1 00:00:09,040 --> 00:00:10,800 Hello and welcome to the Chronic Main Podcast. 2 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,240 This is Josh, your host, and today we have another flashback 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,040 from another live stream I did on Chronic Command Games. 4 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:19,120 You can go and watch it there if you want to watch the actual 5 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:21,560 video of it. It's great to have the 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,640 interactivity with the people that jump on the live streams. 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,880 And just a just a note about the audio quality. 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,280 It's not absolutely 100%. So I've tried to clean it up as 9 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,120 best as I can. And there will be a bit of 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,960 coarse language in this one as we have two Australians. 11 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,240 I was very clean. I I didn't say one bad curse 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,840 word. So that's amazing for me, but 13 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:53,680 I'm I, I was very happy to have and host Kent Fury all the way 14 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,600 from Newcastle, Australia, talking about his D bad system 15 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:02,200 and my good friend and patron Cody from Tennessee, the US. 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,680 And luckily we had all the times, you know, lined up 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,280 together and everyone could meet on that time, which is 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,680 wonderful. I really appreciate everybody 19 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,120 who can just make the time to come and talk to me to deliver 20 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,560 their story, to deliver their passion about the hobby and and 21 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,400 whatever it might be and talk about it. 22 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:28,640 So that, you know, we hope to inspire others to start or maybe 23 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,400 consider coming back to something like second edition 24 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:37,640 40K, allowing them the information for resources how 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,000 they can do that and hopefully just, yeah, just giving them 26 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,000 some just words of encouragement. 27 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:49,320 So I hope you guys enjoy this chat today with Kent and Cody 28 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:55,480 and their perspectives on 2nd edition and there as like me and 29 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:00,240 Cody would come back into second edition, you know, not so long 30 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,000 ago. I think we both share that same 31 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,080 experience coming back into second edition. 32 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,840 But Kent is is a veteran of this system. 33 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,320 So he that's why the D bad system is there that he created. 34 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,280 So give it a chance. Give it a listen. 35 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,040 Listen to the the great man himself, Kent Fury, talk all 36 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,480 about it. And I just hope you enjoy our 37 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,640 podcast today, our flashback from one of the live streams we 38 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:27,240 did before. So guys, sit back, relax, get 39 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,400 your paints out your brushes, get your miniatures out, 40 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,400 especially your second edition of stuff if you got it there, 41 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:36,160 and enjoy our interview today. Howdy, howdy how's? 42 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,360 It going. Yeah, yeah, mate. 43 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:41,120 All good. Thanks Ken for joining us mate. 44 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:42,160 I know it's a bit difficult for you. 45 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,400 Me and Cody usually join up every now and again. 46 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,200 We're we're free and free and footloose. 47 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:48,960 But you are, you know, you're sort of a bit constrained on 48 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,720 time mate. So thank you again for taking 49 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,720 the time out to come and join us and talk all about the D bad 50 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,880 rule system. Hey. 51 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,560 My favorite? You seem really enthusiastic 52 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,280 about it, but yeah, it. Is what it is. 53 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,360 But we're, yeah, primarily talking about Second edition 40K 54 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,400 for the purposes of people who are just so the peering through 55 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,240 those, you know, through the curtains of the windows saying, 56 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,480 oh, that looks pretty good. That looks quite exciting. 57 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,080 So, I mean, back in the past, they never got to play, or maybe 58 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,680 they did play it back in the day, like all of us, and then 59 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,000 have returned after many years later out of Second edition and 60 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,000 coming back into it for the first time or what our 61 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,360 impressions are. But I think most people are 62 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,520 familiar with Cody and his GM Cody channel and that kind of 63 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,480 thing. But maybe Kent, you've been on 64 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:38,880 the podcast a couple of times, mate. 65 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,760 But just briefly, what's your history in 40K second edition 66 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:46,240 buddy? I started in Rogue Trader, did 67 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,440 that for a bit, but then when Second Egg came in, I was 68 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,960 working at Games Workshop and as you know, working at Games 69 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,520 Workshop running, what was it, 10 to 20 demo games a day 70 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,240 minimum. You get a really good 71 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,360 understanding of Second Edition from that. 72 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,880 We played a lot in store, we played a lot with our mates and 73 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,760 I never got to play competitively, only against 74 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,040 other Games Workshop guys and also the guys that came into the 75 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:14,920 stores late at night because you weren't allowed to play proper 76 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:16,360 games in the stores in those days. 77 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:22,600 So I played a lot, a lot of second at 40K, broke the rules 78 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:27,040 completely and ugly you could. You can't even imagine how dirty 79 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,680 and filthy we played it back in those days. 80 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,240 And from that time, you know, once you push the system to the 81 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,960 limit, you start going, OK, so this book's broken. 82 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:39,680 This is broken, this is broken. Whatever. 83 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,800 I actually want to go back to what I like doing, which is 84 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,560 strategic war gaming. And that's where D Bag came 85 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,680 about. All right, OK, mate. 86 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,360 Now tell us about their army, because we I think I know what 87 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,880 your favorite favorite army is. What what's your favorite army, 88 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:54,560 mate? You like to? 89 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:02,080 Play in second hand like so I I haven't told you this but I'm 90 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,840 off space walls. Me and space walls are done what 91 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,400 you can fake the you can fake the latest you can fake the 92 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,240 latest heresy series for this. Because I think Ross was wrong. 93 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,680 He catted it at the end. He should have taken out Horace 94 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,240 when he had the chance, but he didn't. 95 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,600 He should have taken out Magnus when he should have, but he 96 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,520 didn't. My Lord. 97 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:27,040 And then I'm just off them like because if if Ross stayed on 98 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:28,640 terror, it would have been a different story. 99 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,040 But he did chose not to. And then he didn't do what he 100 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,920 set out to do off the walls completely off. 101 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:40,520 Having said that, in 2nd Ed. So for the last three 102 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,280 tournaments, so the first one I ran was my Space Wolves, which I 103 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:49,040 love. Then I ran my Imperial Guard, 104 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,040 and then I ran Jean, still a cult. 105 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,640 And out of the three, I actually prefer running Jean, still a 106 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,560 cult more than anything else. Didn't have many rules, but you 107 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,720 just that little combination and just a bit of freewheeling and 108 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,080 under the D badge system you could come up with some really, 109 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,080 really cool combos at a low level. 110 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,280 And Jean Stiller's really punch hard. 111 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,480 So I've always liked that sort of narrative. 112 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,880 And you know, you get to have the cool limousines and all that 113 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,480 sort of thing with Jean Stiller Cult. 114 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,600 Yep, absolutely. I got to taste what that was 115 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,120 like when I painted up Khanifax for a cult army. 116 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,160 I actually got to put in the table for very first time. 117 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,240 But I've always been, I've always liked the Jean Stiller 118 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,360 cult theme. The majors, The patriarch, The 119 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,040 Jean Stillers. Yeah, it was so cool. 120 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:32,200 Yeah, sounds. Cool. 121 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,160 Than the other the the the mainstream gene stills. 122 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,160 I think the the cult just seemed just much cooler than the the 123 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:39,760 mainstream ones, but that's cool. 124 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,480 Wait. OK Cody mate your your history 125 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,280 and 2nd edition mate briefly. Yeah, well, we talked about it 126 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:48,760 the last couple live streams and stuff. 127 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,560 That was the first game that got me into gaming as a whole. 128 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:56,160 So I got into it around 9596 when I was a kid. 129 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,360 So back then when we played it, all we really had was the 130 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,040 contents in this box sitting beside me. 131 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,760 And we might have had a few extra stuff, you know, I mean, 132 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:10,960 and back then I played the orc side of this box set and I had, 133 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,520 I think when Gorka Morca came out, I combined that stuff with 134 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,400 what was in there. And that was my army back then. 135 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,440 Back then, I think I was the only one out of you know, it was 136 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,080 really just, you know, the neighborhood kids, you know, the 137 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,440 friend down the road maybe, and like my cousin, because my 138 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,920 cousin actually had the rules in the box set and that's what we 139 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,520 played out of. But the only one that understood 140 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,000 the rules was me. And I'm not even really sure I 141 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,400 understood all the rules, but I did understand how to play the 142 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,040 game. So I was teaching everybody 143 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,000 else, but ever we're all, you know, 910 eleven years old and 144 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,040 it they they didn't. You win every game, Cody. 145 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,040 What's that? Did you win every game? 146 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,160 I, I have no idea. I, I don't know if I, I have no 147 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,840 idea, but there are some funny stories about that because that 148 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,080 would pull out rules that the other people didn't know. 149 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,600 Like specifically playing against my cousin. 150 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,080 We were playing, we were playing this scenario, which I don't 151 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:08,560 remember. I think I got it out of a white 152 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,240 dwarf or something and you were trying to hold and take a 153 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,200 bridge, or maybe we just made it up. 154 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,640 And so we set up like a river and we had this little bridge we 155 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,080 made out of cardboard or whatever. 156 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,680 And so I, I get over the, he gets his space rings over the 157 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,360 bridge and I'm like, well, I'm going to start chucking grenades 158 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:26,160 at your marines. He's like, you could throw 159 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:26,880 grenades. I'm. 160 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,600 Like I'm. Like, yeah, dude, it's like 161 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,960 right here on this, you know, this page or whatever, he's just 162 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,000 like, no way. And he just didn't believe me. 163 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:35,200 And I had to, like, show him the rule. 164 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,039 I was like, yeah, right here, you can throw grenades and all 165 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:39,200 this stuff. So yeah, it kind of went like 166 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,240 that. But we're really, I mean, really 167 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,440 we were just kind of like pushing models around on the 168 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:44,920 floor. You know, when I was a kid, we 169 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,640 were just having a good time. And it wasn't until I got a 170 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,520 little bit older that we actually, and it wasn't too much 171 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:52,720 longer. Like when I got in middle 172 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,080 school, we had a proper war games table and terrain and 173 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:56,840 stuff. But third edition had come out 174 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,720 by that time and I had left and we just kind of left second 175 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,520 edition in the dust because I mean, we didn't know the 176 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:04,760 difference. We were just moving on to 177 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:10,280 whatever the newest thing was. So I I played 40K off and on 178 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:16,360 until I was probably about 17 or 18 and just completely got out 179 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:17,760 of it. And the reason I got out of it 180 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,200 is mainly because of the 40K fans. 181 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,960 Hate to say it but it was not really what I was looking for in 182 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,880 Wargaming. Like it was just over over 183 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,960 competitive. The the the scene around here 184 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:34,360 locally was not real nice or friendly people. 185 00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:36,320 They just wasn't a very good environment. 186 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,840 Even though I loved playing the game, I love the universe, I 187 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,320 love the models, I just didn't have fun playing with the people 188 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:42,680 that were playing it at the time. 189 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:50,040 So I just got out of Wargaming completely until about probably 190 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:55,440 2010 and I got back into it after I got out of trade school 191 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:59,200 and I was like, I really want to get back into wargaming and 192 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,880 Warhammer actually wasn't my first choice to get back into 193 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,160 it. I I started looking at other 194 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,040 games. I was playing historical games 195 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:09,200 and just some other stuff. I wanted to play everything else 196 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,960 but Warhammer because I had all these bad experiences playing 197 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,240 Warhammer. But eventually I got dragged 198 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,880 back into it and I actually found a good group of guys to 199 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,400 play with. But I didn't like the modern 200 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,120 iteration of the rules. I didn't like the models. 201 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,600 I had fun playing just for the spirit of playing and I like the 202 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,200 people that were playing, but I didn't really. 203 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:30,800 I was like, I don't really like these rules. 204 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,200 I don't really like the models. I don't like the style, the 205 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,920 aesthetic. And I started playing with my 206 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,920 childhood friend that got me back into it. 207 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,240 And he was like, why don't we just play the, the game we 208 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,920 played when we were kids? That was way more interesting. 209 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:46,160 Remember all that crazy shit that happened like vortex 210 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,640 grenades and vehicles got going out of control and stuff. 211 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,760 I was like, yeah, let's do that. So we started getting back into 212 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:57,000 second edition 40K and that was around probably 2012, you know, 213 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,600 just a couple years after I got back into wargaming. 214 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,880 And ever since then I've, you know, I, I've been playing 215 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,040 second edition 40K and old, you know, amongst other things, but 216 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,120 second edition 40K is definitely my favorite miniatures game 217 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,200 without a doubt, like without hesitation, I would say that. 218 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,040 Awesome man, That's great. So yeah, I think we've all sort 219 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,160 of for me too. I played it back in 95 when I 220 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:26,720 came back from 96 when I came back from the UK, really started 221 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,560 playing because I didn't play it before then. 222 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:32,160 So played it with Marcus and a few other guys that I knew 223 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,200 through the club, look club there as well. 224 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,720 But yeah, it didn't have a great extensive, you know, history or 225 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,080 knowledge of the game, to be honest. 226 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,640 So it wasn't until that I met Paul and, you know, we thought 227 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,600 we could get him back in the second edition. 40 Ki bought the 228 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,680 box set of Brad on Australia and some books and stuff like that. 229 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:57,200 Got the orc army, classic Rd. trade orc army from a good 230 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,720 friend David in the States in a, in a paint trade deal. 231 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,280 And that sort of set the basis for us, you know, playing again. 232 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,480 And yeah, it's been interesting coming back because there is a 233 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,760 certain hidden gem about second edition 40K which is very quite 234 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,800 unique. It's obviously the it's, you 235 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,040 know, Rd. Trader was like the Genesis. 236 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,840 And then second edition became more of this full fleshed, fully 237 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:21,760 encased kind of beast, you know what I mean? 238 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,440 Like it took a lot of things, a lot of DNA from Rd. 239 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,000 Trader, but they were sort of refined it and gave this 240 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,880 beautiful colored gloss over with the cards and, you know, 241 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,680 all that kind of stuff. Yeah. 242 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:36,720 So for for guys who like for us who have come from, you know, 243 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:41,520 playing in the 90s and playing now, do you still hold it as to 244 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,200 be as one of the greatest games they've made or you're still one 245 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,080 of your favorite games You play in terms of second like as in 246 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,440 terms of any addition you play the 40K Ken, what do you 247 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,720 recommend? It's a game is game. 248 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:57,520 It's a game for people who really appreciate the time and 249 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,200 effort for wargaming. So even the guys when they 250 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:06,800 created second edition, that was such a an evolving from Rogue 251 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,320 Trader where they had to get they had to get commercial about 252 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:10,720 it. They had to make something into 253 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,840 it. But then they were able to take 254 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,840 a lot of what Rogue Trader was the feeling, the flavor of Rogue 255 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,600 Trader, that small skirmish game and put it into this game, which 256 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,320 made it awesome. The invention of army books 257 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,000 hadn't really been done until then. 258 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,880 That was a, you know, revelation in itself. 259 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,960 You've got it's just the game itself works so well until it 260 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:41,120 gets too big, until until you hit like 2003 thousand, 5000 261 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,960 points, the game just breaks down into an absolute mess. 262 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,840 And that's where third edition comes into play, where you could 263 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:49,200 put more models. Like if you listen to any of the 264 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,560 stuff from the guys who created second edition, they all said, 265 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:53,840 yeah, the game worked really well. 266 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,200 Small never worked, well, big. And as soon as the Games 267 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,680 Workshop started producing more models, they had to come up with 268 00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:02,200 other ways to actually design the game, because the game 269 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,920 wasn't ever designed for the model range the Games Workshop 270 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,400 eventually had. But for me, if you want to have 271 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,520 a small, fun skirmish game that's got all the flavor, 272 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,200 second is where it's at. All right, pure gaming. 273 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,360 Cool, OK, I think so too. Now we've got sci-fi. 274 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,480 He's joined us. Now I know he's in the UK, so 275 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,520 sci-fi, you're awake at this time of morning, mate. 276 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,200 This is like, I don't know what time it is over there, but 277 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,240 bloody hell, it's late. It's like early morning over 278 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,280 there. So thanks, mate, for joining us. 279 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,880 Yeah. And Banjo Destructo. 280 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,480 This means he's Richard. I don't know if that means 281 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,880 Richard from from bringing Battle Richard. 282 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:44,680 I'm not sure. So I think he's referring don't 283 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:47,920 be a Dick. So I have no idea, maybe gives a 284 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,200 bit more context there and who which Richard you're talking 285 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,960 about. But yeah, guys, look, look, 286 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,680 yeah, I think we can all agree that, yeah, second edition holds 287 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:57,520 a special place in our hearts from from the 90s. 288 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,040 And of course, we're, you know, that nostalgia grab is, is quite 289 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,760 strong for us. The models I think would be the 290 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,680 biggest thing for me. Yeah. 291 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:09,600 Like I love my I love my Kev Adams second edition and road 292 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,160 trader orcs and the JS Goodwin elder. 293 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,520 And you know, you could you could string off a number of 294 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:18,520 different armies, a number of different models that really 295 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,760 encapture what it what it was like to play second edition. 296 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,800 So guys, do you have any particular favorites of yours 297 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,560 that you have either painted back in the day that you got 298 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,480 recently and recently acquired and started painting? 299 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:36,200 Ken, what about you, man? I went through and repainted all 300 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:42,840 my SO my first box set for Rd. Trader was the RBT 01 Space 301 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,960 Marine box, where I've painted space walls because they're Gray 302 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,200 and Gray was really easy to paint. 303 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,160 This is before they became Nordic Viking space Mariaries. 304 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:57,040 So you know, there is that last thing I painted for Rd. trade. 305 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:02,400 I actually, yeah, I got a 3D print of a Chuck Dreadnought and 306 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,120 I painted it up for my Night Lords Heresy army, would you 307 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:12,600 believe, just to annoy people, all these young kids that come 308 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,960 into heresy and like, and yeah, they think they're old school 309 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:17,040 because they're playing heresy. Go. 310 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,040 I'm older than you mate. I'm so much. 311 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:25,040 Older than you have this Chuck. This Chuck is predate heresy, 312 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:27,840 but I still love doing that sort of stuff. 313 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,520 I painted up some Eldar not long ago just to test my painting 314 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,280 skills. If I that actually come along at 315 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,560 any sort of because you know, when you painted when you're 316 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,080 younger compared to what you paint now and the style and 317 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,440 techniques that you have are so much different than what we used 318 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,440 to use. Like I'm like you, Josh, because 319 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,920 you're a really good painter. I was shit, I was terrible and I 320 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,120 was just taking me years and years and years of actually 321 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,160 working on it. So it's nice to repaint some old 322 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,000 models and you know, get get a bit of a jolly out of that. 323 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,720 I don't do goblin green bases but what are you guys feelings 324 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,480 on goblin green bases? Like it's an absolute must back. 325 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,200 How dare you not do that game. How dare you. 326 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,079 But like even back in the 90s, even back in the 90s. 327 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:10,480 And people probably don't know this about me. 328 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,880 I never based anything with goblin green bases. 329 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,720 Yeah, right. My second edition was based on 330 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:19,400 black rim bases with like cat litter. 331 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,240 You know that shit cat litter. We used to put that on the. 332 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,960 I never actually. Never actually paid a bill. 333 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,080 So yeah, only now that I'm sort of doing Goblin Green basing 334 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:32,520 now. But haven't you, Cody? 335 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,120 It's not a it's not a must for me, but if I'm doing a second 336 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,200 edition or Rd. trader specific army, I'm going goblin green 337 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,440 bases. I like I, I actually do like I, 338 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,240 I appreciate the aesthetic of it. 339 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,800 And I think it really makes like, especially if you're doing 340 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:51,080 like brightly colored, you know, very vibrant models. 341 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,040 They they really, it really makes them pop, you know, on the 342 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,760 tabletop. But it's not a must for me. 343 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,960 I mean, I do other types of basing, but if I'm painting an 344 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:02,920 army from that specific period or you know, even a Warhammer 345 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:06,400 Fantasy army I like, I like the Galvin Green for sure. 346 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,160 I definitely usually go that route. 347 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,800 Yep. I can't do it from from Games 348 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:13,840 Workshop days and we had our painting tax. 349 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,800 I know you remember the painting tax and everything. 350 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,200 Every model I ever painted for 2 1/2 three years had a Goblin 351 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,200 green base. I was like, no, I'm fucking 352 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,880 done, done, done with Goblin green. 353 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,320 I get it. I get the aesthetic, I get what 354 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:32,360 you're trying to put down. But my space walls, my when I 355 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,280 repainted all my space walls, they're on like a nice icy snow 356 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:36,960 base because it pops better with the Gray. 357 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,000 You know what I mean? I've got, I do have some old 358 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,760 armies from back in those days. My mate who I used to work with, 359 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:44,240 he actually gave me all his armies. 360 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,000 They're all on beautiful goblin green bases. 361 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,760 I appreciate it. I get it. 362 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,480 But we have battle mats now. We have cool stuff. 363 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:53,960 Now we don't play on goblin green tables that were painted 364 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,160 in the shop. Yeah, yeah, totally. 365 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:58,720 Just chip board painted green, right? 366 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,960 Yeah, nobody's, nobody's rolling out a goblin green mat. 367 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,440 Well, I, I, I'll be honest with you, I'd still kind of, I, I 368 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,480 appreciate the modern aesthetic as much as I appreciate the, 369 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:13,040 the, the new aesthetic. So occasionally I like going 370 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,880 down nostalgia lane and just rolling out like a green cloth 371 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:16,880 and laying out. School. 372 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:19,360 Like terrain and playing that way. 373 00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:22,120 But I have, you know, like, yeah, I've got tons of really 374 00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:25,880 nice battle mats and tons of 3D printed terrain and stuff. 375 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:27,680 And, you know, I, I'll go both ways. 376 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,320 I appreciate all aspects of that. 377 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,960 So I can see both sides of the coin on it. 378 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,840 And I, I like both of them, you know? 379 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,080 I think one of the one of the manufacturers need to come out 380 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,600 with goblin green. Just flat Goblin green. 381 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,840 No texture, just Goblin green. Just all that sucker out because 382 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:44,880 at least they don't get the aesthetic. 383 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:46,560 Yeah, yeah, you'd be all over it. 384 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,480 It's like, at least I get the feeling of a nice mat underneath 385 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,720 my miniatures and like these are old lead miniatures. 386 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,200 When they fall over then I smash into 1000 pieces. 387 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,880 This would be a good thing, right? 388 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,160 There you go, mat makers. If you're listening, Goblin 389 00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,960 Green mat. All our second head players will 390 00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:02,640 buy one. Well, let, let let me enlighten 391 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,920 you, Oh, creator of D bad. You can take. 392 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,520 Oh yeah, you can take a photo of my table, right, Like I've got. 393 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,560 Yeah, all flocked. Yeah, it was all flocked. 394 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,080 It's flock table. I'll take a photo of that. 395 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,120 I sent it to I think Frontline Gaming. 396 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:16,440 Yeah, they. Take that image, they 397 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,600 superimpose it onto the mat. They they basically screen print 398 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:23,520 that image onto the mat. So I could have what I have here 399 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,520 on an on an actual, you know, mouse mat thing. 400 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,000 Nice. So we can have the goblin green 401 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,280 one side and then we can have the Necrom on the Gray on the 402 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:36,520 other side. Don't like it, but you know when 403 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,120 we when we played in back in the day, we never had a goblin green 404 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:42,760 flocks board. No, we never had them in the 405 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,600 shops. It's a chip board painted Goblin 406 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:45,000 green. Yeah. 407 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,480 Yeah, that's right. And we played on the. 408 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,960 Floor and if you're really fancy you got the train railway grass 409 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,840 mat and you roll that out and you you glue that your table. 410 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:02,680 I still got mine from from 1995. My mate gave me my his table, a 411 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:07,400 three-part chip board table. It's got a railway glass on it 412 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,000 with every stain known to man on it. 413 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,680 That's. Great to inquire any further on 414 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:18,000 that one, but yeah, OK. But yeah, but yeah, like mats 415 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:20,640 are great. I I can't, I can't ignore the 416 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,720 fact that it's nice to you know, you can so smooth and silky 417 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,400 smooth. You can push, I can push my 418 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,840 little UN unmoved trade regiments across the table nice 419 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,320 and easily. It's feeling of the dice rolling 420 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,880 on them and that kind of thing. So yeah, I'm not, I'm totally 421 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,160 not opposed to the new, the new technology out there with making 422 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,680 maths. I think it's bloody amazing. 423 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,640 You know, I use them myself. But yeah, in terms of like old 424 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,200 school gaming, you got to, you got to do the old school way. 425 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,920 I think that's my philosophy. I did. 426 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,080 Nigel Stillman coming through with me, I think maybe. 427 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,120 Yeah. Sci-fi says how could I miss 428 00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:55,360 this? Well, I'm really glad to see you 429 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:56,760 here mate. I'm really glad you could come 430 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,440 on. And I don't know what time it is 431 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,640 over there, but yeah, please get some sleep. 432 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,040 But hey, it's Friday and it's Friday over there for you guys, 433 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:04,680 so you should. Be all right, he probably hasn't 434 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,600 gone to bed yet. No, probably not. 435 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,640 As for zombie, thanks mate for coming on group. 436 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,040 We've got guys right here, greens from Texas. 437 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:12,560 Yeah. He's a good buddy of mine. 438 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:13,720 What's up? Cool. 439 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:17,280 Nice, awesome, and Goblin Green all the way. 440 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:19,720 There you go, Testament. Goblin Green all the way. 441 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,680 Well, it's it's a divider. It's something that, you know, 442 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,400 people. Sorry, I didn't. 443 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,400 It's it divides the community sometimes. 444 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,280 It definitely divides the Facebook group. 445 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,920 If you post a miniature on a Facebook group without a goblin 446 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,320 green base, you get the purest coming out going. 447 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,560 You can't do that. No, just get over. 448 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,400 I will paint my little men the way I want to paint them, mate. 449 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,160 I'm not. I'm not going to tell you how to 450 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,120 do what you want to do, mate. You just do whatever you want. 451 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:53,120 Exactly what's like happy mate. It's like when you take a second 452 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,480 Ed miniature that are normally bright, colorful. 453 00:22:57,360 --> 00:23:00,480 And you know, I do appreciate the aesthetic of a crisp paint 454 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:05,520 job, but I also my preferred painting style is grim dark. 455 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,680 So I really like grim dark marines. 456 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,080 I like grim dark more. My chaos is bright, but it's 457 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,800 kind of gritty at the same time. So what you got to do? 458 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:17,840 Just get them painted like we're all older now. 459 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,400 There is no excuse to have a second head army that's not 460 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,720 painted. You've had an ear, can roll it 461 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,840 up. So don't come rolling up to me 462 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,240 wanting a game of second head and pulling out Gray. 463 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,120 The few of you, Not on. Yeah, yeah. 464 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,200 Not on. Yeah, We, we I think Cody's the 465 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,920 same. We don't play unpainted stuff, 466 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,200 you know, Everything has to be. Painted. 467 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:42,400 All the terrain has to be made and and painted and. 468 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,160 I have an 80% rule. To be honest, I actually have an 469 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,080 80% rule. You can have 80% of your army 470 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,120 has to be painted, and that 20% can either be partially or it 471 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:52,320 might be something you're trying out. 472 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:57,000 I get it, that's fine. But the game's about immersion. 473 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,360 Be immersed, that's it. Rock up and Gray. 474 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,240 That's it. Otherwise play tabletop tactics 475 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,560 or the tabletop, what is it called? 476 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,840 Tabletop Simulator. You've got everything done, 477 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,200 everything's painted, everything's done, everything's, 478 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,000 you know, all there but. How do you guys feel about 479 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,440 Tabletop Simulator for 2nd Ed? I like it. 480 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,520 I think it's fine. I do it a lot because I have 481 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,440 good friends of mine that live thousands of miles away. 482 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,320 Yeah, and you know, we can't play. 483 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,120 I don't have like I would do remote gaming. 484 00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:29,280 I don't have room here to set up a 4 by 6 table and you know 485 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,400 remote do that like I live in a one bedroom apartment. 486 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,560 It's just not going to happen. My wife would be quite furious 487 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,720 if I set up a war game. So. 488 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,520 But maybe, maybe I should do it anyways do? 489 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:44,400 It on the bed mate, do it on the bed. 490 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:46,120 Yeah, yeah, totally. I just do it on the floor like 491 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:50,360 we did when we were kids. But yeah, no, I I don't have a 492 00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:52,320 problem with Tabletop Simulator at at all. 493 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,280 I use it quite often to play games. 494 00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:56,760 I think it's, it's not the best way. 495 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,640 Like I'd much prefer to go over to my friend's house and have a 496 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,320 beer and take our time and have all the nice terrain and 497 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:03,960 miniatures. I mean that like you were 498 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,520 saying, Ken, I think that's an important part of gaming, 499 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,000 period. Miniature gaming especially is 500 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,360 the the aesthetics of it all laid out, all painted, and 501 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:15,040 you're sitting there and get to it's. 502 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,400 Yeah, I mean that that really is what that's like half the fun, 503 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,560 right? If, if, if your army is laid out 504 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,800 right and with all the good terrain, like it's just, it's 505 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,880 not you're, you're, you're missing out. 506 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,400 You know, the game is only half the fun. 507 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,280 Or really I'd say like a third, like 1/3 of it is hanging out 508 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,160 with good friends, having a good time. 509 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,880 The other third is like having these beautiful painted armies 510 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,800 with terrain. And then the other third is the 511 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,920 actual game, you know, So yeah, for, for, but for me, like just 512 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,760 to play a game and, you know, even, and if you know, me and my 513 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,760 buddy want to have a game like, and he lives 2000 miles away, 514 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:53,840 Tabletop Simulator is a decent choice. 515 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,040 I think it's really the only, I think there could be a better 516 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,640 software made. I don't think it's perfect. 517 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,800 It has a lot of problems, but for me it, it works fine for for 518 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,360 what it is, you know, like, and it's still the best thing that 519 00:26:06,360 --> 00:26:10,400 I've found digitally where we can actually play games like 520 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:11,240 that. And it works. 521 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,240 Works fine and. That's that's a decent point 522 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,000 block you got there, Cody. Yeah, it's. 523 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:22,960 A British pint glass. But yeah, I think that's, that's 524 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,040 the reason why we've gone down this rabbit hole. 525 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:26,960 You know what I mean? Collected all these armies, 526 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,240 spent all that time painting it. You have the satisfaction with 527 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,040 your, the person you're playing with. 528 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,080 They reciprocate, they paint their armies and you have a 529 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,120 beautiful looking display because it's the spectacle, 530 00:26:37,120 --> 00:26:39,640 isn't, isn't it? At the end of the day, that's 531 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,000 what you really get to enjoy the achievements of doing all that 532 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,240 work. So sci-fi says it's like 3:30 533 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,160 AM, but Friday night is so it's all good. 534 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,640 Nice one. OK, Astra Zombie. 535 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,520 Says he hasn't gone to bed yet. Yeah. 536 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:53,560 I just like mine. All goblin green. 537 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,320 Fair enough mate. Our group is a house rule. 538 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,760 Unpainted as in -1 armor save. We painted stuff as quick as we 539 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,440 could. We should be like goblin or 540 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,240 something. That's a good rule. 541 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:06,120 I like it. Yeah, it's good. 542 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,600 Also, when you have fully padded armies you get even better dice 543 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,080 rolls. At least convince your opponent 544 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:12,520 that happens. Yeah, well. 545 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,600 That's not for the first time you field it. 546 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,320 Whenever you freshly paint an army or a model or a unit and 547 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,760 you put it on the field, it dies in the first shot. 548 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:28,200 Yeah, that's really sad. And then every time it's 549 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,080 awesome. It's awesome. 550 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:30,160 That's a new one. I like that one. 551 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,840 It's awesome. You know, you know where it 552 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,280 really picked up that culture from though, because for the 553 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,520 longest time I didn't, I, I, I always painted, always painted 554 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,080 models, but I never got anything done. 555 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,440 But I really picked up that culture of getting everything 556 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,640 painted and done from the historical guys. 557 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,600 Yeah, yeah. But they get immersion like. 558 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,040 They understand immersion like. Exactly. 559 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,120 And they have. So much links for their tables 560 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,240 and everything. Yeah, and those guys, you know, 561 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,920 I when I got back into gaming, I I found a historical club here 562 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:03,840 and those guys are all older guys and you know, it's, it's a 563 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,240 proper like old school war games club. 564 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,800 You know, they have the spot, they play somebody, somebody 565 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,360 brings all the stuff, sets up the game, referees the game and 566 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:15,000 runs it for everybody else. And there's usually like two or 567 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,760 three games being ran every every week, right? 568 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,960 Like they, they meet on Tuesday nights and they do that every 569 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,280 week. But when I started going to 570 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,000 them, I really that's when it really clicked with me that, you 571 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:27,640 know, these guys know how to do it. 572 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,320 And this is so much more fun when when you know all the all 573 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:32,720 the miniatures have painted and everything else. 574 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,200 So I'll give props to the historical guys because they 575 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,360 really, they were the ones that properly taught me how to war 576 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,200 game you. Know pretty good drinkers as 577 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,600 well. Yeah, Oh yeah, for sure. 578 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,080 Yeah, dude, I, I they're good drinkers. 579 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,560 Holy shit. They they drink like fish. 580 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,160 But I find that the historical war gaming is where war game is 581 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:55,800 going to die. Because once you play with 582 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,800 historical for a long period of time, you're fucked. 583 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,800 That's all. I have my sell your 40K, sell 584 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,400 everything. Once you've called down that 585 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,640 rabbit hole, you're gone. Because what are you going to 586 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,480 do? Just argue over Napoleonic rules 587 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,640 for the next four years? Yeah, you will, because you'll 588 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,320 change them like underpants. I've had the opposite experience 589 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,400 actually. A lot of the like the lot of the 590 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,800 guy. Obviously I play historical 591 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,240 games and I still play 40 KA lot of the. 592 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,080 Oldest 40K you could find. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's 593 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,360 true. But you know, a lot of the guys, 594 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,560 historical guys I play with, they're, they actually are 595 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,520 really set on, they found their game, right? 596 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,480 They're they're, they have to hop around to games. 597 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,040 Like, you know, there's one guy in the club, he does World War 598 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,240 Two and they play command decision. 599 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,480 That's what they play. You know, they have like, you 600 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,240 know, and they play, we play Civil War, we play volley and 601 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,040 bayonet. That's what we play, you know, 602 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,520 like, so it's like a club. It's become like a club thing 603 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,320 where like they have like set rules for different time 604 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:55,680 periods. Now if somebody brings in a 605 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,440 different game, all cool, you know, like you're, you brought 606 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,960 the game, we'll play it. But there there is these like 607 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,760 standard games we play. And I really appreciate that. 608 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,480 So yeah, I mean, I kind of course that's completely 609 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,200 anecdotal. It's going to be different from 610 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,080 everybody's, you know? I'm just going from my 611 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,040 experience, everyone in my mind to the historical path has never 612 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,200 come back. Yeah. 613 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,240 But anyways, we're we're talking about second edition down here. 614 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:24,920 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all right. 615 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,280 We're for a bit. That's all right. 616 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,880 The words of Fury and his compound there underground, and 617 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:37,720 some hidden base and spreading. Out a lot of time with my own, I 618 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,440 get a lot of thoughts on my head and this is where it comes out. 619 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:41,760 Right, that's it. That's what we've got on here 620 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:42,640 mate. That's why we want your 621 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,560 perspective mate. OK, so now talking about second 622 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,320 edition, now if someone's you know, listening to this and 623 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,640 they're kind of curious about second edition about, you know, 624 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,800 what is this game, I never got to experience it. 625 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,360 I started a third edition or later editions and I want to go 626 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,800 back and try out what this game was like. 627 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,560 Now where would they go? And I would recommend, and I 628 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,480 think you guys might agree here would be if they're, if they're 629 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,040 a member of Facebook, go to the 40K140K second edition Facebook 630 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:15,600 group where you can find the file section and you can attain 631 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,920 a lot of assets through there. I'm just going to try to share 632 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,520 my screen here guys. And I'm going to just try to see 633 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:25,360 if we can share that particular screen with our viewers. 634 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,960 You can probably see it now, hopefully. 635 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,720 That's the one. That's the one. 636 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:35,800 OK, so it's got 8.6 men 8.6000 members, which is quite a quite 637 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,880 a pretty decent number of people actively playing second edition 638 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,120 or at least interested in this particular edition of of second 639 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,840 edition. So I was expressing the coding 640 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,600 before as well. It's a great way to find other 641 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:52,040 people and maybe located in your area that you could hook up with 642 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,840 and play games with or at least go to a club or some kind of 643 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,240 area or events where you could see it being played and maybe 644 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,640 participate in something as most of the guys are very open and 645 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,600 welcome about getting new people and new blood into the game. 646 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,360 So if you are a member of Facebook and you do find this 647 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,080 group, which I highly recommend you go visit, you've got this 648 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,080 file section when you click on here. 649 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:20,120 It's got a load of stuff in here and I'm pretty sure you'll find 650 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,120 the actual rule books and stuff like that here. 651 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,040 If not here, then you can find it somewhere as APDF online that 652 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,520 you can happily download and read through at your leisure. 653 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,360 But there's just a ton of information that was released, 654 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,960 of course, with White Dwarf magazine that came out through 655 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,400 the 90s for various different vehicles with their down effects 656 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,640 cards, because second edition was the time in the 90s where 657 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,280 cards were a thing for psychic powers, for war gear, and of 658 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,680 course, all the data effects cards for the vehicles. 659 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,280 So you'll find a lot of stuff here, either either user created 660 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,960 or official content that was released during the 90s. 661 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,080 You've got a wealth of information that you can go in 662 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,360 through and source from here, guys. 663 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,480 Any other comments about this particular Facebook group that 664 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,800 you want to mention at all? I think, yeah, I, I mean that 665 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,720 that's the place always direct people. 666 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,760 I think it pretty much has all the resources you need to get 667 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,880 started. And I'm pretty sure we're going 668 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,400 to bring it up next. But the, the 1st place I would 669 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,080 recommend starting is actually the the Battle Bible, which you 670 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,480 can find, you can find on the Facebook group there. 671 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,280 And that's probably the 1st place that would start, I don't 672 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,400 think. It's yeah, definitely. 673 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,720 I think the Battle Bible itself, because it has all the White 674 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,840 Dwarf, all the erratas, everything built into the one 675 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,440 spot, it means you're not flicking between things. 676 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,920 You don't get a lot of mixed messages about things. 677 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,560 And as a general rule for, you know, when I play second at 40, 678 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,240 Ki always say we're playing by Battle Bible. 679 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,920 It's just a lot easier to it's has every codex in there, has 680 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,880 every book in there. It's all up to date as much as 681 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,760 it could be and you know if this is what was used in tournaments 682 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,560 in the last of the 2nd and 40K tournaments. 683 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,560 So the last one that was ever held in Australia was actually 684 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:13,960 run by this, you know what I mean? 685 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,360 So and also the ones in the UK were run by this. 686 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,560 So if you want the most up to date rules as as an old system 687 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:24,280 can get this is the place to be then go out hunting then go 688 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:28,040 hunting for you know old cards and dark Millennium boxes and 689 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,560 stuff like that. If you want to get the nuance 690 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,880 and the feeling of it, all the cards and stuff, but you can 691 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,840 actually play the whole game just from this. 692 00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:37,880 Awesome. OK. 693 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,520 So yeah, as like camp was saying there, it's got everything 694 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,760 within a 275 page document here as APDF. 695 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,360 So any of the any of the rules, any of the Omnibook codexes that 696 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,480 you needed, it's everything's contained in one particular 697 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,280 file. So that's a really important 698 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,960 resource for anybody who's either an active player or 699 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:02,720 anybody who wants to jump in and try having a look and not having 700 00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:06,360 to spend any money initially. You can find it here on the 701 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,960 battle book. So I've I've left a link in the 702 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,280 description here. That's for the Newcastle legions 703 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,920 website, which is has a link in there as well. 704 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,760 But you can find this online. You you just just type in there. 705 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,160 Second edition 140K battle Bible. 706 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,760 It will come up in some iteration that you can download 707 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,960 for yourself and have a look. So so thanks guys for sharing 708 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,520 that information for people out there who might be quite kind of 709 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,840 curious about it now also sci-fi just mentioned here. 710 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,360 Are there any journal articles there too? 711 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,960 Man, there were massive amounts of in the. 712 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:47,040 Articles butter Barber's most up to date resource areas, so 713 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,720 pretty much any FAQ that you've got in there will be in there. 714 00:35:50,720 --> 00:35:53,400 That was worth knowing with the journal staff. 715 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,680 The journal stuff, some of the stuff just wasn't playable or 716 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,120 usable. If it was playable and usable, 717 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,240 it'd be in the Battle Bible. If it's not, it's more unique 718 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,800 and niche and you can play that as you will. 719 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,320 If you've got journals at home and you want to use it, go for 720 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:09,600 it. Some of the everyone knows, but 721 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,200 this is like, if you want to play with people who don't know 722 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,240 anything about it and if everyone's on the same page, 723 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:17,000 this is where you go. It's a bit random sometimes if 724 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,920 you rocked up and you go, I'm playing Battle Bible, but I've 725 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:24,880 got this journal from March 1998 and it's got this one rule. 726 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,480 It allows me to jam a vortex up your butt. 727 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,720 It's like, come on, you're. Enticing, doesn't it? 728 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,880 OK, so obviously you're a veteran, Kent, and you've 729 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,240 actually got your own Facebook group. 730 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:41,840 That's the road trader one, isn't it? 731 00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:43,840 For. Facebook Oh yeah, I created Rd. 732 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,520 Trader 40 Ki think it's 40K Road trader. 733 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:49,840 That's one of mine. I've had six. 734 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,880 I don't know, I've been in this game, this thing for so long. 735 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,120 I just started going off randomly creating groups. 736 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:58,400 Yeah. So the Rogue Trader one is mine. 737 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,520 That's a bit of a mix of Rogue Trader and 2nd Ed because they 738 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,400 do crossover quite a lot. Rogue Trader, for those that 739 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,120 don't know, what's the precursor to 2nd Ed? 740 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:11,800 40K. That's why it's called 2nd Ed, 741 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,080 because the 1st edition was Rogue Trader. 742 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,880 It wasn't a very complete game. It wasn't until really towards 743 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,800 the end of Road Trader that it started getting a like a proper 744 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,360 war game. Before that was more of a role 745 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,520 play game that you could use miniatures with and you can be 746 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,360 very flexed with it. And then they're so old, the 747 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,440 miniatures that they're kind of the fugly that only a mother 748 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,360 could love type scenario. Like you're either really into 749 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,440 them or you're not and you can't make them work. 750 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:44,600 I love them because I've got a lot of them and they're worth a 751 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,120 fortune each now. So, you know, congratulations if 752 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,560 you've got some. But yeah, so that's my my page 753 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,360 on that page as well. On the road trader. 754 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:59,440 I'm not sure they've got it on the 40K seconded, but there used 755 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:01,680 to be a army builder called Army. 756 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,160 What's it called? Army builder was the actual 757 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,960 software program. So that's no doesn't exist 758 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,880 anymore, but you can still get the army builder from that 759 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,800 Facebook group and it's actually got the hack in it. 760 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,240 So you can actually load up for your seconded stuff and build 761 00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:19,640 army lists out of it. All right, OK. 762 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,680 So instead of using the old pen and paper and all that sort of 763 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,200 stuff, you can actually build your list as per normal and it's 764 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,920 all in there as well. So that's all on the road train. 765 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,840 I'll find, I'll find the link for you and send it to you. 766 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,960 You can post it up. But yeah, so when when I ran 767 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,520 tournaments that that's how I did it. 768 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,280 So then everyone was writing, I wasn't receiving, you know, 769 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,800 somebody's dodgy Excel spreadsheet or somebody's 770 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,200 handwritten army list where I had to work everything out. 771 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,960 So I'd make them do that because it even works out the 772 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,680 percentages. So, you know, for your character 773 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,160 percentages and you know, troops a percentage, all that. 774 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,080 Yeah, I think Khan effects any one of those. 775 00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:57,520 I think it's from another I think. 776 00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,200 It's battle Battle scribe. Battle Scribe does. 777 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,320 It too I think battle scribes doing as well. 778 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,000 Now I'm not sure how how good it is compared to the old one, but 779 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,320 anything will do. As long as everyone's using the 780 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,720 same one, it's fine. It's pretty, it's pretty 781 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:12,520 accurate. I've checked it against the 782 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,520 codex's and stuff. It's it's pretty good. 783 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,960 I I haven't noticed, I think I've noticed one little error in 784 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,480 there so far from me using it. So yeah, it's pretty good. 785 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,520 Yeah, cool. Yeah, Battlescribe is free as 786 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:24,480 well. Awesome. 787 00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:27,720 Yep, that's good, because we all make mistakes. 788 00:39:27,720 --> 00:39:29,640 I do anyway. When I'm writing it by hand, I 789 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:31,440 always do. I write. 790 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:32,440 I write the wrong blood. I'll. 791 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,240 Call that cheating, Josh. No, no, no, I do it. 792 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:36,920 I do it. Like I said, battle to me, not 793 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:39,360 to my opponents. It's like I'm screwing myself, 794 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:40,720 you know? I do that really well. 795 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,600 Stranglers, Wood hobbies. Afternoon guys checking in from 796 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,880 3:00-ish hours away from Kent. There you go, mate. 797 00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,760 Nice to see you here. Yeah, but yeah, I often make 798 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,960 mistakes with pen and paper, so having that sort of a nice 799 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,840 modern digital application to do all that sort of stuff with is 800 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,880 really helpful. Also that battle scribe. 801 00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:04,240 Also has a lot of has like a sheet with all the rules on 802 00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:05,280 there as well. It does. 803 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,840 At the back end of it goes up just. 804 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,720 Because all that stuff I get to forget, you know, and that that 805 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:14,080 way I've got to I can consciously see, OK, that does 806 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,040 that, that a special rule for this, you know. 807 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,320 So that's really hand handy. But again, it's like a it's like 808 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,120 a non funded kind of app. It's not something you buy. 809 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,360 It's something that someone's doing out of their own free 810 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,000 time. So, yeah, anything, anything 811 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,880 like that? Yeah, exactly, man. 812 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:31,640 That's right. Exactly. 813 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,120 Yeah, they're doing it. I see comments on like on a lot 814 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,400 of Facebook group pages and people start getting cranky at 815 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,200 Army builders and like, this doesn't have this and doesn't do 816 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,200 this, and it miscalculates it all the time. 817 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:43,520 You're like, dude, you thought it was free. 818 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,640 Work it out, sort it out. He's up. 819 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,240 It's it's a stupid thing to use on your phone. 820 00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:53,320 I can't use it on my phone. I just it just I think on APC it 821 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,640 must be a lot better to use. I I will say one thing about 822 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,400 Battlescribe, it's a little bit of a learning curve to set it 823 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,040 up. So don't get frustrated setting 824 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,760 it up like once you once you figure it out, you figure it out 825 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,920 it but like it yeah, I'll just give a warning out there that I 826 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,120 got a little frustrated the first time I was trying to set 827 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,960 it up, but it it it works great. Like you can load up multiple 828 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,440 games on there. It's pretty accurate. 829 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,040 I haven't again, I haven't found many issues with it. 830 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,960 I really do love that it has all the special rules and stuff on 831 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,840 there, which is really. I use it for all the game 832 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,520 systems I play. Yeah, it's, it's fantastic. 833 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,360 But it does take a little bit of a learning curve to set. 834 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,200 It does, yeah. All right, so now we talked 835 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:38,960 about the rules and how to get back into it. 836 00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:42,120 How about people finding miniatures and that kind of 837 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:43,520 thing? What kind of suggestions would 838 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,080 you have about people who want to get the genuine article 839 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,400 miniatures, the old metal ones? Cody, what do you reckon mate? 840 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:55,560 Well there so you can go after the old stuff now. 841 00:41:55,560 --> 00:42:00,320 I do not recommend eBay eBay you you can still find a good deal 842 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:03,720 on there occasionally and keep your eyes peeled on there. 843 00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:06,080 Nothing wrong with looking because case occasionally you'll 844 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,480 find something on there. But the the best way to go is 845 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,640 usually try to find trade groups on Facebook. 846 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,560 Try to hook up with people like on the crown of command right 847 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,520 like these. These guys are going to help you 848 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,200 like wheel and deal and find find you deals. 849 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:28,280 Another good source is if you go to conventions, actually going 850 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,040 to conventions. Now I understand that people 851 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,000 like here in the US, we're we're pretty spoiled on conventions 852 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,480 and people in other countries are not so much it depends where 853 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,360 you live, but I've had really good luck here in the US going 854 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,640 to conventions. And a lot of times they have 855 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,640 these flea markets. So don't go to the resellers. 856 00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,440 Don't go to the resellers because they're going to, 857 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,160 they're going to they're going to have it priced. 858 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,600 EBay prices go into the hall in the back hall where the guys 859 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,880 just setting up his shit to fire sell and dig through all that 860 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:58,880 crap. And you, you might look out. 861 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,880 I've, I've found some really crazy deals going to those flea 862 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,960 market sales at the conventions. So that that would be my other 863 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,080 suggestion. Another thing I would say is 864 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,920 just look, look at like Facebook marketplace and Craigslist and 865 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,320 stuff. Occasionally very rare, I have 866 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,200 found like some deals like that. I've even found stuff at garage 867 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,480 sales, believe it or not, you know, occasionally. 868 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,280 So you just never know. You never know. 869 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,360 Just just keep your eye out wherever you go. 870 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,040 And if you're really determined, the thing I would say is just be 871 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,960 patient. Don't settle, get what you want, 872 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,960 but just be patient. Don't don't just, you know, 873 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,560 spend too much money. Don't spend more money than you 874 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,120 have to, right? And if you have to collect just 875 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,200 a few models at a time, fine, Just do it that like just get a 876 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:46,040 few models, paint them up, you know, and then you'll find a few 877 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:47,640 more models. Paint those up, you know, and 878 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:49,400 just take your time with it. It's a hobby, right? 879 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,520 And I, I think that's kind of part of the enjoyment of the 880 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,520 nostalgic wargaming hobby is like hunting that stuff down. 881 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,840 It's like collecting, like I collect records and comics and 882 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,280 stuff. It's kind of the same thing, 883 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,200 right? Like it's, it's part of the fun. 884 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,200 It's kind of the hunt of finding that stuff. 885 00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:08,960 But I, I think the best resource is hooking up with other people. 886 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,960 So, you know, go to the crown of commands, a good one. 887 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,640 There's other discords and Facebook groups and all that 888 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,000 stuff. Get to know those guys, connect 889 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,160 with people, they'll hook you up, right? 890 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,880 Like just just ask around and they'll hook you up. 891 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,680 Yeah, very good advice, Cody. How about you can't? 892 00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,320 Any more words of advice there from the Battle Bunker? 893 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:33,360 Yeah, even, like family and friends, you know, like you 894 00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,640 don't, you don't think about it being your social interactions 895 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,000 when people find out you play. I call it Pew pews. 896 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,640 If I go play Pew pews, what are you doing? 897 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,280 I'm going to go play Pew pews for the weekend. 898 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,280 They go. What are you talking about? 899 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,560 Toy soldiers? Oh, I've got a cousin's friend 900 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,440 or kid who's had that and there's a box sitting in the 901 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,920 attic and you want it and like, yeah, sure, bring it in. 902 00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,280 I'll. I'll take it off your hands. 903 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,800 My best deals come up from that. Straight my eBay. 904 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:05,040 No, I don't. I will not, no. 905 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,960 I'll sell my stuff there and I'll do it by auction, but so 906 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:12,840 rent time. The people on eBay have 907 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:18,120 artificially inflated the price of stuff so badly to the point 908 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:24,120 where it's not even reasonable. It's not even unless you're 909 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,480 talking to other people who know, like I'm on another 910 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,920 Facebook group, I think it's called old hammer evaluations 911 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,680 where people post up things and we give them a, a rough estimate 912 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,840 of valuation and you, you give them a value for something they 913 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:37,960 go, but that's not what they had on eBay. 914 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,280 And you're like, no, but that's what we're willing to pay for 915 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,560 it. Like, and normally we're 916 00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,760 willing, willing to pay for second admin inches roughly is 917 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,480 retail plus about 20% from back in the day, depending on the 918 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,360 condition of it. Some models are worth more than 919 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,040 others, but not very many are. You know what I mean? 920 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,920 Like they, they unless it's in a pristine box and you're looking 921 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,800 at pristine stuff, then you're looking at retail plus 50% 922 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,600 retail plus 80. Unless it's a super duper rare 923 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,000 weird thing like a Goku Moka boss that was only around for 924 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,080 like 5 minutes before it disappeared. 925 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,280 You know what I mean? Or like the miniatures that come 926 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,320 to my head. The Legion of the damn Sergeant. 927 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,760 Oh yeah, you know, one of the, one of the, you know, the holy 928 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,320 grails of miniatures is a Legion of the damn Sergeant. 929 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,160 You can. And like Cody said, it's like if 930 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,000 you set your mind to it, you set the price you're willing to pay 931 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,160 for it, then forget about it. That's what I do. 932 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:37,360 I forget about, I go whatever, I'll just, I'll if it comes up, 933 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,160 it comes up. So I had a thing where I was 934 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,240 collecting dragon ogres for Fantasy Battle. 935 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,760 And if anyone knows the dragon Ogre, it's a massive LED model. 936 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,200 Back in the day, it was $49.00 for one. 937 00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:51,120 That's for one bloody dragon ogre in Australia. 938 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:53,240 It was 49 bucks. It was 50 bucks for one dragon 939 00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:55,480 ogre. I set my mind to Amara. 940 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,000 I'm going to click some dragon. I guess I needed some dragon, I 941 00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,760 guess for whatever reason that I had in my head. 942 00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:03,480 And over a period of about four years, I've managed to collect 943 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:09,280 over 25 of them in various bundle deals and bits and bobs 944 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:14,000 and people just it just comes it's like the secret, all right, 945 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,880 You put your intentions out in the world and they come to you. 946 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:18,960 It's. Like a mantra. 947 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,040 Yeah, you got to say it's one dragon. 948 00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,640 You just got to put it out there and he just comes here like I 949 00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:28,680 was missing. Oh, that's actually a funny 950 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:33,120 story. So thanks to Texas, I was 951 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:38,280 missing the back banner pole of Carl Franz for Warhammer. 952 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,720 All right, A random piece of kit went on to buddy everywhere, 953 00:47:42,720 --> 00:47:46,320 searched around, did everything. People were wanting like 50-60 954 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,120 dollars type sort of thing for one part of a model. 955 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,240 Some random dude I just posted up in a place, but I'm looking 956 00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:53,960 for this bit. I know I'm going to pay, you 957 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,680 know, we're going to pay 20-30 bucks for it. 958 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:57,160 I said look, I'm going to pay for it, whatever. 959 00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,200 Dude just sent me the whole fucking Carl France and said 960 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,560 have it as long as you're paying it, do it. 961 00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:06,880 And I went it cost him $60 to ship it to Australia. 962 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,680 This is in the middle of COVID. And then he sent me a sticker 963 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,080 and he goes dude just remember Texas is great. 964 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,120 I love. It now. 965 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,200 That's that's another thing that I would say is that this part of 966 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,160 like the old school war gaming ethic, right, is to to. 967 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,000 Get back. To get back. 968 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,880 And like, yeah. And I, I do it all the time, 969 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,160 right? Like if I have some models, 970 00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:30,880 yeah, if I got some models hanging around, I'm not using 971 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:32,120 them. And somebody wants to get into 972 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,320 the hobby and you want this army. 973 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:35,960 Here you go, man. Like we'll make a trade or 974 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:36,720 something. Whatever. 975 00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:39,000 I don't, I don't care. I got my fun out of it. 976 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:43,640 You get your fun out of it like and then I think that's and and, 977 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:44,840 you know. Bags of shame. 978 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,440 They can have a part of my bag of shame, I don't care. 979 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,360 Just totally, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I'm all about it. 980 00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:52,880 Like, I'll just give stuff away or just make like a reasonable 981 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,600 trade or whatever. Like it doesn't matter to me. 982 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,480 Like I, I, you know, and I think that's an important thing that 983 00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,320 us old school gamers realize, but a lot of the new school guys 984 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:05,080 need to realize this, you know, that's, that's part of the, 985 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,240 that's part of like just the old school ethic of war gaming. 986 00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:10,080 It's just giving back to people and get. 987 00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:15,400 Yeah, 100%, yeah. So yeah, keep it up and God 988 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:16,840 bless Texas. Yeah. 989 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:23,280 God bless Texas man you. Love your Texas, Let's pass past 990 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,760 the America shop that they're more interesting to me than the 991 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:30,160 sort of northern areas or Midwest areas of America, to be 992 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,200 honest. Yeah, I don't think my stomach 993 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,600 would handle Texas, but. Yeah, oh, the food. 994 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:42,800 Oh, man, Texas cooking, he said. It's Louisiana, but oh jeez, I. 995 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,680 Think I just put on 4 kilos thinking about it. 996 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,320 But that's a really important point that Cody made. 997 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:55,280 And I I've also been the recipient of some amazing 998 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,480 generously people out there in the community because obviously, 999 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,120 obviously the crown command is a big part of that. 1000 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,640 But obviously, you know, just once they know you're in that 1001 00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:08,160 circle of or group of people on Facebook, they know you're 1002 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,680 genuine and they know that you're not going to just, you 1003 00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,560 know, flog off what they sell you for cheap for, for a profit. 1004 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,080 They know that you're in the hobby for the right reasons and 1005 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:18,400 all that kind of thing. And once you make those 1006 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:23,280 connections within with people in the hobby, it's like, it's 1007 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,800 like you say, it's like, you know, you get a good deal, you 1008 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,480 give a good deal, you know, it sort of reciprocates that way. 1009 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,320 And yeah, thanks, thanks to the amazing people in the Crown of 1010 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,560 Command, especially. We do that a lot through our 1011 00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,040 Discord. You know, people sell it for a 1012 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:39,040 reasonable price. They get stuff for a reasonable 1013 00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:44,320 price. sci-fi sent me a very kindly sent me one part of the 1014 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:49,280 hot splat gun for Rogue Trader. I had the I had the I had the 1015 00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:53,520 actual chassis, the the sort of the plate on the front, but I 1016 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,200 just didn't. It just didn't come with any 1017 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,640 guns. So he very kindly sent me one of 1018 00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,720 those because he watched one of my videos on YouTube and said, 1019 00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:02,240 Oh, you know, I've got I found this in my bits box here. 1020 00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:04,200 Might you just take it, you know, so you can, so I can 1021 00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:05,640 actually complete one, which is awesome. 1022 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,000 So thanks for that sci-fi. That's great. 1023 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,560 So I've got one hot splat gun from Rd. trader. 1024 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,360 So we'll help each other. You know, we do that. 1025 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,120 You know, I help people out if I can, if I've got some something 1026 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:20,600 they need and I would rather them have it then paint it then 1027 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,120 play with us than it just sitting here in a box for God 1028 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,200 knows how many years and maybe never get touched or whatever, 1029 00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:30,880 you know? There's one golden rule though, 1030 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,360 if I give you something and then I find it on fucking Facebook 1031 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,200 marketplace or eBay, you are fucking dead to me. 1032 00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:43,440 You are gone. You are a lot of the trash. 1033 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:45,920 Delete me from your friend group. 1034 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:47,960 I don't. I don't want to talk to you ever 1035 00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:49,760 again. I've had it happen too. 1036 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:51,840 Oh, I've had it happen to me multiple. 1037 00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:54,080 Times, yeah. Like, you know, I, I give 1038 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,520 somebody a good deal on something and then like they, 1039 00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:58,760 they flip it like in a couple of weeks. 1040 00:51:59,240 --> 00:52:02,240 What the fuck? Dude, like, I'm hunting some 1041 00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:04,280 stuff for my son. Can anyone help me out? 1042 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,600 Yeah, here's some stuff. And then you see it on fucking 1043 00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:09,760 marketplace. It's like, no, dude, don't even 1044 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,000 know. Yeah, no. 1045 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:16,440 So there you go, young you Dick. Exactly. 1046 00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:18,160 Well, that's a good segue there, actually. 1047 00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,040 Again. So we're going to talk about 1048 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,480 don't be a Dick, because this is a system you've created with 1049 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,560 your guys there in Newcastle, part of Newcastle Legions, Yeah. 1050 00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,560 Organized play of second edition 40K Yeah. 1051 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:34,800 Yes, right. So for those that have played a 1052 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,840 lot of, and yeah, if you go into the 40K second edition Facebook 1053 00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,320 group page, you'll see a lot of even like Josh's battle reports 1054 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,600 and things like that. You do a 2000 point game. 1055 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,920 There's certain hard restrictions within the rules of 1056 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:53,240 second edition that actually go against the style of play that 1057 00:52:53,240 --> 00:52:55,040 actually intended for you to play with. 1058 00:52:55,040 --> 00:53:00,560 And what I mean by that is 40K second Ed is really a drill 1059 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:05,320 down, detailed skirmish game. It's not a grandiose go game of 1060 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,040 epic proportions. Unfortunately, that's where it 1061 00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:12,440 went. So starting from the 1st army 1062 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,480 book, which I think was Eldar was on that space was the first 1063 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,480 book, then Eldar, and then we started going through. 1064 00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,040 There was no balancing. There's no, you know, the game 1065 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,160 testing was just didn't exist. All right. 1066 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,520 So as you progress through and then towards the end of the army 1067 00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,360 book scheduling, they got to the point where they're like fuck 1068 00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,800 people got to too many models and it's just getting out of 1069 00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,200 hand. But they didn't care. 1070 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:35,560 It's just like just sell more models. 1071 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,680 Just sell more models. That was the creative, you know, 1072 00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:41,480 genius behind corporate GW back in those days and still is today 1073 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:46,800 really, let's be honest. But D Bag came about from 1074 00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,600 playing 2nd Ed at the highest level. 1075 00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,800 So one of my good friends, Dazzler, he actually won Moab. 1076 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,480 No, he won Cancon. So Cancon in Australia is, is 1077 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,280 the adept account of America. It's the biggest thing that we 1078 00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:04,840 have. And in 1995 he won it with 1079 00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,280 Harlequins. And this is a tournament over 1080 00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:11,480 nearly 100 players. He was dropping blind grenades 1081 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,160 on people. He was creating blind screens, 1082 00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:19,000 flipping over single solitaire, vortexing people, just totaling 1083 00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:25,040 armies individually. And awesome for Daria or so 1084 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:27,840 awesome for Dazzler. Not so awesome for anyone 1085 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,760 playing against him, Not so awesome for pretty much anybody 1086 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,920 who wasn't using those sort of armies. 1087 00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,800 Like there's only like, by the time we got to the pinnacle of 1088 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,120 second edition, there was only a three or four tournament armies 1089 00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,520 you could play that were actually any good that could do 1090 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,920 any damage. Everyone else sucked. 1091 00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,400 Like Space Marines as a whole sucked. 1092 00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:51,160 Their armour safe wasn't good enough, they died in chaff. 1093 00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,280 Like you have to be very creative with Space Marines to 1094 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,240 actually be able to make them stand up to the top. 1095 00:54:57,240 --> 00:54:59,840 Eldar players to the top tier players to the top. 1096 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,800 Well, the other big armies that were really good at the time, 1097 00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:04,920 Chaos was really good at the time. 1098 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,080 And then if the tournament organizers allowed special 1099 00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,720 characters, which will kind of outlawed and banned 90% of the 1100 00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:15,960 time, it just blew the games wide open because there's 1101 00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,520 certain characters that were just too far over the top. 1102 00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:22,320 And if you put no restrictions on it, you know, And this comes 1103 00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:27,680 back to a big problem in when I discussed these things, because 1104 00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:29,920 it gets lost in translation a lot in Facebook. 1105 00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:35,920 When I read things that I say that I see the places where I 1106 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,360 come from and how much I've actually played this game and 1107 00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:43,880 how I the details of where D bag comes from and seeing the 1108 00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:47,680 dejection and the, the look of loss on somebody's face as a 1109 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:54,840 solitaire runs through an entire army because they do or, or a 1110 00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:59,800 Banshee X arc with, with a Banshee X arc with power fist 1111 00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:03,160 and something else with some swooping hawk wings. 1112 00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,600 Just ransack your space Marine Lord. 1113 00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,400 You spend 15 hours painting. He just gets totaled in five 1114 00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:10,920 seconds. You know what I mean? 1115 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,400 Like these are the sort of things that awesome if you're 1116 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,000 into that, if that's what you're wanting to do, if you want to go 1117 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,040 down the the the hedonistic levels of just play it like it 1118 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,120 was meant to. They didn't even know what they 1119 00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,160 meant to play it as. They had no fucking idea. 1120 00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:27,320 They were just trying to sell miniatures for fuck's sake. 1121 00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,680 All right, so don't stand on this pedestal saying, Oh, they 1122 00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,120 root these rules because that's what they were trying to. 1123 00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:35,880 They didn't know what the fuck they were doing. 1124 00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:37,560 They didn't want the map ward books. 1125 00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:39,320 They had no fucking idea what they were doing. 1126 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,960 They were just selling miniatures and each each book 1127 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:45,240 was more powerful than the last. It's it is what it is. 1128 00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:48,560 Like I don't want a historical game where it's everyone sort of 1129 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,160 kind of balanced and even like I actually do appreciate power 1130 00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:53,880 creep. I find it very interesting and 1131 00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:56,040 fun dynamic of these sort of games. 1132 00:56:57,240 --> 00:57:01,320 Where the D bad stuff comes into is it started slowly. 1133 00:57:01,320 --> 00:57:04,280 So it starts off with even when you read the Battle Bible, it'll 1134 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:09,560 start off with a virus strategy, the virus bomb strategy card. 1135 00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,520 And when you read the when you read the Battle Bible, it'll 1136 00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:16,840 actually it'll say no, this strategy has been discontinued 1137 00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:18,240 and we don't recommend you use it. 1138 00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,840 Yeah, yeah, don't fucking use it. 1139 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:22,800 All right, so that's the first part of D Bag. 1140 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:27,480 It's like some things don't work, like they're just, you 1141 00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:28,920 know, some things are just too powerful. 1142 00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,960 Then we sort of started going. All right, so if we're not using 1143 00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:33,880 the other thing, there's two strategy cards we don't ever 1144 00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:37,880 use, which is the virus and the vortex. 1145 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:39,760 I think it's. Which one is it? 1146 00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,360 There's virus outbreak. That's definitely a band 1147 00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:46,400 strategy card. Another one I don't know. 1148 00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,280 The other one was there's this two, there's two, I've always 1149 00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:57,880 been, it'll come to me. So it starts off with that. 1150 00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,240 So you just take out those things. 1151 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,680 Then you start looking at the power imbalance of certain 1152 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,440 heroes because Second Aid becomes a hero based game very 1153 00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,440 quickly. Is my hero enough to take out 1154 00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:13,120 the other heroes? Can I get my hero across the 1155 00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,080 board quick enough to take out the other heroes? 1156 00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:17,200 Then you have the problem with vortex grenades. 1157 00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,120 All right, so vortex grenades is an instant death unless you've 1158 00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:25,520 got a vortex detonator. Then you're talking about are 1159 00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,960 you having hidden lists? Because for a Vortex detonator 1160 00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,600 to work, you have to have a hidden list because otherwise 1161 00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:34,440 there's no point in doing it. So in tournament settings, 1162 00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:36,480 majority of the time it's not hidden list. 1163 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,800 You're actually explaining people what you've got in your 1164 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,800 armies before you play. So we sort of go, well, we'll 1165 00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,440 take out Vortex grenades, we'll take out this, we'll take out 1166 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:48,160 that. Anyway, so during a lot of this 1167 00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:56,040 process, me personally running so many demo games of 40K and 1168 00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,400 then stage demo games in Games Workshop. 1169 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:03,040 So a stage demo game is so you've run a kid through 15 1170 00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,520 basic games of the box set. All right, the code he's got in 1171 00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,360 his back there. Like, you know, you got your, 1172 00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:12,600 you got your, what is it 2020 Gretchen or 40 Gretchen, 2 1173 00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,920 squads of 20. You got your 20 orcs. 1174 00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:18,320 And then you got your dreadnought in a paper card. 1175 00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:20,400 And then you've got your 10 marines. 1176 00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,920 And you know, then you step it up and you go, OK, so you can 1177 00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,040 have another squad of marines now you can have another little 1178 00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:29,440 bit of this and you get kind of like what combat control, combat 1179 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,800 patrol is now for 40 K 10th edition. 1180 00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,400 So in the shops we were introducing this to the kids. 1181 00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:39,480 So in the shops that I used to run, I would try to introduce 1182 00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,160 the kid into 40K through the basic game. 1183 00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,240 Then I'd step it up with a little bit more than I'd step it 1184 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:48,120 up and just keep building them into more and more. 1185 00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,520 So then they'd go off and they'd buy a box set of marines and 1186 00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:53,680 they'd buy themselves a hero or they'd buy themselves a 1187 00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:55,640 chaplain. And then we'll go, OK, cool. 1188 00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,120 So we'll just have a hero based game with our generals because 1189 00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,200 when you start adding generals sheet gets a bit weird. 1190 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,640 And then we'd say, OK, so I'm going to teach you how to make 1191 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,280 an army list. So here's a 500 point army list. 1192 01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,320 He's a, you know, the the origins of a slow grow started 1193 01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:09,880 here. This is where we started doing 1194 01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:13,040 this is a slow grow of an army. And then I'd take a kid aside 1195 01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,560 and go, here's your 2000 point army, but we'll break it down to 1196 01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:18,720 500 chunks, paint it up, bring it in store and then we'll play 1197 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,440 it. It was at this stage that I 1198 01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:25,760 noticed that around the thousand and we would break certain rules 1199 01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:28,080 in this. So to make your 500, to make 1200 01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,400 your thousand points work, you wouldn't be taking, you know, 1201 01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,640 vortex grenades because they're fifty points like they're just 1202 01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,040 too expensive. You wouldn't be taking a general 1203 01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:37,440 character. You only be taking a hero 1204 01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,480 character at level two. You wouldn't be taking a psycho 1205 01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,680 necessarily because you don't want to introduce psyching just 1206 01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,000 yet because you didn't want to sell them a dark Millennium box 1207 01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:46,680 yet because they've only got the basic box set. 1208 01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:51,720 So things like this sort of started happening and then when 1209 01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,800 I came back to 2nd edition a lot later and I met up with Daz and 1210 01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,400 we started working these sort of things out, we found that the 1211 01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,400 sweet spot was about 1500 points. 1212 01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,760 It was hero level characters, which is A2 wounded character 1213 01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,480 that. And then we went right. 1214 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:10,320 So then we played that without any war gear. 1215 01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:12,520 What does that look like? So we'd have a few games without 1216 01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,760 any war gear, any extra stuff. And funny things we noticed is 1217 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,800 that troops became really powerful again. 1218 01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:22,480 A squad of marines was a scary thing. 1219 01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:26,600 A squad of aspect warriors or even guardians with a with a 1220 01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:31,000 weapon platform was actually a thing now because it could take 1221 01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:34,920 out parts of the battlefield and went, oh shit, second aid 1222 01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,560 actually has a lot of strategy, strategic depth to it. 1223 01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:41,320 Then we go, OK, so if at 1500 points you can actually get 1224 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:43,160 quite a lot of troops and things like that. 1225 01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,560 So what we did was we go, all right, so using the same 1226 01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:52,520 structure that is normally built into second 840K army list 1227 01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:57,160 building, which is what 50% characters, 50% basic troops, 1228 01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:02,320 25% what is it supports heavy support. 1229 01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,520 We went, OK, so make it 25% for heroes because we want to limit 1230 01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,240 the amount of heroes on the battlefield because we want to 1231 01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:12,360 make it focused on troops, 50% of troops and then 25% on 1232 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,680 support. And then we said, all right, how 1233 01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:18,960 about we do this? We go, you get 50 points of 1234 01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:24,840 upgrades across the entire army, So whether that's vehicle cards, 1235 01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,800 whether that's your Wargie cards, whether it's your X arc 1236 01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,400 powers, whether it's your bio Morse for Tyranids and things 1237 01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,960 like that, you only get 50 points worth as a total rule. 1238 01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:38,360 So you're keeping the game really small, but you're also 1239 01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:39,800 keeping the game really tactical. 1240 01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,280 Now, once you do all this and you've, you know, we've created 1241 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,080 that and we've got that and I've sent this off and, you know, 1242 01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:51,400 people playing this out, cycles become a thing. 1243 01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:53,840 It's like, all right, so you have to deal with cycles. 1244 01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,920 So cycles can only be level 2, all right. 1245 01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:58,720 Now, if you go into Dark Millennium, there's actually a 1246 01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,400 way to work all this out. It's like 25 points per level, 1247 01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:03,400 all right. And even in some of the army 1248 01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,880 builders that actually have this actually built into it. 1249 01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,600 And so when you buy your Marine hero, you can just upgrade them 1250 01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:12,120 25 points per level where the only armies that break these 1251 01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:15,800 kind of rules and like Tyranids, Jean Stiller, Colts, they're 1252 01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:19,040 about it really like everyone else can work within these rules 1253 01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:21,520 quite easily. Where I get a lot of pushback 1254 01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:27,640 from 4K second head players is through the rules say that you 1255 01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:30,360 have to have a general in your army and a hero is not a 1256 01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:34,600 general. Why? 1257 01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:39,720 Why Yeah, fucking this game again. 1258 01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:41,880 Their rules were shit when they wrote them. 1259 01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,520 It's like they wrote it for when they wrote it and it didn't 1260 01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,960 equate until you've got to like 10 army books and it's it's gone 1261 01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:53,720 crazy anyway, if you want to do that, go the other way. 1262 01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:54,680 This is how we're going to play it. 1263 01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:56,360 We're going to play it tight. We're going to play it skirmish, 1264 01:03:56,360 --> 01:04:00,880 we're going to play it good. Then we've got once you've got 1265 01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:04,280 all this out, we go, all right, WYSIWYG, say everything you say. 1266 01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,640 Everything you want on the model has to be on the model type 1267 01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:10,480 scenario, painted armies. All right, that's all good. 1268 01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,520 I think with Tyranny we went that they have no biomorphs at 1269 01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:19,200 all because they just go well out of the proportion of things. 1270 01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:23,520 They have to have a hive Tyrant, which does boost you out of the 1271 01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,120 hero level sort of character because they don't actually have 1272 01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:27,920 a hero character to run in their army. 1273 01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,320 But if you take out the biomorphs, you take out their 1274 01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,920 psychic levels or you can give them two psychic levels at 50 1275 01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,640 points. All right, they're actually 1276 01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,200 quite killable. It's a crack miss. 1277 01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,520 I was going to take him out. All right, you're devastated 1278 01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,320 squad that you spent 15 hours painting 20. 1279 01:04:43,640 --> 01:04:46,080 You know some people have spent 30 hours painting it might 1280 01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,640 actually do some damage without dying in the first instance. 1281 01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:56,120 Now, on top of all that you've got once we did all this, we 1282 01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:58,640 have played a few games of that and we we mucked around with it 1283 01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:01,680 a bit. And this is where D Bad came 1284 01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:03,920 into play. So with the missions and the way 1285 01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:07,760 the missions work, you can actually gain even a system 1286 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,800 that's taken everything out. You can still game it. 1287 01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:12,080 You can still be a gaming fucker. 1288 01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,840 You can take Tyranny and then you can make all your you can 1289 01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,040 take Tyranny and Eldar. They're the two ones that come 1290 01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:20,160 to my head. Oh, and guard the three, three 1291 01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:23,760 armies that can really gain this system is that you can take 1292 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,560 units and make sure they don't go over the threshold for 1293 01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:30,520 mission objectives. So you can go MSU, you can go 1294 01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:34,920 multiple small units, and you can create an army that gives 1295 01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:40,000 your opponent no victory points. Don't be a Dick. 1296 01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:48,160 And that's it's that simple. It's like when we ran our first 1297 01:05:48,160 --> 01:05:52,480 D bad event and I put this out, I said just don't be a Dick, 1298 01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,600 Like don't. And I I try to keep telling 1299 01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,840 people like just play an army that you'd want to play against 1300 01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:01,000 and you'll be fine. And then you still have people. 1301 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,280 And I said, look all right for the first first one. 1302 01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,680 We're going to make sure you submit the list and we'll read 1303 01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:07,040 them. And just to make sure 1304 01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,080 everyone's, you know, on the same, you know, you don't want 1305 01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:11,560 to be turning up the knife with the gunfight side of scenario 1306 01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:15,720 where you've created this most beautiful fluffy tactical marine 1307 01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:17,840 army, like the Blood Angel army that you had the other day, 1308 01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:19,280 where it's just got a tactical squad. 1309 01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:22,120 It's got a rhino, it's got a beast, it's got one of 1310 01:06:22,120 --> 01:06:23,760 everything. It looks beautiful, but 1311 01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:26,000 synergetically wise, it's probably the worst army you 1312 01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,240 could possibly make. But you don't want that up 1313 01:06:29,240 --> 01:06:33,200 against a Tyranid army that is just got nothing but homogans 1314 01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,600 and it's going to charge you in the second turn and wipe you 1315 01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:37,560 out. That's just not fun for anyone. 1316 01:06:38,120 --> 01:06:41,440 Even this, even when we did the first tournament, someone 1317 01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:43,880 submitted. This guy knows who he is and if 1318 01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,840 you're listening to this, you know who you are and you got 1319 01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:50,880 called out. He's one of my oldest friends 1320 01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,320 and he's dude, what the fuck are you doing? 1321 01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,920 He submits a period list that's kept all these units under 100 1322 01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:02,000 points. I'm like I said, no, you're 1323 01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,320 going to have to group all your little termagate and your 1324 01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:08,040 homicate units. You got like 6 of each, group 1325 01:07:08,040 --> 01:07:10,320 them together into 3 units of three and he goes no, I don't 1326 01:07:10,320 --> 01:07:12,640 want to play it now. You should. 1327 01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:14,400 You should have a stamp. You just got a stampless. 1328 01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:17,120 Don't be AD bat. That's it, bang. 1329 01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:20,440 And then we had another guy who wanted to run a what did he want 1330 01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,040 to do? He wanted to run a Imperial 1331 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,040 Guard army just full of fucking basilisks. 1332 01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:29,160 I'm like, no one wants to play that dude, what are you fucking 1333 01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,280 doing? All right, Don't be a fucking 1334 01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:33,360 dead. And that's how it all came 1335 01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:34,560 about. That's where don't be a Dick 1336 01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:38,880 comes from. It's pulling your head in from 1337 01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,240 being a teenage kid playing on your floor with your mates and 1338 01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:45,960 getting into arguments for 15 hours over throwing grenades 1339 01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:52,000 onto a bridge all right, to being a grown adult playing man 1340 01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,640 dollies on the weekend and enjoying your time while you're 1341 01:07:54,640 --> 01:07:58,320 drinking beer. All right, so that's where D Bag 1342 01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,840 comes from. You got any questions? 1343 01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:07,240 There's, you know, I don't know, I don't know how like, because 1344 01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:10,320 every time I posted this up anywhere, I get so much grief 1345 01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:12,400 from people saying you're not playing the rules properly, 1346 01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:14,960 you're not doing this and you can't, you can't. 1347 01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:19,319 What is it? You can't compass system like 1348 01:08:19,319 --> 01:08:21,479 you've never compass system. You just got to play it as it 1349 01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:23,720 is. That's a very 40K mentality. 1350 01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,680 You have to play the system as it is, and that's normally 1351 01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:29,840 coming from the guy who just got the Army book that is so fucking 1352 01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:31,640 good that it destroys everyone anyway. 1353 01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:33,359 And that's their idea of a good time. 1354 01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,319 And if that's their idea of a good time, open up Pornhub and 1355 01:08:36,319 --> 01:08:38,640 destroy yourself like. Like. 1356 01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:42,279 We don't need that here on the war gaming table. 1357 01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:44,920 I came into a joint interaction. If you're not going to interact 1358 01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:49,200 well with me, you can piss off. All right, so there you go. 1359 01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:51,200 That's D bag. That's wonderful. 1360 01:08:51,200 --> 01:08:52,960 I love it. So we've got Old Wolf and a 1361 01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,640 Fury. I'm glad you could jump into 1362 01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:56,720 here. I'm glad you're here mate, 1363 01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,439 that's great. And Vaughan, that was awesome to 1364 01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:03,600 hear the rant from the Fury. And is there any points limit on 1365 01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:05,160 D bag games I'm going to have missed? 1366 01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:08,640 You, yeah, you can, you can start D bag from as low as 500 1367 01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:10,680 points. That's why it's such a good 1368 01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,600 little system, because you you can start with a hero, you can 1369 01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,640 start with a Sergeant. We used to play in GW with a 1370 01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:19,479 Sergeant. All right, so a Sergeant of 1371 01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:24,080 Marines or a hero, like whatever your champion is or champion 1372 01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:26,120 level character, they can run your army. 1373 01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:30,279 If you want to get fluff with me, boys, a Marine Sergeant is 1374 01:09:30,279 --> 01:09:34,080 100 years old and been in battle for since his entire inception. 1375 01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:36,240 God damn. He can run a battlefield by 1376 01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:38,800 himself if he wanted to. What do you think they get their 1377 01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:40,640 bloody field Marshalls from from sergeants. 1378 01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:41,760 You have to go through all the ranks. 1379 01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:43,240 So come on. Yeah, So you can run it from a 1380 01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,720 champion level. So 500 points champion level, 1381 01:09:46,080 --> 01:09:49,000 which you know for Marines might be, and then you, Oh no, you're 1382 01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:50,319 going to have to break some rules. 1383 01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,000 You take a 5 man squad of marines instead of A10 man squad 1384 01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,040 of marines. OK, fucking mind blowing. 1385 01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:03,000 All right, Just be flexible. But the beauty of 2nd, and This 1386 01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:06,560 is why I do love it when you get Dark Millennium and you go 1387 01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,400 through it, when you go through the Battle Bible, there is 1388 01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:14,000 points for everything because it comes from Rogue Trader and they 1389 01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:16,440 haven't really ever changed the point system from Rogue Trader 1390 01:10:16,440 --> 01:10:19,760 to 2nd Ed. All the points are built in so 1391 01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:23,120 you can build out things very easily and very successfully. 1392 01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:27,360 Like it's not that hard. All right, nice. 1393 01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:29,560 Yeah. Is there an official document 1394 01:10:29,560 --> 01:10:32,080 where people can actually go and see like to root for the D bad 1395 01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:34,400 rules at all? Yeah, yeah, I sent, I sent one 1396 01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:35,400 to you. I did. 1397 01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:38,200 I'm hopeless at this mate, sorry. 1398 01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,520 Yeah, it does get one too. I did change it to seek and 1399 01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:43,880 destroy, but after talking about this we just caught debug. 1400 01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,640 From now on I think it's found sounds better, but now you 1401 01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,080 understand my rant so. OK, that's why I didn't. 1402 01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:51,000 I didn't realize what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1403 01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:55,480 So that's the seek and destroy. Now, more astute players out 1404 01:10:55,480 --> 01:10:58,600 there will find a lot of holes and bits and bobs in that that 1405 01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:00,080 they were probably trying to exploit. 1406 01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:02,280 So I'll just refer back to Don't be a Dick. 1407 01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:07,760 It's an essence. It's an essence, it's a feeling. 1408 01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,720 It's an emotion. It's, it's like when you're 1409 01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:14,280 playing historicals, you just sort of, you got to feel it out 1410 01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:16,800 guys. Like it's just, you know, it's a 1411 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:21,600 way of being, you know, you want to, you want to play a game 1412 01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:24,400 with, you're going to spend 2 hours with somebody, another 1413 01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,480 grown man. Normally 99.9% of the time it's 1414 01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:29,720 going to be a man. You want to enjoy that 1415 01:11:29,720 --> 01:11:32,160 experience, and that's through the immersion of the hobby where 1416 01:11:32,160 --> 01:11:33,840 you've both got nicely painted armies. 1417 01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:36,840 You got your goblin green bases or that heretic that has his own 1418 01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:40,160 painted bases. You got great terrain. 1419 01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:41,840 You're all playing the same rules. 1420 01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:45,400 You're playing a small, tight skirmish game where 11 foul shot 1421 01:11:45,400 --> 01:11:47,640 of a rocket launcher might take out your one leader. 1422 01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:53,520 All right, And you want to make the game fun and come down to 1423 01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,800 the last minute. So those mission cards that come 1424 01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:59,320 with the game and come with Dark Millennium that are built into 1425 01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,680 the Battle Bible, they're awesome if you're playing it 1426 01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:04,840 with the right spirit. Actually, that can actually 1427 01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:06,600 work. They I, I still use them in 1428 01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:09,080 heresy. I still use them in modern 40K. 1429 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:11,600 Like they're actually really well thought out and planned out 1430 01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:16,000 missions. So go for it, have fun with it 1431 01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:18,000 like. Can I make one request? 1432 01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,360 Can I make one request? Please don't change the name 1433 01:12:21,360 --> 01:12:24,040 mate, don't change it. Oh you cool. 1434 01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:25,080 D Bag. D Bag's. 1435 01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,280 Fine watch mate. The Seeking with Troy hasn't got 1436 01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:28,640 the same flavor, hasn't got the same. 1437 01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:30,440 Hasn't got the flavor. You want the flavor. 1438 01:12:30,440 --> 01:12:33,240 You want the flavor. That's why I think I think 1439 01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:35,160 that's beautiful. I think that's just, you know, 1440 01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:37,360 encaptures encapsulates everything you want to say. 1441 01:12:38,040 --> 01:12:41,080 So tweak the rules to be a dig free zone. 1442 01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:42,440 Yeah, we definitely. Want to see that? 1443 01:12:42,440 --> 01:12:46,400 Pretty much it's you're not even tweaking the rules to be honest. 1444 01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:50,320 You're just bending, bending army list creation because 1445 01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:52,680 you're not. You're not actually breaking 1446 01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:55,080 anything. Breaking it would be saying that 1447 01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:58,400 I can now throw a grenade 15 times further than my normal 1448 01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,040 strength. You know what I mean? 1449 01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,760 That's breaking the rules. You know, this isn't breaking 1450 01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:04,440 the rules. This is changing army army 1451 01:13:04,440 --> 01:13:07,280 composition. And because you're taking out 1452 01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:11,360 the hero, you've just eliminated 90% of the problems of second 1453 01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:15,520 edition. Because some heroes are just too 1454 01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:17,160 much. Yeah, yeah. 1455 01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:19,720 So yeah, there's no basically there's no special characters 1456 01:13:19,800 --> 01:13:21,040 either. No name characters. 1457 01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:26,280 You can I, I actually allow hero level special characters because 1458 01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:27,520 they're actually a lot of flavor in them. 1459 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:30,320 Yeah, I think so. Some of like, some of like for 1460 01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:35,240 Blood Angels, like Kabulo, awesome little mid tier chaplain 1461 01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,800 dude, freaking awesome miniature. 1462 01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:41,840 Yeah, run that. Like when someone would submit a 1463 01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,360 list to me and it had like it was a Blood Angel on me with a 1464 01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:46,680 Kabulo theme to it. It's like, fuck yeah. 1465 01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:48,120 I want to see that. That's awesome. 1466 01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:52,080 You know, like yeah, hero level characters go or nuts like as 1467 01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:54,800 long as they've got so the definition of a hero level 1468 01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:58,240 character normally under normal circumstances is A2 wounded 1469 01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:01,320 character. Yeah, sorry man. 1470 01:14:01,320 --> 01:14:06,200 SO2 wound character right so. If it's A2 wing wound character 1471 01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:09,320 profile then it should be OK but D bad so As for zombie is fully 1472 01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:12,800 with you about D bad way of life and cyclo is having the right 1473 01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:14,800 attitude and having fun. Alcohol helps. 1474 01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:19,080 It does help, but it actually really effects my gameplay. 1475 01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:22,360 I'm terrible when I'm drinking. Yeah, I'm average when I don't, 1476 01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,800 and I'm terrible when I drink. I don't really care. 1477 01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:28,720 I don't really, I mean, I just play to have fun, but I think I, 1478 01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:31,200 I really appreciate what you've done with D Band. 1479 01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:32,400 I'm I'm going to have to give it a look. 1480 01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:37,600 We kind of have the same kind of thing when I play with the few 1481 01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:40,120 people here that will play second edition with me. 1482 01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:42,400 But it's kind of like a gentleman's agreement. 1483 01:14:42,720 --> 01:14:44,880 Right we. Don't even write it down. 1484 01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,560 We it's just like, OK, we're not taking Vortex grenades, you 1485 01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:50,560 know, we're not taking James R we're not, we're not doing that. 1486 01:14:50,720 --> 01:14:54,840 It's just an unspoken rule because, and I think that's kind 1487 01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:57,920 of a unspoken rule amongst all war games, to be honest with 1488 01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:00,160 you. Like I don't think, you know, 1489 01:15:00,160 --> 01:15:03,160 war gaming is especially when you get into like science 1490 01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:05,280 fiction war gaming and stuff, it's not going to be balanced. 1491 01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,000 I don't care what you do, you know, if it, if it is balanced, 1492 01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,960 it's not going to be very fun or flavorful, you know? 1493 01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:13,200 Exactly. And one of the great things 1494 01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:15,680 about second edition, one of the things I love about it is the 1495 01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:17,600 flavour. It has so much flavour. 1496 01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,760 It's just using and dripping with flavour and narrative and 1497 01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:24,240 it's just fun to play. And it's definitely not the like 1498 01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:27,400 I explained this to everybody up from like, look, this is not 1499 01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,760 this is not like if if you're coming to this like a 1500 01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:33,520 competitive atmosphere, which you can play tournaments, you 1501 01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:35,440 know, whatever, you can definitely do that. 1502 01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:38,040 But this is not the game for you, OK? 1503 01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:41,160 Like this is, you know, you, you need to approach this in the 1504 01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:45,160 right spirit, which I think is the right spirit for all war 1505 01:15:45,160 --> 01:15:47,760 gaming. You just need to approach it for 1506 01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:49,480 fun. And yeah, don't be a Dick, 1507 01:15:49,480 --> 01:15:52,680 right? I remember when we, when I first 1508 01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:56,840 got back into 40K, we, we were pulling out all the stops, 1509 01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:58,800 right? We had vortex aids and like 1510 01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:01,320 special characters and stuff. And it didn't take us but like 1511 01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:05,440 one or two games to be like, all right, we need to like, not do 1512 01:16:05,440 --> 01:16:06,160 that. Anymore so. 1513 01:16:08,800 --> 01:16:10,320 Yeah, we're just going to, we're just going to tell them this 1514 01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:12,240 shit down. Yeah, I, I won't lie, every once 1515 01:16:12,240 --> 01:16:14,480 in a while it's like, all right, let's pull out all the stops 1516 01:16:14,480 --> 01:16:17,200 this time. And that could be fun, dude. 1517 01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:18,960 You know, it could be a lot of fun to like, be like, all right, 1518 01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:21,480 we're doing, we're doing it all. We're doing vortex grenades. 1519 01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,080 We're pulling out special characters, and we're just going 1520 01:16:24,080 --> 01:16:25,440 to lay it down and have a good time. 1521 01:16:26,920 --> 01:16:30,040 And and I said this to my friend Jack the other day, and we were 1522 01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:31,600 playing a game of second edition. 1523 01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:34,560 I was playing my Harlequins and I basically tabled him. 1524 01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:38,040 Yeah, yeah. But you know what? 1525 01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,320 I was just like, I was like, it's a good thing, It's a good 1526 01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:41,720 thing we're friends, that having a good time. 1527 01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:43,200 He's like, yeah, man, this is a blast. 1528 01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:44,400 You know it. It didn't matter. 1529 01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:48,480 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 1530 01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:50,240 But we're just having a good time. 1531 01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:55,240 It's great. Please give me some more. 1532 01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,080 Well, we're just having a good time and that's what it's all 1533 01:17:01,080 --> 01:17:02,760 about. And just what you know, it's 1534 01:17:02,840 --> 01:17:04,760 it's it's definitely and it was designed. 1535 01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:08,720 If you ask Andy Chambers, if you ask RIP Priestly, if you ask all 1536 01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:11,560 those guys, they'll tell you, hey, we designed the game to be 1537 01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,880 fun, you know, in the rules, break the rules, do what you 1538 01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:17,520 want. We do all the time, you know, So 1539 01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:21,800 it I, I, I really, I'm right there with you, Kent, as far as 1540 01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:24,520 like people are like, oh, you can't, you know, the game was 1541 01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:28,600 made to play the no, it's dude, it's wild and wacky and 1542 01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:30,840 unbalanced and it does it, it doesn't. 1543 01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:34,440 Yeah, there is like, no, there's no fucking balance here. 1544 01:17:34,440 --> 01:17:36,680 There's there's a lot of contradictions in the rules. 1545 01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:38,760 There's all kinds of crazy shit going on. 1546 01:17:39,000 --> 01:17:41,160 Just have fun and do what you want, man. 1547 01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,200 That's that's what it's designed to do if you want to get real 1548 01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:48,000 with it, you know. One of the reasons the D bad was 1549 01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:53,000 I did want to hold tournaments. And so I ran, I missed it. 1550 01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:54,720 I, I sort of skipped him. An introduction. 1551 01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:58,400 I set up a, a gaming club here in my hometown Newcastle called 1552 01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:02,920 Newcastle Legions. And in that there's a lot of old 1553 01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:05,800 players that I used to play with in the game's workshop days. 1554 01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:11,080 And so, and then with Daz, who was a very high level second at 1555 01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:14,680 40K player, we wanted to grab some of those people and bring 1556 01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:17,640 him back into the game. But at the same time, he wanted 1557 01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:19,520 to bring that feeling back of D bad. 1558 01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,040 And so I've run, I think I've run three, maybe four of these 1559 01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:25,120 tournaments. I do them every second year 1560 01:18:25,480 --> 01:18:28,840 because you play it too much and you, you know, it is what it is. 1561 01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:31,240 We're all time poor. And I have people coming all 1562 01:18:31,240 --> 01:18:35,200 from everywhere to play this. And then when you actually play 1563 01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:37,240 the games, they go for less than two hours. 1564 01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:42,040 They're so strategically good. I, I, I cannot stress you 1565 01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,960 enough, if both players come in with the right attitude, with 1566 01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:47,280 the right armies. So the armies that I've played 1567 01:18:47,280 --> 01:18:52,360 in D Bad has been my space walls, my chaos marines and my 1568 01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,920 jeans to the cult, my space marines. 1569 01:18:56,960 --> 01:19:00,960 They are typical say give you an idea typical D bad space Marine 1570 01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:03,720 army will have. So there's there's certain 1571 01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:06,640 heroes that will always be a Mustang, right? 1572 01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:09,560 So, for example, in a space Marine army, it'll either be a 1573 01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:12,560 second, a second level librarian because you just need that 1574 01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:15,440 librarian power. It will either that or a hero 1575 01:19:15,440 --> 01:19:18,280 with a jump pack or a chaplain with a jump pack because you 1576 01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:20,760 need to get across the field and just bash something. 1577 01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:25,840 You'll have typically a squad of marines with a rhino so you can 1578 01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:28,440 get them across the field. For a lot of the missions you'll 1579 01:19:28,440 --> 01:19:31,560 have fire support, so you'll either take a tank or you'll 1580 01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:34,320 take a land speeder. I've always preferred land 1581 01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:37,080 speeders over everything else because you've got a really good 1582 01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:40,440 fire base that can move quickly. And I've always preferred a tank 1583 01:19:40,440 --> 01:19:43,200 over a devastated squad because once you get the land speed and 1584 01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:45,680 the tank together, you got yourself a good mix and a 1585 01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:47,640 dreadnought. And this is the sort of army 1586 01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:50,040 that you're looking at. Like it's a very basic sort of 1587 01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:53,320 themed army, but it can do the damage if it's used right. 1588 01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:57,200 And then my Chaos Marines look completely different. 1589 01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:00,880 So I'd have a second level sorcerer, of course, who's 1590 01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:03,120 summoning. I paid for demonets to bring up 1591 01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:05,320 demonets. I've got a dreadnought coming 1592 01:20:05,320 --> 01:20:08,040 through the middle. I've got noise marines that are 1593 01:20:08,040 --> 01:20:10,200 just, you know, playing down some smack down. 1594 01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:13,400 I've got a Rhino in there, and if anyone's ever seen my Rhino, 1595 01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:16,280 that's got the Bluetooth speaker built into it so I can play 1596 01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:17,760 death metal as I roll it through. 1597 01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:22,120 All right, So you're just going to have, you know, a bit of fun 1598 01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:25,640 with it. And then the army, yeah, I did 1599 01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:26,920 the best. And The funny thing with that 1600 01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:32,360 Chaos Marine army is I played. He'll come to me. 1601 01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:36,320 I played this guy's elder army, and for the first three turns, I 1602 01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:39,480 was just rolling him. I was just taking over 1603 01:20:39,480 --> 01:20:41,480 everything. Everything was going great. 1604 01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:44,120 And then the battery, my Bluetooth died, and then the 1605 01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:49,760 elder just destroyed me. So the entire time of just 1606 01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:53,760 popping this music out going yeah, come on, he's just a nerd, 1607 01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,000 and then burn. Oh shit, kill the. 1608 01:20:58,280 --> 01:20:59,560 Music. Why don't you kill the music? 1609 01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:05,560 Steve Quinn, That's Queenie Queenie's army the next the next 1610 01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:11,280 the next year I took Jean, still a cult and we he had his Ork 1611 01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:12,640 army. He's got a beautiful second at 1612 01:21:12,640 --> 01:21:16,840 Ork army and we had one of the most crazy games of just Orks 1613 01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:20,200 just pumping me with a long range shooting and me trying to 1614 01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:22,880 do the biggest outflank with Jean Seals you've ever seen, 1615 01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:25,600 going up over buildings, coming around, trying to get into 1616 01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:28,200 within the four turn sort of limit that you have for the 1617 01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:33,400 missions. So I think going back through my 1618 01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,640 head like the people who won the tournaments. 1619 01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,160 So when you submit, so it comes down to also how you're doing 1620 01:21:40,160 --> 01:21:42,520 it. I think we actually had a a 1621 01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:47,320 rating system as well. So you get points for your fully 1622 01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:51,320 painted army and you get points for the composition of your army 1623 01:21:51,680 --> 01:21:53,760 and those points would add to your battle total. 1624 01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:56,640 So every game you'd add that to your battle total. 1625 01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:00,400 So if you took a really soft army, you'd get full points, 1626 01:22:00,600 --> 01:22:02,720 full comp points, and then that would add to your total if you 1627 01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:05,080 took a mid tier. So to give you an example, my 1628 01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:07,200 genius of the cult would definitely be a mid tier to a 1629 01:22:07,200 --> 01:22:09,880 high tier sort of army. Just the way I built it, because 1630 01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:12,040 I was being a bit of a cheesy cunt and I wanted to actually be 1631 01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:17,040 annoying. I did take you've always got to 1632 01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:19,720 take soft options, right? I didn't take 40 gene stills, 1633 01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:21,040 for example. I took 10. 1634 01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:26,000 All right, you know what I mean? So that would have got comped a 1635 01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:28,400 bit harder. So it would have made it only 1636 01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:32,520 got 2 out of five points where someone like gives Queenie's 1637 01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:34,760 orcs would have got full five because it was the most 1638 01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:37,320 beautiful one of every clan sort of army that had a bit of 1639 01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:39,800 everything going on in it and it was really awesome. 1640 01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:44,120 So you do that as well and then you have like this one guy took 1641 01:22:44,160 --> 01:22:47,240 a guard army and you know, you have commissar last stands like 1642 01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:50,920 standing on top of a bloody hill just beating things off and he's 1643 01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,000 only got a sword and a lad's pistol, You know what I mean? 1644 01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:55,520 Like he's got nothing else, but he's still surviving and he's, 1645 01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:58,440 you know, doing what he's got to do to get the job done and 1646 01:22:58,440 --> 01:23:01,640 rallying the troops. And you get those hidden gem 1647 01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:05,600 moments that we all love talking about in these games all the 1648 01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:09,520 time because there's nothing super duper happening that's 1649 01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:12,320 outrageous. To give you an idea, like with 1650 01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:17,640 the so I'm ranting a bit, I never knew how good grenades 1651 01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:22,800 were for the entire lifespan of second edition until I played 1652 01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:27,920 Daz's Harlequins who did the full blinds the you know, the 1653 01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:30,760 blind blanket. So for those who don't know, all 1654 01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:33,240 Harlequins get blind grenades. Blind grenades, you can't see 1655 01:23:33,240 --> 01:23:35,600 through them. And what they would do is they 1656 01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:39,560 throw out to get two or three troops of Harlequins is what, 1657 01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:42,600 five guys in a troop, 3 to 5, three to seven in a troop or 1658 01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:47,440 something ridiculous like that. It's minimal 10, Minimal 10, 1659 01:23:47,440 --> 01:23:48,160 isn't it? Yeah. 1660 01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:51,400 It's minimal, 10 per troop, yeah, but I don't think. 1661 01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:55,120 Yeah. So then you you look at 10 blind 1662 01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:58,400 grenades that are just, it's like a massive line of no see 1663 01:23:58,400 --> 01:23:59,400 through. But then you move your 1664 01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,800 Harlequins into the middle of them and then you charge out the 1665 01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:05,520 next turn, right? That tactic had been destroying 1666 01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:08,000 me for years until I actually read the rules. 1667 01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:09,760 It's a funny thing when you read rules. 1668 01:24:10,160 --> 01:24:14,280 So I just roll up my 10 tactical marines who are about to get 1669 01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:17,840 murdered by the troop of Harlequins and just threw 10 1670 01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:20,160 frag grenades into the blind spot. 1671 01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:23,600 Oh. Yeah, shit happens. 1672 01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:27,080 You can frag grenades actually. Yes you can actually. 1673 01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:29,520 OK. I think, I think this came up 1674 01:24:29,520 --> 01:24:32,000 with Paul as well, like picking a point on the on the spot, on 1675 01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:33,520 the ground and throwing something at it. 1676 01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:36,000 Yeah, you don't have to have line of sight. 1677 01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:38,320 It's just random. It just scatters. 1678 01:24:38,320 --> 01:24:41,640 It just scatters automatically. The thing is, it's a 2 inch frag 1679 01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:43,600 template. Harlequins only have a toughness 1680 01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:46,560 of 3A, Fragrant is only toughness 3. 1681 01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:49,680 So I've got 10 frag grenades going through this entire trip 1682 01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:51,520 that's been clumped up ready to charge me. 1683 01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:55,880 I take out 70% of them. I'm like, where's this been all 1684 01:24:55,880 --> 01:24:57,520 my life? This is the greatest thing I've 1685 01:24:57,520 --> 01:24:59,160 ever done are. You being a Dick. 1686 01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:03,640 No, I wasn't being the Dick when a Pelican player was being the 1687 01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:05,480 Dick. I was just fighting a way 1688 01:25:05,480 --> 01:25:08,320 around. That's a joyous second edition. 1689 01:25:08,320 --> 01:25:10,200 Like there's, there's things that happened that, you know, 1690 01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:12,720 I've been playing this thing for so long that I didn't even think 1691 01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:13,960 that was a thing that I could do. 1692 01:25:13,960 --> 01:25:17,080 And then you blind it and you're like, Oh my God, my nick was 1693 01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:19,440 blowing. It's a game that keeps on 1694 01:25:19,440 --> 01:25:21,560 giving. Your your opponent Cody better 1695 01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:25,440 not hear this mate, because he's got the secret I. 1696 01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:29,280 Mean in defense of the Harlequins, because I am a 1697 01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:31,200 Harlequin. Player, you got no defense for 1698 01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:35,320 that. Yeah, yeah, they they are. 1699 01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:39,400 You have. So you, you, they are squishy. 1700 01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:40,560 You have to know what. You're doing? 1701 01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:41,600 Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. 1702 01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:42,840 You have to know what you're doing with them. 1703 01:25:43,040 --> 01:25:45,360 And I discovered the blind grenade thing. 1704 01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:47,680 Like it took me a few games to discover that. 1705 01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:51,080 I was like, oh, this is the way they survive. 1706 01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:54,040 Yeah, yeah. And but I don't go I I do use 1707 01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:55,960 them but I don't go crazy with it like. 1708 01:25:56,680 --> 01:25:59,440 Under D badly Harlequins are not too bad because the biggest 1709 01:25:59,440 --> 01:26:01,800 character they can get is a Harlequin troop commander like a 1710 01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:04,520 so that's the biggest guy they can get. 1711 01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:06,840 And I think they can get a psycho level 2 as well. 1712 01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:10,680 A warlock I think it is. And they're not too bad. 1713 01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:14,400 Like they're definitely squishy. They they're tactically still 1714 01:26:14,400 --> 01:26:17,840 pretty cool, but you they do find themselves, yeah, there's 1715 01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:19,760 no player has a fan still for Eldar. 1716 01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:21,480 Not there's not. They're just they're ridiculous. 1717 01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:25,560 But to give you an idea, like it comes down to the player. 1718 01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:27,840 So in one of those D bad tournaments, I played an Eldar 1719 01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:31,240 guy who had all the tricks. I think he he scored a very low 1720 01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:34,320 sort of score for his army composition, but he didn't know 1721 01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:35,480 how to use warp spiders properly. 1722 01:26:36,200 --> 01:26:39,080 Right. And warp spiders take 10 games 1723 01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:42,200 before you get the hang of them. They're a horrible unit. 1724 01:26:42,200 --> 01:26:45,120 Like on the on the hands of a very good player, but somebody 1725 01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:46,880 who doesn't really know how to use them properly. 1726 01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:49,160 Like they just die like anything else. 1727 01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:52,000 I think he left them out in the wrong spot and I just rolled up 1728 01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:56,720 my rhino full of cultists that had flamers and just flamed them 1729 01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:59,080 all. They all died, you know what I 1730 01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:02,360 mean? So yeah, Elda under D bad Eldar 1731 01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:03,880 actually a really fun army to play. 1732 01:27:03,880 --> 01:27:07,960 Very very, very tactical, very very unique because you can, you 1733 01:27:07,960 --> 01:27:12,240 know, 1 elder army is the same. I've seen people run them as 1734 01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:14,240 just nothing but guardians. I've seen people run them as 1735 01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:17,600 pirates, I've seen them run as just one aspect cult. 1736 01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:20,160 I've seen them, you know all the theme stuff you could possibly 1737 01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:23,680 think of you can do. Because your hero in that level 1738 01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:28,320 would be a an ex arc. He would be the general of your 1739 01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:30,000 army would be an ex arc or a warlock. 1740 01:27:31,440 --> 01:27:34,440 Now, on a debate, you can have more than two characters or more 1741 01:27:34,440 --> 01:27:36,720 than one character, but one of them has to be a general for the 1742 01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:41,840 rules for the missions. Cool. 1743 01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:42,640 All right. OK. 1744 01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,240 I think we've covered everything about the D bad system, so 1745 01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:50,280 people who are interested, I'll have to put a link somewhere for 1746 01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:52,800 you guys to access that D bad rule system. 1747 01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:54,640 Is it on a website or anything like that at all mate? 1748 01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:57,840 Is it on the? No, I'll just, I'll, I'll send 1749 01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:01,120 you the document and then you can post it up on the Crown of 1750 01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:03,680 Command and people can just download it from there and let's 1751 01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:06,800 just drive some traffic to you. Yeah, I'll post this video up on 1752 01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:09,440 the why I'm a second edition Facebook group. 1753 01:28:10,480 --> 01:28:12,240 Yeah, hopefully I can upload it in. 1754 01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:15,440 I can upload that file if it's not in there already into their 1755 01:28:15,440 --> 01:28:17,040 file section. And that way you could easy. 1756 01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:20,400 It's an easy way to access. That I have promoted on there 1757 01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:22,440 before but I cop so much backlash from it. 1758 01:28:22,440 --> 01:28:25,040 I just gave up on it. But I think through 1759 01:28:25,640 --> 01:28:29,120 communication and see my rants of where it comes because it 1760 01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:30,680 has. People have to understand it 1761 01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:33,560 comes from a place of love and experience. 1762 01:28:33,560 --> 01:28:37,720 Of course, like the nuance of Facebook doesn't Like if you 1763 01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:41,320 write into Facebook. I've been playing since like 92. 1764 01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:50,920 Dude, you seem like such a twat. All right, so and I I yeah, I'm 1765 01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:52,600 allowed to compact because I played it heaps. 1766 01:28:52,600 --> 01:28:56,880 All right, shut up. Yeah, OK man, just a moment. 1767 01:28:56,960 --> 01:29:00,000 OK, so just just I'm going to shout out to Stu from sustained 1768 01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,320 fire event. It was held in Brisbane last 1769 01:29:02,320 --> 01:29:04,160 year. Yeah, I was wanting to get up 1770 01:29:04,200 --> 01:29:06,000 there, but I couldn't do it. Yeah. 1771 01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:08,920 So it is still alive and kicking in Australia, which is great to 1772 01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:10,040 see. And I know it's, you know, it's 1773 01:29:10,040 --> 01:29:11,960 played in various parts of the world. 1774 01:29:12,440 --> 01:29:18,600 Even my good friend Jimmy from the old Olives, he's playing it 1775 01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:23,200 in 15 mil. Yeah, yeah, like printed 250 1776 01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:24,400 mil. Yeah, 100%. 1777 01:29:24,440 --> 01:29:27,320 Really cool looks really looks really cute, like the whole like 1778 01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:30,000 the really small battlefields. He even made the little tiny 1779 01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:35,160 little cactus plants. That's great. 1780 01:29:35,160 --> 01:29:38,360 I mean that's you know, you can enjoy second edition in any way 1781 01:29:38,360 --> 01:29:41,640 form that you want to play it. There's lots of resources out 1782 01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:42,920 there. So, you know, don't feel 1783 01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:44,520 restricted or restrained to think that. 1784 01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:46,400 Oh well, it's you know, it's past that point. 1785 01:29:46,400 --> 01:29:49,520 I'll never get back into it. You can get back into it if you 1786 01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:53,600 really want to. So, but look, guys, we've we've 1787 01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:55,680 the streams are almost an hour and a half. 1788 01:29:55,680 --> 01:29:58,120 I've got to feed my boy and take him to his friend's house so he 1789 01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:01,160 can play Nintendo Switch to his heart's heart's desire. 1790 01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:04,400 So I look to like to thank both of you, especially Kent Fury. 1791 01:30:04,440 --> 01:30:07,080 All are from Australia mate to come on to talk all about D bad 1792 01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:11,040 with us and your love of second edition and your your passion 1793 01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:13,800 for it and Cody as well mate. All the way over in Tennessee my 1794 01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:16,320 friend. Yeah, no, it was good meeting 1795 01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:16,960 Kim, by the way. Nice. 1796 01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:20,800 Meeting you too. And lastly. 1797 01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:23,760 When I get when I get to Japan again, I'll make sure we can 1798 01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:27,520 have a battle report of D bad just to give it a bit of flow 1799 01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:29,480 bit. Of feeling and like I said, 1800 01:30:29,480 --> 01:30:32,280 mate, your wife, your wife and kids, if they come, they're more 1801 01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:33,680 than welcome up here. OK, so. 1802 01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:35,200 No, I'm going to bitch them. I'm coming. 1803 01:30:35,200 --> 01:30:40,600 Back all right thanks too much but finally to all the people 1804 01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:43,120 all the great people in our chat here at the moment who's been 1805 01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:49,280 commenting sci-fi Astro zombie Vol Vol sorry, not Vaughan Vol 1806 01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:53,320 old wall fanatics who also we have here. 1807 01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:56,840 I think that was the main group of people that come to say hello 1808 01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,920 stranglers and hobbies stranglers yeah stranglers 1809 01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:03,920 homework last one, but thanks everybody for tuning in to check 1810 01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:07,080 us out live if you're looking at this the the the you know the 1811 01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:09,240 replay of it. Hope you enjoy the conversation 1812 01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:12,680 the guys have brought today about second edition 40K and 1813 01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:15,360 until next guy next. Next time guys, take care of 1814 01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:18,760 yourselves, enjoy your weekend, and we'll catch you again next 1815 01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:19,000 time.