1
00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,560
I don't think I would have ever 
found out about you guys if it 

2
00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,200
wasn't for a meal and. 
Yes, Yup. 

3
00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,720
And Emil said he's going to some
event that's like an Oldhammer 

4
00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,240
event in Sydney. 
And I said really? 

5
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,480
I said, OK, what's can you tell 
me more information about? 

6
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,320
Oh yeah, you know, I'll send you
the link to their Discord. 

7
00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:25,760
I said OK, that's great. 
So that's how I found about. 

8
00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,520
This. 
Down under channel here, Yeah. 

9
00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,800
So Down under Empire is the 
actual official title, isn't it?

10
00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,040
That's the one, yeah. 
So. 

11
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,800
Maybe, maybe we can start here. 
Matt, how did this all? 

12
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,440
Well, we'll actually start with 
your origins first maybe and how

13
00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,120
maybe that was sort of lead into
how all this sort of became 

14
00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,120
about. 
So, OK, if you want to get us 

15
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,920
underway, Matt, tell us your 
tell us your origin stories, 

16
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:57,640
mate. 
So as a kid I was kind of always

17
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:04,760
into, you know, fantasy and 
sci-fi and you know, like many 

18
00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,880
of us grew up, you know, Conan 
movies, hey man, cartoons, 

19
00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:14,560
Transformers, all of that. 
And then the gaming stuff really

20
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,280
started with two things. 
For one year, it was either my 

21
00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:24,360
birthday or for Christmas, I got
the Space Crusade box set. 

22
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,880
So that that'll give us a, you 
know, that's kind of dating me a

23
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,560
little bit, but that's fine. 
Yeah. 

24
00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,800
So I got that. 
And it just, like, blew my mind.

25
00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,840
It was my first. 
I'd never seen miniatures 

26
00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,080
before. 
None of my friends at school 

27
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:45,480
were into it. 
And I was like, it was cool And 

28
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,280
like, played that for hours 
against friends, against my 

29
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:54,960
sister, like, and around that 
same time, I discovered that the

30
00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,560
primary school library had a 
stash of the fighting fantasy 

31
00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:04,480
books up on like some, some 
little shelf up the top. 

32
00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,280
And I saw the, the green spines 
on them and was like, what is 

33
00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:09,960
that? 
And I saw the, the covers with 

34
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,840
like orcs and witches and stuff.
And I was like, this is my 

35
00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:19,240
thing. 
So very quickly after that, my 

36
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,600
friends and I got into why I'm a
fantasy. 

37
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:29,320
It was around, you know, 4th, 
4th edition was still was still 

38
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,400
going. 
It was like end of 4th into the 

39
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,840
start of 5th. 
Yeah. 

40
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:40,880
And we're kind of, I've been 
hooked on and off since then, 

41
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,960
you know, like, like so many of 
us, you know, drop out for a bit

42
00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,120
in high school when you when it 
seems a little, you know, it's 

43
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,800
lowering your social standing or
your discover goals or whatever.

44
00:02:55,120 --> 00:03:00,520
And then get, you know, every 
couple of years I'd pop back in.

45
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,400
Yeah. 
And now it's like, it's my 

46
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:04,800
thing. 
It's. 

47
00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,320
My, that's great. 
That's wonderful. 

48
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,960
That's quite a common story, I 
suppose, about many of us. 

49
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,960
And we discovered it. 
We fell out of it, and then we 

50
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,960
came back to it like a long 
lost, long lost love. 

51
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,600
Love affair that I never die. 
Be like, we mean cigarettes, but

52
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,760
with cigarettes. 
I had to finally say, you know, 

53
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,720
sorry, my love. 
We'll have to pack you away. 

54
00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:29,720
Otherwise my wife's going to 
kill me next time. 

55
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:30,960
She. 
I have one of those in my mouth.

56
00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,560
So yeah. 
I've been through that as well. 

57
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,640
That's that's quite an 
achievement. 

58
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,440
Kicking nose. 
Yeah, yeah, that's like an extra

59
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,720
marital affair I can no longer 
have. 

60
00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,440
But so you're you're probably 
random. 

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00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,480
My vintage then, mate. 
If you discovered Space Crusade,

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00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:52,280
what age were you then? 
Like like 8 or 9, I think, 

63
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:53,800
right. 
Yeah. 

64
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:54,800
OK. 
Yeah, I was. 

65
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,320
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

66
00:03:58,400 --> 00:03:58,880
All right. 
Yeah. 

67
00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:00,480
OK, mate. 
Yeah. 

68
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,840
So that's great. 
Have you? 

69
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:04,680
Have you? 
Have you still got your copy of 

70
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,800
Space Crusade by chance? 
I don't, sadly. 

71
00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:12,120
I don't actually have a lot of 
the stuff that I originally 

72
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:13,680
owned. 
I've got a couple of models. 

73
00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,680
I would go through this thing. 
I don't know where Space Crusade

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00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:23,960
went lost in a in a move when I 
was a kid, I think. 

75
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:29,160
So that's definitely on the list
of like things to track down now

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00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,000
to like relive my childhood. 
But you know, it's one of those 

77
00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:38,880
things that's hard to find a 
complete copy for a reasonable 

78
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,840
price or a price that I'm 
willing to, to part with or to 

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00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:47,600
relive those memories. 
I, I, I, I think this is pretty 

80
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,400
common as well. 
I would, any time I fell out of 

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00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:54,840
the hobby, I'd, I'd give it away
to, I'd give away the minis to 

82
00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:59,160
friends that still played or I'd
sell them on, on marketplace or 

83
00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,800
whatever. 
And, and now looking back, I'm 

84
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,280
like pretty bummed I don't have 
that stuff anymore. 

85
00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:11,960
But I think like so many of us 
now that I'm that I'm older, 

86
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,200
have a little bit more 
disposable income, I've started 

87
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:20,680
grabbing not just the stuff that
I did have, but the the things 

88
00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,520
that I always wanted as well, 
which is a cool thing about 

89
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:29,440
being into this when you're when
you're older, yeah. 

90
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,480
That's right, you got that 
chance of reliving those old 

91
00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,280
lost loves that you wanted to 
have and now you can reclaim 

92
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,880
like the Holy Grail in some 
cases. 

93
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,920
And, and actually play the game 
as intended. 

94
00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,280
Like when we were kids, we you 
know, you'd read the rules and 

95
00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:50,440
you kind of know what you're 
doing with it. 

96
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,080
You're fudging it as you go. 
Like, yeah, the only bits we 

97
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:59,160
were really following were the 
the, the point values for 

98
00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,480
building our armies, the 
profiles for the units and then 

99
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,560
the the ticket and worn tables. 
Everything else was like 

100
00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:10,520
everyone had their own, you 
know, 12 year old interpretation

101
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,560
of how it all worked. 
Everyone was forgetting things. 

102
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,160
It was like as fun to be that 
like casual about it, but it's 

103
00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,800
cool like now doing it as 
intended to. 

104
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,480
Yes, yeah, we had to actually 
play it properly. 

105
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,120
Yeah, with the right miniatures,
better painted models. 

106
00:06:29,840 --> 00:06:34,640
Yes, yes. 
We know the rules, so it does 

107
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,600
help. 
It does help, that's for sure. 

108
00:06:36,840 --> 00:06:41,000
Yeah, I think, I think a lot of 
us maybe it was just like a, you

109
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:44,160
know, when I looked at 3rd 
edition Fantasy Battles rule 

110
00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,760
book, never really played it, 
but I just fell in love with the

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00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,880
imagery and that sort of 
cemented in my mind of, yeah, 

112
00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,280
this is what I really want to do
this, this really connects with 

113
00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:58,560
me. 
And it only happened until 4th 

114
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:03,120
edition, but I've never really 
got to really play that to its 

115
00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,440
full extent until now, you know 
what I mean? 

116
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:11,280
So yeah, I think that's yeah 
come full circle, as it were. 

117
00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,200
Yeah, lots of the lots of the 
artwork got recycled at least 

118
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:22,000
into the 4th edition raw books. 
So I remember seeing that, that 

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00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,880
some of that same artwork and 
just being like my mind was 

120
00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,680
blown by like the, the imagery 
of it all and the just the world

121
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:35,760
that they had. 
And then looking back now, 

122
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,040
that's, that's kind of the, the 
era that really speaks to me now

123
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,400
is that, you know, third edition
fantasy Rogue Trader 40K. 

124
00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,280
When, you know, as a kid I 
looked at that and like you'd 

125
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,040
see people with all the models 
and stuff that's that's not as 

126
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,320
cool as the new stuff. 
Like the details aren't as 

127
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,720
sharp, the models aren't as big.
But looking back now, it's like 

128
00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:06,080
that's, that's the charm of it. 
It's also so weird and, and odd 

129
00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,560
even even compared to other 
fantasy art and stuff. 

130
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,720
It's like got this little 
oddness to it that's that's 

131
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,560
really appealing now. 
Yeah, there is. 

132
00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:24,480
There's a certain style to that 
artwork and as you said, like 

133
00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,880
when you touched on about, you 
know, like maybe Tony Ackland, I

134
00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,640
think is the one of the 
prominent artists then of that 

135
00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,679
time. 
And then he saw and in thanks to

136
00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,840
Tom Evans too, with his film 
deck videos. 

137
00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,799
You get to see a lot of 
interviews with these great 

138
00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,560
people, luminaries of the of the
time of the hobby, like Adrian 

139
00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:48,760
Smith and and you know, I think 
they can sort of came into 

140
00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,720
prominence later. 
And then you saw them, you saw a

141
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,920
lot of their artwork feature a 
lot more heavily. 

142
00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,280
Adrian Smith, Wayne England. 
Steven Tappan. 

143
00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,200
That and that that was the era 
era for me was like the, the 

144
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:10,400
Adrian Smith, Wayne England, you
know, around, around Warhammer 

145
00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,440
Quest, which is just full of 
artwork from both of them. 

146
00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:21,800
And it's like so evocative, but 
it's very, very crisp. 

147
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:28,640
You know, the, the 3rd edition 
stuff looks, you'd almost want 

148
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,320
to say amateurish, but it's like
not in a disrespectful way. 

149
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:38,120
It's, it's like it's not as 
polished and that that makes it 

150
00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:39,920
cool. 
It's like the the rules, it's 

151
00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,160
like the miniatures. 
They're everything's a bit like 

152
00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,600
half done or overdone in the 
case of a rules and you're like 

153
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,960
that. 
That's so exciting. 

154
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,560
And so if what makes it fun? 
I I think maybe because of with 

155
00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:58,200
Tony, I mean, maybe he was like 
the lead artist in the studio 

156
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,640
and he had to pump out so much 
artwork like Gary Chalk with 

157
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,920
that second edition Talisman 
game. 

158
00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:06,880
He apparently had to do that in 
two weeks. 

159
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,080
And even within two weeks they 
were like, why is it taking you 

160
00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,520
so long to do this? 
You know, like they were sort of

161
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:15,680
kind of on his back about it, 
you know what I mean? 

162
00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:18,720
And if you look at the artwork 
on 2nd edition Talisman, wow. 

163
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,720
I mean, even the front cover of 
the 1st edition box is 

164
00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,120
beautiful. 
And the all the internal art, 

165
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,640
the board, the cards, the whole 
lot, he did all that within two 

166
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,640
weeks. 
So I think maybe it's just a 

167
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,720
sense of, you know, these guys 
weren't doing it within a 

168
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,560
leisurely time. 
It was like under pressure, you 

169
00:10:38,560 --> 00:10:40,640
know? 
Production. 

170
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,160
Very small budget, they weren't 
probably being paid very well. 

171
00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:48,640
It was kind of like doing this 
for the love, love of what 

172
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:54,120
you're doing kind of thing. 
And so I think like with Tony, I

173
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,880
think it probably would have 
been the same for him. 

174
00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,120
He had to pump out a load of 
artwork and in a very short 

175
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,880
amount of time. 
And I think maybe the other guys

176
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,560
later on maybe had more of a 
luxury of being able to spend 

177
00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:09,680
more time on their artwork, I 
don't know, Or they just had a 

178
00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,720
higher caliber of artists. 
But then you can look at a lot 

179
00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,200
of the 3rd edition stuff. 
They had really high caliber 

180
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,760
artists working for them then. 
They certainly, yeah. 

181
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:23,640
I think it's probably just a 
later, it was maybe a, a matter 

182
00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,080
of having a bigger team. 
So, you know, the, the, the 

183
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,320
workload is, is divided amongst 
everybody. 

184
00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:33,760
It's not just one guy doing a 
whole box. 

185
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,000
Like you just said, Gary Chalk 
had to do it. 

186
00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,360
One guy's doing the cover, one 
guy's doing internals. 

187
00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,160
And, and I think they were, like
I said with the 4th edition 

188
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:51,480
book, they had this backlog of 
art to, to recycle so that they 

189
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,480
could, you know, fill the 
layout. 

190
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,200
So maybe there was less pressure
because of that as well. 

191
00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,720
And I think what one of the 
unique things about that era 

192
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,280
too, is that there are so many 
artists that you just can't name

193
00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,560
them all. 
There were just so many people 

194
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,800
involved with all of that, you 
know, outsourced from various 

195
00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,400
different freelance artists. 
You had like internal artists. 

196
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,200
You had all types of people 
involved with that, you know, 

197
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,960
like Paul Bonner, of course, is 
one of the the gods and legends 

198
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,440
of of this time. 
Who else has loaded? 

199
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:28,280
There's Black specific artists 
who did all of the will have a 

200
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,760
fantasy role play, Martin 
McKenna. 

201
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,760
And there was another gentleman 
involved doing all of the, and I

202
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:41,200
forget his name, sorry, but all 
of the Blood Bowl and Dark 

203
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,920
Future artwork, you know, very 
stylized, comic book stylized 

204
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,200
kind of artwork. 
And it really fit that kind of 

205
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:48,760
genre. 
Yeah. 

206
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,200
But there were just so many 
people, so many people. 

207
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,520
Even Jess Good was involved with
doing the artwork. 

208
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:58,760
You know, Dave Andrews was doing
artwork, you name it. 

209
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,200
Like everyone had a hand in it, 
so. 

210
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,680
And and you know, John Blanche, 
obviously who gets, you know, 

211
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,480
everybody cares about John these
days, but that's when his art 

212
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:16,520
was weird. 
That was, it was kind of at the 

213
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:21,640
the peak of of like you were 
saying, like it had all this 

214
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:27,000
love put into it and then it was
all a bit everything. 

215
00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,720
You know, when you look at and 
Ian Miller too, if you look at 

216
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,440
the artwork, the thing that 
always struck me as a kid was 

217
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:39,160
like even the when there'd be 
picture of like a castle and 

218
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,440
people fighting in front of it. 
All the dimensions of the 

219
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:46,400
buildings are a bit off. 
And in some people's art, like 

220
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,040
in Ian Miller's art, obviously 
that's an intentional surrealism

221
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,040
thing. 
But in some of the other 

222
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,400
artists, it's just, it's just a 
style thing. 

223
00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:03,600
And it, it really made Warhammer
seem so much more interesting to

224
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:08,160
me than that, just on an art 
level than, say, comic books at 

225
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,800
the time or, or anything like 
that, or, or the covers of 

226
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,760
fantasy novels, which were like 
very crisp, very detailed. 

227
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,200
This had, yeah, like I said, it 
was all so strange. 

228
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,840
And it just, that's what really 
drew me in was like, what I've 

229
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:25,960
never seen anything that looks 
quite like that. 

230
00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:31,120
And, and, and these orcs look 
strange and, and there's this 

231
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:34,760
chaos stuff and all these kind 
different kinds of elves. 

232
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,280
It was like, there's a whole 
world here. 

233
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,760
And you you can tell the depth 
of it just from the art. 

234
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,320
Yeah, mate, it's, it's really a 
fascinating time because you 

235
00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,120
know, I'm just thinking now, 
just as you're talking Dave 

236
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,800
Gallagher, I mean, yes, he he, 
you know, he was probably more 

237
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:58,720
well known for his sort of 90s 
artwork, box cover art, all that

238
00:14:58,720 --> 00:14:59,680
kind of stuff. 
But he did. 

239
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,200
He did a lot of stuff during the
earlier times as well. 

240
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,760
Yeah, yeah. 
Early 90s. 

241
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,880
Late late 80s. 
Yeah. 

242
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,280
Yeah, there's this so many to, 
to to name. 

243
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,240
It's incredible when you think 
about it. 

244
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:16,880
It it is. 
It is. 

245
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:23,320
And yeah, it's, I think it's 
common for everybody that that 

246
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,720
the art is what gets you hooked 
first. 

247
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,160
Yeah. 
That that that cover painting of

248
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:36,200
the 4th edition fantasy box set 
with the Hiles and the orcs 

249
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,920
facing off against each other 
was like, it was the coolest 

250
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:46,000
thing I'd ever seen. 
It was, you know, everything I'd

251
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,360
read in all these these fantasy 
novels and stuff. 

252
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:52,280
Here it was. 
And then and then you go, oh, I 

253
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,360
open this box and I get to do 
that. 

254
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,880
I get to fight that out. 
This is amazing. 

255
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,240
Well, there you go, Jeff Taylor.
I'm looking up here at my wall. 

256
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,840
Jeff Taylor Renegades epic 
second edition supplement Jeff 

257
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:13,720
Taylor grudge drong Jeff Taylor 
type legions Jeff Taylor What? 

258
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,480
We have won a 4th edition box 
set. 

259
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:20,560
Jeff Taylor, I mean, that guy 
was just on a different level. 

260
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,240
I mean, I can only dream of 
having art of his on my wall. 

261
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,000
Like the original stuff. 
It'd be just incredible just to 

262
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,640
see it. 
I mean, just that. 

263
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,040
That's what I think, you know, 
talking about people who do this

264
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,200
not for a living, but for the 
love of it. 

265
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,840
Andy at the old Hammer, old 
Hammer artwork. 

266
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:47,080
Paige, I can't that's the actual
name of his channel. 

267
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,600
Sorry about that, mate. 
Sorry, Andy. 

268
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:54,040
He may listen to this, but he 
basically curates, he sells work

269
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,960
on behalf of the artists. 
He's got a really good rapport. 

270
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,000
I actually interviewed him 
during the pandemic. 

271
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:04,200
He's a really nice guy. 
And he he actually unveiled a as

272
00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:06,680
on the stream, I think was a 
stream or something or whatever.

273
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,680
I think we did. 
And at that time he he unboxed 

274
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,440
something he just received from 
Adrian Smith, and it was that 

275
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,839
skate and warlord artwork that 
yeah, man. 

276
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,720
And like, if you see, if you it 
it, it's nothing like when they 

277
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,599
reproduce it for publications. 
It's nothing like seeing it in 

278
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,760
real life, you know, like, and 
now sort through the screen. 

279
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,640
It looked better on the screen 
than seeing it, you know, 

280
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,920
obviously on in a book. 
But you know, imagine just 

281
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,440
seeing that in front of you 
would be just incredible. 

282
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,400
Yeah, yeah, it really would be. 
And, and that's what's so 

283
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:44,200
interesting about the artwork 
from that time is you for for 

284
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:49,120
people around our sort of era 
that that got in at that that 

285
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,800
stage, you can say something 
like, oh, it's that Scaven 

286
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,560
warlord artwork and it's there 
like there's everybody, 

287
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:01,400
everybody who I knew straight 
away, which PC meant everybody 

288
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,600
listening will know as well. 
And it's amazing that that this 

289
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:13,760
artwork from from twenty, 30-40 
years ago now, it's like is, is 

290
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,280
sort of stuck in our, our brains
and in our, our hearts. 

291
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,840
And it's so much a part of the 
connection to the hobby. 

292
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,400
See, this is This is why you 
asked me to send you some some 

293
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:25,960
questions about what we're going
to talk today. 

294
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:28,600
But we never talked about art. 
So this is what we. 

295
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,840
Did about this 10 minutes 
talking about it. 

296
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:35,960
That's awesome. 
Yeah, but that's what I like 

297
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:37,160
about it. 
I don't, I don't want to keep, I

298
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,480
don't want it structured. 
And I think, I think this 

299
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,320
organic conversations do work 
better and. 

300
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,040
Of course, of course. 
But that's good, yeah. 

301
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,920
Because, yeah, you know, we 
could, we could talk about art 

302
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,000
all day, I think. 
And it's just, it's not even, 

303
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,320
not even a visual medium so. 
No, no. 

304
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,840
But you know, as you say. 
Everybody who's listening, go 

305
00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,240
yeah, go grab your old books off
the off the shelf and have a 

306
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,880
flick through them while we're 
while we're yapping about 

307
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:10,000
artwork. 
That I am, I'm very envious of 

308
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,400
of Andy as he gets to have all 
these beautiful artworks sent 

309
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,280
him. 
He does it for no money, which 

310
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,200
is incredible. 
I mean, he does it out just out 

311
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,640
of the love of doing it and 
helping out all these guys and 

312
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,280
getting them the best money they
can get, which is really, you 

313
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,520
know, like I said, he's a really
nice guy. 

314
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,800
I have to get him on the podcast
or a live stream again at some 

315
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,400
point. 
We should do that. 

316
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,560
I know he's very busy and hard 
to get a hold of, but but yeah, 

317
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,800
he he works as kind of like the 
middleman between the artist and

318
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,600
this and the buyer. 
But what an? 

319
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:48,040
Incredible service to to offer 
not take any money for like. 

320
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,000
I know you see. 
You see every now and then 

321
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,240
somebody's, you know, collection
or estate pops up and it's being

322
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,240
sold by these big auction houses
and going for crazy money and 

323
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,240
they their Commission on those 
things would be insane. 

324
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,880
So for him to be doing it. 
Just to just to help out and to 

325
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,640
give back is incredible. 
What a sounds like a great guy. 

326
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:12,840
He's a really nice guy. 
Yeah. 

327
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,240
I need to get him. 
I need to get in touch with him 

328
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,360
and get him back on the the 
podcast for a live stream. 

329
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:19,760
Maybe that'll be nice or Splat 
and Adder, the live streams we 

330
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,000
do. 
We just wrapped up 1 today with 

331
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,800
with Ross at stone stone house, 
stone horse, not stone house. 

332
00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:29,400
Maybe he does live in a stone 
house, but a stone horse gaming 

333
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,720
really nice guy. 
And so that was really nice. 

334
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,880
But yeah, we'll do that. 
Yeah, yeah. 

335
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:41,760
Andy had links on his YouTube 
channel to things way back in 

336
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:48,280
the 80s where they went to Games
Workshop stores before. 

337
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,680
This is before the Brian Ansell 
era. 

338
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:54,840
This is like the the like prior 
to that. 

339
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,720
So who was that again? 
Ian Livingston and Steve 

340
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:03,400
Jackson, that kind of era. 
Well, it was just a retail store

341
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,400
selling everything. 
That's right. 

342
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,120
Yeah. 
It was really fascinating those 

343
00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,200
those links he had on YouTube 
where you could watch those 

344
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,840
interviews with people and the 
staff there and everything and 

345
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,680
talking about D&D and Quest and 
all these other role-playing 

346
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,080
games. 
And they'd sell these little 

347
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,280
minute, they sell the miniatures
that they had, I presume through

348
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,640
Citadel, where they had like 
just bays and bays and bays of 

349
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,160
all these trays. 
And people come and say, Oh 

350
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,120
yeah, I want, you know, like 4 
hobgoblins, you know, carrying 

351
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:33,800
Spears. 
And they say, oh, we're all out 

352
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,120
of hobgoblins, mate. 
Sorry. 

353
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,760
You know, And like, it's really 
funny. 

354
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,320
Yeah, it's really, it's really 
nice. 

355
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,240
But it's like a little window 
window back in time before my 

356
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,480
time in the hobby. 
You know, this is, this is 

357
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,480
before my, when I got in there. 
But yeah, I mean, some of those 

358
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,720
guys are still around. 
You know, it's just fascinating 

359
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,120
seeing how all that came into 
what it is now, which is 

360
00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:00,800
incredible, which kind of is 
going to allude to your, you 

361
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:04,720
know, you obviously got into the
hobby during the 90s when Space 

362
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,720
Crusade was out and your fond 
memories of that and, and 

363
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,280
finding the Finder. 
Was it Finder adventure? 

364
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,880
No Finder adventure. 
So there were the ones that I 

365
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,480
was into was the the Fighting 
Fantasy series, which was 

366
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:19,280
fighting. 
Fantasy. 

367
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,080
That's it. 
Steve Jackson and Ian Livingston

368
00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:24,680
wrote those as well. 
That's right. 

369
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,920
But like it all kind of neatly, 
you know, tied together. 

370
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:34,720
And then I was also pretty into 
the The Lone Wolf Game books, 

371
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,440
which were a similar thing, and 
Gary Chalk did all the art for 

372
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,120
those. 
He did. 

373
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,520
Yeah, so it's this he did. 
It was this strange little world

374
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,720
of all these connected pieces. 
I saw it. 

375
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:50,640
I saw an interview. 
Yeah, I saw an interview on 

376
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,880
YouTube with him. 
Some guy interviewed him for 

377
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,560
Lone Wolf and wow, the artwork 
he did for that was just 

378
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,440
incredible. 
Yeah, yeah, because it's it's 

379
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:05,880
own little world. 
Some of it's like it pretty, 

380
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,640
pretty strange even compared to 
the Warhammer art because it you

381
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,400
know, it's had it has its own 
creatures and stuff. 

382
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:18,160
But that, that his style was so 
was such a big part of the 

383
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,360
playing through those books as a
kid. 

384
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:22,760
You know, you're sitting there 
with your, with your two dice 

385
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:27,160
and your photocopied page from 
the book with all your stats on 

386
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,000
it and flicking the page. 
It's like, oh, I have to fight 

387
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,600
this monster and this one. 
And it was, yeah, it was cool. 

388
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:38,080
Now, Gary, Gary's a bit of a 
gamer too. 

389
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,720
Actually, he he made a game. 
Now, what's it called again? 

390
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,880
He made it like a board and chip
game is based on the baron's 

391
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,840
wall. 
He was very popular at the time,

392
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,560
I believe. 
And they had various different 

393
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,640
iterations of various different 
armies. 

394
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,400
You could play with it. 
But, you know, you think about, 

395
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:57,320
you think about. 
Yeah, I'm just trying to think 

396
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,160
of the name now, which is just, 
I can't think of it. 

397
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,520
I've never played it. 
OK. 

398
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,600
I know it's kind of well known 
within the, you know, that era 

399
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:12,240
of board games when it came out.
So if I remember it, I'll, I'll 

400
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,120
bring it up later in their 
conversation. 

401
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:19,560
But I think, I think they're 
thinking of remaking it through 

402
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,040
futsal. 
Futsal and games in the UKI 

403
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:24,800
think they're thinking about 
reprinting it. 

404
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,360
Because that would be very cool.
Yeah. 

405
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,160
I'd like to have a go at it. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

406
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:35,880
So what I, it seems like the 
nostalgia is kind of working its

407
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:41,480
way into modern gaming a bit. 
Now you've got, well, like, you 

408
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:48,040
know, Games Workshop are diving 
back into their, the lore of, of

409
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,280
things and reviving, you know, 
factions that they haven't dealt

410
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:56,120
with for, for a long time. 
You know that it's we're in the 

411
00:24:56,120 --> 00:25:00,360
middle of a new era of Blood 
Bowl, for example. 

412
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,600
So I'm trying to find the the 
name of this game. 

413
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,280
It's going to, it's going to 
haunt me now. 

414
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,720
Yeah, yeah. 
I still can't find it so I'm 

415
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,600
sure someone later will scream 
at me and say what it is, but I 

416
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,080
can't remember now anyhow. 
Yeah, listeners jump in in the 

417
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,400
discord. 
If you know yeah what what the 

418
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,240
game is, let us know. 
I'm I'm very interested to check

419
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,040
it out too. 
Yeah, it's, it's bugging me now 

420
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,120
that I can't think of the name. 
Anyhow, we'll have to have to 

421
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:33,080
think about it. 
So basically, yeah. 

422
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,200
Because like you said, there's a
new Blood Bowl and I know that 

423
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,920
Jervis Johnson's now working 
with Mantic Games, working on a 

424
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,480
new, not Guild Ball. 
What was the name for the? 

425
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,400
I don't know. 
I don't know what it's called 

426
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,280
for Mantic Games, but he's 
making a new. 

427
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,280
Game they had they had one as 
well. 

428
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,280
Yeah. 
And then and then you've got 

429
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,720
things like the the the gene 
Steeler cults are back in in the

430
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,000
new form in in 40 Ki know that's
a couple of years old now, but 

431
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:05,880
it was it was interesting to see
that yes, re envision the of the

432
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,320
look of them. 
Yeah, it's interesting how it's 

433
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,000
sort of evolved over the time 
and, and you get a lot of 

434
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:16,440
things, like a lot of throwbacks
coming through again in, yeah, 

435
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,640
like I say, new iterations of 
them, new, new, new people 

436
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,240
envisioning how they look. 
A lot of like Blanketsku, 

437
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,240
Blanketsku, Blanketsku, 
Blanketsku. 

438
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,800
I discovered a new name, 
Blanketsu kind of style to a lot

439
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,760
of the design work. 
A lot of that. 

440
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,840
Like I, I quite like the new 
demons and stuff for all the 

441
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,760
play Marines and stuff for Games
Workshop. 

442
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,280
They look more like the the 
Adrian Smith artwork nowadays 

443
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,360
than they did back in the time, 
you know what I mean? 

444
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:52,520
Yes, yeah, that that the what I 
was going to say about like sort

445
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:59,120
of staying in the hobby was I 
played chaos all through the the

446
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:04,960
sort of Warhammer fantasy eras 
and they never looked as like as

447
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:09,000
as disgusting as like the the 
old hammer, the 3rd edition 

448
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,480
stuff did. 
And then it kind of lost that 

449
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,560
along the way and it and it was 
the same with the chaos marines 

450
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,680
too. 
They, they got less weird and 

451
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,800
it's cool saying that like, you 
know, the chaos stuff in Age of 

452
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:28,440
Sigma, like the corn stuff looks
like the way it showed and the, 

453
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,800
the, the noggle stuff is all 
rotting and disgusting and, and 

454
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,720
they've done the same in 40K. 
It's cool that we're getting 

455
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,120
back to that where things look 
more like the artwork. 

456
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,520
Yes, and I'll, I'll give a shout
out to Nightmare Games. 

457
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,120
I've just painted up a 
Commission for a mate of mine 

458
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,720
doing a lot of corn Renegades 
and that kind of thing. 

459
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,320
And yeah, those, those minis 
look very much like the early 

460
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,880
artwork of the Loss of the 
Damned, that kind of thing. 

461
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,840
So, you know, kudos to them. 
I think they've done a really 

462
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:10,840
good job in representing, you 
know, old school, old Hammer 40K

463
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,480
with a lot of their designs that
Diego does at Nightmare Games. 

464
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:15,560
Then he does. 
Yeah, there's a. 

465
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:22,400
There's a few sculptors that 
have popped up doing that old 

466
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,840
hammer style, which is great. 
I've got AI just got the not 

467
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,600
that long ago the minis from a 
Kickstarter I backed from 

468
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:38,160
Creative Sculpt Studio and it 
was a a set of old Hammer 

469
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:43,480
inspired basement. 
But every model is completely 

470
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,560
different. 
You know, once got a bird head, 

471
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,800
there's a there's an eel guy in 
there. 

472
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,320
There's a a guy that has no 
head. 

473
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,160
It's the the faces on the body, 
which is like such a classic old

474
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,120
Hammer chaos kind of vibe. 
It's cool. 

475
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,920
Yeah. 
So it's they're they're worth 

476
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,880
checking out too. 
I've never heard of them. 

477
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:05,920
Yeah, never heard. 
Of them, the the minis are 

478
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,720
fantastic. 
They're right. 

479
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,640
We've just got them on the table
now painting them up and they're

480
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,880
very cool. 
Cool, OK, well that that's good.

481
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,840
I mean it's like a meal, like 
when I when I taught the meal 

482
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,960
and send messages on Discord or 
whatever, he's showing me 

483
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,400
miniatures he's got which are 
kind of a mix between yeah, the 

484
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,040
original and new produced models
as well. 

485
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,960
So people have yeah. 
And I know that there are people

486
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,040
out there. 
I've seen Instagram stuff that 

487
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,320
people are released, I think it 
was, I can't remember the name 

488
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,120
of the creator, but they did 
like chaos tools. 

489
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,520
Oh yes, I know the ones you 
mean. 

490
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:47,200
I can't can't remember who that 
is, but it's they're they're 

491
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,760
very are they The die hard has 
some, I think. 

492
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,760
Yeah, Die Hard do some as well. 
That's Tim Prowl's company. 

493
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,040
And it was another guy that I I 
think it's something, something 

494
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,720
Fleet North Flakes or something 
like that on Instagram. 

495
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,720
And he did a whole range of 
designs of sort of old hammer 

496
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,960
aesthetic cast orbs that I 
think, I believe Diego did it 

497
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,520
from Nightmare Games. 
He launched the cast starter for

498
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,760
him on his behalf and everything
Cult Coltie got to paint a lot 

499
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,720
of them and he did a really nice
job. 

500
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,200
Yeah, he does. 
He he, yeah, his painting really

501
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:32,080
suits that era, I think. 
That that that 3rd edition. 

502
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:37,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Pre pre read. 

503
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:43,800
Yes, the pre read error. 
Yeah, so he does a great job on 

504
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,200
those. 
That's another guy I need to get

505
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,720
in contact actually and and get 
him on the podcast at some 

506
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,200
point. 
It would be very interesting. 

507
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:58,480
He's he's just got the an old 
hammer themed like magazine Red 

508
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,360
Rod and it's Yeah, it's cool. 
Yeah. 

509
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,000
From what I from what I've said,
very interesting. 

510
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,480
Yeah. 
I have, I've seen little snips 

511
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,400
of that looks very good as well.
So it's probably good timing to 

512
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,000
get him on the podcast actually 
to talk about that and maybe do 

513
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,720
A and something we need to do 
with ours as well. 

514
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,800
Our fans, they never really got 
a video or anything like that. 

515
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,760
I don't. 
And we should do that as well at

516
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:28,560
some point because we're still 
working on issue #4 I think it's

517
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:29,880
4. 
OK. 

518
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,360
So we're still slowly getting 
that done. 

519
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,320
So thanks to Ang Hell and the 
team. 

520
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:39,040
And we've got Adrian Wood AD 
Wood doing the proofreading, 

521
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,600
which is amazing. 
So we've got, we've got X. 

522
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:46,640
Pedigree. 
Yeah, X studio staff working on 

523
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,440
doing it, which is lovely of 
those guys to do that. 

524
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,000
So yeah, we're slowly chipping 
away, article by article. 

525
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,720
OK, fantastic. 
So I'll keep an eye out. 

526
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,840
Yeah, I, I totally respect that.
If people can put down, put a 

527
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,840
fancy together, that's a lot of 
work. 

528
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,200
So huge respect to those guys 
who can do that for sure. 

529
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,320
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's cool that
there's, there's so many of 

530
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,840
those around these days, you 
know, with, you know, obviously 

531
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,480
the technology for doing the, 
the layout and stuff. 

532
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,040
Everybody can do that now 
themselves. 

533
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:26,240
So it's everyone has access to 
the tools, we just have to learn

534
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,920
how to use them. 
Exactly, exactly. 

535
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,880
Can't do that either. 
Yeah. 

536
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,960
But it's like it's cool that 
like you can have an idea and 

537
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,760
then and then push it through 
without not really needing that 

538
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,560
that bigger a budget. 
It's just time and effort and 

539
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,440
love Which? 
Yes. 

540
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,440
Which is not, which is the one 
thing that's you know, time is 

541
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,160
in short supply, but in this 
same the the love is definitely 

542
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,440
there across all these different
facets of it. 

543
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,520
Yeah, it's funny because earlier
this year I was talking with 

544
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:06,600
Angel about launching the the 
4th issue of Here I Have a 

545
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,000
fanzine as a potential 
Kickstarter. 

546
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:10,720
Now, I've never done Kickstarter
of my life. 

547
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:12,840
I have no idea about the 
insurance and outs of it. 

548
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,960
We sort of talked about it and 
thank God I never did it because

549
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,760
a lot of people would have been,
well, I mean it, I think it 

550
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,080
would have been understandable 
that they could see, OK, things 

551
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,960
are happening and things are 
being made, but the final 

552
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,440
product may be years in the 
making. 

553
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,240
And I'm glad we didn't do, we 
didn't go down that route just 

554
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,440
to get that initial funding to 
get the programs, to get to pay 

555
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,560
people for art, to do that kind 
of stuff. 

556
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,520
I'm glad we didn't go down that 
route. 

557
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:45,080
It would have been quite scary. 
I've been very stressful and you

558
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,640
know. 
It would be yeah, it would be 

559
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,440
stressful being responsible for 
it. 

560
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,000
Yeah, I've backed Kickstarters 
that have taken a really long 

561
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,560
time to fulfill and even that is
stressful. 

562
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,760
You're like, no update this 
month, Come on, guys, what's 

563
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,160
what's happening? 
But the being on the other side 

564
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,639
of it and being responsible for 
it would be would be stressful. 

565
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,400
It's a it's a cool platform. 
It's another one of those things

566
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:18,320
that it's great that it exists 
to let these, you know, smaller 

567
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,920
creators do stuff at a real 
professional level. 

568
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,880
Just takes a while sometimes. 
That's right. 

569
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:31,960
And not everyone has the 
patience for managing that on 

570
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,679
either side, you know, as a 
creator or as a customer. 

571
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:38,000
Yep, that's very true, very 
true. 

572
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,679
So we love to see those kind of,
you know, those efforts from 

573
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,000
people in the community who can 
actually produce something like 

574
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,120
that for other people's 
enjoyment. 

575
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:49,120
It's really good. 
But anyhow, we'll just go for a 

576
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,239
quick ad break and when we come 
back, we're going to talk more 

577
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:56,120
about the Down Under Empire and 
how that all started and all 

578
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,880
that kind of things. 
I'll be back in just a moment. 

579
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:02,560
Our sponsor, Black Arrow Minis 
is a reputable reseller of 

580
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:06,440
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581
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,800
covering the classic Perry 
Empire designs, the Marauder 

582
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,640
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583
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,480
iconic High Elves. 
So head over to their main 

584
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,760
website to browse through their 
collection today at 

585
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:29,640
www.blackarrowminis.com. 
Now before we get started, I did

586
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,000
remember the name of the board 
game. 

587
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,800
Oh, incredible. 
What was it? 

588
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:40,640
Cry Havoc. 
OK, that's very interesting. 

589
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,720
I've never even heard of. 
I'll have to check it out. 

590
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,960
Yeah, probably, probably made 
before you were born, Matt, I 

591
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:53,040
would say. 
Well, you've been a very young 

592
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,400
Matt at the time. 
Yeah. 

593
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,520
But yeah, it's, it's funny how 
the mind works that way. 

594
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,000
It's like I, I kind of imagine 
it like I'm trying to think of 

595
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,280
something and then there's like 
a little old man in my mind with

596
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,400
this huge library and he has to 
walk around trying to find in my

597
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,560
archives where exactly it was 
stored away. 

598
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,680
And he finds it and he goes, ah,
it's Cry Havoc. 

599
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,400
I think it's sort of the bubbles
to the surface. 

600
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,640
So if you haven't seen it, 
haven't, there's not much 

601
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:25,480
information on it on YouTube, 
but I think Board game Geek got 

602
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,280
a board game geek. 
Search up Cry Havoc and you can 

603
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,520
find out all about it. 
But that's a game designed by 

604
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,320
Gary Chalk, I believe. 
Very. 

605
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,480
Cool. 
Yeah. 

606
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,680
I'll check it out. 
Yeah, you might fight you. 

607
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,400
You may be really lucky. 
You might find someone in your 

608
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,840
group has an actual game of it. 
You can actually play it. 

609
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:45,200
Yeah. 
Who? 

610
00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:46,480
Who knows? 
Who knows, mate? 

611
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,040
Yeah. 
Let's talk about your gaming 

612
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,720
group. 
Yes. 

613
00:36:49,720 --> 00:36:51,840
OK. 
How did all this start, mate, 

614
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,880
with all this down under? 
Empire I. 

615
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:00,200
I can only really talk to my 
where my involvement started 

616
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,760
from it. 
So basically I'll jump back a 

617
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,240
little little bit and sort of 
just tell a tale. 

618
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:17,280
But during lockdowns, I think 
lots of people, it's pretty 

619
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,600
common amongst sort of at least 
our group of like that's when 

620
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,200
lots of people came back to the 
hobby. 

621
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:27,200
You know, you're, you're stuck 
at home for for months on end in

622
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,480
some cases with, with not a lot 
to do. 

623
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,000
So I feel like, yeah, lots of 
people started getting back into

624
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,600
it. 
They were connecting with other 

625
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,560
people on the Internet and, and 
discovering things that they 

626
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,680
hadn't seen before. 
And this all kind of around that

627
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:51,240
same time, there was like this 
explosion of, of they, they call

628
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:54,360
it the old school renaissance of
RPGs, right? 

629
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,440
So going back and referencing 
early Dungeons and Dragons vibes

630
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,160
and mechanics. 
And so there was that which was 

631
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:09,720
sort of setting this, this sort 
of look and there was a lot of 

632
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,680
there were also all these indie 
skirmish miniatures games being 

633
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,000
developed. 
You know, people were like, it 

634
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:24,600
seemed like everybody wanted to 
do more games with less prep. 

635
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,320
So instead of having to paint 
hundreds of minis for a 2000 

636
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,880
point game, you paint 5. 
That's your little war band and 

637
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,240
you, you play, you know, lots of
them had solo play modes too 

638
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:44,120
for, for people who were, you 
know, during lockdown or, or 

639
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,840
just didn't have a group to 
connect to. 

640
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,640
So there was all these, all 
these things happening that 

641
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:54,440
everybody got interested in. 
And a lot of it was also 

642
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,760
connected to the, the, the ink 
28 scene. 

643
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,680
The Inquisitor 28, which had 
been going for much longer was 

644
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:08,520
basically people had adopted the
Inquisitor game that Games 

645
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,600
Workshop made, but instead of 
playing it with the, the the big

646
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:17,000
54 mil models, they were playing
it with just the normal, just 28

647
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,240
standard sized ones. 
And that was there was this 

648
00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:27,680
whole element of, of kid bashing
and role play and, and the black

649
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,480
Shih Tzu art style that you 
mentioned before was a huge 

650
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,240
influence on all of it. 
So it was like this, this thing 

651
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:42,600
of playing small scale narrative
miniatures games that sort of 

652
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:49,360
brought everybody together. 
And the the connecting point for

653
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:54,520
a lot of us was actually the 
hive scum podcast, which is a 

654
00:39:54,600 --> 00:40:00,440
bunch of guys from from the US 
into this indie scene. 

655
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:07,560
And they had a discord and which
is the in rust we trust discord.

656
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:14,760
Amazing place, very cool crew. 
But they're all, lots of them 

657
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,400
are all in the same area in the 
States. 

658
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,440
They're all from that New 
England area. 

659
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,640
And I think a lot of us here in 
Australia were, were jealous of 

660
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:28,480
that connection of of that they 
were just connected by the, the 

661
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,160
interest which brought us all 
together. 

662
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,840
But but by by they were 
geographically close and could 

663
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:38,520
interact a bit more. 
So a couple of the guys started 

664
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:45,160
that Jackson started the, the, 
the discord there to give us all

665
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,880
a place to, to go. 
And I heard about it from the, 

666
00:40:49,240 --> 00:40:53,240
from this other discord in Russ 
we trust and ended up over there

667
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:55,480
and the, the community is 
incredible. 

668
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,480
Just a lovely bunch of people 
who are, you know, there's this 

669
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,360
amazing, there's people 
developing amazing games. 

670
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:11,680
One of the guys, Stu has written
3 like little indie games that 

671
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:16,480
are like what one of them's it's
called untitled pirate game and 

672
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:22,440
it's it's just a pirate crews 
fighting it out, amazing artists

673
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:27,440
sculpting their own miniatures 
and at the same time as being 

674
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:32,080
into all these newer indie 
skirmish games, everybody a lots

675
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,680
of people are coming from the Oh
yeah, I used I played games 

676
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,880
Workshop games. 
I'm I'm still buying them minis.

677
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,440
I'm still, you know, in that 
world. 

678
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:47,240
But lots of us aren't playing 
Games Workshop games or that's 

679
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:50,520
not the primary gaming that 
we're doing. 

680
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,240
Yeah. 
So it's it's pretty interesting.

681
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,880
Little saying it's very fun. 
Oh good mate, that's great. 

682
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,640
I've not I've not heard of them 
but I do love the name. 

683
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,680
In Rust we trust. 
That's a great yes. 

684
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:09,400
Yes, and it's the yeah, the The 
Hive Scum podcast, It's the, 

685
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,360
it's the same guy, Yeah. 
OK mate, I'll have to go and 

686
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,240
check that out. 
Yeah, I feel, I feel like such 

687
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:16,640
an oldie now. 
I'm not in with the new cool 

688
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,880
guys like you guys or all these 
new crews out there doing. 

689
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,520
I've heard, I've heard of Ink 
28, I've heard of it, but I, I 

690
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,720
don't think I've ever seen 
anything about it. 

691
00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:31,000
And I I to be honest, I've never
played Inquisitor as a game 

692
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,160
anyway. 
Neither. 

693
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:38,280
Neither have I and most people 
haven't most people in the most 

694
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:41,520
people in the ink 28 or indie 
scene or whatever you want to 

695
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,960
call it. 
Even the people that were really

696
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:49,240
championing it. 
It was like Inquisitor was more 

697
00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:53,360
the the narrative element than 
the rule set. 

698
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,040
Lots of those games tended to be
like, oh, you want to, you want 

699
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:02,440
to do that for up on AD 6. 
You know, you the, the story 

700
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:08,920
you're telling on the table and 
the, the, the narrative 

701
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,760
motivation to, to keep bash a 
little war band and and tell a 

702
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,800
story with it. 
That's the the main thing, not 

703
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,040
the not whatever rules you're 
using. 

704
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,880
So it's a, it's a really 
interesting scene to be a part 

705
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:29,960
of that has this kind of like 
weird little underground online 

706
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,560
history to it. 
But yeah, it's cool. 

707
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:35,160
Oh, OK. 
I know. 

708
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,480
I know. 
There's been some that's sort of

709
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,560
come up and to the surface and 
they've been quite popular. 

710
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,520
There's another one that I'm 
trying to think of. 

711
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,040
It involves turn up 28. 
That's it. 

712
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:54,800
Turn up 28. 
So yes, that's that's been 

713
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,720
adopted by by our little scene 
as well. 

714
00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:04,560
We had, we did a little turn up 
one day event last year tacked 

715
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,440
on to another. 
That's what that's what we tend 

716
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,440
to do. 
We we like, we sneak into the 

717
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:15,720
background of these other 
tournament events and wrangle a 

718
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:17,960
couple of tables in a backroom 
somewhere. 

719
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:27,160
Yeah, Turnip is turnip is cool. 
It's how how would I explain it 

720
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:28,720
for people that haven't come 
across it? 

721
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:36,320
It's it's kind of a very 
straightforward Napoleonic era 

722
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,720
war game, very cool, very fast 
rule set. 

723
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:48,760
But the the the the background, 
the lore of it is the world's 

724
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:54,000
been taken over by a giant root 
vegetable and everybody is in 

725
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,560
some way infected with this. 
So you have everything's got all

726
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,200
the minis have grass tough stuck
to them growing out of their 

727
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:07,320
backs and and everything's got 
little vegetables sculpted on 

728
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,880
them. 
And the the art style is very 

729
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:17,400
weird and very cool. 
And it's it's yeah, it's just 

730
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:21,520
people kicking each other to 
death in the mud is how the the 

731
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,000
creator describes it. 
But it's OK. 

732
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,440
It's it's a fun excuse to to, 
you know, grab a couple of boxes

733
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:35,960
of Kerry miniatures historicals 
and chop them up and, and cover 

734
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:40,160
them in, in mud and yeah, have a
little game with them. 

735
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:44,040
It's yeah. 
I'd never had never played, but 

736
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,880
I'd I'd made some minis for it. 
And then someone on the Discord,

737
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,920
June was like, Oh yeah, we'll 
we'll do a we'll do an event. 

738
00:45:54,920 --> 00:46:01,160
And the game was great. 
It's yeah, and quick too. 

739
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,040
I think it was like 4 or five 
games in a in a single day. 

740
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,360
Which is, yeah. 
That's pretty cool, very quick. 

741
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,840
And that that's the cool thing 
about the these, these indie 

742
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,800
skirmish or even turnips, not 
quite a skirmish game. 

743
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,840
It's more a sort of, you know, 
couple of squads on the table. 

744
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,560
They they play quick. 
So when you get a group together

745
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:31,360
to play in a day, you actually 
get to play against a bunch of 

746
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:36,440
people in one day. 
And it's, it really adds that 

747
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,480
social aspect to it of like, Oh,
I got to, you know, not only did

748
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:44,560
I get to see everybody from the,
from the discord say hi, but 

749
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,520
I've, I got five games in, you 
know, it's a, it's, it's cool. 

750
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:55,120
It's a, it, it makes the the 
hang much more fun than or it's 

751
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,120
just a different sort of thing 
than than getting together with 

752
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:03,040
a mate and playing a, a game of 
3rd or 4th edition fantasy where

753
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:06,200
you you're going to be playing 
for most of the day on the one 

754
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,800
game. 
Looking through books, no doubt,

755
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,840
you know, looking through pages 
in the books, trying to work out

756
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,560
rules and stuff. 
Yeah, that's, that's a fair 

757
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,280
point. 
Yeah. 

758
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:20,000
So getting back to the Down 
Under Empire now, you recently 

759
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:22,080
had a games event there in 
Sydney. 

760
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:24,240
Is that right? 
We did. 

761
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:31,520
We did a Realm of Chaos event, 
which is, which is back to this 

762
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:37,840
this thing of all of us had 
missed that third edition era. 

763
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,280
We were all just a bit too 
young. 

764
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:46,720
But looking back, we were all 
so, so, so into the, the art and

765
00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:52,320
the, the concept of these huge 
books with all these D100 tables

766
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:57,120
to, to make your, your mutations
and to put, put your war band 

767
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,800
together. 
And, and we've been chatting 

768
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:04,800
about it for a while. 
So this time last year we did 

769
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:11,160
our first event attached to the,
the Cancon event in Canberra, 

770
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,040
but we called it can't con 
because we couldn't get, we 

771
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:21,200
couldn't get the, the guys that 
organized it couldn't get free 

772
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:27,520
play table space at Cancon. 
So they booked the library down 

773
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,040
the road. 
There was a little like meeting 

774
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:32,000
room there. 
So we played there instead. 

775
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,920
So at that first event, people 
were talking about Realm of 

776
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:44,160
Chaos and how cool it would be. 
And the idea sort of sat in the 

777
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,920
background and was just, I 
couldn't shake the idea of doing

778
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,960
it. 
So I, I, I jumped into a, a 

779
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:56,760
group message with a couple of 
the guys one day and said, I, I 

780
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:01,600
think I'm going to do it. 
Who, who, who's are there enough

781
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,920
of us even interested? 
You know, if a couple of those 

782
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,600
guys that I messaged were 
interested, then I knew that 

783
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:13,160
more there'd be enough people 
once it was out into the wider 

784
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:17,360
discord group, there'd be enough
people to, to jump in. 

785
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:25,320
And I was very grateful that 
Moss, one of our guys, he's he 

786
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,800
goes by restful and Chrome on 
the discord. 

787
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,720
He he jumped in and was like, 
I'd love to help you with this. 

788
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,240
I've got ideas. 
We can we can sort of workshop 

789
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:41,720
how to make this work together. 
And we went for it and it ended 

790
00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:49,120
up being a good couple of months
of work to to make sense of all 

791
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,720
of it. 
Those those third edition books 

792
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:56,760
are dense. 
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely,

793
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:57,600
mate. 
Yeah. 

794
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,400
It's you need a lot of time in 
your hands, not only just to 

795
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,960
play the game, but to actually 
read the rules and make sure you

796
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,440
understand everything correctly 
and all that kind of thing. 

797
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,880
And they're fascinating at the 
same time. 

798
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,320
Yeah. 
That they they really are. 

799
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:15,840
And that's, I wanted to sort of 
give people that with the event,

800
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:21,920
give people that experience 
without expecting everybody to, 

801
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,560
you know, track down the PDFs 
and read hundreds of pages. 

802
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:33,400
So what we ended up doing was 
going through and basically 

803
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:39,960
creating a player pack that took
all of the rules out and just 

804
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,680
had the process for creating the
war band. 

805
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:47,960
So it was just the role tables 
and modified them where where 

806
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:53,880
needed so the people could could
grab that from us and roll and 

807
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,720
know what they had to make for 
the event. 

808
00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:00,040
Because, you know, you want to 
give everyone was wanting to to 

809
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,800
keep bash minis and paint them 
up and really put some effort 

810
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:08,000
love into it. 
So we we wanted to give them a 

811
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:12,800
few months lead time with that. 
You know, that's just so that 

812
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:17,880
everybody could really commit to
it and put some love into into 

813
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,320
the war bands they were 
creating. 

814
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,680
And then that also bought us 
some time to decide how the 

815
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,440
rules were going to work. 
Yeah, I bet, my dear, I bet. 

816
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,200
Yeah. 
And what what we ended up doing 

817
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:37,040
was doing like a, a stripped 
down players packed up the 

818
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,520
street. 
It ended up being just 2-2 pages

819
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:44,720
of basically dot points for 
every phase of the game. 

820
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:49,520
So simple, really simplified 
movement, really simplified 

821
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,560
shooting. 
Like basically just it was more 

822
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,120
or less me sitting at the 
computer going, well, I've 

823
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,160
played a lot of Warhammer 
Fantasy. 

824
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,240
How does that work? 
Type, type, type, type, type. 

825
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:01,280
Take out the bits that seem too 
hard. 

826
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,960
Because while there might be 
people like myself who had 

827
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,920
played a lot, there's also a 
couple of guys coming to the 

828
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,600
event that, that were younger 
and they've never played 

829
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:19,160
Warhammer Fantasy at all. 
Their only view, yeah, point of 

830
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:22,640
reference for that world is like
some of them have played War Cry

831
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:27,400
or, or, you know, Age of Sigma, 
these, these newer Games 

832
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,320
Workshop games. 
So expecting them to learn the 

833
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,520
third edition rules from 40 
years ago and just seem like a 

834
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,840
huge hurdle. 
And I didn't want that getting 

835
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:43,960
in the way of people's fun. 
So I I took everything out 

836
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,400
basically. 
It just made it as as 

837
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,840
straightforward as I could. 
But back to that, almost back to

838
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:55,320
how we would play as kids of 
like, Oh yeah, you guy can move 

839
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:56,320
forward inches. 
Cool it. 

840
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,040
You just measure 4 inches and 
away you go. 

841
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:05,360
You know. 
Yeah, yeah, it's it was, it was 

842
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:09,440
even that process was fun of 
like reading through those old 

843
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,480
books and how am I going to make
that work? 

844
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,000
And. 
Yeah, that's a lot of work, but 

845
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,240
it was pretty rewarding. 
That war bands is it played on 

846
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:22,560
A6 by 4A, 4x4, 2 by 2, three by 
three? 

847
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,840
We did. 
We did 2 by twos because. 

848
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,800
I'm glad you said that, not 6 by
4. 

849
00:53:29,720 --> 00:53:31,520
No, no, that was. 
That would just. 

850
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,800
Well, partly the smaller table 
size was the the. 

851
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:42,080
So Moz and I had decided early 
on that we wouldn't be playing 

852
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,760
on the day. 
Then. 

853
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:49,920
Our role was basically going to 
be to to play as the chaos gods 

854
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,920
for the day. 
We were going to be GMs for, for

855
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:58,120
everybody's games, or just 
wander around and reward this 

856
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:02,680
player and pester this player 
and, and try and balance things 

857
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:04,840
out when they got out of 
control. 

858
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:08,440
And because the rules were so 
simple, they were, every game 

859
00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,920
had a, these little things that 
would pop up of like, oh, this 

860
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,240
weird thing has occurred and 
there's 2 pages of rules. 

861
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:19,040
So how do we resolve that? 
And we'd be able to lead them 

862
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:23,280
through that. 
And, and in doing that, not 

863
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:29,560
having to commit to making minis
for myself for the games I 

864
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:35,280
wanted to make themed terrain. 
So 2 by 2 was partly so that the

865
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,800
games would be quicker because 
the movement distance is 

866
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,320
smaller, but also to keep the 
scope of how much terrain I had 

867
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,120
to make for the event a little a
little more reasonable. 

868
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,920
Yeah, now that that sounds good.
I I do like the smaller table 

869
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:54,160
size games with skirmish games, 
especially because, yeah, 6 by 4

870
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:57,040
can take a long time before you 
actually get to meet anybody 

871
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,080
across the other side of the 
table. 

872
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,760
So it just makes sense. 
And like you say, for terrain as

873
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:03,520
well. 
Yeah, totally makes sense, mate.

874
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,600
That's great. 
Just a quick shout out to a 

875
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,320
couple of guys in Japan here who
actually also have done this. 

876
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,120
They've done the oh, cool cast 
war band stuff. 

877
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:15,320
Yeah, but they did it by the 
book. 

878
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,320
They played it by the original 
rules. 

879
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,280
So that's off to them. 
That's, that's Dave. 

880
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,080
Dave. 
Yeah, that's a big commitment. 

881
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:28,160
But I know that James, one of 
the mates here in Japan, he said

882
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:32,520
it's pretty clunky. 
So I think maybe your, your 

883
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,760
method, your method methodology,
there is probably a better way 

884
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,120
of doing modernizing it, 
streamlining it, making it fun, 

885
00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:44,760
making it very intuitive and 
just sort of fast to play and 

886
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,440
enjoyable. 
I think that's what counts now 

887
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:48,640
you know what I mean? 
Yeah. 

888
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:51,560
For a one day event like this 
where you're bringing people to 

889
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,240
get there were people from all 
over the country. 

890
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,080
One of the guys, Dan flew in 
from Perth, couple of guys came 

891
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,640
up from Melbourne, Jackson came 
down from Brisbane. 

892
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,920
Really like the the yeah, our 
our little community is pretty 

893
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:11,680
motivated to to show up in in 
person if you give them enough 

894
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,520
notice. 
So I for a one day thing like 

895
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:20,800
that, you, it's got to be, it's 
got to be easy in terms of 

896
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:23,680
playing on the table. 
And then I, I think if you were 

897
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:28,080
doing like a, a campaign with 
some, some mates that lived near

898
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,280
you and you can get games in 
every week, you could probably 

899
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:36,920
do the, the full on 3rd edition 
rules with the the two realm of 

900
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:39,880
chaos books, like by the book. 
I think that would be pretty 

901
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:46,720
rewarding experience with a, 
with a more local group, I 

902
00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:51,360
think, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, for sure, mate, for 

903
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:55,080
sure. 
For something like this, it was,

904
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:58,120
it was just, it just would have 
been too much expectation on the

905
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:02,600
players, I feel like. 
Now the Denon Empire, is it, is 

906
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,840
it centralized within Sydney or 
do you have pockets of player 

907
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,400
groups around the country? 
It is. 

908
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,600
There's pockets of people around
the country. 

909
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:17,040
There's only, there's only a 
couple of us sort of more active

910
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:22,280
members of the of the group from
Sydney and there's a few guys in

911
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:26,200
Newcastle, couple of guys in 
Brisbane, couple of guys in 

912
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:31,040
Perth and then yeah, a few more 
guys in Melbourne. 

913
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:37,840
They have a group that meets in 
person every every week or so in

914
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,760
in Melbourne. 
So they've sort of like brought 

915
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:45,000
in people from their group to to
the Discord. 

916
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:47,720
Oh, that's good. 
I'm glad that that's kind of 

917
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:51,480
like a shared thing you can do 
through Discord. 

918
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,600
You can keep up with events and 
when it's going to be held, 

919
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:55,720
what's going to be played. 
They can make arrangements to 

920
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,480
get there if they can, if it's 
feasible for them. 

921
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:00,600
So that's, that's really good to
see. 

922
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,400
And yeah, long may that 
continue, mate. 

923
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,760
So and that's been great to have
you on the podcast. 

924
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,480
I really appreciate your time 
today giving it to myself and to

925
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:14,280
the listeners and I hope that we
can form some connections there 

926
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:16,720
with our Aussie gamers, our 
Aussie Aussie old hammers. 

927
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,320
And absolutely if they want to 
get in touch, I'll leave a link 

928
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:25,440
here for the discord and maybe a
e-mail contact or whatever. 

929
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:29,560
However you want to be able to 
be able to reach you and they 

930
00:58:29,560 --> 00:58:32,400
can get in contact with there. 
And, and let's see, we can get a

931
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:36,960
few more Chaos War bands out of 
the closet and under the tail, 

932
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,480
mate. 
That would be awesome. 

933
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,280
Yeah, fantastic. 
Thank you very much for having 

934
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,080
me on. 
It was it was fun having a chat 

935
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:46,960
about all this stuff. 
But thank you, and thanks, 

936
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,400
thanks to Emil again for making 
this connection happen. 

937
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,880
And it's just, yeah, like I 
said, I was really surprised to 

938
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,800
see it. 
Great to see the Discord 

939
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,560
flourishing there with lots of 
people there actively, you know,

940
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:00,600
doing some hobby, doing 
different types of games and 

941
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,520
that kind of thing. 
We always encourage that and 

942
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,400
it's always nice to make those 
connections. 

943
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,320
So it's nice to meet you again 
today, Matt. 

944
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:09,640
Thank you very much. 
Enjoy the rest of your day, 

945
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:11,800
mate. 
And I'll, I'll keep I'll keep 

946
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:14,720
watching what's happening on 
your Discord there to see what 

947
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:19,360
you guys are up to. 
And I'll be definitely be sure 

948
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:22,600
to mention that in our Discord 
or Facebook groups or whatever 

949
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:26,120
you, if there's something 
happening around the town that 

950
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,560
people might be interested in 
coming down, even just to say 

951
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:30,320
hello and just see what's 
happening. 

952
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:32,680
Yeah, yeah, that, that would be 
great. 

953
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,560
Thanks mate. 
OK mate, you take care and we'll

954
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:37,840
catch you again next time. 
All right, see you mate. 

955
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:50,680
Bye. 
Thank you for listening to the 

956
00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:54,760
Chronic Men Podcast as we 
celebrate five years since its 

957
00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,440
launch on the 5th of May in 
2020, Bringing you the voices 

958
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:01,360
from the community with their 
personal stories and the hobby 

959
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,840
we all love. 
If you would like to help 

960
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,040
support the podcast and YouTube 
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961
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:10,000
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962
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,560
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963
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:16,200
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964
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:21,000
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965
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:26,560
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966
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:27,240
Podcast.