1 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,960 But, but Jerry, thanks again. Maybe Kevin, on the crowded 2 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,120 command I should introduce you currently. 3 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,520 How rude of me not to so, but I'm sure people have recognized 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,800 your voice from on tabletop. Now on tabletop, it used to be 5 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,420 the beasts of war and that's sort of, you know, you got that 6 00:00:30,420 --> 00:00:33,700 very fond logo, really awesome looking logo and I think the 7 00:00:33,700 --> 00:00:38,980 guys behind base of War, very tech minded, I think would be 8 00:00:38,980 --> 00:00:41,100 the right way of putting it. They're really into their 9 00:00:41,100 --> 00:00:43,340 computers and graphics and stuff like that. 10 00:00:43,460 --> 00:00:46,500 So when Warren and his brother started that Channel, and I'm 11 00:00:46,500 --> 00:00:50,380 thinking, wow, that's like 15 years ago or something, I saw 12 00:00:50,380 --> 00:00:54,890 Warren doing these really short, you know, news in the hobby, 13 00:00:55,210 --> 00:00:58,570 kind of reels he did on YouTube way, way, way back and all this 14 00:00:58,570 --> 00:01:00,450 awesome. It was so good and it was really 15 00:01:00,970 --> 00:01:02,770 energetic. It was a lot slimmer back then 16 00:01:02,770 --> 00:01:06,770 too, I might say. Well, I think we all were, me 17 00:01:06,770 --> 00:01:08,770 too included. But yeah, they're really 18 00:01:08,770 --> 00:01:11,770 entertaining and they just gave this really nice sort of punchy, 19 00:01:12,530 --> 00:01:15,770 very visually vibrant, kind of, you know, they just knew their 20 00:01:15,770 --> 00:01:18,670 graphics, they just knew how to, how to, you know, run the 21 00:01:18,670 --> 00:01:21,390 system, how to, how to, how to get, how to get most people 22 00:01:21,430 --> 00:01:24,070 viewing this stuff. And I think they've had a 23 00:01:24,070 --> 00:01:27,510 collaboration with Waylon Games back then I think as well. 24 00:01:28,910 --> 00:01:30,950 So yeah, that's going way back when that started. 25 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:34,070 But then of course they changed the the name of the channel 26 00:01:34,070 --> 00:01:36,270 because of the algorithm or whatever. 27 00:01:37,030 --> 00:01:40,190 The sensitive Yeah, you YouTube's YouTube's shadow ban 28 00:01:40,190 --> 00:01:42,230 on anybody with war in the title. 29 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,640 Even people who were subscribed weren't getting notifications of 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,440 videos called guys. Oh really? 31 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,320 Yeah. Yeah, wow. 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:51,680 OK. Oh, God bless YouTube. 33 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,160 To do nothing but good things. Yeah, yeah. 34 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,560 I won't say one bad thing about them. 35 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,360 I'll have to take all the war out of Warhammer. 36 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,240 What do I call it now? Sponge hammer or something? 37 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,200 I don't know. Well that's probably a good way 38 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:05,720 to go. Who knows? 39 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:07,520 It's it's a it's a crazy world out there mate. 40 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:11,700 So I've I've given up on trying to this war on algorithms. 41 00:02:11,780 --> 00:02:13,660 I've just given up on it because there's there's no way of 42 00:02:13,660 --> 00:02:16,060 getting around it. There's there's no point. 43 00:02:16,540 --> 00:02:18,780 I find there are two people in the world, people who 44 00:02:18,780 --> 00:02:23,740 desperately, desperately want to hit as many as they can, and 45 00:02:23,820 --> 00:02:29,020 they'll constantly jump between projects and setups, trying to 46 00:02:29,020 --> 00:02:32,860 always stay on the Crest of that wave, which is a full time job 47 00:02:32,860 --> 00:02:34,260 in itself. And then there are the people 48 00:02:34,260 --> 00:02:36,500 who go, You know what? I'm just going to do the stuff 49 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:40,300 that I want to do. And algorithm be damned. 50 00:02:40,420 --> 00:02:42,060 And it'll go where it goes, yeah. 51 00:02:42,420 --> 00:02:44,340 And I think those are happier people. 52 00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:47,940 Yeah, absolutely, man. Yeah, I think so too. 53 00:02:47,980 --> 00:02:50,500 I think so too. You just got to do it for if you 54 00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:52,420 really love and you're really passionate about what you're 55 00:02:52,420 --> 00:02:54,500 doing and you're distant. Yeah, it's like part of your 56 00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:56,500 hobby. You know, You do it because 57 00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:59,580 other people maybe enjoy it. And that you get to correspond 58 00:02:59,580 --> 00:03:02,700 people online about the stuff that you're passionate about, 59 00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:07,220 which is really cool. But I think that that. 60 00:03:08,650 --> 00:03:11,690 I'm sorry because I'm just constantly breaking up your 61 00:03:11,690 --> 00:03:14,530 introduction. The thing about that is when 62 00:03:14,530 --> 00:03:16,530 you're passionate about something and you're engaging 63 00:03:16,530 --> 00:03:18,450 with the people who are watching your stuff. 64 00:03:18,890 --> 00:03:23,850 That comes across when when you're chasing, chasing numbers 65 00:03:24,890 --> 00:03:28,490 and then you end up either treading on people's toes or 66 00:03:28,850 --> 00:03:33,890 not, not coming at things from the direction people expect you 67 00:03:33,890 --> 00:03:38,410 to, then they just end up. Insulting Internet arguments 68 00:03:40,090 --> 00:03:47,090 like like poor Gary yesterday I've been advised that on on the 69 00:03:47,250 --> 00:03:49,690 artist formerly known as Twitter, Gary Chalk said 70 00:03:49,690 --> 00:03:53,650 something to the effect of war. Games Workshop don't care about 71 00:03:53,650 --> 00:03:57,410 their Lord, it's just copy to sell miniatures which sent the 72 00:03:57,650 --> 00:04:02,760 the GW fanboys into connections. On the Internet, so I'm assuming 73 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:04,760 his inbox is blown up from all accounts. 74 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,320 Love you, Gary, I'll tell. You Gary talks about Legend if 75 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,120 anybody knows if anybody's old enough, or to remember Talisman 76 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:13,880 second edition or Talisman first edition. 77 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,520 I think he did the cover for that as well. 78 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,959 He's an amazing artist, game designer. 79 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:21,360 He was there right from the beginning from Warhammer version 80 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,600 one with Rick Priestly play testing. 81 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:28,040 You know, game developing, you know, So yeah, yeah, absolute 82 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:33,470 legend. So yeah, but yeah, mate, it's 83 00:04:33,470 --> 00:04:34,950 it's interesting how that's all built. 84 00:04:34,950 --> 00:04:37,550 But you know, like I follow the guys on YouTube that I really 85 00:04:37,550 --> 00:04:41,230 like and I I feel like a real genuine kind of guys, you know 86 00:04:41,230 --> 00:04:42,870 what I mean? Who just do it because they just 87 00:04:42,870 --> 00:04:45,230 got like a little camera and they just film stuff they're 88 00:04:45,230 --> 00:04:47,350 doing on their workbench. I mean, you know, I don't need 89 00:04:47,350 --> 00:04:49,870 the flashy graphics. I don't need all the, you know, 90 00:04:51,210 --> 00:04:55,370 it's kind of finger pointing, the sort of trigger, kind of 91 00:04:56,210 --> 00:05:00,290 headlines on the. Crack cheesy click bit headlines 92 00:05:00,290 --> 00:05:01,650 and thumbnails stuff. No. 93 00:05:01,650 --> 00:05:04,650 I can do that, then no. I just want real, genuine people 94 00:05:04,650 --> 00:05:07,090 talking about their hobby and stuff and it's just nice to 95 00:05:07,090 --> 00:05:12,030 listen to. No, 100%, yeah, but now you had 96 00:05:12,030 --> 00:05:13,150 it, you had your own channel too. 97 00:05:13,150 --> 00:05:15,070 And I actually found your channel, but then you delete it. 98 00:05:16,950 --> 00:05:20,230 Yeah, and that's the second channel I've deleted. 99 00:05:20,470 --> 00:05:23,230 I had a way, way, way, way back in the day. 100 00:05:23,230 --> 00:05:29,110 I had one and and it was more or less what you've seen on on that 101 00:05:29,190 --> 00:05:32,390 Channel before. It got naked, except more of it. 102 00:05:32,390 --> 00:05:37,350 So it was whatever I happened to be working on any given time and 103 00:05:37,350 --> 00:05:41,320 I just got. Fed up with it so it went away. 104 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,080 The Doo Doo the other one. I only put videos on it so I 105 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:45,640 could upload them into the project system. 106 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,920 And then last week YouTube went, oh, you can't run this without 107 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,200 an ad blocker. Can I know YouTube? 108 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:55,400 All right then. So I deleted the channel and 109 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,880 then went and subscribed to Spotify because I don't like 110 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,160 being told what to do by YouTube. 111 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,200 I am glad I'm not better of a man. 112 00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:05,680 Yes, but there wasn't much on that. 113 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,760 It was just a couple of videos. So you can actually upload 114 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,320 videos to Spotify. You can upload videos. 115 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:12,640 No, no, no, I can't. No. 116 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,360 But I'll just go and listen to music on Spotify. 117 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:15,560 Good. OK. 118 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:16,960 Yeah. Well that's that's a good idea. 119 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,480 I I I use Spotify all the time. I think it's a great little 120 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:20,480 thing. Yeah it's great. 121 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,200 So even got bull thrower on there. 122 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:29,880 Bull thrower. Bull thrower which is I have AI 123 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,520 had a bull thrower album. I think my brother stole that 124 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:34,960 and and ran off with it whenever he went to uni. 125 00:06:36,250 --> 00:06:38,890 Well, it's a worthy prize to steal, I guess it's something 126 00:06:38,890 --> 00:06:42,170 you know, and those were noteworthy, I suppose. 127 00:06:42,170 --> 00:06:44,330 But yeah, but of course you're not just a YouTube, you're a 128 00:06:44,330 --> 00:06:47,370 presenter of on Tabletop. But we'll get to that later. 129 00:06:47,450 --> 00:06:50,450 But how did your how did your hobby origin start? 130 00:06:50,450 --> 00:06:53,530 Like what sort of triggered you into the Games Workshop Hobby, 131 00:06:53,530 --> 00:06:57,250 or just hobby in general? Well, we have to go hobby in 132 00:06:57,250 --> 00:07:00,890 general before we get in the Games Workshop, so whenever I 133 00:07:00,890 --> 00:07:06,040 was a kid. I was down visiting family in 134 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:12,800 Dundalk in the South of Ireland, excuse me, and I had a cousin 135 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:18,040 who was probably about, oh Jesus, Gary would have been 15 136 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:24,120 years older, so I was very little, sort of seven or eight. 137 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:27,800 And he was off at university in Dublin. 138 00:07:28,310 --> 00:07:31,990 And I was allowed when visiting his house to go and nosy around 139 00:07:31,990 --> 00:07:34,150 his room just to keep me out from under the adult's feet. 140 00:07:34,670 --> 00:07:37,550 And he had a shelf with miniatures on him and they 141 00:07:37,550 --> 00:07:41,470 always fascinated me. And one summer he was actually 142 00:07:41,470 --> 00:07:43,510 home at the same time we were there. 143 00:07:44,470 --> 00:07:48,070 So I got a chance to ask him about it and they were for D&D. 144 00:07:49,550 --> 00:07:54,870 And then he explained what role-playing was and so that 145 00:07:54,870 --> 00:08:00,040 really intrigued me and. And he ended up giving me a 146 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:07,160 stack of old some old dragon and some old white dwarves, going 147 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:12,960 back to the very early issues of White Dwarf when they still had 148 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,280 a lot of RPG coverage. So we get in these scenarios, 149 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,640 traveller and all sorts of things in it. 150 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,840 So I I went to. Dungeons and Dragons very 151 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,280 briefly via the medium of of that magazine. 152 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,840 I never really got the the whole miniatures for role-playing. 153 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,600 I never, I never went that way. But when we got back up home at 154 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:41,960 one point I managed to get my my parents to buy me Tunnels and 155 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,120 Trolls. Kenson, Andreas. 156 00:08:48,310 --> 00:08:51,790 Fantasy RPG and it was a tiny little yellow covered book. 157 00:08:51,790 --> 00:08:55,590 It's all panic drawings and it was like A5 steepled together, 158 00:08:56,710 --> 00:09:00,430 just a little flimsy thing. So I had the the rule book which 159 00:09:00,430 --> 00:09:03,350 cost all of the money which meant I wasn't getting any 160 00:09:03,350 --> 00:09:05,750 miniatures. So we we just played RPGs 161 00:09:05,750 --> 00:09:08,150 without and there was nothing really in it about using 162 00:09:08,150 --> 00:09:13,950 miniatures and the same way where D&D sort of aimed at that 163 00:09:13,950 --> 00:09:15,830 way. So I started playing Thomas and 164 00:09:15,830 --> 00:09:19,960 Trolls and then. Some of the other bits and 165 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,760 pieces in the old white towards who sent me off in different 166 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,560 directions. So it's like, oh this looks 167 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:26,800 interesting. And then with the launch of 168 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:35,080 Warframe was about the same time I started getting into RPGs and 169 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,240 there was really only one, one shop in all of Northern Ireland 170 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:42,400 that sold anything. So every time we went to 171 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:47,160 Belfast, up to the big city, I would beg to be left there. 172 00:09:48,140 --> 00:09:52,140 And I'm sure the owner, Joe, was really, really happy to see 173 00:09:52,140 --> 00:09:54,020 children being dropped off like a crash. 174 00:09:54,020 --> 00:09:58,460 It wasn't quite as bad as as GW because very few people knew it. 175 00:09:58,460 --> 00:10:01,580 It wasn't shiny. The model, the mother's Nick, 176 00:10:01,620 --> 00:10:06,780 it's called in Belfast and it didn't really have the footfall 177 00:10:06,780 --> 00:10:09,660 and the wee backstreet that that came to workshop CM4. 178 00:10:09,660 --> 00:10:12,420 So. So it wasn't just kids thrown in 179 00:10:12,420 --> 00:10:13,780 there because there was literally nothing to do. 180 00:10:13,780 --> 00:10:16,300 It was just a shop. He would wander around. 181 00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:20,120 He would browse. But every time I went up I'd be 182 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,080 very keen to see what new role-playing games he'd got. 183 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:29,520 And I got got myself a copy of whatever fantasy role play and 184 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,800 by that time I started looking at the miniature side, but that 185 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,800 was for specifically for gaming. So I got the Warhammer via the 186 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:42,320 role-playing and then into Fantasy and then I picked up in 187 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:48,060 87 I got Rogue Trader which is. Still sitting on my shelf and 188 00:10:48,060 --> 00:10:54,220 falling apart. So so yeah I came in by the back 189 00:10:54,220 --> 00:10:55,660 door. Not a usual sort of. 190 00:10:55,820 --> 00:11:00,540 I found Hero Quest in a in a shop and and went that way. 191 00:11:00,540 --> 00:11:07,740 I I snuck in by the medium of older older cousin and then and 192 00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:09,860 that was that was the beginning of the end. 193 00:11:09,860 --> 00:11:13,740 I said goodbye to all my money. That's it, yeah. 194 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:16,970 And free time, did you did you experience a lot of Warhammer 195 00:11:16,970 --> 00:11:18,890 Fantasy role play? Did you actually have like 196 00:11:18,890 --> 00:11:21,930 sessions with large groups of people playing it, or how 197 00:11:21,930 --> 00:11:23,490 extensive was that? Yeah, yeah. 198 00:11:23,890 --> 00:11:26,530 Good. Well, when I was younger it was 199 00:11:26,530 --> 00:11:28,810 my brother who was younger than me and therefore always 200 00:11:28,810 --> 00:11:30,970 available to be used as a player. 201 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:36,520 And then some tried to recruit the, you know, friends that I 202 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,720 played with locally. So the people I play football 203 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,360 with and that sort of thing tried to get them involved to 204 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,280 greater or lesser extent. You know, some of them would 205 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,560 give it a go for a session or two or a couple of couple of 206 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:50,120 months, then give it up as a bad job. 207 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:57,200 But then whenever I went to secondary school, so age of 11. 208 00:11:58,980 --> 00:12:06,180 I got a wider couple of people to draw and they had ARB club at 209 00:12:06,220 --> 00:12:11,220 the at the school there allowed me to really get into that and 210 00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:13,460 it was it was all ages you'd walk in there and there were 211 00:12:13,820 --> 00:12:16,420 sixth formers about to leave the the school we're playing 212 00:12:16,420 --> 00:12:19,420 alongside first years like myself and sort of everywhere in 213 00:12:19,420 --> 00:12:21,740 between. So we would we would have a 214 00:12:22,300 --> 00:12:24,980 access to. Oh, the Irish teacher. 215 00:12:24,980 --> 00:12:27,580 Was his name Mr. Martin? You know, access to Mr. Martin's 216 00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:31,940 room after school finished every Tuesday until such time as we 217 00:12:31,940 --> 00:12:34,060 left or got thrown out by the caretaker. 218 00:12:34,660 --> 00:12:39,820 And that's when I really got into role-playing in a big way, 219 00:12:40,100 --> 00:12:42,140 because you could always play games with my brother. 220 00:12:42,180 --> 00:12:47,020 I can always play a, you know, a small game of Warhammer or 40K 221 00:12:47,020 --> 00:12:49,780 or Blubble. Whatever happened to be he was 222 00:12:49,780 --> 00:12:51,620 always available under uniquely 1 opponent. 223 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,760 For a war game. So in some respects it was 224 00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:01,520 easier for me to get a a game of of miniatures in rather than an 225 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,760 actual RPG session. Managed to tandem the two quite 226 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,400 well when I was younger. What what's your preferred sort 227 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,440 of setting? Is it more, you know, D&D dragon 228 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,880 Lance or more Warhammer? Sort of a grim dark. 229 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:16,560 Oh no. Warhammer. 230 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,360 Warhammer OK. Warhammer. 231 00:13:19,950 --> 00:13:24,670 By far and away my favorite, well, my favorite setting of all 232 00:13:24,670 --> 00:13:28,790 time is Call of Cathulu. Absolutely love COC, Love the 233 00:13:28,790 --> 00:13:29,950 cock. Can't get enough of it. 234 00:13:30,630 --> 00:13:34,350 Call of Cathulu is it's amazing. And again it was it was 235 00:13:34,350 --> 00:13:38,830 something Games Workshop sold in the UK and that's how I found it 236 00:13:38,830 --> 00:13:43,550 through White Dwarf. And the work has a lot of 237 00:13:43,550 --> 00:13:45,990 similarities to Cathulu. It has insanity. 238 00:13:47,090 --> 00:13:50,050 There's those psychological things that will screw your 239 00:13:50,050 --> 00:13:53,650 character over, and that was far more interesting and still is 240 00:13:53,650 --> 00:13:56,930 far more interesting to me than somebody who walks in like the 241 00:13:56,930 --> 00:14:00,850 barbarian brothers and just, you know, punches God in the face 242 00:14:00,850 --> 00:14:03,130 and takes the loot and you go, well, that's that's interesting. 243 00:14:03,130 --> 00:14:06,770 But really, if you walked into a room and there was a God there, 244 00:14:07,370 --> 00:14:10,410 would you not just actually just have a complete collapse? 245 00:14:11,580 --> 00:14:15,940 And that that's why I really, I really like the the psychology 246 00:14:15,940 --> 00:14:24,900 side of of RPGs and trying to interact with that because it's 247 00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:27,220 it's just far more interesting. And then every now and again 248 00:14:27,220 --> 00:14:31,900 somebody will license out some form of Kathiri product to be 249 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:37,220 made using D&D or 5th edition or whatever the fuck it's called 250 00:14:37,220 --> 00:14:40,300 these days. Pardon me first one and and it's 251 00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,550 all. And it's all how quickly can you 252 00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:46,390 get to Max level And then people are starting up. 253 00:14:46,390 --> 00:14:48,390 You know, I can, I can do this. I can do that. 254 00:14:48,390 --> 00:14:52,350 And at no point should anybody in a Cthulhu game or as far as 255 00:14:52,350 --> 00:14:55,430 I'm concerned, any RPG really. At no point should you be 256 00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:57,910 looking at a monster and thinking I can have that really 257 00:14:57,910 --> 00:15:02,510 easily because then that kind of takes anything of interest away. 258 00:15:03,390 --> 00:15:06,310 If you're not actually playing a character that can be hurt. 259 00:15:06,670 --> 00:15:09,830 It's like John Wick four. I watched John Wick 4 recently 260 00:15:10,070 --> 00:15:12,920 and. For the last 90 minutes he's 261 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,640 just being shot and thrown out of windows and stabbed and 262 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,000 beaten up and nothing can stop him. 263 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,720 He becomes God like. And at that point I got really 264 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,640 bored with that film, which is a shame because I really like Joe 265 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:27,320 Beck. Likewise if if you look at a 266 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,600 monster and think well it's only XD something start. 267 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,640 I can have up to YD something starts monsters without a 268 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,680 problem, then you know nobody should be starting up a shotgun 269 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,510 against a Migo. Go mad and die. 270 00:15:42,510 --> 00:15:46,190 That's the best way, yes. I I listened to your review of 271 00:15:46,190 --> 00:15:49,350 John Wick Four and I haven't even gotten past John Wick 2 yet 272 00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:52,110 because I think two was a bit of a, you know, it sort of dragged 273 00:15:52,110 --> 00:15:54,510 that out a lot as well too. I thought number one was 274 00:15:54,510 --> 00:15:57,070 fantastic and I I think it's going to be really hard for them 275 00:15:57,070 --> 00:16:00,430 to live up to #1. Number one was number one was 276 00:16:00,430 --> 00:16:03,150 tight. Number one was interesting by 277 00:16:03,150 --> 00:16:06,510 the time we've had four. And I think I said this on the 278 00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:08,750 the the unofficial hobby hangout with Tim. 279 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,240 I was. I was skipping action to get to 280 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,720 bits where people were talking because the lore and the 281 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,040 mistakes that they've built up around their world, which 282 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,320 clearly isn't our world. That's something very different. 283 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:28,320 That's far more interesting than Carrie Reeves repeatedly 284 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,280 punching things in the face or flipping them over. 285 00:16:32,290 --> 00:16:34,730 Actually working out how their society works and how all the 286 00:16:34,730 --> 00:16:37,210 various clans and families interact, that's really 287 00:16:37,210 --> 00:16:39,490 interesting to me. I've got more of that please. 288 00:16:40,610 --> 00:16:45,410 And yeah, as as episodes or chapters of that have gone on, 289 00:16:45,410 --> 00:16:47,450 there's been less of the talking, more of the punching. 290 00:16:47,450 --> 00:16:53,890 I think I said John Wick one is is just about the same length as 291 00:16:53,890 --> 00:16:58,350 the second-half fight scene. Jump for it's. 292 00:16:58,750 --> 00:17:00,790 They're literally about 90 minutes long each. 293 00:17:00,790 --> 00:17:04,950 It's just go that's that's that's one hell of an extended 294 00:17:04,950 --> 00:17:09,310 fight scene and I really don't care anymore for die hard action 295 00:17:09,310 --> 00:17:14,869 lovers by the sound of things. Yeah but maybe John Wick RPG 296 00:17:15,030 --> 00:17:19,150 should be in the in the works. It's. 297 00:17:19,150 --> 00:17:21,790 Not be on the road I have. I have some friends who wrote 298 00:17:21,790 --> 00:17:24,349 some RPGs years ago when they were. 299 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:28,480 University, you know, small pub. There was a weird point in the 300 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,840 early 90s where everybody was producing like in the RPGs, and 301 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,760 they've got one based on a system they came up with called 302 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,800 stocks. So they had stocks and then 303 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,480 stocks light, which cut it right back to the bone. 304 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,320 And then they did these little supplements and there's one 305 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:48,200 called Point Blank Redemption Through Violence, and it's based 306 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:53,230 on the Hong Kong action. The the John Woo movies, your 307 00:17:54,070 --> 00:17:58,030 God of gamblers and saviours, All and better Tomorrow and the 308 00:17:58,030 --> 00:18:01,830 things that sort of inspired both John Wick and Quentin 309 00:18:01,830 --> 00:18:04,310 Tarantino to a certain extent and that. 310 00:18:04,470 --> 00:18:06,710 So I mean that's one of the reasons I want them. 311 00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:09,310 Just to talk more about the back story, tell tell me more about 312 00:18:09,350 --> 00:18:12,830 how this gold coin system works. So I can just go and run John 313 00:18:12,830 --> 00:18:14,550 Wick using Point Blank. Thanks. 314 00:18:14,550 --> 00:18:15,550 Thanks very much. I'll be happy. 315 00:18:15,550 --> 00:18:19,030 No, you're right. I think the Warhammer 316 00:18:19,030 --> 00:18:22,390 role-playing system had an enormous, rich sort of 317 00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:24,750 background law. The supplements that came out 318 00:18:24,750 --> 00:18:29,270 for the Martin McKenna drawings, the illustrations he did for a 319 00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:32,030 lot of the portraits and stuff like that were just incredible. 320 00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:34,190 I just love looking through the books. 321 00:18:34,430 --> 00:18:37,390 I wasn't much of A role player, but I did enjoy the Warhammer 322 00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:41,440 first edition role play because you had all these lists of 323 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,760 careers and you know you have to roll to see what career you had 324 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,160 depending on what race you were and that kind of thing. 325 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,400 Of course, being the dwarf, I'd always want to roll up the Troll 326 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,560 Slayer because he's the coolest of all. 327 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,720 I didn't want to be like a, you know, a rat catcher or a shoe 328 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,120 polisher or something like that, or a tailor or whatever. 329 00:18:58,560 --> 00:18:59,600 But then, you know, I mean, you could. 330 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,040 Wagon drivers weren't bad. Yeah, but you had all these 331 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:04,800 wonderful. Yeah, sort of. 332 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,680 You know that that I think that was just a massive departure 333 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,160 from the the D&D experience where you were already like this 334 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,160 established warrior or class or whatever. 335 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,320 You were just like just an ordinary you know Joe Blow type 336 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,640 bloke or woman. And he was he was sort of thrust 337 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,560 into this quest by the GM and and on your way you went. 338 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,320 So yeah, it's it's really nice to actually form your own 339 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:28,520 character, I guess. Maybe. 340 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,320 It's it's one of the really nice things, not about, just about 341 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,040 the system. What about their their take on 342 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,000 it? The fact that there was a path 343 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,000 progression like you would have in D&D where you were attempting 344 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,280 to go up in the world, but you weren't just going, I will 345 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,000 forever be a barbarian, and how many stats and feats can I 346 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,080 unlock? But you were you were 347 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,040 progressing your story, so you would start off as the lowest 348 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,960 rung who'd throw in their toys out of the pram. 349 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,800 And when I don't want to, you know. 350 00:20:01,330 --> 00:20:04,290 I don't want to collect dung at night anymore. 351 00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:07,050 This is a terrible job. I want to go off and be an 352 00:20:07,050 --> 00:20:08,690 adventurer. And went off to become an 353 00:20:08,690 --> 00:20:12,850 adventurer and then discovered it was a terrible thing and your 354 00:20:12,850 --> 00:20:14,690 career would just change over time. 355 00:20:14,690 --> 00:20:17,330 You go right. Well, I'm no longer a dung 356 00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:19,290 collector. Now I'm a wagon driver. 357 00:20:19,290 --> 00:20:21,450 And then from a wagon driver, you might upgrade your life to 358 00:20:21,450 --> 00:20:23,730 be a carriage driver. And then you think, you know 359 00:20:23,730 --> 00:20:25,610 what? A highway man's life's for me. 360 00:20:26,010 --> 00:20:30,450 And it was just these little. It was a more interesting way of 361 00:20:30,450 --> 00:20:37,500 doing this, and because of that we have a glut of books between 362 00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:43,900 sort of warmer fantasy role play and 3rd edition fantasy battles 363 00:20:44,140 --> 00:20:46,580 that were cross compatible. And they had a lot more 364 00:20:46,580 --> 00:20:53,940 interesting things in them than we see in more modern GW books 365 00:20:54,060 --> 00:20:58,500 because they weren't just catering to Space Marine 366 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:01,010 chapter. Use your space print codecs you 367 00:21:01,010 --> 00:21:04,250 got, you know I want to the Chaos Gods. 368 00:21:04,250 --> 00:21:08,010 I need Lost in the Damned and Grounds or Slaves to Darkness. 369 00:21:08,570 --> 00:21:12,850 And they had it's for fantasy, it's for 40K, it's for the RPG. 370 00:21:13,290 --> 00:21:18,690 And the books were just stuffed, filled with so much, which one 371 00:21:18,810 --> 00:21:21,210 of the reasons I'm actually glad that they've started reprinting 372 00:21:21,210 --> 00:21:24,650 some of the stuff. Obviously the prices, you know, 373 00:21:25,370 --> 00:21:28,900 probably over the top, but there's a whole generation of 374 00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:31,500 people who have never seen these books but have only ever heard 375 00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:35,620 of them and heard of old crusty bastards like myself wettering 376 00:21:35,620 --> 00:21:37,540 on about how great they were in the old days. 377 00:21:38,220 --> 00:21:42,860 And there's an often you get a rose tinted view of things and 378 00:21:42,860 --> 00:21:44,740 then people finally watch the movie. 379 00:21:44,740 --> 00:21:46,700 You've been telling them for years that they should watch or 380 00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:49,460 read the book and then they go it's not actually that great and 381 00:21:49,460 --> 00:21:51,780 you go back, you know, No, it's amazing, you're wrong. 382 00:21:52,820 --> 00:21:57,450 And I hope that people get to experience things like Group 383 00:21:57,450 --> 00:21:59,770 Trader I think is getting a reprint finally. 384 00:22:00,690 --> 00:22:05,330 And there's so much in those books to explore and so many 385 00:22:05,330 --> 00:22:10,250 little Nuggets that are just gone from games, workshops, back 386 00:22:10,250 --> 00:22:13,570 story and lore altogether. They've excised things over time 387 00:22:13,570 --> 00:22:20,690 as they've become less role play based and more miniature side. 388 00:22:20,930 --> 00:22:26,450 So even people like C7 Cubicle 7, reprinting the old warfare 389 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:35,000 books, so being able to get the the horned grass or the the 390 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:40,560 empire books, you two can live out your life in a terrible, 391 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,480 terrible place and hope that you do well before you die or get 392 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,240 eaten by something and never attend any any parties at court 393 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,280 because they're always filled with chaos called lists. 394 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:51,840 Yeah, well, the thing I love about the. 395 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,160 Especially the novels and I suppose the role-playing game 396 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,440 like especially a third edition, maybe the 3rd edition 397 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,840 role-playing game like Cows was never seen. 398 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:02,400 It was just like, you know, maybe like talked about. 399 00:23:02,980 --> 00:23:06,180 In places or you had this sort of insidious sort of idea of 400 00:23:06,500 --> 00:23:09,140 what this could be like, but you've never seen anything about 401 00:23:09,140 --> 00:23:10,300 it. And then sort of you sort of 402 00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:14,540 stumble across some cultists who are praying or preaching in some 403 00:23:14,540 --> 00:23:17,500 part of the old world. And and I love all that kind of 404 00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:18,740 thing. It wasn't just sort of thrust in 405 00:23:18,740 --> 00:23:20,940 your face. It was kind of like very much, 406 00:23:21,220 --> 00:23:25,220 very much this, this thing that was sort of like a, you know, a 407 00:23:25,220 --> 00:23:30,020 very hidden part of the empires, you know, that sort of seeped 408 00:23:30,020 --> 00:23:34,420 into the empire and corrupted. Corrupted parts of the maybe the 409 00:23:34,780 --> 00:23:38,740 astocracy or whatever. And it always had these 410 00:23:38,740 --> 00:23:41,660 wonderful twists and turns to the stories and that kind of 411 00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:43,980 thing and the books and and the law and that kind of stuff, 412 00:23:43,980 --> 00:23:45,980 which which should have changed later on. 413 00:23:47,260 --> 00:23:49,940 Yeah, it was one 100% you you had that. 414 00:23:49,940 --> 00:23:53,740 I mean they would always add something in and you weren't 415 00:23:53,740 --> 00:24:00,090 entirely sure where it was going to go and maybe it may be as on 416 00:24:00,090 --> 00:24:03,170 face value, as decadent as they seem or maybe they were some 417 00:24:03,170 --> 00:24:06,410 sort of weird slanish he called to be really know until books 418 00:24:06,410 --> 00:24:07,970 down the line. Or maybe never. 419 00:24:07,970 --> 00:24:10,970 They'd never that they got to the GM and his group as to how 420 00:24:10,970 --> 00:24:15,090 they explored those things. I always remember the the cult 421 00:24:15,090 --> 00:24:19,530 of the four armed emperor that they introduced with I think the 422 00:24:23,050 --> 00:24:29,720 Dark Angel storyline for the what's the Terminator company 423 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,400 called Death Company? Death Wing. 424 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,200 The death wing story where they had the the cult of the and the 425 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,440 idea that that cult had arisen had grown up over time. 426 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,920 It was just a new way of worshipping the emperor. 427 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,480 But the Insidious Underbelly was actually a Jade's theater cult 428 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:53,600 had grown up and it subsumed the the the Empire on that or the 429 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,880 Imperium on that world. And it was the same sort of 430 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,520 thing in fantasy, where you had, you know, you would see symbols 431 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:05,040 sometimes or there's a couple of crossed arrows broken off and 432 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,480 you're going, well, that's just a couple of crossed arrows. 433 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,080 Then you go, or maybe it's some sort of chaos symbol. 434 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:13,400 Should I burn this place to the ground and kill everybody 435 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,960 inside? Probably. 436 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,120 Well, I get well. I get in trouble if I do it. 437 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,320 That's borderline. I could go either way just 438 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,880 before the Emperor. Very much, yeah. 439 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,600 Get you out of jail. But yeah, no, I really love the 440 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,920 old. Especially the road trader. 441 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,040 Yeah, that. That dark Angel. 442 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,360 That side of Dark Angel. The Space Hulk, Death Wing, The 443 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,880 Apache Indian style to the names and Weasel fierce. 444 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,600 I will never forget weasel fierce as being one of the names 445 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,920 of the guys. They all go back home after 100 446 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:51,040 of years, discover everything's gone wrong and and that seems to 447 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,940 be are being lost. With every iteration the the 448 00:25:58,140 --> 00:26:00,540 more interesting parts of stories are being sort of pulled 449 00:26:00,540 --> 00:26:06,620 away to make it more generic or accessible to more people. 450 00:26:06,700 --> 00:26:09,860 So they just sort of tease out those things. 451 00:26:09,860 --> 00:26:13,100 Death Wing or still painted boom colour, but all of the the 452 00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:15,660 tribal symbols that painted on their armour are gone. 453 00:26:15,980 --> 00:26:17,980 And now most people don't even go. 454 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,640 They used to have black armor. How come they're white now? 455 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,640 Well reasons. All right, OK. 456 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,400 I don't think the don't think the modern Death wing, the last 457 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,960 time I seen them had any of the feathers or iconography on the 458 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,840 models. I think they just went for the 459 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,800 bone armor, which is very dumb. Everything's becoming sanitized. 460 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,200 Yes, I know it's tragic. Yeah, I know. 461 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,840 I actually modelled those onto. Some you know the plastic 462 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,200 terminators. I talked about this with Marcel 463 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,120 and Snake works studio last and the last episode. 464 00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:52,320 But yeah, I see I actually modelled all those onto with 465 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,440 green stuff onto my entry for Golden Demon many many years ago 466 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,600 in Australia and it sort of just got very much to sort of poo poo 467 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,000 because it's not it's not fitting the. 468 00:27:02,820 --> 00:27:06,340 You know the aesthetical Canon now or Dark Angels and Death 469 00:27:06,340 --> 00:27:07,940 Wing it. This is, you know, this is old 470 00:27:07,940 --> 00:27:10,660 sort of styles. It's not how we do it now kind 471 00:27:10,660 --> 00:27:12,940 of thing. So it's a shame because I love 472 00:27:12,980 --> 00:27:15,700 all that kind of thing. You know it is it's a tragedy it 473 00:27:16,620 --> 00:27:21,620 it sets it sets the world's apart the the back stories that 474 00:27:21,620 --> 00:27:29,360 they have and and the like we're saying earlier the and the fact 475 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,920 that they keep changing things that the lore isn't maintained 476 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,280 in a particular way because they need to be able to pivot if they 477 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:37,920 want to change something to sell something. 478 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,480 So if it's not if it's not nailed down it can be easily 479 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,480 adjusted with every adjustment. You know you know something 480 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,680 people don't think I mean marines used to be you got if 481 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,200 you've seen 5 on a on a planet. That was amazing. 482 00:27:55,130 --> 00:27:59,130 And now it's everybody in their dog has them Death, Deathly, 483 00:27:59,410 --> 00:28:03,410 Legend of the damned. I still have my centurion. 484 00:28:03,410 --> 00:28:07,730 In fact I've got two centurious figures from from I think they 485 00:28:07,730 --> 00:28:10,530 called it Giant Day when they opened fifty stores. 486 00:28:15,050 --> 00:28:16,810 Yeah. So when they had fifty stores, 487 00:28:16,810 --> 00:28:18,210 they released the Legion of the Damned. 488 00:28:18,210 --> 00:28:20,850 Sergeant called centurious, and they released special rules for 489 00:28:20,850 --> 00:28:23,890 him, and they explained how the Legion of the Damned appeared 490 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,560 and then disappeared. Sometimes when people of the 491 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:31,520 Imperium were sort of their their most, the most peril, they 492 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,560 this wreathed, Bony, fiery Marine squad would appear, rip 493 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,160 everything apart, and then disappear. 494 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,720 And and only one figure had been seen more than once. 495 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,200 A veteran Sergeant and centurious. 496 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,830 And then he made a model for him and then skipped forward 15 497 00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:50,310 years and then they went. Here's rules for running fully 498 00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:52,070 to the damned armies, including Dreadnoughts. 499 00:28:53,710 --> 00:28:58,070 No, it's it's like the mentor legion. 500 00:28:58,390 --> 00:29:02,430 One of my first white dwarves that I bought myself would have 501 00:29:02,430 --> 00:29:08,110 been I think in 88 had the Ultramarines on the front cover 502 00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:13,350 and there was a bit about the mentor Legion inside it and it 503 00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:17,420 was just like a two page spread a picture of a the the chapter 504 00:29:17,420 --> 00:29:19,820 Commander having his armor put on and explained that this 505 00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:22,420 marine chapter was very specifically put together to 506 00:29:22,420 --> 00:29:26,020 test new arms and armament. They would go off to a planet 507 00:29:26,020 --> 00:29:27,980 somewhere. They would find an STC. 508 00:29:28,340 --> 00:29:30,660 They would come back and go what's this do And then hand 509 00:29:30,660 --> 00:29:33,380 over to the mentor legion and go you can test this. 510 00:29:33,780 --> 00:29:37,060 I was like the commander. His name was something like 511 00:29:37,540 --> 00:29:42,140 Thrall. He apparently had a veto where 512 00:29:42,140 --> 00:29:43,980 if he looked at something, well I think that's going to explode 513 00:29:43,980 --> 00:29:47,790 in our faces. We're not doing that but he 514 00:29:47,790 --> 00:29:51,790 never exercised his veto ever. He always did something and they 515 00:29:51,790 --> 00:29:54,750 had this rules for a five man mentor legion squad and a 516 00:29:54,750 --> 00:29:58,990 special bolter set up called a targeting web. 517 00:29:59,150 --> 00:30:02,150 I think it was where you could shoot individually or everybody 518 00:30:02,150 --> 00:30:05,470 could shoot at one very pinpoint accurate spot because the 519 00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:08,910 targeting web would just pull all the their focus on the one 520 00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:11,750 spot and it would give you massive like armour piercing 521 00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:14,270 bones and strength bonus. And it was just a neat way of 522 00:30:14,270 --> 00:30:18,700 fielding a weird little five man squad and again mentor legion. 523 00:30:18,980 --> 00:30:22,260 Well here you go we've we've got rid of the weird owl which I 524 00:30:22,260 --> 00:30:25,780 really liked giving it just like a Raptor head and it's just a 525 00:30:25,780 --> 00:30:29,260 green and white armour and otherwise they're just a regular 526 00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:34,060 spaceman chapter that's no fun. They want a regular spaceman 527 00:30:34,060 --> 00:30:37,300 chapter. I want weird mentor Allegiance 528 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:41,820 Squad attached to some Buddy Joe army on a planet fighting 529 00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:47,920 because they want to test out some sort of strange weapon that 530 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,720 they've they found in a back cupboard of a stone castle on a 531 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,480 world that's been cut off for 400 years and they have no idea 532 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,240 what it's going to do. So these five guys are going to 533 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,040 go over there. One guy's going to stand on a 534 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,560 hill with a pair of binoculars and watch and make notes in case 535 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,880 it does go badly wrong and oh, it's gone critical, the Sky's on 536 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,800 fire. Time to lead this planet, you 537 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,680 know, that's. Maybe that's just me. 538 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,320 Yeah, it's funny. We we had a Warhammer tournament 539 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,480 here in Japan. On the weekend on Sunday after 540 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,200 we had a few beers down to the pub kind of thing and one of the 541 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,040 younger guys, he's talking about 10th edition 40K and he and I 542 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,520 think he and a friend are playing it and he mentioned that 543 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,440 there are now 26 factions like as in codexes or something like 544 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,280 that. And it's like really? 545 00:31:31,810 --> 00:31:34,370 I said, yeah, I said as and one of the guys suggested, OK well 546 00:31:34,370 --> 00:31:35,690 let's have a bit of a drinking game. 547 00:31:35,890 --> 00:31:38,810 Let's let's, let's, let's call that all the names of all the 548 00:31:38,810 --> 00:31:41,050 different codexes, all the different factions and if you, 549 00:31:41,370 --> 00:31:43,730 if you can't say the faction, you've got to take a big swiggy 550 00:31:43,730 --> 00:31:46,410 beer kind of thing. I think we got, I think we did 551 00:31:46,410 --> 00:31:48,410 get to that. I think we've got more than 26. 552 00:31:48,410 --> 00:31:50,570 I think we went from Rd. Trade all the way up to the 553 00:31:50,570 --> 00:31:53,930 current edition now, and it looks like they're just sort of 554 00:31:54,290 --> 00:31:58,970 segmented all the different marine chapters into Rome's 555 00:31:58,970 --> 00:32:03,690 codex and all the chaos. Different God legions get their 556 00:32:03,690 --> 00:32:05,730 own codecs and you know, so on and so forth. 557 00:32:05,730 --> 00:32:08,250 So sort of they've really fractured everything and 558 00:32:08,250 --> 00:32:10,930 splintered it off into their own sort of separate things I 559 00:32:10,930 --> 00:32:14,050 suppose a craft world for elder get their own ones as well and 560 00:32:14,570 --> 00:32:16,130 all that. But it's a good way of making 561 00:32:16,130 --> 00:32:17,530 money I guess. You know, you can sell lots of 562 00:32:17,530 --> 00:32:20,490 books and miniatures that way, So, Well, that's true. 563 00:32:20,490 --> 00:32:24,050 And there's a it's only a matter of time before the the codexes 564 00:32:24,050 --> 00:32:26,970 get split into more but different codexes. 565 00:32:27,010 --> 00:32:28,650 And they get replaced with new codexes. 566 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,240 It's the circle of life. That's it. 567 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,560 That's what they tell me. So when when you played Rogue 568 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,680 Trader, what was your preferred fashion? 569 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,360 What? What army did you start off 570 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,680 with? I started with the Imperial 571 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,040 Army. Wasn't the Imperial Guard in 572 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:47,960 those days? It was the Imperial Army, right? 573 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,190 Because sending, I was going to say dozens, but it wasn't 574 00:32:54,190 --> 00:32:57,070 dozens. Sending dozens of men towards 575 00:32:57,070 --> 00:32:59,310 their death, backed up with basement. 576 00:33:00,030 --> 00:33:01,510 Because, you know, basement were always good. 577 00:33:01,670 --> 00:33:04,150 The Imperial Army was just so much fun because it just had 578 00:33:04,150 --> 00:33:05,990 bits of everything you want to know. 579 00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:08,190 Grim. Sure you want some squats? 580 00:33:08,310 --> 00:33:10,470 Go right ahead. You want to throw some basement 581 00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:14,990 in in into a sci-fi game with nothing but swords? 582 00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:18,390 Well I'll tell you what the Sergeant he can have a 583 00:33:18,390 --> 00:33:22,520 breastplate and a chain sword. Great, fantastic. 584 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,080 I'll do all of that And and then my brother would sit with the 585 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:32,200 there was like a not a demonic entity space entity generating 586 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:38,080 page and even come up with weird weird monsters that were just 587 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,320 you know just put one thing on the table and just crawl around 588 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,840 the place or float sometimes skinning men as they went. 589 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,440 Because it's just it's like, how could we fight off this unusual, 590 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,170 encroaching terror? Brilliant. 591 00:33:52,250 --> 00:33:54,010 OK, off, off, off. We didn't. 592 00:33:54,450 --> 00:33:56,090 Yeah, yeah, that's cool. That's great. 593 00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:57,130 OK. Yeah. 594 00:33:57,130 --> 00:33:59,450 I remember the Beastman being part of the Imperial War. 595 00:33:59,930 --> 00:34:04,370 Imperial forces appeal guard back in those days and it's 596 00:34:04,370 --> 00:34:05,250 really cool to see. I'm. 597 00:34:05,250 --> 00:34:08,090 I suppose they got they eradicated that later on and 598 00:34:08,090 --> 00:34:10,130 they just put them into chaos, but. 599 00:34:11,030 --> 00:34:15,070 Yeah, you had a much more, very much more entertaining kind of 600 00:34:15,230 --> 00:34:17,670 list building experience. Maybe back in the old days, 601 00:34:17,670 --> 00:34:19,909 where it's kind of just like the Wild West, you could just put 602 00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:21,310 anything in there that you liked. 603 00:34:22,550 --> 00:34:27,190 Yeah, help humans were best, because if they died, real 604 00:34:27,190 --> 00:34:30,270 humans didn't die. So and that was the Imperial way 605 00:34:31,310 --> 00:34:36,520 people forget 40K was very much a fascist satire, that the 606 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,679 Imperium was the worst evil in that universe and ultimately 607 00:34:40,679 --> 00:34:43,400 still is the worst evil. It's that universe. 608 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,360 People go, oh, space brains, push the boys to the Imperium. 609 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:48,880 There's the good guys. Oh no. 610 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:54,120 Oh my sweet summer child. There was there was oh. 611 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:55,480 There were two supplements for Rd. 612 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:59,120 Trader the that came out at similar time, the Companion, 613 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,480 Pendium and Companion. I can't remember which one had 614 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,240 the green lights in it, but there was a great story about 615 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,280 and Imperial planets. The final setting was under 616 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:13,920 siege from Chaos and the the space boards have been cut off 617 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,920 and they've got all the way up to the sort of the last bastion 618 00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,120 of the Planetary Defence Force, the Defenders. 619 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,440 The planetary governor was there with his assistant and it's 620 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,520 mostly told through his assistant's point of view and 621 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:30,080 and they've brought they've asked the chaos cultist leader 622 00:35:30,490 --> 00:35:34,250 to come in to negotiate terms and he's saying no, all all 623 00:35:34,250 --> 00:35:35,970 they've managed to get reinforcement wise. 624 00:35:35,970 --> 00:35:38,930 It's like 5 space marines managed to get in earlier on 625 00:35:38,930 --> 00:35:42,250 today and we haven't seen them since and they finally arrived 626 00:35:42,250 --> 00:35:44,090 and they're negotiating surrender and the governor's 627 00:35:44,090 --> 00:35:47,730 going, oh, I'm sorry, no, not our surrender, your surrender. 628 00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:51,170 And the cults going what? And then they summon A 629 00:35:51,170 --> 00:35:55,450 Bloodthirster into the the middle of the palace for a 630 00:35:55,450 --> 00:35:59,100 better word. And then the governor just looks 631 00:35:59,100 --> 00:36:01,900 up and goes, oh Bloodthirster, oh, we are privileged, this is 632 00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:04,700 great. And then the five marines are 633 00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:07,020 Grey Knights and they teleport in a full armor and just butcher 634 00:36:07,020 --> 00:36:08,620 everybody. It's like, well, we needed in a 635 00:36:08,620 --> 00:36:11,620 confined space, we needed the leaders here who could do it and 636 00:36:11,620 --> 00:36:13,900 we needed to pull out the demon who was controlling everything. 637 00:36:15,260 --> 00:36:18,420 And then the the governor turns around, his assistant goes, but 638 00:36:18,420 --> 00:36:21,180 unfortunately she don't write highly enough to know that they 639 00:36:21,180 --> 00:36:23,740 even exist and just puts a bolt through the back of his head. 640 00:36:23,860 --> 00:36:25,900 And that's how the story ended. The Grey Knights. 641 00:36:25,900 --> 00:36:29,720 What a missus. Because the Imperium just the 642 00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:32,360 worst, that's the absolute so. Imperial Ages. 643 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,080 It's the system, eh? Very nice. 644 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,360 OK. Yeah, well, it's the way to do 645 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:37,680 it. Yeah. 646 00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:39,160 Wow. OK, that's cool. 647 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,120 I like that story. I like that kind of thing. 648 00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,040 Oh, it's it's yeah, it was just so much fun. 649 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,120 They I think they had an awful lot of fun writing. 650 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,640 I think so too. Something they had a few more 651 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,600 interesting things. Yeah, a lot of freedom, I think 652 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,620 back in those days. I was listening to Rick Priestly 653 00:36:54,620 --> 00:36:57,700 talk about it today, actually. In in in in in an interview on 654 00:36:57,700 --> 00:36:59,140 YouTube somewhere. Interviewing. 655 00:37:00,780 --> 00:37:03,300 Seen that interview go up, but I haven't had a chance to watch it 656 00:37:03,300 --> 00:37:04,820 yet. Yeah, have a have a look at it. 657 00:37:04,820 --> 00:37:06,700 It's really interesting. I've always liked talking to 658 00:37:06,700 --> 00:37:07,900 Rick and I know a lot of that stuff. 659 00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:10,940 He's he's talked about this many Times Now recently. 660 00:37:10,940 --> 00:37:13,500 But you know, he's talking about the development of Rd. 661 00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:16,180 Trader and one of Fantasy 3rd edition and all that kind of 662 00:37:16,180 --> 00:37:18,500 thing and financial was still part of the company. 663 00:37:18,990 --> 00:37:21,870 And I think he was, they were given a lot more leeway in what 664 00:37:21,870 --> 00:37:24,790 they could do and they were sort of just left to their own 665 00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:28,150 devices as to what, you know, what happened, what they put in 666 00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:30,030 there, who was assigned to what and who. 667 00:37:30,070 --> 00:37:33,190 And they basically, he said in his own words, we're more like 668 00:37:33,190 --> 00:37:34,830 writers more than game developers. 669 00:37:34,830 --> 00:37:38,670 We just wrote a lot and they developed, you know, a lot of 670 00:37:38,670 --> 00:37:40,670 the law and stories and what have you. 671 00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:44,110 And it wasn't until recently that I realized that Rick 672 00:37:44,110 --> 00:37:47,670 Priestly actually penned in a few stories into. 673 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:54,440 Was it was it one of the was it Whammer Siege? 674 00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:58,880 Yeah, he he wrote some short stories, and I think a lot of 675 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,440 the guys did to fill up. Maybe pages to fill up page 676 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,360 count, yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. 677 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:06,400 Yeah. Yeah, I know. 678 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,200 I mean something that may have been just an interesting story 679 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:15,390 or a throwaway line 40 years ago is now something that the entire 680 00:38:17,230 --> 00:38:20,790 world or universe is sort of hung off. 681 00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:25,190 You know, that full on modern players and fans go, we know 682 00:38:25,190 --> 00:38:28,750 that's so integral to the the Lord that you can't change that 683 00:38:28,750 --> 00:38:31,670 part or that that has to. That's that's the main crux of 684 00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:32,590 it. You go and you have it as 685 00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:34,510 somebody put it in because he thought it was funny. 686 00:38:34,950 --> 00:38:40,470 Like one of my favorite forces is the Dogs of War, I think bar 687 00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:42,830 none. It's probably both aesthetically 688 00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:49,480 and and how they set that army out for fantasy, right? 689 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,520 Right at the top for me. And you go through that and 690 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:57,080 every if there's not a funny story, it's a funny name like a 691 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:02,650 Sarno. The Eldon Lord on dragon is 692 00:39:02,650 --> 00:39:04,890 first of all his name's just Arsenal. 693 00:39:06,730 --> 00:39:10,730 The the, the football team from London for people abroad. 694 00:39:11,170 --> 00:39:15,170 His colours were the Arsenal colours for the away strip and 695 00:39:15,170 --> 00:39:20,770 his battle cry was one nil and and at that stage George Graham 696 00:39:20,770 --> 00:39:23,130 was the manager of Arsenal and they used to get called Boring 697 00:39:23,130 --> 00:39:27,240 Arsenal and Arsenal fans would just chant one nil, one nil to 698 00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:30,120 the Arsenal because they would they would score a goal and then 699 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,920 nobody would be able to get past their defence and that was it. 700 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:33,720 They would, once they'd scored they'd just sit back for the 701 00:39:33,720 --> 00:39:35,560 rest of the game and just soak up all the pressure. 702 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,360 So I think Jervis Johnson might be an Arsenal fan and so 703 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,200 somebody put that in just to taunt him. 704 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:43,080 So it was one nil to the Arsenal. 705 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,600 I mean that was part and parcel was absolutely hilarious. 706 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,640 That's. I love that little nugget of 707 00:39:51,820 --> 00:39:53,180 I'm. I'm sure there are more that I 708 00:39:53,180 --> 00:39:55,100 haven't found. I'll find them someday, mind 709 00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:56,420 you. Yeah, I know you. 710 00:39:56,420 --> 00:39:58,140 I know you're into your football because I know you mentioned it 711 00:39:58,180 --> 00:40:01,580 on the the the dude on YouTube. You talk a lot about football 712 00:40:01,580 --> 00:40:02,820 and probably watch football as you're. 713 00:40:02,980 --> 00:40:06,380 Talking annoys them very much when there's a match on at the 714 00:40:06,380 --> 00:40:09,340 same time. So Tim and the rest of them have 715 00:40:09,340 --> 00:40:11,500 to suffer me going. And this project's really 716 00:40:11,500 --> 00:40:13,700 interesting because I really like what they've done with this 717 00:40:13,700 --> 00:40:16,980 scratch build. Oh my gosh, did you best start? 718 00:40:18,140 --> 00:40:19,980 Sorry, Yes. Yeah. 719 00:40:20,770 --> 00:40:22,730 Much like Warhammer. Much like Warhammer. 720 00:40:23,250 --> 00:40:25,210 I. Was going to say what? 721 00:40:25,210 --> 00:40:27,450 Much like Warhammer, I think football was much more 722 00:40:27,450 --> 00:40:31,890 entertaining back in the 90s than it is now in a lot of ways. 723 00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:34,820 Oh, very much. Well, certainly in the past few 724 00:40:34,820 --> 00:40:38,300 years we won't get into football because I'm sure that will be 725 00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:39,980 the absolute yes out of everyone. 726 00:40:40,620 --> 00:40:44,140 But yeah, the past four years or so since they introduced BAR 727 00:40:44,420 --> 00:40:47,500 where every every 5 minutes you have to stop for 10 minutes to 728 00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:50,820 have a video replay at length about something and then start 729 00:40:50,820 --> 00:40:53,260 the game up again. It's just it sucked all the life 730 00:40:53,260 --> 00:40:55,420 out of it. Let's still watch it, mind you. 731 00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:55,980 Me too. Me too. 732 00:40:57,020 --> 00:40:58,460 Fish. Fish fight hoops. 733 00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:02,070 Can't leave it. So let's let's go on to 734 00:41:02,070 --> 00:41:05,070 Warhammer then. So you you I I take it you you 735 00:41:05,070 --> 00:41:07,950 discovered Warhammer Fantasy Battle, or what particular 736 00:41:07,950 --> 00:41:12,950 edition did you pick that up at? I I was eventually gifted first 737 00:41:12,950 --> 00:41:16,150 edition, but I picked up my own copy at second all. 738 00:41:17,310 --> 00:41:21,910 Right. I have a sneaking suspicion I 739 00:41:21,910 --> 00:41:27,120 picked up my own copy at second because it was reduced and I 740 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,400 think it was just because third was just about to hit. 741 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,560 But I didn't know that at the time and it was a little while 742 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,960 before I caught up on the curve. But after that I went pretty 743 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:41,120 much unbroken from 2nd through the 8th and so pretty much 744 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,400 unbroken it was unbroken. I have every rule set and pretty 745 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,960 much most of the army books from second all the way through till 746 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:53,320 they exploited my world. Any particular addition that you 747 00:41:53,480 --> 00:42:01,740 favour the most? Probably 5th, although I swing 748 00:42:01,740 --> 00:42:06,700 between 5th and 3rd partly because third has. 749 00:42:06,740 --> 00:42:13,780 Obviously you can still play around with the the Realms books 750 00:42:13,980 --> 00:42:17,340 when you're playing third, but also like well I think post 5th 751 00:42:17,660 --> 00:42:21,460 or even 5th is sort of borderline for some army books. 752 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,000 You start to hit hero hammer in a big way after that, so 5th, 753 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:31,360 6th, 7th and then by by God by the time that you hit 8th it's 754 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,880 just hydroblades everywhere and and ridiculous heroes. 755 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:42,720 While I don't mind having heroes fighting, it's always been the 756 00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:47,920 spectacle of big, big units slamming into each other and 757 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,040 fighting was far more interesting to me. 758 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,160 So like the Delta War I mentioned earlier, I have 759 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,760 unusually sized units. So I've got 2 units of 60 Pike. 760 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:05,800 I have, you know, 2 units of cavalry that are both, well, 761 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:07,680 one's 15 strong, one's 20 strong. 762 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,560 And these are not unit sizes that you would ordinarily see in 763 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,080 most games, because they're too big and unwieldy. 764 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:17,720 But I absolutely adore. It's probably why I slipped off 765 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,840 and stopped doing a bit more historical stuff after that. 766 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,040 But just if you could do something due to excess. 767 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:29,360 I once ran a, you know, 78 goals and I didn't think it was too 768 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:35,520 many in my undead army. It's just I did some filthy 769 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:40,150 stuff when I was a kid and now actually as well, they still do 770 00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:43,710 filthy stuff. There's a lot to be said about 771 00:43:46,110 --> 00:43:48,870 having a battle. It's I'm very much the Ronnie 772 00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:53,110 Renton school of thought when it comes to putting miniatures on 773 00:43:53,110 --> 00:43:56,630 the table. If you're playing a grand mast 774 00:43:56,630 --> 00:44:02,230 battle of rank and file infantry, having little units of 775 00:44:02,670 --> 00:44:06,670 five men or 10 men peddling around at the edges, and you're 776 00:44:06,670 --> 00:44:13,070 going, well, that's it's a bit dull maneuvering, but at the 777 00:44:13,110 --> 00:44:16,630 same time, I know a fan of Death Star units, you know, here's a 778 00:44:16,630 --> 00:44:20,950 2000 point list and then here is my thousand point units where 779 00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:23,950 the front rank is all heroes. Actually the front rank, but one 780 00:44:23,950 --> 00:44:27,950 is all heroes, so you can take out some daggers as casualties. 781 00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:35,130 I'd much rather have solid blocks, well formed army, and 782 00:44:35,130 --> 00:44:36,770 just a lot of them know you well. 783 00:44:36,770 --> 00:44:39,450 There's 25 points for a magic item or 50 points for magic 784 00:44:39,450 --> 00:44:40,930 item. When you go, that's four more 785 00:44:40,930 --> 00:44:42,250 men. That's that's a rank. 786 00:44:43,250 --> 00:44:46,210 Give me a rank and we'll do the same amount of damage in the 787 00:44:46,210 --> 00:44:49,530 long run. Yeah. 788 00:44:50,090 --> 00:44:51,970 OK, mate, that's a that's a well, you have you have got a 789 00:44:52,090 --> 00:44:55,050 you've got a dog to war army that's in excess of, I don't 790 00:44:55,090 --> 00:44:56,610 know how many hundreds of models you've got in there. 791 00:44:57,410 --> 00:44:58,850 Oh Christ, that's your retirement. 792 00:44:58,850 --> 00:44:59,610 Plan, mate. That's it. 793 00:44:59,650 --> 00:45:01,250 You got your retirement sorted out. 794 00:45:02,270 --> 00:45:04,230 They're worth. An absolute bloody fortune. 795 00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:08,350 As you probably know. Every now and again I do I 796 00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:14,070 Google the eBay prices, Bing them Bing the eBay prices and it 797 00:45:14,070 --> 00:45:17,910 just brings a wry smile to my face when they're going £12 per 798 00:45:18,990 --> 00:45:22,510 cursed company model. Anyway, I've got you know, 16 799 00:45:23,670 --> 00:45:25,390 Victor Krueger and the cursed company. 800 00:45:25,470 --> 00:45:29,390 Sixty of those and and someday I'll base them. 801 00:45:29,390 --> 00:45:33,780 They're all painted. I've just never I I I fell out 802 00:45:33,780 --> 00:45:39,740 of playing Warhammer with the group that was playing with and 803 00:45:39,740 --> 00:45:42,460 we moved on to doing sort of historic stuff for a long time. 804 00:45:42,820 --> 00:45:45,540 And I got part way through putting together units and just 805 00:45:45,540 --> 00:45:50,020 went, oh, I've I've painted and depth all those undead. 806 00:45:50,060 --> 00:45:52,980 All the skeletons are dead now I just need to mat them and base 807 00:45:52,980 --> 00:45:56,280 them based on them and then they never got out-of-the-box again. 808 00:45:57,240 --> 00:46:00,120 So that's that's something I have to get back to. 809 00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,840 If I didn't sell them from a retirement, I can just retire 810 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,400 and paint them. Exactly. 811 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,040 That's that's a much better idea, I think. 812 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,240 And you have so many, basically. And you know, they're not recast 813 00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:12,880 either. They're pure originals, man. 814 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:22,240 Oh, God, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. Because I'm still still in GW 815 00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:24,720 when dogs were released because I remember having to paint them 816 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:31,560 for GW Belfast for the cabinet. So to staff discount, God bless 817 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:36,000 you, Staff discount £20.00 for kilogram of lead. 818 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,200 You say Amazing. And then they went up to £25. 819 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:40,560 Keep going. Well this is still reasonable. 820 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,960 And then they changed from lead to white metal and it all became 821 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:48,020 lighter. Oh, and stuff. 822 00:46:48,020 --> 00:46:50,020 Just kind of how how much I miss you. 823 00:46:50,660 --> 00:46:52,220 Yeah mate. So you you mentioned that you 824 00:46:52,340 --> 00:46:56,380 you worked for Games Workshop for a period of time in Belfast 825 00:46:56,900 --> 00:46:59,860 and you were there during the time of 5th edition when 5th 826 00:46:59,860 --> 00:47:01,020 edition was out. Is that right? 827 00:47:05,020 --> 00:47:10,580 Was it a bit later the the mess of time I was there in 9097. 828 00:47:10,700 --> 00:47:15,100 I'm trying to remember was that was so possibly post 5th. 829 00:47:15,580 --> 00:47:19,690 I think maybe 6th, right. OK, everything, everything 830 00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:23,090 everything blurs after a while certainly doesn't I drink this 831 00:47:23,090 --> 00:47:29,370 much but but yeah I was in there because I was certainly there 832 00:47:29,410 --> 00:47:34,250 when second edition 40K went to 3rd. 833 00:47:35,170 --> 00:47:36,730 That was one of the major releases. 834 00:47:37,370 --> 00:47:40,090 So I can't actually remember what edition of Warhammer it 835 00:47:40,090 --> 00:47:42,130 was. They just they're lurking over 836 00:47:42,130 --> 00:47:44,890 my shoulder. So it was there for started as a 837 00:47:45,620 --> 00:47:49,820 I was a key timer when I went to uni, which is how a lot of 838 00:47:49,820 --> 00:47:54,820 people get in, and then decided the university career I'd picked 839 00:47:54,820 --> 00:47:59,020 myself wasn't going to work out. So I took a year out and any day 840 00:47:59,020 --> 00:48:02,260 now I plan on going back and sorting that. 841 00:48:02,340 --> 00:48:04,980 But I will say applied Biochemical Sciences. 842 00:48:05,180 --> 00:48:08,580 Not as easy as it sounds. If you're going to pick that for 843 00:48:08,580 --> 00:48:10,780 university people, make sure you really want to. 844 00:48:12,140 --> 00:48:15,960 So I ended up bouncing through the ranks in GW, up to his 845 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,240 manager and they had multiple stores in Ireland at that stage. 846 00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,360 They peaked and then they proceeded like the Crest of a 847 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,640 wave because we went from Belfast, Dublin and then they 848 00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:30,240 opened Blanchard's Town in Lisburn and then Blanchard's 849 00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:32,040 Town in Lisburn. It was closed subsequently. 850 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:35,160 So I think Lisburn was only open for three or four years. 851 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:36,840 It was a very short space of time. 852 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,840 That was a big mistake on on head offices part of that point, 853 00:48:41,620 --> 00:48:44,620 but yeah, that was that was a fun peek behind the curtains. 854 00:48:45,260 --> 00:48:47,940 Yeah, OK. So yeah, you you joined at a 855 00:48:47,980 --> 00:48:52,020 pretty exciting time, leaving it all the way to The Hobbit and 856 00:48:52,020 --> 00:48:53,700 the Lord of the Rings, Not The Hobbit. 857 00:48:53,700 --> 00:48:54,620 Sorry. The Lord of the Rings. 858 00:48:54,620 --> 00:48:58,180 It's Lord of the Rings, yeah, The Middle Middle Earth strategy 859 00:48:58,180 --> 00:48:58,900 battle game. That's. 860 00:48:58,980 --> 00:49:01,460 The one, Yeah, never played it myself. 861 00:49:01,460 --> 00:49:03,460 But yeah, I know, I know. It's pretty big for the Games 862 00:49:03,460 --> 00:49:08,160 Workshop. Weirdly, I have I have the GW 863 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,760 Belfast store copy on my shelf because they sent it and I 864 00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:13,600 started painting the stuff and then I never returned the book 865 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:18,440 before so that that is the copy that's on my shelf, which was 866 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,960 both a pre release and and an original. 867 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,800 It's it's not a bad game actually, although I'm not a 868 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,440 huge it's weird, I'm a huge fantasy fan. 869 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,280 I'm not a massive Lord of the Rings fan and it's probably 870 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,520 because I read Lord of the Rings and when story's good, his 871 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,570 writing's not great is right. It gets very wordy. 872 00:49:38,130 --> 00:49:42,090 It's like he's trying to rewrite Shakespeare or the Bible and 873 00:49:42,090 --> 00:49:44,210 places. So I very, very quickly fell 874 00:49:44,210 --> 00:49:46,970 over. Films are good but I never got 875 00:49:46,970 --> 00:49:48,850 into the game. But the game itself is solid. 876 00:49:49,330 --> 00:49:51,810 And I know this because while I haven't played a huge amount of 877 00:49:51,890 --> 00:49:57,450 Lord of the Rings, they span off Warhammer historical Wild West 878 00:49:57,450 --> 00:50:01,970 game from it. So Legends of the Old West is is 879 00:50:01,970 --> 00:50:06,130 based on the Middle Earth battle game that they they produced for 880 00:50:06,130 --> 00:50:09,850 the film. OK that's interesting. 881 00:50:10,530 --> 00:50:14,290 That's a cracker, especially if you're in Dear Wild West. 882 00:50:14,730 --> 00:50:18,130 Warhammer historical was a really, I mean I feel it was a a 883 00:50:18,130 --> 00:50:24,570 SOP to the to the rules writers at GW. 884 00:50:24,650 --> 00:50:29,330 It was like we want to do these and then workshop went, well, we 885 00:50:29,330 --> 00:50:32,890 don't do historics well, but we wrote the rules and technically 886 00:50:32,890 --> 00:50:35,810 they're ours and can't we? And they kind of just went, you 887 00:50:35,810 --> 00:50:37,890 know what, you can go and do Warhammer Historical. 888 00:50:37,890 --> 00:50:39,770 That could be your little thing. It's over there. 889 00:50:39,770 --> 00:50:41,770 We will never talk about it or promote it. 890 00:50:42,930 --> 00:50:46,010 Just get out of your system. And it was people like Jervis 891 00:50:46,010 --> 00:50:52,210 Johnson and John Stellar and the Perry's and people like that who 892 00:50:52,210 --> 00:50:56,330 just went. I really like Napoleonics or 893 00:50:56,330 --> 00:51:00,490 Ancients or whatever, and so the people have never seen Warhammer 894 00:51:00,850 --> 00:51:03,570 Each Battles. It's a music system that was 895 00:51:03,570 --> 00:51:05,930 based on more or less sort of 4th edition. 896 00:51:07,170 --> 00:51:10,930 And that that got me into the historic gaming side in a big 897 00:51:10,930 --> 00:51:14,090 way because I have most of this. I don't have Trafalgar, so I 898 00:51:14,090 --> 00:51:17,650 don't really care about boots, but I have a lot of the other 899 00:51:17,650 --> 00:51:22,050 Warhammer historic stuff. And when it started, if you 900 00:51:22,050 --> 00:51:25,600 wanted copies, the very first publication of Warhammer Engine 901 00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,800 Battles, you would phone head office and would ask to be put 902 00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,040 through to either Jervis Johnson or The Perrys, who literally had 903 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,120 boxes sitting in their office wherever they were working. 904 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,280 You know, I'd like to buy a copy of whatever Engine Battles, 905 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,800 please, Alan, and then, you know, send a cheque through and 906 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:43,600 they would package it up and send it off because it was 907 00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,080 separate from, you know, we can't let them be. 908 00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,120 A lot of trolls do this because this is getting in the way of 909 00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,120 their real job. If you guys want to write it and 910 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:54,200 sell it, that's all on you. It was so bizarre in a fanboy 911 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,200 way. Yeah, of of of phoning up and 912 00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,440 and asking, you know, asking the writer, can I buy a copy of your 913 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,920 book, please? That's right. 914 00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:03,440 I know. It's. 915 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,440 I know it's a completely separate thing and it's a bit of 916 00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,200 a passion project I think, for those guys, because they finally 917 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:12,160 get back to their final like their roots of war gaming and do 918 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,160 some historical stuff. I actually played it and it 919 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,800 wasn't a bad game. I painted 80 hairy naked 920 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,400 Germans. The Ancients. 921 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:21,840 Yeah, for the ancient setting and. 922 00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:25,950 Yeah, I don't really want to take another naked German ever 923 00:52:25,950 --> 00:52:29,750 again in my life, but I did play it and it wasn't a bad game. 924 00:52:29,790 --> 00:52:32,510 And yeah, it is based on the sort of early editions of 925 00:52:32,510 --> 00:52:35,350 Warhammer. Yeah, yeah, that's probably one 926 00:52:35,350 --> 00:52:38,830 of the reasons why I liked it As far as as far as ancient rule 927 00:52:38,830 --> 00:52:44,910 sets go, it still has a massive popular following behind it, but 928 00:52:44,910 --> 00:52:48,830 I moved away as far as my own. Historic and ancient gaming went 929 00:52:49,510 --> 00:52:51,750 into different directions, but it was a it was a nice foot in 930 00:52:51,750 --> 00:52:55,990 the door because there's always that, there's the accessibility 931 00:52:55,990 --> 00:53:00,150 of game to our chop. Their games are everywhere. 932 00:53:00,150 --> 00:53:02,630 If people Google Wargaming, it'll probably be right at the 933 00:53:02,630 --> 00:53:06,470 top and then going. But I really want to do, I've 934 00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:09,030 just watched Gladiator and I really want to do Romans against 935 00:53:09,590 --> 00:53:12,630 naked German Barbarians. How do I do that? 936 00:53:12,790 --> 00:53:16,220 And then you go Romans against barbarian Warhammer. 937 00:53:16,220 --> 00:53:19,860 You know, ancient rule set and pages of Pompey. 938 00:53:19,860 --> 00:53:22,220 You know everybody has written one and then you're left going, 939 00:53:22,220 --> 00:53:26,060 but which one's the best? Whereas because Warhammer 940 00:53:26,060 --> 00:53:29,300 ancients just used the sort of the early iterations of 941 00:53:29,300 --> 00:53:32,900 Warhammer, apparently Warhammer itself was based on a an 942 00:53:33,300 --> 00:53:37,100 ancients rule set that one of the guys had been tinkering with 943 00:53:37,100 --> 00:53:41,340 and then had been fantasified. So Warhammer Ancients is kind of 944 00:53:41,340 --> 00:53:45,130 a going full circle again, but it it meant you could go, well, 945 00:53:45,290 --> 00:53:50,450 here's the system I know, ergo I should be able to get into these 946 00:53:51,050 --> 00:53:54,210 these games quite easily. Interesting. 947 00:53:54,210 --> 00:53:54,850 Yeah. So what? 948 00:53:54,850 --> 00:53:57,570 What's on your hobby right now? Like, what kind of games do you 949 00:53:57,570 --> 00:54:02,610 enjoy playing these days? Fantasy has always been my 950 00:54:02,610 --> 00:54:11,940 passion and these days I mostly go Kings of War, which will 951 00:54:11,940 --> 00:54:13,900 probably, I don't know if it'll upset people, but who cares. 952 00:54:15,460 --> 00:54:18,060 It was weird. Kings of War Kings of War came 953 00:54:18,060 --> 00:54:22,700 around at a time when I was still I was part of the Northern 954 00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:28,180 Wasters who were big Fantasy warmer Fantasy Battle Tournament 955 00:54:28,300 --> 00:54:30,740 side from Northern Ireland. They were also the Northern 956 00:54:30,740 --> 00:54:34,140 Ireland DTC team because there's not many people in Northern 957 00:54:34,140 --> 00:54:35,860 Ireland prepared to travel to play games. 958 00:54:36,420 --> 00:54:41,590 So I was always playing War Armor and we'd hit 8th edition. 959 00:54:41,590 --> 00:54:43,550 Actually, we were coming up to 8th edition being released. 960 00:54:43,550 --> 00:54:45,270 We knew it was coming, didn't know what it was going to be 961 00:54:45,270 --> 00:54:47,950 like. And my own little grip, it was 962 00:54:47,950 --> 00:54:51,670 like, you know what? I'm going to, I'm just going to 963 00:54:51,670 --> 00:54:53,670 buy everything. I'll get every army book that 964 00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:55,790 comes out. I'm not buying anyone after 965 00:54:55,790 --> 00:54:57,030 this. I don't care about 9th edition 966 00:54:57,030 --> 00:55:00,050 or anything else that appears. We're going to stop at 8th and 967 00:55:00,050 --> 00:55:02,250 if 8th isn't doing it for us then we can go back to one of 968 00:55:02,250 --> 00:55:06,290 the earlier ones. But the 4/5 year cycle of buying 969 00:55:06,290 --> 00:55:09,810 every book again is starting to annoy me and and sometimes 970 00:55:09,810 --> 00:55:12,610 you're buying it for no real change. 6th and 7th was. 971 00:55:12,610 --> 00:55:17,250 I think they changed 3 words and moved a comment and replaced 972 00:55:17,250 --> 00:55:19,770 with full stop. There wasn't really a massive 973 00:55:19,770 --> 00:55:21,490 change in it. So you know you're buying, 974 00:55:21,530 --> 00:55:23,810 you're buying a rule set for the sake of buying a rule set. 975 00:55:24,370 --> 00:55:27,470 So even before it was launched and before they built the old 976 00:55:27,470 --> 00:55:30,310 world, that was going to be our stopping point and then they 977 00:55:30,310 --> 00:55:33,070 built the world and said, well, glad I glad I did that now and 978 00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:38,350 then afterwards I was like you know what the the 8th system 979 00:55:38,350 --> 00:55:43,310 wasn't working. All the systems were better, but 980 00:55:43,470 --> 00:55:46,190 smaller footprints, smaller model can't really. 981 00:55:46,550 --> 00:55:51,470 Do you have this sort of expanding frontage if you want 982 00:55:51,470 --> 00:55:55,800 to think of it like that for Warhammer Ware, first the third 983 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,600 were very small forces, you know 50-60 models. 984 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,120 That was the sort of the style of the things. 985 00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:04,560 And then as time went on, it went from that sort of 50 inch 986 00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,800 models up to 2 to 300, You know, it's like how many models can 987 00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,680 you pack on half the points increase the the model count. 988 00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:17,080 And so for a while I was running Warhammer armies and then I'd 989 00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:19,200 picked up Mantic. It just started. 990 00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:23,380 So I'd started picking up the dwarves and I'm dead for 991 00:56:23,380 --> 00:56:25,580 fantasy. So a lot of my early mantic 992 00:56:25,580 --> 00:56:29,620 stuff, so individual base and so I was pre ordering things like 993 00:56:29,620 --> 00:56:30,780 the worst berserkers and the like. 994 00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:34,060 So I was there before Kings of War was a thing and then they 995 00:56:34,060 --> 00:56:36,540 started putting in the little four page, Here's our little 996 00:56:36,540 --> 00:56:38,740 mini Kings of War rules that think coming. 997 00:56:39,140 --> 00:56:42,980 And then it was the very first Kickstarter I ever backed was 998 00:56:42,980 --> 00:56:45,900 Kings of War when they decided to release their first edition, 999 00:56:45,900 --> 00:56:47,860 and we're looking for funding for that. 1000 00:56:49,620 --> 00:56:53,440 And as far as the mass battle game goes for fantasy, it does 1001 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,280 what I what I wanted the later editions of Warhammer to do, 1002 00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,600 which is to have that grand scale loads of figures on the 1003 00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,760 table, but magic not be all-encompassing and heroes not 1004 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,640 be all-encompassing. The real fight is the fight of 1005 00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,440 the armies and magic gives a little nudge here. 1006 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,440 Or heroes can support the units but can't take off a unit by 1007 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,440 themselves. So. 1008 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,680 So at one stage I had two dwarf armies, A mantic one for Kings 1009 00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:26,560 of War and a GW slash mantic one for Warhammer, and likewise I 1010 00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:32,120 had my own death doubled. I doubled up on 3 armies and 1011 00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,480 then I looked at myself at one point where why the fuck am I 1012 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,120 doing this? Why am I? 1013 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,840 Why am I buying and painting two sets? 1014 00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:44,780 I mean theoretically I can just play either or or I can play in 1015 00:57:44,980 --> 00:57:48,660 one army in both, but I just I wanted to keep them separate at 1016 00:57:48,660 --> 00:57:51,700 one point. You know GW stuff stays with GW 1017 00:57:51,700 --> 00:57:52,860 and Mantic stuff stays with Mantic. 1018 00:57:52,860 --> 00:57:56,380 And I was like you know what this this game just works for me 1019 00:57:56,380 --> 00:58:01,780 for pushing Pike forward and slamming big blocks of of 1020 00:58:01,860 --> 00:58:07,100 cavalry at the people. So I just went the the way of of 1021 00:58:07,100 --> 00:58:08,460 kings of war. Since then good to. 1022 00:58:09,620 --> 00:58:11,220 Hear man, haven't you joined? Then that's good. 1023 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,320 Yeah, that's not to say I won't go back to Warhammer at some 1024 00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,960 point because like I said, I'm still with that big dog to war 1025 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:22,880 me and I have a huge tub of marauder LED dark elves 1026 00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:26,120 including dark elf witches. Matches on temple dogs. 1027 00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:29,520 Do you remember the temple dogs? Remember when Foo were a thing? 1028 00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,200 I'm sure that that would probably be a tasty penny on the 1029 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:34,240 old flea Bay as well. I. 1030 00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:36,160 Bet. So yeah, I was actually eyeing 1031 00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,240 off some of the old Marauder Dark Elves. 1032 00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:40,360 I still think it's the best range they ever made. 1033 00:58:41,010 --> 00:58:45,490 I was never a fan of the later models for 4th edition, but I 1034 00:58:45,570 --> 00:58:48,850 think the 3rd edition ones are just beautiful. 3rd edition is 1035 00:58:48,850 --> 00:58:49,850 stunning. And that's it. 1036 00:58:50,370 --> 00:58:53,210 They're all stripped. They're all original legs. 1037 00:58:53,210 --> 00:58:56,050 They're all mine and they're sitting in a big tub waiting for 1038 00:58:56,050 --> 00:58:59,410 me to come and rescue them and and put them on and pry them and 1039 00:58:59,410 --> 00:59:03,490 pin them up and I and what I do, It's by God, though people will. 1040 00:59:03,530 --> 00:59:06,530 People will start to bask in the metallic green and metallic 1041 00:59:06,530 --> 00:59:09,530 purples that I shall apply my amethyst. 1042 00:59:09,530 --> 00:59:13,250 Purple is still liquid in its pot, shockingly, even after all 1043 00:59:13,250 --> 00:59:16,410 these decades. So there'll be new, there'll be 1044 00:59:16,410 --> 00:59:18,570 new modern techniques there. It'll all be old. 1045 00:59:19,010 --> 00:59:20,690 Good to hear. That's a good question. 1046 00:59:20,690 --> 00:59:22,090 Actually, you mentioned a couple of things. 1047 00:59:22,090 --> 00:59:24,050 Kickstarter. Is it a curse or a blessing? 1048 00:59:28,330 --> 00:59:30,250 Do I want to give the minimize both answer? 1049 00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:32,870 I think I may have. I may have talked about this 1050 00:59:32,870 --> 00:59:33,350 recently. Oh, I. 1051 00:59:33,990 --> 00:59:35,310 Think you have. You've had it. 1052 00:59:35,310 --> 00:59:36,910 You've had it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1053 00:59:37,430 --> 00:59:39,350 Yeah. Well, I'm not happy drinking for 1054 00:59:39,350 --> 00:59:40,950 four hours, so I'll stream myself on this one. 1055 00:59:41,670 --> 00:59:45,990 It's a it's a blessing for smaller companies in that the 1056 00:59:47,550 --> 00:59:49,590 thing Kickstarter does is twofold. 1057 00:59:51,590 --> 00:59:58,310 It tells you whether or not there is a a product that people 1058 00:59:58,310 --> 01:00:01,640 want. And at the same time it also 1059 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:06,000 promotes that product far beyond the reach that a lot of 1060 01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,680 companies could do, because even the I think it's between 10 and 1061 01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:18,960 15% Kickstarter taking fees advertising wise that is not a 1062 01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,480 drop in the ocean. If if a company do, I've got a 1063 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,760 new game or a new miniatures range and I want to go and 1064 01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,600 advertise it and they want to advertise it on Base of War and 1065 01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:33,480 Daka Daka and send it off to Angry Joe or Asha Gorilla, you 1066 01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:38,440 know there are big prices behind those which people may not 1067 01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,400 realise. So being able to go it's going 1068 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:45,080 to cost 5 grand to make and they're going to take 10% of the 1069 01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,920 fees or 15% of fees. But that the fact that 1070 01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:50,720 Kickstarter will push that themselves and do the whole 1071 01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,000 projects you love and that sort of thing that's worth its weight 1072 01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,880 in gold cannot devalue that at all. 1073 01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:05,720 However, subsequent to that, in the past ten years and certainly 1074 01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,040 in the past five, it's really changed into becoming a massive 1075 01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,920 pre ordering system and a massive pre ordering system for 1076 01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:16,000 some big big companies and they they put it up as like a mark of 1077 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,600 honor. This made 3 million, this made 1078 01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,240 1/4 of 1,000,015 minutes, that sort of thing. 1079 01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:26,120 And at that point all I can think is why are you on here? 1080 01:01:26,860 --> 01:01:30,260 Why is Coleman here not a website for reading people's 1081 01:01:30,260 --> 01:01:37,780 paying jobs pushing zombie side 57 on there when there's you 1082 01:01:37,780 --> 01:01:43,220 know a small one man operation who's been hand sculpting some 1083 01:01:43,220 --> 01:01:47,540 stuff and needs £300 to get molds made, you know, and they 1084 01:01:47,540 --> 01:01:52,140 can't get the bite of day because all all the oxygen has 1085 01:01:52,140 --> 01:01:54,940 been sucked out of the room by these massive beer moths. 1086 01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,080 He really don't need it and that it's got to a point. 1087 01:01:58,080 --> 01:02:03,440 And I think I mentioned this about towards yeah, Jamie 1088 01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:07,000 Tranter he wants to do a second range of miniatures. 1089 01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:12,240 He did a set of World War 228 mil Polish which are absolutely 1090 01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:14,120 stunning. I have the full set and great 1091 01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,200 for bold action players. Any bold action players listen 1092 01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,480 to this should go and have a look for Jamie Tranter's polls. 1093 01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,520 If you haven't seen them, they're fucking phenomenal. 1094 01:02:25,020 --> 01:02:29,220 But he has subsequently been attempting to get a set of 40 1095 01:02:29,220 --> 01:02:32,180 odd towards to Kickstarter for about three or four years now. 1096 01:02:32,820 --> 01:02:36,980 Brexit came in. When the Sculptor started 1097 01:02:36,980 --> 01:02:41,500 sculpting them, there was no Brexit, so he was due to ship 1098 01:02:41,500 --> 01:02:43,900 them from Spain to England. That was going to be fine. 1099 01:02:43,900 --> 01:02:46,180 Then Brexit arrived. The Sculptor finished them, sent 1100 01:02:46,180 --> 01:02:48,380 them. Jamie ended up having to spend 1101 01:02:48,660 --> 01:02:51,420 like two or three months worth of wages to get them out of 1102 01:02:51,420 --> 01:02:55,140 customs because of the value of them because they now had to pay 1103 01:02:55,140 --> 01:02:57,660 those. So that delayed it and then and 1104 01:02:57,660 --> 01:02:59,740 then he was going well there's some break just I need to get 1105 01:02:59,740 --> 01:03:03,860 them back to him to fix them and bring them back and and the idea 1106 01:03:03,900 --> 01:03:07,980 is he's got a set of beautiful like 40 or 50 dwarf models with 1107 01:03:07,980 --> 01:03:11,380 a very 3rd, 4th edition toward feel. 1108 01:03:11,380 --> 01:03:14,980 They they look like marauder dwarves from that period and 1109 01:03:14,980 --> 01:03:18,940 they look absolutely gorgeous and and he's going but I can't 1110 01:03:18,940 --> 01:03:22,860 launch the Kickstarter until I've already got the bulls made. 1111 01:03:23,620 --> 01:03:26,340 I've already got a professional painter to paint them. 1112 01:03:26,700 --> 01:03:28,620 I've got photography. I've got this. 1113 01:03:28,620 --> 01:03:32,900 I've got this and going but at that stage you what you need the 1114 01:03:32,900 --> 01:03:35,540 Kickstarter for and that's the Kickstarter has just become a 1115 01:03:35,540 --> 01:03:38,420 pre-order. What he should be doing is 1116 01:03:38,420 --> 01:03:40,460 going. I've got these 40 odd miniatures 1117 01:03:40,660 --> 01:03:43,180 done. Here's the greens that they look 1118 01:03:43,180 --> 01:03:45,900 phenomenal. I need you to help to get them 1119 01:03:45,900 --> 01:03:49,220 over the line. I need you to get the molds made 1120 01:03:49,220 --> 01:03:54,240 and get the casts made and then shipped out to you, but that's 1121 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,160 not the way people see tick starter these days. 1122 01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:01,840 If if you're not already 100% done and have no reason to be 1123 01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:06,360 there, people with super backer in brackets beside their name 1124 01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,240 start getting into the comments bitching going. 1125 01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:13,800 I expect to see the completely written rule set and play tests 1126 01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,560 done and a free PDF download of the rules that you want us to 1127 01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:21,760 buy in advance. Or I want to see that and it's 1128 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:26,140 it's this idea because big companies have come in and and 1129 01:04:26,140 --> 01:04:28,980 went here's our stuff, our stuff's all done, ready to go. 1130 01:04:28,980 --> 01:04:31,180 We just need you to buy it essentially. 1131 01:04:31,340 --> 01:04:33,980 You know that's not what Kickstarter was ever supposed to 1132 01:04:33,980 --> 01:04:39,700 be and it's it's shifted the whole platform from being a 1133 01:04:40,340 --> 01:04:44,900 collaboration to fund something to being a pre-order system to 1134 01:04:44,900 --> 01:04:47,860 release something. And that boils my piss, yeah. 1135 01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:51,700 Yeah, yeah, I've noticed that. I think it was commonly or not. 1136 01:04:52,350 --> 01:04:53,950 Was it comedy or not? I think it was them. 1137 01:04:53,950 --> 01:04:57,510 They had that Metal Gear Solid game and board game and they 1138 01:04:57,510 --> 01:04:59,590 didn't even kick started. Those let us have like a 1139 01:04:59,590 --> 01:05:01,470 pre-order from their site directly. 1140 01:05:02,030 --> 01:05:05,390 And the the the the weird thing about it was even though I was 1141 01:05:05,390 --> 01:05:08,310 interested because I love the original Metal Gear Solid is 1142 01:05:08,310 --> 01:05:12,110 that you had to pre-order it in order to get the the the Rex 1143 01:05:12,110 --> 01:05:14,710 model. So if you didn't get, if you 1144 01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:16,630 didn't pre-order it you wouldn't get it in the set. 1145 01:05:16,630 --> 01:05:19,470 Which is just stupid. This is a stupid idea. 1146 01:05:20,260 --> 01:05:23,620 It's like Hasbro's hero quest with Holtz or whatever it is. 1147 01:05:23,620 --> 01:05:26,620 So a lot of companies now have looked at Kickstarter and went 1148 01:05:26,620 --> 01:05:28,700 this is a great way of pre ordering and then eventually 1149 01:05:28,700 --> 01:05:33,020 somebody at the top goes. But why are we paying them 15% 1150 01:05:33,020 --> 01:05:35,700 to do this when we can do pre-orders on our own site and 1151 01:05:36,220 --> 01:05:42,650 not pay anything and all of a sudden and God bless them, I 1152 01:05:42,650 --> 01:05:45,890 really want Hasbro and Cool Mini or not and everybody else to 1153 01:05:45,890 --> 01:05:49,970 piss off and do the pre-orders on their own site out of my way 1154 01:05:50,370 --> 01:05:54,050 and let Kickstarter get back to helping small companies produce 1155 01:05:54,050 --> 01:05:56,370 things that you ordinarily wouldn't say. 1156 01:05:58,130 --> 01:06:02,210 John Hudson and Annie Norman from Bad Squid, who recently did 1157 01:06:02,210 --> 01:06:07,360 the set of background books, sci-fi and generic sort of fancy 1158 01:06:07,360 --> 01:06:09,720 and landscapes free to put behind your minis when you're 1159 01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:13,480 taking photographs of them. And they did a physical and like 1160 01:06:13,680 --> 01:06:18,120 digital versions, really small Kickstarter niche. 1161 01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:21,880 I mean at no point have I woke up in the morning and thought, I 1162 01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:25,160 really wish I had a digital sci-fi backdrop miniatures 1163 01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:28,360 behind. But having said that and having 1164 01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,560 seen what they've done going, that's a really good idea. 1165 01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:34,270 I love that. I'm so glad to see it. 1166 01:06:35,550 --> 01:06:39,390 And that's what I want to see more of the the NDS, the small 1167 01:06:39,390 --> 01:06:46,470 companies of which there are a myriads, actually guess a 1168 01:06:46,470 --> 01:06:49,030 platform where they can produce something that they want to 1169 01:06:49,030 --> 01:06:50,630 produce that might be beyond their means. 1170 01:06:50,630 --> 01:06:59,430 Normally I know Fugu, Fugu and Cornwall do absolutely stunning 1171 01:06:59,430 --> 01:07:02,400 resin buildings and they do little Kickstarters every now 1172 01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:07,560 and again for historic slash, fantasy, slash, sci-fi and post 1173 01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:10,320 apocalyptic buildings. And they use Kickstarter in the 1174 01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:15,320 platform and I'm sure, I'm sure it's a real benefit to them. 1175 01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:17,920 Although I've still not got my Brock yet. 1176 01:07:18,040 --> 01:07:24,360 If you're listening to this, I really want a Brock but but that 1177 01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:26,760 that's what you know. You go on, you go, holy shit, 1178 01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:32,480 there's a Celtic stone ring Fort that can be also used for 1179 01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:36,280 fantasy that Kev Adams has sculpted A goblin gate for. 1180 01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:39,280 Where has this been all my life? I didn't know. 1181 01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:42,160 I need one of these. And because I can use it for 1182 01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:46,640 fantasy and I can use it for my historic gaming and I can stick 1183 01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:49,120 some widgets and stuff on and go, it's kind of a weird Star 1184 01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:51,520 Wars one as well because a lot of Star Wars is just, you know, 1185 01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,520 widgets stuck onto old buildings. 1186 01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:58,760 It does everything and therefore I'm saving money by buying it. 1187 01:08:00,140 --> 01:08:03,060 And you can't tell me I'm wrong, but it's those. 1188 01:08:03,060 --> 01:08:05,940 It's those companies I want to see on Kickstarter, not the 1189 01:08:05,940 --> 01:08:07,980 companies that, not the companies. 1190 01:08:07,980 --> 01:08:11,060 They've got shareholders who are looking to work out how how far 1191 01:08:11,060 --> 01:08:14,540 they can stretch their dividends next year if they put another 1192 01:08:14,540 --> 01:08:16,100 threes on beside Kickstarter's up. 1193 01:08:17,460 --> 01:08:18,580 And that is the end of my branch. 1194 01:08:20,540 --> 01:08:22,620 Very well said there, but I think I agree with you Jerry. 1195 01:08:22,620 --> 01:08:24,899 Actually I think it's. It should be there for. 1196 01:08:25,310 --> 01:08:29,430 You know, the the small indie guys and women out there who 1197 01:08:29,430 --> 01:08:32,990 would just try to make something for themselves to share with 1198 01:08:32,990 --> 01:08:35,950 other people who would be interested in, in buying and 1199 01:08:35,950 --> 01:08:39,990 backing their dream project. And I think we should see more 1200 01:08:39,990 --> 01:08:41,710 of that. But I did like that backdrop 1201 01:08:41,710 --> 01:08:42,790 thing. I think that's a really good 1202 01:08:42,790 --> 01:08:45,029 idea actually, that Annie had. And I thought that was a really 1203 01:08:45,350 --> 01:08:48,029 ingenious thing, actually, because we we do it sometimes, 1204 01:08:48,029 --> 01:08:51,750 we paint the backdrops for our. Photo photography and that kind 1205 01:08:51,750 --> 01:08:53,910 of thing, because with some old hammer and that's the old hammer 1206 01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:57,270 style, but I think that idea is a really good one because that 1207 01:08:57,270 --> 01:08:59,550 way you can just flip a page and then you've got a new back 1208 01:08:59,630 --> 01:09:01,510 backdrop, you know? And I think it's a really nice 1209 01:09:01,670 --> 01:09:04,270 idea. So things yeah, it's great. 1210 01:09:04,310 --> 01:09:11,310 I mean the artwork was done by John Hudson, who's done art for 1211 01:09:11,830 --> 01:09:15,390 a whole host of things, who he's worked on Warhammer stuff for 1212 01:09:15,390 --> 01:09:18,029 Cubicle 7 and Lord of the Rings stuff for them as well. 1213 01:09:18,029 --> 01:09:22,990 I think he's he's he's a fantastic artist and he also has 1214 01:09:24,029 --> 01:09:28,149 his own little website called Handiwork. 1215 01:09:29,529 --> 01:09:32,649 Yeah, I think I think it's called Handiwork Games where he 1216 01:09:32,649 --> 01:09:37,490 has some really out there RPGs which obviously takes one 1217 01:09:37,490 --> 01:09:41,729 massive box for me and then also some historic RPGs based around 1218 01:09:41,729 --> 01:09:45,250 Beowulf and they have miniatures for Beowulf as well. 1219 01:09:45,970 --> 01:09:51,130 So you can play out the the epic sagas, the old, the old English 1220 01:09:51,130 --> 01:09:55,490 sagas of Beowulf. And so yeah, right there, little 1221 01:09:55,490 --> 01:09:58,450 indie design company Double Tech. 1222 01:09:59,250 --> 01:10:00,570 All of that. Wow. 1223 01:10:00,970 --> 01:10:03,730 OK, that's good, mate. And yeah, it's good to see some 1224 01:10:03,730 --> 01:10:07,250 of my friends who, you know, who have been, you know, passionate 1225 01:10:07,250 --> 01:10:09,970 about things like confrontation, you know, releasing their own 1226 01:10:09,970 --> 01:10:11,970 range of miniatures and that kind of thing. 1227 01:10:12,010 --> 01:10:15,290 So it's really nice to see that being put on kick start and 1228 01:10:15,290 --> 01:10:18,450 people appreciating those kind of projects and picking up 1229 01:10:18,450 --> 01:10:23,010 something very unique. And you know, I I wish you know 1230 01:10:23,370 --> 01:10:28,360 those guys all success and I hope those. 2 individuals in 1231 01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,440 their small companies who are those amazing dwarf sculpts, 1232 01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:34,360 actually get those on Kickstarter somehow or some kind 1233 01:10:34,360 --> 01:10:37,800 of crowdfunding, you know, platform where they can realize 1234 01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:40,240 these and put them on the market and people can actually buy them 1235 01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:42,200 and appreciate them and paint them and that kind of thing. 1236 01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:43,960 Because there's some really wonderful stuff out there. 1237 01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,680 So yeah, I think Kickstarter should be utilized for those 1238 01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:48,760 kind of projects. Yeah. 1239 01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:55,120 The confrontation stuff is is stomking and confrontation is 1240 01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:59,020 well, we haven't got near us and time is marching on. 1241 01:10:59,020 --> 01:11:02,980 I've no, I've no idea how long you've got so I don't want to 1242 01:11:02,980 --> 01:11:04,300 drag this too far. But we. 1243 01:11:04,340 --> 01:11:06,380 Might be we'll have to bring you back again, Jerry, because I 1244 01:11:06,380 --> 01:11:09,260 know you're a busy man, mate, and you have to go to work and 1245 01:11:09,260 --> 01:11:11,900 Oh yeah, yeah, I will, I will, I will soon. 1246 01:11:12,060 --> 01:11:15,540 But yeah, because. Because confrontation is a whole 1247 01:11:15,540 --> 01:11:17,620 other Congress for. Me, another kind of worms at 1248 01:11:18,340 --> 01:11:22,340 some point and delve into because I I as as Alyssa's will 1249 01:11:22,340 --> 01:11:25,310 know. I do like that Big R Rackham and 1250 01:11:25,310 --> 01:11:29,750 confrontation and everything it entails because it's kind of the 1251 01:11:30,030 --> 01:11:32,590 it's old hammer, it's a French old hammer really. 1252 01:11:32,710 --> 01:11:36,150 That's what it is to me. And yeah, yeah, we we, we won't 1253 01:11:36,150 --> 01:11:38,190 have the conversation. I'll definitely be back to 1254 01:11:38,190 --> 01:11:40,950 discuss confrontation. I can tell you, by the time I I 1255 01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:46,050 killed the company in Northern Ireland, I killed a company in 1256 01:11:46,050 --> 01:11:49,250 Northern Ireland. I can't say 100% certain it was 1257 01:11:49,250 --> 01:11:52,370 me, but I did. I did convince them to stop 1258 01:11:52,370 --> 01:11:56,130 confrontation and they got a lot of confrontation and it didn't 1259 01:11:56,130 --> 01:11:58,170 go anywhere. And then they, they had a big 1260 01:11:58,170 --> 01:12:00,730 sale on it and I bought it all. And then shortly after they 1261 01:12:00,730 --> 01:12:04,090 closed. And I mean, it can't have been 1262 01:12:04,090 --> 01:12:07,370 just me, obviously, they must have had other issues there. 1263 01:12:08,010 --> 01:12:10,570 But I can't help but feel, as I stripped the shelves of 1264 01:12:10,570 --> 01:12:14,330 confrontation miniatures, that maybe he'd still be if he just 1265 01:12:14,330 --> 01:12:17,930 stuck with his 20 mil, 172nd plastics that he'd been doing 1266 01:12:17,930 --> 01:12:19,770 before. Paul Buggers. 1267 01:12:19,770 --> 01:12:22,010 But as far as I know for everybody he's talked about 1268 01:12:22,010 --> 01:12:24,610 these, you know, these independent stores, they're just 1269 01:12:24,730 --> 01:12:27,330 owned by these people who have probably retired and got lots of 1270 01:12:27,330 --> 01:12:30,690 money and they just want to put miniatures in his shop and sell 1271 01:12:30,690 --> 01:12:32,650 them and they have no idea how to run a small business. 1272 01:12:32,650 --> 01:12:34,490 So yeah. That's probably how it ended, 1273 01:12:34,570 --> 01:12:36,690 right? That's that's that's what I'm 1274 01:12:36,690 --> 01:12:38,970 going to assume happened. Nothing to do with me. 1275 01:12:38,970 --> 01:12:41,770 Nothing you really need. You really need to get this 1276 01:12:41,770 --> 01:12:43,530 confrontation because of confrontation. 1277 01:12:43,690 --> 01:12:49,170 It lives on in Ireland as well but hopefully have some. 1278 01:12:49,170 --> 01:12:51,610 Positive news about that, but there is a lot of positivity 1279 01:12:51,610 --> 01:12:53,530 about that. But we'll talk about that in 1280 01:12:53,530 --> 01:12:57,370 another another conversation where we can. 1281 01:12:57,370 --> 01:13:00,890 We asked you back, mate, at some point, hopefully with some other 1282 01:13:00,890 --> 01:13:03,410 news about that, maybe some more new news about that. 1283 01:13:03,410 --> 01:13:05,250 So who knows? Yeah, yeah. 1284 01:13:05,250 --> 01:13:07,970 Who knows what will happen in the future with confrontation. 1285 01:13:08,690 --> 01:13:10,690 Well, Jerry, it's been an absolutely fascinating. 1286 01:13:10,990 --> 01:13:12,990 Talk with you mate. I really appreciate your time 1287 01:13:12,990 --> 01:13:16,590 coming on to talk to me. And the listeners can of course 1288 01:13:16,590 --> 01:13:20,350 listen to you, and I'm sure a lot of them know you already 1289 01:13:20,350 --> 01:13:22,870 because of your connections with on Tabletop. 1290 01:13:23,310 --> 01:13:26,190 And if people don't know anything about you or never 1291 01:13:26,190 --> 01:13:29,470 heard about you, I really insist they go and check out on 1292 01:13:29,470 --> 01:13:32,940 Tabletop on YouTube. And watch the Weekender, because 1293 01:13:32,940 --> 01:13:36,460 I always enjoy listening to that, you guys talking about all 1294 01:13:36,460 --> 01:13:39,500 the new releases and the indie of the week, which is my 1295 01:13:39,500 --> 01:13:42,420 favorite part actually, and as you also like that. 1296 01:13:42,940 --> 01:13:45,620 Yeah, I think I like that. And I think people should come 1297 01:13:45,620 --> 01:13:48,300 and check it out to see what other small businesses out there 1298 01:13:48,300 --> 01:13:50,220 are creating for you, for your hobby. 1299 01:13:50,820 --> 01:13:53,600 And it's really important we support these people out there 1300 01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:56,520 100%. Thank you so much for giving me 1301 01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:58,360 the opportunity to bend everybody's ear. 1302 01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:00,840 I can't wait to come back. Who knows about? 1303 01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:02,600 That one to have you back, mate. Be really nice. 1304 01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:04,760 I really like I said, I really enjoyed talking to you and I I'm 1305 01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:08,000 sure we could talk about many other topics for many hours to 1306 01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:10,320 come. But in the meantime, people 1307 01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:13,600 check out the Sun dude on YouTube channel as well, where 1308 01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:15,440 you can listen to Jerry every week. 1309 01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:19,280 Talk about stuff as well so they can catch you in two places. 1310 01:14:19,280 --> 01:14:22,770 Two different places, mate. Poor, poor bastards. 1311 01:14:22,930 --> 01:14:24,690 They can't get enough of Jerry now, so that's good. 1312 01:14:25,810 --> 01:14:27,290 All right, buddy. Well, take care of yourself. 1313 01:14:27,290 --> 01:14:30,330 Cheers, man. Until next time, take care. 1314 01:14:30,330 --> 01:14:51,480 Bye, bye, bye, bye None.