1 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:10,920 Hello everybody. Thank you very much for tuning 2 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:15,320 in to another episode or another show of the Chronic Man podcast. 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:23,200 And I am very happy to host this one because it is the eve of 4 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:29,120 Bring Out Your Lead in the UK, which is much anticipated show 5 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:34,160 for many people that enjoy tabletop war gaming and 6 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:39,320 especially those that enjoy the older editions of Warhammer, 7 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,200 whether it be third edition or Rogue Trader 40K. 8 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,200 But then there are like 4th edition, 5th edition. 9 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,720 I would imagine there are lots of different games being played 10 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,640 there, even even current games. So it's really a celebration of 11 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,720 people getting together, hanging out with their friends and 12 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:03,720 enjoying four days of gaming. So I'm just on their website now 13 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,600 for Bring Out Your Lead. They do have an official website 14 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,480 that you can go to to book your table or book an event on the 15 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,080 day. And of course, there was some 16 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,080 speculation that Bring Out Lead would be at a different venue 17 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:24,160 because of the late and sad passing of Brian Ansell. 18 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,320 Of course, the the director behind Foundry Miniatures and 19 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,520 Brian and Diane, his wife hosted these events every year for 20 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,120 everybody. But of course, it was sort of up 21 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,040 in the air as to what was happening because I know they 22 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,920 were selling their their premises there and moving on. 23 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:48,280 So it was sort of unknown as to whether they would continue the 24 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,920 event at the same location or go to a new event. 25 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,040 So the address this year, it says the Carriage court, Stoke 26 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,800 Hall, Church Lane, East Stoke in Newark knots. 27 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:03,800 So whether that's the exact same location or not, I'm thinking it 28 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:10,160 is, but it's got here, a timer says quick paint something. 29 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,680 It's got how many days, how many hours, how many minutes and 30 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,680 seconds remaining. So it's got 7 hours, 17 minutes 31 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,440 and 36 seconds as of this recording. 32 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,640 So when people are waking up in the UK, it's time to head down, 33 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:27,160 head on down to the carriage court in Stoke Hall, break out 34 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,800 your miniatures that you've been painting through the year and 35 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:32,640 enjoy. Like I said, a celebration of 36 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:37,080 gaming with all your friends and groups that you've met up online 37 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,120 with and playing some fantastic old Hammer. 38 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,600 So I hope people enjoy it. I hope people have a safe 39 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,160 journey down there. I know people, you know, either 40 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,200 joining other people and getting a lift down there. 41 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,200 I know that Matthew from Bedroom Battlefield and Doctor Spork are 42 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,120 heading down together. Whether they're sharing the 43 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,360 drive from Scotland down to Stoke Hall, I'm not sure. 44 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,120 But yeah, if you are travelling a long distance, please just 45 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:16,560 take your time, take it easy. And, and because I want you to 46 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,040 get there, to get there safely, that's most important. 47 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,360 So that runs through from tomorrow, Friday, 2nd of August 48 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,600 to Sunday 4th of August. So I really look forward to any, 49 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,840 the, the photos on our Discord here at the Chronic Command. 50 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,040 And I'm sure Bedroom Battlefield's Discord will have 51 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,800 a host of photos there because I know a lot of the guys from that 52 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,640 community is heading down there as well. 53 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:46,200 And maybe Jeff from Outbound Studios on his YouTube channel 54 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,200 will do some some coverage of the event as well. 55 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:54,360 I always look forward to Jeff's videos based on his experiences 56 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:58,480 of each time he visits bring out your lead and what what he saw 57 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,240 and and what he got to enjoy on the day. 58 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,120 So Speaking of Matthew of Bedroom Battlefields, he 59 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,640 recently had a question posted up on his wonderful podcast. 60 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:14,120 If You don't know what Bedroom Battlefields is, I will leave a 61 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:18,680 link in the show notes here that you can click on to go to his 62 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,120 podcast and check out the wonderful content that Matthew 63 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,560 provides for us. And he, he has a question each 64 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:31,720 month that people go to his website, they click on a link to 65 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:33,800 record their message in response. 66 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,760 And then he will, you know, collate all those messages 67 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,320 together to four one podcast. And it's a really interesting 68 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:46,480 and really fun way for his listeners to interact with him 69 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,480 and with the community as a whole. 70 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,240 So I really enjoy those. I participated in a couple of 71 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,160 those so far. And unfortunately, I was just 72 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,880 too late in getting my submission in for July, which is 73 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,400 a real shame. So I thought I said to Matthew 74 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,560 what I'll do. I'll, I'll mention it here in 75 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:08,040 our podcast today about my my answers. 76 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:14,120 And we'll also get to hear later during the show the new question 77 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,840 that Matthew proposes to his listeners for August. 78 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:21,000 So you get a good chance because this is early August now to get 79 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,080 your submission in. And I really want to see these 80 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,920 segments grow with loads of voices from all people from 81 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,560 around the world giving their responses. 82 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,120 It's really fun. I really enjoy listening to 83 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,080 their answers. They're great questions that 84 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,880 Matthew poses for them and you get some really interesting, 85 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,920 like I said, answers from from his listeners. 86 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:49,120 So his question for July was, what are your favorite hobby 87 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,160 channels like? What things do you listen to? 88 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,560 What things do you watch as you do your hobby or what you know, 89 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:58,840 what people inspire you to paint or to game and that kind of 90 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:01,200 thing. So we talked about like, you 91 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:06,120 know, podcasts, Youtubers, bloggers, people generally in 92 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:07,640 the community. So I thought I'd just break it 93 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,600 down to podcasts and YouTube channels as they're, they're the 94 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:15,880 two mediums I tend to listen to and watch the most. 95 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,880 And it's a tough, it's a tough selection, even though I've sort 96 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,640 of narrowed it down to the the main ones I listen to. 97 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,480 That's not to say that there are ones that I haven't mentioned 98 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,760 which I do get a glance in or do get a listen in on occasionally, 99 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,440 but these ones that I've selected are the most frequently 100 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,480 listened to or frequently updated. 101 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,240 So I started off with number one with my podcast selection with 102 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,760 Battle Chat. Now Battle Chat, maybe a podcast 103 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,320 people are not really familiar with. 104 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,400 It's hosted by a legendary wargamer, Henry Hyde. 105 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,560 He's a really good bloke. I've had him on the podcast a 106 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:57,840 couple of times. Well, I've done it. 107 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,080 I've done it with him on his podcast with battle Chat and he 108 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,920 came on my kind of command for an interview with me and it was 109 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,280 a really nice chance to basically sit with a, a luminary 110 00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:11,720 in the hobby. Henry's been doing this for a 111 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,720 very long time. Been a war gamer since the, I 112 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,640 think the 60s or 70s or so. He loves the horse and musket 113 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,320 era of war gaming. I actually don't enjoy that 114 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,480 period of war gaming at all. It, it bores me to tears. 115 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,720 So it was just kind of a strange match that I thought Henry's 116 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,640 podcast would be just talking about this topic. 117 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:38,360 But in actual fact, it's so varied and he brings in so many 118 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,440 different guests of various different backgrounds in war 119 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:46,520 gaming, old and new. Henry himself is a fantasy gamer 120 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,000 as well. He he's not strictly a 121 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:52,120 historical gamer. He does enjoy fantasy 122 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,520 role-playing like with DND, and he also enjoys things like 123 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,080 advanced here request. He's a great, he's a advocate, 124 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,440 massive advocate for Skaven. So he's a big Skaven collector. 125 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:10,200 And, and yeah, he loves all aspects of the hobby, whether 126 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,560 it's fantasy or historical. And he, he's of course a, an 127 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,680 editor for his own magazine, which sadly ended, but the 128 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,040 patron that he runs is kind of a continuation of that. 129 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,320 And now he's an author. He he's written several books 130 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,760 that you can buy all about war gaming. 131 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,400 And yeah, he's just a great advocate for the hobby and he 132 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:39,400 has a great way of presenting his, his particular podcast and 133 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,080 the guests he has on are fascinating. 134 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,960 So I've listened to over 100 of these now, these interviews that 135 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,880 Henry's provided for us and they're just being wonderful. 136 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,920 So if you haven't heard a battle chat, please go and check it 137 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:54,760 out. It was exclusive to his Patreon, 138 00:08:54,760 --> 00:09:00,960 but now he's provided all those interviews now on regular 139 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,960 podcasting platforms, so anybody can access those, which is 140 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,480 excellent. So Bedroom Battlefields is my 141 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:08,800 number two because that's my number two. 142 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:14,240 Listen to it's it's of often released an episode usually once 143 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,160 a week. I think Matthew pumps out once a 144 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,280 week, which is amazing, always interesting guests again, 145 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:23,280 talking about different types or different aspects of the hobby. 146 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,040 So it's not related just to tabletop war gaming. 147 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:30,520 Maybe it's it has some kind of elements of tabletop war gaming, 148 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,480 but sometimes not. So it's it's always interesting 149 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,520 to hear people's different views, perspectives, whether 150 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,360 they be game creators, whether there's be people from his 151 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,720 community that he's brought on to talk about aspect of gaming 152 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,880 or painting and the hobby generally. 153 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:50,640 So yeah, always enjoy that. I love how Matthew presents 154 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,320 things. Again, it's just it's the 155 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,600 personality, it's the person behind the podcast, which I 156 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,200 enjoy and have great admiration for. 157 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,640 So yeah, Bedroom Battlefields is another one, a great listen and 158 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:08,800 Oldhammer Fiction podcast. Lewis runs that one, and I 159 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:15,480 really enjoy the enormous amount of effort he puts into reading 160 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,200 verbatim, like word for word out of these books all the way back 161 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,240 from the Wahama Black Library, the original Black Library. 162 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:28,400 So think of, you know, like Bill King stories, which, you know, 163 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:34,000 Gottrick and Felix and countless other ones. 164 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,680 So there's just too many to mention. 165 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:39,640 So basically he just goes through and picks out picks out 166 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,840 a book that he really enjoys the story to reads it. 167 00:10:43,560 --> 00:10:49,440 And then at the end he gives some kind of in depth analysis 168 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,600 or some interesting facts about the writer or about the story 169 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,520 itself. I really enjoy those a lot. 170 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:02,120 And his five hour megathon of the last last boil. 171 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,040 He he released the Wah the Orcs podcast and that was that was 172 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,080 over five hours. Well, that got me through. 173 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:10,560 A lot of. Because I paint full time 174 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,160 obviously now and I've been doing that now for a year and a 175 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,560 half, thankfully. So that that got me through a 176 00:11:17,560 --> 00:11:20,200 lot of painting time just sitting listening to while the 177 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,080 orcs. It was really good as as a 178 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,720 person who doesn't get a lot of time to read books and 179 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,600 physically, then I get to listen to them now thanks to Lewis and 180 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,800 his wonderful podcast, because he brings those stories to life. 181 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,040 You know, he's got a, he's a professional voice actor and 182 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,480 yeah, he really does a fantastic job in conveying those stories 183 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,720 to his audience. So they're my top three podcasts 184 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,120 I listen to. Of course, there are other ones 185 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,880 I listen to, like Time Between Times with Owen Staton, even 186 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,200 though that's not really strictly a hobby podcast, but I 187 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,280 do enjoy listening to that as I paint. 188 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:02,160 And Owen's got a wonderful way of delivering stories to his 189 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,280 listeners. OK, now for YouTube channels, 190 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,960 now there's quite a few because I do enjoy YouTube as a medium 191 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:15,800 that I absorb all this hobby content each week from various 192 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:22,120 different creators out there. And, and I'm not going to put 193 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,720 these in strict order. I'm just going to say like, as 194 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,440 in, you know, even though number one, I've put down mini sods now 195 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:33,600 mini sods, edit mini sods. He does a wonderful job in in 196 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:39,120 presenting second edition 40K, one of the most popular channels 197 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,080 out there. I would say, if not the most 198 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,600 popular channel out there. He is in an incredible way of 199 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,320 again, he's, he's got a great voice that conveys it, conveys 200 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,480 what he's saying the the stories he's telling. 201 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,040 He's telling during the game play so well. 202 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,840 And then he's then the cinematography, all the editing 203 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,840 that goes in behind that is just great. 204 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,960 Like, yeah. And I really enjoy what Ed does 205 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:09,560 and I'm happy to be one of his patrons to support him in his 206 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:12,320 video creations. And he's doing a Tyranid attack 207 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,920 series at the moment. So I'm really looking forward to 208 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,640 that. And long may that continue long, 209 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,800 long may that keep going with with Ed and what he's doing. 210 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,320 So he's doing fantastic things with a hobby out there. 211 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,600 Then my second place, well, the second YouTube channel I want to 212 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,800 mention is Bring in Battle. That's Richard and Jason and 213 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,560 they play second edition 40K, but they also play a few other 214 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:43,680 games, which I have to admit, I don't actually watch. 215 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:45,920 I only watch their second edition content. 216 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,720 The other games are like Bolt Action and what's the other one 217 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,200 called? Kings of War. 218 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,160 I think the other one is a fantasy 1. 219 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:00,200 They've got one page rules and maybe some other ones. 220 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,520 I I honestly don't watch those. They're, they're something I'm 221 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,760 just not all that interested in personally, but I know maybe 222 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:07,920 some of the other hobbyists out there might be. 223 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,760 So go and check out Bring in Battle because there's second 224 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,400 edition 40K coverage for me is, is fantastic. 225 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,360 There's two old friends playing 40K second edition. 226 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,520 And yeah, really good, really good videos, great banter. 227 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,840 And yeah, I'll definitely support those guys as much as 228 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,680 possible. Now, Dice Hammer, my Bavarian 229 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:35,720 friends over in Germany, they also have a channel that does a 230 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,000 lot of second edition 40K content. 231 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,000 Also 8th edition fantasy, which again, I'm not so interested in. 232 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,080 I'm just interested in this second edition stuff. 233 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,800 As you can probably tell, I'm sort of my interest centred on 234 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,760 centred on these guys creating stuff based on the 90s games 235 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,360 because they're not really well covered or not covered on mass 236 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,160 as it were on YouTube or any other mediums. 237 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,920 So any chance that any creator could create something based on 238 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,120 the 90s games, I'm definitely interested in in watching. 239 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:10,360 So yeah. Go and check out. 240 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:14,080 Dice Hammer because they do some excellent second edition 40K 241 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,520 battle reports and I really enjoy again they're 2 old 242 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,840 friends, been playing since the 90s and they've got all the 243 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,640 armies for all the different factions in the 40K second 244 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:30,080 edition catalogue and they just go through doing various 245 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,640 different scenarios and different games. 246 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,880 I really enjoy that amble of diminishes. 247 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,480 Now that's deeds. Really good creator, does some 248 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,640 fantastic painting videos. He's the only painting video 249 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,080 person I watch and I'm interested in watching his 250 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,760 videos. For one, he's got a great way of 251 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:55,520 presenting them and also I enjoy looking at all those 90s models 252 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,680 that he paints because he just, he centers everything around the 253 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,160 1990s from Games Workshop. So a lot of Citadel Marauder 254 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,920 miniatures you see painted there and he does a fantastic job. 255 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,880 He's got a great following and yeah, I'm just really happy for 256 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,120 dates that it's really taken off for him and long may that 257 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:17,040 continue for him. Next one, solo Oldhammer gaming. 258 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,440 Now this is a chap from Australia, I think in Sydney, 259 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,320 and he does a lot of 3rd edition fantasy battles content. 260 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:32,160 So either showcasing miniatures that he's bought and game 261 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,760 systems that he's bought or actually playing out solo. 262 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,640 As it states, solo alt hammer solo games with him playing 263 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,800 third edition fantasy because he doesn't have many opponents 264 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,160 where he is to play some of these older games, but he did a 265 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,680 big siege battle with some with the with the two forces. 266 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,960 There's a there's a dwarf and goblin force in the back of the 267 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,680 book of the siege book and he actually gets to play that out. 268 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,880 So that was really cool and I enjoy what he brings to his 269 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,640 channel. And yes, I'm an avid watcher of 270 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,160 his content. Second edition war gaming, 271 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:15,520 again, it's a great channel, excellently edited, always 272 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,240 interesting opponents and armies they bring to the table. 273 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,240 So he does a lot of second edition, primarily second 274 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,720 edition 40K, but also does the space fleet games, which I 275 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,960 really enjoy those a lot. Actually, I actually enjoy those 276 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:35,320 more than the 2nd edition gaming. 277 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:37,120 Basically, it's a really interesting game. 278 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:40,280 Never got to play it. So I really enjoy his videos 279 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,240 covering those scenarios when he gets to play it. 280 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:49,040 Now a new channel, 5th Hammer, that's one of my friends and 281 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,880 patrons here, David in the US, he start up a fifth hammer 282 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,120 channel and that's like what it says. 283 00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:58,680 It's 5th edition Warhammer. He's only got a few videos up 284 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:03,560 already, but I've I've really enjoyed the solo hammering that 285 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,480 he's been doing there playing 5th edition games in his games 286 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,320 room and he's got another video coming up soon. 287 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,680 So please go and check out his channel and subscribe to that 288 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,560 and wait for new content to drop. 289 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:22,800 And I've also got Stompy 51 now Stompy had on the the the 290 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:28,160 podcast too not so long ago and I'm really happy to have found 291 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:29,880 his channel. He does bring out some really 292 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,240 nice hobby stuff. He grabs something out of his 293 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:38,960 out of his attic or, or garage or whatever and and shows these 294 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,400 in his videos. So I think the recent one he had 295 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,960 this massive ratskin necromander gang he found in storage. 296 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,600 So that was really interesting to see. 297 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,040 Yeah, but that's just nice to watch. 298 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,880 And he does some coverage of some of the older books and and 299 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,840 things like that. So if you haven't already seen 300 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,800 Sobby 51's channel, go and check it out. 301 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,880 So they're, they're really the, the basis of the content that I 302 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,160 consume regularly on a weekly basis. 303 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,080 And I want to give my thanks to all those creators out there 304 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,560 that are doing a lot of the hard yards. 305 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,360 I know how hard it is to keep it up and to to keep the momentum 306 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:20,680 going. So if you have a chance, go and 307 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,880 check out their channels, go and check out their podcasts. 308 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,600 Leave them a message. In most cases on podcast, you 309 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:32,720 can leave a a message there, feedback, just give them a 310 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,960 thumbs up, give them us, give them a 5 star rating and give 311 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,800 them a nice message to say thank you very much for all the hard 312 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,640 work and great content you're putting out. 313 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,880 Just so they know it's a really nice thing to get sometimes. 314 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,720 And I've been doing that more often now. 315 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,880 So and of course there's many, many more, there's many, many 316 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,840 more Youtubers out there, but I like to follow the follow the 317 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,600 smaller channels. I just find them just. 318 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,920 More naturally engaging there's there's less Polish, there's 319 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,800 just more raw footage in there which I which I enjoy I quite 320 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,040 like that it feels like I'm I'm sort of sitting around the table 321 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:13,920 watching them play in most cases. 322 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,960 So apart from that, I've been on a hero quest binge and I've 323 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,240 almost finished my starter set painting all the starter set 324 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,680 miniatures. So it's it's probably a good 325 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,520 timing actually with bring out your lead coming up now this 326 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,760 weekend and this weekend I'm still going to I'm going to 327 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,680 continue painting my here request models and I hope to 328 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,120 finish them. So I've got another what's that 329 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:47,680 6 goblins 3 for Mia and I've got the sorcerer, the the evil 330 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,200 sorcerer guy to do and that's it. 331 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,680 And I've got it ready and done and and finished. 332 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,160 So I'm really happy about that because that'd be like a small 333 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,480 accomplishment that I have then fulfilled. 334 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,520 It was kind of part of three Milton Brant, Milton Bradley 335 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,160 games that I was going to complete this year. 336 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,840 But obviously things got away from me. 337 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,480 We're now in August. I'm haven't finished my Hue 338 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,320 request set. I was going to do Space Crusade 339 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:19,840 and the the Battle Master set as well, but I don't think I'm 340 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,880 going to accomplish that within by by December, but we'll see 341 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,680 how we go. Space Crusaders next after your 342 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,840 request. It's a game I've never played 343 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:34,080 before and I've been really curious about it. 344 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:41,080 So again, like with her request, I'm running Discord games of 345 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:46,160 that with, with some patrons and friends in the US later this 346 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,240 this month. And I'll put in some, I'll make 347 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,800 some videos of that, like overviews, videos of each of our 348 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,000 quests. And I'll add those to my patron 349 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,120 exclusive videos up there so you can follow along in our peerless 350 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:03,360 quest as the adventurers, our four brave adventurers delve 351 00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:08,520 deep into the into the dungeons. Yeah, for more loot and for 352 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,480 prestige, I would say, and honour. 353 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,600 So yeah, really enjoying that and it's nice for me to get some 354 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,960 time into just to paint some models for myself, which is not 355 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,120 always the case. But today we've got old man 356 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:27,080 Phil. The interview that we tried to 357 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,520 do, like this is the third time we've finally got together and 358 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,080 had time to do it together. I had to cancel a couple of 359 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,920 times just due to life staff here. 360 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:43,000 So I'm glad Phil's been very patient with me and, and it was 361 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,000 really good because we had a really long chat. 362 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,480 He sent me some questions beforehand that or things that 363 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,760 he'd like to sort of just get in his mind as to what he wanted to 364 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,800 talk about today, which I'm really glad he did because it 365 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,320 was nice to have. I, I usually don't structure our 366 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,760 interviews. Usually it's just, it's just 367 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,360 free form. There's no preset questions, 368 00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,480 anything like that. I just let our guests talk and 369 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,560 then we just have it like a very organic conversation. 370 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,720 But in this case, yeah, Phil said he'd send me some 371 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,240 questions, which I'm glad he did. 372 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,840 And we went through those as best we could. 373 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,640 And I hope you enjoy listening to an interview today. 374 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,560 So thank you very much, guys. Enjoy the bring out LED coverage 375 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,960 this weekend. And I hope for all those people 376 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,360 going there. Please get there safely and 377 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,800 enjoy your weekend. Thanks, guys. 378 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:40,040 Enjoy the interview. All right, Phil, well, thanks 379 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,560 mate for, for making this happen. 380 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,000 It's been, it's been long in the coming this third time lucky as 381 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,000 they say. And you're just back fresh from 382 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,280 holidays from Wales, which is nice to hear. 383 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,680 How was your trip mate? Yeah, it was good, actually. 384 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,040 Thanks, Josh. Thanks for having me on as well. 385 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,600 I just wanted to say, you know, it's been a bit been a bit of a 386 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,360 crazy time, hasn't they? We keep missing each other, like 387 00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:05,000 ships are passing the night. But yeah, it just took a few 388 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,680 days, only a week, just to go away from Wales and decompress 389 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,360 and have a bit of time away from a computer screen and work and 390 00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:15,480 stuff, you know? Nice mate. 391 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,080 I would I would have told Owen Stayton. 392 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,560 You're coming here to give you a full tour of Wales, mate, while 393 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,800 you're there. Oh, you know who's down there. 394 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:25,560 Owen Stayton. Oh, do I? 395 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,840 Do I know where we're? Not yeah, you know, Yeah, he's 396 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,880 the voice of a lot of the well, he he did the he did the Dwarf 397 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:35,960 Deep Dive podcast and he did another interview with me 398 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,680 recently about the Time Between Times podcast that he runs and 399 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:44,720 he he tells tales of folklore from Wales or around the British 400 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,120 Isles. Ah, right. 401 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,720 OK, I think I've heard one of those. 402 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,080 Yeah, I just didn't. It didn't quite connect with my 403 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,600 brain for a second there. I've always said, Darwin, you 404 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,840 should run like some kind of he'd be perfect at it as doing a 405 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,320 a tour in the holidays, you know, like Geek nation tours 406 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:04,720 does. You know, he does that kind of 407 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,560 thing. He takes people to place in the 408 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,640 world and tells them all about the history and any sort of 409 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,160 significant places in the location where they're 410 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,680 travelling to. If Owen did that and he can tell 411 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,840 tales and, and stories about the places they're visiting to give 412 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:24,840 sort of like a mythic that kind of feel to the, to the areas 413 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,440 where they're going to that has like this really cool sort of 414 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,960 mythological history or what have you in folklore. 415 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,200 I reckon that'd be a really good package for people to get into. 416 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,080 So next time if I know someone that's going to Wales, I'll have 417 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,640 to tell, Oh, I'm up front so he can, he can lead them the way, 418 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,160 show them all the way. Yeah, it should be. 419 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,240 It would be really good actually whilst I was there and did 420 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,960 actually just look up a model shop while I was in there just 421 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,400 to see, I thought oh I wonder if they have any warhammers and 422 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,520 they did bought myself a little painting handle. 423 00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,080 What kind of? Never had, I've never bought one 424 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,160 before, I always make my own. So I thought, yeah, well push 425 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,480 the boat out mate £7. Yeah. 426 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,280 Well, if you like champagne, then you're going to have lots 427 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,240 of lots of nice little handles to with that, with some blue 428 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,920 tack. We call blue tag Bostic, blue 429 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:14,320 tag. Yeah, yeah. 430 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,080 Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, No, I'm not much of A 431 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,880 champagne guy, to be honest, to be fair. 432 00:26:19,120 --> 00:26:20,120 Me too, mate. I don't care. 433 00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:22,600 I'll just say like, I just find someone who is and then I just, 434 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,880 I've collected those over the years and then cut them in half 435 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,120 and use those. And I think I had so many I had 436 00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:29,760 to throw them out, some of them out. 437 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,320 But I've got my best ones here. But yeah, I know what you mean. 438 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,960 But look, apart apart from that, I'm glad you had a good restful 439 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,280 week away in Wales. And but you're here to talk 440 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,720 about how you discovered the hobby mate. 441 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,240 So let's lead into there and maybe talk about your bit about 442 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,480 yourself and where you're from and how you got into the hobby 443 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:49,400 mate. Yeah, sure, sure. 444 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,960 OK, so anyway, I'm Phil and most people I guess in the hobby 445 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,800 might know me from my Instagram handle because I paint quite a 446 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,880 bit and put a few videos out there and it's old man paints. 447 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:10,000 I have been in the hobby since the mid 90s. 448 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:18,480 I'd probably say about maybe no no sorry mid 80s but 86 but 86 I 449 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,400 reckon. I got into it and it was quite 450 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:27,400 by accident because I had no interest in Dungeons and Dragons 451 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,960 or Warhammer, per Southeast. But some of my mates from my 452 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,040 hometown, you know, we were just mooching around, as you do when 453 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,400 you're about 14 or 15 and nothing to do. 454 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,840 And one of them had discovered Dungeons and Dragons and said, 455 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:44,800 do you want to come and play at my house? 456 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,920 So we thought, yeah, yeah, it sounds cool. 457 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,000 We've heard of it, you know, we've seen the film, seen the 458 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,600 film ET, and we thought, yeah, that'd be cool. 459 00:27:53,320 --> 00:28:00,200 So we went up there and my mate Egg, he, he, he was the Dungeon 460 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,200 Master. And all I can really remember 461 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,600 about it, because obviously some years ago now, you know, 1986 or 462 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,040 something like that was a lot of arguments across the table 463 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,800 between the Dungeon Master and the players. 464 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,760 And quite frankly, that turned me off it a bit. 465 00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:25,200 But one thing I really did love about it was the little 466 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,440 miniatures. We, I remember when we first 467 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:32,320 started, we were each handed a miniature and told, look, this 468 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,520 is your avatar in the game and keep it safe or whatever. 469 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:39,520 You can paint it up or whatever. And this is your character 470 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,440 through the game, which I thought was totally ace. 471 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:49,560 I totally, I wasn't a complete novice to painting of miniatures 472 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:55,160 because prior to that I'd been into, you know, like Tamia 473 00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:00,000 models, like a Japanese, you see, 132 scale. 474 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,760 I always loved painting those with humble miniatures and 475 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,280 making little dioramas. But when I saw this little lead 476 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:13,040 figure, and I think mine was, I think it was Boromia from 477 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,840 perhaps the 2nd edition figures of Lord of the Rings. 478 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,840 And I just thought this figure was just fantastic and it's 479 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:28,120 completely was entranced by it. And the next weekend we, we sort 480 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,640 of went to, we said, oh, should we go to Sheffield, which is the 481 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,400 nearest city in England to where we live or where we grew up? 482 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,240 And we'll go to the Games Workshop, which is again, only a 483 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,480 shop I'd ever walked past. And when we first went in there, 484 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,840 I was just blown away. You know, this fantastic cabinet 485 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,240 is full of figures that were all painted up beautifully. 486 00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:59,080 And I, I must have spent about an hour looking at that. 487 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:04,600 And then there's this, this wall of blister packs with different 488 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,720 figures in so many different types of figures of all 489 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,600 different creatures and stuff like that. 490 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,520 And I mean, looking back at it now as as a 50 year old, I think 491 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,400 why didn't I buy more stuff then? 492 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,240 Because it was so cheap. But obviously prices were 493 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,600 relative and it was, you know, that stuff was expensive back 494 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,160 then. But yeah, that's how I got into 495 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,280 it. Nice mate. 496 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,320 That's a great story and I'm really glad you did manage to go 497 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,280 there to the Games Workshop to discover. 498 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,480 Yeah, to get discover more miniatures. 499 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:42,440 And did you get you deeper into the hobby? 500 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,080 Because that's. Yeah, yeah. 501 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,920 Exactly. Buying buying the miniatures 502 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,880 week on week because it became like a weekly pilgrimage. 503 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,840 The object of my desire was the cabinet. 504 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,520 The cabinet in Sheffield at that time was particularly good. 505 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,280 I mean, maybe I'm looking at it with roast tinted glasses, but 506 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,680 I'd honestly say that it was one of the best cabinets I'd ever 507 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,640 seen. Because lately throughout the 508 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,240 years I sort of went to different games workshops, 509 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,520 Derby, Manchester, Nottingham and I think only Nottingham was 510 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,520 marginally better out of all the ones that I ever visited. 511 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,200 But I would say Sheffield had a fantastic set of painters back 512 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,840 in those days. And it was my goal, it became my 513 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,880 goal to get my figures into that cabinet. 514 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,600 Because it was one of the days where, you know, just normal 515 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,440 Games Workshop enthusiasts could bring their figures into the 516 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,360 shop and the staff would put them in the cabinet for display 517 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,200 and put a little sign saying painted by. 518 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,000 And then so it was just, you know, it was a little ambition 519 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,840 of mine when I was a teenager to do that. 520 00:31:53,840 --> 00:32:01,960 And I did manage it eventually. There was a guy there do stop me 521 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,960 if I ramble on because I probably bit of a rack on tur 522 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,360 when I get going. But there was a chat there who 523 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,480 worked and he was really encouraging. 524 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,720 Like when I first tried it, I kept taking my miniatures in and 525 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,080 I was like, Oh yeah, this is going to get in the cabinet I 526 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:18,640 think. And then he look at it and go, 527 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:22,480 Nah, it's not good enough feel. You know, the boots are all 528 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,960 patchy or, you know, the colours are wrong or look at the face, 529 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,600 look at the eyes. And he just kept pushing me and 530 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,360 pushing me to like improve the figures until I got my stuff in 531 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,200 there. He was called Kenny Crow and he, 532 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,440 he was a fantastic painter for the time. 533 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:46,360 I think his stuff was definitely better than what we were seeing 534 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:52,040 on the pages of White Dwarf. In my opinion, he was absolutely 535 00:32:52,040 --> 00:33:00,400 top drawer painter. Yeah, but when I first started, 536 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,720 I remember we were painting with the Umbrel enamels and thinning 537 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,840 the paint down and but the figures were very bland. 538 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:13,600 And that's where then we got into these brand new acrylic 539 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,200 paints at Games Workshop, launched with titillating pink 540 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:21,840 and bestial brown and skull white. 541 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,680 I'm sure most of the people listening to this will remember 542 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,480 some of those colours. Just remember the joy of opening 543 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,680 those pots of paint and sitting there painting and being 544 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,680 overjoyed at how easy it was to paint compared with, you know, 545 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,520 trying to paint with humble enamels. 546 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,680 No, no shade to humble. You know, their stuff is good as 547 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,920 well. But the fact that you don't have 548 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,840 to use thinners and things like that, it was just beautiful. 549 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,880 Yeah, are they? They're the same paint sets with 550 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:58,280 the with those amazing golden demon covers and everything on 551 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,000 them. Yeah, that's right. 552 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,720 Yeah. I think the first one I had was, 553 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,800 it might have been the second paint set, because I think when 554 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,000 the first one was called something like the colour paint 555 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,480 set, something like that. And then the second one was 556 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,840 called the Monster paint set. That was the first one I ever 557 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:20,960 bought. And then I treated myself to 558 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,760 they brought out the inks and it was a little set of inks and 559 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,080 they weren't even in those sort of conical shaped pots. 560 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,040 They were in little dropper bottles, but small ones, really 561 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,080 small. And I remember opening it and 562 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,120 just like this stuff is game changing. 563 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,800 You know how you could do it? Do a wash with a little drop of 564 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,440 water, just put it on and shade instantly appeared. 565 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,000 Remember being blown away by it. It seems silly now, doesn't it? 566 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,480 Because we all take it for granted. 567 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,440 But just do remember the the joy of that. 568 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,320 Yeah, no, they were game changing, mate, for sure for me 569 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:02,680 as well. When I first discovered those 570 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,640 paint sets. Yeah, I could, I could brush 571 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:11,360 away my Tamia acrylic paints and find something far less smellier 572 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,040 and much easier to use and and that kind of thing. 573 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,240 Yeah, it, it was game changing for everybody. 574 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,880 But I did notice they did release a set prior to those 575 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,240 ones. I'm just trying to think of the 576 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,760 of the artist who did Bob's Naysmith, wasn't it? 577 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,080 Bob Naysmith did all the art covers for those gold. 578 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,160 Yeah, I reckon it was. Yeah, I. 579 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:31,760 Think so. I'm pretty sure they had one 580 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,920 before that as well where the headlights are. 581 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,160 I'm pretty sure the one, the box on the on the wall that I had 582 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:43,200 behind me that Mark kindly gave to me with John Blanche's like 583 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,160 Kaspari crushing the the skeleton guy with his Harry the 584 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,760 hammer. I'm pretty sure that has is a 585 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,640 paint set. And I'm pretty sure they came up 586 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,440 before the Bob Naismith covered ones. 587 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,920 So they had sort of like, yeah, pre that one, which I, I never 588 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:03,160 knew until not so long ago until going through, you know, whether 589 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:06,800 it'll be like civil compendiums or White Dwarf magazines finding 590 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,280 they actually had a paint set before then. 591 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,720 So they must just re repackage them into these wonderful 592 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:15,320 looking, obviously much, much more interesting looking sets. 593 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,520 And yeah. It's, it's amazing actually, 594 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,680 because you're educating me now about that. 595 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:26,400 I didn't know about that. And I'm quite astounded at just 596 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,160 how much I've learned in in the years when I've returned to the 597 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:36,280 hobby, which I'll tell you about in a second, but how much I've 598 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,000 learned of other people, you know, like stuff that you just 599 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,360 blatantly weren't aware of because in those days, nobody 600 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,200 talked about it. And I suppose a lot of the 601 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,400 background history, you know, the people involved in making 602 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,520 the miniatures, the people involved in setting up Games 603 00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,680 Workshop. And that it wasn't, it wasn't 604 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,920 particularly talked about then. They weren't famous, they were 605 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,080 just people doing a job. Whereas now they've sort of got, 606 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,880 you know, sort of cult like status, haven't they? 607 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,800 The amount of stuff that you learn about figures and paints 608 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:16,360 and 1st editions and compendiums, it goes on forever, 609 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:17,360 doesn't it? Yeah. 610 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:18,720 But yeah, I've, I've learned the same. 611 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:22,680 I've, I've picked up a lot of stuff from my guests that I had 612 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:27,040 never known about or been enlightened by or now these, a 613 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,520 lot of these interviews. Because a lot of the, you know, 614 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,960 the former old guard of Gangs Workshop from back in those days 615 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,760 are now being interviewed now as they're retired from their, from 616 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,160 their long service working at Gangs Workshop and you learn 617 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:40,120 more and. More as you go. 618 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:41,600 Which is really really. Interesting. 619 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,160 So mate, what are your other influences do you think? 620 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,440 Yeah, well, like I said before I got into this stuff, I was 621 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:58,440 always into into science fiction and kind of action in war type 622 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,360 stuff. So, you know, if you list the 623 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,880 stuff of the 80s, it's action man and Action force. 624 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,680 Don't know if you had action force that where you were 625 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:16,640 anything sci-fi like Blake, Seven Star Wars and even from 626 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,320 being a kid of about 10, I used to have those. 627 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,600 I suppose you the common term these days. 628 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:27,280 These would be green army men and I used to have hundreds of 629 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,320 these things which are just collected from everywhere. 630 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,400 You know, friends, cousins, etcetera would give them to me 631 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,000 after they grew out of them. I just had this massive box 632 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,600 which I used to tip out on the lounge carpet and have these 633 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:46,080 wars behind the couch. And then I got a game for 634 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,240 Christmas once from my mom and dad, and it was called Crossbows 635 00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:53,000 and Catapults. I don't know if you've ever 636 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,480 heard of that. Sure have, mate. 637 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,160 Yeah. I think it was MB games 638 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,760 actually, and I had loads of fun playing that game on its own, 639 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,720 but then I integrated it into my Green Army Men wars by putting 640 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:10,920 in stronger elastic bands onto the catapult. 641 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,760 So they were absolutely lethal. They fired these like round pook 642 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,840 things like ice hockey pooks, didn't they? 643 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,600 And yeah, I used to fire those across the lounge and kill the 644 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,840 20 army men at a time. And then I started painting the 645 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,520 army men. And then that's how it sort of 646 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,560 progressed into air fixed planes, tanks, Tamia, Italy, 647 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,600 Arai, that sort of stuff, you know. 648 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,080 So I guess, you know, I've always been into that stuff. 649 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:47,280 And also through the teenage years, I just came, became aware 650 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,240 of what kind of what I would call counterculture art, like 651 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:59,160 the old Leonardo da Vinci anatomy drawings and the the 652 00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,600 Iron Maiden heavy metal album covers, that sort of stuff, you 653 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:09,680 know, just zombies, monsters, creatures, you know. 654 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,000 Yep, absolutely, mate. I remember all those days. 655 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:17,440 Yeah, I remember, like, you know, I remember kids at my high 656 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:22,360 school because we had, you know, our sort of like a rucksack or 657 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,160 something. We would take to school our 658 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,560 bags, but there'd be like this sort of like this hessian sort 659 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,000 of style bag or like this sort of light beige colour. 660 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,160 Yes, I haven't seen back. Yeah, I think in those in those 661 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,200 days, like late 80s or so, everyone had that sort of style 662 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,800 of bag and they would, they would meticulously draw the Iron 663 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,720 Maiden logo on the back of that bag, like with the like the flap 664 00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:47,200 that covers your bag kind of thing. 665 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:52,120 Yes, that is it. And I remember at that time 666 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,680 anything like that heavy metal was totally thought of by the 667 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,040 establishment as being some kind of devil worshippers. 668 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,080 Now, I mean, obviously, I think we all know better now, don't 669 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,320 we? You know, I really got into so 670 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:11,440 much trouble for having an Iron Maiden T-shirts or painting it 671 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,560 on my jacket and stuff like that. 672 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,760 Everyone going you're a Satanist. 673 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:20,400 It's like, no, I'm not. Don't know anything about Satan. 674 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:24,440 But it was, you know, and I loved any, any kind of 675 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,320 rebellious thing like that way just gave me that little 676 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,120 opportunity to thumb my nose authority. 677 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:37,160 So Iron Maiden appeared everywhere and anything that was 678 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:41,840 a little bit, I don't know, just that the adult didn't really 679 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:43,080 approve of. I loved it. 680 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,240 I loved the World War Two poster or stuff like that. 681 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,080 Yeah, nice mate. That sounds great. 682 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,760 So you so how about comics and that kind of thing? 683 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,040 Did you get into the comics during those days as well? 684 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:03,480 Yeah, so I think at the time, to be fair, I wasn't really into 685 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,160 the DC and Marvel stuff at that time. 686 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,880 I was aware of it, but I always thought the storyline was a bit 687 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,080 like advanced for my brain. I was more into the drawings. 688 00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:17,760 Like I would buy the comic purely to look at how it was 689 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:23,520 drawn and that how each cell ran into the next cell and stuff 690 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:25,680 like that. You know how those sort of DC 691 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:31,080 Comics were sort of bleed from 1 cell to the next where Batman or 692 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,760 whatever is knocking out the villain and he's sort of flying 693 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:38,400 across two or three cells. I'll prefer that style. 694 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,800 And then I sort of got into the more serious stuff, like, I 695 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:48,840 don't know, everyone will know Boris Valeo and Julie Bell and 696 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,880 they just did fantasy paintings in oil. 697 00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:59,120 And I think they sort of took their, took their inspiration 698 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,920 from the what's the chap called who did Death Dealer? 699 00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:06,400 I forget his name now. OK, I think I know. 700 00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,040 I know the. Tip of my tongue. 701 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,160 But yeah. But I'll, I'll come back to it. 702 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:19,480 But and also I once found when I was a kid, this was a bit 703 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,040 naughty. I once found a Playboy magazine 704 00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,200 and in there there was an artist being featured and he was called 705 00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:29,640 Antonio Vargas. Alberto Vargas. 706 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:30,440 That was it. Yeah. 707 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:37,240 And he did these beautiful sort of 50s style pin up girls and 708 00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:39,800 they were the type of things that were painted on the World 709 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,320 War Two airplanes, you know, like Memphis Belle, that type of 710 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,480 thing. Right. 711 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:49,440 Oh well, you know, playboy's got respect mate, so don't worry 712 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:50,240 about that. I think it's. 713 00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:53,000 Quite. I think that's like, just like 714 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,360 an ordinary magazine now, isn't it? 715 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:59,280 I think it is these days, but I think, yeah, at the time it was 716 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,000 again a bit bit risque, wasn't it? 717 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,080 I found the death deal. I did a quick Google while we 718 00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,960 were talking. It's friends for Rosetta. 719 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,680 I don't remember that's. It yeah, that's right, but all. 720 00:44:09,720 --> 00:44:14,600 All of that stuff really bleeds into, for me, the Warhammer 721 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,880 ethos, doesn't it? You know, that must have been 722 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:22,200 what was going around the minds of, of the early sort of games 723 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:26,880 works of artists, the the sort of Vikings and and chaos of 724 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:31,480 warriors and all that stuff just really spoke to me a lot. 725 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,600 Yes, very sword and sorcery, isn't it? 726 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,960 When you think of like movies like Code in the Barbarian, 727 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,960 Excalibur, you know around that time during the 80s, mid 80s. 728 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,000 Yeah, fantastic film, that Excalibur. 729 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,680 I mean, you know, I used to just have it on VHS and just watch it 730 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,880 over and over. And the same for Highlander. 731 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,360 You remember that? Film Highlander, yeah, yeah. 732 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,880 I mean, they're pretty. They're pretty, like, even like 733 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:03,440 Willow, something like Willow. It, it has some very dark 734 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,760 undertones. And watching these Movies Now 735 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,400 because I've watched Willow. What was it? 736 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,520 I think a couple of months ago for the first time in, I don't 737 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,560 know how long, decades. And I'm thinking, you know, I 738 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,720 was watching this as a kid. But you know, it's got some 739 00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:20,080 really dark occult kind of themes in it. 740 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,920 You know, if you if you look at other movies like Conan, it's 741 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,400 got, you know, I think that was an R rated movie, I think when 742 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,280 that first came out. They've made some pretty serious 743 00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,120 stuff back then. I mean, it's quite laughable 744 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:34,640 some of the special effects and that kind of thing. 745 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:36,240 But I kind, I kind of respect it now. 746 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,440 But you know, I was watching one the other weekend, just turned 747 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,360 on some TV and it was totally random and it was crawl. 748 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:50,840 Can you remember Crawl? I remember the name, I can't 749 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:54,000 remember the movie. And it was just very similar 750 00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,840 sort of thing, you know, evil castle lands in the middle of 751 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:01,280 nowhere and starts doing naughtiness and oppressing the 752 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,000 local, that type of thing. And I just thought, God, this is 753 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:09,120 just straight, you know, it's all the same genre if you like. 754 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:15,240 It's creating this the tableau for our imaginations in that 755 00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:21,960 period of sort of almost mythical nostalgia for for some 756 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:28,640 kind of King Arthur esque landscape that we long to be the 757 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,840 hero in. That doesn't sound too crazy. 758 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:33,520 Yeah, no, that, that, that sounds right, mate. 759 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:35,680 Yeah. So a lot of influences are 760 00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,720 getting through at that time during this very early stage of 761 00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:41,840 White Dwarf when, yeah, things are changing. 762 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,000 It wasn't wasn't becoming the RPG book. 763 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,720 It was becoming less and less an RPG book, but more of a 764 00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:51,800 miniature tabletop publication. So, mate, can you feel or can 765 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:52,840 you remember? Not feel. 766 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,800 Can you remember what your first White Dwarf magazine was? 767 00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,840 It's one that I've been thinking about a lot. 768 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,440 I'm not 100% sure, I've got to be honest. 769 00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:13,480 And I reckon it might have been #76 but I'm not 100% sure on 770 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,040 that because I've definitely had that one. 771 00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:18,880 But whether that was the first one I got, I just can't quite 772 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,280 remember. It was the one with John 773 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,760 Blanchard's cover with gothic Amazon on the front. 774 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:31,400 Definitely had that one. And I had #84 with the Ian 775 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,760 Miller cover. And it's like savvy jokes on the 776 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:39,000 front. I think those ones stick in my 777 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,080 head. I've got quite a few which I've 778 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:45,280 picked up in recent years, you know, But there were some 779 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:50,640 absolute crackers. And I hate to say it now, and I 780 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,800 think purist listening will probably cringe, but sometimes 781 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,680 it was the cover that made you buy it. 782 00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,880 I pretty much always bought it, but the cover was what got me 783 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,960 excited. I think One O 2 was a great one 784 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,080 with Les Edwards's Dark Future. And it's like a big fat man with 785 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:12,000 his really red lips. And it was straight out of Mad 786 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,840 Max or June, you know? I think it was a Dark Future 787 00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,880 style cover. Yeah, that's some really good 788 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,800 quality artists like Les Edwards. 789 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:27,360 Yeah, just a genius, that guy. Yeah, I know. 790 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:33,680 This one's just sort of, you know, like, again, they played 791 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:39,040 into this whole mythology of counterculture like a secret 792 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,640 world of adventure. That was a little bit of 793 00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:47,840 escapism for some, you know, teenager grew up in a village in 794 00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,840 the Peak District where there's really not very much to do at 795 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:55,400 night, but perhaps hang around the bus stop and try and pinch a 796 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,960 couple of bottles of beer from around the back of the pool bus. 797 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:06,440 Nice one mate now. So yes, I I agree, like a lot of 798 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,520 the covers obviously drew me in and I I discovered a lot of the 799 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:14,920 old white dwarfs much later as I got into the hobby in around 800 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,040 about 901990 I think. And I think someone brought in a 801 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:23,320 whole stack of back issues and they resold it at my like local 802 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,520 comic shop. And that's how I discovered a 803 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,600 lot of the older ones, like in our in around this range. 804 00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:32,080 So, you know, from around about, I don't know, about 85 up until 805 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,000 about 100 and better, I know it would have been over 100 806 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,520 actually. I think so. 807 00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,840 Like one like the one 20s, one 30s, one 40s, one 50s around 808 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,560 those. And yeah, stunning artwork on 809 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,160 the front. And I think, I don't know if I 810 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,360 was talking to this with somebody else, it might have, 811 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,320 yeah, about the front covers of those magazines. 812 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,440 It would have been very costly for them to do that to 813 00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,040 Commission someone just for a front cover if it wasn't going 814 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:00,000 to use for another publication of some kind. 815 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,160 I think they sort of changed that later where they had just, 816 00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,440 they just had Dave Gallagher doing all the front covers, 817 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,880 basically. All right. 818 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,080 OK, yeah, it was that. Yeah, I think Dave did the 819 00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,400 majority of them later. But they'll always for something 820 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:14,640 else. They'll always like the cover of 821 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,800 something you know they're going to use that artwork for. 822 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,000 Yeah, yeah, because that. But I noticed that looking 823 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,440 through a lot of the bonds, when I was thinking about this 824 00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:25,720 question, I thought, you know, I'm going to get asked about the 825 00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:28,320 white dwarfs. And so I started looking up all 826 00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,560 the different covers and trying to see which ones I could 827 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:33,040 remember, which ones I'd gone up to. 828 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,120 And I noticed that. Dave Andrews were, was there 829 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:40,280 quite a few times, you know, and Dave Gallagher as well. 830 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:47,560 They, I think the one I mentioned, the Les Edwards one, 831 00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:50,800 I'm sure that was on the cover of or the box of Dark Future 832 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,760 wasn't. It, it might have been. 833 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,720 Yeah, all those ones, yeah, yeah. 834 00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:00,000 Well, it makes sense, doesn't it? 835 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,640 I mean running a business and obviously you got all those 836 00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,040 people to pay. Yeah. 837 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,280 So makes sense, you know, you just can't have throwaway art 838 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:16,640 just for one magazine cover, so. Yeah, it can makes some respect 839 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:18,200 this. Time, you know, during the Ansel 840 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:22,400 time because like I'd never met the man myself, but I think he 841 00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,760 gave a lot of people a good chance, you know what I mean? 842 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:30,000 He he looked at their work and I think finding people who centred 843 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:36,360 around this kind of this kind of genre was not, you know, wasn't 844 00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,920 there, there was an enormous supply in around Nottingham, 845 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:44,360 around maybe at that area of the UK at that time, given the way 846 00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,560 that, you know, people would transfer the artwork that had to 847 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,920 physically bring everything in or, you know, post it in or 848 00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,120 whatever. So he he found, he sort of went 849 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,920 out and sort of headhunted all these people that he would. 850 00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,080 He thought, yeah, these these people are the best at what they 851 00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:02,680 do in the industry and together and, you know, got them to 852 00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,160 produce some of the best artwork. 853 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:08,320 I think of that. You look at some of the artwork 854 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,200 now, I mean, looking back and I think some of these guys must 855 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,400 have been almost just out of art college or something because the 856 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,960 standard of work that they had and there was no digital 857 00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:19,600 reproduction. And you know, there's nobody 858 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:23,640 making it on Photoshop and making composites with multiple 859 00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:25,880 layers because there wasn't any Photoshop. 860 00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:30,760 You know, it's often done by hand, pen and ink and just 861 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:36,760 phenomenal talent and to be able to own those white dwarfs and 862 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,280 things like that. And then some of the boxes, I 863 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,800 guess it's a fantastic way of just having a little print from 864 00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:49,560 those those artists, because I dare say some of the originals 865 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,320 are worth absolutely hundreds now. 866 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,560 And you know, you could used to be able until just a few years 867 00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,160 ago, you could pick up the white dwarfs for a couple of quid. 868 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,480 I mean, I know they're going up a little bit now. 869 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,360 I think I paid about 10 lbs for one not long ago. 870 00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:12,080 But just fantastic to be able to still get them. 871 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:20,560 Annoyingly, must have had about 50 in my wardrobe at my mum's 872 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:28,400 house for 25 years before she finally said, Phil, can you come 873 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:32,000 and get rid of all this crap? And I was like, yeah, yeah. 874 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,760 And she said, do you want these magazines? 875 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:35,360 And I said no, just get rid of them. 876 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:42,320 And Oh my, I wish I hadn't. But it's a very common thing 877 00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,360 with anyone who's into the old hammer, isn't it? 878 00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:48,280 You know, kind of get rid of most of our stuff and then have 879 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:51,000 to buy it back. Yeah, mate, we've done all that. 880 00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,160 I've done all mine too. Like sent all my stuff to the, 881 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:59,760 my mum's like a charity shop. Yeah, all my, all my issues went 882 00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,280 there and some lucky bugger picked those up for about 883 00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,160 probably a dollar each, I'd say, or $2.00 each or something like 884 00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:09,320 that at that time. So yeah, I mean, you know, 885 00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,160 someone's trash is going to be someone else's treasure, as they 886 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,000 say. So in that case, yeah, someone 887 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,480 got a very good deal. Anyhow, mate, we're going to 888 00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,600 we're going to pause now for a quick ad break, but when we come 889 00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,280 back I'm sure there's lots of stuff we can talk about in 890 00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,200 relation to the hobby. So join us in just a moment. 891 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:33,160 OK, a question of the month for August 2024 is what miniature 892 00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,840 would you like to own? Above all else? 893 00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:39,600 For me it's got to be the Great Unclean One from the Citadel 894 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,560 combat cards. Of the late 80s and early 90s. 895 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:46,120 A great looking miniature which by all accounts weighs about as 896 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:49,640 much as a small cannonball. I'd love to own it, I'd love to 897 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:53,280 paint it, but I imagine they're very hard and very expensive to 898 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,480 come by these days. Anyway, tell us about the 899 00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:59,360 ultimate miniature you would like to own by going to 900 00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:04,280 bedroombattlefields.com/voicemail. And I need those in by Thursday 901 00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,600 the 29th of August. That's 902 00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:13,280 bedroombattlefields.com/voicemail. And now back to the show, just 903 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,920 as I don't know if people are listening, if they can relate to 904 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,640 just the fun of the hobby as a kid. 905 00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:25,280 So I mean, there was a couple of things that pushed me on again, 906 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,800 you know, So I spoke about Kenny Crow, who was the guy at 907 00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,520 Sheffield Games Workshop who kept pushing me and pushing me. 908 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,000 And he told me about a book called Heroes for War Games. 909 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:43,560 And then if anyone's watched my YouTube channel or my Instagram, 910 00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,880 they'll see that I've been doing a bit of a walk through on that 911 00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:51,000 book lately. But it was one I came across 912 00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,000 after he'd mentioned it. I was looking for it for ages, 913 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,040 couldn't find it. And I went to my local library. 914 00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:02,640 And as I said before, it was, it's where I grew up with really 915 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,480 in the middle of the sticks. So like stuff like that, just, I 916 00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,680 didn't expect to find it. And that was the only library 917 00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:12,200 you could really get to, you know, without having to travel. 918 00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,800 So I just found it one day. And that book, I must have had 919 00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:18,560 it on repeat for about two years. 920 00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:21,880 You know, just every time it expired, I just took it back and 921 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:26,000 booked it back out again. No one ever got looking because 922 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,680 there was so many amazing figures in there and great 923 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:35,400 drawings. It just, you know, kept on 924 00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,280 inspiring me to paint better, to paint better, to paint better. 925 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,360 And then Kenny came to me and said, are you entering the 926 00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:48,760 Golden Demon Award? No idea what the Golden Demon 927 00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:52,960 Award is, Ken. He said, well, there's an event 928 00:56:52,960 --> 00:57:00,440 at Derby and it said it was at the the Assembly Halls 1989. 929 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,800 He said that you you basically have to paint some, paint a 930 00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,880 figure into it in whatever categories you want to enter. 931 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:13,480 And if you're if you're lucky enough to get through the heat, 932 00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:18,960 you get to go to games day and and pitch your figures against 933 00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:23,280 the world's best painters. Well, I'm like, well, come on. 934 00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:27,880 I'm like 15 or whatever it is. So I'm not really in that 935 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,960 league. And he went, no, no, I think 936 00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,800 you, I think you've got a good chance mate, He said. 937 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,640 I think you've got a good chance of getting through. 938 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,400 So I was like, OK, I'll have a game anyway. 939 00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:46,280 And I bought recently bought the Scarlocks wood elf Archers box 940 00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:47,400 set. Do you remember that one? 941 00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,400 I sure do, I love the artwork on that as well. 942 00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,720 Beautiful. Yeah, yeah, fantastic artwork. 943 00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:56,200 I don't know who that's by actually, but I always remember 944 00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:02,160 the like the War Dancer sort of champion on the front and just 945 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,240 got these figures. They were just beautiful Jess 946 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:09,600 Goodwin sculpts. And out of that, the best figure 947 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:13,120 at the time I felt was was Scarlock himself. 948 00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:17,000 And I stuck him on a horse base, put a log in front of him and 949 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,400 some stones. Green flock in those days. 950 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,440 And that one of those orangey spongy bushes, I don't know. 951 00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:29,280 You see them all the time on the old, on the old photographs. 952 00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,000 What's it kind of like, say again? 953 00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:33,800 Let's remember, I don't remember. 954 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:36,760 What it's called because used, we used to buy that in bags in 955 00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:41,480 back in the back in the early 90s to use it as like soft cover 956 00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:45,040 because like in the rule book, of course. 957 00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:46,800 And I think Rogue Trader as well. 958 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,640 You had all that stuff on the tables, but you don't know, you 959 00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,960 never see it anymore. No, no, it's quite, it's quite 960 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:56,080 rare. And I mean, I don't find it the 961 00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,280 best stuff ever. There's so much better stuff 962 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:03,440 now, but back then it was kind of bit revolutionary. 963 00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:07,040 And, and this one, this particular coloured Bush that I 964 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,720 picked up from BT's model shop in Sheffield, it was kind of 965 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:16,320 orange, like fiery orange, which just really worked against 966 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:20,440 Scarlocks green. And I remember the tunic that I 967 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,480 painted a scarlok, it was goblin green as the base. 968 00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:31,160 And then I highlighted it with bilious green and I washed it 969 00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,120 with an imperial. No, no, no, no. 970 00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:41,240 What's it called a type anyway? A really beautiful woodland 971 00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:46,640 green wash and it was a proper ink like a Daler and Rowney type 972 00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:52,760 thing that I had from an art project and I just washed it 973 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,080 with that and it just made it pop. 974 00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,240 I thought it was the best figure I've I've ever painted at that 975 00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,200 time that I don't think I've done anything else good. 976 01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:07,960 I mean, by today's standards, it was, you know, plain average, 977 01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:12,720 but. Yeah, I put it in and I had no 978 01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,600 expectations whatsoever. And then just one day I just got 979 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,240 this letter through from Games Workshop saying, 980 01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:23,200 congratulations, you've won the heat and the single figure and 981 01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:24,640 you're going to games Day. That's. 982 01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:30,160 Awesome. Yeah, so Kenny Crawl and all his 983 01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:38,360 pushing had really paid off, you know, and at the time that I 984 01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,080 think, you know, just blown away. 985 01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:43,200 It was like a big thing for all my mates at school, just like, 986 01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:44,840 Oh my God, you're going to game today. 987 01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:52,640 What if you see John Blanche? And so it was just a beautiful 988 01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,080 thing. My dad said that he would take 989 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:56,440 me. We didn't have a car in those 990 01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:02,560 days, so we had to go on the bus to Derby. 991 01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:09,560 And then we caught a train to my, we call it train to my 992 01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,320 aunties, who lives at Utah in Staffordshire. 993 01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,840 And then we went the next day, back on the train to Derby, to 994 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,480 the games day. And dad just went and mooched 995 01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:22,240 around the city all day waiting for me. 996 01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:24,960 Yeah. What a hero. 997 01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:31,400 And I went in and oddly enough, did meet John Blanche that day. 998 01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,120 Oh. Nice. 999 01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:39,280 So I just remember it was quite a crazy day because I was 1000 01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:43,920 walking down the, I was walking down the main concourse bit and 1001 01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:45,560 I seen John Blanche going towards me. 1002 01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:50,080 And he, he had his trademark cut off denim jacket on. 1003 01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:52,440 And of course he was super young in those days. 1004 01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,240 He'd probably be younger than I am now, much younger. 1005 01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:59,680 And I stopped him and said George on Blanche. 1006 01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:01,680 And he went, yeah, I am, blah, blah, blah. 1007 01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,560 And I said, well, I would ask you for an autograph, but I 1008 01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,960 haven't got any paper or a pen. And he went, I've got a pen and 1009 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,640 I've got an apple. They pulled an apple out of his 1010 01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:17,440 pocket, inside the apple. I bet you never ate that one 1011 01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:21,000 mate. No, Well, I didn't keep it for a 1012 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:22,920 while, but obviously he couldn't keep it for very long. 1013 01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:28,720 John's just about to walk off, you know, because I can't hold 1014 01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:30,080 on to him for too long, obviously. 1015 01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,640 And I said, John, I said I'm just going to go out on a limb 1016 01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:35,400 here. And this is, this is a 16 year 1017 01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,840 old or 15 year old, I can't quite remember exactly how old I 1018 01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,040 was. And I said I'm going to go out 1019 01:02:40,040 --> 01:02:42,640 on a limb here. I wonder if you might do me a 1020 01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,920 favour. I can't believe I was so cheeky 1021 01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:49,920 to be honest. I said I, I brought a figure, 1022 01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:54,080 it's in the cabinet down there and you know, I wouldn't want to 1023 01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:59,440 the Sheffield heats. I said, I wonder if you might be 1024 01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:04,280 able to get it photographed for the book that you produce every 1025 01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:06,360 year. I said, I know I've seen some of 1026 01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:09,520 the other ones from the previous year and I just wondered if 1027 01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:12,480 there's any possibility you could get it photographed for 1028 01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,040 me. And he just went, yeah, of 1029 01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:19,480 course, let's go get it. And so we went down to to get 1030 01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,440 the figure out the cabinet and he pulled it out and got it 1031 01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:24,680 photographed. And it is in that Games Day book 1032 01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:30,200 from 1989. Wow OK I used to have that book 1033 01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:34,640 too so I'll have to go and hunt down like APDF copy of it and 1034 01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:38,320 check it out again mate. So see that miniature in in 1035 01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:39,680 print? It'd be awesome to see in your 1036 01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:42,840 quotation there. This crazy thing and I just need 1037 01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,920 to clarify here so Scarlock wouldn't need the heat. 1038 01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:50,720 But for some reason, and I don't know why this was because it was 1039 01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,480 a moment of madness and I kick myself for it all the time. 1040 01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:59,400 For some reason, I painted a Space Marine Scout about a week 1041 01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:03,880 before the tournament and I was just into that and I thought 1042 01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:07,480 that is better than Scarlock. So for some reason I took the 1043 01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:13,480 scout to games day and entered that and it wasn't as good as 1044 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:15,280 Scarlock. I look at it now and think it's 1045 01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:19,240 not even a patch on it. But hey, that was the one that I 1046 01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,160 got photographed and it's still in the book. 1047 01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:23,920 And some poor soul and I don't know who it was. 1048 01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:28,440 He painted an elder scout and they attributed that to me as 1049 01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:30,920 well, and I didn't paint that and I felt so guilty. 1050 01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:35,280 It's like someone must. Have been really pissed. 1051 01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,640 You would be, you would be, wouldn't you know, After all 1052 01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:40,960 these years, it must still rankle when you look at it. 1053 01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,000 I'm sorry. Whoever that was, by the way. 1054 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,240 I'm so sorry. Yeah, Anything else happen on 1055 01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:53,560 that day, Mate of Gangs Day 89? Yeah, yeah, just one crazy thing 1056 01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:54,760 as well. Can you remember there was a 1057 01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,040 game? Can you remember gobbledygook? 1058 01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:00,880 I'm not really familiar with it, no. 1059 01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:05,880 OK so gobbledygook was like this goblin character means like a 1060 01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,600 cartoon and I think he was in White Dwarf. 1061 01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:13,440 Anyway, they created some kind of a game and I cannot remember 1062 01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:15,920 the name of the game. It may have been called Splat or 1063 01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:20,480 something like that. Anyway, there's lots of tables 1064 01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:26,400 at Games Day that day and they were showcasing this game and it 1065 01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:30,600 was sort of like little cards or little coat. 1066 01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:33,280 They're almost like coasters, you know, I put put your drink 1067 01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,320 on. Anyway, I was wondering what all 1068 01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:38,000 the fuss was. So I'm standing in the queue 1069 01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,240 like what's all the fuss? Can't get near this table. 1070 01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:42,960 So I finally got close to the table to see him. 1071 01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:45,560 It's just these little cards with these cute little gobbling 1072 01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:49,080 pictures on and all the all the kids have got one in their hand, 1073 01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,880 right? So I'm like, why are you holding 1074 01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,760 these cards? And they're all holding on to 1075 01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:00,360 them, holding on to them. I'm thinking these like 3 these 1076 01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:04,640 like freebies. So anyway, I reached across and 1077 01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:06,960 picked one up and I'm holding mine and everyone's just 1078 01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:09,000 standing there. Kind of, I can't really work out 1079 01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:11,680 what's happening. And it's so hot because everyone 1080 01:06:11,680 --> 01:06:13,840 was crowding in. I thought, oh, I saw this, I'm 1081 01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:17,080 going to sit down. So I just melted out of the 1082 01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:21,720 crowd and went behind only about 5 feet away from where everyone 1083 01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:24,720 was standing and sat down. I still had the card in my hand, 1084 01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:28,560 didn't think anything of it. Suddenly this kid looks around 1085 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:30,120 at me and he's like staring at me. 1086 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:34,360 And then two others start staring at me. 1087 01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:36,520 And then about 10 people start staring at me. 1088 01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:38,640 I'm like, what the Hell's going on here? 1089 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,200 And then this Gates Workshop staffer came over to me and 1090 01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:46,640 went, excuse me, did you just take one of those cards? 1091 01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:52,200 And I went, yeah, it's here. And he went, you can't take 1092 01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:52,800 them. I went. 1093 01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:55,040 Everyone just had them in their hands. 1094 01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:56,800 So I just thought they were like, three. 1095 01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:01,040 I nearly died. I wish the ground had swallowed 1096 01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:02,920 me up, you know, it was so horrible. 1097 01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:07,560 Oh, dear. But yeah, that those were, you 1098 01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:11,800 know, it was a good day overall. And like I say, I did pretty 1099 01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,200 well out of it to get my picture, my phone, my miniature 1100 01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:18,200 in the book. And, you know, that's meeting 1101 01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,840 John Blanche. Those were the overriding things 1102 01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,040 of the day. And that little thing doesn't 1103 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:24,600 matter. I didn't steal a thing. 1104 01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:26,400 It was just a misunderstanding. Can. 1105 01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:30,000 You remember who won the Golden Demon that year? 1106 01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:35,840 Oh, now that is a good question, I think. 1107 01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,520 Oh, was it David Super? Right. 1108 01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:49,480 You know, it was somebody blunt. I think David super that year I. 1109 01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:53,120 Don't know. I'm going to have to Google that 1110 01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:56,360 because I I need to know. I've totally forgotten. 1111 01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:57,880 I think it might be somebody blunt. 1112 01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:03,240 I know that I even Bartlett had won it the year before with his 1113 01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:08,120 fantastic mammoth and the howder I think that I think or, or did 1114 01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:12,480 he win it with the Chalice of doom again, all those all about 1115 01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:15,200 the same time. You know, I can't quite remember 1116 01:08:15,200 --> 01:08:18,880 who won it what year. But yeah, Golden Demon and Games 1117 01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:20,880 Day were together. They were combined, weren't 1118 01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:21,640 they? As one. 1119 01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:27,560 That's right, that's right. They were, and you had to sort 1120 01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:32,399 of wait through the whole games day was just going on the games, 1121 01:08:32,399 --> 01:08:33,960 people. Tabletop gaming. 1122 01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:37,399 There was like Knights and things doing sword fights and 1123 01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:40,720 stuff. I mean, sword fighting with 1124 01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:44,120 broad swords, with people standing around the edges. 1125 01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:45,439 I mean, what could go wrong? Yeah. 1126 01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:51,200 Exactly, man. Oh, I think I may have found a 1127 01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:53,760 picture that shows who won it. I'm just. 1128 01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:57,600 OK. It was Steve Blunt. 1129 01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:01,120 Yeah. And it was like A to meet a 1130 01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,640 Nigel demon on a chariot with, like, a skeletal thing. 1131 01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:09,880 And that was bloody amazing. I saw it all close, and it was 1132 01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:15,359 truly, you know, I think it'd do well in today's standards. 1133 01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,120 The painting was so smooth. I mean, don't get me wrong, 1134 01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:22,279 modelling by today's standards was a bit rough, but then so 1135 01:09:22,279 --> 01:09:25,520 were the models, weren't they? You know exactly it was rough. 1136 01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:27,880 Then Yep, you're only working with what you got. 1137 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,080 So you know they did very well with what they had. 1138 01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:32,240 Mate. Talk about painting. 1139 01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:36,399 Because I've noticed now, again, like in the last week, there's 1140 01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:39,680 another couple of paint ranges coming out and now we just seem 1141 01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:43,120 to be having, we just got so much wealth of different 1142 01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:45,479 painting like paint manufacturers out there with 1143 01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:47,600 their new ranges coming out, that kind of thing. 1144 01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:50,560 What kind of paints do you use now? 1145 01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:52,000 You obviously you're not using the old. 1146 01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:54,720 Are you using some of the old original Citadel paints or 1147 01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:58,720 you've moved on to other things? Yeah, I've got a bit of a mix, I 1148 01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:03,520 think, like most painters, and not because I'm not one of these 1149 01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:07,240 paint collectors, I'm just, you know, I watched the videos on 1150 01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:11,120 YouTube and some of the guys, excuse me and some of the girls 1151 01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:14,920 on there, they've got hundreds of paints and racks and racks 1152 01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:16,440 and drawers and drawers of paint. 1153 01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:21,800 I think I've got two drawers, 2 smallish drawers on my desk and 1154 01:10:21,800 --> 01:10:25,400 one's kind of full of drop of bottles and one is full of 1155 01:10:25,480 --> 01:10:27,920 Citadel stuff, new, new Citadel stuff. 1156 01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:35,680 And there's a bit of Nostalgia 88 in there, a couple of 1157 01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:43,760 Privateer Press, loads of the new Citadel pots, some of them. 1158 01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:46,640 What's that paint called by Essex Coat the Arms. 1159 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,720 Now, that was the first stuff that I bought when I got back 1160 01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,280 into the hobby in 2018. And I had 24 years out. 1161 01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:58,320 And then suddenly one day just saw some photos of miniatures on 1162 01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:03,120 eBay and thought on Facebook. I thought, Oh yes, that my old 1163 01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:06,160 hobby, let's have a look on eBay and see if we can get some and 1164 01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:09,000 just start it up again. It was crazy really. 1165 01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:17,560 But my paint, my favorite paints are the layout, easy to use, 1166 01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:24,200 cheap, like £2.50 a bottle, good range of colours from the model 1167 01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:27,960 colour range, which is more sort of, you know, army colours, 1168 01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:32,600 German army, Russian army, American, etcetera, with Browns 1169 01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,040 and Leathers and stuff like that, silver gun metal, 1170 01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:36,880 etcetera. Really good base set. 1171 01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:40,640 And then the colour range for, you know, when you need to make 1172 01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:45,000 it pop. I do still like Citadel, but the 1173 01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:50,680 bloody pots, the parts drive me crazy, you know, and I'm sure 1174 01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:52,800 everyone who's listening would concur. 1175 01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:56,040 They knock over really easy, they don't seal up very well. 1176 01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,160 And the paint is good, The paint is fine. 1177 01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:03,560 It's a little thick sometimes, but I just don't like the pots 1178 01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:07,240 because I keep knocking them over or they they just dry up 1179 01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:09,560 too quick. So yeah, I'm dropping bottles 1180 01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:13,240 for me and the layout tend to make the best ones that I've 1181 01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:16,240 used. Proacryl. 1182 01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:18,320 Have you tried those? Sorry, which one? 1183 01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:22,240 Proacryl you buy monument hobbies. 1184 01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:24,440 I've heard good things about them. 1185 01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:28,320 So I'm yeah, I'm sort of looking at, because I look at Duncan 1186 01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:31,000 Rhodes paints as well and that kind of interests me as well. 1187 01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:35,120 I like the colour he's chosen and, and the way he's laid out. 1188 01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:39,440 All those paint sets. I saw Cerissa selling the entire 1189 01:12:39,440 --> 01:12:44,040 like as you can buy them in like blocks of like, you know, wave 1190 01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:46,520 one, wave 2 with the actual. Exactly. 1191 01:12:46,520 --> 01:12:50,000 As well, so that that seems interesting. 1192 01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:53,400 They're in drop of bottles, which I like, but like I said, 1193 01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:57,280 there's just a wealth of paint ranges out there which are 1194 01:12:57,320 --> 01:13:01,640 either confined to the country where they, where they're 1195 01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:04,320 produced in or they're, you know, they've export them out to 1196 01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:06,720 different countries. The availability is a, is a big 1197 01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:09,800 thing with the layer for me. It's my preferred paint. 1198 01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:11,880 I've used it now for like over 20 years. 1199 01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:16,640 Never been disappointed with a colour, very accessible, very 1200 01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,400 affordable. But like you man, I'm, I'm 1201 01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,320 always looking to try. Oh, I wouldn't mind giving that 1202 01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:24,240 a go. Maybe there's some really nice 1203 01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:27,200 colours they've got in there. Maybe the paint flows better or 1204 01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,000 you know, they've just got a, a new take on it. 1205 01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,720 I mean paints paint at the end of the day. 1206 01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:33,120 Exactly. Yeah. 1207 01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:37,320 And I don't believe in being partisan about these things. 1208 01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:43,920 You know, for me, I am so basic. Like I'd prefer to just have a 1209 01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:46,640 basic range. And I like mixing paints. 1210 01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:50,360 You know, if I need to create a green, I'm not going to just go 1211 01:13:50,360 --> 01:13:53,640 out and buy that shade of green because it says so in a 1212 01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:55,120 magazine. You know, I'll just make that 1213 01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:58,960 green with my eye and it won't be the same green as the last 1214 01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:02,200 time. So if I have two orcs and you 1215 01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:04,200 know, they're, they're possibly going to be slightly different 1216 01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:07,440 colours, that's fine. People, people in the real world 1217 01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:09,720 are slightly different colours, you know what I mean? 1218 01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:14,840 So it doesn't matter to me. It's, it's about the coverage, 1219 01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,160 the availability. You, you're a professional 1220 01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:19,680 painter. So, you know, if you favour them 1221 01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:21,840 then I think I'm on the right track. 1222 01:14:22,440 --> 01:14:25,440 Yeah, like for layman, as soon as I make the switch from those 1223 01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:29,200 crappy Citadel pots, from I don't know, when I was buying 1224 01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:33,200 them, 2000, 2001, 2002, something like that, when I 1225 01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:36,080 found about found out about Vallejo, that was it. 1226 01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:37,960 I was totally sold on that entire range. 1227 01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:41,240 It was so good. The first time I ever had a 1228 01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:43,960 dropper bottle, you know, for example, I've never had a paint 1229 01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,040 in a dropper bottle before. That was revolutionary in 1230 01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:49,760 itself. But the way we acted on the, on 1231 01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:54,080 the palette, the way it would, it would blend perfectly, the 1232 01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:58,960 way it would dry. And yeah, just just the, just 1233 01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:02,640 the nature of the, the, the paint itself was just miles 1234 01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,240 ahead of what Citadel were doing. 1235 01:15:04,240 --> 01:15:08,880 And yeah, I've tried some of the Citadel stuff nowadays and 1236 01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:11,720 they're hit and miss. I I think the, the air range is 1237 01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:14,960 very good. It's like it like a gelled up 1238 01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:16,880 ink. That's that's got some really 1239 01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:21,440 good uses. Do you use what you do you use? 1240 01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:22,600 Sorry to cut you off there, Josh. 1241 01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:27,040 Do you use an airbrush then? Yeah, I use an airbrush when I'm 1242 01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:29,920 doing priming or base coats or some stuff as well. 1243 01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:36,840 But yeah, but yeah, I'm always up to trying new things. 1244 01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:39,680 There are some really good paints out there for different 1245 01:15:39,680 --> 01:15:41,080 applications depending what you're doing. 1246 01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:42,280 I mean, you're not an army painter. 1247 01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:44,880 You, you paint, you know, single miniatures. 1248 01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,520 And I think that's, that's a good thing for you to have like 1249 01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:50,160 a limited amount of palette, but you, you mix up your paints to 1250 01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:54,560 get whatever hues you need. You don't need, you know, 10,000 1251 01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:56,400 paints, you know, that's, that's not what you need. 1252 01:15:56,400 --> 01:16:01,920 You know, I probably need. It's kind of, there's other, you 1253 01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:06,000 know, there's other factors at play and in terms of I don't 1254 01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,640 have a dedicated hobby space, I sort of like double up my office 1255 01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,520 space where I work because I'm self-employed. 1256 01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:17,440 So like in the day it's work zone and in the evenings it's 1257 01:16:17,440 --> 01:16:21,400 paint zone. So I kind of have limited 1258 01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:23,320 storage. I've got cabinets in there and 1259 01:16:23,320 --> 01:16:26,800 I've got enough room for my hobby kit, but the hobby kits 1260 01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:28,680 will have to take a bit of a back seat. 1261 01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:31,880 And I think, look, I've got every type of paint. 1262 01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:35,480 I've got black and brown and white and red and yellow, blue 1263 01:16:35,480 --> 01:16:39,320 and green and all the many shades in between. 1264 01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:43,000 I go into the paint shop sometimes or bottle shops and I 1265 01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:46,400 see all these huge racks of different stuff and I think, Oh 1266 01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:49,280 yeah, I should buy that. And then I go, no, you don't 1267 01:16:49,280 --> 01:16:52,720 bloody need it. You've got like 5 yellows, what 1268 01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:53,720 do you need? Another one? 1269 01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,560 So I stop, you know, just think, come on man, think about 1270 01:16:57,560 --> 01:17:00,440 storage, think about where it's going to go, you know? 1271 01:17:00,480 --> 01:17:03,720 So I'm just getting sensible in my old age. 1272 01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:06,480 I'm sure there's people who collect paints. 1273 01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:07,760 I'm sure I'm going to have to find. 1274 01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:11,880 I've noticed I've, I've, well, I met AI know a guy back in 1275 01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:14,240 Australia who did that. He had like just drawers and 1276 01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:18,040 cupboards full of them. He would collect everything, all 1277 01:17:18,040 --> 01:17:21,040 different kinds of paints, which, yeah, I mean, I'm 1278 01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:22,320 interested in paints. I love paints. 1279 01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:24,880 I use them all the time. So yeah, it's cool. 1280 01:17:24,880 --> 01:17:26,880 But I, I, I again, it's like space. 1281 01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:29,360 Where the hell I'm going to put all this stuff, You know how? 1282 01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:30,280 How far are you? Live. 1283 01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,600 How many summers survive, you know, before they drop? 1284 01:17:34,400 --> 01:17:36,120 Exactly. It's a science in itself though, 1285 01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:38,560 isn't it? Because some people like they 1286 01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:43,480 are the oracles of paint and they know exactly oh, like 1287 01:17:43,480 --> 01:17:49,080 Citadel sunburst yellow, the equivalent in Valeo is whatever 1288 01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:51,280 number. And I'm just like, wow, how can 1289 01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:53,440 you know all that stuff? Maybe just got it up in the 1290 01:17:53,440 --> 01:17:56,640 head. So it's kudos to them, I say. 1291 01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:02,360 Yeah, so talking about paints and painters, yeah, who are your 1292 01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:05,760 sort of painting heroes out in the hobby, like past or present? 1293 01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:07,760 Yeah. Oh, OK. 1294 01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:09,520 Well, gosh, there's lots, isn't there? 1295 01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:12,880 I mean, back in the day I have to keep, I keep going back to 1296 01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,680 Kenny Crow and I don't think he'd paint this anymore. 1297 01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:18,680 But I just, you know, I wish people, I wish there was some 1298 01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:22,040 images of Kenny's stuff. I'll have to contact him. 1299 01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:24,400 Actually, I did find him on LinkedIn and I've quick chat 1300 01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:29,000 with him, but I'm going to contact him and see if he's got 1301 01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:31,160 any pictures of his own stuff because he was a really good 1302 01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:33,960 painter. And so he is still a hero of 1303 01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:36,560 mine. Someone like, I don't have many 1304 01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:41,640 hero heroes, but I think people who, what's the word, they're 1305 01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:43,640 mentors, aren't they? You know, people like role 1306 01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:48,880 models who guide you in a moment where, you know, you could turn 1307 01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:52,240 to drinking and smoking and being a hoodlum and actually you 1308 01:18:52,240 --> 01:18:56,200 get into Warhammer and painting and doing art. 1309 01:18:56,200 --> 01:19:00,720 So yeah, Kenny. Kenny was one John Blanche, I 1310 01:19:00,760 --> 01:19:03,120 have to say. I know it's a bit of a hope, 1311 01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:07,360 John take this in the light, in the right spirit, but it sounds 1312 01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,920 like sometimes it's a bit of a cliche to say John Blanche, John 1313 01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:14,160 Blanche. And but John Blanche was the guy 1314 01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:18,600 who whose work I saw in White Dwarf illuminations. 1315 01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:23,960 He was the guy whose conversions I saw, you know, where he was 1316 01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:29,240 making a minor tour and, and and change the axe and change the 1317 01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:33,640 head and made it into a 2 headed monitor and then painted a 1318 01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:37,200 freehand Mona Lisa. And I was just like, what the 1319 01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:39,480 hell is this? And how has he done it? 1320 01:19:39,480 --> 01:19:42,840 And the textures that he used in those days, he used to sort of 1321 01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:47,400 use a lot of millipot to glue everything together and then he 1322 01:19:47,400 --> 01:19:51,520 paint his free hand and then spray it all with like 50 1323 01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:53,680 million layers of varnish or whatever. 1324 01:19:53,720 --> 01:19:58,040 And it was so smooth and glossy and it was like nothing else 1325 01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:03,320 that anyone had ever done. So yeah, John totally is a hero 1326 01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:07,680 of mine. I won't say the next chap is a 1327 01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:10,040 hero of mine because he was an adversary. 1328 01:20:10,360 --> 01:20:15,440 The chap at school, both he and I used to take figures in and 1329 01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:17,440 show the other kids occasionally and. 1330 01:20:18,280 --> 01:20:22,440 A little Commission business started to grow up and with all 1331 01:20:22,440 --> 01:20:24,600 the kids saying will you paint my figures, will you paint my 1332 01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:27,160 figures? And this guy Jonathan Collins, 1333 01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:32,920 he, he was very unencouraging to my work. 1334 01:20:33,040 --> 01:20:35,920 Yeah, yeah, not as good as me. My stuff's way better. 1335 01:20:36,160 --> 01:20:39,320 And to be fair, looking back at it, it's stuff was very good. 1336 01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:44,080 It was even did non metallic metal painting in those days, 1337 01:20:44,440 --> 01:20:48,720 which I thought was crap back then and all don't love it, to 1338 01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:51,600 be honest. But when it's done well, it's 1339 01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:54,960 really, you know, amazing. But he was experimenting with 1340 01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:57,160 that stuff in the in the late 80s. 1341 01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:03,040 So I mentioned him him not to deride him, but to just say he 1342 01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:06,560 helped spur me on and keep going because I don't like to be 1343 01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:10,040 beaten. And so, you know, I kept 1344 01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:12,560 painting and I think, I don't know whether he did or not, but 1345 01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:16,480 he definitely gave me a kick on the backside when I was being 1346 01:21:16,480 --> 01:21:19,320 lazy with it, you know? Yeah, that's, that's a good 1347 01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:24,040 point. I mean, having a rival, I'm sure 1348 01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:28,400 people who competed in Golden Demon and who do that now have 1349 01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:30,040 that same relationship with other people. 1350 01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:32,920 They might be friends, they might be adversaries or 1351 01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:35,560 whatever, but they're looking at each other's work and then 1352 01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,400 they're competing against each other to to self improve. 1353 01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,640 And I think that's the way you do get better because you are 1354 01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:45,680 aiming for a certain level, whether it be a competition 1355 01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:48,920 level or just personal level. And then you're you're, you 1356 01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:51,480 know, I'm always comparing my stuff with other people's stuff 1357 01:21:51,480 --> 01:21:53,000 online. I mean, it's not hard to do. 1358 01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:56,560 You mean you just go to Instagram and you'll find 10,000 1359 01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,600 beautifully painted models. And you're just saying, wow, you 1360 01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:02,520 know, these these people are really super talented. 1361 01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:07,120 And, and I'm. Yeah, well, I'm always trying to 1362 01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:11,520 improve myself. But yeah, it's that's that's. 1363 01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:13,880 You're going to get better. Exactly. 1364 01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:18,160 I mean, I don't, you know, that I'm not really a name dropper or 1365 01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:22,760 anything like that because I don't want to specifically never 1366 01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:25,800 been one of these people who loves to just kiss up to the 1367 01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:29,040 established painters who are well known or whatever. 1368 01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:34,240 But the Instagram is where I found some really beautiful 1369 01:22:34,240 --> 01:22:39,480 people who are both great painters and absolutely 1370 01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:44,480 brilliant human beings. You know, through Instagram and 1371 01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:48,960 and the painting, I have met lots of old hammer painters 1372 01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:51,440 because I really only do old hammer. 1373 01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:54,600 To be fair, I do one or two others, but mostly old hammer. 1374 01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:59,360 And you know, I sort of made a list of some of the more famous 1375 01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:03,880 ones like Vince Venturella and Roman Lapat, etcetera, that 1376 01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:08,120 those guys are amazing. But then there's the smaller 1377 01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:12,200 chaps, you know, like Tom Riley, who goes by the name of 1378 01:23:12,360 --> 01:23:16,080 Knollbrush Kettle Trout, who is Andrew McDonald. 1379 01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:20,600 Those guys I've met, I've been to Bring out Your Lead, I've met 1380 01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:23,280 them in person. We've had great chats, you know, 1381 01:23:23,280 --> 01:23:28,960 stuff eating food, pouring over the models, like old mates, like 1382 01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:33,440 from school kind of thing. You know, there's so many 1383 01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:38,880 talented painters on there. Chat called Alex, who goes by 1384 01:23:38,960 --> 01:23:47,240 Oriental Heroes, you know, the Games Workshop girl, Sorry Lady 1385 01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:52,440 Louise Sugden, her use of colour just out of this world. 1386 01:23:52,440 --> 01:23:56,000 I mean I've seen her paintings at Games Workshop and I don't 1387 01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:57,120 think she works for them anymore. 1388 01:23:57,120 --> 01:23:58,280 She does her own thing, don't she? 1389 01:23:58,280 --> 01:24:04,400 But the the level does have a lot of brush work. 1390 01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:07,040 I just think I just couldn't get near that stuff. 1391 01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:11,120 That's awesome mate. I'm I'm glad you got to meet 1392 01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:16,280 some of your heroes at the bring out your LED events as well and 1393 01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:17,400 you. Stand out moments. 1394 01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:20,760 Any stand out moments? Any stand out moments for you 1395 01:24:20,760 --> 01:24:23,960 personally meeting your your heroes at the bring out LED 1396 01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:26,160 events? Yeah, well, I mean, when I say 1397 01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:29,480 not heroes like Tom and and Andrew are, you know, their 1398 01:24:29,480 --> 01:24:33,600 mates and but they're people who I admire their work. 1399 01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:38,880 And then I did get to chat to Tony Ackland. 1400 01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:43,760 Funnily enough, he spent a lot of time in Derbyshire where I 1401 01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:47,440 grew up. We, we talked about that. 1402 01:24:47,440 --> 01:24:50,280 We talked about the caves and Castleton and, and places in 1403 01:24:50,280 --> 01:24:53,520 Derbyshire. I then when I was a young man, I 1404 01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:56,440 lived in, in Staffordshire in the city of Stoke on Trent. 1405 01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,200 Oddly enough, he'd spent lots of time there as well. 1406 01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:02,320 So we had about 3 hour conversation and he's thinking, 1407 01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:06,280 this is the guy whose work I just literally drooled over for 1408 01:25:06,280 --> 01:25:07,800 years. And we just sat talking about 1409 01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:14,320 old powers and, and I met Brian Ansell down at Foundry as well 1410 01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:17,280 and he gave us a bit of a tour of the gardens and stuff and 1411 01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:20,080 just he was just such a down to earth man. 1412 01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:25,880 You know, considering that he created this huge empire and he 1413 01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:31,480 started the careers of so many people, he was just super down 1414 01:25:31,480 --> 01:25:36,960 to earth, nice bloke. I was just so proud to meet 1415 01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:41,080 people like that and proud to see that they were normal 1416 01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:42,480 people. You know, they weren't 1417 01:25:42,680 --> 01:25:44,960 condescending. They weren't on the high horse. 1418 01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,440 I'm I'm the big I am none of that. 1419 01:25:47,440 --> 01:25:52,720 They were just really nice guys. Yeah, I love that. 1420 01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:55,400 And of course, you meet other people there. 1421 01:25:55,440 --> 01:25:59,560 You know Tim Prow who who used to paint in the Heavy Metal team 1422 01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:05,280 know Tim and they've done a bit of marketing work with Tim for 1423 01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:09,480 his Die Hard Miniatures range. Who else have pumped into 1424 01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:11,960 various famous Trish Trish garden? 1425 01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:15,040 Yeah, I'm one of two others. Anyway, I don't want to do name 1426 01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:18,040 dropping, but yeah, there's some amazing people who go there. 1427 01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:20,600 So it's a it's a feast every time. 1428 01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:23,120 Wonderful. Oh, that's good mate. 1429 01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:25,080 Now. You have never been. 1430 01:26:25,480 --> 01:26:28,840 No, no, I've never been mad. It's quite, quite a, quite a 1431 01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:32,240 journey to get to, to the UK for me from here in Japan. 1432 01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:37,280 And yeah, of course, quite a costly holiday, but one day I'd 1433 01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:40,040 like to I'm I'm just really gutted I never got to meet Brian 1434 01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:41,840 in person. Like to shake his hand and say 1435 01:26:42,480 --> 01:26:44,440 thanks for giving us this hobby, mate. 1436 01:26:44,440 --> 01:26:48,160 You know, like without Brian, I, you know, I just wouldn't have 1437 01:26:48,160 --> 01:26:50,440 discovered he requests. I wouldn't have got into the 1438 01:26:50,440 --> 01:26:52,520 hobby, wouldn't have gone into like miniature painting. 1439 01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:58,120 And in a sense, like I, I came into the hobby right at the end 1440 01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:03,760 of his his error and went into the Tom Kirby corporate era of 1441 01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,960 gangs workshop. But I really became to respect 1442 01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:11,440 what he did coming back into the hobby, learning more about, you 1443 01:27:11,440 --> 01:27:13,640 know, games works how how it sort of started. 1444 01:27:15,480 --> 01:27:18,360 Yeah, yeah, I've got, I've got lots of admiration for the guy. 1445 01:27:18,440 --> 01:27:22,880 And so, yeah, without him, I don't think a lot of what we 1446 01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:26,920 recognize now as the game switch hobby would have existed without 1447 01:27:26,920 --> 01:27:28,880 him. You know, he was really that 1448 01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:31,360 obviously a financial driving force. 1449 01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:33,440 But of course, he, I think he put an arm around a lot of 1450 01:27:33,440 --> 01:27:37,040 people like Kev Adams. He nurtured a lot of good talent 1451 01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:39,880 at that time and sort of really pushed them to produce some of 1452 01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:41,160 the best stuff they've ever done. 1453 01:27:42,680 --> 01:27:45,880 And when you listen to the people on in interviews and 1454 01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:49,360 everything around that time, they just loved that that, that 1455 01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:52,520 that period of working for GW, it just seemed like a, an 1456 01:27:52,520 --> 01:27:55,480 absolute crazy madhouse. Like everyone was just, you 1457 01:27:55,480 --> 01:27:57,440 know, doing practical jokes on anybody else. 1458 01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:00,080 Everyone like the sculptors were, you know, taking the piss 1459 01:28:00,080 --> 01:28:02,920 out of maybe the artists or whatever, you know, like there 1460 01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:05,400 was just, they're just running Amark and it just wasn't really 1461 01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:08,480 a what you would consider kind of normal workplace. 1462 01:28:08,480 --> 01:28:11,280 It was just like a bunch of creative people all getting 1463 01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:14,560 together and producing all this amazing stuff that. 1464 01:28:14,560 --> 01:28:17,440 Must have been, I mean, that must have been really beautiful 1465 01:28:17,440 --> 01:28:23,120 because I think at that time I sort of had this thing in my 1466 01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:25,160 head that yeah, that's the job I want to do. 1467 01:28:25,160 --> 01:28:28,960 I want to go and get and work for Games Workshop on the Heavy 1468 01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:31,720 Metal team and I think, I think I'm not. 1469 01:28:31,720 --> 01:28:34,400 I wrote a letter about it, you know, to try and find out, but 1470 01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:38,960 just realise that there weren't that many painters in that team 1471 01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:42,600 or at that time that I just realised that the Phil, this is 1472 01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:45,480 not going to happen me. It's just not going to happen. 1473 01:28:45,480 --> 01:28:49,760 There's too many great people on that team, you know, with Tim 1474 01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:56,800 and Mike McVeigh and, you know, Phil Lewis and those people in 1475 01:28:56,800 --> 01:28:58,640 there, you just think, well, you're not going to get in 1476 01:28:58,640 --> 01:29:00,680 there. So I guess it kind of went away. 1477 01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:02,880 But you, you'd got to work there, didn't you? 1478 01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:05,200 So. Very briefly, yeah, very 1479 01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:07,600 briefly. But yeah, great time, mate. 1480 01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:11,880 It was great time. It was like the that was in the 1481 01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:15,800 new, that was that was not, that wasn't in the original studio. 1482 01:29:17,440 --> 01:29:21,320 That was in the sort of the new studio there in Nottingham next 1483 01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:24,560 to the. It was next to the Robin Hoods 1484 01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:27,840 or Sherwood Forest's caves or something like that, like Robin 1485 01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:29,800 Hood's cave. Right. 1486 01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:30,680 OK. Yeah. 1487 01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:32,680 I don't think I ever went past that. 1488 01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:35,640 Any, I was like, it's like this Main High Street and you'd walk 1489 01:29:35,640 --> 01:29:38,800 down and you'd have the the studio there and next to the 1490 01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:42,400 studio were the set of caves where apparently Robin Hood and 1491 01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:46,680 his merry men would hide in that. 1492 01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:48,360 I don't know. I, I never, I never really 1493 01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:52,080 visited that part of, I never didn't really go around much of. 1494 01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:54,480 I didn't really see much of Nottingham when I was there to 1495 01:29:54,480 --> 01:29:56,480 be honest. I was always going home to work 1496 01:29:56,480 --> 01:29:58,320 and vice versa, you know what I mean? 1497 01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:01,440 Like I didn't really get to explore much of the UK when I 1498 01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:03,760 was there, unfortunately. I'd like to go back again at 1499 01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:05,320 some point and and check out yeah. 1500 01:30:05,480 --> 01:30:07,080 Well, you know you'll have to come. 1501 01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:12,520 We'll, I'm sure me and numerous other people help you out when 1502 01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:18,120 come and go for a pint and I can, if you're interested in the 1503 01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:20,600 Robin Hood stuff. Like even though I live up in 1504 01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:23,840 Derbyshire and I'm originally from Derbyshire, sort of lived 1505 01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:27,880 away and then came back. Back in the day. 1506 01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:31,120 Sherwood Forest used to run much, but it wasn't just 1507 01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:33,760 Nottingham. It was like the whole what we 1508 01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,320 call the East Midlands. I mean, you sort of would run 1509 01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:39,080 from Nottingham right across up to Sheffield. 1510 01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:45,800 And where I grew up was sort of on the border of High Peak and 1511 01:30:46,120 --> 01:30:48,920 what we would call the edge of Sheffield now. 1512 01:30:48,920 --> 01:30:51,760 And there's a little village there called Haversage, and 1513 01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:54,880 that's where little John was reputedly from. 1514 01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:58,200 There was a grave. Yeah, that's, there's a grave in 1515 01:30:58,200 --> 01:31:02,200 the churchyard there that is claimed to be him and was 1516 01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:05,440 apparently once exhumed. And they found a very large 1517 01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:10,920 thigh bone, which was indicative of a man about 7 feet tall, 1518 01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:13,080 apparently. Yeah. 1519 01:31:13,080 --> 01:31:14,920 I don't know how much truth there is in that, you know, 1520 01:31:14,920 --> 01:31:17,240 because there's local myths and all that business, isn't there. 1521 01:31:17,240 --> 01:31:19,040 But. But yeah, it's not too far away 1522 01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:21,200 from where I live now. Probably about 20 minutes so. 1523 01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:24,440 That's fascinating, Yeah. That's got such a wealth of 1524 01:31:24,440 --> 01:31:28,760 history in the UK that I didn't really have an appreciation for 1525 01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:32,960 it then, but now I'd love to go back and and check out all those 1526 01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:36,200 sort of historical sites. And yeah, and like Wales as 1527 01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:37,160 well. I think Wales is another 1528 01:31:37,160 --> 01:31:40,520 fascinating country as well. Oh, yeah, yeah, totally. 1529 01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:46,160 There's so many cans and, and old castles and such like. 1530 01:31:46,680 --> 01:31:50,600 But yeah, there's round here. There's just about 3 miles from 1531 01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:54,280 where I live, there's a rock called Robin Hood Stride, where 1532 01:31:54,280 --> 01:31:57,240 Robin Hood was reputed to hang out. 1533 01:31:57,560 --> 01:32:01,080 And there's a huge rocky outcrop called Stanage Edge. 1534 01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:03,560 And on there, there's Robin Hood's cave, where apparently he 1535 01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:06,960 used to hide out as well. So whether he was ever real, we 1536 01:32:06,960 --> 01:32:07,720 don't know. Do we? 1537 01:32:07,720 --> 01:32:11,760 Bought, you know, it all plays into the the romance of it, 1538 01:32:11,800 --> 01:32:13,120 doesn't it? That's right. 1539 01:32:13,120 --> 01:32:14,680 OK. But we're going to go to another 1540 01:32:14,680 --> 01:32:18,200 ad break and when we come back, we're going to talk about some 1541 01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:20,520 miniatures you'd like to buy but you don't have. 1542 01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:21,680 So we'll be back in just a moment. 1543 01:32:23,480 --> 01:32:26,240 If you are enjoying this podcast and the content on the Crown of 1544 01:32:26,240 --> 01:32:29,360 Command Games YouTube channel, then please consider supporting 1545 01:32:29,360 --> 01:32:32,760 me on Patreon. Becoming a Storm Boy allows you 1546 01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:37,120 access to behind the scene news, information of upcoming podcast 1547 01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:40,680 guests and themes, video battle reports, and occasionally 1548 01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:44,280 exclusive podcasts with special guests or fellow patrons. 1549 01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:48,400 And coming soon are painting videos, which we made to give 1550 01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:51,960 you the skills and tips on painting in the red period using 1551 01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:54,400 modern paints and practical applications. 1552 01:32:55,120 --> 01:32:58,480 And you can also access 1 to one painting lessons in the heavy 1553 01:32:58,480 --> 01:33:02,080 LED Master class tier for a 40 minute personalized painting 1554 01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:07,120 lesson. So check out patreon.com/the 1555 01:33:07,120 --> 01:33:12,320 Crown of Command podcast. So tell us Phil, what are the 1556 01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:14,000 miniatures you'd like to buy? B Don't have? 1557 01:33:14,000 --> 01:33:18,440 I'm sure you have quite a few. Oh, there are so many out there, 1558 01:33:18,440 --> 01:33:23,280 you know, and like every miniature collector or painter, 1559 01:33:24,600 --> 01:33:30,280 you sort of have to temper your crazy urges to buy, buy, buy 1560 01:33:30,280 --> 01:33:33,920 because you just can't paint everything that you've got. 1561 01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:39,200 I do try, but I go through bits and starts of painting, so I'm 1562 01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:42,960 going to rattle a few off and just see what people think. 1563 01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:47,320 I mean, I really like Other World Miniatures. 1564 01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:51,320 I don't know if you've heard of that company, they've got some 1565 01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:54,800 fantastic figures, but apparently they've just sold the 1566 01:33:54,800 --> 01:34:00,720 range and the whole range has been split up and going off to 1567 01:34:00,720 --> 01:34:03,880 different stables, which is really sad and I'm so fed up 1568 01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:06,920 that I didn't buy their stuff beforehand. 1569 01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:12,360 But Pig face, dorks from Other World Miniatures and then the 1570 01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:15,360 old minifig skeletons, do, you know, they're like 28 1571 01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:18,960 millimetres and kind of cute and they haven't really got any 1572 01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:21,720 features. And they've got a huge bell like 1573 01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:26,320 they're pulling. And they remind me of, is it 1574 01:34:26,360 --> 01:34:31,360 Hieronymous Bosch's paintings or no hands, Peter Bruegel, the 1575 01:34:31,640 --> 01:34:35,280 March of Death. You know, I think it's a Black 1576 01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:39,560 Sabbath album cover as well. Those skeletons, I really love 1577 01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:40,840 them. I don't, they're not really 1578 01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:43,040 great sculpts or anything like that, but there's some 1579 01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:44,920 nostalgic. I really want to get some of 1580 01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:49,720 those. I don't know if you're familiar 1581 01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:51,920 with Grenadier miniatures at all. 1582 01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:55,240 Yeah, they've been around for. Well, are they still around? 1583 01:34:55,240 --> 01:34:56,560 Because they're around, they're around. 1584 01:34:56,560 --> 01:35:00,240 Yeah, they're around by proxies, aren't they? 1585 01:35:00,440 --> 01:35:03,840 I think there's an Italian company called Melliton or 1586 01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:06,120 Merliton. I don't know if I'm saying that 1587 01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:10,200 correctly, but but they they still make them and you can 1588 01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:13,040 order them. You can buy them from a couple 1589 01:35:13,040 --> 01:35:18,040 of other companies. EM4 Miniatures sell some. 1590 01:35:18,200 --> 01:35:21,480 And I think there is another company, I can't quite remember 1591 01:35:21,480 --> 01:35:26,760 the name of them, but they used to do some brilliant giant 1592 01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:32,440 skeletons like a death giant, which was like a sort of like a 1593 01:35:32,440 --> 01:35:36,320 grim Reaper without the without the scythe. 1594 01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:38,520 And he had a lamp in his hand and a big cloak. 1595 01:35:38,520 --> 01:35:42,520 And I always wanted that figure. Used to see it in the window of 1596 01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:46,000 BT's at Sheffield. Now it was in the window, but 1597 01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:49,280 they never had it in stock. And I used to say tell me the 1598 01:35:49,280 --> 01:35:50,960 one in the window. And it was like, no, I'm not 1599 01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:56,120 selling it. So yeah, there's that. 1600 01:35:56,280 --> 01:36:01,800 And I had a skeletal mammoth from Grenadier, and I had it for 1601 01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:05,280 years as a diorama, and then it got broken and it was just in 1602 01:36:05,280 --> 01:36:08,720 bits and bits and bits in my house for years. 1603 01:36:09,640 --> 01:36:13,200 And I think my daughter was about 9:00 or so. 1604 01:36:13,360 --> 01:36:15,400 And we were just going through our box. 1605 01:36:15,440 --> 01:36:19,000 We found it. And I said, I'm never going to 1606 01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:21,920 make this again. I'm not into Warhammer anymore. 1607 01:36:22,280 --> 01:36:25,920 And I threw it away. Threw it away in the bin. 1608 01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:31,000 Oh my God, what was I thinking? So yeah, I'd really like to get 1609 01:36:31,000 --> 01:36:35,400 that. And, you know, there's loads of 1610 01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:36,840 figures and there's too many to name. 1611 01:36:36,840 --> 01:36:40,800 Marauder, giant gobbling fanatics, I love the Asgard 1612 01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:46,880 Barbarians, gene stealers, dark future, all of that old stuff. 1613 01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:49,680 Anyway, what about you? Have you got any of anything 1614 01:36:49,680 --> 01:36:51,200 that you're really trying to get hold of? 1615 01:36:54,160 --> 01:37:00,920 You know, like if I to be honest, not really, no, I don't 1616 01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:02,360 think so. I think I'm pretty happy with 1617 01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:04,040 what I've got, to be honest, mate. 1618 01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:07,840 Wow. Like if I had like, let's say if 1619 01:37:07,840 --> 01:37:10,280 I had a ton of money and I could just choose whatever I wanted to 1620 01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:14,360 buy, I would actually go back into third edition and start 1621 01:37:14,360 --> 01:37:18,280 collecting a lot of the the Perry dwarf models, Imperial 1622 01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:22,600 dwarves and Norse dwarves of that because they were the first 1623 01:37:22,600 --> 01:37:25,040 dwarves I ever saw. Opening up my third edition 1624 01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:29,040 fantasy battle book. And I love that picture where 1625 01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:31,800 there's the the mighty fortress and the dwarves are besieging a 1626 01:37:31,800 --> 01:37:35,720 castle. And those particular dwarves are 1627 01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:39,680 like a lot. So yeah, I mean those and 1628 01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:42,720 probably a lot of the early Kev Adams miniatures as well. 1629 01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:45,400 The The Orton Goblins from 3rd edition. 1630 01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:48,400 Yeah, you're a big third edition guy. 1631 01:37:48,600 --> 01:37:51,040 I think you you, you're a little bit younger than me. 1632 01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:54,440 Well, I'm, well, I, I, I'm not really. 1633 01:37:54,440 --> 01:37:56,400 I mean, I got, I got into the. Hobby through third. 1634 01:37:56,400 --> 01:38:00,240 Edition, but it was only just looking at the pictures I I just 1635 01:38:00,240 --> 01:38:03,320 didn't know how the game mechanically worked. 1636 01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:06,920 And. 4th edition came and then I just picked up that set and it 1637 01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:09,720 became a lot more easier to understand and you've got 1638 01:38:09,720 --> 01:38:14,320 miniatures and, and away I went. But I, I did pick up the, the 1639 01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:19,360 earlier, well, not the regiments of Renown, but the regiments of 1640 01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:23,120 Renown, the, the plastic drastic plastic set where you've got all 1641 01:38:23,120 --> 01:38:26,920 the plastic miniatures in the goblins and all that kind of 1642 01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:28,480 stuff. And a friend of mine got that 1643 01:38:28,480 --> 01:38:31,880 same set. So I think together we could 1644 01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:34,680 sort of, you know, scramble together enough models. 1645 01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:38,560 To sort of start. Experimenting with tabletop war 1646 01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:42,120 gaming, but never in the in the to the extent of actually having 1647 01:38:42,120 --> 01:38:44,680 a full game. It was kind of like just the 1648 01:38:44,760 --> 01:38:47,840 getting into the hobby, putting collecting the models was quite 1649 01:38:47,840 --> 01:38:50,480 difficult and then learning how to paint the miniatures and 1650 01:38:50,480 --> 01:38:54,320 everything as well. I mean, if if I could, I mean, 1651 01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:59,200 looking at Jeff from Oakbound Studios, I love his collection 1652 01:38:59,200 --> 01:39:01,880 of metal advanced here request models. 1653 01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:07,720 Yes, I'd love to get those as just a, you know that that 1654 01:39:07,720 --> 01:39:11,400 that's like almost impossible to get those without spending 1655 01:39:11,400 --> 01:39:13,000 hundreds and hundreds of dollars on them. 1656 01:39:13,240 --> 01:39:15,720 I don't really need them, but they'd be nice to have as a 1657 01:39:15,720 --> 01:39:17,560 collection. Nice to have. 1658 01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:20,400 That's it, isn't it? There's a lot of stuff like that 1659 01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:26,760 now. I mean in terms of I think might 1660 01:39:26,760 --> 01:39:30,360 be controversial in old hammer circles, but I personally feel 1661 01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:34,840 like old hammer is coming to a zenith almost. 1662 01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:40,320 You know, a few years ago you could pick up any good quality 1663 01:39:40,320 --> 01:39:45,840 old hammer figures to what I've called reasonable money. eBay 1664 01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:49,320 has now become quite expensive in my opinion. 1665 01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:52,400 Like if you're a collector, I guess it isn't. 1666 01:39:52,720 --> 01:39:54,760 I guess it isn't if I'm being honest. 1667 01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:58,680 And you know, it's probably like if you're, if you're a big, if 1668 01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:01,760 you're big into the figures and you're really obsessing about 1669 01:40:01,760 --> 01:40:04,720 collecting every figure from every range or whatever range it 1670 01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:08,120 is that you're really into, then I guess it's not too much to 1671 01:40:08,320 --> 01:40:11,880 spend 10 lbs on one walk or one out for whatever. 1672 01:40:12,120 --> 01:40:17,400 But me personally, I love the the hobby for what it is, but 1673 01:40:17,400 --> 01:40:21,240 it's only. It's only miniatures in my 1674 01:40:21,240 --> 01:40:23,400 opinion. Like I love them, but it's only 1675 01:40:23,400 --> 01:40:25,040 miniatures. I mean, at the end of the day, 1676 01:40:25,040 --> 01:40:28,000 it's just a lumber lad. I love it, but it's just a 1677 01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:30,240 lumber lad. It's not, it's not worth, you 1678 01:40:30,240 --> 01:40:33,000 know, playing £40 for one figure in my opinion. 1679 01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:34,600 I just, I'm not ever going to do that. 1680 01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:37,600 It doesn't matter what rage it comes from. 1681 01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:42,840 I'm just not paying that money because I could take my wife out 1682 01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:45,760 for dinner or, you know, buy my daughter something. 1683 01:40:46,080 --> 01:40:48,160 It's money. You know, there are other ways 1684 01:40:48,160 --> 01:40:52,520 to spend that money. So, you know, I just look for 1685 01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:56,200 deals. And the old Sea Rangers, the 1686 01:40:56,200 --> 01:41:02,120 Orcs, you know, C15-C-16, the Perry Orcs, Perry skeletons, the 1687 01:41:02,120 --> 01:41:07,320 Amazons, the, the C30 Amazons, that C23 Ogres by Jess Goodwin, 1688 01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:12,120 the, that stuff that I'm always looking out for that stuff. 1689 01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:14,800 And if there's something that's just in the right price bracket, 1690 01:41:14,800 --> 01:41:19,600 I might buy it, but the ones I want are out of my price range 1691 01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:25,240 now. C28 demons like Hamratha Mangora 1692 01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:28,480 and D MAT guilty where they were, they were derided when I 1693 01:41:28,480 --> 01:41:31,160 was a kid, you know, my mate had them in a tin and we used to 1694 01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:33,760 look at them and go these, these are rubbish. 1695 01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:37,240 They've got no plastic bases. We don't like them. 1696 01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:40,400 You know, anything. That was, what's the word, pre 1697 01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:43,160 slaughter. You know, we hated it. 1698 01:41:43,160 --> 01:41:45,640 We, we hated it, actually hated it. 1699 01:41:47,240 --> 01:41:49,440 Now I love it. I can't get enough of that 1700 01:41:49,440 --> 01:41:53,040 stuff. But yeah, I'm not, I'm not 1701 01:41:53,040 --> 01:41:56,520 paying silly money for it. It just I've got hundreds of 1702 01:41:56,520 --> 01:41:58,400 figures in a box that I've not painted. 1703 01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:04,200 So if I if I never buy any old stuff again I've still got 1704 01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:06,160 enough to last me till I'm like 70? 1705 01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:10,280 I feel the same. I've got enough stuff here to to 1706 01:42:10,280 --> 01:42:13,960 get through that will take me years, if not a decade to get 1707 01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:16,520 through to fully finish everything that I have. 1708 01:42:17,240 --> 01:42:18,480 Maybe maybe lessen it, I don't know. 1709 01:42:18,480 --> 01:42:20,800 It depends how fast you paint. Depends much time you want to 1710 01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:23,320 sink into it. But I'm always like retouching 1711 01:42:23,320 --> 01:42:26,120 up my stuff anyway. I paint the stuff like 5-6 years 1712 01:42:26,120 --> 01:42:28,160 ago. I want to go back over and, and 1713 01:42:28,160 --> 01:42:31,840 touch them up again and maybe, you know, redo some of the 1714 01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:34,040 banners. And I, I, I enjoy that part of 1715 01:42:34,040 --> 01:42:37,440 the the hobby as well. Yeah, yeah. 1716 01:42:37,480 --> 01:42:39,480 I think you can always make improvements, Scott. 1717 01:42:39,480 --> 01:42:43,040 You're looking back at stuff, spaces particularly. 1718 01:42:43,040 --> 01:42:46,760 I look at some of the bases that I did a few years ago, maybe, 1719 01:42:47,080 --> 01:42:49,960 you know, just straight three or four years ago and think, Oh 1720 01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:51,680 yeah, you were just coming back to the hobby there. 1721 01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:56,120 You didn't have a clue of like how much the base is important. 1722 01:42:56,160 --> 01:42:58,920 And yeah, I would like to go back and fix a lot of that 1723 01:42:58,920 --> 01:43:03,680 stuff, but it'll have to wait until I've sort of, you know, 1724 01:43:03,960 --> 01:43:06,520 made a serious dent on that lead pile. 1725 01:43:07,360 --> 01:43:09,720 Then again, too much new stuff as well. 1726 01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:13,840 Isn't there like, you know, so many kick starters going off all 1727 01:43:13,840 --> 01:43:18,160 the time with brand new miniatures being sculpted? 1728 01:43:20,240 --> 01:43:22,640 I mean there's a company out there called Crooked Dice and 1729 01:43:22,640 --> 01:43:28,160 they do loads of cool pulp stuff all from TV, you know the A-Team 1730 01:43:28,160 --> 01:43:33,000 or Battlestar Galactica type figures, anything like that. 1731 01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:37,360 You've got fantasy companies springing up in left, right and 1732 01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:39,480 centre. There's nightmare miniatures, 1733 01:43:39,480 --> 01:43:43,880 die hard miniatures. There's Chapa, I think he's 1734 01:43:43,880 --> 01:43:48,520 called Jamie Tranter, and he's just released some dwarfs that 1735 01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:51,280 I've been long in the making and I've been watching them for like 1736 01:43:51,280 --> 01:43:54,800 2 years on Facebook. I'm thinking this is just 1737 01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:57,880 beautiful little green sculpts and now he's released them. 1738 01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:02,800 I'm going to buy them after I didn't invest in the Kickstarter 1739 01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:04,680 actually, but I am going to pick some up. 1740 01:44:05,160 --> 01:44:08,120 They're just amazing. Yes, they're beautiful. 1741 01:44:08,120 --> 01:44:10,480 There's plenty of new stuff if you can't get the old stuff. 1742 01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:13,400 Yes, I think that's that's a good point. 1743 01:44:13,400 --> 01:44:17,040 I mean, and I always say to people, you know, and I'm 1744 01:44:17,040 --> 01:44:19,400 probably going to do some more, I'm going to highlight some more 1745 01:44:19,400 --> 01:44:24,440 companies now that produce new stuff, but with the old 1746 01:44:24,440 --> 01:44:26,480 aesthetics. And I think they're a great 1747 01:44:26,480 --> 01:44:29,000 alternative where you can support someone who's making 1748 01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:34,040 stuff now rather than, you know, feed someone's ego on eBay with 1749 01:44:34,240 --> 01:44:38,760 spending way over the the, you know, like a a reasonable amount 1750 01:44:38,760 --> 01:44:41,560 of money for stuff. There's great alternatives out 1751 01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:44,040 there that look very similar to well, they might be even 1752 01:44:44,040 --> 01:44:47,480 sculpted like Kev Adams does a lot of stuff, still does a lot 1753 01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:51,720 for various companies. So Otherworld was a great 1754 01:44:51,720 --> 01:44:54,520 company for that because they they did a lot of like DND 1755 01:44:54,640 --> 01:44:58,440 related miniatures, but beautiful sculpts made by Kev 1756 01:44:58,440 --> 01:45:02,840 Adams, made by Paul Muller, you know, EX or XGW guys. 1757 01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:04,240 Yeah. Yeah, I know, Paul. 1758 01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:06,920 Yeah, it's good. So, yeah, because some really 1759 01:45:06,920 --> 01:45:11,000 good stuff out there, there's great alternatives so you you 1760 01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:14,160 don't have to be forced down this very narrow path of 1761 01:45:14,160 --> 01:45:18,680 spending or investing thousands of dollars to get you dream 80s 1762 01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:20,480 or 90s army. You've got really good 1763 01:45:20,480 --> 01:45:24,240 alternatives out there to to do it at a budget, you know. 1764 01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:27,360 Yeah, exactly, Exactly. I know it's a bit of a hot 1765 01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:30,320 potato, you know, sort of. I don't shy away from 1766 01:45:30,400 --> 01:45:33,880 controversy in any way. I always just speak my mind and 1767 01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:36,360 it's only opinion at the end of the day, isn't it? 1768 01:45:36,360 --> 01:45:40,400 I mean, I'm not saying I'm right or anything like that, but I 1769 01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:42,960 read some of the Facebook forums, you know, and it's quite 1770 01:45:42,960 --> 01:45:46,760 a sort of polarized conversation where people say, God, the 1771 01:45:46,760 --> 01:45:49,680 prices are getting ridiculous. And then there's another group 1772 01:45:49,680 --> 01:45:53,240 of people who will say, well, it's totally worth it. 1773 01:45:53,240 --> 01:45:55,960 You know, an item is worth what the market says. 1774 01:45:55,960 --> 01:45:58,400 You will pay for it. I don't agree with that 1775 01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:02,160 personally, but you know, if you know, if you've got the money to 1776 01:46:02,160 --> 01:46:05,280 buy a spear, given it costs that I guess didn't get it. 1777 01:46:05,280 --> 01:46:10,400 But I kind of feel that then becomes an elitist hobby where 1778 01:46:10,400 --> 01:46:13,560 only people with lots of money. And don't get me wrong, you 1779 01:46:13,560 --> 01:46:17,880 know, I'm not rich and I'm I'm neither nor am I poor, but I 1780 01:46:17,880 --> 01:46:22,680 just kind of think I just don't want it to become an elitist 1781 01:46:22,680 --> 01:46:24,360 hobby. I want it to be more inclusive 1782 01:46:24,360 --> 01:46:27,680 where everyone can just afford the stuff and have the stuff we 1783 01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:31,040 want. I don't like the world where 1784 01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:35,880 something that we all used to be able to have, now we can't. 1785 01:46:36,040 --> 01:46:37,280 You know, I don't really love that. 1786 01:46:38,760 --> 01:46:40,640 Yep, absolutely. And I totally agree with that. 1787 01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:44,680 So yes, you'll, you'll find, if you have the will, you'll find 1788 01:46:44,680 --> 01:46:46,840 the way. So there's always people to help 1789 01:46:46,840 --> 01:46:50,480 you out in, in those cases. If you need something on 1790 01:46:50,480 --> 01:46:52,880 Facebook, they know who you are, they know you're genuine and all 1791 01:46:52,880 --> 01:46:54,240 that kind of thing. They'll, they're more than 1792 01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:58,880 willing to help you out, which I've been on the on, on that 1793 01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:03,440 receiving end many times through my quest to collect every single 1794 01:47:03,440 --> 01:47:08,160 Marauder dwarf that Ali Morrison ever designed through the years. 1795 01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:10,880 So it's been a fun journey. And that's half, that's half. 1796 01:47:10,880 --> 01:47:13,640 The great part of the hobbies is the collecting aspect. 1797 01:47:14,360 --> 01:47:16,240 Yeah, yeah. You know and. 1798 01:47:16,480 --> 01:47:19,400 And also the waiting though, like, you know, Ali Morrison's 1799 01:47:19,400 --> 01:47:21,320 stuff is great. I love that Ali's stuff. 1800 01:47:22,240 --> 01:47:27,120 But like sometimes what I've enjoyed about the hobby over 1801 01:47:27,120 --> 01:47:30,680 that since I came back in 2018 is the waiting. 1802 01:47:30,840 --> 01:47:35,320 Like you spot a figure and you think I really love that figure 1803 01:47:35,320 --> 01:47:39,400 from back in the day, but you can't find it or it's just too 1804 01:47:39,400 --> 01:47:42,520 expensive or whatever. And you just think, I'll just 1805 01:47:42,520 --> 01:47:43,960 wait, I'll just wait. I'll just wait. 1806 01:47:44,160 --> 01:47:45,840 And you keep waiting, keep waiting. 1807 01:47:45,880 --> 01:47:47,760 Keep looking on eBay, looking at the sales. 1808 01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:50,000 And then it comes up in a Facebook group and it's 1809 01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:51,360 affordable. And you go, yes. 1810 01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:54,680 And you send that message. You say, can I have that one? 1811 01:47:54,680 --> 01:47:57,680 And it comes back, yeah, it's yours. 1812 01:47:57,680 --> 01:48:02,120 And it's like send you 5 or 6 quid away and it comes and I 1813 01:48:02,120 --> 01:48:05,680 love that aspect of it. That's really a beautiful aspect 1814 01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:08,480 to the hobby. I think that there are so many 1815 01:48:08,480 --> 01:48:14,800 good people in the hobby who are not totally motivated by, you 1816 01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:18,800 know, making money out of it. It's just the love of sharing 1817 01:48:18,800 --> 01:48:22,320 old hammer with old hammers for sure, man. 1818 01:48:22,320 --> 01:48:27,400 So I really look, but it's as I said before, I think it's one of 1819 01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:31,880 the nicest hobbies and nicest online communities as well that 1820 01:48:31,880 --> 01:48:37,800 I've ever participated in because I work in tech and I 1821 01:48:37,800 --> 01:48:44,720 have done for the last 2526 years now and I've been part of 1822 01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:48,920 the Internet since it's sort of popular interception. 1823 01:48:49,000 --> 01:48:53,880 You know, like 9596, I was on the Internet and I've seen all 1824 01:48:53,880 --> 01:48:56,360 the forums and groups and blah, blah, blah. 1825 01:48:56,360 --> 01:49:00,600 And I honestly, the Warhammer community by and large, 1826 01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:03,240 particularly the old Hammer community, I'm going to just 1827 01:49:03,400 --> 01:49:06,760 separate it off a bit is so nice. 1828 01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:12,560 I mean, Warhammer as a as a larger vehicle, in some ways it 1829 01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:17,800 gets kind of hijacked, but sometimes by, you know, people 1830 01:49:17,800 --> 01:49:24,400 with macho ideas who get upset about women being in the hobby 1831 01:49:24,400 --> 01:49:29,080 or it has to be a purely European domain. 1832 01:49:29,080 --> 01:49:32,400 When I say European, I guess I mean sort of white people. 1833 01:49:32,400 --> 01:49:34,960 You can't have any black space Marines or you can't have any 1834 01:49:35,880 --> 01:49:39,360 female space Marines. I just think that's just, I 1835 01:49:39,360 --> 01:49:41,480 don't know. It just doesn't, it doesn't sit 1836 01:49:41,480 --> 01:49:45,440 well with me. It's too, too, I don't know what 1837 01:49:45,440 --> 01:49:49,480 the word is, elitist. There's room for everybody in my 1838 01:49:49,480 --> 01:49:51,800 opinion. I know some people get upset 1839 01:49:51,800 --> 01:49:57,840 about that idea, but you know, as a painter who is not, why in 1840 01:49:57,840 --> 01:50:02,640 the 1st place, you know, I just think, look, God, I'm into it. 1841 01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:05,680 So why would there not be a Space Marine who looks like me? 1842 01:50:06,240 --> 01:50:10,880 Of course there would be. Why would there not be a Ranger 1843 01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:12,720 who looks like me? There would be. 1844 01:50:13,480 --> 01:50:18,760 There would be so I think it's important to have women 1845 01:50:18,760 --> 01:50:20,920 characters in your in your collection. 1846 01:50:20,920 --> 01:50:23,520 I think it's important to have non white characters in your 1847 01:50:23,520 --> 01:50:28,080 collection if you want to sort of create a a balanced view in 1848 01:50:28,080 --> 01:50:31,000 the world. Maybe that's just, maybe that's 1849 01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:35,600 my politics coming out, but. Yeah, no, that's that's totally 1850 01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:36,720 insane. I think they're getting better 1851 01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:41,280 at that, you know, and. Yeah, I think they are too. 1852 01:50:41,280 --> 01:50:47,240 And I just want to see, I think a good example is Game of 1853 01:50:47,240 --> 01:50:50,440 Thrones seem to have sorted it out quite well. 1854 01:50:52,920 --> 01:50:57,640 Again, I know you can be a Tolkien purist, I love Tolkien, 1855 01:50:57,640 --> 01:50:59,040 and you can be a purist and stuff. 1856 01:50:59,480 --> 01:51:02,600 And I watched that Rings of Power, and lots of people sort 1857 01:51:02,600 --> 01:51:05,120 of slagged it off for numerous reasons. 1858 01:51:05,800 --> 01:51:10,480 But I didn't see the sort of ethnic diversity as a reason to 1859 01:51:10,480 --> 01:51:14,520 slag it off. I just saw that it, it wasn't 1860 01:51:14,520 --> 01:51:19,600 the best acting and writing in my opinion, but I, I didn't find 1861 01:51:19,600 --> 01:51:23,600 it weird that there were characters of different 1862 01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:26,480 ethnicities. It's just reflective of the real 1863 01:51:26,480 --> 01:51:30,040 world in my opinion, even if we're looking back, you know, in 1864 01:51:30,040 --> 01:51:33,960 a sort of medieval lens. So yeah, I just think people 1865 01:51:33,960 --> 01:51:37,880 need to move on and the, the VAT and the mass, the vast majority 1866 01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:41,280 of people do. It's it's just one or two people 1867 01:51:41,280 --> 01:51:44,600 who love to spoil it. It's funny because I think I'm 1868 01:51:44,600 --> 01:51:46,440 the only person who likes Rings of Power. 1869 01:51:46,680 --> 01:51:50,760 I really enjoyed that series. So I from start to finish and 1870 01:51:50,760 --> 01:51:53,480 I'm really looking forward to the next installment of that. 1871 01:51:53,480 --> 01:51:55,800 I think it's the end of August. It comes out. 1872 01:51:55,800 --> 01:51:58,720 I've actually got an Amazon account now back on for Amazon 1873 01:51:58,720 --> 01:52:00,200 Prime to watch it. Yeah. 1874 01:52:00,520 --> 01:52:03,000 I saw, I saw something on Instagram about it. 1875 01:52:03,000 --> 01:52:05,960 I think it's coming very soon. So it's good. 1876 01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:08,080 I I will watch it. I mean, don't get me wrong, I 1877 01:52:08,400 --> 01:52:11,560 hope the acting was not as good as it could be. 1878 01:52:12,520 --> 01:52:15,560 And the writing, again, some of it was a little bit late, but 1879 01:52:15,560 --> 01:52:17,880 it's like, come on, just get to the bloody point. 1880 01:52:18,280 --> 01:52:24,040 But yeah, I thought the scenes, the scenery and the concepts 1881 01:52:24,040 --> 01:52:26,680 that they were building was good and it got better as it went 1882 01:52:26,680 --> 01:52:29,520 along. So I've got high hopes for it 1883 01:52:29,520 --> 01:52:32,640 and I will watch it all regardless of what people say. 1884 01:52:33,320 --> 01:52:35,560 I'm I'm I'm the of the opinion that if the. 1885 01:52:35,640 --> 01:52:38,160 Actor regardless of regardless of race. 1886 01:52:38,920 --> 01:52:41,680 Or color or ethnicity, I don't really care as long as they can 1887 01:52:41,680 --> 01:52:44,120 do the job and they do it well. That's all that matters. 1888 01:52:44,720 --> 01:52:48,240 If you're if obviously they, they cast these people based on 1889 01:52:48,240 --> 01:52:52,520 their skill of acting and they have to obviously physically 1890 01:52:52,520 --> 01:52:57,120 match the the role as well. I think the the main lead 1891 01:52:57,120 --> 01:52:59,840 character, the elf Ranger guy, I think he did a great job. 1892 01:53:01,200 --> 01:53:04,680 And also I think we have to sort of like take your sort of 1893 01:53:05,160 --> 01:53:08,320 passion out of it for a moment and look at it objectively and 1894 01:53:08,320 --> 01:53:10,680 say, look, this is a marketing thing. 1895 01:53:10,680 --> 01:53:14,880 And as all TV programmes are now, and we don't live in the 1896 01:53:14,880 --> 01:53:19,920 1950s anymore, you know, we live in an an age where people of all 1897 01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:23,440 different nationalities, ethnicities, etcetera, have got 1898 01:53:23,440 --> 01:53:27,240 disposable income. And if you're Disney or Amazon 1899 01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:31,560 or any large multinational corporation, you know that you 1900 01:53:31,560 --> 01:53:34,440 are putting out a huge part of your audience. 1901 01:53:34,440 --> 01:53:38,320 If you're excluding women, people of different ethnicities, 1902 01:53:38,840 --> 01:53:42,680 people of different, let's say sexual preferences, if you like 1903 01:53:43,080 --> 01:53:45,560 as well. If you start excluding those 1904 01:53:45,560 --> 01:53:49,080 people, then that's money you're leaving on the table, isn't it? 1905 01:53:49,120 --> 01:53:54,880 You know, if you can bring in, you know, 100,000 black Lord of 1906 01:53:54,880 --> 01:53:59,440 the Rings fans and, and 200,000 female Lords of the Rings fans, 1907 01:53:59,440 --> 01:54:02,160 that's money you, you get in your coffers, you can sell 1908 01:54:02,160 --> 01:54:05,400 merchandise to them, you know, and, and you've got fans for 1909 01:54:05,400 --> 01:54:08,400 life who you can market to. And that's the reality of 1910 01:54:08,400 --> 01:54:11,840 business when it's naive to to look beyond that. 1911 01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:15,920 Yeah, it's an interesting point because even when I was in 1912 01:54:16,160 --> 01:54:22,320 working for Games Workshop in the 90s, I did meet, I went to a 1913 01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:25,880 party once and there was a nice young black guy there. 1914 01:54:25,880 --> 01:54:29,200 He was a staff member and he really liked the Salamanders, 1915 01:54:29,200 --> 01:54:32,200 the Marines, Salamander Marines, because of course, they were 1916 01:54:32,200 --> 01:54:35,320 all, they were all black, weren't they? 1917 01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:40,640 Yeah, ethnical background. So all those he, he could relate 1918 01:54:40,640 --> 01:54:45,080 to those Marines because of, of, of what they were. 1919 01:54:45,120 --> 01:54:46,920 And I thought that was, I thought that was interesting. 1920 01:54:46,920 --> 01:54:50,240 But I, I've always found it, I've always found it quite 1921 01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:55,560 intriguing as to why we don't have a very diverse ethnical 1922 01:54:56,240 --> 01:54:59,800 group of people in the hobby. Why is it a very white centric 1923 01:54:59,800 --> 01:55:02,320 hobby? And I don't know whether that's 1924 01:55:02,320 --> 01:55:08,240 because of like imperial colonization, maybe because, you 1925 01:55:08,240 --> 01:55:15,800 know, through Europe and people of why white ethnic backgrounds, 1926 01:55:16,240 --> 01:55:21,040 we've been involved with wars or whatever internally or what, you 1927 01:55:21,040 --> 01:55:24,920 know, I, I can't really put my finger on it, that maybe it's 1928 01:55:24,920 --> 01:55:31,280 because we have such a long history of war in our, in our 1929 01:55:31,280 --> 01:55:35,480 history, Maybe we can relate to it more as opposed to other 1930 01:55:35,480 --> 01:55:37,120 people from different ethnic backgrounds. 1931 01:55:37,320 --> 01:55:39,720 You know, if I, if I'm putting my marketing head on, you know, 1932 01:55:39,720 --> 01:55:44,520 my day-to-day job is that when Games Workshop and similar 1933 01:55:45,560 --> 01:55:49,880 products were first created, it was created by a bunch of white 1934 01:55:49,880 --> 01:55:52,720 guys. So they just knew. 1935 01:55:52,720 --> 01:55:56,360 They just marketed and rehashed what they already knew. 1936 01:55:56,360 --> 01:55:58,640 So they sort of take Tolkien as the Canon. 1937 01:55:59,520 --> 01:56:02,720 It's sort of a European folk law. 1938 01:56:03,000 --> 01:56:07,560 And so the majority of characters are sort of expected 1939 01:56:07,560 --> 01:56:11,400 as to be European of, of, of the way they look. 1940 01:56:11,920 --> 01:56:15,640 And then you sort of take the medieval wars that were so 1941 01:56:15,640 --> 01:56:20,760 popular in war gaming, Knights and castles and War of the Roses 1942 01:56:20,760 --> 01:56:23,120 and 100 Years War and all that kind of stuff. 1943 01:56:23,120 --> 01:56:28,120 And it's all European wars. So they create those figures and 1944 01:56:28,640 --> 01:56:33,280 people of other ethnicities who, particularly in the UK where 1945 01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:37,760 this sort of stuff is, you know, Games Workshop sort of based and 1946 01:56:37,760 --> 01:56:44,200 started ethnic minorities were not really huge portion of the 1947 01:56:44,200 --> 01:56:48,040 population. So I think we were excluded in 1948 01:56:48,040 --> 01:56:52,520 that sense and and sort of marginalized to being, you know, 1949 01:56:52,560 --> 01:56:56,360 African tribes or pygmies or whatever you've seen them, the 1950 01:56:56,360 --> 01:56:59,880 old minis of you know, African tribes, pygmies, amazons, 1951 01:56:59,880 --> 01:57:01,440 etcetera. Probably a little bit 1952 01:57:01,440 --> 01:57:07,080 fetishized, but as society becomes more inclusive, more 1953 01:57:07,080 --> 01:57:09,760 diverse people of different ethnicities start to come to 1954 01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:14,120 prominence and, and things like that, we say, hey, we, we like, 1955 01:57:14,160 --> 01:57:16,320 we really like what Lord of the Rings. 1956 01:57:16,320 --> 01:57:18,640 We'll buy into this. We'll have a bit of Star Wars, 1957 01:57:18,640 --> 01:57:21,760 you know, and people say, God, we're not marketing to them, but 1958 01:57:21,760 --> 01:57:24,520 they need some characters, you know, they need some relatable 1959 01:57:24,520 --> 01:57:27,240 stories. And then that's where we are 1960 01:57:27,240 --> 01:57:30,520 today, you know, and we're moving forward. 1961 01:57:32,920 --> 01:57:35,840 Just my take on it. Yeah, but I've always felt that, 1962 01:57:35,840 --> 01:57:39,000 you know, war gaming has been a very white centric kind of 1963 01:57:39,000 --> 01:57:40,760 hobby. It doesn't. 1964 01:57:41,360 --> 01:57:44,240 But then maybe that's changing. Maybe that's just my outlook on 1965 01:57:44,240 --> 01:57:47,240 it from where I started into the hobby to now. 1966 01:57:47,920 --> 01:57:50,600 But I hope. That's the case, I hope, if 1967 01:57:50,600 --> 01:57:54,520 we're looking to sort of say computer game, right, Call of 1968 01:57:54,640 --> 01:57:56,440 Duty or something like that. That's true. 1969 01:57:56,600 --> 01:58:00,920 Call of Duty or what's that game Grand Theft Auto, etcetera. 1970 01:58:01,280 --> 01:58:04,240 All those types of games have got war and battle and fighting 1971 01:58:04,240 --> 01:58:09,880 in, but they're sort of more diverse in characters and they 1972 01:58:09,880 --> 01:58:13,600 have, they're very popular with people of all ethnicities and 1973 01:58:13,600 --> 01:58:18,520 sexism, genders and sexual preferences, you know, people 1974 01:58:18,640 --> 01:58:20,760 playing computer games because it's modern. 1975 01:58:21,240 --> 01:58:25,560 And whoever wrote it thought I want to sell this to everybody 1976 01:58:25,760 --> 01:58:28,720 because that's the society that they grew up in. 1977 01:58:29,240 --> 01:58:33,000 So I think war game is playing catch up in this phase. 1978 01:58:33,360 --> 01:58:36,680 I definitely think that in 20 or 30 years this will not even be 1979 01:58:36,680 --> 01:58:38,320 anything that anyone talks about. 1980 01:58:38,560 --> 01:58:41,200 No, I think so too man. I think it is going to phase out 1981 01:58:41,760 --> 01:58:43,760 unfortunately, but I think that's true. 1982 01:58:43,760 --> 01:58:45,640 I think board gaming will still be there. 1983 01:58:45,760 --> 01:58:48,680 I think board games will be there unless it goes completely 1984 01:58:48,680 --> 01:58:50,240 all digital. But I think people will still 1985 01:58:50,240 --> 01:58:53,040 want to have that tangible physical copy of A and have that 1986 01:58:53,040 --> 01:58:57,160 sort of family, you know, kind of experience where they have 1987 01:58:57,160 --> 01:58:59,160 everyone sitting around a table playing a board game. 1988 01:58:59,160 --> 01:59:02,800 I think they they will stay, but definitely the tabletop wall 1989 01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:08,000 gaming will eventually, you know, go the way of the dodo I 1990 01:59:08,000 --> 01:59:10,280 think. Well, yeah, but I mean, that 1991 01:59:10,320 --> 01:59:12,880 wasn't what I was trying to say. I'm just trying to say that the 1992 01:59:12,880 --> 01:59:17,800 sort of sort of divisions or you know, the the the fact that if 1993 01:59:17,800 --> 01:59:20,280 there aren't many women playing war gaming, there aren't many 1994 01:59:20,440 --> 01:59:22,800 ethnic minorities. I think, I think that will 1995 01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:28,840 change just because companies who make Warhammer etcetera and 1996 01:59:28,840 --> 01:59:32,480 and and similar products just are aware that there's a more 1997 01:59:32,480 --> 01:59:35,440 diverse audience out there and they can be catered to. 1998 01:59:36,720 --> 01:59:38,440 Yeah, well, you can see that with Hiraquest where they're 1999 01:59:38,440 --> 01:59:41,000 making female characters or all the male characters, which I 2000 01:59:41,000 --> 01:59:43,840 think is a good idea. I mean, you know, I if I. 2001 01:59:43,840 --> 01:59:45,240 Yeah, let's get the girls into it. 2002 01:59:45,240 --> 01:59:47,880 I want to see more girls. Yeah, me too. 2003 01:59:47,880 --> 01:59:49,680 Me too. I'm going to introduce my sister 2004 01:59:49,680 --> 01:59:52,480 to Hiraquest when she comes to Japan later this year. 2005 01:59:53,680 --> 01:59:57,200 My my sister's a gamer. She loves like, computer gaming, 2006 01:59:57,240 --> 01:59:59,640 P like console gaming and that kind of thing. 2007 01:59:59,640 --> 02:00:04,280 She always has. And and her boyfriend also loves 2008 02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:06,600 console gaming too. That's what they spend most of 2009 02:00:06,600 --> 02:00:09,320 their free time doing. And I said, look, you know, 2010 02:00:09,320 --> 02:00:12,520 let's play Hero Quest because it's the, it's the game I 2011 02:00:12,520 --> 02:00:15,040 absolutely love. I know they would really enjoy 2012 02:00:15,040 --> 02:00:18,480 it as well. So yeah, I'm going to, I'm going 2013 02:00:18,480 --> 02:00:20,720 to see what my, because she played Talisman when I had 2014 02:00:20,720 --> 02:00:25,160 Talisman there back home. And we played I think Dungeon 2015 02:00:25,160 --> 02:00:29,600 Quest once together. So she has entertained me a 2016 02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:34,320 couple of times playing, playing these sort of old fantasy games 2017 02:00:34,360 --> 02:00:36,920 and that's. It we can keep integrating these 2018 02:00:36,920 --> 02:00:39,720 things and you know, there are some things that just never die. 2019 02:00:39,720 --> 02:00:43,680 And I don't think fantasy or sci-fi are, are ever going away 2020 02:00:43,680 --> 02:00:47,440 because it's at the end of the day, fantasy that no matter how 2021 02:00:47,440 --> 02:00:50,880 Fast forward we move every year that we advance, we can always 2022 02:00:50,880 --> 02:00:53,280 look back. So there's always a historical 2023 02:00:53,560 --> 02:00:58,440 aspect that we can refer to and pull in and you know, provided 2024 02:00:58,440 --> 02:01:02,240 we keep our heads and don't destroy the planet, you know, 2025 02:01:02,280 --> 02:01:03,720 there's always going to be a future. 2026 02:01:03,720 --> 02:01:06,520 So we can always have a sci-fi imagination, can't we? 2027 02:01:07,320 --> 02:01:13,000 Yep, absolutely man, absolutely. So anyhow mate, as we wrap up 2028 02:01:13,120 --> 02:01:15,920 our conversation today, do you have any aspirations or hobby 2029 02:01:15,920 --> 02:01:17,640 goals for the future for yourself? 2030 02:01:19,240 --> 02:01:22,880 Well, yeah, you know, Josh, I think just to keep in it, keep 2031 02:01:22,880 --> 02:01:29,960 at it, keep my hand in, I'd like see, it's kind of important, but 2032 02:01:29,960 --> 02:01:33,120 not important. So I'd like to grow my online 2033 02:01:33,120 --> 02:01:35,880 community a bit, you know, get more Instagram followers and 2034 02:01:36,320 --> 02:01:40,640 YouTube followers so that I can do more, you know, so I can 2035 02:01:40,640 --> 02:01:44,640 spend some time making videos about painting and diorama 2036 02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:49,640 making and stuff like that and helping younger people and older 2037 02:01:49,640 --> 02:01:52,560 people, you know, enjoy the hobby more and maybe I can pass 2038 02:01:52,560 --> 02:01:56,240 something along to them or, you know, just just being part of 2039 02:01:56,240 --> 02:01:59,440 it. So I'd like to do that, build up 2040 02:01:59,440 --> 02:02:05,040 my blog, you know, write more articles about the figures and 2041 02:02:05,480 --> 02:02:12,480 their sort of their Canon, where they come from and how to get 2042 02:02:12,480 --> 02:02:16,480 hold of them and good examples of different varieties and 2043 02:02:16,480 --> 02:02:19,440 different modelling companies. Just generally make something 2044 02:02:19,440 --> 02:02:23,600 that's useful so that that's my legacy because we don't live 2045 02:02:23,600 --> 02:02:26,920 forever. And you know, I would like to 2046 02:02:26,920 --> 02:02:30,400 think that of all the thousands of articles I've written on the 2047 02:02:30,400 --> 02:02:33,400 Internet for different topics, you know, in my job and stuff, 2048 02:02:34,120 --> 02:02:37,160 that some of it is actually useful and not just marketing 2049 02:02:37,240 --> 02:02:39,600 spiel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2050 02:02:40,160 --> 02:02:41,200 Yeah. So, yeah. 2051 02:02:41,200 --> 02:02:45,600 And I'd like to, I would like to say that I'll finish my pile one 2052 02:02:45,600 --> 02:02:50,800 day, sort of get close to it and leave something, you know, for 2053 02:02:50,800 --> 02:02:54,040 my daughter to agonize over and sell. 2054 02:02:54,240 --> 02:02:56,440 And, you know, maybe she'll make some cash. 2055 02:02:57,200 --> 02:02:59,280 But yeah, of my greatness, I'll be. 2056 02:03:00,400 --> 02:03:02,640 Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? Like I'm thinking the same about 2057 02:03:02,640 --> 02:03:05,480 my stuff, you know, when I, when I eventually go, that will be 2058 02:03:05,480 --> 02:03:07,360 like an investment for my son, you know? 2059 02:03:07,920 --> 02:03:10,400 Yeah, Yeah. That's what I'm thinking. 2060 02:03:10,400 --> 02:03:11,800 I'm trying to catalogue it as well. 2061 02:03:11,800 --> 02:03:15,560 You know, like trying to make a spreadsheet and idea of what 2062 02:03:15,560 --> 02:03:19,160 stuff I've got so this is what it costs now. 2063 02:03:19,840 --> 02:03:24,920 So if I live a long life, let's say another 20 plus years, then 2064 02:03:25,200 --> 02:03:27,440 you know she'll have an idea of what it costs. 2065 02:03:28,480 --> 02:03:30,480 Yeah, it's a it's a scary proposition, isn't it? 2066 02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:33,080 Because like, you know, now, like I, I presume you're, you're 2067 02:03:33,080 --> 02:03:34,880 almost 50 or in your 50s now. I. 2068 02:03:35,000 --> 02:03:36,080 Am beyond fifty? Yeah. 2069 02:03:36,200 --> 02:03:38,320 Right. I'm 52, but you know, like it's, 2070 02:03:39,840 --> 02:03:41,360 and like I say, we don't last forever. 2071 02:03:41,360 --> 02:03:43,680 And you don't know when when that time's going to be. 2072 02:03:43,680 --> 02:03:44,680 It could be tomorrow or whatever. 2073 02:03:44,680 --> 02:03:46,920 I hope not for us. But you know what, I think, 2074 02:03:47,360 --> 02:03:50,160 shit, you know, I'm leaving all this stuff for them and they're 2075 02:03:50,160 --> 02:03:53,920 going to sort it all out. So yeah, I think what you're 2076 02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:55,600 doing is a great idea. Have like some kind of 2077 02:03:55,600 --> 02:03:58,800 spreadsheet of what you've got exactly and how much it's worth. 2078 02:03:59,440 --> 02:04:03,240 And that way they've got something to go from when that 2079 02:04:03,240 --> 02:04:06,000 time comes to sort of start selling off all your stuff and 2080 02:04:06,400 --> 02:04:08,400 cashing in. I wake up in a cold sweat 2081 02:04:08,400 --> 02:04:09,560 sometimes. Imagine. 2082 02:04:09,920 --> 02:04:12,600 Imagine in the hearse just shovelling it all into the bins. 2083 02:04:13,560 --> 02:04:17,880 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So putting a plan in action, 2084 02:04:17,880 --> 02:04:20,480 that's for sure. That time comes. 2085 02:04:20,600 --> 02:04:23,480 But anyhow, Philip, thank you, mate, for this massively long 2086 02:04:23,480 --> 02:04:24,840 conversation, for your time today. 2087 02:04:24,840 --> 02:04:26,160 It's been really good to talk to you. 2088 02:04:27,040 --> 02:04:29,440 Well, not at all, Josh, you know, I'm really grateful for 2089 02:04:29,440 --> 02:04:33,000 you having me on. And actually, before you let me 2090 02:04:33,000 --> 02:04:37,400 go, I just wanted to say thank you to you for everything you've 2091 02:04:37,400 --> 02:04:39,320 done with Crown of Command podcast. 2092 02:04:39,320 --> 02:04:42,520 I mean, when I found that I was just like, Oh my God, I'm home. 2093 02:04:43,040 --> 02:04:47,640 And the hero Hammer fanzine that you wrote, you know, that you 2094 02:04:47,640 --> 02:04:51,200 were putting together, those were just beautiful trips down 2095 02:04:51,200 --> 02:04:54,560 memory lane. Like almost like the old white 2096 02:04:54,560 --> 02:04:59,280 dwarf reborn and the discord channel that you've got set up. 2097 02:04:59,280 --> 02:05:01,920 You know, I really appreciate that I've been able to talk to 2098 02:05:01,920 --> 02:05:06,440 so many like minded people, modellers, painters, just people 2099 02:05:06,440 --> 02:05:09,800 who love the old hammer vibe and just thanks so much for doing 2100 02:05:09,800 --> 02:05:12,240 that, man. It's really is appreciated and I 2101 02:05:12,240 --> 02:05:15,880 don't know if you ever know how much we we appreciate what you 2102 02:05:15,880 --> 02:05:17,760 do. Oh, thank you very much, Phil. 2103 02:05:17,760 --> 02:05:19,720 That's very nice, man. I'm really glad you reached out 2104 02:05:19,720 --> 02:05:22,400 to me on Instagram. That's how we met. 2105 02:05:22,640 --> 02:05:27,800 And who's this bloke? Send me a video like I see 2106 02:05:27,800 --> 02:05:29,440 what's this gonna be? I don't know who this guy is. 2107 02:05:29,440 --> 02:05:33,760 And I, I, I first ignored your videos, I think for the first 2108 02:05:33,760 --> 02:05:34,960 week or something. And then I thought. 2109 02:05:35,600 --> 02:05:37,760 Who? This bloke is, I'm just going to 2110 02:05:37,760 --> 02:05:39,640 play this video because I thought maybe you're selling me 2111 02:05:39,640 --> 02:05:42,360 something or whatever. I had no, I was very new to 2112 02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:45,480 Instagram at that stage. And I played the video and I 2113 02:05:45,480 --> 02:05:47,840 thought, wow, that's a fascinating conversation. 2114 02:05:47,880 --> 02:05:50,760 It was a story I think you're telling us about your, your, 2115 02:05:50,920 --> 02:05:54,520 your life and how you got into, I think war gaming initially or 2116 02:05:54,520 --> 02:05:57,600 whatever. And I thought, oh, he's, he's 2117 02:05:57,600 --> 02:05:59,440 like a really nice guy, interesting bloke. 2118 02:05:59,760 --> 02:06:03,360 But I think he did that through the, the through COVID. 2119 02:06:03,400 --> 02:06:05,680 So I kind of missed that time because it was really nice 2120 02:06:05,680 --> 02:06:08,720 getting your videos as you're sending out to all the people on 2121 02:06:08,720 --> 02:06:12,800 your friend list or whatever. And yeah, you always presented 2122 02:06:12,800 --> 02:06:16,720 some really interesting aspect to the hobby or whatever that 2123 02:06:16,720 --> 02:06:19,600 you'd share with everybody and get people's feedback on. 2124 02:06:19,640 --> 02:06:22,680 So yeah, thank you mate for being an inspiration out there 2125 02:06:22,680 --> 02:06:25,880 for many of us out there in in the hobby, mate. 2126 02:06:26,520 --> 02:06:28,640 Well, that's nice of you to say. Thanks very much. 2127 02:06:29,040 --> 02:06:31,360 Send me another video, I'm looking forward to those. 2128 02:06:32,440 --> 02:06:37,360 Anytime, brother, anytime. OK Phil, well you have a good 2129 02:06:37,360 --> 02:06:41,600 night's rest mate after your trip from Wales and I'm going to 2130 02:06:41,600 --> 02:06:43,720 start my day and get my paints and brushes out. 2131 02:06:44,320 --> 02:06:45,720 Yeah, well, you have a good one man. 2132 02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:50,000 And I've got some stuff to be painted up from tomorrow 2133 02:06:50,000 --> 02:06:52,520 evening. Got to get finished the boil 2134 02:06:52,840 --> 02:06:57,440 entries off. Oh yeah, because that's coming 2135 02:06:57,440 --> 02:07:01,360 up really soon now, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's the on on the 2136 02:07:01,360 --> 02:07:03,160 4th. I'll I'll be going up with my 2137 02:07:03,160 --> 02:07:04,920 friend John. He's never been before. 2138 02:07:04,920 --> 02:07:08,240 So I'm going to go and take him and introduce him to the world 2139 02:07:08,240 --> 02:07:11,280 of Old Hammer. Awesome, OK mate, we you have a 2140 02:07:11,280 --> 02:07:14,280 great time. I I wish you luck in the in the 2141 02:07:14,280 --> 02:07:16,520 painting competition, because I know you you picked up first 2142 02:07:16,520 --> 02:07:21,040 place for your massive great spine dragon. 2143 02:07:21,040 --> 02:07:23,200 Last. Last, Yeah. 2144 02:07:23,360 --> 02:07:26,880 So I think I got lucky that time and we we'll see. 2145 02:07:26,880 --> 02:07:31,080 I don't expect to win again, but just nice to take part, isn't 2146 02:07:31,080 --> 02:07:32,880 it? Absolutely, yeah. 2147 02:07:32,880 --> 02:07:34,560 It's just nice to be there if you got the if you get the 2148 02:07:34,560 --> 02:07:36,280 chance, you know? Absolutely. 2149 02:07:36,320 --> 02:07:40,000 So yeah mate, have a great. Thank you so much again for 2150 02:07:40,000 --> 02:07:42,480 having me on and I'll I'll catch you soon man. 2151 02:07:42,920 --> 02:07:43,800 OK. Thanks again, Phil. 2152 02:07:43,800 --> 02:07:47,680 Take care mate. The fire burns warmly, but casts 2153 02:07:47,680 --> 02:07:51,400 little light into Mentor study. The flickering shadows only hint 2154 02:07:51,400 --> 02:07:54,760 at the vast number of books and scrolls that fill the many 2155 02:07:54,760 --> 02:07:57,960 shelves. Slowly, Mentor walks over to the 2156 02:07:57,960 --> 02:08:00,640 fire. Well, my friends, your training 2157 02:08:00,640 --> 02:08:03,400 is complete. You are not yet heroes. 2158 02:08:04,080 --> 02:08:06,480 You may yet have to prove yourselves. 2159 02:08:06,480 --> 02:08:09,000 But first let me tell you of Morca. 2160 02:08:10,240 --> 02:08:12,960 Many centuries ago, Morca was my apprentice. 2161 02:08:12,960 --> 02:08:16,800 He worked hard and learned quickly, but impatience devoured 2162 02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:19,160 him and he wanted to learn more powerful magic. 2163 02:08:19,920 --> 02:08:23,120 I told him of the dangers and that he should be patient, for 2164 02:08:23,120 --> 02:08:24,920 in time he would become a great wizard. 2165 02:08:25,560 --> 02:08:28,960 That Morcha could not wait. Each night he broke into my 2166 02:08:28,960 --> 02:08:32,440 study and read my spellbooks. The secrets that were held 2167 02:08:32,440 --> 02:08:36,360 within them were great indeed. Once he had learnt these 2168 02:08:36,360 --> 02:08:39,920 secrets, Morcha fled. When I caught up with him, I 2169 02:08:39,920 --> 02:08:43,040 found him greatly changed. He had pledged his allegiance to 2170 02:08:43,040 --> 02:08:45,360 the great powers of Chaos. Fool. 2171 02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:49,800 He saw magic only as a shortcut to power and paid no heed to the 2172 02:08:49,800 --> 02:08:51,680 terrible price he would have to pay. 2173 02:08:52,240 --> 02:08:54,560 I tried to reason with him, but to no avail. 2174 02:08:54,840 --> 02:08:58,440 He laughed my face and then unleashed a terrible spell which 2175 02:08:58,440 --> 02:09:00,240 I was hard pressed to to counter. 2176 02:09:01,280 --> 02:09:05,480 For many days we battled that Morka had allies stronger even 2177 02:09:05,480 --> 02:09:07,520 than I, and I could not defeat him. 2178 02:09:07,920 --> 02:09:12,440 In the end, as we both weakened, we fled and sought refuge in the 2179 02:09:12,440 --> 02:09:16,320 Northern Cow's Wastes. There he licked his wounds and 2180 02:09:16,320 --> 02:09:19,920 honed his skills, conjuring ancient powers to which to 2181 02:09:19,920 --> 02:09:23,520 overthrow the Empire. But he knows not what he has 2182 02:09:23,520 --> 02:09:26,440 done. They will serve him while it 2183 02:09:26,440 --> 02:09:30,400 suits their own dark purposes, but in time they will destroy 2184 02:09:30,400 --> 02:09:33,600 him. I must watch Morka and measure 2185 02:09:33,600 --> 02:09:37,120 the strength of his magic. This I may do with the help of 2186 02:09:37,120 --> 02:09:40,720 Law Tone. The powers Morka has called upon 2187 02:09:40,720 --> 02:09:44,080 will destroy us all if I relax from this vigil. 2188 02:09:44,880 --> 02:09:47,720 Morcha's legions have threatened us once before. 2189 02:09:48,080 --> 02:09:50,880 Then it was Roga who aided me and defeated them. 2190 02:09:51,520 --> 02:09:55,040 Now they're on the March again. Already they have assailed the 2191 02:09:55,040 --> 02:09:58,040 Borderlands. The Empire must again look for 2192 02:09:58,040 --> 02:10:01,280 heroes. And to this end, have I trained 2193 02:10:01,280 --> 02:10:03,920 you? Each of you must complete three 2194 02:10:03,920 --> 02:10:06,520 tasks. If you do this, you will be 2195 02:10:06,560 --> 02:10:09,600 acclaimed as champions of the realm and dubbed Imperial 2196 02:10:09,600 --> 02:10:12,200 Nights. Then you will truly be on the 2197 02:10:12,200 --> 02:10:15,640 road to becoming a hero. I shall speak with you. 2198 02:10:15,640 --> 02:10:18,520 Again, on your return if you return.