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Joe, it's been long overdue made
this conversation, but I'm 

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really glad that you can make 
the time to come talk to us on 

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the Crown of Commandment. 
Oh, my pleasure, Josh. 

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Thanks for thanks for asking. 
Like most, most gamers, I enjoy 

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talking about games, you know, 
So yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I was 

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happy to happy to come on. 
And and as you know, we're, 

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we're fresh from our our recent 
tournament. 

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So there's still lots of buzz, 
lots of buzz about Warhammer, 

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Josh. 
Yeah, Now that's, that's one of 

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the reasons why I think it's 
just been long overdue because I

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wanted to get you on the podcast
before that anyway. 

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And I know you sent me a very 
nice invitation and and a 

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message through Facebook 
Messenger to say, hey, Josh, if 

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you're if you're thinking about 
coming to New Zealand, then we'd

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like to invite you over, which 
would have been fantastic. 

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I was, I was talking to my wife 
about it because, yeah, I mean, 

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me and my wife would love to 
come to New Zealand. 

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I think it's such a picturesque 
looking, beautiful, pristine, 

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untouched, unspoiled country in 
many respects. 

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And of course, yeah. 
We're quite good. 

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We're quite good to go there 
too. 

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They do, yeah. 
We're quite good at painting, 

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painting it like this. 
I don't think that's that's 

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quite the quite the reality, but
yeah, yeah, no. 

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And you would have been really 
welcome. 

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So. 
So that tournament, Josh was 

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really just and look, I'm sure 
there are people out there who 

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are interested in old GW games 
have come to that exactly the 

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same place. 
You know, I want to play the 

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games, you know, I've dusted off
my old collection or I've like 

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scrounged on eBay, but who am I 
going to play against? 

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And, and about 15 years ago when
I came back to New Zealand from 

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the UK, I've worked briefly for 
GW in the UK and I worked for GW

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in New Zealand. 
So just that, that's sort of by 

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the by really, But I have had 
had those experiences. 

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I came back to New Zealand and 
there were games I'd I'd played 

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in the UK that I really wanted 
to play and, and no one was 

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playing them. 
You know, they hadn't taken off 

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here or they had briefly and 
then and then sort of faded 

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away. 
And I just, it seemed obvious to

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get a tournament going with no 
one. 

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But if you, you know, signal the
date and do the advertising and 

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you're enthusiastic about it, 
you might get people turning up 

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and you demonstrate the game and
you're kind of, yeah, you lean 

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people miniatures and paint some
stuff for them and, and they've 

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got everyone's got there to work
towards. 

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So I've done that with other 
systems, non GW systems for 

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quite a few years. 
And then and then always in the 

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back of my mind, it's it's, 
yeah, I've had this idea of sort

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of going back to my kind of 
first love when it came to war 

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gaming, which is Warhammer 
Fantasy Battle. 

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I can tell you a bit about that 
later, right back to the 80s. 

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So I just thought, you know, 
we'll do do the same thing. 

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It works. 
It does work. 

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It really does work. 
And that's just put a date in 

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the calendar. 
You know, in New Zealand, you 

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tend to have your tournaments as
part of a bigger event with lots

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of people playing lots of 
different games. 

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I don't know how it works 
overseas, but it would have been

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a bit miserable if just the six 
of us had been alone in some big

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dusty halls somewhere. 
And. 

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And we did that. 
And then I just started those 

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conversations, you know, talk to
people about the armies and the 

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cupboards and anyone play 
William Fantasy Battle back in 

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the 90s And. 
And it just went from there. 

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Yeah. 
And, and we got fantastic turn 

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out. 
Well, six of us. 

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I thought that was fantastic. 
And yeah, we had an amazing 

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time. 
Yeah. 

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What are you mate? 
That's wonderful, that's good. 

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They actually got to be realised
and people came along with their

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models and I presume there were 
some people you knew and some 

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people you've never met before. 
Yeah. 

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You know, social media obviously
gives us the opportunity now to,

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I mean, social media is great I 
think for war gamers because it 

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offers the pros but not 
necessarily doesn't have so many

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of the cons. 
So in there you can connect with

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people and you can share images 
and share any sort of, you know,

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you know, media that sort of 
might kind of encourage people 

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or you know, sort of inspire 
them and painting and stuff and 

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better reports and things. 
But you still have to get 

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together to play the game. 
You know, you, you can't kind of

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use it as a substitute for 
gaming unless you're one of 

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those. 
I'm going to be a bit bit 

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critical here. 
One of those incredibly annoying

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people that likes to be involved
in gaming scenes and his wants 

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to comment on everything and 
give advice on everything that 

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never actually plays. 
I've got no time for those 

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people, Josh. 
I actually can't stand them. 

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I find them just like a sort of 
a waste of time. 

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But yeah, so, so we did end up 
having some people local. 

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So some guys I played DND with 
ended up playing and then people

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came from the other islands from
around, from around the island. 

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And yeah, a bunch of us hadn't 
met before. 

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And it was, it was just awesome.
It was just awesome. 

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We had a really good time. 
Played five games over a 

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weekend. 
It was a big event for New 

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Zealand. 
It was about 170 people playing 

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there, a whole bunch of GW 
games. 

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So it would have been in GW 
heaven. 

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It was Kill Team, 40K, Heresy 
competitions. 

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There was the Old World, same 
size as us, which was kind of 

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funny. 
There was a more time 

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tournament, amazing, more time 
tables and and there was us as 

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well. 
And yeah, so we played five 

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games. 
We played the tournament 

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scenario. 
Anyone who might remember the 

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old old battle book gives gives 
a whole bunch of really cool 

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scenarios that I don't recall 
anyone beckon that I actually 

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playing. 
Everyone just played pitch 

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battle over and over a key. 
But there is a tournament 

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scenario on the back and and 
that was tweaked over time and 

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White Dwarf through to the end 
of the 90s and we played there 

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and it worked fantastically 
well. 

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And we got out all the old GW 
terrain and I even punched out 

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some card buildings from the 90s
for the first time and it's just

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awesome. 
That's just awesome. 

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Yeah, good on you mate. 
Now what? 

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What? 
What? 

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What kind of armies were 
comprised over the weekend? 

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What? 
What stuff do people bring? 

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Yeah, so there was some later 
stuff in there, like later 

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miniatures, I mean, and I think 
that's you've just got to be 

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realistic if you want to run an 
old school of in, I guess you 

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could put some sort of ban or 
time limit on. 

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But given how few people are 
going to turn up anyway, I think

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that would be, I think that 
would be really silly because 

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but undeniably an appeal of the 
game to me is nostalgia and I 

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want to play with miniatures 
from the 90s. 

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I do, but I also want to play 
and I just think you'd, it would

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be ridiculous for someone who 
brought along like 8th edition 

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plastics, you know, to to say or
not you can't can't play with 

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them. 
I I wouldn't take that approach 

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at all, even if I wouldn't 
particularly like don't 

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particularly like the looks of 
them. 

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So we had what do we have? 
You're beautifully painted high 

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off army, fantastic Scaven army,
a lot of which was was sort of 

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back to 3rd edition stuff and 
kind of painted in those sort of

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3rd edition pastels. 
They were fantastic, but the guy

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got really unlucky as grace 
here, I think tune into a chaos 

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spawn and two out of the five 
games great. 

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She took pretty hard. 
He took pretty hard. 

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There was an undeed army which 
was just fearsome. 

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So that Vampire Counts book, you
know, I think was was regarded 

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by most people as the premier 
book of the day. 

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And of course it was, you know, 
you've got GW PAC power creep 

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was the last book. 
And so he had the vampire. 

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But an increments the Lord with 
the staff of damnation, the 

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potion of knowledge, which, if 
it works, lets you just recast 

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spells endlessly as you cast 
spells for free unless it runs 

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out. 
And the increments the Lord of 

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course, can cast them, doesn't 
have to roll to recast the 

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necromancy spells. 
So that was great. 

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We had yes. 
So we had hi old scaven, vampire

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counts, undead and orcs and 
goblins, which are always fun to

156
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look at and always fun to play. 
Not always so fun to command. 

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And then we had my own wood 
elves, which, which were in sort

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of a funny choice for me because
I don't really like elves, but 

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00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,920
they were the very first 
miniatures I, the 1st army I've 

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collected when I, when I got my 
first job in 97. 

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So that tells you pretty much, 
yeah. 

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About how old I am, early 40s. 
So yeah, just just, I'd felt 

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like going right back to the 
beginning. 

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They weren't the first GW 
miniatures they ever got or ever

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painted, but they were the first
army I collected. 

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And I, I lost all those 
miniatures years ago, but just 

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started with the help of mostly 
Australians, actually. 

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00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,280
I got, you know, tons of that, 
those funny old monopo's arches 

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when we should all, we'd all 
know them. 

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You know, the ones that the team
tour box monopos of the late 

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00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,280
90s, mid 90s I should say 
actually because they they went,

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00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:06,680
you know, they started to get 
into multi part, didn't they? 

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00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,800
By the late 90s of the Empire 
seat first of all, and those 

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00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:15,000
really ugly dwarves those 
hunchbacked multi part towards. 

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00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,200
So yeah, what else? 
Me and we all played each other 

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so 5 rounds and it was great. 
So I got to play 55 different 

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opponents and one weekend and it
was so cool. 

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00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,960
It was so cool. 
That's wonderful mate, that's 

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00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,040
good. 
So a really nice array, no 

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00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,680
double up, no double UPS on 
armies. 

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00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:38,680
That's really cool to see. 
And you know, 6 willing 

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00:09:38,680 --> 00:09:41,560
opponents, 6 willing opponents. 
Like I said, you got to play 

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five game, which is huge. 
So I hope we can do that here, 

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00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,840
replicate that in our Wahama 
Renaissance events here as that 

185
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,520
we play those quite regularly, 
but we only play them as two 

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00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,320
games in a day. 
We only squeeze them in for that

187
00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:57,120
much. 
But I'd love to do a 2 day 

188
00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:58,640
event. 
That'd be awesome to do that 

189
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,520
one. 
That's yeah it, it is good and 

190
00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:02,880
it's an opportunity to socialise
in the evenings if you if you've

191
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,360
got the time and money. 
I didn't but but I know the 

192
00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,000
other guys went out for a beer 
afterwards and because they 

193
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,320
were, some of them are staying 
in the same hotel right next to 

194
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,800
the venue. 
And it also gives an opportunity

195
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,640
to debrief and talk about what 
we, you know, and if you've got 

196
00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:19,400
a mate there, you know, you talk
about how you're playing the 

197
00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,840
next day and you give each other
advice and that sort of thing 

198
00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,760
and laugh about, you know, the, 
the bad stuff that happened and 

199
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,680
you can't tweak your army lists.
So we, one of the things we did 

200
00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:36,400
with the with so we had, so we 
had the, had the scenario in 

201
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,720
here. 
Like I say, it was quite, it was

202
00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:45,160
quite heavily amended by GW 
through the 90s. 

203
00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:51,240
And and by the time, I think 
probably by the end of the 

204
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:56,840
edition, they had the, the, the 
tournament had evolved. 

205
00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,920
The tournament rules had evolved
quite a bit. 

206
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,600
And I'm just going to quote to 
you where you find that final 

207
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:10,080
iteration of the tournament 
rules, not Wolf 222, because we 

208
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,520
got a lot of amended Magic rules
from that. 

209
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,760
Yep. 
I don't have it off the top of 

210
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,920
my head. 
I'm sorry, Josh, it was in one 

211
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:24,640
of those 23234234. 
No, I made that up. 

212
00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,520
OK, I made that up. 
But so, so things that have were

213
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:34,720
evolving towards the end of the 
90s with 100 point VP system as 

214
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,360
opposed to one VP from right 
from 4th. 

215
00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:46,880
So gaining 465 points for a 465 
point unit as opposed to four in

216
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,200
that sort of thing, 100 points 
for table quarters. 

217
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:53,080
So the VP system was getting a 
bit more sophisticated. 

218
00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:56,680
People who played tournaments 
back then might remember that 

219
00:11:56,680 --> 00:12:00,760
vetoes became a thing. 
So you, you may be allowed to, 

220
00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,600
depending on the con, the 
content of your army, veto enemy

221
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,120
magic items and opponents magic 
items and you have to pay 

222
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:09,840
victory points in order to do 
that. 

223
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,640
And so they start with victory 
points. 

224
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:18,160
I don't think it was a thing in 
the official in the original 

225
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,800
tournament scenario, but where 
it evolved was that you bid 

226
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,400
victory points for the first 
turn. 

227
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,000
I'd forgotten about that. 
So, so you can start a game with

228
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,200
with your opponent having 34500 
victory points. 

229
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:36,200
And I did start some games like 
that, I think 500 with the 

230
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,200
undead maybe because I really 
wanted the 1st. 

231
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:43,520
I really wanted a couple of 
those items out of the game. 

232
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:46,440
Really wanted a couple of those 
items out of the game. 

233
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:53,560
Yeah. 
So so that and I think there are

234
00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:57,960
a couple of along along with the
tournament rules, there are a 

235
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:02,520
couple of restrictions around 
some things you can take. 

236
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:07,040
Greater demons were out, allies 
were mostly but not entirely 

237
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,360
out. 
So Empire could take human dogs 

238
00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,400
of war units, for instance, or 
can you know? 

239
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,960
Yeah, yeah, So yeah, the five, 
five games was was fantastic. 

240
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,120
And then we finished early on 
the last day, which meant sort 

241
00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,800
of prize giving and a big 
debrief and lots of high fiving 

242
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,520
and pack up. 
And and because it was an event 

243
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:35,400
that we were in the club 
provided medals and prizes and 

244
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,960
that was really cool, you know, 
because otherwise we wouldn't, 

245
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,560
wouldn't have been that 
sophisticated. 

246
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,120
They also provided actually lots
of the classic scenery as well 

247
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,240
from their club lockers. 
So we were, we were lucky enough

248
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,800
to have, you know, all the old 
bottle brush trees and the those

249
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,960
green moulded plastic hills. 
And did anyone even bring any of

250
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,560
the whippy? 
I think a couple of guys brought

251
00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:03,760
those dreadful whippy rollers. 
No one got worked with them, 

252
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,720
unlike in the store back in the 
day when kids, I remember kids 

253
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,360
at sword fight with them. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

254
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:12,800
So. 
So it was cool, cool. 

255
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,920
And like you say, having five 
different opponents makes you 

256
00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,760
well, might make you play in 
five different ways, certainly 

257
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:23,160
adjust to five different, you 
know, five different ways of 

258
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,640
sort of you certainly have to 
adjust, you know, just your 

259
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,840
thinking, you know, how am I 
going to take on this new 

260
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,640
opponent? 
I, I have to say my army 

261
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:38,000
probably played like in a pretty
sort of I had the same approach 

262
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,800
basically in every game, which 
is a bit, maybe a bit dreary, 

263
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,760
but anyway, that's, that's, 
that's what worked. 

264
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:47,040
Joe, you want to go through your
list mate? 

265
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,840
What did you take on the day? 
Yeah, yeah. 

266
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:57,200
So for anyone, anyone who 
remembers what else, this is a 

267
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,440
4th edition book. 
So this 4th edition book is, is 

268
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,720
frighteningly good. 
It doesn't look that good. 

269
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,960
The special characters are kind 
of crappy apart from the king 

270
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:08,200
and queen of the Woods, which 
you can't have. 

271
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,760
So the tournament roles, GW 
tournament roles by the late 90s

272
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:17,840
were I think, I think only 
special characters with one 

273
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,560
wound or less. 
Oh, you can't have less 1 wound.

274
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,800
So that's your skink. 
I don't know, you could just 

275
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,840
probably a couple of skinks in 
that category. 

276
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,960
There's one character and 
there'd be very few and I could 

277
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,760
just be making that up. 
Anyway, that's what we had. 

278
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,480
I think that was official DW. 
So you look at the Woodhill 

279
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,800
farming list. 
It doesn't list. 

280
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,160
It doesn't look that good, but 
then actually it's really good. 

281
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:52,200
So my, my whole and look, if you
want to go back to top players 

282
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,680
in the 90s, players like Dave 
Kane, you can see that they're 

283
00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,200
playing with elves and they're 
playing them like like this and 

284
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,080
freak. 
So I'm not, I'm not reinventing 

285
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,280
the wheel. 
So the idea is with this army 

286
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,760
that you avoid combat. 
You avoid combat for the whole 

287
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:09,040
game if you can. 
And you sometimes can, 

288
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:10,640
especially if the enemy is 
really slow. 

289
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,200
And even if the enemy is quite 
fast, you might be able to shoot

290
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,440
the fast things and then the 
rest of them don't get to you. 

291
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,280
So this was an idea I just stole
from Dave Kane. 

292
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:21,480
You've got your what off 
General? 

293
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:22,800
They have the bow of Ethel 
Lauren. 

294
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,280
So they shoot at their rate of 
attacks and the strength is 

295
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,080
their own strength. 
So that's four strength, four 

296
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,120
shots. 
The Ballistics kill 7 so they 

297
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,520
can't miss and you give them a 
potion of strength. 

298
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,280
So if they drink that at the 
start of the turn, they're 

299
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,040
strength seven shots for that 
turn. 

300
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,680
So that's you kill. 
What do you kill with that? 

301
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:44,600
Things like banshees and 
anything ethereal that's walking

302
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,160
around is dead because you 
people may not remember but it's

303
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,160
auto hits if you if you're 
hitting on A1. 

304
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:54,680
Plus with your ballistic skill 
in 5th edition, you don't miss 

305
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,160
on A1. 
Wow. 

306
00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,000
OK, nice. 
Yeah, so he's not going to miss.

307
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,720
So that's that's good. 
I mean, if you're strength 7 

308
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,440
two, you can kill Hebe cavalry 
with it. 

309
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:10,280
So that's a good combination. 
Of course, if they veto, if they

310
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,839
can veto and they veto you, Bow 
of Ethel Lauren, then your 

311
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:14,280
Potion of strength is kind of 
useless. 

312
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,720
They've given you 100 points. 
That's your consolation. 

313
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:22,079
I took Nayaf the properties. 
Again, a nasty little choice. 

314
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:26,760
She's a special character in 
here and she's really weak, but 

315
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,880
her main ability as she has this
owl and the owl flies to one of 

316
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,520
your shooting units a turn and 
it hoots and the hoot is a clue 

317
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,800
about hoot. 
Just shoot and you re roll 

318
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,880
misses. 
So you obviously for what else 

319
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,240
that's really good. 
And the general was in a unit of

320
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,520
18 arches. 
So you put the elf on that they 

321
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,920
all they owl on that they all 
shoot, they re roll misses. 

322
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,880
It's it's a terrible thing. 
I had a mage champion on a war 

323
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,400
hawk with the spell scroll 
destroy magic scroll. 

324
00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,760
So his idea, the idea for him 
was not to cast any spells. 

325
00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,840
He was only unable to they'll 
probably be dispelled but 

326
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,000
actually just fly behind the 
enemy units, March block and 

327
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,400
dispel magic for as long as he 
could. 

328
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,360
I had a ward answer champion 
with the heart of Woe and a unit

329
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:13,120
of ward answers and my idea was 
that an extremist. 

330
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:16,120
If enemy got close enough to 
charge, I would put them in the 

331
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:19,120
way that shadows shadows coil 
for the first turn. 

332
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:21,480
That means no blows are struck 
in the combat as a draw. 

333
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,520
So that's that's great. 
And again, kind of awful, like, 

334
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,920
you know, you have someone that 
marches their army at you, raked

335
00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,280
by bow fire. 
Everyone's falling in heaps. 

336
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,920
They finally get at you like 
turn 5 or something and they're 

337
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:35,720
like, right, I'm finally going 
to kill some elves. 

338
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,720
But you've left like this little
screen of wood answers in the 

339
00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:40,960
way and they charge you and then
you're like our shadows coil, 

340
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,440
game's over. 
And you see their faces fall. 

341
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,280
And that's when you up the ante 
by like slapping them at the 

342
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,040
back of your hand and something 
like that. 

343
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:52,480
So what else is awful? 
But I gave him the heart of why 

344
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,680
I was thinking, I don't know, if
I can't shoot something, maybe I

345
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,200
could run at them and get killed
and blow up and take them with 

346
00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,880
me. 
So he was in a unit of war 

347
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,360
answer that, a second unit of 
war answers. 

348
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,320
So I had one screen on each side
of the army. 

349
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,120
I had a unit of 10 scouts and 
the champion had a hail of Dome 

350
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,840
arrow. 
Don't leave home without that. 

351
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,840
They were ballistic skill 5. 
So pretty, pretty deadly shots. 

352
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,200
And when he shoots, it's an 
average of seven strength 4 

353
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,600
arrows he's shooting. 
And of course, what else? 

354
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,840
Shooting at under half range 
have a -1 to the armor saves, so

355
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,240
within 18 inches so they can 
shoot, you know, things with 

356
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,880
armor saves of 3/4 and, and, and
kill them. 

357
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,440
I had a champion on this is this
is again how cheesy my army was.

358
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,960
I had a champion on a war hawk 
and a unit of war hawk riders. 

359
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:41,760
And he had the black team of 
Nah. 

360
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,360
And the idea there was to fly 
anything deadly and just trap it

361
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:49,000
with the black team of Nah, but 
also to fly over the enemy again

362
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,920
March block or to use them to 
kill artillery crew, which I had

363
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,840
to when I was fighting the high 
elves because the repeated bolt 

364
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,200
thrower was doing terrible 
things to me. 

365
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,440
So then rank and file 18 arches 
unit of nine arches, the two 

366
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,880
units of war answers. 
Like I said I had eight way 

367
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,080
watches. 
I had the 9 scouts of the 

368
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,840
champion, had the war walk 
riders and the only thing I had 

369
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:13,920
for. 
Close combat really were dryads,

370
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:19,040
so 6 dryads. 
So the idea was to just stay 

371
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,280
away from the enemy, deploy on 
the back line, use my 

372
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:28,120
skirmishing units to hide in the
woods to slow them down, to 

373
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:32,840
March block and to bring my 
Flyers if at all possible, or to

374
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,120
kill their flies if if I needed 
to. 

375
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,080
And in in that game against the 
Hiles, they did fly up and kill 

376
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,720
a hero on a Pegasus. 
They killed the Pegasus 

377
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,360
actually. 
And like the hero just fall to 

378
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:47,760
the ground and and then come 
back down behind the enemy and 

379
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:49,520
March block. 
So they're moving only at 4 

380
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,520
inches a tune and you're just 
shooting and shooting and 

381
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,480
shooting. 
So that's, that's the idea. 

382
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:59,120
I got another idea from from 
again from Master Dave Kane, 

383
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,440
which is that in these 
tournament scenarios, you deploy

384
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,600
your terrain, you alternate and 
someone passes and then you you 

385
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:11,280
can put one more piece down, but
putting and you have two hills, 

386
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,520
2 woods in two buildings and 
that's it. 

387
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,800
I would else get another wood as
well. 

388
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,360
So his thing was you put down a 
big hill at your each of the 

389
00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:23,400
table. 
I would never have done this 

390
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:24,840
back in the day. 
I think it would, I thought it 

391
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,560
would have looked unsightly. 
You just put Oh, also I should 

392
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,040
say in the tournament scenarios,
hills are infinitely high. 

393
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,600
That's important. 
So if you're on a hill, you can 

394
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,880
see everything. 
You can't hide. 

395
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,720
Just terrible against the 
shooting army. 

396
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,080
I mean, I guess everything can 
see your units on the hip. 

397
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,440
And what if they can't shoot 
this Moat? 

398
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,680
So you put in a hill and then 
you put the biggest wood you've 

399
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:56,320
got right in front of the hill 
so the enemy can't get to you. 

400
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,640
And there's there's no unit in 
the game. 

401
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,280
I'd be, apart from some 
skirmishes, ethereal troops and 

402
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,720
other wood elves that are going 
to get across the table and 

403
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:12,120
throw a wood in five turns. 
So they are, they have to flank 

404
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:16,120
you so you protect your flanks 
with your wood answers or they 

405
00:22:16,120 --> 00:22:17,680
have to fly high and come down 
on you. 

406
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:21,320
You can stand and shoot when 
things come down from flying 

407
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,680
high, which is no good if you're
charging wood elf arches or 

408
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:26,800
otherwise. 
They just kind of get to you. 

409
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,160
And yeah, yeah. 
So. 

410
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,560
So that's that's the way the 
Army plays. 

411
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,040
And I actually won all five 
games, Josh. 

412
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,320
So it's, yeah, it's a shit. 
It's a shit of an Army. 

413
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,960
I'll be honest, I didn't use the
black team once. 

414
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:42,680
I didn't have to. 
Yeah. 

415
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,400
All right. 
I just machine gunned 

416
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,960
everything. 
Yeah. 

417
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:49,960
Some games I didn't lose any 
miniatures. 

418
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,040
Wow. 
OK. 

419
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,400
We're going to send a nice thank
you letter to David. 

420
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,200
David Kane. 
When? 

421
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,000
You I should, I should if he's 
out there, if he's listening, 

422
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,400
he's probably if he's still with
us because yeah, it's it's a 

423
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,280
shit of an army. 
It's really, really hard to 

424
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,840
beat. 
Now I go, I go really light on 

425
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,040
the magic. 
And I think you can go really 

426
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,080
light on the magic. 
I'd level 1, level 2 to spell 

427
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,080
magic scroll in a destroy magic 
scroll. 

428
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,960
And what I've found is that with
this army at least, that will 

429
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,520
get you through 2 three turns at
will. 

430
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,440
I mean, what are you rolling? 
On average, you're rolling seven

431
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,880
wins of magic. 
On average, you're getting 3 1/2

432
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,440
in your hand. 
Two of those might be power. 

433
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:33,160
That's just not going to give 
your opponent. 

434
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,560
They're just not going to do 
that much damage unless they've 

435
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,000
got something like the potion of
knowledge. 

436
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,280
You just, I think you over. 
You can overestimate how scary 

437
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,320
your opponent's Wizards are. 
Some of the time they're just 

438
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,200
not going to do anything and you
know, and if a few they do roll 

439
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,480
12 cards, they might get 6 and 
you can't get a drain magic and 

440
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,320
then then it's over for them as 
well. 

441
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,320
So I just use magic can be 
terrible like a play spell like 

442
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,040
plague can kill your entire 
units. 

443
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,920
You know, I know that in that 
tournament, the skating player 

444
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,600
killed 20 C guard and one with 
one plague spell. 

445
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,880
And obviously that's why you 
have your destroy magics and 

446
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:19,000
your dispel magic scrolls ready.
But I just think, well, I've 

447
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,440
I've found that you even even 
playing it's the undead. 

448
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:28,000
They had 7 levels of magic I 
could destroy. 

449
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,840
I destroy scrolled, I destroy 
scrolled his van hills dance 

450
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,920
macabre. 
That's what I kept him for. 

451
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,240
So that was great. 
And the rest I just managed to 

452
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,480
sort of keep at a level which 
didn't really affect me. 

453
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,960
Also managed to pack office 
Wizards 1 by 1 as well. 

454
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,840
Yeah. 
So I'm, I'm happy and I've 

455
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,280
actually, it's funny, I've just 
scratched down my well, not 

456
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,040
scratched down. 
It's in it's ironclad now my 

457
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:58,360
list the next year, next year. 
And I'm going to do this same 

458
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:02,440
approach, low, low magic 
approach and just enough to keep

459
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,120
keep it, yeah, keep it damped 
down until I can kill the 

460
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:09,480
Wizards. 
Yeah. 

461
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:11,840
That sounds wonderful. 
Well, we're going to talk a 

462
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,600
little bit more about that. 
I'm going to ask you a few more 

463
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,720
questions about your collections
and about next year's event. 

464
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,000
We're just going to go for a 
very brief ad break and when we 

465
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,080
come back we can ask Joe some 
more questions about the event 

466
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,600
and about here's Wahama history.
I'll be back soon. 

467
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:35,110
I was just actually just looking
on Facebook and on the 4th and 

468
00:25:35,110 --> 00:25:40,470
5th Hirahama Facebook page. 
I saw the tactic in Playmate. 

469
00:25:40,470 --> 00:25:44,000
I saw you using it, the hill and
the and the fire in front of it.

470
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,760
Yeah, I left a nice comment for 
you there, so you can go and 

471
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,400
check out later and see what you
think. 

472
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,120
Yeah, Yeah. 
Look, I was conscious and as I 

473
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:54,560
was talking, well, actually 
reflecting on what I was saying,

474
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,720
Josh, that I'm talking all about
tournaments, right? 

475
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,320
Yeah. 
And tournaments are not 

476
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:03,440
everyone's cup of tea. 
They're actually usually not my 

477
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,680
cup of tea. 
And this tournament was was 

478
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,800
exceptional. 
It's the first tournament I've 

479
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,680
been at Eva where I went away 
wanting to play again and to 

480
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,680
paint again. 
Normally my miniatures go on a 

481
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,400
case. 
I don't even want to look at 

482
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,640
them for months afterwards. 
I've done my dash. 

483
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,880
So this tournament was 
exceptional, but and, and most 

484
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,760
of us felt like that one guy 
even went home and played 

485
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,400
another 3000 point game on the 
Sunday evening after his five 

486
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,160
games over the weekend. 
Yeah, where he was, he was that 

487
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,680
pumped And, and everyone's 
talking about next year and, and

488
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:35,440
what they're going to paint, 
what they're going to play and 

489
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:36,520
stuff. 
And it's it's really cool. 

490
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,400
But yeah, I just wanted to 
acknowledge that tournaments are

491
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,360
not everyone's cup of tea. 
And if you're listening to this 

492
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:44,960
thinking that army list you're 
talking about, Joe sounds 

493
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,320
horrible and that way of playing
sounds horrible. 

494
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,000
And the black team of Nara is 
horrible. 

495
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,400
And I would never let anyone 
play it. 

496
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:57,720
That's absolutely fine too. 
Just for me, it made sense to do

497
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,760
a tournament to get people into 
into the game, but you don't 

498
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,600
have to do it like that. 
And it might not work for for 

499
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,480
you and for the people you know.
So I just want to acknowledge 

500
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,240
that the tournaments are not be 
yours and indoors and there's 

501
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,160
lots of cool, interesting gamers
out there doing awesome 

502
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:15,760
projects. 
It'd be like, I don't want to 

503
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:21,600
spend a whole weekend in a big 
loud hall full of sweaty nudes. 

504
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:26,240
So yeah, was fair enough. 
Some people thrive on that 

505
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,040
environment though, and they 
like some people really like 

506
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,400
tournaments and I totally get 
it. 

507
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,480
I mean, look at the Flailess Sky
Skull guys in Denmark. 

508
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,880
I mean, it's all about the meta 
gaming. 

509
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,880
It's all about that. 
And I think a lot of people get 

510
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:38,720
off on that, and that's fine. 
That's totally cool. 

511
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,840
Yeah, we all get our own little 
thing about it, you know what I 

512
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:41,880
mean? 
It. 

513
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:43,840
Yeah, totally. 
Now, look, in between 

514
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,400
tournaments now we want to play 
the campaign box hits. 

515
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,840
We want to play Grudge of Drong.
It's back there. 

516
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,480
Look, look what I dug out. 
Josh Drong himself. 

517
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,720
He's Drong himself. 
Back in the day, Yep, we want to

518
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:04,640
play a gathering of might, you 
know, a big game, maybe not 

519
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:05,920
quite the gathering of might. 
We don't. 

520
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,560
I don't think 25,000 points 
would be, I think it'd be a bit 

521
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:09,760
much for us. 
So just that too long. 

522
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,000
But yeah, we want to do non 
tournament stuff too. 

523
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,400
So it's not about tournaments, 
it's just how we got started and

524
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,160
I do think it's a good way to 
get started. 

525
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,720
Here's an event, it's going to 
be cool, all the classic scenery

526
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,320
come along, you'll play lots of 
games. 

527
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:25,360
That'll be great. 
Yeah. 

528
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,840
Awesome mate, That's great. 
Talking about the Gathering of 

529
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,320
Might, funnily enough, one of my
Aussie patrons in fact sent me a

530
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,880
message out of the blue and 
said, Hey, Josh, you might want 

531
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,560
to, you know, disregard this 
comment out of hand completely. 

532
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,680
But would you want to do, would 
you want to recreate the 

533
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,240
gathering of Might? 
Because I love doing these, as 

534
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,600
you know, on the channel, 
recreating the scenarios and 

535
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,800
that kind of thing, like the 
campaign sets and all that kind 

536
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,160
of stuff. 
That's where my, my heart is 

537
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,320
really at at the moment. 
And I said, well look mate, I'll

538
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,640
have a look at it. 
I doubt it, but I'll have a look

539
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,400
at it and just go through the 
list and see what we can do. 

540
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,320
So the Orkan goblins are almost 
all covered. 

541
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,200
I've only got a couple of things
that I need to get to actually 

542
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,120
have all the Orkan goblin stuff,
which is. 25,000 points of Orks 

543
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,200
and goblins. 
I've pretty much got it covered.

544
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,520
Yeah, I think the only thing I 
was missing was the ork arches. 

545
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:21,160
I've got. 
I've got 15 ork arches, but I I 

546
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,320
think I needed more. 
I think they had some plastic 

547
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,800
lines. 
Look, yeah, So what were they? 

548
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:27,600
Because they didn't produce them
in 5th edition. 

549
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,440
What? 
What what miniatures were they? 

550
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,400
Are they 3rd edition Ork arches?
Yes, they're. 

551
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,560
Part or are they savagely? 
Oh, right, OK, yeah, they're the

552
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,240
old Kate Adams regiments and 
renown Ork arches, right? 

553
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:42,840
Did they just? 
Scavenge. 

554
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,520
Archers, they possibly did. 
Yeah, they did, but they're 

555
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,360
absolutely useless. 
I mean, why would you want to 

556
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,520
give a frenzied orc and a bow? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, true. 

557
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,440
True, shoot for shit anyway, but
then. 

558
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,480
Unless you wanted to put a 
shaman in there and get the 

559
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,240
extra. 
Like get five of them and put a 

560
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,680
shaman and have them at the back
to get the extra power card. 

561
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:09,800
Yeah, no, Sam, Sam, one of my 
English friends, he plays with 

562
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,400
us in our group. 
We started playing 5th edition 

563
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,640
when I, of course, when I first 
started the Crown of Command. 

564
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,160
And that's how it all really 
started. 

565
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,520
We played 5th edition solely. 
And Sam was one of the guys I 

566
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,400
met here locally and he's got 
one of the most impressive 

567
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,840
looking Savage York armies 
you've ever seen. 

568
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,800
He's collected all the models 
painted beautifully in that sort

569
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,840
of, you know, era style and 
everything. 

570
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,720
And, and it was the first time I
really got to see Savage Yorks 

571
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,680
on the table. 
And I love how they've got the 

572
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,760
extra bonus wins and Magic 
cards. 

573
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,200
And he plays a really strong 
competitive. 

574
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,120
And it's an extra save. 
Yeah, it's award save. 

575
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,840
So you can throw it, you can, 
you can Chuck a cannonball 

576
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:52,680
through those bloody things and 
they'll get a save on it. 

577
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,480
You know, they'll just bounce 
off it or whatever. 

578
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,600
And I'll never forget that first
game we ever played. 

579
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,200
And I just wasn't, I just wasn't
thinking of what was going to 

580
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,080
happen. 
But he charged his giant into my

581
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,680
unit. 
He picked up my general, my 

582
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,560
dwarf general, because I was 
playing dwarfs and he stuck him.

583
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,400
He stuck my general in his 
pocket and that was the end of 

584
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:11,760
it. 
Like I, I think I got one. 

585
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,600
I think you get a chance to 
attack him or something before 

586
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,400
he put he. 
Stuff he wound, he wound him. 

587
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,320
I think he drops you. 
Yeah, and I didn't wound him, so

588
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:22,760
he was gone. 
I'll never forget that. 

589
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,360
It was classic. 
Yeah, I remember playing a game 

590
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,040
in in London at the GW store I 
was running and we were playing 

591
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,200
7th edition. 
But yeah, a giant with one wound

592
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,200
got across the table and got my 
dwarf general and picked him up 

593
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,600
at my dwarf general, got him 
between the eyes with his axe. 

594
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,600
And yeah, it's a good moment. 
Yeah, it's cool. 

595
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:42,000
Yeah. 
Giants are great. 

596
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,280
They're, I think those big 
model, those big miniatures, 

597
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,960
it's it's lovely to see them on 
the table. 

598
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,960
And, you know, something that 
just howls over the the rest of 

599
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,680
the troops and, you know, causes
terror. 

600
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,680
Terror is a common mechanic. 
I love the idea of something 

601
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,640
just walking up to your army, 
everyone running away, Maybe not

602
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,840
my army, but an opponent's army.
So yeah, Orcs and goblins. 

603
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:07,520
Orcs and goblins other heart. 
I feel like the other the the 

604
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,440
spirit of UMM of the that 
edition of Warhammer. 

605
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,280
They they encapsulate the sort 
of the Geist of. 

606
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:20,280
Umm, yes, very much the. 
Era and and it's that some of 

607
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:26,320
that fun that I feel was so so 
conspicuously lacking in 6th 

608
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:31,480
edition like umm like Thomas 
Perinan I mean he just it was so

609
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,280
sombre so sort of grey you even 
look at the artwork I mean I 

610
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,440
actually think I've got rid of 
all my 6 edition stuff pretty. 

611
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:38,560
Impressing. 
Really. 

612
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,720
Yeah. 
Yeah, the artwork is really 

613
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,040
grim. 
It's like horrific. 

614
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,600
And it's, you know, it's it's 
in, you know, it's in blacks and

615
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:52,000
whites and it's just dark. 
And I think as I've got older, 

616
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,320
I've actually wanted a bit least
darkness in my life, to be 

617
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:56,640
honest. 
Yes, Josh, I've got kids. 

618
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,320
I've got kids. 
I've got Yeah. 

619
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,440
I mean, the world is like the 
world is really. 

620
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,880
Dark, pretty dark place at the 
moment, especially now, yeah. 

621
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,680
In modern, not for me in New 
Zealand, but, but even for 

622
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,640
people, probably even for people
in my community, it's a pretty 

623
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,280
miserable place to live, you 
know, and I. 

624
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:13,800
Yeah, yeah. 
I just don't. 

625
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,600
Really want there I mean much 
least 40K40 Ki just find like 

626
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,080
what a horrific vision of like a
future. 

627
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,800
I don't want to imagine it, but 
yeah, but like so 5th edition 

628
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,920
with it's kind of ridiculousness
and and the element of humour 

629
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,960
and and the bizarre, like the 
how colourful it was, you know, 

630
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:32,640
orks and goblins were like 
clowns. 

631
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,160
You know, I, I love that stuff. 
I really do. 

632
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,440
Yeah, me too, mate. 
My, my heart's firmly set within

633
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,760
that era of gaming because, and 
I think 5th edition, what it 

634
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,400
sets it apart from 4th edition 
because 4th edition obviously 

635
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,360
preset that template of goblin 
green bases, everything's lush 

636
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,920
green table tops, very vibrant 
colours. 

637
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,120
But I think 5th edition, they 
just turned that dial up to 11. 

638
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,240
You know what I mean? 
When they when they had the 

639
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:04,720
technology that had, they used 
obviously better computers or 

640
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,440
better software, desktop 
publishing software to really 

641
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,320
amp up the saturation and all 
the photos, everything looked 

642
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,400
really Uber pumped and they had 
so many photos in the books. 

643
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,360
Like, I was looking, I was 
looking at John, right? 

644
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,360
And he's got the, you know, the 
giant read gloves, you know, not

645
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,639
just to me, like giant read 
gloves are very reminiscent. 

646
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:25,760
He's got a few scratches, 
actually. 

647
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:27,840
I need to repaint him or maybe 
strip and try it again. 

648
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,920
But yeah, just giant read gloves
are very much of the era. 

649
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,880
Like who who wears big red 
gloves? 

650
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,040
Like, yeah, they're fantastic. 
Fantastic. 

651
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,280
I am actually. 
I'll just just note Paul 

652
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,960
Sawyer's poor health. 
It's, it's really terrible news 

653
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:49,400
there. 
And it sounds I understand he's 

654
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,600
terminally ill and that's that's
no good. 

655
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:56,040
That's no good. 
But yeah, his army, his KZ Bulg 

656
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,640
army was really, really 
inspiring for me. 

657
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,520
And while I never managed to 
pull off a really workable dwarf

658
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,360
army I liked in that era, that 
army was and is awesome. 

659
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,560
I know where it is. 
It's still still out there. 

660
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,080
It's owned by a guy in the 
States. 

661
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,120
You should get him on the 
podcast. 

662
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,600
Actually, you should get him to 
show it. 

663
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,280
It's the black and Yellow army, 
if you can imagine it. 

664
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,560
Right. 
It's really cool, really cool. 

665
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,440
And again, that, that those 
colours, so all his war machines

666
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,440
are black and yellow. 
His troll slayers are all half 

667
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,240
black, like sort of all paint. 
And it's cold. 

668
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,640
It was in a white dwarf, which 
is where I saw it, but I found 

669
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,600
the guy who who owns it now. 
And yeah, like those, those 

670
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,560
bright colours just yeah, very 
much of the era, really 

671
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,360
inspiring. 
Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm looking at 

672
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:46,360
my editor at the back in the 
background here in iMovie here 

673
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,600
and I can just see green, green,
green, green, green, green, 

674
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,680
green, green. 
But that, that it's that color 

675
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,600
that makes me feel happy. 
I think every time I pick up 

676
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,320
something from the 90s and you 
flip through the pages, White 

677
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,800
Dwarf could be your 5th edition 
battle book, rule book or 

678
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,040
whatever. 
Everything about those 

679
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:07,080
publications just brought a 
certain certain sense of warmth 

680
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,480
and humor, which I think just 
just lacks in the later 

681
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,240
editions. 
And that's why I that's why I 

682
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:16,720
just stopped playing. 
I just got out of GW altogether.

683
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:19,440
It just wasn't something that I 
was, you know, on SO. 

684
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,480
Did I? 
I stayed in Josh because I 

685
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,280
worked for. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

686
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,400
But. 
But I just had least and least, 

687
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,960
sort of least and least kind of 
interest in the game. 

688
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:32,040
And, you know, as the army 
swelled as well, just swelled 

689
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,040
and swelled and swelled and 
that, you know, the units got 

690
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,120
bigger and bigger and bigger and
the game got sort of more and 

691
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,640
more expensive and, and more 
complex, in some ways least 

692
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,160
complex than others. 
And I just found that I can. 

693
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,960
Nostalgia is a powerful thing, 
right? 

694
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,160
Like, none of us in the weekend 
denied that That was half of the

695
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,600
appeal of the game. 
Does that make the game any 

696
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,040
least it was? 
It is what it is, and it's a 

697
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,080
powerful thing. 
I guess we, you know, if there 

698
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,840
are things we associate with 
good times in our lives, we'll, 

699
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:08,360
you know, be drawn to them. 
And for me, getting into getting

700
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,880
my first job at McDonald's when 
I was 17 to buy Warhammer, 

701
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,920
specifically to buy Warhammer, 
it's a great, great wage. 

702
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,200
Like everyone, all the other 
kids were like 4 bucks an hour. 

703
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,920
I was on 850 at McDonald's and 
all the money went on Warhammer.

704
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,920
And that's just a really good 
time in my life. 

705
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,160
I had no real responsibilities. 
I had a great parents, great 

706
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:35,360
home, biked everywhere. 
You know, I just, so that was 

707
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,320
kind of my freedom. 
I probably got a car a little 

708
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,880
bit after that, a really old 
Toyota, not a Honda, Honda 

709
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,120
Civic, but yeah. 
And I just and I could afford a 

710
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,760
a Warhammer army for the first 
time and it was just awesome. 

711
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:54,400
It was just awesome. 
On that note, this is my this 

712
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,400
isn't the first ever GW 
miniature I bought in from in 

713
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:02,000
89. 
It was in a pack of three, Josh 

714
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:02,920
in it. 
Hang on. 

715
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,360
How do I put these stupid things
together? 

716
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:05,640
I never liked them. 
Leave. 

717
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,800
I bought it and then I was like,
I don't even like this. 

718
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:13,760
And it's one of those plug in 
empire, plug in empire minutes. 

719
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And you could, you know, you 

720
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,800
could buy them with halberds or 
so I bought a pack of three and 

721
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:27,880
it's 20 bucks in 1989. 
And I was 9 and it took me like 

722
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,760
4 or five months to save up that
much money. 

723
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,160
And I, I, I quickly realized 
that I'm not going to be able to

724
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,040
afford to play Warhammer now in 
a mate of mine of course had he 

725
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,720
had rich parents, both lawyers 
and he at the age of like 92, I 

726
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:48,200
think he was getting the pre the
Empire army, which had been all 

727
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,400
done for the release of 4th. 
And. 

728
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,440
It featured in a It featured in 
at least one Metal report. 

729
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,120
It was the first better of 
whatever read was the New Empire

730
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,320
Miniatures played under Third 
Edition rules against wood elves

731
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,880
in dwarves. 
It's an awesome battle report. 

732
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,000
Yeah, so he had all that stuff 
by the time we were 12, and I 

733
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,120
was so jealous. 
Anyway, five years later, I get 

734
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,640
my own job, I get my wood elves,
I get my Britannians. 

735
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,280
And. 
And this is the first minute try

736
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,320
you've ever painted. 
Oh, right. 

737
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,040
So there's a Britannian knight 
you're holding up there? 

738
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,320
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

739
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:26,480
And Britannian Knight, Yeah, 
that you bought in a box of 

740
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,320
three I think. 
Yeah, I think that's about 

741
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,440
right. 
So that's I've still got that it

742
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,080
took me a spray painted it black
and trying to get these bright 

743
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,040
colours using those thin paints 
of the era took me about a week 

744
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,160
I think with a size 0 brush as 
well to. 

745
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,680
To paint job in that though Joe,
yeah, it's. 

746
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,360
Not too big. 
Yeah. 

747
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:53,160
Well, it took me a while. 
So, yeah, that that was my 

748
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,440
entry. 
So wood elves and then obviously

749
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,640
in the law, wood elves and 
Britannia are kind of fractious,

750
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,680
but they, they ally with each 
other and, and over time, that 

751
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,000
became more explicit. 
And the Lady of the Lake became 

752
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,960
an elf or Ariel or or something 
like that. 

753
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:15,040
So I got Brutonians next and 
then I then I moved to our 

754
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:20,040
capital city, Wellington for, 
for university and they had AGW 

755
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,880
store. 
So I was just in there all the 

756
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,080
time and spending all my spare 
money there. 

757
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,520
And it was, I mean, that was a 
wonderful era for shops as well.

758
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,440
I think those guys were 
Australians. 

759
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,760
They came over to get it, get it
going and you know, you had the 

760
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,480
store, it was full. 
I had those huge sort of middle 

761
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,600
ranges they had what were they 
doing? 

762
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,480
Gorka Moka sucked and and we all
know, you know that the story of

763
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,360
like them just creating a game 
in like a few months rather than

764
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:58,080
release War master Mordheim came
out, then war master as well. 

765
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,640
And and the store was just 
great. 

766
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:05,440
You know, big a big space, five 
staff, all the fantastic 

767
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,440
handmade terrain they used to 
have. 

768
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:13,520
Gaming was just like encouraged.
They had 6 by 4 tables, lots of 

769
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,840
giveaways and you know, they had
the Christmas discounts and 

770
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,120
raffles. 
And there was the era where you 

771
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,760
you built an army and you got 
the pieces of the fortress. 

772
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,160
I did you have that in 
Australia? 

773
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,600
No, I don't think so. 
I've got one of those cards 

774
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,760
around. 
So if you got like a, you 

775
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,200
collected 2 heroes, you got like
the gates. 

776
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,560
And if you collected like 2 core
units, you have to get them 

777
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,560
stamped in this little booklet. 
You got the two towers. 

778
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,880
And then if you collected 2 war 
machines, you've got another two

779
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,480
towers and then a monster, you 
got 2 walls. 

780
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,440
And so you built an army and you
got a fortress at the end of it.

781
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,360
Wow, OK. 
Yeah, it was. 

782
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:54,880
Just amazing. 
It's. 

783
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:56,600
Cool. 
Yeah, it was really cool. 

784
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,000
It was really cool. 
I, I went to the official store 

785
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,560
opening. 
I got there at like 5:00 in the 

786
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,640
morning, so I was number one 
through the doors and the 

787
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,840
manager like rugby passed me 
right down the store. 

788
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,720
I steag it on. 
Luckily I caught it but he just 

789
00:42:12,720 --> 00:42:15,200
fired it down the sea must have 
played played rugby league 

790
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,800
himself and, and I managed to 
catch that and that was my free 

791
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,600
gift for being the 1st in the 
door and it was a really cool 

792
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,080
time. 
It was a cool time. 

793
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,440
So, so the nostalgia for me is, 
is all associated with this, 

794
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,240
this awesome key free time in my
life when I was playing great 

795
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:34,560
games and, and having fun. 
And, and obviously my life as a 

796
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:37,000
parent working and stuff is 
quite different. 

797
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,760
And it's a real buzz to, to go 
back there in a way. 

798
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:46,240
Yeah, to, to, to cosplay as a 
teenager again or something like

799
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:47,840
that. 
Cosplay's probably not the right

800
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:48,560
word. 
Laugh maybe. 

801
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:49,480
Yeah. 
Laugh. 

802
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,240
Yeah, yeah. 
It's a wonderful time, mate. 

803
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,160
I think everyone has that kind 
of shared experience. 

804
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,760
If they either had their own 
gangs workshop in their local 

805
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,640
city or area, if they weren't 
that lucky like me, they had 

806
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,400
friends around or clubs to go to
that they could share all their 

807
00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:10,280
hobby geekiness with and get 
inspired to start the new new 

808
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:11,960
project. 
So that's good mate. 

809
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:18,360
So also, was Warhammer the only 
game you played or did you sort 

810
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,600
of dabble with other systems 
later on? 

811
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,200
GW just talk about. 
Yeah, just talk about. 

812
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:25,600
Yeah, just do it, GW. 
Yeah. 

813
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:35,880
Yeah, so I, so I made me think 
I, I played a lot of Mordheim 

814
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,200
heap heaps and more time. 
We had a we had a fantastic 

815
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,280
couple of more time tables built
by a really clever store staff. 

816
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:48,920
I mean like beautiful, not like 
kind of cardboard tube towels 

817
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,600
and stuff. 
Beautiful, beautiful tables. 

818
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,160
Those guys were really skilled. 
So I played lots of more time. 

819
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,000
I got into a bit of a wallmaster
at the time. 

820
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,520
I wish I'd played it more. 
I wish I and then I more 

821
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,160
recently I bought a bunch of war
war master armies and then sort 

822
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,040
of sold them. 
I just sort of assessed I, I 

823
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,280
wouldn't really wouldn't really 
play it. 

824
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:16,480
So yeah, so War Master I really 
liked more time in, in Warhammer

825
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,040
and that was it really. 
I, I never played Warhammer 

826
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,840
Quest. 
I never had it. 

827
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,240
I had hero Quest and actually of
the two, I think Hero quest is 

828
00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:28,440
better. 
I personally think Warhammer 

829
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:33,040
Quest is not quite a role play. 
It's not a great role-playing 

830
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:39,680
game, and it's not quite what I 
want in AI. 

831
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,680
Don't know, dungeon exploring, I
don't know. 

832
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:44,040
Yeah, I mean, I've had a couple 
of copies since and I've sold 

833
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,840
them both. 
I didn't play Man of War. 

834
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,400
I think Man of War was awesome. 
Oh, I forgot to say it was a 

835
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,680
huge Man of War demonstration 
game at this tournament. 

836
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,200
It was like, yes, huge like. 
That's right. 

837
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,480
It was massive mate. 
Huge, huge, huge. 

838
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:58,960
And it was just that was 
awesome. 

839
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,040
I like in breaks. 
I was in the weekend, I was 

840
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,000
looking at it and that was that 
was really cool. 

841
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,080
So yeah, so those were my main 
games. 

842
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,440
I mean, Warhammer really was was
it for me. 

843
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:16,880
I was never really into 40 KII 
just just didn't really grab me.

844
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,000
That's fair enough. 
The pretty much the basic 

845
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,920
problem for me in 40K is as all 
those weapons shooting about 

846
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,640
halfway across the table, like 
all those weapons have got like 

847
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,760
100m range. 
I just couldn't, I don't know, 

848
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,720
for like a, you know, a high 
sort of a high tick kind of war 

849
00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:40,480
game. 
It just didn't really worked for

850
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,920
me, even even though I think 
some of the stuff's cool and 

851
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:47,680
and, and yeah, I mean, I like, I
like the metal guards, Imperial 

852
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,480
Guard of the era, yeah, like 
that those those various 

853
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,320
regiments that the Perry's all 
made. 

854
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,000
And yeah, that's, that's cool 
stuff. 

855
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:57,680
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean, I wouldn't complain if I

856
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,720
had like a gun. 
I mean from that era. 

857
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:01,800
I'm sure you wouldn't now. 
Yeah, exactly. 

858
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,560
Yeah, no, it was never really my
my jam. 

859
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:08,120
And I, I did play 40K and I 
worked for the the shop, I 

860
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:12,320
worked for the shops worked for 
GW, but yeah, it wasn't my, my 

861
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,280
kind of thing. 
I also never really liked Lord 

862
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,320
of the Rings. 
I yeah, I don't like the system,

863
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,880
didn't like it, still don't. 
And I don't really like the way 

864
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:25,960
I don't like the aesthetics from
the movies. 

865
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:27,840
I. 
Yes, me too. 

866
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,520
I gotta admit I don't. 
I just don't, I just don't like 

867
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,760
if I wanted Lord of the Rings 
stuff, I'd be looking at Colin 

868
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,000
Patton's fantastic Ragnarok 
Arrange that he's doing now, 

869
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:43,520
which is much more sort of toned
down, down to earth kind of Dark

870
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,680
Ages influence stuff. 
And I reckon that's amazing. 

871
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:55,400
In fact, he did a bunch of 12 
dwarfs and a wizard and a Hobbit

872
00:46:56,240 --> 00:46:58,040
halfling. 
You can buy them through you can

873
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,400
buy all this stuff through 
gripping beast and that is just 

874
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,760
now that's really cool. 
That's that that range, although

875
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,080
that little I have. 
To go and check them out this. 

876
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,760
Is amazing. 
Yeah, do do Ragnarok Miniatures.

877
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,120
Ragnarok Miniatures. 
Now, were these the talented 

878
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:14,760
people who released a whole heap
of Vikings at some point as 

879
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,080
well? 
They looked incredible. 

880
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,200
Yeah, and he's got some trolls 
coming out, a few different 

881
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:21,760
groups of trolls all in one 
Kickstarter. 

882
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,080
And a group of them are sort of 
the armoured kind of dark, you 

883
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,240
like Middle East, kind of Middle
East, sort of almost half trolls

884
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,880
I think that are described in 
the they had like the Black 

885
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,920
Gates or whatever. 
Yeah. 

886
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,840
So yeah, I mean, so, so Lord of 
the Rings was never my cup of 

887
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,080
tea, despite living in Lord of 
the Rings land. 

888
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,640
Yeah, yeah, and being an extra 
and Lord of the Rings. 

889
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,280
Oh, right, still. 
Yeah, still didn't think it was 

890
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:51,440
that cool, but yeah, yeah, 
interesting, interesting. 

891
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:52,800
It was. 
It was big though for Games 

892
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,840
Workshop. 
I can't deny when I was working 

893
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,840
with them in like 2002, thousand
and one, 2002, the stores were 

894
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:03,640
just full of kids. 
Everyone wanted Lord of the 

895
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,400
Rings and there was that. 
I don't know whether it was 

896
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,600
international, but Australasian,
that magazine. 

897
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,320
Do you have the one which? 
I remember. 

898
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,200
Yeah, Yep. 
And that was brilliant. 

899
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,960
I mean, as a, like, marketing 
tool. 

900
00:48:15,240 --> 00:48:17,160
Yeah. 
A miniature each week or each 

901
00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:19,640
month, right? 
Yeah, Yeah, That's right. 

902
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,760
So they're going to have people 
in the door. 

903
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:23,560
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, they did it the 

904
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:24,320
right way. 
Yeah. 

905
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,280
They couldn't sell it quick 
enough or they didn't have 

906
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,440
enough stuff to sell quick 
enough, basically. 

907
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,480
So also mate, you're talking 
before about hosting the event 

908
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,720
next year and you're already 
making plans and making your 

909
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:40,600
lists and obviously there's a 
Facebook group that people can 

910
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,320
visit in order to interact with 
yourself and other people to 

911
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:48,040
find out more about it. 
Have you already pre set a date 

912
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,840
or something for next year or? 
Yeah, no, we're just waiting on 

913
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:52,720
the club. 
So Wellington Moorlords is the 

914
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:54,840
the club in our capital. 
So there's a couple of clubs in 

915
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,160
the capital city and there's two
clubs and each one does its own,

916
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,440
each one does its own event. 
They're both great. 

917
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,320
So one in one in April, but then
Wellington Moorlords says the is

918
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:08,560
sort of August, September. 
So we're just, we're just 

919
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,160
waiting on the next date. 
When we've got that date, we'll,

920
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:17,320
I guess I will ask around for 
some tentative commitments 

921
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,800
because they don't, I mean, they
don't want to give a waste over 

922
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,600
the weekend. 
They had every inch of space, 

923
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,960
like I said, 170 people playing 
and they don't want to sort of 

924
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,360
waste, waste time with with 
people that say I'll run an 

925
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:31,640
event and then it doesn't 
happen. 

926
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,080
Yeah, So I'll ask around and if 
I can get a sense that, you 

927
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:40,040
know, we can get 66810 people 
coming, then then we'll do it 

928
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:43,440
again. 
And and yeah, I've for next 

929
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,680
year. 
Oh. 

930
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:51,680
Empire Well, yeah, so I I don't 
know whether I mentioned that 

931
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,480
all of my staff from my teenage 
years in the end sort of got 

932
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,880
trashed. 
I just just didn't look after 

933
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,280
it. 
I didn't really care. 

934
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:02,160
Periods of not playing I just 
didn't have, probably didn't 

935
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,160
have cases. 
I don't think back then if I had

936
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:09,280
money I wasn't going to spend it
on cases as opposed to, you 

937
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,800
know, so it would have been kept
in like boxes and stuff. 

938
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:14,840
So I don't have much from that 
era. 

939
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,640
I've got a, I've got a big 
cornate army, so that's, that's 

940
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,760
pretty cool. 
But then actually I pretty much 

941
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:24,880
had nothing else. 
Then over the years I've 

942
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:28,480
collected more and I've sold it 
as I've been broke or wanted to 

943
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,520
buy the things. 
So what I've got now is actually

944
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:36,480
all mostly scrounged from 
Facebook marketplace over the 

945
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,560
last three or four years. 
I've got my wood elves thanks to

946
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:44,040
lots of helpful Australians. 
Great, good to be heaps. 

947
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,880
Yeah, heaps of people that that 
maybe depart with, with the wood

948
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:51,160
elves. 
And then I've got my empire, and

949
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:55,360
I've probably ended up with 
about 6000 points, I think, all 

950
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:56,880
up. 
Wow, that's good. 

951
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:00,360
That's barring a few key pieces.
Yeah. 

952
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:01,800
Yeah. 
And so I'm really looking 

953
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,000
forward to building that, 
although a bit a bit daunted by 

954
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,200
the amount of painting because 
I'm a terrible procrastinator, 

955
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,240
Josh, and I'm an extremely slow 
painter, so. 

956
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:15,080
Well, you've got heavy LED 
studios mate, it can help you 

957
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:19,240
out no problem, OK? 
Yeah, probably could send me the

958
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:20,960
list. 
Yeah, probably wouldn't have the

959
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:22,640
budget there, but look, thank 
you. 

960
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,720
And I did actually. 
I want to acknowledge a really 

961
00:51:25,720 --> 00:51:29,160
good mate of mine here who 
stepped in to try and get to 

962
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,640
help paint one more unit before 
the before the tournament. 

963
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,920
But I was the guy who had some 
unpainted miniatures. 

964
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,920
Isn't that shameful? 
The the TO and I too, and there 

965
00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:41,480
were a few few well deserved 
jokes about it. 

966
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:43,880
But I think that's important as 
well. 

967
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:45,960
That's something that Games 
Workshop eventually got the head

968
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,760
around that you don't, you know,
you'd encourage people to paint 

969
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:51,840
your miniatures, but you don't 
make that a barrier. 

970
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:57,600
I think certainly if you've got 
tiny little dead system that you

971
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,360
want people to play, I would 
think it would be crazy to say 

972
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,600
you can't come if you haven't 
painted all your miniatures or 

973
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,160
they not have a certain standard
or. 

974
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:07,120
Yeah. 
They're not official. 

975
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:08,440
They're not official G dub 
stuff. 

976
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:12,040
I I wouldn't like that at all. 
So we had some romantic, I'm 

977
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:13,960
sure there were semantic 
miniatures floating around over 

978
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:15,840
the weekend. 
I think that some Minotaur, 

979
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:20,080
semantic minotaur and stuff and 
like, who cares, honestly, as 

980
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:24,760
long as they're based in a way 
that will work and, and things. 

981
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,520
And I think that's that's one of
the many strengths of the 

982
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,120
Mordheim community. 
Like you just have to go online 

983
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,120
and you see that people are just
making it happen with whatever, 

984
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:41,080
you know, like, and it would be 
so stupid to just cling on to 

985
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,560
that limited range of miniatures
which came out in the 90s. 

986
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,200
I mean, I know it's sort of 
available by recast and stuff 

987
00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:49,080
now you can get just about 
anything. 

988
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:52,200
But but Even so, you know, 
people are making the immort 

989
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,960
home stuff from everything and 
it's cool. 

990
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:56,960
Like good on them. 
And Thomas thinks that's 

991
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,200
awesome. 
And yeah, that's that's healthy.

992
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,280
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
That that I think we do the 

993
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:05,600
same. 
It's we have a couple of guys 

994
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,160
who put in some proxy models 
from different companies and 

995
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:09,920
that's fine. 
Totally, absolutely, totally. 

996
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,720
If you I know that Nick, Nick, 
he runs some, it's like only 

997
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:18,080
like ogres that he got from some
company in Poland or whatever, 

998
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:20,320
that's totally fine. 
Like I, I really don't, it 

999
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,400
really doesn't matter. 
It's it's we're all enjoying a 

1000
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,560
game that we we love and we get 
to get together and socialize 

1001
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,000
and play. 
And if you like another 

1002
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:32,000
manufacturer's models that's do 
you think are better than the, 

1003
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,320
the new ones or sorry the the 
the old present ones or current 

1004
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,680
ones or whatever, that's fine. 
It's just down to personal taste

1005
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,360
and. 
Yeah, I remember a a singer that

1006
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,040
I really like who was talking 
about his music being influenced

1007
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:49,760
by old rock'n'roll in the 50s 
and 60s. 

1008
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,000
And he said, you know, but you 
can't just, you can't live in 

1009
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,120
the past. 
And if you do, you kind of you 

1010
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,320
end up you're probably going to 
end up becoming a parody, a 

1011
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:02,320
parody of that stuff or a parody
of yourself or something. 

1012
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,360
He just said, you know, you do 
have to move for the times, even

1013
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:09,280
if the will that you drink from 
is of a specific time and 

1014
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,000
influenced by that. 
And I think I think that's 

1015
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,840
important. 
You know, we some of the paint 

1016
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,080
jobs that some of the paint 
schemes that we saw in the 

1017
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:21,160
weekend were much more modern, 
like much lots of sort of softer

1018
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,800
colours. 
I didn't see any big red gloves 

1019
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:26,720
disappointingly over the 
weekend. 

1020
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:31,920
But yeah, but that was, that was
all good, you know, and they 

1021
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:33,440
were in there. 
Actually, now that I think about

1022
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,480
it, there were quite a few 6th 
edition plastics and maybe 7th 

1023
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:39,960
edition plastics creeping in 
there too, with some of those 

1024
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,160
ranges. 
But pardon me. 

1025
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,760
But yeah, it was, I think, I 
think if you want this to 

1026
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,760
happen, you just have to have a 
degree of flexibility and 

1027
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,680
welcome, welcome people in as 
well. 

1028
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,000
Yeah, absolutely. 
Now we're almost at the at the 

1029
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,480
stage two. 
I was going to say and touch on 

1030
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,400
this because I've actually 
interviewed a few people that 

1031
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,600
are making alternate models 
based on the aesthetics of 4th 

1032
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,560
and 5th edition era, which is I 
think it's a great idea and it's

1033
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,520
a great initiative that people 
are doing that because there is 

1034
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:10,240
a certain charm about those 
models that people want to 

1035
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:13,600
reflect in the 3D 3D sculpting 
world now. 

1036
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,840
And there's there's obviously a 
growing market for that because 

1037
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,960
they want to get something 
that's affordable. 

1038
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:20,600
They can print out mass amounts 
of it. 

1039
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,560
And we're almost at the stage 
now in our gaming group where 

1040
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,640
we've got people like Wellington
here and Aussie made a mind. 

1041
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:29,320
He's got a pretty much an all 
printed army. 

1042
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:31,840
Yeah, yeah. 
I'm, I'm not surprised. 

1043
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,480
I haven't seen one, but I'm not 
surprised. 

1044
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,840
Josh, are you familiar with the 
guy who's doing the chaos tours?

1045
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:39,720
Chaos Tours. 
Fabbazil. 

1046
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,600
Yeah, I think Broniak. 
Well, Broniak, I think, I think 

1047
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:45,880
so. 
OK, well, I know. 

1048
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,960
I know Marco. 
Who? 

1049
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:50,520
Who does? 
He's from Norway. 

1050
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,200
I interviewed him on the 
podcast. 

1051
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:56,960
Fantastic guy, does some 
beautiful looking Kas dwarf 

1052
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:02,040
models and that's from Brawniak.
And there's Fabizel, another 

1053
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,320
really nice guy. 
Haven't got him on the podcast 

1054
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:08,600
yet, but I would soon hope that 
we can arrange that and he does 

1055
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,800
an another fantastic range of 
Kas. 

1056
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,960
Dwarf now, now I'm not sure it's
one of the two, but I'm yeah, 

1057
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,120
look, that stuff I just thought 
was I just thought was really 

1058
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:18,880
cool. 
Some of the phenomenal, Yeah, 

1059
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:23,200
some of them are just amazing. 
Yesterday I interviewed a man 

1060
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:27,040
from Celtic Miniatures out over 
in Canada, Ian. 

1061
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:31,600
And he does again a range of 
models, cow stoves, dwarves, 

1062
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:36,720
undead and Orkin goblins in the 
same aesthetical field. 

1063
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:41,200
He loves all the old style Milt 
models and he's done a very same

1064
00:56:41,240 --> 00:56:45,720
similar aesthetic. 
And we've got lots of other guys

1065
00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:47,360
that are going to come on the 
podcast and talk about it 

1066
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:51,040
because I want that to be an 
option for people to keep it 

1067
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:55,520
open there to say, because that 
barrier of paying essentially 

1068
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,080
what a grand to get into 
Warhammer. 

1069
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,080
You know, that's what cost me to
get my dwarf arm here. 

1070
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,400
It could cost me about a grand 
to get into it right, to get 

1071
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,400
everything I'm. 
Just yeah, I'm just trying to 

1072
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,320
think some. 
Mass investment, you know, So 

1073
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,800
what we want to, we want to, 
yeah. 

1074
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:12,400
Oh, yeah, it would. 
Yeah. 

1075
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:13,520
No, it would be. 
It would be. 

1076
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,680
I mean, I, yeah. 
I don't think you have all the 

1077
00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:18,160
postage costs. 
Yeah, when you get the posters 

1078
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,040
costs and everything and you're 
buying in little pieces, little 

1079
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,480
pieces here and there and that 
kind of thing, yeah, it all adds

1080
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,040
up and you're going to look in 
about a grand to get in. 

1081
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:29,560
I I think you're about right. 
It's here. 

1082
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:33,640
It would be about the same cost 
that was back in the day like, 

1083
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:37,920
and yeah, yeah, it could easily 
be that much, especially if you 

1084
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:41,120
want to go all metal, which and 
I really like metal miniatures. 

1085
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:44,160
I I mean, I know I'm a bit of a 
dinosaur, but I just, I really 

1086
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,880
like them. 
I really like the heft I know. 

1087
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:49,440
I love like. 
Attacking anyone with them like 

1088
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:50,720
putting. 
Them in a sock and sort. 

1089
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,120
Of fighting my way, way out of 
like a dangerous situation. 

1090
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:58,240
But maybe I could maybe, maybe 
in an extremist, I could put a 

1091
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:01,160
unit of flagellants in it, which
would be kind of appropriate 

1092
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,280
actually in a sock and and and 
use them as a weapon. 

1093
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,600
It's a new wooden spoon trophy. 
That's the wooden spoon trophy 

1094
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,480
getting hit over the head with a
sock of flagellants. 

1095
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,560
Yeah, I just like them. 
I and I find that hand, hand 

1096
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,320
sculpting as well lends itself 
to some loving being a cold man,

1097
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,600
which I really think I really 
like. 

1098
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:25,520
In fact, I'm sure I read an 
interview with Ellie Morrison 

1099
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:29,480
towards the end of the sort of 
hand sculpted era at GW and he 

1100
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:35,240
just said to sculpt a single 
piece miniature is a wonderful 

1101
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:42,440
experience. 
That at the end that at the end,

1102
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:44,240
I'm I'm paraphrasing, it was in 
a white dwarf. 

1103
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:45,320
It was sort of an interview with
him. 

1104
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:46,760
Yeah. 
It's I think Jervis Johnson 

1105
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:50,640
interviewed him and probably in 
about 2009 and he said to, you 

1106
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:52,560
know, to do a single piece 
minute you're talking about 

1107
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,240
dwarves and one go and step back
and look at it. 

1108
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,200
You know, if it if all goes 
well, you've created something 

1109
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:05,240
which has a sort of a unified 
kind of something like grace to 

1110
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,520
it is what he said. 
You know, like it flows right. 

1111
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:12,280
It fits together. 
It's just whereas any multi 

1112
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,920
piece miniature is perhaps he 
was talking about the technology

1113
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:17,360
of the day. 
No, I don't really think so. 

1114
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,200
I think it was a general 
comment, which I think probably 

1115
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:24,120
still stands. 
Any multi piece miniature might 

1116
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:28,240
not have that by the nature of, 
you know, especially if it's if 

1117
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,040
it's modular and you, you, you, 
you've made it to have 

1118
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,920
different, you know, to be put 
together in different kind of 

1119
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:36,520
ways. 
And the more you kind of do that

1120
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,400
and the more clunkier I think 
they look, to be honest. 

1121
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:41,400
And people will say, oh, like 
modern GW miniatures, like the 

1122
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,880
beast miniatures you've made. 
And that's what the hell. 

1123
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,440
I would tend to disagree. 
I think a single piece metal 

1124
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,680
miniature is always going to 
have something over over there 

1125
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,680
just by virtue of it all flowing
and working together in one 

1126
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:57,040
thing. 
My jockey says some hideous ones

1127
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:58,760
out there isn't there too. 
I should probably acknowledge 

1128
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,920
that. 
I don't know, but yeah, I love 

1129
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,080
this guy's, this guy. 
'S certainly not this guy's. 

1130
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:05,840
Certainly not heavier. 
Oh yes, troll. 

1131
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,360
Look at that troll Slayer. 
So, Joe, Joe Joe's holding up a 

1132
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:11,120
lovely giant Slayer with his 
ears. 

1133
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,400
Yeah. 
Twin axes, twin twin axes up 

1134
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:14,760
there. 
So wonderful. 

1135
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,440
She on a he's actually on a 
hick's base, this one Hick's 

1136
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:18,400
base. 
Nice one. 

1137
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:21,960
He's for Mordheim and I decided,
oh very good, be a bit different

1138
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:24,880
and use hex spaces. 
Yeah, I'm not impartial to a hex

1139
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:26,400
base. 
I like hex spaces. 

1140
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:28,320
Yeah, and I I something about 
them. 

1141
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,400
I mean, they sort of, they come 
from a time before me really, 

1142
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:32,440
but. 
Yeah. 

1143
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:34,280
Yeah, that's right. 
I just felt, yeah, I just felt 

1144
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,640
like they might be Yeah, what I 
was looking for. 

1145
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:39,760
So yeah. 
So sometime next August, 

1146
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:43,240
September, we'll we'll hopefully
have another event, Josh and. 

1147
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,960
Your mate. 
Everyone's, everyone, anyone is 

1148
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:47,240
welcome. 
We just want people to come 

1149
01:00:47,240 --> 01:00:49,320
along. 
We've we've now got armies to 

1150
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:50,120
lend. 
Yeah. 

1151
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:53,120
So that's a good thing, right? 
We, those of us that are 

1152
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:56,360
painting new armies have now got
armies from this year to lend. 

1153
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:02,680
And, and we hope that all kind 
of things will grow in that 

1154
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,040
fashion as well. 
So yeah. 

1155
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:06,960
Yeah. 
No, it's things are, it's good. 

1156
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:08,320
It's a good, really good thing 
to do. 

1157
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:11,960
Yeah, and hopefully, yeah, 
hopefully things sort of grow 

1158
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,240
from here. 
And I guess also, Josh, it 

1159
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,440
doesn't matter if they don't. 
It's fine. 

1160
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,520
You know, I'm sure if they 
don't, there's campaigning and 

1161
01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:23,520
big battles and stuff we can do 
even just the six of us, which 

1162
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,480
will. 
Yeah. 

1163
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:29,160
Like so the one of the guys who 
came, he's he's really, really, 

1164
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:30,840
really term. 
If you're listening to this, 

1165
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,360
this is you. 
Obviously, he's really, really 

1166
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:36,800
into that Revenge of the 
Domelord scenario from the 

1167
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,760
original. 
Oh yeah, it's just, it's just 

1168
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:40,560
great. 
Gripped by it and that's a 

1169
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:43,960
that's a fantastic scenario. 
I know Tim. 

1170
01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,120
He's got, I know Tim. 
Yeah, he's he was part of our 

1171
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:48,600
Call of the Crown challenge. 
He did a beautiful undead army. 

1172
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:51,560
Yeah, well, that's what he 
that's what he had at the 

1173
01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:56,160
tournament, right. 
So, so he's got all the undead 

1174
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:58,280
for that. 
He's got almost all the Empire 

1175
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:00,280
and. 
Oh, right. 

1176
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:02,920
You know, if we couldn't do a 
tournament next year, like for 

1177
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,480
whatever reason, Tim should 
just, we should just do that and

1178
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:07,520
just play it. 
Yeah, Beautiful demo game. 

1179
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,440
And so there's all sorts of 
stuff we can do, Josh, that 

1180
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,040
doesn't have to, you know, 
doesn't have to involve 

1181
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:13,280
tournaments and things. 
And I just. 

1182
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:15,720
That's right. 
Kind of the world's out oyster, 

1183
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:17,680
really. 
I'd love to see that. 

1184
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,320
That'd be awesome that Tim's 
undeaded, just absolutely 

1185
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:23,280
gorgeous. 
So to see his Empire stuff would

1186
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,960
be equally as nice. 
So that'd be great to see if you

1187
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,040
guys can pull that off. 
He's a good player. 

1188
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:32,120
He brought a really sharp. 
He brought a really sharp list 

1189
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,760
and won most of his games. 
And yeah, no, I if. 

1190
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:39,880
I ever get the chance I'll come 
down there so you can absolutely

1191
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:41,880
trounce me. 
Then I suppose with all these 

1192
01:02:41,880 --> 01:02:44,400
competitive lists, I'll bring a 
real soft fluffy one mate for 

1193
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:46,560
you to do. 
What you like, do what you like.

1194
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:48,760
It's funny, though. 
Did I mention like? 

1195
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,160
So I took the gym, a black gym 
of Nah, and everyone was like, 

1196
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:53,520
oh, you shit, you know, yeah, 
it's lame. 

1197
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,880
Like, that's really lame. 
I think actually items like that

1198
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:59,560
are kind of important. 
We call this hero Hammer, right?

1199
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,120
As if heroes completely dominate
the game, can't dominate the you

1200
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:05,080
can't. 
Who's going to bring like 

1201
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,200
honestly, who's going to bring 
an import dragon with a hero on 

1202
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:12,600
it when there's like a 90 point 
champion flying around like on a

1203
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:17,080
Warhawk with a black gem of Nah,
I wouldn't, I don't think anyone

1204
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,720
else would either. 
And I just I think people maybe 

1205
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:24,360
forget that that there's a lot 
of counters to yeah, that's 

1206
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,360
true. 
Powerful heroes, lots of 

1207
01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:31,680
counters to powerful heroes. 
I mean, even the fact that 

1208
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:36,200
you've only got five turns to 
use them, that means that yeah, 

1209
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,440
you're probably going to spend 
three turns getting to the 

1210
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:40,680
enemy. 
I don't know, maybe an issue 

1211
01:03:40,680 --> 01:03:43,040
fly, maybe an issue fly. 
Unless you've got a chaos Lord 

1212
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,520
on like a on a dragon, for 
instance, then you're across the

1213
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:49,440
table and you're into it. 
Maybe in turn 1, but even then, 

1214
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,120
I mean, yeah. 
So my point is I I bought this 

1215
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,120
black team of Nah and I didn't 
even use it. 

1216
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:55,520
Because yeah, no, you said that 
before. 

1217
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,920
Yeah, it's funny that. 
Yeah, no, no one even no one had

1218
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:02,680
anything that was sort of 
narrable or I had they had their

1219
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,600
tough things in units for the 
champion with the black team of 

1220
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:07,440
Nah. 
So that was kind of the the 

1221
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:11,240
stand off in some cases. 
Yeah. 

1222
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:15,160
And I think, I think, I think 
all that stuff, that sort of 

1223
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:18,880
perception that the game is kind
of like broken or not fun or 

1224
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,520
dominated by like 1000 point 
characters. 

1225
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,720
I don't see it. 
Yeah, I don't see it at all. 

1226
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:28,840
I just. 
Right, Yeah, well, Joe, it's 

1227
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:30,320
been fascinating to talk to you 
mate. 

1228
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,320
I, I really appreciate your time
coming on today. 

1229
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,080
We had a really long chat and it
was really interesting. 

1230
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,960
I, I'm really happy to have met 
you now and, and got to speak to

1231
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:39,880
you. 
But mate, look, I'm very 

1232
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,320
interested to see what happens 
in the future and how that sort 

1233
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:46,040
all pans out for you next year. 
And, but in between that to see 

1234
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:49,040
your games being played and 
photos being posted up on 

1235
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:51,120
Facebook. 
But thanks again for your time 

1236
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:52,120
again, Jake. 
Appreciate them. 

1237
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:53,040
Oh, thanks heaps, Josh.