Thank you very much again. Marcel from Snake Works Studio
for coming along to the Corona command.
Thank you very, very much for having me.
So now, Marcel, we've sort of bumped into each other online
through various points over the last few years I guess.
Yeah, I would say yes. I've seen you around a few
times. Yeah, it's always meaning to
chat and it always evades us. It has made, but I thought, I'll
now you, I'll now you down on a time in a day that we can come
together and actually start talking about.
We get there in the end, don't we?
Yeah, because I like to. I like to meet the people I
follow on YouTube or I follow through, you know, social media
when it comes to dealing with a very niche part of our hobby and
that's talking about mainly or focusing on our passions on the
sort of older aspects of GW and. Yeah, one of the best aspects, I
would say. Yeah, for us anyway.
Well, I mean, you know, we can touch on that as well.
We can expand on that a little bit later because I've got some
questions about for that about about that in particular because
I know you've been an all rounder, you sort of like the
new stuff, the old stuff and it's kind of a blend of the two
and. A piece from here and a piece
from there. I think that's right exactly,
but we'll come to that later in the show.
But first, I want everyone to know who you are and where
you're from and sort of more information about your
background as to where you live and you know, that kind of
thing. So, Marson, would you like?
To wait, where do you wanna start?
You can you can start from wherever you wanna go from,
right? But yeah, like.
Should we start at the beginning?
Go from the beginning down, down in the deep parts of of darkness
in the past? Does it all begin?
OK, I think my hobby journey begun at middle school.
So what's you around 1012? Around those years and someone
brought in the obligatory White Dwarf magazine to school.
Great. And I can distinctly remember
seeing the Ultramarines tactical squad in there.
And I thought, you know, that was it.
That was the day I thought, you know, I have to have these.
I don't know what they are, but I have to have them right, so
that's around issue 1. 50 that's around about there.
Early 90s, Yeah. Somewhere around there, Yeah.
OK. And interesting story about
that, looking at those squad of marines and a UFO incident, but
I won't go into anymore. I think there was five of them,
isn't there? On the left hand side of the
page? That's how my mind remembers it.
It might be wrong, but in my head the Sergeant still has a
power fist. But I thought the Sergeant with
the power fist was in the Devastator squad.
But I won't be misremembering something.
Yeah, they both had power fist because the one on the tactical
squad is without a helmet, and I think the helmet's actually
strapped to his side on his like his side belt.
And the Devastator squad, of course, had the side with the
helmet and painted red because he's a Devastator and he had the
fist pump up in the air kind of thing.
That's the one. That's why I'm sort of getting a
bit confused. So, yeah, definitely the first
one. Definitely the bare face on that
one. Right.
Right.
OK. From.
There. It's like I'm gonna get some of
these, so I take it 40K with your first love then.
Yes, definitely. And then but the way into it, I
think I found out you bought them from Games Workshop.
Didn't know where the shop was and then found it on a shady
back street in Norwich. I went into there and then I was
there with my cousin and my mom and I was like, I want this
tactical squad. I found the box and everyone
said it's too expensive, you don't want those straight away.
The cost then came up and that was back then and they were
probably quite cheap then I'd imagine.
Yeah, I don't know how much in pounds, but it would be what,
£15 or something like that. I reckon it was about 15 quid,
yeah. Possibly 10 but then I was shown
the alternative option which was Space Crusade and everyone says
there's loads more in there for the money.
So that was where it really started.
Gotcha. So I think we bought Space
Crusade, I can't remember how much that was probably around 20
pounds, £30 and then took that home and then proceeded to build
all those models badly. You know you don't cut them off
the sprue at that age, do you just?
Tear them off, breaking everything.
If teeth are required, then teeth will be used, yeah, to do
that. You know, that's how all the
bayonets off the bolters have been twisted off.
You know, stuff that'll make you cringe nowadays.
But I mean, you don't know any better, do you?
You just don't know. Built all those and then painted
them really badly. I remember having two or three
paints and even stealing my mom's nail Polish to paint them
with nail Polish. That's it.
You. Want to nail Polish?
Yeah, colored nail. But I've completely forgotten
about it until now and I remember getting it everywhere.
I remember the smell of it. Bizarre you would have.
You would have got quite high painting those miniatures and
made of that. And that might explain a few
things nowadays. And do you do psychosis like a
like an awe weird boy or something?
Yeah, that's it. But yeah, they were good times.
And reading white dwarf magazines in front of the fire,
probably using the fire to convert models.
Fire. That's interesting.
I can melt something with that. There's no structure to your
hobby at that time, is there? It's just messing about with
everything. So did you play space reset with
your friends or did you have some kind of club or something
like that to get involved with at that time?
No, no. I had a best friend who lived
opposite me. I took it all over to his house,
set it all up. We went through the rules and
after about 10 minutes he just said I don't get it all right.
So we we never played it. So I always wanted to play it,
but never actually played it. Yeah.
So it was just all about the miniatures for me, really right
up up all the way up until about fourth edition when I sort of
came back to the hobby, right? OK, like I've never played
space, we saved myself either, but it seems more a little bit
more complex than here. Request from just looking at the
components, especially the components you had like A and
you know again I've played it, but you've got like some kind of
weapons tracking kind of console that you put the weapons in and
you've got special cards that you can load you can load at
your entire squad before you even take the mission out.
So yeah, it seems more complex than just picking a character
from her request and you know away you go kind of thing.
It seems more, I don't know, intuitive to younger a younger
audience, but space we say it seems a little bit more in depth
in some some. Involved, yeah, I think.
I think it was all the blip tokens that threw us.
Yeah, that's that would be one, wouldn't it?
Yeah. Line of sight and things like
that, which I think for youngsters it's a little bit
more difficult to get your head around right.
So did you ever get back to buying that box of tactical
altering? No, I never got that one, I
think. I then found the Devastator
squad. You know, when they had the
shoulder mounted. All right.
Yeah. And I liked all the they had
little black flames painted on the barrels, didn't they, Of the
missile launcher and things. And I thought that was the best
thing I'd ever seen in my life at that age.
So I bought one of those, tried to stick metal parts together
with polystyrene cement. Because I wasn't allowed super
glue. Because apparently I would stick
myself to the wall. Yeah, yeah.
So that all went really well. Painted those terribly.
Don't even know if I ever finished anything to be honest.
It was all just painting over bare metal, you know?
No priming. Hey, just assembling things as
you do. I've heard that's a thing.
Like some pro painters. Oh, prime miniatures.
It's a thing, apparently. So there you go.
Maybe the paints are better nowadays.
Maybe. Comes down to the paint you're
using. It seems not such an absurd
notion that, you know, people don't prime miniatures.
I've seen it done once when I worked in the UK and in the
store at the Oxford store, some guy just pulled the miniature,
had the blister and just started painting it.
So yeah, maybe it's just maybe there's some secret to it.
You save some time. I did read somewhere that you
get better detail if you don't do it.
You know, give it like the most basic priming but.
I wouldn't dare try it myself because all the paint would come
beading off. Well, I think the.
Clean others. Try that one.
The main problem with me would be for metal miniatures is not
being able to see everything clearly like white allows you a
nice sort of blanket. Give you a nice guide coat,
don't you? Yeah, yeah, it's just nice to
pick out all the details. Whereas it just metal, it
sometimes can seem a little bit obscure because of the
reflections and that kind of thing in the middle.
There you go. Reminds me of my first argument
in the Games Workshop shop. They had some Space Marines in
the rotating glass cases they used to have.
Yeah, and they'd had a tactical squad and a Rhino, all painted
silver. No details or anything, just
everything was painted flat silver.
And a kid was trying to tell me, you know, they just haven't
painted them yet. And I was like, no.
Those plastic bits on there have been painted silver because
they're not silver out of the packet, He was adamant, but it
was all just metal that hadn't been painted yet.
But looking back, I wonder who was right.
I think I was right because I'm pretty sure you don't get silver
plastic arms coming with those tactical squads.
And no. Yeah, it's bizarre how
completely forgotten about these things until you start talking
about it again. Memories coming back from like
20 years ago. It's bizarre, yeah.
It's lovely though, isn't it? Like that kind of, yeah, going
back and yeah, the more I talk about it with people in
interviews or whatever, or just chatting with people, it sort of
starts coming back a little bit because it's, yeah, it is a long
time ago, but you do have some fond memories there.
In that time I've slept since then, So yeah, it's been a lot
of beers between then and now, that's for sure.
Some nail Polish views, yeah, well that's actually that's a
thing. Maybe nail Polish and especially
the the sparkly nail Polish, that could be a thing that could
be a trend that could be happening in miniature painting
at some point in the future. I think that's a that's a nice
one. It's like rock hard.
It's basically got the still mania philosophy there.
You don't need to give it three coats of varnish.
Basically that nail Polish will just stay in there forever, you
know, so you. Wouldn't get that off in a
hurry, would you? Yeah, I think it's really thick
as well, so that's cool. Maybe when all these people have
these miniatures, they're trying to strip them, aren't they?
And they're like, there's some weird paint I can't get off
here. That's the nail Polish that's
Marcels Marcels space. Crusade Mild ones, Yeah, the
plastic will melt before the nail Polish, yeah.
Do you still have the Space Crusades set?
No. Along with some other things.
Around that time I was then getting out of the hobby.
Probably a couple of years later.
We've skipped over a bit, but we can go to there if you want.
A friend came round and I was tidying my room and it all went
in a couple of black bin liners. Yeah, just don't want this
anymore. I'm too old for this.
You know how it is. I'm done with this.
This isn't cool anymore. It's all going in the bin,
right? Well, I hate myself for that.
Yeah, well, yeah, I've. I've chucked things out the bin.
Not because I'm just too old for it.
I think I was just like, just just never thought I'd ever play
it again. Never thought.
Yeah, you just move on. Don't you think that that place
is done? Yeah, exactly, mate.
So yeah, we've all been there. Right.
Yeah, there's a bit of that, yeah.
All that money's worth is just gone straight in the bin, down
the skip, somewhere down the down the landfill.
So you could dig it up. There's probably some of this
stuff still in an old land somewhere.
Believe that now that null Polish would preserved it, mate.
I think would entomb them. Be a little time capsule.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I hope you get.
I hope. I really hope you get to play it
and. I I have since bought another
copy, it's in the garage in the box on the To Do List, which
sadly is getting longer. Every week you add to these
things now so quickly, don't you?
That's true, mate. You do.
I'm trying to stop.
The older you get the breaks on there.
I just can't stop writing things down.
Okay. I've got one of these that can
be done, but they're not getting knocked off the list anywhere
near as fast as they get added now.
So yeah, I think it's a case for me, maybe yourself and myself
that just, you know, that's like we've got enough stuff, we've
accumulated, we've gone through the accumulation of things.
It's now she's sitting down and getting them done and finished
and having the satisfaction of and the pride of seeing all of
it painted in a cabinet or on a games table at some point, so.
That's the goal, isn't it? That is the goal.
It does look nice in a cabinet. Yeah, all of mine has all been
disassembled from the move. Everything's still in the
garage, right? That's right, because I.
Know you. I know you.
Yeah, that's right. But let's go back.
Let's go back to. Let's go back again.
Let's rewind back to when you had Space Crusade.
You didn't get to play that. You eventually got the
Devastator squad from Alter Marines.
Was it always a path into one 40K?
Like, did you play demos at the store?
Were you playing actively playing 40K at some point?
Tell us more about your previous sort of gaming history.
Didn't play at all until second edition, so second edition would
have come out. I had the first time we played,
I had a small Imperial Guard army and my friends came around.
He brought his orcs and he allied himself with my Space
Marine player friend. So we had a little sort of game
on my kitchen table. This was high school, so I don't
know how old I was. Then Mid 90s.
When did Second Edition come out?
About 93. Yeah, it must have been around
then sometime, yeah. So we had a game on the table.
No idea how the rules worked. You know, there was no missions
being played. It was literally just everyone
trying to kill everything. I think that's how you play when
you're young, don't you? Yeah mate, that's good.
There's no structure to this game, it's just taking turns to
kill each other. And I remember a Gretchen
exploding my Lehman Russ tank and it flipping over and killing
a load of other people. Because you had the big damage
cards, didn't you? For second edition, the
vehicles, yeah. That's right.
You had to roll on some sort of table, and I think we got the
worst possible role. Well, I'm just trying.
How did he do that? Like he's only armed with an
auto gun, unless your friend. Yeah, like a missile.
It was definitely. It was definitely an auto gun.
It might have even been the space crusade Gretchen model
that did it. Yeah, the blunderbuss.
Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah.
Close range. Byron.
Distinctly Remember? I'm sure he hit the track or
something and it was the worst possible outcome and it flipped
over and landed on a bunch of other other things and killed
those Crack shot. Nice one.
But you know, we probably played it completely wrong.
It was probably an impossible shot.
But everyone cheats when you're that age.
Oh, I've got to sit. Yeah, 66.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he's dead.
He's definitely dead. But.
No, that was good times. We built all our scenery at
school and we shouldn't have been in our art lessons.
I remember that using ground up pastels as weathering powder,
that yeah, that was probably the best scenery I ever made.
It looked really realistic. Nowadays I can't get that same
effect going on, but I think it's because we had the time.
No pressure. Yeah, just messing around with
whatever bits you've got. It had that nice homemade lip to
it, you know, and were your family supportive of your hobby?
No, I mainly spent a lot of time with my cousin and he thought it
was terrible waste of money, right?
Didn't understand it at all. Until I got him to paint a Space
Marine once. And then he loved it.
And then he went and got his own.
You know how it is, You have a go and then you're like,
actually, this is pretty fun. My mom was indifferent, I think.
I think she just thought it was a load of toy soldiers, waste of
money. They were always seen as
expensive toy soldiers I think, but.
You know when you got your birthday money and your
Christmas money, that's what you spent it on?
That's what you wanted? Yeah, that's it.
And how that feels. Never how they're feeling about
it now. You're still doing this so many
years on and you've got your YouTube channel and everything.
What's their reaction? Yeah, yeah.
I don't think they understand it, but the other half, she did
a bit of voice over work for me the other day and she really,
really enjoyed it. She wants to do some more so.
Yeah. Oh, that'd be good.
Getting hair in fold. The little end's still a bit too
young. He's not too bothered yet.
He just breaks stuff. And he's.
Yeah. My other daughter, she's a bit
older now. She tried to paint some.
I called them goats. I don't know what they were.
They were like a blue and white deer thing for fantasy.
Can't remember what they were. They look like deer or goats,
right? Yeah.
And they were like a white color with like a blue shade.
And she wanted some of them to paint, did a few base coats, and
then was done with those. So they're all in a box
somewhere, OK Don't know what they are.
They'll turn. They'll turn up.
One day I'm sure someone will know what they are.
I'm sure there'll be a law video about that at some point, but
yeah, so yeah, it's just me doing it and everyone else just
watching me do it really at home, just going along with it.
Yeah, but there's no one says no.
Everyone's happy for me to do it so.
That's it, mate. You know, it's our, yeah, it's
our break away from everything else that's going on.
And if you can incorporate your hobby with your family, it's
even better to win. Win.
And especially the wife mate. Yeah, if you get the wife on
board, wow. I don't know.
I don't know how I can sell that to my wife personally.
Voice over work. I don't know.
Yeah, have a go. They like it, I think.
I think they enjoy it. I mean, they get a bit scared to
begin with. I think one of the comments
someone wrote from that video, the first one she did was, is
that an AI voice you've used? She was a little bit, you know,
put out. She's like, right, I'm gonna do
a better job. Next time after that, well, I
thought I'd get my wife involved, like maybe doing like
miniature reviews or something like that.
Because if you've got a female and you know an attractive one
at that, presenting something on YouTube, well, your views are
gonna skyrocket, aren't they? There is a big element of that
in there, isn't there? I'm just not.
I'm just not pretty enough, I'm afraid.
So I'll just make up on here. I think maybe in a few years
when all this AI takes over, you'll be able to have a big
filter. Yeah, just pretend you're
someone you're not. That's true.
That's true, Okay. Well, that's good.
At least you got some. You got your family involved and
that kind of thing. But are you actively gaming like
nowadays? Not.
I think the last time we gained was pre COVID, We had a little
Necromunta campaign going on and then COVID hit and then it all
seemed to stop from there. Well, I had the baby and then we
moved house and this all been very difficult from then just to
be able to get the time to play a game really.
But I'm sure that time will come back when he's a bit older and
he's off at school and things you need and you don't have to
be looking after them 24/7, they are able to just sit in a room
and enjoy their own toys about breaking everything and being a
constant worry, you know, I mean, you have to keep your eye
on them all the time when they're really little, don't
they too? And then when they grow up a
bit, they're away playing so you can then get a bit of your life
back. Yeah, when?
When they start playing again. Crawl and walk.
That's the dangerous. That's the dangerous time.
Yeah. That that's the stage we're in.
Yeah, we're in that running around, pulling it.
He found my tub of paper. Just yanking them all out.
I heard the crash. They gave the tips.
My son's been brewing because, like, he'll even come in this
room and even when he was a toddler and he would come in
this room, he wouldn't touch anything.
It's amazing. It really.
I'm worried. Yeah, it's really why I'm asking
my wife. I have to get a lock to put the
lock on the door, but I have to put it right high so he can't
get to it. And I was really worried about
this room cuz all my stuff's in here and all my miniatures.
How old is he? Well, now he's 7, so I'm talking
about how do you find it? Now he's 7.
Is he any different with it now? Not at all.
He just knows this is Papa's room and Papa's miniatures here,
and I'm always painting in here and that kind of thing.
But other kids, like friends of his that have been here, they'll
just like, they'll just run around the house and they would
just come in here and just pick up stuff and throw it around or
whatever. My son is really.
He's a bit probably like me, I think, yeah, in the same kind of
character like he does not. He gets it.
He gets it.
It's just not the same thing he only did, like when he was
really small. I remember having my dwarfs and
I just finished painting and I put them on the shelf.
And he very cutely grabbed a whole like, grabbed A fistful of
them and he turned around, said Here Papa, here's your
miniatures. Ah, thanks mate.
Thank you very much. All scratched.
They metal, yeah, Yeah. But it was.
Really cute of him to do that. But yeah, and when we reminds me
of the time we went to Warham, took my other half there and
they gave her one of the demo games.
Yeah, but they do. And they said we were in the
movement phase and they said your squad there has to move 6
inches then I've never seen it happen before.
She just sort of just pushed them all along with her hand
also bent over and slid and scraped along the table to move
the six inches. And I just thought most people
pick them up, but it was just, you know, push them along.
Like those penny shoving machines at the arcades.
I just saw the girl's face doing the intro game.
There's some repainting and fixing going on there, but I
think you just assume everyone knows, don't you?
Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, until you meet someone who's never done it, has no
experience with it, and they treat it very differently.
Yeah, it's funny now you mentioned the Warhammer world.
Like, I haven't been to a game store like a Warhammer Games
workshops. They're called Warhammer stores
now. But I haven't been to one in
over a decade. And I recently got to go to one
in Tokyo because Tokyo here in Japan have a Warhammer Cafe.
And I was. Kind of curious and I thought,
yeah, let's do it, let's go down.
That sounds good. That sounds.
Good. Yeah.
Well, I very rarely get to go to Tokyo anyway, and this is the
first time in several years I've got to go.
So me and my wife, I dragged my wife.
Are you a long way from there? Yeah, I'm about 100 clicks, 100
KS away from Tokyo, central Tokyo, and I had to go there for
a sort of a catch up with friends and that kind of thing.
And we went there and I had a look at and it's yeah, it's a
pretty impressive kind of display.
They had lots of tables set up and and lots of painted
miniatures and these huge Titans and stuff like that.
And I could really appreciate the the painting and skill that
went into, you know, the dedication going into painting,
a lot of the stuff. And it's all done by Japanese
modelers and painters, which is cool.
They've actually got their name, Clark like near the miniature.
So you can, you can. It references the artist to the
work and that kind of stuff, which is really cool.
Yeah. So it's a bit like a mini museum
and the cafe is not nothing to talk about.
I mean, it's just a couple of sofa chairs and a hole in the
wall with no one attending it. It was nothing really special,
but yeah. It was interesting to walk into
a Warhammer store and see what it's like now and it's.
And you know, I always think about the time when I went to
the UK in 94 and 1st going to a Games Workshop where the colors
are bright. You know the that was the best.
That was the best time for the sports.
I think nothing can be that experience.
I mean you had the the staff members hounding you.
You know like wow, you know what do you want?
You know what do you what do you want to buy today?
Can I interest you in something like this?
You want to demo game or something like that now?
The whole vibe of the place was completely different compared to
what it is now, and I'm sure they were all sitting around
smoking when I went in there around that time.
What? Just chatting and smoking?
Yeah. Well, the thing I found out was
when I walked in, there was two guys, two staff members.
One was Japanese, one was like a foreigner, or maybe like half
Japanese or whatever. He was on his phone just looking
at his messages and talking to the other guy.
Now one of the the Japanese guy said hello and acknowledged me
and that kind of thing. I said hello but they've got 4
demonstration tables right now. I've never played 40K War Cry A
to Sigma Kill team, never played those games.
Now, as a staff member, you would think that they would walk
up to you and say, hey, you know, would you want a
demonstration game? You know, yeah, it's a
completely different atmosphere now.
There's nothing, there's no kids in there.
There's no sort of energy. It's all about, you know, this
is basically a stockroom and you want to buy something or what
kind of thing. Now look at that nice cabinets
of dioramas and stuff in there. But it's just soulless.
There's no, so it's deeply lit and dark.
No, it was fairly well. It wasn't dim or anything like
that. It wasn't dingy or anything like
that. It got fairly decent lighting.
It's got a massive TV screen on the back of the wall there, you
know, showcasing the latest 40K tenth edition trailer and that
kind of stuff. But you know, it's just a
completely different atmosphere. And I always heart back to the
days of the 90s where, you know, when you walked into a Games
Workshop store, you had some kind of experience and every
time you left it, you left with a bag with.
Your miniatures that you bought that you really wanted to get,
or you had that demo game, or you saw that new product, and I
just don't get that same feeling now that when people enter a
Warhammer store, they're just not getting that same
experience. Would you feel that's the same
for you In parts? Yes, I missed the way you would
go in and you would see all the old box sets with the artwork on
them. I used to love that artwork that
they had. I thought, you know, it gave you
that wow factor. You looked at the box and you
thought there's a model of that thing in the art.
That is amazing, but now it's just a photo of the thing, isn't
it? I think that's the thing I find
very different. Yeah, so I missed that.
I miss all the blister packs racked up on the wall.
Yeah, you know you'd be rifling through those trying to find
your assault cannon Terminator. It would always be the one at
the back. That's right.
Yeah, yeah, you need to have to pour over it to make sure it's
been cast OK or they put the right bits in the box.
Yeah, but yeah, they were brilliant days.
I loved those days. And the cabinets.
I feel the cabinets were a lot fuller then with miniatures, but
I don't remember if we got the big upsell back then or not.
I don't know if they just saw us as youngsters, so it wasn't
worth trying on, but I get that all the time in the shop now.
I really, I can't really get. Yeah, I can't.
I just can't go in there because they just jump on you straight
away. You know what you painting this
weekend and you explain it to them and they're like, have you
looked at this? I'm like, yeah, yeah, I've seen
all that. I don't need to look at that.
Thanks. You want one of these?
No, thank you. Know you know what you're in
there for. But do they know you?
Do they know you by name? They say.
Hey master, how you going? Kind of thing.
Is it more of a person? A couple of them knew me, but
you know, I stopped going in there after a while to be
honest. But yeah, there's there was one
main reason I didn't really want to go in there, but don't know
if it's really suitable for public broadcasts, yeah.
But you know, back in the 90s you had like someone that you
knew who was the best painter that you'd go to ask advice for.
You knew there was a guy who was like the main gamer and that you
could ask for tactics or you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah, we'd look. We'd all be in there.
We'd all going in on a Thursday night on the games nights and
there'd be loads of people in there playing around the tables.
There'd be people at the painting table.
People I still know nowadays painting stuff.
Back then, you know, they had all the painting areas set up
and it was a hive of activity. I think is the phrase, isn't it?
Yeah, man, nice. And it was great.
And playing games every Thursday that would have been around,
Yeah, set between 2nd and 4th edition, I would say.
So I don't know what the years are.
And then, yeah, we sort of ended up where we are now.
It just seems a little bit more. I find it a bit too clinical in
there for me. Right.
Yeah. I I sort of feel the same way,
but then it's just not my. I'm just not the target audience
anymore. I'm not the market.
They're sort of. I think that is it, isn't it?
They're looking for now and I just don't know who the market
is. You know it's not it's obviously
not young kids because in, but apparently it is though, isn't
it? If you we I don't Have you you
seen the painting phase? Have you seen their YouTube
channel with peachy and the like?
No, no, no. They had a chap on there.
I think was one of their product creators or something.
I forget what his job title was. And they had a big funnel and
they would put all their, I think they called it the funnel.
They put all their efforts into bringing people in from the most
sort of generic end of the hobby before they would get.
So yeah, apparently it was all the new starters and youngsters
and things like that. But like you say to me, I think
it's too expensive for your youngsters and your new your new
starters. But I think, I think the whole
idea of like you know selling the magazine with a sprue of
models, you know that that kind of approach like the old days,
they did that as well. And I think that's a wonderful
way of accessing and having it distributed in places where
there are no game stores or. It's the first contact that
people have because when we got into the, into the, you know,
the into Games Workshop, there was always that first contact,
whether it was space, we say here request White Gateway, as
it were. That's right.
It sort of got you in. And I think they're trying to do
that. Again, I think they're trying to
get people into the hobby through accessing ways of doing
that through news agencies, through, you know, department
stores where they sell magazines and that kind of thing in
bookstores. And I think it's a really good
way because that way you get exposure to toy soldiers, you've
got people who might have been interested in putting together
model kits or they've seen the four Ek or Warhammer computer
games, and now they've got some kind of reference, cross
reference to that to a physical. You know, modeling kind of
hobby. And I want, you know, I
generally want, you know, sometimes I sort of, you know,
feel like I'm sort of giving GW a bad, bad time, but I really
generally want them to succeed because they're they're the sort
of street, High Street kind of presence that gets people into
tabletop gaming. Maybe not for life, maybe just
for a short time, maybe they go on to other things or whatever,
but it's it's really good that we have.
Sort of. Our war gaming ambassador, if
you like, in the market. Well, if they succeed, then we
all succeed, don't we? Exactly.
That's it. So if they're doing well, we see
the growth. Yeah, and everyone's on board
with it. Yeah, yeah.
Because. But no, no, I like seeing it.
We saw it in hairdressers the other day.
It was the strangest place I've ever seen it.
Yeah, there was a men's barbers and they had the rack.
You know the Games Workshop rack with a few models on?
Dead set in a Barber. Yeah.
Wow.
So they get in them everywhere nowadays.
Yeah, amazing, isn't it? But yeah, it's it's an
interesting time because there's so much competition now.
Like, it's not like back in the 90s where you had maybe D&D
Battle, Tech, Games Workshop and a few other fringe kind of
games. Now it's really big business
for, you know, big companies who take this very seriously, who
spend an awful lot of money in production, development, you
know, staff, all the overhead costs and everything like that.
You know, it's huge. Now there's an absolutely huge
company. It's just like global, aren't
you? Yeah, so yeah.
I think my big question is though, like if you had no idea
any of this existed, where would you tell someone to start?
Say your son wanted to start 40K, They had no idea about any
of it. Where would you say you need to
start with this? What is the start nowadays?
I think, I think for me it's kind of like those small
skirmish game type starter sets that they have.
You know what I mean? Like it's everything you get in
the box and that's how I started.
I got everything in the box and it gave me the rules.
I got miniatures. The tape measures the dice,
everything you know, and that sort of forms the sort of first
level, so to speak, where? They give you the painting
guide. They, you know, they give you
the basic core rules of the game and if you sort of get hooked,
you're hooked. If you're not, then you put it
on the shelf and forget about it.
The second edition 40K box is what you're describing well.
Yeah, interestingly enough, and listening to Rick Priestly now,
because he's doing a lot more interviews in the last couple of
years, especially over COVID and that kind of thing, there's one
really interesting one on the cast dice.
Podcast, and he talked about that specifically.
He said the epic space marine, the blue box, the 2nd edition
one was the first of the prototype that they had
everything in the box. You know, you terrain, that was
brilliant. Well, it's gorgeous.
It's my favorite all time game. We're going to get to that
because I know you're sort of expressing a lot of interest in
your channel and your social media about Epic Space Marine.
And I still, yeah, yeah, I've got a copy under the bed, ready
to go under. The bed, mate.
I've got a copy under my bed actually, but it sounds like a
good idea. It's not my, it's a few bits
missing. But they're easy to find, mate,
easy to find. But like that was kind of the
predecessor, if you like. To everything that followed,
they just bark at it. That was the first big box
starter. That was it.
And that's how it all rolled out from there on.
OK, OK. Rick had a big part to play in
that, you know, in that and now that's like an industry
standard. Even Warlord Games or any any
kind of big gaming company have that sort of everything you need
in the box to get you started, you know what I mean?
I never knew that. I never knew that.
So it's always really interesting.
So what was that? What was different about that
one over the previous one? Was it second edition or First
edition Space Marine with the Dark Angels on the front?
You're right, I think was it. And now that you said that, I
think maybe it's the 1st edition.
Sorry, not second edition. Maybe it's first edition because
you had the polystyrene buildings, you had the Space
Marines in it. And did you have a Warlord
Titan? I don't know.
No, no, no.
That Warlord Titan was the blue box.
Yeah, the 2nd edition. So I'm sorry, but I know first
edition had a lot of stuff in it, but I don't know whether
yeah, I've. Never seen in that box.
Me either. I've never seen it either.
I'm very fascinated to know what it's like because I know some
people like the day. They're quite expensive, aren't
they? Love it, but yeah, it seems a
lot more crunchy than the 2nd edition one.
From what I've seen or read about in old White Doors and
that kind of thing, the 2nd edition sort of streamlined
everything, made it faster to play, and you could get a game
in six hours rather than 10 hours in the 3rd edition, from
what I've heard anyway, from people who've played it.
But you can finish it in one day as a place you're having to
sleep in between, yeah? Yeah, but yeah, getting anything
in the box, I think the starter sets for the current game
systems they sell now are the gateway into.
You know, establishing yourself in the hobby, painting,
collecting, you know, playing, that kind of thing.
What's the other one? Underworlds, the Underworlds
game. I really like that the board
game, that everything in the set, you just by the start of
set you've got 2 factions and away you go.
And I think that's a great everything's push fit, which is
good. You push fit the models, no glue
required. And in seconds, yeah.
Is that the same as war cry or is that different?
War Cry is different. War Cry is the is the tactical
skirmish game where you have like a war band each.
This is Underworlds is basically a self-contained board game
where you have a faction, you know there's two factions in the
set and then you have a set of cards and it's a really
interesting, well designed board game.
I've enjoyed playing that as A and I don't even feel like I'm
in the age of Sigma. Universe I just feel like it's
just a fantasy board game, just playing a game.
Yeah, that's it. You know, you can sort of just,
you know, sort of separate yourself from you don't.
You don't have to sell the setting to someone then.
Yeah, you just don't play the game well.
And and and we're going to get to the 40K law like that you
specialize in. I'm not interested in the law.
I don't really care. Like I just.
I picked up the 2nd edition's epic set and that was kind of my
foray into 40K. And I picked up the armies of
the Imperium, and in there there's a Bill King story with
the classic Adrian Smith artwork of the Emperor, Horace and
Sanguinius. And that story was it.
I just read that and I thought that was in that box.
Was it? That was in that box and that
encapsulated everything. All I needed to know.
That's everything I needed to know.
And I didn't even know anything apart from that.
All the other supplements had all the other factions and you
had the background to it. You know, cuz I didn't play Rd.
Trader, I didn't know anything about much about the 40K
factions or whatever, but Space Marine gave me everything I
needed to know and it gave me the flavor of the army.
That was the first ID version of it all I think, wasn't it?
That was when they really started to tidy it up.
Yeah, yeah, everything made a bit more sense.
Everything, yeah. Everything was self-contained.
It wasn't spread out, you know, several.
Several articles in White Dwarf magazine and that kind of thing.
So they had their direction, I think, at that point.
Yeah, very much so. Very much so, yeah.
But yeah, I mean, I could talk about Epic all day and I love
it. Absolutely love it.
But then I don't need to know about the law.
I mean the law. Is not so important to me, you
know, I mean, I just love the faction I'm playing.
I can get into that. I can get involved with, you
know, the, the aesthetics of the models, the and that's and the
game play is really important. The law never has been really
all that important to me, to be honest.
Now it's just seasoning flavoring.
For you is that more important to know?
Is the law more important than the game play?
No, no. It's always the models For me
first, right, Just models 1st and then.
I think when you're a youngster you then read the law.
You know, for something to do, you read in your books.
But for me it was always the models 1st and then reading the
law when you don't have models to paint and that would make you
want more models to sort of build upon itself I think.
Yeah, yeah, I think I'm, I'm the same.
I'm, I'm always into the heavy metal pages, looking at the the
figures painted the models themselves and the law sort of
came a little bit later. Now that I've got back into the
last 4-5 years ago when I started getting back into the
Games Workshop, you know, nostalgia games and that kind of
thing. And I actually started reading
the law in the books and that kind of thing, and reading how
good and how influential people like Bill King was to shaping
the worlds and the characters and the background and that kind
of thing to Warhammer and 40K. Have they changed much of that
story of his? I don't know.
I really don't know. I don't.
Care. Because as far as I know, this
whole book series of the horrors Heresy is just going on and on
and all, like a days of our live saga.
It's dragged a bit, yeah. It's dragged a bit.
I think we're finally, yeah. But it started off very strong.
We had a bit of a dip in the middle there.
But I'm staggered like. People can sort of recite that
stuff off the top of their head. There's a guy Benjamin from 90%
geek YouTube channel. He can just recite that stuff
off the top of his head. And, you know, I don't know how
he does it, but some people are really into the law, you know,
like they're really, it's like it's like anything like if you
follow any kind of series or novel or whatever, or some
certain writer, you really get involved with it.
But I can't. Yeah.
No, I think I just saw. I just read them as books.
I used to read them on my lunch breaks at work.
Right. So that's how I got through
those and read all the books. And there were a few in there
that I have to admit, I really struggled to get through.
There were some good ones. But you know, like you say, I
couldn't recite any of them. I can just remember, you know,
that was a good one. That wasn't so good.
The old ones. I like the Old Hammer, Old
Hammer Publications. And now that the Is It the old
Hammer Fiction podcast, am I getting that right?
Sorry, Pass. Are you going back to the sort
of time when they were doing like the dark feature novels and
things like that and that sort of era?
Yeah, that kind of era. And so like listening to those
on, like podcasts. There's a podcast out here.
And I'm gonna get it here, The All Hammer Fiction podcast, I've
got to write Okay Louis Davies. He does.
He reads these stories from that particular era.
So, like Ian Watson. Bill King.
Oh okay. So like a read along.
Yeah, basically he just read. He's trained in theater and I
think he's a. Oh, wow.
A theater teacher or English teacher at school.
He's a teacher. And he he discovered that he, he
loves reading and he loves all these old books.
That's kind of his thing. That's his niche kind of thing.
And he started reading. I'm going to have to have that
on the background now. You've got to listen to it mate,
because you'll love it. It's got like the death wing
story. Yeah, that sounds great.
I've never, I've never read that one.
You've got to listen to. I mean, that's how that's where
the Death Wing were like Apache Indians, mate, And they were
just like brilliant. Yeah, I'll never forget.
And this is the time when they released a plastic Terminator
set. Now this is 2000 and I don't
know eight. Which ones?
The ones they had in the. The multi part, the multi part
ones, I didn't like those ones, they looked weird.
They do look weird now. I prefer the 2nd Edition Space
Hulk, kind of. Plastic ones, you know?
But I got that set. My friend gave it to me.
I wasn't big into 40K, but I thought, oh that's cool, I'll
take these up for golden demons. So I did them in the traditional
stage. Did you win?
Well, this is the thing. This is the controversy, all
right? This is what sort of got me out
of playing. Like entering Golden Demon.
I did them. I'd actually sculpted all the
feathers and long hair and I made them like the real
traditional. Old school old hammer.
Dark angels. Definitely it didn't it.
Didn't go down too well, mate, because the judge, they looked
at it and thought, well, this ain't, this ain't like modern
you know, dark angels, mate, This is like old Hammer.
They didn't. They probably didn't even know
when was this. When did you?
When did you enter these? 2006, two thousand.
I don't know. It was when that that box was
released. So I spent ages like, you know,
modeling them up and converting them and that kind of thing and
painting them. I really enjoyed doing as a
project as the one off project actually turned into a dark
Angel army later. But yeah, it's it's, it's it's a
shame that they changed. That's all that that's all
changed. They've just, they've binned all
that and now it's just like just, you know, vanilla looking.
Death wing. There's no sort of, because they
all had like American Indian names and that kind of stuff.
Yeah, they they, they had a lot of face paint and things like
that. I remember that there was big
feathers. And yeah, they were, they were
nice. Yeah, they were cool that maybe
into it. Yeah.
I was going to say were they, did they have to get away from
that because they were worried about, you know, cultural
appropriation and all these things?
No, it's just the aesthetic. Or did they just think it wasn't
cool anymore? Probably, yeah.
They just as they do, they change things from, you know,
every now and again. And it just didn't fit because
then it was like and at that stage I did go to a store.
And play a game and you couldn't use miniatures.
They weren't selling at the time, so you couldn't.
I couldn't take more classic Kev Adams Rogue Trader Org Army
there because the manager would say mate, sorry, we don't sell
those models. You've got to pack them up and
go back home. That's dead set, mate.
Dead set. No.
Bullshit. I never understood this.
I never understood this reasoning.
Yeah, because if someone likes them, you still have to buy the
paints and things to paint them, yeah?
But, and you might buy more. Okay.
They're not commercially available, but boy, boy, they'll
raise a lot of more interest than the like the the sort of
current stuff people go. Yeah, I remember those.
I got those when I was a kid or whatever.
But yeah, there was a real killjoy feeling in those stores
at that time. It's like they were trying to
ignore their own history at that point.
Like, we don't talk about where we came from.
Yeah, the concept. Passed down some kind of law and
that was it. But yeah, but I think we're
getting back now. I think they're letting it seep
in a little more now. I'm starting to see the old
stuff sort of be at least they give it the old nod and
reference here and there as opposed to completely ignoring
it like they used to. Yeah.
Yeah, maybe. Maybe it's confined to the Black
Library now and so now you know certain parts of the law or
history are sort of coming out of the Black Library bit by bit
and sitting it out into the interwebs and letting everybody
have a go at it. But yeah, it's always
interesting to see and hear people who are interested.
Like 1 gentleman joined our Discord group.
He's very young. He never got into.
Old Hammer or you know, even, you know, 90s gaming.
But he's, he was quite interested in it, in it, and he
really wanted to know more about it and that kind of stuff.
So it's nice to hear younger gent, like people who are 20 or
30 years younger than me, who is now discovering it and sort of
quite keenly interested into knowing more about it and
playing these old games and collecting the miniatures and
stuff, which is really cool. It must be interesting because,
you know, like you say, a lot of these new players nowadays have
no idea. They've never seen this side of
it. You know, they've never seen the
models from 20 years ago. And unless you're shown them
yeah, or stumble across them somewhere, you would never know
they exist. Yep, that's right.
And then when you find some, you're down the rabbit hole,
aren't you? Yep, that's right, man.
Yeah, So and then and then your wallet is empty.
Yeah, for the rest of time. Very true indeed.
The prices on eBay nowadays.
Are they shooting up still? I remember when I looked at a
few things and they were quite pricey.
Yeah. Well, when I went to that one
store, it was just nuts. The pricing on those things were
just crazy like but new current ones.
Yeah, the new current stuff. Yeah, the new current stuff for
for the older stuff, I know it's it's just gone through the roof.
I think during COVID it's just just got, you know, over.
But I never got eBay. That's the last place I ever go
to. I really.
I wouldn't even know where else to look.
Facebook groups, Facebook groups.
I've just done everything through Facebook.
I basically basically bought my entire dwarf army like old
hammer army through Facebook. Trading groups like Oldhammer
Trading groups, Middlehammer Trading groups.
So yeah, I'll have to join a few of those then.
Yeah mate, cuz it's all regulated.
So the Oldhammer trading group is regulated.
It has a evaluation so you can evaluate the prices.
People will give you a price and then that's good, That's good.
Yeah, which means it keeps it fair and honest.
So you don't see, you don't see like a model going for like £50
or something like that, It's just stupid.
And so nothing like you, you say.
Stupid. I think I was watching a Land
Raider, you know, the original plastic ones in a box.
And I thought, ah, you know, I'll give that a watch.
I wonder how much this is worth. It went for around 5 to 600
pounds I think in the end. Oh wow, that's the price they're
worth nowadays, is it? Crazy net.
That is a lot, isn't it? You know from £10 what they were
originally at or £12, something like that.
Amazing net and now 5 to 600 pounds.
There was a few people bidding on it, so someone had to have
it. Good luck to him.
I'd say if they got the money to
do that, they priced me out of those.
I can't. You know I can't justify 600
pounds for another grand ready yet.
Maybe one day, if I win the lottery, I'll yeah, I'll buy a
few. Then you can sell them again,
double the price or whatever, so they can go in the garage.
Yeah, collect us like everything else.
Yeah, right. Let's talk about your YouTube
channel and that Snake Works Studio.
Now when I first found your YouTube studio, sorry YouTube
channel, it wasn't called Snake Works Studio was it?
No, no. That was sci-fi war gamers,
right? OK.
And that was the name of my first blog I had.
I don't know if you remember blogs.
We all had blogs at one point, didn't we?
And I was doing a few things then, and I spent a lot of time
on that old X Wing game, came out and yeah, and then
progressed onto YouTube. And then my friends kept
referring to me as Scifi war gamers.
And I thought, I really don't like that name.
I don't know why, you know, he just kept calling me Scifi War
gamers. And I just thought, oh, it
sounds a bit, I don't know, I didn't like it.
So we did a bit of a rebrand. Right.
So what was, what was snake works?
What's what's the thinking behind that then?
Always had snakes collected a few snakes over the years.
OK, me and my wife had a few. Yeah, right, right.
So we were big into snakes, and I had a little snake as the
logo, and eventually the sort of snakes got phased out, but I was
left with the name. So that's sort of kind of how it
happened. There was, if some of the older
videos do have actual snakes in, I think they made a few
appearances. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. They were sort of on the desk.
Yeah. Amazing.
Have it. Snake Bite.
Have it. Snake Bite works.
No, that's a drink, isn't it? Snake Bite Someone used to have
Snake bite in black. It sounds like some kind of walk
cocktail mate. I don't think I want to try
something. I don't know what's in there,
but yeah, but snake work is just meant to be a bit of a play on
the old skunk works from Lockheed, right?
And all the, you know, the American.
Yeah, fighters and things that they were building.
Right. OK, that's cool.
I'll just do a little play on that and I've just thought I've
had it since. But you gotta say, it's pretty
phenomenal. You've released over 1000
videos. Yeah. 900 are terrible.
Yeah. The first few years, I had no
idea what I was doing. It was literally just filming
what you were doing on the day. Yeah, no camera tripods or
anything like that. So if you want a bit of motion
sickness, go and watch some things Other ones.
Sounds like some way early videos too, yeah?
Yeah, yeah. But the weird thing is, at the
time, you think you're doing a good job.
Yeah, yeah. It's amazing what you learn over
the years. A friend of mine just started
watching some of my old ones and he said they are absolutely
terrible. Well, I think a lot of that
comes from self analysis. You know, like you do, you
criticize yourself, you look at your own videos, you criticize
things. Well, actually when I could edit
that a lot better because you know, I do that as well When I
look at my videos and think, bloody hell, why didn't I take
that out or why did I leave that in or you know, but you just
evolve, isn't it evolving? I was watching your the banner
making one which I liked. All right, cool.
Yeah, I like that. I never knew how to make the old
style band. It's not, you know, that's been
bookmarked the later use. Good on you mate.
Yeah, I hope you can do that, because, yeah, I mean, it's a
pliable 440K and fantasy whatever, you know?
So I hope you get some. It was all the free.
You did all the free handing on that one as well, didn't you,
from what I remember? Yeah, it's all drawn out like
the old school. Yeah, that I was very impressed
with that. That was like a nice little down
memory lane for me. Yeah mate, I was, I was looking
at some. Another video from another
gentleman that I just found out about Stompy 51.
I think that's his name of his YouTube channel.
But anyhow, he did like a review of the old Golden Demon 198990
awards when they actually had booked publications for them
like John Blanche, and when they released those and then three of
those books, didn't they? I think so.
And they never did them again. Yeah, it's a shame because, man,
some of the banners in there are just amazing.
I mean, okay, you can probably discount some of the paint jobs.
They're not fabulous compared to modern standards, of course, but
they still had their unique charm.
But the banners were just incredible.
You know what, guys? Banners is definitely of the
era. That's something on this.
Yeah, me too, Me too, Freehand banners.
It was another little, you know, a way to put your own personal
spin on things. Yep.
You had to design your own little logos and you know, Yep.
That's right. That personality, individuality
that you'd get, You'd recognize someone's work, you'd see their
banner style. Yep.
And they were huge as well, weren't they, back then?
Yeah, massive men or huge. I mean, I don't know how that
was transported out there, yeah. It's amazing, yeah.
But yeah, I love seeing those old banners, very wonderful.
You know going through your videos here, I mean you talk a
lot about law and I know you really work hard on you're
scripting everything as you're filming it.
You're scripting the whole lot before you go to record it.
And they're done very professionally.
And I know you you set, you sort of focus your videos on the old
hammer and some of the new hammer too.
But a lot of the old Hammer glory days of you know, For
example, today I watched your the best Chaos miniatures old
Hammer heavy metal. Yeah, yeah, on the cows,
warriors and stuff like that. That's just like a little, you
know, I like to have a trip down memory lane again, have a look
at the old minute. And I think no one gets to see
these. There's no other way for people
to see them. And I just think, I think
they're great to look at. Yeah, me too.
I think. I think more people need to see
them. Yeah, that's great.
I'm glad you were doing that. You know yourself and and a very
few other people are actually, you know, presenting this sort
of stuff, this old, old, old. We're preserving the history.
Otherwise it's just gone, isn't it?
Yeah, that's right mate. So that's always good to see and
it brings back some good memories of certain page jobs
and you have, you have a very unique style about how you
present it and and that kind of. Thing as well, Yeah, it's
probably a bit Marmite. I know some people.
Get a bit upset about some things, but really okay well.
You either? Yeah.
I think you either get the sense of humor or you don't, right?
I know it's one of those things I'm not gonna be.
I can't please everyone. It's just that's the sense of
humor. I did like the Chaos Granny's.
Was it Granny's curtains, pants or something like that?
You remarked on the style of sculpting or whatever.
Yeah, you just see something, don't you?
And it just pops in your head immediately what it reminds you
of. And it's just like, no, that's
what it is to me. But I also like, I also like the
Brits presenting this stuff because you know, when I think
of Gang's workshop, of course it's from, it's from the UK,
it's, you know, it has it's Homeland is there.
So when I hear English voices and see Old Hammer, it's kind of
a, you know, it sort of it suits it so well.
I think the blend of the OK, yeah, yeah, you know what I
mean. And the sense of humor and
everything, It's all part of that package.
It fits. Yeah.
So if I had someone like me, it's.
All appropriate Ozzy accent. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maybe it doesn't get, maybe doesn't come across as well.
So, yeah. And when I like to hear that.
No, I've never thought of that. Yeah, until you say that.
But I think for me, yeah, I like to hear an English perspective
on stuff, you know what I mean? Like the British perspective on
these kind of things, cuz yeah, I mean you guys were saturated
with games, workshops back then and all this kind of hobby
goodness for us poor Australians.
We have to wait many years later, many decades later,
before we got our first gang. When did you get it?
Yeah, I have no idea. When that came out over there, I
just assumed it was always there, you know?
Well, I went for an interview to work at the very first Gangs
workshop. They put in Sydney and I went to
the interview. It was in Brisbane and I sat
down and I brought some miniatures along and they asked
me some questions and I didn't know, you know, like it was
pretty nerve wracking. But they said at the end I think
we might have a spot for you in the mail order section instead
of detail in mail order or whatever, but it just didn't
work out to anything. And then after that, soon after
that, I went to the UK and worked over there in Oxford
Street at the Plaza. So.
Where did you get your miniatures from if the Games
Workshop shop wasn't open there? Very good question.
Well, there was one store in Brisbane because I can only
relate to what happened in Brisbane because that's where
you know, that was my closest city.
But on the Gold Coast where I was living, there was a small
comic shop in the mall in Southport and they had a range
in a corner of all. And when I first discovered it
was basically Rd. Trader 3rd Edition, 40K First
edition Space Marine. All the classic stuff, all the
classic paint sets, the Citadel color sets of the golden demon.
You know the I think it's Tony. The best paint is that art Bob
Mays with. I love it mate.
Yeah, that. That stuff for me is just like
awesome. Seeing the the rack of
miniatures with all the Marauder miniatures.
They just had a rack with marauder miniatures on it.
So I got my trip, my EC, all slayers and you know my ogre
there and they were the first middle miniatures I bought.
And yeah, that that was the glory days for me at that time.
No, I would have to agree. I just look back and I think, is
it our nostalgia that does that? Was it better or did it just
have a different feel to it, you know, and if we look at it now
with, no. Experience.
Would we think it looked terrible?
Would we think it looked really tacky or anything like that?
Yeah, I don't know. I think you gotta put it to the
people who are in the hobby and some people will agree with you
and some people will permanently say, no, it's not.
It's much better now than it ever was.
So it's really in the eye of the beholder, I think.
Yeah, it's interesting for the sense.
Yeah, so I mean if you can sit there and clip out plastic
screws for 10 hours and try to put them together reading some
kind of manual that was for like a, I don't know, a Datsun in
1970 and get pleasure out of doing that, then fantastic all
the all the power to you. But for me, I'll just like my
metals, metal and one piece so I can just quickly go around and
clean up the mold line and ready to roll and.
Always found with the metal ones.
Their feet would always lift at the front.
I don't know why. Yeah, they put them in their
little lot of basis and there'd always be a gap under the toes
at the front that I'd have to contend with.
I don't know why there's a reason for that.
I was probably just doing it wrong.
But yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe. It was all a big, big learning
curve for us back then. Dealing with like metal
miniatures and how to clean them up and priming the models and
stuff like that. Yeah, it was a good time.
But of course, now it's the Internet.
You've got information at your fingertips with smartphones and
you can watch 1000 videos before you even get to painting your
first model. So, you know, maybe, maybe now
is the glory age. I don't know.
But it's good in ways that they can find whatever information
you know you need is there. You can do a lot of research
before you commit, but also I worry that you'd get stuck.
There's too much to look at and you'd never really begin.
Yeah, that's another thing, yeah.
You got saturated with choice, yes.
And then, you know that's right, but.
I don't know. But yeah, mate, look for anybody
who's interested in especially the law.
I mean, you do a load of law videos plus some hobby videos
and retrospectives back into the old Hammer days.
Yeah, late age. I think that is sort of my
trifecta as it were, a bit of law, yeah.
A bit of old stuff and some hobby stuff, yeah.
So a good mix of that, mate. But there's no fantasy, except
for today. We saw some scabing, to my
surprise, and a cow's beef. I mentioned that, yeah, War
machine or whatever. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
So why no fantasy love mate? You could expand your business.
The snake works could be a multi multi well.
With this old World malarkey, we'll see what happens with this
old world. I've always had my eye on some
of those undead. I always like the undead stuff,
the vampires and all right, I love all that.
So if I was going to go down the fantasy route, that would be.
The retail would take and I'd have to try and get hold of that
old skeleton army box. I don't know if you know the
one. I mean the Is it like the 6th
edition one? No.
No, no, no, no. Well, you told me about that.
The real good one. You told me the best one, the
Skeleton Army set. Yeah, well, they look like
skeletons. Yeah, they didn't have loads of
clothes on. Yes, brilliant ones, I know
that. Yeah, I've just.
I've just painted those up. I'll be releasing a video soon
about how to paint those things. So it'd be just right up your
alley, mate. Another one to book.
They were the best that, yeah, that they would be the avenue I
would have to take. I think it was a bit of fantasy,
yeah. No, you're starting in the right
direction there mate, I think and but good luck to you, good
luck to you finding a set of those.
I I don't know how much you're going to be paying for them and
what. I think they were around a
couple of £100.00 for the box there if I looked at the time, I
think so yeah, there, yeah, they're right there.
Pricey. Yeah, so I can only wish.
You those on a black on those, Yeah.
But aside from that, now I really hope that you bring a lot
more epic Space Marine content because I know you're on your
social media, is on Instagram, and on your YouTube as well.
You have a lot of these postings of pictures and a lot of it's
sort of focused around Epic Spaceman.
So what's your curiosity there? Epic was the 2nd box I bought.
I think So after Space Crusade, I think I did buy that Epic box.
So that's also another little love of mine.
You know that. I remember well and dearly so I
remember getting that home and building all those little orc
buggies and the Eldar. What were they?
Grav tanks. Strange, yeah.
The grav tanks that look very different to the ones of today,
yeah. And putting all that together,
reading all the rule books like you say, with all the extra
information in the box and never playing it.
Bugger. OK, well, I hope you get to play
that. It's still under your bed, isn't
it? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. No, I had to source another copy
because I think that went the way of the black bin bag that
was in landfill as well. So the old bin bag.
Yeah, OK. Yeah, there's some stuff out
there somewhere for Indiana Jones to find, find some old
relics. But yeah, so I had to find
another copy. So that that's on my list I want
to do. I want to, you know, start some
epic stuff from scratch, right? So I've had.
I've sourced a few things. I think I started working on
some storm hammers, I think. Cool.
I don't know if you remember those.
Did I buy those? I don't think so.
What did I get? I never buying a box set of
tanks back in the day, but I can't remember what they were.
They were bristling with missiles and all kinds of
different things on them, but I don't think it was the storm
hammers. But it could be, could be.
I can't see it now. Is it an Imperial tank?
Yeah, Imperial tank. They were painted gold.
They had gold on them or brass or something.
So. There was a sort of orange and
brown desert camo tank that was like it, with some missiles on
the side. That's probably it, I think.
I think that was really. Yeah, blades or something.
That's it. Storm blades.
But I think. But I think they call them
something else in the article. I think it's one of those old
articles you read. You know when they came out and
got released in the White Dwarf. I think the name of the actual
tank changes about three times. All right, the articles what I
remember storm something something or other is in their
in their. Yeah, they were what tank line
up there? But they, they were a nice one.
They had like a little rack of three missiles down the side of
the turret, from what I remember.
Yeah. Yep, Yep.
Great game. Yeah, great game.
So I really hope you get that. I hope that comes to the
channel, how that comes to network Studios.
I love epic content in any shape, way or form, especially
second edition stuff. That's my.
I'll have to finish the store, Rammer, so I'll put that top of
the list for you. Yeah, mate, that'll be good,
yeah. Because I know there's a lot of
people who really enjoy that. I mean, it's not just us, it's a
whole group of people who really enjoy and love Epic.
As a. Yeah, Micro Machines.
Warhammer, My friend's daughter. Right.
OK, well, yeah, there you go. It's that's exactly what it is.
Really isn't. It yeah.
But the one of the great things about Epic was that it didn't
have rules that covered, you know, three or four different
books and you had to, you know, almost take like a law exam and
try to work out how things worked.
It was very simple. You know, Jervis Johnson was a
was a master at this. And his rule sets, he made them
really streamlined, quite simple to follow, gave you very core,
very basic core system and then sort of bolted on the added
rules. And in the supplements when the
armies, when you played the different armies, you had those
and you sort of you could gradually get into it and it
just wasn't such a huge headache trying to remember everything.
And I love all that. And so when you do.
Get Do you know it's gonna be similar to the new version of
Epic coming out is that? Are you aware of this?
Are you? Yeah.
I've taken some a bit of interest in it because of course
it's epic. Yeah, but yeah, it looks like.
What are your views on this? Look, I'm sure it'd be great.
I'm just happy that people are going to experience epic again.
I think it's a wonderful scale to represent 40K in because I
see these tables, these 6 by 4 tables or smaller.
I think they're smaller now in 10th edition.
I can't remember what it is now, 4 by 3 or whatever it is, but
they have these huge Titans and so many tanks in their
deployment zone, they can't even move You can't even, you can't
even maneuver anything. It's so ridiculous.
The old parking lot, isn't it? Yeah.
It's like central.
Parking lot. It doesn't fit the scale.
Yeah, I know. It doesn't fit and epic.
It just looks beautiful. You know?
You've got your big Titan, which is your central, you know,
giant, you know, Godzilla type thing on the tabletop that's
hard to take down. And it's going to be this
enormous threat and it feels like it too.
It feels like this enormous entity on the tabletop that
it's, you know, you think, I don't know if I can take that
down. It's going to take a lot of, you
know, you can take buildings down this thing and you know
your inventory, they feel miniscule and small and very
fragile. And you know, sometimes you need
to, you need those to take objectives, cause tanks and
stuff can't do it and you're, you know, you're motorized
infantry can't do it. So everything has a specific
purpose, and that's another beauty of the system as well.
So they made you take the infantry for those reasons.
You've got to do it because you've got to take those
objectives, maybe forest or something like that.
You've got to take infantry to get in there because otherwise
you can't. You can't claim them.
So you know, everything had a unique purpose and I just, I
just think that translate really well in that scale.
But then in 40K it just did it just never did it.
It always looked very strange to me, these huge Reva Titans, and
you know what have yous on the tabletop on this very small
space. No, I I feel that I completely
agree with that. It looks a bit too overpopulated
on that board, but I will say this.
In the 1990s at games day they replicated Epic Space Marine but
in 40K scale using armor cast Titans and and.
I remember seeing the photos in White Dwarf.
I weren't there and they had like square bases and they had
like you know, 5 space Marines stuck on the base, just like
they did in Epic. And they had people standing up
on the on the table moving their models around and stuff like
that as a bit of fun, you know what I mean?
But. Yeah, that looked really cool.
So. But anyhow that.
Would have been nice to see that one.
Look, Marcel, it's been an absolute pleasure talking to you
mate. I've really enjoyed getting to
know you a little bit more about, you know your history and
how you got into the hobby and and I just hope that it's been.
Great. I've really enjoyed myself.
I think that's been great. Oh, that's good, mate.
Is this your first time you've been?
Here I had a wonderful time. Is this the first time you've
been on a podcast? To do with the hobby, yes, I
think the last time was on a. A call like this.
So I had to do a driving awareness exam.
So OK. Well, I've been caught speeding,
so it's a little bit that was all set up and ready to go.
OK buddy. Well, I hope you had a good
experience doing this, and I hope that I'll leave links in
the show notes in this podcast. In the show note description,
you can go down and check out Statework Studio and Marcel's.
Very kind of you and Twitter and all that.
I'll leave it in there so you can go and access that.
And as I know, you're a very avid poster.
You're posting stuff every day. Keeping people in the loop,
Keeping people in the nostalgia, you know, frame of mind every
day. Releasing some kind of photo
from the past, which is great. Yeah, got to feed them, keep
them. And you gotta get to feed me,
mate. You gotta keep keep feeding me
more. So I hope that comes to the
channel too at some point. Some point with your store.
It's coming. It's.
It's already happening, so all right, is your is your wife
doing the voice over for that? She can do.
I'm not at the script writing stage yet.
We're still in the painting and footage stage, right?
Okay. Well, the epic, whatever form
and shape it takes, I'm sure it'll be very entertaining and
we look forward to it mate. Thank you again.
Brilliant. No, I appreciate that.
You're very kind, Okay. Now we're all the best for the
channel and for the future. And yourself.
Thank you very much, Sir. And take care and we'll see you
next time. Okay.
Thank you.