So welcome to the first battery for Deep Dive of 2026 and with
me, as usual is Dave. Hello.
Leo. Hello.
Hello, so today we are going to look at where I think we we
pretty much call all the battles we cover classics, but this one
may be a little bit extra worth that mentioning because it
really is a classic and it also has a really cool name.
So we're not doing it exactly in sequence here.
So we jump into the revenge of the two.
What a name, yes? Yes, I think it will be familiar
to almost anyone who was around at the time or gotten into it
later. So absolute classic.
And there's quite a bit of things to talk about regarding
this one. It's I guess a more elaborate
scenario than most, so that's one thing.
And of course, we'll go through the battle itself and maybe at
the end they will give some insight in how this battle can
be played. Yes.
So to start, what are your sort of memories?
Sort of? What warm, fussy feelings does
the name bring to you when you hear it?
Go first. Oh no, he's on mute.
OK, I'll go first. OK, so range doodle for me, it's
it's a really, really nostalgic of the 4th edition undead book.
I got the 4th undead book must have been within a day or two of
its release. Undead were though, my main 4th
edition army. Really, I started with hils with
4th edition, but undead took over because the cost was an
awful lot cheaper to get the but we had we had a couple of boxes
of the undead army and then the, you know, the re releases in
fourth of those plastics was a lot more expensive than they
were as the undead army box. It was still a lot cheaper than
most armies. And mainly my army was
skeletons, you know, because of the cheapness of it.
So it was an important army for me.
It was just one of the few armies I could beat my brother
with. So that was that was like a main
selling point and this was a really, really atmospheric
battle report. Sorry, not battle report, sorry
scenario within the undead book and it was kind of the dwarf
book and was 1 was the only other book that had a scenario
in it. I think that's a really cool
thing to put in them, even more so than the battle report.
I think a scenario is probably better.
And if you could do the two add scenario and battle report even
better, you know, it could be a battle of the scenario, funnily
enough. And just, it's, it's unique in
that it has like 2 battlefields as well.
So never, you know, there's probably one or two other
battles they've done in White War before where they have more
than one battlefield going on, but they're very, very rare.
I think it's probably a 40K1 somewhere.
But generally speaking. Oh, and then there's the there's
the Chaos Talk star right at the end of 4th as well that uses a
second battlefield as well, where you've got the White Dwarf
climbing. Aside from that second
battlefield is is just unique and it's just really nice.
You know, you've obviously got named characters, not that
they're all obviously Dieter's a special character, but the rest
are named within the scenario. And yeah, it adds a lot of
flavour to the undead book just by having this scenario that's
really quite a unique scenario. Love it.
It's a bits. Degree more Leo, do you have
any? Yeah, memories.
So few memories. The first one is from the undead
book. And when we were kids and this
was coming out, like the few kids playing and obviously
unlike now, maybe we couldn't afford all the books.
So we each had one or two and we are passing them around and
reading them. So you kind of like cut the book
and then spend your weekend reading it, rereading it.
So I remember the the scenario in the in the in the undead army
book. And I remember a couple of the
pictures were like in Patria. So we're talking about why Dwarf
174 in the UK edition and on page 54 in particular, there's
this, this very iconic picture of the undead army.
So you've got detail in the middle, you've got the little
Chapel on the back and it's all like very evocative.
So when I, when I look at this picture, it's just like, I feel
like I'm dead again, I think. And I've been thinking about
hijab and I've checked that this was never published in France
the the battle report. But I think.
I it got my hand somehow on the English World War and someone
people don't speak English at the time translated it for me.
Oh, OK, it's a lot of work. I don't.
Feel like some kind of like bedtime reading?
It was it was very fond memories.
Excellent. Yeah.
And I remembered quite well as well.
I think maybe when I, I was rereading, I noticed that I
probably back in the days, it was, you know, keeping track of
track of everything that happened.
And it was a fairly complicated scenario.
So I probably didn't read, you know, all the details of the
battle and the setup and everything because it was, oh,
yeah, that was how it worked. So maybe I was, you know, the
other better reports, the simpler one were more
accessible. So I think at least in the
beginning, I was like, this seems a bit complicated, but it
was very cool. Definitely.
So I I like the pictures and everything, but probably didn't
read all the details right. So as per usual, they give sort
of a a narrative, sort of a story behind what was going on.
When did the under the both edition rule book come out?
So the only book. Well, I don't remember the.
Date, but it was kind of middle of the run.
It was, I always view kind of the first four books, so Empire
3 to Dwarfs. Obviously.
That's that's kind of a start in my eyes, and that's kind of my
my golden period, to be honest. That's the neat.
So I wonder, what's this game? Then yeah, game.
Then I'm dead. So, and then after that you had
Chaos, Dark elves and and Woodhouse.
So really it was Chaos to all somewhere in the middle really.
It's kind of the beginning of the second-half.
It's the beginning of the second-half really.
You could argue of time. So if it was 3-4 years, probably
about two years in, two years in.
So would the This was 90. 4 June, right?
Yeah. Same date as the same date as
the white white dwarf because it was the month before it was
released. So there you go.
That's the way to do it. May 94, yeah.
So this was sort of the usual showcasing the new army, I
guess. Yes, absolutely, 100%.
It was definitely this is the new army.
This is how you can play it and it was just a nice way to do it
with the scenario. It it was because it it made
different battles just straight up, you know, line up stuck it
out. The added added a bit of
difference to it. You know, the objective based as
well in a capturing. I need to capture the village
and try do it before you get smashed by the reinforcements.
Obviously, as we see that doesn't really happen.
I don't know these two things, but yeah, that's the idea.
It's kind of it's definitely objective of capture the village
and and if you stick, you know, in all scenarios, if you stick
to what the victory conditions are, you know, what's your
opponent might forget them and concentrate on victory points,
then it's entirely possible you're going to win the game.
But yeah, no, it's it's just really nice.
And the fact that it has the not random as such, but the unknown
factors for the undead player of when the Midland continues is
going to turn up and also the, you know, which continues going
to turn up out of the Kislevites and the undead cavalry.
He's probably talked about the scenario in a second, I guess to
actually qualify what we talk what what I'm talking about
there. But but you get from sorry, it's
it's very, it stands out a lot because it's very, very
different to a normal battle report.
Yeah, absolutely. And well, the back story, I
don't think we need to go into the all the details about it,
but basically detail is he ambushed the Northern army and
they proceeded back to this small settlement outside mid
name was it. It's still in Nordland.
Yeah. So it's it's but it's on the
it's on the road between Erin Grad and Midnheim.
So I never noticed Beckhoven or Beckhoven.
I don't know. You have to get a German speaker
to not these an actual German name.
I know, but you know how they would pronounce it and that that
gives it. But yeah, so the so the Count of
Nordland of the time. And now here we go.
Here's one of my this is my autistic brain kicking.
And OK, here's one of my my not annoyances because I don't
really care that much, but something that made me go, oh,
that's a bit strange. So it's set during the time of
the Three Emperors. Yeah, before Magnus the Pious.
Yeah. OK.
And that's the important part of my brains.
Clicking on here. It's set during that time.
So the then electric out of Nordland takes his army off to
try and destroy. Basically there's a load of
roving bands of Orts and goblins and beasts men.
And it's because the doom laws driving them before him.
Yeah. So they're fleeing from the.
Exactly. So he leads off his army to sort
out this disturbance and yeah, Dita ambushes him on the road
and they flee back to Beakehoven.
Once you know, the the emperor, not the emperor, sorry, the the
electric council leading us pistolier.
So he escapes the ambush in effect and he meets up with them
back at Beakehoven. Not shades of rogue traders, you
know, farm scenario at all there where the leaders, you know,
Pedro Cantos leading a a separate force and managed to
escape the main destruction of the monastery.
It's nothing like that at all. No, safely back to the village
and they sent for reinforcements from Kislev and they sent for
reinforcements from Midnheim. And they're the other two, the
other two contingents in this for the Empire.
And the sticking point I have here that I said is kind of my
brain going, that's a bit weird, but it's not because I don't
want to be a fun sponge and it's fun.
But if it's before Magnus Pious, it's before the founding of the
Colleges of Magic. So why are there Wizards there?
Why are there Empire Wizards there?
Should it be there? Let's say hedge Wizards?
Anyway, that's that's my little silly law.
No, I think that's a good point. Mainly because I don't think
they they had a time period where they were setting.
It was just kind of before the current elect count of Midland.
Really the only one that matters on that really is Midlands.
I don't think they'd even named elect count of Nordland at this
point. So it doesn't matter what they
call that character. It's more, you know, the Midland
guy should if it were during Cole Francis time, that should
be Boris, obviously, but it's not Boris.
It's before then. That's fine.
Yeah. And then the scenario basically
is around Dieter attacking the village to wipe them out.
He knows the reinforcements are coming.
He sent a force of, well, he sent a some of his army to delay
the Kislovites that are coming from One Direction.
And that's the separate battlefield.
Whatever you send to be the delaying force fights on a
separate battlefield with the Kislovites, and whoever wins
that comes onto the battlefield later on in the game as
reinforcements. And then the Midland contingent
can choose when they turn up in the game.
And the earlier they turn up, the more of a points penalty,
the victory points penalty they have.
But if they turn up later, I think they get a bonus victory
point to to victory points. But the problem is obviously if
you turn up too late, the game might be over.
So, so whoever's playing, if you're it's only just one person
per side, obviously then it's your decision.
But if you've got multiple players, then they've got to
decide when they're going to turn up.
And if you add a little bit of mystery to it, you know that no
one knows except the person that's that's coming on the
Midland force. That's a little bit of intrigue
because the other players just not going to know how to protect
that flank. So it becomes a.
Technical decision on that and then you there are conditions
about the steam tank that's in the in that contain in the
Midland contingent. If you use the armies that are
provided in the book, there's a chance that's not going to turn
up at all. And then I suppose you've also
got to look at if it's time period, would a hell blaster
would a steam tank would would all wag me?
Well, again, not being a fun sponge.
Play with the scenario, you know, with the Force that are in
there. It's just, yeah, a little bit
weird. Should they be there?
That's all, Yeah. And I assume if you if you would
have been a, I'm not really that into it, but history above, you
could have probably found some real life parallels to this
battle, you know, with delaying forces and everything, maybe a
bit blue and stuff. So.
Yeah, well, you guys, it's. Interesting.
It changes you from the usual, you know, just line them up and
run at each other. Yeah.
They don't say much about the number of points though.
So in the in the in the army book, you've got these sample
arms and that's the one the battle reports.
Yeah, but they don't say how many points.
And if you want to replace, replay it how you should split
each force. No, but you've got to figure.
It out, I'm sure. Yeah, it's a percentage is it's
like a ratio of undead to in. In the army book you get 2500
points of undead. I think something like that to
3250, maybe a vampire in total. But yeah, there's a ratio.
You know, I haven't got the book in front of me, but you can work
out the ratio from there, what it needs to be.
Yeah. Not to give any spoilers, but
when we, when my brother and I did it at Boyle, we we doubled
both of them to make the armies bigger.
And if you just double them, it's really easy to it you just
double the, you know, the points value that you've got.
It's easy. You don't need to worry about
the ratio. But if you wanted to play
smaller or larger without just doing a simple double or triple
or half, then obviously you just work out whatever the ratio of
of. Empires.
Yeah, exactly. And do it from there.
Unless I get it wrong like in the end it seems to be 24123
points which is very random. Yeah, which you could say is
2500. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, probably. It's rounding up to whatever it
you know it is, just it's not going to make that much of a
difference. You could probably play with the
even armies and still split them up and it'd still be roughly
about the same. The village forces thousands.
And also there are a few special victory point conditions, so
mainly focused on who's in control of the the small
settlement. So a little bit of extra there
as well. But of course, that's for usual.
If you wipe out the enemy, you win.
That's pretty basic, yeah. Absolutely.
Right, so and the, there's actually three people involved
in this battle, so there's Mark Hawkins.
And honestly, I don't know too much about Mark.
I recognise the name and the photo, but I'm not familiar with
what. They were, they were three
apprentice Games designers that were taken on.
Ian and Gav obviously lasted a bit longer than Mark.
I don't know what they, I don't know what the story is, why Mark
didn't stick around. The three of them did a lot of
work in Citadel Journal around that time.
I think probably Mark did an awful lot of work in Citadel
Journal, remember correctly. And the other two probably did a
little bit less. But yeah, for whatever reason,
he departed. Ian and Gav stuck around and Gav
stuck out longer than Ian, obviously, probably about a
couple of years, less than maybe even quite a bit more common
when Ian left actually did you make, I don't think he made it
into the 6th edition era in Peacock.
So whereas obviously Gavin did and beyond so.
Yeah, yeah, he's got a good piece of hair going on.
So he. Has, hasn't he?
He's got a major hair going on there, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And so he was controlling the
the North End contingent, right. And then was it Ian who did the
the reinforcement spots? Yes, he was.
He was a Midland mid and high modern Which one Mid and high
reinforcements he commanded and then.
Yep, SO and I don't remember if they specified that if they it's
the participants were allowed to do any choices in the army if it
was pre. Decided literally yeah, it's
it's as they appear in the book. The only the only selection that
they you've got there is what college the was a champion is
the the the Lord He specifies as an amethyst, but the but it was
a champion isn't there's no there's no college specified.
He looks very grey in this case. So it's in the the army is grey
with what? Do you think it did OK there we.
Go yeah, there wasn't trade or torn popping up, but yeah,
right. So, and I mean the army is yeah,
some fun toys held loss to the steam tank wagon, so on.
All the toys are out. Yeah, pretty.
Much it's it's an all the toys army.
You're right, 100%, yeah. I don't think there's anything
really sticking out. You know, there's a mix.
Of there's the oddity of a champion in the brake source who
listed as a detachment. So that's, yeah, that's an odd
thing, but I don't it's not going to, well, we'll learn
later and it doesn't affect the game in any way, shape or form,
but. No, and to be honest, the Great
Swords rather seldom do because they're they're not very good.
In Inquisition I'm. I'm so looking page 55 and I
think there's a misprint because in the Midland contingent it
says 5 piston years, but I think it's Albert's right.
Yeah, no, they aren't there at all.
No, that's that's yeah, that's that is misprint.
You're right. Yeah, I noticed that.
I read through them. Yeah, you're right, 100.
Percent, yeah, that's not popping up any any pistols in
misprint? That's never happened.
We don't know what's. In the chin in the end.
No, yeah. But as you said, the same symbol
is used for the the heart bodies.
So maybe that's just. We know the Albanians because
they have like the horizontal line and they keep talking about
them. Anything else to say about the
army? They what do the kids?
I was thinking about the what they gave the general there.
They gave him sort of heroes. I think maybe we'll talk about
that later, but. I think the thing to say is that
it's quite magic items light. Yeah, it is.
It's weird because if you compare it to the previous
story, they put in an undead book, sorry, in an army book,
the dwarf one, that was magic item heavy.
So this is the opposite. They've obviously tried to cram
as many troops in as they can, I think.
And of course I mean compared to what if if someone had a free
choice of doing it on that army, probably wouldn't have just one
magic cost this one. Yeah, important.
In 2500 points that that's like you already have a 750 points
characters for the. Yeah, yeah, but the as we said,
the empire is fairly rounded. It has some artillery, some
shootings, some put troops some nights, not the lounge wielding
heavy nights, but they had a a fairly big units of white
wolves. So yeah, a lot of fun toys and
the undead army. What can we say about that one?
I I never played undead, I never created an army.
So what? What are the experts opinion?
It's a bit small army battle standards, a bit weird to have
an undead army. You don't really need it, but in
later editions they kind of bring in reasons to have a
battle standard. It's the same reason there's a
lot of armies have in a sense that you know, it's another
magic banner in the army. A lot of it looks good a.
Centipede. Stunning conversion, yeah
absolutely amazing. But usefulness with under battle
standard is pretty low. Yeah, whites aren't brilliant
and there's no benefit of a leadership re role.
So it's only plus one extra, plus one for.
Yeah, but you doesn't have a standard.
But it's an expensive one. Yeah, and you doesn't have a
standard. So therefore you'd be.
Better if you unit standard and a white Lord.
Yeah, and of course with the BSB, the disadvantage is always
that the enemy can kill the model and destroy the standard.
You can't do that in the normal unit banner.
So there are a few reasons. Two things that I would modify.
I think there aren't enough units is one of the one of the
issues for for 100 arm, you want a bit more and OK, we'll we'll
tackle the one magic user thing now quickly, but they'll
reference back when we talk about what we did for the for
this big epic that was that big. It was double, but it was a
bigger thing. We put on a ball.
So in this battle it's less of an issue only having one magic
user because the other side doesn't have an excessive amount
of magic. And for most of the battle he's
facing a lower level caster. So he's going to be dispelling
easier and he's going to be caught.
You know, his his spells itself. It's going to be harder for the
enemy wizard to dispel. So it's not too much of an
issue. There is only one version of Van
Hales Dance macabre in later, you know, versions of the undead
army that became the vampire accounts you can have.
You can have Van Hales dance macabre many, many times
throughout the army. Yes, you can cast it many times
as a single wizard. He's a Lord to automatically can
automatically recast it. He doesn't need, he doesn't need
to roll the dice be able to recast it.
Yes, he needs the power cards, but he doesn't need to roll the
dice to recast it. So he is in that sense, it's not
a huge issue. You've only got 1 magic user.
The issue of only one magic is more, and I've talked about this
when we talked about the undead army book for undead.
Well, same for any army really. But undoubtedly it's especially
true that you need distractions for your for the enemy's
dispels, right? So because there are certain
spells you have to get through, you have to get ran out for
Kaaba through it can't. If it's dispelled every single
time or you run out of power, you're in trouble.
And also I don't think either side had any like magic item
boosts for the magic face like and of course if you only have
two Wizards, there's only two D6 and on a low roll, which did
happen in this battle, you pretty much not going to do
anything for that magic face. Yeah, exactly.
So he's he's got the stuff flaming death.
So that's one distraction where he can cast that and Oh my God,
do you spell that or not? So he creates that little bit of
doubt in the but because he's a lower level for most of the
game, in fact pretty much all the game, it's less of an issue
because dispelling is on, you know, it was on A5 plus.
Now, if they're to pick their own magic items and he'd gone
and scold staff the the empire wizard, then you're on a bit of
a more even keel for dispelling casting, but for dispelling and
then it becomes an issue only having the one wizard.
But in this case, I don't think it's that bad.
I mean, the the glaring thing, obviously he's as you alluded to
before we start recording, he's a bit of a glass cannon.
He's got no protection either like in the black family, which
would be the standard thing that most undead generals, you know,
get. He's gone to the empire side.
So he's got no protection in that sense.
And the spells he received, he doesn't have anything that
boosts his wounds. So he is pretty much in the
shtick here if he starts taking wounds.
And also I when I watched his checked his profile, he only has
a toughness of four. So he's basically, you know,
harder than a human, which although as it proves later in
the battle, that was actually a bit of an advantage for him in
one specific case that he didn't have a higher toughness.
But we're getting ahead of ourselves here.
Thank you. So yeah, that was sort of the
the setup and just a short sort of run through of the armies.
And of course the setup is if you go into the check the maps,
the Empire Nordland force focuses behind the walls of this
little settlement. And of course, being behind an
obstacle is good. You only hit on a six when you
attack them, right? That's the thing.
So and yeah, I mean, why not? If you want to keep in place and
await your reinforcements, sure, that's probably how you would do
it. Yeah, it's the only way to do
it. As the Empire player, I think if
you if you come out from the walls, it's over.
The game's finished. You know that that defended
obstacle bonus is what you need to.
Survive doesn't protect you against here and against.
No, it doesn't. No, absolutely.
That's that's that's a downside. But the idea that you should
suffer relatively few wounds. So, you know, you you should be
kind of on a, especially for the halberdier unit, you should be
on an even. Key yeah, you should be safe.
It's not guaranteed. No, it's certainly the head of
our sense that, yeah, it's. Yeah.
And I think in this specific one, maybe that could have been
a reason they didn't. Do you know massive amount of
big undead units? Maybe that would have been too
easy to outnumber and break. I mean you.
You. Said that there's not a lot of
of undead, but they don't have a lot of points to work with and
and they. Are expensive.
Like skeletons are expensive so. Yeah.
Like. Maybe you could have removed the
postponement because they'll be. On that, yeah, sure, they're not
going to do anything. But they look cool apart from
that. Like what?
What could you change very materially?
I, I possibly, yeah, maybe the goals not being in there.
And also I'm not 100% sure about the undead Chariots.
I know they do something in the game, but for me they're really
cool models. They look great.
That's good enough reason to include them, but I'm not
certain they make their points back.
Chariots generally. Yeah.
No, no, in general not, but in this one seem like we find size.
Yeah, yeah. But I think still fairly evenly
matched forces. So yeah, I think we're coming up
to our first break now, so I'll think when we come back we'll go
into the actual action of the game.
So see you in a little while. So we're back and we stepped the
scene and the action is about to begin.
We didn't mention too much about the sideshow going on, which is
2 units of Kistov Horse, one of four sources, and one of Queen
Dances squaring off against the unit of Skeleton Horse or
Riders. And whoever wins that slide show
of small skirmish, we'll be able to enter the battlefield from
behind the the undead forces I think later turn.
So we'll see how that works out. And the Midden Haim
reinforcements will arrive on a later turn.
I think it was turn 3 as it turns out.
Yeah, it's kind of corners going on, isn't it?
So the initial battlefield, you've got opposite corners in
effect, the Empire in a village in one corner and then the
diagonally the opposite corner is the undead set up.
And then the kids lights come on to the side of the undead set
up. And then the midnight comes on
to the side of the village in opposite corners.
So yeah, cornering going on. Yeah, and since the Empire is
defending and not going to move around a lot, and the undead are
really the only one who's going to, you know, do any action
maneuvering in the first turn. So I guess the first, well, the
very first turn doesn't involve any combat of any kind.
It's more maneuvering. And for the undead, of course,
they are trying to go as quickly as they can by casting Van Hels,
and there's a bit of shooting, but I don't think there's
anything the skinny skeletal pals miss in this.
Yeah. And they keep missing.
Yeah, we can get that out of the way.
Any point they make it once near old a misfire.
So yeah, they they don't add anything to the to the game here
at all. And I think he's Dito is able to
cast on health several times. So it's very successful first
time in that sense. Absolutely.
He moves a few units around. I think he uses the staff as
well, but there's nothing, there's nothing major going on
other than that he gets the zombies a fair bit forward.
Yeah, yeah. So I think we can go through
that pretty quickly. I don't think the Empire is able
to cost anything. Right.
New, no. Yeah.
So manoeuvring, closing, I suppose it's a bit quicker than
the Empire might have hoped for, but otherwise nothing
substantially going on. So on the Empire term, they're
not doing a lot of moving, or probably any on the main
settlefield. The only one is the pistol.
It's moving out sort of on the flank to harass the undead.
In actual just just one point for the second battlefield.
So your kids like battlefield, you've got a mirror image
happening here because at the end date this the all all the
end have to do is delay the kids fights.
They're not going to win that fight.
Yeah, they've got to delay them for as long as possible so they
don't actually move in their first term.
Whereas obviously on the main field all the undead move
forward other than scrimmage and the carry on fly high,
obviously. So yeah, that's kind of your
images. And then in the Empire first
turn, obviously nothing really moves on, the pistol is on the
main battlefield, but on the kids of like 1 the kids of like
move forward as quickly as they can to try and engage the the
skeleton horsemen. Yeah.
So they pretty much move up to, you know, force some sort of
action on the the side front. And the empire shooting isn't
horribly effective either. I think at this point they kill
the some zombies kill something, Yeah.
Yeah, they kill. They kill AI think.
It's a hand blaster. Yeah, 877.
Yeah. So they shoot off 3 of the 9
barrels and has, you know, pretty good effect on the long
range. So yeah, decent, yeah.
And of course. Yeah and I think CrossFit men
kill for another another 5 or so so so you do decent damage on
the on the zombies, but the cannon just about hits the
scrimmage hole catapult but doesn't do any damage.
Rolls the one classics. The classic, Yeah.
And of course with the Hell Blaster, it's always that sort
of, should I, how many barrels should I shoot?
Should I wait until like when they're under half range before
I shoot? Because that's a lot more
effect. But of course there's always the
worry that the enemy is simply going to destroy it before
you're able to use it. So yeah.
I think the solution, you just shoot it, all of it when you
come and that's it. I think so may and because even
at full range, if he would have fired, of course we can misfire
at any point. So he might not have gotten more
than three, but he could have probably destroyed that unit or
close to if he was able to get more shots off.
But yeah, he did a bit of compromise in that case.
Wind of Magic. And of course, the wizard
champion has the very powerful and potentially entertaining
spell of traitor of tongue. And he would.
That's sort of interesting also how you decide how to use it
because there are some extremely easy targets for the trait of
tone because you're old against leadership.
So he could have had an excellent chance to take over
full unit of zombies. I mean, it would have been
almost impossible to fail. What are their leadership 34 55?
55 never actually use it really so.
Yeah, you, you will have to be very unlucky to fail on three
dice because but of course I can understand, you know, if he's
able to take Dieter, it's yeah, pretty much.
And I mean, it's not a bad chance.
I think it's 5050 pretty much if he's able to.
So I get the appeal. Yeah, because you should get, if
you go on averages, you know, even if if you roll 3 threes,
it's 9. So you just miss it, but get
one, four or two fours in that. And obviously you can go either
way with twos and ones and fives and sixes.
But the, the the charges are pretty high if you're working.
It's actually quite a scary possibility for the undead
player. Yeah, OK, but philosophical
points, if you do it, doesn't it just run the game?
It does, yeah. You know, absolutely.
I agree. It's pretty much game over.
Yeah. Yeah, especially if you do it on
your opponent's term, then you will be able to do something
with him before he's able to try to stop you in any way.
So, yeah, yeah. My, my, I've had someone, I've
used Dietra in the past. Not this game.
It was a different, it was a different game, but usually
right. And someone's done something
similar with Dance of Despair, and it's just like, well, that's
it. If you do that to the under,
generally you've won the game. Congratulations.
But. What?
So yes, yes, for speculation. If you would have been able to
take over the details as an Empire player, what would you
have done with him? Well, I guess you're flying
right towards the back of the back of the thing, and you're
passing passive years on everything.
Yeah, yeah, I was. Dancing things away.
Yeah, I mean, I attack you, I attack you.
The I don't know the the catapults attack the just cut it
on the horsemen. Yeah, maybe the the cool choice
if you had a a full held blast would be to place him back two
inches across. Yeah, I guess so.
But I think he can. He's more used doing stuff.
But I suppose there is a chance. Yeah, that's the spell, isn't
there? So.
Yeah, yeah. But I I think if you take him
over in your opponent's turn, you will be able to shoot before
he has a chance to break out, right?
Or is that the right sequence? Should do, I think.
I can't remember the spell off the top of my head, the exact
nature of the brain. I think it's I think it's a
leadership test in your turn. So yeah, you will have a job.
Yeah, that would have been fun, but maybe a high risk thing.
It would, as you said, it would have been safer to us moving
away from everyone else as quickly as possible.
That would have paralyzed the army a bit.
So yeah. So that didn't happen.
So he wasn't taking up and what it goes on.
Otherwise not too much. It's the on their day because
any spells. Yeah, that's the dance.
Like our bonders on the crossbow, men?
Weird insistence on trying to get them to do some damage.
I get, I get you want them to be effective and kind of the more
times they shoot and the more effective they are, but.
Maybe there were better targets for that one.
Well, they're they're in two ranks.
Only four and a half of them, anyway.
Yeah. They're going to struggle to
hit. Yeah, OK.
If they hit, they should do some damage because, you know, their
crossbows -1 to strength 4 -, 1 to save against pistols.
They should. If you can't hit enough times,
then they should wipe the pistol ears out.
But there are better ways. Probably better off just
charging into the pistol ears, yeah?
Yeah. So he only gives 1 then you know
that's not really do anything much.
You know, because, because then the fear can.
Take a. No it doesn't.
Oh yeah. Oh, yeah, He rolled a six.
Yeah, it's true. So not even that.
And as we said on the Kislev front, they moved up towards the
skeletons. Yeah.
So it was pretty much it. The cannon bluffed, the two
wounds rolled against the catapult, so yeah, no deal
there. And the DEET, of course, would
have been the natural target, but he was hiding behind the
forest, wisely, I suppose. Tactically concealed.
Yeah. Let's go tactically because
you're not hiding. What a terrible shocking you
tell my bias in this game. But yeah, considering he had no
protection, that's probably a wise tactic, right?
So I guess on. To Undead Turn 2 and no charges
on the main front I think still. No, no charges.
Move closer. Yeah, a bit of magic going off
and the undead units on the other flank get in each other's
way. Yeah, and the skimming skull
catapults sitting I think still. Yeah.
But in the side battle, the skeletal horsemen charge the
horse Archers and wrath them. Would it have been better to
flee with them? And we don't know the exact
distances, but I mean the chance that they would hold would have
been pretty low. I think maybe it would have been
better off being another chance to in.
The first place, why? Why would you have let your
horse Archers like in charge range with the inside unit next
to them? I mean, it's a bit like inviting
disaster. Either you put them in front of
the lens cells or you don't put like in the back or somewhere.
Yeah, well, I guess 11 glaring thing we can see as well is, and
we we know this to be true from conversation we've had about the
battle for new rules team. Was this actually played or is
this just a yeah, yeah, you know, was it actually played or
was it? But was it a mix that they
played a battle, but they punched the results and the, you
know, in the I. Mean that's the that's the
thought behind the threat of town, right?
Because if that succeeded, pretty much you'd have to replay
the game. Yeah, absolutely.
So yeah. And sometimes they, they
described as maybe they did a, a couple of battles and they did
the, they published the one that was, you know, most interesting
in a sense. Or or maybe little aspects of
each one. Yeah, and I think when when
hearing interviews, you get, you know, different pictures of
this. Some say it's completely
scripted and some say no, no, we pretty much, you know, the dice
rolled where they did, but. I'd like to think they played
it. I'd like to think they played.
It. Yeah, I mean, and of course.
We'll talk about the reinforcements.
That's that's the part of. Maybe seeing the Cladids, Yes,
the tactical blunders, let's say.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So let's see what will happen in
on the turn 2. Not too mathematic, was it?
It was pretty weak on this turn. Yeah, he used his staff, but
that didn't do much at all on the I think.
He killed any, did it? It's 1.
Yeah, oh one, yeah, and the the carry ONS actually didn't shot
the. Oh yes, yeah, that's there you
go. Help last.
Should have fired all barrels in hindsight then.
Yeah, yeah. Because, yeah, they got fairly
predictable where they're going to land.
So that was the chance they had. And yeah, like you said, why not
go for go for broke in that case.
They did survive one turn though, which is slightly
surprising, but so they got a bit lucky.
But in the end it didn't matter too much.
And like we said, magic wasn't too eventful.
They did move up the zombies a bit further.
The empire didn't cost anything or even try at that point.
I don't think they had the the power to do that.
So Empire turn 2, and if you just quickly look at the Kislev
side, the Lancers were sort of off position so the only thing
they could do was turn towards the skeletons.
So yeah, maybe they should have likely done the placement a bit
different. Yeah, held back and allowed the
Kislevite horses to be charged, but then have the kids lights in
the wing Lancers in a position to counter charge.
Yeah, and maybe, like I said, maybe if they would have fled
the the undead horseman would have ended up being a more
favourable position to be shot by the Empire.
Because I think in fourth you couldn't redirect to anything
that wasn't a thing, right? Could you?
You could, yeah. Yeah, you could.
Yeah, maybe. You could.
There's a late the high off scathing game that's kind of.
Cut. Oh yeah, yeah, mixing up my.
Just before this one, the Silver Hills re redirect in that.
Game. So yeah.
You can, yeah. But they could have placed it in
a way to, you know, get a more favourable outcome of that I.
Suppose you worry was if you yeah, whereas if you put them in
front, I suppose you've put the holes artists in front.
There's a chance that the scale and cover you're going to either
run into into the wing lances. That's why you don't do that, I
guess. But it's you know, there are
Ways and Means of organizing yourself to kind of plan for
these things and it just doesn't like there was that much
thinking how to handle that. There is what it is.
And otherwise the Empire main force doesn't of course, do
much. They don't want to move out of
the cupboard. The yeah, they charge because
they were the young ones that didn't fit within the the covers
of speak. So they were a bit on the well.
They're trying to save the Hell Blaster, aren't they?
Yeah, with a flank charge, but carrying are always
underestimated as they're not necessarily brilliant in combat,
but they have quite a few wounds.
Yeah, it's hard to get rid of them.
Yeah, and of course, I mean, they're just normal humans with
no bonuses in hand to add combat, the cost per man, and
they don't have, well, they have one.
Do they have one full rank? Yeah, I suppose one rank bonus.
No. They don't it's yeah, it's a
charge, but I mean, the picture has 6, but yeah, there's only
five. Well do or is it 6?
Maybe it's 6, I can't remember. Anyway I.
Think one one of them died from six. -1 they but they don't,
they're not going to cause a panic check.
So charging in the flank of them.
So that's going to happen. But yeah, they're just trying to
take the help blast and fully understand maybe, maybe the
general could be in better place to do that kind of counter
charge, but that's about it really.
Yeah, and of course the in in the actual battle, the
crossbowmen don't do much or anything I think.
They don't do much and more carriers kill the rest of the
crew. Yeah.
And the. Cannon explodes.
Yeah, so. Cannon explodes.
Yeah, so overall, the artillery on either side didn't do much in
this battle, didn't do any decisive actions at all to the
songmatic face, and of course the Empire side got the coveted
total power once again. He tried on Dieter and well,
fortunately he didn't do it. They're all six.
That's. Yeah, that's pretty.
Yeah, that's. Sub optimum.
So yeah, none of that. And I don't seem to remember
what his second spell was. Or did he only have one?
Is it a level 1 or level? One, Yeah, OK.
Yeah. Right.
In theory, it's actually a very good handle of spells for what
you've got to do. So that that kind of lends
towards slightly staged maybe. Obviously you can, you can get
those spells. Don't get me wrong, there's
absolutely a possibility of getting them.
It's just it's probably the two. He's not going to use the Gray
bridge. There's no point having that,
right? There's a shadow probably it's
called right. So if you're not going to have
that, he's probably got the two most useful spells he's going to
have in the grey deck for for the situation they're in, you
know, something that rallies people where there's lots of
leadership tests going on and so they can potentially take over a
powerful character. Yeah, the powerful character.
Yes, exactly. So yeah.
Yep, it didn't happen. So yeah, early an eventful
Empire to on this one, and then on on to Undead Turn 3.
And that's when things are sort of not great for Empire, mostly.
Yeah, it looks like in turn 3 it should be game over, Yeah.
When you look at the map, it's like, oh, everything is fleeing.
Except the pistol is the general of the battle standard, but
everybody else is running away. Yeah, but you don't need the
battlefield is which is important.
So in the end, the defended obstacles didn't help them all
that much because they were still defeated and also broken I
think in. Yeah, well, it's because he
doesn't charge the help. It is, does he?
He charges the cross and obviously there's no rank bonus,
so the rank bonus alone wins it for the for the zombies and you
know, outnumbering so have to flee.
Yeah, so like like you said, when you look at the map, it
looks like OK, that's it, the emperor is gone.
But yeah, maybe not. We'll see that in in the next
term. And in on the kiss left side,
the undead cavalry is of course facing the wrong way, so they
have to just turn to prepare for the inevitable assault.
I'm hoping for a missed leadership test I guess.
I I have the feeling I would just carry on moving forward
with them. Yeah, because you've got.
Charged in the rear. It doesn't matter that the young
dead aren't there to survive, the young dead are there to tie
them up for as long as possible. So if they go further forward,
the other the kids wise further forward to get to the edge of
the battlefield they've got to get to.
You can't March right and likely even if didn't turn around and.
Move. It would seek cash in the back
and then got more chance of disappearing in one term so.
Definitely, it's more getting them as far away from the edge
of the battlefield as possible. Yeah, yeah.
But you the key level then don't have to move, they can just,
they just need to destroy the unit and then they appear.
They don't need to. Basically move.
They don't need to get off work. To the edge take off OK, I
thought it might have to get to the edge OK, so once.
You destroy the last. You need to just PS it.
Yeah, yeah. And I think maybe that's a good
rule. So the undead can't really, you
know, just try to avoid battle totally and move away.
I would. Yeah, so basically the the
undead shots hits, so and they route the the empire units,
although the characters still remain.
So that's the only ones that are not fleeing on that side, sort
of on the other flank of the settlement, the undead Chariots.
And there's few other units, though they sort of prepare for
the for the to face the reinforcements I guess.
Yeah, they rearrange. I think the reinforcement should
arrive from a random place. Yeah, it's a little bit met
again that they know, OK, they're going to come here.
Let's place ourselves and. So yeah, I can see that that's
that would add a difficulty that that can't prepare for them.
Yeah, so the magic is pretty low role of three.
So there's not too much magic going on this turn either.
But there is one John's macabre on the crossbows again.
They really like to do stuff with them.
And yeah, as we said, it looks good for the for the undead at
this point. But yeah, it's not quite over
yet. No.
Absolutely not. OK, but let's move on to Empire
Turn 3. And that's when the Meadenheim
reinforcements arrives on the sort of right flank, Emperor's
right plank. And on paper it's a pretty
impressive force Steam tank that managed to actually get there.
The War Wagon, a fairly big unit of White Wolves and the hull
barriers, not Pistolius and great swords, not very
impressive, but you know, they look good.
And some artists. I think that's it.
Summarizing, quite solved and the the white poles as an
electric card the better standard and without loading
them. Yeah.
And of course also they are able to deploy and move right.
So they are able to charge the first turn.
So that's and I think it would have been a little bit unfair
because the under the could obvious, you know, arrange
themselves and then be able to charge them before they were
able to move. That would have been a bit
harsh. But as we will see, the charge
just will not be quite as impressive as one might have
hoped. I think, I actually think the
initial plan was good. I think the idea of what he's
trying to do is good. It's Fierce Cup as him and yeah.
Co execution. Yeah.
So what happens basically? Leaving the wizard now this big
unit is an in fact. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think that's. My mistake.
I think so too, that it's really not all or nothing short of what
they do with the. So what happens is, like you
said, the unit of White Wolves contains both the general, the
BSB and the Yeah, so in. Theory.
If he's got decent close combat spells, I understand why he's in
there. Yeah, but.
There's no Yeah, all your eggs in one basket is just.
But yeah, I can also understand, like we said, that Dieter is
actually naked. He's quite an easy target, but I
think the item is perhaps not best suited for what he does
because he has the sort of heroes which is great against
enemies with a toughness 5 or more he.
Said the toughness 4. But in my mind he has it this 5.
Yeah, I I agree. I thought he was as well an an
under general. So that's terrible.
But it's for killing the manticore.
That's why that swords, yeah. But he doesn't attack the
manticore, he tries. No, he doesn't fall.
Theater. So yeah, with hindsight, because
these sort of heroes against it is just the basic sword.
Well, it's magic, but he doesn't have any protection anyway, so
doesn't do anything. Actually, no.
So that's a bit of a waste. And you are pretty better off in
close comment. Probably better off killing the
manticore first. Yeah.
And OK, it's a 5050 chance that he will wound it, but it will do
1D3 wounds per hit. So wound.
So it's it would have had a decent chance to do well.
But of course, he he actually seemed to have rolled pretty
poorly, so maybe he wouldn't have done anything anyway.
But yeah, So what happens basically is that the big unit
with all the good stuff, tax Deeter and nothing pretty much I
think. Yeah, I think wounds the
manticore maybe. That's about.
It it doesn't really do. Yeah, all those points.
All those points. Probably more points than
Dieter's worth, actually. Yeah, so 500 something plus I
would guess and like we said, he's sort of glass cannon, so he
doesn't have much protection, but if he's able to attack, he's
very competent. And yeah, So what happens is
they cause maybe 1 wound on the manticore and I think both the
general and the BSB are I don't. See it with.
Manticore, But the key, the general and the stand out, the
better stand off. Yeah, OK.
Oh. Good Lord, I'll just work it
out. That is, that is 309 hundred
points worth 900 points. Is that one unit with all those
things in there? Yeah.
That's yeah, that that's a huge amount of points to lose in one
guy. Yeah, not good.
I think they get it wrong but in the in that book they said
Amethyst is a champion without not the Lord.
The points are clearly followed. I've got always Lord listed, so
it might be different printings. Correct that maybe, but yeah, it
might be a top. French Prince.
OK, yeah, no in English when it's Amethyst wasn't Lord Yeah
with. The I'm looking at the scenario
right, not the report. Yeah, yeah, somewhere, yeah,
yeah. So, so in the English print of
the I said this book is like it's it's definitely first
printing. I've got it like a couple of
days after the that it was released.
So Amethyst wasn't Lord. Yeah.
So they do say we're lording that.
So yeah, it's probably just a typo from the translation.
Maybe. Yeah, Yeah.
So that was a total disaster and you know, could imagine the
defenders reaction seeing the impressive unit charging and
then they. Just died.
There might have been some expletives that were thrown on
there I think. Oops.
And although the rest of the reinforcement, you know, they
don't, it's not as disastrous, it's so not very impressive
either. They don't manage to well.
They kill a unit of horsemen I think.
They they, they kill a very useful tactically unit of
horsemen that isn't used in the best way that that's probably
the the, the one you know on the undead side that probably isn't
used to best effect, I think. But yeah, a minor success in
otherwise pretty disasters, and I think the the key Slav wing
dances failed the legit test, so they don't charge.
That's right. Like like the great source of
Midland or behind engine and that's for the mid.
That's that's the that's the issue is is that failure.
Rest of it charges, doesn't damage great wipes out the the
horsemen. Like we said, steam tank moves
forward, blocks things up great, but the great source not
charging the chariot. Yeah.
And I think. Key that unlocks the failure for
that for that contingent. Yeah, and something like a
chariot. I think it's one of the few
things that are a unit of great source on their own have a
decent chance to actually something useful.
Yeah. So all overall very
disappointing for the Empire. And of course it it sort of sees
their defeat at this point. I think we don't have to.
Rubber Lance, sugar coat. Yeah, for the for the for the
whole contingent, it's called rubber Lance and drug charges
are looked impressive and then yeah.
Yeah. So that's not good.
So yeah, like we said, it's sort of the writings on the wall.
And on the next Undead turn they are able to counter chance the
remaining reinforcements. And yeah, most of the Empire
force fleece at that point, so of the reinforcement.
So yeah, disaster upon disaster. Pretty much it's if you check
the two maps kind of on the undead term 4 you've got lots of
fleeing and not to give anything away, Empire turn format, lots
of skulls. The Kislev wing dancers actually
are able to handle the attack by the skeleton horse.
Takes them a couple of turns though, doesn't it?
It's not like a complete charging one out, and that's
key. So I think only was it only one
or maybe two of them died. So yeah, they were a little bit
lucky there I guess. But like you said, the the aim
of the undead on that front was to hold them up and they are
doing that very well and actually both decimating the
wing ulcers a bit and getting rid of the all sources.
So yeah, job well done. Yeah, for a really small, you
know, a unit of 6, including the white cavalry, it's a really
small force to send and they do a really good job.
Yeah, so the, I mean the like we said, the turn 4 of the Empire
force, they they still have a bit of action going on in the
the settlement actually, because Deeta moved away to handle the
reinforcements. So maybe that took the pressure
off them a little bit. So they had to do a bit of a
comeback in the in the settlement.
They had to the the characters gang up on which ones?
Zombies. Yeah, and also they are able to
defeat a unit of ghouls. Yes, send the ghouls packing.
So the ghouls charge it. Ghouls are one of those things
that should be a lot more powerful than they are.
They've got, you know, they've got 2 attacks, they've got
standard human profile 2 attacks and they've got poison attacks
as well. But just they've, they're just
not a great unit from that. Because they they suffer
skirmish, no. Not in this version, no.
Skirmish came in in 6th. You know this their ranked up
unit. And there was no there was no
standard bearer model, champion model, musician model.
So people didn't tend to put command groups in them.
So while the the Empire force is able to sort of slightly improve
their position in the settlement, of course, they they
have basically no magic and D2 is still around doing his thing.
So yeah, I mean, it's it's more comfort to at least make the the
end result a bit a bit more even.
But they don't really have much of a chance at that point when
the the midnight reinforcement is pretty much defeated to a
man. The steam tank is around for a
while, and maybe The Archers, but I mean they're not going to
be able to do that much against the big enemy.
Yeah, I mean, in in reality, we look at it, it doesn't actually
do anything to the Midland contingent.
Obviously he kills the white white wolf.
What it means RFA flies over there and doesn't actually
really do anything. He kills an Archer with a even
better off pressing the advantage in the in the village.
Yeah, probably. And eventually the horse or the
wing Lance is able to defeat the the under the horse.
But I mean, they arrive too late to really do anything much.
They do short unit of air or one of the skull capitals.
So that's all they had time to do.
I think. So yeah, in the end the Empire
forces are actually able to mostly hold the settlement.
But still I mean on points they are defeated.
Yes, but not by much and I wonder why it's so tight.
How did the score with 20 points?
Because it says. Yeah, I guess.
I guess to get a few points, the special points for being in
control of the settlement, I guess.
Yeah, you get 5 being in control of the settlement they killed
out that they killed off the zombies.
The goal for fleeing at the end of the game they killed off by
huge cavalry. The the points are there I
guess. But yeah, it does feel wrong
that it's so tight. Yeah, and I mean, if the battle
would have lasted longer, it would not have gone better for
the Empire, most likely. Oh, it's if he goes on another
turn, I think the village is pretty much lost.
I mean, I mean, they don't have the Gauls anymore.
They don't have the zombies anymore carrying a dead.
You've got the crossbow then woo Hoo.
But the point is D to come fly in and start killing stuff.
Yeah. And also of course spread
terror, although the leadership for the Empire mostly held
fairly well. They of course failed some, but
it wasn't like a total route at any point.
So I don't think terror did that much.
OK, we're back again. And no, we will actually go back
in time just a few years. And I believe we're going back
to was it 2022 and Boyle and maybe some of you dear listeners
might have even been able to take part or watch this
wonderful event. But they will tell us more about
what what went on and about the crazy people recreating this
battle. So I'd always had this vision of
wanting to run doing Lord at Boyle and we had an opportunity
to run it on a very large table. And my own vision of it was we
ran it as it was and just use a very large table to have the two
battlefields, you know, the the main one on the kids, white one.
Yes, before do we need to explain what Boyle is?
I think the majority. Of Boyle, yeah, Boyle is so old
Hammer. Not necessarily the concert Old
Hammer, but the actual naming convention.
Old Hammer came from a group of bloggers, my brother was one of
them that got together and started whinging about 6th
edition and later Warhammer, and that group set up a gaming
event. After that term Old Hammer had
been coined they decided to have a gaming event in the UK and
it's grown and grown and grown. We not we because I wasn't
directly involved, but Garth, who is a very nice chap indeed.
He was one of those original gamers that set up this old
hammer group, as it were, that has grown to what it is now,
which is huge. He he had Marcus Ansell contact
him and say, do you want to do it at Foundry?
And it kind of just grew from there.
So now it's become what it is now, which is kind of, I want to
say the premier. I would say that, you know, the
premier old hammer event of the world, but it but it really was
bring out your lead. It was the IT was kind of a big
stepping stone in the movement becoming as big as it is now.
Old hammer, you know, it's spread across the globe and it's
it's a term that's coined, but the actual term old hammer was
created by that group of bloggers.
And, you know, I'm very proud of the fact that, you know, more my
brother was part of that. And whilst I'm not saying that
playing older games wasn't a thing, but the actual term old
hammer and the old hammer movement itself was yes.
I mean, they, they, they kick started and, and Boyle's
contributed to that massively. And that's a free ticket event.
You can go along, play loads of different games, loads of
different versions of Warhammer are there, you know, whether
it's fancy battle or or or space or, you know, loads of other
games aren't necessarily Games Workshop.
But it's that mindset of older games, you know, reviving those
older games and playing it with OK, yes, you can play with
modern miniatures if you want. But really the ethos is, you
know, older miniatures, painted miniatures, you know, taking the
effort to do it. Yeah.
And just having fun with with older games and just making sure
they don't die, you know, because they don't, you know,
Games Workshop can do whatever they want to They're go, you
know, kill it off and bring an age of Sigma.
Obviously they did that. They do whatever they want.
But our games still exist. They still, they have life.
Do they have current stuff being created?
OK, you get some fan stuff. Yeah, but generally speaking,
no, they're not. It's locked in, but that's
doesn't mean it's dead, that doesn't mean it's not the why
and that's what Boyle is. It's a celebration of that and
it's fantastic. It's an event I encourage
everyone to try and come to at least once.
And I absolutely intend to go this year.
I really hope I will be there too and see you, Dave and other
people. And also that's I think it's a
good chance if you want to, you know, see some of the and maybe
have a chat with some of the the big names of the industry.
There's a lot of people who were mostly baggage previously in the
Games Workshop from the current. But yeah, so there's also
usually good show of names on that event, so.
We'll come back to that in a minute because that's important.
So. So the Ansel's no longer own the
venue. They.
Register, yeah. Yeah, it's a case of them
because it's free. They don't charge us anything
for putting it on. Obviously you pay for food and
all that sort of thing there. You make money from selling
miniatures, foundry miniatures and selling food and things like
that. So there is a profit for them,
but it's not, it's profit from them for putting the event, for
hosting the event. You know, we do all the admin
and I get involved in some of that with with Garth, it's
mainly him doing that. But it's just one of the tables
go so quickly now because it's so popular.
It is absolutely huge and we could never expected it.
The first one we did was in Nottingham and it was there was
quite a few of us there but it wasn't what it is now.
When was it? When was the first one?
Oh God, The first one, it was over 10 years ago because my son
wasn't born yet at that point. So yeah, it was over 10 years
ago. It was in Nottingham, the
original Foundry site. And yeah, it was a few times.
It was probably about 20 tables, two places.
So about 40 people maybe. Yeah.
And now it's just ridiculous, the number of people, it's
absolutely insane. And there's a load because it's
Foundry, of course, it's, it's X from white dwarfs there.
It's definitely even if you only go to, even if you're only going
to look at the old stuff, you know, those miniatures into
display cabinets is worth going to foundry.
And if you come for boil, then obviously you get the benefit of
a boil as well. At the same time, yes, it's it's
amazing. I'm not a particularly social
person, you know, I've got reasons for that.
I'm not going to go into, I'm not great at, you know, mixing
things like that. So to go there and feel at home
amongst people, you know, I've made so many friends.
I've actually made friends from the Facebook group as well.
You know, you guys are an example of that.
But I've also made friends going to boil and I now do other
gaming events with them. Other things we go to not
necessarily big shows, but you know, we'll have like weekends
away together and game and stuff like that, you know, around
maybe at someone's house or, you know, local area.
So it's, it's, it's given me a huge group of friends that I
wouldn't have had if I hadn't started going to it.
And I was sceptical going to the first one.
I didn't, I wasn't part of the the very, very beginnings of the
Oldhammer movement. I joined early on, but I wasn't
part of it at the very early days.
And it was Boyle really that sold it to me when actually, no,
this is a thing. There is, there are other people
like me out there that want to play these games in the way that
I want to play them. It is not a tournament in any
way, shape or form meant to be competitive.
It's going, it's beer and pretzels and whatever, rolling
dice, having a chat, not saying about gaming.
It's, you know, guys getting together, having a chat, being
blokes playing their game. The games are almost, almost in,
you know, the the benefit, the the cool thing is getting
together with mates talking, you know, seeing these amazing
battles taking place, taking part in them.
That's what they're secondary. Yeah.
It's just a great event. So I encourage all of you if if
you love, you know, our hobby, you know the historical side of
our hobby. I don't mean historicals, I mean
as in the older games get along, even if it's just once come
along because it is just the most welcoming and inclusive
event I've ever known in my life.
And that's why I keep going back and I've not missed one.
I'm totally looking forward to joining this year.
I. Will definitely try to make that
happen and I but I believe it's, it's quite likely and maybe we
can meet up and make, you know, a small episode of some kind.
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.
Maybe do some interview stuff? Because you do have, as said, X
Games Workshop stuff. Come on, Rick, to a few of them,
you know, certainly we've had Gary Morley comes along.
Yeah, yeah. Job launched, it comes.
To most of them. Now, so a lot of it's with the
older stuff, it's kind of really, you've really got that
going on and and then they come along, it's like suddenly
they're treated. Like rock stars?
Yeah, we, because we we absolutely adore them and I love
them and and you know, Kev Adams has been quite.
Kev Adams does a sculpting thing most that most of them where he
gives money to charity, raises money for charity, sculpting
heads onto miniatures. So you can have your own Kev
Adams heads, but it's really difficult to get that happened
now because yeah, I can imagine. And also I think they they used
to make like a special. Miniature that they sell for the
event as well. Not sold, not sold.
It's a giveaway. Oh, giveaway for all the
particular. People fund it.
Within the group, it's not. Known who's funding it, That's
the secret. And different years, it's
different people. Funding it as well.
It's not. It's really the same.
People every year, but it's funded.
It's a free miniature, which is why if you go and you get the
miniature, do not sell it. I don't think you guys would.
This is a comment out to anyone that's listening.
Don't be a Dick. Don't sell it.
It's a free miniature meant in the spirit of old Hammer.
Don't then give it away. Give it away.
Yeah, give it away. Sell it for a few pence.
Don't. Go on eBay and because we've
caught that a few times, people putting them on eBay as a rare
miniature and making lots. Of money out of it, and that is.
Banging out of order, Yeah, yeah, don't do that.
You're a Dick if you do that right Anyway, that out the way.
So yeah. So I think if if you are, I mean
if you are listening to this, I think.
You are into it. So I think this is will
definitely be something for anyone listening.
So do whatever you can to join up and if you're intend to get
back to us and you know, we can perhaps meet up our own little
tiny sub community absolutely 100% So yeah.
So at the. Event they have lots and lots of
different tables. You can book them and play
games. We also have a couple of 12 foot
tables OK that we put on exhibition kind of games.
So these are this is one of these tables that we got for for
doom order. My thought I said my thought
process was just being able to put the two battlefields on the
same table. But my brother is a big one for
huge games. We've got a big collection
between us and he likes using as much of it as we can whenever we
can. So OK, I will enter.
OK, we'll do a bigger version of the game.
We decided to double the points for each side.
So I, I had the devious job of working out the army list for
both of them. He's not really into the admin.
That's why he's happy to say, oh, let's double the size of it
because he's been work for it and it was work.
It was work because I was trying to that, that horrible word
balance. I was trying to balance things
out. And maybe that was my mistake,
but I was trying to make it not to, to still keep the essence of
the the scenario as much as possible.
And in hindsight, probably what I should have done is increase
the size of the units as opposed to making more units.
But there we go. That's, you know, I did what I
did. And one of the things that Chris
was, was ADVENT. He wanted to maintain.
And again, it's case, I don't want to argue with you, so I'll
just do it is the and it is part of the scenario that that that
Dieter is the guy controlling the whole thing.
There is no one else. He it is his willpower keeping
this army going, casting the spells.
So the thinking was we won't have a second necromancer, but
also we won't have additional Wizards for the empire side
either. We'll keep that level.
All right. And then I kind of got thinking,
well, I'd kind of like to put an ice mage in for the chisel
lights because that'd be kind of cool because it's not something
I'd never used ice magic before. So it's like, yeah, that'd be
cool. And I'd painted one up the amber
wizard with a polar bear instead of a normal bear.
It was really good. I like it.
And so we thought, well then if they're gonna have a wizard,
really need a wizard on the undead side in that part of the
game. So we came up with the idea that
it wouldn't be a wizard as such, but we gave the crown sorcery to
a white Lord leading that contingent that kind of catch
it. There wasn't another
necromancer, but there was some wizardly power in that
contingent. So mistakes we made we the
battlefield. The battlefield was I was
playing a separate game and let Chris set the battlefield up and
he did a wonderful job there. If you look at there are some
photos in the 4th edition group photos and he did this.
Amazing thing with a. With a bed sheet and Maid
Mountain the mouse inside it, it looks stunning, Yeah.
And I guess in. Essence.
Very simple, but I mean, Jesus, it looks amazing.
There's some stuff underneath it.
Sheep dumped. On top to make like peaks and
stuff like that by just dumping it you can actually get holds of
the sheep making those. Spray some white paint over it.
Boom. Kind of did a did like a
Xenothol prime Yeah it looks amazing actually looks stunning
and all the. Miniatures Stunning, but we've
made some. Mistakes.
So the Keys of Light deployment zone is where most of the undead
ended up getting plunked. And that's it's a small channel
that we're going towards the village which made a killing
ground. So on the on the right flank,
yeah. And they shouldn't have even.
Been deployed there. That's not an area that.
Undead can deploy, but we had so many models that we kind of had
to do a little bit of that. Yeah.
And kind of I plot the models down thinking that the undead
players would deploy them. They thought I had deployed them
where they didn't change the deployment.
And we and we we. Had to get on with the.
Game, we had to play it, so that's the one thing we were
getting this into one day and it was a big game with lots of
players and that slows things down.
Yeah. How many?
What's on each side? How many players we must?
Have had at least at least three or four per side.
So was it? Yeah.
Did the did they play the entire?
Game or did people come and go? Well, my idea was that people
would leave contingents, but it didn't necessarily.
Work out and, you know, people will find what they want to do.
Yeah. So I I did it in the sense of I
worked out contingents with people to command, but there was
a bit of a blurring of lines in some cases and some people
didn't turn up that said they were going to turn up.
So we had to divvy it's out a bit more, but yeah, there was
about 3 or 4 players per size and some of them had very
different views on what to do. So that slows things down as
well. But that's that's on the slide.
You know, that happens in any game.
So that was the main issue. And then the the the coslite
unit lost it's. So I changed the skeleton
horsemen into white horsemen because that was a way of.
Using up points. So I ended up a point where I
was trying to think how can use up all these points.
I've only got limited painting time left.
So things like converting scales and horsemen into whites that
for that that use up some points and they kind of come on a crown
of sorcery. Sorry, not going to come on.
Very expensive so that but what I forgot.
Or rather. Didn't read the spell correctly
the ice mage ended up with bridge of ice and basically and
tactically brilliant absolutely brilliant master class but I
hadn't counted on it in my thinking of you know because
when when you GM something like this you kind of have it in your
head so that should do that kind of the chess pieces kind of you
can never because you're not playing the games you can't make
things happen. But you think, well, logically
that yeah, OK, that, OK, that one, that sort of thing.
So that's what I done. But because I hadn't read the
spell, I didn't realize that he could move the undead.
I thought he could use his move his units.
He didn't. He moved the whites forward and
both and we had their teams to wing Lasso charged and just
slaughtered the unit. So he lost advantage and he was
basically that was the kids like part over.
There was a bit of chasing. Now I put some Chariots and
there's a bit of chasing the Chariots.
But generally speaking, that was it.
It was like it was over on like the first turn.
Yeah. So it's maybe it was the second,
I can't remember. But it was, you know.
Not like the original Battle that dragon, no.
Exactly. And then on the main
battlefield. Yeah, because most of the undead
army were getting each other's way.
Having only one wizard meant Deta couldn't couldn't, he
couldn't move enough units to keep the whole thing moving, so
it just ended up getting each other's way.
Installing shutdown was cannon and help losses were blasting
them apart. We did get into the village, but
the the game kind of ended because Dita took too many
basically just crossed by shots, handgun of shots.
Yeah. So we had the same level of no
potential in that game. Yeah, it was just volume of
shots, you know. If you shoot if, if you only hit
with 50% of them, yeah. And then 50% of those go on the
meant to call, 50% go on to Dita.
You know you're going to be knocking off a turn a wound or
two per turn on D because if they do hit him, they actually
have a 50% of. Making a wound on him so because
he doesn't have any armor, even if you only pick one wound off D
to per turn. Well, the sheer volume of shots
you'll put into and of course he had more things to shoot because
there were more units. Yeah, yeah.
He just he, you know, he he. Died in the end.
Before, yeah. And I guess he's a large target
as well, so it's not that difficult.
To hit SO. But yeah, but the actual
spectacle was amazing. It was, you know, forget that.
Who cares about that, right? Yeah, Yeah.
I think like you said, there's no like.
Tournament element to boil and. Of course, the people.
Going into it, I don't think they have any competitive sense
at all of that. If you're competitive, you're on
the on the wrong about. Exactly the only competitive
streak there was. Was always there when your boy
is being my brother because he's my brother and there is, you
know, competitive streak between us.
So there will be a little bit of harsh words I mentioned.
Yeah, of course, when you're in the matter you want to win.
So no. One else.
Well, actually I was trying to be neutral.
I thought he was as well, but he wasn't.
He was being Empire centric, so it kind of caused some, you
know. Anyway, we won't go into that,
but this fetch was amazing. And the most amazing thing of
all is talking about the legends of of gays.
Jarvis Johnson was there and he came over and watched us play.
He wrote the scenario. He wrote the undead book.
The Guy, what was his reaction to it?
He was just. He was just like he was trying
to remember the scenario for a little.
While oh did I write that one that sort of thing, but just
having him there and just asked me some questions and talking to
him about it and the fact he was watching he.
Was smiling. Watching us play it and that I
said that that day was just the best day in the world because of
that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's letting the games, Rachel. Wrote the scenario.
We're playing and he's watching us and.
Smiling at what we're doing. And I'm just, oh God, it was
just the most amazing experience.
And that's one reason why I love Boyle, because it's just a real
community event, the most community event you could ever
get. Because I said there's no cost
to go. Obviously if you're going to
stay over, you're going to, you know, you've got a hotel and
yeah, you're going to get yourself there as well.
Self is free. And I think there is.
A fair number of non. British people showing up as
well. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Loads of people, they come from farmland.
We we get quite. A few.
Usus old hammers coming along, you know.
You probably know some of them from Facebook and it, it just,
it's just grown and grown and grown and, you know, probably
the, the, the core that started it.
We don't necessarily always run the big games.
It's people who have joined since that running the big games
on, on the tables. You know, it's, you know,
there's a little bit of frustration maybe sometimes that
we can't get tables because it's a booking system and there's
only so many tables we can get and we think, oh, this we should
get to. But, you know, at the end of the
day, sometimes there's games going on and there's people you
can chat to. And, you know, said I'm not my
social person in the world, but I can still get on with it
there. You know, I feel, I feel
comfortable and I don't feel, you know, out of place.
It's it's just, yeah, everyone is there for the same reason.
They have sort of the same love for these.
Old systems and you know, yeah, I mean, there was, there was a
slight. Issue a couple of years ago that
there is a painting competition there and it was getting a
little bit too. We don't, we don't want to be
gatekeepers. No.
But some of the entries were losing.
The point of what it was, they were Sara Lee, old Hammer.
They were just people turned up to win a painting competition.
Yeah, not people coming for the event.
If that makes sense. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, the painting got to you
is kind of it's there as. Well, they came.
Forward. And there's nothing wrong with
that as such, but it kind of loses some of the essence of
what it is. It's it's not a, you know, even
in painting it should be a competitive thing.
It's just lost. Yeah, yeah.
It's not necessarily, you know. The most accomplished technique
perhaps you need the right model and so I mean there is some
absolute stunning painters that take part.
In the right outlet, of course, he is one of the best painters
I've ever, you know, stuff I've ever seen in my life.
You know, he he'll downplay his abilities, but it is absolutely
stunning, you know, you know, surpassing heavy metal
standards, you know, absolutely amazing.
But it's just it again, it should not be viewed as being a
it's it's really competitive. I was like, no, no, just come
along, have some fun. And if you win a Peyton
competition, that's great, but it's not, you know, it's not
about going to an event when you make and then leaving.
It's not about that. So, but aside from that, yeah,
community event, come along, please do enjoy it.
There is always, if you're staying in the area, there's
always a good number of us that go to the pub afterwards as
well. Continue the good times.
And that's part that's that's the whole thing.
It is the community. It is us coming together and
being like minded people about playing with silly toy soldiers
and just having a laugh with each other.
And it's that's what it's all about.
And the, the, the going to the pub or the evening to an extent,
in some cases even becomes the main event rather than the
actual game sometimes because it's just, you know, especially
considering this has run over the COVID period as well, which
was more even more isolation. So if you're feeling, if you're
a gamer, you feel isolated from the world and that come along,
join in, be part of something that is just and showing the
love to all of us. And and, you know, saying we're
all cool, we're all great, let's let's have fun together.
So how long is it over? Three days or two days?
So, yeah, so. It starts on the Friday and
that's quite a. Quiet day normally there's it's
getting busier at the Friday. The Saturday is now just insane.
You, you almost can't move for people.
You know it's it is. That busy, especially in like
the side, the side. So, so there's a main tent which
adds the flavour as well. It's kind of like you're, you're
on a battlefield, you know, you're generally in the tent.
It's kind of has that thing. So it's a big Marquis sort of
thing that the big tables are in.
And then there's side rooms that have some and the shop as well
that have tables in. And on the Saturday, yeah, it's
really hard to move in any of those really.
There's an open courtyard area that's easy to move around in.
But if it's raining, that's a bit horrible.
Or if it's really sunny, but it's August, if it's really hot,
that'd be horrible as well. You end up sunburn.
I played one year next reminder out there and got sunburned as
anything. It happens and sadly, you know,
Brian's no longer with us. Brian Ansell, for those of you
who know your games virtual history, you'll know that name
and the first few boils. He was absolutely amazing, he
really was. He was so keen and eager to chat
to people about the history and what it what, where it came from
Games Workshop as a, as a thing, because really he, if it wasn't
for him, there would be no Games Workshop.
He didn't start it. He made it become what it
became. You know, he deserves full
credit for that. And anyone that has a bad word
to say about him should bury their head and, you know, just
forget it. He if it wasn't for him, you
wouldn't have the Games Workshop you have today.
And one of my favorite anecdotes from that time was he brought
out the original metal cast of the Mighty Fortress.
Yeah. What?
The 4th edition, not the 5th edition one.
The the original 1. The the actual metal cast of it,
which must was, was, you know, in essence, it's not worth
anything but sheer weight of metal.
It's worth something and and sentimentality something you
know, and it should be given respect and love.
And he wanted to use it in a siege game we were playing.
But it's not painted. It's just pure metal.
It's not painted. So we didn't use it even though
we didn't use it. But then someone, I'm not going
to say who it was to my brother. I'm not going to say who it was.
It was raining as hell that day and he used it to weigh down the
tent flaps. Oh, so it's like, oh, oh, that's
a lack of respect a little. Bit.
But yeah, got a bit of structural use for me.
Yeah, I mean it. Didn't damage it anyway.
It's greatly huge lump of lead, yeah.
It's not going to take care of homes.
Use the wall sections to. Weigh down the tent flap
flapping back in the. Wind good one.
So how does it usually work? Is it?
Easy to get the room in the area if you're staying over.
Oh, that can be difficult because the rooms do go quickly.
There are always rooms and if you have to stay further out,
you have to stay further out. I'm afraid.
That's that's awesome. Yeah.
So if you're now you're thinking, oh, have I booked a
room yet? Anybody needs to think about
that. Yeah, it can be difficult,
especially in Europe. But you know what, there's
plenty of Airbnb places as well in Europe.
So you can go Airbnb if need be. You will find something.
It might. You have to pay a little bit
more. It's like you'll find something.
I tend to book my hotel kind of the weekend of boil the previous
year because I go to the same hotel every year.
Is your habit, you know? And on the come, we'll come from
going to. I have changed the hotel that I
went to. First of all, you might be still
be able to get into that hotel we used to use.
There's a travelling as well. So there's a few things there,
you know, But yeah. Most people do stay in the air
and come out to the. Pub and said afterwards and just
have a nice laugh with you, you know, and.
Chat to your. Mates and be geeky and sometimes
we talk about games or things, sometimes about something
totally different. It's just a case of meeting up
with mates, meeting up with guys and and and girls.
It tends to be a male thing. I'll be honest with you, it does
tend to be a male thing, as we know a hobby is, but that's not
exclusively male, though there are you know, there are some
women that do come as well and some people bring their partners
as well. Whether they enjoy the whole day
event, I don't know, but we have some kids sometimes as well.
You know, mostly they're respectful of the models and but
you do get the odd occasional picking up and go.
What's this? I'm afraid I had one year when
I. Ran the.
What's it called? The the dwarf scenario.
Battle rate of Eastgate One knocked my trolls onto the
floor. Onto a concrete floor.
They survived. They weren't even shipped.
Well, yeah, strong tone does. I didn't paint.
A strong tone creates a bit of a it's almost like a varnish.
Yeah, so. So they survived quite well.
But yeah, it does happen. You've you've.
Kind because it's a big event, there'll be kids there.
You kind of accept that might happen and just take it because
I love the fact that you're that interested in what I've painted.
You want to look at it. You've got to kind of have that
attitude. But if people did stop being
snobbish with with someone's miniatures, I think the whole
community or anyone that's around would kind of back up
that, you know, stop doing that, that sort of thing.
They're they're supporting. Ask if you want to touch
anyone's thoughts. Exactly.
Right. So yeah, I think anyone
listening should really, you know, be teased at this.
And yeah, if you are able to join up this year or any year,
it's absolutely amazing, I'm sure.
So yeah, hope to see you there indeed.
Yeah, and hopefully. The my excited voices conveyed
how much it means to me. Yeah, I think that definitely
came across that this is an. Amazing event and I mean, if you
or into and you are because if you are listening, you are
definitely into these games, whether you call it old hammer,
hero Hammer or whatever hammer. I think they all sort of aim at
the same experience and you know, attract mostly the same
crowd. I mean, there's no exact
definition of what what is old hammer, What's middle hammer.
I think that's not really an important distinction in any
way. Yeah, it started off being very
much third. Edition earlier and I'm
partially responsible for pushing like 4th into it.
And to be honest with you, people turn up and they play 8th
sometimes and I think also in like in different areas.
The idea of what is old Warhammer is different because
in England, of course, that's where you like.
In Sweden, I don't think more than a handful of people played
Warhammer before 4th edition. It was really, really niche.
It wasn't in 4th edition. But of course someone getting
into The Hobbit, like Eighth, they think 4th edition is
ancient. That's the oldest of Oldhammer.
So it is really it is ancient, but you.
Know is it Oldhammer don't know is it old warhammer yes it is
100% and that's you know but also we're a tolerant group
generally we don't tend to be grognards about it and people
will play 8th edition if I don't want to play 8th edition, I just
won't play 8th edition I'll come and look at Britney models
though and I'll ask what's going on yeah yeah and I mean an 8th
edition game can look amazing you.
Have these huge units that looks great exactly exactly and things
in the middle. To be honest with you, really
big games 6th edition isn't a bad addition to play really big
games. So almost a big tape.
We've done 6th edition before, you know.
So one year we played Warhammer Ahoy.
So we played sea battles that are out of the At the Generals
Compendium from six. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I have
that one, yeah. Maybe if you're into HL Sigma,
maybe they don't bring that. I think maybe they're that's not
Yeah, pushing it a little bit. Nearly played, I've got to be
honest. But do you know what maybe?
I'm, I'm, I am expecting, I don't.
I think we might have seen the first ones this year.
Actually, I can't remember. I'm expecting to see more hammer
the old world there eventually. If it has, if it wasn't this
year, probably sorry, last year just gone.
It'll be this year coming up quickly.
And I mean the regardless if you want.
To play the old world, of course, it has revived the the
old beauty of it. I think you're making people
interested in the old models and so on.
And I mean, I've been pleasantly surprised by the made to order
stuff. They.
Oh, brilliant. Yeah, nice to be fantastic.
I I would. Answer I think old hammer has
sparked that but then that's in turn sparked more old hammer
because you said it's was the community that wanted it.
We found old Hammer and worked with that and then that's
obviously inspired Games Workshop to go.
There's a market there. There's people with disposable
income there. It's not kids.
It's all actual money to spend. So let's do this made to order
thing and that's in turn channel people wouldn't to old hammer as
well. So it's it's like a yeah, like
like a Dynamo keeping itself going.
Yeah. And I mean the the made to
orders yeah. I mean it's not cheap, but.
In the outrageously expensive right there, I think it's it
beats e-mail prices. It beats e-mail prices
significantly. Yeah, and anything that can
bring those down and stop people being idiots about, you know,
how much they charge for something, then then that's
that's got to be a good thing. I'm looking forward to seeing
many more major and I'd like to see almost kind of be a cycle
that maybe every sort of let's say August is like they'd
release some Empire stuff every you know, yeah, yeah, they would
have been amazing high off stuff and maybe maybe it's the.
Same thing as the previous. Year but it gives you a window
to get those things yeah because you're always here when you sort
of OK up in that these. Made to order.
Oh, we're still made to order. I missed that.
So people obviously sometimes miss these chances.
So if you had just just rounding off 111 Dream made to order,
what would it be? Oh my dream mate to order.
Yes, Goodwin's. Original scathing range.
I mean, I've already got them, but I still buy more of them and
you need a lot. It's my ideal.
It's my. Absolute ideal.
Love all of them. What about yourself?
What would yours be? Well, yeah, I mean, I, I am an
Empire guy. So, but I basically have
everything, but I would have liked a few more steam tanks.
So I think just one single model.
I need 8 steam tanks, so a few more steam tanks.
That's something to say that that's about I need a.
Few more steam tanks, yeah, yeah, that that implies you've
got a load anyway, but a. Few more would be Yeah, I.
Agree with you. I agree and also another one
would have been cool if they released.
Like a set of the old monsters, The 3rd edition.
Yeah, monsters. That would have been cool.
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because I mean, pretty much all
armies could use that. So it would have been useful.
For everyone who's into the era on the Empire front, and they've
done quite a lot, but it would be nice to see them do.
The crossbow men yeah, the swordsman great swords.
He had a shite, but great swords, lovely models though.
And and do you know what would be really cool?
The plug in weapon soldiers. Yeah, I was thinking about that
when you when you mentioned these.
Yeah, because they are quite versatile.
To. To use as well as the Halbert
Swordman crossbow man and yeah, and just, they're just really
nice models. And do you know what?
They do they funnily enough, because they were virtually the
same sculpt, but they just evoke that hero quest soldier feel
that that was that kind of was it was kind of in that Perry
range, not all the models, but some that had that feel like
some of The Archers looked a bit like that and the battle masks
and stuff had that feel as well. That feel for trooper.
That is just like, oh, that's that's peak pop top empire for
me. So if they did those high range,
Oh my God, I'll be happy. And you could, you could sort of
make almost an entire army with. As it's always country, Yeah,
Jeff Solomon Sims recently did his own.
Version of those, he creates something very similar and
released them for a very limited amount of time.
They're really close to the hero quest aesthetic because he loves
hero quests and yeah, with those he also did a handgun as well.
So you really could make obviously not Knights, but the
fun troops, you could do an entire army of them.
I'll tell you what I say you could do is the Empire artillery
crew. Yeah.
Drews, all of them. They could do like a set of all
of them. Yeah.
You could mix and match them quite easy.
They they fit, you know, they did in the back reports, you
know? Yeah.
Yeah, I do that as well. I I never keep track of who's
actually. Supposed to be in what?
Yeah, War machines. So yeah, yeah, maybe not the
dude standing on the cannonballs with the mortar.
Yeah, yeah. That's a.
Bit of a giveaway and one holding a cannonball in his
hands. That's probably not the hell
Blaster so, but yeah, something like that, that would be really
cool if they did that as well. So I think there's a lot,
there's still a lot they could do with the race.
And then, you know, do they then go back even further than kind
of how far they've gone so far? Yeah.
Because I mean, I guess
technically they have really some. 3rd edition models, but
they're sort of in the 4th edition era mostly.
But absolutely, why not? You know, imagine they did all
the different regiments of renown.
Not just Prince Luther's. If they did bugmans.
If they did bugmans through the ages you could get like the
originals all. Those ones, there is so much
there. Is so much possibility they
could do with this made to order, but if they truly
explored it, oh man, that it would it would be awesome.
Yeah, I guess maybe you know there is one limiting factor.
Do they have all the original bolts or can they recreate them?
You you can. All you need is an is is a
sculpt. And you can try and they should
have all of those. They could even print them.
Let's be told. Yeah, that's true.
You know, like, I don't think they ever.
Will, because that's almost opening the door.
And saying, oh, printing's fine. I don't think games were ever
going to say that because it's a low, you know, there's not a lot
of revenue on a printing thing. Yeah, no, at the same time, I
mean, they had to adapt to what? Is out there because printing is
not going to go away. Obviously it's no, it makes more
sense than molding stuff, but um.
Yeah, I just think there's so much possibility.
Yeah, I know. Yeah.
OK, let's call it there then. Yeah.
Been wonderful to chat with you and Lee.
Of course here to leave a little bit early, but we mostly talked
about not the action report. So at the end, great talking to
you as always Dave and I hope those who listened to enjoy it.
So see you at Boyle. I hope all of you indeed see you
buddy chat soon. Bye, bye, bye.