
every clan give or take, you 

204
00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,520
know, big, big mob, 2020 Golfs, 
you know, loads of skull boys, 

205
00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:46,280
loads of knobs in there. 
You know, it's everything you'd 

206
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,760
expect. 
Everyone always had like a unit 

207
00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,280
of death skull looters rather 
than death skulls. 

208
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,680
Everyone had a unit of evil 
sons, bikers rather than evil 

209
00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:54,880
sons. 
So yeah, you know, the Goths are

210
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,080
very much the foot side of it. 
And then all the funky units get

211
00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,680
to be the exciting different 
clans. 

212
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,360
And the one thing I have got 
like I haven't built yet is an 

213
00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:06,440
absolute boatload of ball boys. 
I'm like, oh, I could probably 

214
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,080
do a squad, like I could do 2 
squads, one on side balls and 

215
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,400
one on normal balls. 
So that's going to be fun when I

216
00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,640
finally get around to that. 
And a big mob on foot as well. 

217
00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,040
So the the snake bites are 
always that weirdest. 

218
00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,400
Like it's the clan that I never 
use in Epic and it's the clan 

219
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,240
that I've never really used in 
40K, but I really want to get 

220
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,520
into it now just because that's 
so cool. 

221
00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,520
Like it's you know, it's not 
like dislike the snake bites. 

222
00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,240
So it's just they're so weirdly 
different because of the ball 

223
00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,600
boy angle. 
It's like a whole extra step. 

224
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,720
So yeah, yeah, I've been like, 
I'm definitely on my, you know, 

225
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,280
nostalgia hammer. 
And I think it's just that 

226
00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:41,400
point. 
You just get to that point where

227
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,760
you're like, I'm not, you know, 
I'm playing the new Age of 

228
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:46,880
Sigma. 
It's fine. 

229
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,920
But I'm like, you know, it would
be better if this was just 5th 

230
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,480
edition Warhammer. 
And that's the problem. 

231
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,880
This is great, but this is even 
better. 

232
00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,320
So yeah, you know, it's our age 
talking. 

233
00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:00,840
It's nostalgia, whatever, 
whatever. 

234
00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,240
Like, but it is just, you know, 
those, you know, those 

235
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,800
experiences that you and I kind 
of grew up on, you know, your 

236
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,120
second edition Epic, your 4th 
edition Warhammer, your second 

237
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:14,160
edition 40K, they're not 
perfect. 

238
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,440
They're bloody good fun. 
And I mean, that's just, that's 

239
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,080
where I'm at now. 
You know, me and Sam, we just, 

240
00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,000
we like to play. 
I've got enough of a collection 

241
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,040
now that I can, you know, I hate
that I can feel a lot of 

242
00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,280
different things and a lot of 
different games don't have kids.

243
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:27,640
That's the that's the secret 
trick. 

244
00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,600
Like my tricks are, why have I 
got so much warhammers? 

245
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,480
I never had kids. 
And yeah, I just, you know, and 

246
00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:34,320
it's that weird thing. 
And, you know, we saw it a bit 

247
00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,160
through COVID as well as I think
of like we're all at the point 

248
00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,840
in our life where we've probably
got enough disposable income to 

249
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,000
finally get to live the dream. 
We always wanted his kids. 

250
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,600
So this is like, you know, when 
I was a kid, I had a dark out 

251
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,240
for me and that that was it. 
Now I'm an adult, I can have all

252
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:48,920
the other armies that I wanted 
as well. 

253
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,360
Should I have the other armies? 
That's a different question, but

254
00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,880
I can. 
And yeah, it's just it's that 

255
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,720
ability to be like, you know, I 
always wanted to. 

256
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:57,920
So the thing I'm working on at 
the moment, why I'm doing these 

257
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,320
Dwarfs now in these High elves, 
is I really want to work 

258
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,000
through, you know, the grudge of
Drong. 

259
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,280
I want to work through the one 
that was in the White Dwarf, the

260
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:07,800
Orkin goblin versus Dark Elf 
one. 

261
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:09,400
I'm really looking forward to 
that. 

262
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,640
And it's just these, yeah, these
linked, linked game campaigns, 

263
00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,720
four games, a little bit of 
terrain. 

264
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,040
Actually, I think it was 3 for 
the dark. 

265
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,600
Was it 3 or was it 4 turning up 
on the beach? 

266
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:22,000
Yeah, you told me about that 
one. 

267
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,760
Yeah, it's really good ones. 
Yeah, it's fun on the beach to 

268
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,640
light the fire fight at the 
shaman's heart to get the shaman

269
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,840
to join your army. 
Yeah, No, it's four. 

270
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:31,800
Yeah. 
Then there's the defence and 

271
00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:32,880
then there's the final fight in 
the village. 

272
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:34,120
Yeah. 
So they're all like these, these

273
00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,560
really, you know, four linked 
campaigns and each campaign 

274
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:39,400
games and each one like affects 
the next one. 

275
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,200
And yeah, like, you know, 
obviously they, they boxed them 

276
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,760
up with with Grudge Drong and 
Idle of Gorg Love to do Idle 

277
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,720
Gorg. 
I sold my Empire army and I'm 

278
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,480
like, maybe when the Empire 
comes back for Old World, I can 

279
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,760
do Idle of Gorg. 
But yeah, it's just, it's the, 

280
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,960
you know, you've read, you've 
read them in the White Dwarf. 

281
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:57,560
And like, you know, I've been 
reading through the the kind of 

282
00:12:57,560 --> 00:12:59,480
they did the battle report where
they fought through the entirety

283
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,560
of the graduate drawing. 
And I'm like, yeah, I can, I can

284
00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:03,880
do that soon. 
Like, so yeah, it's that kind of

285
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,360
thing of like all those things 
that you're like, man, that was 

286
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,840
awesome when I was in my teens. 
Now I'm like, well, now I'm in 

287
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,320
my 40s, I can do is. 
So you take 30 years to finish 

288
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:14,680
that arc. 
It's no bother. 

289
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:16,560
Yeah. 
Good retirement. 

290
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:17,840
Yeah. 
Yeah, that's it. 

291
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:19,160
Fine, yeah, but how about you, 
man? 

292
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,680
What have you been working on? 
Well, not an awful lot for 

293
00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:24,120
myself and been doing a lot of 
commissions. 

294
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,640
Of course three of the LED 
studios. 

295
00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:31,240
So now I'm working on A to zinch
40K chaos army for card effects 

296
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,200
which I'm really enjoying that 
like painting all the old pink 

297
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,760
and blue horror models that 
Kevin that's the one with. 

298
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:39,520
The big fingers. 
Yep, those ones. 

299
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:40,920
Proper metals, yeah, I love 
those. 

300
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,000
Ones yeah and the flamers are 
from like 4th edition. 

301
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,520
So they're the ones that are 
like mushrooms with bird beaks. 

302
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,680
That's the ones. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

303
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:52,320
They're quite. 
They're pretty cool, yeah. 

304
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,920
Mix up a bit of contrast medium 
with paints and inks and stuff 

305
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,960
like that, using those to paint 
those quickly and effectively. 

306
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:00,520
It's been good. 
It's been a good little 

307
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,120
challenge, and I've been looking
forward to that. 

308
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:06,000
And then doing the Greater 
Demon, of course, for that as 

309
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,320
well, and just painting some 
really cool old Jess Goodwin 

310
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,760
1000 Sun models. 
He's got the whole squad of 

311
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,120
those and some of the sorcerers 
that came out in second edition.

312
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:17,800
So it's been a lot of fun doing 
that so far. 

313
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,040
And before that I did, I wrapped
up the massive Chaos Dwarf army 

314
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:26,200
that you may have seen on 
Instagram, those photos I did of

315
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,240
each of the units. 
So yeah, that's for Gordon, my 

316
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,680
good friend Gordon in Scotland, 
and he's got them. 

317
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:32,200
He got it there in two days 
time, mate. 

318
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,160
I sent it out on a Monday here 
in Japan. 

319
00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,720
He got there on Wednesday, 2 
days. 

320
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,640
So, so, so relieved that he got 
it there safely and everything 

321
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,040
was fine. 
Only a couple of scratches on 

322
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,240
the bases, you know, I mean, 
that's the. 

323
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,080
Fear, isn't it? 
You put stuff in the post and 

324
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,920
you're like just have to pray to
the gods that this comes out the

325
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,160
other side like and Gorks 
angels, you've been carried. 

326
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:54,880
You've been doing some some bat 
reps. 

327
00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,120
I've seen some cool bat reps out
of you. 

328
00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,480
Yeah, yeah, we've I've got, 
yeah, I'm, I'm editing another 

329
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,560
one for one of fantasy next. 
But I did the 2nd edition Orcs 

330
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,920
versus Squats. 
It was released a couple of days

331
00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,760
ago, about 3 days ago now. 
I don't know if you've seen it, 

332
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:11,160
but. 
I've not seen that one yet. 

333
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,680
No, I watched your you did the 
goblin high elf attack on the 

334
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,560
tower and you've been you've 
been working through the tears 

335
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,400
of Isha, haven't you? 
I've been watching them as well.

336
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,160
So it's duck UPS high elves, 
that campaign pack. 

337
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,080
So yeah, like I've not caught 
the 40K1 yet. 

338
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,080
I didn't see no, you had the two
two friends came over and played

339
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,600
40K, didn't they? 
Or yeah. 

340
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,800
That's right, it was Nick and 
Paul playing 40 KC in edition. 

341
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,640
Then after that we we played one
Renaissance with the cows 

342
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,920
dwarves against my dwarves. 
That was a really good, fun 

343
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,520
game. 
I haven't finished editing that,

344
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,360
of course. 
That's the next. 

345
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,080
Tell me about Warhammer 
Renaissance because I've joined 

346
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:42,440
the group. 
But that's that's not quite 

347
00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,560
Warhammer right? 
That's Warhammer with some 

348
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:47,760
edits. 
It's basically 4th edition 

349
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,560
that's been edited and it's been
it's like a revision of 4th 

350
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,480
edition. 
Sure, an awful, but it's. 

351
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,040
A fan. 
It's like a fan edit, isn't it? 

352
00:15:56,040 --> 00:16:00,200
It's a fan edit thing, yeah. 
So I just Nick interviewed 

353
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,680
Boulder about it in second like 
22 podcasts ago. 

354
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,200
So listen to that mate with the 
interview with the oh check. 

355
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,480
It out. 
Awesome essence and check it out

356
00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:12,960
and yeah, I would honestly 
recommend anybody to have a look

357
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:14,520
at it. 
I mean, when I get to play it, 

358
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,520
it's I'm effectively playing 4th
edition fantasy, which is my 

359
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,640
favorite edition, you know, with
a bit of 5th edition mixed in 

360
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:26,080
there with a bit of a smattering
of other editions that have. 

361
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,800
He's put little rules in here or
there. 

362
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,920
He's changed things enough that 
it's, it's its own thing. 

363
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,680
But obviously it's it's DNA is 
in 4th edition. 

364
00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,680
The magic system obviously is 
all 4th edition magic, so both 

365
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,800
both get both players get to 
cast magic in their own in each.

366
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,120
Frame OK, interesting yeah that 
was always that interesting 

367
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,440
switch yeah 4th where everyone 
just gets to cast all the time 

368
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:51,240
to fit where it's like you only 
cast in your own and it was 

369
00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,880
always that you know it was that
we need to tone down magic 

370
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,760
because if you can get a Level 3
spell off you're kind of on your

371
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,360
way to winning. 
It was an interesting change but

372
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,680
like there was something yeah 
but like the madness 4th edition

373
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,400
magic where just stuff is 
kicking off and it's really 

374
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,000
interesting like I really I mean
I'm I'm sure I don't think 

375
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,280
they've ever confirmed this but 
like I'm pretty adamant that 

376
00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,680
like if you look at age of Sigma
with the what they called 

377
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,440
manifestation spells like 
endless spells. 

378
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:27,000
That's what these call them like
I am sure that is taking the the

379
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,360
4th edition thing with all the 
templates like, you know this 

380
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,160
was black horror and being like 
oh we don't do a couple 

381
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:32,600
templates anymore. 
Let's just turn it into a 

382
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,720
miniature like you know because 
spells really went away from 

383
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,560
like, you know lingering effects
and templates to just do a thing

384
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,200
is you know 5 balls D6 and this 
was black horror D6 to like Oh 

385
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,960
no now we're going to have it 
back and it's going to stay on 

386
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:47,080
the table and it's going to you 
know. 

387
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,040
It's not just going to be done, 
resolved and off we go. 

388
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,720
And I'm not I just feel like 
that is such a throwback. 

389
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,000
And that's, you know, that's why
I really do still enjoy like GW 

390
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,560
games where they do they do pay 
homage to the past in quite a 

391
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:01,960
nice way. 
And you see things like that. 

392
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:06,320
And I mean, you know, look at 
Legion imperialist. 

393
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,120
It's like that is mostly second 
edition epic. 

394
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:16,480
And when they when they redid 
apocalypse for like 3 editions 

395
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,040
of 40K ago, maybe I was reading 
the book like, yeah, this is 

396
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,280
this is just epic space marine 
that you've basically turned 

397
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,040
into a 40K scale game. 
So it is nice when you see those

398
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,800
like, like concepts from the 
past get kind of passed through 

399
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,800
the modern filter and then 
reintroduce into a game. 

400
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,480
You know, that's really cute. 
I know where that's come from. 

401
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,600
And I really like that you've 
reintroduced it because it was, 

402
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,600
you know, one of the reasons I 
left, you know, the GW sphere 

403
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,360
and went off the war machine for
so long was that like, I missed 

404
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:46,840
the the kind of the granularity 
of of Epic and 40K like, yeah, 

405
00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,160
yeah, I get to shoot the arm off
of a Titan and now I can't find 

406
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:51,200
that gun. 
Any like that. 

407
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,480
That level of detail was really,
really exciting fun. 

408
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,040
And that kind of went away for a
bit. 

409
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,200
And so it's nice to see concepts
like that coming back. 

410
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,880
Just makes the games just feel 
like just a little bit cooler. 

411
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,400
Right? 
Like, it's, it's that it's that 

412
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,040
layer of personality and detail 
where it's not you're not just 

413
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,520
moving, you know, tokens and 
randomly rolling dice. 

414
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,440
It's like no, no, no, this is 
this is my Terminator and old 

415
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,600
God, he's at his last cannon 
show off and you know, and now 

416
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,520
he's got a name and now he's got
a back story. 

417
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,880
Like that's that's like apex 
wargaming to me, as opposed to 

418
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,320
just a very like like, you know,
it's really interesting. 

419
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,400
You look at where wargaming in 
general is going and GW in 

420
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,160
particular, you can see that 
they're trying to bring it into 

421
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,600
this kind of pseudo esports 
mentality and you know, you 

422
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,920
understand why it's you've got 
to reach out to the younger 

423
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:34,920
crowd. 
You got to reach out to 

424
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,520
different audiences. 
You know, us all gifts aren't 

425
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:41,800
going to be around forever, and 
I get that, but it it does take 

426
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,640
some of the personality out of 
the game. 

427
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,640
And you know, like Ash from 
gorilla always talks about this 

428
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,120
idea of like, you know, 
scenarios now, you know, go and 

429
00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:51,480
stand in a circle and press a 
button and there's not really an

430
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,360
exciting narrative. 
Like, yeah, you can spin it as 

431
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:55,240
like, oh, they're activating a 
computer or they're downloading 

432
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,840
follow wherever it is. 
You can do that, but it does 

433
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,600
feel a little bit clean. 
And E sports he doesn't have 

434
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,880
like, you know, are they 
fighting a battle or are they 

435
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,800
just trying to because it's like
going to go and doing a job or 

436
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,280
something like that. 
It's this weird like. 

437
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,120
Like it, it doesn't quite build 
the same stories as these, you 

438
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:13,920
know, these. 
And I don't know, like, I don't 

439
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:15,760
know what the difference is 
because let's face it, we didn't

440
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,440
even have scenarios. 
In fact, it was just line up and

441
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,360
run at each other and smack each
other in the face. 

442
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:21,000
But like, it was good enough for
us, right? 

443
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,640
It's like with classic dwarves, 
like, oh, back in my day, that 

444
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,800
was all good. 
Like, we didn't need silly 

445
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,200
complicated scenarios. 
So I don't know, like, people 

446
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,520
probably tell them, tell me I'm 
wrong. 

447
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,720
They usually do. 
But yeah, I don't know. 

448
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,280
That was a weird tangent. 
Who knows? 

449
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,120
John's going to go off on a 
weird tangent because we started

450
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:39,880
talking about painting. 
No, a bit like the the 5th 

451
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,160
edition gave you a great 
asymmetrical lineup of battles 

452
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:49,520
where they were not evenly lined
up points wide group choices 

453
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:54,160
were not, you know, to your to 
your beck and call. 

454
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:55,680
It was like basically, this is 
what you got. 

455
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,600
You got to deal with what the 
situation. 

456
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,000
Is. 
And if you watch. 

457
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,960
My and that's like, that's 
really fun because, you know, 

458
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,440
pitch battles always great. 
It's an easy way to line up and 

459
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,280
fight. 
But like there's only so many 

460
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,200
times you can do those pitch 
battles before you're like, no, 

461
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,560
OK, no, we know how pitch 
battles work. 

462
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,920
So being able to be like right 
now, we remix it now we do do 

463
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,680
something different. 
Now what happens when it is that

464
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:17,400
like that? 
Like you did it, didn't you? 

465
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,840
The half dark elf like yeah, the
the heroic last stand, the high 

466
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,520
offs know that they're dead. 
They're dead. 

467
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,160
Elves walk in, but if they can 
hold that line long enough that 

468
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,720
comrades will benefit in the 
next battle. 

469
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,360
So it's not about winning, it's 
about losing with the most 

470
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:36,000
advantage to your fella. 
And like that's that's that's 

471
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,760
war, isn't it? 
You know, war isn't an even line

472
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,760
up and fight game. 
It is a a game of finding 

473
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,200
advantage and stuff. 
So yeah, you know, like I think 

474
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,000
maybe that's that that arc of a 
game. 

475
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,920
And when you start out, you are 
like pitch, battle, pitch 

476
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,800
battle, pitch, battle. 
And you know, maybe now they're 

477
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,600
kind of the modern equipment of 
that is tournament gamer, 

478
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,720
tournament gamer or like PvP 
game, competitive game away, if 

479
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,760
you want to call it. 
And then maybe there comes a 

480
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:59,400
point where you're like, OK, and
I think that was me. 

481
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,960
You know, I did, I did War 
Machine tournaments, OK, 

482
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,280
eventually leveled up from 
playing in them to running them.

483
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,120
But like that competitive like 
that was War Machine. 

484
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,240
We did that for a decade and 
then you kind of go, OK, I've 

485
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:11,320
done that. 
Now I've kind of got out of my 

486
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,800
system. 
What else can I do with this? 

487
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,480
Oh, I can play these narrative 
games. 

488
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,880
I can play these stories where 
the point is you and I are here 

489
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,960
to tell a story and the victory 
doesn't matter because there's 

490
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,360
nothing at stake other than 
what's the fun story we can 

491
00:22:24,360 --> 00:22:25,920
tell? 
What cool grudges can we build? 

492
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,800
What cool like memories are we 
going to make and characters are

493
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:30,840
we going to develop? 
And then how do we then carry 

494
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,960
that through into future gaming?
And like, you know, to be clear,

495
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,920
neither is wrong. 
I think that's the one thing 

496
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,320
that people, the mistakes that 
people make on the Internet is 

497
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,120
there's this assumption that if 
I like something, anybody who 

498
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:45,160
likes something else is wrong. 
Well, that's not the case. 

499
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,240
Is everyone's looking for their 
slice of the pie. 

500
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,440
And certainly, you know, as you 
and I can probably attest to, 

501
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:52,640
haven't been doing this for 
longer than perhaps we should 

502
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,320
admit, like your interest will 
evolve over time and maybe it 

503
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,280
will change And you know, maybe 
at some point you're in a hobby 

504
00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:59,840
space and then you're in a 
competitive space and then 

505
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,840
you're in a narrative space. 
And that's good, That's normal. 

506
00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,200
That's to be expected. 
That's part of this adventure. 

507
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,680
And just hope you've got like 
minded people. 

508
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,280
Like the only bit that where 
struggles is when two people 

509
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,960
come to the table with different
expectations. 

510
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,360
That's when you get that, that 
that kind of friction and it's a

511
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:19,000
real shame. 
And that's where, you know, I 

512
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,480
guess rule 0 and Magic gathering
the idea of like, let's have a 

513
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,040
conversation. 
Let's explain what we both want 

514
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,440
on. 
And then once you know that and 

515
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,280
you know, it's really 
interesting. 

516
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:34,560
I was listening to the Jugs 
podcast, so I was listening to 

517
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,400
Louise, Rob and peachy talking 
and they were, you know, Louise 

518
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,320
was talking about oh, no, sorry,
no, it was actually it was her. 

519
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,440
It was her channel, wasn't it? 
She was talking about going to 

520
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,760
the age of Sigma worlds and you 
know, this whole thing about the

521
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,400
gamers or they're going to be a 
bit too hammer heady. 

522
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,320
And then she was saying 
actually, you know, everyone was

523
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,240
there had a great time, everyone
was in there really enjoying it.

524
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:55,960
I've been to the war machine 
worlds. 

525
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,400
I judge painting and provided 
terrain and did some stuff at 

526
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,920
the War machine worlds and it's 
that same thing where everyone 

527
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,560
there was having a great time 
and that was because they all 

528
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,280
went there knowing we're here to
play competitive war machine. 

529
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,960
So the games are going to be 
they're going to be hot. 

530
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:12,640
You know, it's the quote UN 
quote best players in the world 

531
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,560
competing at the highest quote 
UN quote level. 

532
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,560
It's all toy soldiers. 
None of it's that serious, but 

533
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,520
you know what I mean? 
But because they knew that 

534
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,920
because they'd gone to worlds to
play competitive war machine, it

535
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,960
means they could leave all that 
on the table so they could play,

536
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:26,000
you know, serious game. 
War Machine have a very, you 

537
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,600
know, very, very tight 
competitive, competitive game 

538
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,360
where the results really 
mattered. 

539
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,080
But the minute that game's over,
you leave that on the table and 

540
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,520
then you just mates and that was
what you know, that's so that 

541
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,880
what I'm trying to illustrate 
that point is you can be 

542
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,120
competitive and still be fun. 
I'm not saying competitive is 

543
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:43,800
bad. 
What I'm saying is you have to 

544
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,720
know, it's like everyone has to 
know the stakes. 

545
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,880
And so if that's the stakes and 
you will agree that you can have

546
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,480
a great time if you and me get 
together to play through a 

547
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,040
campaign pack and we know we're 
just there to tell that story. 

548
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,120
We have a great time. 
If you're down the club with 

549
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:57,120
your mates and you're like, can 
we just have a pick up game? 

550
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,200
Can we not make this super 
comfy? 

551
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,440
I don't want to fight, you know,
like a super overtuned, super 

552
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,280
hardcore list today. 
Can we do something a little bit

553
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:06,360
fluffy? 
Can we put some of those 

554
00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:08,280
restrictions in from the 
scenarios you were saying? 

555
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,200
Like, who knew that, like 
conversation and consent are the

556
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,320
rules, like go from some weird 
places there. 

557
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,080
But like, yeah, like having 
those conversations and making 

558
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,880
sure that everyone's on the same
page so that you can like, 

559
00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:23,080
because that's the hard part 
about this hobby. 

560
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,840
You know, the great thing about 
painting is that any person 

561
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:26,880
needs to enjoy the painting is 
you because it's you painting it

562
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,880
for you. 
The minute you get two people in

563
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,720
the room and there's an element 
of competition, even in the, you

564
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,600
know, the cashless, fluffiest, 
funniest game, there's still 

565
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,840
that risk. 
And, you know, I, I joke about 

566
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:38,520
it a lot. 
Like I, you know, at work, I'm, 

567
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,720
I'm on record. 
Like Chris has literally gone on

568
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,920
podcast and quote me. 
Like I always sort of. 

569
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,360
And it's, it's both a joke and a
not joke, which is, you know, in

570
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:47,480
a war game, two people come to 
the table. 

571
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,680
One of them has a good time, the
other one loses. 

572
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,880
And like, that's not true. 
That's a very like, that's a 

573
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,440
classic John slightly tongue in 
cheek comment. 

574
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,960
Like everything I say, I say 
with tongue firmly planted in 

575
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,560
cheek. 
But there is an element of that.

576
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,040
And certainly with War Machine, 
which was so competitive that, 

577
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,680
you know, more and more. 
And maybe that was partly why I 

578
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,040
ended up running stuff rather 
than playing and stuff because I

579
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,760
got like, I just got tired of 
like, you know, win or lose, it 

580
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:16,120
didn't matter. 
It's just the, the, the mindset 

581
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:20,040
you had to be in to play that 
game wasn't necessarily always 

582
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,760
fun, which again, might be why 
I've reverted back to playing 

583
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,840
older games that are a little 
bit sillier and a little bit 

584
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,280
like Woolly around the edges 
where you can play in the 

585
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,200
margins a little bit more. 
But yeah, I, you know, I don't 

586
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,040
know, I'm rambling again. 
I'm off on a John's 

587
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,600
philosophical conversation, but 
it's just, you know what you 

588
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:38,520
will make. 
Sure. 

589
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,000
Everyone having a good time. 
I like a bit of variety. 

590
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,160
I like a bit of competitive 
play. 

591
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,000
I like a bit of narrative play. 
You know, I like, I like board 

592
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,520
gaming, I like playing 
cooperative board games. 

593
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,720
I enjoy those very, very much 
like head to head board games as

594
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,000
well. 
Yeah. 

595
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,640
You know, the spice, spice of 
life in gaming is very 

596
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,920
important. 
Absolutely every bit every bit 

597
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,920
of you know, I like to go to a 
our games days and we are, you 

598
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:04,680
know, people are playing to win,
but of course, having a good 

599
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,680
time. 
There's nothing massively at 

600
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,920
stake. 
Maybe your ego if anything. 

601
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,400
But yeah, we we always go there 
with the right, right mentality,

602
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,120
right attitude to play, play 
some games with our friends, 

603
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:17,840
have a great time. 
And if you win, great. 

604
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,880
If you lose, you know, it 
doesn't really matter. 

605
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,200
You know, no one's going to get 
sore over that as long as you're

606
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,360
having a good time and you're 
you're playing in the right 

607
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,040
spirit. 
So yeah, but I, yeah. 

608
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,120
But at the same time, I like to 
just sit around playing Talisman

609
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:33,720
just doing something very 
random, you know, just there's 

610
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,240
no control over anything. 
The. 

611
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,440
Snakes and ladders of whatever. 
And that's, that's fun, too. 

612
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,600
We're about to get get underway 
with her request again. 

613
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:43,640
You know, cool. 
Yeah. 

614
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,240
Which I absolutely I still think
it's one of the greatest dungeon

615
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,840
crawling board games ever made, 
even though there's been 1000 

616
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,440
predecessors and to all that and
they try to replicate the the 

617
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,080
magic and formula to your 
request. 

618
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,320
But I think there's something so
beautiful about the simplicity 

619
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:03,200
of the game and the fun. 
Are you? 

620
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,560
Playing the original or this new
remake from? 

621
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,200
The original mate. 
Yeah, I want my, I want my for 

622
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,920
me. 
I don't want sure seamen or 

623
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,400
whatever they are nowadays. 
Not to knock it. 

624
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,400
I think it's a great, great. 
You know, when I went to 

625
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,320
Australia, I looked up at the 
this is a Toy World store, which

626
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,360
really surprised me because I 
thought these things were going 

627
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:24,560
like the dinosaurs. 
But there was one there in the 

628
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,520
in the in the shopping mall, 
quite a large one too, and and 

629
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,920
had a massive board game 
selection there and right at the

630
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,840
top there it was here requests 
and I thought that's that's 

631
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,200
excellent because that's how I 
found that's how I discovered 

632
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,400
miniature painting and and ball 
gaming. 

633
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,600
I found it through here request.
So you know, it's nice to see a 

634
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:51,360
miniature centric board game out
there because there's not that 

635
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,880
many. 
There's a lot of sort of chip 

636
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,240
and counter, you know, little 
Maple type games out there. 

637
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,920
So it's nice to have sort of a, 
you know, a miniature based 

638
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,200
board game that people can 
experience and play fantasy with

639
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,040
because yeah, there's there's 
pretty slim pickings in terms of

640
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,120
like big commercial games like 
that you. 

641
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,560
Know commercially definitely 
like there's you know you can't 

642
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,320
move for Kickstarter's of like 
here you go here's you know 

643
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,000
lifetime's worth of PVC pre 
assemble figures but you kind of

644
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,400
they're always like you've 
already God be in the no to no 

645
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,680
kind of thing and I think what's
so yeah what's so interesting 

646
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,400
about hero quest is it was and 
now it turns out from what you 

647
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,040
said continues to be sold 
through toy shops it wasn't like

648
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,640
you had to go to a specialist 
Warhammer store or a specialist 

649
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,360
local game store it was you know
I used to see it in the Argos 

650
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:38,680
catalogue. 
I used to see it when I went 

651
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,080
down to the local like Rainbows 
was our local toy shop and 

652
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:42,560
they'd have it on the shelves 
there. 

653
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,880
And so it was. 
And again, this is this is the 

654
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,480
strength of GW. 
Everyone likes to mock GW, but 

655
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,400
the strength of GW is they are 
out there recruiting people like

656
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,760
us coming in and, you know, age 
10/11. 12:13 This is the 

657
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,720
onboarding for so much of like, 
you know, miniature gaming. 

658
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,520
And then maybe eventually you 
get a bit long in tooth and you 

659
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,200
discover other things. 
So like that ability and 

660
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,960
obviously, you know, GW are not 
involved in Hero Quest anymore, 

661
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,000
but it's that same thing of 
like, yeah, you know, some 

662
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,120
little kid walks into a toy 
shop, has never heard of 

663
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,280
Warhammer, but they see Hero 
Quest and they go, oh, that 

664
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,480
looks cool. 
Maybe they've seen Conan the 

665
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:21,960
Barbarian. 
Maybe they watch, you know, 

666
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,520
whatever Saturday morning 
cartoons about fantasy exists 

667
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,160
these days. 
Maybe they've read Lord of the 

668
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,720
Rings, maybe they've seen the 
Lord of the Rings Hobbit, 

669
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,520
whatever it may be. 
Hopefully they've not seen Game 

670
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,320
of Thrones, but who knows in 
this modern age. 

671
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,280
Like, and they're like, oh, that
looks like what? 

672
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:34,760
I know, that looks like The 
Hobbit. 

673
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,960
That looks really cool. 
And then that's they're like, 

674
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,320
oh, miniatures, like you say, 
oh, I can paint these. 

675
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,240
Oh, that's the whole thing I 
didn't even know existed. 

676
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,400
And then let's go on the 
Internet. 

677
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,920
Let's look up, you know, 
miniatures and bam, there's 

678
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,760
Games Workshop, there's, you 
know, whoever else. 

679
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,400
Like it's such an important, 
like feed a product to, to 

680
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,680
introduce the next generation. 
And I think, you know, it's, 

681
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,760
it's really interesting, you 
know, looking at various 

682
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,200
hobbies, looking very nerd 
hobbies and you look at, you 

683
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:07,360
know, model railway building or 
ethics, Crimea planes or scale 

684
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,600
electrics and all these things 
where like are they dying out? 

685
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,120
And it's part of that, you know,
they're all things I love. 

686
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,120
You know, I've got all of those 
in the loft, you know, like 

687
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:18,840
they're all things I love. 
But like, is it is it this thing

688
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,360
where if you don't have that 
easy onboarding and that ability

689
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,200
to bring a new audience in, you,
you your company lasts as long 

690
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,080
as your customer base and your 
customer base is not getting any

691
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,760
younger, you know, we're all 
feeling that. 

692
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:38,680
So yeah, it's a really, it's a 
very interesting thing of is 

693
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:40,600
that the strength of something 
like here request. 

694
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,160
Where is that? 
You know, one box fairly well 

695
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,880
priced, everything he needs in 
there. 

696
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,840
And like you say, it's it's, 
it's and I think Talisman is the

697
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,200
same. 
You know, I, I do take the 

698
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,440
Mickey out of Talisman and I 
call it the snakes and ladders 

699
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,440
of wargaming or Warhammer. 
Like, And then funnily enough, 

700
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,600
we were in a meeting at work the
other day and I'm our head of 

701
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,200
development. 
There's a big Polish board game 

702
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,480
and he said exactly the same 
thing. 

703
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,440
Like we've no, we've never 
spoken about it, But he was 

704
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:04,880
like, oh, Talisman, it's just 
snakes and ladders. 

705
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,560
And I was like, yes, it's not 
just me. 3rd Question of the 

706
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:13,360
month for August 2024 is what 
miniature would you like to own?

707
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,880
Above all else? 
For me it's got to be the Great 

708
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,760
Unclean One from the Citadel 
combat cards of the late 80s and

709
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,440
early 90s. 
A great looking miniature which 

710
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,840
by all accounts weighs about as 
much as a small cannonball. 

711
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,520
I'd love to own it, I'd love to 
paint it, but I imagine they're 

712
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,440
very hard and very expensive to 
come by these days. 

713
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,920
Anyway, tell us about the 
ultimate miniature you would 

714
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,240
like to own by going to 
bedroombattlefields.com/voicemail.

715
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,040
And I need those in by Thursday 
the 29th of August. 

716
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,640
That's bedroom 
battlefields.com/voicemail. 

717
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,720
And now back to the show your. 
Time. 

718
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,800
You just take your time. 
So yeah, we're back again after 

719
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,960
a short break and I hope you 
enjoyed our hobby update. 

720
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,280
Well, from from John, of course,
and it's exciting to hear what 

721
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,120
he's been up to and what he's 
been planning. 

722
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,720
And and now I do remember 
actually, John, you're playing 

723
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:08,160
second edition with Sam. 
I saw those Facebook pictures 

724
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,440
and I saw your epic Slanesh 
Titan. 

725
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,440
It was very cool. 
Tan effects mentioned as well as

726
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,240
well in our chat recently. 
So that's nice mate. 

727
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,440
You're getting some hobby in. 
But today, of course, we're here

728
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,400
to talk about all about Epic 
Hive War, the supplement that 

729
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:30,080
that was released in 1995, 
produced by Andy Chambers, the 

730
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,800
lead designer. 
And and luckily, John, you've 

731
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,080
actually been one of those 
luckily lucky, fortunate people 

732
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:42,280
who actually play it, mate. 
So like just give us kind of a 

733
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:46,280
because we wanted just to give 
kind of an overview of how they 

734
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,360
play an Epic Space Marine 
because they play quite 

735
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,400
differently than other factions.
But if you look through the 

736
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,600
components and look at what 
stuff you get in the box 

737
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,440
already, you can see quite a lot
of stuff that's not really 

738
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,680
familiar with any of the other 
sets that came out, like the hex

739
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,600
based swarm cards and how you 
actually assemble your your 

740
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,800
retinue your your list together.
Mate. 

741
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,880
Did you find that really 
enjoyable putting down, laying 

742
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:14,800
down those? 
Templates, yeah. 

743
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:20,239
I mean, it's it's it's quite fun
because I mean, you know, one of

744
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,159
the reasons I think I've always 
enjoyed second edition Epic 

745
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:26,000
anyway is the tactile nature of 
list building because there is a

746
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,199
physicality to it. 
You know, you place a company 

747
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:31,199
card, you can place up to five 
support cards. 

748
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,960
And this is a different 
variation on that same thing. 

749
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,280
And it's sort of taken even 
further because you have that 

750
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,800
like, you know, Hexaco hexagon 
honeycomb, like element to even 

751
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,239
better where they have to Tesla 
together and there has to be, 

752
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,199
you know, connections between 
the synapses and stuff. 

753
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,480
So it's it's one of those really
things where it's a really fun 

754
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,280
thing to do because it's sort of
like doing a puzzle. 

755
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,280
So you're sort of like 
physically putting pieces out. 

756
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,320
It's telling a story because 
it's telling the story of this 

757
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,159
is the hive mind. 
The hive mind has to come from 

758
00:34:56,159 --> 00:34:58,200
the dominatrix. 
It has to flow out through his 

759
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:59,960
synapse creatures. 
It has to reach everything 

760
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:02,240
within the army to be under 
control. 

761
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,560
So yes, it's that, you know, 
it's always it's always fun when

762
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:13,280
a game manages to hybridize 
gameplay or, you know, mechanic 

763
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,640
and law, and I think this does 
it really nicely. 

764
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,640
So immediately like, oh, that's 
really cool. 

765
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,040
It's different to all the other 
forces and it's really cool 

766
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,160
because it's telling you the 
story of the hive mind and the 

767
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,000
synaptic link. 
So that's very clever. 

768
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,080
So you know, well done, Andy. 
Well done, Jervis. 

769
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:35,240
That's pretty impressive in 
terms of like how you build a 

770
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:37,240
force. 
It definitely raises a couple of

771
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:40,440
interesting questions. 
So you know, we were just 

772
00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:43,880
chatting like I've played most 
of the armies now and what's 

773
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,840
really interesting with the 
Tyranids is they don't quite 

774
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,560
behave like anybody else, which 
is good. 

775
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,240
It's always nice when armies 
feel different. 

776
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:55,640
And what's what's a real 
challenge with the Tyranids is 

777
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,960
they don't have massive 
formations. 

778
00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,960
So the biggest formation for the
Tyranids is the Termagant 

779
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:03,280
stands, which is 10 termagants. 
It's also probably the least 

780
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,440
useful thing in the book. 
Like you, you take a bomb with 

781
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,040
termagants to sit on a backfield
objective and that's all they do

782
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,920
and expect nothing from them. 
They are not going to contribute

783
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,600
to your game. 
Termagant fans don't have me. 

784
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,080
So so that's quite interesting 
where you're like, you know, 

785
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,640
you, you know, you know, the way
you win epic is by breaking 

786
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,520
enemy formations, scoring 
objectives, scoring points. 

787
00:36:25,720 --> 00:36:28,720
And with Tyranids, you're going 
to be giving up a lot of victory

788
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:32,440
points because it's very, very 
easy to break of the majority of

789
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,440
it of the Tyranid formations, 
because they're normally three 

790
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:41,120
to five miniatures and killing 
two to three models is quite 

791
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,880
easy to do. 
And so very quickly you find 

792
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,960
you're getting out of control, 
tons of points lost. 

793
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:49,120
The other thing that's really 
interesting with the tyrannies 

794
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,000
is they score no points from 
scoring objectives. 

795
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,520
So the classic way to win Epic 
is grab as many objectives as 

796
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,840
you can and break a company or 
two and you've probably got over

797
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,560
the VP limit to win. 
And tyrannies don't have that 

798
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,800
because they cannot score from 
objectives. 

799
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,440
So straight away you're like, so
I don't get my five points from 

800
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,400
each objective I'm on. 
And I break quite easily or not 

801
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,240
break, but like I, yeah, like I,
my formation breaks, I give up 

802
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:16,560
my VPS. 
So the Epic, the game, the tier,

803
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,800
the game will very much be a 
kind of a flat line, and then it

804
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,800
suddenly ramps up at the end in 
terms of VP scoring because you 

805
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,800
cannot score any victory points 
from objectives. 

806
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,360
So you don't get that like those
freebie points. 

807
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,040
The other thing that's really 
interesting then and where they 

808
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,160
become very interesting to play,
depending on who you play 

809
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,120
against, is how they do score 
points. 

810
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,880
So they score points as normal 
for breaking an enemy formation,

811
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,280
and then they score the same 
points again if they wipe that 

812
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,560
formation out. 
So that's really, really cool 

813
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,120
against other armies that don't 
have massive companies that have

814
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,560
got lots of little companies. 
So I think like maybe Elder is a

815
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:56,440
good example where you'll get to
like, yeah, you know, chip where

816
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:57,880
support. 
And I think definitely like, you

817
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,080
know, hunting support cards is a
good starting point because 

818
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,800
support cards are obviously a 
lot easier to break than company

819
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,680
cards. 
However, anyone playing Tyranids

820
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,960
against Tyranids worth their 
soul probably know that. 

821
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,680
And most armies have pretty 
chunky company cards. 

822
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,320
And the example I would give 
those, the worst of all, it's 

823
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,760
the one I happen to have played 
against now is the Orcs. 

824
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,400
So Sam and I've played a couple 
of games, she always plays orcs.

825
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,160
And the great thing about orcs 
is not only do they have massive

826
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,480
companies by default, everything
they had is a support card just 

827
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,600
goes into that company. 
So don't expect to score any 

828
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,200
victory points against orcs for 
the first two or three turns of 

829
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,320
the game and just hope you can 
get there by the end because you

830
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,600
have to a breaker formation, 
which is really, really hard 

831
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:39,200
when you know every every 
support card you add to an 

832
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,040
Auckland adds to its break 
value. 

833
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,400
So it's getting harder and 
harder to break them and then B 

834
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:47,800
to wipe them out to score that 
second amount of victory points 

835
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,920
is really, really hard, 
especially when I don't know 

836
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,080
you're fighting against the code
of speed and there's like 3 

837
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,520
buggies left. 
And so they just turn 180 and 

838
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,880
disappear off over the horizon 
at 90 miles an hour and go and 

839
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,000
hide in the corner of the table 
and you've got nothing that can 

840
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,920
hunt down those last two or 
three models. 

841
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,080
So you're not getting that 
second amount of victory points 

842
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,360
and like mathematically, you 
know, we were adding up and it 

843
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:13,360
was like we played 2000 points. 
The only way the Tyranids can 

844
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,360
win a 2000 point game is by 
breaking like and wiping out 

845
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:19,720
those companies because you 
can't score objectives. 

846
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,280
So that's a really interesting 
dynamic. 

847
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:23,960
And like I say you, you will 
really see it. 

848
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,880
You'll be flat line, flat line, 
flat line, and then it will 

849
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:28,600
suddenly ramp up in points as 
you finally break, you know, 

850
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,600
break and hunt down those last 
few bits of formation. 

851
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,680
So that's a really interesting 
thing you've got to think about 

852
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,720
and you've got to think about 
how can I chase down those last 

853
00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:37,840
little bits? 
How have I got something fast if

854
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,320
I got something long ranged, if 
I got something, you know, 

855
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,400
that's good at, you know, maybe 
barraging an area, whatever it 

856
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,720
may be. 
Because otherwise what's going 

857
00:39:45,720 --> 00:39:47,760
to happen is exactly that your 
opponent's going to, you know, 

858
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,800
have a formation break, give up 
half their VPS and then the rest

859
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,440
of it's not going to be wiped 
out and they're going to clear 

860
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,280
off and hide if they've got any 
sense. 

861
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,560
No water. 
But definitely like 

862
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,920
strategically thinking. 
So I think that makes it really 

863
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,600
interesting. 
So then when it comes to like 

864
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,880
building, building an army, 
there's this kind of, you know, 

865
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,960
White Wolf article back in the 
day, Pretty sure AD wrote it. 

866
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,760
You talk about the idea of the 
kind of the tactical devastate 

867
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,920
and the assault formation, and I
think that is a really good 

868
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,240
starting point for any epic 
army. 

869
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:20,680
And the terrorists do break down
quite nicely into that. 

870
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,720
And so you've got to think about
like, what am I trying to do and

871
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:28,320
where do these pieces fit into 
it? 

872
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,200
And so naturally, I think 
tyrannies are quite a salty 

873
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,360
force, you know, don't have many
long range guns. 

874
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:38,840
Every single Tyranid is rocking 
massive claws and wants to eat 

875
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,320
your face off. 
So like assault is kind of one 

876
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,000
of the major strengths. 
They all have a ridiculously 

877
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,000
high close assault factor. 
So you are going to win the 

878
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,080
majority of close combats you 
get to. 

879
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:50,560
So that's your first starting 
point. 

880
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,800
Let's go. 
OK, I want to build good close 

881
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,440
combat, get in your face swarms.
And So what you think about is 

882
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,200
then, right, what what does that
and what can support that? 

883
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,200
And what I would say like 
there's a very, very clear 

884
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:07,080
divide, which is tier did 
infantry on the whole, if you're

885
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,280
not called con FX or hive Tyrant
is beyond squishy. 

886
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:15,640
It will just die in volume. 
So you're not going to be able 

887
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,040
to just run across the table. 
So you go, OK, how do I get 

888
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,600
across the table? 
And the answer to that is tier 

889
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,040
did quote UN quote tanks. 
So all the, you know, all the, 

890
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,720
the slug creatures, you know, 
the, so you've got the, the X 

891
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:32,680
cream, the Dactylus, the 
Malefactor, and the Harris bags.

892
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,680
They are essentially tanks. 
They're just gigantic slug 

893
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,680
tanks. 
And some of them have the 

894
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,000
ability to transport troops. 
And I think that's the really 

895
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,800
key bit there where you're 
thinking about this idea of, you

896
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,760
know, combined arms. 
And if you spread your Tyranids 

897
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:49,600
out, you're going to lose 
because they'll just be picked 

898
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,640
off here and there and then not 
going to be able to, you know, 

899
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,680
hit in any, I think it's called 
defeat in detail. 

900
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,880
Is the, is the cost literally a 
game called that? 

901
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,160
Like the idea of if you, if you 
do not apply a concentrated 

902
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,240
force in specific locations with
a specific mission, you're going

903
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:05,840
to inevitably die because you're
just frittering away your troops

904
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,120
here and there, achieving 
nothing. 

905
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,800
So like Tyranids are an army 
that will die to defeat in 

906
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,840
detail, definitely. 
And so you, you basically want 

907
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,440
to break your army down. 
And I think orcs behave in a 

908
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,440
very similar way. 
I think another common mistake I

909
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,760
see with people playing orcs is 
they they go, I can do all these

910
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:20,720
cool things. 
I'll have, you know, three of 

911
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:22,600
them and three of them and three
of them and they'll drive off 

912
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,360
and do their own thing. 
When actually orcs want to be 

913
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,240
like one or two big clumps of 
orcs that just push into the 

914
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:32,880
enemy and say, deal with that. 
And there's too many orcs and 

915
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,680
not enough guns to deal with it.
And so I think tears are very 

916
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,400
similar. 
So I always kind of break it 

917
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:38,920
down. 
So I have like a very much an A 

918
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:43,920
salty bit, which is, you know, 
gene stealers hormigans because 

919
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:48,040
they're cheap Tyranid warriors 
to lead them and you stick them 

920
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,480
in vehicles. 
And if you look at the you know,

921
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,640
you look at the close sole 
factor of some of those in 

922
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,000
vehicles vehicles. 
It's such a weird thing to say. 

923
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,960
The slug is a vehicle. 
But yes, a malefactor carries 2 

924
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,600
infantry close sole factor 5. 
The what's the other one that 

925
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,520
can carry troops? 
Hang on, it's the manufacturer 

926
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,960
and the maybe it's just a 
malefactor actually. 

927
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,320
Do the big Titans carry them as 
well? 

928
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,880
So. 
We'll, we'll come on to 

929
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,000
Harridan's because Harridan's 
do, and that's a little bit 

930
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,360
different. 
Yeah. 

931
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,280
Maybe it's just, maybe it's just
the malefactor. 

932
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,680
Yeah. 
Yeah, Carries. 

933
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:34,400
Yeah. 
Because then you use. 

934
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:35,800
Yeah, you use the other ones as 
support. 

935
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:36,800
That's right. 
Yes, Yes. 

936
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:37,840
Yes, yes, yes. 
There we go. 

937
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:38,880
It's been a, it's been a little 
while. 

938
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,200
Bear with me. 
So you know a, the malefactor 

939
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,600
can carry infantry and B, it's 
got a whack and great closest 

940
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,480
soul factor. 
The other interesting thing, if 

941
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,080
you look at the majority of the 
very, very low range, so 25 

942
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,880
centimeters, part of the biggest
range on a lot of the basic 

943
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:59,200
weapons like 50 if you're lucky.
So you're inevitably going to be

944
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,720
charging up the table and kind 
of pushing in. 

945
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,720
So you basically build a big 
BLOB of the assault. 

946
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,280
And that's that's a bunch of of 
assault Tyranids in malefactors.

947
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:17,720
And then I was supporting them 
with the other short range tank,

948
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:20,520
which is the Harris backs. 
So 25 centimeters on this after 

949
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,720
jets, 25 centimeters on this 
Frank spies, but again, a close 

950
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:24,520
sub factor of seven. 
Really cool. 

951
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:30,400
And that's your assault wing and
you basically want as much as 

952
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:35,720
you can fit into that in a BLOB 
pointed towards something scary.

953
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:37,200
And you just push them up the 
table. 

954
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,280
And it's and again, it's one of 
those a bit like with the orcs, 

955
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,440
you are going to take 
casualties. 

956
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,600
So you have to just grit your 
teeth and push through the, you 

957
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,440
know, the inevitable, you know, 
fuselate of death that's coming 

958
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,480
your way. 
Once you get to the other side, 

959
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:54,640
whatever is left is going to 
butcher whatever it hits unless 

960
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,240
you really get unlucky. 
So it's it's one of those things

961
00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,480
like it's not, it's not a 
gamblers army, but like it's one

962
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,120
of those armies where so if you 
play elder, like every elder 

963
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,560
death, you feel you do not want 
to lose your troops. 

964
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:07,400
Tyranids, you're going to have 
to enjoy watching your troops 

965
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,320
get obliterated because it's 
going to happen. 

966
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,320
And the weird thing is like the 
tanks are so survivable by 

967
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,240
comparison. 
So a lot of the time what ends 

968
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:16,760
up happening is it's the tanks 
that get there and like maybe 

969
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:18,760
one or two standards of tyranny 
warriors and the rest of the 

970
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,520
inventories just been blasted 
off the table. 

971
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,960
You've also got to get good at 
that that, you know, it's one of

972
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:24,320
the hardest things with second 
edition. 

973
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,720
When do I get out of my vehicle?
Because we all know like staying

974
00:45:27,720 --> 00:45:30,840
in a vehicle is a death sentence
and also you can't I was very 

975
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,120
it's not it's very hard to 
charge out of vehicles. 

976
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:34,960
It's not impossible, but it's 
quite difficult to do. 

977
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,720
So like being able to like 
figure out, you know, two moves 

978
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:41,040
ahead, how far do I need to 
move? 

979
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,040
When do I get out? 
What does that give me? 

980
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,640
And also knowing that all your 
guns are 25 centimeters, if you 

981
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,200
get out too soon and everyone 
just pulls back, it just gives 

982
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,000
them another turn of shooting 
against you. 

983
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,720
So that's quite interesting. 
So that's your kind of your 

984
00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:54,240
assault wing. 
The other thing I think is 

985
00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:57,600
really important is to talk 
about sign ups and you know how 

986
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,200
you allocate orders. 
And I think the secret weapon 

987
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:01,960
here is absolutely Tyranid 
warriors. 

988
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,280
So you get, you know, your 
certain number of hive cars each

989
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,720
turn and some of those hive cars
can be used to give orders. 

990
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:09,600
Some of them do other clever 
things, some of them do both. 

991
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,160
You have to make a choice, 
etcetera, etcetera. 

992
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,760
And anything you don't give 
specific orders to just behaves 

993
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:16,840
on its instinctive behavior. 
Now the good news is those 

994
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,200
instinctive behaviors tend to be
fairly sensible. 

995
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,480
Shoot, you guys tend to want to 
hang back and shoot fight. 

996
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,600
You guys want to get up and rip 
your girls out, but you do lose 

997
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,400
that element of control and they
might go after the wrong thing. 

998
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,520
So to shoot, you guys have to 
shoot the closest target, things

999
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,400
like that. 
And normally you go, OK, well, 

1000
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,120
I've got, you know, the the 
dominatrix and the Hive Tyrant 

1001
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,040
are out there kind of giving out
those orders. 

1002
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,640
You have to be near a synapse 
creature to be able to do that. 

1003
00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:47,520
The turn of warriors are the 
like the Brucie bonus because 

1004
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,920
they're not Synapse, but they 
are independent. 

1005
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:51,920
So they do what they want to do.
And then they have a special 

1006
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,960
rule that basically lets them 
give those orders to anything 

1007
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:55,920
nearby. 
And so they really are the 

1008
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,640
secret weapon because you've 
only got a finite number of Hive

1009
00:46:58,640 --> 00:46:59,960
cards. 
You don't want to have to give 

1010
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:02,680
orders to everything. 
And what I really found myself 

1011
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,280
doing time and again was 
ensuring that I had 200 warriors

1012
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:09,120
with my like my brood or my mob,
and they were there to ensure 

1013
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,480
that everyone behaved so I 
didn't have to waste hive cards 

1014
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,040
unnecessarily because I'd much 
rather be doing, you know, the 

1015
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,920
psychic soul or barrage or 
whatever it may be. 

1016
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,880
So and make sure you've got 
tiraded war. 

1017
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,320
And again, that's, that's a 
really good reflection of the 

1018
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,120
the law, isn't it? 
You know, you know, the synapse 

1019
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:25,240
is there for very specific 
things. 

1020
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:28,320
And then the tiraded warriors 
are the kind of the wider net 

1021
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,080
there, your boots on the ground,
the kind of commanding officers 

1022
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,120
for the troops in the frontline 
rather than the like the heroes.

1023
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:34,960
So I think that's really 
interesting. 

1024
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,480
So you've got your, you've got 
your soul block and now what 

1025
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,240
else do you do? 
And again, there's there's, 

1026
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:41,840
there's kind of those natural 
clumps. 

1027
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,440
So the second one for me is very
much the devastated company, 

1028
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:49,600
which is the guys with the guns.
And there again, you've got a 

1029
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:54,160
couple of tyranny warriors and 
they're there to give out the 

1030
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,080
abilities. 
Death Spit is not a terrible 

1031
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,880
girl, to be fair. 
Two shots, 50 centimeter range 

1032
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:01,240
hits on a 5 -, 1. 
It's not going to like cut 

1033
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:03,160
through Titans, but it's not the
worst gun ever. 

1034
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,760
So as well as babysitting the, 
the artillery, they're also 

1035
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,120
providing a bit. 
And then you basically have kind

1036
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,960
of two choices. 
You've got the the X cranes who 

1037
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:16,440
are really, really good against 
tanks and Titans. 

1038
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,200
And then you've got the 
Dactylus, which is more like 

1039
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,040
artillery area of effect, good 
against infantry. 

1040
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,280
And you're probably going to 
want to mix, but it might 

1041
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,240
depend, you know, maybe you're 
going up against guards, so you 

1042
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:28,680
know they're going to have a 
boatload of tanks. 

1043
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,280
You want to go more exocrine. 
Maybe you know, you're going up 

1044
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:32,960
against orcs, which you can have
a lot of infantry. 

1045
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,720
Maybe therefore you want 
Dactylus for, you know, bigger 

1046
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:40,840
barrages or a little bit 5050. 
And so their job really is to, 

1047
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,120
you know, stay back, although 
they can't be too far back 

1048
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:44,520
because the ranges are 
spectacular. 

1049
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:50,520
But 75 centimeters and is it 50?
No, yeah, 75 centimeters for 

1050
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:51,360
both. 
It's not too bad. 

1051
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,120
It's a fairly good range weapon.
And I definitely think like 

1052
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:58,960
Exocreans are your or your 
secret weapon so that, you know,

1053
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,560
two shots hit on fives -3 armor.
That is a very, very good gun. 

1054
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:07,400
And so you want to be, you know,
picking off Titan Shields. 

1055
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:09,600
You want to be attacking Titans,
you want to be taking out super 

1056
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:11,600
heavy tanks, you want to be 
shooting tank companies with 

1057
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,760
them. 
That's what they're there to do.

1058
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,080
And so that's kind of for me, 
the kind of the two main groups 

1059
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:19,760
that I'm doing, I'm doing an 
artillery group. 

1060
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:22,200
I mean, you know, in a bigger 
game, maybe you'd split that 

1061
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:23,560
even further. 
You'd have an artillery group 

1062
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,560
for anti infantry and artillery 
group for anti tank. 

1063
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:27,280
So you can cover for a bit more 
of the battlefield. 

1064
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,560
But that's your those to me are 
the basic building blocks. 

1065
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,520
And then with what's left, you 
have a couple of different 

1066
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:35,720
choices. 
So I've already said like term 

1067
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:38,960
against a bit crap. 
They've got, you know, 10 

1068
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,240
centimeter move like a 25 
centimeter gun once you're hit 

1069
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:46,040
on fives, no AP, their instincts
is to hunt. 

1070
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:49,640
We're doing OK, fine. 
But like basically what their 

1071
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,200
job is there to do is to hold 
objectives. 

1072
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,560
So we've already established 
terrorists don't get points for 

1073
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:57,880
holding objectives. 
However, they still lose points 

1074
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,200
when your opponent holds 
objectives. 

1075
00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:01,360
So even though you're not 
scoring off those objectives, 

1076
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,400
you still need to be constant of
the fact that if you leave them 

1077
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:05,600
undefended, if you don't bother 
going after them, your 

1078
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,880
opponent's just going to get a 
free win because a call speed is

1079
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,000
going to drive around your 
flank, drive over an objective, 

1080
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,480
scoop it up five points, go to 
the next one, scoop up five 

1081
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,840
points. 
So things like turbo grids for 

1082
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,920
me are really about like either 
you want like if you're for 

1083
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,800
whatever reason you feel like 
doing a foot swarm, good luck to

1084
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,400
you. 
You'd use Tyranids as the like 

1085
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,280
screen at the front to just 
catch bullets and die. 

1086
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,520
Or if you've been sensible and 
poor your your soul swarms in 

1087
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,800
tanks. 
Their job is to just hold those 

1088
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,640
objective points, dig in, stop 
the opponent stealing them as 

1089
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:36,600
best as possible. 
But just don't expect anything 

1090
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,760
out of your turbo grids because 
you'll be disappointed to get 

1091
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,600
one shot off in the game. 
It'll be a miracle. 

1092
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,360
The good news is they're cheap. 
So you need to think about, you 

1093
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:47,040
know, turbulence on the back 
line holding the board. 

1094
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,920
And then what you've got is 
things like con FX is Hive 

1095
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:55,120
tyrants and the Dominatrix. 
And they're really interesting 

1096
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:59,640
because they, they can kind of 
do describe the kind of fixes 

1097
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,400
for a minute. 
But the Hive tyrant and the 

1098
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,000
dominatrix can do a little bit 
of both. 

1099
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:04,800
They can be a little bit salty, 
they can be a little bit shooty,

1100
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:06,360
but they're very salty, very 
shooty. 

1101
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,800
But you've got a like, they're 
like the scalpel that you've got

1102
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,320
to pick their very specific 
targets for the other really 

1103
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,000
interesting thing. 
So the dominatrix, you have to 

1104
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,760
take a dominatrix for each swarm
that you build and you get one 

1105
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,440
for every 2000 points. 
So in a 4000 point game, you're 

1106
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:24,920
out two. 
In a 3000 point game, I think 

1107
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,200
it's one per 2000 pass. 
They're also I think you're out 

1108
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:29,520
two in a 3000 point game. 
Could be wrong there. 

1109
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,000
Maybe it's only when you get to 
4000. 

1110
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,400
They're super powerful. 
They got really kick ass stats, 

1111
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,440
incredible guns, incredible 
psychic powers. 

1112
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:42,120
But if they die, bad things 
happen and obviously everyone 

1113
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,160
and their dog is going to be 
pointing every gun they've got 

1114
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,080
at them. 
And what's really interesting is

1115
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,600
because they're super heavy, 
they can only be shielded by 

1116
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:51,400
other super heavy things and 
Titans. 

1117
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:54,680
Now you probably don't want to 
Titan babysitting your 

1118
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,440
dominatrixes because that's 
quite a lot of points. 

1119
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,840
The only other thing in the book
that can shield them then is the

1120
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,560
Trigon. 
And that's an interesting thing 

1121
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,480
because the Trigon is a very, 
very like kick ass. 

1122
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,600
Again, like close soul factor 8,
there's a massive closer soul 

1123
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:13,840
factor. 
It's an absolute kick ass, super

1124
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,920
heavy combat vehicle. 
Do you want two or three of 

1125
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:19,600
them? 
Because they're not cheap sat 

1126
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:21,480
around bodyguarding a 
dominatrix. 

1127
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,120
That's the only choice you've 
got really if you want to defend

1128
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:28,160
the queen. 
So that's interesting. 

1129
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:29,640
Like, I don't, I don't run them 
currently. 

1130
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,960
I think if you're going up 
against a very shooty army, so 

1131
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:36,200
against a guard or an elder, you
may be forced to because you 

1132
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,400
just need somebody to catch 
bullets for the queen and 

1133
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,480
nothing else is big enough to 
block her. 

1134
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,200
The dominatrix does have a 
shield, so she can put up a 

1135
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:46,920
psychic shield which protects 
her, which is great. 

1136
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:48,960
So again, if you're going into 
elder or you're going into God, 

1137
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:49,960
maybe you want to think about 
that. 

1138
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,000
But the trouble is the other 
choices that are like an energy 

1139
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,720
attack, which is a really, 
really powerful attack. 

1140
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,520
And so that's a very interesting
debate. 

1141
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:00,920
Like, you know, do you want to 
keep her slightly back so she 

1142
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:08,600
can behave kind of like the the 
X creams where she's sort of 

1143
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,280
like a shooting piece, But 
actually then are you losing 

1144
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,480
some of the benefit of doing so?
But if you are going to send her

1145
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,160
into battle, how is she going to
be protected? 

1146
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,480
Now she's got wounds. 
Like that's that's again, a very

1147
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,840
interesting thing. 
The bigger Tyranids have wounds 

1148
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,960
so they can take multiple hits 
before they die. 

1149
00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:25,200
And quite a lot of them can 
regenerate as well. 

1150
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,720
So like there's nothing funnier 
than kind of effects of dying 

1151
00:53:27,720 --> 00:53:29,520
and regenerating and getting up 
and hitting you and dying and 

1152
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,200
regenerating. 
So like she's tough, she's 

1153
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,720
tanky. 
She is, you know, she is the 

1154
00:53:34,720 --> 00:53:36,440
queen. 
She's in this big like, you 

1155
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:41,120
know, is, is the the dominatrix 
the the weird elephant Tyranid 

1156
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:42,560
and then the queen is the bit on
his back. 

1157
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:44,600
I think that's how it works. 
So like, which is the 

1158
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,840
dominatrix, which is the queen? 
Interesting question. 

1159
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,520
But she's, you know, she's built
big. 

1160
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:51,720
She can take some damage, but 
she's so integral to your army 

1161
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:54,440
that you can't just squander 
them like losing a dominatrix. 

1162
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:56,440
It's not game over. 
But you've just made like very 

1163
00:53:56,440 --> 00:54:00,160
difficult for yourself. 
So you have to think about that.

1164
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,240
I think you take as many as you 
physically can because they're 

1165
00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:07,040
so good, but you have to 
understand you can't just like 

1166
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,280
walk in front of an Imperator 
Titan and be like, it'll be fine

1167
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:10,280
because it ain't going to be 
fine. 

1168
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:14,320
Hive Tyrants are like the lesser
version of that. 

1169
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:15,800
They have a similar behavior. 
The good news is they're a 

1170
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,840
little bit smaller. 
They are night size, so there's 

1171
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:19,480
not a huge amount that can 
shield them either. 

1172
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,600
Like card FXS is about the best 
bodyguard for them. 

1173
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,320
But again, they've got 
regeneration, they've got 

1174
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:25,640
multiple wounds, they've got a 
really good gun, and they've got

1175
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:28,440
some pretty cool psychic 
abilities. 

1176
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,480
So I tend to use those more as 
like a swarm commander, you 

1177
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,960
know, So I tend not to put them 
in my assault swarm. 

1178
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:37,520
I tend to put them in my rain 
swarm. 

1179
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,160
The assault swarm like, you 
know, sweeps up a flank, goes 

1180
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,440
after things. 
The the rainstorm kind of moves 

1181
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,800
roughly into the kind of first, 
third or just to the middle of 

1182
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,640
the board. 
And that's where I think the 

1183
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:51,560
Hive Tyrant will shine. 
You know, it does a lot. 

1184
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,760
But again, and that's where I 
think the Tyranid warriors help 

1185
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,360
because then it's not so 
problematic if if she dies 

1186
00:54:57,360 --> 00:54:59,120
because yeah, that's another 
Synapse creature gone. 

1187
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:00,880
But it doesn't matter because 
you've got the Tyranid warriors,

1188
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:02,760
you know, picking up the heavy 
lifting. 

1189
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,400
The other reason it's good to 
have, you know, Synapse creature

1190
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,560
about is so you can use those 
Hive Mind cards. 

1191
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:11,000
So it is, you know, I think a 
2000 points, I'm running one 

1192
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,240
Dominatrix and one Hive Tyrant 
and each one's kind of, you 

1193
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,080
know, sort of looking after a 
brood, but the dominatrix kind 

1194
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,280
of swings between the two. 
As you get into bigger games, I 

1195
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:24,960
think maybe have more because 
they are they are very flexible.

1196
00:55:24,960 --> 00:55:27,560
They do have that bit of punch 
and they're just so hard to take

1197
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:28,840
down. 
You know, before you can get 

1198
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,880
into regeneration, they've got, 
you know, impenetrable Shields, 

1199
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:32,280
etcetera, etcetera, multiple 
wounds. 

1200
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,560
So that's really a really 
interesting debate. 

1201
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,600
And then I guess then you get 
into the what I would call the 

1202
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:43,240
like the interference squads. 
And these are the ones where 

1203
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:45,360
this is how you buy your time. 
So I've already said like 

1204
00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:48,680
running across the table into a 
wall of guns is not a fun time. 

1205
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,360
The least amount of that you can
do the better. 

1206
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:52,640
And there's kind of two ways to 
disrupt. 

1207
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:54,480
Well, three ways. 
So number one is terrain, hide 

1208
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,280
behind terrain #2 is go fast. 
So the faster you get there, the

1209
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,840
fewer bullets you take. 
And then #3 is try and disrupt 

1210
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:01,680
it. 
And so you've got a couple of 

1211
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:04,080
different options. 
So one of them is the is the 

1212
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,920
Dactylus is that you're throwing
that AO E is trying to, you 

1213
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,560
know, spread out enemy and 
disrupt enemy #2 then it's the 

1214
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,240
kind of disruption swarms. 
And there's a couple of 

1215
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:14,160
different ways you can do it. 
One is, well, they're both in 

1216
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,880
the air, I suppose both in the 
air or lictors, maybe as lictors

1217
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,640
as three. 
But it's either, you know, a 

1218
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,640
Herodian or two with some 
gargoyles or it's a card 

1219
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:28,840
effects, a couple of card 
effects mobs, maybe some gene 

1220
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,840
stealers, maybe some hormones. 
My sex exploring onto the 

1221
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,680
battlefield. 
And the idea with both of those 

1222
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:38,080
is they basically, you know, 
turn 1, the herald is going to 

1223
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,560
advance move. 
I think turn 2 the, you know, 

1224
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:45,800
maybe it's turn 1, the the pods 
come out of the sky and they're 

1225
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,920
probably going to die because 
they're basically going into the

1226
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,160
enemy army alone and undefended.
But the point is that buying 

1227
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,720
time for your assault swarm to 
get in and cause mischief. 

1228
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,000
And they're also blocking the 
enemy up from advancing. 

1229
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,200
So, you know, we've already said
if you lose your objectives, 

1230
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,360
you've lost the game, giving 
your opponent free reign to go 

1231
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,120
is is only, you know, is 
speeding that up. 

1232
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:10,280
So by stopping them or forcing 
them to hang back or forcing 

1233
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,000
them to split their attention, 
you're buying time for your 

1234
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:14,480
assault squad to get in and do 
its job. 

1235
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,280
And so, yeah, the Harridan flies
up it it, you know, drops all 

1236
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:21,000
its gargoyles and it, you know, 
hopefully flies over a unit and 

1237
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,440
and does the bombing run. 
It will probably get shot down 

1238
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:24,800
doing the bombing run, 
unfortunately. 

1239
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,080
That's why it's that classic 
thing of, you know, don't send 

1240
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,000
one to do a job, send two. 
So send two Harridan's with two 

1241
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,800
brews of gargoyles twice the 
chance of being successful, then

1242
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,120
yes, it's twice the points, but 
you know, better, something 

1243
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,440
makes it the nothing or you drop
those carnifexes down. 

1244
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:41,920
And the greatest about the 
carnifexes is A, they heal 

1245
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,120
themselves, they regenerate. 
So they've got a 5050 chance of 

1246
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:48,800
just not dying. 
And B, when they're, you know, 

1247
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,480
isolated from the synapse, when 
they're not in contact with the,

1248
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,240
with the hive mind, they just go
crazy. 

1249
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,160
And that's great because what 
you do is you drop, you know, a 

1250
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,560
pod or two pods of of of 
carnifexes down and then you 

1251
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,360
just leave them to it. 
And those three to six can 

1252
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,520
effects is will just be running 
around slicing up everything 

1253
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,560
they touch, You know, close 
fault seven. 

1254
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,840
That's a huge swing. 
Yes, they've got a bit of 

1255
00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:13,200
shooting as well. 
They ain't going to be doing it 

1256
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:14,920
because they're going to be too 
busy charging and shopping. 

1257
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,240
But you just let I mean, I I've 
literally, you know, both games 

1258
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:21,560
against Sam, like one can effect
survives, but one's all it 

1259
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:23,360
takes. 
And then there's just this one 

1260
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,480
dude on a rampage just barreling
through whatever he can and 

1261
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:28,280
again, he's going to die. 
He's not going to like last 

1262
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:32,160
forever, but by by taking that 
attention away and by forcing 

1263
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:34,120
units to to fall back to engage 
with it. 

1264
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,840
Or, you know, maybe as well, 
there's some some clever tricks 

1265
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:42,280
with, you know, hive tyrants and
the psychic scream that breaks 

1266
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,480
enemies, putting units in 
combat. 

1267
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,880
The auto brake, like there's 
some clever tricks you can do if

1268
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:49,680
you if you like chain brake 
tests. 

1269
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,160
All it takes is that, you know, 
that one kind of effects it in 

1270
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:56,920
the right place at the right 
time, causing mischief to really

1271
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:58,600
put a spanner in your opponent's
works. 

1272
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:00,840
And I think that's, you know, 
that's the trick. 

1273
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,200
So, you know, you've got your, 
you know, your main assault 

1274
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:04,920
brood or assault broods in 
bigger games. 

1275
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:08,960
They're the ones that are going 
to do the damage and everyone 

1276
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:11,000
else is buying the time for that
to happen. 

1277
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,640
Be that through disruption, be 
that through, you know, heavy 

1278
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,480
firepower. 
And I think that's the way you 

1279
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,400
play Tyranids. 
I'm really hoping that we do get

1280
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:21,360
to chat with that in the future 
because it would be fascinating 

1281
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,400
to get his read on it. 
But certainly, you know, having 

1282
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:24,920
played a few games, haven't gone
through the book, haven't 

1283
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:28,480
examined all the different 
pieces, that's how it's broken 

1284
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,280
down to me. 
And that's what I found works. 

1285
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,240
Now, what I would say is Orcs 
are one of the hardest games 

1286
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,560
because you just don't score 
victory points. 

1287
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,880
And so it's really, really hard 
to get over that victory 

1288
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,880
threshold. 
And I think, you know, like I 

1289
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:47,880
think I did end up winning both 
games, but it was like if, you 

1290
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:50,160
know, if Sam had just got a 
different way or if a specific 

1291
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:55,320
unit hadn't broken, I would have
had so few points on the board 

1292
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,800
because you just don't score 
points of Hawks because they 

1293
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:01,440
don't break. 
And the only way to score 

1294
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,640
victory points is breaking and 
then wiping out. 

1295
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,000
And, you know, we know orcs 
don't break because they get 

1296
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,480
massive, like massive clans. 
And even when they do break, 

1297
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,520
there's always a handful of 
stands scattered about. 

1298
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:14,920
And because you don't have that 
ability to just reach out and 

1299
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:17,200
touch people with long range, 
it's really, really hard to 

1300
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,800
chase them down. 
Sam always likes to take 

1301
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:21,320
Gargons. 
She thinks Gargons are great 

1302
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:23,400
fun. 
Again, you've got you've got to 

1303
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:27,440
kill a Gargon. 
To get double its points, you 

1304
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,120
can't break a Gargon, so there's
no way to get half its points. 

1305
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,960
Like it's the Orkami is very, 
very tough for the tourists to 

1306
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:36,960
take on because they're almost 
like intrinsically designed to 

1307
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:38,840
not let you score victory 
points. 

1308
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,000
So that's something you've 
really got to think about. 

1309
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:46,160
And like I definitely think the 
Tyranids are a scalpel faction 

1310
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,560
where you have to very 
specifically go in and chop 

1311
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:53,440
pieces your opponents army out 
to score the points and then 

1312
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:55,160
move on to the net. 
If you try and do the whole army

1313
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,640
in one go, you are going to be 
defeat in detail. 

1314
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:00,560
You're going to lose because 
you're just not going to have 

1315
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,720
that ability to get there. 
Like, I don't think it's 

1316
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:06,480
mathematically possible. 
I could be wrong. 

1317
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:08,200
I need to run the numbers. 
But like, I don't think you can 

1318
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,800
mathematically win by only 
breaking formations. 

1319
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,640
You have to wipe them out 
because you, like normally you 

1320
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:16,000
break formations and score 
scenario objectives. 

1321
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:17,800
There are no objectives for the 
tourists to score. 

1322
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,080
So I think mathematically you 
basically have to break and wipe

1323
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:25,440
out about 2/3 of the opponent's 
army to be able to win a game. 

1324
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,000
And that's quite a big ask, 
especially when those A, don't 

1325
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,480
break for ages and B, have so 
many models wiping. 

1326
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:33,200
That's really hard. 
So I think it'd be interesting, 

1327
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,200
like, you know, we've got to 
play games against other forces.

1328
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:36,640
How do they feel going into 
Elder? 

1329
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:38,800
Maybe it's very different 
because Elder are much smaller 

1330
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:41,760
formations. 
They're easier to break, but 

1331
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:44,200
they are very shooting army. 
So maybe they'd have a power 

1332
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:46,760
Imperial Guard, again, massive 
formations. 

1333
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:48,920
Maybe it's going to take you a 
while to shoot through them. 

1334
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:52,080
The good news is, you know, if 
you can get there, like I think 

1335
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,840
my sex explorers are a really 
good use against Imperial Guard 

1336
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,560
because you're defeating the 
advantage of Imperial Guard, 

1337
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:01,200
which is they've got all the 
time in the world to fire every 

1338
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,560
massive gun they've got at you 
as you run across the table. 

1339
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:05,600
So like, that's quite 
interesting. 

1340
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,960
But yeah, like, like definitely 
you're on an uphill struggle 

1341
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,240
against orcs. 
I think, you know, we just need 

1342
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:17,200
to get more games in and see how
the different factions behave. 

1343
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:19,960
But that, you know, going back 
to that article in White Dwarf, 

1344
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,480
thinking about, you know, what's
my assault, what's my devastate,

1345
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,360
what's my tactical. 
And I think you really focus on 

1346
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,040
devastating assault with the 
Tyranids. 

1347
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:30,520
I don't think there's really 
such a thing as tactical in the 

1348
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:34,000
Tyranids because they're a bit 
of an all or nothing army. 

1349
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,480
You have to commit and do it on 
mass. 

1350
01:02:37,640 --> 01:02:39,680
And it's quite interesting. 
There was some some later on 

1351
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:41,920
because the 3rd edition where 
they were talking about the 

1352
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:46,920
different swarms and I think 
those are still applicable and 

1353
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:49,960
the same, you know, the same 
miniatures are like obviously 

1354
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:52,600
points are different. 
The way you build swarms is 

1355
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:57,640
slightly different, but the the 
concept of, you know, my sets, 

1356
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,320
explorer, soul, flank attack, 
big mob like that still stands 

1357
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,800
true as well. 
So like, you know, I do you 

1358
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:05,760
know, if you've got your old 
white dwarfs, sit and read them 

1359
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,160
if you they are available as 
PDFs on the Internet if you know

1360
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:10,920
where to look like find a list 
of what was ever written for 

1361
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:14,480
both 2nd and 3rd edition epic 
read up on those tactics. 

1362
01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:17,000
They are you know, they've stood
the test of time. 

1363
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:20,160
They do still absolutely work. 
And I think, you know, the 

1364
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:24,320
Tyranids being such a, you know,
such a razor focused army, they 

1365
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,040
are about killing you in the 
face with assault. 

1366
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:29,080
You know, you've only got to 
look at the closest old factor 

1367
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:30,920
column and you see those numbers
are all very high. 

1368
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,000
And then you look at the range 
column and go, those numbers are

1369
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,600
all very low to see that they're
an assault army. 

1370
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,400
And, you know, never play 
against the strength of an army.

1371
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:41,360
Like, I'm not saying it's 
impossible to do a shooting 

1372
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,800
Tyranid army, but I think it 
will be very, very hard to use 

1373
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:49,840
because yes, you know, the 
Exocrine is an incredible 

1374
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,920
shooting platform. 
Two shots, OK, his and five. 

1375
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,400
That's not incredible. 
It's not the end of the world -3

1376
01:03:55,400 --> 01:04:01,800
like it's such a powerful tank 
and powerful anti tank and anti 

1377
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,720
vehicle gun, but it's very 
expensive. 

1378
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:07,560
You are not going to get many of
them. 

1379
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:10,040
They are not going to be holding
territory. 

1380
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,480
So that's just not going to be 
winning games, if that makes 

1381
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,120
sense. 
Like, so I just think a Tyranid 

1382
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:17,600
gun line, it probably sucks. 
Like maybe I'll try it one day 

1383
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:20,800
for fun, but I just cannot 
envision a world in which taking

1384
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:25,280
a Tyranid gun line really works.
So I think the one thing I've 

1385
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,040
not spoken about is the is the 
Titans. 

1386
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:32,560
I haven't used the Titans yet. 
That's kind of why I think same 

1387
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,520
idea, you know, tactical 
devastate or assault. 

1388
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:38,680
You do the same thing with that.
Do you want at all tentacles all

1389
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:41,160
the time? 
A salty guy who just scuttles 

1390
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:43,320
across the table at high speed, 
gets into something and rips it 

1391
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,360
apart? 
Do you want a gun platform that 

1392
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,160
hangs back with the longer range
guns? 

1393
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:49,800
That really is all there is to 
it with the Titans. 

1394
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,040
I think the only interesting 
thing with the Titans is they've

1395
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,520
also got wounds and regenerate. 
So unlike your typical Titan, 

1396
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:58,800
you can't like shoot the guns 
off. 

1397
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:00,680
I mean, you can't shoot the guns
off it, but like it's not that 

1398
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:01,880
same thing. 
If you know, chip the Shields 

1399
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:05,840
down, chip the guns off, go for 
the, you know, the, the, the 

1400
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,520
generator blow the generator 
time explodes. 

1401
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,520
That doesn't happen with a 
Tyranids Titan. 

1402
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,960
It's a, it's a lot harder to hit
because if you look at their, 

1403
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:20,000
their grid, they're very, very 
thin and it's very, very easy to

1404
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,360
scatter shots and miss using, 
you know, you've rolled the, the

1405
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:25,400
hip, you know, the up, down, 
left, right dice. 

1406
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:29,360
It's very, very easy to target a
tear in Titan and miss because 

1407
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:33,040
it's, it's like, it's like a 
weird, like l-shaped, you know, 

1408
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:34,840
tetronomo or like diagonal 
tetromino. 

1409
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,880
So it's very, very easy to miss.
And B, even if you do hit, yeah,

1410
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:39,920
it's going to take some wounds, 
but it might regenerate those 

1411
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:41,440
wounds. 
So I think there are really 

1412
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,960
interesting again and it's, you 
know, again, it's that that's 

1413
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,600
the like that classic pairing of
of narrative and mechanic where 

1414
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:50,760
you know, these things, just 
when you think they're dead, 

1415
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,240
they get up for another go. 
They heal their wounds that you 

1416
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,720
know, they're empowered by the 
by the hive mind to like just 

1417
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,160
just don't stop, don't think, 
you know, you're not even a 

1418
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:01,520
you're not even a sentient 
living creature anymore. 

1419
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:05,640
You're just a weapon made of me.
And they really do reflect that.

1420
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,000
It's going to be fun getting 
into it. 

1421
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,240
I guess the only reason I'm not 
really into it at the moment is 

1422
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,320
because they're like £95 a throw
now and I so, you know, the idea

1423
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,600
of spending £300 on three times 
is pretty depressing. 

1424
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:22,720
But yeah, like they're 
fascinating. 

1425
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:24,840
They're such a fascinating, you 
know, from the way you build 

1426
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:28,200
them, the way they play, the way
the Hive, my cars work, the way 

1427
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:31,360
Synapse works. 
It's kind of a shame almost that

1428
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:35,040
they are so hard to get hold of.
And also, you know, it's fun 

1429
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,720
enough both in second edition 
40K, sorry, second edition 

1430
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:40,160
Spaceman, and in 3rd edition, 
they were kind of one of the 

1431
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:43,800
last forces to come out. 
So I just feel like they never 

1432
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:48,200
really got that time to shine 
and people have struggled to get

1433
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:50,480
them because they've been so 
rare to get hold of the 

1434
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:53,000
plastics. 
And I think, you know, the other

1435
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:55,120
thing that's really sad is, you 
know, not to get into money 

1436
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:57,080
necessarily, but it's really sad
when you look at. 

1437
01:06:57,600 --> 01:07:02,400
So the you know, the the 2nd 
edition box was five of each 

1438
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:03,640
frame. 
So you could do each of the 

1439
01:07:03,640 --> 01:07:06,400
different company cards because 
you've got like 11 stand of each

1440
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,280
two of the turbo goods. 
So you buy a box, you get one of

1441
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,680
each company or sorry, well, not
one of each swarm. 

1442
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:12,920
And then two of the two of the 
turbo goods makes 1 swarm. 

1443
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,520
And then when they went into 4th
a third edition, it was 2 

1444
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:20,360
frames, identical frames, but 
like, you know, not even half as

1445
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,760
much, like 2/5 as much. 
And so there just isn't that 

1446
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:25,760
fair. 
You know, you can buy, you can 

1447
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,240
still buy orcs for days, you can
still buy space Marines for days

1448
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:30,880
because everybody had them in 
huge volume. 

1449
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,920
The Tyranids were always quite 
hard to come by and the amount 

1450
01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:35,760
you got diminished. 
And I think that's why they're 

1451
01:07:35,760 --> 01:07:40,720
so expensive is why like finding
plastic frames of Tyranids, it's

1452
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:42,440
really, really hard. 
Which is why I ended up buying 

1453
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,320
those, those knock off mails 
because it was just, it was just

1454
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:47,360
the only way I could get those. 
And you need those tier dead 

1455
01:07:47,360 --> 01:07:51,680
warriors. 
It just meant people didn't get 

1456
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,240
that opportunity. 
So, you know, by by the proxies,

1457
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:57,760
by the alternative versions, 3D 
printing STLS are available if 

1458
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,480
you know where to look. 
And it'll be really interesting 

1459
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:01,760
to hear. 
Like, you know, it'd be great if

1460
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:04,000
there were other Tiernan players
out there who were like, John, 

1461
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:04,920
what the hell are you talking 
about? 

1462
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:06,080
You're clearly not a Tiernan 
player at all. 

1463
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:08,520
This is the secret. 
I completely missed something. 

1464
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:11,840
But certainly, you know, my, you
know, I have a very simple 

1465
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:13,920
approach to gaming. 
And I think no matter who it is,

1466
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:15,960
it's that find the thing they do
and do it well. 

1467
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,200
And tyrannies do assault 
incredibly well. 

1468
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:20,960
Like I said, you are going to, 
you're going to be giving up 

1469
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:22,240
victory points left, right and 
center. 

1470
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:24,279
You're going to be not scoring 
objectives, giving up victory 

1471
01:08:24,279 --> 01:08:27,359
points left, right and center. 
3/4 of your assault brood is 

1472
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:31,000
going to just be a steaming pile
of bio goo on the table. 

1473
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:34,040
And in the remaining five or six
stands, get to the battle line 

1474
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:36,160
and then the battle's over 
because they just eat the face 

1475
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:39,600
of everything they touch. 
So as long as you're you know, 

1476
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:41,399
as long as you know that as long
as you have that plan, you 

1477
01:08:41,399 --> 01:08:43,760
commit to that plan and you 
stick to it even in the face of 

1478
01:08:43,760 --> 01:08:47,439
massive casualties. 
And you are going to be 15 

1479
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,520
points away from losing the game
from turn 1 onwards. 

1480
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,920
You're going to have no points 
on the board from turn 1 

1481
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:54,279
onwards. 
And then there's going to come 

1482
01:08:54,279 --> 01:08:57,520
that pivot at like end of turn 
two, start turn 3IN turn 4, 

1483
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:01,279
where all of a sudden like 
whoop, your victory points spike

1484
01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:03,760
as you wipe those formations out
and you suddenly get that huge 

1485
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,920
glut. 
I think that's the other thing 

1486
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:08,600
to to kind of think about as 
well as how do you pick off 

1487
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:12,560
those last few stands. 
So if someone does play like an 

1488
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,319
elder and run off and hide in 
the corners, how do you get 

1489
01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:19,040
those last few points out of 
them? 

1490
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,760
And that's a really interesting 
debate because you know, you 

1491
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:24,040
don't have that range. 
Like do you keep something in a 

1492
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,439
my sex explorer to drop for like
mop up? 

1493
01:09:26,680 --> 01:09:29,120
That's an option. 
Do you have a Harrod in and some

1494
01:09:29,120 --> 01:09:31,520
gargles just desperate to hunt 
down those last few bits? 

1495
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,920
Maybe that's an option. 
Sometimes you've just got to 

1496
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,080
give up the dominatrix's shield 
and just drop the, the, the 

1497
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:42,439
psychic lash because it's just 
such a powerful weapon. 

1498
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:45,359
And it's got like, it's a, it's 
a like a long thin template. 

1499
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:48,399
It's like a wall of energy. 
And you can just like get it 

1500
01:09:48,399 --> 01:09:51,120
into some funny little places 
and like winkle out some 

1501
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:53,120
interesting standards and some 
interesting places. 

1502
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:55,840
So that's, yeah, that's the 
other thing to think about is 

1503
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:58,920
how do you close out the game 
with the Tyranids? 

1504
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:02,440
Because you, you're going to be 
on the back foot for three turns

1505
01:10:02,440 --> 01:10:04,840
and then it's going to pivot in 
the in the final stages. 

1506
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,200
And like, you know, I guess it's
like every Alien film, isn't it?

1507
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,480
It's like they start off getting
their asses kicked and then by 

1508
01:10:09,480 --> 01:10:13,400
the end you're down to the last 
2-3 survivors desperately 

1509
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:15,880
holding out as this. 
You know, the swarm aliens is 

1510
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:18,160
the peak example. 
Like the marines go in all gung 

1511
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:20,760
ho and throughout the duration 
of the film they get picked off 

1512
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:22,720
and picked off and picked off. 
And by the end it's you know 

1513
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,840
what four people, 3-3 people and
Android get off that planet 

1514
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:30,200
alive, alive. 
Like it's, it's, it's a good 

1515
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,600
reflection of that as well. 
You know, plays like aliens. 

1516
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,600
It's really cool. 
But you've got to think, how do 

1517
01:10:35,600 --> 01:10:38,640
I get those last few pieces off?
And am I comfortable knowing I 

1518
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:42,320
am going to be taking a kicking 
for three turns to this game? 

1519
01:10:42,880 --> 01:10:45,160
I'm going to lose a lot of 
infantry. 

1520
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:47,080
But the good news is, you know, 
it's all in the all in the 

1521
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:48,960
surface of the hive mind. 
What then happens afterwards is 

1522
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:52,440
all the Ripper swarms turn up, 
eat all the biomass, crawl off 

1523
01:10:52,440 --> 01:10:55,760
into the swamp, dissolve that 
will get siphoned back up into 

1524
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:57,040
the mothership. 
And then everyone just gets 

1525
01:10:57,040 --> 01:10:59,400
really made a new so like 
Tyranids never die, right? 

1526
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:01,560
They just get to turn into soup 
and turn into more Tyranids. 

1527
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,320
So it's all good. 
Like knowing that, you know, 

1528
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:07,280
Tyranids don't have names and 
personalities, so you shouldn't 

1529
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,960
feel sad when you know, 50 Hall 
Wigans just disappear under a, 

1530
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:13,640
you know, an artillery barrage 
because they're going to come 

1531
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:17,360
back next week as like the same 
home again with a shiny coat of 

1532
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:19,400
paint. 
Like, I don't know, like. 

1533
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,480
What more Crown of the Command 
content then? 

1534
01:11:22,480 --> 01:11:25,600
Look no further my friends, as I
have you covered or video battle

1535
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:27,520
reports and live stream 
interviews. 

1536
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:31,040
Please head over to the Crown of
Command Games YouTube channel to

1537
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,960
see classy games in the 90s such
as one of the 5th edition, one 

1538
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:38,400
of 40K second edition, Epic 
Space Marine painting tutorials,

1539
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,480
and much much more. 
Follow the links in the podcast 

1540
01:11:41,480 --> 01:11:46,520
description below. 
So I was actually just checking 

1541
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:51,440
just during the break that the 
is it the hairpin that can carry

1542
01:11:51,440 --> 01:11:53,600
5 infantry stands? 
The bio Titan. 

1543
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:55,360
Right. 
Yep. 

1544
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:57,880
Right. 
Yeah, it's got some interesting 

1545
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:01,080
looking weapons and stuff. 
They've got some again 

1546
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,200
interesting looking templates 
for them as well. 

1547
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:08,800
That weird, like stretched out 
mushroom cloud, one that kind of

1548
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:10,680
reached through gaps and things 
like. 

1549
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,760
That's interesting for, yeah, 
for like reaching into the 

1550
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:17,160
backfield of units or like, 
yeah, like sniping stuff out. 

1551
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:21,560
Like, it's weird, isn't it? 
Yeah, it's called a pyro acid 

1552
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,560
spray template, and it looks 
like it looks like fireworks. 

1553
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:26,720
That's what it looks like. 
The graphics on this card looks 

1554
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:28,280
quite cool. 
I've got an energy pulse 

1555
01:12:28,280 --> 01:12:29,360
template. 
This one you're talking about 

1556
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,840
before. 
Yeah, that's the dominatrix is a

1557
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:34,960
little shield wall. 
Yeah, a lot shield wall, a 

1558
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:39,520
little wall of of energy, Yeah. 
And the Bioshock template, as 

1559
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:41,480
well as another interesting 
template. 

1560
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,680
But yeah, it does come with a 
whole host of counters. 

1561
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:48,640
You've got instinct counters, 
spore mind markers, spore 

1562
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,400
markers, and of course the hive 
mind cards. 

1563
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:54,400
Mate with your experience 
playing the hive hive mind 

1564
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:57,400
cards, how many? 
Because you get a certain set 

1565
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:00,880
amount. 
Based on yeah, it depends on the

1566
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:05,520
like, it depends on the like 
remaining size of your brood. 

1567
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:09,240
So as stuff dies, that actually 
gets chipped away as well. 

1568
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:15,720
I had very, very bad results 
with them interestingly. 

1569
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:21,360
So like there's a couple of like
like orbital bombardment or 

1570
01:13:21,360 --> 01:13:25,200
there's like a little assassin 
bug that goes off and I found 

1571
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:27,160
that just bounced off 
everything. 

1572
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:30,120
So like it's interesting because
they give you a little bit of 

1573
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,240
like unexpected like attack 
vectors. 

1574
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:34,400
So yeah, you can kind of reach 
out and touch people from from 

1575
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:36,040
spaces they weren't expecting 
you to. 

1576
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:39,200
But I find like the maths on 
them isn't that great. 

1577
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:44,880
So I would say like treat them 
as a like a a bonus, not this is

1578
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,920
what's going to win me the game,
which is interesting because I 

1579
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,280
thought they were going to be 
like the real like, you know, 

1580
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:52,720
the secret weapon in the force. 
Obviously. 

1581
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:56,120
Then the other main thing you do
with them is, you know, you use 

1582
01:13:56,360 --> 01:14:00,520
them to give orders to 
formations so that they don't do

1583
01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,000
the instinctive behavior. 
So that's quite useful, you 

1584
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:05,520
know, if someone's trying to 
bait out, you know, Oh, I'm, you

1585
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:10,360
know, this unit's going to 
behave instinctively. 

1586
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:12,440
I know that they're going to 
shoot the closest target. 

1587
01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:14,760
So I'm just going to put some 
little sacrificial crap in front

1588
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:16,080
of it. 
You can use those cards to 

1589
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:17,560
counteract that and say, no, 
actually. 

1590
01:14:17,800 --> 01:14:20,800
So I think it's that, you know, 
every turn you, you sort of, you

1591
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:23,360
have to do that analysis of 
like, right, what has to happen 

1592
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:25,000
this turn. 
Those things either have to be 

1593
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:29,520
in sign ups, stood next to 
Tyranny warriors or yeah. 

1594
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,560
So like in sign ups, I can give 
them an A behavior from the hive

1595
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,520
of my card or stood next to 
Tyranny warriors who are 

1596
01:14:34,520 --> 01:14:37,480
behaving accordingly. 
And then you kind of work down 

1597
01:14:37,480 --> 01:14:38,720
and maybe you go the other way, 
go right. 

1598
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:39,920
What what kind of doesn't 
matter. 

1599
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:41,360
So terminates probably don't 
matter. 

1600
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:43,440
Probably don't give them a hive 
mind card because like I say, 

1601
01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:45,640
just expect, I'm sorry to be the
guy that's like slagging 

1602
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:47,760
turboards, but just expect 
nothing from terminates and 

1603
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,880
you'll still be disappointed. 
So don't waste hive mind cards 

1604
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:52,560
on them like that. 
There is probably going to be 

1605
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:54,760
like one specific instance was 
like, oh, I fight, you know, if 

1606
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:57,320
I play the hive mind card, they 
can capture that objective and 

1607
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:00,080
win me the game short, whatever.
But like 9 times out of 10 there

1608
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:02,640
at the bottom end of the scale. 
And so, yeah, you just, you work

1609
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,520
that and go right. 
I know that this turn, you know,

1610
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:10,640
my, my, my malefactors have to 
do this or my X screens have to 

1611
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:14,280
shoot this unit, you know, so 
I've got to make sure they're 

1612
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:17,360
either yeah, chilling out with 
the the tyranny warriors or have

1613
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:19,000
a hive mind card their inside 
apps range. 

1614
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:21,720
So you can allocate that. 
And then you work through that. 

1615
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:22,920
And then you look at like, 
right. 

1616
01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:24,840
Once I've allocated that out, 
what have I got left? 

1617
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:29,480
Have I got, you know, you know, 
can I throw away a psychic 

1618
01:15:29,480 --> 01:15:32,880
attack on a, on a, you know, 
Brandon Spaceman commander, just

1619
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:34,800
in case? 
Or can I, you know, drop an 

1620
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:37,240
orbital barrage? 
And I think it's, you know, it's

1621
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:38,880
that it's that really 
interesting thing with Epic 

1622
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,320
where those barrage templates 
are never as big as you think 

1623
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:44,680
they are. 
And it's quite hard to actually 

1624
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:47,320
get that many units under under 
a barrage template. 

1625
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:50,440
So I think that's a big part of 
it, you know, anyone with half 

1626
01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:52,400
brains going to spread their 
troops out a bit. 

1627
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:54,720
So we've, you know, even if 
you're, you know, facing down 

1628
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:58,800
the the teeth of a full, you 
know, goth mob and there's it 

1629
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:02,440
was it's some 23 stands in a 
goth mob before you even you 

1630
01:16:02,440 --> 01:16:04,320
know, it put a single 
reinforcement card in it. 

1631
01:16:04,320 --> 01:16:07,960
That's a lot of troops. 
Even then, unless the orc player

1632
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:10,560
is like for some reason decided 
to put them in parade formation 

1633
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:13,520
where they're all like lockstep 
rank and flank like a Warhammer 

1634
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:16,960
unit, you're only going to get a
stand or two of walks out of it.

1635
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:19,400
And I in the sea of Goths, like 
who cares? 

1636
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:26,120
Like so yeah, like I think first
and foremost treat them as the, 

1637
01:16:27,240 --> 01:16:30,160
you know, as the order cards. 
But if you play like I play 

1638
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:33,160
where you use Tyranny warriors 
as your secret weapon, like I 

1639
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:35,760
often found I didn't have 
anything to do with them, which 

1640
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:37,440
is really interesting. 
Now, obviously, if your opponent

1641
01:16:37,440 --> 01:16:39,800
savvy and it's starting to chip 
away at Tyranny warriors, all of

1642
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:41,480
a sudden, you know, you are out 
sign ups. 

1643
01:16:41,480 --> 01:16:42,560
Maybe they've killed a hive 
tyrant. 

1644
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:43,960
Maybe you've lost all your 
Tyranny warriors. 

1645
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:46,720
You're going to have to rely on 
them a lot more and you're going

1646
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:49,560
to have to worry about where 
that synapse placement is. 

1647
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:54,480
But it's, it's difficult because
you know, you're never going to 

1648
01:16:54,480 --> 01:16:56,080
have enough synapse creatures 
because you know, the 

1649
01:16:56,800 --> 01:16:59,960
dominatrixes are limited and 
very expensive and the hive 

1650
01:16:59,960 --> 01:17:05,600
tyrants are pretty expensive. 
So, you know, it's like, I guess

1651
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:09,040
it's like everything, isn't it? 
Don't let it trap you. 

1652
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,040
Like don't think it's this all 
powerful super ability that's 

1653
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:14,080
just going to pull you out of 
the fire time and again. 

1654
01:17:14,440 --> 01:17:16,840
And you know, you can almost 
overcompensate with it. 

1655
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:20,080
Like I, I, you know, I'd much 
rather get another, you know, 

1656
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:22,880
mob of three Exocreans or 
another, you know, mob of five 

1657
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:26,120
tyrant warriors than a hive 
tyrant a lot of the time. 

1658
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:29,040
Not because a hive tyrant is an 
incredible, I mean it is it's a 

1659
01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:33,280
really powerful piece, but it's 
not it's not an all powerful 

1660
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:35,200
super weapon is just going to 
win games for yourself. 

1661
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,560
Like, you know, I think that's 
always been the thing with Epic.

1662
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,440
You can you can really get lost 
in the weeds with all the cool 

1663
01:17:40,440 --> 01:17:45,080
super weapons, but nine games 
out of 10, it's the basic 

1664
01:17:45,080 --> 01:17:48,880
infantry capturing terrain and 
having that durability that's 

1665
01:17:48,880 --> 01:17:52,280
going to win out the games. 
And if you, you know, I've 

1666
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:55,720
played quite a few games with my
Knights and it's really hard to 

1667
01:17:55,720 --> 01:17:59,280
play Knights because they're so 
expensive and you get so few 

1668
01:17:59,280 --> 01:18:03,200
models that every single 
casualty, you feel it because 

1669
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:07,080
it's, you know, it's it's it's 
not hard to take 5-10 nights off

1670
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:09,760
the board in a turn that's 50% 
my army gone. 

1671
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:11,040
So I think it's the same. 
Yeah. 

1672
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:15,160
You know, like, treat them as 
the like the little bit of 

1673
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:19,600
seasoning on top, but but your 
strength lies in your mass 

1674
01:18:19,800 --> 01:18:21,320
swarm. 
Like orcs. 

1675
01:18:21,320 --> 01:18:25,560
It's a sea of bodies where the 
the swarm just ignores every 

1676
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:27,640
casualty because they don't 
matter. 

1677
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:29,880
Something is going to get there.
Something's going to push in and

1678
01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:32,800
eat your face. 
And yeah, if you start, we are 

1679
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:35,400
worrying too much about, oh, you
know, I've got a dominatrix and 

1680
01:18:35,440 --> 01:18:37,640
three hive tyrants and a 
harridan. 

1681
01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,080
You've suddenly got nothing else
in your army and you're in a 

1682
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:42,840
really bad sort of tactical 
spot. 

1683
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:45,160
Like looks look cool. 
Look at you with your your big 

1684
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:46,960
monsters. 
But I don't care about your big 

1685
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:49,320
monsters because they're not 
scoring objectives. 

1686
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:52,160
And I can just focus fire and 
just, you know, pick it off the 

1687
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:53,840
board, pick it off the board, 
pick it off the board. 

1688
01:18:55,480 --> 01:18:57,280
You know, and it's, you know, 
it's so funny. 

1689
01:18:57,280 --> 01:18:59,800
Like all of these, all of these 
sort of strategies, all of these

1690
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:03,600
tactical thoughts, they're true 
across every army. 

1691
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:06,160
And it's just sort of it's, you 
know, what's the, you know, what

1692
01:19:06,160 --> 01:19:08,200
is the, the focus of the army 
then is the other part. 

1693
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:12,120
But like, you know, you win, you
win battles by by focus fire 

1694
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:14,640
and, you know, removing a 
threat. 

1695
01:19:14,640 --> 01:19:17,040
So you don't stop shooting a 
threat until it's literally 

1696
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:19,440
stopped kicking and then you 
move on to the next threat. 

1697
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:22,440
Because every time a threat is 
removed, that's like that much 

1698
01:19:22,440 --> 01:19:27,480
force, like force focus or force
appliance not coming back at 

1699
01:19:27,480 --> 01:19:29,080
you. 
And you know, the more of that 

1700
01:19:29,080 --> 01:19:31,160
you do, the further ahead up the
curve you go. 

1701
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:32,920
Whereas if you just put a little
bit of fire here and a little 

1702
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:35,040
bit of fire here, a little bit 
of fire here, you're not 

1703
01:19:35,040 --> 01:19:37,720
meaningfully removing any of 
those threats. 

1704
01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:42,880
So, yeah, you know, 
unfortunately the secrets of 

1705
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,040
Tyranids is the infantry and 
it's the most expensive part of 

1706
01:19:45,040 --> 01:19:47,640
the purchase because they are 
like, you know, rock and horse 

1707
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:51,600
poop. 
But you know, the good news is 

1708
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:54,320
it's, you know, the exocrene, 
certainly the exocrene that 

1709
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,720
tends to be one of the cheapest 
units. 

1710
01:19:57,720 --> 01:20:01,360
And I I tend to run six of them 
in my 2000 points without 

1711
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:05,400
blinking because they're just. 
They're just very, very powerful

1712
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:08,560
artillery with a good range and 
that you know, they are your 

1713
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:11,440
anti tank, your anti tank, anti 
Titan like them in the 

1714
01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:14,000
dominatrix will will bully a 
gargon off the table. 

1715
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:16,800
They'll bully a tying off the 
table, which is it's always not 

1716
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:19,040
like you know, I was worried 
like, you know my worry. 

1717
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:21,240
You know, nine times out of 10 
when I play against or so I just

1718
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:23,800
ignore gargons because you just 
can't kill them like they just 

1719
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,520
they just the amount of 
firepower it takes to kill a 

1720
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:28,640
gargon isn't ever worth the cost
of killing it, if that makes 

1721
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:31,080
sense. 
You don't have that luxury with 

1722
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:33,520
Tyranids because in the game. 
So I was like, oh, I've got to 

1723
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:35,560
get rid of the Gargon. 
One Earth is going to do it. 

1724
01:20:36,040 --> 01:20:40,240
And yeah, you know, the 
dominatrix, the X Koreans, they 

1725
01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:44,880
can, they can sort of bully a 
Gargon a little bit, you know, 

1726
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:47,800
with the right application of 
firepower. 

1727
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:50,320
And you know, some, some you've 
got to be, you've got to be very

1728
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:53,200
specific about where you shoot. 
Like, I always shoot Gargans in 

1729
01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:58,400
the in the ammo pods because 
that's how you blow a Gargon up.

1730
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:01,040
You set it on fire and you set 
it on fire by blowing its ammo 

1731
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:02,080
up. 
So it's that weird thing, you 

1732
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:05,040
know, with Titan, you're always 
trying to shoot it in the in the

1733
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:08,320
reactor because that's what 
causes it to go critical. 

1734
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:10,920
With Gargons, you're always 
shooting them in the ammo 

1735
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:12,560
because you're trying to make 
them catch fire. 

1736
01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:14,960
And the more on fire they are, 
the less likely they are to 

1737
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:17,680
survive and the faster they're 
going to blow up. 

1738
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:23,280
And you know, yeah, I mean, it 
would be interesting, 

1739
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:26,280
interesting to see how many 
carnifexes does it take to kill 

1740
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:29,040
a car, get in close combat? 
Like is there a is there like 

1741
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:33,040
this this mass you know most 
sectors swarm where like like 30

1742
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:34,480
carnifexes? 
Boom. 

1743
01:21:34,480 --> 01:21:37,520
Out of the sky and like 28 of 
them splatter on the hull of it 

1744
01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:40,000
and then the other two kill it. 
Like that's quite an interesting

1745
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:42,680
mental image of like, yeah, what
is the right number of 

1746
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:45,160
carnifexes to kill? 
But I, I think, you know, you're

1747
01:21:45,160 --> 01:21:48,120
going to and that's why I think 
you've got to be careful. 

1748
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:49,560
Like, you know, there's always 
that risk way you go, oh, 

1749
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:52,040
tyrannies are a close combat. 
They're a fighting army. 

1750
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:59,840
If if you only go close combat, 
as a result, you've lost some of

1751
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:02,200
that flexibility, some of those 
tactical choices, because all 

1752
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:05,520
you can do is run in and charge.
And that's great right up until 

1753
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:07,120
you meet the thing that's like, 
oh, you charged me. 

1754
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:09,920
That's cute. 
So yeah, maybe that's why the 

1755
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:12,280
idea of like, you know, one 
swarm doing X and one swarm 

1756
01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:14,720
doing Y is better. 
But as I said, with the 

1757
01:22:14,720 --> 01:22:17,240
Harridins, it's always better to
have two of a thing than one. 

1758
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:19,400
So I guess, you know, it'd be 
interesting when we get into 

1759
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:21,640
like four 4006 thousand point 
games. 

1760
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:25,320
I think what I would just end up
doing is essentially like 

1761
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:28,160
cloning all my formations and 
taking two of them, not one 

1762
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:30,520
knowing one of them's not going 
to get the job done, but the 

1763
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:35,000
second one's going to get there.
And I think it's interesting, 

1764
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:38,440
you know, we didn't go through 
the book like we normally do. 

1765
01:22:38,440 --> 01:22:42,000
We spoke about that before the 
show and I agree, like I think 

1766
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,840
it's it's yeah, it has value, 
but like it's a bit dry. 

1767
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:47,760
But one of the reasons that I 
think Tyranny's are an 

1768
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:52,520
interesting race is because they
are quite a small roster. 

1769
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:55,160
They're quite a shallow roster. 
They don't have that kind of, 

1770
01:22:57,680 --> 01:23:02,200
how's the word? 
Like every Tyrant, it does one 

1771
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:05,120
job and does it really well. 
And like, you know, you look at 

1772
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:08,920
the four different tank bugs, 
each of them has a very specific

1773
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:09,800
role. 
So you've got, you know, long 

1774
01:23:09,800 --> 01:23:13,480
range anti tank, long range anti
infantry, close range support 

1775
01:23:13,480 --> 01:23:15,040
and then close range troop 
transport. 

1776
01:23:15,480 --> 01:23:17,600
None of those copies what the 
other one does. 

1777
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:21,280
So there's none of that kind of 
there's a very specific you can 

1778
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:23,320
tell I'm getting old. 
My brain has given up words. 

1779
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:25,720
Redundancy. 
That's the word there. 

1780
01:23:25,720 --> 01:23:29,200
There isn't that redundancy in a
Tyranid list where you go, Oh 

1781
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:31,280
well, I have this and this and 
they both kind of do the same 

1782
01:23:31,280 --> 01:23:33,440
thing. 
I mean, maybe zonathropes are 

1783
01:23:33,440 --> 01:23:35,760
the redundancy for anti tank 
maybe. 

1784
01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:39,800
Whereas with a lot of the, you 
know, a lot of the, the older 

1785
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:41,960
factions because they've been 
around so much longer and the 

1786
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:44,120
books are so much wider. 
And obviously the Imperium is 

1787
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:46,280
the biggest example of this 
because they're kind of 

1788
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:48,280
technically 3 army lists and 
1:00 because they're space 

1789
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:49,880
Marines, Imperial Guard and 
Titans. 

1790
01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:52,880
But you just take an Imperial 
army and you can you can choose 

1791
01:23:53,080 --> 01:23:55,400
as much, as little from each of 
those streams as you want. 

1792
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:57,920
So they have a huge amount of 
redundancy. 

1793
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:01,200
Like, you know, the idea of like
artillery is beyond redundant in

1794
01:24:01,200 --> 01:24:03,360
Imperial Guard because they have
redundant, they have, you know, 

1795
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:05,320
artillery for days. 
It's like, oh, did you want that

1796
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:06,840
artillery or that one? 
We'll have both because it's 

1797
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:08,360
great. 
Whereas the terrorists, it's 

1798
01:24:08,360 --> 01:24:10,720
like you have one job. 
It's been, you know, and again, 

1799
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:15,680
mechanics echoing law and 
background, like the Tyranids 

1800
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:19,240
genetically modify and breed a 
specific creature, do a specific

1801
01:24:19,240 --> 01:24:20,920
task. 
It goes off and does that. 

1802
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:23,360
And if it works, they go, cool, 
let's do more of that. 

1803
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:25,640
If it doesn't work, they go, all
right, we've learned the lesson.

1804
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:27,400
Reabsorb his DNA. 
Now we make him something 

1805
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:29,320
completely different because he 
didn't do the job he thought, 

1806
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:31,520
which is cute. 
You know, it's a very cute 

1807
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:34,560
again, that that that's like 
whenever I play a game and there

1808
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:37,480
was a mechanic that reflects the
background, I'm like, whoever 

1809
01:24:37,480 --> 01:24:40,800
designed this is smart because 
it's not it's it's that it's not

1810
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:45,280
a dry, you know, doll experience
of just rolling dice. 

1811
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:48,400
It's like, no, this is like the 
story that I read in White Dwarf

1812
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:49,960
or in the Black Library or 
whatever it may be. 

1813
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:51,720
This is literally what the 
terrorists do. 

1814
01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:55,440
Played out in minutes on the 
table is so clever. 

1815
01:24:55,480 --> 01:24:57,440
Like, I just think, you know, 
there's a reason Andy still 

1816
01:24:57,440 --> 01:24:59,120
keeps getting gigs. 
Like I just saw an article that 

1817
01:24:59,120 --> 01:25:01,080
like, Oh, Andy and Jervis are 
teaming up to write a game and 

1818
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:02,680
I'm like, didn't they both 
retire already? 

1819
01:25:02,680 --> 01:25:05,800
Like, but you know, it's it's 
there's a reason people do keep 

1820
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:07,560
going back to the kind of, you 
know, the night is good. 

1821
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,840
There's a reason, you know, all 
of those guys, Gav Thorpe, Jake 

1822
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:12,960
Thornton, you know, Thomas Peer 
and keeps cropping up like 

1823
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:14,760
people want them to write for 
them. 

1824
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:18,680
Partly it's nostalgia, but 
partly it's because they knew 

1825
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:20,520
what they were about. 
You know, they, they, they 

1826
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:24,040
learned the lessons of the of 
the past and then they built on 

1827
01:25:24,040 --> 01:25:28,280
them and they defined how 
contemporary war gaming behaves.

1828
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:29,440
And so I think that's really 
key. 

1829
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:33,480
But yeah, so you know, you don't
have a deep roster with the 

1830
01:25:33,480 --> 01:25:37,680
Tyrannosis because you're the, 
you know, you are the freshest 

1831
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:38,640
race. 
And I think I feel this way a 

1832
01:25:38,640 --> 01:25:39,720
little bit about the squats as 
well. 

1833
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:41,360
I don't think the squats have 
the deepest roster. 

1834
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:45,280
But the good news then is you 
don't get stuck in that analysis

1835
01:25:45,280 --> 01:25:48,160
paralysis. 
You know, I want to do XI, want 

1836
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:51,000
to kill tanks, Cool. 
The choices, the exocrine and 

1837
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:55,680
the dominatrix and Lions short 
like I ain't going to be killing

1838
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:57,200
tanks. 
Well, maybe you can't do it in 

1839
01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:00,360
close combat, but like it, it 
does push you in those specific 

1840
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:04,000
directions and you kind of don't
have to worry about bad choices 

1841
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:06,720
or redundant choices brackets 
except turbo grants don't have 

1842
01:26:06,720 --> 01:26:09,600
me like because there's so 
little in the book that none of 

1843
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,760
it's that bad. 
And again, I, I, I, I believe 

1844
01:26:12,920 --> 01:26:15,240
strongly that the turbo grants 
role is to stop the opponent 

1845
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:16,600
catching objectives and nothing 
else. 

1846
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:19,560
So they do have a role. 
It's it's to stand on objectives

1847
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:21,800
that are worth nothing to them 
and try not to get shot. 

1848
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:25,560
But yeah, so, so I think that's,
you know, that's really 

1849
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:29,320
interesting is you're not going 
to get into analysis paralysis. 

1850
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:31,440
You're not going to be thinking,
oh, should it be this or should 

1851
01:26:31,440 --> 01:26:34,120
it be this? 
And like, you know, 2000 points,

1852
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:38,400
you can't take one of 
everything, but you can cover a 

1853
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:40,480
lot of ground. 
And and, you know, I was really 

1854
01:26:40,480 --> 01:26:42,280
doubling up. 
So I was taking, you know, two 

1855
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:45,840
sets of home against two sets of
term earth gene stealers, you 

1856
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:48,840
know, two sets of extra creams. 
So again, you've, you've got 

1857
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:50,920
that like, well, if one unit 
doesn't do the job, or if one 

1858
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:52,760
unit gets killed, I've got the 
backup unit to do it. 

1859
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:57,080
And, and again, by having that 
like that, that, that tight 

1860
01:26:57,080 --> 01:27:01,080
focus, knowing what their job 
is, making sure they do that and

1861
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:04,760
that alone, you're going to, you
know, you're going to get over 

1862
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:07,880
that hump of, oh, I've scored, 
you know, like I don't, I 

1863
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:11,480
literally can't score objectives
for, for scenario, for 

1864
01:27:12,400 --> 01:27:14,440
objective, like capture the 
flag. 

1865
01:27:14,760 --> 01:27:17,600
I can't break that unit. 
Like you'll get to that point 

1866
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:19,840
because you've, you've 
concentrated your force, you've,

1867
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:23,000
you've identified its role and 
you know, it will carry out that

1868
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:24,960
role because that's literally 
what it could do. 

1869
01:27:24,960 --> 01:27:27,160
Like you're never going to be 
like, Oh, my termagants. 

1870
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:30,640
It's time for them to fire at 
this Titan because cool, they've

1871
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:33,400
they've done nothing like and 
that's quite you know, I guess 

1872
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:37,440
that's quite helpful because you
know, and and again, you know, 

1873
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:39,920
mechanics meet law. 
You are the hive mind. 

1874
01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:42,960
You are the, you know, the gist 
out entity in space, looking 

1875
01:27:42,960 --> 01:27:45,680
down on the battlefield through 
alien eyes, watching all this 

1876
01:27:45,680 --> 01:27:48,720
play out. 
And you, you, you are laser 

1877
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:50,960
focused on the behavior. 
You know what your troop does 

1878
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:52,920
and you expect it to do it. 
You know what the troop does and

1879
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:55,280
you expect it to do it. 
And then you just, you know, 

1880
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:57,280
just just nudge it a little bit 
left or a little bit right with 

1881
01:27:57,280 --> 01:27:59,520
the hive mind cards and with the
sign ups and stuff like that. 

1882
01:27:59,520 --> 01:28:04,000
So it's a really cool army. 
Like we've already spoken about.

1883
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:06,840
It feels like you're playing the
xenomorph from aliens. 

1884
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:10,480
It feels like all those science 
fiction films like it it it does

1885
01:28:10,480 --> 01:28:13,040
that so well. 
It's it's it's a hard army to 

1886
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:16,440
use because it's it's quite 
fragile and it can't win through

1887
01:28:16,440 --> 01:28:18,760
conventional. 
So like, should this be your 

1888
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:20,840
first epic army? 
I mean, if you love Tyrann, it's

1889
01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:22,480
sure you should always, you 
should always play what you 

1890
01:28:22,480 --> 01:28:23,760
love. 
So if you love the look of 

1891
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:25,760
tyrann, if you love the idea of 
being a good big, you know, 

1892
01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:28,600
gripply alien, do it. 
But like it's a harder learning 

1893
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:32,840
curve than I think, you know, do
we feel space rains are probably

1894
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:34,120
the easiest space for in an 
orcs. 

1895
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:35,840
Like that's the classic matchup.
I feel like they're the two 

1896
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:38,600
armies that I would teach people
epic with because they were 

1897
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:40,240
good. 
You know, they were good head to

1898
01:28:40,240 --> 01:28:42,320
head. 
They both do what they do quite 

1899
01:28:42,320 --> 01:28:45,280
well. 
Space means can be hard because 

1900
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:47,440
they're, you know, limit 
numbers, but like, you know, 

1901
01:28:47,440 --> 01:28:50,760
they, they behave quote UN quote
fairly normally. 

1902
01:28:50,760 --> 01:28:52,160
And it's quite funny. 
You know, we've been through all

1903
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:55,080
the books now we've done the 
full run and we always have that

1904
01:28:55,080 --> 01:28:57,920
thing about like, what is the 
vanilla version that you know, 

1905
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:01,520
that that company card, 5 
support cards, one special card 

1906
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:05,360
that behaves like the book says 
they do. 

1907
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:09,480
And and ironically, like every 
single army has a spin on it. 

1908
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:13,320
I think Space Marines don't have
a spin on it and Squats don't 

1909
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:17,920
have a spin on it. 
Everything else has a spin on 

1910
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:19,040
it. 
You know, even the Eldar where 

1911
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:19,960
you're like, well, they do that 
as well. 

1912
01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:22,600
It's like, sure, but then they 
have to spin on it because they 

1913
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:24,800
have the free car. 
Yeah, you choose your Crawford 

1914
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:26,280
and there's a little bit 
different, you know, Tyranids 

1915
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:27,680
have a completely different 
setup. 

1916
01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:30,440
Orcs have a completely different
setup because of the the mob 

1917
01:29:30,440 --> 01:29:33,080
rule. 
Imperial Guard have a completely

1918
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:35,160
different setup because of 
Imperial Guard command and the 

1919
01:29:35,160 --> 01:29:38,160
way the company structure works.
Like the idea, like I think 

1920
01:29:38,160 --> 01:29:44,520
Space Marines and Squats are the
only two vanilla Epic armies, 

1921
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:45,600
right? 
Have I got that wrong? 

1922
01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:46,560
Have I? 
No, no, I think you're 

1923
01:29:46,600 --> 01:29:49,120
completely different. 
Like, yeah, powers. 

1924
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:50,920
Has kind of a similar. 
System where you take a. 

1925
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:52,920
Greater demon and then have but 
it's all results around the 

1926
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:54,520
greater demon, not the company, 
isn't it? 

1927
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:58,400
And they like. 
Only companies they have are the

1928
01:29:58,400 --> 01:30:00,680
Primark unlocked space marine 
companies. 

1929
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:03,440
So like they don't even like, 
again, they're very similar to 

1930
01:30:03,440 --> 01:30:05,000
Tyranny saying if you've played 
Chaos, you'll be quite 

1931
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:08,200
comfortable with Tyranids in 
that thing of like, I've got 

1932
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:11,280
lots of really cool little 
units, but they're all really, 

1933
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:13,240
really fragile. 
Like one of the things I fight 

1934
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:18,160
with Chaos a lot is it's very, 
very easy to lose support 

1935
01:30:18,600 --> 01:30:20,760
because you don't have those 
massive companies unless you 

1936
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:23,960
unlock the Space Marine, you 
know, allegiance through the 

1937
01:30:24,040 --> 01:30:26,640
through the Primark. 
So yeah, it's really funny that 

1938
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:29,600
like, you know, of a game, what 
are we saying? 

1939
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:34,880
There's Tyranids, Squats, Orcs, 
pierogard, space marines, Titan 

1940
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:38,840
legions, chaos and elder. 
Like of that, two of them 

1941
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:41,840
actually use the basic rules and
everything else has a slight 

1942
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:44,280
spin on it. 
The elder then the closest to 

1943
01:30:44,280 --> 01:30:45,840
that. 
And then it just gets weirder 

1944
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:48,120
and weirder as you move out into
the other factions. 

1945
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:49,960
And I think you know, that's 
that's cool. 

1946
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:54,040
It stops the game feeling boring
formula like it makes each of 

1947
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:56,680
the the different species or 
different races feel exciting. 

1948
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:58,760
It makes more feel like their 
law. 

1949
01:30:59,160 --> 01:31:02,640
But it is interesting that like 
what is the most vanilla game of

1950
01:31:02,640 --> 01:31:05,960
is it is the most vanilla game 
of Space Marine actually Horace 

1951
01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:08,400
Heresy and his Space Marines 
versus Space Marines because 

1952
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:10,840
they're the only ones that are 
like normal. 

1953
01:31:10,840 --> 01:31:12,760
And, you know, then you look 
into go, well, that's where the 

1954
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:13,920
game came from. 
That's where Space Marine 

1955
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:15,760
literally came from. 
It involved, you know, well, the

1956
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:16,880
Horace Heresy involved out of 
it. 

1957
01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:18,040
Let's get out of the right way 
round. 

1958
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:21,240
But like, that's an interesting 
thought. 

1959
01:31:21,480 --> 01:31:26,000
Yeah, thought exercise, isn't it
of like, you know, yeah, Epic is

1960
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:29,080
horse error Sea Space Marine 
versus Space Marine, I think, I 

1961
01:31:29,080 --> 01:31:31,320
think the original Epic Space 
Marine box said that when you 

1962
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:32,560
did. 
Have the elder on the orcs and 

1963
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:34,920
the Space Marines. 
They're all based on that same 

1964
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:39,640
formation as in how you how you 
actually create an army list 

1965
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:43,480
until the expansions came out 
and then they started changing 

1966
01:31:43,480 --> 01:31:47,040
how they would set up. 
So I mean, because that would 

1967
01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:48,880
have been. 2nd edition because 
obviously. 1st edition was. 

1968
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:56,080
Pure Space Marines in the box 
they added in the army list for 

1969
01:31:56,080 --> 01:31:58,360
Duntry White dwarf and then the 
1st edition army list. 

1970
01:31:58,360 --> 01:32:00,320
I mean, that's we're not talking
about first edition. 

1971
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:03,280
That's a whole other that's an 
insane system, like all the 

1972
01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:05,880
shits and building your own like
it's cool building your own 

1973
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:08,440
custom formations. 
But like that is has a deep well

1974
01:32:08,440 --> 01:32:10,640
to go into and it's not a well 
that I've like I've read all the

1975
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:12,240
articles, I've read all the 
white dwarfs, but I've never 

1976
01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:13,400
played first edition space 
Marine. 

1977
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:16,800
But yeah, like, yeah, you're 
probably right. 

1978
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:20,120
I think the trouble is, you 
know, we just we always have the

1979
01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:22,240
expansions, right. 
So we've only ever played like 

1980
01:32:22,240 --> 01:32:25,320
true versions of those zombies 
rather than the out-of-the-box 

1981
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:28,640
versions. 
But even no yeah. 

1982
01:32:28,800 --> 01:32:31,560
So yes, you're right that that 
second edition Spaceman box 

1983
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:38,080
would have been would have been 
the the standard version, the 

1984
01:32:38,080 --> 01:32:41,280
the support and and five. 
But I think that the orcs that 

1985
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:43,520
the orcs have their Marlboro 
even in the core book. 

1986
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:45,760
I think they might have had 
their Marlboro even in the core 

1987
01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:46,600
book. 
If I remember. 

1988
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:48,920
Maybe maybe they didn't. 
I was in my mind back. 

1989
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:51,560
Oh, we covered it so. 
It would be in one of the 

1990
01:32:51,560 --> 01:32:52,680
podcasts. 
You need to go back, yeah. 

1991
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:55,440
Yeah, go yeah, go back and 
listen to episode whatever when 

1992
01:32:55,440 --> 01:32:56,760
we were talking about the. 
Core box. 

1993
01:32:57,680 --> 01:32:59,920
Look at how John it's been. 
It's been a fascinating listen 

1994
01:32:59,920 --> 01:33:02,000
to. 
To, to hear you talking about 

1995
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:05,600
it, because like I said to my 
patrons, and I'm sure other 

1996
01:33:05,600 --> 01:33:09,000
blissons will know, I've never 
played Epic, sorry, Epic 

1997
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:10,560
Tyranids. 
I don't know much about them. 

1998
01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:13,560
I've only got APDF in front of 
me to just go through the source

1999
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:16,680
material that anybody can access
online if they, if they would 

2000
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:19,360
like to after listening to this 
and find out more about them. 

2001
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:22,880
But you've given some good 
suggestions on alternatives. 

2002
01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:26,400
And I'm sorry that I couldn't 
think of or we couldn't remember

2003
01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:31,560
the name of that company that's 
in the UK, but it's not iron, 

2004
01:33:31,880 --> 01:33:34,880
iron plasm, ironclasm. 
That's an American. 

2005
01:33:35,360 --> 01:33:39,440
It's it's on the tip. 
Of my tongue I just can't say. 

2006
01:33:39,440 --> 01:33:40,240
Yeah, Hang on. 
I'm. 

2007
01:33:40,840 --> 01:33:42,280
I'm. 
Friendly Googling. 

2008
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:46,600
It's I haven't, I haven't heard 
them around or haven't seen them

2009
01:33:46,600 --> 01:33:47,440
around. 
Well, they, I mean, there, 

2010
01:33:47,480 --> 01:33:49,400
there's just been an interesting
incident where everyone lost 

2011
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:50,440
their website. 
I won't. 

2012
01:33:50,440 --> 01:33:53,640
Yes, I heard about that, but 
like it was a an. 

2013
01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:56,680
Interesting moment. 
I think a lot of hobby hobby 

2014
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:58,680
companies went through that same
really bad experience. 

2015
01:33:58,680 --> 01:33:59,880
They. 
Did because they were all using 

2016
01:33:59,880 --> 01:34:01,840
the same provider. 
Yeah, yeah. 

2017
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:04,680
Oops, it's a bit of an oopsie. 
It was done. 

2018
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:08,120
It's a bit of an. 
Experience here we go so proxy 

2019
01:34:08,120 --> 01:34:12,960
available so the onslaught 
miniatures so Onslaught 

2020
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:14,880
miniatures do the very they're 
an American company. 

2021
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:18,920
They're an American company yes 
yes, but there is a company in 

2022
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:21,640
the UK that used to import them 
who also does a lot of their own

2023
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:27,200
miniatures and there and name is
bear with me one moment caller 

2024
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:31,800
next website. 
I'm just using the mini walls 

2025
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:32,800
dot. 
Co.uk. 

2026
01:34:33,680 --> 01:34:35,960
Yeah, no, that's cool mate. 
I know I have a website. 

2027
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:38,320
I'm sure. 
But yeah, they've. 

2028
01:34:38,440 --> 01:34:39,760
They've they've released some 
really. 

2029
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:44,280
Nice looking designs in metal 
and in resin I believe. 

2030
01:34:44,280 --> 01:34:46,480
I haven't actually got the 
models in front of me. 

2031
01:34:46,480 --> 01:34:49,680
I think Chris, one of friends 
and patrons actually has some of

2032
01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:52,480
their models and he's got a lot 
of the orcs for them as 

2033
01:34:52,480 --> 01:34:55,160
alternatives. 
And they look, they look great. 

2034
01:34:55,160 --> 01:34:56,760
You know, they look really cool.
They're they're still in the 

2035
01:34:56,760 --> 01:34:59,440
Yeah, I picked up. 
What have I picked up for them? 

2036
01:34:59,440 --> 01:35:02,080
I picked up their. 
Grots and I picked up their 

2037
01:35:02,080 --> 01:35:05,880
knobs and their Imperial Guard 
infantry. 

2038
01:35:07,480 --> 01:35:09,360
The they did. 
Sorry, not so. 

2039
01:35:09,360 --> 01:35:11,720
They're adept in Mechanicus 
infantry as well. 

2040
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:13,440
Vanguard. 
That's the company. 

2041
01:35:13,440 --> 01:35:14,600
I'm Vanguard. 
That's the one. 

2042
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:15,360
Which one? 
Yeah, So. 

2043
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:16,640
Yeah. 
So Vanguard is? 

2044
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:17,920
The is the British company, so 
yeah, I've got. 

2045
01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:19,840
I've got quite a lot of that 
stuff and it's interesting 

2046
01:35:19,840 --> 01:35:26,000
because some of their early 
stuff was sculpted by Ben. 

2047
01:35:26,200 --> 01:35:28,440
I used to play Epic with Ben up 
in London when I lived in 

2048
01:35:28,440 --> 01:35:31,760
London, but the guys bought the 
line out from under bed. 

2049
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:34,320
And I can't think of the 
gentleman that owns Vanguard's 

2050
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:36,880
name now. 
Apologies to him, but he's taken

2051
01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:38,640
on, He's doing a lot of cool 
stuff off the back of that. 

2052
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:40,720
And I've seen some other stuff, 
you know, people have, have 

2053
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:41,960
popped up here and there as 
well. 

2054
01:35:41,960 --> 01:35:44,880
So yeah, check out like 
miniwalls.co.uk, have a look at 

2055
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:46,840
the proxies, have a look at the,
the, you know, the alternative 

2056
01:35:46,840 --> 01:35:49,320
options. 
It's, it's out there. 

2057
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:52,040
You know, you can still play 
Epic, which is great. 

2058
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:56,080
You know, they, it's getting 
slimmer and slimmer pickings. 

2059
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:57,520
The prices are going up and up 
and up. 

2060
01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:00,200
You know, it's a difficult one, 
really. 

2061
01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:03,280
It's, you know, yeah, it's a 
seller's market, but we are kind

2062
01:36:03,280 --> 01:36:05,160
of eating ourselves. 
And it does worry me a bit. 

2063
01:36:05,160 --> 01:36:08,040
Like, it's the old God of just 
kind of cannibalizing themselves

2064
01:36:08,040 --> 01:36:10,160
a bit here, like. 
And it's that classic thing is 

2065
01:36:10,160 --> 01:36:13,480
everyone wants, you know, they 
want to buy cheap and sell high.

2066
01:36:13,600 --> 01:36:16,480
And it's like, sure, but you 
realize that everybody wants 

2067
01:36:16,600 --> 01:36:19,960
that, and you're only, you know,
only hurt your own people. 

2068
01:36:19,960 --> 01:36:21,520
But that's the problem isn't, 
you know, supply and demand. 

2069
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:24,280
There is no more supply and 
therefore demand is higher than 

2070
01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:27,080
supply and therefore prices are 
what they are, which is where, 

2071
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:29,720
you know, 3D printing and and 
proxies and variants are really 

2072
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:33,400
the way forward. 
All right, yeah, but if you're 

2073
01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:35,680
going to play Tiritz, have. 
Deep pockets they're. 

2074
01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:38,120
Definitely the most expensive 
army must be. 

2075
01:36:38,120 --> 01:36:39,320
Yeah. 
I think they must be made by 

2076
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:40,720
going by what people sent 
online. 

2077
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:42,720
About them. 
But yeah, but I hope people have

2078
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:46,040
success in either, you know, 
acquiring some of the models and

2079
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:51,280
actually playing them out. 
I'm sure there are online 

2080
01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:54,200
resources where you can actually
rint out all the cards and 

2081
01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:57,640
tokens and everything else that 
you need is for laying this 

2082
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:00,920
faction in epic. 
So don't don't feel despair that

2083
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:02,920
you might not be able to get the
actual original set. 

2084
01:37:02,920 --> 01:37:06,200
You can find online resources 
that can easily represent those 

2085
01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:08,760
cards. 
And my son is called, you know, 

2086
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:10,000
so I'm going to have to head 
off, mate. 

2087
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:11,640
You're going to have to go, OK, 
no worries, dude. 

2088
01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:14,600
I was going to say no epic gold.
If you want it. 

2089
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:16,840
But yeah, cool all. 
Right, dude? 

2090
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:18,280
Well, it's. 
Been a pleasure as always, enjoy

2091
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:20,920
your dinner and I'll see you 
once we work out what the next 

2092
01:37:20,920 --> 01:37:21,960
epic conversation is going to 
be. 

2093
01:37:22,120 --> 01:37:23,640
Yes now. 
Thank you so much again mate for

2094
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:25,400
your time and experience. 
No worries dude coming. 

2095
01:37:25,400 --> 01:37:28,000
On and talking, because people 
have really enjoyed the epic 

2096
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:30,200
series with you on it with me, 
mate. 

2097
01:37:30,200 --> 01:37:33,240
So again, thanks again from the 
crowning command community. 

2098
01:37:33,240 --> 01:37:36,400
And look, we'll come back at 
some point in the future and 

2099
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:38,240
talk about some of the 
expansions that came out through

2100
01:37:38,240 --> 01:37:41,280
White Dwarf magazines. 
We haven't covered those for 

2101
01:37:41,280 --> 01:37:44,560
Chaos and Elder and Squats and 
and Imperial Guard. 

2102
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:48,080
I know some of those. 
And of course for the Space 

2103
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:50,880
Marine factions. 
So look mate, we'll come back at

2104
01:37:50,880 --> 01:37:52,640
some point in the future and 
I'll look forward to that. 

2105
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:54,920
But in the meantime, enjoy your 
bloody holiday, mate. 

2106
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:57,400
Get out there and do something. 
No, no worries, thank you very 

2107
01:37:57,400 --> 01:37:58,440
much. 
Always a pleasure. 

2108
01:37:58,440 --> 01:37:59,240
We'll catch you all. 
Soon. 

2109
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:00,120
Cheers. 
OK, mate. 

2110
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:00,880
Take care. 
See you mate. 

2111
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:02,000
All right. 
Have a good one, mate. 

2112
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:02,560
I'll catch you soon.