Hey, how's it going? Hey mate, how you doing All
right? Good.
Yeah, quite good. That's our regular sessions that
we used to have. Yeah, the gaming camaraderie,
that's for sure. So so it's really been, it's
really been four years, has it, since our first kicked it off.
I can't believe it either. Yeah.
Yeah, I I was actually, I was actually reflecting on this,
right. Four years.
It's it's been it's been a while, obviously, but I think we
come come a long way, right? Anyone.
What do you think? Yeah, I mean you know it's been
remarkable that it's still going for four years, people still
want to come on the on the actual podcast as a guest.
So I'm very happy about that initially because obviously you
think that people you know either going to just switch off
and they don't not really interested or maybe that people
just don't feel all that interested in coming on.
So four years going strong, 138 episodes, which is amazing.
We have 91,177 plays all time. So that's I think it's going
across all platforms. So like, that's Spotify, Apple
Podcasts, all of the other ones, all the other podcasting
platforms people download the podcast with.
And yeah, I think our pot, our very first one that we did for
5th edition, Weimer Fantasy is ranked 4th.
I think Andy Chambers are ranked one and two, and then Thomas
Perrin is ranked 3rd and we're ranked 4th, mate.
So congratulations, Justin. Remarkable.
I didn't think I have anything interesting to say at all in the
beginning, But you, I remember you told me a pretty interesting
origin story right in in the first episode.
I'm sure we actually, I'm not sure if we recorded it in in the
original form where you had to go back and and do it again.
But I think you, I think you told me the story of how you got
into the game first in the 90s and then you from, you know, the
first time you went from Australia over to to the UK and
worked for Games Workshop and you know a bit of a bit of that
detail. I wonder, I wonder if it's still
in there. Actually, I haven't gone back to
listen to the first episode, but I thought that was it.
A pretty fascinating story, right?
Yeah. I did.
I did listen to it and it yeah, the the podcast has taken some
interesting sort of stops and starts because initially
initially yeah I wanted, I wanted to take people like you
know I posted a question on on Facebook saying you know what is
your origin story in the hobby because I like listening to that
or learning about that from other people.
Got loads of responses in. I asked if they want to if I if
you want, if I could take your stories to a podcast.
Everything was yes. And I I thought, well I don't
know how to do it. And then Paul suggested, hey
let's start a podcast and say yeah, great.
So we did it one, one session. But he didn't want to do any of
the editing or anything like that.
So and I I that footage or whatever that podcast was.
That was a long time ago but that's now lost.
I'd I'd say in it's been deleted and gone And then I asked you if
you wanted to do it. My sister helped me get, at that
time it was Anchor FM to use that as a as a platform to host
the podcasts. You graciously, gracefully
agreed to come on with me to do it for the very first one.
And we did it, and then we did it through video.
So I didn't know how to get the video audio into the podcast.
So we had to delete that and we'll start again.
So, so third time, lucky as it were.
And then we did our first one together, yeah.
Yeah, and I'm I'm glad. I'm glad I could help you take
that off. Although I didn't, I think I
didn't manage to come back to do another one for a for a while.
So let's, well, let's see if we can rectify that a little bit in
the future since he dash basically got me into collecting
90s Warhammer Fantasy miniatures, which I I never
knew. I didn't know that much about
before I met him and now and now I have, you know, a couple, a
couple of armies already, you know, like in in metal in 90s
sort of metal goodness, you know the Wood Elves and you know you
graciously gave me some new orcs and goblins and some empire and
then some some chaos as well. So I got to get those all
painted up. So hopefully, yeah, hopefully we
can play some more games of those in the future as I get
those, get those painted up at some point.
Yeah I know you know you're the biggest advocate for fantasy
Warhammer so in many different editions, not not just you know
5th edition, because that's why I introduce you that.
But you you play 6th edition, 8th edition, probably ninth age
and now the old world as the new release comes out now for a lot
of Warhammer fans. So you've you've embraced every
edition you know now Renaissance as well with us here in in
Tokyo. Honestly, no, I mean, yeah,
absolutely. I mean, like, I actually,
honestly, I think I've played more 4th, 4th and 5th edition
and renaissance with you than any other edition now.
I think we broke our sort of broke the record and turned it,
turned it upside down, 'cause I think was it you or Nick or
somebody in our group were saying that, you know, actually
we remember our childhood fondly right when we were playing
games. But The funny thing is, I think
we actually play more games now than we did actually in our in
our childhood. Was it, did you say something
like that or somebody said something there?
Anyways, that's certainly the case for me.
Yeah, yeah. Because I played more games now
than I ever did back in the 90s, most of the time because I was
painting and I was very slow. Because I was only starting out.
So everything was a very slow process, getting things done and
learning how to paint and all that kind of thing.
So it took forever. So I wasn't going to paint with
unpainted models, play sort of play with unpainted models.
So, yeah, that's why now being, you know, 30 years on, much more
experienced, better painter, faster, you know, having the
time maybe more. So yeah, we both in.
We're both enjoying the, the hard work that we put in over
all these years. Yeah.
Really. Yeah.
No, Absolutely no. I mean, I think he certainly
inspired me to paint a lot more than I ever ever done before.
I never thought I'd actually get get a single unit done much less
you know about 1500 points or or so, but but that's remarkable.
And yeah, look I, I, I actually want to say you know thank you
Ashley for those four years, right.
I mean we, I think we we did quite a bit if we just you know
reflect on it four years of coming up and well visiting you.
So I think I got a little bit of noise in the background, if that
helps. Four years are coming up to to
Iberaki and and playing 5th edition, 4th edition renaissance
our our Kashua and Shiva sort of gaming, you know gaming I think
every month, every other month or so or at least at least once
or twice a year. You know I I think we got
something really regular going and a lot of people joining.
We got some new players. I think it's been, it's just
been so much fun, right. And I think it's just great to
see this little revival of the hobby, you know, amongst us, a
dozen or so of us. But I think it's, yeah, still a
growing community and I certainly have a lot of, I don't
know what what your top moment is, but I have some fond
memories, Josh, from our four years to five, you know,
including the the drafts, I think the game, when we reached
through a dragon Slayer sword or something, something like that.
Do you remember that? One that.
Was that was awesome? Yeah.
And also I've had the best game, best years of gaming with you
guys and I think the last one we played when the when you were
here for a brief short visit it was you and Nick and Wellington
and I, we played Orcs and Goblins versus The Empire and
that was my. I think that's my all time
favorite game of all the games I've played so far of any kind
of Warhammer. That was that weekend was just
brilliant for me. Yeah, I know I was, I was
awesome. I think we need, we need to
replicate that at some point. Let's see, maybe over the summer
I can come visit you in time. We can do do a big gaming day.
I think that was 2000 points for for all your listeners.
You can go see the video on your on your Patreon.
I think it was that 2000 points of Orcs and Goblins versus 2000
points of Empire, right? It's 4. 1000 points my.
Friend. Oh, no, sorry, 4000.
No, 4000 per side. No, you're right.
Oh, that was that was the epic. Yes, and it was because it was
drafting. There was no magic item, so we
basically just spent all their points on troops.
So Wellington brought all his his Empire Army up for Nick to
play as well. And he had Nick controlled the
artillery and and infantry and Wellington controlled all the
Catholic and you and I, we shared, you had all the orcs and
I took all the goblins from memory and yeah, that was it was
a great weekend. Really enjoyed so many laughs.
And yeah, people can watch that video.
It's exclusive to Patreon. But you know, it's it's worth
that $3 a month to just go and watch that for sure.
No, absolutely. Absolutely.
Yeah, you can. Yeah.
Basically. We can't even get a cup of
coffee. You can watch all this great
content. So this will definitely,
definitely do that. Now I actually I remember I
think the yeah, no, we should definitely do 2000 points per
person again in our next game. But I I remember now, I think
the game we played one, one of our favorite one of my favorites
was was the Big Elf. I think I had 1500 points of
what elves. You had 1500 points of High
Elves. And then we had I think it was
Paul and Wellington right? Each had 1500 points of Dark
Elves. That big Elf on Elf match was
was just hilarious. I think we had the we had all
the fun. What else?
We had all the flying, you know, the the flying infantry and and
heroes. And then I think somebody drew
the storm. What's it for?
The storm banners. Storm Soul banner or something.
Yeah, which you know grounded all the fires in the middle of
the middle of the battle battlefield on turn one and you
know we're just hopping around 11 inch for the rest of the
game. The the Dragon Slayer sword I
think against the the dark elf dragon and then your your
unfortunate hiles that you know, I think the one leadership role
in the whole, you know rolled up your whole line rolled up like a
car. Story story of my life playing
high oils, mate. I've never, ever play with them.
I should just keep them in the cabinet, make them look pretty.
And that's about it. That's that, that's the end.
That's the end of their story, basically.
No, it's it's hilarious. Yeah.
Look, Josh, look, I mean, I I
think, I just want to say, look, I think what you're doing is
awesome, right? I, I I love listening to your
your weekly podcasts and and and watching the videos and of
course playing playing with you and you know all of our other
friends. I unfortunately didn't you know
didn't get into the game in the 90s but I did other things in
the 90s so I can understand the value of sort of nostalgia
right? You can you can sort of see why
people like it because it kind of brings them.
I think it brings some happiness actually to just to see it
right. It's it's just something really
intangible. But seeing your your, you know
happy moments in your childhood through gaming being revived in
this way, it's just yeah, it's just really precious.
So no it's you're you're doing awesome work and I I really hope
that you keep going with it and hope you can find ways to
support you further. I got some crazy ideas at some
point we should try it actually we could do another show on
this. But you know, I I think we can,
yeah, we should, we should try some other things to do here.
Yeah. Thank you, my brother.
Thank you for those very kind words.
I don't know why we stopped doing it together, because we
did the first two together and then after that it just, it went
on me doing it solo. So I don't know what happened
during that time. That was four years ago.
I'm not sure. Maybe you had your, maybe had
your daughter. I think that's why maybe you had
your little baby girl at that time.
I think that's probably what happened.
Yeah, I mean, life just got life, just got a bit busy.
Well, let's see. I I think we can.
I can always try to come back or we can next time we play a
battle or something, we can come on and talk about it later, you
know, sort of comment on it afterwards, you know, maybe
maybe something, maybe something like that.
Yep, definitely, definitely. I'm always up for that, you
know, I'm always, always enjoy talking to you and talking about
Warhammer. And yeah, any opportunity we can
all get together, have a game, it's it's, I take that as a very
precious blessing, my friend. So it's it's good times, isn't
it? You know, Like, like I said,
we're playing the best, best days of gaming.
I think that comes through in our videos.
It comes through in the podcast where people would talk about
Warhammer and the the times in the 90s.
There is something very special that it capsulates the humor and
just the camaraderie. Like I said before, it's a
comradie of of you and your friends playing games, eating
McDonald's for lunch, sinking a few beers if you're old enough
and then, you know, rolling some dice and just watching all the
craziness happen before you. So yeah, it's a it's a great
hobby mate. So, and like I said, it makes me
very happy to come back to this, so yeah.
It's always a bit of happiness. Now my my dream would be to kind
of work less and do more Warhammer if you wouldn't do
that at some point. I think if I win the, if I ever
win the lottery, which hopefully be very soon to retire at 50,
I'll have to pay you out mate, from your work and move you back
here with your family. We'll we'll be around, we'll be,
we'll be around Japan. I'm sure we we kind of missed it
a lot actually. So we'll try to find ways to
visit whenever we can and I'll always try to come up and get a
get a game with you whenever I visit.
Yep, for sure, mate. We'll definitely welcome you
here and you're welcome anytime you and your family to come over
and have some games and chill out here.
Be good, mate. So yeah.
Summer roll on. Awesome.
Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah, last one, Josh, before before.
I'll probably have to head out after this, but I can.
You know me. I was wondering, we can convince
you to start a new army at some point, maybe we can financially
support you to do that. It's kind of sad you had to give
up, give up the Scaven. So let's see if we can we can
get you get you on a on a collecting journey or or
something that there's quite a bit out there actually now and
I'm sure you can you know your personal collection is always a
little bit different right. So again, yeah, I don't know.
We'll we'll see if we can find a way to get you going on a new
something a new project at some point for for yourself, that'd
be that'd be cool. Well, that's that's a wonderful
thought, Justin. I hope that I can complete other
armies and I'm very thankful for all the commissions that people
send me through heavy LED studios.
I do have a massive Scaven army being sent to me by a good
patron David on on on my Patreon, so when that comes
through I'd be able to start working on that and have that
sort of and as as another sort of, you know, flashback to
painting Scaven again. So I've got lots of great
projects coming up. Chaos Dwarf Army as well, just
sitting behind me on a tray here for Gordon to paint up.
So I get to relive those old armies through these commissions
and then get to play them on the channel, which is wonderful.
Unfortunately, I cannot afford to sustain such a collection at
the moment. But who knows?
You know? Who knows what's going to happen
in the future? I don't know.
I could get lucky. I could get those six numbers or
7 numbers, mate. I need them a lot.
Lot of tickets, all right. We'll, we'll see.
Yeah, maybe. Maybe if we can some of us can
get together and help you out. We'll see one of my one of my
crazy ideas. Go go fund me right people.
Fund other people to do craziest things in this world I think.
I think an army is actually quite quite tame I think in
comparison So well I asked you Dash, if he if you had your
choice you could pick one arm a new one to collect from.
Let's say the good you know the good old days 4th, 4th or 5th
edition. Which one would you pick?
Oh, wow. OK.
If I had to sort of just choose one, just.
Say, just say your your next one right?
Which are just. You know, yeah, I think maybe
it'll be a choice between Undead.
I think Undead of about the classic 4th edition book.
Undead seemed really interesting to me, that all the different
kinds of units they can take and the different type types of play
styles you can have with them. I think that'll probably be my
top pick. Or Empire is also a very
interesting army. And Chaos Dwarves would be the
other one. And Chaos I think they will
probably as terms of painting Chaos.
I think Chaos will be probably #1 in terms of painting with
empire, undead and Chaos Dwarves look just cool to play as a
theme and on the tabletop all the special rules and magic and
the wonderful models created back then.
So yeah, I think those four armies hold a lot of charm for
me still. Yeah, those are excellent
choices. You know how much I love the
undead? So that's that's got a lot of
variety you know that's a cool one to do.
But, but actually I think Empire would be great for you actually
because you know that the the painting, the variety you can do
with the painting actually the creativity around that is is you
know you can do a lot with that actually that could be a cool
one to to look into it as well and you have some of those
actually we can get that get that started again.
Yeah, I I do have an army, but it's now a Commission for a good
friend of mine in in the United States, David.
So I'm enjoying painting those for him and eventually bring
those on the channel and playing a a full Empire army with all
the, you know, wonderful characters and iconic war
machines and all that kind of thing.
So yeah, I mean I get to I get to realize or visualize
everything through other people's miniatures and I get to
paint them. So it's it's it's in a sense
it's a still a really pleasurable part of my hobby in
in a way my job is kind of my hobby.
So it's it's it that that's really beneficial to me in some
ways it's it's I'm, I'm, I'm actually doing more, playing
more, you know having more chances to paint different
miniatures, different armies than I ever did before.
So in a in a sense, it's really, really positive.
We're living the dream, Josh. That's it, mate.
That's it. I'll tell if I can live.
It's. Really.
Awesome. Yeah.
Yeah, I appreciate it mate. That's good.
And and if anything, like through the four years that I've
been doing this, I've created so many great friendships, like
with yourself and all the people on Discord, A lot of guys on
Discord, a lot of the a lot of people who supply me, the
miniatures or friends through the podcast or Discord or the
YouTube channel. And you know, our great bonds of
friendship we have with the guys here in our gaming group in
Tokyo as well. So yeah, I'm very, very grateful
for that because if I didn't have you guys, well, there is no
credit command, you know what I mean?
There is nothing. So I'm really grateful that you
guys can entertain me with all this craziness.
So. No, our our pleasure really.
I mean it's an awesome four years and I think we're going to
look forward to four more and and beyond.
So there's there's definitely more to come.
Absolutely, Matt. I've got, I've got a good 10 to
15 years ahead of me with with certain projects and everything
like that. So yeah, it's there's a load
loads more to do so each step by step and we'll get there and
hopefully people can just enjoy it and keep and to be
entertained and engaged that whole time through it.
So, yeah, all right, mate. Well, look, I know, I know
you're in an airport now. You're about to fly off jet set
somewhere off into some other country business.
So I really appreciate that and my listeners do as well to hear
your voice again, mate, after four years.
And we've got to definitely change that.
So we're going to get into contact again soon.
Talk about some different topics we can cover, maybe what what a
renaissance and how that sort of revolutionized or reinvigorated
our love of Warhammer in in Japan here.
Yeah let's let's go back and talk.
No I'm happy to join again and yeah I'll I'll be a bit less
busy over the summer and hopefully I can visit you again
we can play another game and but yeah happy to love to join the
show again and actually talk about maybe reflect and talk
about some of those games that are on the on the video.
You know, there's actually quite AI mean the videos are actually
quite comprehensive, they capture quite a bit, but there's
there's a lot behind it actually, a lot of stories and a
lot of fun experiences. So definitely it's been, yeah,
love to love to talk, talk a bit more about that if people are
interested actually. There's a lot of beer drinking
in the background, that's for sure there.
There is there is drinking and then a lot of swearing a.
Lot of swearing on my part. Usually you're very you're very
well mannered and don't don't curse at all mate.
But I'm I'm sort of the Australian so I can get away
with it more. But me and Wellington usually do
a lot of the swearing and you and Nick are very polite guys,
so you don't do that, so that's good.
We keep, we keep it in ourselves.
All right, my friend, Will you take care of yourself, Justin,
and take care of your family mate?
And we'll see you very soon. The summer is almost upon us and
we'll see you back here for another game and interview and
more beers to be drunk. Yeah, look forward to it, Josh.
Thank you so much. Good luck with everything and
all the best to your family as well.
OK. Thanks.
Man soon. Thanks mate.
Take care. Take care.
See you mate. Bye, bye.
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Crown of Command Podcast. So tell us, Dave, like that last
time you were on here was like 4 years ago on the Credit Kevin
podcast. So welcome back.
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
It's an honour. Mate, it's my honor.
Mate, you you're the 1st guest we had on the on the on the
podcast. So I'm just glad someone was
willing to to to be brave enough to come on to voice their voice,
their well, voice their voice or just be on air.
And you know, it's something that I think a lot of people are
not really all that comfortable with, but you were quite willing
at the time. And so, yeah, wouldn't really
appreciate it, especially under the circumstances of it being
really bad quality audio and the equipment wasn't all that up to
scratch, you know what I mean? So.
Yeah, I I listened to it again. I thought it was all right.
It's not too bad we had. I had this.
I had. The thing where at that time I
was recording straight through Anchor, So yeah, at that time
everything was fine, but when it compressed, it sort of overlaid
the audio parts. So you'll be talking, I'll be
talking a bit like delayed in time and oh, and I know some
people remarked on that. So I'm, I'm glad it's sort of
not that at at that stage anymore.
We're sort of progressed further now into the Zoom land, so yeah.
Actually, there's a few a few programs where you can separate
the audio. So like loop program called loop
back for instance, you can get a separate audio track for what's
coming in your through your microphone and what you're
speaking. Yeah.
That's kind of helpful when that happens.
Yep, Yep. All those things I hope to one
day learn. But at the moment Zoom is doing
doing just fine thanks to the Zoom gods out there who's making
this possible. But mate, you're you're just
showing me some of your your your tabletop.
You've got your own place now you you know hockey space.
Which is fantastic to hear since last time.
So what's been what's been? Sort of what's been in your eye
of attention? Like what kind of things are you
in really focusing on now in your hobby?
Yeah, honestly, I think, I think I was heading towards that when
we first met. But I think during, especially
during COVID I I became a lot more focused on what I actually
want to do with my hobby and I've kind of winnowed it down
quite a bit. My my collection now is like
it's really like a living shrine to the 1990s.
I'm I'm just very into the 1990s games, especially around the mid
90s. So I've I have like a lot of
different genres but I've kind of cut a lot of the newer games
and a lot of the older. I have been some a few 80s games
too and I kind of just focus it it.
I find it's really, I know you have like a a whole massive
community dedicated to like GW in the 90s, but on a wider
scale. I think it's a really
underappreciated in some respect era for games.
So I'm just sort of doing my own thing and just I'm just kind of
indulging and I just really, I really enjoy it.
Oh, that's good mate. I know you do because thanks to
you, we've got a nice Discord community that's been growing
and and flourishing with all these people coming in,
appreciating the same things we do.
So and sharing their story, sharing their progress and and
that kind of thing, which is awesome.
Yeah well I mean it's I I I'm not a huge active poster but I'm
I'm looking at the form every single day at the Discord and
I'm I'm just really impressed with what you've managed to
bring together. I think that's probably I was
reflecting back why why was I the first person on your in your
you know your podcast. I'm not a particularly important
person. I don't, I don't have Instagram
with like beautifully painted models or anything.
And I think honestly, I think it was just sort of it.
I was there at the right time. I saw when you were just
starting out, I think we met first on Facebook, if I recall
one of the Facebook groups and you were just starting, you're
still Studio Nine or something. Was it called?
Sections Yeah, Section 9 Studios.
That's right. 9 Studios and but you were just starting out like
kind of fan stuff and I was just so thrilled that somebody was
like digging into this because you know for years nobody was
interested in this stuff. I was like, I can't be the
older, it's not possible. I can't be anyone who loves this
stuff. And then you you're you came out
with like such like instantly high quality material content
discussion everything. And I think I must have been the
first person on the pod just because I happened to be there
right when it was starting and I was like I love this this is
this is terrific. This is exactly what's needed,
and nobody else really is doing it.
It's certainly not been and there's lots of people out there
now, but they're not. It's still like the the bar is
set so high now. So I I just immediately just was
really excited about this, Yeah. No, that's great mate.
Yeah it's it's it's really interesting it's it's really
nice to see how far it's progressed because some reason
during that time and I'm I was the same opinion like why the
hell is no one talking about this.
Because when you think about the exposure games worship had and
the growth it, it spread like it just spurted through that time
in the early 90s. And the company became this.
You know it was having you know it when you when you listen to
let Rick Priestley talk about it now and that kind of thing in
the history of of Games Workshop during that turbulent time when
Brian Ansel left the company and Tom Kirby came in and made the
company public. And you know, it just, it just
took on this new manifestation where they just had to produce
all this stuff in a very short amount of time and or under
immense time pressure and releasing all these products.
And what came out of that time was this immense amount of
creativity and innovation. Oh yeah.
Just, you know, a collective group of people that all just
all synchronized in their way of thinking or something.
Everything sort of just gelled together, the the the sculptors,
the artists, the the game designers, everything and it
produced you know, for what I think and I think you you share
obviously said share the same opinion that they they produce
the best stuff during that time, you know.
Those designers also think it was the best time if you ask
them, like, ask them their favorite editions.
Ask their them their favorite games.
Ask them the projects they're most proud of.
It's 95% of the time it goes back to the 90s.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a very special time.
And yeah, at that time, when I got back into this five years
ago, as I as I'd left it long, long, long, you know, way in the
past, I just didn't think anybody would be interested in
playing these games. But I came to the point where I
realized I'm not having fun playing the games I'm playing
now. They're very competitive set
mindset. And I wanted something that I
and I looked back and I thought, when did I really enjoy gaming?
And it was during the 90s. You know when you're rolling
those charts or the animosity, animosity table.
If you orch and goblins and you know you'd read all the
descriptive flavour text on the cards of the spells and and
you'd be just, you know those those memories of those
hilarious things happening during the games.
They brought the most amount of joy and and and that's why I
came back to it and thank thank gawk I did because not only is
it so much fun playing those games but painting in that style
just brought so much happiness to me.
More so than anything else that the modern stuff can do.
You know, it's it's the colors, it's the Goblin green bases.
It's the vibrancy, it's the freehand painting, those
freehand Shields painting those banners.
It's and then seeing that on the tabletop in in the, you know,
the Goblin Green pristine golf. Course type style battlefield.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Oh man, this is great. So yeah, I can't.
Yeah. I I appreciate that There are
like a lot of different painting styles now and I I don't want to
step on anybody's toes, but I'm I'm right there with you like
it. It needs to be Goblin Green for
me. And you know there there's a a
reason for those paint jobs too. They they existed because they
photographed beautifully. They were as a company of the
sole models sold. It wants to make the models as
addictive looking as possible and they chose these kind of
bright, highly saturated, highly pigmented paint schemes.
And because they show up perfectly in in photos and and
catalogs and things like that, a lot of the painting styles that
came after them and before that too, they're artistic in their
own way. But like they don't pop in the
same way because they're not designed to pop.
It's you know, they're they're meant to look gritty or they're
meant to look you know at some some other sort of style that
they're going for. But the aesthetic of of the 90s?
It's it's intimately linked with that like hyper commercialistic
company, but it it looks so damn good that you know, it was
designed to just explode on the tabletop.
Yep, now it looks like candy. Really.
Isn't it the the way they painted them in?
Is it? Something that look like added.
Eye eye candy. That's what it is and it and it
still looks good like that's that's the thing I can came to
realize. You know as gamers we get older.
I turned 40 this year. I I got my first pair of
glasses. My eyes are going to pot already
And yeah like you get older but these games do not get old like
you you break them open you you open up a white dwarf from back
then and it's exciting today as it was then.
These games have it. You can like feel the passion of
of the game designer in them as they're writing it, as they're
like coming up with these like crazy things that happened in
the game and you're reading it like oh, I can't wait till I
that happens on on my tabletop. They're these these games just
don't get old. They they are full of vibrancy
and they're full of energy and they're full of passion today.
Yep, absolutely, mate. Yeah, I I was thinking about
that today. Like, I haven't even scratched
the surface even four years into this.
I really haven't really scratched the surface on a lot
of things, you know, And that's that's the most encouraging
thing. There's so much more to unpack.
There's so much more to discover, There's more things to
find. You know, White Dwarf articles.
I could, I could just go through White White Dwarf articles for
years and years and years, content and stuff and wealth of
extra additional things you could add to your games and you
know, you could just forever. Yeah, the the, the amount of
stuff that was produced at that time was just unprecedented, you
know, compared to modern type of games now and companies now they
just do not produce on that scale or they don't have the
studios to to house that many people or that many staff or you
know, yeah. It it must have been hellacious
to make these games, but I'm so glad they went through that.
Like you hear you hear the the designers, like complaining
about their tight schedules and the crazy hours they had to
pull. And yeah, it's it's inhuman,
like the the amount of stuff they did.
But like it's produced basically this legacy that will last
beyond our lifetimes and and we'll build the rest of our life
with hobby material and and into the next generation, perhaps.
It's wild, really. Yeah mate yeah it's it's it's
it's it's a fascinating era and I think if when you talk about
you know when you talk to guys like you know Andy Chambers
Thomas Perrin and and you know Eddie Wood as well and recently
you know they've all got interesting perspectives on
their time against workshop some very memorable some they want to
forget. You know it's like when you're
in that industry it it changes your maybe your perspectives or
or but then they come back maybe later like Addie has and really
appreciated you know some of the games and some of the models and
starts collecting and painting and enjoying it again.
I think that's really nice. So they can then enjoy the
labours of, you know, what they created or what they were part
of at that time, you know, the. The interesting thing about that
is, I mean we've it's a kind of common refrain but it's true
like we're in the best time right now for this hobby right
now. Like it was thrilling to be
there when you were younger but you didn't have the money or the
time or anything else. When you were younger you didn't
have these half of you know this board of lead and you when
you're in that mindset you are are also just like buying up the
next game and the next version and and now 20 years later we
have the moment to to just stop and say no I'm just gonna do
this and I'm gonna explore it. I'm gonna explore this as long
as I and as I need to to really kind of feel it out and
understand this game and and get everything get everything out of
it. So we're we're at this point in
our lives where we're really only now getting all of the
advantage of these games out of these games.
Now that that we we're playing the kinds of games that we
couldn't really as kids because we didn't have the the time or
the models or whatever, or the understanding of the rules or
the time or like the ability to really kind of read through it
and get why it's brilliant. That's right.
Yep, I totally agree. But I I played more games of one
of my fantasy than I ever did in the 90s.
Most because most of the time I was painting and I was never,
never going to play with unpainted models.
So I just spent my entire time when I was, you know, 16/17/18
or whatever, painting models and never really getting to play.
But when I did get to play because I got completely smashed
because I didn't understand the rules very much.
The guys who was playing with were older than me, had more
money they could they could buy all the best stuff and then you
know we'd get together and and amass all our collections
together and and play and but then there's still my favorite
times. You know the the favorite times.
I loved it. I absolutely adored it so but
then I get to relive it again. Like you say you you're in the
best time now because now you're old.
You're wiser, hopefully richer. You've, you've got those
attained as models that you've always wanted and you're a
better painter and Betty Hobbit a better hobbyist.
And if you're really lucky you still have some friends who want
to entertain you and still playing those games, you know.
Yeah. So and luckily the community of
the Crown of Command and Discord Facebook and YouTube community
that my goal is to bring those guys together and you know, get
them reconnected. Get them playing again, you
know, or it you know. Just get them back into the
hobby somehow, with painting or making terrain or enjoying some
aspect of it and. I think, I think we're all.
I think we're all kind of waiting for a crown of Crown of
Command con. When we all get, when we all get
together wherever like. Oh, I love that, mate.
I love. That Tokyo or.
I think Japan. I think Japan has the potential.
I honestly do. It seems to be one of the
destinations that people always come here.
We are living like Japan. I'm not into Japanese geek
culture personally, but a lot of people who come here come for
the anime, come for the, you know, Akhabada experience, and
they want to go to the maid cafes or they want to go to the
mandrakes to get all their anime paraphernalia.
I don't know what it is, but you know, so, but yeah, I think I
think Japan's a great place to do something like that.
I have discussed it with people before.
It's just a logistical nightmare to do it and then you've got to
basically it's us requesting people to come here.
It's not like Europe where it's kind of well connected and
people just get a train or a bus so they can drive between
countries. It's kind of like you have to
fly all the way over here. So it's a beautiful concept.
I hope that I think realistically people could do it
like bring out your lead in the UK and just have a contingency
of people from the Crown of Command community wearing their
T-shirts and stuff like that. You know, wearing their kind of
command badge with honor and playing games, which they do
anyway. I know the guys do that, which
is great. I love seeing that and it looks
like the bedroom and Battlefields guys are getting
their getting their own sort of gaming days together now, which
is really nice to see. So yeah, in in any way, shape or
form, whatever community they're from, if they're getting
together and playing games and enjoying it, that's the main
thing in it. So yeah mate, but how about you
guys? Like, I know you like the last
time you talked about Hamilton, I don't know if you're still in
that area, but you had a games club there.
You're playing 5th edition with the guys there.
Are you still doing that? We're no, we're not no longer in
that area not too far. But let's see I was still I was
still in that area. We have a.
There's a large. War game club in in Hamilton.
Shout out to the HHGTSHTGS, sorry if anyone, if anyone's
listening from that group. They do a lot of different games
but it's probably half historical as I would say it's
kind of like a a traditional gaming club.
We we have a rented space we have lots of tables and breakup
models. So we someone generally brings
the entire game and then people play it and then the next time
someone else will bring the entire game including like all
the armies and stuff but they they do we did some Warhammer we
did some some I remember there's 40K there card games board games
things like that I we and and during COVID that kinda came to
an end. Obviously Canada had very like I
would say extreme lockdown. We are very, very strict And
then I moved after, like during that time I moved away during
the end of that period. So I haven't really done too
much with them since. Largely there are, there are
game stores in my area, but honestly I my, my kids keep me
busy. I've been playing a lot of games
with the kids and I honestly I'm really enjoying solo play as
well. I think I've talked about this
on the Discord that that's something I discovered during
COVID, and unfortunately, I really, really liked it.
It's bad for the community, I'm gonna say, lots of terrible
things that are kind of bad for the community.
But like, I really, I really do enjoy the ability to like,
design a kind of a narrative scenario and then take my time
with it. I have a space now where I can
actually leave stuff out and like, play one turn and then
walk away and come back in a couple days, that kind of thing.
I love that. It's just so, so convenient.
There's no, you know, send it all out, play the game, pack it
all up like all in one day is is just too manic for me now.
But yeah, so I mostly play. I like I could go out to like
the the local stores and stuff. I don't know I'm I'm not really
into that scene. I don't like, I don't like so
much going to the like FLGS as it's used to be called.
I prefer just playing with playing games with my kids,
honestly. And it's it's kind of
interesting. Anything.
I don't know how many of our listeners have like young
children, but anything you show a passion for they will dive
into, which is it's kind of wild and kind of like dangerous in a
way. Like I got, I got my kids into
like all sorts of, like, shenanigans that honestly they
should be probably doing other things.
Like they're really into Pokémon right now.
For example, 'cause I just happened to find my old copy of
Pokémon from when I was a kid. And they're really into, like my
son keeps asking me to paint up the Chaos Sorcerer for Warhammer
and things like that. So they're they're kind of
pushing me along and and kind of, in a way, sort of directing
my hobby, which is fine. I'm I'm enjoying that.
They're excited about it, you know.
Yeah, two very good hobgoblins, you know, prodding them.
Yeah, yeah, Continue on with the hobby.
You know, that's excellent. That's great, mate.
That's awesome. But yeah, solo gaming, there's
nothing wrong with that. That's great.
You know, there's a lot of people who do it and and solo
gaming, you know, obviously came to Providence with the whole
Pandemic thing. Yeah.
Was it Shadow? I'd never done it before that,
honestly. Yeah.
Me too. I've never done.
It very interesting, yeah. Yeah.
I've I've dabbled it a little bit with Test of Honor doing
that during COVID just because I had to play with and I was
really wanting to play it. So I just did it myself and then
my son joined me because he liked rolling the rolling the
dice and we had a good time I think yeah Warhammer or
something like that might be too complex.
We did with my son as what we did Battle Masters once but he
did his his attention span is not there yet to get into it.
He was still a little bit too young, I think if I, and, you
know, after yesterday visiting a friend of mine and his son, I
think maybe I'll bring it down. If we ever go, if we go to see
them again, I might ask Max if I can bring it down so the kids
can enjoy it, maybe try to play it.
Yeah, because I think they would enjoy it.
If if my son had another boy his own age, I think maybe he would
get into it more, you know, and older now.
And I think he might, he might and he'll.
And it's all in Japanese too. The whole rulebook's in
Japanese, everything's Japanese so.
Oh, wow. OK, you'd.
Probably get into it, but yeah, I think those kind of games are
really fun. Solo, solo gaming is a thing and
I think it's it's it's a really nice little pastime.
Like you say, you could just sort of I I did it to test out
rules too, you know, for games, like I had a board game here and
I thought like I was going to, I'm going to play through the
turn sequence. And I did it for other things
like Warhammer going through maneuvers and not really playing
a game, but just sort of just doing it solo so I could test
things or whatever, you know? House rules and things like
that, yeah. Yeah, house rules.
Just things that I found too complicated.
And I thought, OK, that's it, I'm going to sit down here.
I'm going to work it out. I'm going to get some models,
put them on the table and, you know, do something with them
and, you know, try to figure out this thing, you know, and it's
sort of it. Because I'm a very practical
learner. I don't like, I can't.
If I learn something out of a book, I find it very hard to
stick it in my head. If I see, if I see it visually,
if I if I'm doing it, then I can learn it very quick, a lot
quicker, you know so. With with to get back to that
point with about kids I have. I have.
I think I mentioned this also in this group I have kind of bad
memories of Battle Masters as a kid but mostly because my my
brother was was ruthless with the with the Canon.
But I I find what what really gets my kids excited about a
game and it's when it's not actually that surprising.
When I think about it, one they they love the catalogs, they
love the the color photos and the rule books and stuff, 'cause
that really instantly tells them like a little story.
And like Warhammer's great for that because all the photos,
they weren't just like of troops standing in the back with a
backdrop. They there was some sort of
conflict going on. There was some sort of setting
some story and then when you play to sort of like let the let
them catch on to the narrative of it.
My my son, for example, he's really into orcs and goblins.
He's his favorite army book and it the thing that kind of hooked
him on. It was I would just kept telling
him all the different silly units and all the crazy things
they do and a table you roll on for the giant and it can, you
know, pick up a guy and stuff him down his pants and like it
just he was howling, he was like crying, laughing.
And that's that age, right? It's just my my son just turned
70s you know quite immature and stuff like that.
But he he just really connected to the the way that these games
kind of tell stories I think. And then when he plays he looks
for that he wants the crazy stuff to happen.
He wants the whole thing to unravel in the most disastrous
way possible and that's that's what he he likes.
So it it's and and Warhammer and Orcs and gobs especially.
It's a complicated army because it has so many special rules.
So but I would I wouldn't necessarily say game complexity
is a problem. I think what may put off kids is
is when it's they don't know why they're doing something or they
don't expect anything fun around the corner.
You know they're they're they he doesn't necessarily know all the
rules or anything. It really doesn't.
He just knows that he has to wait till this point to move his
models has wait to this point to roll the dice.
But he knows, like, there is something kind of wild and wacky
around the cornea and loves that that's kind of what Hoax said.
Yeah, yeah, that's nice mate. That's that's great that you're
sort of slowly introducing the the, you know, this this classic
game that you played when you were very young to your kids.
It's really nice. It's lovely.
And that they're interested in it because obviously visually
they're hooked, you know, they always, that's good.
And then you know, the rule sort of, you know, feeds them on a
little bit saying oh, the giant can stuff someone down their
pants or they can eat them, you know, or you can you can pull
over and you got a little script plate.
That's that's. Beautifully illicit.
Oh, they love that town play. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's wonderful. Yeah, yeah.
Like you said, Auchman goblins are.
I love Auchman goblins. I was.
I was fascinated with them and I used to sit on the bus on the
way home from high school. Just looking at those Knight
Goblin models is thinking, wow, these are just the greatest
things ever, you know? And just mesmerized because of
their cartoonish look to them, you know?
Right, Yeah. Because I loved, I loved Jim
Henson's. You know, The Muppets and, you
know, Sesame Street, all that kind of stuff.
They sort of. They gave me the same kind of
feeling, that sort of warm, fuzzy feeling.
These little cute little goblins running around in their little
hoods with their red colored wooden clubs and all this kind
of stuff, little red booties on. And you know, they're they're
supposed to be this horribly menacing, you know, evil force
in the old world. But it's they're really not.
They're dislike little naughty children, you know.
Yeah. What did Brian say on the
discord the other day? If they ain't smiling, I ain't
buying. Yeah, I love that quote.
I love. Yeah.
If they ain't smiling, I ain't buying.
I think that's a that's because yeah, unfortunately what came
late later after Kev left Kev Adams left that that the their
visual visual direction just totally put me off orcs and
gobbles forever. But but that's another thing.
That's another aesthetical thing that people love and some people
don't. So it's you know or they like
both if they're very lucky. But there's certain charms about
the old models that just weren't replicated, I don't think in the
in the later editions. But then again, that's just my
personal, personal point of view.
Yeah, I think honestly it comes down to what you grew up with.
And I, you know, I think kids who grew up in the early 2000s,
they should be excited about like 40K third edition that had
those kind of Brian Nelson, is that it?
Who sculpted them? That style of work And the, you
know, the kids who are guys who are a little younger than me,
they should be into 6th or even 7th or 8th edition.
There's there's nothing wrong with that.
You should be into like what you grew up with.
That's natural. It's it's just gonna be
different for different people. It's all so this is, this is our
thing. I'm a little younger than you, I
think, but not much. 10 years, young man, you you're very
young. Yeah, don't worry about your
eyesight. But yeah, so like, I I fondly
remember all the games I grew up with.
And look, they're all around me now, You know?
It's like, yeah. Yeah, that's wonderful.
Yeah. I think and I found that often
too, that younger people got into, you know, who are curious
about this era because if something's good, it's always
going to be good. You know what I mean?
It looks good. It's always going to look good.
If it's something plays good, it's always going to play good.
And if it's if it's not very good, well, it's always going to
be not very good. So I think people are just
attracted to, you know, things that you know a visual
interesting, have interesting mechanics and they they're.
Probably just curious. About how Warhammer was formed
and how it started and they sort of go back in time and you know
look at earlier editions or they they just love the models.
It's not not maybe not so much about the game.
Look at the male. Look at the may to order thing.
Now it's gone nuts. They're all over it now because
they all want them royal to giant.
They all want them them royal to wipe and they all want the stone
trolls and why wouldn't they? Because they are the best models
they ever made. You know there's beautiful
models. So yeah so I I can I can
understand their genuine interest in something like that.
And yeah when you make when you make things that are brilliant,
they're always going to be brilliant.
You know they're going to be timelessly brilliant.
So, but anyhow, Dave, we're going to go for a quick quick ad
break, make quick, quick ad break and when we come back
we're going to. Talk more about 90s games.
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And I hope to hear from you soon to start your dream project.
So we had a good, we had a good discussion about, yeah, your
your recent years of hobbing, modelling, solo gaming and
playing with your kids mate, what, what are your future
aspirations? What things are you sort of
hacking after? Are there any sort of, you know,
long lost models you want to acquire for your collection?
Or you know other projects you want to start working on or
painting or whatever? Yeah that's a great question.
I I think I actually don't want to be getting new models, I
don't mind trading but I've I kind of I haven't haven't gotten
really a new model. I got one new model a couple
years ago and before that it's been like a couple years before
that. So I I'm, I I have enough to
work through now. I think in terms of projects I I
really do want to start to dig into this kind of the the the
lead pile and paint up some I I, you know most of my stuff when I
was a kid I wasn't I guess I wasn't like you I played with
mostly unpainted models. So I definitely want to start to
get these projects, not necessarily finished, but like
dig into them enough that I can put on big battles with fully
painted armies and multiple different armies and there
there's a lot here to to chew through really.
Like I said, I've actually been winnowing my collection to focus
on the 90s because I think 90s games have not only just we
talked about like the aesthetic that they have, but they have
really their own spirit and energy and style and and theory
behind them. And you can see that across
different companies even. And I really want to explore
that. I think I shared like Battletech
for example on the Discord. Here's Heavy Gear.
Here's I got obviously the whole range of Games Workshop games
from the 90s, but there's also historical games like Command
Decision, which I I I have lots of Flames of War models I'm
gonna use for that. And yeah, there's just like a
lot, a lot of different sort of projects that want to actually
spend the time and paint them up and do them justice.
That's good, babe. That's great.
I'm. I'm glad to hear it.
Yeah. I mean, you know, there's
nothing. I suppose, you know, a lot of
people played, played with unpainted models back in the day
and maybe still do. In fact, I see I saw some
pictures of you playing unpainted models with your kids
recently. So what about what the evidence?
That was my son's fault. He got very excited.
He wanted to see all my models, so I broke them all out.
And then he's like, you know, he was picking which ones he wants
to be in the game. And they were like just random
stuff that was just in the in the drawers and stuff.
So yeah, that was not my ID. My, my son, my son is we.
I don't know if I gave the impression that I'm sort of
introducing him to the hobby. No, he's basically steering the
boat. I don't get.
I don't get much of A say. That's right.
I feel. I feel that mate, too.
Yeah, I'm. I'm a servant to my son too,
mate. I know all about it.
So. And what a what a lovely job
that is. What a privilege it is.
Yeah. You're a servant to your kids.
But yeah, yeah, we we did, we. I introduced Leo to a game as a
card game, Dungeon Mayhem. I don't know if you've heard of
it. It's it's a really fun, quick,
fast game with just with cards and it's made by Wizards of the
Coast. I think it's AD and D theme one,
but it's like a it's like a it's a kid.
It's it's more designed for kids I think.
But you know, looking at the art style and that kind of thing,
it's not, it's not very serious. It's it's sort of tongue in
cheek kind of thing. And each each player has a
particular hero and you'll have your own set of card cards and
you draw a certain number at randomly and basically you're
battling against the other players and trying to reduce
their wounds down to 0. And the person who remains,
who's the last player alive, here's the winner.
And I I introduced my wife to that as well.
And everyone who plays it really enjoys it and that's, I think
that's the that's the power of games.
It can't be. You can cross divide between
people who are not interested in sort of the the geekiness of
miniatures or this kind of stuff, but trying to, you know,
build that bridge between that and something else that could be
really entertaining. They are enjoying some kind of
geek culture without even knowing it and not realizing it,
but they're still enjoying that, that, that, that moment.
But yeah, it's it's, it's interesting looking at certain
game design mechanics and how And I sort of relate that back
to one of the fantasy 4th edition.
Especially because the guys who wrote those games obviously
built in those crazy things, those crazy rules, so that we
would be like laughing hilariously over or hysterically
over the tabletop. They weren't designed to be
serious war games. They were never designed to be
like that. They were never designed to be
competitive war games. They were designed to be sort of
like a sandpit. OK, these are sort of the, you
know, the the base the basis of the rules.
But if you want to expand it or change it or whatever to make it
more fun or more enjoyable, you know, just go for it, you know.
And I think that's the and when when you when you find a really
good game where people have a lot of people sort of connect to
it, I think they've just got the right ingredients.
And I think fantasy had that as well.
Won the fantasy for sure, yeah. I remember Andy Chambers said in
the interview. It might have been on Film
Deck's YouTube channel. I if anyone hasn't seen that, I
highly recommend this young guy who's making doing interviews of
all the old Games Workshop heads and I believe he did the
interview with Andy C. And he was saying something
along the lines of we we don't particularly care about the
rules and the the rules, you know doing this or that.
We we care about the results. We care about the the narrative
that emerges that the game it needs to like tell a story and
it needs to like get you somewhere and it's I I think
that's that's a lot of the the difference you see in in games
today where there is quite quite enormous rule books and a a lot
of attention to to that sort of stuff.
But the the older games they they tell they tell stories and
they get people excited without you having to like fight over
you know what the rules mean and stuff that's not the that's not
the spirit of those games. If you do that, you're like, I
don't, I don't wanna say anyone's doing Hobby
incorrectly, but that really they they're not.
They're not good at that sort of critical attention.
Yeah, it's really that that very much is the kind of the power of
these games. It's the ability to like access
the imagination, even if someone's not a gamer per SE,
and get them to sort of have fun and relax and and see see why
it's ridiculous and funny and and fun.
And one, one of the things that you introduced to me that I had
never tried before until we spoke in that interview, I think
was the idea of drafting magic items.
Oh yeah, yeah. Fantasy.
And then I listened to our podcast, the one we did, the
very first one, and I thought and I noticed, and I noticed you
said that you sort of got that idea or gleaned that idea from
Rick Priestley's article, I think in issue. 222 White Dwarf
222. Went and sort of readdressed the
5th edition magic items and that kind of thing and and did our
under rater on those and had that idea of just you know
dishing out or dealing out random cards to your champions
heroes and that kind of thing and magicians and then you know
just dealing with that. And I think that's a that's a
that has been revolutionary for us, like in terms of enjoyment,
we've loved those games, we've we've, we've drafted, you know?
Well, I was listening What? It wasn't the last interview
with the with the D bad. Oh, you can't, Fury, yeah.
Can't Fury and D bad and and that just brilliant
conversation. But the he kind of came to the
conclusion that if you take out magic items supporting a War
Gear, they're called, right. If you take out the War Gear,
it's a very different game and everything works brilliantly.
And the problem is, when you bring War Gear in, it's it's
kind of similar in Warhammer in that the magic items can be, and
especially when you put them in certain combinations, can be
insanely powerful. But there's something sad about
taking that out of the game. Why?
Why not just break the ability to put them into kind of nasty
combinations and just, you know it's kind of hilarious if a
goblin champion has you know a near what, you know a techless
sword or whatever that's that can be a hilarious game that you
know it's you wouldn't ever put that item on that character.
But yeah, yeah. It's nice.
It's nice to play around within the within the sort of or
breaking the boundaries, or going beyond the boundaries or
breaking the rules a little bit. Just for those kind of really
rare crazy moments that again form these memorable instances
where you do see something like that just really out of the
ordinary. Yeah, and I I think the the key
to really having fun with the game is the key.
The key to having fun with any game is to play so your opponent
has fun. It's to to play, to just
entertain each other instead of trying to like necessarily beat
the socks off them or something like that.
But there's there's something that happens when you're when
you're drafting magic items or or any kind of house rule like
that, where you're just plain to see what happens.
You know you're not. You can't really have a grand
strategy. You can't really have this,
like, crazy combo in mind, 'cause you can't rely on
anything. It's just you're watching what
terrible, horrible things happen to your cute little grinning
goblins, and it's funny, yeah. And Dave, what What's your
favorite game of the 90s? I know you have a few there.
What's your favorite you think? That's hard.
Well my all time favorite game is is Epic 40K third edition
right Which is an unpopular choice.
I was actually just on bringing Battle War.
Great War game had a a live chat today.
I'm gonna shout out to them and I was on their their chat at
room talking to them and they hate they hate 40K third epic
40K third edition which is a common sentiment but to me like
that's that's the single best game Games Workshop has ever
made from starting to finish. So I I I'm kind of an extremist
like that but I I think second up would probably be Warhammer
Fantasy. It's it's the game I really
focused on when I was young. I mean I played 40K second
edition as well but I played with other people's models.
I played Necromonda as well but I played with you know I didn't
have you could none none of us could afford to have two
different game systems going. So I I only had my own models
for Warhammer Fantasy. So it was really like my main
squeeze so to speak. So that probably be be second.
I think it's if you prune it and if you kind of come at it with
the aim to just have fun with it.
I think it's a extremely well built game, well designed and it
just hits all the right notes and it doesn't have a lot of
flats. It's it's just such it it when
you're playing it, it just kinda, it hums.
It's such a well designed game. After that it's it's really a
toss up. There's so many systems I have
now and that I had experience with back then.
And yeah, it's it's, it's hard. It's a hard.
It'd be a hard list to write, honestly.
Yeah, yeah, I think. I think for all of us, the same
mate, I think. I know, I know you did express
your love for Epic 40. Ki have not played it and I will
reserve judgement after having played it.
I do want to give it a go, even though I know it's not second
edition. I do want to give it a go
because I know that maybe in its heart it, you know, Andy wrote a
really good game system and I think there are certain things
about it that do interest me. I think there's mission cards in
this one in epic 40K and I saw the saw some guys I think in
Australia or New Zealand playing through the first scenario and
they really loved it too. And I and it looked quite
interesting. So yeah, I'd like to give it a
go and see what was like. I trust you, Dave.
If you say it's the best game, it must be good.
There must be something good in there.
I I think what Epic for Decay 3rd edition suffered from is it
wasn't hugely well supported. It had about 3 battle reports of
like Dwarf and had maybe six or seven issues where it had some
kind of content, but it wasn't around for very long and so the
number of people that actually played it then is, is
vanishingly small. Like we're we're a small
community and the number of people that were playing second
edition which lasted for a much longer span of time, it had a
lot more exposure and a lot more support.
That community was much bigger and they saw Epic as this like
very short lived death of their game And so a lot of the people
that hate it they didn't play it and and to be to be fair like
that's that's fine because they they saw it as sort of like the
death of their version of the game and that was probably
pretty bitter. But I didn't have that
experience. I didn't.
I was certainly playing game like war games and things like
that. When Epic second Edition Space
Marine it's called called Space Marine was around but I didn't
play Space Marine. I just didn't have any contact
with that. I I kind of got in with Epic.
I didn't. I think I played in the store.
There was a it was a again, I I didn't have my own models at
that time, but I really enjoyed it and I my eyes got glued to
the white dwarf issues that I still have them actually I have
yeah. I have one of them right now
that I was reading today that has a a an epic battle.
Like in the the back of the the back of the issue has epic on it
as well. So that was the one that got me
excited and I just think we're a small community.
Honestly just it wasn't a long lasting game but it is brilliant
and I think I could be wrong. I seem to remember that Andy
Chambers thought it was the best version.
I forget if I I'm a little unsure about that.
Maybe you can ask him for me, but I'm pretty sure he did say
that. Yeah, yeah.
I think, I think Andy would agree.
He wrote it. So of course he's going to say
it's. Oh yeah, of course.
Yeah. But yeah, no, I'm sure, I'm sure
it's. I'm sure there's a great game in
there. I just need to discover it and
try that for myself and play it and then give my own kind of,
you know, my own feelings and thoughts on it.
Because I love the scale. I love Epic Second Edition for
that, for that same reason. And yeah, I know Andy loved Epic
Space Brain. He he adored it.
First edition, second edition. So he would have had the best
intentions to make that game as good as it could be.
So, but yeah, OK. Right.
It's it's it's one of those games that just really naturally
tells amazing stories. And I think that's that's kind
of the hallmark of that era of GW.
So to me, it's kind of pinnacle golden age for me, yeah?
And have you had the kids play Talisman at all, mate recently?
Oh my God. More than any other game.
I've probably played over 100. I can't, I can't speculate how
much over 100, but over 100 games of Talisman.
So they they got into that years ago.
It was one of the first ones they got into and we've played
it ever since, like dozens of times a year.
They love that game. We haven't played it super
recently since coming to the new house.
I think that's just because there's some stuff that's still
quite packed away. But the moment I I have that
maybe I've been sort of dragging my feet to break it out again,
'cause good God, I think I've enjoyed that game.
But like of all the games I want to explore, I think I've
explored Talisman and all. They they love that game.
Oh, that's not, Yeah. We we we have the.
I think it must be the 3rd edition.
It's the one. It's the one that came in the
thin red box with the dragon tower.
We have the Dragon Tower. Oh, you got that?
Wow, man. Yeah.
Yeah, I know, I, I, I you know, I collected a lot of this stuff
ages ago, 'cause I thought one day I'm gonna want it, I'm gonna
want to have this. And I guess that that's true.
Yeah, that's excellent. Yeah.
Again, another game that has really fun, you know, not so
complicated mechanics. And I had my mum playing it, you
know, I, you know, just people, just random people just playing
it, you know? And it's one of those games that
just breaches that kind of, you know, you're you're not in
geekdom, but you are playing a geeky game.
You know, you're playing a fantasy game, but you don't
really notice it so much. You're just having fun because
it's all just random, you know, it's just all this random stuff.
And yeah, yeah, I still got my second edition copy and I played
it with some kids at school when I was teaching there and they
really enjoyed it as well. So it's one of those games that
breaches all ages, all backgrounds.
I love that kind of thing, you know, it's gets people excited
and enjoying gaming, you know, without being so heavily
invested in it. And that's the other topic is
that we're in a very unique hobby because we are still
collecting painting miniatures that spanning 30 years, like 3
decades, and we're still doing it and we're still enjoying it.
That's something that I don't think a lot of other hobbies can
really say that much. There's certainly old older
models out there as models from the 80s, Grenadier and stuff,
and I I don't know of any community that is this active in
finding those models, painting those models and playing those
games. I think Games Workshop did
something kind of kind of special.
They were one of those, the probably the first company that
really came out with models and rules and everything in one
package. But yeah, they they hit a
formula that I yeah, I I can't think of another example.
Yeah. Yeah, it's really interesting.
Because I was thinking yesterday, because I was
painting up my goblins, ork and goblins stuff, touching them up.
And I'm thinking you know I bought these orcs in 1996 in
Sydney Games Workshop you know and here I am now still not
happy with them. Still painting Shields on them.
Still touching up their flesh tones still, you know, you know
it's it's it's one of those things where you're so invested
in it it's it just goes on and on it just, you know it just
never runs out. There's there's never a a point
in Warhammer especially that you know you just feel you've you've
accomplished everything. It's it's a very special kind of
hobby I think we've got. Good good bang for your buck.
Absolutely, Absolutely, mate. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. Well, Dave, look, thank you so
much again for coming back on. I really appreciate it.
And it's been great to reconnect with you visually and audially
to and see you there in your new home with all your your new set
up and everything, which is great.
I hope that we can go over that white dwarf you're holding up
before. What issue was that, that white
dwarf? This is 2/11.
All right, mate. Well, so if you feel, if you
feel up to it, let's go through that together on my first white
dwarf, even if absolutely is it your first white dwarf?
This is not my first, but it's a lovely issue.
Right. OK, well, that's it.
Your favorite first white dwarf or favorite white dwarf?
And it's got loads loads of epic that actually is a good segue.
Great. OK, well, that's that.
Game We need to go through Mate 211.
That sounds like a date buddy for you.
Enjoy your your hobby weekend with your kids and your family
and all the best to you. All right.
Thanks so much. No problem mate.
See you next time.