But thanks, thanks guys for coming to the Chronicle Man
podcast today and I really wanted to, yeah, sit you guys
down to talk to you as you're my oldest gaming friends and
friends of course from Queensland, Australia and you
attended the Sustained Fire event.
I just wanted to ask you guys, yeah, like firstly what you what
did you think about the event? You know, things that maybe
happened during the day that you're really impressed with or
people you met up with or the games you played.
So Brad and Marcus, welcome and please tell us all about it,
mate. Let's, let's start with you.
Marcus, what did you what, what was your experience there?
Sustained sustained fire. Thanks Josh.
No, it was, it was a really good day.
I mean the the way it came about was I was I joined this little
Facebook chat group called Second Day Chat Group and there
was about, I guess a dozen people on it and most of them
were from Brisbane. And some of them I knew, many I
didn't. And yeah, it started to sort of
snowball, you know, the number of people joining this chat
group about six months ago. And yeah, someone just raised
the fact that, you know, it was going to be the 30th
anniversary. This year.
And and they said we should, you know, we should get together and
have a, you know, celebration of the day and it kind of just
snowballed from there. But Tim?
Tim organised it all and Stewart organised some shirts.
There was all sorts of things like on the day that they'd
organised like trophies and swap meet.
There were things on display that were like, you know, really
old unique things. Like there was an original metal
Thunder Hook gunship in its in its wooden case on display, but
someone owned. Which is pretty cool to see
because I've never seen one before.
And I think we ended up having about 28 people.
Brad, was it about 28? Yeah.
About, yeah. About that.
Yeah, I think so, Yeah. And yeah, look, they you know,
they made trophies of the the original 2nd Ed Goth and you
know, scaled it up and and made you know 3 trophies.
And it wasn't you know best general or anything like that.
I think that from memory it was best painter, most retro and
best theme and which was cool because you know like everyone
was kind of doing it just for fun anyway and laughs and yeah,
but there was there wasn't any sort of competitive carry on and
and you know we spoke about the whole vortex grenade issue
beforehand and and virus grenades.
And you know the general consensus was just don't be a
Dick you know if you if you go then expect to be ostracized.
So and it was good. I I don't know I didn't hear of
anyone that had vortex grenades and certainly not virus
grenades. So yeah, look it was only like a
two round session like day because I mean obviously with
with second date it takes a lot longer to play it than what the.
The modern version does. So yeah, I think we started at
about 9:00 and finished at about four 4:30 and got two games in
and you know stopped for pizza for lunch and and you know,
yeah, it was, it was really, it was good.
It was well run, well attended. You know, everyone there was
just having laughs and stuff like that and and yeah, it was
really cool to see all The armies too, like and a lot of it
was, yeah, it was first, it looked like Rogue Trader or
second deck stuff. You know, there were some people
there that had later editions, you know, models and stuff like
that. But yeah, no one was being
pedantic about it or anything like that.
It was all all in, you know, in good fun.
And yeah, it was just, it was really well run.
What about you, Brad? What do you think of?
The day I thought it's going to tell you, yeah, I had a good
day. I already enjoyed enjoyed
myself. I found I found out about it
through the Marcus. So the.
You know, I'll fade on what was going on behind the scenes, but
I I got your message. I said Oh yeah, sounds like a
bit of fun. I'll, I'll go check that out.
And I thought you were coming down to Auckland for the day.
So yeah, we'll catch up and have a game of game or two or 40K
second edition, yeah, but you know it was a good day, well
organised. It's cool to see the old army
so. There was some.
I think there was a guy I knew from the Horace Heresy group I
play with who had a old school 2nd edition Necron army.
Those the ones that came with the white dwarf here, the Tim, I
think it was Tim was his name here.
The army is them. Pretty cool.
Yeah, there was. Yeah, heaps of stuff there.
Stuff for sale. Tim, the guy who organised it, I
played him. Yeah, they're like an Imperial
Agents army with Gray Knights. And then I played the markers
with your Orcs. So yeah, good fun games.
But as you say, yeah, I've got a comment on the Vortex grenade
things because I was half expecting to see a Vortex
grenade pop out. But no, no.
I came. The closest to me came is I
think the game I had is with Tim.
He had an inquisitor with Vortex as his psychic power.
It backfired on it horribly when I had the demonic attack Chaos.
The demonic attack psychic card. Yeah, Mr. Inquisitor went.
Brilliant. Brilliant.
Well, I mean, you can. You can accept.
You know the Vortex well, the the Holocaust.
What? What is it called again?
Vortex it is called. Vortex, Yeah, you can kind of
accept that as being, you know, part of the the rules with the
psychic rules like that. Because, I mean, you kind of got
to be lucky to get it anyway. But it was, you know, there was
other things that that you could do to sort of stop that.
Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I I that army of teams
was quite compact wasn't it? It You know, I think this
granite's like some ridiculous amount of points and and and he
only had about 20 figures in the in the army, didn't he?
Most of the stuff was pretty squishy, like half, well 3/4 of
the army was like the depth of star bites.
And insistence. Of battle, which didn't fare too
well against Chaos Space variants.
The Gray Knights said. Did I think he got his points
worth out of the Gray Knights though?
They did the damage. Yeah, they half straight through
me, but as expected. But yeah, yeah, good game, good
game. But I played you Marcus, and
yeah, that was an entertaining game as well with your war boss
on his bike. Dog Rod, Dog Rod.
Not Dog Rod. Sorry.
Guts Wozniak. A Guts neck.
Yeah. Yeah.
I was going. To ask him, I guess, was that an
official model or was that an official unit but they just
never released a model for it and the and the seconded codecs?
Or was that? That's right that he was.
He was a character in the back of the codecs, but they never
made a model for him. And you know, when I first
realized I was going to be going down to that that that day for
those games, I was thinking to myself, I'm going to take a, A.
War Boss on foot and give him like a warp jump generator, just
but it laughs. But then I thought, no it
doesn't really fit in with the army that I took which was Evil
Sons and I wanted to make it as themed as possible.
And so I ended up thinking, well why not take the the the War
Boss for Evil Sons. That's in the back of the book.
But then I realized obviously I need to make.
A make a a model for it. A lot of nice comments about him
on the day and when I posted the pics up on Instagram and and a
reel of it, it got quite a a lot of likes and views which was
nice. You know sometimes you put a lot
of effort into things and and post them up on on these social
media channels and and it gets ignored and and sometimes you
put up up something that's pretty average in it.
It goes viral, so who knows sometimes when you when you do
this stuff, but it's always nice to get feedback and comments so.
Yeah, for sure, mate, That's. Nice.
That's great. And like, who was the best match
up of the day? Like, did you enjoy the game
against Brad the most, or was it someone else in particular that
you really enjoyed playing a game with on the day?
Yeah, look, the the first guy that I played was Blood Angels.
He he took a an interesting, I mean not certainly not one that
I would have taken. It was predominantly infantry,
like he had two 210 man squads, like tactical squads, a scout
squad, a librarian, a captain and I can't remember what else,
but there was no vehicles and no bikes or anything, so.
Yeah it was. It was a different army and
unfortunately for him, I had two pulsar rockets and I don't know
whether you've been on the receiving end of pulsar rockets
with an infantry heavy army, but it really stuffs you around.
And I I got, I got lucky you know I rolled Well they they
they landed on target and yeah just flattened half of his army
for. You know, basically two turns
because one of them, I rolled a double and so it stayed the next
turn and yeah, it just allowed me to sort of move, move up my
vehicles and shoot the hell out of him.
So yeah, he was a little bit unlucky in that regard, but it
was a good game, you know, He was a fun bloke to play against.
I'd play against him, you know, in a heartbeat.
It it, it was good fun, yeah. Had a lot of laughs and and.
You know, it was a nice painted army, but yeah, as I said,
different. Certainly not what I expected.
You know, I would have thought that any Marine army and most of
them there did have either a Predator.
Some of them had Land Raiders, but they all pretty much had at
least one tank and. And Terminators.
Terminators seem to be pretty popular on the day as well, but
it was a good mix of armies actually represented like they
had I think almost everything except the full squat army.
There was a pool that that had a squat allies in his army I
think, and I think there might have been one or two other
people that might have had one squad or two squads or something
like that. So yeah, no, it was, it was it
was good. And you know there was some
really nicely painted armies too.
Most of them were marines for some reason like that couple
nice blood Angel armies and ultra marine armies.
Yeah, so, and the terrain actually I have to say as well,
team the organiser he the amount of effort and time he put into
making all these. All this terrain for all the
tables he was showing working progress picks, you know in the
weeks leading leading up to it and yeah, look, these tables
turned out schnick, you know, but they they were really good,
you know it they were all varied in in, you know their themes.
So you know, there was an Eldar themes table.
There was a number of walk tables, you know, a snow tundra
table. Forest table, you know, jungle
table. Yeah, it was all sorts of stuff.
So it was good. And I think, you know, a lot of
the photos that were posted up after the day by everyone showed
a lot of that too, which was, which was good because it was
all posted on that Warhammer Second day Facebook page.
And I think, I think we ended up actually inspiring a few other
groups across the world to do their own day.
Which was pretty cool. I mean you know we were the
first ones to do it and post it all up and you know a few other
people like I think over in the UK that they did at least one or
possibly two. Italy, I know, I'm pretty sure
they did did one and somewhere else in Europe that that I'm
sure they did. But France possibly.
But anyway, yeah, it was, it was good.
It was good to see sort of, you know, the the resurgence.
And it it kind of makes you wonder why, why people have gone
back to the second end because I don't know if you've really sort
of noticed job. But like in the last 12 months
in particular, the prices of of second end stuff has gone
through the roof like it's just suddenly become really valuable
all of a sudden and prices have like doubled like literally in
12 months. So I think there must be a lot
of people. Getting back into it, have you
noticed that? I haven't because I'm just, I'm
just not in the market mate, so I don't really know.
To be honest, I'm still trying to paint the other stuff I've
got here, so without having to think about buying anything
else, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean I've been trying to
sort of add to my collection, you know, over the last two
years, just sort of getting back into it again and picking up all
models that I always wanted but would never afford or or find
and. Adding to to the collection and
I you know my warp army has swelled dramatically you know in
the last couple of years I think I've got about a counted it
actually was about 650 odd models mostly metal I think
there's about 100 plastics in it but yeah it's it's really gotten
big so now I've I've I've pretty much got enough models to make
about a three to 4000 point army for each clan.
So yeah, it's going to be huge when it's all done, if if it
ever all gets done. But I'm looking forward to that.
I'll start with The Evil Suns and and I think I'll be working
on the The Bad Moons next. And Brad, I want to ask you too,
mate. Like this is the first second
edition game you played since the 90s, yeah?
Yeah, pretty much, Yeah. Yeah, probably about 1998.
OK, I think. How did it feel for you?
Like, you know, after having played all of the other editions
things, because you've played a lot more of the the modern ones
than I have. How how did it feel going back
to the, you know, the the early days?
It felt a bit weird at first because I just remember, hang
on, I don't remember this. The two biggest things was the
facing, because after third edition, facing didn't really
matter. Yeah.
Racing and what was the other thing?
Probably the close combat system was a lot more.
Basically it was model per model.
Later it just squad the squad. You just roll up.
Get up all your attacks, roll your attacks and the other
player does the same for their unit.
Whereas second edition it was like well once per you know, one
lot of dice for each model and that that's works well and works
OK in smaller scale games but. Yeah, in in the later editions
of the game where you're playing much bigger armies, then
obviously that. That's not an.
Ideal system. Yeah, I mean by the secondary
close combat rules is probably one of the the bigger gripes
that people have about the game. But I mean, I love it.
I love it. It's all right, yeah.
As you said, if you've only got one or two combats going each
turn that are fairly small, But yeah, if you've got a close
combat army and half your army's in close combat, it's a
nightmare. Oh, really?
OK, I was just going to say to Marcus when I was talking to Tim
about what army I was going to take a few nights before the I
said I've got a I've got a bunch of cults painted up.
I might just take a chaos coven that's just just for shits and
giggles till I'd actually added up.
How many models you would actually need to make a 1500
point army? They came to literally 4 or 500.
Models. That's crazy.
I'll just feel like even then there was cheap as they are now,
they're about four. That's a model and I think even
even the latest edition, they're still like 4 points a model.
They were complete rubbish. Harvesting on a human, yeah.
And I thought, how was it taking about 400 models going to go one
second? I think it would be a very long
game. What I find interesting is
though is they're sort of with the kill team game, they're
going back to the smaller, the smaller battles concept.
Like kill team of, you know, it's basically squat of guys
versus a squat of guys. It's basically.
What are the rules? Like like for that.
Because I've never played it. I haven't played it either, but
I do have the rule book for him. It's similar to Necromanda.
Oh, OK. Well, they prefer rule.
Hand to hand rules anyway. Like second hand, yeah.
Yeah, that's. So yeah, I haven't actually
played. I've got, I've got the rules.
So I should be, should have a game one day Marcus.
But yeah, it's designed, yeah, the smaller game, just and each
model is basically a character, even though it's just like a,
you know, they're just standard tactical marines.
Or Orcs. Or whatever, Yeah.
Basically it's yeah, designed a smaller game, so.
I remember reading a thing on the Internet years ago where
some guy said he was talking to a Games Workshop manager and
this is back in the, I think towards the end of 7th or 8th
edition fantasy. Or was it?
Yeah, before they killed off fantasy.
And basically the idea that they had was you had to bring a
massive army for fantasy. People just couldn't afford.
That's why they killed it, because people couldn't afford
to play. It.
The guy said I was talking to a Games Workshop manager, he said
basically they're cutting their own throat by, you know, these
ridiculously huge armies that people just can't, don't have
the money to buy into. Like they said, just to getting
a decent size 2 or 3000 point fantasy army and towards the end
you'd be spending at least $1000, probably more.
Yeah, it wouldn't be so expensive to get into it if they
actually had cheaper prices for the models.
But that's a whole other story. Yeah, Yeah.
But we're not going to go. I ran into that kind of pricing
essentially. Is that my pick?
But yeah. But coming back to 2nd edition,
I I think it did have its charms.
Yeah, there are some things I miss about it, which sadly, I
wish they'd sort of carried over into the modern game.
No, I don't think it slowed slow down the game that much.
What? What about it?
Did you miss Brad? I did like the Overwatch rules.
I did like. I thought the psychic things was
actually pretty fun, yeah. I love it.
That's one of my favourites. Yeah, and they've sort of.
Each edition, they seem to muck around with the psychic
condition of rules. Psychic condition rules, So
somewhere. Better.
Some are worse. But I think that system they had
with the cards, it was a fun system, yeah, Yeah.
And I mean, if they brought that back up, I think people would
be. I mean too many.
People would be unhappy with that.
I mean, I think, I think unfortunately over the years 40K
has evolved into a game where they're trying to make it
playable in a tournament setting and to have like the card system
of of, you know, psychics and how you randomly draw your
powers and things like that. I have a feeling that most
modern players in tournaments would hate it because it's too
random. And in fact, I think they will
hate that, that they just wouldn't like the whole idea of
of Second Head because of the randomness involved at pretty
much all levels. I don't know that that's my
answer to the personal take on that.
But you know to me the randomness and the the crazy
outcomes that you can have because of that randomness is
what makes the game sound bloody good.
Because you just have this thematic occurrences that you
know change the tide of the battle in in hilarious and and
catastrophic ways. And and they're the things you
talk about after the game. You know when you're sitting
around having a post game wrap up and and talking about, you
know the highs and lows, it's it's always the the crazy bloody
things that you don't expect that that you remember when
you're when you're playing second and so.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, that's one thing I
didn't like. That was the randomness of the
psychic power. So I think you should have been
able to choose them. Yeah, if they would.
Do you? Do you think though that
everyone would just end up taking like, you know, the
inquisitive power vortex for example, You know?
That's the problem, yeah. That's the problem I think you
probably some would have to be nerfed, somewhat expensive and
expensive. Like high risk, high reward
type. OK, so this is expensive and
pretty devastating, but if it goes on you can backfire on you
horribly so. Yeah, like it shouldn't be an
auto include. It's people should think, Oh
yeah, this is pretty good, but it's worth a lot of clients
quite backfire on me, is it? Would it be better off spending
the 25 points, for example, on on something else?
Yeah, so. I think that's the sort of
calculation rather than just here.
Here's something that's really OP it's cheese.
You can use it every turn. And yeah, there's no sort of
risk in doing so. Yeah, I mean, I guess they tried
to sort of limit that with using the power cards and having the
different level power required to, you know, get the power off.
But yeah, they could have taken that a little bit further, I
suppose, for some of the more overpowered ones.
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I was going to say,
Marcus, in regards to the War Gear, yeah, there's no virus.
No, no virus or vortex, which, yeah, I was half expecting.
They have a virus outbreak. Were they using strategy cards
on the day? It's like yeah, So what, an Orcs
or Imperial Guard or some other army that didn't have, you know,
didn't have power armour then yeah.
Look, you know if you think about it from the the background
fluff suppose or or the the reality you know situation.
Of course you know there would be like virus grenades and
things like that going around because that would be the most
effective way of you know, for marines to eradicate bloody
Orks. And you know any, you know
unrespirated the biggest of the, you know, army.
So it it makes sense that they would do that.
But from a game perspective, it's not a good idea because
it's just too. Too bad, yeah, yeah.
And it was such a cheap thing. But yeah, but the others would
be good old days. I'm glad you glad you went mate.
That's good. It's good to see you there and
and Marcus also and and I'm sure.
You know shout out to Todd robber I'm I I I told him about
it and him and his wife were interested but they just didn't
get there for the day. So I'm sure, like I said to
Marcus, I'm sure next year you'll see another influx of new
people coming in or interested to come up Interstate or
something to play on the day. So you know, considering the the
whole day was only planned I think about six weeks in advance
or something like that, it was a fairly short time frame and it
kind of sprang out of nowhere. It wasn't heavily advertised,
you know, well in advance, you know, I mean obviously there was
a lot of online presence. Tim was doing a lot of social
media posts for it and even set up a a page for it, which was
really helpful. But yeah, I mean it's from a
time frame perspective. I mean, look, let's face it, the
older we get, the harder it is to sort of, you know, dedicate a
whole day or. More to go and you know go and
have a tournament or or you know a couple of games so you you
want as much notice as possible. And I think you know if they're
going to do it again next year, which hopefully they do.
I think talk is they're going to think about doing it at Briscon,
which I kind of. Hope they don't because I'm
likely to be there as a seller from all you know from a
miniatures. But yeah, I think that that
that's what the plan is to go there and that way you know more
people know about it. It's advertised far more broadly
and that you know that probably would get a lot more players
purely because of that. You know it being held in
conjunction, you know, with a well established tournament or
gaming convention, you know, in Brisbane, so.
OK, Brad, Marcus. Thank you.
Thank you much. Sorry.
I was just going to say too, just quick before we wrapped up,
I did invite Pino to come along all right.
Yeah. Please seem interested, but then
I told him he couldn't take his Black Templars as black.
Yeah, I think he. Should he wasn't interested.
Yeah. Poor old Pino.
Yeah. Gee, that's a that's a name from
the past. Wow.
I have to try to catch up with him too.
Actually, I still catch up with Pino when we got a game
organized. Oh.
Good. OK, Please tell him I said
hello. I'll need to.
I'll tell him I'm going to message him soon and I'll have
to say hello to the old, my crazy Italian friend in
Brisbane. Don't worry about it.
So yeah, that's great guys. I'm really, really happy.
You're still playing, so it's good and getting together and
playing together. Yeah, but yes, I'm going to get
back to me painting this afternoon, so.
Me too, mate. I've got some Rogue Trader orcs
here I'm painting up, so I'm going to and Barca got some
stuff sculpting, so, yeah, so it'd be good, guys.
All right, guys. Well, I'm sure we'll get you
back on at some point again in the future.
Talk about something. Until then, take care and catch
again next time, all right. Bye.
None.