1
00:00:02,760 --> 00:00:05,160
Hello, everybody, and welcome 
back to the Chronic Command 

2
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,240
Podcast. 
This is Josh, your host. 

3
00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:12,520
And today marks a very special 
time in the podcast history as 

4
00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:18,600
we have just reached 100,000 
plays as in downloads and I hope

5
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,600
listens. 
So it's remarkable to discover 

6
00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,840
that on Friday afternoon as I 
was preparing a bachelor's meal 

7
00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,200
and beer, to watch some movies 
that night as I was home alone, 

8
00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,760
and then to have that notified 
on my phone was really a another

9
00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,120
crowning achievement for the 
crown of a man. 

10
00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:44,480
So thank you so much to all of 
our guests that have been part 

11
00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:48,800
of this community project now 
for four years, and especially 

12
00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,080
to all the collaborations I've 
made with people who have made 

13
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,560
their own content or gone ahead 
and interviewed other people for

14
00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,280
your listening pleasure. 
So thanks everyone who's been 

15
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,400
part of the Credit Card Podcast 
and long may it continue. 

16
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,000
So talking about collaborators, 
we've got Matthias and Dave back

17
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,600
again for Part 2. 
I thought I'd release this one a

18
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:16,400
little bit earlier for you guys 
and keep it to a Sunday schedule

19
00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,000
if possible. 
So every Sunday, well, that's my

20
00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:22,760
Sunday. 
It's probably going to be your 

21
00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,160
Saturday evening, depending on 
where you are in the world, but 

22
00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,800
just so that you have something 
to listen to over the weekend 

23
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,000
rather through midweek. 
So I hope you enjoy the second 

24
00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,760
part of our Empire Wahama Army's
deep dive. 

25
00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,160
And the guys are now working on 
the high off book and we also 

26
00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,920
have Owen Staton's wonderful 
deep dive series as well. 

27
00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,680
The next one will be the Dark 
Elves, which you can now listen 

28
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:53,040
for free. 
Any free member or paid member 

29
00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,080
on Patreon can access that audio
right now. 

30
00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:01,120
So I wanted to gift everyone 
given that it's 100,000 plays 

31
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,040
and we've reached another little
milestone that click the link 

32
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,280
below in the show note 
description here for the Patreon

33
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,080
and you can go and listen to 
that right now. 

34
00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:15,080
And that'll be the next podcast 
released for the Chronic 

35
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,160
Command. 
So thanks again to Owen, another

36
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,160
wonderful collaborator. 
And, and I really enjoy 

37
00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,360
listening to his voice. 
His commanding voice, I should 

38
00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:31,040
say, has he's the, he's kind of 
the, the, what do you want to 

39
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:32,920
call it? 
What do I call him? 

40
00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:37,880
The chronicler of the old world,
like this old man, like Gandalf 

41
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,680
wandering the old world's grey 
mountains. 

42
00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:46,240
And he tells and recites these 
stories, times past and heroes 

43
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,600
that once lived amongst these 
lands. 

44
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,280
So thanks again Owen for that 
mate. 

45
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,960
I really appreciate it. 
And people on Patron are 

46
00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,200
enjoying that now, but they'll 
be out for next week. 

47
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,000
So without further ado, let's 
get on with our Empire deep 

48
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:07,240
dive. 
And as you can have done that. 

49
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,520
Yep. 
And I think they do deserve a 

50
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,240
better faith than simply dying 
to fanatics. 

51
00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,200
They definitely have the uses, 
you know, disrupting and picking

52
00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,880
on war machines. 
So you know. 

53
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,480
I used them, but I say recently,
it was probably a year ago now, 

54
00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,400
but I used them with a champion 
in their unit against orcs and 

55
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,200
gollies. 
And there's a in Chronicles of 

56
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,000
War, there's a 5 point magic 
boat. 

57
00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:42,240
OK, that doesn't seem that 
brilliant, you know, But what it

58
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,520
allows you to do is it gives you
plus one to hit. 

59
00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,240
Yeah, which is quite handy, 
Yeah, from a shot. 

60
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:52,000
But also it allows you to fire 
before the movement fights if 

61
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,360
you want to with that model. 
So in actual fact, it's it's 

62
00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:01,520
not, is it plus one to hit? 
It's not a -. 1 to hit because 

63
00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:03,760
you because you'll find before 
you move. 

64
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,600
So you don't get that -1 for 
movement, for on, on your shot. 

65
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,800
So in effect, it's a +2 to hit. 
OK, still in one short, it's at 

66
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,960
Strength 3, but for five points,
I think that's quite a quite a 

67
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,680
handy little item for for for 
any bow on champion, Yeah. 

68
00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,400
And as you say, it's magic, so 
you can exactly also. 

69
00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,000
Wounds things like demon. 
Well, you've got, you've got a 

70
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,520
Rolton wound, but in in essence,
it can do damage to like a demon

71
00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,760
or, or or a race or ghosts or 
anything like that. 

72
00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,800
It's a magic shot. 
Yeah, nice little item. 

73
00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:45,200
I don't have all the Chronicles 
of War items so I I think I'm 

74
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:46,480
looking. 
For them, I think he gave 

75
00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,200
promotion time. 
I think someone, I think it 

76
00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:52,120
might have been me or Josh, 
uploaded them to the file 

77
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,400
section of. 
The publishing group. 

78
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,200
So so you can get them there. 
Yeah, but I need. 

79
00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,600
The actual We want the actual 
files, and they're so hard to 

80
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,840
come by. 
Oh yeah, probably. 

81
00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:06,480
It is probably the rarest thing 
from 4th you're going to get. 

82
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,040
Yeah. 
And I mean, I would have liked 

83
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,040
the entire box, but I mean 
that's going to cost. 

84
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,240
I don't know what it's not going
to be cheap if you want. 

85
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:16,800
It's going to be a lot, yeah, 
yeah. 

86
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,560
I think years ago you could have
probably picked up. 

87
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,400
It's still been expensive 
because they're rare, but not 

88
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,600
today's price. 
Today's prices is going to mean 

89
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,400
it's it's ridiculously 
expensive. 

90
00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,640
I was very lucky and brought it 
at the time so. 

91
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,880
I don't think you, yeah, I think
it's going to start at, you 

92
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,240
know, 100. 
At least, Yeah, I agree. 

93
00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,880
Yeah. 
And there's, you know, for a 

94
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:43,040
handful of magic items, they're 
very, some cases a little bit 

95
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:44,960
overpowered, maybe some of them.
Yeah. 

96
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,520
There's things like a potion, a 
good one for champions, 

97
00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:50,000
actually. 
There's a potion of battle in 

98
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,840
there, right? 
It's a 15 point item, but you 

99
00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:55,800
get D6 extra attacks. 
Oh yeah, yeah. 

100
00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,240
But if you get 7 attacks or more
you collapse after the fight. 

101
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,920
So that's why it's good for a 
champion. 

102
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,560
But maybe not. 
And and champion was something 

103
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:10,360
like a unit of halberdiers or a 
unit of spear armed cavalry. 

104
00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,400
So I often give it to a goblin 
boss in Wolf Boys because it's 

105
00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:18,560
they got the plus one to 
strength along with the that 

106
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,440
attack. 
So I think it's useful for a 

107
00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,680
champion, the last player. 
So yeah, kind of like the the 

108
00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,400
bow there, there are little 
items there, low cost items that

109
00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:28,680
are quite, quite nice to give to
people. 

110
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,800
And I think a halberdier 
champion probably would benefit 

111
00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,000
from that as well. 
Whether it's very empire potion 

112
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,440
of battle is another matter. 
Yeah, maybe not. 

113
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,400
Yeah, not. 
As an option. 

114
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,360
But yeah, cool is that is that 
horse arch as we've done now 

115
00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,320
then? 
Yep, and then we have the 

116
00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,840
shining stars, the Empire. 
Infantry from the Empire, Yeah, 

117
00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,520
They could have one unit. 
Flatulence. 

118
00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,440
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

119
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,840
Not about the weapon skill. 
They've not got the weapon 

120
00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:04,760
skill. 
You can't take a champion in 

121
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,840
there. 
No, but. 

122
00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,000
They're they're brilliant. 
Yeah. 

123
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,120
I mean, there's really no 
compromised to be had either. 

124
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,200
I mean, they're OK, They don't 
have the Western skill, but 

125
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:20,360
that's not a big deal, you know,
Western skill 3 is OK. 

126
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,160
I mean, you still hit most 
stuff, so do you know? 

127
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,000
Actually, think about, actually,
I don't think there's anything 

128
00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,120
that says they can't have a 
champion, but they often not 

129
00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,240
have friends. 
Yeah, but maybe you make him a 

130
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,760
warrior priest so he doesn't 
have spells. 

131
00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,800
Yeah, but he's just a a champion
in there. 

132
00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,280
Normal, normal stats for a 
champion. 

133
00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,560
He's not got the friend. 
They don't have friends. 

134
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,520
No, they don't. 
No, they're not unbreakable. 

135
00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,840
So he would be breakable though.
That's the only issue. 

136
00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,400
So bit like the undead, you know
where where characters don't 

137
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,920
necessarily have the unbreakable
rule or they can be broken. 

138
00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,000
A champion in for agents 
possibly run away, but at least 

139
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,840
the play agents would stay there
and he'd get away. 

140
00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,520
Yeah, but I mean the the only 
reason, OK, maybe you want some 

141
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,440
modern nice models to show off, 
but the only reason to include a

142
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,080
champion in a flood unit would 
be to bring some sort of magic 

143
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,440
item I suppose. 
Because otherwise I mean a 

144
00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,400
champion won't bring any hitting
powers to unit. 

145
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,400
No, he might. 
He might bring that whole 

146
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,880
survivability thing with a 
flying creature charging them 

147
00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:24,960
though. 
A matter of on a flying 

148
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,440
creature, he issues the 
challenge, takes all of the OR 

149
00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,600
any other characters charging 
him for that matter. 

150
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,280
But you know, it's more 
pronounced with a flying hero 

151
00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,280
or, or or character. 
But yeah, he can take those 

152
00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,360
hits. 
You know there's no overkill so 

153
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,440
you can only do 1 wound. 
Yeah, but I mean, if you, if you

154
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,120
have a big unit of ladinance, 
say 20, they care about it. 

155
00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,600
Yeah. 
No, unless it's some sort of 

156
00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:55,960
ridiculous friendship corn Lord 
or something used to soak them 

157
00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:56,680
in. 
Yeah. 

158
00:08:56,680 --> 00:08:59,040
Yeah, or dragon rider or 
something like that. 

159
00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,800
Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. 
But that that's kind of it just 

160
00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:02,920
lit. 
I've never done it. 

161
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,320
It's never occurred to me before
now it's just Oh no, they don't 

162
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,520
get a champion. 
And I've thought about it with 

163
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:15,000
plague monks for as well. 
There's no plague monk champion.

164
00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:19,080
If you want a character that is 
frenzied to go in there, it's 

165
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,560
got to be a play priest. 
Yeah, it can't be. 

166
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:23,840
AI think there should be kind of
a household. 

167
00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,160
Maybe you can take the frenzied 
blade and for a champion, sorry,

168
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:32,960
they get that frenzy and then 
you know, because typically I 

169
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,200
think it says that the character
can't lead a unit. 

170
00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,760
But I think if the unit is 
frenzied, I don't see an issue 

171
00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,400
with taking the frenzy blade for
a for a champion for a unit that

172
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:44,280
has frenzy to emulate that 
special rule for them. 

173
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,080
Yeah, but but either way, I mean
flatulence, they don't need a 

174
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,320
boost really as they. 
No they don't. 

175
00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,360
They are pretty cool. 2 attacks,
toughness for and on the turn 

176
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:55,760
they charge. 
Well they probably don't charge 

177
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,920
that often. 
They get obviously the strength 

178
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,400
bonus of the flail. 
Yeah, but I I think they get the

179
00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:03,960
strength bonus first round 
either way. 

180
00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:05,480
You know they. 
Are charged, so yeah. 

181
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,680
Oh, OK All right. 
Yeah, yes, they would. 

182
00:10:08,680 --> 00:10:10,000
Yeah. 
It just says yeah, it doesn't 

183
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,200
say chart. 
Yeah, no, you're right. 

184
00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,560
Absolutely. 
So yeah, they're, they are 

185
00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:16,320
pretty useful. 
Obviously protracted fights, 

186
00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,600
it's more becomes a nutritional 
fight because they they they're 

187
00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,160
not running away, they don't get
the strength bonus. 

188
00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:24,920
But I mean, that's a capital 
base anyway. 

189
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,720
Yeah. 
And they they're always going to

190
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,320
have the two attacks. 
So I mean, yeah, even in these 

191
00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,880
subsequent terms, they're going 
to be superior to any other 

192
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:33,480
infantry choice, so. 
Yeah. 

193
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,120
And for 10 points, that's, 
that's a very healthy stat line.

194
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,360
Yeah, it's, you know, Slayers 
don't have a stat line that 

195
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,480
good. 
Now they've got an. 

196
00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:43,880
Extra point of weapon skilled 
dwarf slaves and they have the 

197
00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:48,160
Slayer rule about the strength 
thing, but the actual base stats

198
00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,160
for the points 10 points, the 
model that's that's pretty good.

199
00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:54,760
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean it's, I think it has 

200
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,760
found the the best infantry unit
if you go and look at just, you 

201
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,600
know, what you get for the 
points, they're quite excellent.

202
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:06,360
So yeah, yes, I agree totally. 
And I almost always used them 

203
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,120
because they were good. 
I think they were never featured

204
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,920
in a white dwarf batter report 
during 4th or 5th. 

205
00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,080
No, they weren't. 
Well, they weren't. 

206
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:20,360
They weren't part of that 
Citadel range of models. 

207
00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:26,360
They were Marauder and they 
weren't, you know, if they use, 

208
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:28,840
I don't think they use Wrights 
Guard foot either at any point. 

209
00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,000
But if they use Wrights Guard 
foot, I'm pretty sure it'd just 

210
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,080
been the Citadel. 
Yeah, and I, I think the only 

211
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,440
one I I know they used something
they it was the that sort of 

212
00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,920
hybrid, the 3rd, 4th battle 
where it was the vampire versus 

213
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,280
Moodle something. 
Yeah, but even that was just 

214
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,000
using the latest models as well,
except though I think the Wizard

215
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,280
was an older one. 
Not by that's it wasn't that 

216
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,880
much older, but they didn't use 
any of the Marauder stuff in 

217
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,640
that battle. 
No, maybe they used it in one of

218
00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,560
the mega battles they did. 
The really big ones, possibly. 

219
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,560
Yeah, Gathering of Might. 
They certainly used Wright's 

220
00:12:03,560 --> 00:12:05,600
Godfoot in that. 
Whether they did much I can't 

221
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,400
remember, but but typically, no,
they didn't use them. 

222
00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,600
But yeah, the models were 
beautiful. 

223
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,440
Some hate them. 
They are loving all load them 

224
00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,520
model those flagellants that 
were around at that time because

225
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,080
they do have humongous. 
They also like Hobbit feet. 

226
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,360
A bit. 
I didn't used to like them a 

227
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,440
lot, but now I do and I'm 
thinking about remaking or 

228
00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,680
repainting that unit. 
Actually, they're a bit aged by 

229
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:36,080
now, so we'll see. 
Lovely unit. 

230
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,080
Lovely. 
Weirdly in in thirds you could 

231
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:43,400
only take up to 16. 
At most you have two years and 

232
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:44,400
eight was the maximum you could 
have. 

233
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,880
I mean they did have frenzy in 
that and frenzy in 3rd is 

234
00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,960
different to frenzy in. 4th 
Frenzy in 3rd. 

235
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,600
Gives you kind of pluses to hit,
pluses to your save, all sorts. 

236
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,720
It's a frenzy is is the most 
powerful psychological effect 

237
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,480
you can get in 3rd. 
In fourth, it's just it can be a

238
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,440
liability. 
But flashes don't have frenzy. 

239
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,280
But the point is that in 3rd 
they did and I said you could 

240
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,880
only have two units of eight and
that was the, it wasn't even you

241
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,760
could take 5/8. 
It was just they came in blocks 

242
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,640
of eight. 
That was it in bird. 

243
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:25,200
So you know that you couldn't do
what you do in three and 4th 

244
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,040
where you'd have one big ranked 
up unit. 

245
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,000
You couldn't do that. 
You know, the most you were 

246
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:33,000
going to get was 1 + 1 for rank 
bonus with with the UFA agents 

247
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,680
there. 
So they were kind of more of a 

248
00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:36,200
speed bump unit. 
OK. 

249
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,840
They were nasty to fight and 
they would do a lot of damage. 

250
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:44,560
But they were. 
Yeah, they weren't, they didn't 

251
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:48,360
have huge survivability beyond 
maybe one or two turns. 

252
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,240
Whereas Flagrance, you know, you
could have Flagrance in in, in 

253
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,840
fourth charged in the first term
by some magical means. 

254
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:56,880
And they're possibly still going
to be fighting come the end of 

255
00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:02,480
the battle, you know, in that 
same combat, maybe, you know, So

256
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:09,080
it's yeah, they're they are. 
They are definitely the best 

257
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:14,640
equipped unit in in 4th edition 
the Empire list anyway for for 

258
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:17,480
combat. 
Yep, Yep. 

259
00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:23,440
And then we have the dwarfs. 
So what's your point on that? 

260
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,120
Is it I? 
Don't simply use them. 

261
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,240
To be honest with you, the the 
whole not being able to have a 

262
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,000
champion is kind of a bugbear. 
Well, not be able to have a 

263
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:33,240
dwarf champion, this kind of 
bugbear. 

264
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,640
I know in friendly games you can
just, you know, you preview you.

265
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,120
Yeah, I don't think anyone would
be terrible. 

266
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,120
There are some people out there 
I think would be, but anyone 

267
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,720
that I would normally play, no, 
I don't think they would have an

268
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,200
issue with. 
It I mean you're obviously have 

269
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:49,280
to agree on it, but I imagine 
most people would be OK to maybe

270
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:50,840
not all. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

271
00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,600
But do you know what those white
knight have you? 

272
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:55,080
Have you? 
You must have seen like what? 

273
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,240
I think they're available from 
the assault group now, but 

274
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,040
there's there's some really nice
Renaissance style dwarfs. 

275
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,840
But what it might do that, you 
know, spear men or Pike men, 

276
00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,640
spear men, Pike men, crossbow 
men. 

277
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:15,320
That's I'm not sure about. 
OK, it's it gives a different 

278
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:16,520
model. 
But if I'm going to be arming my

279
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,960
dwarfs for crossbows, I might as
well arm humans for crossbows 

280
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:20,920
because yes, they have exploited
toughness. 

281
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,280
But again, if you're, if you're,
if our troops are in combat, 

282
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,600
something's gone wrong. 
Yeah, yeah. 

283
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,080
But the leadership is. 
Oh yeah, yeah, it's true. 

284
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:29,720
Yeah, Actually, yeah. 
No, you're right. 

285
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,040
Yeah, it does add to the 
leadership as well. 

286
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,000
And obviously if they do it in 
combat, they've also got the 

287
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,560
point of weapon skill as well. 
But generally speaking, you 

288
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,640
know, it's cheaper to have a 
unit of human cross women than a

289
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,080
than a dwarf cross wing. 
But from an aesthetic point of 

290
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,040
view, from an actual looking at 
the point of view, there's an 

291
00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:45,800
argument for including dwarf 
crossbow men there. 

292
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:48,000
And can they have handguns? 
No, they can't. 

293
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:49,600
That's something else. 
They should give them the option

294
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,000
for handguns as well. 
So they can be either. 

295
00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,600
I think just to reiterate that 
fact, they are empires dwarfs, 

296
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,960
not normal dwarfs, if that makes
sense. 

297
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,240
Yeah, Yeah. 
So maybe they're mercenaries. 

298
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,480
I don't know, but they are. 
But, you know, they are, you 

299
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,400
know, emperors. 
So having a handgun as an option

300
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,520
for a standard dwarf I think 
should be should be there. 

301
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,520
I think that's missing that 
should be there and possibly 

302
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,440
even great weapons as well. 
You know, double handed swords, 

303
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,440
because that's the other thing. 
There's some really nice Zvi 

304
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,040
handler models in that range 
from white knight that are with 

305
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,000
that. 
I said that with tag now or the 

306
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,280
assault group. 
There's some really nice double 

307
00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:29,160
handed sword armed dwarfs that 
you know with big puffy sleeves 

308
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,480
and big feathery hats. 
That. 

309
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:32,800
They would be brilliant in 
there. 

310
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,360
They'd be absolutely awesome in 
there. 

311
00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,640
So yeah, I think, I think the 
options are limited there for 

312
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:43,200
the dwarfs to make them a 100% 
definite include unit. 

313
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,120
Yeah. 
For me anyway, other people 

314
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,680
swear by them because they would
argue they're better than 

315
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,360
flagellants in the sense if you 
can have more units of them and 

316
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,000
there are more options there, 
you know you can Spears to. 

317
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,760
Also, Spears are really nasty, 
you know, because if you add the

318
00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:59,760
toughness of the high weapons 
skills and high leadership, 

319
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,600
Spears just add, you know, for a
unit that's either attritional 

320
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,640
or going to get charged anyway, 
Spears really useful. 

321
00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:10,680
But yeah, I think they could 
have more options in there. 

322
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,720
Yeah, personally and 
theoretically you can make 

323
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,880
empire army with only dwarfs. 
Yeah, but no. 

324
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,040
Yeah, but no dwarf general. 
No, the general, yeah. 

325
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,839
You need a human general to keep
in line, yeah. 

326
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,359
Yes you can, absolutely. 
You could easily make empire 

327
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,240
army with the dwarfs and then 
have human characters like 

328
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,920
Wizards and all that. 
So you could do not Lord you 

329
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:38,440
could do The Hobbit with an 
empire army that you can't do 

330
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,320
unless you use allies with the 
dwarf list, Yeah. 

331
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,240
I never used them back in the 
days. 

332
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,960
I think maybe because there was 
wolf play in the group that felt

333
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:49,640
a bit dirty, so we didn't do 
that. 

334
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,520
But yeah, I I definitely could 
do today. 

335
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:57,120
I have some dwarf units. 
Yeah, the idea. 

336
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,120
Of making I quite like the idea 
of actually doing rather than 

337
00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:04,520
having them in the army that 
way, but actually having dwarf 

338
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:10,440
allies, but using, you know, the
the puffin slash dwarfs as dwarf

339
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,560
allies may and seeing them more 
as a mercenary force. 

340
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,200
And then you can have the 
handguns and you can have 

341
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,000
cannons as well. 
So you're increasing the number 

342
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,640
of cannons. 
That's a bit dirty, but you but 

343
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,120
you can Max out your war 
machines and then still have 

344
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,120
cannon from allies. 
But you could do that with any 

345
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,000
army. 
You know, that's not something 

346
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,920
that's to Empire, but I think it
would actually be quite fitting 

347
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,400
to have like the great cannon 
alongside them, the more 

348
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,680
expensive but worse dwarf 
cannons. 

349
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,840
You know that that classic dwarf
cannon from from late 3rd early 

350
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,920
for with the with the puffin 
slash type crew. 

351
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,800
You know that alongside them, 
but in but as a mercury force. 

352
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,200
Yeah, now that that's often 
appealed. 

353
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,200
And I almost did that this last 
year where I've been doing the 

354
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,880
empire army that I've painted 
up. 

355
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,640
I almost did some dwarfs and I 
started painting them and I 

356
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,320
wasn't happy with the paint job 
and, and, and so I'll come back 

357
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,160
to them and just never, never 
got back to them. 

358
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,760
I will do it at some point. 
I will paint that. 

359
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,600
I'll paint up a mercenary. 
Dwarf was used in 3rd because 

360
00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,440
thirds are really weird in that 
they include a dwarf ally list 

361
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:19,040
in the army's book, but don't 
say anyone can use there. 

362
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,200
There's a section of which 
allies you can take and none of 

363
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,680
them have dwarfs. 
They've got a dwarf ally. 

364
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,320
No one can take them, but they 
do have, they have. 

365
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,080
They make a separation between 
allies and mercenaries. 

366
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,240
There's separate rules for a 
mercenary contingent to an ally 

367
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,720
contingent. 
Because there's really sorry. 

368
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,680
You could, yeah. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

369
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,440
Well, in theory you could, but 
no one can take dwarves. 

370
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:44,160
I, I, I think probably Britannia
and an empire are a fair shout 

371
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,040
to take them. 
But it just doesn't say in the, 

372
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,040
in the brawls, but, but also 
with mercenaries, you can, the 

373
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,680
opponent can bribe them as well.
Part of the rules allows you to 

374
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,880
set aside a certain amount of 
your points and you can use that

375
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,840
to bribe them. 
And then they might switch sides

376
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,280
or just go home, stop fighting 
and go home. 

377
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,160
So that's quite nice. 
But but what I'm getting at is 

378
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,280
is for that contingent, I might 
pay up. 

379
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,320
They could either be allies in 
fourth or a mercenary contingent

380
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,000
in in in 3rd. 
And I quite like that idea of 

381
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,800
having a a state troop kind of 
style small army of dwarfs. 

382
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,040
So I'll probably do at salt. 
I don't know when, Lord knows 

383
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:23,880
when, but at some point I'm 
going to get round to that and 

384
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,280
that'll probably be the white 
knight models. 

385
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,080
So. 
I'm looking for did you did you 

386
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,680
guys ever use allies in your 
battles or? 

387
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,840
Sometimes, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And dwarfs were sometimes the 

388
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,840
hours we used. 
Well, we, we didn't have that 

389
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,040
many dwarf models when we were 
doing it. 

390
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,560
So what my brother did was 
Marauder used to advertise their

391
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:45,760
miniatures a lot more in more 
dwarf than Citadel did. 

392
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,400
OK obviously most articles were 
were adverts, let's be honest in

393
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:56,360
White Dwarf, but there were 
actual glossy pages of dwarfs at

394
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,960
almost exact scale to a 
miniature. 

395
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,240
So what I'd rather do is he 
stuck cards behind the photos, 

396
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,680
cut them out and stuck them onto
bases, onto cardboard bases. 

397
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,840
And we used those as our dwarfs 
for a while. 

398
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:15,080
Alright, Very inventive it was, 
Yeah, but it it worked it we and

399
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:20,040
we had lovely heavy metal 
painted dwarfs in our if you're 

400
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,960
just looking straight on, you 
didn't look above or to the 

401
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,640
side. 
We didn't see the 3D dwarfs in 

402
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,480
our army. 
That's a good idea. 

403
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,360
So yeah, we used allies in a few
times, but mostly, no, we, we, 

404
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,200
we didn't do allies that much. 
It was I, I think again, they're

405
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,360
kind of in the right kind of 
game. 

406
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:44,160
If there's a narrative to it, it
works most of the time. 

407
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,080
People tend to use it to get 
around the failure of the OR the

408
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,160
chaos. 
Army or something? 

409
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,920
Yeah. 
Or although in to some respects,

410
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,960
I don't mind arterial in the 
chaos army because I think they 

411
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,920
would have it. 
Certainly I think there there is

412
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,920
a narrative reason why they 
would have have arterial as a 

413
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,560
bit Darf taking it out or any 
missile troops full stop. 

414
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,000
But things like, you know, maybe
a gold wizard in a dwarf army, 

415
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,240
maybe a gold, I'm saying gold 
wizard because you could imagine

416
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,640
him being a mercenary. 
Also another wizard, right? 

417
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:19,480
And I think that fits a 
narrative. 

418
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:21,960
But you're definitely doing it 
to get a wizard into a dwarf 

419
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:22,880
army. 
Yeah. 

420
00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:25,600
You know, that's, that's why 
you're doing it. 

421
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,160
So yeah, I don't know. 
Allies I'm not against, but I 

422
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:31,840
think it the context has to be 
right. 

423
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,400
Yeah. 
And I think you, you sort of had

424
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,480
to agree in the group sort of to
make it proper. 

425
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:43,800
Yeah, yeah, we we very seldom 
use them, but you could add a 

426
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,040
bit of flavour, definitely. 
And you could try out, you know,

427
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:49,840
some models from or units from 
another range. 

428
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,840
This one. 
Absolutely cool. 

429
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:54,880
Good stuff. 
Yeah. 

430
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:59,800
And then we have the uniquely 
Empire halflinks. 

431
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,120
Yeah, I love them, still do. 
You say that I think in the 

432
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,600
white book Platonian could have 
halflinks. 

433
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,680
Oh, maybe they could, yeah. 
I think you have. 

434
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,400
You got the avenue there at 
hand, I think. 

435
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,680
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I mean the yeah, I mean the the 

436
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,840
the point as well. 
Playing out the Tonio and and 

437
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,240
the Empire is in 3rd edition, 
there wasn't a huge amount to 

438
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,720
choose between the pair of them.
They were pretty much the same 

439
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:27,960
army. 
Slightly weirdly in the in 3rd 

440
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:29,600
edition. 
Brutonia could have more canons 

441
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,560
than an Empire, I think. 
I think Brutonia could have four

442
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,920
and an Empire could have three. 
I think I might have got that 

443
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,280
round the wrong way. 
I might be remembering 

444
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,080
incorrectly. 
But I think that weird dichotomy

445
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:39,840
that you'd expect empire to have
more. 

446
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,080
So yeah, that's that's kind of a
weird one. 

447
00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,880
But yes, they could have 
halflings in the White Book. 

448
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,840
And obviously the White Book was
the only official Brutonian list

449
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,200
until 5th Yeah. 
But yeah, I mean, the the the 

450
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,600
models that were available were 
were definitely Empire 

451
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,880
halflings. 
Yeah, because they had Puffin 

452
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:00,840
Slash and. 
Yeah. 

453
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,680
And I mean obviously for 
Halflinks they their thing was 

454
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:12,720
to have both that you put we 
were using less hand to hand. 

455
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,640
Yeah, they weren't good at it. 
Cheap cannon for that. 

456
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,040
In that sense, yeah. 
They're your slaves or your 

457
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:24,240
goblins. 
Yeah, they're obviously. 

458
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,320
Leadership, actually. 
Leadership is OK, but obviously 

459
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,440
not only do they have the 
strength of two, they have a 

460
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,920
toughness of two, so that's not 
great. 

461
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,360
Oh yeah, no, they're not 
brilliant. 

462
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,880
They are. 
They are a speed bump. 

463
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,360
Yeah, and weapons give too. 
Even so, I think they are I had 

464
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:49,120
maybe the weakest choice in the 
game or it's not links. 

465
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:50,560
Yeah. 
Yeah, slaves are better. 

466
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,480
Slaves are better than 
halflings, for sure. 

467
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,880
OK, not as good leadership, but 
you know, but what does in 

468
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,920
escape an army? 
But yeah, and they're better 

469
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,920
than they're. 
Yeah, goblins are probably 

470
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,960
better than that. 
Again, they beat goblins on the 

471
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,760
leadership, but goblins have a 
toughness and strength of three.

472
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,520
Yeah, that's huge. 
So yeah, Halflings are the worst

473
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,800
close combat unit in that sense,
but they are cheap. 

474
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,120
So there's an argument they're 
better than other things because

475
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:20,400
you can get so many more of 
them. 

476
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,160
But they mean around a combat. 
Around a combat, let's be 

477
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,960
honest. 
And I think apart from adding 

478
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,280
the models this, you might as 
well just give them a bow 

479
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:33,720
because it's not going to cost 
you a lot and they're going to 

480
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,160
be a lot better, so. 
Yeah, and the vesicular 4 

481
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,280
certainly worthwhile. 
They're they're elite bow Yeah, 

482
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:43,360
yes, there's no minus to save, 
but shooting at the right 

483
00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:46,280
targets and enough of them 
firing and you can get loads of 

484
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:47,680
them for the price cost they 
are. 

485
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:52,160
You. 
Know they they are a very good 

486
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,640
missile unit probably if we've 
already got cross within in the 

487
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,360
army. 
Would there be a toss up? 

488
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:01,520
Do I take halflings or do I take
handgunners? 

489
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,320
Handgunners are very specific in
that they can get rid of arm if 

490
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,760
you've got a low armour enemy 
facing you. 

491
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:13,240
And and Orson goblin is kind of 
they're they're not, they're not

492
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,720
high armour, but they are. 
But they are high toughness and 

493
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,400
maybe not the best against Orton
goblins. 

494
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,160
But if you're facing Skaven with
only light armour and shield 

495
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,400
majority of the army, I think 
halflings are fantastic for 

496
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,760
fighting Skaven that kind of 
army or another human army. 

497
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:32,800
Like like if you're fighting 
Britonian something like that 

498
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:37,600
where it's just basic toughness 
is 3 armour isn't getting huge. 

499
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,480
They're worthwhile If you're 
mainly facing goblins as well, 

500
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,920
they're probably really useful 
against them. 

501
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,640
Yeah, and I mean, if they die, 
it's not a huge thing because 

502
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,680
they're sheeps, yeah. 
Or I did, I suppose, because 

503
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,680
because of that higher 
leadership, I mean, fear is an 

504
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,560
issue. 
Most things are Toughness 3 in 

505
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,040
the undead army, Yeah, I guess 
probably against undead. 

506
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,920
Zombie's another one in that 
category, isn't it? 

507
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,280
Zombies are pretty useless. 
But of course there are. 

508
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,520
They're they're more uses. 
They they cause fear, but 

509
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,440
they're dirt cheap. 
Their equipment's cheap. 

510
00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:17,480
But yeah, halflings. 
Yeah, hard to argue. 

511
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,440
The worst close combat unit in 
the game, but not the worst. 

512
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,000
Shooting it. 
Not the worst, that's all. 

513
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,040
Yeah. 
So yeah, I'm looking forward to 

514
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,000
using that. 
Well, I'm just painting. 

515
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,360
I'm just about to paint some up 
now. 

516
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:30,960
I'm going to, I'm going to use, 
I just painted some beast men 

517
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,640
recently, some Nergal beast men,
and I used speed paints on them 

518
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:38,880
kind of for the first time. 
So I'm paint, speed paint, and 

519
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,480
I'm going to do my halflings 
with speed. 

520
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,920
I'm going to experiment using 
speed paint. 

521
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,840
My brother swears by them. 
I've used them a couple of times

522
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,600
on various. 
I did some painting with my son 

523
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,280
of some squigs. 
He saw squigs and adored squigs 

524
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,440
as you wanted to paint some 
squigs. 

525
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,680
So I've got some speed paints to
try and make things a bit easier

526
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,800
for painting them. 
Didn't really work on those. 

527
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,320
I did. 
I tried to do a xenophil 

528
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,360
highlight and the speed paint 
just melted the white paint off 

529
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:05,080
the model. 
So he's ended up being black 

530
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,120
with speed paint on it and black
with speed on it. 

531
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,040
Doesn't really show much so it 
doesn't really do well, but I'm 

532
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,280
going to. 
But I've done a white undercoat 

533
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,000
on halflings I I normally just 
swear by a black undercoat on 

534
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:19,040
almost everything or a coloured 
primer from from army paint. 

535
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,200
I love the coloured primers from
army painting for speeding up my

536
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,120
painting, but this time it's 
done white. 

537
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,840
We're experiment with with speed
paints on my halflings. 

538
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,680
I've done my halflings done this
month for part of empire month. 

539
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,280
That sounds really bad actually 
saying it out loud. 

540
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,480
The empire month. 
The Empire month, that sounds a 

541
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,440
bit better. 
Very imperialistic. 

542
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,880
No, the Empire. 
I'm not home to have them as my 

543
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,280
by the end of the month, they'll
be ready to go and and show off.

544
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,480
And then I've got a unit of 
Halflings, 50. 

545
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,680
I've ended up with a unit of 15 
somehow, which. 

546
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,840
Which is a weird number for 
missile troops. 

547
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,240
Yeah, I think it's not an even 
number. 

548
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,560
Yeah, I think I have 24 or 
something, so yeah. 

549
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:57,960
Good number. 
That's a good number. 

550
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:05,800
Yeah, Yep, 11 and the the final 
regiments are the ogres. 

551
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,640
Yeah, so the big boys. 
Yeah, but a unit? 

552
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,200
Of ten of them painted up, I've 
got Foundry Miniatures. 

553
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,440
The they've got a sideline 
Foundry Miniatures, McConnell, 

554
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:23,240
what they're called, but it's a 
fantasy sideline they've got and

555
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,920
they've got what they call great
orcs slash ogres in that. 

556
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,440
And they're very Tudor in style.
Very well, not very true, sorry.

557
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,000
Very Renaissance style. 
OK. 

558
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,240
They have Wooden Crosses on 
them. 

559
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,920
So you have to kind of ignore 
those, which are kind of those 

560
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,160
are really fit into the 
Warhammer world. 

561
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,080
But the models themselves, I 
love them. 

562
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,720
They're they're and they're 
perfect. 

563
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,360
That is, they're puffy sleeves. 
Some of them, some of them have 

564
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:48,880
got top hats, which is a bit 
weird. 

565
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,080
But yeah, I don't mind that. 
It's just a weird ogre. 

566
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,800
They're they're not the most 
they just have weird, you know, 

567
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,920
fashion choices, but no double 
handed weapons. 

568
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,440
Ogres, yeah, should have enough 
toughness. 

569
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,800
Toughness of five don't really 
need armour because of the 

570
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,760
toughness. 
So you know, being on with with 

571
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:10,880
double handed weapons, you know,
with a strength 4 up to six, 

572
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,240
they are meaty. 
They are beefy. 

573
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,480
They do need leaders though 
around them, not as in stay near

574
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,600
the general. 
Obviously they can't officially 

575
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,680
have champions or heroes or 
Lords, but again, you know, if 

576
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,720
you're doing the whole, you 
know, friendly gaming group then

577
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:30,840
there's no reason you shouldn't 
take them if you check with your

578
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:37,040
mates. 1st and I think in some 
later editions August do cause 

579
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,400
fear. 
I think they don't enforce them.

580
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,000
No, they don't know which yeah, 
I guess is a kind of a loss, but

581
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,720
also you got to think in terms 
of linear as well. 

582
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,920
We're doing, we're reviewing it 
after the event. 

583
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,800
They're reviewing it when we see
them in later editions. 

584
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,440
So if you're going linear though
and ogres in previous editions 

585
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:02,080
that caused fear, it wasn't a 
consideration for them causing 

586
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,960
fear in this edition. 
If you say I mean it was, it was

587
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:09,720
only because they later got. 
It but I guess that that makes 

588
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,600
the the comparably low 
leadership a bit worse in that 

589
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,360
sense if they would have had 
fear because I mean they can be 

590
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,720
scared by 5 skeletons so 
obviously they. 

591
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,360
Can. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

592
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,520
Obviously. 
Is there anything about 

593
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,080
outnumbering with fear in 
fourth? 

594
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,280
I can't remember off the top of 
my head. 

595
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,720
You break automatically if 
you're beat, yeah. 

596
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,160
What means there's no if there's
yeah, see that's the and also in

597
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,400
3rd there was something about 
height of the model as well. 

598
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,320
So it was fear you caused. 
If you were man sized, you 

599
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,200
didn't cause fear in things that
were bigger. 

600
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,440
Oh, OK. 
You only cause fear and there 

601
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,640
was some things did but they had
to have that specific rule. 

602
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,200
Fear plus whatever for, you 
know, fearing fury models, man 

603
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:56,840
size and fury models like that 
sort of thing. 

604
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,320
So ogres were fine in in 3rd 
because of that, because smaller

605
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,640
things didn't cause fear. 
You know, they wouldn't be 

606
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,360
scared of a unit of five 
skeletons, 5 zombies or 

607
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,120
whatever, you know, or even 
worse, a unit of five skeletal 

608
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,200
skeleton horses. 
You know, they wouldn't be 

609
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,240
scared of those. 
But yeah, in fourth there was 

610
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,160
that, which is why you got to 
keep your general quite close to

611
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,240
them really. 
Yeah, I like them. 

612
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:25,560
I think I like 20 painted up 
yeah yeah, I I don't think it's 

613
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,120
going to be a better practical 
to use more, but I have it's a 

614
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,400
mix yeah. 
Some I think 3rd edition, some 

615
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,680
of the I think technically 3rd 
edition, but the late 3rd 

616
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,800
edition the ones that they re 
released now for the oxen 

617
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:40,880
goblins. 
Do you know that? 

618
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:43,880
Those yeah, those were 4th. 
So those were. 

619
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,960
They were fourth, yeah. 
Yeah, there was certainly 4th 

620
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,120
and they were released probably 
round about the release of the 

621
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,160
dwarf book. 
Yeah, round about the same time 

622
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,160
that the wolf riders, those 
Portician wolf rides were 

623
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,760
released on, on the plastic 
wolves. 

624
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:00,760
They're at least round about the
same time as that. 

625
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,480
Yeah, and then I had some of the
goldfag, the 5th edition. 

626
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,360
And yeah. 
And some modern ones that are 

627
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,840
from a Spanish company. 
Mom, MOM miniatures. 

628
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,720
OK, you know. 
Yeah, I don't know them. 

629
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,640
No, you have to. 
You have to send me pictures. 

630
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,960
Right. 
You try yeah very fluffy sleeves

631
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:24,720
and stuff. 
So they're quite empty. 

632
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,960
They're huge though. 
So I mean, compared to 

633
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,280
especially the 3rd edition of 
Ogre that is sort of tiny and 

634
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:35,400
you have this modern 1 is like, 
yeah, absolutely massive. 

635
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,040
So. 
And there's, there's, there's 

636
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,800
those War games, Atlantic ones 
as well that intrigue me. 

637
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,240
I think they're probably fit 
with the late 5th edition, 6th 

638
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,240
edition plastics better, I 
think. 

639
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,960
But there I am tempted to buy a 
box of them. 

640
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,080
They're like £20 for about 8:00 
or so, I think. 

641
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,760
Yeah. 
So it's not, it's not bad value.

642
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,120
There's not bad value going on 
there because they're in the 

643
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:05,240
cost of models these days and 
they're definitely Renaissance 

644
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,120
in style. 
You know, they're lunch neck 

645
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,639
overs. 
So yeah, I might have a look at 

646
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:11,600
those two increasingly. 
And obviously, you know, we were

647
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,360
talking about the other day the,
you know, oh, I've got 12,000, 

648
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,639
you've got 17,000 worth of 
points. 

649
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,199
Ogres are a good way to build 
that up. 

650
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,880
Very expensive, so yeah. 10400 
points plus. 

651
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,920
Yeah. 
And there are a lot of choices, 

652
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,639
both modern and, you know, 
vintage models, they are quite, 

653
00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:31,760
absolutely different versus 
Yeah, nice. 

654
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,480
I like them. 
And I think, you know, in the 

655
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,520
game they are quite good. 
They add something to a bit of 

656
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,480
staying power and strength. 
So yeah, it's nice. 

657
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,520
All right. 
Should we? 

658
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,400
We're going on two hours now, 
but maybe, yeah. 

659
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,360
We'll, we'll. 
Maybe we need to we. 

660
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,520
We've kind of touched on special
characters already, really. 

661
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,639
There might be a couple of 
special mentions when we get 

662
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:57,600
there, but yeah, let's go. 
War machines then. 

663
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,920
Yeah, mortars. 
I've never had any luck with 

664
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:03,840
them. 
You know, but they kind of like 

665
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,760
a stone throw a bit stronger, 
aren't they? 

666
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:10,720
My, my big issue with them. 
I like the model, but it's a bit

667
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:14,040
pathetic. 
It's a bit small and pathetic 

668
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,840
looking. 
There is a later one. 

669
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,960
Obviously there's a later. 
One and the 5th finish one, 

670
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,240
yeah. 
Yeah, I'm not sure I like the 

671
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:25,840
model, but it doesn't look as 
pathetic as the as the tiny 

672
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:31,040
little late 3rd edition one. 
It's like that, you know, it's 

673
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,840
tiny. 
It's there's not a lot to it. 

674
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,680
Like I said before, we were 
quite literally in how the model

675
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,240
looked. 
So obviously that model didn't 

676
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,640
have wheels. 
So logic was you couldn't move 

677
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,120
that one. 
So I think that's, I think he 

678
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:48,720
could probably have picked it up
and carried it. 

679
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:50,320
He's. 
He's he's not big. 

680
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,040
They could yeah, between the 
three of them, they could have 

681
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,400
probably carried it, I reckon. 
Yeah, for sure. 

682
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,360
It's it's not yeah. 
I don't own any. 

683
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,240
I think my brother's got a 
couple and potentially might be 

684
00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:08,440
able to get some from from easy 
printing but but no, I don't own

685
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,480
any of them at the moment and. 
Yeah. 

686
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,840
I'm not, I'm not much of them. 
It's basically a stone thrower. 

687
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,400
Yeah. 
I mean, yeah, they are unique in

688
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:22,560
the sense that no one else has 
them. 

689
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:25,480
But as you say, the actual 
effect of them involved you've 

690
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:26,520
got. 
Any house force. 

691
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:28,560
Oh, yeah. 
Yeah. 

692
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:30,840
Water, yeah. 
Thank you. 

693
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,080
A huge mortar the other. 
See, that's an impressive 

694
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,080
mortar. 
It's you. 

695
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,960
Know it's a big old size but the
Empire 1 is just looks a bit 

696
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:41,960
silly and small. 
Don't get me wrong, it's 

697
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,440
probably more realistic and 
that's what Peris were going 

698
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,520
for, yeah, but in the grand 
scheme of things, it just looks 

699
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,920
a bit pathetic. 
Yeah, it's not really in line 

700
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,160
with the rest in that sense. 
The the 5th edition one, I'm 

701
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,480
getting it now. 
Actually, I have a, I bought it 

702
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,840
still waiting for it to arise. 
So yeah. 

703
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,880
And I think that's the, I 
wouldn't say rare in that sense,

704
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,480
but I don't think. 
It's rare in that no one 

705
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:07,720
probably was buying it at the 
time. 

706
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,800
Rare in that sense. 
Yeah, I I agree. 

707
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,280
It's and that's really does come
down to with a lot of the 

708
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,160
models, why things are rare and 
why they're not. 

709
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:16,960
You know, did you buy them as 
models? 

710
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,240
You. 
Know because any leftover stock 

711
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:23,200
Games Workshop would have just 
melted down if they couldn't 

712
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,920
sell them. 
They'd have melted it down and 

713
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,160
and turned it into another 
model. 

714
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,760
Yeah, so by late 5th edition, 
Empire wasn't the hot stuff, 

715
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,320
obviously, I think. 
No, it wasn't. 

716
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,760
No, it was very old army and and
needed a revamp. 

717
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,440
Which is again why probably they
were one of the flagships for 

718
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,400
for 6th edition coming out and 
why they got their plastics 

719
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,800
early on because nothing really 
appeared for them for a while. 

720
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,480
And yeah, they needed a bit of a
boost sales wise. 

721
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:53,120
Yeah, I mean, from early 4th 
until, you know, late 5th, the 

722
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,680
Empire didn't get much attention
at all. 

723
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,040
Model slice or rubes or anything
but. 

724
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:00,880
Obviously in army in in white 
dwarf they did. 

725
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,680
They were the remain stay of 
white dwarfs still and and 

726
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,280
people would have been inspired 
to buy them to trade an army 

727
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,600
then, but possibly not to 
collect the entire range. 

728
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,200
You know that they, they were 
probably just buying a few and 

729
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,800
then they're buying probably the
plastics, you know, and mortars.

730
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:18,920
No, I don't think people would 
generally buy mortars because 

731
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,840
you can get great great cannons 
and help blasters and they were 

732
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,120
a bit better. 
But I would like to get it sort 

733
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:28,800
of a perfect hit and just land 
that. 

734
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:29,680
Yeah, I don't. 
Blame you. 

735
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,000
Yeah, yeah, it. 
Would be nice. 

736
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:34,240
Absolutely. 
OK, onto cannons, you know? 

737
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,920
Must have I guess. 
My cannon, Yeah, in my book 

738
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,440
because I've got our fifth my 
our 4th edition book my brother 

739
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:43,800
took. 
I've got a 5th edition book. 

740
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:45,960
That I bought on eBay. 
I've managed to procure one of 

741
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,200
the fourth ish ones. 
So my book A great Canon is 95 

742
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,520
points, not 100. 
It's not a huge difference but 

743
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,400
you know, there is a slight, 
slight difference there so yeah.

744
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,240
So my great canons are 95 
whereas I bet yours are 100. 

745
00:38:58,720 --> 00:38:59,720
Yep. 
I own. 

746
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,200
I have two books, but they're 
both 4th edition. 

747
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:05,760
Yeah. 
I wonder what the reason was. 

748
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:11,240
I mean, I don't think Canons was
be underpowered, but maybe 

749
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:14,320
aligning with others and well, 
yeah, well, if you put. 

750
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,640
Them in line with a dwarf cat 
that's the main other user of a 

751
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,280
cannon yeah Dwarfs, Dwarf 
cannons were 110 points OK 

752
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,960
you've got 3 dwarfs with it not 
3 humans, but 110 points and 

753
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,840
they were only strength seven 
yeah and the D4, I think yeah. 

754
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,200
Whereas great cannons, less 
points, more effective, greater 

755
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,800
range, stronger, did more 
wounds. 

756
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,360
Yeah, but then. 
They know with the point. 

757
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,120
I suppose you could argue that's
one of the. 

758
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,760
Benefits of Empire, you know, 
there are few there other than, 

759
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,680
you know, the flexibility. 
That's that's one thing we 

760
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:46,920
should say. 
You know, the Empire army is a 

761
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,680
very flexible army. 
You know, you, you can play it 

762
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,080
in a number of different styles.
Nothing lends just OK, maybe 

763
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,360
your opponent lends to you doing
a bit of a gun line and sitting 

764
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,600
back with them. 
But but typically, you know, you

765
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,040
could do pretty much whatever 
you want. 

766
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,640
Vastly tactically flexible, but 
there are few. 

767
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,000
Strengths of an empire. 
I mean, they, they are vanilla, 

768
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,360
yeah. 
Empire really is your baseline 

769
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,120
for other books. 
Yeah. 

770
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,640
So great. 
Having cheaper cannons than 

771
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,240
other people. 
Maybe that's one of the benefits

772
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:19,200
there. 
And better cannons than other 

773
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,560
people as well. 
Yeah. 

774
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,480
Yeah. 
So I mean, it was a bit of a 

775
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:29,200
skill based choice because if 
you could mess it properly, that

776
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,880
was a huge benefit, obviously. 
And I mean, you're not sad if 

777
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:35,760
you haven't played in years. 
So OK, so how does this work? 

778
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,560
But you could definitely get 
good at it. 

779
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,480
So that would have been yeah. 
I mean, yeah. 

780
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,680
And even just knowing your 
board, sort of, you know, if you

781
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,440
play that you're familiar board.
Oh yeah, absolutely. 

782
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,560
And there was unscrewed. 
There's people that used to use 

783
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,160
their arms and they'd lean over 
and they'd know the length of 

784
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,880
their arms. 
Yeah, that sort of thing. 

785
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,760
Or or those that tried to fire 
crossbows or something first if 

786
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:01,880
you're like. 
That take that. 

787
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,720
Also takes the fun out of it 
you. 

788
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,080
Know the Spirit. 
Of the game and I mean they did 

789
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,280
make it well you had to fire 
your you know all your guest 

790
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,120
range weapons first which was a 
fantastic thing to bring in 

791
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,880
because it forced people to play
in the spirit of things but yeah

792
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,640
and now in the old world 
apparently you don't you can pre

793
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,720
measure and that's like well So 
what you do with a cannon 

794
00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:31,520
basically is guess a point you 
could say right say it say 

795
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,640
you're firing a unit or a 
monster yeah well obviously 

796
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,800
you're going to find a something
like that you can say right 10 

797
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,200
inches back from the back of the
base of the final model yeah and

798
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,200
then. 
You have been very unlucky. 

799
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,760
Not to hit in that case, yeah, 
because. 

800
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,480
Typically. 
An average role, you're going to

801
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,320
get 10, you know, on the two 
dice. 

802
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:53,560
As long as you're not rolling 
misfires, obviously, then you'll

803
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,800
get 10, No 6 on 1/4 on the 
other. 

804
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,520
That would be your average 
because obviously five and five 

805
00:41:58,520 --> 00:41:59,560
are the two averages. 
Yeah. 

806
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,800
So you OK, misfire skews that a 
little bit, but it's roughly 10 

807
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,480
inches is the average. 
So you can pretty much guarantee

808
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,360
a hit almost. 
You have to be very unlikely to 

809
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,000
get a hit. 
Which is. 

810
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:14,320
Which is even more precise if 
you're not, if you're not as 

811
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,680
precise as third edition or I 
said, you don't even need to you

812
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,120
know, guess or measure or 
anything like that. 

813
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:19,400
You just shoot it along 
trajectory. 

814
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,880
But it, you know, 4th. 
And 4th through to 8th, I guess,

815
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,240
Yeah, cannons were yes, you 
could be really good, especially

816
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:31,520
if you're using the army week in
week out, or you know, it was 

817
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,120
your regular army, you could get
really good with them. 

818
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,680
But yeah, there was still an 
element of guessing and you had 

819
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:36,880
to have a bit of luck on your 
side. 

820
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,520
But I I think in 8th edition. 
They had that rule. 

821
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:40,600
You could. 
Did they? 

822
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,760
Oh, I can't remember. 
OK. 

823
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:44,480
All right. 
I don't. 

824
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,200
I just think that's taking it 
too far of it being too easy. 

825
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,120
Yeah. 
No, I I like the guest parts. 

826
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,040
You know, it's a bit fun. 
Yeah. 

827
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,680
Flavoursome. 
Yep. 

828
00:42:56,720 --> 00:42:59,680
Right. 
And then the behemoth, the steam

829
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,680
tank. 
The steam tank, the. 

830
00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,080
Points to move and stuff like 
that yeah yeah yeah and it. 

831
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:11,440
I think some people have, you 
know, noted that it does break 

832
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,480
if you rules it's a bit 
unwieldy. 

833
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:16,240
Yeah. 
Yeah, you can. 

834
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:18,200
Just place it in. 
Front of the unit and it's going

835
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,640
to stay there forever and and 
you can have up to 8 of. 

836
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,160
Them as well. 
So yeah, yeah, some people. 

837
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,440
May say oh. 
Only 8, but no 8's quite a lot. 

838
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,920
If you're playing a 3000 point 
game, 8 is a lot. 

839
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:35,720
Yeah, and obviously you. 
Can't have it 25. .25% say 750 

840
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:38,320
points, You're going to get 
three at most. 

841
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:39,640
Yeah. 
Which anyone? 

842
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,560
That's probably anyone that's 
got more than one in a game is 

843
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,360
probably not really things. 
If if. 

844
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,760
You start playing about. 3000. 
Points that's probably going a 

845
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,880
bit far it's like the it's like 
the person that includes like 5 

846
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,280
joints in their armies they're 
all some goblins you know yeah 

847
00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:00,160
probably pushing it a little bit
with gamesmanship there if 

848
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,320
you're including that many one I
think that's fine I think it's 

849
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,640
fine actually reach the unit to 
break those rules normally yeah 

850
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,080
and if. 
There is a random element they 

851
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,000
can't break down on their own, 
so exactly. 

852
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:17,200
You don't even need your 
opponent to destroy it, you can 

853
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,360
destroy yourself quite easily. 
Honestly, I think that's quite 

854
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,320
often. 
The case because it is very 

855
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:26,160
difficult to destroy, it has 
Windows 10 and most spells 

856
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:29,200
doesn't work at all exactly 
against it. 

857
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,200
So yeah, it's it is a beast, 
but. 

858
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,200
Also, you can kind of stay away 
from it. 

859
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,360
It's not fast by any stretch of 
the imagination as as a as a 

860
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,760
model, yes, OK, it's got the 
cannon that can misfire quite 

861
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,280
regularly. 
Generally speaking, you can stay

862
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,720
away from it. 
So I don't I don't think it's 

863
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:49,600
that breaking. 
Yeah, it's for what it is. 

864
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,120
It does break quite a few at all
of the game. 

865
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:56,400
Yes, relatively cheap for what 
you get for your points, but it 

866
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,760
is a gamble. 
If you include it as an Empire 

867
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:01,440
general, you are. 
Gambling on that steam tank 

868
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,640
doing. 
I think it became even better in

869
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,800
later editions, but in this 
edition it is pretty ropey and 

870
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,720
one of the reasons it probably 
breaks some of the rules is that

871
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,320
I think again, bit like some of 
the other things in the Empire 

872
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:17,120
army, it pretty much uses 3rd 
edition rules rather than 

873
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:18,640
fourth. 
There's no difference between 

874
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,040
the two editions, but it is 
based on, you know, the end of 

875
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,840
3rd edition when they were doing
the you know, the the article in

876
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,120
the Warhammer in in Warhammer 
army's empire for the steam tank

877
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,560
is literally just taken from 
White Dwarf and plopped into you

878
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,120
know, and that was a third 
edition White Dwarf yes with. 

879
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,200
4th in mind. 
But it's a third edition, right 

880
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:46,120
Dwarf, so you know the the but 
you know a people need to be 

881
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,480
able unless you're using 
cardboard pieces, you need to 

882
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,880
own a steam tank, which not 
everyone does Yeah, OK, they. 

883
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,840
Might be using a modern. 
Model and and actually I think 

884
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,800
if you're using the modern 
model, it probably breaks even 

885
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,080
more rules because it's a lot 
bigger model yeah whereas the 

886
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:06,360
original steam tank ain't OK yes
it's a lot bigger than a castle,

887
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,520
but it's not it's not the size 
of the plastic one that came 

888
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,920
later it's quite a headache but 
it's. 

889
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:14,440
Yeah. 
Oh yeah, it's another one. 

890
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:15,560
You Chuck it. 
At some when you're breaking 

891
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:19,440
their head, but but you know, 
you've got problems. 

892
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,120
You Chuck it at some, but you 
know, it's it's base size isn't 

893
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:28,200
it's not 5 inventory models 
wide. 

894
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:32,480
I don't think it's probably like
3-4 at most, you know, so, so 

895
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:38,360
it's not in its original form, 
it's probably not as deadly as 

896
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,920
it potentially could be. 
Yeah, but it's great fun. 

897
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:43,520
Running over the wall. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

898
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:44,560
Oh yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

899
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,640
Get to it. 
Yeah, That's the only thing to 

900
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:48,080
do with it. 
It's something, something 

901
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,240
cannon. 
Who needs that? 

902
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:50,280
Just run over. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

903
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:56,160
No, I think yeah, it's it's not 
bad in any means in a way, but 

904
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,640
not game breaking either. 
Right. 

905
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,440
Then we have the the war wagon 
or wagons. 

906
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,000
You can have any any number 
though, so you're not limited 

907
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,040
TO8I my, probably my. 
Opinion of War Wagons have 

908
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,000
changed. 
I I originally thought they were

909
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,160
silly. 
I think in when I when I was 

910
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:14,920
playing the game Risha, I 
thought they were a bit silly. 

911
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:17,760
But now I think they're just 
kind of a characterful model. 

912
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:20,320
Yeah, and that's reason. 
Enough to include it. 

913
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,640
Yeah, OK, It's a pain in the 
arse to work it all out. 

914
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,040
All the different rules. 
It's got fit like a. 

915
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,280
Steam Tank in that sense, 
although. 

916
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,760
Wall wagon's probably even more 
complicated and not not for 

917
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,040
movement. 
Obviously you've got to do steam

918
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,880
points for a steam tank, but all
the different weapons, it's just

919
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,280
like, oh God. 
And and where do you measure 

920
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,520
ranges from on the? 
On on. 

921
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,480
On the wall wagon, you know 
Steam Tank's easy because that's

922
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,800
where it's gun is. 
Yeah, but. 

923
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,200
Ranges from a. 
War wagon, you know. 

924
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:50,480
Oh, do you measure from the 
model? 

925
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,520
Then you're going over part of 
the model is, and strictly 

926
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:53,800
speaking, something like the 
blunderbuss. 

927
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,000
If you've got him at the front 
and he's shooting straight 

928
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,400
ahead, does he not kill the 
horses? 

929
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,120
Yeah, they should. 
You know, obviously you wouldn't

930
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:02,480
do. 
That you, you just ignore the 

931
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:07,440
horses and and shoot over them. 
But you know, there is. 

932
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,040
And also we think that's a 
blunderbuss. 

933
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,080
And then the dwarfs, they've got
different rules, I think the two

934
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,240
different blunderbusses. 
Yeah, Yeah, that's a different 

935
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:16,360
the Council blunderbuss and the 
Empire one, Yeah. 

936
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:23,160
And yeah, I actually had great 
results last time I tested it. 

937
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,240
It was like magic. 
I was able to snap next with the

938
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,480
Yeah, yeah, I never succeeded in
that before, but. 

939
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,520
And I broke an entire unit of 
Blackhawks with a blanderbox. 

940
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:36,880
Wow. 
Yeah. 

941
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:37,960
Yeah, yeah. 
Oh, Black. 

942
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:40,320
I think Blackhawks are my 
current. 

943
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:45,920
Favorite unit I used them Boil 
and yeah, they just minced 

944
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,560
whatever they touched. 
They were brilliant. 

945
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,720
I loved them. 
But yeah, no, you've, you've 

946
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:51,320
destroyed some Blackhawks with 
that. 

947
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,480
That's that's a good 
achievement, Yeah. 

948
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,720
And I think they. 
Killed 6 in one shot, Wolf ran 

949
00:48:57,720 --> 00:48:59,320
off. 
Wow, that's great. 

950
00:48:59,960 --> 00:49:01,720
Yeah, it's just heavy charity 
isn't it? 

951
00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:04,480
So yeah, no, I, I said I didn't 
used to like it. 

952
00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:08,920
My opinions changed and now if 
I've got the points I'd probably

953
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,880
include a war wagon probably 
possibly even over a steam tank,

954
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:16,240
just because whilst the weapons 
are a headache moving it is less

955
00:49:16,240 --> 00:49:20,080
of a headache. 
So, so yeah, probably go with 

956
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,200
with a war wagon over a steam 
tank in that sense. 

957
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,360
Also, people probably will. 
Whinge as much. 

958
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,720
But unfortunately if you. 
Don't have one, it's going to 

959
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:30,320
set you back properly to get 
one. 

960
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:35,600
Oh yes, they are very expensive.
Now on, on, on Fleece Bay, yeah,

961
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,320
it's, yeah, difficult to get 
hold of. 

962
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:39,960
Bit like it seems like I said, 
you've got your own one to 

963
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:42,840
include it. 
So, you know, are they, are they

964
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:45,640
that excessive in that sense? 
Probably not, yeah. 

965
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:51,000
And I think the if you compare 
to this Dean tank, the main 

966
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:55,800
drawback is that, you know, even
a strength three attack is in 

967
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,320
danger of putting it into, you 
know, low moving a weight of 

968
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,520
100. 
And 50 points, yeah, yeah. 

969
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:03,240
But then. 
I hope. 

970
00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:05,440
You've still got the crew 
firing, you know, still a still 

971
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,960
a base of operations for them. 
So yeah, no, I, I, I overall I I

972
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,360
quite like the wall wagon. 
Haven't used it that often. 

973
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,840
I've seen it by great cannons 
and hell blasters instead of 

974
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,400
them in my in my allocation. 
But yeah, I think every now and 

975
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,320
then, maybe just as a change 
include all wagon. 

976
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:25,680
Yeah, no, I like it. 
It's cool. 

977
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,080
Pretty model, yeah, absolutely. 
Absolutely. 

978
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,360
Very characterful, very 
characterful indeed. 

979
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:34,200
And then of course, help 
monsters possibly. 

980
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,360
One of the most dangerous guns. 
In the game most hated loss 

981
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:39,800
excuse. 
Me. 

982
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,720
Yeah, they are. 
Yeah. 

983
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,000
They are just going to end an 
yeah. 

984
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:52,040
So yeah, I I am historically an 
undead unscaven player quite a 

985
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:57,200
lot help lost and will just 
yeah, yeah, it means. 

986
00:50:57,720 --> 00:51:00,720
Yeah, it's it's really a no 
brainer in in in that sense. 

987
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:05,160
I mean, they don't. 
You're just hit and then, yeah, 

988
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:06,920
things are going to stop. 
Nothing. 

989
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,640
And then. 
Goodbye unit pretty much there, 

990
00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:13,320
you know, unless you're very 
high toughness is pretty much, 

991
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,360
you know, short and there's 
always. 

992
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:20,520
You know, should you shoot over 
half range or should you wait? 

993
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,520
Yeah. 
I mean, yeah, I, I. 

994
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,400
I would normally hold on to it 
and and fire it for the first 

995
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,840
couple of turns and then unleash
it in one go. 

996
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,360
Probably would be my my 
preference. 

997
00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:38,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 
Well, yeah, obviously. 

998
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:39,960
Obviously, if it's about to be 
charged, then yeah, just 

999
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,640
discharge everything. 
Just just go for it. 

1000
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,760
Well, that's a bit of a waste if
that's on a unit of five like 

1001
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,040
cavalry. 
But generally speaking, though, 

1002
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:51,960
help losses are a no brainer to 
include. 

1003
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:55,600
They they decimate yeah, there's
not a lot you can say about them

1004
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:56,720
really. 
They they just. 

1005
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,880
Yeah, I mean they, they can 
really. 

1006
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:03,120
Yeah. 
And they they are. 

1007
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,360
Going to block one part of the 
battlefield, Yeah, people won't 

1008
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,880
go near from them if you know 
what it is, but that can work 

1009
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:14,160
against you. 
Sometimes my I was playing a 

1010
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,560
game against my Allen and the 
plot, the plot one right in the 

1011
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:23,360
middle of his deployment zone. 
I was playing escape and I just 

1012
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,680
simply went into, I split my arm
into two halves and stayed away 

1013
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:30,760
from it, went down the flanks 
and also then split his infantry

1014
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,200
because they went off and 
Knights, they went off to either

1015
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:37,400
side. 
And whilst it's really not 

1016
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,360
necessarily a advisable tactic, 
this gave him to split your army

1017
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:45,360
up that much. 
But there's plenty of it. 

1018
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,320
And then really there's a lot in
an empire army as well. 

1019
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:52,040
But if you're spending a lot of 
lot of points on cavalry and 

1020
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:55,040
Knights and you split the army 
that way, then there's not a lot

1021
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,680
left to to go for the other 
flank. 

1022
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,240
So yeah, that that was quite an 
effective tactic. 

1023
00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:03,480
But but so anyway, where do we 
get to you? 

1024
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,400
Yeah, body guns. 
Yeah, they yeah, just a no 

1025
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,560
brainer include them. 
They'll destroy everything. 

1026
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:13,720
Well, they shoot at. 
Are you are you on mute at the 

1027
00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:14,880
moment? 
I can't hear you. 

1028
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:16,560
Oh, sorry. 
There we go. 

1029
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:17,120
That's. 
OK. 

1030
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:18,480
Brilliant, I'm back. 
There we go. 

1031
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:20,120
No worries. 
I hope it's. 

1032
00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:24,120
Sort it out with your son. 
Yeah, they're all. 

1033
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:25,320
Right now, they're on the train 
now. 

1034
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:26,520
So, yeah, good. 
Sort of. 

1035
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,480
But she, yeah, that's why she 
kept ringing, because she was 

1036
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,080
kind of panicking and yeah, 
yeah, yeah. 

1037
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,440
I'm a little bit in the doghouse
now for not answering, but there

1038
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,600
we go. 
That's my problem to worry 

1039
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,600
about. 
Yeah. 

1040
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:37,880
OK. 
Yeah. 

1041
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:41,240
Excellent. 
You said hopefully Hot Pot's 

1042
00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:44,440
lost war machine. 
I have. 

1043
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:46,720
I've been on the receiving end, 
I said. 

1044
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,760
Just boil just now and they 
actually killed some storm 

1045
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,560
burning 3rd edition though not 
not 4th but pretty much the same

1046
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:57,720
rules. 
But I do have one to get back 

1047
00:53:57,720 --> 00:53:59,840
and that's going to be part of 
my halfling painting for this 

1048
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:01,960
month. 
So I'll be able to comment then 

1049
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,680
on on how it's once I've tried 
it because I will not use the 

1050
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:08,080
model unless it's painted any 
more. 

1051
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:09,440
I used to. 
But not now. 

1052
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:11,520
Yeah, and they have an 
excellent. 

1053
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,800
Little mini story in the the 
army They do, yes. 

1054
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,400
Very nice. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1055
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:18,520
Melting. 
Oh, that's the. 

1056
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:20,000
Flavour. 
It's fantastic. 

1057
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:21,720
A bit annoying. 
There are just zero to 1. 

1058
00:54:21,720 --> 00:54:23,480
You can only have what? 
I suppose that stops you just 

1059
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,200
filling out your machine 
allocation with halfling hot 

1060
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:29,200
pots, I guess. 
Yeah, but zero to 1 only. 

1061
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,440
Does that mean there's only so 
if you want around or who knows?

1062
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:38,720
Yeah, they I'd never hit 
anything with them, but I'm 

1063
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:42,000
going to keep trying and I 
suppose unless you're under the.

1064
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,400
Dot, it's only strength three. 
Yeah, it's not so. 

1065
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,680
Yeah, yeah. 
But but. 

1066
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:50,400
Characterful and fun. 
It is, yes. 

1067
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,640
Yeah, and I mean, it would be 
quite embarrassing for the 

1068
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,840
opponent, you know, killing some
valuable Knights or something 

1069
00:54:57,840 --> 00:54:59,800
within. 
Yeah, I mean, it's only. 

1070
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:00,800
One wound. 
So you're not. 

1071
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:02,720
You're probably not going to 
kill a character unless you've 

1072
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:05,240
already knocked some, some 
wounds off a character. 

1073
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:11,320
But yeah, I'm covered in soup. 
Or, you know, whatever it is 

1074
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,600
that's in the that's in the 
Stew. 

1075
00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:14,920
But it's firing. 
Yeah. 

1076
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:17,920
Very embarrassing. 
But the. 

1077
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,040
The It's just going to happen. 
Yeah, it's still toughness 7 as 

1078
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:23,480
a. 
As a war machine, that's pretty 

1079
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:25,400
surprising. 
I don't think it'll have a 

1080
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,960
lesser toughness, but of course 
it's not. 

1081
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:31,480
Going to be difficult to kill 
the halflings, so it's still 

1082
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,760
quite squishy. 
I guess this is true, yeah. 

1083
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:36,200
It's useless if once they're 
dead. 

1084
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:37,280
Yeah, they're not really. 
Yeah. 

1085
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:38,640
I mean, you can't really hide 
behind them. 

1086
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:42,680
In, in, in force. 
So, yeah, what? 

1087
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:43,960
I'm looking forward to giving a 
go. 

1088
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,920
Yeah. 
All right. 

1089
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:50,400
So should we just go over the 
monsters really quickly? 

1090
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,760
I guess yeah, the options are. 
There, but because of the way 

1091
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:59,960
the models are, I think the only
ones I'd really consider for for

1092
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:02,960
them really. 
Probably a dragon, but that'd be

1093
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,200
a big gain. 
Really big gain. 

1094
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,240
Oh, that Griffin, Hippogriff and
Pegasus probably would be the 

1095
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:11,840
only ones that I would, from an 
aesthetic point of view, I would

1096
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:14,160
choose. 
I mean, Griffins and Hippogriffs

1097
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:18,680
and Pegasus, they're all 
creatures of chaos, so you know.

1098
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:19,920
When? 
You look at it, they're all 

1099
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:24,160
mutated things of chaos. 
So all of them have valid, you 

1100
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:28,040
know, home there. 
You could argue pretty much, but

1101
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:29,640
those are the three that I'd 
really look at. 

1102
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,640
Yeah, it'd be a bit weird to. 
Include a vibe against an orphan

1103
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,920
compliance army, for example, 
you could by mirror cockatrice 

1104
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,320
just as. 
A like for an empire army so you

1105
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,640
could make an odd for cockatrice
I guess. 

1106
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:51,040
I think manticore is 1. 
Of the one of the state flags I 

1107
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:55,680
think is a manticore but. 
It's a bad. 

1108
00:56:55,800 --> 00:57:02,760
E-mail so the. 
Completionist in me says that I 

1109
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:07,440
should at some point get all the
monsters, but not very easy to 

1110
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,200
find around here, at least if 
you want the European ones. 

1111
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:15,080
Swarms Swarms Black Tree design 
I. 

1112
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:19,560
Mean getting a delivery from 
them is hard, but but they do do

1113
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,080
a lot of swarms. 
I've got some scorpion swarms to

1114
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,240
paint up for. 
I'm going to do them for my 

1115
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,480
chaos and do them in kind of 
pastels. 

1116
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,520
So they're kind of slanishy 
things because you know, 

1117
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,800
scorpion is one of the animals 
of slanish. 

1118
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,520
You know, a lot of things have 
got scorpion claws and tails. 

1119
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:39,800
So yeah, I I thought some pastel
kind of painted scorpions would 

1120
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:41,360
look quite called as a swarm for
chaos. 

1121
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,120
Well, the well, the chaos needs 
swarms at 100 points for base. 

1122
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:48,840
It's quite, I think 100 points 
is a lot for a swarm, awful lot.

1123
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,440
You know, the armies that can 
have reduced value, ones like 

1124
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:57,760
the scape and getting a A50 
point, they become a lot more 

1125
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:02,200
effective and a lot more useful.
If 50 points, 100 points, it's a

1126
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,320
lot, yeah. 
I don't remember seeing. 

1127
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:09,600
Anyone using swarms? 
You know, apart from escaping 

1128
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:14,040
armies really. 
Although bats. 

1129
00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,200
Bats, yeah, from dead, but 
again, 100 points is a lot of 

1130
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,360
points to invest, you know, and 
one base isn't going to do a lot

1131
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,040
so really. 
Three. 

1132
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:26,880
Yeah, you need about. 
Three at most really. 

1133
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,360
So you're looking at 300 points 
as opposed to scaling. 

1134
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:31,640
Rats was 150. 
You know, that's that's where 

1135
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,960
the difference comes in. 
So whether I use my chaos, I 

1136
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,840
mean, I don't know. 
But then again, depends on what 

1137
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:39,160
kind of game I'm playing. 
If I'm just playing, you know, 

1138
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,160
get all the models on the board 
sort of game, then yeah, the the

1139
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,720
swarm of 3/4 bases is is viable 
in that sense. 

1140
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:50,120
So if you did use monsters back 
then, did use them as mounts or 

1141
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,480
as yes on their own mounts, 
typically as mounts. 

1142
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:56,000
Not really for the Empire that 
much. 

1143
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:58,760
Again, that was more cardboard 
based time. 

1144
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,120
We didn't have the Emperor and 
we didn't have the dude on the 

1145
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:05,720
Pegasus. 
So no, we didn't really use them

1146
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:10,880
for Empire. 
I know my mate Alan recently has

1147
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:16,560
started using a Griffin unmount 
without a rider in his armies, 

1148
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,080
and the Griffin actually on its 
own is pretty good. 

1149
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,000
It's got a. 
Reasonable. 

1150
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:26,760
Yeah, it's got high weapon 
skill, you know, high strength. 

1151
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:29,880
What's the OK, It's got an extra
attack over Hippogriff. 

1152
00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:32,920
That's actually for a five 
points difference. 

1153
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,240
Britain's that OK? 
OK, Hippogriff. 

1154
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:38,040
Is a bit quicker. 
It's got movement of eight as 

1155
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:42,080
opposed to 65. 
Who cares exactly? 

1156
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,480
It's like like great eagles. 
Got movement of two, Who cares, 

1157
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:47,120
they fly. 
Yeah, OK. 

1158
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:49,280
If they're grounded. 
There's an issue, but generally,

1159
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,040
you know, five points, yeah. 
Why? 

1160
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:54,800
Why would? 
You go over Hippogriff over of 

1161
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:56,720
Griffin for five points 
difference. 

1162
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,640
OK, because you've got the 
model, obviously, but you know, 

1163
00:59:59,720 --> 01:00:02,320
if you've got the model, but 
overall, yeah, no, Griffin's 

1164
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,240
much better value for points. 
It's it's pretty. 

1165
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:05,800
Much the same. 
It's got higher initiative, one 

1166
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,600
more attack. 
That they're two good reasons to

1167
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:11,520
go through. 
Griffin overhead Griffin for the

1168
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:14,680
five points difference and yeah,
I might consider that wouldn't 

1169
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,920
really go giant spiders. 
They just they don't they don't 

1170
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,520
smack of empire. 
No, they don't. 

1171
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,280
They're just talking about it. 
I said magic would really 

1172
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,560
covered that, you know. 
OK, it's 200 points more. 

1173
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:29,320
What's it got? 
It's got extra point of weapon 

1174
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:32,360
skill. 
It's stronger, it's got higher 

1175
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:36,600
toughness. 
Same number of wounds. 

1176
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,400
Lower initiative. 
A lot lower initiative. 

1177
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,200
And it's got the same. 
Number of taxes as Griffin, not 

1178
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:44,920
sure. 
Manticore, yeah, again, Griffin 

1179
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,520
I think is probably the out of 
those 3 animals which the stats 

1180
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:50,120
are pretty similar. 
I think Griffin's probably a 

1181
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:51,960
better bet out of those three 
anyway. 

1182
01:00:52,080 --> 01:00:54,400
Plus I think the aesthetics 
that's empire better than than a

1183
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:57,120
manticore. 
Yeah, that's true. 

1184
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:02,200
And why words are forks. 
Yeah, clearly I did intend to 

1185
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:05,480
get one from the the maid to 
order, but I never did. 

1186
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:10,760
It was my order was cancelled 
sadly for whatever reason. 

1187
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:17,520
One of those, yeah. 
So yeah, a lot of options, but 

1188
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,960
you know, you probably wouldn't 
use some all definitely. 

1189
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:23,520
Yeah. 
I mean, don't get me wrong you. 

1190
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:25,560
Know if my opponent did it, I'm 
not going to. 

1191
01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:27,040
I'm not going to kick up 
anything. 

1192
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:29,920
That's fine. 
I personally wouldn't choose 

1193
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:33,560
them, no. 
Right. 

1194
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:38,080
So yeah, we did talk about some 
of the special characters, maybe

1195
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,840
a quick mentioning of some of 
the others, the obviously the 

1196
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:42,880
Emperor. 
Yeah, yeah, pretty. 

1197
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:48,440
Good 10 that's good for general 
but I don't know the items. 

1198
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,720
OK, I know the seal was very 
good. 

1199
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,920
I think the one is 1 to hit and 
a four plus hit 4 plus spell or 

1200
01:01:55,920 --> 01:01:58,720
automatic dispel. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1201
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:00,680
Four plus dispell, I think 
that's pretty good. 

1202
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:04,280
Yeah, and you can still. 
Give him some magic armour if 

1203
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:05,120
you would like. 
Yeah. 

1204
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,600
So exactly. 
I think that's pretty good. 

1205
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,680
And then the hammer of Sigma, 
though, is phenomenal in that 

1206
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:15,200
you'd have to roll to wound and 
there's no armour safe, because 

1207
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,960
the problem with all those 
weapons that don't that negate 

1208
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:21,600
rolling to wound is you've still
got to somehow get through the 

1209
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:22,680
armour. 
Yeah. 

1210
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:25,760
I think the hammer of Sigma just
Nope. 

1211
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:28,080
None of that. 
I think the. 

1212
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:32,440
Wound no armour safe. 
The problem maybe if you meet 

1213
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:37,200
some other beefed up characters 
is that you you're not going to 

1214
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,400
cause a lot of wounds. 
You I mean if you meet something

1215
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:43,560
with a high weapon skill, you on
average going to cause 2 wounds 

1216
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,640
and that's not going to be 
enough to kill a big thing. 

1217
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:48,760
That's true, That's true, But 
hopefully the silver. 

1218
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,600
Seal keeps you alive by giving 
that -1 to because that that 

1219
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,600
kind of evens the odds with like
a chaos. 

1220
01:02:54,600 --> 01:02:58,280
You charge you to chaos Lord or 
they charge you whatever the -1 

1221
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,240
to hit suddenly means they're 
not doing a three plus. 

1222
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,280
They're only on A4 plus, same as
what you're probably going to be

1223
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,520
hitting on. 
So that kind of evens the odds a

1224
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:12,280
bit yes, give them some magic 
karma to try and you know keep 

1225
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,960
them alive from those attacks. 
If they've got this is again as 

1226
01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:17,920
stained earlier. 
You know, I've started to really

1227
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:22,560
take note of multi wound 
weapons, magic weapons, and 

1228
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:23,880
that's where that comes in, 
isn't it? 

1229
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:27,800
The the the Hammerstein doesn't 
do it, but it wasn't that 

1230
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:31,200
prevalent in in I don't think at
the timing force people really 

1231
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:33,000
took notice of multi wounded 
weapons. 

1232
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:35,960
You know, they, they were 
considered where you got to get 

1233
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,280
the wound in in the first place.
Yeah. 

1234
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:43,200
In most challenges you. 
Don't actually often kill the 

1235
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:46,080
other opponent outright. 
You tend to maybe do 1 wound and

1236
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:48,200
it's an or of attrition in 
actual fact. 

1237
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:52,760
So multi wound weapons, suddenly
it's like I've only got to do 1 

1238
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:57,400
wound and I might kill you. 
So suddenly they're really quite

1239
01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,520
effective. 
So yeah, it could do with that 

1240
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,120
on the hammer Sigma. 
You know, I think in six they 

1241
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,600
did add that in. 
I think it became multi wound. 

1242
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:07,440
Yeah. 
Yeah, it did. 

1243
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:10,680
Oh yeah. 
Oh, no. 

1244
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:12,760
Before just. 
Before we move on, my brother 

1245
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:17,800
did port for the game we did at 
Boyle this year. 

1246
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:20,920
He did port the Emperor O in 
3rd. 

1247
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:23,680
He didn't port the 4th edition 
one back though. 

1248
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:31,520
What he ported was the Warhammer
role play version of him and he 

1249
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:35,840
just he's super powerful. 
If you do that, his hammer is 

1250
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:38,920
just basically is if you're 
chaos, his hammer will kill you.

1251
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:43,040
So that's simple. 
And he has some sort of 

1252
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:45,080
psychological effect on them and
all sorts. 

1253
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,440
There's all sorts of things and 
basically he is like a superhero

1254
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:50,520
if you if you use that. 
Version. 

1255
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:55,040
Here he is very much he is. 
He is a leader of men, but he is

1256
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:57,200
a man. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1257
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,960
That's why it's only the 
leadership that does anything 

1258
01:04:59,960 --> 01:05:02,680
and he doesn't have any special 
roots either. 

1259
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:09,600
So it's I mean you could make 
generic general of the same 

1260
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:11,200
quality much Yeah. 
And you can give them. 

1261
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:13,760
Hammer of Sigma and Silver Seal,
they're not unique to to the 

1262
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:16,040
Emperor. 
So I'm just saying you can yes, 

1263
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:21,080
but he will be exactly the same 
except the leadership. 

1264
01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:23,880
Except the leadership could be 
good, but you know. 

1265
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:29,080
OK, we talked about Magnus, and 
then there's Swartz Helm. 

1266
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:32,040
And I mean, he's a good Army 
standard bearer. 

1267
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,160
Except he. 
Can't have a magic banner. 

1268
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:40,000
No, he can't because he's got 
his sword. 

1269
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:42,960
That's true, That's true. 
But to be honest with you, these

1270
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,480
days for me, I tend to just take
if I take an army standard 

1271
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:47,680
bearer, except with Scaven. 
If I take an army standard 

1272
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,920
bearer then it's really only for
the re rolling of the brake 

1273
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,360
chest I'm worried about. 
Yeah I I usually. 

1274
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,320
Don't use the Magic Banner, but 
I know for a lot of people 

1275
01:05:56,320 --> 01:05:59,200
that's a big thing and it's a 
little bit weird that you can't 

1276
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:02,120
have a Magic Banner on your. 
Yeah, true. 

1277
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:03,120
But he. 
Is. 

1278
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:05,880
He is a very good character for 
the points though. 

1279
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:08,680
Yeah. 
And yeah, he's. 3 rules, yeah, 

1280
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:11,760
that's huge, obviously, because 
three attacks. 

1281
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:17,080
And his sword, you know, he's re
rolling tits and no armour safe.

1282
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,080
So he's he's pretty effective 
fighter. 

1283
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:23,000
So, OK, not out on his own, No, 
you never charge him in on his 

1284
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:26,040
own. 
But in a unit of Knights, he's a

1285
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:28,240
really effective additional 
character in that front ring. 

1286
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:30,680
He looks really powerful. 
Yeah. 

1287
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:31,240
He does, yeah. 
He's a. 

1288
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:32,840
Lovely model. 
He is a lovely model. 

1289
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:38,240
And then grant theorganist, you 
know, Yeah. 

1290
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:41,640
Combination of point random. 
Wizards, Yeah. 

1291
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:46,040
So, and I mean, he has a bunch 
of special rules and that's one 

1292
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:50,440
of the instances where there is 
a significant difference between

1293
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:53,080
the 4th and 5th edition of the 
book. 

1294
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:57,600
Oh yes, there's the. 
Apology effect isn't there? 

1295
01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:59,320
Yeah. 
So it's you have. 

1296
01:06:59,320 --> 01:07:04,640
An unbreakable Everyone is 
unbreakable within 6 inches, so 

1297
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:08,440
that's good. 
Obviously if you have two units 

1298
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:10,560
besides and to get a 4th edition
copy. 

1299
01:07:10,560 --> 01:07:13,360
I'm gonna have to just for my, 
for my collection anyway, We 

1300
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:14,800
have to get a full edition copy 
for sure. 

1301
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:16,680
So yeah, I'll fix that. 
Yeah. 

1302
01:07:16,680 --> 01:07:18,520
No, overall, he's a pretty solid
choice. 

1303
01:07:18,680 --> 01:07:21,520
He's a pretty solid choice, and 
he's not a. 

1304
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:25,120
Bad cost. 
So he has his own P 3 + 1 cards,

1305
01:07:25,120 --> 01:07:28,880
which is which is pretty nice in
like small games and so on. 

1306
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,560
And then he can use if you want 
to like high magic. 

1307
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,360
That's yeah, kinda cool. 
That's very cool. 

1308
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:39,120
OK, He only gets. 
Two spells, yeah, but does he 

1309
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:42,040
get to select them or does he 
need to deal them randomly 

1310
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:44,120
still? 
I think like, yeah. 

1311
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:46,560
Really. 
One else I think yeah dealt 2 

1312
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:48,920
spells in the same way it's 11/2
with so yeah. 

1313
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,400
OK, so they are dead. 
It's the ability to potentially 

1314
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,720
get that banishment spell 
against undead and chaos. 

1315
01:07:54,720 --> 01:07:57,200
Isn't it from from the high 
match? 

1316
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,440
But it's a low chance. 
That's probably, you know, 2 two

1317
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:05,600
out of 10, but you can, you can.
Switch those two out so you have

1318
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:07,400
those you can. 
So you get double with the Yeah.

1319
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,080
But it's still pretty low chance
of getting manageable. 

1320
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:13,200
But there are a couple of other 
good ones as. 

1321
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:15,320
Well, so Oh yeah, no, you're 
probably again. 

1322
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:17,319
Too good high magic. 
Deck is fantastic. 

1323
01:08:17,319 --> 01:08:21,120
I've got a lot of love for the 
high Magic deck, so it's always 

1324
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:24,560
a good shout maybe to go for 
high Magic for him for sure. 

1325
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:30,680
And I mean. 
In a, in a competitive 

1326
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,319
environment, I guess he doesn't 
have any ward States and I don't

1327
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:36,960
think he can get one. 
He can he can heal, can't he? 

1328
01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:38,120
I. 
Think he can heal? 

1329
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:43,319
He doesn't get 3 wounds in in 
one round of combat shooting. 

1330
01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:45,520
He's fine. 
We're back to those multi wound 

1331
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:49,200
weapons again. 
Yeah, generally in most combats 

1332
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:51,240
are said he should survive 
unless you've got a multi wing 

1333
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:52,840
weapon, he should survive and 
then he can heal. 

1334
01:08:53,319 --> 01:08:56,319
So that's nice. 
Yeah, he's a pretty cool 

1335
01:08:56,319 --> 01:08:59,720
character and the, you know, 
that's a lot of things pretty 

1336
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,120
good. 
So that's fine enough. 

1337
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:03,359
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

1338
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:07,520
And then we have the. 
Supreme Patriarch, no special 

1339
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:11,399
rules at all, and I think he and
the staff is unique to him. 

1340
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:13,960
Either, I don't think it's just 
him, I think anyone can take the

1341
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:15,600
staff. 
I believe, I can't remember if 

1342
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:16,680
something maybe it's unique to 
him. 

1343
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,319
I can't remember. 
Yeah, but it's. 

1344
01:09:19,319 --> 01:09:21,720
A bit cheeky to give it to 
someone else. 

1345
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:24,720
It is that there you could be. 
Symbolising a time when he 

1346
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,960
wasn't the Super Room patriarch,
you know. 

1347
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:30,240
If that's part of the fluff. 
Of the battle you're playing, 

1348
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:31,880
then there's no idea for doing 
it. 

1349
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,080
But yeah, I wouldn't generally 
use it. 

1350
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:37,040
No. 
Anything that is the although he

1351
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:40,600
doesn't say the on his on the 
entry, it does say further down 

1352
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,160
it says the stopper. 
Generally the if something says 

1353
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:46,720
the I think it should be used 
very sparingly anyway. 

1354
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:54,360
The means it's one and I think. 
I mean in earlier items it was 

1355
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:57,240
maybe more of an oversight. 
I don't think they actually 

1356
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,720
intended for goblin champions to
run around with sort of 

1357
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,440
techlifts or something. 
But no, I don't think they did 

1358
01:10:03,440 --> 01:10:05,400
either. 
I think that was should have 

1359
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:09,920
been, yes, a high or funny. 
Yeah, we something I didn't 

1360
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:14,760
realize until until getting back
into force is the Staff of 

1361
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,040
Lightning is Hawks and Goblins 
only in fourth. 

1362
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:19,840
In fifth, anyone can take it. 
Yeah, Yeah, exactly. 

1363
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:21,880
Yeah, No one is they think, oh, 
Staff of Lighting's very not. 

1364
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:24,520
No, the staff of Lightning is 
just Hawks and goblins. 

1365
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:27,880
They did put that on the card, 
even though it's one of those 

1366
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:32,360
original box set cards. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1367
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,200
And. 
Apart from that, he has actually

1368
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:40,240
one more lead ship and one more 
weapon skill for a weapon skill 

1369
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:41,080
for a wizard. 
Yeah. 

1370
01:10:42,440 --> 01:10:44,960
I mean, they're not total 
pushovers overseen. 

1371
01:10:44,960 --> 01:10:46,400
No, they're not. 
No, no, no. 

1372
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:49,600
He's got, you know, he's got 
toughness for so that means he's

1373
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:52,480
a little survival, but obviously
no armour except for the bodied 

1374
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:57,840
horse and it's just. 
Actually for plus one leadership

1375
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:02,000
and plus one weapons he has cost
3 points more than a normal 

1376
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:03,720
Lord. 
So I think that's a. 

1377
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:07,400
Fair reason to include him. 
Obviously not in every single 

1378
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:09,680
battle like they did in White 
Dwarf. 

1379
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:15,240
He was in every single battle 
for a while and I think that's 

1380
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:18,520
also different. 
I think in 5th edition he's, 

1381
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:24,400
well, it's the other way around.
He's Bright wizard 6th edition 6

1382
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:25,960
is. 
A different person, yeah, the 

1383
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:30,960
supreme patriarch is a different
about the guilt and I think. 

1384
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:36,280
Yeah, I don't think he's 
identified as a bright wizard in

1385
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:39,560
5th edition. 
It's battle with it. 

1386
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:43,640
So 5th edition, yeah. 
Yeah, that's true. 

1387
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:45,720
I mean, you could still, they 
did say in the book you could 

1388
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:47,800
still use 4th edition cards if 
you had them. 

1389
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:52,080
But yeah, I'm not I'm not a fan 
of that whole no no deck thing. 

1390
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:52,960
I've. 
Horribly boring. 

1391
01:11:53,440 --> 01:11:58,600
Well, just the name. 
Net magic missile, yeah, it's 

1392
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:00,520
just like thank you. 
Well, I mean, that is the 

1393
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:04,600
spelling, the bright deck, but 
it has more favour to it in in 

1394
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:08,040
bright deck. 
But it's just something yeah, 

1395
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,480
no, let's not talk about fit. 
I'll, I'll I've got too many, 

1396
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:16,000
too many hang ups with it. 
The stopper bonus is quite nice,

1397
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,960
though. 
Absolutely going to, you know, 

1398
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:22,520
having total power, it can run 
out. 

1399
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:27,280
But yeah, right. 
Then we have the Rex Marshall. 

1400
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:30,120
He's also not very special. 
He doesn't have any special 

1401
01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:32,600
rules, but he has West Coast 
scale of seven. 

1402
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:36,520
Yeah, open scale we. 
Can go pass par with an L4 or a 

1403
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:44,720
dwarf, but yeah, he's again he 
he he's very vanilla, yeah, but 

1404
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:47,360
he. 
Looks excellent in the unit of 

1405
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:49,200
Ryke Scott. 
Yeah, he's a nice model, I 

1406
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:50,600
agree. 
Nice model, but. 

1407
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:53,960
Yeah, pretty. 
Dull. 

1408
01:12:54,720 --> 01:13:00,960
He's not he's not exciting. 
No, right there we have a bunch 

1409
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:03,000
of. 
Yeah, but the the. 

1410
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:07,760
But the elect accounts, however,
the fact that they and I, I 

1411
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:11,200
never cottoned on to this until 
later until again, once I've got

1412
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:13,720
back into it. 
Any elect accounts can be your 

1413
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,280
general. 
Any of the any of the characters

1414
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,320
in the Empire book can be your 
general. 

1415
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:20,920
So any of the special characters
you can have the Supreme 

1416
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,400
patriarch being your general. 
Yeah, but the elect counts are a

1417
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:26,920
good because they they're that, 
well, they're actually the same 

1418
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:28,120
got they're round about the 
same. 

1419
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:29,480
They're 10 points cheaper, 
aren't they? 

1420
01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:33,720
But they've got good leadership,
they're slightly cheaper, and 

1421
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:38,400
they are full of character, 
those electric counts and actual

1422
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:40,560
fact, I've kind of got an 
agreement with my brother that I

1423
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:46,200
can use the because the electric
count stats are standard across 

1424
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:47,440
all three. 
All four of them. 

1425
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:49,400
Yeah. 
So we've kind of got an 

1426
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:51,160
agreement. 
I can just use these electric 

1427
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:55,360
count stats and give them A and,
and have the electric count of 

1428
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:59,360
Nordland leading my Nordland. 
I mean, it just basically uses 

1429
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:02,040
exactly the same things because 
the heavy armours included in 

1430
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:05,160
it, the the bodied wars is 
included in that cost. 

1431
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:10,240
So 90 points plus 30 points and 
he gets heavy armour shield 

1432
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,560
bodied wars. 
OK, yes, three of them don't 

1433
01:14:13,560 --> 01:14:16,000
have Shields, but I've kind of 
based mine upon Boris 

1434
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,400
Todbringer, who does have a 
shield and I give him that amber

1435
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:22,840
amulet sometimes, which is 
exactly the same as the Taliban 

1436
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:24,320
of Ulrich. 
Yeah. 

1437
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:27,760
In in effect. 
So is in effect is in effect 

1438
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:29,440
just the rules for Boris 
Todbringer. 

1439
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:35,400
So yeah, I, I love them. 
I, I think they're great, though

1440
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,000
I didn't in the day. 
I didn't back in the day, I 

1441
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:39,240
thought the elect caps were a 
bit poo. 

1442
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:43,520
But in actual fact, no, I think 
for the points for the 

1443
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,480
leadership, which is what you, 
that's the main thing you want 

1444
01:14:46,480 --> 01:14:49,160
from your general with the 
empire, you need leadership. 

1445
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:54,280
So I think overall, you know, 
still got OK, only three 

1446
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,600
attacks, not 4 only weapons, 
skill 5, you know, but they do 

1447
01:14:57,600 --> 01:14:59,400
have 3 wounds. 
They've got toughness of four. 

1448
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,240
I think they're pretty good for 
you. 

1449
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:03,760
I think they're nice and you 
know, they all have. 

1450
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:07,640
Two of them have special rules, 
but the other ones have, you 

1451
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:10,480
know, slightly unique items, 
more or less. 

1452
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:13,200
So yeah, I think they're nice 
models. 

1453
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:21,000
And Marius, the Mad Lord, he 
actually costs a bit more. 

1454
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:24,400
He costs 110 points, but you 
know, he has the pleasure of 

1455
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,320
having Oh, yes, yes. 
The additional attack, yes. 

1456
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:31,840
Yeah, but is he the same? 
That obviously got the extra tap

1457
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:33,800
from the additional hand weapon,
but he's the same stats, isn't 

1458
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:35,480
he? 
I think Yep, he is. 

1459
01:15:35,480 --> 01:15:40,280
In my 5th edition book anyway. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1460
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:41,920
Oh, and he's frenzied as well. 
Yeah. 

1461
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:44,600
OK, so he's the extra hang 
weapon and he's frenzied. 

1462
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:47,000
Yeah, so he got 7 attacks, but 
yeah. 

1463
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:48,960
So he's pretty. 
Pretty tasty in that sense. 

1464
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:51,320
Yeah. 
So yeah, no, I'll give him a go 

1465
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:53,480
in fourth at some point. 
I do have the model painted up. 

1466
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:57,280
I painted him up for my birthday
game for one of the other Empire

1467
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:02,480
generals to use as his leader. 
So yeah, no, I, I, I will give 

1468
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:05,320
him a go at some point. 
I I do want to at some point 

1469
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:09,480
have a little Avalan force, but 
that's yet another Empire army 

1470
01:16:09,480 --> 01:16:12,560
to play. 
Might pass for now. 

1471
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:18,920
Yeah. 
And then and then, yes, I 

1472
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:20,800
suppose. 
Exactly what I was about to say.

1473
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:23,440
Ice cream before, before arcane 
magic came out. 

1474
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:25,440
The only way you can get an ice 
wizard as well. 

1475
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:29,600
She's pretty cool actually. 
She's got a high leadership. 

1476
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:32,000
OK, Webb Schiller isn't that 
great. 

1477
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:34,920
Toughness isn't great. 
Only three wounds, but she does 

1478
01:16:34,920 --> 01:16:38,360
have a an alternative frost 
blade. 

1479
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:40,840
It's not the same the rules I 
think. 

1480
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:44,120
Potentially. 
Yeah, but it's the same cost. 

1481
01:16:44,120 --> 01:16:45,960
As 100 points, but she. 
She's not bad as a character, 

1482
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:49,440
you know, in a unit with a 
decent hero, I think she's 

1483
01:16:49,440 --> 01:16:52,640
probably the most effective. 
And it's just those ice. 

1484
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:55,520
I think the ice spells are 
really good deck. 

1485
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:58,600
It's really good. 
But I, I think the, I mean, 

1486
01:16:59,240 --> 01:17:02,000
yeah, fear. 
For us, it's not a bad weapon, 

1487
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:07,120
but you know, she's not the best
person to, I mean, it's a little

1488
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:10,680
bit of a waste to give to a 
wizard even though they're not 

1489
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:13,520
totally pursuers. 
But yeah. 

1490
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:18,800
But yeah, she's, you know, ice 
model and a bit unique. 

1491
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:23,240
And as you said, the only one 
that could use ice magic in the 

1492
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:26,440
5th. 
Or was it? 

1493
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:29,520
Yeah, we could yeah, 
Archaemedic. 

1494
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:32,720
So it was 340 actually to them, 
but it was, you know, late 24. 

1495
01:17:32,720 --> 01:17:35,640
I mean it's but also. 
You've got very much, you've got

1496
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:37,600
leadship 10. 
So if you're leading a unit of 

1497
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:40,280
Knights, you know, kids like 
Wing Lancers, giving them that 

1498
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:44,800
leadship of 10, that's something
making Wing Lancers even better.

1499
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,000
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1500
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:50,640
So yeah, why not? 
I don't think. 

1501
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:54,120
I'd be used to. 
I do have a thing to, but I 

1502
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:56,960
guess unless you're using the 
Emperor strictly speaking. 

1503
01:17:57,520 --> 01:17:59,600
What's his what's Kurt's 
leadership? 

1504
01:17:59,960 --> 01:18:01,920
Hang on. 
There is an argument saying she 

1505
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:03,560
has to be your she should be 
your general. 

1506
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:07,480
If you're not using the empire 
with the leadership 10 Yeah, 

1507
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:09,320
she's the best leadership in the
in. 

1508
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:11,120
The whole army except for for 
Karl. 

1509
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:15,360
Franz, who has it equal. 
There's an argument she should 

1510
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:17,080
be that's. 
Something I've not considered. 

1511
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:21,680
Before I might, because I might 
try that one an it might be an 

1512
01:18:21,680 --> 01:18:26,680
army of wing Lancers. 
It should be a couple of these 

1513
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:28,040
two. 
Well, you could. 

1514
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:30,640
You could. 
Convert up some or use Cossacks.

1515
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:33,360
Or something like that to get 
some some of the other troop 

1516
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:36,040
types, I guess. 
OK, yeah, no, I won't consider 

1517
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:38,560
that in future. 
Give that a go just to be 

1518
01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:42,920
characterful. 
Yeah, it's level. 

1519
01:18:42,920 --> 01:18:44,400
Three. 
Yeah, not 4. 

1520
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:50,200
Yeah, there's a couple of 
things. 

1521
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:52,600
One should probably give a go. 
Yeah. 

1522
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:55,000
Awesome. 
Cool. 

1523
01:18:55,240 --> 01:18:57,080
That's. 
That's the Army book really. 

1524
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,160
Obviously the difference between
4th and 5th ones. 

1525
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:03,800
There was a there was a 
catalogue pages in fourth and 

1526
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:08,520
you've got army list builds in 
5th and I prefer the 4th ones 

1527
01:19:10,440 --> 01:19:12,840
what I understand. 
Maybe for people that are 

1528
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:17,120
coming. 
Back to the hobby from you know 

1529
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:21,840
later editions and or first time
touching the hobby. 

1530
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:25,880
Then those army lists are useful
to give you the idea of this is 

1531
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,960
what you're supposed to do an 
actual example as opposed to 

1532
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,680
just telling people what to do 
in in the preface. 

1533
01:19:32,360 --> 01:19:34,640
Yeah. 
And I think it look like we said

1534
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:38,480
it that. 
Isn't very useful or helpful for

1535
01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:41,640
anyone who reads it on how 
you're supposed to do things. 

1536
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:46,560
Anomalist is probably a good at 
it, but I like the catalogue 

1537
01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:49,880
entries, obviously, you know, 
Yeah, so that's a nice. 

1538
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:53,760
Historical viewing of of the 
miniatures that you know, not 

1539
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:56,680
everything got photographed for 
those lovely colour photos in 

1540
01:19:56,680 --> 01:19:59,880
army books. 
So having them, you know, the 

1541
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:04,520
the the catalogue pages, a nice 
way of still recording what 

1542
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:07,800
models were around at the time, 
I think. 

1543
01:20:09,640 --> 01:20:11,760
Yeah, right. 
So we put these three hours 

1544
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:13,840
here. 
Yeah, I think that's probably 

1545
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:17,400
time to draw it towards. 
A close, I guess if there's 

1546
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:21,000
anything else that you think you
want to cover or you want to 

1547
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:25,320
discuss, maybe just do another 
little, little shorter session 

1548
01:20:25,320 --> 01:20:26,600
further on. 
But I think that's probably a 

1549
01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:29,840
quite a lot of material for for 
Josh to use for his Crown of 

1550
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:33,720
Command podcast. 
Is there anything he wants as 

1551
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:35,080
well? 
Josh, when you're listening to 

1552
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,440
this, eventually, if there's 
anything you'd like us to maybe 

1553
01:20:37,440 --> 01:20:41,080
go over and and cover, yeah, let
us know. 

1554
01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:42,960
We can always jump on. 
Maybe Josh can join us for that 

1555
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:46,400
as well. 
That final part, if one aspect 

1556
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,360
we didn't, yeah, I think 1. 
Aspect we didn't talk too much 

1557
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:54,240
about, but you may touch it a 
bit is, you know, if you want to

1558
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:59,560
get into it today, how do you go
about to make an army model wise

1559
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:01,440
and so on. 
We talked about what models are 

1560
01:21:01,440 --> 01:21:04,680
out there. 
And tactics I guess is the other

1561
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:07,960
one really, maybe we could 
discuss. 

1562
01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:12,080
I'm probably not the best 
necessary for tactics with an 

1563
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:14,200
empire and I don't really use it
that much. 

1564
01:21:14,480 --> 01:21:19,160
I haven't used it more recently 
but and and when I was younger I

1565
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:26,080
probably wasn't really using 
tactics like 1110 or 11 exactly.

1566
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:28,520
So, but I'm happy to, you know, 
discuss. 

1567
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:31,440
Them and and you know and also 
theoretical tactics like like 

1568
01:21:31,440 --> 01:21:33,960
we've done a little bit of you 
know, things to maybe try out in

1569
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:36,440
a battle at some point. 
Happy to do that but yeah 

1570
01:21:36,440 --> 01:21:39,080
probably I should leave so I've 
got to go pick my partner up 

1571
01:21:39,080 --> 01:21:42,000
soon from the from, not from the
but it doesn't ask me to come 

1572
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,480
from I've got to be right from 
the train station at some point 

1573
01:21:44,520 --> 01:21:48,080
probably where I'm going to end 
up yeah but no you've got up 

1574
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:51,360
from the train station so yeah 
probably right to call to draw a

1575
01:21:51,360 --> 01:21:54,040
veil over it for today we could 
probably talk for hours and 

1576
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:57,280
hours and hours and hours and 
hours and keep we've got shared 

1577
01:21:57,280 --> 01:21:58,400
interest and we're. 
Nerds. 

1578
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:00,040
So, you know, we could. 
Do it for hours. 

1579
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:02,880
I mean, that's the thing to do 
when you get. 

1580
01:22:02,880 --> 01:22:04,720
To Boyle, that's the evening 
when we go. 

1581
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:06,680
Down the pub and we talk about 
those sort of things. 

1582
01:22:07,440 --> 01:22:09,840
They go on for hours of those 
conversations. 

1583
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,040
So you can look forward to that 
when you make it over. 

1584
01:22:12,640 --> 01:22:15,880
Yeah, for sure. 
Thanks a lot. 

1585
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:18,200
And. 
And you as well, thank you very 

1586
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:21,080
much, very enjoyable. 
Few hours for a Saturday 

1587
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:22,080
morning? 
Fantastic. 

1588
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:23,200
Absolutely. 
Yeah. 

1589
01:22:23,960 --> 01:22:25,320
Have a good day. 
And you too. 

1590
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:26,600
I'll see you later. 
Catch you soon. 

1591
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:27,480
See you then. 
Bye. 

1592
01:22:27,480 --> 01:22:28,040
Bye.