Okay, so welcome back to The Chronic man podcast and I'm
joined here with carnufex how you going mate?
Yeah, great Heda. Not too bad house house house.
Things on your part of the world are in Sydney.
Yeah, been playing lots of games of seconded, 40K recently.
It's been fun, you know, relearning rules making mistakes
things like that. Getting my butt kicked.
Yeah, it sounds like my experience of second edition 40K
me, that's good. But yeah, Brandi doorpost
uploaded load of pictures of your games recently on the
Discord. Yeah, and it looks like there's
a gene still the cult versus a tear ended Force.
Okay, I'll Space Rock House, caspase Masonic a Space Marines.
First is to Runners and yeah, but they're both your arm is
that right? Yeah.
Cool probably won't use Brandy dogs.
Armies just in case like you know, gets chipped or something
like that and that would be 80 hours worth of work.
But yeah I'm really looking forward to seeing.
Yeah, your jeans healers the verses or you're tearing it up.
Reverses his space. Fahmy at some point in the
future. So that's going to happen and
with a record it to the record, it will do my best.
Good on you mate. Yeah.
Video editing is hell. So I know tell me about it.
I guess like a big thing on the recent sort of month is that
there's been lots of YouTube groups like different YouTube
groups that we all like posting 2nd Ed 40K battles and I'm very
biased like that's my My favorite thing.
So I've been posting them in the YouTubers Community part of the
Discord. Totally recommend checking it
out. There's been some real crackers.
Really unconventional. I'm he's forcing each other like
house, cultists and adapters are b or our bodies or B.
What however you want to say, it's a very contested I think at
the moment. So yeah, please check out the
YouTubers Community part of the Discord for some pretty cool.
It's especially if you're painting, it's great to have
those. Those battles going off really
funny things happen. Another part the war zone
section of the Discord. Dirty hands, calves.
Right? Up some insights.
You had into the game. It's a really good read if
you're interested in that sort of stuff.
Yeah, it's relevant to me because I was on was a direct
competitor when I played 40K. A lot of the guys who were
frustrated with 40K jumped over the war zone.
So give give that a read dirty hands.
Kids got a lot of really cool stuff to say.
Say and if you ever wanted to check out what resin printed old
Hammer looks like check the 3D print section Albert's painted
up some be keys that he printed and he painted them and they're
pretty spot-on if you ask me. So if you ever thought like Iyer
3D printing is not quite there yet.
Well, to be honest, it is, I've been doing a getting a bit of 3D
printing done. And been really happy with the
results and the price comparison.
It's insane. So, speaking of insane, Chris
Knight has been painting up old hammer style.
Space will cease doing that sort of shaded effect, and they're
looking really neat and perfect, and he's done a whole Squad of
them now. So very impressed with the
Cruces progress. Keep it up, mate.
Once whole Army's done. Yeah, it's going to look
fantastic. It already looks great.
Yeah, and I have to say, you need to get a Razorback mate.
And I press doing you to do that but the last Cannon and plasma
gun one, just to drive you really nuts to try and find one
and more on my bias Crucible. Casta.
And Marcellus of both being painting up some to needs.
Now, Crucible cast has been doing purple, cheering AIDS in.
I've mentioned this before, you know what, we call it a scheme
that's Based on an old video game that blizzard made you know
you might have heard of it before Starcraft.
Yeah purple and Bone and they look really great.
He and both him and Marcellus have been painting up.
The metal 2nd Ed Sheeran had worries which I'm not a big fan
of but the way that these guys have pasted painted them and
convert them, using the old plastic bits, they look really
great. Now, Marcellus, he's been doing
his with this sort of so Tech Temple, guard, blue, Orange,
both both of them offset. Look, fantastic ones.
Really dark and Grim one's really bright and happy and
yeah, perfect. Good.
Good work class. Now a lot of new people to
discard have been posting up content.
That's what I want to see get involved.
Even if you're just in the introduction, part of the form,
which I like reading the intros because we all sort of have like
a common thing together so, you know, give that a read when you
can but some mirrors Hers. He painted up a blood Bowl.
Chaos Warrior. And he's been trying to do it
exactly like this sort of every metal Studio did.
And I think you did a really good job of that.
That's sort of green and red, which was really iconic for that
Arrow. Good work, man, and more on that
voice strands. He's done a bad moon, Squad of
Rogue Trader era boys and now he's done a run heard and they
really spot-on color-wise. Just fantastic.
And Utter fail, he painted something that's not quite GW
related but it's a statue from the advanced Dungeons & Dragons
first edition cover art and it's that statue where the thieves
are sort of prying rubies out of its eyes.
And the Brazier is falling down on the ground and statue sort of
up and looking at the Brazier and he's done one of those sort
of object Source lighting things where the braziers light is
casting on the shadow. It's a Really cool to see that.
And yeah, very happy with the results.
I'm sure. I sure hope he's proud of what
he's done whiskey and wizards has been doing a lot of Elder
lately and he's finished off the elbow dark Reapers and they're
pretty much straight out of a magazine.
You know perfect as always and speaking of perfect, as always
kill trout, he's been posting up a lot of like various progress
shots of huge horrible Beast. He's he's got like Giants and
dragons and things. That one of the cool ones is
this big giant that he's been doing that kind of looks like a
plague here, plague Bearer and is sort of got like am in her or
a big Stone. It's really gross and he's been
doing some fantastic work. Always in that old hammer style
that all goes together. Jay Phoenix, he was showing off
his Tristan like trub Troubadour.
I'm butchering that but he's that dude, that's on the horse
and he's A gesture sidekick. It's a very crisp model with
some excellent. Weathering always room and
reminds me of that French film The Visitors.
We're like a knight and his little, just a buddy, get sent
back in time. Fantastic work man, especially
like all the mud sort of on the horse's body.
So cool, Garrett's painted up and talk shame and with a
watering can, it's a really goofy goofy sort of wonderful
model and in summer. Like kettle, trout, do these
perfect? Sort of old Hammer, stylistic
paint painting on their models and it's like something out of a
painting that you'd see like an oil painting.
They're just fantastic, keep it up, man.
Weird Stone, he weird stoned uploaded, some progress shots of
mordheim terrain, which more time trying to me is one of the
coolest trains ever made. So it's basically like an old
fantasy style Village Judge, cobblestones graveyard death and
despair. It's a work-in-progress shop,
but it just looks so good. So much detail, man.
Like everyone's posting up so much.
Crazy stuff, keep it up. We love to see it.
Really appreciate it now. Great guys.
Awesome. And just on the back of that,
we're going to just give a quick shout out to the guys on our
Facebook group and usually those sort of mirror each other people
post on Discord and Facebook as well.
But if you You're not on this chord and you are part of the
Facebook group. Thanks very much very much for
joining and contributing with your photos.
You can see a lot of stuff from Ted Gunderson so a lot of stuff
that people doing for the challenge we got Ted Ted will
these amazing looking hobgoblins on Like the Wolf Rider guys,
which are fantastic. We've got Marcel with his
contributions as well for his dwarves.
Yeah fantastic and some other those resin guys resin
Miniatures for For the imperialis, miniature company
that do the sort of the the models for the video games, and
that kind of thing. It's escapes me at the moment.
Shout it, the horn rat. That's the one.
So that's so cool. And Mick, Leonard has completed
his fifth edition starter set, like all the Lisbon and Bertoni
ins and he's actually thinking about doing a sort of battle
report may be on YouTube at some at some The future.
So that would be really good to say.
So make it hope the britannians will win.
I've got work and dear later. You'll hear like an update from
from GJ as well about the call of the crown and how the entries
are coming along thick and fast. And of also bit of a shout it to
Rick be on door, Rick as post-ups and wonderful images of
some night goblins, classic Nikon's and fourth edition with
scarce taking gobbler and all the Fanatics and that is And
clubbers and all those awesome models from the early 90s.
So, thanks again mate. For posting those up, they look
great but I think that really sums up our community section
today. Carnifex our thanks again, mate
for coming on and telling us all about it.
Yeah, my pleasure and keep it up because I love nothing more than
clicking into the Discord and just having a fit at least 30
minutes worth of stuff that go look at and read so I thank you.
Yeah, it has been great. See a lot of activity on the on
the groups are just been really good guy, so keep it up.
Now today we've got a bit of a Manowar special so we've got,
I've asked the guys in the community to put forward, their
own ideas and to submit their own content.
Basically, as you know, I'll talk time for myself and other
people are getting more and more limited.
So so yeah. Today and Today's Show we have a
Manowar special. So we have Chris Snyder and
Cameron on together. They're both from the US and
they got up, they found a time and place to get together and
record an episode for us. All about matter, wall out, how
to get into matter wall. Basically like the concept, the
game, how it plays and then you know, if you're interested and
you know, don't have enormous amount of money to Shell out.
For the base game and the and expansions in the fleet's, you
know, how ways around getting that getting around that and how
to get your stuff on the table. Actually start playing Manowar.
So hopefully, you'll really enjoy this content today and
there's a more stuff coming in the future from other
contributors around the world. So be really good and including
some guest interviews. So very exciting stuff but kind
of fix for now, let the guys, let's let the guys talk about
Man O'War and we'll catch you in the next time.
Yep, looking forward to it. See you then.
Okay, buddy, take care. Bye bye.
My name is Cameron Fletcher. I'm from Newport News, Virginia,
United States. And I'm here for the ground
command podcast, an episode with a friend of mine about getting
started in the man of war game. Warhammer Fantasy game of Man
O'War and Crystal chick. Couldn't hear this yourself?
Yeah, I'm Chris Snider. You might have heard me in other
places and I am, A semi veteran to Manowar, I guess at least I
have experience with getting started in the game, came from
scratch. So that's why Cameron kind of
asked me about doing something like this and and I was already
kicking around the idea of adding a series of getting
started in Acts you know games and this is what we're coming up
with. You know I have my mom.
I'm also pretty United States are Hershey Pennsylvania.
Some of the chocolate, right? Yeah, you know, me and my
girlfriend and my daughter live, only not live in Northern
Virginia. I'm only about three hours away
from you. We ought to we're close enough.
We probably ought to try and schedule a in-person game
sometimes. Yeah, absolutely, awesome.
Sure we can have our own little East Coast time.
It is. All right, so so male war is a
Games. Workshop game is set in the
Warhammer fantasy setting and is at tabletop strategy game, based
around sea battles. So the the scale for Manowar
depended on who you ask is generally like around 12 1001
12:00 but the scale is kind of funny with All Ships.
Anyways it's you know it's not perfect but generally one at
12:00 is the scale that it's it runs at which is kind of similar
to Epic scale. So, it's sea battles and it
represents all of the, or almost all of the standard Warhammer
fantasy races. I think the only races that
aren't officially represented by Games Workshop for Manowar are
the ogres, and what else? And of course, fans of the game
have made their own rules for those weeks.
But there are there's three basic ship types for Manowar.
And the first and largest ship ships are called Man O'War.
And they're generally, like, your big Flag ships of the
fleet, that's where you put your admirable in your Sorcerer.
And yeah, this is, those are the biggest ships, the man of
Warships. And then you have squadrons
which are smaller ships and they work in groups of three.
So ahead, you'll have three ships, like three War galleys
and you have to pick one of those War galleys to be your
Flagship for that Squad. Aaron and the other ships have
to stay within six inches of the flagship for the Squadron and
that's it. They just creates sort of a a
unit. Yeah.
And you have to maintain that for your Prius quadrants and
then you have also independent ships and they can be large or
small ships but they are single ships and they don't have to
follow any unit cohesion. Uhl.
So an example of Independence would be like the dark elf death
Fortress which is a large sea dragon or the dwarf.
Yeah, the submarine ship, they can, they can move around on the
rim, pay any attention to unification and then you also
have flying or flying units. So, you know, that like orc
wyverns and the ks, dwarf, have the bull Taurus and some of
those have to work in squadrons and some of them don't.
So some of those can be invented.
And you also have sea monsters, which are probably my favorite
models in the whole game. Just just the way they look they
look like they, you know, come right off the ships charts of
here, be monsters, you know, they've been there.
Great sculpts, they're really cool models.
Sea and the sea monsters in Manowar.
I think they're very powerful and it's great to see those in
games that they had a lot of colors of the game.
And I think they're told they were points as opposed to the
Flyers. The Flyers create a lot of
flavor also, but they're all free.
Fragile. So not a people not a lot of
people use the pliers. And one of the one of the
notable things for Manowar is that as a game that uses
alternating activation rules. So a lot of the games from this
are the 90s like Warhammer fantasy and 40K second edition
where a you go. I go set up where your opponent
would move, all of his Miniatures and resolve all of
the attacks. And Resolve all of that
completely. And then after he was done, you
would move all of your Miniatures and do the same
thing. So it was it creates kind of
aesthetic period where you're watching your opponent you know,
move everything and resolve combat but for Manowar you move
one mentorship or you move one Squadron or one independent ship
and you resolve the attacks and then your opponent moves one.
So it's a more dynamic Ian. I don't know why they didn't do
that for four games like neck from under your skirmish games.
But yeah, they did it for me an award.
I think it works. Really, really great.
Now on the topic of like, unique rules for any qualities of the
game, are there, anything is there anything else that you
particularly like about Man O'War?
And I guess I'm kind of thinking With the question of what, what
kind of gamer is Manowar going to be a good fit for?
Or is there any organ? Go, the opposite direction to
its age? Anything that you don't that you
don't like about me and war. That a certain player might not
like, One of the things that really attracted me to Manowar
is that it's a relatively low model, count game, that's what
attracted me to Nick or Munda. And I kind of learned it learned
the hard way with 40K because like before TK I chose Orcs And
that's a lot of models to paint and it was intimidating and I
never did finish painting my orc, Army and 40K and when I
went to necromancy actually chose scat.
Eddie's which has got the highest model counter that he is
again. So I kind of eventually learned
that lesson that I prefer games with relatively low bottle,
Townsend. And Man O'War the most part, you
know, just depends on how big an you want to play, but most of
the games you can manage with each person playing maybe like 9
or a dozen models per side. Now, you bring up Manowar.
I'm sorry you bring up nectar, Mundo, and it reminds me of
something that I like about Manowar.
Now, in nectar Moon, Especially the base game.
There are six gangs in that but they're all basically the same
gang just different names and models, you know?
But with man of war there are also six fleets, but they all
feel so very different. No.
Yeah, in my recent, you know, playing of the game, that's
something that's really been. Come to, my attention is how
much You know, you're different. Playstyle different models, even
the the ship of a line, which are all you mentioned before in
groups of three and many of the ships of the line for each of
the fleet's cost 150 points for three models.
So they're the same point cost but in the In the ship
templates, in all of their weapons, and firing arcs and
armor saves, all of those things are vastly different.
And that's something that really impresses me about the game is
how how, how different they are it at the same time, how
balanced they are with the exception of works.
But that's the whole look, I think they are right.
If you don't get me started on the port works.
Yeah the fleet's are that They are quite different especially
in how they move. A lot of times people will learn
that, particularly for beginners the door fully and the Empire
Fleet are two of the best for initially learning the game
because you the Empire they have, we'll both fleets really.
They got a lot of options in moving the Empire Fleet can move
by sale or by ores which makes them useful, you know if they
lose one, it's loser. Sales with who lose their oars,
they can still keep on playing the dwarfs and some of the other
fleets, they get a lot of advantage and how they can turn.
So you don't need to deal with the Turning template so much and
you don't have to worry about their steam-driven so you don't
have to worry about the rules on how the wind affects your ship.
So yeah, they're they're they're definitely each speech.
Fleet Fleet has definitely got its own flavor.
I mean, you got the, you got the dark elves that hurt.
You know, they're all on giant dragons either want to do the,
we're going to do this. He's so yeah.
They're definitely each got their own flavor and their own
personality that's for sure. Now even though they are
different to each other. One of the possible downsides I
guess a Manowar is you're not going to see a whole lot of
variation from one players, dwarf lead to another player's,
dwarf lie or you know or any of the racist.
Like, if I were to go with the 100-point, high elf Polly, it's
probably almost exactly the same as your 100-point high out flee.
And that's just the nature of the limitations of how many
options are available to. Yeah.
Yeah, that's about the only way you can really change that up as
if you start taking allies or if you.
Yeah right. Yeah it's it.
You're right. As they are called the pretty
similar in that in that regard, did you?
Did you play Manowar back in the 90s?
Is that when you first got exposed to it or is it later?
Yes. Yeah I had the base game when it
first came out and I hit played a couple games of it just out of
the box. I remember I had a high elf
Fleet and I was incredibly intimidated by painting.
It I wasn't a very skilled modeler back then either.
And the original man of Warships.
Do require a little bit of of modeling finesse, I think to get
the The mass into sales and yardarms everything, just right.
But yeah, I did play it back in the day and then but not very
much and it wasn't until I think maybe 2010, I think is when I
kind of got a Resurgence and, and was able to get another copy
and then start my collection again.
And with your Brit relatively short amount of time, I ended up
collecting. Literally everything for the
game. Oh yeah.
Yeah. And it, how do you collect most
of that from, like, local sales or Book or Ebay, a little bit of
a little bit of everything. Yeah, I One one place I found
that was kind of invaluable, which is, maybe a well that's
been dried up at this point is BoardGameGeek because I know
there was a lot of people out there who have the game and they
kind of solve it as a board game and maybe they were, you know,
miniature Gamers otherwise and they you know, had it listed for
sale or trade. And so I made some you know,
trade Flash sales that way and I could, I think of maybe they
just didn't realize the value of it or the maybe not the value
but the demand for it, right? Idle time or that was you know
over ten years ago I was talking to another guy on a big crowd of
command Discord group about he was asked me what I thought was
the source of the like Resurgence in popularity of man.
Award. And some of that might just be
some of that might be biased because, you know, you and I are
both seeing it so it feels like a Resurgence to us perhaps.
But I don't know, you know, it's hard to tell how much of a
Resurgence or Renaissance. There really is.
But my theory was that the root the uptick in interest in
Manowar, followed a lot of the same Genesis as some of the
other older games. During covid.
And when everybody was on lockdown and they did everything
they do, they started painting their old models.
And my life didn't really change or my work didn't really change
during covid but I saw on Facebook and everything.
I saw everybody else starting to paint bold Warhammer fantasy.
Now we're Hammer fantasy models and fourth edition stuff and
give you stuff that they had squirreled away and and we're
using for hobby time now. And so that's where my That's
where that's where I started getting back into Manowar was
during covid. So I picked up those models from
my brother had a bunch of them, but I picked them up from him
and started painting them. And also, I think some other
things that have had a big influence on Man, O'War are the
Advent of 3D printing charm that get, you know, that goes the
same for all that. The old geezer have print, a 3D
printing has been a remarkable resource being able to get those
off both models that are You know, worth their weight in gold
now. And also all of us, you know,
man of war came out in 1993, I think.
And then it was pretty much out of credit by 1998 dish.
And so, all of those players are initially got into it are older.
Now they might have more time on their heads, more money on a
hand and they're willing to, you know, Chase down some of that
Nostalgia and pick up those. Pick up those models and start
painting them and play with them again.
Yeah, I think Nostalgia is definitely a big factor at least
it is for me. And, like you said, you know,
considering the age that we were at when we discovered the game
and the age that we're at. Now, I know for me, it's almost
like, you know, you're going through a midlife crisis or
something and really wanting to revisit some of the, some of the
things that you were into whether it be music and movies
or, you know Hobby. But you were into when you were
at maybe like the Golden Age of your life and that certainly is
a factor for me and we'll get into it here a little later, but
I think Nostalgia can play a big part or at least it's going to
make it. It's going to be a big deciding
factor of what you're willing to accept as far as proxies or, you
know, like the 3D printing goes. Yeah, just from my My personal.
I am absolutely a Nostalgia player.
So I have to have original everything because that's just
what I'm into now. There are other games that I'm
not so nostalgic for because I never I didn't really have that
connection with. So game is like epic Space
Marine. I'm totally fine doing proxies
of everything because I don't have that nostalgic connection.
Yeah, you know. See I've got that.
Collection our connection and I do have a few resin casts of the
original models. And I ended up getting those
because I was planning a trip to the def Con in Chicago should
be, you know, gaming convention, and I and I wanted to have some
complete fleets to be able to put those out there for other
people to play and teach. And so that's I needed.
I was kind of a deadline. So I grabbed them but now that
I've Paid animal up, got those, there's proxies painted, you
know, you can't really these ones that I have.
You can't tell from the originals until you pick them up
and I'd rather, you know, at this point just keep on painting
the models. I've got rather than replace the
the resin once they'll do for now.
But yeah, it just depends on the plane that their priorities, all
right, on that. Topic.
I want to go off script here but it does seem like when it comes
to 3D printed stuff. There are some some models that
maybe the printers, or whoever's designing.
These seem a little scared to copy too closely.
The original stuff. Yeah, always with, with some
games, you know, perhaps Manowar, Maybe.
Depending on the designer itself, they're perfectly fine
with scanning the exact dimensions and maybe they
figure. Well, manowar's kind of dead
anyway and games workshop's, not going to come after you for
that. So yeah, they're okay with
having those exact replicas and in that case.
Yeah, I do find that. That's that satisfies my
Nostalgia. If it's exact.
Yeah you're the end of the The location of where those files
are hosted. Learned has a has a effect on
how long they stay up. Also, for instance, I know a guy
that hosted some some models that look very similar to the
original ships but they were, he sculpted them up himself in the
computer program, so they were not exact copies, but enough
people on thingiverse reported it, I guess.
That thingiverse got a you call it at a DM.
See a notice, it's a Sands for Digital Millennium something I
don't know but those files on thingiverse went ahead and just
took all those files down right away.
Whereas other Colts 3D is another hosting site that seems
to be safer for those kinds of files but I don't know anything
about 3D printing really. I don't have a family of my own
so yeah. All right, so we wanted to talk
about how are some different ways that people can get started
on putting together the resources, they need to play a
game, a Manowar that would say that the biggest single Source
online right now is probably the Warhammer Manowar.
Facebook group, there is a file section in that Facebook group
that has just a ton of files. That it would take you to the
better part of a day to go through, but they in there is
pretty much everything that you need to print off to go ahead
and get started. You'll have to if you go to that
group and go into the file section, you'll need to sort
through a lot of the fan-made stuff.
If you don't want, you know, not official rules.
But I've got a list here, some of the Some of the best files
that are there, in my opinion that are in that group.
And the first is the Manowar commute.
This. The file is, is titled
man-of-war Community rule book and it's all three of the rule
book. So it's the is the core box rule
book and then it's the rule book from sea of blood which is why
the expansions for Men of War and it's a room booked for
playing Fleet which is the second expansion for Manowar.
And that file has all three Rule books compiled into a single
PDF. So that's a like, a One-Stop
shop to get all of your rules right there, which is pretty
great. And if you print those out with
your computer printer, you'll probably end up with a better
paper quality than the original Rule books actually, or because
they were, they were pretty pretty basic back then.
Yeah, yeah, just yeah, black and white paper back rule books back
to any of them. They're definitely basic and I
know you wanted to discuss. You wanted to touch on like
don't do what I did. Topics one thing that I do when
I print it out that rulebooks was, I put them all into a
single three-ring binder. And I put all the pages in she
protected her. So I what I ended up with was
like a four inch thick, three-ring binder that needs a
Code table to be able to use it. So, I would advise Doing that
and I think printing them out going to Kinkos or an office
supply store and getting them printing out and print it out
into a spiral bound. Book is probably the best way to
print out your rule books. Do you have any advice on that?
Yeah, I agree with you on that. Another thing that's kind of
common of roll books around that time or there are some rules
that are hidden all sometimes. it rolls would be like hidden
within within a flavor, text description of something and one
resource, I don't know if you were planning on mentioning or
not, that I've come upon is if you Google the Easter tarek
order of gamers, I don't. Is it your reversal head?
I think is the maybe the name of the person or?
Yeah, he's the guy that it's not mistaken.
He's the guy that did the playing card sized.
Ship templates. Yeah.
Okay. Okay, there's also like player
Aids on there that are. They're very extensive and they
have like all the rules you'll ever need printed on like one or
two page. Yeah, I know this references and
those are those are Nice and even some of the ship templates
that they've come up with have extra little rules in there that
you might not find on the the original ship templates and you
might have to look it up and roll book for, but it's really
nice to have it all in one. One place.
Is it since? Yeah.
I know the his templates have like the the the special rules
for the driller. Killer that work, girl, Achilles
ship. Right?
Right here. Is it that the attacks for that
ship? And it also probably the biggest
thing about those playing card sized templates that he made is
that it's got the firing arcs for all this.
Yes. Right.
Was the original templates don't
and that's super useful. Another thing that people might
want to consider when they're putting out their rule book, is
that like there were, there were several ships, like the dwarf
Dreadnought and And the Imperial hell hammer, and Iron Fist.
Those were all released in the sea of blood rule book.
So if you want to put the rules for those in the big list of
like Imperial ships in the main rule book, they use need to
switch those pages around Ativan.
Because otherwise, if you're looking for rules for the for
your door Fleet, if you got a Dreadnought, you're going to be
looking into two, separate rule books.
Another, another good file that Facebook group is called the
Manowar Community annual and that is a full color collection
of all of the white dwarf articles and Citadel Journal
articles, and it's 130 pages long.
And the first 70 pages are all of the white dwarfs articles in
there, you know, full color, They're really nice scans there.
If if you're interested in, you know, reading a lot of fluff and
battle reports and that sort of thing for the game and have them
having those at hard copies. And that would be the way to go.
That's weird to find those and the The Citadel Journal articles
are Mostly include like, special magic rules for the Orcs And The
High Elves of the dark elves and it's got rules for Undead Fleet
and it rules for usually boats like longboats, that's where
things are. Those are, there's a nice to
look through. I've never actually played
against an undead Fleet, there's no models.
Forever. Least for them, but it's neat to
have those rules. Also in the files.
Are they have color Renditions of all of the magic cards and
dwarf Rune cards, and that sort of things and the Citadel
Journal articles. So those are really nice to
have. I printed off a copy of the or
quad magic, which is probably got shot on that probably like,
about 30 cards or so. And there is a board game geek,
which you mentioned earlier, has some good.
A good guide on how to create your own unique cards for those.
If you want it to go through that to meet those, that extra
flavor for you, for your fleets use those cards.
And kind of curious. You mentioned the like the
Citadel journals and oh, and a white dwarf issues.
Are there any particular rules in those that you regularly use
or that you really enjoy? Well, the I always use the orc
magic cards because I've got them printed out, put it off and
I think they you know, they add some flavor they're fun to use.
I think I think all of the magic cards are good for that the boat
rules are not, I don't think they'd really be that useful in
the game. But you know, that's probably
the orc magic cards with the other main thing that I should
be so bad. Yeah, I'm kind of a purist.
Then I usually play with, you know, just base game stuff.
But the one article that I use all the time is the 14.
It's different costed Wizards. Like, I think, in the base game,
the Wizards caused either 50 100, or 150 points.
And there's an article that discusses like different scales
of wizards where you can have, like a 75 Point Wizard, or a 125
point, you know? And then they just get different
number of cards each turn and I use that all the time just to
The more easily get to an even number that I need to create a
fleet. Yeah, it's a different.
Most people will end up using her buying like what they call
the man of work hard. Yeah, so like little extras for
your ships but yeah that's another way to that's probably
in my opinion of buying a more powerful sorcerer probably the
better way to get to those book. Get to that point goal that
you're trying to get to. Let's see what else we got in.
There are also in the file section of that same Facebook
group. They have, there's an Excel
sheet that's got all of the measurements of the models and
mm. So if you were 3D printing your
own ships, or if you're making grown like cardboard cutouts of
your ships of ships, or whatever, to get a game in, you
can exactly match up the dimensions of the ships.
There's also there. So in 2011 Games Workshop
released a game called dread Fleet.
Yeah a lot of people got excited about because we thought it was
going to be an official re-release of Man O'War, but it
was not that at all. It had some pretty neat-looking
ships in it, but the game played quite different from an award.
From what I've heard, most people played it a few times and
then Back to it. But if you wanted to use some of
those ships four in your Fleet as proxy models, or whatever
there are fan-made rules for those ships in the Facebook
group. So, that's another option for
you to look through. If you happen, to have those
ships in the one, put them ceased to some, use the, the the
ship for dread Fleet. I think it's called, I want to
say it's called Ken Reeves necropolis.
It's like a, it's like a, it's an undead ship.
It's got Pyramid in the middle of it.
I think that would be just about perfect for the undead Fleet
list and said it'll Journal that would be make a good model for
that but otherwise yeah those are strictly fan-made stuff if
you want to use dreadfully. In the paper craft models, I was
just looking them up right now. I've seen them before but I was
curious to see when they were made.
They're insane. Yeah.
Aren't they? That's what that's another.
That's another month. That's another hobby.
All to itself, for sure. I was looking like, okay, this
has to have been done before 3D printing before any technology
that would You know, allow for ships to be made in another way,
you know, I don't know, it's I don't know which would take more
time. It's to actually like to whittle
them out of wood or to create them out of paper.
So R1 just they're pretty cool but it's yeah, it's wild skill
level. I think they were.
I think they came out before 3D printing, they had to because.
Yeah, because the the first time I saw them was on, there's a
group. It used to be Yahoo group but
it's called The Sea of clause. If you people want to Google
that, I would Google like Warhammer Manowar, see of Claus
Yahoo group and you can log-in, you'd have to make an account,
but that's a basically, a forum group form.
An award that has just about the same number of files as the
Warhammer Manowar, Facebook group, it's got, you know, all
the stuff that we've already talked about this in there.
It's just, it doesn't get as much traffic as the Facebook.
Does that predated Facebook? Because it was, it's pretty
basic. But yeah, it's made of a strong
Community going for Manowar since way back when Yeah, the
see if see, if cause group dated the website is for the form, is
not as easy to navigate its Facebook and also as probably
has something to do with why it's than get as much traffic.
But yeah there's that there's a ton of there's a ton of
resources in their people. Look at all sir.
Yeah, absolutely. It's great.
Some other things that are in the that are in the file section
of the men of War. Facebook group are the question
it. Question, and answer sessions
with Andy Jones, for basically clearing up some some rules
questions. I guess, that'd be Errata
nowadays. But there there's white word.
Particles are in the file section, the, the playing card
size shipped up with that, we talked about already are in
there. Another thing that makes those
great is that Manowar, you know, it takes a lot of table space
and the templates also take a lot of table, tennis, table
space. So if you are On table space and
for you got small room or whatever those playing card
sized ships, templates are definitely useful.
We use those a lot at the convention that I went to just
because we had a limited number of tables, but for me, I think
I'm going to guess that you're probably the same.
I really like using the original cart, the large templates and
using all of the counters for the game.
That's part of the fun of noobs me.
Well it's funny. You mentioned the templates
because I also hosted a game at a convention.
No actually, I hosted two simultaneous games, so there
were eight, what no more players.
Yeah, for players and in each game and I offer players the
option. If they wanted to use those
templates and every person preferred to use the original
ones in the box. But I think that was mostly for
Nostalgia. They wanted to play the original
game at is her space. Yeah, I I often will I have that
those sheets just as a reference.
Yeah, even though I'm using the And I think what you probably do
as well, in case anyone doesn't realize those templates.
I laminated them. And then you can use like a dry
erase marker to mark off damage and things like that.
Yeah, yeah. Dry erase or grease pencil.
Whatever mark on him, were you three?
You teaching those people how to play Manowar?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there were around.
Yeah. For the, I think, every one of
them either they had never played before or they were
familiar with the game. I'm from from the 90s.
They just never had an opportunity to play or maybe if
they had, they forgotten long ago, you know, anything about
the game? Yeah, yeah.
So there's that. Yeah, the full-size templates.
Those, you know, those files are in there.
You can print those off. You and pretty much anybody that
plays the game is going to have to eventually make more of those
templates because they only gave you, you know, like in the Box
said they gave you enough templates for just the war
galleys of written there. And then we by sea of blood, it
was like you know it or plague. Fleet they gave you three
templates for the iron that chaos iron sharks and he might
want to feel two or three squadrons of those, your end up,
you're going to eventually make your own anyways, there are
interesting Lee enough. There are new skins of the sales
in the Facebook File section. But you can find those easily
online. You just if you just do a Google
search for 400 Manowar sales, you'll come to a website called
collecting Citadel Miniatures and that's got scans of all of
the sales sheets. So when people will, when they
were selling these each box, that will come with these cheap
of a whole bunch of sales that you use for that particular
Fleet and you would, you could either cut them out or Copy of
it and use those but that's what that's what the these files on
the collecting. Citadel Miniatures website.
Are there just scans with those sales sheets that are not
perfect? You know, there is a copy of a
copy and you might see some creases in there, but it's a
pretty invaluable resource. So on to how to build your
fleets. So, This is this will pretty
much follow. The same route is anyone trying
to build any army lists from a game that's been a prank, you're
going to have to find it you know, second hand on eBay or on
Facebook or whatever and you'll have to basically come up with
your own rules in terms of what you want to buy, do you want to
buy only the original models? Do you want to buy proxies and
that sort of thing? I would just briefly give my
personal advice in my personal opinion, on buying things off of
eBay. In social groups are to first of
all, take your budget and then stage that money.
So we're so set aside two or three hundred dollars or
whatever. You can afford to be used for
that game for those models and then just look for large, lots
and Bargains on those websites. And if you're patient, you
absolutely can find good deals. I just saw two days ago.
I saw some dwarf ironclads. Three of them sell for 16.
Dollars, which is about half, what they would set would have
sold for, you know, knew when they were first when they were
first released. So there, if as long as your
patient, they're absolutely some Bargains out there.
Another big thing that I would advise people of is, to be aware
of your restrictions for your Fleet lists, so I'll take.
Tarp Dark Elves is a example just thinking the same thing.
Yeah. If you want to buy death
fortresses which are the big independent seat chefs for the
dark elf Fleet, you can have one death Fortress for every
Squadron of Doom, reboot CPAP you have in your black, mark of
negar. Off counts is a doom, doom,
reverse Squadron for this purpose.
So if you have two squadrons of Doom, reavers and a black Arc,
that means you can buy three death fortresses but a lot of
times people see the deaf portraits and it looks so much
like Doom reversed the smaller models that they buy those at
like squadrons but they're they're independent ships and
it's real easy to get way too many endings.
I've seen this several times on just on the Facebook group where
people have like six or seven or whatever death for purchases and
I've got a few extras myself and you have to you have to have a
massive Fleet to be able to feel that many of that particular
model. So print out the rules and tell
if your points at figure out exactly.
Only what you can actually feel before you start buying those
models. And I said, let's give anything
else to add on the subject of eBay and buying these models in
terms of The Originals. Well, I know what I bought mine.
I must have gotten them from someone who was a week Astor,
who was selling them on eBay because Just I got her super
good deals like the price was very low and I bought them and
you know I get them. and see sometimes like tiny
imperfections which made me think that they weren't original
don't But yeah, I think you're right.
As far as you just gotta be patient and set like an alert or
whenever you know, Certain things are being added on on
Facebook, or on eBay. I know for the longest time any
time something would come up, that would say Manowar, I would
get notifications and I'd see, you know, pictures of the
racehorse all the time, you know, on eBay because you know,
the famous race horse man of war.
Which yes, but yeah, you can find it if you if you if you
wait, and I've noticed more and More off than on the Facebook
group, even people sell, you know, people making sale posts
and things like that. So it's out there for sure.
Yeah. And and value is totally
subjective. I've never removed my text
alerts for Manowar, Prosthetics of eBay.
I've finished buying my fleets years ago, but I still watch the
prices and everything. And so, I generally say that for
like a squadron of three ships, $30 is about an average price on
eBay. What I think they should sell
for. And same thing for the Big Man
Award ships, but it just depends on how much money.
'You've got burning a hole in your pocket, which willing to
spend on how bad you want them. So there's also tons of proxy
models available. If you go to Ed see you can go.
You can search up to two stores in particular, what is called 3D
printing b b with a z and then the other one is called realm of
3D prints and they both have some pretty pretty nice looking
models. They have oil and they're like
it's like a couple bucks each for, for those bottles.
I'm trying to navigate over, see what a dancey store right now.
Yeah, it's 3D printing B. The models are a little bit
rougher there there. Little bit less detailed than
the other seller but I mean go on go on Etsy and search him up
and have a look at those that is like, you know, be what you
would like to use for for your man-of-war.
Cleats. There's also there's a company
over in France called Mal boxes. So it's Mo w box and he's got
some resin proxy fleets for for Elizabeth lizard-men Fleet which
is completely fan-made Fleet with the models look, brilliant.
If you're just dead set on having a lizard man sleep for
your man of war games and that would be the place to go those
those those models in my opinion are just fantastic.
Aspic and those were sculpted by a guy named certified butchers
name its Louis Coogan Burger, but his fleets are brilliant.
And then there's also a guy named Gareth Nicholas who
printed or eise. He sculpted some proxies for
High Elves that I think are beautiful and I think they
would, you know, depending on your taste.
If it's Nostalgia isn't the only thing you're looking for, those
pleats are that high elf league is arguably even nicer looking
than the original one. And then some, you know, other
fleets if you want Imperial fleets or cleats that are 3D
printed or resin cash, you know, I would just say go on to The
Chronic man Discord and just start asking around and people
can get you to linked up with the resources, you need for
that. There are two companies that
produce metal historical models. So computer historical models
that would function well for If you wanted to create a petronia
fleet or an Empire Fleet out of proxy models, one is called
valued and Enterprises and they are the cheaper of the of the
two or the less expensive of the two and sorry.
I'm trying to get over to them. They have all kinds of ships.
They're the correct scale. I bought, I've actually bought
some of these but I never painted them up because I bought
them. And then, you know, they sat on
painted and in the meantime I ended up finding the ship's.
I needed the original Manowar models on eBay, so I haven't
actually painted them up, but there's the scale is perfect and
the sales are metal, they're arguably more detailed than some
of the other than a lot of the men of War fleets and then The
other the other company that sells mental models, that I
found was, is called GHQ models that think, stands for gamers
headquarters, they sell one to 1200, scale ships.
You might actually, you might also have heard the of them
called microdots. But anyways, it's the poliana
cage ship. So you can get the, you get the
HMS Victory, and The elephant elephant.
He's smart Trinidad. Yeah.
Anyways. Really.
Beautiful models. Some of them actually get
breaking so they probably would look a little out of place or
actually they probably look a lot out of place in a Man Award
table with other men of War fleets.
But they're beautiful models act like I'm than go for it and put
your feet on the table as long as your opponent, like a agrees
to it and they should be anything wrong.
The only, the only thing I would say about them is they're
substantially more expensive. Those are about 20 bucks per
ship, so you're going to spend, yeah, more on those.
And you would probably finding the original models on eBay.
Hey, I could question going back to the finding models on eBay
and such one of the challenges that I had when I was
collecting. I could find the metal holes but
it was very difficult to find the plastic.
Masts and yardarms. Oh yeah.
Are those do you know of any 3D print options for?
Just the mass and yardarms, there are three different
options. The, the thing I would warn you,
I bought I got a bunch of from from mailbox which are resin
casts of those, those masts and yards and the resin gets pretty
brittle over time. So you have to really be careful
those models because they will snap like nobody's business.
So you have to be careful about using using resin. those
particular pieces, but I have not, I have not used any 3D
printed ones, but I know that they're out there and I know for
that for the pennant bowls that goes on top of the goes, on top
of the Mast, there is a, there's a Similar very similar piece
played by epic, right? We're having miles.
I don't know what exactly do something play epic but it's an
Apple for me for the Epic. Yeah, okay, yeah, well those
those are perfect. I've had been able to find those
on e-Bay without any problems. So there's exam that too but for
the pennant pools in particular I would recommend that.
But yeah I haven't used any 3D printed masks.
I know some people will use cocktail toothpicks.
Yeah, but it's not as much detail as the original masks.
Then well years ago, when I was collecting, I found the mother
lode of auction. Someone was selling many, many,
many, sprues of mass and yardarms.
So I have more than I will ever be able to use if someone is
looking to recreate the original, find me on Discord.
Chris Snider, send me a message. And I'll, I'll make sure you get
what you need. Yeah.
And that's, that's not we really should.
Should press. For this podcast, is, if you
have any questions at all about Manowar, go to The Chronic man
podcast, Discord, Channel, and find us there or go to the
Warhammer man-of-war. Facebook group, ask around, are
will end up seeing it and we'll get you a cup with the
resources. You need to get started.
Yeah. It seems like those kinds of
groups, you know, they're like personal groups, you know, and
everybody is very friendly, and they're not trying to make money
off of you. They want to help you to achieve
your hobby goals. So we all we all want workload
is the right. Right, exactly.
Okay, so, the next, the next and last thing I wanted to talk
about was the space that you need.
You're going to need and the max that you use to get a Seascape.
So the the game is generally played on either a 4 by 4 or 6,
5, 4 space. I've played it on both
generally. If Just two people playing.
You don't have like a three way match from, for a match.
It can do. It can be done just fine or a
4x4 back because he's a 6x4, you send up with a lot of space that
doesn't get used, but having a six platform at is great to get
that if you don't have a table already, a kitchen table or
whatever, this big enough for that, size of the game, then
what I did was I just went to Lowe's and Bought two of the
regular plastic folding tables that are, they're very
ubiquitous over here States. I don't know if they are your
but there, it's like 50 bucks and it's a 6-foot long table,
and it's two and a half feet deep, which gives you a 6x5
area, which is perfect for having enough room for a mat and
also being able to put your templates and Rule books and
stuff out. So that's what I did.
So a hundred bucks will get you a table that's perfect for that
little fold up and get put away. I don't know what kind of mess.
You got Chris, but I've got both of, I've got all.
I've tried a vinyl mat and I've tried a new cream at, and I've
tried to cloth one. So I've also done the same
thing. So, yeah, so what I found with
the cloth mats is that, you know, you can get a really nice
looking table with a piece of brush blue velvet.
Exactly. Oh yeah, yeah.
Or whatever. The only problem I found with
that is that if you don't put something underneath it to
basically hold the cloth in place.
Then every time you touch the model or try to move the model
on the Velvet, it bunches up and creates a great goal and it can
be kind of annoying during the game.
So if you go that route with a big piece of velvet, then you
probably need to put down like a tablecloth or something.
Something with more texture on it underneath the belt, at
least, that's what I found. I want money trying to use that.
And the large piece of velvet can easily cost, you know, 20 or
$30. So, in my opinion you might as
well. Just go ahead and invest in
buying a proper Mac from a gaming store and the what I
found with the vinyl mat was that it doesn't quite fit,
doesn't look quite as good and photographs because it can pick
up some glare but it's really nice for moving your models
across because they just Wide right across the plastic.
Another one of the disadvantages of buying all the said it it
holds its form pretty easily, so if you've got it rolled up and
you need to use it for a game. What I end up doing is putting
it out son for a couple of minutes.
Let the Heat and sunlight, warm it up and it lays up nice and
flat. And then I managed to get a
neoprene that 6 bucks for from a company called Frontline gating,
which I think most people have probably heard of, which is
normally an eighty dollar, Matt. I got it.
Used off of noble Knight games for $40 now $50.
So, and it came with the game with the carrying case and text
along EXO's, I was happy with that deal but neoprene is I
haven't found any disadvantages yet to be afraid.
It's too. I can move This ship's crossed
it just as easily as the vital one.
And I like that one more for taking photographs and also Your
thoughts on that. Yeah, I also have a, I have a
4x4 Frontline games neoprene mat and it's I'll never play with
anything else. That's.
Yeah, way to go, like you said, it looks good.
It the model slide across it very easily and I play a fair
share of remote games, so yeah glare is not something I like to
deal with. So oh yeah, yeah, it worked out
well for that for sure. And always the thing is like
these models especially the originals.
There are, I don't want to say they're fragile but you don't
want to drop them, you know. Yeah.
And the neoprene it just feels squishy, you know.
It just feels safe to be able to if they tip over anything.
Nothing's Gonna, you know, get hurt and unlike cloth, it's not
going to move. Yeah, so that's yeah, my
recommendation. The money is it's definitely
worth the money to get a neoprene man.
And I think like you said, a 4x4, Ying space, playing space.
I mean as far as the where the ships are going to be you,
although you will need more for templates and things like that.
But yeah, I think even if even a three-by-three, I don't know why
that might be a little too small.
Yeah, the yeah that a lot. I've seen a lot of people say
good things about the cloth mat that cunt.
They came with the dread Fleet box set but that's a 3x5 that.
So it's a little bit stranger lay out there.
I'd probably be fine. I guess I've never actually used
that good sleep map. So I don't know how it plays how
good idea. I would think that well, the
rule book Specifically, mentions a 4x4 playing area and I think
three feet if you're three feet across from each other and
you're using deployment zones as per the rules, by which I think
is what 9 inches? And yeah, you're going to be
pretty close, pretty fast. Yeah, it could be the definite
disadvantage for some pleats. If he had to get them crammed up
on top of each other that early. Yeah.
Like the the payoff stores use large or one of their ships, use
the pretty large template for Brits attack.
So you don't necessarily want your ships in close with the
Enemy shifts right away. You want to have a couple shots
at them with that big template? So yeah man that's that's that's
about everything just about everything.
I could think of for how to get started in.
In man-of-war now because you did not mention that.
I just thought of myself is we can just kind of talk about this
off-the-cuff. What do you think about terrain
terrain? Yeah, so that the box set game
with about 12 pieces of terrain that I replaced all of them with
3D train. I ended up making my drain out.
I love. I have a lot of fun making drain
for games so is and it's, you know, not, it's a lot of fun to
take a break from take models for a little bit and and do
something different, but for the same Hobby and, you know, I love
the 3D trade but also the Nostalgia effect has its place
there. The old cardboard terrain
because the artwork is cool and the colors, Just you know put me
back in that mindset of when I was you know first playing this
game back in the 90s so I like cleaning there are actually I
don't you have direct scans of those original cardboard
terrain. I think I saw them somewhere.
Yep there. Yeah, those are those are
available. Those can be, I can't remember
where those got boosted. I can't remember.
I think they got, I think I just posted those on the Facebook
file section. That's right.
Call them. Okay?
Yeah, they can easily be It on on cardstock or printed and
mounted onto something and oh yeah, perfect.
Yeah. But you know it's going to come
down to the individual player when I play games with the 3D
printed. I mean, the 3D trade that I made
out of you standard foam core takes it all.
I kind of miss the cardboard turning out really.
Just, I just got me. I like to trade that.
I made a proud of it, but but you don't get the same.
Same exact same colors and everything.
So yeah, just just will depend on the player.
Suppose right making making terrain for Manowar is really
not that hard and it's yes, miss you.
When you making sand bars, maybe you could.
Oh yeah, he knocked out without half a dozen of those and
there's officer. Yeah.
Not as complex companies making ability for him, a fantasy or
something but yeah right. Yeah, it really re very easy to
make to make a complete set of 3D trade over the course of a
Week or so. Well, one other thing I thought
I'd like to bring up and this is a general, a general thought
with anybody who's looking to get into a new game.
I would strongly encourage you before you start spending any
money before you, you know, jump in on eBay or whatever.
Give the game a chance. Try to play it.
Before you invest in this to determine whether it's something
that's really right for you or not.
So if you don't know anybody who has the game and can't play it
that way, there's of course, remote games I've hosted ton of
remote games of Man O'War, and I apologize to those who I've
gotten started down the rabbit hole of that, I know there's at
least a couple guys, or if you don't have a chance to do that.
That at least get on YouTube and watch some some gameplay videos.
There's some really good ones out there of of very
descriptive. You know learning how to play
the game videos out there that you can.
You can learn how to play or just kind of get a feel for how
the game plays out. And really, I think that Man
Award is something that just about everybody is going to
enjoy. I can't think of a, of a gamer
who's not going to, you know, who's going to have an issue
with Manowar. It's very accessible.
There's your strategy to it. There's narrative to it.
A lot of crazy things happen. It's definitely up.
There is one of my favorite 90s GW games, I think.
Yeah, I didn't play like a ton of Warhammer or 4gw games with
played this and Nick Rimando and 40K.
Gosh, that's really about it blade whirring, my fantasy but
manowar's definitely favorite by far.
It's for sure. My favorite and you can run
remove games, I can I phone a few, so obviously Korea.
And I don't mind, you know, teaching people people have
never done it before I think I'm not sure.
But I think Clem when he he and I played, I think that was his
first game maybe and then now he's you know, he's making his
own Fleet so yeah, get on the, get on the crown of command
Discord and have a chat with us and we'll we'll get you hooked
up. All right buddy, that's all I
got for this. What do you think?
Yeah that sounds that sounds good to me.
I guess there's not much else more to say.
I'll probably think of something later.
Yeah, that's the way it goes. All right, man.
Well, it's been fun. I'm gonna this, this, this looks
like this section ends in 10 minutes.
Anyways, I'm about out of time. Anyways, this is very good.
Good spot to stop. Okay, sounds good.
Yes, thanks for. Thanks for joining me.
On this. Not making me.
Do it on my own. Yeah, no problem.
I'll catch you next time. Yep.
Thanks bye.